I love this series. As a outdoor loving family we found a restaurant/bar ice machine at an auction for $500 and set that up in our garage. We always have 650lbs of ice on hand. Have started selling ice by the bag in my community. Great little side hustle.
I'm not gonna lie, I have no plans to do this.... But there is just something fascinating about a DIY ice maker and going through all the tests to get the best results. I look forward to the videos every time they come out!
You are doing something impressive here. Ignore the complaints!!! I’d say that the view count tells you what viewers want. It’s all for science!!! Thanks for the video and keep up the good work!!!
Honestly, I don't use much ice or have a need for an ice maker, but I'm so invested in this, I can't help but watch! Its so informative and interesting to watch!
I just love these freezer videos... I think every person would love to have an ice maker and this seems like a great solution... & it's quite fun to see how you're creating the perfect system for the common man:)
If you had asked me previously how much time I’d spend watching videos about ice production, I’d have guessed significantly less than what I do, but love the videos! Concerning air flow, I wonder if building a bin inside the freezer with a small gap between the bin and the wall of the freezer would help. Could also have holes throughout the material of the bin to further help with airflow, maybe like hardware cloth or something similar. Also could have fans pulling or pushing air through the gap.
Try to loop the inlet water line on top of lid... then cover the loop with a blanket. This will cool the inlet water but not freeze it. The insulated blanket will also lower your energy loss. Double win. Love the video.
A full freezer stays frozen way longer than a half full one, after years of battling hurricanes and their after math we always keep several 2 liter bottles and a couple of gallon jugs in our big upright and chest freezer, that thermal mass makes a huge difference in operating cost and unit run time. I really enjoy all these controlled experiment tests thanks for the effort and for sharing. Cheers from Jacksonville Florida 🌞
We have two freezers in our garage now in Saint Petersburg Florida. The garage temperature is probably well over 100F degrees in there!! We have never had a compressor failure in in two in half years!! We have a food freezer and a fishing freezer!! Getting ready to add another freezer for the fishing bait. I am going to clean out the 7 cubic foot freezer we have now to a ice maker like you have now! Going to buy another 5 cubic foot freezer for our cut bait and chum freezer!! To lower our garage temperature. I want to get a bigger water heater from our 30 gallon one. I want to get a 50 gallon heat pump water heater that will help cool our garage while heating our water!! Love the channel!! Thank you!!!
I agree, You could put a PVC pipe from the bottom, to the fans,( perforated on the bottom half to pull cold air from the bottom) then connect it with a thin plastic "manifold" to keep the room inside for getting ice. Looking forward to seeing what you end up installing
I’m probably the only chick following you ice maker journey! 😂 I do enjoy learning about outside of the box subjects. I think the air flow needs a path to circulate. Use the new fancy fan to blow at the level of the bottom of the maker where the tray is located & somehow loose the corners in the box to lower the resistance of the air flow. That way the 1 fancy fan will circulate the air in a continuous loop around the interior of the unit. I’m looking forward to the results of your experiments.
Sharon Baker-Kirby, u and I make 2 chicks watching! If there is a way to check for temp variances n the ice box, such as toward the back wall, I wonder if the new fan should b directed to that area. I also wonder if a water filter would speed up the freezing time by eliminating impurities. Completely enjoying this series of experiments Andrew! Who knew ice making could b so fascinating?
Thank you both for watching, I am toying with an idea for recirculating the coldest air and directing it to the ice makers. I also have another thermometer on the way to read temperature near the ice makers.
Wow ! you got me all excited about the 2.0 new ice maker after we have gone through all the tests. Got my freezer and will buy supplies as you state what is going in yours. I have one of those counter space ice makers, the ice does not last at all. I put it in my adult drink and it is melted before I finish my drink. I knew the frost helps , I put a thermometer in my fridge in the garage (freezer) and got better temps out of it when I left the frost on.
Great series of videos. Here is another simple thing to try(forgive me if someone has already suggested it). Buy a small fan and aim it at your compressor. It made my freezer way more efficient.
Love this stuff. My guess is thermal mass is NOT the problem to ice production, it's just blocking air contact with some of the cooling surfaces. Try supporting the thermal mass away from the bottom and the sides of the freezer - (like using plastic trash cans supported by blocks. My guess is the thermal mass in this configuration will be similar to the empty freezer test where the air flow touches more cooling surface. The fastest removal of heat introduced into the system by the ice makers, water and fans will produce the most ice.
I love this series, and am looking forward to the next build. I’m planning to build one myself, but have to get the boat first! I love the data crunching, only question from me is whether you’ve considered using an app or web supported weather station for monitoring cabinet temperature and humidity? It would maybe help on determining the impact of ambient shop temperature
Hey Andrew, I do run my kegerator fan on the bottom aiming up. It just about equalized the temp top to bottom. I get a 1 to 3 degree swing, between top and bottom temp, between cycles. I measure both, yes ocd. That new fan will make a measurable difference I'm certain. Cooler guys were nice to do that! Enjoying there series!
If it was me Seeing as you already have the mini fridge keeping your beverages cool while out in your shop I would move it next to your ice maker use the plastic lines you used for your ice chest chiller and just drill a hole through the side of your mini fridge to get the lines into and out of the fridge Leave them coiled up on the bottom of the fridge it would be free cooling for the ice makers as you are keeping beverages cool anyway and the waterlines wouldn’t take up that much space But that’s my two cents
Love this ice series please keep doing them. For the past week after I get off work I would just throw up one of your videos and eat dinner haha! Love them man!
I agree with you, once it's in an air conditioned room, it will perform awesomely! (if that's a word... ;)) I'm thinking that the ice production was better (when there was no ice in there) because there was more cold air flowing around the trays. With a lot of ice in there, the flow was hindered. What if you turned one of the fans around the other way to create a circular path for the cold air to circulate? That way, even with lots of ice in there, you will still have cold air flowing. Just a thought. (I hope the chicken sticks were good!)
I think the freezer using more electricity when it was completely defrosted makes perfect sense because the frost was also acting as thermal mass. Water/Ice has such a high specific heat capacity which means it takes a lot of energy to change its temperature in either direction. Without the frost, the freezer was fighting to keep the inner plastic lining cold which can warm up in seconds as compared to the frost, which resists warming.
i sure hope you keep going with this. I have seen some of the comments where people have made something like this already. I am going to make one of these as well.
You MOST DEFINITELY have to keep making these videos!!! My husband is too stupid to do this...so I am living vicariously through you!!! Thanks for ALL the time you have dedicated thus far!!!!!! Please Do solar! 200 vatos should do her...Also...the frost is actually acting as an insulator to the outside...its like an igloo......that is why its cheaper with it there...I would leave the frost until you can't even put your hand in the freezer lol...Also a 5 gallon bucket filled with ice and the tube coiled is the cheapest way to keep inlet water temperature consistant..no need to use a fridge.
Neat stuff. So the frost insulates the cold walls making the box temperature slightly warmer then when it’s thawed. This is also why you use more energy because you’re cooling more space. The compressor probably did shut off overnight but due to no load it wouldn’t stay off very long. A technicality is a compressor is most efficient running vs starting and stopping. Hands down your best gains will be lower ambient temperature and lower water temperature. I’m not familiar with that freezer but a lot of residential units use the outside case as the condenser and the inside case as the evaporator. Insulation around the outside of the unit could be counterproductive. Check if there’s a fan cooled or static cooled condenser coil in the bottom. The compressor can run 24/7 365 if it’s in proper conditions. However A 80-90 degree shop is to hot for them. Insulation in the door would likely help as they are typically the least insulated. A water filter would help your ice quality and would help clear it up if you wanted. It could increase production as there would be less impurities and solids in the water. Your fan idea of pulling air from the bottom should help but could also pull moisture through the ice making block ice. As for your temperature monitoring a k type thermocouple would be your best bet as it’s a remote probe and you can monitor it outside. If you want the best data collection you need to know your average water temperature though. Water temperature and condensing temperature has the biggest effects in commercial ice makers so it’ll be the same for your diy project.
