Watching this video made me realize that Itsuno took a lot of inspiration from Street Fighter Alpha 3's -ism system and Capcom vs SNK2's groove system for the styles system and that he did work on those games
I highly recommend giving the Nintendo switch version of dmc 3 a try, it adds on the fly weapon and style switching like 4 and 5 and it also has couch co op bloody palace with Vergil .
Finally - someone who understands Cerberus and why Dullahans are good actually. Also good on noticing the RPG stuff. That being said here's some stuff to add Rebellion's Drive: Since Rebellion is supposed to be the all-rounder tool, Drive fills in the role of a long-range attack in the basic moveset. It's almost "bad on purpose". It's ground wave gets caught up on terrain, its activation is too long, it doesn't have a bullet property like A&R's Crawler so it doesn't blow up Wraths, BUT - it can parry Beo's cages back at him if timed correctly. It is also the only other move along with Cerberus' SM Crystal that can launch up enemies that are too far away for a normal launcher. In addition to all of that - the lengthy animation is good for letting you buffer Stinger -> Million stab easily and if executed at the right distance, you'll launch the enemy, Stinger below them and then do a 180 and catch them with Mill Stab while they're falling. Artemis - Apart from having the coolest Gunslinger moves from all guns, Artemis is best when you're charging it while doing other moves and firing it in bursts. The GS single lock on is a high burst damage tool. Best used with Nevan, since Nevan attacks are long and give you plenty of time to charge Artemis. You can even charge Drive if you swap to Rebellion and hold the attack button during a Nevan Combo I. That way you both summon bats AND charge Drive. Fallens - Literally just Rebellion Combo A them. Reb Combo A's first two slashes are vertical and their hitbox extends above Dante, thus making them perfect both for Fallens and guaranteed hits on Dullahan gems. Leviathan either fires tripping beams or a homing projectile depending on whether it has absorbed enough of the red/green or white orbs dropped from enemies via its organs. (the right one also siphons DT from you, which is why usually people go for it). And guess what - the left organ is weak to Ice. Another Cerberus application. Nevan's voiced by Mary Elisabeth McGlynn so yeah - that explains the voice being memorable. (She also directer the ADR for the game IIRC) Lady - You can use Quick Silver to slow down her bullets and even hit them out of the air. Nevan's Air Raid - you kinda glossed over it (understandable - Nevan has a lot going against it as a Devil Arm and requires time to get around that) but Nevan's Air Raid has special counters by some bosses that cannot normally reach you in the air. When you activate Air Raid against Agni & Rudra for example, they gain this anti-air corkscrew spin attack. Doppelganger starts pelting you with his dark orb projectile constantly... which makes him REALLY easy since you can parry the ball with Vortex back at him. All you need is DT.
Cerberus TOO good n so are the dullahans yeeea rpg stuff seems like such a noticeable thing too once you sit down n really think about some of the mechanics Yooo what the heck that's awesome! Nvr would've guess how drive can do that too beowolfs pillars too. Oooh okok so Artemis shines while using gunslinger. that's pretty cool how everything does have their own niche uses like that Darn, you, FALLEN I'll keep that in mind for next time. If only those things would stay close PLEASE Bro Cerberues stays winning then just being everyone's weakness. Ppl Reeeeally need to try it out some time Dem that's pretty cool. She definitely knows what shes doing then w/o a doubt. A true Master Ok I REALLY missed out on quicksilver it sounds like. Seems like I'll have to use it when I get to her stage next time See, those extra details right there is what dmc2 needed. There's too many ways to passively fight bosses in 2 while 3 has an answer for all of your strats by the sounds of it. Now that's why 3 is so good Thanks for the extra tidbits! This stuff is always awesome to learn about
@@o_uwu_o And ofc I forgot to mention one thing. Enigmas' style of firing depends on how far away you are from them. If you're far away they fire in an arc and on higher difficulties they fire several volleys in an attempt to catch you. If you're close to them - then they aim straight at you and unlock their backdash dodge on higher difficulties. However since their arrows can be shattered - any multi-hit attack turns into a shield against them with the hard counter being Nevan's bats. As long as you have some of them surrounding Dante you're literally invulnerable to Enigma arrows and you get style points for free. tl;dr Enigmas behave exactly like how an actual archer would, variating their methods of fighting depending on the distance between them and the enemy.
@@vul4ak oooh that's pretty cool to know Now I'm just thinking how it would've been if we could reflect those back to em. So you can either destroy them w nevans really active atks or send an arrow back w a well timed swing of Rebellion to do dmg n stun. Just even More interesting ways to interact w these guys yknow
weird final take, I think enjoying the game only for the combat is something the designers very much welcomed as they continued to prioritize combat over other aspects in the following entries. The 2005 graphics sell a unique enviroment and temen ni gru looks sick but I'd say there is a reason dmc is known for its combat among other things
It’s kinda funny bcz Kingdom Hearts 2, another action game, came out the same year and was criticized for its level design compared to its predecessor. In exchange though, the combat system was heavily improved from the original.
I agree with your last point so hard. It gets kinda vexing when the only thing people take away from DMC is the combos and how cool they are. A lot of action games don’t need constant juggling to be good, enemy design and level design are just as if not MORE important. I personally don’t like a lot of enemies in DMC 3 nor do I think the level design is anything special which is why I don’t play it as much as DMC 1 which, while not being combo heavy, has a lot of fun enemies to fight and great level design.
