Toyota reveals New hybrid hydrogen Combustion Engine to end EV 'hype'
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- Toyota reveals New hybrid hydrogen Combustion Engine to end EV 'hype'
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#toyota #hybrid #hydrogencombustion #engine #ev #hype
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Good luck trying to find a hydrogen filling station here in Japan. The last one in Chiba at Narita airport closed down years ago because it didn't have any customers.
So which company will replace my EV charger on my wall with a hydrogen pump for a few hundred quid?
Get those PV panels off your roof too, replace with hydrogen suckers.
Yeah, you just need a rooftop hydrogen capture machine that would require electricity to convert it to hydrogen. Lol it's as dumb as it sounds. Imagine the VP had an EV car and they're being forced to push hydrogen
Exactly!
this time, Toyota really makes efficient hydrogen combustion engine vehicles, which are more efficient than hydrogen fuel cell. No doubt at this time. The solution is that they make hybrid hydrogen combustion engine vehicles. They use smaller hydrogen combustion engine electricity generator to power vehicle motor with small onboard battery. The onboard hydrogen combustion engines do not spin the wheels, but just power the electric motors and charge small onboard batteries. The electric motors will spin the vehicle wheels. By that way, they achieve efficiency, regenerative brake function, and optimal efficient regime of combustion engines.
I am sure that you can absolutely believe their good efficiency of hydrogen combustion engine vehicle this time. Because the real practice, the real same examples on market is showing true high efficiency of this kind of hybrid hydrogen combusition engine vehicles. Look at the NISSAN KICKS cars, which also use combustion engines to power electric motors and small onboard batteries. The NISSAN KICKS cars show very impressive thermal efficiency about 50% in real life use cases in real markets. The NISSAN KICKS cars use gasoline combustion engines, not hydrogen combustion engines. But there is no difference in efficiency. They strongly prove that such hybrid hydrogen combustion engine vehicles can easily reach thermal efficiency 50% in real life use cases.
It's not about logic and common sense for these guys. They believe cars need to have ice to have a soul. A car needs something moving and breathing and vibratiing to be alive. Lol
There's this physics problem.
It takes energy to break the oxygen/hydrogen bond in water in order to produce hydrogen.
It takes energy to compress the hydrogen so it can be realistically stored.
It takes energy to move hydrogen from plant to filling station.
Then there's an economic problem.
All that extra energy/electricity costs money.
The plants to generate and compress hydrogen cost money.
The trucks needed to move hydrogen to filling stations cost money.
The filling stations cost money.
Bottom line: With all those costs how can a H2 vehicle compete with a battery powered vehicle?
yep. At the end of the day an EV made in a factory using renewables would still be cheaper, cleaner and easier than any H2 hybrid vehicle. They're really trying to save their cash cow of having everyone depend on their fuel stations. Public chargers exist but those, while lucrative, aren't exactly necessary and people can literally just mostly have home charging as the costs go down.
@@nfzeta128 Tesla runs their own supercharger network. It is a cash positive business (if that s all you mean with lucrative) but it s barely noticable in the bottom line.
Most hydrogen is produced from natural gas -
a widely used process called steam methane reforming.
Easy to produce syngas from biomass contains hydrogen - there is no major interest in developing biomass - although it is renewable, it's too bulky and costly to transport.
During the 2nd world war when gasoline was rationed in Europe the use of biomass to produce syngas was common. Look up an Alabama man named Wayne Keith on the Drive-on-wood forum to learn how it's done. Wayne has driven coast to coast on syngas.
Short answer: They can't
They have fallen into sunk-cost fallacy. They can't justify the billions they have spent on the hydrogen tech to the BOD (and to the general public). Rather than accepting defeat, they'll spend some more, expecting some miracles will happen.
Breaking news: Toyota announces a hybrid diesel car
Breaking news: Toyota announces a diesel/gasoline car
Breaking news: Toyota announces a solid state diesel car
Breaking news: Toyota announces a hydrogen V8 car
Breaking news: Toyota announces the future is hybrid
Breaking news: Toyota announces a solid state battery
Repeat from the top.
BTW, any chance that Toyota execs will go to prison for the latest safety scandal?
no but now Japanese government hates them so they will always launch new probes.
Breaking news: Toyota announced bankruptcy
"...solid state diesel" You've said it all.
