When you were talking about your live-action examples done poorly, I was expecting you to mention Ray Babbitt from Rain Man. While it was positively received back in the day (to the point where the actor who played him, Dustin Hoffman, won the Oscar for Best Actor), nowadays, it has garnered some backlash for popularizing the "autistic savant" trope.
@@noahthe0tter I don't think the two examples of autism, seen between Lilo and Music, are right and wrong; to me, I see the former as high-functioning, and the latter as low-functioning; however, that doesn't mean the angle that the live-action stuff are going for is sensible. Trust me, as a high-functioning person that was once sent to a school for low-functioning people, it's about as annoying as the live-action films going that direction.
I'll be honest...as someone who was diagnosed with autism in their adulthood. I completely thought Lilo was a normal kid because I acted a lot like her.
Im autistic myself (was diagnosed at 5) and as a kid, I remember the scene where Lilo is showing Scrump to her classmates, only for them to ditch her, it hit close to home for me. To this day i still get a bit emotional with that scene (as weird as it sounds)
I always wondered why they ran away as a kid i think i even told my mom "why did they run off? That's kinda mean she made a doll" my mom tried to tell me but i couldn't understand it she was doing what they wanted.... I always wondered why i felt so connected to lilo until i finally got diagnosed with autistim and relized "holy shit she's autistic"
I was also diagnosed at 5. I went to therapy for social skills like making eye contact, but overall I was extremely high functioning and very observant of other people so I learned quickly. Throughout elementary school I was bullied not really for the way I acted, but because I always sat at the “special ed table” with the same 2 kids year after year who were much worse off on social skills than I was. Since I was “in that group” and was really the only one to understand fully their passive aggressive pranks and slander of us and reacted to it strongly with anger, they picked on me quite a bit. I then had anger issues that I had to go to therapy for, but they didn’t realize that it was me taking out my anger towards my family at home and that I was actually being bullied. I saw the videos on bullying every year but was too afraid to tell anyone because it was most of the grade bullying me and my friends (the other special ed children in and outside of my class that I played with at recess). In the videos they only ever showed a small group of bullies, so I always wondered if I was being bullied or if I wasn’t because there were too many people for it to be bullying. I didn’t want to tell anyone for fear of being wrong. I highly related to Lilo’s temper tantrums and locking herself in her room to be left alone and do things she’s interested in to cope and distract herself.
Donnie from rottmnt is my fav example of autism rn. He has alot of the "stereotypical" autism traits. He is logical and snarky tech savi, he often states that he is smarter than his brothers, he is literal and has problems with his tone, he experiences low empathy and can often come across as he doesn't care. Despite this he still is written amazingly and 3 dimensional. Unlike other versions he isn't just the tech guy and he has multiple special interests such as dancing, video games musical theatre (ok technically not Canon but he's the biggest theatre kid I've ever seen) jupiter jim etc. He has alot of sensory issues especially regarding his soft shell. None of his issues are considered flaws to overcome but more problems he has to face. I love how his arc doesn't directly connect to his autism but his separate flaws and insecurities. His autism does overall effect it but the arc could still play out the same with his autism traits removed.
In the episode snow day I think it was raph who mentions how donnies sings along the the songs in one of the jupiter Jim movies He is a theater kid fr fr
I love him so much There's a scene where he wanted to try out a tranquilizer but didn't get the chance to, so he just shot it at Raph He needed to memorize directions and turned it into a song- he built a battle pack, specifically for his soft shell. There are many scenes where his tone sounds different than he wanted it to, and he casually clarifies what he means- in the first episode he makes a joke about how this is his real voice There are *so many* good moments
Donnie is definitely one of my favorites - I didn't specifically talk about him in the video at length, but I made sure to at least show footage of him. Very well done representation, as someone who was diagnosed as autistic a number of years ago now, I hope there continues to be more good examples like this in animation
I think a sad thing to me is autistic people with high support needs don’t get representation without them either being babied or portrayed as tolerable or as an annoyance. Even other autistic people are so harsh and mean to autistic people with higher support needs.
You should check out L.A. Law sometime! One of the characters, Benny, has low functioning autism. In spite of this, everyone is really nice to him and he's portrayed as a really sweet man. (One example is a female coworker wanted to lose weight because she had really bad self esteem issues and Benny, not understanding the problem, told her "if you lost weight, you wouldn't be prettier. You'd just be smaller.")
@@jordanmchighlander9365 A lot of representation is often of lower support needs, I’m talking about higher support needs. Because not only I’d there very little, but all I’ve seen will go so far to portray them as annoyances. Making LSP autistic people seem like the ‘real rep’ or ‘easier’. Especially as someone of LSP, it hurts my heart.
@@CofiBeenz I'm new to a lot of autism terms. (Only recently found out I'm autistic.) May I ask what you mean by support needs? I thought support needs correlated with degree of high/low functioning?
@@jordanmchighlander9365 Low/High functioning terms are not well liked by the community. Which is why we say support needs. Some people’s support needs are just higher or fluctuate more than others.
Here, here! There seems to be a "one size fits all" mentality amongst the majority of people when it comes to people on the spectrum, whether high functioning or not!
I think the main reason is because many animators and creators actually are more likely to have Autism or ADHD themselves. So, it directly or indirectly leaks into their works.
As an AuDHD person (AuDHD is a slang term for those who have both ASD and ADHD) myself, and as one who wants to create an animated show, and as one who literally "animates" her show ideas in her own mind, I can see why you think this way.
@@lilysamvelian9970 I have ADD myself. Love writing my own stories too. Neurodivergent people have a higher chance to be more out of the box thinkers which leads to being more creative.
Dead End: Paranormal Park (animated show) has an autistic main character named Norma. She is very good rep in my opinion. Her special interest is Pauline, the woman who is the face of the park Norma scores a job at. She has Pauline everything. Its plastered all over her bedroom, she rewatches all of her old movies and owns all her collectors items. She's very blunt, often mistakes social ques, and really finds herself with her group of friends in the park. There is an entire episode where there is a demon that feeds off of the group's fears. She is shown having two meltdowns in this episode, one when she was younger, and another in the present day. Norma was able to save everyone because her true fear was the real world. And the whole episode was her worrying about fitting in with her new friends/coworkers because she was afraid. I found her incredibly relateable and I always love seeing how the writers portray her autism. :D
Abed Nadir from Community is one great example of ASD in a live action series; when writing the show the creator realised through writing Abed that he himself is autistic! It’s made it so that Abed while “”quirky”” to the outside world, is seen as a real human and is given people to bond with throughout the show Community was streets ahead of it’s time, running between 2009-2015, it’s very unfortunate we still get bad representation
I watched community around the same time I realized i was autistic (my mom tried to tell me before that point just for some reason the information didn’t register) and that’s really the first time i felt so seen and represented. To the people that say representation doesn’t matter you are dead wrong. It’s such a wonderful thing to see a character like yourself one way or any other in a piece of media.
I love how the most well-received autistic characters are the ones that are *actually written like characters* , and not some offensive caricature or stereotype of themselves
I feel like that's the key here. Too often, the live-action shows/movies are going in with intent to "make a neurodivergent character," without really making their character anything else outside of that. Sheldon's the biggest example, as he's _literally_ just a heap of autism stereotypes smashed together with a bunch of nerd stereotypes, and that's it. He has no personality, just a bunch of traits and tropes. They set out to design the most visibly neurodivergent characters, but don't actually make them _characters_ in any true sense of the word. In contrast, you have a lot of animated characters that aren't set out to be "an autistic/neurodivergent character," but who read as such to those watching, if they're inclined to see it. Lilo shows a lot of traits of autism, but we're never explicitly told that she's neurodivergent. We just know she's a kid everyone sees as a little bit weird and off-the-rails. Heck, some aspects of her character could even be read as ADHD by someone else (hyperfixation is also an ADHD thing, her lack of impulse control, many of her seemingly strange patterns of logic, all could read as ADHD). It all comes down to who is viewing it. That's how you reach a wider audience and gain broader social recognition. Not by slopping together a bunch of exaggerated tropes based on what neurotypical people believe is what autism looks like into a character with no other facets to their personality.
I don't know how other people autistic people feel about Data (Star Trek: New Generation) but I relate so, so much with him. He's an android, he doesn't express himself much; he doesn't understand popular sayings, jokes, emotions; he info dumps, he just CAN'T understand social cues. As the series progresses, he shows that he wants to be more like the others, more "human", he starts to understand how to properly behave. I can see my own journey on his. He doesn't understand how exactly to act. And he slowly develops and understand what kind of information is relevant for the situation (the kind of info dump he do is about important stuff for the missions, so it's better to have a filter 😅 sometimes time is really precious). And people too start to understand about him a little bit more. He starts to understand jokes and make his own jokes! He loves Sherlock Holmes, and I could say is one of his special interests 😭💖 I feel a bit sad how he changed himself so much to be more human, but that's what he wished to (xD he's android after all, not autistic) and I'm so proud of who he became. And I can relate that too, with the masking. Sometimes I wonder if I'm still myself or if I adapted too hard to please people (ah the process of unmasking can be really hard. I'm trying to unmask and my mom says I look like a soulless person because I don't express myself like I was supposed to haha, oh well~) I hope everyone have a wonderful and sweet day :D Ah sorry if my grammar is not the best, English is not my first language and I too speak in a weird and bad grammar way in my native language xD I mix words a lot x.x
I completely agree with you! I was really into Star Trek a few years ago, and Data was by far my favourite character. As I've got older I relate more to that episode where he dates someone and masks like hell, as well. I, too, was a little sad when he got the "emotions programme" because I always got the impression that he DID feel emotion the whole time, and that they were just different from other people's (what even defines emotion, anyway?). Him changing himself almost felt like it was minimising that. I don't really consider the movies canon anyway (even if they technically are, haha).
I 100% get! When it comes to scifi, I seem to like the robot characters best xD Like Data from star trek and R2D2, BB8 and that black robot from star wars. Data is a wonderful character that I liked alot when I watched star trek over my dads shoulder ♡
I think the only “live action” autistic character that has received some good praise and I feel I should mention is Newt Scamander from Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them. He isn’t said to be autistic in the books or movies, but apparently the actor for him tried his best to represent that through this character I love what you said for Tails and good video btw :)
I didn't think about Newt - I could see that! And yes, Tails has been one of my favorites for a long time - probably will always love him. Glad you enjoyed the video!
@@chickadeestevenson5440 yeah, I’m glad the actor tried to do it on purpose himself, but I wouldn’t be able to imagine if the writers did it on purpose without the proper knowledge
Never considered Lilo being on the autistic spectrum, yet last time I watched that movie (and played the game mentioned in the video, bringing good memories) I've been very young to even know what autism is, and didn't know I was autistic myself.
I recently got properly diagnosed by several doctors (in fear I'd get the wrong diagnosis) and found out I have high-functioning autism and my goodness the realizations I experienced. Also about Music; Sia picked the child just because she sees Zeggler as her goddaughter (even if she really isn't and kinda creepy tbh). She didn't care about good autism representation. She did very little research and only talked to Autism Speak. And the disappointment I felt towards Good Doctor being so bad is vast. And the show of Big Bang Theory has stated several times that Sheldon Cooper isn't autistic; just a blunt and intelligent man who is a nerd. I would have thought about Tails being neodivergent and that's super sweet. I can't speak for the others but I learned a lot about them and this video is great.
yeah but Sheldon is autistic and so is Raj, idc what the showrunners say. And idk i like sheldon, he seems like a real person, very exaggerated but at least hes not shown as a helpless puppy like the guy from the good doctor
Sheldon isn't explicitly written as autistic but Jim Parsons has stated that he plays the character as though he is, so a lot of it really seems to come down to the writing vs the actor's vision of their character. It's even more evident in Young Sheldon, where not only is his character much more grounded, but Parsons also coaches Iain Armitage while working as an executive producer on the show.
I always thought Sheldon was meant to be the type of person who thinks they’re way more intelligent than they actually are. I never related to him because he isn’t a relatable character. He’s only relatable to the types of people who argue that you have to have a high IQ to properly understand Rick and Morty.
One of the creators wrote him to have some of his own annoying traits but exaggerated. Said creator was later diagnosed with autism. So. That's how that happened.
Really interesting examples! I notice the live action examples are mostly explicit examples of autism, whereas the animated ones are more autistic-coded. In that vein I think Star Trek has some fantastic live action autistic coded characters like 7 of 9, Data, and Odo, and the Doctor in Doctor Who might also be considered that way. I think explicitly autistic characters are often terrible because the writers are allistic and have very little first-hand experience of it and so draw on stereotypes and clinical diagnoses. Also yes I love Tails
Indeed - it also doesn't help when they specifically choose allistic actors :/ I do think if they chose folks on the spectrum, it would help a great deal. And I didn't think about Star Trek or Doctor Who! I haven't seen either, but those characters sound intriguing 🤔Regardless, thanks for taking the time to write this, Emikili! I am glad you enjoyed the video, and I am just glad to know you overall
@noahthe0tter yeah so many allistic actors playing autistic people :( It's similar with the portrayal of disabled characters. Star Trek has some of the best neurodivergent characters in media I think. Oh and I just remembered Abed from Community is pretty cool. The Big Bang Theory always bothered me for the reasons you described very well, and I never thought about Okabe being neurodivergent, I think I need to rewatch that again at some point. Thanks for taking the time to make the video and also reply ^_^ I'm glad to know you too
@@noahthe0tterI was going to point it out in my own comment but I’ll tack it on to this one since it already covers it. I second the fact that a lot of the animation uses coded character and a lot of the live action uses characters that were said in someone, said in or out of show, to be autistic and ingredient explicitly that way. I could be wrong but it seems pretty consistent between the examples you chose. I feel this in itself makes a huge difference, especially because of course characters we find and pick out to be coded are going to be more favorable since that’s why we noticed them to begin with, wether they were intended to be autistic or not they match up with it so well that we can’t ignore it- on the other hand character that are intended to be outright may line up with some of the traits but when you don’t have someone who is neurodivergent working with writing them or someone who is just extremely knowledgeable, something that is directly marketed to us to be neurodivergent is likely to fall flat.
