In the book, "Soldat: Reflections of a German Soldier, 1936-1949" by Siegfried Knappe, he sympathizes with the Romanians. He was a German Artillery Officer at the battle & said the Romanians fought bravely despite having no good anti-tank weapons.
even if they had better guns it would not matter, because they had not enough men to defend those fronts, the soviet tanks could penetrated on what ever segment they could, only if they had a mobile competent formation of tanks in their backs they could defended better. also the Romanians didn't lost the bridgeheads as is implied here, they inherited the situation from the German and Italian they replaced.
Yeah, this isn't the first time that I've heard how thin the Romanian lines were spread out. Seems like they fought back with vigor and can hold their heads high.
I feel bad for the Romanian conscripts who were dragooned into fighting in Stalingrad. They had no idea of the hellstorm that would be unleashed on them. This is an excellent documentary!
TIK, thank you for showing both the faults and courage of both sides, many of the troops on the ground were just people trying their best regardless of how pop culture demonizes or aggrandizes them today. You do the good work of telling the truth as best you see it instead of making value judgements that are based on the overall evils of one side (although sometimes those judgements are fair, but you don't leave them out when they are). I don't always agree with your videos but your skills as a history communicator are outstanding and your work is certainly worth supporting, thank you for your hard work and effort. Godspeed, and don't let people pressure you into overworking yourself to the bone, it would be a major loss to the history community on TH-cam if you burned out.
Simple question: I can understand why the Russians were on the Volga but why were the Germans, Italians, Rumanians, and Hungarians there? Just trying to understand your literal both siderism. No Axis troops, no battle, no destroyed Stalingrad, no dead civilians, no war crimes. After you answer that I await your astute observation about the courage of Russian soldiers killing civilians in Ukraine as I type as they just trying to their best as the civilized world demonizes them..
The whole campaign was misguided, even without hindsight they knew they could not move the captured oil to be refined back in germany. In order to be at least a semi successful case blue needed more conservative/realistic goals such as capturing Stalingrad first and only then moving south as far as Maikop at most, this would allow them to pull 17th army instead of the romenians from the cauccusus ( tik mention this idea) and completely removing the Italians from the Don, and replacing them with 11th army for example. This would allowe them to beat off most of op Uranus and leave the door for the caucusus open for a 1943 campain.
In Romania, this is called "The Battle of the Don Bend" and I've personally met three veterans from it. Despite talking to them at different times (2009, 2011 and 2014) and in different places, their stories match up surprisingly well (EDIT: I should also add they were on different parts of the front as well, since the two that were taken POW were in the south of Stalingrad) - they say they were so thin on the ground they couldn't even have continuous trenches and instead had individual rifle pits for a few men set ten to twenty meters apart. They had *some* wire entanglements and mines, but not enough to cover all the frontage and they were woefully under supplied with ammunition. They also had no actual artillery, just a couple of 81mm mortars. When the Soviets attacked they were so confident they didn't even fire at first, they just advanced in a human wave with shouts of "Hurrrah!" and red banners waving and were easily cut down by machine-gun and rifle fire and had to retreat in disarray. On the next attack the Soviets brought in the tanks but still they couldn't get through because the tanks couldn't see their targets so their fire was largely ineffective, so in the end they just drove the tanks forwards while firing their bow machine-guns for supression, over and between the Romanian rifle pits and just kept going. A few tanks were disabled with hand held AT charges (one of the veterans says he saw two tanks being disabled this way) but the vast majority made it into the rear of the Romanian line and drove off, while it's escorting infantry was stopped by the Romanian fire and had to retreat yet again. In fact one of the veterans specifically said that from his platoon they had no casualties at all except for two wounded and they kept fighting until late in the evening when they ran out of ammunition and were forced to surrender, since by this time they knew there was nowhere to retreat to with the Soviet tanks behind them. It's interesting to note there is also an 1959 film called "Hunde, wollt ihr ewig leben" ("Dogs, do you want to live forever" - and it's available on TH-cam) based on a book by Fritz Wöss, who was a participant in the battle and, more importantly, a liaison to the Romanian army and his account and it's on screen depiction also seems to largely fit this account rather than the viewpoint of "the Romanians just ran" peddled by some sources, including the two tanks disabled with AT charges (although in the film it's the German main protagonist and a Romanian officer who manage the feat). Of the three veterans, one managed to find his way into the city of Stalingrad from where he was later evacuated by air after being wounded while the other two were taken prisoners and only returned to Romania in 1948 and 1950 respectively. Both had been married before bing drafted and both had been given up as dead, so by the time they came back their wives had moved on and were married to other men, so both then divorced and later remarried themselves. One of the two has a rather more involved story, since he was a skilled machinist so instead of a regular POW camp he was sent into a factory somewhere in Siberia and he kept a detailed journal of his period in captivity, including his daily meals as well as his many amorous adventures, since he was one the very few young men left in the locality as all were at the front so he had plenty of attention from young Russian women... In fact, when he was released, he genuinely though about settling in the USSR with one of them instead of returning, but in the end he decided not to.
Maybe if they had enough ammunition they would have managed to hold the line against the soviet infantry with this fighting spirit. And only with tanks Operation Uranus maybe would have failed. But i dont understand how they could be low on ammo, sure they were badly supplied but they were months on a frontline without any fights.
@@Suchtel10 I must point out the two veterans who became POWs and said they were low on ammunition belonged to 1st Infantry Division, part of the 4th Romanian Army located to the south of Stalingrad - that whole area was woefully under supplied because the equipment and ammunition were going primarily to the 3rd Army to the north, because HQ considered the south a secondary front where the threat of a Soviet attack was low. This is also why they had such large frontages and no AT weaponry to speak of.
I feel they are just making up excuses. They were ineffective soliders that's why they were stationed on the flanks. To suggest they were overran because they didn't have artillery is laughable
Below some quotes about Romanian bravery at Stalingrad. And in WW2 in general. "After World War II I asked my friend General Hans Speidel, who had commanded various mixed Axis contingents and became Field Marshal Rommel's chief-of-staff: "Which among all the non-German troops were the best soldiers: the Finns, the Croats, the Hungarians?" "None of them," he said: "the Rumanians. Give them good leadership and they are as good as any you'll find." Cyrus L. Sulzberger in "A Long Row of Candles" "I have already shown what could and could not be expected of Romanian troops in various situations. But they were still our best allies and did fight bravely in many places." Field Marshal von Manstein in "Lost Victories"
Would expect something like that from a man who took part in Kursk. It was about supplies. I do not think most sensible people deny that Romanians and Italians guarding the flanks were not efficiently supplied.
I'm romanian and thank you very much TIK for your expert coverage as usual. History shows that romanians are not bad when defending at all; and the mere fact that some still held despite being outnumbered 3 to 1 and practically left for dead by the germans is shocking. I can't even begin to think of the guts these guys had.
This certainly gives different view about Romanian resistance that I had.I remembered only that comment from Hans Rudel.I thought that they simply fled.
To be fair to the romanians, i don't think they fought for Nazi ideology but for not beeing swallowed whole by the Soviet Union. Wich is what happend after the war. I wouldn't want to have Stalin as my neighbour either.
@@highroller6244 very few romanians were fascist to begin with, the iron guard took power because the king fled the country. Safe to say that romanians were fighting first and foremost to regain bessarabia and make sure that a 42 year long communist era didn't happen. They didnt really succeed at that..
I had a family member (a Romanian Army officer) that was captured on the eastern front. He said that they were hungry and cold and were captured while searching some houses for food. He lost 2 men while on food runs. One got into a lake and removed the pin on a hand grenade, he slowly got into the water to place the grenade further away from the shore not scaring the fish when the thing blew up in his hand while underwater. The Romanian soldiers rushed to get him out and my family member described what he saw. "His abdomen was torn apart and you could see his guts. The body fat looked like butter. He died a few minutes later". On a different day, the second soldier was so hungry he said, that he told his squad that he will head into the forest to try and hunt something. No one opposed his idea nor joined him. A minute later they all heard a gunshot and got into combat mode. They thought the Russians were close. As they approached him, he was found dead from a self-inflicted gunshot wound. He was holding his rifle by the barrel while walking into the forest and a twig must have triggered the rifle. Bullet penetrated his lower jaw, he was gone on the spot. I remember that he told me one thing. "We were so hungry and cold that we couldn't fight." He was declared K.I.A. by the Romanian army and his wife received the letter in 42-43 (not sure exactly). What I am sure of is that he was released by the Russians in 1947 when he returned home and knocked on his wife's door. He couldn't really explain how she reacted... she was in despair. He did say that her reaction was something that he's never seen before. He didn't know at that time that she thought he was K.I.A. Another thing that he would never tell me was his experience in the concentration camp. He would outright refuse to tell me how it was. And I asked a few times. What his wife told me after he passed away was the little info he gave her as he would never share this with anyone. She told me that they were force-fed sawdust with ground glass. I wish I asked more about all the things he saw, but I was still little back then and he wouldn't share much with me. I feel bad that I forgot the date he died... they only received a veteran's pension close to the year 2000. Till 1989, WW2 veterans weren't regarded well in Communist Romania. It took another 10 years for the Romanian Government to settle this little detail and start giving out veteran pensions. He died a few years after that. His wife had to go over a lot of paperwork to receive his pension after his death.
Jee... ty man or lad. Have been freaking freezin (and not even lacking food) for a short time, I can only *understand* them either do whatever possible to get a warm shelter and food, or make it ends... Whatever it takes.
