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@@paweljuraszek1103 Agree. He wants to interpret the Bible both ways, as metaphorical and also as a cohesive text. The people who created the first books of The Bible had no idea what the later books would say. It is not at all like a book written by one person. And the people who wrote the later books contradicted the earlier ones. Sometimes intentional. The Bible should not be seen as one book. It is a library of a civilization. It contains folklore, history theology, literature, philosophy law, poetry, and even erotica. And it feels no obligation to be constant. You would not expect all the books in a library to be consistent, would you? Of course, they are going to contradict each other. Is there stuff of value in it? Absolutely. But can you take every word of it to be true? No. And that is why everybody who claims to do so has to cherry-pick parts of it that conform to their particular point of view.
Dismantling the ignorance of man. When we read challenging passages like Deuteronomy 20:10-18, which outline harsh instructions for warfare, it’s important to distinguish between divine inspiration and human responsibility. These actions, carried out by Moses and the Israelites, were shaped by their interpretation of divine principles within their historical and cultural context. Central to this understanding is the concept of free will-humans have the ability to make their own choices, and while divine principles may guide those choices, the ultimate responsibility lies with individuals. Moses, as a leader, made decisions about implementing commands in ways influenced by the norms and harsh realities of his time. Human understanding of divine will and morality evolves, and what seemed acceptable in ancient times may be viewed differently today. Recognizing this progression helps us critically engage with such texts, emphasizing that these actions were human decisions, not direct mandates from God. Some theologians argue that Scripture reflects a progressive revelation of God’s will, where earlier, more brutal practices gradually give way to principles of compassion and justice. By acknowledging this distinction between divine inspiration and human interpretation, we see that humanity, not God, bears responsibility for its choices, shaped by its evolving understanding of morality and ethics. You and everyone else is lost due to those that are lost and their lost teachings...
@@Teethtoe1986 Their arguments are based on an assumption that "God" had anything to do with the actions stated within a man made book even if inspired by "God". Man bares responsibility of all actions throughout history... So your statement is ignorant and irrelevant... Please try again
Here's the short-form translation of his complete religious apologetics (as I understand them): "I'm too depressed, and everybody else is too stupid, to function without a religious creed, and Christianity seems innocuous compared to Islam and the cult of the rainbow coalition, so to hell with integrity...I'm cutting me a slice of the Nazarene cheese."
Not so. I can mention many such men . . . and women. Take Mrs. Clinton for instance. Former speaker of the house Pelosi. And many many others much worse. Adolf Hitler etc etc etc.
Because at this time he’s still speaking as a nonbeliever trying to make an argument for the Bible. It’s a harder argument to make than Sam’s. It’s very hard and it requires weaves to a modern human because a modern human doesn’t have his understanding of his field or the view that he has. He has a better understanding of a view from the beginning of stories that most of us don’t have. I would expect your comment out of most people. Bishop Barron listens to JP and immediately gets it. That’s a Bishop that’s been studying most of his life. I understand what JP is saying but I have nowhere near the understanding that some do. But when you see it and get the lightbulbs going it’s hard to unsee or deny it.
You think it's easy and straightforward to honestly and truly discuss something that has been here for as long as we remember and has been influential more than anything we have seen yet?
@@shmoving1977 I do, yes. Be honest and say the bible is made up of stories that often have an archetypal meaning that fit in with other mythology, but they are stories. They are not revealed by some divinity, they are not the product of an all-loving, omnipotent being. Period. He likes to play both sides so as not to offend any possible followers, and it makes him incomprehensible.
@@shmoving1977 Yes, it is easy if you are discussing what the Bible says. But most people like Jordy don't want to discuss what the Bible SAYS, they want to discuss what they claim the Bible meant to say if you use their interpretation. That's how you end up with thousands of different sects of Christianity.
@@shmoving1977Yes. The Bible is not overly complex. The faith itself is almost mind-numbingly simple. So, yes, it's easy and straightforward to discuss honestly. Often the dumbest ideas have profound impact. Most often because the dumbest ideas can most easily reach the least of us.
Lol that's who JP is. I am not saying he's unintelligent, but he deflects until he knows how to combat rather than instantly being able to hit the target with precision the way a truly intelligent person can. It's possible he scored 150 on an IQ test as he claims, but that's higher than me and I feel I am quicker than this.
And JP just rambles until You are Lost…. Humans are Awful mostly. We rape and Murder each other for Nothing. Your Life has No Value other than to You. And if You call Yourself Christian and I Muslim are We enemies?? Religion is useful for controlling the Mobs of the weak followers. Its Ok to be a Follower sheep. To be a Leader and stand-up takes Strength and courage.
I imagine you would be okay to be taken away from your family, leaving them to starve and turning into a slave for the Israelites. And I have to imagine that you would thank God, telling him that that is your purpose in life, because there's a narrative that God has.
If you're a "follower" of either if these men, or any other internet performative "intellectual," you're no better than anyone else. You're worse off, in fact. Harris is a walking propaganda mouthpiece for Israel, so let's not pretend he's any better or has any moral superiority.
Because most people like a balance and don't jump to conclusions. These kinds of videos invite hubris for people with no expectations. So it further radicalizes them into tribal thinking.
And I would have laughed out loud when Sam Harris said he said, "I believe in truthful speech", this coming from a guy who takes something Jesus Christ said, when Jesus was literally telling a parable about how NOT to behave, and attributes it to Jesus as if he's telling his followers to do the very thing he was using the parable to warn them about. Sam Harris isn't just a liar, he's fully devolved into an anti-religious zealot, a bigot, and a political stooge who thought Donald Trump was an 'existential threat' to liberalism, and proudly proclaimed that no matter what the means were, the ends of keeping Trump out of office justified them. He said that, and not in the way that he misrepresents Christ's stories to confuse people who haven't read the passages, he said it in that exact context, no stories, no parables. This is a guy who truly thinks that there's nothing you could do, that would be going too far, if it kept Trump out of office. He's consumed by hatred, and has nothing else to offer.
@@brentmantel141 You're claiming someone is a liar yet the entire jesus story is a lie. You literally believe a lie based on a book of lies. You can't recognize lies. You can't recognize liars.
@@brentmantel141 Everything he said about trump was true. See you lack the ability to determine truth. You blindly believe in jesus based on a book full of lies and contradictions. You blindly believe trump even though the man lied over 30k times while in office. you don't care about truth. You only care about pushing your fake religion on others.
why does one have to be dumb to want to try to make sense of him? i argue that dumb is one who is quick to make judgements on big topics without a scrutiny analysis
Oh, Peterson makes plenty of sense on some individual topics. I tend to appreciate his analytical way of approaching thosr. But then i get to some other stuff he says and it's just lunacy. Like all of the analytical honesty i like about some of his speeches just disappears.
The most verbally flatulent pseudo intellectual in existence. A man who presents himself as a scientist, an apostle of enlightenment who, in reality, frequently retreats into mysticism, relativity and obscurity.