The front and two sides are always hot and dumping heat, the back and lid are cool and losing efficiency. Those are the two places I am going after with insulation.
I’m guessing someone has already suggested this, but what if you built an enclosure/sun shield over your pipe on the exterior of your shop? A couple of pieces of cedar fence pickets would probably do it. Leave it insulated, but take the sun off of the black foam. You’d eliminate that 99 degree initial slug of water.
Don't blame you for doing this series. Lots of views and comments. Make a little money with it. Not bad at all. Very interesting. I'm a refrigeration Tech, and I would just buy a commercial ice machine.
A buddy gave me some of that 1.25" thick foam rigid insulation with reflective foil on it. I put it on both doors of the fridge on my porch that faces the morning sun only. I tested "before & after" with a kill-a-watt. Just loosely attaching it to the doors with velcro got me a instant 10% reduction in power consumption (each test ran 7 days). Tests were ran during a warm & consistent, but not hottest season.
I like what you’re doing here. My girlfriend and I both enjoy beer on ice so we freeze a couple ice cube trays a day and keep a yeti cooler with a few beers in it.
If the compressor is working harder (staying on longer than normal), that's probably why the ice production is better even with less thermal mass. Air flow might be a factor too. Thanks for doing this too, much appreciated.
But keep in mind that temperature was never great even with the compressor running, temperature stayed lower and more stable with thermal mass. That should have technically helped ice production.
The commercial Machines I normally work on are on a 30 amp circuit and drop 1400 lbs. in 24 hours. The cost of just the ice machine is 8500.00 and that doesn't include the bin. I like what you are trying and residential use
You can make all of your ice fall into a square aluminum container and that will keep your coils exposed to the air for better heat transfer. And yes your production will increase because you'll have better heat transfer from the air to more freezer coil surface, but your compressor will always run and never shut off until the coils Frost over. If you direct the air and moisture from the ice makers over the ice cubes in the bin that will help dehumidify the air and keep the frost off the coils.
Run some large flexible tubing down in the bottom and back up again to the ice makers. Allow the ice to surround the tubing to bring more of that cold air back up to the ice makers. Have your fan set to push/pull that air directly to the ice makers.
Place a riser in the bottom of the chest and set a large tub on top. Fashion a shoot to funnel ice into the tub. Now you have the large thermal mass of the ice and the ability for the coldest air possible to circulate to the top.
here is a thought... you are using the same catch basins... weigh them and write on them with a sharpie or a sticker the weight. then when you weigh ice production ... just weigh the containers with ice and subtract the empty weight. quicker and less chance of losing cubes.
My theory on the frost build up is that you do lose a bit of energy transfer when you have a thick wall of ice and it acts as a insulator to the cooling coils. But not enough gains worth scraping unless you have more time than money.
An Idea for chilled water, why not sandwich some plastic line between the lid of the freezer and some sheet foam insulation. then you are using wasted cooling to chill the water, and it will be going back into the freezer, making it more efficient. I would do this before the solenoid valves so that the water can't drain into the icemakers. One of my old fridges used this method to prechill the water, but they got recalled because if you didn't use the water or icemaker it would freeze up. Thanks for the videos, I'm really thinking about doing this project.
what about coiling your incoming waterline inside the freezer? Measure out the length of hose that holds the water volume of both icemakers and have it inside the freezer. Probably wont be chilled water but it will be cooler than before. it might also help stabilize your ice output since it was chilled some whereas before your depending on the day
I have a suggestion,, no back ground in cooling at all. I've watched everyone of these more than once But air flow and colder temps was in my mind caused the biggest increase, that 3rd fan pipe air from the top to the bottom forcing air up through the cubes. Use a fish tank grid, the part that holds the sand. Or a controlled method forcing air around the bottom and up all around the cubes. The 2 top fans will end up moving colder air to the ice makers. See what that does. I'm waiting to see 2.0. Thanks
I would of put money on the results being less production I think you're right about air flow I can't think of anything else it might be. I think adding extra cooling to the condenser and compressor will make a lot of difference
Hi when you go to put one of the original fans on the compressor there are a number of options Blow in Suck out Place externally Place internally Create a funnel to push or pull the air It all depends on what the cavity in which the compressor is housed in allows so can you show it to us before or during you doing it so we can see it also. But regardless of all that I suggest placing two 2x4's on their side to lift the freezer up off the floor a bit to allow max air flow to vent heat away from the compressor and also the side panels with the heat exchanger coils surrounding the unit You may even decide to use both old fans one to push n one to pull for the compressor as well you can also fabricate ductwork using 1 gallon milk/water jug plastic and duct tape if needed And lastly there may be a filter in the vent on the unit to factor in somehow. Foam or fiber AC filters may be an upgrade. Re the new fan. Suggest placing it alone in the center between the 2 makers with the cowling attached to maybe a clothes dryer vent tube sucking air from the lower corner with a cone shaped fiber glass window screen cover to prevent blockage Ok That's all I got!!!
The evaporator is the side of the inner wall as you know I'm sure. The ice is a great insulator so in effect it is insulating half of the evaporator. That is why your production went up IMHO. If you could build a wall that so that the ice is not in direct contact with the wall and have fans to circulate the air between the cavities that may give you the best production while storing ice.
Put a plexi glass slider door on the inside of the machine, so when you get ice, you simply slide the prexi glass over far enough to get the scoop. Simular to the ice cream freezers at the jiffy stores .
Compressors have thermal protection. If they get too hot they will shut down until they cool. Don't worry about running 24/7. To maximize ice production you must have the compressor running constantly. If the compressor is really running all the time, then you'll gain from things like additional insulation and external fans which will help efficiency of the cooling unit and the compressor will start cycling again. But I don't think you know for sure that the compressor is always running. I suggest you get an old style clock (with hands) and wire it across the compressor. If it never loses time, then it's 100% on. Any time loss over 24 hours and you'll know for sure the percentage of time the compressor is running. If you're already at 100% then nothing you do inside will matter. In fact you might as well try running with just one ice maker instead of two since the compressor is the limiting factor. Of course once you add insulation and an outside fan and get the compressor to cycle, it will be time to improve the insides until the compressor once again is at 100%.
I'm also in Florida with a freezer in my garage. I found that a small 9 inch fan blowing directly on the compressor helps keep it cool in these hot summer months. I also cover mine in moving blankets to help with insulation.
I have a feeling you're about to design a smart phone app to help with all these measurements and monitoring.Remembering a hurricane that took our electricity for 70 hours last year. Our freezer was half full so i capped everything in it with three 12 lb. bags. When power came back on i was amazed that all though the ice was hardened, none appeared to have melted.Love my Sam's Club Deep Freezer. During this years Hurricane Ivan we lost power for six days. Thanks to a generator keeping power to the deep freezer, i was able to freeze nine half filled 8 oz. cups twice a day. made many lovely 4 oz. ice cubes(4.5 lbs a day) .
im a little late to replying but my idea is with it making more ice empty is because its cycling to its low temp set point more often so its average temperature is lower then when it cycles less often and slowly warms up. I love the series however to boost ice production lower the temperature and put extra insulation on the door.. the fans are blowing your cold air on the door which its not really designed for.. after all cold air is more dense then warm air.
