2025 RAM 3.0L I6 Hurricane VS RAM 5.7L V8 HEMI MPG And Performance Test! Is The New Engine Better?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 พ.ค. 2024
- Here is a comparison between a 2025 RAM 3.0L I6 twin turbo Hurricane and 2024 RAM 5.7L naturally aspirated V8 HEMI! || Like || Subscribe || Share || #ram
Larry H Miller Chrysler Jeep Dodge RAM Sandy
www.lhmchryslerjeep.com ||
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There’s been plenty of innovation to N/A engines. The problem here isn’t the manufacturers. It’s the EPA. a smaller turbo charged engine consuming the same or slightly better MPG is going to score better on the emissions tests. This is why ESS is a thing even on Ferrari now.
Nailed it right there. Most vehicles with former low stress V8s will outlast turbo V6s by a wide margin, and the fuel economy is rated right at that same V8 for normal driving or even worse when pulling cargo/towing. The emissions are what are driving cylinder reduction in engine options. Manufacturers were buying carbon credits prior to adopting turbocharged engines, but that's going away too.
@@C-M-E That all depends on how the engine is built. A turbo gas engine built with nodular iron cylinder liners, forged pistons, forged rods, forged crankshaft, beefy crank bearings and bearing caps... that engine can easily match the longevity of an engine like the 5.7 Hemi.
Fax
Doesn’t equal sales. They can keep them.
@@C-M-E "Carbon Credits"
Damn dude. Start the next revolution already. Enough of that BS
I really like the I6 engines. Boosted I6 engines have always had a special place in my heart from the 2JZ to the diesel Cummins.
I just wish they kept the Hemi as an option or something
Just can't trust any engine from Stellantis. It needs time to prove itself for truck duty. Grand Wagoneer likely rarely performs towing or hauling more than a few people.
@@kennetho5393 We have a customer with a Grand Wagoneer at a detail shop, and she’s been loving it so far. It hasn’t been long enough for me to comment on reliability just yet. I’m hoping for the best though
@@lilman227 I'm sure it's likable, just not feeling it for going the distance. That and I bet those turbos are expensive to replace.
@@kennetho5393 It has to tow and haul its chassis. That shit is obnoxiously heavy, 6,400lbs. Add a few obese children and that's more than enough load on the engine for it to have proven itself.
The 5.7 Hemi could have continued on but they really blew it when they decided to kick the can down the road and not modernize the 5.7 Hemi for the 2019 model year. They could have easily updated it with direct injection, a little more compression, and a revised cam to improve emissions and fuel efficiency. Look at GM, they're still making pushrod 16 valve V8's and announced that they are developing the next gen V8 for their trucks. I don't see why FCA/Stellantis couldn't have done the same.
Part of it is the sound, you don't buy hellcat to hear a v6 or a truck to hear a annoying exhaust. We want it for the rumble and the growl of 8 cylinders. Pretty soon all cars gonna be sounding like a dodge caravan lol
hunteryearwood9761 Most inline 6 engines sound good and a lot better than most v6s they aren’t v8s but don’t confuse them with a v6
Hemi all day long!
The inline 6 is a hemi.
@@blackericdenice no it's not
@@blackericdenice🤣🙄😳😳😳😳😳
@@Deke1 Yes it is. It has a hemispherical combustion chamber. They don't call it that but it is. As a matter of fact, the 3.6 v6 is also a hemi.
Slap a tuned twin turbo set up on the hemi and the power shoots up . Tune it for fuel efficiency and it still has more power. Ya it may cost more in the end for what you’d be paying but in the end a N/A Hemi is leagues ahead for easily adding more power and Trucks are not for commuting. They are intended for work. That’s why this is happening to us . We are not using them for work and the industry has realized that. I still say the inline six will wear out sooner than a V8 .
I have a 2013 Ram 5.7 HEMI. This truck has been a solid performer. At 71k miles right now.
My truck has a modified S&B cold air intake, a 48mm throttle body and an Edge tuner. It’s enough for me. Great, dependable driver.
BRING BACK THE HEMI!
I have a 2021 RAM Longhorn Limited with the 5.7 liter HEMI eTorque. I love the truck. Great review, young man.
First time watching ur vid and I don’t regret it at all, ur entertaining, funny, love ur way of thinking and comments about things, def gonna have to subscribe fss
Great comparison! Thank you for investing in high tech equipment. It makes your videos better!