The story impresses... but some parts of it seem 100% fiction: "She told me that they were force-fed sawdust with ground glass.". If so.. how did they survive? 132 755 out of 187 367 captured Romanians returned from captivity. Would these prisoners return if they were fed with glass?
@@putinugend yea, particularly as TIK already clarification in earlier video how they used prisoners as labour, and fed them to get the work. Shame for collaboration seems more likely.
@@putinugend I'm really not sure. I wasn't there. What I can tell you was that when I asked him once how it was in the camps, I could see his eyes tearing up. It might be fiction, I don't know.
@@putinugend Years ago a friend's Mom attempted to mill her own grains. The resulting mixture was so coarsely ground it made a bread that we all imagined what sawdust tasted like. Now imagine coarsely ground grain with lots of sand/dirt or other contamination and I can easily believe it would taste like sawdust and glass.
Thanks for setting the record straight, regarding the soviet attack against the Romanians. The soldiers who did their duty, by trying to defend the line with inadequate resources deserve this.
I am Romanian and I don't want to be subjective but the Romanian Army was badly under-equipped. Romanian lines were weaker because of the lack of guns and armored vehicles and the Soviets just did what was logical: exploit the enemy's weakest point. So they attacked the Romanian flank because it was much easier to pierce the front there. They couldn't resist the soviet assaults and hold the lines but they did not flee from the battlefield. The Romanian soldiers were simply killed on the battlefield in great numbers, they were effectively wiped out. My grandfather was sent to Stalingrad, he did not use to smoke so he was took as an officer's adjuvant (like some kind of valet for an officer). He was the only one who came back from the war from the whole unit. All the other soldiers that fought on the battlefield were killed, they had never come back home. So I guess that is rather what has happened there, and not that bad propaganda that the Romanians fled away. I think it is even the opposite, they stood up and fought until the last one.
This is pretty common knowledge for anyone who’s really studied that battle. The Romanian army was poorly equipped and in many cases, poorly led. The vast majority of Romanian soldiers fought valiantly. Especially when you consider their dreadful circumstances.
Even though I have read dozens of accounts about this operation and watched several videos/documentaries about it as well, I feel that your description is providing the most accurate account I've ever seen, and I'm quite sure that many other subscribers here feel the same way. This level of FILTHY DETAIL and critical analysis of the historiography is what compelled me to become a patreon in the first place. This is just awesome.
Well, not really. Romanians were mixed bag. Depending on the unit, some troops were simply demoralized due to poor conditions on Eastern Front, no clear goal and overall attitude of Romanian officers towards troops. Some units fought relatively well, especially those that did not face overwhelming tank attacks.
Nice to see the Romanians getting some respect for what must have been a nightmare no win situation. They seem to have performed far better than could reasonably have been expected of them. A fighting withdrawal is probably the toughest task for any army to attempt, let alone one with next to no transport, poor officer training, dreadful logistics, limited value equipment and an "ally" who leaves your arse hanging out in the breeze, then blames you for not performing miracles.
Taking part on the Stalingrad battle is one of the dark pages of our history, we should have stopped at Dniester (Nistru) river, when we already recovered the territory taken by Soviet Union. I pity those soldiers because my grandparents were among them, fortunatelly, both managed to survive the war after being wounded and evacuated back to Romania. But I feel much sorry for the civilian population who suffered in those lands. Our history classes were silent about these battles because communists were not very comfortable showing that we fought against the "big brother" from the East. I learn more and more everyday on TH-cam of war facts, sometimes shamefull, sometimes heroic, done by my forefathers. History needs to be remembered, bad and good, in order not to repeat it.
The ridicolous and preposterous blaming on the romanians, hungarians and italians gets tiring. Same if it had been on the germans and soviets of course, it's not the identity itself the matter.
Sounds a little bit like what happened the Irish 16div when it faced the last big German offensive in ww1 and got completely overwhelmed in the early stages .. Some British generals tried to smear the 16th because of how the Germans broke through critism which angered more junior officers who knew the terrible odds they faced that day
@@iulianzagan779 you're an absolute fool, if we stop at the Dniester the Germans simply lose the war faster and we get run over earlier than we did historically. If you think the Soviets would not simply invade and roll over the entire country just because we 'only invaded a little bit' I don't even know what to tell you.
The romanians and the italians were pretty much left exposed on the flanks and had no anti-tank guns to counter the soviet offensive to encircle Stalingrad.
@@33z6i6 They had some,mostly Czech 47 mm guns,probably handful of PAK40s,but majority of those couldn't do much against T-34s,although about a 3rd of tanks in Soviet tank corps were lighter T-70,still they had quite a bit of armor.
Axis in genera lacked anti-tank guns. War on the Eastern Front could not be won by defending alone. Side that could keep up the initiative would eventually win.
Your coverage of Stalingrad is truly stunning. Taking the politics out of it, the Romanians and Paulus faced overwhelming odds, but fought heroically nonetheless. The entire German-Stalingrad entire front was a disaster in the making.
one of my favorite things about the channel is people understanding one isn't taking the views of Germany during the time when explaining the German point of view on a topic. To much time explaining "I'm not a Nazi, but". One doesn't need to be a German to talk about strategy and tactics used by them during the war.
There's an anecdote about a Romanian soldier who, in frustration, climbed on a Russian tank with only a hammer. He then started smashing the barrel of their gun with his hammer. Even if he was on the losing side, that guy is a hero in my book
"What did you did you do in the war grandad?" "I fought a tank with my hammer." "You what?!" "Yeah, I basically went insane. Seemed the only thing to do at the time"
Regarding Rudel ("Ulrich") not being able to see through the fog, that makes no sense, the fog is something that can appear here and there, near ditches, and suddenly disappear. On a front which spans for many dozens of kilometres it is not sensible to expect to encounter the same fog in every point. You might have a very thick fog here, and no fog 1 km from here. What is ungenerous by Rudel is the unjust criticism of the Romanian forces, which doesn't take into account the total lack of anti-tank means and therefore the impossibility to mount a defence. We must not forget that Rudel lost a leg because he was shot by Rumanian forces while he was trying to land at a Rumanian airport. Basically, the Rumanians "switched side" while Rudel was in flight and when he was coming back at his airport he was shot at by his own airport's AA batteries. This left him without a leg for the rest of his life and, I presume, this does not incline Rudel very favourably toward the Rumanians, in general!
thanks TIK, i have this fascination for all things Stalingrad 1942/3, also some incredible comments about the experiences of the brave Romanians who actually survived and even disowned or shunned by there government, regardless it is worthwhile having the misconceptions clarified, very easy to find yourself on the wrong side or taking sides at all in this crazy world, even so, great work Tik
Tik again, your really innovating how you present the info. Love the coloring of the area of the armies at 1:37 I guess the penetration of the Romanians were just a convenient excuse as to how Army Group South was lost when the German generals were "so brilliant".
Thanks for your great work TIK, I greatly appreciate your dedication to historical accuracy and your ability to talk about Uranus for 40 minutes without a single bad taste joke.
So you enjoyed a man investigating Uranus in a grown up way? Did you like the part where the Russians penetrated the Romanian rear and discovered their camp?
Have you read 'Through Hell for Hitler'. The author (in the 22nd Panzer Division) claims to have been manning a PAK38 embedded with the Romanians. He describes the Soviet bombardment of the 19th as well as the fog. His gun position was quickly overwhelmed by armor assaulting infantry. He hid in a bunker as tanks ran over his gun and his comrades. He also notes that he emerged from the bunker to see that the Soviets had already moved away. Wounded and dying Romanians and Germans were still in the trench line. The author offers no aid to anyone and then begins a retreat back to German lines, which is a remarkable story as well. It's an interesting book and is not complimentary of the 22nd Panzer Division's abilities and certainly not to the character of the author, who repeatedly fails to assist his comrades. Not a teammate you would want to have in such a situation. Of course it's easy for me to judge from the comfort of a warm office and not having to make a life or death choice in the aftermath of Operation Uranus.
Please, note on the map the 14th, 5th, and 13th Romanian infantry divisions. In November 1940, when Romania became an Axis ally, and 3 German infantry divisions were stationed in southern Romania, they were paired with exactly these Romanian infantry divisions to receive a one year training. The plan was to repeat the process 5 years with other units, so that by 1945 to have 15 Romanian divisions trained. This obviously was interrupted by the German invasion of Yugoslavia and Greece in April-May 1941. 14th division was arguably the best regular Romanian division, proven by its performance both on the Don, and in previous battles in 1941-42. Most importantly, its commanding general was one of more qualified Romanian generals. Unfortunately, on November 19th, 1942, it lost (KIA) 5 of its 7 infantry battalion commanders and 4 of its 6 artillery battalion commanders, along with (KIA and WIA) about half of its officers. None the less, this division somehow managed to escape the cauldron, although with very heavy personnel loses. The most remarkable probably was the fate of the 15th division. Its commanding general was one of only 2 Romanian generals with military studies outside Romania (Saumur, France), and probably the best Romanian general in WW2. Prior, he was the deputy commander and de facto commander (as the formal commander was a minister in the government of the military dictator of Romania at the time) of the 1st (and only) Romanian Armored Division. He was envied very much by other Romanian generals, and as a punishment for contradicting them too often, was removed from the command of the 1st Armored Division, and (after some months) was send to command the 15th Infantry Division on the Don. When 4 Romanian divisions were surrounded he advocated for a breakthrough, while the other generals advocated surrender. He managed to send out, in small groups, the survivors of his 15th division, so virtually none of them became a POW. On the 24th of November, he died when the last breaking out group ran into a Soviet ambush. He was killed by machine gun fire. His detractors used this "opportunity" to dismantle the 15th division, although it was one of the best performers on the Don, and most of its personnel survived.