From the point of view of the freezer the only thing you've changed is the thermal mass. You removed all the cubes and then removed all the frost(more thermal mass). The lower the thermal mass the higher the amount of power usage. Makes perfect sence to me. For the increase in production I think your 100% right about air flow. For the best result when freezer is full you need to be able to draw the colder air from the bottom. I think the easiest is a 4 inch pvc pipe with a 90 elbow at the top and that new fan. Put in the back left corner and point it at icemakers. with that new fan I think you could remove the other 2 fans to save on power but thats something to test. I personal think the next big increase will be the cooling of the the compressor both in power savings and if you can vent the heat away the from freezer another production boost.
3 thoughts... 1. I think thermal mass is a big plus but only if the mass is not insulating the coldest area of the compartment from the ice makers. I think that adding a bin that separates the thermal mass from the floor and lower walls will improve air flow and make for results. 2. I recall that you did a test where you removed one fan from the equation and had improved results? Then you added the second fan back into the system and relocated the fans closer to the Ice Makers... also with better results... As fans create heat... perhaps going back down to one may be of helpful... is it possible that a single "even smaller" fan could be helpful ? 3. The fan is cooling the ice makers for both the heat cycle and the freeze cycle, requiring more energy to release the ice. Could you incorporate a solid state relay that cuts power to the fan/fans as the heat cycle begins? 4. Any area on the outside of the box that is cold/sweaty could use more insulation... go for it. I also like the idea of pre-cooling the water line within the lid insulation. 5. Jeff Suckow is right...Ambient conditions vari....You could pre-chill the water line to improve the accuracy of your tests. Though I think this would not be best for the final product. I love this project !
Adding a mechanical agitation/stirring (vibration) during the cooling of the water in the first part of the freezing cycle will help to cool/freeze faster. I don't foresee a need to continue with the stirring once the water reaches zero Celsius, as the freezing point would decrease with the movement of the water. The other thing I would recommend is seeing if you can decrease the freezing cycle so that only the outside of the cube is frozen and middle is still liquid. Then it would finish freezing outside of the ice maker.
If you want to go crazy with pulling cold air from the bottom you could get something like a cooking cooling rack and lay it on the bottom, place a pvc pipe on top of the mesh running up to near the top the diameter of your fan shroud and attach your fan to it. Throw in an elbow to point it to the I've makers. It would allow air flow below the ice and you could pull some of the coldest air up and over to your ice makers.
I think the biggest advantage to thermal mass and having large jugs or whatever form of ice in there are going to be that if you ever lose power it’s going to keep it frozen better and you’ll be able to survive the power outage a lot longer.
I got one the table top machines and the cubes are round & hollow there great for drinks but dont last for cooler use unless you pre chill the cooler & everything going in it ! I get a gallon bag ice in about a hours time if im right there when the full light pops on & i'll run it maybe 3 times a week making a 1/2 gallon bag as that is what fits my 56 oz mug _ 2 16.9 oz Pepsi's !
To really maximize total production with cubes and not in a block production way then build a stand for it so your coolers can slide under it for storage, insulate the heck out of it on all sides, put a hole in the bottom front size or very bottom with a flapper door and ice auger. That way the lid never opens and you can easily fill coolers too. Lastly, remove the side compressor panel to maximize air flow to the condenser coil which the only way the freezer is able to reject the heat taken in through the refrigerant lines.
when you have the bottom empty, there isn't the barrier of the frost. That is the coldest part and the air is hitting it. When the freezer is half full, you also have the effect of some thermal mass. The only way to test that, is to place frozen food in the center so it has a thermal mass but with the sides free from frost.
Great effort and results. What I find interesting is that that freezer is running on less than 100 watts average. As for your questions about seeminly non-intuitive results, your attention to numerical detail is excellent, but is over interpreted. In short, I see no reason your results would be reproducible to 3 significant figures, meaning your variability comes from temperature control variables that you are controlling to about
You are trying to drain the Heat out of the freezer. The freezer coils are the drains. Frost over the freezer coils impedes the drainage just like leaves on a water drain impede drainage. That's why Eskimos build Igloo shelters when it is 60 below zero in the Arctic. Fans help move the heat towards the coils so that the heat can drain from the freezer. Until the heat makes it through the coil material and is absorbed by the refrigerant, you can't get rid of the Heat. It is trapped inside the freezer. When the freezer is half full of ice, the air can only reach half of the coil surface to drain the heat from the freezer. Yes thermal Mass inside the freezer acts as a capacitor and will help absorb the heat from the ice makers but it will slow down the removal of the heat from inside the freezer until the heat makes it through the ice cubes and frost to the freezer coils.
@@nofear1999 You can also try putting thin stainless steel sheets against all the walls. The metal will regulate the transfer of heat easier as the ice builts up. Plus you will only have a slightly smaller volume inside with the metal walls.
@@TKCL Yes for sure, but not when covered with frost... Aluminum has a heat conductivity of 160W/mK, ice 2.22W/mK frost/snow 0.2W/mK, and water at 0.6W/mK. So Aluminium is 80 times more efficient to conduct heat than ice, 320 times more efficient than frost/ice, and 266 times better the water. So you would actually improve efficiency (ten times or more) if you would have solid ice on the walls compared to a frost/snow/ice combination (but still way worse than clean walls). I will explain the 160W/mK number/description. 160W of energy is transferred thru 1 meter of aluminum with a 1m2 by 1meter of the material with 1 degree Kelvin temperature raise. Higher numbers mean more energy transfer and lower numbers equals better insulation. Silver 420W/mK, copper 370W/mK, air 0.025W/mK. I know it is al SI units but for relativity, it is all the same as US customary units. 1meter is about 3 feet and 1m2 is about 10 square feet and 1C or K is 1.8F. The interesting part with the last number of air (0.025W/mK) explains why you get so much better results with a few fans inside the box. Without any circulation is air an excellent insulator, but air will always circulate when there are temperature differences (without it would no cooling occur inside the freezer chest as an example but the fan improves it a lot). This also explains why glass woll is such a great insulation material, it basically only blocks air circulation (glass itself is 0.6W/mK, about the same as water).
I really like this series on your DIY ice machine. I think you proved that thermal mass doesn't have an effect on ice production it has an effect on freezer efficiency. Water is still going to freeze at 32° whether the freezer is at 10° or -2°. What I think you're missing is how long it takes to freeze the water and how much time your ice maker machines are taking to accomplish that task. In other words, time should be considered an important variable. How many ice cycles are you getting in an hour? What determines on your ice machines that the ice is ready to be dumped. Have you looked into that? Also, how does the ice machine know that its tray has ice and not almost frozen water? Is this a program-driven event or a sensor that is reading the water tray temperature? Once you know what device or thing is driving the ice dumping you should be able to increase your yield. I have a hunch that if the event is time-driven then smaller cubes won't change the yields unless the timer decreases as the water levels in the tray are lowered. But if you have a sensor reading the water temperature in the tray then your yields should improve with smaller cubes. Because you should get more ice cycles per hour versus the larger cubes. There could be a sweet spot in there between cube size and time to achieve ice cubes. Good luck on your efforts
It has a thermostat that reads the mold temperature and then triggers a short timed dump cycle. The quicker you can get the mold to temp the more dump cycles that are triggered.
