I have a recommendation for when you run the Audyssey calibration. When you are doing the measurements, do your normal process but when it comes to the last two measurements (#7 and #8) instead of measuring in a seat or in front or behind one, place the microphone exactly where your ears would be in your Main Listening Position (Right ear then left ear. Microphone maybe 12" apart at maximum) Give that a try and see if it improves the result a bit. If you do this, let us know what you experience. I'm curious if you'll hear what I hear when I do that.
@FURognar do you know how these new Denon's perform in pre out mode? I am looking at a budget option in upgrading my current processor and moving towards Atmos in my theater. I am also considering the A6A but can't find any info on that model.
@@percybedford6266 not sure how it functions from a practical sense because I havent used a Denon that has a Pre-out mode yet (mine is from 2016. Looking to upgrade it soon probably the 6800) but I know spec-wise if you put the Denon in Pre-Amp mode, clipping rises from about 1.4 volts to over 2 volts. I believe some have measured as high as 4 volts before clipping (not sure how much distortion is introduced though) I will be playing with that myself once I upgrade because I am thinking of going full preamp mode with it.
@@FURognar okay, I am currently running 7.1 in my theater with the old XMC 1. I am looking to upgrade because I want to expand to 11.1. Emotiva has a really nice sound, but their products tend to lack in other areas. They are supposed to be getting new processors but no word on when they will be available so I am looking at something more budget friendly.
@@percybedford6266 my recommendation is the Denon X3800H or X4800H. You can use external amps to push them to 11.4 channels. The others are good too, but none can match the features of Denon and Marantz. For pure sound quality though, check out Anthem, such as the Anthem MRX-740. It has 7 built in amps, but can use external amps up to 15.2 channels of processing. The problem is that it doesnt have the number of features of the Denon, but Anthem Room Correction really focuses on sound quality, though to be fair, the Denon can use either Dirac or MultEQ-X. So cost to performance, go for the X3800, or for sound quality, look at Anthem.
Very interesting approach. I am curious about what to expect, but it is better that I go into it blind to see if I arrive at the same conclusion. Not sure when I will get to that test as I have Direct and the new Bass Control options to play with first. Also I with test with Joe ‘n Tell’s Magic Beans calibration. So lots to explore. Thanks for the tip. -Jon
Hey Jon, just wondering did you ever add wide's to your set up, if you did have you noticed a big difference? A lot of people seem to think they're a pretty good upgrade since humans are much more sensitive to sounds happening in front of them.
Yes, as a temporary configuration. I currently using a set of old bookshelf speakers from Monitor Audio and powering with AV Receivers under review - current Denon AVR-X6800H. I just ordered another Emotiva XPA-DR2 to power so I can run the front wides from AV Processors as well, including my Emotiva RMC-1. I think it adds a lot to the experience. It is noticeable. Looking forward to having a more proper setup. Next step is to use better speakers. Jon
Jon, I was planning to wait for this review to make a move but I got antsy and received my AVR-X6800H yesterday and set it up. It is replacing an AVR-X6700H. My set up is identical to yours except I do not have front wide speakers. I have a 7.2.4 configuration with all Klipsch speakers. I am using a Monolith 11 channel amplifier to drive all my speakers. Denon told me that I could use the backup from my AVR-X6700H to set up my 6800H but that does not work. The receiver would not let me use the stored configuration. One thing I think they need to change is that they only offer 2 options for the placement of subwoofers. I have both of mine in the rear and that is not an option with this setup. So far, I am delighted and have purchased Dirac Live with bass and full bandwidth. I will set that up on Friday. Thanks again for your tremendous efforts.
If you have three rows of height speakers, you should be able to use them just fine. Just set the middle pair to "top middle". This also makes it possible to have that pair act as VOG in Auro. Works with the X6700H as well.
But with Most movies only the middles or Front and Back are used .There are Some Mixes Like Gravity and Mad Max,that have Sort of dynamic atmos..I have a Cinema 50 and would Like to make a top middle pair to my front heights and rear Heights.I could also make a second configuration with 5.2.6 and 5.2.4.