How does JP even get a platform....Are the awfulness and the cruelties of the old testament the reason why the Israel and the political Jew is so geneocidal and criminal...maybe the Bible should be banned
@عبدالرحمنعبدالله-ز4م Well I can certainly understand his vocabulary. I have a PhD in English literature and have also studied linguistics to masters level. I am telling you, JP is no intellectual. I've heard him pontificate on climate change when in reality he was simply observing the weather. He's an ignorant fool just like Trump, that misogynist incels love because he makes them feel clever and powerful.
Jordan only knows how to word salad his way through a conversation. I have never once listened to this man, on just about any subject, and not walked away from it thinking: “he said a whole lot of nothing!” He’s got all the fancy words, and the first couple times you listen to him you’ll have to pause rewind and listen again. But once you really listen to Jordan you’ll realize it’s all gibberish. In this exchange he simultaneously said that the Bible was brutal and extreme, and not an appropriate conclusion for a rational society, AND that it was a perfect bedrock for a philosophical foundation in truth. For the purposes of this exchange he would’ve been more rational in saying that the Bible is a good foundation in that it tells us exactly what NOT to do to have a more rational society, and by understanding that, we can then be freed of it to then pursue more philosophical truths as a society.
Of course it was barbaric, it was was written by bronze age barbarians. The idea that it would be "loving" or "moral" is just silly. You have people who owned other people, men who owned their women, sex slavery, capitol punishment for minor crimes, and the promise of eternal torture for not even knowing what god to pray to.
There is 0 evidence it was written in the Bronze Age. There wasn't even an alphabet to write in until the Phoenician alphabet around 1050 bc. There is 0 evidence that anyone was aware of the text, laws (Torah), or even the characters such as Moses until the late 4th century at the earliest. In fact, we have lots of negative evidence showing that Israelites were widely behaving contrary to Torah, as if they weren't even aware it existed. We don't see evidence of practicing Torah until the 2nd century bc in the Hasmonean period. Given that, modern scholarship leans to a later writing of the texts, 500bc at the earliest, more strict interpretations lean to 300 bc onward.
@@toddfulton2280dude the new testament started in like 70 Ad The dead sea scrolls were dated 600th century bc . I don't say bc because I'm a Christian, I'm not a Christian. You should criticize something accurately. You look like the dishonest one . You also really rely too much on the influence of evidence. The influence of evidence is lacking, if the influence of evidence was global then there would be no religion, if it was significant and we were all empiricists and skeptics . The only value to skepticism is to battle the human weakness we all have "people are gullible" That would come from apple white Theorem. So why are you spouting off evidence as if you know , which you've shown you don't . You actually don't. The influence comes from art , new thinking, and writing . Skepticism doesn't tell us what is true or what is not true. Empiricism is a test or method. A better method is the scientific method . The importance which religion has and it's an actual value is it tells us who we are or whom we were. How we use to think. It may also tell us our need for divinity, which is why I'm a pantheist instead of an atheist. I'm making the conscious choice. Because it benefits me
@@toddfulton2280 First off, who says you need an alphabet to write? Sumerians were writing in 3000 BCE. The earliest known proto-alphabetic inscriptions are the Proto-Sinaitic script sporadically attested in the Sinai Peninsula and in Canaan in the late Middle and Late Bronze Age. The Late Bronze Age was from 1600 - 1200 BCE. The stories that were compiled and turned into the Torah were written in the Late Bronze Age, and finalized in cannon in 400 BCE. The stories were already in writing long before that.
@@otthoheldring I didn't know he said that. Still there's no doubt Bill knew what 'is' is. If we must make political comparisons, though, JP is more like Trump - whos equally incomprehensible rantings he tries to pretend make sense - and fancies himself as a 'very stable genius'. He once claimed - unbelievably and with a straight face - that he's both an evolutionary biologist and a neuroscientist. He is neither, of course, but in the political sphere only one individual has exhibited such blatant delusions of grandeur and narcicistic denial of reality, the self described 'self made man' who's father left him 400 mil he squandered with failed venture after failed venture when he would have been more successful if he just left the money to the stock market and didn't touch it at all; the only individual in history so bad at business he failed to make money running a casino; the man who disguised his voice, pretended he was a press agent and called magazines to claim Madonna was pursuing him romantically; the man who once suggested drinking bleach to cure Covid and is the club champion at every golf club he owns, and who JP himself has endorsed, his partner in gobbledygook whose delusions have baldly gone where no mans have before, The Daiper Don himself, Donald J Trump. Yes, Trump whose very name is too awsom to pass the lips of mortal humans and has to be farted
@-The-Darkside regardless of your opinion of Harris, Peterson always struggles when speaking to anyone with half a brain. Shit, even Rogan at one point showed Peterson his hypocrisy and stumped him with a reply, lol.
Imagine a world where in 4000 years, people have their heads so far up their asses that they can't appreciate the Harry Potter books for their lovely descriptions or the intrinsic moral values of the story. Worse, they'll use some kind of group discussion system to comment on the Harry Potter books, jockeying for acceptance in the eyes of their peers by mocking books that they clearly lack the wisdom to understand. Just because something is fiction, doesn't mean it isn't TRUE. A king once attempted to control and dominate his people. Eventually, the people grew angry and resentful, they stormed the King's castle, beat him and his family to death, and constructed a democracy instead. The end. See? While it's fictional, that story is TRUE because things like that haven't just happened, things like that have happened enough that when I tell that story, it resonates with people, I have cleverly connected with people, across time, by telling a story rather than drone endlessly on, listing historical facts. An almanac is a great way to look shit up, but it's not telling you the truth, just providing you a series of facts. There's no morality in it, no meaning, just data. Data isn't truth, data is an extremely limited description of a narrow set of characteristics. By design. All of the data around even a single instance, a single occurrence, a single object, is infinite. Infinite data simply isn't useful to anyone, you MUST limit it in order for it to become useful. The Bible is TRUE, not because it's a history textbook, but because it's NOT A HISTORY TEXTBOOK. Just by that feature alone, it's infinitely more true than a schoolbook can ever hope to be.
@brentmantel141 Jordan Peterson, is that you? Sounds like it is... Yes, a story about a king can be both fiction and true. But a story about a virgin giving birth, can only be fiction. Still a cool story though. Just like they will look at Harry Potter in the future - great stories, but obviously not true.
@ 1:03, the Russian author to whom Peterson so obliquely refers is Anton Chekov. Chekhov's rifle (Чеховское ружьё) is a principle that each element in a story must be necessary and that all irrelevant elements should be removed. If Peterson truly appreciated Chekov's principle, then he could save hours in his discourse.
@@joiedevie3901 if Peterson truly appreciated Chekhov's principle, having possibly been the most flagrant violator of said principle, you might think he'd use it on himself...