Animation is a painstaking art form where you need to hyperfocus to create it by default, in of itself that likely draws in more ND people to the field, so better rep in animated media makes a lot of sense. (Sincerely, an autistic freelance artist and animator)
As an autistic person myself, I have a brother who is a lot like Sean Murphy. My brother will never be able to live on his own. And he needs a lot of help in his day to day life. His autism disables him to the point where he will always be a child himself. I see Sean Murphy's character as a combination of people like my brother and people who have savant talents due to their hyper-fixations. Objectively, Sean Murphy does not represent me. He does not represent most of us, but I feel he represents my brother in a kind and respectful way. I completely understand why people don't care for him, but I think his character is done well.
A genuinely amazing example of a life action depiction of autism to me is Sherlock Holmes. WAIT WAIT DON'T LEAVE I DON'T MEAN BENEDICT CUMBERBATCH. I'm talking specifically about his iteration by Jermemy Brett in the 1984 series. Holmes is shown to lack empathy, _but not compassion._ He cares deeply about others around him, he just genuinely struggles with emotional intelligence in moment to moment interactions. We're also constanlty reminded that Holme's intelligence is not some effortless supernatural ability but rather the result of INTENSE hyperfixation and extrordinary dedication to learning. He'll scrutinize one tiny detail of a case for hours on end while barely sleeping and eating, to the point where Watson has to tell him to go to bed. He even makes himself sick doing this sometimes, making him one of the only characters in general who are shown to struggle daily with executive dysfuntion. He also pretty blatently stims, having habits of singing to himself and agressivly tapping.
This might just me but as someone who major in animation (At least in my college) I noticed that there are more ND people in animation than in film major. I think the reason why so many good representation is in animations is because some people who work in animation (Or the sources material) make a character has ND traits because they are ND as well. For example is Eizouken cast has ND traits because the mangaka is has Autism and ADHD, Also Futaba (P5)'s english Va stated that she voices Futaba like she's on the spectrum.
I got diagnosed at 18 (almost a year ago). One of the ways I realised this and decided to get tested was watching cartoons with autism representation and realising I resonated with the neurodivergent characters. Many of the things they say and do are things that I myself do. That led to some realisations about myself.
As an autistic person, I really don't understand why people need to as automatically write out characters who were clearly not intended to be autistic as if they were, and picking out certain aspects of their character which fits ones understanding of autism really only ends up reinforcing the already existing stereotypes of autism as if someone who is somewhat outside the norm or is quirky MUST be autistic when such traits are actually pretty common for many people and might push people to think they might have serious signs of autism for completely neurotypical behaviours.
As someone who’s diagnosed with Asperger, I agree that characters that share similar trait to what autistic people can relate doesn’t necessarily mean they have to confirm they are one. Looking back, Superman from Man of Steel felt personal to me because he was an alien to Earth. Not just literally but even metaphorically. He doesn’t understand the people around him and has strong sensory but he has live on regardless. Even though Superman is not autistic, the traits he has is something I can feel like “I know this experience.”
@@tornadodee148 I think there's merit to that idea, I see fiction like movies, games and shows as doll sets for fans to play with as they will, but at the same time, I notice a lot of radical fans tend to take their own headcannons way too seriously and become incredibly obnoxious as if it's canon and then start fight with people who don't agree with them or interpret/identify with the story and characters differently as if they were discriminatory and "bad people", and thus it can end up leading to more harm than good. Instead of trying to find characters in mainstream media to identify with, we and other minorities should be making our OWN media by and for US rather than trying to fit ourselves into the same generic content not made for us, but by and for big corporations which at very most inauthentically appeal to general audiences with their content, and which most often don't care in the slightest for our stories to share, much less our welfare.
I think L from Death Note is autistic as well, he's one of my favorite anime characters since I relate to him in the social aspect. He's such a sweet character and is insanely brilliant, yet is definitely lacking in the social skills department and he is perfectly content with it
I’m pretty sure he’s not autistic. The Japanese are not as accepting of mental illness or disabilities, especially not 15+ years ago when Deathnote was made. The likelihood of making an autistic main character is extremely low. I’m sure there’s creator interviews that you could look up if he speaks about L having any mental disabilities of any kind though. The Japanese just like to make quirky characters lol. There’s at least one in every series.
@IliciaRodriguez0408 Just because it may not have been on purpose doesn't mean that L isn’t deeply autism-coded within canon. Also, just because a culture isn’t accepting of mental illness or disability doesn’t mean they don’t have people with those traits within their society. It is not uncommon to portray mental illness/disability within manga/anime even without meaning it.
He's not officially autistic only because if he was, it would be offensive lol He is literally the combination of all the worst stereotypes, but yeah "he's not canonically autistic" so no one can tell them that he's a bad representation of autistic people "because he's not one"
Well im pretty sure they did not intend to write him as autisic at all. Just that people thought that's what they were going for. It's likely they just took some dumb traits for a character archtype and people thought they were trying to make him autisic, but likely they weren't
@@therani9600 Well we can't just say they wrote him to be autistic if we have no real proof. I think if they said they didn't intend for him to be autistic then let's just take that at face value.
I'm not a Big Bang Theory fan either but from a performance perspective Sheldon's actor is a bit of a powerhouse in being able to communicate the character's autism. Sure, he has interest in surface level pop culture "nerd" things, but thats just the need for the show. He is an avenue for older viewers and science enthusiasts to see people in 'nerd-om' (of the time the show was at its most popular). I completely disagree that non-autistuc people can't play autism. Many talented people have done it well. I feel Max from Where the Wild Things Are has some implied 'tism/growing pains in there. Another Max from Parenthood is right on the money as well with his performance And then there's that one Onion bit with "Autistic man discovers prison" or whatever, which is a pretty lovingly goofy idea, and the actor does great at it. That Music character's issue is that the actress doesn't know enough about the micro body language of autistic people, so yeah, she instead makes dumb faces that don't at all look authentic.
I was early diagnosed with autism (3-5). To anyone who wants to showcase autism in media: *make several characters with autism* Why?: because we don’t all stim the same, we don’t all have high math/science skills, we aren’t all nonverbal, we don’t all avoid eye contact, we aren’t all taught the same by our family and… we aren’t all the same.
@@callmecloudy6225 Well, something I have to say is... I have BOTH Autism and ADHD. And I want to write a character with both Autism and ADHD for my show. How can I make a good representation for someone who has both ADHD and Autism? (If you don't know yourself then that's fine)
@@lilysamvelian9970 I don't have much experience with ADHD. But, with an open-ended question like that, and as you have both, I think experience coupled with research would be the best answer. All I know is that autism includes laser focusing, while ADHD includes jumping around different things
@@callmecloudy6225 Well, I have been into researching neurodiversity lately (including both ADHD and Autism) And from my own personal experience, it takes me a few months to switch interests, but I do switch eventually, only to turn back to my previous interests, (after some months, sometimes even after some YEARS) And I also walk around while fidgeting, or as I walk, my walking turns into running (well...at least it boosts my thought and imagination lol) I, as an individual, also RARELY have outbursts, but I know it CAN happen to me when I'm trapped in a situation that I can't get myself out of But hey, I'm happy to see that I might already be on the right track!
I'm fairly certain that many of Disney's Renaissance princesses are on the spectrum. A lot of them have interests that set them apart from the crowd, and they have a tendency to isolate themselves because they don't much in common with the others. I personally resonate with Mulan, she spends the bulk of the film trying to figure out how to act in a socially acceptable way, whether its with the matchmaker or in the army, and while her family might chastise her for having her head in the clouds, they don't give her a hard time for her social failings either.
Not convinced Lilo is autistic since we're talking about 2 kids, Lilo who is like 6-7 and Nani who is 18-19, who both lost their parents and now Nani has to be the adult while putting aside her grief by trying to be there for Lilo. Lilo is just a lonely kid and the only other kids we've seen is just Myrtle and her kiss-ass friends. She doesn't really have anyone to talk too.
Plus it doesn’t help that Myrtle is classist. She mocks Lilo for her rag doll. It’s definitely evident that Lilo and a Nani are scraping by and Myrtle comes from a well off family.
@@elysiabarr425 I can't believe it JUST occurred to me that they're poor. Nani can't get a job and Lilo is threatened to being taken away yet I didn't put 2+2 together. 😅🤣
@@mrpickles-hb6zx In fairness this is do to them losing their parents and not a series of bad decisions and with the setting being Hawaii, IMO, having money doesn't seem as important as other parts of the USA since Hawaii is IMO a chill state to just relax and hang loose.😅
I feel like a lot of people misinterpret autism as inhibiting the ability to feel emotions when it's really inhibiting the processing and expressing of emotion. Also with cartoon characters, you can't fuck it up by casting a non autistic actor, and the exaggerated nature of cartoons make it easier to embrace the differences of neurodivergent people.
I don't know if this was already recommended but the live-action movie Temple Grandin felt like a really heartfelt representation of autism based on a the story of a real autistic woman's life, challenges, and accomplishments (this is coming from someone who isn't on the spectrum though). Would recommend!
Most of the plot surrounds her trying to get through school and about her farming inventions. Her becoming an advocate for autism doesn't really show up until the very end. It shows her as a complete human being with her own interests and capabilities -- not simply defined by her autism though it is a part of who she is and why she can do some of the things she can.
@wyltedleaves I know what coding is. I don't think that was accurate. Lilo is just a weird little girl with no friends. That doesn't mean she has a whole azz mental illness
@wyltedleaves There's no concrete evidence that the writers coded Lilo to fall under a mental disorder. There is only speculation based off of a few correlations that some people with the condition find relatable. And ending your comment with "thanks" makes you sound unnecessarily smug.
Many autistic kids have no friends _because_ other kids clock them as 'weird' and reject them for being different. You can see why Lilo doesn't have friends in the movie: her interests are alien to them, and when she's mocked for being weird, she doesn't have the social skills to keep it verbal.
This is a beautifully put together video and I agree with everything said. I'm not diagnosed with autism or other neurological conditions, so I don't know how it feels to ppl who are, but personally it always makes me happy seeing (well portrayed) neurodivergent characters in media. I have an autistic oc I hope to write properly, so seeing the opinions of someone in the spectrum is useful for that because I don't know any autistic ppl irl. Also not rlly important but I love the inclusion of Donnie clips even if he wasn't talked about, he's my favorite character ever
Thank you so much for taking the time to say this! I'm glad you enjoyed this video, it makes me happy to see it's making an impact for others. And I actually did cover Donnie in the follow up video that released today!
A lot of the media I enjoy doesn't have explicit autism representation and if they do then it's most likely unintentional. A lot of characters I see as Autistic are ones I see myself in such as Homestar Runner, Juice, Strong Sad, Dr. Boris Habit, ETC.
Oh thank goodness somebody other than me is thinking this. Whenever I thought of autistic characters in media that aren't offensive stereotypes, I always thought of characters from video games or animated shows.
Great video!! The first few seconds were such a jumpscare for me cause I'm a huge RotTMNT fan lol. I can only assume you were using Donnie as a way to show good autistic rep in animation, which is so true. I love Donnie so much. Funnily enough is that the show writer has said a few times that Donnie is somewhat inspired by Sheldon from Big Bang theory. It's interesting how they were inspired by such a negative representation of autism and somehow came out with such a positive one. It might be due to kinda having to give him more personality outside of "nerd" as he is one of the four main characters? Idk, I just find it kind of funny. Wish you touched a little on Rise's representation but I understand why you didn't.
Donnie is a FANTASTIC autism rep - especially as someone who was diagnosed a number of years ago now, I am loving seeing all these positive examples appear in animated media
Wasn’t he based on Abed from Community too? (don’t quote me on that I’m pulling this from the depths of my memory, I probably got the characters name wrong😅)
I think a good live action interpretation of autism of all places comes from the series The Chosen. These series focuses on the drama of Jesus and his disciples, one of which is Matthew the tax collector. Now religious affiliation aside, this is a really good show and Matthew a really great character in it and the actor really does a good job making Matthew probably the most relatable member of the cast as he’s a guy who wants a comfortable life but is often isolated by his family and society and then for his self betterment he decides to leave the life for a new one where he has to live less comfortably and try to be more social with others, many who dislike him just because of his past as a tax collector which makes him trying to be more social all the more difficult. If you haven’t watched this show check it out, you may find it really enjoyable and Matthew’s a great character in it
i am not completely austistic, but i found the best way to represent them is to relate to them, many times i thought myself as one because alot of similarity. i think alot of my imagination, i obsses over stuff and don't like eye contact completely. also my friend that in the austism spectrum is pretty much normal with some differences. so yeah, it's pretty much relate and listen to represent
@@noahthe0tter I get it now. Personally I like her music. I don't know why she made this movie, but she really screwed up by not hiring an actual person with autism or ND. Hollywood always takes the easy way out when it comes to picking actors who have to portray some people. It cannot be that difficult to do the right thing. Just them being lazy and in turn disrespectful like you said and that in turn makes everyone hate what they made even more.