That's insane 😂😂😂@@r.a.monigold9789
😂
The only reason EV sales aren't taking over Legacy auto at the moment is because the EU and the USA are blocking Chinese EV sales !
thats good thing
@@RayJohnson1980 we have known that China was producing electric cars for a decade, so the real question should be why have western manufacturers sat on their hands?
No one blocks Chinese cars. You can buy Chinese cars anywhere in Europe.
@@slovackoinfoNot for long. EU tariffs coming. But I think the Chinese will just move the production to the EU (like they do in Hungary).
@@MrChakra108 BYD is building a vehicle manufacturing plant in Hungary to open in 2025/2026. "The facility will be built in the 300-hectare industrial park on the outskirts of Szeged, next to the Laser Institute ELI-ALPS, from where the Asian group will serve the European market."
Physics proves these technologies if perfected will never come close to the efficiency of EVs today.
That's what kills me when people say hydrogen is a solution instead of gasoline .. 😂
And ignore bev .. 🤦
There is no way hydrogen will go anywhere in the future ..
Shell is already closing all their refueling stations
... They figured it out finally . 😂
Most complex engine ever made mean Most expensive to service and maintained
this car is for display room not for the road
Wow! Way way too much truthiness! In fact whether this is simply another media stunt or attempted future reality, "Most expensive to service and maintained", I believe that is the goal!
I bet the major oil companies are involved with this.
I remember when Toyota wss working on hydrogen cars in the 1980s. There was one big pressure tank under the hood, and I didn't see the combustion engine. I think it's pride that prevents them from admitting they were wrong all along. If any country can will things into being simply by believing it, it's the Japanese, but not this time. H2 is a fool's errand.
Lots of old men with big egos controlling the levers of power in Japan's government and big corporations.
Toyota started hybrid research from 1975 during the Oil Crisis. They think and plan in decades. Hydrogen R&D is for future product development.
@@yo2trader539 Thinking a few decades ahead is definitely a good strategy... and is why China is dominating in EV right now (they started implementing their plans for dominating the entire supply chain 20 years ago).
But... sometimes mistakes are made. And it very much appears that Toyota miscalculated on whether the world would move towards EV or H2.
As many have already pointed out, H2 has serious problems scaling down to the size of an automobile. Maybe there is a future for H2 in some larger application. Maybe not. But in the very near future, China will be producing a very large quantity of EV cars that are cheaper than ICE cars and of equivalent or better quality. That is already moving the Global Majority towards the adoption of EVs and the implementation of EV infrastructure.
Toyota has missed the boat.
@@thechloromancer3310 Toyota never calculates like that. They develop various technologies because they follow consumer demand and market conditions. Chinese firms aren't making any money selling Battery-Electric Vehicles, while Toyota makes money selling hybrids. (Half of all Toyota global vehicles sales in FY2024 will be hybrids.) And all the automakers are pivoting to hybrids because that's what sells better than BEVs, even in China.
If customers only wanted BEVs, Toyota would be only making BEVs. But that is not what sells in volume in majority of Toyota's main markets. If Toyota wanted to make cheap and dangerous BEVs with cheap components, materials, and batteries and just focus on the interior like Chinese automakers, Toyota can do that too. But that is not what consumers want from Toyota.
Hydrogen research is continued for post-fossil fuel era, or post-hybrid era around 2040s in mind. It's why their concept car is called technology of the "future" or MIRAI. Diesel-powered trains, trucks, and buses will also upgraded with hydrogen. Steel sector will using hydrogen instead of coking coal for steel production. City gas will be shifting to hydrogen solutions as well.
Toyota didn't miss the boat. They're always way too early.
A lot of Kodak/MySpace/Yahoo moments for Japanese companies in the upcoming decades. 😉
Yeah we've been hearing that for quite a while now haven't we?
Toyota doing well and all the EV companies that were going to bury them?
Not so much.
I think toyota will win in industry with their hydrogen power, but not with civilian consumers @@oldbloke204
@@oldbloke204 Is that your conclusion?! xD We ve been hearing it, it hasn t happened = it s not gonna happen?!
The bases of someone's opinion say a lot about its character.
We ve passed the 5% adoption mark, we re at about 10% this year. (you could see that for yourself instead you decided to make a full out of yourself on a youtube comment...) At about 35% (in no more then 3-4 years) hell is unlished (, the money losses are going to be unrepearable. Keep up or get left behind.