You are most likely getting a faster harvest with a empty box. If you can add a relay to shut the fans off when you go into harvest you should get over 10 lbs. You might also try pointing 1 fan down, and pulling air across the trays with the other. The idea being to get a vertical loop going with the coldest air from the bottom of the box flowing across the trays.
I wonder if there is a way to put a scale under the freezer and just track how much it goes up each day so you don’t have to open it. This is an AWESOME project though. Love it!
You have tried a lot of stuff. Have you tried a small fan placed on your concrete floor pointed at the freezer. Concrete is cooler than the temp in the building and thus you can help your freezer stay about the temp of the concrete. You could try it for the 24-hour test.
The most efficient way to test thermal mass is with dry ice, 2.5lbs per sq foot over a 24 hour period, divide ice production vs dry ice weight loss, times the sq footage will equal your thermal mass efficiency range minimum... You can test this with block ice , no block ice, ice storage amounts (full/half full/etc), when your ice production number matches your thermal mass number then you'll have your most efficient ice production possible, fans or no fans.....
If you got some cheap bathroom scales under the corners of the freezer you would be able to monitor the production without opening the door. If you did that you could put a webcam up with a thermometer and barometer so you cold graph the change in production as the atmospherics change over a longer period of time. Hell with accurate enough scales you could even count out how many times the ice makes fill with water. As for the more production with no ice, The air temp is what freezes the ice so the more the air can flow across the walls the colder the air and intern the faster the water will freeze, so if you were to keep the ice in a basket leaving a 2-inch + gap all around the air temp would be lower increasing production.
Your air circulation theory may be on point. And I wouldn’t be shocked if you blow past your past results by combined optional air flow with thermal mass. Because I find it strange how with no thermal mass it produced .7lbs more ice only using .08kwh more power. So I’m interested in if you connect some small air ducts (strong enough to withstand the weight of a lot of ice) to the new fan and tunnel it in a U shape position pointing towards the ice makers. So as the freezer is filling up and covering the ducts with ice, making the tunnel cooler in turn circulating much colder air. I wouldn’t be surprised if you are finally able to reach 0 degrees in no time, using less energy. (But of course we will have to take into account the power needed to run an additional fan.) I’m excited to see your next video! My husband and I have been looking to get a nice size ice maker, but my frugal nature wouldn’t let me waste the money. So once you are able to crack the code of fully optimizing this diy ice maker, I will be taking this route and making one myself. Thanks!
oh no its an addiction now!! Looks like you are hitting all the right things here soon, keeping the heat away in the first place that is. Curious to see what will save you the most. (other than leaving the lid closed)
I suggested thermal mass, that does help when you open and use the chest. Either thermal mass or electricity running the compressor keep it at a specific temp.. unless you can make the temp lower neither will make the water colder faster(freezing faster).. but making the machine colder and having thermal mass will increase production( because when you open it more often, the temp doesn't drop).. other option is to figure out a way to agitate the water in the maker.. that would certainly make it freeze faster but that would be really hard to do..
You should get a govee Bluetooth thermometer off Amazon. It logs temps when you not connected. I use it with mine outdoor fridge and freezer and you can see when doors were open and when the compressor cycles.
Yolink makes so great ones that inuse and onlt $50. They run off aa and work forblike a year. Got one in my rv fridge an d one in my 7.0 cubic ice chest.
Try this put the fans lower in the bottom blowing up towards the ice makers with heat rising it might freeze the cubes faster ! lol your already on it right after i posted this you talked about it !
Great video series. What controls the timing when the ice makers ejecting the ice? Is it a timer or temperature sensor? I think it might be a mechanical timer or stepper motor. Let us know. If it's a timer/stepper motor controlling the ejection, you could find a creative way to speed it up and find the best point to eject the ice earlier.
There is a thermostat that reads the mold/tray temperature, it then triggers a short timed dump cycle. The quicker you can get the mold to temp the more dump cycles that are triggered
I've also watched a review video on the sonic style ice maker as well. Its like 500 bucks but if you love the soft ice its worth every penny lol. Im probably going to buy one for my dad. He enjoys that style of ice.
They are not cheap, but I do not know what the price will be for this new one. I'll let everyone know as soon as the company let's me know about its release.
my thought on the fans is to put them in the top left hooked up to pipes going down and across the bottom then back up so the air coming out is blowing on the bottom of the ice maker trays.
I know there's been a mention of cooling the intake water, and also moving air past the compressor to help it dissipate heat. Wonder if it's possible to rig both into one system to double the usage of the water cooling rig? Figure some sort of mini fridge with a tube coil inside for the water cooling, and maybe a second batch of tubing with a small water pump to move some cooled water through an almost reversed radiator so that you get cool air blowing across the compressor instead of the hotter garage air. Not sure where the power cost to performance makes the idea too extreme though.
I love this series. As a outdoor loving family we found a restaurant/bar ice machine at an auction for $500 and set that up in our garage. We always have 650lbs of ice on hand. Have started selling ice by the bag in my community. Great little side hustle.
Great find!
I'm not gonna lie, I have no plans to do this.... But there is just something fascinating about a DIY ice maker and going through all the tests to get the best results. I look forward to the videos every time they come out!
Thank you for watching
You are doing something impressive here. Ignore the complaints!!! I’d say that the view count tells you what viewers want. It’s all for science!!! Thanks for the video and keep up the good work!!!
Thank you
Not sure why, but I am addicted to this series. Keep up the awesome work!
Thank you for watching
I really enjoy these ice videos, bringing everyone together to form the best home brew ice machine!
Glad you are enjoying it, more to come!
Dude I love this project idk who’s tired of it but I’m sure not
Thank you for watching
Honestly, I don't use much ice or have a need for an ice maker, but I'm so invested in this, I can't help but watch! Its so informative and interesting to watch!
Glad you are enjoying it!
I just love these freezer videos... I think every person would love to have an ice maker and this seems like a great solution...
& it's quite fun to see how you're creating the perfect system for the common man:)
Glad you enjoyed it
If you had asked me previously how much time I’d spend watching videos about ice production, I’d have guessed significantly less than what I do, but love the videos! Concerning air flow, I wonder if building a bin inside the freezer with a small gap between the bin and the wall of the freezer would help. Could also have holes throughout the material of the bin to further help with airflow, maybe like hardware cloth or something similar. Also could have fans pulling or pushing air through the gap.
Try to loop the inlet water line on top of lid... then cover the loop with a blanket. This will cool the inlet water but not freeze it. The insulated blanket will also lower your energy loss. Double win. Love the video.
I'm Working on something similar
A full freezer stays frozen way longer than a half full one, after years of battling hurricanes and their after math we always keep several 2 liter bottles and a couple of gallon jugs in our big upright and chest freezer, that thermal mass makes a huge difference in operating cost and unit run time. I really enjoy all these controlled experiment tests thanks for the effort and for sharing. Cheers from Jacksonville Florida 🌞
Thank you for watching
We have two freezers in our garage now in Saint Petersburg Florida. The garage temperature is probably well over 100F degrees in there!! We have never had a compressor failure in in two in half years!! We have a food freezer and a fishing freezer!! Getting ready to add another freezer for the fishing bait. I am going to clean out the 7 cubic foot freezer we have now to a ice maker like you have now! Going to buy another 5 cubic foot freezer for our cut bait and chum freezer!! To lower our garage temperature. I want to get a bigger water heater from our 30 gallon one. I want to get a 50 gallon heat pump water heater that will help cool our garage while heating our water!! Love the channel!! Thank you!!!