It's something I've come to appreciate more n MORE. Alot of these earlier games on the og Xbox n ps2 had that sorta setup too w interconnected map, different stage layouts, n enemies that had some interesting patterns. Really want to see that come back more. N ooooh yee I'm w you there! DMC1 is still my favorite too
Thank You!!! To tell you the truth I was constantly refreshing to see when it would fiiiiinally tip over. N when it did - it was pretty Hype! I can't say it enough but appreciate you for the watch n the comment. Here's to more videos
ayo, my fav action game ever I never knew that devil trigger was different depending on your weapon. Time to replay ig And even I mostly used trickster. Upgrading that style and getting the teleport move was just too addicting lol And you're right about how this game ( and even the 1st ) was less about styling on enemies but is more about understanding the combat and the enemies. The style system is the cherry on top of that rather than just being the focus of the combat Personally I've also really loved enemies like the dullahans which have a trick to them so to speak. I think my favourite enemy is still the spiders though. And yeah, I never really realised how integral the castlevania inspirations were to this series till I saw your videos lol As always, amazing video man.
Glad I delivered on this 1 man bc it's an amazing game that deserves the extra attention. How else can we treat this all time classic? Hey any reason to replay it again sounds like a good reason to me. N definitely these first few games had a very different goal when it came to its gameplay overall - something we should appreciate yknow Hmmm I think dullahans are my favorite enemy for that reason - reminds me of a dmc1 in alot of ways. Just too cool looking n I really like how differently we encounter em throughout the game. Spiders are super fun too EZ N yo it barely hit me too just how much castlevania shows up as an influence. Makes me like DMC quite alot more than I already did. N once again thanks for sticking around to check out my videos - appreciate it a lot
Last time I played 3 I tried a Rebellion/Nevan/Shotgun/Spiral/Gunslinger setup and let me tell you it was really something if you can get into a groove with it. Also, FINALLY somebody appreciates the Demon Chessboard, one of my favorite bosses.
Yo that's awesome! That's something I hope I got across but dmc3 is pretty genius for giving us so many ways to customize our loadout. YUUUP I had to man the chess board is just so dem cool in a lot ways. Fingers crossed we get more fans to join our side
I'm suprised you have a positive impression on the more controversial enemies on DMC3. IMO Soul eaters just kill the pace of the game, but thankfully you don't encounter them much. Enigmas and spiders start being REALLY obnoxious on higher difficulties. Blood goyles aren't much fun either. I think the problem with some of these enemies is that they require one specific way to kill them I think? I'm having trouble putting to words the flaws of their enemy design.
I think dmc3se combo mads back in 2006~2008 is the major reason why people thought dmc series is all about combos and nothing more, despite it has some other unique qualities of the game but people just focus on flashy combos because hey, dmc3se has the most advanced combo system in action game genre back in the day, and personally i think it still is in today's standard.. this is what itsuno can really do in this series, push combat system to the absolute limit and I love this part of his vision, however... I am never really a fan of he and his team's weird design decisions in this game and sequels, despite dmc3 is on par and in some ways might be harder than dmc1 in terms of difficulty experience, the short comings of dmc3 cannot be ignored, which i've mentioned in your previous videos before annd it seems most of the people never really cared about other aspects of the game despite they all plays massive role in a video game.. dmc3 on it's own is still pretty legendary tho (because it revived the franchise), and im glad devs perfected dmc3's combat and movement system aka dmc3se switch edition(despite we have to wait 15+ years...lol), but despite with that version of the game the flaws of dmc3 still present since... level design is still as tedious as it used to be, just way less annoying due to style switch system can pretty much deal every design flaws in the game, i just wish devs actually improve a bit more than just weapon wheels and style switch system in the game tho. still thx to the improvements of switch version, i enjoy dmc3's dmd way much more than ever before, since i can literally play as i intended to be instead i have to play with certain rules that may make the game feels more tedious, still thx to the improvements of switch edition, it is way more enjoyable and is actually on par with dmc1 in combat experience alone due to everything works pretty well together. sadly... this might be hardest and the last actually very challengeable action game itsuno ever made, because games he made after this are... mostly pretty easy and with way more streamlined combat system that makes combo expression much more limited, and yea level design is even worst in dmc4 and oh gawd dmc4's chess game is just awful, yea let's mix chess game with boss rush! that should be fun! dmc3se is still one of my most replayed games of all time, and in some ways i might've spent way more time in dmc3se than i would like to admit lol, it's been 19 years since i play dmc3 for the very first time, and it is my first dmc game in the time when dmc1 was somewhat stupidly rare and hard to find for a copy to play back in the day, I loved it I played it a heck lot and I've spent so much time just try to push my skills in the limit to see if i can handle dmd in the most ideal way possible, and thx to the switch version of the game, I can do way much more than just og ps2 dmc3se ever could lol, but when we put combat and some of the pretty good boss fights aside, dmc3 can be so much better if itsuno actually learnt the right lessons from dmc1... but hey that could be just me xd great videos as usual! cant wait to see more of your videos in the future :D
Most definitely. Makes a lot of sense why 3 is recommended as a good starting point for new players. Just has it all n does it right too! Oh yeah there's more to appreciate about the series outside of its combat. It's a packaged deal yknow n it all goes towards making a full experience Just took 15yrs no biggie haha! But yea the switch version is very interesting for its changes n additions. Doesn't fix much true but I like how it gives us a new way to play 3 after all these yrs. Makes it feel like a new game in a way You're a REAL fan of 3 That's awesome you really put the time in. N only the most dedicated can see where it can be approved but I'm glad the switch rerelease gave you some extra life from the game. N oh yea In general huh more ppl should learn from DMC1. Glad you enjoyed it! N I really appreciate how you watched these n gave your thoughts too. We are Far from finished so here's to more videos!