What makes me sad is that I heard that the actress actually cried or something because she felt that she was making fun of autistic ppl with the portrayal, she didn't want to make fun of them... she had so much pressure put on her for no reason :(
Murdoch Mysteries is my favorite live-action autism rep I've seen recently. It's a canadian period crime series, and there are three characters in the main cast who are autistic, and they are all very different from each other. The first is the main character, Detective William Murdoch, who has kinda the most "stereotypical" traits (logical, not very emotional, genius, has strict weird habits, does not understand social clues at times, etc), but he is also a relatable, fleshed out character. Someone who, tho tries to always stick to the order of the law and God and never lie, from season to season has to question and redefine his beliefs. He has many flaws as well, like being too traditional at times or having a hard time facing his mistakes. The second one is Constable George Crabtree, William's colleague and best friend. He is a high-masking autistic, who is very chatty and tries to always make a good impression on people. He is the type who wants to be seen as "normal", but once he trusts someone and feels comfortable around them, his "weird" side comes out. And from then on he never shuts up about UFOs, ghosts, vampires, zombies; he has an amazing imagination and also wrote multiple fantasy/sci-fi books. The third is Detective Llewellyn Watts, who is first introduced in season 10. He has both autism and ADHD. He has a lot of obvious "strange" behaviors from the way he speaks, walks, sits, or gestures with his hand. He is quite a hot mess most of the time, he's unorganized, impulsive, or even random... with Llewellyn, you'll never know the next thing he's gonna say. But despite his clumsiness or messiness, he's never seen as less competent than anyone else on the show. He is just as intelligent as William, but with totally opposite ways of doing so. The two didn't really like each other as well when they first met, and it took some time to adjust to each other's habits. Llewellyn is also very very socially sensitive and has a strong interest in philosophy and different religions, cultures, languages, and foods from around the world. What I like the most about the autism rep in this show, is that 1, it shows totally different types of autism, not just one. 2, that it does it really naturally, and no character feels overdone, or a caricature of autism. The actors, writers, and directors really did an amazing job. 3, all of these characters are shown as independent, competent adults, none of them are patronized. And while yes, the people around them do think they are a little... odd..., their surroundings still respect them and listen to them (big thanks on that to the Inspector, who always takes them seriously, even when he thinks their logic doesn't make any sense). One thing I will critique tho is the lack of female autistic characters in the main or even the support cast. There are female autistic episode characters, but none appear again in the show. Which bothers me, since the series is filled with strong, intelligent, amazing women, and even women of color, so it would be nice to see an autistic and/or ADHD woman as a recurring character. On this note, the feminist and LGBTQ+ representation is really good there imo, as someone from both of those groups. And the racial rep seems well-done too, altho I can't speak from personal experience on that.
I agree, but for animation you only really listed characters who are suspected to have autism, while the live action characters are mostly confirmed to have autism. I feel like this extra factor messes with the way we perceive this situation as any “bad representation” characters who aren’t confirmed are just swept under the rug.
Not to mention, Lilo is specifically _the_ human because almost everyone else is an alien. This portrays autism as being a normal trait for people to be, and not one that makes someone inhuman.
Nice, I kind of thought of your conclusion as to the reason why too. Even in the case of more modern animation where where the animators watch the actors perform to gain some visual insight in how they want to animate the scene, it's not a 1 to 1 of an actor or director in real life trying to ham up a performance that they really don't understand in the first place.
0:16, to be fair to the writers of The Big Bang Theory, they didn’t intend for Sheldon to be an Autistic character even though he ended up coming across as Autistic (including to Jim Parsons.)
I think Osaka in Azumanga Daioh is a good representation of autism even though it's never confirmed that she has it. She's quiet, ditzy and is prone to daydreaming, but can also be oddly philosophical and creative. She's bad at studying and misses a lot of obvious social cues, but excels at riddles because she thinks differently than most people. What's really nice is that Osaka isn't even treated that differently by any of her friends; they just accept her for who she is even when they can't understand what she's thinking (which happens a lot to a comedic degree).
As someone who is autistic I agree of what you said and I can relate the struggles Osaka face in school, since I struggle and getting confused, ditzy and zoning out in random situations at school and social skills when I was much younger. but I also good at learning new skills and hyperactive to remember some important topic I might need, most people may not understand how I feel or not see how I see, they still treat me like am a normal person. that why i like Osaka because she so relatable to me and am glad that most fiction characters in animation are show the right representation of autism. 😊
A korean drama I watched called "It's okay to not be okay" has literally one of my favorite autistic representation in media, being autistic myself (Diagnosed at 3) I found myself loving the character named Sang-Tae, one of the most positive autistic characters I've seen in quite a while, very relatable too since reminded me a lot of myself.
I was looking for a comment talking about him! I don't know if I'm neutorypical or neurodivergent, the people around me constently tell me contradictory opinions, so I don't think I'm in a good place to be critical about the character, but I think he's a really good character. He's not just an autistic guy thrown into the show to be a problem to the mc or to be funny, he actually gets character developement and feels like an actual person with interests, dislikes and a personality. I've heard that Oh Jung-Se (the actor, and my favorite actor) did a lot of research for the character (manerism, speech, ect.) and I'm very glad he did. Weirdly enough, a lot of the tricks he uses in the show (butterfly hug, 3 second trick) help me a lot in my day to day life
@@OkabrineKanahap You pretty much perfectly explained why I love his character, one of my favorite scenes with him is when he covers up the Vietnam veteran after his PTSD is triggered to calm him down, the same way Gang-tae did for him earlier in the show. That's character development at its finest.
Lilo I very much believe because her development into later movies and the tv series is very much like what I experienced growing up. In the tv show, she's shown to start becoming more self conscious of how she looks towards others and really believes her bullies are friends that are just mad at her for messing up. She's also started showing signs of masking. Not helping are the adults in her life who frequently minimize the problems she's dealing with because they think she's just being a quirky child again and they think that means they don't have to take her seriously. I rewatched the series recently and I felt so bad for the poor girl because I remember suppressing myself at that age for other peoples sake. It did some serious damage to my mental health and self esteem later in life.
I feel like a good representation in live action is the Stalker from Tarkovsky’s “Stalker” released in 1979, I’ve just always resonated with him and his hyper fixation of Venerating the Zone and of trying to make others happy at the expense of his own safety and marriage.
I concur with a lot of this! I also wonder if maybe animations better for autistic folks because of some folks trouble with eye contact? In my experience, I end up chafing with real life eye contact, but dont mind drawing eyes or expressions or anything. But i concur with your thoughts on overexagguration.
What music gets so wrong is that when it comes to autism, your brain just simply works differently. I’m on a different wavelength from other people, but I’m not in a more regressed state like a young child. Music acts very infantile, she has little coherent thought, and is made to be a difficulty for everyone else. While people with autism like me can make issues, people with autism still have a degree of awareness, especially if they’re musics age
Yeah, from my experience in multiple autistic friend groups (diagnosed lmao, not insulting, clarifying because it’s an unfortunately common way to read this kind of comment), the thing I thought of when reading this comment was how perhaps people see autistic people as children is because they ‘behave childishly’ because that’s a social thing, and then incorrectly assume that their behaviours indicate cognitive ability because they can’t separate the two. I’m not diagnosed at all and don’t claim to be autistic, but it’s something that I’ve noticed when seeing these weird depictions and knowing they’re nothing like my friends. For example, adults socially tend to ‘grow up’ and enjoy their interests to a ‘reasonable, socially acceptable extent’, so people openly being very enthusiastic about a hyperfixation is the same way a child acts around something they enjoy. Being very open about their excitement/enjoyment, open with their disappointment, very blunt with conveying things/feeling emotions, making weird noises because they’re funny, etc. are all ‘childish’, all things my friends do (when they’re comfortable in the friend group and not masking) but they’re all still emotionally mature and developed people, they still understand as much as I do. Honestly, I really like spending time with them because I get to be more open too. But hey, Sia worked with AutismSpeaks, who advocate eugenics and spread fears of autism, so I’m really not surprised how that movie turned out.
7:26, I know a lot people (myself included) think of Sheldon as Autistic but it’s still worth mentioning that the character was not written to be Autistic
Lilo and Stitch has always been one of my favorite movies. I saw myself so much in Lilo. As an Autistic person, the scene where Lilo shows Scrump to the other girls and they ditch her, made me very emotional because I have been ditched by so many people who I thought were my friends because I was too "weird".
i never really read Lilo as autistic, but oddly enough she was also one of the few characters i intuitively vibed with.. she just felt _normal_ to me in a way? and now i can't unsee it. also, as someone who is a rather sociable and at times outright extroverted autistic person i really like that representation. it's not that showing struggles with human interaction wasn't valid, but i've come to know a couple people who do not struggle with understanding the rules but the onslaught of emotions and just sensory input is always so hard to deal with and i would like that being shown more often, and maybe more often explicitly labelled as autism bc that would have helped me understand my waaaaay earlier.
i've seen several reactions of the big bang theory, and while sheldon is meant to be a quirky character that's played for laughs, i enjoy him for that. plus, he does have human moments, like his relationship with his girlfriend and his friends.
On the video game side of things my favorite example of autistic headcanon would probably be doomguy. He doesn’t talk much, doesn’t understand social conventions and even actively works against them, has hyperfixations on typical nerd shit and guns, and is asexual.
There is also an animated gem of a movie called Mary and Max. It's about an autistic old man living in New York who writes pen pal letters to a little girl in Australia. It's a really sweet and heart warming movie that made me tear up at the end.
I’ve been autistic for awhile this video stood out to me because it showed that I’m not alone. I’ve been depicted as a sped by my people for the things I love and the classes I’ve been in I also been beaten up for it. But even if that happened to me all these years I’m still myself regardless. Tails Stood out for me because I’ve always wanted to fly when I was younger but I never got the chance so seeing him fly around really fast and doing all the crazy stuff makes me stim a lot. Sometimes when I’m stressed I usually talk to myself out loud on the things I like and people think I’m crazy for that but that’s how I cope with things. I hope people understand that I’ve been on the spectrum and do things that showcases it.
I don't usually comment on videos. But the YT algorithm recommended me this and upon seeing Tails I was completely hooked. I watched though the entire video and it was honestly a good analysis of how animation portrays autism and neurodivergency better than live action. I myself have autism and do agree with your points on Lilo and Tails. I am a huge Sonic fan as well and I can totally relate to Tails in a way since Sonic is one of my favorite characters and I've looked up to him the most as a kid, similar to how Tails did upon first meeting him. Especially with Lilo being obsessed with Elvis since I myself am obsessed with old vintage things like old school NES or other past decades like the 20s or 50s. It kind of shocks me that animation can portray autism a whole lot than live action since I think with animation, it expresses more to younger audiences who could relate to being in those characters shoes while also the fact that animation can be very expressive to a wide variety of audiences in different ways than live action. Maybe it's also because with animation they're just moving drawings with varied designs ranging from cartoony to realistic that people tend to forget it isn't real life. But with live action, it is real life, and we see people acting out a character which can also vary depending on the writing and acting of said person. So yeah, sorry for the long comment here but I just want to give out some of my small thoughts to a great video! This gets a like and a subscribe for me. Thank you and have a great day!
Thank you for taking the time to type this out!! I was glad to read that this video made such an impact for you! It seems it's catching a lot of people's attention in a good way, which I am really glad to see. It's something I think often needs more attention, so I'm glad to see lots of great discussion in this comments section! Thanks friendo
@@mrpickles-hb6zx Reword your sentence, it implies autistic people aren't normal, i know you don't imply that but it could rub off the wrong way to others..
@@erm_what_the_spruce I assume it’s because of how lilo is seen as “weird” by the other girls, how she has a hyperfixation on Elvis Presley, and how she follows a routine religiously. Tails though? Not sure, maybe someone else can explain
That Tails one really stood out to me. I'm glad I'm finally seeing that I'm not the only one who loves Tails because of his character like this. Tails is most definitely my favorite character to exist, and as an autistic person myself with a upsetting childhood like his, Tails has inspired me in many ways and seems so relatable, especially when it comes to being bullied for being different or smart. He's, like you said, strong, loyal, and smart, and because of all the thought put into making Tails and everything he is, that is why Tails is my favorite character EVER. Thank you.
No wonder I loved Tails in the Sonic franchise, and the film Lilo & Stitch, they both were so relatable to me, cause I myself am Autistic. I've exhibited many of the traits both Lilo & Tails have had in their characters, being hyper focused on various things, and being talented as well as creative.
Two relatable live-action representations that I can think of are Moss and possibly Rory from The IT Crowd. I found that I shared many traits with both of these characters.
My favorite character who is autistic is Marcy from Amphibia. I’m surprised for a bad example of an autistic character is that kid from (2016 or 18) the Predator movie. Stating that autism is just a step forward in human evolution.
Oh man I'd almost forgotten about the Predator kid. The worst part is when the kid accidentally kills a guy and just doesn't care. What a mess of a film
One of my favorite characters was recently confirmed to be autistic by the creator. That being Mini from Cool Kid Cody. Mini was a girl born Average with her twin brother Cody. Their parents, Katy and Nori, were born a Cool Kid and a Loser respectively. However, they averaged out. One day in 1998, Katy and Nori would be banned, leading to Mini and Cody being abandoned before being found by G-Ma. She told them that their parents died. Mini was believed to be born a Loser after this, which led to her being bullied a lot. Cody often comforted her and hung out with her, but he was believed to be born a Cool Kid. This made G-Ma treat them MUCH differently, with Mini being neglected, Cody being treated like a God-in-training, and both of them being verbally abused (although that was mostly Mini who suffered from that). This got worse during middle school. Luckily, Mini DID have a best friend... Juvie! Juvie's usually pretty mean, but they're way softer with Mini. They have the most obvious crush on her, it's painful... Eventually, Mini started to get jealous of Cody and ran away some time in 2007. Everyone believed she was dead until they found out, 6 years later, that she LITERALLY OWNED THE SCHOOL THEY WENT TO... There's a LOT more to the story, buttttt it'll be WAYYY too long. I'll add some random scenes with her in the replies. She's my favorite character and I relate to her soooo muchhhh
The first movie that ever helped me actually understand what autism is was Temple Grandin, based on a real autistic person (Temple Grandin), who gave her blessing to the movie and actress that portrayed her, last I read. Give it a watch, I think it was really good c:
When I first watched Rise, Donnie was my instant favorite. I didn't know why but I connected with him the most. Later I found out I was autistic, and then I found out Donnie was autistic. So it makes sense now and it's nice to see some decent rep.