The innovation I want to see from manufacturers is a modern Diesel engine that won’t destroy itself with EGR and other emissions equipment.
The EcoDiesel had enough noise to make me happy, it can easily get 25mpg combined in the real world. The problem is all the issues the engine has
I am a diesel fan . I had a 2016 eco and now have a 2020. Right now my EGR is stuck closed and am waiting for parts . I think the mileage is a bit less but part of me would like to leave the EGR stuck . I do believe the gen 3 solved a lot of issues and I would like to own this truck for a long time. Someone should have bought BMW’s inline 6 diesel as it was a great engine.
@@Marvin-fn7ks at 88,000 miles, the intake manifold on my 2016 EcoDiesel got clogged with wet soot and Ram refused to cover the repairs under the class action lawsuit settlement extended warranty. I believe Diesel is superior to gasoline, it’s a tragedy that the American government hates them
@@Marvin-fn7ks at 88,000 miles, the intake manifold on my 2016 EcoDiesel got clogged with wet soot and Ram refused to cover the repairs under the class action lawsuit settlement extended warranty. I believe Diesel is superior to gasoline, it’s a tragedy that the American government hates them
Duramax 3.0. I love mine and with a 2 inch lift (Trailboss model) with all terrain tires I get 26 to 27 regularly. Best ever is 31 mpg. 22 in City all day long. Others without factory lift get 30 + regularly. So far no emission issues but they are reported from time to time. Can you imagine small displacement with diesels in cars the kind of mileage we could get? EVs are a joke. America - the Land of the Stupid!
So what I’m hearing is…. Abolish the three letter agencies
I’ll take that hemi all day over the inline 6
Hahaha. Ok boomer.
Agreed ... Just really wish they offered the OG w/o auto start / stop or E-torque
Not a chance - and I have the Hemi now.
@@RotaxXS... not a smart comment..
@@Blitzkrieg.u812 how so?
I’m not sure I would equate the turbo 6 as being ‘woke’. Soulless, yes, but not woke. For the record, I’d also have the Hemi by choice.
It's definitely Woke. Neutered and woke. Shmdh
If you don't like something, that means it's woke.
I know you live in Salt Lake "I believe." Your observation on altitude is a key imho. I live in MT at 4500 feet. The turbo advantage in the mountains would be nice over my Hemi's but...
Thank you very useful test.
Great video, loads of information !!
Thanks!
What was with the 0-60 on the SST? Did it spin and downshift and then upshift?
Unique camera mounting point is great! Your better understanding of what’s important in reviews is refreshing. Interesting is the SST oil pressure is way lower on the Hemi.
Nice review.
You do an awesome job on these reviews!!! Thanks!👍👏🏻😊
Great review! I wonder what aftermarket muffler would sound good on the hurricane??? On my Hemi I went with a Flowmaster 40 and it sounds great even though I would like it a little bit louder lol
I'm thinking something from Briggs And Stratton would be a good fit.😂
I want those Flowmasters on my 1500 too, they do sound good.
@@tdub2888 🤣🤣🤣
So happy to see straight 6’s making a comeback just in general. They aren’t pretty or masculine in sound, but they make up for that in torque, low end, and reliability.
Thanks for the great review! Liked and sub . Beautiful drive , what city?
Great review very informative
The noise level was interesting, I just happened to check that on my 2023 Gladiator Rubicon this morning. With the meter (phone app) in a mount attached to the dash, at 70 mph the reading was 70db. I feel like that's a damn good number for a Jeep.
I have the same truck as you. I have slightly more noise because I have the manual which is a noisy gearbox but yes, the secret to them being this quiet is the magic of the Falken Wildpeak AT3s
thanx for th comparison I have an old 2003 ram with 4.7 still running and a 21 challenger with 392 there is no replacement for v8 sound and feel funny thing the 392 gets better mileage than the 4.7 unless I'm gettin on it which is most of the time 😂 i will soon purchase another ram was wondering about the inline 6 and feul mileage if it's compatible will go with another v8 probably my last truck I keep things for along time and I'm pushing 60 I'll leave the ev for the youngsters
Excellent video. Considering trading my 3.5 Ecoboost F-150 for a eTorgue Hemi Ram 1500, and I found this video informative. Only question now is do I wait for the Hurricane equipped 1500s?