I like... Liked Jordan Peterson at one point. But he's turned into a tin foil hat wearing lunatic. His comments based on psychology (suicide, personality etc.) were insightful. But he's an absolute lunatic when it comes to religion and diet.
Yeah agree. The diet stuff has made me doubt his integrity. Seeing as he used to say he's no dietitian and now he speaks with such certainty on a subject he admits he knows nothing about. Since daily wire he's gone off the deep end it's a shame.
On religion he is a mess. But on diet he has found, like thousands of others, that plants trigger his autoimmune conditions. Read the Harvard carnivore study. It's common to put autoimmune conditions in remission within.
@@eazyrat - He does the same on climate change, muddling weather with climate in a way that reveals his utter ignorance of an extremely complex subject. He should not be given a free pass though: he's a dangerous individual because so many people believe he's clever/intellectual. A truly great intellectual/scientist will find a way to explain their subject to the audience before them instead of bamboozling them with intellectual sounding word salad.
@@honeychurchgipsy6 it certainly feels that way. It's worsened by the fact it's happened since he joined daily wire so it's like he consciously decided fuck it I'll just go all in with every right wing talking point. Such a fail.
I am not a fun of Harris, but he saw through JP and summarized his thoughts pretty well, JP with so many words simply insisted that bible is a really good source of morality, but JP was defeated by couple simple arguments from Harris, because it simply isn’t, bible is outdated as anything religious.
@@prostoname5338it’s incredible that Harris essentially gets JP to concede that you should be a christian for almost no reason other than out of practicality because it has some psychological value in a vacuum. I feel like not many JP fans would ever catch that. Much less the gymnastics you have to do to argue that our “a priori interpretive structures” are best described as creating a story? Harris responded very well to that.
@@JakeEatNowthis is one of the most discrete and possibly unintended burns on JP I’ve ever read. The fact you need to have spent a month in a cave meditating to sit and listen to him for a couple of hours is so funny to me
The only truth about the bible is that it exists. The same truth goes for the Quran or the ancient Hindu scriptures. The truth ends there. @@nfdslkfladhf
@@e.h.5680 There isn’t any evidence that he doesn’t believe what he’s saying and is just “making a living.” You have to pretend to have telepathic powers to think that he doesn’t believe what he’s saying. Send me a timestamp where he admits otherwise.
Absolutely. If they're unable to see that we could literally do that with any fiction book, then there's no point in talking to them. Wait till they find out that Sauron is building his forces for a return to bring Mordor to the Middle of Earth. It tells us right here in the works of Tolkien.
What if I prove that Jesus was a serial killer? I mean, according to the bible he "turned the other cheek", when someone insulted him with a slap. Yet if you read on to the end of the bible his ultimate plan was to come back at the head of an angelic army and murder not only the man that slapped him, but his entire family, and anyone else who refused to worship. If pretending not to be offended, then coming back later and killing the person over an insult isn't serial killer behavior, I don't know what is. Did I lose all credibility and your respect? I tried to convince you of something with the bible.
My point is that Christianity is an Iron Age blood sacrifice cult from the Middle East. It’s adherents like to believe it has worldwide significance but it does not. There were different gods down here in Polynesia and they are just as fabricated as those in the northern hemisphere.
He's the most inefficient speaker of English on earth. He has the most robust vocabulary of any person alive and still can't portray a single idea in a way that isn't perceived as babbling.
Not at all. For you it looks like an inconsistency but a Christian receiving a Bible the moment it was compiled by the council of Trent would not agree with you. They don’t view the Bible and I don’t view the Bible the same way a nonbeliever that was not brought up in the church sees the Bible. There is no way with a modern view you could see the Bible in the same way. Many things in the Bible wouldn’t make sense to you. And that’s understandable. But we have people like bishop Barron, Jonathan Pageau and Jordan Peterson providing more of that view of an original reader. The church fathers are important to read to make an argument against the Bible but, they make those inconsistencies viewed by some random schmo go away. These days even most Protestants don’t read the fathers or know the church history. Even theology students.
@@jamesmoose5089 It's ironic that I'm intelligent enough to easily follow every PhD that I've ever listened to with the single exception of Jordan Peterson. Even the PhDs who debate him don't seem to understand what he says. I guess Peterson is just too intelligent for most of humanity. Out of curiosity, what are your academic credentials?
Watching him struggle so hard to formulate coherent ideas is hilarious, not sure how people still see him as a meaningful intellectual. He is youtube cooking instructor and his only ingredients are word salads.
ikr? When he cant even express his own thoughts to simple questions you know it's a bullshitter. "i dont know how to phrase this to sound intellectual but also vague enough to never be wrong."
Imagine being so poorly educated that you think this psychology professor who has educated generations at Harvard and in Toronto is speaking "word salads". Maybe the topic is merely beyond you? Maybe it sounds like a word salad if you're unable to comprehend it?
But what do you mean by TH-cam? And what do you mean by cooking? What do you mean by word salad? Because those things have an extraordinary deeper meaning to the psychological construct of blaaa blaa bla, and it's like cmon man... you're not taking into consideration the biblical prophecy of youtube word salad. I'm a great thinker of the 21st century I am. Fire is a predator. Wibble.
He is the 'intellectual' equivalent of the 90 pound walking who purchases a muscle building machine advertised on the back of a comic book because he dreams of being able to kick sand in the face of the bully at the beach who stole his girl.
"I'm going to treat the bible both as inerrant fact, and metaphorical antiquated mythology so that I never offend anyone who might possibly hand over their hard-earned cash to me"
When you watch him you think he's just riffing but then you realize, to your horror, that Jordan Peterson has thought through all of these bizarro ideas.
Like Dawkins says, Peterson is drunk on symbols. He endlessly rides the merry go round of the Bible, becoming dizzy but refusing to get off for fear of experiencing the clarity of viewing things from an extra human perspective.
A myopic biped such as: Jordan, Rogan, Piers, etc shouldn't have a platform with millions follower. It's lead civilisation into choice autism, thus, Trump POTUSism.
JP uses language to obfuscate whereas SH uses language to illuminate. Point Harris. Side note: can you imagine JP on the witness stand? Attorney “just answer my question” JP “every word I know…………………”
Woosh. Is there ever enough oxygen for anybody else on a stage with Jordan Peterson? As much as I admire such relentless curiosity, if Jordan were more openly curious he would learn how to listen -- and a touch of humility might not hurt.
I wish he had just gone into literary criticism or something. He has the perfect brain for that. But discussing the bible and morality with that same brain, yikes.
it is on purpose and he is not the only one to do this sort of stuff - confuse the point AS MUCH as possible and sprinkle in easily observable half truths... it is manipulative.