You don t just start producing millions of affordable and profitable EVs out of nowhere, it takes a decade to develope the production line and the supplier pipeline. Legacy OEMs are late to the party.
Do your research, invest in Tesla.
@@oldbloke204 Lol and why next year they will be rebadging BYD cars?
@@oldbloke204Nokia stayed around for a while too. 😂
Toyota announced this "breakthrough" almost a year ago. No one has gotten excited about it because, while a technological feat, it doesn't solve the problems of using liquid hydrogen as a fuel. This is primarily related to the facts hydrogen has very low energy density and liquid hydrogen boils off at anything above -253C. This low energy density means that an SUV would seat two since the fuel tank would take up the space of a couple of large trash bins. The fact that hydrogen boils off above -253C means you'd have to replace the fuel pump once a week and you could go to bed with a half full tank and wake up to a tank which is a quarter full. We won't even get into the distribution issues.
Could find a use in a niche application but doesn't seem practical for general use.
Hydrogen costs more as a fuel than petrol or diesel. Toyota has spent almost a decade selling the Mirai and during that time they haven't solved this very basic problem.
Toyota is not pushing fossil oil.
It's pushing snake oil 😂
Game changing for Toyota - but not in a good way -:)
Problem is the cost for making H2 and transporting it. In the EU the oil companies are lobbying for going to H2. For them its a question of surviving. The idea for solving the transporting problem is that they would like to use the old gas pipes. Problem is that H2 atom is so small it's getting into the metal and create cracks. H2 is not the solution, look to Norway. They tried.
"In the EU the oil companies are lobbying for going to H2."
One of the biggest problems with our current democratic models. Assholes with money influencing government policy.
Moving the idrogen in the amount it would be needed to replace the transport sector would be asking for disasters to happen. Why spend energy to make hydrogen when you can use that same energy to move a vehcile directly?
This! Ev already exist, electricity can be transport cheaply, and electricity can be generated from many source outside the control of oil cartel. HYDROGEN has none of that!!! But I've seen strangers thing in the world, perhaps tomorrow there is a new breakthrough that can turn hydrogen into jello that you can hold in your hand!!!! Invented by the Chinese heheh.
And if we were that stupid, those random natural gas explosions we see in the news will get pushed off the front pages everywhere due to many more Hydrogen-2 explosions in the future as the H2 infrastructure becomes degraded and not regulated enough when we inevitably don't keep up that *overly complex* infrastructure. Sooner or later, BIG booms and massive FUBAR! Right, It's already happened big time with fossil fuels and nuclear.
I wish I’d know more about shorting stocks for the long range. I think it would be a great compliment to my long range view of Tesla stock. Double down on the EV transition. I worked in the refining business of making hydrogen for 30 years. Expensive to produce, hard to contain, hard to transport, CO2 is a waste product of production that is most often vented to the atmosphere. When a leak is ignited, mostly due to friction at the leak point, you cannot see the flame in the daylight. Natural gas and steam are the feedstocks in producing hydrogen. The reforming furnaces run at around 1400 degrees and are fired with natural gas or other refinery fuel sources that add more combustions gases to the atmosphere. What part of green energy is this whole operation?
Increased complexity just means more parts to sell you.
The simplicity of EVs is more appealing to me.
Outside of California (OK 1 in Hawaii) no hydrogen fuelling stations in the US, Shell recently closed all of their hydrogen stations in California.
In Europe maybe OK for Germany and Holland, Belgium sort of OK, France has few stations, UK has less than 20 stations mainly near London, rest of Europe is between 1-4 stations for each country.
Europe has said that cars built to use efuels, biofuels etc must be designed to not work with diesel and gasoline. UK uses zero emissions as their guide. UK allows ICE hybrid if the car can run for 100 miles on electricity only. No Hybrids currently sold in the UK can do this.
California and 9 other states have EV mandates for zero emission, I have not yet clarified their definition of what qualifies as zero emission.
The least the better.
I think we had one hydrogen station here, but that is gone now. I just don't like ICE, regardless of what they run on, for being overly complex designs where so much wear and tear can ruin the experience and wallet. More research need to go into battery, and figuring out a way to replace parts of a battery that has run out or sustained damage. Electric motors are very compact, have very few parts, and *SHOULD* provide a much *CHEAPER* car for the end user to buy. For H2 I just see nothing but logistical problems.