@@texxhexxmm the standard Atmos studio config is 7.1.4, so that's what most content is made for. If you have 6 heights, your AVR will make use of that extra pair when objects are used and when you use DSU. There are plenty of Atmos mixes that use objects.
I use external streaming devices in preference to those built into the TV. They also seem to work better for me. Each streaming app in a TV is different. Check the settings to see if there is a way to enable ARC and multi-channel output. -Jon
Yes. There are a few approaches. Option 1 is to go with the traditional side surround channels. For Option 1, I would place the side surrounds a little behind the first row, but in front of row 2. That would give row 1 a little better experience. For Option 2, you could introduce a second pair of side surrounds. However, those would have to be wired to the same pre-out using at least 2-channels of external amplification. The speaker configuration in the unit does not let you design two sets of side surrounds as with a premium Trinnov or Storm Audio processor. When calibrating the two left (and then two right) side surround would be at the same volume and calibration. I don't recall the Denon manual covering your use case. They do cover 2 or 3 rows of height channels; so for height speaker positioning, you should have their guidance. -Jon
Can you connect all your speakers first and then run set-up? It will be difficult for me to run set-up and getting to back panel connecting each speaker one at a time. Thanks for the great review.
Certainly. That is how I do it. The wizard to the end is not practical. The one at a time approach assumes the back of the receiver is accessible. If you have an equipment rack that is reachable from behind - that is ideal and can align with the wizard. -Jon
You almost answered my question in the video but I can't find this information in the manual or the forums. I want to use the front wides and 6 heights (atmos). I'd give up the rear surrounds. I have a separate 7-channel amp I will use. So the question is, is it a processing limitation or an amp limitation that when you choose 6 heights, it turns off the front wides? I am hoping I won't need to save to save up for the A1H because the 8500 had this same limitation.
It is my understanding that the Denon AVR-X6800H supports 17 channels of processing for up to 7.4.6 or 9.4.4 speaker layouts. While front wides and 6 height (3 rows) are supported, you cannot configure both within the same speaker preset. For example, you may have present 1 configured for 7.2.6 and present 2 configured for 9.4.4 and you will be able to swap between the two presents. However, you will not be about to configure a preset for a 9.4.6 speaker layout. That would require a receiver that supports 19 channels, like the AVR-A1H or the Marantz AV10 processor. -Jon
@@ripewave Thanks for the information. It appears that the same restriction exists with the Cinema 30 . I've heard some folks mention that rear surrounds are less important with 6 atmos, but with up-mixing the front-wides are nice. Do you think it makes sense to choose between rear surrounds and 6 atmos instead of front-wides?
Excellent presentation. I'm curious.... since you set the subs to directional front/rear do the rear subs play when you listen to a stereo source in stereo mode? If not is there an option to have it use the rear sub in stereo mode?
On my x6700H... I've recently been having some strange HDMI / No Sound / Power Off ? flashing red light ... issue. I like the newer WebUI features on the 6800 .. I wonder if I can find some reason of settings for why my sound some times gets all messed up with playing from the xbox. .. The black screen flicker and all the handshakes in the HDMI chain is SOO annoying. I can't wait until we get something universal.
Sorry to hear about the odd behaviors you are experiencing. Xbox HDMI issues - yes HDMI is very tricky and after years since v2.1 release there is still inconsistent implementations. I would start by testing your HDMI cables using the Denon cable check utility. After that every component is the chain needs to play nice with compatible settings. -Jon
Yes - for one row of ceiling speakers Denon let’s you configure as Top Front (ceiling). The issue is when you multiple rows and a Top Center and/or Front Centrr Height speaker and Denon forces you to configure the front and rear channel as wall mounted “Heights” -Jon
Yes. But I find the lack of marketing or mention in the manual or even the user interface very odd. My ability to confirm only comes from the FAQ section of the product webpage where Denon answers directly: A: Hello, Yes - the AVR-X6800H does support DTS-X Pro. Denon Response 3 months ago Jon
I believe they are close sonically l, but I haven’t run my sound analysis yet. Feature set is the same, with the exception of the extra channels of processing, amplifiers count and more power per channel. -Jon
Question....is this worth an upgrade from a 3800 to have a 1 box solution, or should I just add a 3 or 5 channel amp for LCR or Base speakers to the 3800 for increased dynamic performance? Either way it would cost the same. (Really don't have the space for the added component) Running a 5.2.4. setup.