I'm pretty sure Lilo and Stitch takes place in the 60's or 70's based on the fashion and the cars. Also, Lilo being autistic could explain why I resignated with her and her interest in all things Elvis Presley. Like me and my little sister understood Lilo and stuff.
You know I was genuinely surprised when you brought up Tails... I never connected the dots before, but yeah I can see it! Funny enough, Sonic himself does sometimes show very ADHD-like traits in a lot of the more comical Sonic media (like Sonic Boom and the Sonic Movie for example).
After finding out that Tails is autistic, it makes me even more sad that he shot Cosmo at the end of the Metarex Saga of Sonic X because it could have affected him greatly.
Kid Danger: *wearing his mighty pup movie outfit* I have to be 100% honest with ya..... as a pony who has autism and I never knew that SOME animation characters who have autism. I understand that Rise Donnie who I lean on because of the fact i like him.
There's a show called criminal minds and one of the characters named Spencer Reid shows many autistic traits and the actor Matthew gray Gubler as mentioned how he also noticed his traits and I noticed that the whole criminal minds fandom basically head cannons him as autistic and there's quite a few videos that go in debt on his traits
As an autistic person, I personally don't have a problem with The Good Doctor. Then again, I'm only on season 1, which doesn't give me much to go off of, but I'm enjoying it right now :) I once heard that autism can't always be portrayed accurately in media because autism is different for everyone. I believe this to be true, which is why I don't have any ill feelings towards shows like The Good Doctor. While I find Music to be insulting, I haven't picked up on any serious offences in The Good Doctor yet I do understand your point on how animated autistic characters are portrayed differently from live action ones. It makes sense how voice actors don't have to make overexaggerated gestures to get the point across I think my favorite animated autistic characters are Hunter from The Owl House and Tina from Bob's Burgers 💕
I don't think I have any words to say This was a fantastic analysis of autism and I hope you are doing well mate. Btw I plan on watching Steins Gate tonight when I go to my grandma's house
Thanks Trouge!! I'm really glad you thought it was that good! I was pretty nervous about making it, so I'm glad it's good 😊 and I am good, thank you!! And yayyy! I hope you love Stein's;Gate 💚🦦
Honestly characters particularly animated head cannon neurodivergent coded characters that weren’t even explicitly/intentionally made to be autistic do a better job at representing autism and neurodiversity better than a lot of shows/movies that have characters that were explicitly meant to be autistic. As an autistic girl, now woman, lilo always resonated with me. Lilo and stitch is one of my favorite movies of all time and the fact that lilos autistic coded makes me love the series even more. While I do agree animation does a better job at representing autism there are some live action example of autistic coded characters in live action shows that are really great characters. Specifically a lot of nbc shows such as parks and recreation, the office, Brooklyn nine nine and community.
I finally got around to this! I do appreciate the nod to Lilo, as she was one of the first characters I attached myself to. I do think it’s interesting though that your three animated examples aren’t canon, while your live actions ones are (I think Sheldon is? I’ve heard conflicting things but I ain’t watching BBT). With that said, I do think there’s bad examples of animated autism (as discussed in my video) and good examples of live action ones (like Abed from Community), it just varies a lot
I agree! It DOES vary a lot, in all honesty. I do think though, in animation, good examples tend to be more plentiful, but live action has some solid ones. I was suggested a lot, Abed being one of them, and also Temple Grandin, Quorra from Tron Legacy, and some others I covered in a more recent video.
I'm branching a bit into speculation here from my own experience reading and attempting to write fiction with cerebral palsy (which I have myself) in it, but I wonder if the distinction between explicit and implicit representation is also significant. Of the live action characters mentioned, each has been directly identified by the writer as autistic, which leads them to attempt to make whatever they think autism is visible and obvious to the audience (leading to exaggerated portrayals of symptoms which don't connect to the wider experience of the world). In contrast, the implicit representations are all examples where the writers have focused on the character's experience of the world and the challenges they face within it, leading to integrated and complex personalities, which flow together. So when these characters are interpreted or recognised as autistic, it's because their characterisation does the work, rather than the author trying to impose that interpreation on the audience (show don't tell, really, but also a demonstration that the interaction with the world is more essential than a list of symptoms or stock tropes... And also probably a selection bias, since the characters who aren't implicitly coded autistic well, don't get recognised as an attempt as much, which skews the results towards stronger examples, but I think that's likely minor). I think was really well demonstrated to me by the book Slug Queen Chronicles. It similarly never explicitly identifies the protagonistic as autistic, but this means the audience's focus is on how she experiences the world, rather than on checking off boxes on a diagnosis list, and we don't end up reading Cricket as 'other' in the same way we're encouraged too with Sheldon (where half of the joke relies on the audience viewing themselves as different from him). This also reminds me of a quote Sydney Zarlengo brought up about the way the exaggerated nature of the theatre has a tendency to make all protagonists come of as neurodivergent. I wonder if the same impulse is impacting cartoons, because the lesser drive to be 'realistic' pushes writers less towards allotistic notions of normalacy.
oh wow, i just watched lilo and stitch recently. didn't even cross my mind that she could have been neurodivergent. did think she was extremely weird though
I don't like it when characters that haven't explicitly been referred to as autistic in the story they appear are tagged with this label. It comes off like a simplification, like "this character is x now".
I understand what you're saying I'm on the spectrum myself, so I like the fact that you're trying to get everyone to understand what they're all should be understanding.
My sister and I grew up in the 80s and 90s, so we really didn't have any Autistic representation, back then. If you grew during either of these decades, your Autistic representation was mostly the 1980s movie Rain Man, with Tom Cruise and Dustin Hoffman, where Hoffman played a man with Autism and Cruise played his brother. While the movie was very sweet and touching, and was also an Oscar winner, besides that piece of media, we didn't have much else to go on. I remember there being a movie called The Boy Who Could Fly, which was released during the 80s. It was about a very quiet boy, in fact, he was the titular character, and he loved a beautiful girl. This was supposedly the only other Autism representation we had. As a woman on the Spectrum, I don't feel like there are a lot of characters that I can relate to, with the majority of them being male. However, I do write stories, so sometimes it feels like I need to create characters, that feel like I can have someone to relate to. Mostly, what helps is the support of family and friends. So, if you feel underrepresented, make sure that you at least have a strong support system.
I'd be curious about your opinion on the characters Rick Sanchez (Rick and Morty) and Reagan Ridley (Inside Job) as other animated portrayals of autism. They're fairly similar which is why I pair them together, but I think they do a good job at showcasing autistic traits within a unique and fleshed out character.
Apparently, Sia tried to have actual autistic actors, but they were too difficult to work with Also, the actress that played Music is reported to have broke in tears the first day doing rehearsals, scared that people would think she* was purposely mocking autistic people Also, two years later, Sia revealed that she was autistic... and attempted suicides over criticisms of her movie *It's ambiguous if the actress was talking about herself or Sia
Lilo has always been my favorite character, but I never really stopped to ask myself why. This video helped me understand why I connect with her so much, Thank you 😊
I would be interested in seeing a comparison of sheldon from the big bang theory and sheldon from Young Sheldon about representation. It's not perfect, but I think the portrayal in young sheldon seems to be an improvement (big bang theory set the bar very low, so I know that's not saying much) I just found your channel today, have been enjoying the videos. Would love to hear your thoughts!
Not on board with your Lilo and Tails diagnosis but if you believe they can be used as something to characterize fictional autistic characters after then sure because the mainstream media definetly still has leaps and bounds to go when it comes to representing people with mental health issues of all classifications.
I agree. Lilo seems more of just a peculiar child. She's meant to stand out from the norm a bit compared to the others, especially her classmates because it works for the movie, but that doesn't mean an ASD diagnosis.
I'm very thankful this video was made! Before this, I could never put a pin on why I absolutely hated the autistic representation in things like Music and The Good Doctor (even after seeing other videos on them) and yet I tend to find so many of my own autistic traits in animated characters. It's really funny how the live action characters are more "exaggerated" than the actual cartoons.
When it comes to live action, I think Lt. Commander Data does a better job acting like someone with Asperger's Syndrome than Sheldon. I know he's an android, but still.
Can I ask your opinion on a question of representation? For the record, I'm not autistic, but I work with autistic children. I've often noticed that the representations that are most positively received tend to be characters with level 1 autism. They're fully verbal. They struggle with some aspects of day-to-day life, but mostly get along with only a low level of support. On the other hand, characters with level 3 autism (like the infamous Music) tend to be overplayed, stereotypical, and offensive. Do you have any thoughts on (or know any examples of) good representation of characters with level 3 autism? Most of the kids I work with are level 3, and I wish there were shows and movies where they could see themselves represented. It would be wonderful to see good portrayals of characters who talk through an AAC device or a PECS book. Or to see characters using visual schedules and sensory tools to navigate their day. The Pixar short "Loop" was very well-done, but it's the only example I know of, and it's only a few minutes long. It doesn't have the time to go in-depth.
This is a really difficult one for media to tackle properly imo - I have definitely seen level 1 be the most positively received and well portrayed, like you said. Things like Radio, Music, and others all miss the mark for this - I think Loop is a good one, but I really feel like media has not quite figured out how to show this in a respectful light. However - I think a good workaround, at least until this is done well, is to perhaps show your students movies or shows where characters are communicating with limited dialogue, but still shown positively. Things like Wall E especially. For especially sensory films - I recommend It's Such a Beautiful Day by Don Hertzfeldt
Agreed! A ton of "normies" have absolutely no idea how to autism right. It doesn't help that animation is the least respected medium of film making, in the eyes of the big studio execs at least... so in a way, it makes the studios and actors portraying neurodivergent people, ESPECIALLY autistic people, come off as ableist if anything, even if it is unintentional. I say either the studios do their homework and do neurodivergency correctly, or don't at all! It isn't that hard!
Heartbreak High has great live action autistic rep in the character Quinn, who is played by an autistic actress. I also love that her character isn't completely one-note. She has some over sensory moments and "quirky" hyper fixations but we also get to see how she supports her friends and how she navigates dating and romantic relationships.
i never interpreted lilo as being autistic! this video is really great. the surgeon guy is so damn awful and i don’t think anyone takes him seriously because of how poorly they portrayed him. also, congrats on 1k subs! hope you’re doing well!!
![ไข้ขึ้นเลย! เมื่อแฝดโดนจัดเต็มวัคซีนครบ2เดือน🤒 [cc] แดนแพทตี้ SS2 | EP.54 |](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/z2VHItnyyvY/mqdefault.jpg)
Did you enjoy this video? What would you like to see covered next?🤔Lemme know in the comments 👇🏻
That is amazing!@@jessegartung294
It's good to see a fellow autistic running their own TH-cam channel. And I have one thing to say, partner: fantastic job! Looking forward to more
When you were talking about your live-action examples done poorly, I was expecting you to mention Ray Babbitt from Rain Man. While it was positively received back in the day (to the point where the actor who played him, Dustin Hoffman, won the Oscar for Best Actor), nowadays, it has garnered some backlash for popularizing the "autistic savant" trope.
@@o0OJOLONO0o I've never seen Rain man, come to think of it!
@@noahthe0tter I don't think the two examples of autism, seen between Lilo and Music, are right and wrong; to me, I see the former as high-functioning, and the latter as low-functioning; however, that doesn't mean the angle that the live-action stuff are going for is sensible. Trust me, as a high-functioning person that was once sent to a school for low-functioning people, it's about as annoying as the live-action films going that direction.
I'll be honest...as someone who was diagnosed with autism in their adulthood. I completely thought Lilo was a normal kid because I acted a lot like her.
Omg me too
Oh shucks, same! I wondered what the other girls' problems were.
me too,
anyone else picking up a pattern here? xD
Same lol
Same, man.
Im autistic myself (was diagnosed at 5) and as a kid, I remember the scene where Lilo is showing Scrump to her classmates, only for them to ditch her, it hit close to home for me. To this day i still get a bit emotional with that scene (as weird as it sounds)
Not weird at all! Lilo & Stitch is a movie I get emotional at a lot myself, for reasons exactly like this
I always wondered why they ran away as a kid i think i even told my mom "why did they run off? That's kinda mean she made a doll" my mom tried to tell me but i couldn't understand it she was doing what they wanted....
I always wondered why i felt so connected to lilo until i finally got diagnosed with autistim and relized "holy shit she's autistic"
@@artsyscrub3226Sounds like projecting.
I was also diagnosed at 5. I went to therapy for social skills like making eye contact, but overall I was extremely high functioning and very observant of other people so I learned quickly. Throughout elementary school I was bullied not really for the way I acted, but because I always sat at the “special ed table” with the same 2 kids year after year who were much worse off on social skills than I was. Since I was “in that group” and was really the only one to understand fully their passive aggressive pranks and slander of us and reacted to it strongly with anger, they picked on me quite a bit. I then had anger issues that I had to go to therapy for, but they didn’t realize that it was me taking out my anger towards my family at home and that I was actually being bullied. I saw the videos on bullying every year but was too afraid to tell anyone because it was most of the grade bullying me and my friends (the other special ed children in and outside of my class that I played with at recess). In the videos they only ever showed a small group of bullies, so I always wondered if I was being bullied or if I wasn’t because there were too many people for it to be bullying. I didn’t want to tell anyone for fear of being wrong. I highly related to Lilo’s temper tantrums and locking herself in her room to be left alone and do things she’s interested in to cope and distract herself.
@@SiresOrbwits-oi8mz what do you mean by that?
