Ketosis and Depression: An inspiring personal story from Stanford's Healthcare Innovation Lab.
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 พ.ย. 2023
- Ben Rolnik lived with depression, thinking often about suicide, and even when he was doing well, he never knew if his day would get upended by depressive symptoms. That all changed when he found ketogenic therapy, and Ben has now put his depression symptoms into remission. Ben shares his dramatic story but also discusses his unique position as the Director of Stanford's Healthcare Innovation Lab and how he hopes studies will soon identify those who may benefit most from ketogenic therapy. But in the meantime, he wonders why everyone wouldn't try this for their depression.
Featured in this video:
Ben Rolnik
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/benrolnik/
Twitter/X: @BenRolnik
Follow our channel for more information and education from Bret Scher, MD, FACC, including interviews with leading experts in Metabolic Psychiatry.
About us:
Metabolic Mind™ is a nonprofit initiative incubated by Baszucki Group. Our mission is to provide education and resources in the emerging field of metabolic psychiatry, including ketogenic interventions for mental disorders.
JOIN OUR MAILING LIST AT metabolicmind.org/
Our channel is for informational purposes only. We are not providing individual or group medical or healthcare advice nor establishing a provider-patient relationship. Many of the interventions we discuss can have dramatic or potentially dangerous effects if done without proper supervision. Consult your healthcare provider before changing your lifestyle or medications.
#MetabolicMind
#KetoForMentalHealth
#MetabolicPsychiatry
#BipolarTreatment
#MetabolicNeuroscience
#KetogenicMetabolicTherapy
#DepressionTreatment
#NutritionalKetosis
#MentalIllnessTreatment
#MentalHealthIsMetabolicHealth
#DepressionDiet
I usually don't write comments... But I saw myself in Ben and I can totally relate to the topic. I've had a very similar story. Then started with keto, saw some improvements, but maybe 30%. Went a step further and gone to carnivore... And oh my god. That is something totally different. Best decision in my life. I am a new person. I am still "struggling" on how to "handle" myself as I am so different than before that I need some time to get used to the "new me". Carnivore gave me my life back.
That's amazing so happy for you!
This is a good change for you… 😊
That's so crazy, great to hear!
100% true story
The Democraps will see to it we all eat bugs, not beef, chicken, pork, etc. They will continue to eat as they wish, but will make the peasants fall into line. And before anyone pounces on me, know this…I am unaffiliated. NOT one or the other. Both parties are corrupt beyond measure and I refuse to be either one. “Eat zee bugs” is their insane war cry.
44 years ago, when I graduated in medicine, we were taught that depression came in various mixes of melancholic (biological) and psychgenic contributions. Each person had their own contributing factors. So good to have this validated and the hope of being to identify who will respond to what therapy
This moves the debate about carbs and depression from anecdotal to real.
are you being sarcastic?
how many stories do you need for the sarcasm to turn into curiosity?
Great for you, Ben! I have schizophrenia and I am reading Dr. Chris Palmer’s book. I just talked to my psychiatrist about making the switch to a keto diet. Thanks for the inspiring conversation!
Thank you for this interview. I lost both of my parents to suicide so I know that there is a strong possibility that I share the genetics for depression. I’m happy to hear that there is research being done to help people in the future. I know that the low carbohydrate diet has really helped me. Thanks again for sharing this message.
This makes so much sense to me. I was on antidepressants for 18 years. I got off of them when I realized that my emotions were flat and my creativity had fled. Most importantly, it never helped with the biggest driver of my mental health issues, mainly food insecurity. The poor diet only exacerbated my issues. I am grateful for all that I learned from Diet Doctor that helped me uncover the nutritional roots of my mental health issues and helped me find a good way to eat that improved my mental and physical health.
Did you taper?
HIs experience was like an exact replica to mine in the beginning.
The prior year (pre Jan 2022) I had a worsening downslide of depression and mental health issues. Some people online had anecdotes of improved clarity of mind on keto, so I thought why not. I had tried so many other things with limited success (exercise, nootropics, supplements, whole food diet, etc.).