Or a history in large part. Written as a history and confirmed more and more by archaeology. The whole thing about killing and war has to be seen in context. Has God changed His modus operandi? Certainly. From Christ onwards things change. It is no longer about protecting one nation against extinction by hostile nations. It is now about building God's initial idea of kingdom across all nations. Sadly we are failing and the final solution we are told will be to take the ultimate authority out of human hands. This will require a leader who is not corrupt. Ours is the choice. Do we believe humanity is able to solve its problems or do we accept Lordship of Christ. I would personally want the lordship of Christ because I don't think we can get there ourselves. Christians should be peacemakers and willing to give everything for others. Sadly we mostly fall short, but there have been movements throughout church history where this has worked for a while. Peterson is not a biblical scholar. He doesn't really do a good job. My favourite theologian is Heiser. Gary Habermas for resurrection evidence. NT Wright for bits and bobs.
More like a movie script for a movie that was eventually scrapped, and the script was handed to different writers over and over so they could try to fix the problems with the script.
What impressed me in reading the bible was the word KILL, KILL, KILL, repeated no less than a thousand times. An inspiration for types like Netanyahu ?
Chekhov, it was Chekhov who said the riffle must go off in the second or third chapter. However, he meant don’t just blabber in your writing. Peterson should take a hint.
And it was Chekov, yes, Chekov on Ceti Alpha V whom Khan said he remembered meeting in the past during his time on the Enterprise, though he had never actually met him before. Peterson’s supposedly advanced mind is equal to that of Khan’s genetically engineered one, impressive until one spends even a short amount of time with it and discovers the failing blob of dimensionally flat diarrhea machinery it actually is.
not second or third chapter, but second or third ACT. And that’s not what was meant. It means if you lay the groundwork for a plot point pay it off at the end.
there would have been several memorable hitch-slaps witnessed on that day, and they would have been edited into the montages of Hitchens at his very best. he would have called out Peterson's vapid world salad in the most direct and brutal way possible.
This is the only second discussion i’ve seen from “JP.” I’ve interpreted everything by what he meant by context. Your statement is actually very interesting. “I believe” that he’s implying that to understand why A leads to B is because Z explains A and B, so he wants people to understand. The bible does this all over its text. You don’t get an answer to certain things or an explanation until you get to a certain point. It’s like a murder mystery. You don’t understand motive and process until you get to a certain point. Science is the bases for Atheism but Science is linear. There’s no room from interpretation. You are either right or wrong or in other words either fact or fantasy. Humans do not think linear because experience is based on interpretation and perspective. He’s trying to get harris to see the contradiction in the logic not the facts. Mind you this is my opinion and I’m open to be wrong because i’m in search for the truth. Now some may jump to a primitive response but your comment suggests an intelligent and open debater. Thoughts?
@@profylebryon Sam Harris often says that even after a debate with JP he does not know what believes because he cannot call a spade a spade. He has to call it an "earth inverting implement". He is willfuly verbose. I understand what he is trying to do when he says the New Testament effectively changes the meaning of Old Testament atrocities. Which, fankly is bullshit. Jews don't believe in Jesus or the NewTestament so is the meaning different for them? Does the fact the Koran derives its legitimacy from both the Old and New Testaments ( while re-writing those 2 books to fit in with their world view) mean the New Testmant's meaning has changed?
@@profylebryon I was wondering why the Bible would need to be interpreted. SInce interpretation implies you will/may get different intepretations. Who decides which is the the correct interpretation. Should it not be crystal clear if the writing was inspired by God?
@@kathleenshaw932 So true, but this,video is rather old. Does anyone sane,watch JP himself anymore? People like Sam Harris, who know there's no sincere, adult reason to engage with JP, do so because it was simply lucrative. Its the same reason people like Piers Morgan, amongst others, give wastes of oxygen like Andrew Tate the time of day.
It's a desperate attempt to make himself appear dominant in discussion, almost like he's only here to school people on a well established theory, not discuss it.
Why would a god wanting you to follow his rules, not make the book as easy to read as possible, there should literally be no room for interpretation when reading it.. An all knowing god would know this..
I've asked this? many times. No clear answer. 'Works in mysterious ways' if the religious leaders still argue about meaning, doesn't that say something? Wouldn't a god make himself clear?
He wouldn't pass on a message via text at all because even the simplest statements & omissions can be interpreted six ways to Sunday considering billions of people are reading it. But I side with literalists as the most reasonable position. Those that argue for "sophisticated" theology and a priest class to explain to the commoner are blowing smoke up their own ass. As if one had to be a scholar or take the word of others to understand God's word. What we currently have is 000's of fractured denominations because the msg isn't clear. And with salvation on the line, it's only a stupid God or no God at all that allows that situation to persist.
@@dmc6262 - it is futile. As Harris states there is not such thing as free will. Everything is predetermined by biological, chemical, and gravitational events that already occurred. Those who believe in God cannot do otherwise. I cannot do otherwise than respond to your statement; and you cannot do otherwise than write what you wrote.
He NAILED it when he said "you happen to be born a hindu or born a muslim or born a jew who doesn't recognize jesus to be the messiah you are screwed for all eternity"
And this scheme was set up by an omnipitent loving god. So this god creates souls that he knows are not going to be successfull . He/She is makeing shoddy goods and has created a hell it torture these badly made souls for ever. Not logical at all
He's not stupid. He knows he loses his baseline current conspiracy/ neo-christian conservative grift would be gone overnight. Money and fame means more to JP. His actions speak louder than his words. Much like most of this movement. It's no diff than their pro-segregationist parents. They're simply repeating history. And Jordan is their Shepard. He has to live and die, possible face a creator with his actions. You can only run from yourself, for so long.
Any claiming that J.Peterson has any deeper value or insights beyond providing a safe-space for emotionally fragile, conservatist boys, will always be met by ridicule.
Interesting, given that Pascal wrote an entire book about the logical justification for believing in the Christian God over any other. I mean, it's compelling reading, even if it's got some central logical flaws. So I guess maybe it's not so surprising that he would also admonish the evils done by 'religious conviction.' I've recently been talking with a guy who is a Christian fundamentalist and he's the first to admit that a lot of bad stuff has been done in the name of Christianity, but his beliefs also qualify that those people were not 'real Christians.' In other words, his beliefs rely heavily on the No True Scotsman logical fallacy - that the evil that was done was *in spite* of the supposed faith of the perpetrators, and not a result of it. That kind of contortion of belief is one of the scariest aspects of it, and you can see that in Peterson here. Their entire worldview rests on their ability to make it all make sense to themselves, even if that sense would fall apart completely if they ever subjected it to honest scrutiny.
As a literary scholar, I can tell you that JP's words are just word salad nonsense. The reason why a fictional narrative's beginning (may) have the end within it, is because it has been deliberately constructed that way, by an author. Take a bildungsroman such as Dickens' Great Expectations as an example: even though the young Pip is speaking to us at the beginning of the novel, we are also hearing the present day/grown up Pip speaking; thus, the beginning is in some ways influenced by the end. But Peterson begins by saying that the Bible is a group of books that were edited and put together in a specific way, after the fact (thousands of years after the fact in the case of the earliest books' place in the modern Christian Bible.), to create a progressive narrative, and then adds in the nonsense about 'the end influencing the beginning'. He's literally admitting that the compilers of the modern Bible set out to create a narrative (which includes the prophecy of Jesus etc. etc.) that was not implied by the original books. Also note, like all good liars, JP can think on his feet: every time he says something that he realises might offend the Christians, or his incel bros., he employs a caveat (for example: it sounds like I'm saying the Bible is a fiction, but that's beside(s) sic., the point: is it?), or alters what he was going to say (sound like anyone? clue: the weave), so it makes no sense at all.