Drive can very easily combo from Agni and rudra sprint attack because you can just hold the button down as you’re doing the attack just switch to rebellion whilst doing so.
Finally! Also sorry, TH-cam doesn't like external links. Drive is much easier to use with even short Free Ride, you don't need full charge to use it even.
54:16 what central hub lol? Having optional combat encounters doesn’t mean that their main focus wasn’t combat, it was obviously their main focus. I don’t think anyone thinks dmc is just a combo simulator. Also people don’t like the enemies in dmc3 because they’re boring they don’t challenge you in interesting ways, other than the 7 hells which are great, all the other enemies have very simplistic movesets and are just boring. The worst enemy by far is the enigma on dmd or very hard they’ll just run away from you until l they’re cornered, this isn’t a interesting challenge it’s just tedious.
@@Aripuni1 not really Dmc4’s has Frosts, Assaults, and Angelos which are very fun and interesting to fight on dmd. Dmc5 has furies, Jeddeca’s, Riots, and Nobody’s I don’t consider these enemies punching bags on dmd.
@@Mister_Don888 there's a definitely a lost art to having actual lvl design in these games bc they had more in touch w their roots of 2d action games. Thats how we got the early greats like dmc1, ng1, kh1, zoe2, n the list goes on bc this genre is simply those games but in 3D. While the 'character action genre' is a limiting term since for most only involves kamiyas work n his indirect sequels - in turn limiting ppls scope which I'm not a fan of. It's also extremely arbitrary to its 'qualifications' instead of just describing good action games w engaging combat
A friend once told me that DMC3 has more JRPG elements than FF16 does, so that Action RPG comment is spot on Do you think you should've talked about how the style switch freestyle mode in the Switch and PC version affects the game? Having every ability and weapon available at once massively changes the way you approach combat and enemies after all. I agree that the gothic and otherworldly art direction is one of the most underappreciated aspects in both DMC1 and DMC3, its what helps them to give such an iconic and timeless look, and it always bothered me a little that they did away with it in DMC5
@@kermitwithamustache3885 Yeea its kinda funny how many rpg elements there are here. Nvr saw it that way until replaying it n just noticed hooow many lil connections can be made there. Like the fact ea enemy has stun values. So they will hyper armor until you pass that threshold which then has em take hitsun/launch. It's basically what stagger meters are today wildy enough Hmmm honestly - it didn't even cross my mind haha Guess I was so busy Juuust trying to get the game coveted. N really the changes of the mods/switch can be it's ooown thing entirely bc it does change the original game. Haven't thought about it too much but I would it's a big change. But I've heard the one style was a tech limitation. So now it's a thing about original creator intent or what the game is on release n how to be faithful to that. Yeee it's a Very wild topic w alot of perspectives but that seems extremely fitting for dmc series in general n I'm all for it N man o man. I'm sure my stances have been picked up on along the way w these dmc videos but yee 5 is going to be a doozie of a video I'll say that for SURE
Really weird take in the end. I dont think theres anything wrong with campaigns where its just combat arena after combat arena, especially if the best part of the action game is the combat. Makes more sense for a game to focus what its best at rather than spread itself thin by adding puzzles or platforming, especially if thats not the games strong suit y'know. People arent opposed to those being there but they have to be good if theyre going to be included. When people think of dmcs most fun gameplay moments, its the combat. I dont think after finishing dmc3 people think back to the platforming or puzzles as some of the most fun parts of the game. I think many people including me found them pretty weak. Especially when you compare them to actual dedicated platforming games like mario, where all the elements are tailor made to make platforming as interesting as it can be. Or actual puzzle games that actually make you think unlike dmc3s puzzles. So its not that crazy to prefer them not being there, in an action game of all things. The action game genre roots back to arcade beat em ups, which were also just combat encounter after combat encounter and those were really awesome games too because their combat systems are excellent. But like you said variety can be spice of life. As long all the elements come together i dont think anyone would be against it. But removing them and just having pure combat, in an action game, is also valid. Fun video otherwise.
I'm surprised that you didn't cover the Quicksilver and Doppelganger styles, nor how if you plug a second controller when using Doppelganger or teaming up with Virgil, a second player can control them.