10 days into keto (definitely an increase in depressive symptoms during that period, which I knew was possible) my brain just wakes up and fog finally clears. I finally had happiness, energy, clarity of mind, and hope that I had finally fixed the root cause of the problem.
Like Ben I was able to then tap further into exercise to keep the flywheel going since exercise had always been an important pillar of health. Luckily I don't have the acute slip into depression when eating too many carbs like Ben does, but I need to keep clear of any high amounts of sugar due to cravings and overeating.
Additionally I knew nothing of metabolic psychiatry before starting, it was just something that was worth trying. This makes me think it's not really some sort of placebo effect. Additionally I was already at a healthy weight and haven't really lost any weight on keto for the most part.
Afterwards I went on a journey to figure out "WTF happened?", and that is when I stumped across this emerging field of metabolic psychiatry and metabolic health in general.
Thanks again so much for all your guys work, and thanks Dr. Scher for all your podcasts, videos, and other tools that were instrumental for lots of success stories.
APOE 4/4 here as well for what it's worth and stumbled upon similar birds of a feather like Dr. Nick Norwitz in my searches for truth about how all these metabolic pieces fit together.
Wish I had done a lot more baseline bloodwork and other health reports beforehand to see where I was at prior to my keto journey, but oh well. I'm just glad I found a powerful tool to help myself and others.
Thank you for sharing your story. If you are open to it, we would be interested in interviewing you so more people can hear about your experience, Please email us at info@metabolicmind.org if you are interested. Thanks!
Do the interview buddy. Would be cool to hear.
Wow thank you so much for sharing your story. It sounds so much like my own dealing with bipolar disorder and discovering what keto/ketosis has been able to do. Hearing about your journey and seeing the similarities with mine is truly reassuring.
Thank you so much for sharing another amazing testimonial, Dr. Scher.
Ben, you're amazing to share your story! I was totally intrigued to listen to this, especially when I read in the show notes about your position as the Director of Stanford's Healthcare Innovation Lab.
I live an hour south of Stanford, in the Santa Cruz Mountains, and I've used a well-formulated vegan ketogenic diet for bipolar one triggered postpartum.
Incorporating ketogenic therapy into my life (in tandem with meds) has been an incredible, wonderful experience. (In the Bipolarcast podcast #23, you can learn about my experience.)
I wish you both the absolute best, and have a wonderful holiday!
Dyane
I’m so INTERESTED in this…THANK YOU!!! How can I speak about my journey? 🤞
Thanks Ben for sharing this amazing story. So many things get better. I loved your story about your wife's thoughts on whether or not you should eat carbs again. Awesome. Michael
Wow! What an incredible episode. I need to listen again and take notes. As I was listening to this episode, while working in the kitchen, I began to feel weak, sweaty, & dizzy. I thought surely my blood sugar was low, but it was 135…which is high for me, about 40% so. I can only attribute it to some ice cream I ate last night, more than 12 hrs ago! One day, maybe today, I will realize it’s not worth it, now and in the long run. Thanks again for such helpful content!
Right Way to go, ice cream is not a food it’s drug and we, as society, need to be loud about this so further generations can be better then us.
This interview is going to change lives. My mental health transformation on keto then carnivore was miraculous. It’s awesome to hear Ben’s perspective as a health professional and a recovering carb addict. His excellent description of his journey is truly inspiring and hopeful. THANK YOU, Dr. Sher!!!❤🎉
Didn’t you struggle with sleep at first ?
This was a brilliant brilliant interview. Ben is a charismatic speaker and his journey was extremely engaging. And he is not just a "common man" narrating how his keto journey turned around his life but is qualified enough to discuss the inner working of what happens inside the body as well as smart enough to see the "big picture" in how it will help humanity. Now if only the AMA and their ilk would get out of the way 😊
It’s just over three years now when I actively planned to end it all. My Service Dog Raider provided me with the example that, like him, there are many ready to welcome me home. Through research, I realized prescription drugs were part of my problem and a ketogenic lifestyle could be the answer. I’ve lost nearly 50 lbs, off all prescription medications and my desire to 0:03 give into my suicidal ideation nearly nonexistent. I am better equipped now to live a long, healthy and fulfilling life.