Romania had over 50 graduates only from the Saint-Cyr Ecole Superieure de Guerre between 1919 and 1939, several of them generals in the WW2. At least 2 in each year promotion, 3 or 4 in some years.
@@autnocens Can you, please, be more specific? Honestly, I have tried to find this information, and couldn't. (From a secondary source I got the number 2 total all years until 1939 from both Saumur and Saint-Cyr. But I could not confirm it. It's good for a working hypothesis in the absence of any other, but is not an established fact.) Do you have any sources you can share? Do you know a few names of Romanian graduates of Saint-Cyr, so that we could verify it this way?
@@PaddingtonBear4 Sorry, not Saint-Cyr - Ecole Superieure de Guerre of Paris, my bad. There were some who went to Saint-Cyr, but in the previous post I was referring to the Paris war college. In a way is a higher ranking academic institution, but for general staff and such.
@@PaddingtonBear4 Well, you may consult links like this one, for Saint-Cyr, but not sure how reliable: www.saint-cyr.org/medias/editor/files/1926-1928-113e-promotion-du-slt-pol-lapeyre.pdf In this example they mention 2 future Romanian generals but I can't trace them and I'm pretty sure their names aren't reproduced correctly. They also mention somewhere that there are discrepancies between various promotions data. In the first link I gave you info is more reliable (not all the names are identifiable to the actual person) but some certainly are and can be cross-referenced with other data (future generals Potopeanu, Bungescu, Paul Teodorescu, Vorobchievici, Giossanu, etc).
Thank you very much for working so hard to get this done, I've been eagerly awaiting the beginning of operation Uranus. And thank you for your continuing efforts on this series as I find it so interesting and educational.
Despite their limited arms, the Romanians proudly held their ground and repulsed the first attack - a fact corroborated by a German officer attached to the 13th Romanian Infantry Division. A second attack, two hours later, brought large groups of Russian infantry out of the mist, completely outfitted in white winter clothing, accompanied by the dreaded T-34 tanks - over 200 hundred of them. For the horror-struck Romanians, it seemed that every tank in Russia was streaming over the flat, snow-covered steppes towards them. They attempted to hold their ground as before and destroyed some of the tanks, but without proper anti-tank weapons, it was a hopeless defense. Several groups of tanks trundled over the forward perimeter and turning in the interior, blasted the inner lines. At mid-day, with the fighting threatening to bog down, the Russians sent in the bulk of their armor to charge the Romanian lines. In the Kletskaya sector, the 4th Tank Corps and the 3rd Guards Cavalry Corps tore through the lines held by Romanian IV Corps and rushed south. The Soviet cavalry, still equipped with horses - in this case, Cossack ponies - sped across the Romanian-held territory, keeping pace with the tanks. In half an hour, tanks from the 5th Tank Army reached the perimeter of the II Romanian Corps and blasted a way in. Trenches collapsed as the armor rumbled over them, burying the unfortunate soldiers within. The 8th Cavalry Corps followed, opened the penetration. chindits.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/stalingrad-pocket-6e.pdf
Thanks for a realistic evaluation of what happened. Contrary to the popular narrative (just like the campaign, where the 6th army drove to Stalingrad) the defending side actually put up as much of a defense as they could and didn't just run away.
great episode. I know the British and Americans could sometimes be rough with each other but they were practically cheerleaders compared to how the Germans felt about their allies.
I think there are a few key differences. First, they won. You don't need a scapegoat if you win. And when things did go poorly in joint operations, there was a ton of fingerprinting between the British and Americans. Even during the war, presenting that defeats were only because of those cowardly foreigners and that the glorious German Army could win was an important element of propaganda. Second, they are much more comparable in their scope and contribution. Both the US and British Commonwealth forces bore a huge amount of the fighting. Whereas the Romanians were extremely few in number compared to the Germans. Third, they were not normally very integrated. You would generally see British and American forces operating alongside each other but as par of the same force. There are plenty of exceptions, but it would be a small part of the overall picture. Fourth, the successful efforts of senior Wehrmacht generals to cover themselves in glory and shift the blame for defeats elsewhere. And while the West absolutely did whitewash its histories of WWII, it was not nearly to the same degree as Halder et al. The same efforts that led to the creation of the Clean Wehrmacht Mytg etc reinforced that it was always the fault of Hitler, the SS, or foreigners when anything went wrong, never the Heer. Fifth (and by no means least) the very core Nazi ideology was built on the superiority of Germans over any othee peoples. So, of course, any defeat has to be the fault of the inferior foreigners. That just flows naturally from Naziism and can be seen as a parallel to the "Stabbed in the back" myth
@@88porpoise "That just flows naturally from Naziism" General feeling of superiority is not "nazism". Take modern America, they would always say their armies are the best and superior to smaller weaker allies. That's not "nazism".,
@@AFGuidesHD being a core part of Naziism doesn't mean it is exclusive to Naziism. Racism and nationalism asserting German superiority over everyone else was a fundamental component of Naziism from the very start and permeated every aspect of Nazi Germany.
@@88porpoise I mean, like I said, it formed a "fundamental part" of Germany at the time, still probably does for many people lol You don't need to be a "nazi" to say the German Wehrmacht was superior to the Romanian Wehrmacht.
I only had the chance to speak to one veteran who fought in the "Lascar Pocket". I remember him telling me about a german liaison officer that was trapped with them who wouldn't stop cursing Hitler and his HQ for abandoning them in that hellhole.
As always, very good episode. Nice that you were able to redeem the Romanian's reputation somewhat by clarifying the context. Since reading Beevor's book I had the suspicion that the Romanian collapse was more the Germans' fault than anyone else's (something even Beevor acknowledges). Keep up the good work - really looking forward to the next episode!
In addition to what is mentioned in the video, what motivation would the average Romanian soldier have to be freezing his ass off a thousand miles away from home? How people can leave this out as a factor and attribute lack of performance to some kind of a inherent weakness as men has always been baffling to me.
TIK, your cv is beyond question, a few years work there and much of it of great worth. You are the go to for Stalingrad. You are becoming the youtube modern historian. I congratulate you on the achievements. Please say something on modernity.
Thank you for another great video. Very educational. A wealth of information for not only WW2 buffs but also for anyone interested in history. Please keep up the good work.
me watching the clock waiting for a new amazing tik video to be out: Tik Tok Tik Tok Tik tok for real though, tik you are the reason I look forward to Mondays but I also hope you don't burn yourself out in the process. Keep up the amazing work!
Thank you for another informative and interesting and detailed analysis of the entire Stalingrad campaign. I enjoy almost every video that you do and urge you to take any time off that you need as I would really miss your videos no matter what subject you cover.
Great work as always TIK - amazing you are doing this and all your extras. Your fans are in awe. I do feel sorry for the Rumanians - used as cannon fodder by the Germans against the Russians then used as cannon fodder by the Russians against the Hungarians and that after being crushed by the Germans in World War 1. Now once again they are virtually on the front line against Putin! Not much luck.
What the hell are you writing man? In ww1 we weren't crushed by the germans at all, because they didn't defeated us completely. And against hungarians we were never forced by russians to charge against hungarians(in fact hungarians were badly defeated in the battle of Pauliș and Ineu by romanian cadets in 1944 after the 23 august coup), but against the german 8th waffen SS cavarly division, during the battle of Oarba de Mureș.
This is one more chapter in TIK's exceptional and innovative account of the battle. While there are objections that could be raised to certain statements, the evidence of careful research and thoughtful consideration of the events is clear. I hope that TIK appreciates the full value and scope of his work. Thanks for this episode and for the entire series on Stalingrad.
I have probably said it before but fantastic job on your battle map graphics. It makes things so easy to follow. The commander pictures are a great touch to. It makes the groups, corps and divisions etc so much easier to remember that just a static number. Thanks for your hard work.
Have a look at Third Axis, Fourth Ally: Romanian Armed Forces in the European War, 1941-1945 by Mark Axworthy. Very good book on The Romanian army throughout the war, On Stalingrad they where massively overstretched, under gunned and gave several warnings to German command before the Russian offensive which all got ignored, been scapegoats alot by the Germans, although manstein was very impressed by then in the crimea A number of Romanian generals died leading bayonet charges during the Stalingrad fighting
Another incredible episode. It's insane to think of all the build up to this day. One wonders exactly when this moment became inevitable? It's the greatest question people ask about WWII. Yet seeing all the granularity of this avalanche coming down the mountain is also illuminating. Two small omissions I noticed, when you talked about the 'constellation' of operations in planning. Operation Jupiter was not mentioned as it was a subsidiary of Mars. Also, Saturn had two different sub-plans though I'm sure you're aware of them and will cover them eventually when we get to that part.
Interesting and informative. Excellent photography job making it easier for viewers to better understand what the orator was describing. Historians did a very good job presenting actual facts from fiction. Class A research project. Orator presented the documentary very well. Considering the lack of winter clothing/food/supplies. I don't blame the Romanian armed forces for retreating from the onslaught of the Russian armies.
allot Thanks (TIK) for sharing this Excellent Historical Matter & questioned (Did Romanians Flee?).I think your introducing this informative situation Episode & this Thrilling accounts in this episode showed lacks of Tanks & anti tank weapons in Quantitative & qualitative due to German supported fault ... Romanian courage fought even they were in sever difficult situation & your final evaluating extremely correct ( Romanian were not flees but they faced their Miserable fates )
Great coverage as usual. You are doing a great job on what might be the definitive video documentary of Stalingrad. Now I have to wait two more weeks for your next episode.