Thank you for watching
Someone going super in depth on a project that interests them is the best. Keep going until every last variable has been tested.
Thank you for watching
Love your nerdy persistence on this. Keep it going, very interesting.
Thank you for watching
I agree, You could put a PVC pipe from the bottom, to the fans,( perforated on the bottom half to pull cold air from the bottom) then connect it with a thin plastic "manifold" to keep the room inside for getting ice. Looking forward to seeing what you end up installing
Playing with ideas now
I’m probably the only chick following you ice maker journey! 😂 I do enjoy learning about outside of the box subjects. I think the air flow needs a path to circulate. Use the new fancy fan to blow at the level of the bottom of the maker where the tray is located & somehow loose the corners in the box to lower the resistance of the air flow. That way the 1 fancy fan will circulate the air in a continuous loop around the interior of the unit. I’m looking forward to the results of your experiments.
Sharon Baker-Kirby, u and I make 2 chicks watching! If there is a way to check for temp variances n the ice box, such as toward the back wall, I wonder if the new fan should b directed to that area. I also wonder if a water filter would speed up the freezing time by eliminating impurities. Completely enjoying this series of experiments Andrew! Who knew ice making could b so fascinating?
Thank you both for watching, I am toying with an idea for recirculating the coldest air and directing it to the ice makers. I also have another thermometer on the way to read temperature near the ice makers.
I don't even need any extra ice, but I have an uncontrollable desire to build one myself. I'm geeking out over this.
I'm enjoying it myself!
This is informative and interesting to watch. Thanks for taking the time to do this. I’m waiting for more results before starting a build.
Thank you for watching
I love watching you chase the rabbit down the hole on this one. So much more fun (and money) then just buying an ice maker right off the bat.
I'm never tired of this one, this is how I found Kelly
Thank you for watching
That ice machine is working amazing.
Hay man I love that fact that you have been testing you have been doing it is very informative and well done.
Thank you for watching
Wow ! you got me all excited about the 2.0 new ice maker after we have gone through all the tests. Got my freezer and will buy supplies as you state what is going in yours. I have one of those counter space ice makers, the ice does not last at all. I put it in my adult drink and it is melted before I finish my drink. I knew the frost helps , I put a thermometer in my fridge in the garage (freezer) and got better temps out of it when I left the frost on.
More tests and builds coming, thanks for watching!
NO WAY! I just finished watching the last Icemaker episode and refreshed the main page and here's a brand new one!! Heck yeah!!
Ditto
Perfect timing!
Hi Andrew, we love all of your content. Just keep on posting. ❤❤❤❤❤
Thank you for watching
Great series of videos. Here is another simple thing to try(forgive me if someone has already suggested it). Buy a small fan and aim it at your compressor. It made my freezer way more efficient.
That's on my list for this upcoming week, thanks
I have really enjoyed your ice maker project
Thank you for watching, trying to locate another freezer to start my second build
Love this stuff.
My guess is thermal mass is NOT the problem to ice production, it's just blocking air contact with some of the cooling surfaces. Try supporting the thermal mass away from the bottom and the sides of the freezer - (like using plastic trash cans supported by blocks. My guess is the thermal mass in this configuration will be similar to the empty freezer test where the air flow touches more cooling surface. The fastest removal of heat introduced into the system by the ice makers, water and fans will produce the most ice.
I love this man and his ice machine so much
Awwwww ☺️
The reason you need to make the chiller is for consistency such as to give more validity to the rest of your tests.
I love this series, and am looking forward to the next build. I’m planning to build one myself, but have to get the boat first! I love the data crunching, only question from me is whether you’ve considered using an app or web supported weather station for monitoring cabinet temperature and humidity? It would maybe help on determining the impact of ambient shop temperature
I have not got that technical, but do have a new thermometer that does track 24/7 temperature and humidity
Hey Andrew, I do run my kegerator fan on the bottom aiming up. It just about equalized the temp top to bottom. I get a 1 to 3 degree swing, between top and bottom temp, between cycles. I measure both, yes ocd. That new fan will make a measurable difference I'm certain. Cooler guys were nice to do that! Enjoying there series!
Awesome, I'm definitely going to be playing with fan locations some more. Thanks for the information
If it was me
Seeing as you already have the mini fridge keeping your beverages cool while out in your shop
I would move it next to your ice maker use the plastic lines you used for your ice chest chiller and just drill a hole through the side of your mini fridge to get the lines into and out of the fridge
Leave them coiled up on the bottom of the fridge it would be free cooling for the ice makers as you are keeping beverages cool anyway and the waterlines wouldn’t take up that much space
But that’s my two cents
Keep up the good work. I dont know why but i am really enjoying this series!
Thank you for watching
Love this ice series please keep doing them. For the past week after I get off work I would just throw up one of your videos and eat dinner haha! Love them man!
Thank you for watching! Editing another ice video now
I agree with you, once it's in an air conditioned room, it will perform awesomely! (if that's a word... ;)) I'm thinking that the ice production was better (when there was no ice in there) because there was more cold air flowing around the trays. With a lot of ice in there, the flow was hindered. What if you turned one of the fans around the other way to create a circular path for the cold air to circulate? That way, even with lots of ice in there, you will still have cold air flowing. Just a thought. (I hope the chicken sticks were good!)
I need to test that
I think the freezer using more electricity when it was completely defrosted makes perfect sense because the frost was also acting as thermal mass. Water/Ice has such a high specific heat capacity which means it takes a lot of energy to change its temperature in either direction. Without the frost, the freezer was fighting to keep the inner plastic lining cold which can warm up in seconds as compared to the frost, which resists warming.
Good thoughts
i sure hope you keep going with this. I have seen some of the comments where people have made something like this already. I am going to make one of these as well.
Running tests right now! Ice video out later today
@@TKCL Sweet.
You MOST DEFINITELY have to keep making these videos!!! My husband is too stupid to do this...so I am living vicariously through you!!! Thanks for ALL the time you have dedicated thus far!!!!!! Please Do solar! 200 vatos should do her...Also...the frost is actually acting as an insulator to the outside...its like an igloo......that is why its cheaper with it there...I would leave the frost until you can't even put your hand in the freezer lol...Also a 5 gallon bucket filled with ice and the tube coiled is the cheapest way to keep inlet water temperature consistant..no need to use a fridge.
Lol thank you for watching
Neat stuff. So the frost insulates the cold walls making the box temperature slightly warmer then when it’s thawed. This is also why you use more energy because you’re cooling more space. The compressor probably did shut off overnight but due to no load it wouldn’t stay off very long. A technicality is a compressor is most efficient running vs starting and stopping. Hands down your best gains will be lower ambient temperature and lower water temperature. I’m not familiar with that freezer but a lot of residential units use the outside case as the condenser and the inside case as the evaporator. Insulation around the outside of the unit could be counterproductive. Check if there’s a fan cooled or static cooled condenser coil in the bottom. The compressor can run 24/7 365 if it’s in proper conditions. However A 80-90 degree shop is to hot for them. Insulation in the door would likely help as they are typically the least insulated. A water filter would help your ice quality and would help clear it up if you wanted. It could increase production as there would be less impurities and solids in the water. Your fan idea of pulling air from the bottom should help but could also pull moisture through the ice making block ice. As for your temperature monitoring a k type thermocouple would be your best bet as it’s a remote probe and you can monitor it outside. If you want the best data collection you need to know your average water temperature though. Water temperature and condensing temperature has the biggest effects in commercial ice makers so it’ll be the same for your diy project.