My 04 Ram 1500 5.7 gets 16.3 mpg in the winter and up to 18 mpg in summer it has 3.91 anti spin differential 2100 rpm at 75 mph
What the hell is an "anti spin differential"?
@@AndyE30 limited slip diff. That's just what Chrysler calls it on their order forms.
@robertahrens4820..............I have a 2020 RAM REBEL with the HEMI 5.7 and I never get over 14 MPG! I have the 3.92 Diff. I LOVe the truck, but the MPG SUCKS!!
You will tow nothing and you will be happy.
Ram 1500 Soylent Edition
I can’t wait to see the RHO review
Bro please get your hands on 1500 with the GT package. I’d like to hear the difference between the 2024 hemi with GT package vs the 2025 inline 6 with GT package
People will keep leasing these, it's a great design with the exception of it not having port injection.
Just buy a 2500 and get the 6.4 which is a much better build vs the 5.7 and doesn't get all the EPA bs regulations the 1500 are subjected to.
@@AZFarmFun-hp1cu Yeah, but why are you using a truck as a commuter vehicle. I pretty much hate trucks anymore due to the fact people buy them to fit a particular image. Let's face it. No one is taking their $50 to $80k truck and filling it full of gravel or cement bags and using it to work with. So, it's kind of dumb to by something that is the equivalent of block going down the road and having the expectation of it getting great gas mileage. If I'm paying that much for the vehicle, why am I going to worry about gas mileage. Get a 2005 Corolla and save your money.
@JB Reviews
I'm interested in getting the Laramie Dually for my business
Do you think that would be a good idea to reach for a Laramie dually, or would it be a better idea just to get a 3500 Ram?
I'll be towing a aluminum flatbed trailer for my business
Gooseneck trailer? How much weight do you think you'll be towing max? High altitude? Low altitude? Are you stuck on RAM or are you open to Chevy/Ford?
That's why I proposed making a solar shingle, but again what would happen ??? If your not using oil & steel thing get hidden ???
My Hemi 0-60 was 5 seconds on the money with 35” tires. Did the work in my driveway to accomplish it. I’ve got an HO Cummins I’m tinkering with now, I’m really happy they are making this inline 6 half ton. Dodge had inline 6 gas engines for a long time and were very reliable
Nice side by side comparison bro!
Thanks bro!
My 2019 RAM has a Borla ATAK on it. She loud, and I'm going to miss the shit out of that sound when I do eventually get another truck. I've been super happy with this truck, so I plan on getting another RAM. That RHO might be in my future if this HO engine proves to be reliable. I'm in no hurry.
I want a ram too
I have the ATAK on my 2023 Ram and I love it.. that sound is masculine, lol!
Hoo wee, hot damn. Redneck.
dont hold your breathe on the I6 the chances its gonna be reliable are slim at best they just did a test run with them on the drag strip in a challenger and they had to replace the engine in less than 20 minutes
I just deleted my muffler and it sounds great with the remaining resonators
29psi of oil pressure? While driving?
I have a 3500 6.4 hemi .. I'm wondering what they are going to do with that engine
Great review
Thanks for watching!
@@JB_WhoWork 👍
How was that filmed. Very cool. Can't find same type of rig seen in viduo. Or what type of camera not seen. Thanks for any help.
look at the shadow on the hood.
I'd be curious to see what kind of temps the hurricane would be showing if you were working the truck hard (towing) and getting some heat soak with the turbos
2009 Ram1500 5.7 v8 has 220,000 ml and is still running but I did change timing chain, and oil pump at 100,000 If you do oil change and maintain a vehicle they’ll last you a long time
Manufacturers drooling to replace these over boosted small engines in 5 to 7 years at buyer's cost!
When are the 2025 3500rams coming out with the new transmission?
I have a 2020 RAM 1500 Classic Warlock Edition with Hemi and 3.92 gears, the only mod I did was a full K&N filter and I love the MDS because at 74mph I'm getting 29 MPG. I love the launch with those gears and I leave the Tow/Haul mode all the time because with braking it gears down and slows me down quicker. I don't have to worry about range either with a 32 gallon tank.