That's wonderful! Thank you for sharing.
Wow, awesome effort in improving your physical and mental wellbeing. Thanks for sticking around. 👍 🙂
Wow thank you for sharing! I’m trying to convert to this eating lifestyle forever.
Good job!!
This is great and yes I’ve spent 30 yrs searching for relief. Thank you❤ My son is 19 and has trouble remembering this and it makes him so mad
I know what it's like to be very discouraged from being a hemophiliac and also being addicted to carbs and not even know it. Physical limitations and employment almost out of the picture. Constant brain fog and attention span issues. Honestly the list can go on . However being carb free and sugar free has allowed me to experience the way all types of food effects the brain. With keto I am free of being over weight. Ketosis is very powerful. No drugs like it. It just simply has cleared my thinking process and has allowed me to focus free of fear.
My son has hemophilia A. He feels that the carnivore diet is helping him with bleeds.
@@lenorepaletta9267 that's great news. Sometimes a little edge can make a huge difference. Speaking for myself , an improvement to my outlook on life can open up new opportunities. God bless you and your family.
@@davidhayes7596 you too.
Thank you for sharing your story!
This! This has been my experience!
Thank you so much for sharing this interview with us .
Thank you Ben for sharing :)
Very inspiring, thank you truly
Thank you so much for this
Inspirational interview thanks
What a beautiful discussion!
Thank you for the video
Thank you, Ben, for such an impactful personal testimonial, and for your powerful vision of a future with drastically reduced suffering as a result of metabolic interventions paired with precision medicine. So encouraging!
This interview answered a question I had about whether other people could feel an impact the next day after eating carbs. I was on keto for a year and half and felt it cured my depression. It was exactly what Ben describes. Completely life changing. My energy level was through the roof and I felt like I could stay on keto for life. I then started having some breakthrough depression. it's possible that I wasn't being as strict as I thought. Then my cholesterol went up over 400 and I felt that I had to change my diet. I'm researching now on whether I can go back on it.
Thank you! Ben, when you talked about not being able to plan the future... and now being able to take trips and without worrying about how you'd manage, that resonated with me. I'm struggling from benzo withdrawal (year five... ahhh) and I started the ketogenic diet a month ago. I'm starting to believe I have a future that includes traveling without fear of complete, acute suffering far from home. I'm really hopeful I can biohack my way back to a healthy brain like you have. Your story gives me hope. Thank you, Metabolic Mind, for your work! I'm feeling better! I've got a long way to go, but I'm believing this will continue to help me.
Thank you for sharing your experience with us, and we're so glad to hear that you're feeling better :)
I appreciate this discussion very much. This is my story too, only mine was directly correlated to my monthly cycle (PMDD). I spent decades in turmoil, but I am eternally grateful for this WOE!!
Hi. How old are you? Can you please list the foods you eat. My period time is hard emotionally. Im 42.
@@aprilhassell1747 I eat very low, almost no carbs, no sugars, no seed oils. I eat beef, lamb, pork( limited), bacon, eggs, I also eat dairy, I’ve heard some people can’t tolerate it, but I can in small amounts. My diet would definitely lean toward carnivore, because it helps a lot with the addictive nature of food in my life. Hope this helps!😊
@@aprilhassell1747I’m 53 years old
@cherylcore7053 yes it doesn't. Appreciate you♡...i think because of the fact I've stopped adhd meds. ER ritalin or concerta thats the true reason im suffering at period time. Im 5 months off for the second time.withdrawl symptoms the hardest part. Its a long story. But many months ago I stopped seed oils from reading Deep Nutrition book. Lowered my triglycerides, then went gluten free, cheated a few times, now trying keto and carnavore. I eat eggs, ribeye, baked chicken wings, grass fed ground beef, butter, olive oil because its imported from greece, spain, Italy 🇮🇹,, tallow blueberries, strawberries, deli meat, stir fry of keto veg, sometimes i have organic whole milk to swallow liver pills or magnesium supplement, pumpkin seeds, sunflower seeds, Ive done this all for brain health not to lose weight. Have you always suffered with hormone fluctuations at period time?