Peterson has completely mastered the art of “beating around the bush”! He says nothing of substance. I think he believes that he can impress his audience by using adept circumlocution with big words and lofty meaningless phrases! He is certainly a genius of bullshit! 😂😂
Yeah. But then he proceeds to make tons of such statements. On the other hand, anyone can make metaphysical statements. Anyone can philosophize and ponder. These are simply thoughts and don't require any education, supportive documents, or falsafiablilty... I guess like religions too. Which is why religious people flock to such titles.
And that is an apt summation for every "debate" that Peterson engages in. He obfuscates and gaslights with pseudo intellectual gibberish. It impresses only those who are unread and unfamiliar with logic, reasoning, and critical thinking.
Peterson would have more success talking to a wall and convince it of whatever nonsense he's blabbering about than to convince a person with competent thinking skills
@@TRUECRIMEADDICTTT but where did he smear him? Did sam make an argument how we can find meaning? No new atheist has been able to. You can see the nihilism in the comments here. I haven’t seen a single person arguing for JPs point fall to name calling. That’s the atheists main forms of argument. I’d say that’s JP making progress in the way he intended with the people that would listen to him.
@@razorsedge864 Atheists aren’t required to engage in debates. If someone claims that God or Jesus exists, they should provide proof or evidence. Without it, we simply don’t believe the claim-that’s what being an atheist means. The burden of proof lies with the person making the claim. If there’s no solid argument or evidence, then the belief remains unconvincing. Atheist aren't required to be dabate lords.
Why on earth would a god provide a guidebook for its illiterate minions that requires it to be read/heard in the context of the entire narrative to interpret it correctly? Why would it make the message so convoluted and easy to misunderstand? The whole premise of this argument is badly flawed.
That is so true, if there is a Creator that is all powerfull so he can do pretty much everything we can imagine and more.. and also wants to show himself to us in a way we can all understand him clearly and there is no separation, cant he just make one book of what he wants to say to us and just deliver copy to every nation on their respective language, plus he could make it of material that is unknown to us so we know this is not from our world...they also say he is all loving but what is more loving than having unity of all people on whole planet.
Jordan Peterson should be a politician. He already speaks like one. Never answers a question, and just talks in circles until you can't stand to listen to him anymore.
@@kayakMike1000 Its not though, its all made up. Its make believe. Doesn't matter if its the Bible, the Quran, The Havamal, Hopi prophesy, shinto legends, its all made up nonsense.
@@kayakMike1000 I recently turned 80 and I know now more than ever that "supernatural bullshit" is really just well... bullshit. I wish you enlightenment too, sonny boy.
The difference between the old and New Testament is god went to anger management classes and toned it down for the masses because the church knew it was the best way to separate its believers from their cash and their ability to exercise free will and new thoughts
JP and Dinesh want to frame the Bible as some piece of work when Christian’s view it as GODS Word without fallacies and contradictions. JP and Dinesh don’t understand how an actual Christian is interpreting the books they’re trying to defend in a secular way.
Yes 💯 I lived in the south for years and I’d be shocked if you found Peterson or dinesh boots on the ground going to a church there, worshiping the way they do or agreeing with anything they believed or talked about there. They’d be fish out of water, in person.
"That is why Christ was born at the darkest part of the year." This is an example of eisegesis which is making anything out of anything as opposed to exegesis which is a more scholarly form of bringing forward ideas from scriptures. If Shepherds were tending their sheep when Jesus was born - it was probably September at the latest. Later than that and sheep were brought inside into caves etc. Christians chose the date of Christmas because they could celebrate at the same time as the ancient Roman festival of the Saturnalian. Ex Bible College student here who knows Midrash bs when he hears it.
Not really, no. I mean, the guy stood up there with a straight face and spent twenty minutes making the case that Bible hermeneutics is fundamental to christianity. I can hear a billion people screaming in Catholic all the way from here.
His whole argument is metaphysical the study of reality beyond the physical. When he says stuff like this he's using a word that has a meaning, but he's not in agreement with the rest of the world what that meaning means. Here he says he's not qualified to make a metaphysical statement when that's all he does in his arguments. It's dishonest and I wonder why any philosopher would engage with a guy who does not know what his argument actually is.
10:40 Peterson really paints himself into a corner. Essentially Harris is pointing out that Peterson is playing so much mental gymnastics with the text that with that standard you could essentially get any text to mean anything you want. He's not wrong there. Now, it'd be one thing if Peterson argued that he's wrong. But he doesn't. Instead he fires back by saying "well you could do that with any set of facts too". And this is exactly the type of things why I don't take Peterson seriously. If that's the argument, he's basically making the exact argument he's always been deriding from post modernists: that there exists no fundamental truth. Peterson is just throwing his hands up like "yeah sure that's what I'm doing. I'm overly interpreting things way beyond the content of the book but so what, we all do that." And it follows then that if that is really what Peterson believes, then there would be no reason for him to focus on religious scriptures in particular. Or on the Bible. There is nothing special about these books since he could just as well word salad his way to some meaning from any and all material anyway.
Jordan is one of those people who can speak for hours without saying anything. I tried watching some of his lectures, he literally mumbled very passionately about complete nonsense
That's the thing. When you're educated enough to understand all the words he uses, you realize this. Less educated people assume there must be something smart being said since he's using so many words they don't understand.
well it depends what you mean by time, when you asked the question it was 11:37 and 35 seconds, but now I'm answering it's 11:39 and 22 seconds. So metaphysically which was the correct time. Well it's now neither because the time is actually 11:41 and 15 seconds. So you see how the concept of time changes as the discussion advances. So again what do you mean by what time is it.
@@theslugboiii5969 Yes, and if i got an hour long answer then the time would be different at the beginning of the answer as opposed to the end of he answer.
As a catholic I was brought up to believe that it is a sin to eat fish on a Friday…especially Good Friday. The Vatican then changed its position on this and said it’s now okay to eat fish on a Friday. Does this mean that everyone who is burning in Hell for eating fish on a Friday have been exonerated 🤔?