As I understand your options for your 5.2.4 setup are: Option 1 - Upgrade 3800 to 6800 Option 2 - Keep 3800, but add 3-5 channel external amplifier The extra channels in the 6800 are not needed if you plan to stay with the 5.2.4 speaker layout. There is a noticeable sound performance increase when moving from the 3800 to the 4800 (I tested last year). I am testing the 6800 against my Cinema 50 (which is very close to the 3800 in regards to sound quality). Once I have that result, I can better advice you on whether the 6800 provides enough sound improvement over the 4800 to justify the additional cost. The 4800 has enough channels and will improve you results. The external amps will also help. Those amps are more noticeable if your speakers are not efficient and require a lot of power. Jon
@@ripewave 4 ohm rated monolith thx365t as base speakers, thx365c for center i figure a upgrade to amp power in the 1 box solution or just add an external amp even though i have no space so that’s why i considered the 1 box solution. WAF really wants everything in the same cabinet….
With an sensitivity of 89db, the those speakers have an efficiency a little lower then the medium, so they could benefit from some more power. The power options are X3800 = 105W ($1,700) X4800 = 125W ($2,500) X6800 = 140W ($3,500) I find that is you want more power, increasing 5-30W isn’t going to be that noticeable. Given that your focus on the x6800 may be better then the x4800 for you. You just need to be okay with spending $1,000 more to increase 15W. The external amp is the more economical approach, but if you don’t have the room, that is not an option. Jon
Do you feel the 3800 is a bit lacking and you are wondering if an amp would help? Conversely, are you wondering if upgrading to just a plain better sounding avr would be a better option and since it might be so much better you won't have to do a 2 box solution with an amp and the 3800? Seems like price would be an issue at some point for you, as an initial purchase of a 3800 I'd assume you were trying to save money to start with, but now you're ok with losing a good portion of that initial cost by selling it? If I assume wrong and money is no issue why not just buy the best and not fool with anything below 3k? I've heard advice that adding an amp for movies will be one of the least noticiable additions to a system. Also, if you have expensive speakers I'd imagine you would already know what power requirements they need and you wouldn't have been satisfied with what the 3800 would do and you wouldn't of bought it. So that makes me assume your speakers are not super expensive or power hungrey and that mid tier speakers probably would be fine with the power output of a mid tier avr. So maybe a speaker upgrade instead of an amp would be an option to give you an upgrade. Then those better speakers could be used later ona high end avr, and then eventually an amp. Otherwise, just buy high end all the way around and not be incremental. btw how is it that you don't have space for an amp, that is confusing to me especially if you have a monkey nest of 5.2.4 speaker wire all over the room, it seems you could make a little amp work. good luck friend.
I like to put my subs on the inside of the front speakers because I like to put my fronts very wide for the bigger soundstage. If my room was wider, I would put them on the outside closer to the corners, but in my room they need to go on the inside so I have a proper front soundstage.
cant wait for part 3. Enjoying the videos as always
fantastic video, thank you so much. You are a great speaker and you make amazing videos
Thanks, I appreciate the positive feedback!
Thanks for another Masterpiece video .
Very kind of you - Glad you are here. -Jon
All i need to do is wite up 150watt 7.1 klipsch speakers , run either hdmi or optical for sound and hit room calibration
And enjoy
I have a recommendation for when you run the Audyssey calibration.
When you are doing the measurements, do your normal process but when it comes to the last two measurements (#7 and #8) instead of measuring in a seat or in front or behind one, place the microphone exactly where your ears would be in your Main Listening Position (Right ear then left ear. Microphone maybe 12" apart at maximum)
Give that a try and see if it improves the result a bit.
If you do this, let us know what you experience. I'm curious if you'll hear what I hear when I do that.
@FURognar do you know how these new Denon's perform in pre out mode? I am looking at a budget option in upgrading my current processor and moving towards Atmos in my theater. I am also considering the A6A but can't find any info on that model.