@@aprilhassell1747 I have had it since I was 17… it has been a long road. If you’re interested to hear my story, I was on Dr. Shawn Baker’s podcast… I believe the title of it was ‘Have You Heard Of This’( which addresses my severe cycle issues). I have found by controlling my diet, I have been able my symptoms by SO much, it’s been night and day! So grateful!🙏.
Great content. 2 bones to pick: 1) I;m exhausted by the number of times the guest said "like" ( 206! times from the halfway mark!!!!) , very distracting. 2 )at 37:10 he refers to "normal" kids, I'd argue we ARE "normal" it's the SAD that is wrong and causing so many problems for so many of us, just as it did for the guest
A big irritation of mine is when people point out studders, pauses, sounds or words people make when they're processing information in order to verbalize it. 😉
- Sincerely, an AuDHD person who struggles with some verbal communication.
Bret, just gotta say: You're doing a fantastic job man, great interviewer! And what a wonderful story. I see so much of myself in Ben.
Thank you!
I'm absolutely biogenic depression and hope buproprion will help. Literally i feel how the lights in my brai don't light up, how relevant neurons for enjoyment somehow are missing. I really hope it can give me an aid. Already on keto and stuff but it ain't enough. (Yet?)
Thank you both, Ben I totally connect with your life experiences. This conversation has been very helpful. Now I have to understand how to get myself into ketosis? What do I eat???
Here's a good introductory guide from Diet Doctor that may. help www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/keto/foods
Thank you for the link! I'm on it!
This resonates so much!!! I suffered from major depression since I was a teenager. I found myself pregnant at 40. Became sober and tried an SSRI. Along with a great therapist this has helped A LOT. But I still get depressed. It's so frustrating. I feel like I am doing all the right things and as a single mom I cannot afford being depressed. I've been coming across this information for the last 3 weeks. My one concern is would this react badly to Hashimoto? And is it long-term?
Thanks for your comment and question. Many people have used ketogenic therapy for years with continued benefits. How long someone stays on it and how it interacts with other health conditions is very individualized. That's why we strongly encourage working with an experienced clinician. This is a good site to search for trained clinicians. www.diagnosisdiet.com/directory
@@metabolicmind aww thank you so much for this reply. I will definitely discuss this with my GP but not sure how knowledgeable he will be. I live in a remote area of Canada and there is not too much available... Or people... Or stores lol but I will search!!
Does Ben have his own channel?
The change of diet, and mindfulness helped a lot, a mindfulness book called 30 Days to Reduce Depression by Harper Daniels I find to be very useful.
What was he eating before the kero?
How do we learn how to get into and stay in ketosis - I have the ketone breathe meter and I can’t get above 3
Low carb high fat
Here's a good general guide about what foods are best when trying to stay in ketosis. www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/keto/foods Hope that helps!
Why is it that some people can eat carbs and unhealthy snacks all day and never feel depressed or anxious?
Thats a great question. Few thing, if any, are 100% in health and medicine. It is likely a combination of genetic susceptibility and other lifestyle factors. Plus much more that we don't know! But for those who do feel depressed and anxious and feel better with keto, it can be a life changer.
@metabolicmind I am going to try strict keto once this season is over. Had started it for a bit but Christmas came along. Thank you.
What about dopamine going below baseline line from carb responses. And that might be cause of low energy and mood. Anna Lempke Dopamine Nation book. Pain pleasure balance
Dr. Kelly Brogan. Your welcome.
❤
I'm 59. I was diagnosed/labeled with depression at the age of 13. I tried to Ketogenic diet for quite sometime a few years ago. Three things happened:
1) When in ketosis, I DID feel a certain kind of "brain energy"
2) I got fat
3) It did nothing to alleviate depression.