Donnie from rottmnt is my fav example of autism rn. He has alot of the "stereotypical" autism traits. He is logical and snarky tech savi, he often states that he is smarter than his brothers, he is literal and has problems with his tone, he experiences low empathy and can often come across as he doesn't care. Despite this he still is written amazingly and 3 dimensional. Unlike other versions he isn't just the tech guy and he has multiple special interests such as dancing, video games musical theatre (ok technically not Canon but he's the biggest theatre kid I've ever seen) jupiter jim etc. He has alot of sensory issues especially regarding his soft shell. None of his issues are considered flaws to overcome but more problems he has to face. I love how his arc doesn't directly connect to his autism but his separate flaws and insecurities. His autism does overall effect it but the arc could still play out the same with his autism traits removed.
Mikey and Donnie are ADHD and Autism solidarity 🤝
I genuinely love how everyone agrees that Donnie is autistic like there are so many hints at it I don't know how any one would think he isnt-
In the episode snow day I think it was raph who mentions how donnies sings along the the songs in one of the jupiter Jim movies
He is a theater kid fr fr
I love him so much
There's a scene where he wanted to try out a tranquilizer but didn't get the chance to, so he just shot it at Raph
He needed to memorize directions and turned it into a song- he built a battle pack, specifically for his soft shell. There are many scenes where his tone sounds different than he wanted it to, and he casually clarifies what he means- in the first episode he makes a joke about how this is his real voice
There are *so many* good moments
Donnie is definitely one of my favorites - I didn't specifically talk about him in the video at length, but I made sure to at least show footage of him. Very well done representation, as someone who was diagnosed as autistic a number of years ago now, I hope there continues to be more good examples like this in animation
I think a sad thing to me is autistic people with high support needs don’t get representation without them either being babied or portrayed as tolerable or as an annoyance. Even other autistic people are so harsh and mean to autistic people with higher support needs.
You should check out L.A. Law sometime! One of the characters, Benny, has low functioning autism. In spite of this, everyone is really nice to him and he's portrayed as a really sweet man. (One example is a female coworker wanted to lose weight because she had really bad self esteem issues and Benny, not understanding the problem, told her "if you lost weight, you wouldn't be prettier. You'd just be smaller.")
@@jordanmchighlander9365 A lot of representation is often of lower support needs, I’m talking about higher support needs. Because not only I’d there very little, but all I’ve seen will go so far to portray them as annoyances. Making LSP autistic people seem like the ‘real rep’ or ‘easier’. Especially as someone of LSP, it hurts my heart.
@@CofiBeenz I'm new to a lot of autism terms. (Only recently found out I'm autistic.)
May I ask what you mean by support needs? I thought support needs correlated with degree of high/low functioning?
@@jordanmchighlander9365 Low/High functioning terms are not well liked by the community. Which is why we say support needs.
Some people’s support needs are just higher or fluctuate more than others.
Here, here! There seems to be a "one size fits all" mentality amongst the majority of people when it comes to people on the spectrum, whether high functioning or not!
I think the main reason is because many animators and creators actually are more likely to have Autism or ADHD themselves. So, it directly or indirectly leaks into their works.
As an AuDHD person (AuDHD is a slang term for those who have both ASD and ADHD) myself, and as one who wants to create an animated show, and as one who literally "animates" her show ideas in her own mind, I can see why you think this way.
@@lilysamvelian9970 I have ADD myself. Love writing my own stories too. Neurodivergent people have a higher chance to be more out of the box thinkers which leads to being more creative.
Dead End: Paranormal Park (animated show) has an autistic main character named Norma. She is very good rep in my opinion. Her special interest is Pauline, the woman who is the face of the park Norma scores a job at. She has Pauline everything. Its plastered all over her bedroom, she rewatches all of her old movies and owns all her collectors items. She's very blunt, often mistakes social ques, and really finds herself with her group of friends in the park. There is an entire episode where there is a demon that feeds off of the group's fears. She is shown having two meltdowns in this episode, one when she was younger, and another in the present day. Norma was able to save everyone because her true fear was the real world. And the whole episode was her worrying about fitting in with her new friends/coworkers because she was afraid.
I found her incredibly relateable and I always love seeing how the writers portray her autism. :D
I haven't heard of this show! Thanks for letting me know about it!
Really wish it didn't got cancelled.. :(
@@YourFriendlyShapeShifterFriendIT GOT CANCELLED??? BUT IT ENDED ON A CLIFFHANGER NOOOO
@@XCloak_PersonX
I WAS SO SAD WHEN I FOUND OUT
@Edensundae THERES COMICS????????? OH MY GOD
There’s a movie called “Mary and Max.” And they tackle autism perfectly.
I haven't heard of this! I'll have to check it out
@@noahthe0tterI've seen and loved it
The only movie that made me cry.
@@theboy2721 I know!!!!!!!!
In the movie, Max is diagnosed with Asperger’s. The two are very similar, but max explains more specific symptoms
I DIDN'T KNOW LILO WAS SEEN AS AUTISTIC. no wonder why i related to her so so much. oh my god
She is not
@@ricky.t.1658 was seen not is
@@cleopatra1d2 what?
@@ricky.t.1658they’re saying Lilo is SEEN as autistic, not that she officially is
@@cleopatra1d2It’s not confirmed but many fans speculate that she is autistic.
Abed Nadir from Community is one great example of ASD in a live action series; when writing the show the creator realised through writing Abed that he himself is autistic! It’s made it so that Abed while “”quirky”” to the outside world, is seen as a real human and is given people to bond with throughout the show
Community was streets ahead of it’s time, running between 2009-2015, it’s very unfortunate we still get bad representation
YES! abed is my favorite character , and if you have to ask why, your streets behind
I watched community around the same time I realized i was autistic (my mom tried to tell me before that point just for some reason the information didn’t register) and that’s really the first time i felt so seen and represented. To the people that say representation doesn’t matter you are dead wrong. It’s such a wonderful thing to see a character like yourself one way or any other in a piece of media.
Favorite line from Abed that encapsulates what being on the ASD is like for myself and everyone else: "I need help reacting to something."
I love how the most well-received autistic characters are the ones that are *actually written like characters* , and not some offensive caricature or stereotype of themselves
I feel like that's the key here. Too often, the live-action shows/movies are going in with intent to "make a neurodivergent character," without really making their character anything else outside of that. Sheldon's the biggest example, as he's _literally_ just a heap of autism stereotypes smashed together with a bunch of nerd stereotypes, and that's it. He has no personality, just a bunch of traits and tropes. They set out to design the most visibly neurodivergent characters, but don't actually make them _characters_ in any true sense of the word.
In contrast, you have a lot of animated characters that aren't set out to be "an autistic/neurodivergent character," but who read as such to those watching, if they're inclined to see it. Lilo shows a lot of traits of autism, but we're never explicitly told that she's neurodivergent. We just know she's a kid everyone sees as a little bit weird and off-the-rails. Heck, some aspects of her character could even be read as ADHD by someone else (hyperfixation is also an ADHD thing, her lack of impulse control, many of her seemingly strange patterns of logic, all could read as ADHD). It all comes down to who is viewing it. That's how you reach a wider audience and gain broader social recognition. Not by slopping together a bunch of exaggerated tropes based on what neurotypical people believe is what autism looks like into a character with no other facets to their personality.
I don't know how other people autistic people feel about Data (Star Trek: New Generation) but I relate so, so much with him.
He's an android, he doesn't express himself much; he doesn't understand popular sayings, jokes, emotions; he info dumps, he just CAN'T understand social cues.
As the series progresses, he shows that he wants to be more like the others, more "human", he starts to understand how to properly behave. I can see my own journey on his.
He doesn't understand how exactly to act. And he slowly develops and understand what kind of information is relevant for the situation (the kind of info dump he do is about important stuff for the missions, so it's better to have a filter 😅 sometimes time is really precious). And people too start to understand about him a little bit more. He starts to understand jokes and make his own jokes!
He loves Sherlock Holmes, and I could say is one of his special interests 😭💖
I feel a bit sad how he changed himself so much to be more human, but that's what he wished to (xD he's android after all, not autistic) and I'm so proud of who he became. And I can relate that too, with the masking. Sometimes I wonder if I'm still myself or if I adapted too hard to please people (ah the process of unmasking can be really hard. I'm trying to unmask and my mom says I look like a soulless person because I don't express myself like I was supposed to haha, oh well~)
I hope everyone have a wonderful and sweet day :D
Ah sorry if my grammar is not the best, English is not my first language and I too speak in a weird and bad grammar way in my native language xD I mix words a lot x.x
I completely agree with you! I was really into Star Trek a few years ago, and Data was by far my favourite character. As I've got older I relate more to that episode where he dates someone and masks like hell, as well. I, too, was a little sad when he got the "emotions programme" because I always got the impression that he DID feel emotion the whole time, and that they were just different from other people's (what even defines emotion, anyway?). Him changing himself almost felt like it was minimising that. I don't really consider the movies canon anyway (even if they technically are, haha).
@@randomgoats OMG, YES!!! I 100% agree with you xD You perfectly summed up how I feel about Data 💕💕
I 100% get! When it comes to scifi, I seem to like the robot characters best xD
Like Data from star trek and R2D2, BB8 and that black robot from star wars.
Data is a wonderful character that I liked alot when I watched star trek over my dads shoulder ♡
🖖
by golly. I heart that little fella!
I think the only “live action” autistic character that has received some good praise and I feel I should mention is Newt Scamander from Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them. He isn’t said to be autistic in the books or movies, but apparently the actor for him tried his best to represent that through this character
I love what you said for Tails and good video btw :)
I didn't think about Newt - I could see that! And yes, Tails has been one of my favorites for a long time - probably will always love him. Glad you enjoyed the video!
we're just lucky it wasn't on purpose. I can only imagine how *BAD* it would have been then
@@chickadeestevenson5440 yeah, I’m glad the actor tried to do it on purpose himself, but I wouldn’t be able to imagine if the writers did it on purpose without the proper knowledge
Never considered Lilo being on the autistic spectrum, yet last time I watched that movie (and played the game mentioned in the video, bringing good memories) I've been very young to even know what autism is, and didn't know I was autistic myself.
what is the median age of neurodiverse people finding out they are...well, neurodiverse? Because I discovered I had both ASD and ADHD at the age of 14
I recently got properly diagnosed by several doctors (in fear I'd get the wrong diagnosis) and found out I have high-functioning autism and my goodness the realizations I experienced.
Also about Music; Sia picked the child just because she sees Zeggler as her goddaughter (even if she really isn't and kinda creepy tbh). She didn't care about good autism representation. She did very little research and only talked to Autism Speak.
And the disappointment I felt towards Good Doctor being so bad is vast.
And the show of Big Bang Theory has stated several times that Sheldon Cooper isn't autistic; just a blunt and intelligent man who is a nerd.
I would have thought about Tails being neodivergent and that's super sweet.
I can't speak for the others but I learned a lot about them and this video is great.
yeah but Sheldon is autistic and so is Raj, idc what the showrunners say. And idk i like sheldon, he seems like a real person, very exaggerated but at least hes not shown as a helpless puppy like the guy from the good doctor
Sheldon isn't explicitly written as autistic but Jim Parsons has stated that he plays the character as though he is, so a lot of it really seems to come down to the writing vs the actor's vision of their character.
It's even more evident in Young Sheldon, where not only is his character much more grounded, but Parsons also coaches Iain Armitage while working as an executive producer on the show.
I always thought Sheldon was meant to be the type of person who thinks they’re way more intelligent than they actually are. I never related to him because he isn’t a relatable character. He’s only relatable to the types of people who argue that you have to have a high IQ to properly understand Rick and Morty.
One of the creators wrote him to have some of his own annoying traits but exaggerated. Said creator was later diagnosed with autism. So. That's how that happened.
Really interesting examples! I notice the live action examples are mostly explicit examples of autism, whereas the animated ones are more autistic-coded. In that vein I think Star Trek has some fantastic live action autistic coded characters like 7 of 9, Data, and Odo, and the Doctor in Doctor Who might also be considered that way. I think explicitly autistic characters are often terrible because the writers are allistic and have very little first-hand experience of it and so draw on stereotypes and clinical diagnoses.
Also yes I love Tails
Indeed - it also doesn't help when they specifically choose allistic actors :/ I do think if they chose folks on the spectrum, it would help a great deal. And I didn't think about Star Trek or Doctor Who! I haven't seen either, but those characters sound intriguing 🤔Regardless, thanks for taking the time to write this, Emikili! I am glad you enjoyed the video, and I am just glad to know you overall
@noahthe0tter yeah so many allistic actors playing autistic people :( It's similar with the portrayal of disabled characters.
Star Trek has some of the best neurodivergent characters in media I think. Oh and I just remembered Abed from Community is pretty cool.
The Big Bang Theory always bothered me for the reasons you described very well, and I never thought about Okabe being neurodivergent, I think I need to rewatch that again at some point.
Thanks for taking the time to make the video and also reply ^_^ I'm glad to know you too
@@noahthe0tterI was going to point it out in my own comment but I’ll tack it on to this one since it already covers it. I second the fact that a lot of the animation uses coded character and a lot of the live action uses characters that were said in someone, said in or out of show, to be autistic and ingredient explicitly that way. I could be wrong but it seems pretty consistent between the examples you chose. I feel this in itself makes a huge difference, especially because of course characters we find and pick out to be coded are going to be more favorable since that’s why we noticed them to begin with, wether they were intended to be autistic or not they match up with it so well that we can’t ignore it- on the other hand character that are intended to be outright may line up with some of the traits but when you don’t have someone who is neurodivergent working with writing them or someone who is just extremely knowledgeable, something that is directly marketed to us to be neurodivergent is likely to fall flat.
Animation is a painstaking art form where you need to hyperfocus to create it by default, in of itself that likely draws in more ND people to the field, so better rep in animated media makes a lot of sense. (Sincerely, an autistic freelance artist and animator)
@waarufu Yay I've that most autistic people I've seen go to college it's etheir for psychology or animation it's interesting
As an autistic person myself, I have a brother who is a lot like Sean Murphy. My brother will never be able to live on his own. And he needs a lot of help in his day to day life. His autism disables him to the point where he will always be a child himself. I see Sean Murphy's character as a combination of people like my brother and people who have savant talents due to their hyper-fixations. Objectively, Sean Murphy does not represent me. He does not represent most of us, but I feel he represents my brother in a kind and respectful way. I completely understand why people don't care for him, but I think his character is done well.