I'm a big fan of Toyota, but based only on what other owners state customer experience wise, never owned one myself. Wish them well and at least *hope* it works out for them. But I'm not buying into the H2 hype at all. Countries already have a future ICE ban in the works, so "max 30% EV" sounds like its being pulled out of thin air. We're banning sales of *new* ICE in, oh wow, 161 days!! Of course existing ICE will be allowed to run their lifetime. Will be interesting to see if that plays out according to plan.
I also believe we need to rethink our logistical ways. Instead of fast long hauler ICE trucks, convert to slower delivery by rail and intercity EV truck distribution. At least for the most part, I don't see ICE being removed completely. And it's not all going to be economically viable from a pure capitalist (forever growth) point of view. It's just a sad fact that will *HAVE* to be accepted.
Just 30% BEV?
What are they doing with the other 70%? Filling parking lots at their factory???
Yea, even if we just count busses and such, they'll make up a good few % points.
The amount of complexity meaning the high cost of these cars. Plus the huge running costs will mean it can’t compete with cheap Chinese EVs. Toyota will be the biggest Kodak event in history.
AI generated comments are the best.
To answer your question; No, I can't see this technology taking off. I can't see other major auto makers who have decided to pursue EVs to then spend billions more offering EVs, ICE, current hybrids, and now hydrogen hybrids; it's insane
Yes the infrastructure in the USA for EVs in not robust enough they need to invest more in that field to make buying and using those vehicles more practical
Hydrogen vehicles are a work in progress and a lot more needs to be done but Toyota has a lot of money so they’re still in the fight
This is comical if not absurd. Hydrogen isn’t going to end EV appeal. Hydrogen has its own set of challenges, but it’s just as useful if your talking ICE or EV.
Leave Akyo in place, that way Toyota will go down faster!
Interesting they are taking down hydrogen stations here. No one uses them.
The energy released by burning hydrogen or using it in a fuel cell is equal to the energy used to generate the hydrogen. It's not a perpetual motion machine. It's like ethanol.
One reason China and America will likely soon dominate the global EV market is that both nations have encouraged and supported EV only startups. In America, these include Tesla, Rivian, Lucid, Canoo, Aptera, Telo and a few others that are actually producing and selling EVs or plan to do so shortly. In China These include BYD, Neeta, Nio, Xpeng, Li Aito, and hundreds of other EV startups. Most European EV startups have already filed for bankruptcy. Japanese EV startups appear non-existent. I applaud small EV startups like Zacua Motors, Wahu Mobility, and larger successful startups like Gogoro and Vinfast producing and selling EVs elsewhere in the world.
My dear dad used to tell me, 'Watch that you don't get caught doing a fantastic job on the wrong thing.' I really think this sums up Toyota's behaviour. Very silly. They are increasing their chances of good out of business sooner than most might think, including their own leadership team.
Toyota has to compete with EVs that get their "fuel" delivered via the grid. Hydrogen requires tankers that can maintain the leakiest fuel gas at hundreds of atmospheres. This is what happens when auto execs focus on the car and ignore the problem of getting the fuel to the customers. There are other problems with hydrogen.
Tony Seba does a good video on why the hydrogen car will not win. Your comments on the infrastructure are spot on.
They're going to come up with/ a better flip phone in hope of beating my iPhone 15. Sure thing it's a winner.
Today's MBA students study why Kodak went bankrupt. 15 years later, students will do the same with Toyota.
Sam is wrong on virtually every level. Sam is getting very desperate in his defence of Bevangelism …!
yes he is wrong on every level and hydrogen car is the future for all flat-earther
Then don't listen to Sam and do some reading. Toyota sold 21,425 Mirai's from November 2014 to November 2022. Tesla sells that many EVs in 4.25 days, given they sold 1,845,985 cars in 2023. If hydrogen is the future and is so good, explain the reality?
The read about how they are CLOSING hydrogen filling stations in Europe and the UK. Still think that is a good sign for the hydrogen future?
@@zoransarin5411 NO reality... hydrogen car is not new, japan have it for a decade now and only have 170 filling station. UK about 12. so it will never get popular
My nearest H2 filling station is 4-5 hour round trip, i would not take a h2 car if it for free, Cant imagine drive that far to fill up
and have to worry you have enough to reach the filling station every time.
Average Efficiency of HFC is approx 60% compared to 40% of HICE. Hydrogen internal combustion engines make sense for drivers addicted to engine sounds not performance & efficiency.