I went to church and bible class as a kid...for some reason...it never struck me as a truth. At around 12..it was obvious Noah's Ark was a fantastical story...there was never a global flood..and it is impossible to put all animals in a boat. Later as I traveled the Middle East and Iran and read more about other ...and saw other religions...including Zorastianism...it seemed clear that Chrisitanity is a derivative religion. The fact a Roman emperor set up a committee to decide which texts became part of Bible...made it when harder to believe it was the literal word of God. I read a few of Ron Hubbard's sci-fi books (which are entertaining but not good scinfi) at around 14...Later in life I discovered he set up his own religion. I think he did this as the ultimate Exhibit A that people will literally believe anything as a religion. Hard to argue with him when it has thousands of followers. A further influence was time with my grandfather. I remember when Mormans and Jehavah witnesses came knocking...he would kindly accept a copy of their book...and invite them back the next week by which time he had read it. Over a cup of teq he would read out passages and say "do you believe this"...they would answer " yes sir"...he would look them in the eyes...pause.. then say "amazing".
He was a smart man who retired too early...so needed intellectual stimulus ( he taught me algebra.amd science...saved my education). There is a twist...which was our last conversation before he passed away at 101.
@richardcooper9167 The last day I saw him we had a long philosophical discussion. I thanked him for all he had done for me....and said he had made a real difference in my life. I had to go back overseas and we knew this would be the last time we spoke. We talked about global warming (he said it was certainly not a problem he had to worry about)....mortality...and then the conversation took an unexpected turn. He asked me to close the door (he was in a manged care facility as he could not move well). He said what he had to tell me would sound unbelievable...and he had not spoken to anyone else about it. He said that recently....beings....people would appear in his room...he could only see them from the corner of his eye...there would be two or three talking amongst themselves and looking at him...if he tried to look at them directly they disappeared. They seemed to be interested in his room and even the plate of food that was near the wall on the serving trolley...he could not hear what they were saying..I asked him what they were wearing...I recall he said not usual clothes. He asked me if I thought he was going mad... as he was not religious at all. Based on the conversations we had just had...I said not at all. We discussed what it might mean....I said probably a sign you were to pass soon...but also a sign that there is someone waiting for you in whatever the next reality is. I told him about recent theories that consoicness occurs in a quantum realm, i.e., another dimension.....and maybe when the physical connection to this world ends ....we carry on. I asked him if my cousin had told him our grandmother...his wife...talked to her the day after she passed away....she asked my cousin to look after my grandfather....he had not heard that. I said we are both pretty logical thinkers...but you cannot just ignore what you saw or she heard...We spoke for a few hours then I had to go I said we willl see each other again in whatever world your visitors come from. 2 weeks later my son was born and he died the same day at 101.
@@ProximaCentairi24 thanks. Personally I doubt the existence of an afterlife and quantum consciousness sounds nonsensical, but I appreciate the synchronicity (can't think of a better word rn) of your grandfather passing and the birth of your son.
I have tried and tried to listen to Jordan, and have never yet heard him give an answer to anything. However I will persevere and who knows in the distant future, on distant planet in a distant galaxy, I. May get an answer to something, anything.
I attended a lecture by Peterson (used to be a fan) and when asked about atheism he said (among many things) that “if you’re an atheist, it means you’re probably not very educated.” I think he’s honestly bitter because of both of those debates 😂
Legitimately put effort into listening to conversation and you will understand every word that Is spoken. Notice how they all weren’t upset about having a discussion. Just pointing out their perspectives.
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I was about to say something what you just said. Bunch of “word salad” as people want to say.
@@paweljuraszek1103 Agree. He wants to interpret the Bible both ways, as metaphorical and also as a cohesive text.
The people who created the first books of The Bible had no idea what the later books would say. It is not at all like a book written by one person.
And the people who wrote the later books contradicted the earlier ones. Sometimes intentional.
The Bible should not be seen as one book. It is a library of a civilization. It contains folklore, history theology, literature, philosophy law, poetry, and even erotica. And it feels no obligation to be constant. You would not expect all the books in a library to be consistent, would you? Of course, they are going to contradict each other.
Is there stuff of value in it? Absolutely. But can you take every word of it to be true? No. And that is why everybody who claims to do so has to cherry-pick parts of it that conform to their particular point of view.
Dismantling the ignorance of man.
When we read challenging passages like Deuteronomy 20:10-18, which outline harsh instructions for warfare, it’s important to distinguish between divine inspiration and human responsibility. These actions, carried out by Moses and the Israelites, were shaped by their interpretation of divine principles within their historical and cultural context. Central to this understanding is the concept of free will-humans have the ability to make their own choices, and while divine principles may guide those choices, the ultimate responsibility lies with individuals. Moses, as a leader, made decisions about implementing commands in ways influenced by the norms and harsh realities of his time. Human understanding of divine will and morality evolves, and what seemed acceptable in ancient times may be viewed differently today. Recognizing this progression helps us critically engage with such texts, emphasizing that these actions were human decisions, not direct mandates from God. Some theologians argue that Scripture reflects a progressive revelation of God’s will, where earlier, more brutal practices gradually give way to principles of compassion and justice. By acknowledging this distinction between divine inspiration and human interpretation, we see that humanity, not God, bears responsibility for its choices, shaped by its evolving understanding of morality and ethics. You and everyone else is lost due to those that are lost and their lost teachings...
How about antiscience of allah or the Indian god? Hahaha... You are so full of bible. You are pathetic with Sam Harris.
@@Teethtoe1986 Their arguments are based on an assumption that "God" had anything to do with the actions stated within a man made book even if inspired by "God". Man bares responsibility of all actions throughout history... So your statement is ignorant and irrelevant... Please try again
Jordan Peterson, Never has a man used so Many words to say so little.
Here's the short-form translation of his complete religious apologetics (as I understand them):
"I'm too depressed, and everybody else is too stupid, to function without a religious creed, and Christianity seems innocuous compared to Islam and the cult of the rainbow coalition, so to hell with integrity...I'm cutting me a slice of the Nazarene cheese."
Not so. I can mention many such men . . . and women. Take Mrs. Clinton for instance. Former speaker of the house Pelosi. And many many others much worse. Adolf Hitler etc etc etc.
@@piehound You just can't help yourself, can you.
Because at this time he’s still speaking as a nonbeliever trying to make an argument for the Bible. It’s a harder argument to make than Sam’s. It’s very hard and it requires weaves to a modern human because a modern human doesn’t have his understanding of his field or the view that he has. He has a better understanding of a view from the beginning of stories that most of us don’t have. I would expect your comment out of most people. Bishop Barron listens to JP and immediately gets it. That’s a Bishop that’s been studying most of his life. I understand what JP is saying but I have nowhere near the understanding that some do. But when you see it and get the lightbulbs going it’s hard to unsee or deny it.
@@razorsedge864That was a Peterson-esque reply
At least Jesus could get to the fucking point 🙄
😅😅😅😅😅😅
“In case you think that I'm weaseling around”
I am .
Jordan Peterson
All 3 of them.
Brilliant. 🤣
😂😂😂
3:35 Sam Harris says to JP: "You're making this harder than it is." Bingo! That applies to nearly every topic JP discusses.