I enjoy the 3.0L inline turbo 6 cylinder in my S60 T6 very much. It's an "older tech" turbo making only 100HP/L from a less sophisticated turbo and fuel system (port injected), but it's an absolute pleasure to drive. Near turbine smooth, power all over the RPM range, no vibration or noise. I would be the type who would probably prefer the inline 6, especially living at 7400ft elevation. The power advantages at high elevation are startling. I get 0-60 times up here that aren't far off what these do near sea-level.
I moved from BMW to Volvo to live in a better area. Those I6 turbo S60’s were awesome. I had a chance to rip on an S60 Polestar. I’d take it over a 340i in a heartbeat back then. Special!
aye factory port injection is better for mods anyway
Where is the dip stick to check the oil on the I6 ?
I noticed the Hemi has the E-Torque option, it doesn't add much but I wouldn't be surprised if it contributed to the wheel spin. Wonder how much better it would have been in the 0-60 with a grippier tire.
Super nice comparison between these two one is a 3.0 hurricane Inline 6 which is 6 inches long and the outgoing 5.7 Hemi
Thanks bro!
Probably the biggest innovation for ICE in recent memory was the CamInCam introduced in the 08 Viper which allowed independently variable exhaust valve timing in a push rod engine. Unfortunately all of the push rod engines on the market today use simple cam phasing that can't not make changes to overlap.
I'm a truck driver and I tell you the inline six with twin turbos can be very reliable.. Now I own a 2022 with the 5.7 and it's been flawless but I would definitely try that online 6 must be fun..
Excellent review mate. I like inline 6 cylinder engines. They are inherently smoother by design but a 3 liter turbo charged one worries me for the Long run. I can't see how they will be more durable and long lasting given the tasks trucks are asked to do.
Cheers 🇨🇦
The engine has a cast aluminum block, cross-bolted steel main bearing caps, a forged steel crankshaft, and forged steel connecting rods. The block is the only thing that might be the weak link strength wise..
Hemi, true and tested, this new engine, good luck. Sane mileage.
I've got a 21 RAM Rebel with the 5.7 eTorque and my salesman has been discussing the upcoming RHO, feels odd to be coming off a V8 to a I6 with 540 HP but I guess the Hurricane HO variant still gets the job done.
Gearing is very important I'd like to see the engines compared with equal gear ratios. That 0 to60 would be very close . My brother and I both have F350s with 7.3 engines. The difference is Gearing I have 4.30 vs. his 3.55s. My truck has better 0 to 60 times , it tows more and has more payload. My brother's truck does get better mpgs though not as much as you would think, though he does have a heavy foot perhaps why.
The difference is from power delivering much earlier in the curve with the turbo system, where the V8 has to get to 4800 RPM before it finds its power band. Back in the old days of extreme turbo lag, NA V8's had the advantage. But much like auto vs. stick, the advantage has completely flipped over the past 10 years. Little to no lag means power is pretty linear from 2000 RPM on up on a turbocharged engine.
I’m happy with 5.7 2019
The big comparison is what TFL did, in that they took the two big V8's offered on FORD and GM pickups and compared the mpg to the new hurricane twin turbo on the Ram. The giant surprise is that the 6 did THE WORST out of the bunch. Same exact test and controlled environment for all 3.
The oil pressure on that I6 was a little concerning. Only 20 some psi at 2k rpms? Seems awfully low...
My 2022 Ram 1500 with 5.7 etorgue, 3.92 rear is getting 20+ mpg locally driving. I disable the ESS and overide the MDS system. So all of the cylinders are always engaged.
@rkc8216......I have a 2020 RAM REBEL with 5.7 etorque and 3.92 gears, and I have never seen more than 17 MPG on the freeways. Just driving around, I get about 14 MPG! How do you disable the MDS system? Thanks in advance.
Yup just bought a 2024 hemi etorque and u do feel when it shifts gears
I just got a 2025, I had two hemi's prior and while I do miss the sound the Hurricane is a nice change. I will say The stop start does not activate hardly at all on the hurricane.
Nice comparison vid. Have to wonder about the durability over the long term between the V8 and the turbo straight 6. Especially if you use the truck as a truck and not just a pavement princess. I like to keep my vehicles a good 10 years and at least 150k millage. I had a turbo 4 back in the 80's (Merkur Xr4ti, look that one up). Always had to change the oil religiously every 3k with special turbo oil. Had worry about the system coking up. Glad that they are keeping the 6.4 Hemi BGE V8 in the HD's, for now. But it is frustrating that they no longer let you get the gas engine in the higher trim levels or MegaCab. Makes NO sense!