Well done TIK, another great episode well researched and presented yet again. A note for you on 22nd Panzer strengths [at 08:30 minutes] - According to Nafziger on July 1st 22nd Panzer had 176 tanks of which 114 were 38 (t) types. say they lost 10% of their total by November and 1/3 had been detached this give around the number of 104 that you have from your research. Their 37mm guns could knock out 1942 T-34 at 100m and up to 400m shooting at their sides.
Reminds me of the remark by Lady Tirconnell to James II after the Battle of the Boyne. When he told her that he lost because "The Irish ran." She replied, "Your majesty won the race."
Great to learn Operation Uranus disappointed on the first day. Knowing the success it eventually obtained, it is difficult to learn that its succes didn't start on the first day. Well, not entirely anyway.
My great grandpa survived this battle. He said they he lost all but one of his childhood friends in this battle. Also , many units had lads from the same villages so they had no thought of running and leaving other people behind.
Thanks for another good documentary. The Romanians fought quite well, even after being left ill-equipped, out-numbered, and hungry... But he Germans have always blamed others for what was simply their own fault and miss-judgment. And read what the Romanian Alpine troops have done in WW2, they were one of the best elite troops at that time and deserve a documentary in itself.
@@tiziogg6350 Italians do not give English names to their units. Alpine troops is an English translation and adaptation, better than word-for-word mountain hunters.
Anyone else notice BobRosskii? Germans: Romanians are cowards for running away from tanks. Romanians: What did you guys do in the First World War when you saw tanks? Germans: ...
I haven't found an english translation of Gen Sanatescu's journal. I've read it in Romanian but it goes into a lot of detail regarding this battle. Undermanned, underpowered, with stretched supplies....they had no chance
You should mention that the Romanians had little mobility. Due to lack of forage most horses were further to the rear where they could be fed. It's hard to move any heavy weapons without transport.
As I understand it, to the south of Stalingrad lies the Kalmyk Steppe which, from googled photos and the wikipedia entry, appears to be desert in all but name with almost no water, few roads and just scrubby bushes for vegetation. Panzer Ace, Richard Freiherr von Rosen's autobiography, also confirms this. Both sides appear to have placed small garrisons at strategic places and covered the huge spaces between as best they could with patrols.
@@dmitryletov8138 Okay. It is called a steppe and some photos of it do show it can be grassy. However a lot more photos (I love Google Image Search) show that it can be almost barren sand. I'm guessing it's a seasonal thing. A bit like the Namib, an area I have lived in, worked in and travelled across. In the wet season it is surprisingly green, but in the dry it can look like something from Mars. Indeed NASA has used the Namib to experiment living on Mars. This also ties in with the memoir of a German soldier that I read. He fought in that area in 1942 and 43 and described the place as a desert. Sadly I have yet to find any memoirs from Soviet soldiers who fought on the same front to confirm their new of the place. But the reason a vast length of front was held by small detachments and patrols (on both sides) was because the Kalmyk Steppe is virtually devoid of roads, settlements and water. This is despite it offering an open gateway into the flank of the German drive south to the Caucasus. The Kalmyk Steppe may be called a steppe, but to all intents and purposes it is a desert. Even Wikipedia thinks so "Small streams originate in the Yergeni, but are lost as soon as they reach the lowlands, where water can only be obtained from wells. The scanty vegetation is a mixture of the flora of south-east Russia and that of the deserts of central Asia." Sounds like a desert to me.
Reason for R-2/LT-35 low reliability was it's pneumatic driving system that was very sensitive to cold weather of eastern front. Later prototypes such as Škoda T-13 and T-14 were further simplified and pneumatic system got removed but they were already too obsolete compared to Praga TNHP with much simplier and reliable chassis.
I have a couple elderly uncles & when talking about Stalingrad they still believe it was the 'weak & cowardly Romanians fault' due to the history of this battle has been reported. I have recommended TIK's channel to them both, hopefully giving them a more a comprehensive & unbiased view of the battle.
Thank you very much for your so much in depth episodes. I love them and I had learned so much thanks to you and your hard work. I even bought some of the books you recommended to get even more into detail to the fighting. Each time I see an episode, it fells like I have a reason to celebrate when I get home after work.
Does your B.S. detector not sound off about this particular episode? Due to blast pressure and spall & splinter generation, shooting a 75mm at even an unoccupied tank at that distance does not strike me as a survivable event.
@@MrX-hz2hn what spall? The 75mm merely grazed off the tank. There were a lot of similar events occurred in ww2. One of them is during African campaign where Churchill tanks vs flak88 just a few metres away. The flak desperately shooting at it but to no avail. That were 88mm gun. I'm not surprised if 75mm failed too
@@MrX-hz2hn a old French WW1 era 75mm field gun with outdated AP ammo. Not the most shocking surprise that it failed. Remember, it wasn't big old german 75mm pak40 guns
WoW! I did it! I'm all caught up with this series. Bring it on,TIK. I've done the Market-Garden opus and the Crusader opus too. Your vids, TIK, are the best on this thing. Original and thought provoking. I really liked the Tali-Ihantala vid. Excellent! Outstanding! Kudos.
very good, I'm always interested in Romania'a role in WW2 because it isn't talked about enough considering the significant numbers involved. I thought there was also a few Italians and Hungarians on the flanks? I could be wrong though.
So if I understand this correctly, for the entire battle for the Stalingrad area, Soviet field mice rivaled all of Stalin's ( human ) forces at incapacitating German tanks...
I would recommend Unity of Command if anyone wants to play a game where unit strengths and figures are comparative to the real operation Uranus. The Romanians mostly got steamrolled as they didn't have a lot of anti-tank equipment. I don't think it was their fault.
Uranus was a stroke of genius from Zhukov really he at some point recognised that the axis army was way overstretched and had no more reinforcements so it was the right ti me to counter attack
In the book, "Soldat: Reflections of a German Soldier, 1936-1949" by Siegfried Knappe, he sympathizes with the Romanians. He was a German Artillery Officer at the battle & said the Romanians fought bravely despite having no good anti-tank weapons.
That book is a good read, have you read Panzer Commander by Hans von Luck ?
@@pashvonderc381 No. Thanks, I'll have to look that one up.
even if they had better guns it would not matter, because they had not enough men to defend those fronts, the soviet tanks could penetrated on what ever segment they could, only if they had a mobile competent formation of tanks in their backs they could defended better. also the Romanians didn't lost the bridgeheads as is implied here, they inherited the situation from the German and Italian they replaced.
The Romanians did what they could with what they had. Greetings from Romania.
At least we fought to get back our territory that Stalin stole (e.g. Basarabia, Bucovina) and against Communism.
@@kronniichiwa9909 Helped the fucking Nazis lol.
@@kronniichiwa9909 Hitler's allies
@@veaccara any maybe will be again 😊
Yeah, this isn't the first time that I've heard how thin the Romanian lines were spread out. Seems like they fought back with vigor and can hold their heads high.
I feel bad for the Romanian conscripts who were dragooned into fighting in Stalingrad. They had no idea of the hellstorm that would be unleashed on them. This is an excellent documentary!
TIK, thank you for showing both the faults and courage of both sides, many of the troops on the ground were just people trying their best regardless of how pop culture demonizes or aggrandizes them today. You do the good work of telling the truth as best you see it instead of making value judgements that are based on the overall evils of one side (although sometimes those judgements are fair, but you don't leave them out when they are). I don't always agree with your videos but your skills as a history communicator are outstanding and your work is certainly worth supporting, thank you for your hard work and effort. Godspeed, and don't let people pressure you into overworking yourself to the bone, it would be a major loss to the history community on TH-cam if you burned out.
Simple question: I can understand why the Russians were on the Volga but why were the Germans, Italians, Rumanians, and Hungarians there? Just trying to understand your literal both siderism. No Axis troops, no battle, no destroyed Stalingrad, no dead civilians, no war crimes. After you answer that I await your astute observation about the courage of Russian soldiers killing civilians in Ukraine as I type as they just trying to their best as the civilized world demonizes them..
Aaahahaha... I honestly thought Romania got invaded over the weekend...
The whole campaign was misguided, even without hindsight they knew they could not move the captured oil to be refined back in germany. In order to be at least a semi successful case blue needed more conservative/realistic goals such as capturing Stalingrad first and only then moving south as far as Maikop at most, this would allow them to pull 17th army instead of the romenians from the cauccusus ( tik mention this idea) and completely removing the Italians from the Don, and replacing them with 11th army for example. This would allowe them to beat off most of op Uranus and leave the door for the caucusus open for a 1943 campain.
In Romania, this is called "The Battle of the Don Bend" and I've personally met three veterans from it. Despite talking to them at different times (2009, 2011 and 2014) and in different places, their stories match up surprisingly well (EDIT: I should also add they were on different parts of the front as well, since the two that were taken POW were in the south of Stalingrad) - they say they were so thin on the ground they couldn't even have continuous trenches and instead had individual rifle pits for a few men set ten to twenty meters apart. They had *some* wire entanglements and mines, but not enough to cover all the frontage and they were woefully under supplied with ammunition. They also had no actual artillery, just a couple of 81mm mortars.
