America didn't have to refuel in Johannesburg because the very people who ran the south Africa apartheid state were from the same evil land that the founders of USA and most of its presidents were descendants from. 😅
@@shakara123 most likely for anything pertaining to the Cold War. If memory serves the Africa’s and Latin America were kind of split as to whether they wanted to align with the West, the Soviets, or being completely neutral. I remember the possibility that South Africa would align with the Soviets was Ronald Reagan’s biggest excuse for not sanctioning The apartheid. Thank God we sanction them anyway. They can say whatever they want about the current government but the apartheid needed to end.
Nancy is only right in the fact the USA only needed Qumar because some of their enemies were some of our enemies, so we sell them guns and turn a blind eye to their extreme human rights abuses. CJ was in fact in the moral and ethical right.
No, the most painful part is thinking the National Security Advisor would ever have this conversation with the press secretary. Who the hell are we kidding?
Alison Janney does a fantastic job as usual but I'm also blown away by Anna Smith's portrayal of Nancy McNally. She never comes across as someone who is unsympathetic and with dialogue like this, that's a real danger.
100% Though I think she had a slight advantage at the Emmys because she was the only truly great female performance/character in the show (apart from Donna, but she probably didn't have quite enough to do). It didn't exactly have gender balance so Schiff, Spencer, Sheen and Whitford had to split their Emmys
I was always sad that CJ and Nancy weren't able to have more scenes together. I understand why they didn't, at least while CJ was still press secretary. Also, as a side note, I always wished CJ and Fitz had scenes together. The one scene I can think of with them together in the oval where Fitzwallace says "Claudia" and CJ responds with "Sailor" is amazing in just two words.
I love the line, "If we had sold A1 M1's to South Africa you would have set the building on fire. Thank God we never had to refuel I'm Johannesburg." The poignant point and counter point is what made The West Wing the smartest show on TV.
Its professionalism I mean we want to spread human rights but nobody wants a war to do it and unfortunately these countries who have poor human rights track record understand one thing and that force.
Also fantastic was a moment after the cut here when Toby enters the briefing room from the rear to watch it unfold and, as CJ passes over the relevant item without raising an issue, he puts his hands to his heart as a gesture of gratitude. I always thought that was a brilliant touch which conveyed the same idea that came through between Nancy and CJ: it’s a dreadful, inescapable reality, and it’s uncomfortable but it needs to happen.
Dr. McNally doesn't turn and walk away because she's pissed or she disagrees--she walks away because she has no answers. She's one of the brightest minds in that White House and she's got nothing more to offer. Our relationship with Saudi Arabia...I'm sorry, Kumar...is such a revolting necessary evil it makes my skin crawl.
Here’s my take: the point of this scene is that CJ is right and so is Nancy. To me, metaphor is that CJ and Nancy are the same person. A lot of long to stop harm at all cost but, at the same time, those people understand that politics, economics, and connivence limit our ability to do that and, sometimes, that’s the truth of the matter. To me, I feel the tension of both those beliefs deep inside my chest. Have a nice day!
it is refreshing to imply the white house cares what happens to women on an individual basis even if it's in Qumar. It's naive to suggest it informs policy overseas.
I lived in Saudi Arabia for 5 years, made a lot of Saudi friends, but I saw that the problem extends far beyond their government. Everything CJ said is correct, absolutely 100%, but what she ignores is this fact: the Saudi government isn't ruling a moderate, liberal, educated population. - Almost all Saudis have a deep respect for the absolute authority of Islam and religious authority. - Saudis would never democratically elect a liberal secular government. - The only force or authority I ever saw in Saudi outside of government was their "religious police", they and other religious figures are the only people in the country who can speak out and influence public opinion, and if the government of Saudi Arabia falls, the new leaders will likely come out of that lovely circle of nutjobs. This is not just my opinion, this is the opinion of many Saudi friends and coworkers I had, men and women, who all more or less agreed that liberal/secular Saudis represent a very quiet and statistically insignificant minority. I went there to work on the construction of the country's FIRST co-ed university, and the public outcry inspired by religious clergy was mind-numbing. When you'd tell people what you're working on, you get the dirtiest look sometimes, like you'd just told them you're pissing on their mom's grave or something. So CJ's problem doesn't end with the government of Saudi Arabia. CJ's problem is with the culture of the vast majority of the people of Saudi Arabia. In that sense, why the hell should we want their regime to be overthrown? It's gonna be a failed state, hotbed for Islamic fundamentalism, and it's going to lockout access to the world's largest oil reserve, which would then be ripe for the picking by the Ayatollah's in Iran. We don't pay them any foreign aid. We make a lot of money out of them. They give us access to their strategically located airspace and they host the United States fifth Naval fleet giving us critical access to the Persian Gulf. They don't threaten us or Israel. They are enemies with Iran. Why the hell would we want a regime change in Saudi Arabia? You think the new guys are gonna be social liberals? You think they're gonna introduce progressive liberal democratic legislature? You think the girls in that school are gonna be saved? Were you inspired by how well it worked out in Syria, Libya, and Iraq? We have to leave bad guys alone sometimes. We have to pick the lesser of two evils sometimes. We don't live in a perfect world. Grow up.