Owned a half dozen Ram trucks and loved everyone of them. Thought I would try a Ford EcoBoost and love it also. I do miss the sound of the Ram 5.7 though.🙄
I would wait a few years to see reliability of any of these engines. Let them go thru a few updates and you’ll have something good. Also, wish they would get these to run on regular gas. My Titan recommends premium but runs perfectly fine on regular. I had an 06 hemi that I had to put 89 octane in or it would knock and ping.
Ram neutered there truck !
Hope they didn’t design the same cross cylinder coolant ports that Ford did in their Eco-Boost line. Lots of engines failing as a result. My daughter’s Explorer motor went just over 60K miles before it had to be replaced.
What exactly is it you think they could do to both improve efficiency and increase power in a NA engine design? Turbocharging is the natural evolution of innovation in modern engine design. Yes it adds another level of complexity but that is the price you pay. Time will tell if the reliability is on par with the HEMI. Wheel-spin on the HEMI due to no turbo lag. No oil starvation on deactivated cylinders, why would you think that deactivation of the cylinder would cause oil starvation on the cylinder walls? Fuel consumption will be pretty similar, they have got the HEMI so well tuned that it really does pretty good. My Limited averages about 20MPG in mixed driving. Not gonna run to trade in my HEMI but I am also not totally afraid of the Hurricane even though it is not yet proven.
I would have preferred the old 4.0 I6 with an added turbo. I don’t know how I feel about a 3.0. I tow a 9,000 pound trailer, so I need the 3.92 rear.
Im keeping my Hemi. I think you better keep yours too. It's going to be worth a lot of money in a few years.
OEM engine has recently been all about emissions and reliablity during Fed mandated
emission warranty.
Hemi have a big camshaft lubrification design flaw. And I got the experience too, as many other around 200k kilometers (start with continuously increase of fuel consumption).
All that time and wasted energy to be slightly faster and barely more fuel efficient than the NA V8 originally designed over 2 decades ago….. marvelous work there Stellantis 🤦🏼♂️
I love my Hemi, but as a Heavy-Duty Mechanic that has worked on big diesels for 25 years, I'm not scared, at all, of an inline 6.
direct engine dual over head cams different gearing etc etc etc. What are you talking about there has been innovation for years. What was the gas mileage in a mid 90s truck?
Those technologies have been around forever. They are just not forced by the EPA to use them.
Alright now run them 400k and come back with results.
Thanks!
Thanks brother!
Crazy that the Hemi is within .2 0-30 but almost a second and a half slower to 60🤯
IF I were to buy a new Ram 1500? Especially 4x4, i would go with a Hemi, with the automatic and 3:55 gears. In any of the trim levels. I’m interested in the times, I’ve never driven a late Ram, but have driven a Colorado Crew Cab 4x4, V6 now for a few years. With the timing equipment hooked up I was able to get a 0-60 time of 6.6, with 1/8 mile in 8.2@97 mph. seconds! The only other truck I’ve ran with timing equipment was a sweet 1996 Chevy C1500 short bed reg cab, with 5.7 Vortec 5 speed with 3:42 gears and G80 auto lock. That got me a decent 0-60 of 6.2, 1/8 mile at 7.9@99mph. The biggest difference between these two was efficiency, the late model Colorado get 17-25 mpg, while the V8 C1500 Silverado only got 14-20.
What about if they put a turbo in 5.7 hemi ?
The reason why I like N/A V8 is for the longevity, reliability.
Compare the 2 engines when they've did the same type of work and over 150,000 miles.
Ram should have made a small displacement dual overhead cam V8 instead…. 318 cubes with dual overhead cams would slaughter coyotes all day
I like and appreciate your views on what you like in a truck .
Having 3.55 gears in the V8 Ram might have helped it get a tenth or two closer to the TT6 Ram 0 to 60.
Thanks for a good truck comparison video where "infotainment" and "Apple Car Play" were not mention even once.
In the truck with the in-line six, why are you running around on a 16th of a tank of fuel? It’s not your truck, but it’s still bad for the fuel pump..