@@percybedford6266 not sure how it functions from a practical sense because I havent used a Denon that has a Pre-out mode yet (mine is from 2016. Looking to upgrade it soon probably the 6800) but I know spec-wise if you put the Denon in Pre-Amp mode, clipping rises from about 1.4 volts to over 2 volts. I believe some have measured as high as 4 volts before clipping (not sure how much distortion is introduced though)
I will be playing with that myself once I upgrade because I am thinking of going full preamp mode with it.
@@FURognar okay, I am currently running 7.1 in my theater with the old XMC 1. I am looking to upgrade because I want to expand to 11.1. Emotiva has a really nice sound, but their products tend to lack in other areas. They are supposed to be getting new processors but no word on when they will be available so I am looking at something more budget friendly.
@@percybedford6266 my recommendation is the Denon X3800H or X4800H. You can use external amps to push them to 11.4 channels.
The others are good too, but none can match the features of Denon and Marantz.
For pure sound quality though, check out Anthem, such as the Anthem MRX-740. It has 7 built in amps, but can use external amps up to 15.2 channels of processing. The problem is that it doesnt have the number of features of the Denon, but Anthem Room Correction really focuses on sound quality, though to be fair, the Denon can use either Dirac or MultEQ-X.
So cost to performance, go for the X3800, or for sound quality, look at Anthem.
Very interesting approach. I am curious about what to expect, but it is better that I go into it blind to see if I arrive at the same conclusion. Not sure when I will get to that test as I have Direct and the new Bass Control options to play with first. Also I with test with Joe ‘n Tell’s Magic Beans calibration. So lots to explore. Thanks for the tip. -Jon
très bien
je vous en prie. Content que tu aies apprécié la vidéo -Jon
Hey Jon, just wondering did you ever add wide's to your set up, if you did have you noticed a big difference? A lot of people seem to think they're a pretty good upgrade since humans are much more sensitive to sounds happening in front of them.
Yes, as a temporary configuration. I currently using a set of old bookshelf speakers from Monitor Audio and powering with AV Receivers under review - current Denon AVR-X6800H.
I just ordered another Emotiva XPA-DR2 to power so I can run the front wides from AV Processors as well, including my Emotiva RMC-1.
I think it adds a lot to the experience. It is noticeable. Looking forward to having a more proper setup. Next step is to use better speakers.
Jon
Jon, I was planning to wait for this review to make a move but I got antsy and received my AVR-X6800H yesterday and set it up. It is replacing an AVR-X6700H. My set up is identical to yours except I do not have front wide speakers. I have a 7.2.4 configuration with all Klipsch speakers. I am using a Monolith 11 channel amplifier to drive all my speakers.
Denon told me that I could use the backup from my AVR-X6700H to set up my 6800H but that does not work. The receiver would not let me use the stored configuration.
One thing I think they need to change is that they only offer 2 options for the placement of subwoofers. I have both of mine in the rear and that is not an option with this setup.
So far, I am delighted and have purchased Dirac Live with bass and full bandwidth. I will set that up on Friday.
Thanks again for your tremendous efforts.
So happy for you. I look forward to comparing notes or setup and experience.
Subwoofer placement - yes, I agree could be more options.
Jon
If you have three rows of height speakers, you should be able to use them just fine. Just set the middle pair to "top middle". This also makes it possible to have that pair act as VOG in Auro. Works with the X6700H as well.
But with Most movies only the middles or Front and Back are used .There are Some Mixes Like Gravity and Mad Max,that have Sort of dynamic atmos..I have a Cinema 50 and would Like to make a top middle pair to my front heights and rear Heights.I could also make a second configuration with 5.2.6 and 5.2.4.
@@texxhexxmm the standard Atmos studio config is 7.1.4, so that's what most content is made for. If you have 6 heights, your AVR will make use of that extra pair when objects are used and when you use DSU. There are plenty of Atmos mixes that use objects.
@@isak6626 What is DSU?
@@texxhexxmm Dolby Surround Upmixer. In other words, when upmixing, you will make use of all speakers.
@@isak6626 yeah ,but it could sound not right ..in general i am a native Guy ;)
What if using apps on tv,not using arc/earc,can't get atmos dts x etc??