The best non-violent way of changing a society like Saudi Arabia is education and information. The world is getting smaller thanks to technology (internet, smartphones, tv) and more and more young saudi people see how people in USA and Europe live and the freedoms they enjoy. Sooner or later young saudi's will say "I want that, I should have that" and that will be the beginning.
ScarlettM They have that. They have one of the highest twitter penetration rates in the world, they're very tech savvy. Know what a LOT of them use Twitter for? They find people posting liberal or atheist things and make hashtags demanding they be executed.
Those that are grown ups today will do that. It's too late for teach them new things. But I was talking about the next generation, those that are children right now. Those that will grow up seeing how other kids live in other parts of the world. And one day they will want that for themselves and their children. It will take time and we probably won't see any significant changes in the next 3-4 decades.
You completely missed CJ's point. Although she made indirect reference to the government, she was referring to the country / culture / religion in general. When she said she was suggesting "that we shoot the guns at them," she was making an emotional case to eliminate the country / culture / religion as a whole - i.e. genocide. The idea of genocide being suggested in a television show with a supposed liberal viewpoint - caused a huge uproar at the time of the original broadcast. NBC downplayed it as "artistic license," but it still suffered the wrath of many from the ranks of moderate and liberal political activists. CJ did not advocate the overthrow of the Saudi government; she called for the ELIMINATION of Islam. From that time to this time, there has been an ever-growing segment of the western population who agree with that sentiment. Perhaps it is you who should grow up.
Resqwec The Point CJ was making was that if they HAD needed an airbase in Johannesburg, the US likely would have sold these same type of weapons to the South Africans and ignored what they were doing because it was strategically expedient
@@sovak75 I was arguing that they were doing that already. The US didn’t need a base in Johannesburg. However, because of South African anti-communism, they already were feeding the South Africans weapons and intelligence for many years. This is to also ignore the US’ importing of South African uranium
This is such brilliant writing and acting, I love this scene! A lot of people are missing the point of this scene in the comments. If this stirred a thought, makes someone question the status quo even a little bit, I think the writers would have achieved their purpose. What Aaron Sorkin was harkening to was probably this: There was a time once when the powerful countries stood up to injustice and questioned crimes against humanity when they could, but right now they're conveniently ignoring those very principles because it makes their job a little bit easier, and turn a blind eye towards an even bigger injustice.
I think people misinterpret Nancy's position. She's not in disagreement with CJ over her position. Is her solution that Nancy takes issue with. It wouldn't solve the problem CJ has. It would make us feel better but they'd still beat the the women and buy guns from someone else. Instead of "keeping our enemies closer" we would have only accomplished strengthening their relationship with other enemies and losing any influence over them we had
No, not in this scene. It seems reasonable that she would speak this way (and that's why Nancy is there). Before, when speaking with the veterans, that's what seems out of character to me.
It's fascinating how differently this plays in 2020. What seems to have been scripted as a liberal talking point might go down quite well at a Republican convention today.
This was a huge hit and tons of politicians say they watched it all the time. Sorkin has power, he just refuses to do anything with it because with great power comes great cash rewards if you don't rock the boat.
The West Wing and The Newsroom were Sorkin's idealized versions of The Presidency and media/journalism. In the West Wing they're always working from the moral high ground and everyone always has the best facts. In The Newsroom they're always able to get the story on time and get it essentially perfectly.