A genuinely amazing example of a life action depiction of autism to me is Sherlock Holmes. WAIT WAIT DON'T LEAVE I DON'T MEAN BENEDICT CUMBERBATCH. I'm talking specifically about his iteration by Jermemy Brett in the 1984 series. Holmes is shown to lack empathy, _but not compassion._ He cares deeply about others around him, he just genuinely struggles with emotional intelligence in moment to moment interactions. We're also constanlty reminded that Holme's intelligence is not some effortless supernatural ability but rather the result of INTENSE hyperfixation and extrordinary dedication to learning. He'll scrutinize one tiny detail of a case for hours on end while barely sleeping and eating, to the point where Watson has to tell him to go to bed. He even makes himself sick doing this sometimes, making him one of the only characters in general who are shown to struggle daily with executive dysfuntion. He also pretty blatently stims, having habits of singing to himself and agressivly tapping.
As an Autistic Person This Video make Perfect sence
Thanks friendo! Glad you enjoyed it - it's definitely a topic near and dear to my heart! Glad I can speak on it 💚🦦
omg fellow autism eeeeeeeeeeeee! 🥺
yeah and im very happy tails is on the spectrum like me as well
Tails is one I always saw a lotta myself in being autistic, for sure! @@knottyorchid1212
@@noahthe0tter same here
This might just me but as someone who major in animation (At least in my college) I noticed that there are more ND people in animation than in film major. I think the reason why so many good representation is in animations is because some people who work in animation (Or the sources material) make a character has ND traits because they are ND as well. For example is Eizouken cast has ND traits because the mangaka is has Autism and ADHD, Also Futaba (P5)'s english Va stated that she voices Futaba like she's on the spectrum.
I got diagnosed at 18 (almost a year ago). One of the ways I realised this and decided to get tested was watching cartoons with autism representation and realising I resonated with the neurodivergent characters. Many of the things they say and do are things that I myself do. That led to some realisations about myself.
As an autistic person, I really don't understand why people need to as automatically write out characters who were clearly not intended to be autistic as if they were, and picking out certain aspects of their character which fits ones understanding of autism really only ends up reinforcing the already existing stereotypes of autism as if someone who is somewhat outside the norm or is quirky MUST be autistic when such traits are actually pretty common for many people and might push people to think they might have serious signs of autism for completely neurotypical behaviours.
As someone who’s diagnosed with Asperger, I agree that characters that share similar trait to what autistic people can relate doesn’t necessarily mean they have to confirm they are one. Looking back, Superman from Man of Steel felt personal to me because he was an alien to Earth. Not just literally but even metaphorically. He doesn’t understand the people around him and has strong sensory but he has live on regardless. Even though Superman is not autistic, the traits he has is something I can feel like “I know this experience.”
Facts
let people relate to things. It dosent always need a confirmation in media.
@@tornadodee148 I think there's merit to that idea, I see fiction like movies, games and shows as doll sets for fans to play with as they will, but at the same time, I notice a lot of radical fans tend to take their own headcannons way too seriously and become incredibly obnoxious as if it's canon and then start fight with people who don't agree with them or interpret/identify with the story and characters differently as if they were discriminatory and "bad people", and thus it can end up leading to more harm than good.
Instead of trying to find characters in mainstream media to identify with, we and other minorities should be making our OWN media by and for US rather than trying to fit ourselves into the same generic content not made for us, but by and for big corporations which at very most inauthentically appeal to general audiences with their content, and which most often don't care in the slightest for our stories to share, much less our welfare.
Lilo and Stitch is literally my special interest
mine is legos, but i'm kinda hyperfixating on stitch right now
I think L from Death Note is autistic as well, he's one of my favorite anime characters since I relate to him in the social aspect. He's such a sweet character and is insanely brilliant, yet is definitely lacking in the social skills department and he is perfectly content with it
I’m pretty sure he’s not autistic. The Japanese are not as accepting of mental illness or disabilities, especially not 15+ years ago when Deathnote was made. The likelihood of making an autistic main character is extremely low. I’m sure there’s creator interviews that you could look up if he speaks about L having any mental disabilities of any kind though. The Japanese just like to make quirky characters lol. There’s at least one in every series.
@IliciaRodriguez0408 Just because it may not have been on purpose doesn't mean that L isn’t deeply autism-coded within canon.
Also, just because a culture isn’t accepting of mental illness or disability doesn’t mean they don’t have people with those traits within their society. It is not uncommon to portray mental illness/disability within manga/anime even without meaning it.
@@ilicia_08 Intentional or otherwise, L is a pretty darn good depiction of some colors of the Autism spectrum.
@@emirrartTokyo Ghoul has a lot of mental illness rep, especially with Kaneki
@@ilicia_08 I tend to find that a general amount of anime protagonists are coded with some sort of neurodivergence, though.
i thought sheldon cooper was confirmed to not be autistic and it was just a popular fanheadcannon
He's not officially autistic only because if he was, it would be offensive lol
He is literally the combination of all the worst stereotypes, but yeah "he's not canonically autistic" so no one can tell them that he's a bad representation of autistic people "because he's not one"
Well im pretty sure they did not intend to write him as autisic at all. Just that people thought that's what they were going for. It's likely they just took some dumb traits for a character archtype and people thought they were trying to make him autisic, but likely they weren't
@@therani9600 Well we can't just say they wrote him to be autistic if we have no real proof. I think if they said they didn't intend for him to be autistic then let's just take that at face value.
if sheldon cooper ever went to a psychiatrist, he's be diagnosed
@@rosesapling72 Well it's still a fictional show and all, so let's not worry that much on it.
I'm not a Big Bang Theory fan either but from a performance perspective Sheldon's actor is a bit of a powerhouse in being able to communicate the character's autism. Sure, he has interest in surface level pop culture "nerd" things, but thats just the need for the show. He is an avenue for older viewers and science enthusiasts to see people in 'nerd-om' (of the time the show was at its most popular).
I completely disagree that non-autistuc people can't play autism. Many talented people have done it well.
I feel Max from Where the Wild Things Are has some implied 'tism/growing pains in there.
Another Max from Parenthood is right on the money as well with his performance
And then there's that one Onion bit with "Autistic man discovers prison" or whatever, which is a pretty lovingly goofy idea, and the actor does great at it.
That Music character's issue is that the actress doesn't know enough about the micro body language of autistic people, so yeah, she instead makes dumb faces that don't at all look authentic.
I was early diagnosed with autism (3-5).
To anyone who wants to showcase autism in media: *make several characters with autism*
Why?: because we don’t all stim the same, we don’t all have high math/science skills, we aren’t all nonverbal, we don’t all avoid eye contact, we aren’t all taught the same by our family and… we aren’t all the same.
I'm writing this down for my show. Thanks for the advice!
@@lilysamvelian9970 Nice! If you have any questions, feel free to ask. I'm fairly aware of my behavior
@@callmecloudy6225 Well, something I have to say is...
I have BOTH Autism and ADHD.
And I want to write a character with both Autism and ADHD for my show.
How can I make a good representation for someone who has both ADHD and Autism? (If you don't know yourself then that's fine)
@@lilysamvelian9970 I don't have much experience with ADHD. But, with an open-ended question like that, and as you have both, I think experience coupled with research would be the best answer.
All I know is that autism includes laser focusing, while ADHD includes jumping around different things
@@callmecloudy6225 Well, I have been into researching neurodiversity lately (including both ADHD and Autism)
And from my own personal experience, it takes me a few months to switch interests, but I do switch eventually, only to turn back to my previous interests, (after some months, sometimes even after some YEARS)
And I also walk around while fidgeting, or as I walk, my walking turns into running (well...at least it boosts my thought and imagination lol)
I, as an individual, also RARELY have outbursts, but I know it CAN happen to me when I'm trapped in a situation that I can't get myself out of
But hey, I'm happy to see that I might already be on the right track!
I'm fairly certain that many of Disney's Renaissance princesses are on the spectrum. A lot of them have interests that set them apart from the crowd, and they have a tendency to isolate themselves because they don't much in common with the others. I personally resonate with Mulan, she spends the bulk of the film trying to figure out how to act in a socially acceptable way, whether its with the matchmaker or in the army, and while her family might chastise her for having her head in the clouds, they don't give her a hard time for her social failings either.
Not convinced Lilo is autistic since we're talking about 2 kids, Lilo who is like 6-7 and Nani who is 18-19, who both lost their parents and now Nani has to be the adult while putting aside her grief by trying to be there for Lilo. Lilo is just a lonely kid and the only other kids we've seen is just Myrtle and her kiss-ass friends. She doesn't really have anyone to talk too.
Plus it doesn’t help that Myrtle is classist. She mocks Lilo for her rag doll. It’s definitely evident that Lilo and a Nani are scraping by and Myrtle comes from a well off family.
@@elysiabarr425 I can't believe it JUST occurred to me that they're poor. Nani can't get a job and Lilo is threatened to being taken away yet I didn't put 2+2 together. 😅🤣
Yea everyone is saying she's autistic as a "fact" and when u disagree u get tons of people trying to prove u "wrong"
@10RexTheWolf01 idek if I knew that..💀
@@mrpickles-hb6zx In fairness this is do to them losing their parents and not a series of bad decisions and with the setting being Hawaii, IMO, having money doesn't seem as important as other parts of the USA since Hawaii is IMO a chill state to just relax and hang loose.😅
I feel like a lot of people misinterpret autism as inhibiting the ability to feel emotions when it's really inhibiting the processing and expressing of emotion. Also with cartoon characters, you can't fuck it up by casting a non autistic actor, and the exaggerated nature of cartoons make it easier to embrace the differences of neurodivergent people.
I don't know if this was already recommended but the live-action movie Temple Grandin felt like a really heartfelt representation of autism based on a the story of a real autistic woman's life, challenges, and accomplishments (this is coming from someone who isn't on the spectrum though). Would recommend!
Hmm! I have not heard of that! Enough people have recommended other media, a follow up video may be worthwhile tbh
Most of the plot surrounds her trying to get through school and about her farming inventions. Her becoming an advocate for autism doesn't really show up until the very end. It shows her as a complete human being with her own interests and capabilities -- not simply defined by her autism though it is a part of who she is and why she can do some of the things she can.
I .... don't think lilo is autistic. She's just a kid with no friends.
@wyltedleaves I know what coding is. I don't think that was accurate. Lilo is just a weird little girl with no friends. That doesn't mean she has a whole azz mental illness
@wyltedleaves There's no concrete evidence that the writers coded Lilo to fall under a mental disorder. There is only speculation based off of a few correlations that some people with the condition find relatable. And ending your comment with "thanks" makes you sound unnecessarily smug.
Many autistic kids have no friends _because_ other kids clock them as 'weird' and reject them for being different. You can see why Lilo doesn't have friends in the movie: her interests are alien to them, and when she's mocked for being weird, she doesn't have the social skills to keep it verbal.
This is a beautifully put together video and I agree with everything said. I'm not diagnosed with autism or other neurological conditions, so I don't know how it feels to ppl who are, but personally it always makes me happy seeing (well portrayed) neurodivergent characters in media. I have an autistic oc I hope to write properly, so seeing the opinions of someone in the spectrum is useful for that because I don't know any autistic ppl irl.
Also not rlly important but I love the inclusion of Donnie clips even if he wasn't talked about, he's my favorite character ever
Thank you so much for taking the time to say this! I'm glad you enjoyed this video, it makes me happy to see it's making an impact for others. And I actually did cover Donnie in the follow up video that released today!
@@noahthe0tter of course :D and I'll be sure to check out the next video!
A lot of the media I enjoy doesn't have explicit autism representation and if they do then it's most likely unintentional. A lot of characters I see as Autistic are ones I see myself in such as Homestar Runner, Juice, Strong Sad, Dr. Boris Habit, ETC.
Oh thank goodness somebody other than me is thinking this. Whenever I thought of autistic characters in media that aren't offensive stereotypes, I always thought of characters from video games or animated shows.
Great video!! The first few seconds were such a jumpscare for me cause I'm a huge RotTMNT fan lol. I can only assume you were using Donnie as a way to show good autistic rep in animation, which is so true. I love Donnie so much. Funnily enough is that the show writer has said a few times that Donnie is somewhat inspired by Sheldon from Big Bang theory. It's interesting how they were inspired by such a negative representation of autism and somehow came out with such a positive one. It might be due to kinda having to give him more personality outside of "nerd" as he is one of the four main characters? Idk, I just find it kind of funny. Wish you touched a little on Rise's representation but I understand why you didn't.
Donnie is a FANTASTIC autism rep - especially as someone who was diagnosed a number of years ago now, I am loving seeing all these positive examples appear in animated media
Wasn’t he based on Abed from Community too? (don’t quote me on that I’m pulling this from the depths of my memory, I probably got the characters name wrong😅)
I think a good live action interpretation of autism of all places comes from the series The Chosen. These series focuses on the drama of Jesus and his disciples, one of which is Matthew the tax collector. Now religious affiliation aside, this is a really good show and Matthew a really great character in it and the actor really does a good job making Matthew probably the most relatable member of the cast as he’s a guy who wants a comfortable life but is often isolated by his family and society and then for his self betterment he decides to leave the life for a new one where he has to live less comfortably and try to be more social with others, many who dislike him just because of his past as a tax collector which makes him trying to be more social all the more difficult. If you haven’t watched this show check it out, you may find it really enjoyable and Matthew’s a great character in it
i am not completely austistic, but i found the best way to represent them is to relate to them, many times i thought myself as one because alot of similarity. i think alot of my imagination, i obsses over stuff and don't like eye contact completely. also my friend that in the austism spectrum is pretty much normal with some differences.
so yeah, it's pretty much relate and listen to represent
That Music movie looks horrible. Like they're making fun of people.