I use external streaming devices in preference to those built into the TV. They also seem to work better for me. Each streaming app in a TV is different. Check the settings to see if there is a way to enable ARC and multi-channel output. -Jon
Can this avr be used with a 2 rows of seating? If so, is there a diagram of how would the speakers should be setup.
Yes. There are a few approaches. Option 1 is to go with the traditional side surround channels. For Option 1, I would place the side surrounds a little behind the first row, but in front of row 2. That would give row 1 a little better experience. For Option 2, you could introduce a second pair of side surrounds. However, those would have to be wired to the same pre-out using at least 2-channels of external amplification. The speaker configuration in the unit does not let you design two sets of side surrounds as with a premium Trinnov or Storm Audio processor. When calibrating the two left (and then two right) side surround would be at the same volume and calibration. I don't recall the Denon manual covering your use case. They do cover 2 or 3 rows of height channels; so for height speaker positioning, you should have their guidance. -Jon
You have a copy/paste script error around second 15: it's not a replacement for Denon X3700 :)
Yes - embarrassing and right at the beginning. Thanks for pointing out. Glad you weren’t fooled by that error. -Jon
Can you connect all your speakers first and then run set-up? It will be difficult for me to run set-up and getting to back panel connecting each speaker one at a time. Thanks for the great review.
Certainly. That is how I do it. The wizard to the end is not practical. The one at a time approach assumes the back of the receiver is accessible. If you have an equipment rack that is reachable from behind - that is ideal and can align with the wizard. -Jon
You almost answered my question in the video but I can't find this information in the manual or the forums. I want to use the front wides and 6 heights (atmos). I'd give up the rear surrounds. I have a separate 7-channel amp I will use. So the question is, is it a processing limitation or an amp limitation that when you choose 6 heights, it turns off the front wides? I am hoping I won't need to save to save up for the A1H because the 8500 had this same limitation.
It is my understanding that the Denon AVR-X6800H supports 17 channels of processing for up to 7.4.6 or 9.4.4 speaker layouts. While front wides and 6 height (3 rows) are supported, you cannot configure both within the same speaker preset. For example, you may have present 1 configured for 7.2.6 and present 2 configured for 9.4.4 and you will be able to swap between the two presents. However, you will not be about to configure a preset for a 9.4.6 speaker layout. That would require a receiver that supports 19 channels, like the AVR-A1H or the Marantz AV10 processor. -Jon
@@ripewave Thanks for the information. It appears that the same restriction exists with the Cinema 30 . I've heard some folks mention that rear surrounds are less important with 6 atmos, but with up-mixing the front-wides are nice. Do you think it makes sense to choose between rear surrounds and 6 atmos instead of front-wides?
Excellent presentation. I'm curious.... since you set the subs to directional front/rear do the rear subs play when you listen to a stereo source in stereo mode? If not is there an option to have it use the rear sub in stereo mode?
What I will do it put the receiver in stereo mode and see what happens with the rear subwoofer. -Jon
On my x6700H... I've recently been having some strange HDMI / No Sound / Power Off ? flashing red light ... issue.
I like the newer WebUI features on the 6800 .. I wonder if I can find some reason of settings for why my sound some times gets all messed up with playing from the xbox.
.. The black screen flicker and all the handshakes in the HDMI chain is SOO annoying. I can't wait until we get something universal.
Sorry to hear about the odd behaviors you are experiencing.
Xbox HDMI issues - yes HDMI is very tricky and after years since v2.1 release there is still inconsistent implementations. I would start by testing your HDMI cables using the Denon cable check utility. After that every component is the chain needs to play nice with compatible settings. -Jon
another excellent video, what is the better reciever bewteen this and integra 8.4, if running 7.2.2, for both music and cinema?, cheers mate
I will know better after doing my sound comparison analysis. -Jon
@@ripewave cheers mate
I have 5.1.2 with rears being in ceiling can I switch it up for auro 3d
Yes - for one row of ceiling speakers Denon let’s you configure as Top Front (ceiling). The issue is when you multiple rows and a Top Center and/or Front Centrr Height speaker and Denon forces you to configure the front and rear channel as wall mounted “Heights” -Jon
Can you confirm that there is the DTS X PRO?