I would have really liked it if Nancy had told CJ that the weapons we sell have a secret 'kill switch' that allows us to render them inoperable any time we choose.
@@BradyPostma We're talking airplanes here. Almost completely computer-operated with systems designed by US defense contractors. Of course they could program a back door.
And, of course, they're complex enough to be insecure and hackable. The problems of a kill switch in a gun are scaled up with the rest of the weapon system to reach the complexity of a jet.
No we are not! That's what keeps the vicious cycle going: thinking Americans are the best at policing the world. There are 193 countries recognized by the United Nations. The odds are that we are not the only country with enough resources to shape geopolitics.
Its their country they can beat their women us foreign policy is like star treks prime directive they cannot interfere and it does suck why did they take this show off the air it was kool
This is one of the only times I found fault with Aaron Sorkin's dialogue. When Nancy says, "It's a big world and everyone has guns, and I am doing the best that I can." the final clause weakened her statement. That character isn't weak, she is pragmatic. I would ended the sentence at guns. "It is a big world, and everyone has guns." and just leave it at that. The difficulty of the situation is implied and obvious. But this is still amazing writing and acting by everyone in this scene.
That line was included for rhythm. It weaken nancy, imo, it was a concession that at that she agreed with CJ on the facts but not on her methods and had the added benefit of finishing the speech like completing a stanza of music..you're suggestion would've left it stunted and left us feeling unfulfilled.
*Shedding retroactivity:* Researching about the final season of ‘Quantico®’ brought me here. My, my... Is this the Best Mr Sorkin can do? Believe It Or Not: I'm a centre-leftist but given the man has a penchant for proselytising to viewers - I expected him to be more capable and certainly, intellectual.
@@waitingforgodot355 Anonymous Coward #_____ says what??? If you felt bad thinking I'm unfairly criticising your potential idol, the least you can do is to be civilly( _i.e._ not necessarily politely) honest.
If I were Commander in Chief, I’d give an option to that lady: go to the front lines as infantry with 1 mag into Qumar, or start putting the hammer down on anti-peace sentiment. I’m with CJ here
What is wrong with those people in middle Eastern. They should know they live in 20th century not 19 or 18th century. The great kingdom stories are just past people.
"It's a big world CJ and everyone has guns and I'm going the best I can." Fucking amen. CJ wants to go on a morality crusade through the world? When the caskets keep coming home with American dead and we realize that unless we stay there and keep dying forever these third worlders will go right on back to their old ways as soon as we leave then maybe she'll get the reality of the situation. I like CJ as a character, she's a great role model, but this scene is laughably naive from a woman with her experience. It's a mentality like this one, that we can gift countries democracy just from our intervention, that lead us to 15 years of "hearts and minds".
She knows that it's naive, she knows it will never happen, but there are only so much a person can take. She gets information, uncensored, every day and she is working in one of the few places that can stop this blood and desperation she sees on her pages every day. This was just an emotional outcry. Everyone has their limit at standing by and just watching...
+Murphy82nd Its not pointless to try, as a country our military in not our only might, our economic might is a great weapon when it come to teaching others a lesson. We could force the middle east to change it ways by stopping the sell of arms to them and getting off the oil we are so damn dependent upon. The people there want better for them self's if we just show them that are ways are better then we won't need nation building or pointless foreign invasion. We could do so much if we sustained ourselves and worked as one country. But right now we hate each other more then we hate isis.
OverLordthe 1st we already get the majority of our oil from not the Middle East. If we don't sell them weapons China or the Russian Federation or heck even European nations will be happy to do so (selling arms is one of the oldest businesses in human history). Economic sanctions haven't stopped the Russian Federation at all. As for the people wanting better for themselves, they don't have that luxury. They are more focused on just surviving day to day. We gave Iraq and Afghanistan the option of democracy and it still turned to shit. Their cultures need to change and that has to happen in its own time or it won't be successful as in many cases that requires them moving away from religious fundamentalism. Being an idealist isn't the worst thing, but being unable to accept reality is a problem.