The front and two sides are always hot and dumping heat, the back and lid are cool and losing efficiency. Those are the two places I am going after with insulation.
I’m guessing someone has already suggested this, but what if you built an enclosure/sun shield over your pipe on the exterior of your shop? A couple of pieces of cedar fence pickets would probably do it. Leave it insulated, but take the sun off of the black foam. You’d eliminate that 99 degree initial slug of water.
Don't blame you for doing this series. Lots of views and comments. Make a little money with it. Not bad at all. Very interesting. I'm a refrigeration Tech, and I would just buy a commercial ice machine.
This is what TH-cam is for in my opinion. A lot of interesting and intelligent conversations have come out of these tests.
@@TKCL for sure 👍👍
A buddy gave me some of that 1.25" thick foam rigid insulation with reflective foil on it. I put it on both doors of the fridge on my porch that faces the morning sun only. I tested "before & after" with a kill-a-watt. Just loosely attaching it to the doors with velcro got me a instant 10% reduction in power consumption (each test ran 7 days). Tests were ran during a warm & consistent, but not hottest season.
I bought some myself, eager to try it.
Love this Series of videos I will most likely build one of these on your Final rendition
Thank you for watching
Man that was a good video man. That was good testing you did too. It's definitely making a lot of ice for you I can see that. Take it easy man.
Thank you Mack!
I like what you’re doing here. My girlfriend and I both enjoy beer on ice so we freeze a couple ice cube trays a day and keep a yeti cooler with a few beers in it.
Amen! I prefer beer so cold it's has ice slivers in it..... Yummmmm
If the compressor is working harder (staying on longer than normal), that's probably why the ice production is better even with less thermal mass. Air flow might be a factor too. Thanks for doing this too, much appreciated.
That was my thought as well
But keep in mind that temperature was never great even with the compressor running, temperature stayed lower and more stable with thermal mass. That should have technically helped ice production.
Still watchin, still having fun. Go man go! Defrost and 2-3 days....
Thank you for watching
The commercial Machines I normally work on are on a 30 amp circuit and drop 1400 lbs. in 24 hours.
The cost of just the ice machine is 8500.00 and that doesn't include the bin. I like what you are trying and residential use
No thank you! Lol ouch that's expensive
You can make all of your ice fall into a square aluminum container and that will keep your coils exposed to the air for better heat transfer. And yes your production will increase because you'll have better heat transfer from the air to more freezer coil surface, but your compressor will always run and never shut off until the coils Frost over. If you direct the air and moisture from the ice makers over the ice cubes in the bin that will help dehumidify the air and keep the frost off the coils.
Run some large flexible tubing down in the bottom and back up again to the ice makers. Allow the ice to surround the tubing to bring more of that cold air back up to the ice makers. Have your fan set to push/pull that air directly to the ice makers.
Exactly what I plan to do
Place a riser in the bottom of the chest and set a large tub on top. Fashion a shoot to funnel ice into the tub. Now you have the large thermal mass of the ice and the ability for the coldest air possible to circulate to the top.
here is a thought... you are using the same catch basins... weigh them and write on them with a sharpie or a sticker the weight. then when you weigh ice production ... just weigh the containers with ice and subtract the empty weight. quicker and less chance of losing cubes.
I did that and people went crazy! 🤷
My theory on the frost build up is that you do lose a bit of energy transfer when you have a thick wall of ice and it acts as a insulator to the cooling coils. But not enough gains worth scraping unless you have more time than money.
An Idea for chilled water, why not sandwich some plastic line between the lid of the freezer and some sheet foam insulation. then you are using wasted cooling to chill the water, and it will be going back into the freezer, making it more efficient. I would do this before the solenoid valves so that the water can't drain into the icemakers. One of my old fridges used this method to prechill the water, but they got recalled because if you didn't use the water or icemaker it would freeze up.
Thanks for the videos, I'm really thinking about doing this project.
I'm actually doing almost what you described, but in a different location.
what about coiling your incoming waterline inside the freezer? Measure out the length of hose that holds the water volume of both icemakers and have it inside the freezer. Probably wont be chilled water but it will be cooler than before. it might also help stabilize your ice output since it was chilled some whereas before your depending on the day
What would prevent it from freezing solid inside 🤔
@@jp34604 those ice makers cycle every 15 minutes if I remember correctly. The metal in the ice maker cools the water quicker then in a water line.
It takes longer than 15 minutes to cycle, I've had a small length of tubing inside before and it does freeze up.
I have a suggestion,, no back ground in cooling at all. I've watched everyone of these more than once But air flow and colder temps was in my mind caused the biggest increase, that 3rd fan pipe air from the top to the bottom forcing air up through the cubes. Use a fish tank grid, the part that holds the sand. Or a controlled method forcing air around the bottom and up all around the cubes. The 2 top fans will end up moving colder air to the ice makers. See what that does. I'm waiting to see 2.0. Thanks
I'm working on pulling cold air from the bottom right now. I'll have results out by the end of next week. Thanks for watching
Stealing a piece of ice from one bin doesn't do any good on your numbers if you don't steal it back when weighing the second bin. 😉
I absolutely DID put it back. I forgot once a few videos back and have been remembering ever since.
@@TKCL yeah I caught that in that video and have been watching for it ever since! 🤣
Perhaps he did replace it?
@@Johnnyd943
Perhaps, but if he did, he used slight of hand. 😉
I would of put money on the results being less production I think you're right about air flow I can't think of anything else it might be. I think adding extra cooling to the condenser and compressor will make a lot of difference
Testing soon, thanks for watching.
Hi when you go to put one of the original fans on the compressor there are a number of options
Blow in
Suck out
Place externally
Place internally
Create a funnel to push or pull the air
It all depends on what the cavity in which the compressor is housed in allows so can you show it to us before or during you doing it so we can see it also. But regardless of all that I suggest placing two 2x4's on their side to lift the freezer up off the floor a bit to allow max air flow to vent heat away from the compressor and also the side panels with the heat exchanger coils surrounding the unit
You may even decide to use both old fans one to push n one to pull for the compressor as well you can also fabricate ductwork using 1 gallon milk/water jug plastic and duct tape if needed
And lastly there may be a filter in the vent on the unit to factor in somehow. Foam or fiber AC filters may be an upgrade. Re the new fan. Suggest placing it alone in the center between the 2 makers with the cowling attached to maybe a clothes dryer vent tube sucking air from the lower corner with a cone shaped fiber glass window screen cover to prevent blockage
Ok That's all I got!!!
You hit the nail on the head with some of your suggestions, exactly what I plan to do.
The evaporator is the side of the inner wall as you know I'm sure. The ice is a great insulator so in effect it is insulating half of the evaporator. That is why your production went up IMHO. If you could build a wall that so that the ice is not in direct contact with the wall and have fans to circulate the air between the cavities that may give you the best production while storing ice.
Thank you for the information
Put a plexi glass slider door on the inside of the machine, so when you get ice, you simply slide the prexi glass over far enough to get the scoop. Simular to the ice cream freezers at the jiffy stores .
I consider it a nice benefit: when the freezer has no ice, it makes ice faster and uses more power than when there is a lot of ice.
Compressors have thermal protection. If they get too hot they will shut down until they cool. Don't worry about running 24/7. To maximize ice production you must have the compressor running constantly. If the compressor is really running all the time, then you'll gain from things like additional insulation and external fans which will help efficiency of the cooling unit and the compressor will start cycling again.