Just needs a VTL system to power stuff when you have a power cut and be able to refuel at home and it will match my Ioniq 5.
Isn’t it amazing how Toyota is heralding revolutionary new “EV-killer” engines on a monthly basis? And did you also notice that all of them disappear as soon as the presentation is over, never to be seen or heard from again? With battery technology evolving fast, the ICE is on the brink of obsolescence.
Hydrogen tanks explode 0,34% every year.
If Norway had only Hydrogen vehicles. The Hydrogen infrastructure would costs more than 3 times the Norwegian oil fond (biggest in the world, own 1,5% of all stocks in the world).
3 Hydrogen filling station would explode every day. This for fuel cell.
With 3-4 times more hydrogen a car. The explotion will be even more frequent!
And, then there are the storage. You need 3-4 more storage. So, maybe you need a trailer?
So, why don't the Toyota CEO build a Hydrogen tank in his garden?
Toyota, the best, could becoming a hydrogen engine provider to the BYD MD, instead of BYD‘s gasoline engine covering 100km distance at 2.9 L gasoline. However, there is NO, and NOT LIKELY, hydrogen fuel station infrastructure, period.
Theres an inherent problem with using Hydrogen, it's typically separated using electricity. Burning it in an ICE is inefficient so you might as well have put the electricity into charging an EV
Regardless of the engine itself, you have the problem related to H2 production (same goes for e-fuel btw): it's super-expensive, and it will the that way forever - you'll have to waste a lot of electricity to create some, it would make sense only if electricity was super-cheap... but then why not using directly in a BEV???? The only way it might work, is that we are in a parallel universe where batteries are super-expensive (like 20x the current price) and solar panels are super-cheap... then we might us the excessive power produced during the day to produce H2 or E-Fuel.
If you could safely generate Hydrogen at home with water and electricity that could be interesting. The fuel/gas/charge station model is last century’s idea of milking money from every car owner.
imagine what Toyota could've done if they had actually tried to make an EV.
JCB in the UK has already ice hydrogen engines in their plant machinery!
"JCB’s pioneering range of machines are 100% electric with zero emissions, zero compromise on performance and a lot less noise. No other construction equipment manufacturer has more expertise in building electric machines, today."
Hydrogen I think, is a big winner in Africa and 3rd world countries.
I honestly believe the global north will be dominated by EVs with rural areas using ICE and hybrids.
But the Global South will be dominated by ICE, hybrids and Hydrogen fuel cells. With EVs being very small in those markets.
Mostly the rich and super rich will have EVS there.
The problem with fossil cars are the local environment.
People live in a toxic smog bobble that kills millions of people every year!
If you use efuel, or other stuff. If it create toxic air it's the same.
Norway are at 26% EV's on the road.
Norway have the worlds best winter olympians. So, they drive their EV's in the winter, too.
Didn't they say that about their solid state battery as well? Where is it?
maintenance issues ?
ICE engines are necessarily less efficient than batteries regardless of the fuel. Burning fuel generates heat, always. That heat doesn’t add to propelling the vehicle.
If someone hasn’t already done so - check out Engineering Explained with Jason Fenske. In one episode he goes into a lot of detail on the BMW version of the hydrogen engine (similar issues to Toyota). So unless they invent a way to have “solid” hydrogen without any super cooling sorry but no.
Hydrogen from renewable energy is clean, hydrogen from fossil fuel gives the same class of problems we get from existing fossil fuels.
Any plans for them to roll out hydrogen stations? Didn't think so.
Toyota has been making such promises for years, evenly spaced to try to discourage the demand for EVs. Nothing ever seems to come from them.
If they can lower the hydrogen price in the next 5 years to less than a dollar per liter or 2 dollar for a gallon, then its gonna help. This is the main thing when it comes to driving a lot. It sells itself if you can make it dirt cheap for the average joe.
Is it better and more efficient to use electricity directly rather than converting it into hydrogen and then using hydrogen?
The corrols h2 car you showed us was a YARIS.
Hydrogen energy density is less tahan gasoline by 4 times, thus it needs 4 time as much interior storage space as gasoline tank, to cover the same distance. It is insane. Regardless the cost to produce Hydrogen and the amount of energy thus pulotion far exceeds the gasoline or batteries.
How to go from being the best car company in the world, to going out of business.
More complexity = more cost, maintenance and breakdowns!
Only a fool would buy as fuel is more expensive and hazardous!