Please take a closer look at the tach...the 6 cylinder breakdown wasn't close. 65 was barely over 1500.
Wish dodge would have used a aluminum block for the hemi and 4 cam variant.
Lighter engine, lower displacement, and turbo charged Hemi would have been what I wanted to see
@@JB_WhoWorka turbo on a hemi is like lipstick on a man
Idiot@@chadd587
4.6-5.2L Hemi with a Whipple would of been nice to see. Maybe add a 10-spd to the combo to satisfy EPA numbers..
@@JB_WhoWorklol sounds like you want a coyote
What i find interesting is the oil pressure being in the mid 40's on the 5.7 compared mid to high 20's when cruising on the inline 6.
@goated313 My Hemi's were always 30 the lowest and that was with 185,000 miles...Hot weather in traffic 30 was the lowest I noticed,usually 33 when hot.
I love the hemi though. I got a 1500 with 3.92 rear. I just fill her with 89 all the time and drive her hard, let the oil splash everywhere all the time and I don't have a single tick. She runs so clean and even does the farts in between shifts, sounds awesome!
Towing comparison next please!
+1 and let's see mpg. The i6 = premium and hemi 87 octane so mpg = $/mile.
Ive got a 25 ram SST and he's right truck is to quite! all that power with no bark to go with it is just strange especially for a Ram...idk maybe in the near future they will come out with some good exhaust and CAI to breathe little louder.
wow that 0-60 gap was shocking. Inline 6 twin turbo i guess Chrysler following Ford with turbo 6 cylinder. I hope to rent one of these from Enterprise for memorial day. I really enjoyed the Hemi i rented last time.
honestly this is no different then what happened with diesels ...
p.s. I like the Hurricane, it's a neat option but once you drive that actual non auto start / stop, no MDS good ole V8 grunt you forget about MPG or WHP
V8 grunt 😂😂😂😂
Engine design ideas behind V8 MDS and I6 turbo are similar: change volumetric
efficiency by driver and load demand. Most MDS systems have had valve train reliability issues, often so bad that drivers wanted their MDS systems to be hack delected. RAM
now trying something different, hopefully to stay away from expensive poor valve train reliability.
Give it a little time for tuners to touch them they'll be monsters
If this inline was N/A with bigger displacement then I would be on board for the torque and reliability.
I bought a 2016 F150 2.7 ecoboost new. The truck now has 101,000 miles. The only problem I have had was a bad cylinder head temp sensor @ 69,000 miles. This happen on a Sunday so I bought the $20 part from Autozone. When you first drive an ecoboost. You will put your foot in it and you are not going to get great mpg. After you learn not to get deep into boost. You will get better mpg than a v8. I don't have any problems towing when I need to.
Mercedes been running a I6 turbo for 50yrs. Smooth & quiet. Most European cars are. 1 to 2.5L turbo or small diesel.
I'll take a boosted i6 over a V8 most of the time many benefits over a v config plus it probably won't eat lifters and cams like hemis
I had identical 5.7s, one 3.92 and one 3.21. There was almost no difference in mpg.
I wonder why they didn't make a 3 liter v8 twin turbo. It would sound just like the 5.7 v8 but burn less fuel @ light throttle.
No it won't.lol smaller displacement will sound like a Ferrari and it will cost like 200,000 for a damn truck. Would you buy that? I know I won't
@@alwaysdriven How old are you? A cross plane 3.0 twin turbo v8 sound just like a cross plane 6.0 n/a v8. I guess you have never heard a Triumph TR8 run before. How is adding 2 cylinders going to kick the price up $110,000?
@@alwaysdriven th-cam.com/video/s_rDNmciPXg/w-d-xo.htmlsi=gbw0j3d5RdPAZfQW
321 rear end on the hemi is horrible 355 or better for towing and accel
Wheel spin traction control and gears make s difference
3:21 gears in the V8 improves economy but will make it slower off the line than the 3.55 geared V6 and also lower its real world towing capability
Interesting..but I would hard pressed to purchase a first-year model
same thought but...i purchased a 94 ram...450k miles 09 ram 250k miles and a 19 ram 150k miles ...all 3 not one problem with the engine or trans ...94 popped a rear end 09 replaced everything that had the words heating and AC and the 19 isnt broke in yet
@14sgs......That 3.0 SST Engine has been in the Jeeps for about a year now!