as a Georgian, considering how Russia has been using Christianity as a espeionag tool and disrespecting it in every manner possible, Russian Patriarchate shouldn't be allowed/tolerated anywhere especially countries that are getting bombed by Russia, not a single person in Georgia respects Russian church and fairly so.
Ye are thinking as men do and not as God does brother. The West has entirely weaponized faith against its enemies and seeks to have schism in the Church of Christ.
@StudyBuddy-jj5pb Exactly brother. You as a Georgian has known first-hand how ROC & the Kremlin weaponise Church as a tool in their unholy imperial war of annihilation against their own Orthodox neighbours. Only neighbours of Russia know the actual extent of evil and poison in this Russian world.
when the American embassy tells you that you have to establish an autocephalous church...for the sake of American interests......Why are they in Montenegro. ..financed independence From the Serbian Orthodox Church...there are no Russians there..?!?!?....it is done according to the same system...to break the church into smaller entities that can be politically managed
Hahaha! It is so very amusing and fascinating to see so many online Serb warriors who are so dedicated to the Moscovite-generated conspiracy theories (i.e., Kremlin disinfo filth) hahaha... You lot i.e, online Serb Ortho-bro warlocks are more loyal to Kremlin disinfo networks than many Russians I must say. So many Russians are quite immune to the conspiracy propaganda shit that emanates from their own state i.e., illegitimate regime in Moscow because they have had too many of them everyday. Not you ppl man... more loyal to 'Russian stories' than Russians themselves hahaha!
Hahaha! It is so very amusing and fascinating to see so many online Orthobro warriors who are so dedicated to the Moscovite-generated conspiracy theories (i.e., Kremlin disinfo filth) hahaha... You lot i.e, online Ortho-bro warlocks are more loyal to Kremlin disinfo networks than many Russians I must say. So many Russians are quite immune to the conspiracy propaganda shit that emanates from their own state i.e., illegitimate regime in Moscow because they have had too many of them everyday. Not you ppl man... more loyal to 'Russian stories' than Russians themselves hahaha!
His Eminence must be confused . None of the bishops in Ukraine who participated in the 2019 “tomos” (Epiphony, Denisenko, Macarius of Lviv) were ordained by what would later be known as the Ukrainian Church under the EP. Of those 3 ; Filaret Denysenko was a disgraced Metropolitan from the Moscow Patriarchate who upon losing the election schismed and was considered a heretic by Pat Bartholomew until 2018. Epiphanius was ordained by Filaret after he was canonically defrocked . Macarius of Lviv was considered schismatic universally, he appealed to the Ukrainians in the US under the EP in 1990 and was told to kick rocks because no one had validly ordained them. One of these characters had any valid ordinations and he was a DEFROCKED metropolitan that everyone knew. May God help you
You are the one clearly being confused here. Former Metropolitan of the Russian Church in Kyiv (UOC MP) Filaret Denysenko was never ever called a heretic by the Ecumenical Patriarchate at any point in history. He and his followers (former UOC KP) along with the Macarios Meletych and his followers (former UAOC) were in schism from the canonical universal Orthodoxy by separating themselves from the Russian Church in Ukraine in the past because of their just struggle for Ukrainian Orthodox autocephalous church which is free from the political and ideological control of the imperial Church of Moscow i.e., Church of the Kremlin (sadly because there was no other Orthodox canonical church alternatives for them in Ukraine at that time). If you are half as educated as you claim to be, you will learn very well that the terms "schism" (church division) and "heresy" (deviation from truth) are two completely different categories. Do not mix up these two terms. Not all schisms in the history of the Church occur because of heresy. Sometimes schisms simply occur due to political, administrative, cultural/ ethnic/ nationalistic differences. In fact, most of the newer autocephalous Orthodox churches begin their struggle for their own church autocephaly by initial self-declaration of their autocephaly and thus finding themselves in schism from their own mother churches for a long time (i.e., they became schismatics in the eyes of their mother church), and not because of any known heresy as such. This is true of the churches of Russia, Bulgaria, Greece, Serbia, Romania, Albania, Ukraine, and North Macedonia (also true of the former Russian Metropolia in America known today as OCA). Do you know that your own beloved Russian church who so hypocritically accused the autocephalous movement in Ukraine today as schismatic (and sometimes also as heretical... which is nonsense) has also been schismatic for 141 years?! They unilaterally declared autocephaly from their own mother church of Constantinople and when Constantinople refused to quickly satisfy their demands for autocephaly (despite Moscovites using all kinds of coercion, blackmail, & threats against the Ecumenical Patriarchate), they found themselves in schism from their mother church for a good 141 years! So really, the Russian Church was the original schismatic church for a much longer period than anyone other modern autocephalous church by far. And how do these Russian schismatics came back into communion with universal canonical Orthodox Church once again? By the decisions of their mother church, the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople, who restore them to proper canonical order by applying 'ikonomia' or pastoral concession instead of strict 'akrivia', without demanding any open declaration of repentance or asking forgiveness etc., and simply by the synodal patriarchal act of Constantinople that resulted in concelebration of hierarchs. Therefore, Russian church and their propagandists calling Ukrainian Orthodox autocephalists schismatics is simply a case of 'a pot calling the kettle black'. In fact, it is downright cynical and malicious since they are surely using this double-standards to gain political advantage.