But I don't think you know for sure that the compressor is always running. I suggest you get an old style clock (with hands) and wire it across the compressor. If it never loses time, then it's 100% on. Any time loss over 24 hours and you'll know for sure the percentage of time the compressor is running.
If you're already at 100% then nothing you do inside will matter. In fact you might as well try running with just one ice maker instead of two since the compressor is the limiting factor.
Of course once you add insulation and an outside fan and get the compressor to cycle, it will be time to improve the insides until the compressor once again is at 100%.
I'm also in Florida with a freezer in my garage. I found that a small 9 inch fan blowing directly on the compressor helps keep it cool in these hot summer months. I also cover mine in moving blankets to help with insulation.
You'll like my upcoming video, I'm doing exactly that.
I have a feeling you're about to design a smart phone app to help with all these measurements and monitoring.Remembering a hurricane that took our electricity for 70 hours last year. Our freezer was half full so i capped everything in it with three 12 lb. bags. When power came back on i was amazed that all though the ice was hardened, none appeared to have melted.Love my Sam's Club Deep Freezer. During this years Hurricane Ivan we lost power for six days. Thanks to a generator keeping power to the deep freezer, i was able to freeze nine half filled 8 oz. cups twice a day. made many lovely 4 oz. ice cubes(4.5 lbs a day)
.
I know all to well about those power outages. Generators are worth every penny.
im a little late to replying but my idea is with it making more ice empty is because its cycling to its low temp set point more often so its average temperature is lower then when it cycles less often and slowly warms up.
I love the series however to boost ice production lower the temperature and put extra insulation on the door.. the fans are blowing your cold air on the door which its not really designed for.. after all cold air is more dense then warm air.
From the point of view of the freezer the only thing you've changed is the thermal mass. You removed all the cubes and then removed all the frost(more thermal mass). The lower the thermal mass the higher the amount of power usage. Makes perfect sence to me.
For the increase in production I think your 100% right about air flow. For the best result when freezer is full you need to be able to draw the colder air from the bottom. I think the easiest is a 4 inch pvc pipe with a 90 elbow at the top and that new fan. Put in the back left corner and point it at icemakers. with that new fan I think you could remove the other 2 fans to save on power but thats something to test.
I personal think the next big increase will be the cooling of the the compressor both in power savings and if you can vent the heat away the from freezer another production boost.
Testing both soon
Hi, Andrew! You are a hard working man! I am ready to go fishing.
I really need to go!
@@TKCL right there with y’all.
3 thoughts...
1. I think thermal mass is a big plus but only if the mass is not insulating the coldest area of the compartment from the ice makers. I think that adding a bin that separates the thermal mass from the floor and lower walls will improve air flow and make for results.
2. I recall that you did a test where you removed one fan from the equation and had improved results? Then you added the second fan back into the system and relocated the fans closer to the Ice Makers... also with better results...
As fans create heat... perhaps going back down to one may be of helpful... is it possible that a single "even smaller" fan could be helpful ?
3. The fan is cooling the ice makers for both the heat cycle and the freeze cycle, requiring more energy to release the ice. Could you incorporate a solid state relay that cuts power to the fan/fans as the heat cycle begins?
4. Any area on the outside of the box that is cold/sweaty could use more insulation... go for it. I also like the idea of pre-cooling the water line within the lid insulation.
5. Jeff Suckow is right...Ambient conditions vari....You could pre-chill the water line to improve the accuracy of your tests. Though I think this would not be best for the final product.
I love this project !
Thank you for watching! Actually I had almost identical results with one fan VS two up close.
Adding a mechanical agitation/stirring (vibration) during the cooling of the water in the first part of the freezing cycle will help to cool/freeze faster. I don't foresee a need to continue with the stirring once the water reaches zero Celsius, as the freezing point would decrease with the movement of the water.
The other thing I would recommend is seeing if you can decrease the freezing cycle so that only the outside of the cube is frozen and middle is still liquid. Then it would finish freezing outside of the ice maker.
That's food for thought 🤔
If you want to go crazy with pulling cold air from the bottom you could get something like a cooking cooling rack and lay it on the bottom, place a pvc pipe on top of the mesh running up to near the top the diameter of your fan shroud and attach your fan to it. Throw in an elbow to point it to the I've makers. It would allow air flow below the ice and you could pull some of the coldest air up and over to your ice makers.
I'm working on something, video out soon.
I think the biggest advantage to thermal mass and having large jugs or whatever form of ice in there are going to be that if you ever lose power it’s going to keep it frozen better and you’ll be able to survive the power outage a lot longer.
Or just pull out my generators 😁
I got one the table top machines and the cubes are round & hollow there great for drinks but dont last for cooler use unless you pre chill the cooler & everything going in it ! I get a gallon bag ice in about a hours time if im right there when the full light pops on & i'll run it maybe 3 times a week making a 1/2 gallon bag as that is what fits my 56 oz mug _ 2 16.9 oz Pepsi's !
I got a clear cube one because everyone said that would be the best, we shall test soon!
Aluminum bread pans freeze block ice really quick.
To really maximize total production with cubes and not in a block production way then build a stand for it so your coolers can slide under it for storage, insulate the heck out of it on all sides, put a hole in the bottom front size or very bottom with a flapper door and ice auger. That way the lid never opens and you can easily fill coolers too. Lastly, remove the side compressor panel to maximize air flow to the condenser coil which the only way the freezer is able to reject the heat taken in through the refrigerant lines.
when you have the bottom empty, there isn't the barrier of the frost. That is the coldest part and the air is hitting it. When the freezer is half full, you also have the effect of some thermal mass. The only way to test that, is to place frozen food in the center so it has a thermal mass but with the sides free from frost.
enjoyed watching this series!!! new subscriber!!!
Thank you for the support
The frost is insulation.
yeah. scrape the frost off the sizes and it will help more.... I don' think your test is going to show much difference....
Great effort and results. What I find interesting is that that freezer is running on less than 100 watts average. As for your questions about seeminly non-intuitive results, your attention to numerical detail is excellent, but is over interpreted. In short, I see no reason your results would be reproducible to 3 significant figures, meaning your variability comes from temperature control variables that you are controlling to about
You are trying to drain the Heat out of the freezer. The freezer coils are the drains. Frost over the freezer coils impedes the drainage just like leaves on a water drain impede drainage. That's why Eskimos build Igloo shelters when it is 60 below zero in the Arctic. Fans help move the heat towards the coils so that the heat can drain from the freezer. Until the heat makes it through the coil material and is absorbed by the refrigerant, you can't get rid of the Heat. It is trapped inside the freezer. When the freezer is half full of ice, the air can only reach half of the coil surface to drain the heat from the freezer. Yes thermal Mass inside the freezer acts as a capacitor and will help absorb the heat from the ice makers but it will slow down the removal of the heat from inside the freezer until the heat makes it through the ice cubes and frost to the freezer coils.
So he should build a box inside to keep the ice off of the walls. An air moat if you will.
@@nofear1999 You can also try putting thin stainless steel sheets against all the walls. The metal will regulate the transfer of heat easier as the ice builts up. Plus you will only have a slightly smaller volume inside with the metal walls.
The walls are aluminum, they conduct temperature quite well.
@@TKCL Yes for sure, but not when covered with frost...
Aluminum has a heat conductivity of 160W/mK, ice 2.22W/mK frost/snow 0.2W/mK, and water at 0.6W/mK.
So Aluminium is 80 times more efficient to conduct heat than ice, 320 times more efficient than frost/ice, and 266 times better the water.