Looks seriously complex with more moving parts that a normal ICE
The world’s biggest car market has already gone over 30%. They are crazy.
I’ll bet on Mr Fusion getting to market acceptance before anything Toyota claim to be cooking up.
You overlook the big picture which is that hydrogen is the ` magic bullet ' to solve our climate change woes. That's why many nations are converting their entire energy systems to hydrogen. Germany is almost there.
In this context, hydrogen will become the single power source for all types of vehicles.
J.
It is not flex fuel at this point it is multi fuel engine 😂
Toyota seems to be on a Kamikaze mission to destroy their future sales and hence the company. Hydrogen can never have an ICE conversion efficiency greater than 45%. If we are talking about hydrogen fuel cells combined with electric motors, the max fuel cell electrical conversion efficiency is around 60%, or around 55% to the motor. EVs are around 90% efficient to the motor. That says it all and is all one needs to understand about the efficiency of the three approaches.
I don't have a problem with Hydrogen. . . .IF they can get it to work AND it is cheaper than EVs. For now EVs are the winning horse so that is where I've put my money.
Sounds good, how is their 2020 solid state battery doing?
Hummm. Lets see: 10x as expensive, requires very heavy, high pressure tanks(700 times normal atmosphere), hot enough to literally melt engines, polluting during gas production , oh and as a bonus H2 is difficult to create and requires a very steady powerful energy source(So not from renewables). H2 sounds perfect :o. Well, perfect for big oil anyway. Toyota is so full of it.
Why would anyone want a reciprocating ICE engine regardless of what it runs on if you can have an electric motor instead? The performance, simplicity and reliability that is inherent in an electric motor beats an ICE every day of the week. Toyota just wants to keep selling parts.
Can it run 2400km per refill? Because BYD can.
Hi, Sam. Great topic for discussion, hydrogen engines. Let's toss one more data point into the mix...natural hydrogen deposits. Could be hugely important resources or exotic geology information. Too soon to know for sure, except we now have found some and will find more. Of course, hydrogen fueled ICE vehicles are still an enormous engineering challenge, but one Toyota might solve, just in time for advances in fuel cell technology to upset that market again. I suspect we should keep an eye on spaceship engine developments. If MethaLOX becomes the primary technology in space travel on the basis of methane being generally easier to handle than hydrogen there may be an exodus out of liquid hydrogen technologies studies at universities. Lots of maybe and if, if, if in all this. Should be fun to watch for a while.
And so how are we going to produce 3x more electricity to get the needed hydrogen compared to EV with batteries ?
Or they plan to produce hydrogen from petrol as mostly today and so increasing the release of carbon dioxide ?
This company and associâtes are toxic, nothing else.
From an engineering perspective, adding more complexity to a problem is never a good idea. Simple solutions are the best for long term problems. Current hybrid cars are currently MASSIVELY more likely to burst into flames than ICE cars, which are more likely to burst into flames than EVs. Toyota's solution? Add Hydrogen to the mix. Sure... Make something even more explosive, that will reduce fires.
I don ‘t understand why so meny smart people don’t understand basic physics
What about the availability of Hydrogen Vs ev chargers? i.e. there 14 hydrogen stations in the UK, total, compared to 17 with 5 miles of where I'm now sat in rural Yorkshire....
The least hydrogen stations the better
Japanese can't shake off their tendency to stick to the old technology and try to perfect it even obsolete.
While EVs are still not perfect (you still have a significant capacity degradation over time over say 10 years, albeit improving all the time), they are already significantly better, in most regards, than a Hydrogen solution (from what I have seen of prototypes and proposals) - even if the hydrogen solution and infrastructure was available today. EV motors are approaching perfection and batteries have always been the biggest weakness but are improving all the time and are already good enough (range + durability) for a significant proportion of the population.
For example we bought a second hand 2013 Nissan LEAF and my calculations showed that savings (over our already economical Honda Jazz / Fit) will have completely paid for the car in 5 years (that was 6 years ago!). Its 11 years old now and still going great (albeit 60% of its new range), despite an old battery chemistry. Its harder to justify a new car based off a running cost payback but they do offer other advantages (hence we also have a Tesla Model 3 for all the longer trips) - like being fun to drive, quiet and lots of convenient features.