Then, it comes to a point about those in Islamophobia. Always the ones up in arms calling for the ban of the religion, the ban of the Holy Book, the banning of any headscarf or veil, the condemnation and stigmatization of Muslims in the U.S., whether citizens or refugees, and those complaining that there isn't a rational discussion on "radical Islamism". Well, no shit. When you decide to get military bases, oil and key support from the Saudis, Bahrain, Omar, etc. and turn the other cheek while Riyadh funds al-Qaeda and al-Nusra to fight ISIS (all from the same sect of Islam, all coming at us and committing the atrocities that have happened within the past two or three years), you shouldn't be so fucking morally upset and shocked. It's that same thinking that has been shooting us in the arm
I really did not like Nancy's character, like at all. She never had a clear stance on anything and most of the time she walked into a scene she had to be the loudest and obnoxious in order to get attention. Not to mention when C.J. was talked, she looked completely uninterested in what she had to say.
First of all Qumar is not a real place in the world; it is a fictitious country. And to suggest that a made up country, with made up problems, makes the decades long white terrorism in South Africa look "minimal" by comparison is just white supremacist BS. Not only that, but a white woman trying to school a black woman about injustice is just plain ridiculous. Not the WW's finest hour; I don't give a damn how good of an actress the white woman is...
Yes, Qumar is a fictional country created by this series... but the fact is, there are abuses and atrocities going on in certain real countries and areas that are just as bad as apartheid was
![หมานแต่ผัวเขา - แสตมป์ โตเกียวมิวสิค [ OFFICIAL MUSIC VIDEO ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/m0g1TSBJPgo/mqdefault.jpg)
“Thank God we never had to refuel in Johannesburg!!!” Superb line.
Fun fact: The Americans had to refuel in Johannesburg. And did.
@@vhayes2257 refuel for what?
Odd she thought Nancy would set the building on fire for SA apartheid, but not for Qumari patriarchy. Nancy would be directly hit by both.
America didn't have to refuel in Johannesburg because the very people who ran the south Africa apartheid state were from the same evil land that the founders of USA and most of its presidents were descendants from. 😅
@@shakara123 most likely for anything pertaining to the Cold War. If memory serves the Africa’s and Latin America were kind of split as to whether they wanted to align with the West, the Soviets, or being completely neutral. I remember the possibility that South Africa would align with the Soviets was Ronald Reagan’s biggest excuse for not sanctioning The apartheid. Thank God we sanction them anyway. They can say whatever they want about the current government but the apartheid needed to end.
The most painful part about this scene is that they’re both right.
Nancy is only right in the fact the USA only needed Qumar because some of their enemies were some of our enemies, so we sell them guns and turn a blind eye to their extreme human rights abuses. CJ was in fact in the moral and ethical right.
No, the most painful part is thinking the National Security Advisor would ever have this conversation with the press secretary. Who the hell are we kidding?
Alison Janney does a fantastic job as usual but I'm also blown away by Anna Smith's portrayal of Nancy McNally. She never comes across as someone who is unsympathetic and with dialogue like this, that's a real danger.
Agreed. She just comes across as someone better at compartmentalizing and with a tighter grip on her emotions in this moment.
Allison Janney is simply the greatest actress ever, it's crazy that for 7 yeas she maintained the quality and consistency of her Performance as C.J.
This incredible scene is one of the many reasons Janney has FOUR Emmys for her role as CJ. And the writing is brilliant.
100%
Though I think she had a slight advantage at the Emmys because she was the only truly great female performance/character in the show (apart from Donna, but she probably didn't have quite enough to do). It didn't exactly have gender balance so Schiff, Spencer, Sheen and Whitford had to split their Emmys
I was always sad that CJ and Nancy weren't able to have more scenes together. I understand why they didn't, at least while CJ was still press secretary. Also, as a side note, I always wished CJ and Fitz had scenes together. The one scene I can think of with them together in the oval where Fitzwallace says "Claudia" and CJ responds with "Sailor" is amazing in just two words.
"Thank God we didn;t have to refuel in Johannesburg!!!!!"
POint and match!!
I love the line, "If we had sold A1 M1's to South Africa you would have set the building on fire. Thank God we never had to refuel I'm Johannesburg." The poignant point and counter point is what made The West Wing the smartest show on TV.
She won Best Lead Actress in a Drama a Series at the Emmys for the episode.