This could just be me but those 2 always felt more like neat ideas but not something you'll use as a main option. So truthfully I haven't used em much but ooooh man I'm sure I'm missing out. N the vergil 2P seems like common knowledge these days but now that I think about it I could've tossed in a quick line about it juuuust in case
Not long enough, needs more water. This is indeed one whopper of a video and then some. There's a lot i can react to, but what sticks with me the most is the point you make on things like juggles and how the Style Meter is in your eyes so integral to the way the entire combat system works, and that there are more avenues to explore combat-heavy action games' depth and enjoyability beyond putting them in a vulnerability state, such as with the Dullahans. Enemies are indeed really, really important. A tango or a waltz aren't danced in your lonesome and if you have a competent partner, you want to be competent to match their steps and perhaps even take it to the next level. I hope that's a good comparison to make. I've often heard of how bad the bloodgoyles and chess pieces were, but despite never having played DMC3, they never struck me as outright bad in concept. Wouldn't mind seeing more chess-based creature designs in the future. Especially since i've learnt that there are different variations of chess with pieces such as elephants and camels. (I once tried designing some chess creatures with stylings not unlike those of the Tainted Coil from Brütal Legend, but they're alright folks. Thing was that the Black King and the White Queen kept trying to outdo each other on and on and on because they couldn't stand the other one winning. The normal pieces just wanted to *stop fighting* and finally do their own things again, but due to the rules of the board they kept being pulled back into the game, sometimes for days on end. There's a good ending to it, though. Some other folks come in and play real fast-pace chess and because they're the winners, it's their right to challenge the other again. But they're friends, so they don't do that, and thusly the Black King and White Queen can't command the other pieces to fight for them again. Tangent over) I'm very curious now what you will think of Soulstice when the opportunity for that may arise. Preferably after the DMC series is done for reasons of how much inspiration it takes from these games (seemingly mainly 5 and the reboot) as well as Bayonetta. Reason why i say that is because most if not all enemies have a form of stagger state, but to reach that you have to first fill up a kind of stun bar. Depending on the enemy, they can fall down and hit the floor thrice or twice to launch them again, but after that they'll have an invulnerability to being launched and thus their stun meter needs to be filled up again. Meanwhile, bosses operate in a way that i'd almost describee like a 3D platformer. You can pretty much always hit them which builds up the Style Meter/Rapture Meter hybrid (basically a Devil Trigger), but they have a shield bar. When this shield bar is depleted you have a set amount of time to deal as much damage to the health bar as you can before the full shield meter restores itself again. There is a beastiary to read up on stuff, and it'll tell you that there's some enemies that influence one another, like boosting damage/aggression of a particular enemy type. Or casting a shield over them-- or most interestingly, connect themselves to another enemy which makes them invulnerable until you have defeated that enemy. Anyway, there was some things that i think you missed out on like the other two Jester confrontations when he brings up the moon face and assumed you'd go over every single weapon move, but i realize that that is really a *lot* to go through. This video of yours is already a very in-depth look at all fronts of the combat and I enjoy returning to videos to look through the comment sections too. There's always something we may miss but instead of confronting or getting angry or indignant to the maker of a video over it, it's much nicer to have it be an opportunity to just further share knowledge from a point of view of "Yo, here's this cool thing as well" instead of an "uhm ackshually" attitude. Thank you very much for making this video. if you're not planning on making a peak of Combat video, which i'm personally not very interested in, you're about halfway through the DMC series. And you've got your work cut out for you on all of them. Good luck, take care, wish you well and may your month be good. Sidenote: If you're ever looking for footage of movesets from different (character) action games and button inputs, have a look at this channel. He's done movesets on the likes of the Gungrave games, Marlow Briggs and the Mask of Death, both Castlevania: Lords of Shadows games and the PS2 3D Castlevania ones, the Darksiders games, Onimusha, etc. He does good work with recording the movesets. It's a very niche thing to make videos about but i appreciate it a lot. www.youtube.com/@TheBanbanGames/videos Second sidenote: Don't know if i've talked about Kya: Dark Lineage and cookie Cutter with you, or the Maximo games, but those are worth putting on your list.
So far the longest video besides the tier ranking, just goes to show you how much depth is in this game. I love this game it’s one of my favorite games of all time right behind dmc 5, the only problem I have with the game is that they added way to many gimmick enemies, I’m fine if there’s unlaunchable enemy or one that you can only hit from the back, but the problem is that this game throws way to many, if they were used more sparingly I wouldn’t mind nearly as much.
There's a game called - demoniaca I haven't played it myself but it has that Look n fighting game inspired combat. Even a large movelist to unlock from what I saw. Heard it's rough around the edges but something like can be how a dmc metroidvania would turn out. But yea I think the idea could work if given the time
Closest to such a thing that i can think of would be the Dishwasher games by Ska Studios. o_uwu_o did make a video on that one. I guess The Dishwasher: Vampire Smile was more along the lines of Ninja Gaidne than DMC based on its speed and Izuna Drop equivalent.
I dont even push combos much in these games. I mainly go to master parry qnd counter mechanics Mixed with some effective combos. To me playing jus to do combos is kinda lame tbh
Soul Eaters, Dullahans, and Fallen are terrible enemies because they break the concept of the style meter. It's incredibly difficult and way too time consuming to attempt to achieve an S rank against these foes.
Watching this video made me realize that Itsuno took a lot of inspiration from Street Fighter Alpha 3's -ism system and Capcom vs SNK2's groove system for the styles system and that he did work on those games
Ooooh true true. I wouldn't doubt if there's some carry over right there
I highly recommend giving the Nintendo switch version of dmc 3 a try, it adds on the fly weapon and style switching like 4 and 5 and it also has couch co op bloody palace with Vergil .
Finally - someone who understands Cerberus and why Dullahans are good actually. Also good on noticing the RPG stuff.
That being said here's some stuff to add
Rebellion's Drive: Since Rebellion is supposed to be the all-rounder tool, Drive fills in the role of a long-range attack in the basic moveset. It's almost "bad on purpose". It's ground wave gets caught up on terrain, its activation is too long, it doesn't have a bullet property like A&R's Crawler so it doesn't blow up Wraths, BUT - it can parry Beo's cages back at him if timed correctly. It is also the only other move along with Cerberus' SM Crystal that can launch up enemies that are too far away for a normal launcher. In addition to all of that - the lengthy animation is good for letting you buffer Stinger -> Million stab easily and if executed at the right distance, you'll launch the enemy, Stinger below them and then do a 180 and catch them with Mill Stab while they're falling.