Doesn’t the invasion of chersonesus break the treaty which made Moscow orthodox in the first place. It belongs in the west like it always was before Turks and Russians
as a Georgian, considering how Russia has been using Christianity as a espeionag tool and disrespecting it in every manner possible, Russian Patriarchate shouldn't be allowed/tolerated anywhere especially countries that are getting bombed by Russia, not a single person in Georgia respects Russian church and fairly so.
Ye are thinking as men do and not as God does brother. The West has entirely weaponized faith against its enemies and seeks to have schism in the Church of Christ.
Nut I believe Patriarch Ilya took russian position on this matter
@StudyBuddy-jj5pb Exactly brother. You as a Georgian has known first-hand how ROC & the Kremlin weaponise Church as a tool in their unholy imperial war of annihilation against their own Orthodox neighbours. Only neighbours of Russia know the actual extent of evil and poison in this Russian world.
when the American embassy tells you that you have to establish an autocephalous church...for the sake of American interests......Why are they in Montenegro. ..financed independence From the Serbian Orthodox Church...there are no Russians there..?!?!?....it is done according to the same system...to break the church into smaller entities that can be politically managed
Hahaha! It is so very amusing and fascinating to see so many online Serb warriors who are so dedicated to the Moscovite-generated conspiracy theories (i.e., Kremlin disinfo filth) hahaha... You lot i.e, online Serb Ortho-bro warlocks are more loyal to Kremlin disinfo networks than many Russians I must say. So many Russians are quite immune to the conspiracy propaganda shit that emanates from their own state i.e., illegitimate regime in Moscow because they have had too many of them everyday. Not you ppl man... more loyal to 'Russian stories' than Russians themselves hahaha!
Hahaha! It is so very amusing and fascinating to see so many online Orthobro warriors who are so dedicated to the Moscovite-generated conspiracy theories (i.e., Kremlin disinfo filth) hahaha... You lot i.e, online Ortho-bro warlocks are more loyal to Kremlin disinfo networks than many Russians I must say. So many Russians are quite immune to the conspiracy propaganda shit that emanates from their own state i.e., illegitimate regime in Moscow because they have had too many of them everyday. Not you ppl man... more loyal to 'Russian stories' than Russians themselves hahaha!
His Eminence must be confused . None of the bishops in Ukraine who participated in the 2019 “tomos” (Epiphony, Denisenko, Macarius of Lviv) were ordained by what would later be known as the Ukrainian Church under the EP. Of those 3 ; Filaret Denysenko was a disgraced Metropolitan from the Moscow Patriarchate who upon losing the election schismed and was considered a heretic by Pat Bartholomew until 2018. Epiphanius was ordained by Filaret after he was canonically defrocked . Macarius of Lviv was considered schismatic universally, he appealed to the Ukrainians in the US under the EP in 1990 and was told to kick rocks because no one had validly ordained them. One of these characters had any valid ordinations and he was a DEFROCKED metropolitan that everyone knew. May God help you
You are the one clearly being confused here. Former Metropolitan of the Russian Church in Kyiv (UOC MP) Filaret Denysenko was never ever called a heretic by the Ecumenical Patriarchate at any point in history. He and his followers (former UOC KP) along with the Macarios Meletych and his followers (former UAOC) were in schism from the canonical universal Orthodoxy by separating themselves from the Russian Church in Ukraine in the past because of their just struggle for Ukrainian Orthodox autocephalous church which is free from the political and ideological control of the imperial Church of Moscow i.e., Church of the Kremlin (sadly because there was no other Orthodox canonical church alternatives for them in Ukraine at that time).
If you are half as educated as you claim to be, you will learn very well that the terms "schism" (church division) and "heresy" (deviation from truth) are two completely different categories. Do not mix up these two terms. Not all schisms in the history of the Church occur because of heresy. Sometimes schisms simply occur due to political, administrative, cultural/ ethnic/ nationalistic differences.
In fact, most of the newer autocephalous Orthodox churches begin their struggle for their own church autocephaly by initial self-declaration of their autocephaly and thus finding themselves in schism from their own mother churches for a long time (i.e., they became schismatics in the eyes of their mother church), and not because of any known heresy as such. This is true of the churches of Russia, Bulgaria, Greece, Serbia, Romania, Albania, Ukraine, and North Macedonia (also true of the former Russian Metropolia in America known today as OCA).
Do you know that your own beloved Russian church who so hypocritically accused the autocephalous movement in Ukraine today as schismatic (and sometimes also as heretical... which is nonsense) has also been schismatic for 141 years?! They unilaterally declared autocephaly from their own mother church of Constantinople and when Constantinople refused to quickly satisfy their demands for autocephaly (despite Moscovites using all kinds of coercion, blackmail, & threats against the Ecumenical Patriarchate), they found themselves in schism from their mother church for a good 141 years! So really, the Russian Church was the original schismatic church for a much longer period than anyone other modern autocephalous church by far.
And how do these Russian schismatics came back into communion with universal canonical Orthodox Church once again? By the decisions of their mother church, the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople, who restore them to proper canonical order by applying 'ikonomia' or pastoral concession instead of strict 'akrivia', without demanding any open declaration of repentance or asking forgiveness etc., and simply by the synodal patriarchal act of Constantinople that resulted in concelebration of hierarchs.
Therefore, Russian church and their propagandists calling Ukrainian Orthodox autocephalists schismatics is simply a case of 'a pot calling the kettle black'. In fact, it is downright cynical and malicious since they are surely using this double-standards to gain political advantage.
Doesn’t the invasion of chersonesus break the treaty which made Moscow orthodox in the first place. It belongs in the west like it always was before Turks and Russians