"Thank got we never needed to refuel in Johannesburg"
And there you have it in a nutshell. It's not about ethics. It's about convenience.
Alison Janney's greatest two minutes of her career. Another example why WW is one of the best shows of all time.
I know West Wing fans often say they wish we could have a president Bartlett. I'm pulling for a president Cregg.
Going to an East Hampton clambake is actually on my bucket list!
Brilliant... the only word for Allison Janney is brilliant. This is why she wins Emmy's!
I'm more impressed by how unphased (yet sympathetic) Nancy McNally tries to look in spite of CJ's grievances.
Its professionalism I mean we want to spread human rights but nobody wants a war to do it and unfortunately these countries who have poor human rights track record understand one thing and that force.
How can anyone NOT love the passion behind C J Cregg!!!!
Also fantastic was a moment after the cut here when Toby enters the briefing room from the rear to watch it unfold and, as CJ passes over the relevant item without raising an issue, he puts his hands to his heart as a gesture of gratitude. I always thought that was a brilliant touch which conveyed the same idea that came through between Nancy and CJ: it’s a dreadful, inescapable reality, and it’s uncomfortable but it needs to happen.
As good and as funny as Ms.Janney is on Mom. Every once in a while I like to check out a clip like this and remember how good she really is.
CJ’s character development through this show is second to none
Allison Janney should have won an Emmy just for that scene alone. Damn.
Well she did win it for this episode because her work throughout the whole story (including this scene) was outstanding
She did
That was two best friends trying to figure out what to do. Nancy just gave up she wanted to cry
Dr. McNally doesn't turn and walk away because she's pissed or she disagrees--she walks away because she has no answers. She's one of the brightest minds in that White House and she's got nothing more to offer. Our relationship with Saudi Arabia...I'm sorry, Kumar...is such a revolting necessary evil it makes my skin crawl.
Oh, no, CJ talks shit about Saudi Arabia too.
THANK YOU for putting this scene up online! I've been looking for it for sometime :)
Think of having to get amped up like this to do your job.
Janney is unreal.
Allison Janney is absolutely superb! No wonder she won 9 Emmy’s for her role.
CJ Rocks. One of the best TV characters of all time.
I wish this clip showed Toby's gesture to her professionalism. Really moving.
You just know that CJ revisited this issue when she was working with Franklin Horner and gave hell to the Santos/Baker administration over it.
Here’s my take: the point of this scene is that CJ is right and so is Nancy. To me, metaphor is that CJ and Nancy are the same person. A lot of long to stop harm at all cost but, at the same time, those people understand that politics, economics, and connivence limit our ability to do that and, sometimes, that’s the truth of the matter. To me, I feel the tension of both those beliefs deep inside my chest. Have a nice day!
God, how many years later and I still miss C.J.
Should have included the press conference. Her character control was excellent.
I always come back to this
I just want to give CJ a hug whenever I see this scene. :(
And this is why Allison has 4 primetime Emmy awards and 4 screen actors guild awards...
CJ had the knack of always being... right. They said Toby was Bartlett’s conscience. I think he should have looked more to CJ for that.
Curious to know what CJ thought of this issue when she became COS
God, this show: our ideal moral national compass in graphic form.
it is refreshing to imply the white house cares what happens to women on an individual basis even if it's in Qumar. It's naive to suggest it informs policy overseas.
I cry every single time.
I lived in Saudi Arabia for 5 years, made a lot of Saudi friends, but I saw that the problem extends far beyond their government.
Everything CJ said is correct, absolutely 100%, but what she ignores is this fact: the Saudi government isn't ruling a moderate, liberal, educated population.
- Almost all Saudis have a deep respect for the absolute authority of Islam and religious authority.
- Saudis would never democratically elect a liberal secular government.
- The only force or authority I ever saw in Saudi outside of government was their "religious police", they and other religious figures are the only people in the country who can speak out and influence public opinion, and if the government of Saudi Arabia falls, the new leaders will likely come out of that lovely circle of nutjobs.
This is not just my opinion, this is the opinion of many Saudi friends and coworkers I had, men and women, who all more or less agreed that liberal/secular Saudis represent a very quiet and statistically insignificant minority. I went there to work on the construction of the country's FIRST co-ed university, and the public outcry inspired by religious clergy was mind-numbing. When you'd tell people what you're working on, you get the dirtiest look sometimes, like you'd just told them you're pissing on their mom's grave or something.