When the Soviets attacked they were so confident they didn't even fire at first, they just advanced in a human wave with shouts of "Hurrrah!" and red banners waving and were easily cut down by machine-gun and rifle fire and had to retreat in disarray.
On the next attack the Soviets brought in the tanks but still they couldn't get through because the tanks couldn't see their targets so their fire was largely ineffective, so in the end they just drove the tanks forwards while firing their bow machine-guns for supression, over and between the Romanian rifle pits and just kept going.
A few tanks were disabled with hand held AT charges (one of the veterans says he saw two tanks being disabled this way) but the vast majority made it into the rear of the Romanian line and drove off, while it's escorting infantry was stopped by the Romanian fire and had to retreat yet again. In fact one of the veterans specifically said that from his platoon they had no casualties at all except for two wounded and they kept fighting until late in the evening when they ran out of ammunition and were forced to surrender, since by this time they knew there was nowhere to retreat to with the Soviet tanks behind them.
It's interesting to note there is also an 1959 film called "Hunde, wollt ihr ewig leben" ("Dogs, do you want to live forever" - and it's available on TH-cam) based on a book by Fritz Wöss, who was a participant in the battle and, more importantly, a liaison to the Romanian army and his account and it's on screen depiction also seems to largely fit this account rather than the viewpoint of "the Romanians just ran" peddled by some sources, including the two tanks disabled with AT charges (although in the film it's the German main protagonist and a Romanian officer who manage the feat).
Of the three veterans, one managed to find his way into the city of Stalingrad from where he was later evacuated by air after being wounded while the other two were taken prisoners and only returned to Romania in 1948 and 1950 respectively. Both had been married before bing drafted and both had been given up as dead, so by the time they came back their wives had moved on and were married to other men, so both then divorced and later remarried themselves.
One of the two has a rather more involved story, since he was a skilled machinist so instead of a regular POW camp he was sent into a factory somewhere in Siberia and he kept a detailed journal of his period in captivity, including his daily meals as well as his many amorous adventures, since he was one the very few young men left in the locality as all were at the front so he had plenty of attention from young Russian women... In fact, when he was released, he genuinely though about settling in the USSR with one of them instead of returning, but in the end he decided not to.
thank you for taking the time
thank you!
Maybe if they had enough ammunition they would have managed to hold the line against the soviet infantry with this fighting spirit. And only with tanks Operation Uranus maybe would have failed. But i dont understand how they could be low on ammo, sure they were badly supplied but they were months on a frontline without any fights.
@@Suchtel10 I must point out the two veterans who became POWs and said they were low on ammunition belonged to 1st Infantry Division, part of the 4th Romanian Army located to the south of Stalingrad - that whole area was woefully under supplied because the equipment and ammunition were going primarily to the 3rd Army to the north, because HQ considered the south a secondary front where the threat of a Soviet attack was low. This is also why they had such large frontages and no AT weaponry to speak of.
I feel they are just making up excuses. They were ineffective soliders that's why they were stationed on the flanks. To suggest they were overran because they didn't have artillery is laughable
Even knowing the outcome in detail, this account is thrilling and informative.Well done as usual!
Below some quotes about Romanian bravery at Stalingrad. And in WW2 in general.
"After World War II I asked my friend General Hans Speidel, who had commanded various mixed Axis contingents and became Field Marshal Rommel's chief-of-staff: "Which among all the non-German troops were the best soldiers: the Finns, the Croats, the Hungarians?" "None of them," he said: "the Rumanians. Give them good leadership and they are as good as any you'll find." Cyrus L. Sulzberger in "A Long Row of Candles"
"I have already shown what could and could not be expected of Romanian troops in various situations. But they were still our best allies and did fight bravely in many places."
Field Marshal von Manstein in "Lost Victories"
Would expect something like that from a man who took part in Kursk. It was about supplies. I do not think most sensible people deny that Romanians and Italians guarding the flanks were not efficiently supplied.
I'm romanian and thank you very much TIK for your expert coverage as usual. History shows that romanians are not bad when defending at all; and the mere fact that some still held despite being outnumbered 3 to 1 and practically left for dead by the germans is shocking. I can't even begin to think of the guts these guys had.
Romanians fighting for the Nazis is nothing to be proud of. Romanians running away was smarter.
This certainly gives different view about Romanian resistance that I had.I remembered only that comment from Hans Rudel.I thought that they simply fled.
@@user-jq2iz9zn4p you probably would not sit and say that if Germany won the war
To be fair to the romanians, i don't think they fought for Nazi ideology but for not beeing swallowed whole by the Soviet Union. Wich is what happend after the war. I wouldn't want to have Stalin as my neighbour either.
@@highroller6244 very few romanians were fascist to begin with, the iron guard took power because the king fled the country. Safe to say that romanians were fighting first and foremost to regain bessarabia and make sure that a 42 year long communist era didn't happen. They didnt really succeed at that..
Yeah!
And after 18 minutes of setting the stage we hear "Let's find out!"
You are great, man!
I love it when he does that.
"Romanian resistance had been much tougher than expected." should be repeated.
I had a family member (a Romanian Army officer) that was captured on the eastern front. He said that they were hungry and cold and were captured while searching some houses for food. He lost 2 men while on food runs. One got into a lake and removed the pin on a hand grenade, he slowly got into the water to place the grenade further away from the shore not scaring the fish when the thing blew up in his hand while underwater. The Romanian soldiers rushed to get him out and my family member described what he saw. "His abdomen was torn apart and you could see his guts. The body fat looked like butter. He died a few minutes later". On a different day, the second soldier was so hungry he said, that he told his squad that he will head into the forest to try and hunt something. No one opposed his idea nor joined him. A minute later they all heard a gunshot and got into combat mode. They thought the Russians were close. As they approached him, he was found dead from a self-inflicted gunshot wound. He was holding his rifle by the barrel while walking into the forest and a twig must have triggered the rifle. Bullet penetrated his lower jaw, he was gone on the spot. I remember that he told me one thing. "We were so hungry and cold that we couldn't fight." He was declared K.I.A. by the Romanian army and his wife received the letter in 42-43 (not sure exactly). What I am sure of is that he was released by the Russians in 1947 when he returned home and knocked on his wife's door. He couldn't really explain how she reacted... she was in despair. He did say that her reaction was something that he's never seen before. He didn't know at that time that she thought he was K.I.A. Another thing that he would never tell me was his experience in the concentration camp. He would outright refuse to tell me how it was. And I asked a few times. What his wife told me after he passed away was the little info he gave her as he would never share this with anyone. She told me that they were force-fed sawdust with ground glass. I wish I asked more about all the things he saw, but I was still little back then and he wouldn't share much with me. I feel bad that I forgot the date he died... they only received a veteran's pension close to the year 2000. Till 1989, WW2 veterans weren't regarded well in Communist Romania. It took another 10 years for the Romanian Government to settle this little detail and start giving out veteran pensions. He died a few years after that. His wife had to go over a lot of paperwork to receive his pension after his death.
Jee... ty man or lad. Have been freaking freezin (and not even lacking food) for a short time, I can only *understand* them either do whatever possible to get a warm shelter and food, or make it ends... Whatever it takes.
The story impresses... but some parts of it seem 100% fiction: "She told me that they were force-fed sawdust with ground glass.". If so.. how did they survive?
132 755 out of 187 367 captured Romanians returned from captivity. Would these prisoners return if they were fed with glass?
@@putinugend yea, particularly as TIK already clarification in earlier video how they used prisoners as labour, and fed them to get the work. Shame for collaboration seems more likely.
@@putinugend I'm really not sure. I wasn't there. What I can tell you was that when I asked him once how it was in the camps, I could see his eyes tearing up. It might be fiction, I don't know.
@@putinugend Years ago a friend's Mom attempted to mill her own grains. The resulting mixture was so coarsely ground it made a bread that we all imagined what sawdust tasted like. Now imagine coarsely ground grain with lots of sand/dirt or other contamination and I can easily believe it would taste like sawdust and glass.
Thanks for setting the record straight, regarding the soviet attack against the Romanians. The soldiers who did their duty, by trying to defend the line with inadequate resources deserve this.
I am Romanian and I don't want to be subjective but the Romanian Army was badly under-equipped. Romanian lines were weaker because of the lack of guns and armored vehicles and the Soviets just did what was logical: exploit the enemy's weakest point. So they attacked the Romanian flank because it was much easier to pierce the front there. They couldn't resist the soviet assaults and hold the lines but they did not flee from the battlefield. The Romanian soldiers were simply killed on the battlefield in great numbers, they were effectively wiped out. My grandfather was sent to Stalingrad, he did not use to smoke so he was took as an officer's adjuvant (like some kind of valet for an officer). He was the only one who came back from the war from the whole unit. All the other soldiers that fought on the battlefield were killed, they had never come back home.
So I guess that is rather what has happened there, and not that bad propaganda that the Romanians fled away. I think it is even the opposite, they stood up and fought until the last one.
Not just they, they were expected to cover long distances with limited resources.
The german generals blamed everyone but themselves after the war and because of the Cold war everyone ate the bs up.
This is pretty common knowledge for anyone who’s really studied that battle. The Romanian army was poorly equipped and in many cases, poorly led. The vast majority of Romanian soldiers fought valiantly. Especially when you consider their dreadful circumstances.
Even though I have read dozens of accounts about this operation and watched several videos/documentaries about it as well, I feel that your description is providing the most accurate account I've ever seen, and I'm quite sure that many other subscribers here feel the same way. This level of FILTHY DETAIL and critical analysis of the historiography is what compelled me to become a patreon in the first place. This is just awesome.