Latest news related to car sales in Denmark for may 2024. More than 50% cars sold are EV's.... according to Toyota formula with the 30% CAP of EV's another country needs to reduce/limit the sales of EV's ;-)
So ridiculous: Hydrogen reality check: as a fuel, it's so expensive that Mirai owners are suing Toyota for dropping the fuel coupons that made ownership affordable. Access to public fueling stations is incredibly rare: Russia, the largest country in the world, has none. China is the world leader with 250 stations at last count, the US has 55, all in California, and Canada (the 2nd largest country in the world) only has 9.
Toyota and GM and Ford spend a lot on media. Tesla doesn't, that's why the eViking is basically a spokesman for tesla, since everyone else in the media is working the buyer of the adds.
No one wants to waste their time looking for the cheaper petrol station and wait in line. EVs are so much more convenient let alone the health benefits to your family. If you have solar there is no reason not to have an EV today.
Toyoda must show us the math... both for 30% EV ceiling and hydrogen combustion engine. Truth is, these are brown numbers, pulled from you know where.
Ten times the complication, and no trunk space, ten times the safety risk, and no advantage over just a battery, ten times the promises, and no delivery date just like all the whizz bang other "super future technology. This kind of crap is meant to produce FUD not cars...Toyota is desperate to hold off the transition for as long as it can to sucker as many people into buying its old cars before it is forced out of the market. It's just a last gasp effort to keep the gas engine alive a little longer. Another delay tactic till they can catch up to Tesla.
Toyota are building a brand new Flintmobile/Cavemobile. Do Toyota think we are the Flinstones?
That'd actually be quite popular
Hydrogen will never be an option for transport as it will be at least seven times more expensive than just using the same energi directly to charge the batteries in an EV.
Hydrolysis of water to make hydrogen uses energi, then you need more energi to refrigerate hydrogen for transport it to the pumping stations.
After you have filled your vehicle you combust it at what, 25-45% efficiency?
Or you can just plug in your EV at home and get 95% efficiency...
Try keeping hydrogen safe, it's basically impossible to prevent leaks as hydrogen atoms are so small and passes through almost everything, while newer batteries like LFP or Sodium basicly have none of the fire hazards of Lithium-Ion batteries.
Hydrogen is a waste of time and money and a much greater hazard.
No…. Lots of hydrogen refueling stations have shut down leaving early adopters with the Mirai stranded - Electric cars you can refuel at home….
Hi Sam the whole hydrogen powered vehicle can be confusing the concept of a water powered car
Is disturbing and exciting
Image you fill up your car with water and as you drive it uses hydrogen , generates hydrogen by electrolysis
And store's it for later uses and covers about a thousand kilometres before refilling
And having a car that uses battery , fuel cells , and highly modified internal combustion engines
That doesn't relies on fuel companies and only emissions are water vapour and hot air
Also not forgetting the micro plastic from the tyres .?
The evolution of a low emission vehicle that is reliable easy to use and economic as well as a plentiful cheap energy supply on hand to operate , always creates winner's, and losers in the first people that invest in these vehicles . It's a human program that s been going on for over 100years ..
Always have huge costs
Toyota will be history sooooon if they keep thinking they replace EV tech
A hybrid needs a smaller battery. I think Toyota bets on inavailability of materials for transport to be all EV.
No one is wasting money building hydrogen filling stations.
How could Toyota be so commuted to extinction?
$200 to fill the tank of a Toyota Mirai. Think I will wait on the hydrogen revolution.
You could put a Lexus/Toyota badge on a pile of poop and ToyoTuRDs will line up for them.
Burning hydrogen directly creates NOX just as diesel engines! No wonder cause 70% of the air is nitrogen! 😅
So burning hydrogen is a very bad idea!
It is an extremely reactive gas!
Don't forget that fossil fuel companies own substantial stock in automakers!
Yeah, right, just the the Toyota video I viewed 5 minutes ago about their Methane engine which will end EVs. Or how about their Solid State Battery, also never arrived. Anything to have EV punters delay their buying decision until Toyota can catch up. Bordering on fraud.
The new gold rush is battery technology as EV's are the future.. Yet, Toyota decides to just go it alone on something else.
Toyota is not selling cars anymore but selling news, competing against the mainstream media.
This actually makes sense. All of the electric car money is going to waste. Great, a bunch of toxic battery materials, bye, bye.
Never underestimate the Japanese. Toyota will stay in the game a very long time even in an EV world.
When they tell you how complex something is, it probably is and they have nothing to show.