So CJ's problem doesn't end with the government of Saudi Arabia. CJ's problem is with the culture of the vast majority of the people of Saudi Arabia. In that sense, why the hell should we want their regime to be overthrown? It's gonna be a failed state, hotbed for Islamic fundamentalism, and it's going to lockout access to the world's largest oil reserve, which would then be ripe for the picking by the Ayatollah's in Iran.
We don't pay them any foreign aid. We make a lot of money out of them. They give us access to their strategically located airspace and they host the United States fifth Naval fleet giving us critical access to the Persian Gulf. They don't threaten us or Israel. They are enemies with Iran. Why the hell would we want a regime change in Saudi Arabia?
You think the new guys are gonna be social liberals? You think they're gonna introduce progressive liberal democratic legislature? You think the girls in that school are gonna be saved? Were you inspired by how well it worked out in Syria, Libya, and Iraq?
We have to leave bad guys alone sometimes. We have to pick the lesser of two evils sometimes. We don't live in a perfect world. Grow up.
+pleasedontstalkme I hadn't thought of that at all. Very well put.
The best non-violent way of changing a society like Saudi Arabia is education and information. The world is getting smaller thanks to technology (internet, smartphones, tv) and more and more young saudi people see how people in USA and Europe live and the freedoms they enjoy. Sooner or later young saudi's will say "I want that, I should have that" and that will be the beginning.
ScarlettM They have that. They have one of the highest twitter penetration rates in the world, they're very tech savvy.
Know what a LOT of them use Twitter for? They find people posting liberal or atheist things and make hashtags demanding they be executed.
Those that are grown ups today will do that. It's too late for teach them new things. But I was talking about the next generation, those that are children right now. Those that will grow up seeing how other kids live in other parts of the world. And one day they will want that for themselves and their children. It will take time and we probably won't see any significant changes in the next 3-4 decades.
You completely missed CJ's point. Although she made indirect reference to the government, she was referring to the country / culture / religion in general. When she said she was suggesting "that we shoot the guns at them," she was making an emotional case to eliminate the country / culture / religion as a whole - i.e. genocide. The idea of genocide being suggested in a television show with a supposed liberal viewpoint - caused a huge uproar at the time of the original broadcast. NBC downplayed it as "artistic license," but it still suffered the wrath of many from the ranks of moderate and liberal political activists. CJ did not advocate the overthrow of the Saudi government; she called for the ELIMINATION of Islam. From that time to this time, there has been an ever-growing segment of the western population who agree with that sentiment. Perhaps it is you who should grow up.
Anyone have a link to what she does after this?
Okay anyone need any more proof that Alison Janney is one hell of an actress?
Oscar winner.
She should have walked into the briefing room and given the same speech to the press. Might have lost her job but would have been worth it.
C.J. always did know how to make a point.
This makes me sob.
That is one damn fine actor!!!!
CJ was everything.
The Americans never refuelled in Johannesburg, but they allowed Pretoria to help fight communist insurgencies in Angola and Mozambique.
Resqwec The Point CJ was making was that if they HAD needed an airbase in Johannesburg, the US likely would have sold these same type of weapons to the South Africans and ignored what they were doing because it was strategically expedient
@@sovak75 I was arguing that they were doing that already. The US didn’t need a base in Johannesburg. However, because of South African anti-communism, they already were feeding the South Africans weapons and intelligence for many years. This is to also ignore the US’ importing of South African uranium
Fantastic swipe at Saudi Arabia!
This is such brilliant writing and acting, I love this scene!
A lot of people are missing the point of this scene in the comments. If this stirred a thought, makes someone question the status quo even a little bit, I think the writers would have achieved their purpose. What Aaron Sorkin was harkening to was probably this: There was a time once when the powerful countries stood up to injustice and questioned crimes against humanity when they could, but right now they're conveniently ignoring those very principles because it makes their job a little bit easier, and turn a blind eye towards an even bigger injustice.
I still love this scene...This show was so cool!!!!!
I think this was one of the things that pushed Nancy to recommend attacking Qumar in "20 Hours in America".