Those poor brave men did as much as anyone could have asked of them with such equipment shortage against overwhelming everything really.
So did the Germans and and anyone fighting in that hell...
Well, not really. Romanians were mixed bag. Depending on the unit, some troops were simply demoralized due to poor conditions on Eastern Front, no clear goal and overall attitude of Romanian officers towards troops. Some units fought relatively well, especially those that did not face overwhelming tank attacks.
The Romanian soldiers were fighting for the Nazis. I am glad the Red Army killed them.
The Romanians were actually badass.
@@ltdike123 they were the best axis troops in urban warfare.
Nice to see the Romanians getting some respect for what must have been a nightmare no win situation. They seem to have performed far better than could reasonably have been expected of them.
A fighting withdrawal is probably the toughest task for any army to attempt, let alone one with next to no transport, poor officer training, dreadful logistics, limited value equipment and an "ally" who leaves your arse hanging out in the breeze, then blames you for not performing miracles.
They weren’t even allowed a fighting withdrawal. They were asked to stand fast and halt
Taking part on the Stalingrad battle is one of the dark pages of our history, we should have stopped at Dniester (Nistru) river, when we already recovered the territory taken by Soviet Union.
I pity those soldiers because my grandparents were among them, fortunatelly, both managed to survive the war after being wounded and evacuated back to Romania.
But I feel much sorry for the civilian population who suffered in those lands.
Our history classes were silent about these battles because communists were not very comfortable showing that we fought against the "big brother" from the East.
I learn more and more everyday on TH-cam of war facts, sometimes shamefull, sometimes heroic, done by my forefathers.
History needs to be remembered, bad and good, in order not to repeat it.
The ridicolous and preposterous blaming on the romanians, hungarians and italians gets tiring.
Same if it had been on the germans and soviets of course, it's not the identity itself the matter.
Sounds a little bit like what happened the Irish 16div when it faced the last big German offensive in ww1 and got completely overwhelmed in the early stages ..
Some British generals tried to smear the 16th because of how the Germans broke through critism which angered more junior officers who knew the terrible odds they faced that day
@@iulianzagan779 you're an absolute fool, if we stop at the Dniester the Germans simply lose the war faster and we get run over earlier than we did historically. If you think the Soviets would not simply invade and roll over the entire country just because we 'only invaded a little bit' I don't even know what to tell you.
The romanians and the italians were pretty much left exposed on the flanks and had no anti-tank guns to counter the soviet offensive to encircle Stalingrad.
You mean their own army lacked anti-tank guns?
@@33z6i6 They had some,mostly Czech 47 mm guns,probably handful of PAK40s,but majority of those couldn't do much against T-34s,although about a 3rd of tanks in Soviet tank corps were lighter T-70,still they had quite a bit of armor.
Axis in genera lacked anti-tank guns. War on the Eastern Front could not be won by defending alone. Side that could keep up the initiative would eventually win.
@@33z6i6 Not even Germans had anti tank guns. The mediocrity of German High Command was to blame, not Axis Minors like Italy or Finland.
@@leme5639 The Germans are to blame for their own lack of at guns. The same goes for their Axis allies...
Your coverage of Stalingrad is truly stunning. Taking the politics out of it, the Romanians and Paulus faced overwhelming odds, but fought heroically nonetheless. The entire German-Stalingrad entire front was a disaster in the making.
one of my favorite things about the channel is people understanding one isn't taking the views of Germany during the time when explaining the German point of view on a topic. To much time explaining "I'm not a Nazi, but". One doesn't need to be a German to talk about strategy and tactics used by them during the war.
Heroic? There was nothing heroic about Nazism. The Red Army was heroic.
@@user-jq2iz9zn4p You obviously missed the point the OP was making both in meaning and spirit.
@@hernerweisenberg7052 Werner Heisenberg was a Nazi too. Stuff it.
@@user-jq2iz9zn4p feel better now that that's out of the way?
There's an anecdote about a Romanian soldier who, in frustration, climbed on a Russian tank with only a hammer. He then started smashing the barrel of their gun with his hammer. Even if he was on the losing side, that guy is a hero in my book
That called a moron, it’s not heroic to waist your life in battle.
that story is confirmed even by the Russians.
"What did you did you do in the war grandad?" "I fought a tank with my hammer." "You what?!" "Yeah, I basically went insane. Seemed the only thing to do at the time"
Imagine doing that and tomorrow you're watching TV in Hell and there's a Nazi going "ja we lost because of cowardly Romanians"
Regarding Rudel ("Ulrich") not being able to see through the fog, that makes no sense, the fog is something that can appear here and there, near ditches, and suddenly disappear. On a front which spans for many dozens of kilometres it is not sensible to expect to encounter the same fog in every point. You might have a very thick fog here, and no fog 1 km from here. What is ungenerous by Rudel is the unjust criticism of the Romanian forces, which doesn't take into account the total lack of anti-tank means and therefore the impossibility to mount a defence. We must not forget that Rudel lost a leg because he was shot by Rumanian forces while he was trying to land at a Rumanian airport. Basically, the Rumanians "switched side" while Rudel was in flight and when he was coming back at his airport he was shot at by his own airport's AA batteries. This left him without a leg for the rest of his life and, I presume, this does not incline Rudel very favourably toward the Rumanians, in general!
thanks TIK, i have this fascination for all things Stalingrad 1942/3, also some incredible comments about the experiences of the brave Romanians who actually survived and even disowned or shunned by there government, regardless it is worthwhile having the misconceptions clarified, very easy to find yourself on the wrong side or taking sides at all in this crazy world, even so, great work Tik
Just when I thought my day couldn't get any better... TIK you glorious man!
Me: *A serious student of history who takes these things very seriously*
Also me: *Snickering uncontrollably whenever I hear TiK say "Uranus"*
Much love and respect for these. You’ve inspired me to learn more about the war. Just finished Kiev 1941 and now on Retreat from Moscow
Tik again, your really innovating how you present the info. Love the coloring of the area of the armies at 1:37
I guess the penetration of the Romanians were just a convenient excuse as to how Army Group South was lost when the German generals were "so brilliant".
Thanks for your great work TIK, I greatly appreciate your dedication to historical accuracy and your ability to talk about Uranus for 40 minutes without a single bad taste joke.
So you enjoyed a man investigating Uranus in a grown up way? Did you like the part where the Russians penetrated the Romanian rear and discovered their camp?
Have you read 'Through Hell for Hitler'. The author (in the 22nd Panzer Division) claims to have been manning a PAK38 embedded with the Romanians. He describes the Soviet bombardment of the 19th as well as the fog. His gun position was quickly overwhelmed by armor assaulting infantry. He hid in a bunker as tanks ran over his gun and his comrades. He also notes that he emerged from the bunker to see that the Soviets had already moved away. Wounded and dying Romanians and Germans were still in the trench line. The author offers no aid to anyone and then begins a retreat back to German lines, which is a remarkable story as well. It's an interesting book and is not complimentary of the 22nd Panzer Division's abilities and certainly not to the character of the author, who repeatedly fails to assist his comrades. Not a teammate you would want to have in such a situation. Of course it's easy for me to judge from the comfort of a warm office and not having to make a life or death choice in the aftermath of Operation Uranus.
I'm sure they made a movie about that except the bunker was a haystack.
Please, note on the map the 14th, 5th, and 13th Romanian infantry divisions. In November 1940, when Romania became an Axis ally, and 3 German infantry divisions were stationed in southern Romania, they were paired with exactly these Romanian infantry divisions to receive a one year training. The plan was to repeat the process 5 years with other units, so that by 1945 to have 15 Romanian divisions trained. This obviously was interrupted by the German invasion of Yugoslavia and Greece in April-May 1941.
14th division was arguably the best regular Romanian division, proven by its performance both on the Don, and in previous battles in 1941-42. Most importantly, its commanding general was one of more qualified Romanian generals. Unfortunately, on November 19th, 1942, it lost (KIA) 5 of its 7 infantry battalion commanders and 4 of its 6 artillery battalion commanders, along with (KIA and WIA) about half of its officers. None the less, this division somehow managed to escape the cauldron, although with very heavy personnel loses.
The most remarkable probably was the fate of the 15th division. Its commanding general was one of only 2 Romanian generals with military studies outside Romania (Saumur, France), and probably the best Romanian general in WW2. Prior, he was the deputy commander and de facto commander (as the formal commander was a minister in the government of the military dictator of Romania at the time) of the 1st (and only) Romanian Armored Division. He was envied very much by other Romanian generals, and as a punishment for contradicting them too often, was removed from the command of the 1st Armored Division, and (after some months) was send to command the 15th Infantry Division on the Don. When 4 Romanian divisions were surrounded he advocated for a breakthrough, while the other generals advocated surrender. He managed to send out, in small groups, the survivors of his 15th division, so virtually none of them became a POW. On the 24th of November, he died when the last breaking out group ran into a Soviet ambush. He was killed by machine gun fire. His detractors used this "opportunity" to dismantle the 15th division, although it was one of the best performers on the Don, and most of its personnel survived.
Romania had over 50 graduates only from the Saint-Cyr Ecole Superieure de Guerre between 1919 and 1939, several of them generals in the WW2. At least 2 in each year promotion, 3 or 4 in some years.