You think it's easy and straightforward to honestly and truly discuss something that has been here for as long as we remember and has been influential more than anything we have seen yet?
@@shmoving1977 I do, yes. Be honest and say the bible is made up of stories that often have an archetypal meaning that fit in with other mythology, but they are stories. They are not revealed by some divinity, they are not the product of an all-loving, omnipotent being. Period.
He likes to play both sides so as not to offend any possible followers, and it makes him incomprehensible.
@@shmoving1977 Yes, it is easy if you are discussing what the Bible says. But most people like Jordy don't want to discuss what the Bible SAYS, they want to discuss what they claim the Bible meant to say if you use their interpretation.
That's how you end up with thousands of different sects of Christianity.
@@shmoving1977Yes. The Bible is not overly complex. The faith itself is almost mind-numbingly simple. So, yes, it's easy and straightforward to discuss honestly. Often the dumbest ideas have profound impact. Most often because the dumbest ideas can most easily reach the least of us.
Lol that's who JP is. I am not saying he's unintelligent, but he deflects until he knows how to combat rather than instantly being able to hit the target with precision the way a truly intelligent person can. It's possible he scored 150 on an IQ test as he claims, but that's higher than me and I feel I am quicker than this.
Listening to Peterson is excruciating, and his “insanely sophisticated idea” is subterfuge to an admission of being full of shit.
Peterson is just a charlatan
What is so “full of shit” about anything he says? Genuinely what’s the critique?
Why is FOS. Well
Thinking God Cares about Humans or You. Is really Silly.
And JP just rambles until You are Lost…. Humans are Awful mostly. We rape and Murder each other for Nothing. Your Life has No Value other than to You. And if You call Yourself Christian and I Muslim are We enemies?? Religion is useful for controlling the Mobs of the weak followers. Its Ok to be a Follower sheep. To be a Leader and stand-up takes Strength and courage.
I imagine you would be okay to be taken away from your family, leaving them to starve and turning into a slave for the Israelites.
And I have to imagine that you would thank God, telling him that that is your purpose in life, because there's a narrative that God has.
JP’s biggest advantage is that the overwhelming majority of his followers aren’t intelligent enough to see through the nonsense.
Exactly this.
If you're a "follower" of either if these men, or any other internet performative "intellectual," you're no better than anyone else. You're worse off, in fact. Harris is a walking propaganda mouthpiece for Israel, so let's not pretend he's any better or has any moral superiority.
He used to be better
@@sp4nrs yes when we were all dumbasses 🤣
that's all cult leaders
why is JORDAN PETERSON taken seriously?
He's not.
Because most people like a balance and don't jump to conclusions. These kinds of videos invite hubris for people with no expectations. So it further radicalizes them into tribal thinking.
@vladimirofsvalbard9477
I always say that most of humanity still has one foot stuck in the cave of perception.
@@razony I've said something similar for decades: Mankind is but a few steps away from our caves.
Because he says things that his acolytes do not understand, so they must be profound...
when Jordan Peterson said "I will try to be succinct" I laughed out loud
And I would have laughed out loud when Sam Harris said he said, "I believe in truthful speech", this coming from a guy who takes something Jesus Christ said, when Jesus was literally telling a parable about how NOT to behave, and attributes it to Jesus as if he's telling his followers to do the very thing he was using the parable to warn them about.
Sam Harris isn't just a liar, he's fully devolved into an anti-religious zealot, a bigot, and a political stooge who thought Donald Trump was an 'existential threat' to liberalism, and proudly proclaimed that no matter what the means were, the ends of keeping Trump out of office justified them. He said that, and not in the way that he misrepresents Christ's stories to confuse people who haven't read the passages, he said it in that exact context, no stories, no parables. This is a guy who truly thinks that there's nothing you could do, that would be going too far, if it kept Trump out of office.
He's consumed by hatred, and has nothing else to offer.
@@brentmantel141 You're claiming someone is a liar yet the entire jesus story is a lie. You literally believe a lie based on a book of lies. You can't recognize lies. You can't recognize liars.
@@brentmantel141 Everything he said about trump was true. See you lack the ability to determine truth. You blindly believe in jesus based on a book full of lies and contradictions. You blindly believe trump even though the man lied over 30k times while in office. you don't care about truth. You only care about pushing your fake religion on others.
@ brentmantel141 Triggered much by rational thought?😂
@@brentmantel141 Can you cite the actual verses that give us this context?
I feel sorry for anybody dumb enough to waste their time trying to make any sense of Jordan Peterson.
why does one have to be dumb to want to try to make sense of him? i argue that dumb is one who is quick to make judgements on big topics without a scrutiny analysis
i wouldn't attempt to tho, such a mess
@@delveticas I understood just fine. They all were coherent.
The more confused they feel after listening to JP, the more they think he is making good points.
Oh, Peterson makes plenty of sense on some individual topics. I tend to appreciate his analytical way of approaching thosr.
But then i get to some other stuff he says and it's just lunacy. Like all of the analytical honesty i like about some of his speeches just disappears.
The most verbally flatulent pseudo intellectual in existence. A man who presents himself as a scientist, an apostle of enlightenment who, in reality, frequently retreats into mysticism, relativity and obscurity.
How does JP even get a platform....Are the awfulness and the cruelties of the old testament the reason why the Israel and the political Jew is so geneocidal and criminal...maybe the Bible should be banned
@عبدالرحمنعبدالله-ز4م its more like you cant comprehend his vocabulary, so you immediately assume he is saying something smart
@عبدالرحمنعبدالله-ز4م Well I can certainly understand his vocabulary. I have a PhD in English literature and have also studied linguistics to masters level. I am telling you, JP is no intellectual. I've heard him pontificate on climate change when in reality he was simply observing the weather. He's an ignorant fool just like Trump, that misogynist incels love because he makes them feel clever and powerful.
@عبدالرحمنعبدالله-ز4م Peterson refuses to even define true. He says fictional stories are true because they contain moral lessons. He’s an ass.
William Layne Craig ... same blathering.
I get so frustrated when Sam makes an incredible point then Jordan IMMEDIATELY starts an entire course/rabbit hole on word salading 101
That's how you know it's a good point, he can't just respond hahahah
Brevity is the soul of wit. Clearly the man is witless.
Just deflect and distract. That’s used by the corrupt and incompetent because they got nothing else
Even he doesn't know the point he's trying to make.
Jordan only knows how to word salad his way through a conversation. I have never once listened to this man, on just about any subject, and not walked away from it thinking: “he said a whole lot of nothing!” He’s got all the fancy words, and the first couple times you listen to him you’ll have to pause rewind and listen again. But once you really listen to Jordan you’ll realize it’s all gibberish.
In this exchange he simultaneously said that the Bible was brutal and extreme, and not an appropriate conclusion for a rational society, AND that it was a perfect bedrock for a philosophical foundation in truth.