Artemis - Apart from having the coolest Gunslinger moves from all guns, Artemis is best when you're charging it while doing other moves and firing it in bursts. The GS single lock on is a high burst damage tool. Best used with Nevan, since Nevan attacks are long and give you plenty of time to charge Artemis. You can even charge Drive if you swap to Rebellion and hold the attack button during a Nevan Combo I. That way you both summon bats AND charge Drive.
Fallens - Literally just Rebellion Combo A them. Reb Combo A's first two slashes are vertical and their hitbox extends above Dante, thus making them perfect both for Fallens and guaranteed hits on Dullahan gems.
Leviathan either fires tripping beams or a homing projectile depending on whether it has absorbed enough of the red/green or white orbs dropped from enemies via its organs. (the right one also siphons DT from you, which is why usually people go for it). And guess what - the left organ is weak to Ice. Another Cerberus application.
Nevan's voiced by Mary Elisabeth McGlynn so yeah - that explains the voice being memorable. (She also directer the ADR for the game IIRC)
Lady - You can use Quick Silver to slow down her bullets and even hit them out of the air.
Nevan's Air Raid - you kinda glossed over it (understandable - Nevan has a lot going against it as a Devil Arm and requires time to get around that) but Nevan's Air Raid has special counters by some bosses that cannot normally reach you in the air. When you activate Air Raid against Agni & Rudra for example, they gain this anti-air corkscrew spin attack. Doppelganger starts pelting you with his dark orb projectile constantly... which makes him REALLY easy since you can parry the ball with Vortex back at him. All you need is DT.
Cerberus TOO good n so are the dullahans
yeeea rpg stuff seems like such a noticeable thing too once you sit down n really think about some of the mechanics
Yooo what the heck that's awesome! Nvr would've guess how drive can do that too beowolfs pillars too.
Oooh okok so Artemis shines while using gunslinger. that's pretty cool how everything does have their own niche uses like that
Darn, you, FALLEN
I'll keep that in mind for next time. If only those things would stay close PLEASE
Bro
Cerberues stays winning then just being everyone's weakness. Ppl Reeeeally need to try it out some time
Dem that's pretty cool. She definitely knows what shes doing then w/o a doubt. A true Master
Ok I REALLY missed out on quicksilver it sounds like. Seems like I'll have to use it when I get to her stage next time
See, those extra details right there is what dmc2 needed. There's too many ways to passively fight bosses in 2 while 3 has an answer for all of your strats by the sounds of it. Now that's why 3 is so good
Thanks for the extra tidbits! This stuff is always awesome to learn about
@@o_uwu_o And ofc I forgot to mention one thing.
Enigmas' style of firing depends on how far away you are from them. If you're far away they fire in an arc and on higher difficulties they fire several volleys in an attempt to catch you. If you're close to them - then they aim straight at you and unlock their backdash dodge on higher difficulties.
However since their arrows can be shattered - any multi-hit attack turns into a shield against them with the hard counter being Nevan's bats. As long as you have some of them surrounding Dante you're literally invulnerable to Enigma arrows and you get style points for free.
tl;dr Enigmas behave exactly like how an actual archer would, variating their methods of fighting depending on the distance between them and the enemy.
@@vul4ak oooh that's pretty cool to know
Now I'm just thinking how it would've been if we could reflect those back to em. So you can either destroy them w nevans really active atks or send an arrow back w a well timed swing of Rebellion to do dmg n stun. Just even More interesting ways to interact w these guys yknow
weird final take, I think enjoying the game only for the combat is something the designers very much welcomed as they continued to prioritize combat over other aspects in the following entries. The 2005 graphics sell a unique enviroment and temen ni gru looks sick but I'd say there is a reason dmc is known for its combat among other things
It’s kinda funny bcz Kingdom Hearts 2, another action game, came out the same year and was criticized for its level design compared to its predecessor. In exchange though, the combat system was heavily improved from the original.
I agree with your last point so hard. It gets kinda vexing when the only thing people take away from DMC is the combos and how cool they are. A lot of action games don’t need constant juggling to be good, enemy design and level design are just as if not MORE important. I personally don’t like a lot of enemies in DMC 3 nor do I think the level design is anything special which is why I don’t play it as much as DMC 1 which, while not being combo heavy, has a lot of fun enemies to fight and great level design.
It's something I've come to appreciate more n MORE. Alot of these earlier games on the og Xbox n ps2 had that sorta setup too w interconnected map, different stage layouts, n enemies that had some interesting patterns. Really want to see that come back more. N ooooh yee I'm w you there! DMC1 is still my favorite too
these vids are cool as shit bro keep it up
@@gmonet3124 I really appreciate that man! These are really fun to do n lucky for us there's alooooot more to go
here's ur 1000th sub awesome review especially the focus on the back and forth between the player and enemy. we def don't want juggle simulators
Thank You!!! To tell you the truth I was constantly refreshing to see when it would fiiiiinally tip over. N when it did - it was pretty Hype!