@@autnocens Can you, please, be more specific? Honestly, I have tried to find this information, and couldn't. (From a secondary source I got the number 2 total all years until 1939 from both Saumur and Saint-Cyr. But I could not confirm it. It's good for a working hypothesis in the absence of any other, but is not an established fact.) Do you have any sources you can share? Do you know a few names of Romanian graduates of Saint-Cyr, so that we could verify it this way?
@@PaddingtonBear4 Sorry, not Saint-Cyr - Ecole Superieure de Guerre of Paris, my bad. There were some who went to Saint-Cyr, but in the previous post I was referring to the Paris war college. In a way is a higher ranking academic institution, but for general staff and such.
@@PaddingtonBear4 Well, you may consult links like this one, for Saint-Cyr, but not sure how reliable: www.saint-cyr.org/medias/editor/files/1926-1928-113e-promotion-du-slt-pol-lapeyre.pdf
In this example they mention 2 future Romanian generals but I can't trace them and I'm pretty sure their names aren't reproduced correctly. They also mention somewhere that there are discrepancies between various promotions data.
In the first link I gave you info is more reliable (not all the names are identifiable to the actual person) but some certainly are and can be cross-referenced with other data (future generals Potopeanu, Bungescu, Paul Teodorescu, Vorobchievici, Giossanu, etc).
@@autnocens Thank you!
Thank you very much for working so hard to get this done, I've been eagerly awaiting the beginning of operation Uranus.
And thank you for your continuing efforts on this series as I find it so interesting and educational.
Despite their limited arms, the Romanians proudly held their ground and repulsed the first
attack - a fact corroborated by a German officer attached to the 13th Romanian Infantry Division.
A second attack, two hours later, brought large groups of Russian infantry out of the mist, completely
outfitted in white winter clothing, accompanied by the dreaded T-34 tanks - over 200 hundred of
them. For the horror-struck Romanians, it seemed that every tank in Russia was streaming over the flat,
snow-covered steppes towards them.
They attempted to hold their ground as before and destroyed some of the tanks, but without
proper anti-tank weapons, it was a hopeless defense. Several groups of tanks trundled over the
forward perimeter and turning in the interior, blasted the inner lines. At mid-day, with the fighting threatening to bog down, the Russians sent in the bulk of their armor to charge the Romanian lines.
In the Kletskaya sector, the 4th Tank Corps and the 3rd Guards Cavalry Corps tore through the lines
held by Romanian IV Corps and rushed south. The Soviet cavalry, still equipped with horses - in this
case, Cossack ponies - sped across the Romanian-held territory, keeping pace with the tanks. In half
an hour, tanks from the 5th Tank Army reached the perimeter of the II Romanian Corps and blasted a
way in. Trenches collapsed as the armor rumbled over them, burying the unfortunate soldiers within.
The 8th Cavalry Corps followed, opened the penetration.
chindits.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/stalingrad-pocket-6e.pdf
Excellent description and story. Thank you.
Thanks for a realistic evaluation of what happened. Contrary to the popular narrative (just like the campaign, where the 6th army drove to Stalingrad) the defending side actually put up as much of a defense as they could and didn't just run away.
great episode. I know the British and Americans could sometimes be rough with each other but they were practically cheerleaders compared to how the Germans felt about their allies.
I think there are a few key differences.
First, they won. You don't need a scapegoat if you win. And when things did go poorly in joint operations, there was a ton of fingerprinting between the British and Americans. Even during the war, presenting that defeats were only because of those cowardly foreigners and that the glorious German Army could win was an important element of propaganda.
Second, they are much more comparable in their scope and contribution. Both the US and British Commonwealth forces bore a huge amount of the fighting. Whereas the Romanians were extremely few in number compared to the Germans.
Third, they were not normally very integrated. You would generally see British and American forces operating alongside each other but as par of the same force. There are plenty of exceptions, but it would be a small part of the overall picture.
Fourth, the successful efforts of senior Wehrmacht generals to cover themselves in glory and shift the blame for defeats elsewhere. And while the West absolutely did whitewash its histories of WWII, it was not nearly to the same degree as Halder et al. The same efforts that led to the creation of the Clean Wehrmacht Mytg etc reinforced that it was always the fault of Hitler, the SS, or foreigners when anything went wrong, never the Heer.
Fifth (and by no means least) the very core Nazi ideology was built on the superiority of Germans over any othee peoples. So, of course, any defeat has to be the fault of the inferior foreigners. That just flows naturally from Naziism and can be seen as a parallel to the "Stabbed in the back" myth
Yeah this sounds like Myth, the Brits regularly blamed the Australians and South Africans when things went bad in North Africa.
@@88porpoise "That just flows naturally from Naziism"
General feeling of superiority is not "nazism". Take modern America, they would always say their armies are the best and superior to smaller weaker allies. That's not "nazism".,
@@AFGuidesHD being a core part of Naziism doesn't mean it is exclusive to Naziism.
Racism and nationalism asserting German superiority over everyone else was a fundamental component of Naziism from the very start and permeated every aspect of Nazi Germany.
@@88porpoise I mean, like I said, it formed a "fundamental part" of Germany at the time, still probably does for many people lol
You don't need to be a "nazi" to say the German Wehrmacht was superior to the Romanian Wehrmacht.
I only had the chance to speak to one veteran who fought in the "Lascar Pocket". I remember him telling me about a german liaison officer that was trapped with them who wouldn't stop cursing Hitler and his HQ for abandoning them in that hellhole.
No one covered Stalingrad by map and video this good, ever
The single best channel on TH-cam for Eastern Front History. Another fantastic job Sir!!
As always, very good episode. Nice that you were able to redeem the Romanian's reputation somewhat by clarifying the context. Since reading Beevor's book I had the suspicion that the Romanian collapse was more the Germans' fault than anyone else's (something even Beevor acknowledges).
Keep up the good work - really looking forward to the next episode!
In addition to what is mentioned in the video, what motivation would the average Romanian soldier have to be freezing his ass off a thousand miles away from home? How people can leave this out as a factor and attribute lack of performance to some kind of a inherent weakness as men has always been baffling to me.
Nobody is better in military analysis than Tik.
ngl, I was anticipating this episode for a long time, and it was more epic as I imagined it to be
TIK, thank you so much for your continued efforts in for this series and all your videos. It's truly appreciated.
Thank you TIK. Highlight of my day already
A well balanced, well sourced analysis of the first day of Operation Uranus. Well done! Keep up the excellent work!
TIK, your cv is beyond question, a few years work there and much of it of great worth. You are the go to for Stalingrad. You are becoming the youtube modern historian. I congratulate you on the achievements. Please say something on modernity.
Thank you for another great video. Very educational. A wealth of information for not only WW2 buffs but also for anyone interested in history. Please keep up the good work.
me watching the clock waiting for a new amazing tik video to be out:
Tik Tok Tik Tok Tik tok
for real though, tik you are the reason I look forward to Mondays but I also hope you don't burn yourself out in the process. Keep up the amazing work!
Thank you for another informative and interesting and detailed analysis of the entire Stalingrad campaign. I enjoy almost every video that you do and urge you to take any time off that you need as I would really miss your videos no matter what subject you cover.
Great work as always TIK - amazing you are doing this and all your extras. Your fans are in awe. I do feel sorry for the Rumanians - used as cannon fodder by the Germans against the Russians then used as cannon fodder by the Russians against the Hungarians and that after being crushed by the Germans in World War 1. Now once again they are virtually on the front line against Putin! Not much luck.
What the hell are you writing man?
In ww1 we weren't crushed by the germans at all, because they didn't defeated us completely.
And against hungarians we were never forced by russians to charge against hungarians(in fact hungarians were badly defeated in the battle of Pauliș and Ineu by romanian cadets in 1944 after the 23 august coup), but against the german 8th waffen SS cavarly division, during the battle of Oarba de Mureș.
Used by both sides gotta suck.
Thank you TIK, the quality of your videos, editing, and research is truly an inspiration,
This is one more chapter in TIK's exceptional and innovative account of the battle. While there are objections that could be raised to certain statements, the evidence of careful research and thoughtful consideration of the events is clear. I hope that TIK appreciates the full value and scope of his work. Thanks for this episode and for the entire series on Stalingrad.
I have probably said it before but fantastic job on your battle map graphics. It makes things so easy to follow. The commander pictures are a great touch to. It makes the groups, corps and divisions etc so much easier to remember that just a static number. Thanks for your hard work.
Have a look at Third Axis, Fourth Ally: Romanian Armed Forces in the European War, 1941-1945 by Mark Axworthy. Very good book on The Romanian army throughout the war,
On Stalingrad they where massively overstretched, under gunned and gave several warnings to German command before the Russian offensive which all got ignored, been scapegoats alot by the Germans, although manstein was very impressed by then in the crimea
A number of Romanian generals died leading bayonet charges during the Stalingrad fighting
Objectivity... Wow!!! That's a rare thing! Subscribed!
Amazing work you deserve an Emmy my good friend ❤️
This series is WHY I am a patreon for this channel. Bravo Sir, bravo.
Another incredible episode. It's insane to think of all the build up to this day. One wonders exactly when this moment became inevitable? It's the greatest question people ask about WWII. Yet seeing all the granularity of this avalanche coming down the mountain is also illuminating.
Two small omissions I noticed, when you talked about the 'constellation' of operations in planning. Operation Jupiter was not mentioned as it was a subsidiary of Mars. Also, Saturn had two different sub-plans though I'm sure you're aware of them and will cover them eventually when we get to that part.