I think people misinterpret Nancy's position. She's not in disagreement with CJ over her position. Is her solution that Nancy takes issue with. It wouldn't solve the problem CJ has. It would make us feel better but they'd still beat the the women and buy guns from someone else. Instead of "keeping our enemies closer" we would have only accomplished strengthening their relationship with other enemies and losing any influence over them we had
Its a tough scene to watch, knowing how many times the US. has done just that
Not at all, it's filled with hyperbole and hence: A soap-opera gold!
We got no clams in Easthampton
Very nice..
That still is a great scene and things are the same today in the world now!!!!
When CJ cries, everyone cries.
She's a fantastic actress in a fantastic show, but I think they went against character there, CJ rarely looses her cool.
mobiz711 She did, but only inver rare cases like this one. they did it here to show how deeply she (and assumably Sorkin) felt about it
Then that should say how much she's upset by all this.
No, not in this scene. It seems reasonable that she would speak this way (and that's why Nancy is there). Before, when speaking with the veterans, that's what seems out of character to me.
WOW.
It's fascinating how differently this plays in 2020. What seems to have been scripted as a liberal talking point might go down quite well at a Republican convention today.
In my own cynical sense, I would ask "how much oil are we getting from Qumar?"
"This is the real world..." Aaron Sorkin was full of misguided hope. Dreamers are only effective when they are powerful.
This was a huge hit and tons of politicians say they watched it all the time. Sorkin has power, he just refuses to do anything with it because with great power comes great cash rewards if you don't rock the boat.
The West Wing and The Newsroom were Sorkin's idealized versions of The Presidency and media/journalism. In the West Wing they're always working from the moral high ground and everyone always has the best facts. In The Newsroom they're always able to get the story on time and get it essentially perfectly.
Why is CJ lecturing Nancy? Its not like the situation of Qumari women is her fault.
I would have really liked it if Nancy had told CJ that the weapons we sell have a secret 'kill switch' that allows us to render them inoperable any time we choose.
Bwahahahahaha!
‘Homeland®’-style, eh? 😏
Sounds nice, but people are intelligent enough to buy the guns and remove the kill switches.
@@BradyPostma We're talking airplanes here. Almost completely computer-operated with systems designed by US defense contractors. Of course they could program a back door.
And, of course, they're complex enough to be insecure and hackable.
The problems of a kill switch in a gun are scaled up with the rest of the weapon system to reach the complexity of a jet.
There actually was a movie where that element WAS in play. Sadly, I don't wanna spoil the movie by naming it, but it dealt with nuclear missiles.
I love this scene...Yes, we still have many bases to refuel our jets....But our country is still the best country to try and help the world....
Uh-huh?
No we are not! That's what keeps the vicious cycle going: thinking Americans are the best at policing the world. There are 193 countries recognized by the United Nations. The odds are that we are not the only country with enough resources to shape geopolitics.
Its their country they can beat their women us foreign policy is like star treks prime directive they cannot interfere and it does suck why did they take this show off the air it was kool
This is one of the only times I found fault with Aaron Sorkin's dialogue. When Nancy says, "It's a big world and everyone has guns, and I am doing the best that I can." the final clause weakened her statement. That character isn't weak, she is pragmatic. I would ended the sentence at guns. "It is a big world, and everyone has guns." and just leave it at that. The difficulty of the situation is implied and obvious. But this is still amazing writing and acting by everyone in this scene.
That line was included for rhythm. It weaken nancy, imo, it was a concession that at that she agreed with CJ on the facts but not on her methods and had the added benefit of finishing the speech like completing a stanza of music..you're suggestion would've left it stunted and left us feeling unfulfilled.
grow up CJ
*Shedding retroactivity:* Researching about the final season of ‘Quantico®’ brought me here.
My, my...
Is this the Best Mr Sorkin can do?
Believe It Or Not: I'm a centre-leftist but given the man has a penchant for proselytising to viewers - I expected him to be more capable and certainly, intellectual.
@@waitingforgodot355 Anonymous Coward #_____ says what???
If you felt bad thinking I'm unfairly criticising your potential idol, the least you can do is to be civilly( _i.e._ not necessarily politely) honest.
Nancy is such a cold character
She has to be to do her job effectively
It's okay. She can cry about the women getting beaten.