I can't say it enough but appreciate you for the watch n the comment. Here's to more videos
ayo, my fav action game ever
I never knew that devil trigger was different depending on your weapon. Time to replay ig
And even I mostly used trickster. Upgrading that style and getting the teleport move was just too addicting lol
And you're right about how this game ( and even the 1st ) was less about styling on enemies but is more about understanding the combat and the enemies. The style system is the cherry on top of that rather than just being the focus of the combat
Personally I've also really loved enemies like the dullahans which have a trick to them so to speak. I think my favourite enemy is still the spiders though.
And yeah, I never really realised how integral the castlevania inspirations were to this series till I saw your videos lol
As always, amazing video man.
Glad I delivered on this 1 man bc it's an amazing game that deserves the extra attention. How else can we treat this all time classic?
Hey any reason to replay it again sounds like a good reason to me. N definitely these first few games had a very different goal when it came to its gameplay overall - something we should appreciate yknow
Hmmm I think dullahans are my favorite enemy for that reason - reminds me of a dmc1 in alot of ways. Just too cool looking n I really like how differently we encounter em throughout the game. Spiders are super fun too EZ
N yo it barely hit me too just how much castlevania shows up as an influence. Makes me like DMC quite alot more than I already did. N once again thanks for sticking around to check out my videos - appreciate it a lot
Hideki kamiya said it himself his favourite action game is castlevania
Last time I played 3 I tried a Rebellion/Nevan/Shotgun/Spiral/Gunslinger setup and let me tell you it was really something if you can get into a groove with it.
Also, FINALLY somebody appreciates the Demon Chessboard, one of my favorite bosses.
Yo that's awesome! That's something I hope I got across but dmc3 is pretty genius for giving us so many ways to customize our loadout.
YUUUP I had to man the chess board is just so dem cool in a lot ways. Fingers crossed we get more fans to join our side
Weirdly enough, DMC 1 has some really satisfying sword slashes. Like your controller will rumble whenever you hit an enemy, compared to DMC 3.
I'm suprised you have a positive impression on the more controversial enemies on DMC3. IMO Soul eaters just kill the pace of the game, but thankfully you don't encounter them much. Enigmas and spiders start being REALLY obnoxious on higher difficulties. Blood goyles aren't much fun either.
I think the problem with some of these enemies is that they require one specific way to kill them I think? I'm having trouble putting to words the flaws of their enemy design.
I think dmc3se combo mads back in 2006~2008 is the major reason why people thought dmc series is all about combos and nothing more, despite it has some other unique qualities of the game but people just focus on flashy combos because hey, dmc3se has the most advanced combo system in action game genre back in the day, and personally i think it still is in today's standard..
this is what itsuno can really do in this series, push combat system to the absolute limit and I love this part of his vision, however... I am never really a fan of he and his team's weird design decisions in this game and sequels, despite dmc3 is on par and in some ways might be harder than dmc1 in terms of difficulty experience, the short comings of dmc3 cannot be ignored, which i've mentioned in your previous videos before annd it seems most of the people never really cared about other aspects of the game despite they all plays massive role in a video game..
dmc3 on it's own is still pretty legendary tho (because it revived the franchise), and im glad devs perfected dmc3's combat and movement system aka dmc3se switch edition(despite we have to wait 15+ years...lol), but despite with that version of the game the flaws of dmc3 still present since... level design is still as tedious as it used to be, just way less annoying due to style switch system can pretty much deal every design flaws in the game, i just wish devs actually improve a bit more than just weapon wheels and style switch system in the game tho.
still thx to the improvements of switch version, i enjoy dmc3's dmd way much more than ever before, since i can literally play as i intended to be instead i have to play with certain rules that may make the game feels more tedious, still thx to the improvements of switch edition, it is way more enjoyable and is actually on par with dmc1 in combat experience alone due to everything works pretty well together.
sadly... this might be hardest and the last actually very challengeable action game itsuno ever made, because games he made after this are... mostly pretty easy and with way more streamlined combat system that makes combo expression much more limited, and yea level design is even worst in dmc4 and oh gawd dmc4's chess game is just awful, yea let's mix chess game with boss rush! that should be fun!
dmc3se is still one of my most replayed games of all time, and in some ways i might've spent way more time in dmc3se than i would like to admit lol, it's been 19 years since i play dmc3 for the very first time, and it is my first dmc game in the time when dmc1 was somewhat stupidly rare and hard to find for a copy to play back in the day, I loved it I played it a heck lot and I've spent so much time just try to push my skills in the limit to see if i can handle dmd in the most ideal way possible, and thx to the switch version of the game, I can do way much more than just og ps2 dmc3se ever could lol, but when we put combat and some of the pretty good boss fights aside, dmc3 can be so much better if itsuno actually learnt the right lessons from dmc1... but hey that could be just me xd
great videos as usual! cant wait to see more of your videos in the future :D
Most definitely. Makes a lot of sense why 3 is recommended as a good starting point for new players. Just has it all n does it right too!
Oh yeah there's more to appreciate about the series outside of its combat. It's a packaged deal yknow n it all goes towards making a full experience
Just took 15yrs no biggie haha! But yea the switch version is very interesting for its changes n additions. Doesn't fix much true but I like how it gives us a new way to play 3 after all these yrs. Makes it feel like a new game in a way
You're a REAL fan of 3
That's awesome you really put the time in. N only the most dedicated can see where it can be approved but I'm glad the switch rerelease gave you some extra life from the game.
N oh yea In general huh more ppl should learn from DMC1.