Interesting and informative. Excellent photography job making it easier for viewers to better understand what the orator was describing. Historians did a very good job presenting actual facts from fiction. Class A research project. Orator presented the documentary very well. Considering the lack of winter clothing/food/supplies. I don't blame the Romanian armed forces for retreating from the onslaught of the Russian armies.
allot Thanks (TIK) for sharing this Excellent Historical Matter & questioned (Did Romanians Flee?).I think your introducing this informative situation Episode & this Thrilling accounts in this episode showed lacks of Tanks & anti tank weapons in Quantitative & qualitative due to German supported fault ... Romanian courage fought even they were in sever difficult situation & your final evaluating extremely correct ( Romanian were not flees but they faced their Miserable fates )
Great coverage as usual. You are doing a great job on what might be the definitive video documentary of Stalingrad. Now I have to wait two more weeks for your next episode.
Great video mate ur videos make my day. -From Hong Kong
Well done TIK, another great episode well researched and presented yet again. A note for you on 22nd Panzer strengths [at 08:30 minutes] - According to Nafziger on July 1st 22nd Panzer had 176 tanks of which 114 were 38 (t) types. say they lost 10% of their total by November and 1/3 had been detached this give around the number of 104 that you have from your research. Their 37mm guns could knock out 1942 T-34 at 100m and up to 400m shooting at their sides.
Did not expect the Patton Cameo in the Stalingrad series. Kudos.
Love those frames!
Thank you for all of your work on the series TIK!
I'm a romanin, thanks for this , my dad was there and he didn't flee.
You must be so happy you finally got to this episode! congratulations!
Reminds me of the remark by Lady Tirconnell to James II after the Battle of the Boyne. When he told her that he lost because "The Irish ran." She replied, "Your majesty won the race."
Finaly !!! Operation Uranus ... been waiting soo long for it. :-)
Great to learn Operation Uranus disappointed on the first day. Knowing the success it eventually obtained, it is difficult to learn that its succes didn't start on the first day. Well, not entirely anyway.
Great video TIK, thanks for sharing this detailed history of the battle for Stalingrad
My great grandpa survived this battle. He said they he lost all but one of his childhood friends in this battle. Also , many units had lads from the same villages so they had no thought of running and leaving other people behind.
Finally, the moment we were all waiting for so long!
Thanks for another good documentary. The Romanians fought quite well, even after being left ill-equipped, out-numbered, and hungry...
But he Germans have always blamed others for what was simply their own fault and miss-judgment.
And read what the Romanian Alpine troops have done in WW2, they were one of the best elite troops at that time and deserve a documentary in itself.
Alpine troops are called in Italy.
In Romania we call them mountain Hunters.
@@tiziogg6350 Italians do not give English names to their units. Alpine troops is an English translation and adaptation, better than word-for-word mountain hunters.
Impressive work TIK, but please don't stress yourself out! These videos are always worth the wait.
Anyone else notice BobRosskii?
Germans: Romanians are cowards for running away from tanks.
Romanians: What did you guys do in the First World War when you saw tanks?
Germans: ...
they didnt run with their whole army
again and again aa great documentation about the real battle of Stalingrad, many thanks!
The moment we've all been waiting for
Great work TIK - was so looking forward to this i may have sounded like a troll the last few weeks. Back on track. Awesome.
I haven't found an english translation of Gen Sanatescu's journal. I've read it in Romanian but it goes into a lot of detail regarding this battle. Undermanned, underpowered, with stretched supplies....they had no chance
Spectacular! Very professionally done and I learned a lot. Thanks!
You should mention that the Romanians had little mobility. Due to lack of forage most horses were further to the rear where they could be fed. It's hard to move any heavy weapons without transport.
Another awesome history lesson. Thanks TIK!
As I understand it, to the south of Stalingrad lies the Kalmyk Steppe which, from googled photos and the wikipedia entry, appears to be desert in all but name with almost no water, few roads and just scrubby bushes for vegetation. Panzer Ace, Richard Freiherr von Rosen's autobiography, also confirms this. Both sides appear to have placed small garrisons at strategic places and covered the huge spaces between as best they could with patrols.
Steppe is not the desert - it's a grassland
@@dmitryletov8138 Okay. It is called a steppe and some photos of it do show it can be grassy. However a lot more photos (I love Google Image Search) show that it can be almost barren sand. I'm guessing it's a seasonal thing. A bit like the Namib, an area I have lived in, worked in and travelled across. In the wet season it is surprisingly green, but in the dry it can look like something from Mars. Indeed NASA has used the Namib to experiment living on Mars.
This also ties in with the memoir of a German soldier that I read. He fought in that area in 1942 and 43 and described the place as a desert. Sadly I have yet to find any memoirs from Soviet soldiers who fought on the same front to confirm their new of the place.
But the reason a vast length of front was held by small detachments and patrols (on both sides) was because the Kalmyk Steppe is virtually devoid of roads, settlements and water. This is despite it offering an open gateway into the flank of the German drive south to the Caucasus.
The Kalmyk Steppe may be called a steppe, but to all intents and purposes it is a desert. Even Wikipedia thinks so "Small streams originate in the Yergeni, but are lost as soon as they reach the lowlands, where water can only be obtained from wells. The scanty vegetation is a mixture of the flora of south-east Russia and that of the deserts of central Asia." Sounds like a desert to me.
Finally i started this series because i wanted to know what happened during operation Uranus in detail thank you
Reason for R-2/LT-35 low reliability was it's pneumatic driving system that was very sensitive to cold weather of eastern front. Later prototypes such as Škoda T-13 and T-14 were further simplified and pneumatic system got removed but they were already too obsolete compared to Praga TNHP with much simplier and reliable chassis.
Autolike for ages. Thank you TIK for your insta work. Wish you the best and greetz from czech republic. Jiri
Me: *A lifelong student of history who takes these things very seriously*
Also me: *Snickering uncontrollably whenever I hear TiK say "Uranus"*
No joke there's science videos up saying "NASA discussing plans to send probe to Uranius. Quit snickering."
Yeah they should had named it ‚Operation Urectum‘ instead..
@@kampfwerk Damn near Ukilled'em
WOAHH FINALLY TIK UPLOAD
Im so happy
I have a couple elderly uncles & when talking about Stalingrad they still believe it was the 'weak & cowardly Romanians fault' due to the history of this battle has been reported. I have recommended TIK's channel to them both, hopefully giving them a more a comprehensive & unbiased view of the battle.
Whatever you post I’ll be watching no demands at all. I love the color coding of the armies your getting better and better love your stuff
Message to Soviet Troops, 11/19/1942: "Prepare Uranus!"
Message to German Troops, 11/19/1942: Also "Prepare Uranus!"
Thank you very much for your so much in depth episodes. I love them and I had learned so much thanks to you and your hard work. I even bought some of the books you recommended to get even more into detail to the fighting.
Each time I see an episode, it fells like I have a reason to celebrate when I get home after work.
28:50 75mm artillery bounced off tank at 5m! A clear example of great soldier with terrible guns
Does your B.S. detector not sound off about this particular episode? Due to blast pressure and spall & splinter generation, shooting a 75mm at even an unoccupied tank at that distance does not strike me as a survivable event.
@@MrX-hz2hn what spall? The 75mm merely grazed off the tank. There were a lot of similar events occurred in ww2. One of them is during African campaign where Churchill tanks vs flak88 just a few metres away. The flak desperately shooting at it but to no avail. That were 88mm gun. I'm not surprised if 75mm failed too
@@MrX-hz2hn a old French WW1 era 75mm field gun with outdated AP ammo. Not the most shocking surprise that it failed. Remember, it wasn't big old german 75mm pak40 guns
WoW! I did it! I'm all caught up with this series. Bring it on,TIK. I've done the Market-Garden opus and the Crusader opus too. Your vids, TIK, are the best on this thing. Original and thought provoking. I really liked the Tali-Ihantala vid. Excellent! Outstanding! Kudos.
very good, I'm always interested in Romania'a role in WW2 because it isn't talked about enough considering the significant numbers involved. I thought there was also a few Italians and Hungarians on the flanks? I could be wrong though.
Hungarians and Italians were further up the Don near Voronezh
You are right. The Italian 8th Army and the 2nd Hungarian army were also along the Don to the west.
Outstanding! Great job thinking through the limitations of what each unit could reasonably perceive/know day-by-day to seek the truth of the events!
So if I understand this correctly, for the entire battle for the Stalingrad area, Soviet field mice rivaled all of Stalin's ( human ) forces at incapacitating German tanks...
That's why the German idea for a MAUS tank was completely on point 🤣🤣
Those darn field mice have been mentioned in numerous books written by German soldiers that served on the Eastern Front..
@@pashvonderc381 I guess the Soviets can thank the Patriotism of Communist Mice :p
Great, beautiful video. Huge respect!
"Hey Paulus! Uranus is about to take a pounding!"
-Zhukov. Probably.
I hate you. +1
Your vulnerable rear areas are about to get penetrated by hard T-34s!
Cant wait till 5pm so I can watch this after work. Thank you a million Tik
I would recommend Unity of Command if anyone wants to play a game where unit strengths and figures are comparative to the real operation Uranus. The Romanians mostly got steamrolled as they didn't have a lot of anti-tank equipment. I don't think it was their fault.
Excellent job, as usual, TIK!
Uranus was a stroke of genius from Zhukov really he at some point recognised that the axis army was way overstretched and had no more reinforcements so it was the right ti me to counter attack
Great job as always! Thanks TIK