Iran will still get it's check.
If I were Commander in Chief, I’d give an option to that lady: go to the front lines as infantry with 1 mag into Qumar, or start putting the hammer down on anti-peace sentiment. I’m with CJ here
I saw the person playing Nancy on The Practice. I didn't like her there, neither here
What is wrong with those people in middle Eastern. They should know they live in 20th century not 19 or 18th century. The great kingdom stories are just past people.
We got people in this country who want social policy to go back to the 18 or 1700s. So I'm not suprised.
"It's a big world CJ and everyone has guns and I'm going the best I can." Fucking amen. CJ wants to go on a morality crusade through the world? When the caskets keep coming home with American dead and we realize that unless we stay there and keep dying forever these third worlders will go right on back to their old ways as soon as we leave then maybe she'll get the reality of the situation. I like CJ as a character, she's a great role model, but this scene is laughably naive from a woman with her experience. It's a mentality like this one, that we can gift countries democracy just from our intervention, that lead us to 15 years of "hearts and minds".
She knows that it's naive, she knows it will never happen, but there are only so much a person can take. She gets information, uncensored, every day and she is working in one of the few places that can stop this blood and desperation she sees on her pages every day. This was just an emotional outcry. Everyone has their limit at standing by and just watching...
I get that, but that doesn't stop me from pointing out the consequences of that desperation/
+Murphy82nd Its not pointless to try, as a country our military in not our only might, our economic might is a great weapon when it come to teaching others a lesson. We could force the middle east to change it ways by stopping the sell of arms to them and getting off the oil we are so damn dependent upon. The people there want better for them self's if we just show them that are ways are better then we won't need nation building or pointless foreign invasion. We could do so much if we sustained ourselves and worked as one country. But right now we hate each other more then we hate isis.
OverLordthe 1st we already get the majority of our oil from not the Middle East. If we don't sell them weapons China or the Russian Federation or heck even European nations will be happy to do so (selling arms is one of the oldest businesses in human history). Economic sanctions haven't stopped the Russian Federation at all. As for the people wanting better for themselves, they don't have that luxury. They are more focused on just surviving day to day. We gave Iraq and Afghanistan the option of democracy and it still turned to shit. Their cultures need to change and that has to happen in its own time or it won't be successful as in many cases that requires them moving away from religious fundamentalism. Being an idealist isn't the worst thing, but being unable to accept reality is a problem.
Then, it comes to a point about those in Islamophobia. Always the ones up in arms calling for the ban of the religion, the ban of the Holy Book, the banning of any headscarf or veil, the condemnation and stigmatization of Muslims in the U.S., whether citizens or refugees, and those complaining that there isn't a rational discussion on "radical Islamism".
Well, no shit. When you decide to get military bases, oil and key support from the Saudis, Bahrain, Omar, etc. and turn the other cheek while Riyadh funds al-Qaeda and al-Nusra to fight ISIS (all from the same sect of Islam, all coming at us and committing the atrocities that have happened within the past two or three years), you shouldn't be so fucking morally upset and shocked. It's that same thinking that has been shooting us in the arm
I really did not like Nancy's character, like at all. She never had a clear stance on anything and most of the time she walked into a scene she had to be the loudest and obnoxious in order to get attention. Not to mention when C.J. was talked, she looked completely uninterested in what she had to say.
So it's McNally's fault because she's a black woman and should know better? Please.
+MrTibbsAfro Because she's the director of the NSA.
+MrTibbsAfro C.J. was simply trying to make a point, by comparing this situation to apartheid... and she was right, and it was a valid point...
First of all Qumar is not a real place in the world; it is a fictitious country. And to suggest that a made up country, with made up problems, makes the decades long white terrorism in South Africa look "minimal" by comparison is just white supremacist BS. Not only that, but a white woman trying to school a black woman about injustice is just plain ridiculous. Not the WW's finest hour; I don't give a damn how good of an actress the white woman is...
Yes, Qumar is a fictional country created by this series... but the fact is, there are abuses and atrocities going on in certain real countries and areas that are just as bad as apartheid was
no what's "ridiculous" is you getting all this up tight over a make believe TV show...Steve D
This idea of beaten women of qumar is as fictitious and unrealistic as the US so call "promoter of democracy" 😅