Glad you enjoyed it! N I really appreciate how you watched these n gave your thoughts too. We are Far from finished so here's to more videos!
@@o_uwu_o cant wait to see more! keep it up! I cant wait to share more of my thoughts with ya! :D
Drive can very easily combo from Agni and rudra sprint attack because you can just hold the button down as you’re doing the attack just switch to rebellion whilst doing so.
Finally!
Also sorry, TH-cam doesn't like external links.
Drive is much easier to use with even short Free Ride, you don't need full charge to use it even.
Ooooh okok that's good know. Wish I gave it the time bc yeea I got it waaay too late
Godbless dude
An original point besides the deep breakdown
Thank you for that!
N yeea I really tried my best to add something new to the 2decade long discussion of dmc3. So I'm glad that got across in some way
I like buffering drive charge with nevan
54:16 what central hub lol?
Having optional combat encounters doesn’t mean that their main focus wasn’t combat, it was obviously their main focus.
I don’t think anyone thinks dmc is just a combo simulator.
Also people don’t like the enemies in dmc3 because they’re boring they don’t challenge you in interesting ways, other than the 7 hells which are great, all the other enemies have very simplistic movesets and are just boring.
The worst enemy by far is the enigma on dmd or very hard they’ll just run away from you until l they’re cornered, this isn’t a interesting challenge it’s just tedious.
Because DMC 4 and 5, people think DMC as combo simulator when you fight enemy that cant fight back aka punching bag
@@Aripuni1 not really Dmc4’s has Frosts, Assaults, and Angelos which are very fun and interesting to fight on dmd.
Dmc5 has furies, Jeddeca’s, Riots, and Nobody’s I don’t consider these enemies punching bags on dmd.
IT'S HERE BOYS
The wait was kiiiiinda long but hopefully I delivered. Had to do right by this classic
I come to character action games for the combat.
@@Mister_Don888 there's a definitely a lost art to having actual lvl design in these games bc they had more in touch w their roots of 2d action games. Thats how we got the early greats like dmc1, ng1, kh1, zoe2, n the list goes on bc this genre is simply those games but in 3D. While the 'character action genre' is a limiting term since for most only involves kamiyas work n his indirect sequels - in turn limiting ppls scope which I'm not a fan of. It's also extremely arbitrary to its 'qualifications' instead of just describing good action games w engaging combat
@@o_uwu_o Fair enough
A friend once told me that DMC3 has more JRPG elements than FF16 does, so that Action RPG comment is spot on
Do you think you should've talked about how the style switch freestyle mode in the Switch and PC version affects the game? Having every ability and weapon available at once massively changes the way you approach combat and enemies after all.
I agree that the gothic and otherworldly art direction is one of the most underappreciated aspects in both DMC1 and DMC3, its what helps them to give such an iconic and timeless look, and it always bothered me a little that they did away with it in DMC5
@@kermitwithamustache3885 Yeea its kinda funny how many rpg elements there are here. Nvr saw it that way until replaying it n just noticed hooow many lil connections can be made there. Like the fact ea enemy has stun values. So they will hyper armor until you pass that threshold which then has em take hitsun/launch. It's basically what stagger meters are today wildy enough
Hmmm honestly - it didn't even cross my mind haha
Guess I was so busy Juuust trying to get the game coveted. N really the changes of the mods/switch can be it's ooown thing entirely bc it does change the original game. Haven't thought about it too much but I would it's a big change. But I've heard the one style was a tech limitation. So now it's a thing about original creator intent or what the game is on release n how to be faithful to that. Yeee it's a Very wild topic w alot of perspectives but that seems extremely fitting for dmc series in general n I'm all for it
N man o man. I'm sure my stances have been picked up on along the way w these dmc videos but yee 5 is going to be a doozie of a video I'll say that for SURE
Really weird take in the end. I dont think theres anything wrong with campaigns where its just combat arena after combat arena, especially if the best part of the action game is the combat. Makes more sense for a game to focus what its best at rather than spread itself thin by adding puzzles or platforming, especially if thats not the games strong suit y'know. People arent opposed to those being there but they have to be good if theyre going to be included. When people think of dmcs most fun gameplay moments, its the combat. I dont think after finishing dmc3 people think back to the platforming or puzzles as some of the most fun parts of the game. I think many people including me found them pretty weak. Especially when you compare them to actual dedicated platforming games like mario, where all the elements are tailor made to make platforming as interesting as it can be. Or actual puzzle games that actually make you think unlike dmc3s puzzles. So its not that crazy to prefer them not being there, in an action game of all things. The action game genre roots back to arcade beat em ups, which were also just combat encounter after combat encounter and those were really awesome games too because their combat systems are excellent.
But like you said variety can be spice of life. As long all the elements come together i dont think anyone would be against it. But removing them and just having pure combat, in an action game, is also valid.
Fun video otherwise.
Can you make a video on Spider-Man 2 PS2 combat?
I'm surprised that you didn't cover the Quicksilver and Doppelganger styles, nor how if you plug a second controller when using Doppelganger or teaming up with Virgil, a second player can control them.
This could just be me but those 2 always felt more like neat ideas but not something you'll use as a main option. So truthfully I haven't used em much but ooooh man I'm sure I'm missing out. N the vergil 2P seems like common knowledge these days but now that I think about it I could've tossed in a quick line about it juuuust in case
Not long enough, needs more water.