Yes. But I find the lack of marketing or mention in the manual or even the user interface very odd. My ability to confirm only comes from the FAQ section of the product webpage where Denon answers directly:
A: Hello,
Yes - the AVR-X6800H does support DTS-X Pro.
Denon Response
3 months ago
Jon
I have a 4800h are these close?? Also how do these compare to the new Sony es line
I believe they are close sonically l, but I haven’t run my sound analysis yet. Feature set is the same, with the exception of the extra channels of processing, amplifiers count and more power per channel. -Jon
@@ripewave thanks for answering these are expensive and I’m new so don’t want fomo on Sony es vs 4800h
You meant to say it is slated to take the place of the AVR-X6700H
I did - and my goodness, I would have to mess it up right at the beginning. Thanks for going easy on me. -Jon
Question....is this worth an upgrade from a 3800 to have a 1 box solution, or should I just add a 3 or 5 channel amp for LCR or Base speakers to the 3800 for increased dynamic performance? Either way it would cost the same. (Really don't have the space for the added component) Running a 5.2.4. setup.
As I understand your options for your 5.2.4 setup are:
Option 1 - Upgrade 3800 to 6800
Option 2 - Keep 3800, but add 3-5 channel external amplifier
The extra channels in the 6800 are not needed if you plan to stay with the 5.2.4 speaker layout. There is a noticeable sound performance increase when moving from the 3800 to the 4800 (I tested last year). I am testing the 6800 against my Cinema 50 (which is very close to the 3800 in regards to sound quality). Once I have that result, I can better advice you on whether the 6800 provides enough sound improvement over the 4800 to justify the additional cost. The 4800 has enough channels and will improve you results. The external amps will also help. Those amps are more noticeable if your speakers are not efficient and require a lot of power.
Jon
@@ripewave 4 ohm rated monolith thx365t as base speakers, thx365c for center i figure a upgrade to amp power in the 1 box solution or just add an external amp even though i have no space so that’s why i considered the 1 box solution. WAF really wants everything in the same cabinet….
With an sensitivity of 89db, the those speakers have an efficiency a little lower then the medium, so they could benefit from some more power. The power options are
X3800 = 105W ($1,700)
X4800 = 125W ($2,500)
X6800 = 140W ($3,500)
I find that is you want more power, increasing 5-30W isn’t going to be that noticeable. Given that your focus on the x6800 may be better then the x4800 for you. You just need to be okay with spending $1,000 more to increase 15W. The external amp is the more economical approach, but if you don’t have the room, that is not an option.
Jon
Do you feel the 3800 is a bit lacking and you are wondering if an amp would help? Conversely, are you wondering if upgrading to just a plain better sounding avr would be a better option and since it might be so much better you won't have to do a 2 box solution with an amp and the 3800?
Seems like price would be an issue at some point for you, as an initial purchase of a 3800 I'd assume you were trying to save money to start with, but now you're ok with losing a good portion of that initial cost by selling it? If I assume wrong and money is no issue why not just buy the best and not fool with anything below 3k?
I've heard advice that adding an amp for movies will be one of the least noticiable additions to a system. Also, if you have expensive speakers I'd imagine you would already know what power requirements they need and you wouldn't have been satisfied with what the 3800 would do and you wouldn't of bought it. So that makes me assume your speakers are not super expensive or power hungrey and that mid tier speakers probably would be fine with the power output of a mid tier avr. So maybe a speaker upgrade instead of an amp would be an option to give you an upgrade. Then those better speakers could be used later ona high end avr, and then eventually an amp. Otherwise, just buy high end all the way around and not be incremental.
btw how is it that you don't have space for an amp, that is confusing to me especially if you have a monkey nest of 5.2.4 speaker wire all over the room, it seems you could make a little amp work. good luck friend.
I like to put my subs on the inside of the front speakers because I like to put my fronts very wide for the bigger soundstage.
If my room was wider, I would put them on the outside closer to the corners, but in my room they need to go on the inside so I have a proper front soundstage.
That is a fair reason. I will include going forward as a valid use case. Thanks for raising. -Jon
Nice, but rather disheartening to see you're still measuring in feet and inches in 2024! :)