That sucks I wonder why
So Sorry to hear that. If you are ever up for trying it again, it may be worth working with a trained clinician who may be able to tailor things specifically for you to see if you have a different outcome. Check out www.Diagnosisdiet.com/directory if you are interested.
@@metabolicmind So, you're saying I "didn't do the diet right"? Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result. I just lost 45 lbs. in 16 months on the Zone Diet. I'd hate to change what I am doing. The weight has stabilized but the bodyfat keeps coming off. Does nothing for the depression and I don't believe any diet will.
You can't diet away the crap your parents put in your head at an early age.
@@firebird7479Don't forget that there can be different causes for depression . A circumstancial cause like bereavement ,for example , may respond to one thing. An organic cause of depression ,like Insulin Resistance /leaky gut , may respond better to a ketogenic diet . Its worth trying keto/carnivore in order to see how a condition might respond .If it doesn't work ,we can then try something else ,.... like you did.
Zone in my experience is a great diet. I'm sorry it didn't help with depression. @@firebird7479
Im a 46 year old obese black grandmother raising my grandkids alone. Ive been so depressed I've hoped and prayed someone would murder me and have purposely put myself in harns way. Ive hated being alive since early childhood due to childhood trauma, adult trauma, and genes. Started Keto last Friday and finally feeling ok, plus am down 9 pounds. I can describe my depression as feeling like the walking dead, and I've dreadfully wanted so badly to be dead. Ive tried so many meds including adderall and ritalin and med combos and none helped much except for with my Insomnia mainly. Its only been 6 days and hopefully its not just my imagination, but i dont feel like I'm m half dead, I have more energy, and am starting to feel like I can possibly beat depression soon. Im not happy to live necessarily, but im not feeling every moment like i wish someone would put me out my misery.
I'm doing keto, intermittent fasting, and drinking black coffee 2 x day.
I pray everone here has some relief from their suffering!!
Are yiu still on ritialn? Praying for you today!
@@aprilhassell1747 Hello. No, Ritalin was years ago. I only use black coffee now, and when my Insomnia flares up I use Remeron for sleep. Honestly the keto diet and fasting help me out of my depression. I've been doing it for about 2 weeks now but I feel so much better. When from many MANY suicidal ideations to almost no depression. I'm going to stick with this!! ❤️ How are you?
Keep going. I was suicidal and went carnivore and after one month, there is already a big difference in my mood. We are all healing together and you can be strong and teach better health to your grandchildren.
@@priscillalowery5109 I'm 25 pounds down. Not following any strict diet regimen or taking any medications. Solely relying on prayer for about 6 weeks after eventually having panic attacks during a four day fast while on medication. So far so good. 🙏🏾😇
I appreciate the aspect that bio-genics are helpful. But we can't limit ourselves into believing only one thing is going to cure mood disorders. Therapy and energetic modalities blended with nutrition is a better approach to addressing mood disorders.
We agree that ketogenic therapy should play an important role in a comprehensive treatment strategy. Thanks for your comment!
What is the genotype he mentions? Was it EPO4?
Yes, APOE4
Not having any family makes things much more difficult...
Not having even a friend to share the real feelings, is a horror movie...
Fasting Insulin testing is the key here - I'm involved in development of an easy & quick home test for this if anyone is interested
Mmmm, pumpkin pie.
Transplanting new, healthier mitochondria without mutations, then we work to reproduce them
You know
Am i the only one who struggles with sleep on carnivore / keto ?
Disrupted sleep is not uncommon while in ketosis. Some people can "back load" their carbs later in the day to help their sleep and maintain ketosis. Here's an article that may have some helpful tips. perfectketo.com/keto-insomnia/
@@metabolicmind thanks. Shouldn’t it improve naturally over time given ketosis is more likely than not the baseline human state ?
For many people, it will improve over time. But interestingly, not for everyone. It could be related to our genetic-environmental mismatch in the modern world.
@@metabolicmind What do you mean by that ?
I haven't tried keto but I've heard that sleep is affected. There are other important things you could try like getting 30 mins of sunshine when you wake up in the morning, will help your body send stronger hormone release to promote sleep at night, if you haven't heard of that already.