This is indeed one whopper of a video and then some. There's a lot i can react to, but what sticks with me the most is the point you make on things like juggles and how the Style Meter is in your eyes so integral to the way the entire combat system works, and that there are more avenues to explore combat-heavy action games' depth and enjoyability beyond putting them in a vulnerability state, such as with the Dullahans.
Enemies are indeed really, really important. A tango or a waltz aren't danced in your lonesome and if you have a competent partner, you want to be competent to match their steps and perhaps even take it to the next level. I hope that's a good comparison to make.
I've often heard of how bad the bloodgoyles and chess pieces were, but despite never having played DMC3, they never struck me as outright bad in concept.
Wouldn't mind seeing more chess-based creature designs in the future. Especially since i've learnt that there are different variations of chess with pieces such as elephants and camels.
(I once tried designing some chess creatures with stylings not unlike those of the Tainted Coil from Brütal Legend, but they're alright folks. Thing was that the Black King and the White Queen kept trying to outdo each other on and on and on because they couldn't stand the other one winning. The normal pieces just wanted to *stop fighting* and finally do their own things again, but due to the rules of the board they kept being pulled back into the game, sometimes for days on end.
There's a good ending to it, though. Some other folks come in and play real fast-pace chess and because they're the winners, it's their right to challenge the other again. But they're friends, so they don't do that, and thusly the Black King and White Queen can't command the other pieces to fight for them again.
Tangent over)
I'm very curious now what you will think of Soulstice when the opportunity for that may arise. Preferably after the DMC series is done for reasons of how much inspiration it takes from these games (seemingly mainly 5 and the reboot) as well as Bayonetta. Reason why i say that is because most if not all enemies have a form of stagger state, but to reach that you have to first fill up a kind of stun bar.
Depending on the enemy, they can fall down and hit the floor thrice or twice to launch them again, but after that they'll have an invulnerability to being launched and thus their stun meter needs to be filled up again.
Meanwhile, bosses operate in a way that i'd almost describee like a 3D platformer. You can pretty much always hit them which builds up the Style Meter/Rapture Meter hybrid (basically a Devil Trigger), but they have a shield bar. When this shield bar is depleted you have a set amount of time to deal as much damage to the health bar as you can before the full shield meter restores itself again.
There is a beastiary to read up on stuff, and it'll tell you that there's some enemies that influence one another, like boosting damage/aggression of a particular enemy type. Or casting a shield over them-- or most interestingly, connect themselves to another enemy which makes them invulnerable until you have defeated that enemy.
Anyway, there was some things that i think you missed out on like the other two Jester confrontations when he brings up the moon face and assumed you'd go over every single weapon move, but i realize that that is really a *lot* to go through. This video of yours is already a very in-depth look at all fronts of the combat and I enjoy returning to videos to look through the comment sections too. There's always something we may miss but instead of confronting or getting angry or indignant to the maker of a video over it, it's much nicer to have it be an opportunity to just further share knowledge from a point of view of "Yo, here's this cool thing as well" instead of an "uhm ackshually" attitude.
Thank you very much for making this video. if you're not planning on making a peak of Combat video, which i'm personally not very interested in, you're about halfway through the DMC series. And you've got your work cut out for you on all of them.
Good luck, take care, wish you well and may your month be good.
Sidenote: If you're ever looking for footage of movesets from different (character) action games and button inputs, have a look at this channel.
He's done movesets on the likes of the Gungrave games, Marlow Briggs and the Mask of Death, both Castlevania: Lords of Shadows games and the PS2 3D Castlevania ones, the Darksiders games, Onimusha, etc.
He does good work with recording the movesets. It's a very niche thing to make videos about but i appreciate it a lot.
www.youtube.com/@TheBanbanGames/videos
Second sidenote: Don't know if i've talked about Kya: Dark Lineage and cookie Cutter with you, or the Maximo games, but those are worth putting on your list.
So far the longest video besides the tier ranking, just goes to show you how much depth is in this game. I love this game it’s one of my favorite games of all time right behind dmc 5, the only problem I have with the game is that they added way to many gimmick enemies, I’m fine if there’s unlaunchable enemy or one that you can only hit from the back, but the problem is that this game throws way to many, if they were used more sparingly I wouldn’t mind nearly as much.
Only time to really use drive is to charge it while doing free ride, even then I pretty much never use it.
12:12 sekro lol
2nd best dmc imo
What's your number 1 pick? Mine is still DMC1 - just too classic
Are you gonna look over DMC: Devil May Cry? I never thought that game was as bad as fans made it out to be.
What do you think if Capcom made a 2D side scrolling metroidvania style Devil May Cry game?
Is a good idea, but how?
There's a game called - demoniaca
I haven't played it myself but it has that Look n fighting game inspired combat. Even a large movelist to unlock from what I saw. Heard it's rough around the edges but something like can be how a dmc metroidvania would turn out. But yea I think the idea could work if given the time
Closest to such a thing that i can think of would be the Dishwasher games by Ska Studios. o_uwu_o did make a video on that one.
I guess The Dishwasher: Vampire Smile was more along the lines of Ninja Gaidne than DMC based on its speed and Izuna Drop equivalent.
I dont even push combos much in these games.
I mainly go to master parry qnd counter mechanics
Mixed with some effective combos.
To me playing jus to do combos is kinda lame tbh
Soul Eaters, Dullahans, and Fallen are terrible enemies because they break the concept of the style meter. It's incredibly difficult and way too time consuming to attempt to achieve an S rank against these foes.