It is VERY bad, yes. This is why I make fun of Sia so much lol. Sadly super disrespectful
@@noahthe0tter I get it now. Personally I like her music. I don't know why she made this movie, but she really screwed up by not hiring an actual person with autism or ND. Hollywood always takes the easy way out when it comes to picking actors who have to portray some people. It cannot be that difficult to do the right thing. Just them being lazy and in turn disrespectful like you said and that in turn makes everyone hate what they made even more.
What makes me sad is that I heard that the actress actually cried or something because she felt that she was making fun of autistic ppl with the portrayal, she didn't want to make fun of them... she had so much pressure put on her for no reason :(
@@DianaDoesDozens that's terrible. wish someone spoke up for her
Murdoch Mysteries is my favorite live-action autism rep I've seen recently. It's a canadian period crime series, and there are three characters in the main cast who are autistic, and they are all very different from each other.
The first is the main character, Detective William Murdoch, who has kinda the most "stereotypical" traits (logical, not very emotional, genius, has strict weird habits, does not understand social clues at times, etc), but he is also a relatable, fleshed out character. Someone who, tho tries to always stick to the order of the law and God and never lie, from season to season has to question and redefine his beliefs. He has many flaws as well, like being too traditional at times or having a hard time facing his mistakes.
The second one is Constable George Crabtree, William's colleague and best friend. He is a high-masking autistic, who is very chatty and tries to always make a good impression on people. He is the type who wants to be seen as "normal", but once he trusts someone and feels comfortable around them, his "weird" side comes out. And from then on he never shuts up about UFOs, ghosts, vampires, zombies; he has an amazing imagination and also wrote multiple fantasy/sci-fi books.
The third is Detective Llewellyn Watts, who is first introduced in season 10. He has both autism and ADHD. He has a lot of obvious "strange" behaviors from the way he speaks, walks, sits, or gestures with his hand. He is quite a hot mess most of the time, he's unorganized, impulsive, or even random... with Llewellyn, you'll never know the next thing he's gonna say. But despite his clumsiness or messiness, he's never seen as less competent than anyone else on the show. He is just as intelligent as William, but with totally opposite ways of doing so. The two didn't really like each other as well when they first met, and it took some time to adjust to each other's habits. Llewellyn is also very very socially sensitive and has a strong interest in philosophy and different religions, cultures, languages, and foods from around the world.
What I like the most about the autism rep in this show, is that 1, it shows totally different types of autism, not just one. 2, that it does it really naturally, and no character feels overdone, or a caricature of autism. The actors, writers, and directors really did an amazing job. 3, all of these characters are shown as independent, competent adults, none of them are patronized. And while yes, the people around them do think they are a little... odd..., their surroundings still respect them and listen to them (big thanks on that to the Inspector, who always takes them seriously, even when he thinks their logic doesn't make any sense).
One thing I will critique tho is the lack of female autistic characters in the main or even the support cast. There are female autistic episode characters, but none appear again in the show. Which bothers me, since the series is filled with strong, intelligent, amazing women, and even women of color, so it would be nice to see an autistic and/or ADHD woman as a recurring character. On this note, the feminist and LGBTQ+ representation is really good there imo, as someone from both of those groups. And the racial rep seems well-done too, altho I can't speak from personal experience on that.
I agree, but for animation you only really listed characters who are suspected to have autism, while the live action characters are mostly confirmed to have autism. I feel like this extra factor messes with the way we perceive this situation as any “bad representation” characters who aren’t confirmed are just swept under the rug.
Not to mention, Lilo is specifically _the_ human because almost everyone else is an alien. This portrays autism as being a normal trait for people to be, and not one that makes someone inhuman.
Nice, I kind of thought of your conclusion as to the reason why too. Even in the case of more modern animation where where the animators watch the actors perform to gain some visual insight in how they want to animate the scene, it's not a 1 to 1 of an actor or director in real life trying to ham up a performance that they really don't understand in the first place.
Exactly - there's still gonna be enough left to be drawn/rigged or such to make for a still believable autistic character
0:16, to be fair to the writers of The Big Bang Theory, they didn’t intend for Sheldon to be an Autistic character even though he ended up coming across as Autistic (including to Jim Parsons.)
I think Osaka in Azumanga Daioh is a good representation of autism even though it's never confirmed that she has it. She's quiet, ditzy and is prone to daydreaming, but can also be oddly philosophical and creative. She's bad at studying and misses a lot of obvious social cues, but excels at riddles because she thinks differently than most people. What's really nice is that Osaka isn't even treated that differently by any of her friends; they just accept her for who she is even when they can't understand what she's thinking (which happens a lot to a comedic degree).
I've never heard of that! I'll have to look it up
As someone who is autistic I agree of what you said and I can relate the struggles Osaka face in school, since I struggle and getting confused, ditzy and zoning out in random situations at school and social skills when I was much younger. but I also good at learning new skills and hyperactive to remember some important topic I might need, most people may not understand how I feel or not see how I see, they still treat me like am a normal person. that why i like Osaka because she so relatable to me and am glad that most fiction characters in animation are show the right representation of autism. 😊
A korean drama I watched called "It's okay to not be okay" has literally one of my favorite autistic representation in media, being autistic myself (Diagnosed at 3) I found myself loving the character named Sang-Tae, one of the most positive autistic characters I've seen in quite a while, very relatable too since reminded me a lot of myself.
I was looking for a comment talking about him! I don't know if I'm neutorypical or neurodivergent, the people around me constently tell me contradictory opinions, so I don't think I'm in a good place to be critical about the character, but I think he's a really good character. He's not just an autistic guy thrown into the show to be a problem to the mc or to be funny, he actually gets character developement and feels like an actual person with interests, dislikes and a personality. I've heard that Oh Jung-Se (the actor, and my favorite actor) did a lot of research for the character (manerism, speech, ect.) and I'm very glad he did. Weirdly enough, a lot of the tricks he uses in the show (butterfly hug, 3 second trick) help me a lot in my day to day life
@@OkabrineKanahap You pretty much perfectly explained why I love his character, one of my favorite scenes with him is when he covers up the Vietnam veteran after his PTSD is triggered to calm him down, the same way Gang-tae did for him earlier in the show. That's character development at its finest.
@@OkabrineKanahap Also, I love that you use the same tricks he uses, that's nice.
Excellent observations. I can only hope that we do better with live action portrayals in the future.
I agree! I hope it can happen too, myself 😊
Lilo I very much believe because her development into later movies and the tv series is very much like what I experienced growing up. In the tv show, she's shown to start becoming more self conscious of how she looks towards others and really believes her bullies are friends that are just mad at her for messing up. She's also started showing signs of masking. Not helping are the adults in her life who frequently minimize the problems she's dealing with because they think she's just being a quirky child again and they think that means they don't have to take her seriously. I rewatched the series recently and I felt so bad for the poor girl because I remember suppressing myself at that age for other peoples sake. It did some serious damage to my mental health and self esteem later in life.
6:13, “well-written characters are well-liked”, it’s sad that there are professional writers who don’t understand that
I feel like a good representation in live action is the Stalker from Tarkovsky’s “Stalker” released in 1979, I’ve just always resonated with him and his hyper fixation of Venerating the Zone and of trying to make others happy at the expense of his own safety and marriage.
I concur with a lot of this! I also wonder if maybe animations better for autistic folks because of some folks trouble with eye contact? In my experience, I end up chafing with real life eye contact, but dont mind drawing eyes or expressions or anything. But i concur with your thoughts on overexagguration.
What music gets so wrong is that when it comes to autism, your brain just simply works differently. I’m on a different wavelength from other people, but I’m not in a more regressed state like a young child. Music acts very infantile, she has little coherent thought, and is made to be a difficulty for everyone else.
While people with autism like me can make issues, people with autism still have a degree of awareness, especially if they’re musics age
Yeah, from my experience in multiple autistic friend groups (diagnosed lmao, not insulting, clarifying because it’s an unfortunately common way to read this kind of comment), the thing I thought of when reading this comment was how perhaps people see autistic people as children is because they ‘behave childishly’ because that’s a social thing, and then incorrectly assume that their behaviours indicate cognitive ability because they can’t separate the two. I’m not diagnosed at all and don’t claim to be autistic, but it’s something that I’ve noticed when seeing these weird depictions and knowing they’re nothing like my friends.
For example, adults socially tend to ‘grow up’ and enjoy their interests to a ‘reasonable, socially acceptable extent’, so people openly being very enthusiastic about a hyperfixation is the same way a child acts around something they enjoy. Being very open about their excitement/enjoyment, open with their disappointment, very blunt with conveying things/feeling emotions, making weird noises because they’re funny, etc. are all ‘childish’, all things my friends do (when they’re comfortable in the friend group and not masking) but they’re all still emotionally mature and developed people, they still understand as much as I do. Honestly, I really like spending time with them because I get to be more open too.
But hey, Sia worked with AutismSpeaks, who advocate eugenics and spread fears of autism, so I’m really not surprised how that movie turned out.
7:26, I know a lot people (myself included) think of Sheldon as Autistic but it’s still worth mentioning that the character was not written to be Autistic
Lilo and Stitch has always been one of my favorite movies. I saw myself so much in Lilo. As an Autistic person, the scene where Lilo shows Scrump to the other girls and they ditch her, made me very emotional because I have been ditched by so many people who I thought were my friends because I was too "weird".
i never really read Lilo as autistic, but oddly enough she was also one of the few characters i intuitively vibed with.. she just felt _normal_ to me in a way?
and now i can't unsee it. also, as someone who is a rather sociable and at times outright extroverted autistic person i really like that representation. it's not that showing struggles with human interaction wasn't valid, but i've come to know a couple people who do not struggle with understanding the rules but the onslaught of emotions and just sensory input is always so hard to deal with and i would like that being shown more often, and maybe more often explicitly labelled as autism bc that would have helped me understand my waaaaay earlier.
i've seen several reactions of the big bang theory, and while sheldon is meant to be a quirky character that's played for laughs, i enjoy him for that. plus, he does have human moments, like his relationship with his girlfriend and his friends.
On the video game side of things my favorite example of autistic headcanon would probably be doomguy. He doesn’t talk much, doesn’t understand social conventions and even actively works against them, has hyperfixations on typical nerd shit and guns, and is asexual.
There is also an animated gem of a movie called Mary and Max. It's about an autistic old man living in New York who writes pen pal letters to a little girl in Australia. It's a really sweet and heart warming movie that made me tear up at the end.
Interesting! I will add this to my list
I’ve been autistic for awhile this video stood out to me because it showed that I’m not alone.
I’ve been depicted as a sped by my people for the things I love and the classes I’ve been in I also been beaten up for it. But even if that happened to me all these years I’m still myself regardless.
Tails Stood out for me because I’ve always wanted to fly when I was younger but I never got the chance so seeing him fly around really fast and doing all the crazy stuff makes me stim a lot.
Sometimes when I’m stressed I usually talk to myself out loud on the things I like and people think I’m crazy for that but that’s how I cope with things. I hope people understand that I’ve been on the spectrum and do things that showcases it.
I don't usually comment on videos. But the YT algorithm recommended me this and upon seeing Tails I was completely hooked. I watched though the entire video and it was honestly a good analysis of how animation portrays autism and neurodivergency better than live action.
I myself have autism and do agree with your points on Lilo and Tails. I am a huge Sonic fan as well and I can totally relate to Tails in a way since Sonic is one of my favorite characters and I've looked up to him the most as a kid, similar to how Tails did upon first meeting him. Especially with Lilo being obsessed with Elvis since I myself am obsessed with old vintage things like old school NES or other past decades like the 20s or 50s.
It kind of shocks me that animation can portray autism a whole lot than live action since I think with animation, it expresses more to younger audiences who could relate to being in those characters shoes while also the fact that animation can be very expressive to a wide variety of audiences in different ways than live action. Maybe it's also because with animation they're just moving drawings with varied designs ranging from cartoony to realistic that people tend to forget it isn't real life. But with live action, it is real life, and we see people acting out a character which can also vary depending on the writing and acting of said person.
So yeah, sorry for the long comment here but I just want to give out some of my small thoughts to a great video! This gets a like and a subscribe for me.
Thank you and have a great day!
Thank you for taking the time to type this out!! I was glad to read that this video made such an impact for you! It seems it's catching a lot of people's attention in a good way, which I am really glad to see. It's something I think often needs more attention, so I'm glad to see lots of great discussion in this comments section! Thanks friendo
Tails the Fox being seen as autistic makes me so happy
I don't see how people find him autistic, he seems normal
@@mrpickles-hb6zx Reword your sentence, it implies autistic people aren't normal, i know you don't imply that but it could rub off the wrong way to others..
@@mrpickles-hb6zxseems… normal? What do you mean by that?
im confused on how tails and lilo are seen as autistic
@@erm_what_the_spruce I assume it’s because of how lilo is seen as “weird” by the other girls, how she has a hyperfixation on Elvis Presley, and how she follows a routine religiously.
Tails though? Not sure, maybe someone else can explain
That Tails one really stood out to me. I'm glad I'm finally seeing that I'm not the only one who loves Tails because of his character like this. Tails is most definitely my favorite character to exist, and as an autistic person myself with a upsetting childhood like his, Tails has inspired me in many ways and seems so relatable, especially when it comes to being bullied for being different or smart. He's, like you said, strong, loyal, and smart, and because of all the thought put into making Tails and everything he is, that is why Tails is my favorite character EVER. Thank you.
No wonder I loved Tails in the Sonic franchise, and the film Lilo & Stitch, they both were so relatable to me, cause I myself am Autistic. I've exhibited many of the traits both Lilo & Tails have had in their characters, being hyper focused on various things, and being talented as well as creative.