So you would actually improve efficiency (ten times or more) if you would have solid ice on the walls compared to a frost/snow/ice combination (but still way worse than clean walls).
I will explain the 160W/mK number/description. 160W of energy is transferred thru 1 meter of aluminum with a 1m2 by 1meter of the material with 1 degree Kelvin temperature raise. Higher numbers mean more energy transfer and lower numbers equals better insulation. Silver 420W/mK, copper 370W/mK, air 0.025W/mK. I know it is al SI units but for relativity, it is all the same as US customary units. 1meter is about 3 feet and 1m2 is about 10 square feet and 1C or K is 1.8F.
The interesting part with the last number of air (0.025W/mK) explains why you get so much better results with a few fans inside the box. Without any circulation is air an excellent insulator, but air will always circulate when there are temperature differences (without it would no cooling occur inside the freezer chest as an example but the fan improves it a lot). This also explains why glass woll is such a great insulation material, it basically only blocks air circulation (glass itself is 0.6W/mK, about the same as water).
I really like this series on your DIY ice machine. I think you proved that thermal mass doesn't have an effect on ice production it has an effect on freezer efficiency. Water is still going to freeze at 32° whether the freezer is at 10° or -2°. What I think you're missing is how long it takes to freeze the water and how much time your ice maker machines are taking to accomplish that task. In other words, time should be considered an important variable.
How many ice cycles are you getting in an hour?
What determines on your ice machines that the ice is ready to be dumped. Have you looked into that? Also, how does the ice machine know that its tray has ice and not almost frozen water? Is this a program-driven event or a sensor that is reading the water tray temperature? Once you know what device or thing is driving the ice dumping you should be able to increase your yield.
I have a hunch that if the event is time-driven then smaller cubes won't change the yields unless the timer decreases as the water levels in the tray are lowered. But if you have a sensor reading the water temperature in the tray then your yields should improve with smaller cubes. Because you should get more ice cycles per hour versus the larger cubes. There could be a sweet spot in there between cube size and time to achieve ice cubes.
Good luck on your efforts
It has a thermostat that reads the mold temperature and then triggers a short timed dump cycle. The quicker you can get the mold to temp the more dump cycles that are triggered.
You are most likely getting a faster harvest with a empty box. If you can add a relay to shut the fans off when you go into harvest you should get over 10 lbs. You might also try pointing 1 fan down, and pulling air across the trays with the other. The idea being to get a vertical loop going with the coldest air from the bottom of the box flowing across the trays.
I have the Opal Table Top ice maker. Love the "Sonic" Ice it makes
I wonder if there is a way to put a scale under the freezer and just track how much it goes up each day so you don’t have to open it. This is an AWESOME project though. Love it!
You have tried a lot of stuff. Have you tried a small fan placed on your concrete floor pointed at the freezer. Concrete is cooler than the temp in the building and thus you can help your freezer stay about the temp of the concrete. You could try it for the 24-hour test.
That's in a upcoming test
Apparently the frost was offering some thermal mass.
I agree, a half full freezer limits the air flow.
The most efficient way to test thermal mass is with dry ice, 2.5lbs per sq foot over a 24 hour period, divide ice production vs dry ice weight loss, times the sq footage will equal your thermal mass efficiency range minimum... You can test this with block ice , no block ice, ice storage amounts (full/half full/etc), when your ice production number matches your thermal mass number then you'll have your most efficient ice production possible, fans or no fans.....
If you got some cheap bathroom scales under the corners of the freezer you would be able to monitor the production without opening the door.
If you did that you could put a webcam up with a thermometer and barometer so you cold graph the change in production as the atmospherics change over a longer period of time.
Hell with accurate enough scales you could even count out how many times the ice makes fill with water.
As for the more production with no ice,
The air temp is what freezes the ice so the more the air can flow across the walls the colder the air and intern the faster the water will freeze, so if you were to keep the ice in a basket leaving a 2-inch + gap all around the air temp would be lower increasing production.
Your air circulation theory may be on point. And I wouldn’t be shocked if you blow past your past results by combined optional air flow with thermal mass. Because I find it strange how with no thermal mass it produced .7lbs more ice only using .08kwh more power.
So I’m interested in if you connect some small air ducts (strong enough to withstand the weight of a lot of ice) to the new fan and tunnel it in a U shape position pointing towards the ice makers. So as the freezer is filling up and covering the ducts with ice, making the tunnel cooler in turn circulating much colder air. I wouldn’t be surprised if you are finally able to reach 0 degrees in no time, using less energy.
(But of course we will have to take into account the power needed to run an additional fan.)
I’m excited to see your next video! My husband and I have been looking to get a nice size ice maker, but my frugal nature wouldn’t let me waste the money. So once you are able to crack the code of fully optimizing this diy ice maker, I will be taking this route and making one myself. Thanks!
Thank you for watching, glad you are enjoying it!
oh no its an addiction now!! Looks like you are hitting all the right things here soon, keeping the heat away in the first place that is. Curious to see what will save you the most. (other than leaving the lid closed)
Floridaman loves the ice videos, hello fellow Floridaman
Nice name!
I suggested thermal mass, that does help when you open and use the chest. Either thermal mass or electricity running the compressor keep it at a specific temp.. unless you can make the temp lower neither will make the water colder faster(freezing faster).. but making the machine colder and having thermal mass will increase production( because when you open it more often, the temp doesn't drop).. other option is to figure out a way to agitate the water in the maker.. that would certainly make it freeze faster but that would be really hard to do..
You should get a govee Bluetooth thermometer off Amazon. It logs temps when you not connected. I use it with mine outdoor fridge and freezer and you can see when doors were open and when the compressor cycles.
Thanks
Yolink makes so great ones that inuse and onlt $50. They run off aa and work forblike a year. Got one in my rv fridge an d one in my 7.0 cubic ice chest.
Try this put the fans lower in the bottom blowing up towards the ice makers with heat rising it might freeze the cubes faster ! lol your already on it right after i posted this you talked about it !
I'm kind of on the same page, definitely pulling lower, colder air.
Great video series. What controls the timing when the ice makers ejecting the ice? Is it a timer or temperature sensor? I think it might be a mechanical timer or stepper motor. Let us know. If it's a timer/stepper motor controlling the ejection, you could find a creative way to speed it up and find the best point to eject the ice earlier.
There is a thermostat that reads the mold/tray temperature, it then triggers a short timed dump cycle. The quicker you can get the mold to temp the more dump cycles that are triggered
I've also watched a review video on the sonic style ice maker as well. Its like 500 bucks but if you love the soft ice its worth every penny lol. Im probably going to buy one for my dad. He enjoys that style of ice.
They are not cheap, but I do not know what the price will be for this new one. I'll let everyone know as soon as the company let's me know about its release.
my thought on the fans is to put them in the top left hooked up to pipes going down and across the bottom then back up so the air coming out is blowing on the bottom of the ice maker trays.
I'm working on something similar
snow/sidewall frost is a good insulator so more frost could be one factor in power consumption.
Energy usage is up due to the side walls not being frosted. That is equivalent to thermal mass but built up into the insulation and metal.
I know there's been a mention of cooling the intake water, and also moving air past the compressor to help it dissipate heat. Wonder if it's possible to rig both into one system to double the usage of the water cooling rig?
Figure some sort of mini fridge with a tube coil inside for the water cooling, and maybe a second batch of tubing with a small water pump to move some cooled water through an almost reversed radiator so that you get cool air blowing across the compressor instead of the hotter garage air.
Not sure where the power cost to performance makes the idea too extreme though.