You may like my new video on another hyperfixated character that dropped today too, discussing Spider-Man!
Two relatable live-action representations that I can think of are Moss and possibly Rory from The IT Crowd. I found that I shared many traits with both of these characters.
My favorite character who is autistic is Marcy from Amphibia.
I’m surprised for a bad example of an autistic character is that kid from (2016 or 18) the Predator movie. Stating that autism is just a step forward in human evolution.
Oh man I'd almost forgotten about the Predator kid. The worst part is when the kid accidentally kills a guy and just doesn't care. What a mess of a film
As a Autistic man in my 20's your Review is Relatable and Correct!
Animated Autism Superior, Live-Action Autism Inferior.
That's all I have to say.
One of my favorite characters was recently confirmed to be autistic by the creator.
That being Mini from Cool Kid Cody.
Mini was a girl born Average with her twin brother Cody. Their parents, Katy and Nori, were born a Cool Kid and a Loser respectively. However, they averaged out. One day in 1998, Katy and Nori would be banned, leading to Mini and Cody being abandoned before being found by G-Ma. She told them that their parents died.
Mini was believed to be born a Loser after this, which led to her being bullied a lot. Cody often comforted her and hung out with her, but he was believed to be born a Cool Kid. This made G-Ma treat them MUCH differently, with Mini being neglected, Cody being treated like a God-in-training, and both of them being verbally abused (although that was mostly Mini who suffered from that). This got worse during middle school. Luckily, Mini DID have a best friend... Juvie! Juvie's usually pretty mean, but they're way softer with Mini. They have the most obvious crush on her, it's painful...
Eventually, Mini started to get jealous of Cody and ran away some time in 2007. Everyone believed she was dead until they found out, 6 years later, that she LITERALLY OWNED THE SCHOOL THEY WENT TO...
There's a LOT more to the story, buttttt it'll be WAYYY too long.
I'll add some random scenes with her in the replies. She's my favorite character and I relate to her soooo muchhhh
The first movie that ever helped me actually understand what autism is was Temple Grandin, based on a real autistic person (Temple Grandin), who gave her blessing to the movie and actress that portrayed her, last I read. Give it a watch, I think it was really good c:
Interesting! A few comments have recommended this - I should give it a look!
When I first watched Rise, Donnie was my instant favorite. I didn't know why but I connected with him the most. Later I found out I was autistic, and then I found out Donnie was autistic. So it makes sense now and it's nice to see some decent rep.
I'm pretty sure Lilo and Stitch takes place in the 60's or 70's based on the fashion and the cars. Also, Lilo being autistic could explain why I resignated with her and her interest in all things Elvis Presley. Like me and my little sister understood Lilo and stuff.
You know I was genuinely surprised when you brought up Tails... I never connected the dots before, but yeah I can see it! Funny enough, Sonic himself does sometimes show very ADHD-like traits in a lot of the more comical Sonic media (like Sonic Boom and the Sonic Movie for example).
After finding out that Tails is autistic, it makes me even more sad that he shot Cosmo at the end of the Metarex Saga of Sonic X because it could have affected him greatly.
That ending is very tragic. I thought Season 3 of Sonic X was the best season
Kid Danger: *wearing his mighty pup movie outfit* I have to be 100% honest with ya..... as a pony who has autism and I never knew that SOME animation characters who have autism. I understand that Rise Donnie who I lean on because of the fact i like him.
There's a show called criminal minds and one of the characters named Spencer Reid shows many autistic traits and the actor Matthew gray Gubler as mentioned how he also noticed his traits and I noticed that the whole criminal minds fandom basically head cannons him as autistic and there's quite a few videos that go in debt on his traits
As an autistic person, I personally don't have a problem with The Good Doctor. Then again, I'm only on season 1, which doesn't give me much to go off of, but I'm enjoying it right now :)
I once heard that autism can't always be portrayed accurately in media because autism is different for everyone. I believe this to be true, which is why I don't have any ill feelings towards shows like The Good Doctor. While I find Music to be insulting, I haven't picked up on any serious offences in The Good Doctor yet
I do understand your point on how animated autistic characters are portrayed differently from live action ones. It makes sense how voice actors don't have to make overexaggerated gestures to get the point across
I think my favorite animated autistic characters are Hunter from The Owl House and Tina from Bob's Burgers 💕
I don't think I have any words to say This was a fantastic analysis of autism and I hope you are doing well mate. Btw I plan on watching Steins Gate tonight when I go to my grandma's house
Thanks Trouge!! I'm really glad you thought it was that good! I was pretty nervous about making it, so I'm glad it's good 😊 and I am good, thank you!! And yayyy! I hope you love Stein's;Gate 💚🦦
Honestly characters particularly animated head cannon neurodivergent coded characters that weren’t even explicitly/intentionally made to be autistic do a better job at representing autism and neurodiversity better than a lot of shows/movies that have characters that were explicitly meant to be autistic. As an autistic girl, now woman, lilo always resonated with me. Lilo and stitch is one of my favorite movies of all time and the fact that lilos autistic coded makes me love the series even more. While I do agree animation does a better job at representing autism there are some live action example of autistic coded characters in live action shows that are really great characters. Specifically a lot of nbc shows such as parks and recreation, the office, Brooklyn nine nine and community.
Huh. I never picked up on this, but it does make perfect sense looking back at it :)
I finally got around to this!
I do appreciate the nod to Lilo, as she was one of the first characters I attached myself to. I do think it’s interesting though that your three animated examples aren’t canon, while your live actions ones are (I think Sheldon is? I’ve heard conflicting things but I ain’t watching BBT). With that said, I do think there’s bad examples of animated autism (as discussed in my video) and good examples of live action ones (like Abed from Community), it just varies a lot
I agree! It DOES vary a lot, in all honesty. I do think though, in animation, good examples tend to be more plentiful, but live action has some solid ones. I was suggested a lot, Abed being one of them, and also Temple Grandin, Quorra from Tron Legacy, and some others I covered in a more recent video.
Quinnie from HeartBreak High which is an Australian drama, the actor is autistic too and she influenced the story. I really enjoyed the reputation :).
I'm branching a bit into speculation here from my own experience reading and attempting to write fiction with cerebral palsy (which I have myself) in it, but I wonder if the distinction between explicit and implicit representation is also significant. Of the live action characters mentioned, each has been directly identified by the writer as autistic, which leads them to attempt to make whatever they think autism is visible and obvious to the audience (leading to exaggerated portrayals of symptoms which don't connect to the wider experience of the world). In contrast, the implicit representations are all examples where the writers have focused on the character's experience of the world and the challenges they face within it, leading to integrated and complex personalities, which flow together. So when these characters are interpreted or recognised as autistic, it's because their characterisation does the work, rather than the author trying to impose that interpreation on the audience (show don't tell, really, but also a demonstration that the interaction with the world is more essential than a list of symptoms or stock tropes... And also probably a selection bias, since the characters who aren't implicitly coded autistic well, don't get recognised as an attempt as much, which skews the results towards stronger examples, but I think that's likely minor).
I think was really well demonstrated to me by the book Slug Queen Chronicles. It similarly never explicitly identifies the protagonistic as autistic, but this means the audience's focus is on how she experiences the world, rather than on checking off boxes on a diagnosis list, and we don't end up reading Cricket as 'other' in the same way we're encouraged too with Sheldon (where half of the joke relies on the audience viewing themselves as different from him).
This also reminds me of a quote Sydney Zarlengo brought up about the way the exaggerated nature of the theatre has a tendency to make all protagonists come of as neurodivergent. I wonder if the same impulse is impacting cartoons, because the lesser drive to be 'realistic' pushes writers less towards allotistic notions of normalacy.
oh wow, i just watched lilo and stitch recently. didn't even cross my mind that she could have been neurodivergent. did think she was extremely weird though
I don't like it when characters that haven't explicitly been referred to as autistic in the story they appear are tagged with this label. It comes off like a simplification, like "this character is x now".
I understand what you're saying I'm on the spectrum myself, so I like the fact that you're trying to get everyone to understand what they're all should be understanding.
Is that Apotos Day from Sonic Unleashed I'm listening to in the background? 👂🏿 Also Tails is autistic?! 😱
That is! I love Sonic Unleashed haha. And yes, I definitely see Tails as such!
This is why animation is SO much better than live action.
My sister and I grew up in the 80s and 90s, so we really didn't have any Autistic representation, back then. If you grew during either of these decades, your Autistic representation was mostly the 1980s movie Rain Man, with Tom Cruise and Dustin Hoffman, where Hoffman played a man with Autism and Cruise played his brother. While the movie was very sweet and touching, and was also an Oscar winner, besides that piece of media, we didn't have much else to go on. I remember there being a movie called The Boy Who Could Fly, which was released during the 80s. It was about a very quiet boy, in fact, he was the titular character, and he loved a beautiful girl. This was supposedly the only other Autism representation we had.
As a woman on the Spectrum, I don't feel like there are a lot of characters that I can relate to, with the majority of them being male. However, I do write stories, so sometimes it feels like I need to create characters, that feel like I can have someone to relate to. Mostly, what helps is the support of family and friends. So, if you feel underrepresented, make sure that you at least have a strong support system.
I'd be curious about your opinion on the characters Rick Sanchez (Rick and Morty) and Reagan Ridley (Inside Job) as other animated portrayals of autism. They're fairly similar which is why I pair them together, but I think they do a good job at showcasing autistic traits within a unique and fleshed out character.
Apparently, Sia tried to have actual autistic actors, but they were too difficult to work with
Also, the actress that played Music is reported to have broke in tears the first day doing rehearsals, scared that people would think she* was purposely mocking autistic people
Also, two years later, Sia revealed that she was autistic... and attempted suicides over criticisms of her movie
*It's ambiguous if the actress was talking about herself or Sia
And yet she also insulted autistic actors anyway on twitter. There's no excusing the fact that it's a shit movie made by a shit person.
Lilo has always been my favorite character, but I never really stopped to ask myself why. This video helped me understand why I connect with her so much, Thank you 😊
I would be interested in seeing a comparison of sheldon from the big bang theory and sheldon from Young Sheldon about representation. It's not perfect, but I think the portrayal in young sheldon seems to be an improvement (big bang theory set the bar very low, so I know that's not saying much)
I just found your channel today, have been enjoying the videos. Would love to hear your thoughts!
Not on board with your Lilo and Tails diagnosis but if you believe they can be used as something to characterize fictional autistic characters after then sure because the mainstream media definetly still has leaps and bounds to go when it comes to representing people with mental health issues of all classifications.
I agree. Lilo seems more of just a peculiar child. She's meant to stand out from the norm a bit compared to the others, especially her classmates because it works for the movie, but that doesn't mean an ASD diagnosis.
I'm very thankful this video was made! Before this, I could never put a pin on why I absolutely hated the autistic representation in things like Music and The Good Doctor (even after seeing other videos on them) and yet I tend to find so many of my own autistic traits in animated characters. It's really funny how the live action characters are more "exaggerated" than the actual cartoons.
I am glad you enjoyed it! This is exactly what I wanted for this video to do. So thank you for taking the time to comment this 💚It means a lot
When it comes to live action, I think Lt. Commander Data does a better job acting like someone with Asperger's Syndrome than Sheldon. I know he's an android, but still.
Can I ask your opinion on a question of representation? For the record, I'm not autistic, but I work with autistic children. I've often noticed that the representations that are most positively received tend to be characters with level 1 autism. They're fully verbal. They struggle with some aspects of day-to-day life, but mostly get along with only a low level of support. On the other hand, characters with level 3 autism (like the infamous Music) tend to be overplayed, stereotypical, and offensive.
Do you have any thoughts on (or know any examples of) good representation of characters with level 3 autism? Most of the kids I work with are level 3, and I wish there were shows and movies where they could see themselves represented. It would be wonderful to see good portrayals of characters who talk through an AAC device or a PECS book. Or to see characters using visual schedules and sensory tools to navigate their day.
The Pixar short "Loop" was very well-done, but it's the only example I know of, and it's only a few minutes long. It doesn't have the time to go in-depth.
This is a really difficult one for media to tackle properly imo - I have definitely seen level 1 be the most positively received and well portrayed, like you said. Things like Radio, Music, and others all miss the mark for this - I think Loop is a good one, but I really feel like media has not quite figured out how to show this in a respectful light. However - I think a good workaround, at least until this is done well, is to perhaps show your students movies or shows where characters are communicating with limited dialogue, but still shown positively. Things like Wall E especially. For especially sensory films - I recommend It's Such a Beautiful Day by Don Hertzfeldt
@@noahthe0tter Thanks, I'll have to check that movie out. I hope the enterainment industry figures it out soon.
@CalliopePony same! It would definitely be nice for kids to have good examples out there for them
Agreed! A ton of "normies" have absolutely no idea how to autism right. It doesn't help that animation is the least respected medium of film making, in the eyes of the big studio execs at least... so in a way, it makes the studios and actors portraying neurodivergent people, ESPECIALLY autistic people, come off as ableist if anything, even if it is unintentional. I say either the studios do their homework and do neurodivergency correctly, or don't at all! It isn't that hard!
Wait LILO HAS AUTISM?
Heartbreak High has great live action autistic rep in the character Quinn, who is played by an autistic actress. I also love that her character isn't completely one-note. She has some over sensory moments and "quirky" hyper fixations but we also get to see how she supports her friends and how she navigates dating and romantic relationships.
i never interpreted lilo as being autistic! this video is really great. the surgeon guy is so damn awful and i don’t think anyone takes him seriously because of how poorly they portrayed him. also, congrats on 1k subs! hope you’re doing well!!
Lilo is not autistic
Thanks Lyn! I am good, indeed! Lilo has definitely been one of my favs for a good while. Hope you are well too!