For the purposes of this exchange he would’ve been more rational in saying that the Bible is a good foundation in that it tells us exactly what NOT to do to have a more rational society, and by understanding that, we can then be freed of it to then pursue more philosophical truths as a society.
Of course it was barbaric, it was was written by bronze age barbarians. The idea that it would be "loving" or "moral" is just silly. You have people who owned other people, men who owned their women, sex slavery, capitol punishment for minor crimes, and the promise of eternal torture for not even knowing what god to pray to.
But you cant throw the baby out with the bathwater says peterson. Thing is its all bathwater and the baby has been removed , dried and fine elsewhere.
There is 0 evidence it was written in the Bronze Age. There wasn't even an alphabet to write in until the Phoenician alphabet around 1050 bc.
There is 0 evidence that anyone was aware of the text, laws (Torah), or even the characters such as Moses until the late 4th century at the earliest. In fact, we have lots of negative evidence showing that Israelites were widely behaving contrary to Torah, as if they weren't even aware it existed. We don't see evidence of practicing Torah until the 2nd century bc in the Hasmonean period.
Given that, modern scholarship leans to a later writing of the texts, 500bc at the earliest, more strict interpretations lean to 300 bc onward.
@@toddfulton2280dude the new testament started in like 70 Ad
The dead sea scrolls were dated 600th century bc .
I don't say bc because I'm a Christian, I'm not a Christian.
You should criticize something accurately.
You look like the dishonest one .
You also really rely too much on the influence of evidence.
The influence of evidence is lacking, if the influence of evidence was global then there would be no religion, if it was significant and we were all empiricists and skeptics .
The only value to skepticism is to battle the human weakness we all have "people are gullible"
That would come from apple white Theorem.
So why are you spouting off evidence as if you know , which you've shown you don't .
You actually don't. The influence comes from art , new thinking, and writing .
Skepticism doesn't tell us what is true or what is not true. Empiricism is a test or method. A better method is the scientific method .
The importance which religion has and it's an actual value is it tells us who we are or whom we were.
How we use to think.
It may also tell us our need for divinity, which is why I'm a pantheist instead of an atheist.
I'm making the conscious choice. Because it benefits me
@@toddfulton2280 First off, who says you need an alphabet to write? Sumerians were writing in 3000 BCE. The earliest known proto-alphabetic inscriptions are the Proto-Sinaitic script sporadically attested in the Sinai Peninsula and in Canaan in the late Middle and Late Bronze Age. The Late Bronze Age was from 1600 - 1200 BCE. The stories that were compiled and turned into the Torah were written in the Late Bronze Age, and finalized in cannon in 400 BCE. The stories were already in writing long before that.
@@redmed10 I guess in this instance we are talking about the baby Jebus. If there were any evidence for such a baby, I would might consider saving it.
Peterson can't risk alienating his religious fan boys. Gotta keep grifting.
Jordan Peterson: "just one more thing"
*_12 HOURS LATER_*
Jordan Peterson: "so that gets back to my previous point about..."
The Lt. Columbo of BS.
😂😅
yes, but what is a 'point'? What is 'previous'? What, for that matter, is 'that'?
@dragosapina5692 And, as Bill Clinton said: What is "is"?
@@otthoheldring I didn't know he said that. Still there's no doubt Bill knew what 'is' is. If we must make political comparisons, though, JP is more like Trump - whos equally incomprehensible rantings he tries to pretend make sense - and fancies himself as a 'very stable genius'. He once claimed - unbelievably and with a straight face - that he's both an evolutionary biologist and a neuroscientist. He is neither, of course, but in the political sphere only one individual has exhibited such blatant delusions of grandeur and narcicistic denial of reality, the self described 'self made man' who's father left him 400 mil he squandered with failed venture after failed venture when he would have been more successful if he just left the money to the stock market and didn't touch it at all; the only individual in history so bad at business he failed to make money running a casino; the man who disguised his voice, pretended he was a press agent and called magazines to claim Madonna was pursuing him romantically; the man who once suggested drinking bleach to cure Covid and is the club champion at every golf club he owns, and who JP himself has endorsed, his partner in gobbledygook whose delusions have baldly gone where no mans have before, The Daiper Don himself, Donald J Trump. Yes, Trump whose very name is too awsom to pass the lips of mortal humans and has to be farted
Peterson thinks he is so much smarter than he actually is.
Been saying this for years.
His expertise are in one field but he acts like an expert in all fields.
Sam Harris is much the same tbh.
TBH he is a very smart man.
do i agree with him... nope
buit he is vary smart..
@-The-Darkside regardless of your opinion of Harris, Peterson always struggles when speaking to anyone with half a brain. Shit, even Rogan at one point showed Peterson his hypocrisy and stumped him with a reply, lol.
It must take some one extremely intelligent to point this out! You must be sooooo smart! You probably even think your smart! Wow!
Yup, him and the mouthpiece Shapiro.
Imagine a debate in the year 4000, about how one should interpret the Harry Potter books
The crazy part is, if we are still around in 4000 years, and Christianity survives, they will still be saying “Jesus is coming back soon!”
Imagine a world where in 4000 years, people have their heads so far up their asses that they can't appreciate the Harry Potter books for their lovely descriptions or the intrinsic moral values of the story.
Worse, they'll use some kind of group discussion system to comment on the Harry Potter books, jockeying for acceptance in the eyes of their peers by mocking books that they clearly lack the wisdom to understand.
Just because something is fiction, doesn't mean it isn't TRUE.
A king once attempted to control and dominate his people. Eventually, the people grew angry and resentful, they stormed the King's castle, beat him and his family to death, and constructed a democracy instead. The end.
See? While it's fictional, that story is TRUE because things like that haven't just happened, things like that have happened enough that when I tell that story, it resonates with people, I have cleverly connected with people, across time, by telling a story rather than drone endlessly on, listing historical facts. An almanac is a great way to look shit up, but it's not telling you the truth, just providing you a series of facts. There's no morality in it, no meaning, just data. Data isn't truth, data is an extremely limited description of a narrow set of characteristics. By design. All of the data around even a single instance, a single occurrence, a single object, is infinite. Infinite data simply isn't useful to anyone, you MUST limit it in order for it to become useful.
The Bible is TRUE, not because it's a history textbook, but because it's NOT A HISTORY TEXTBOOK. Just by that feature alone, it's infinitely more true than a schoolbook can ever hope to be.
@brentmantel141 Jordan Peterson, is that you? Sounds like it is... Yes, a story about a king can be both fiction and true. But a story about a virgin giving birth, can only be fiction. Still a cool story though. Just like they will look at Harry Potter in the future - great stories, but obviously not true.
@@brentmantel141Putting truth in all caps doesn't make it any less subjective
@@danbach9305I think you completely missed the point of that comment.
@ 1:03, the Russian author to whom Peterson so obliquely refers is Anton Chekov. Chekhov's rifle (Чеховское ружьё) is a principle that each element in a story must be necessary and that all irrelevant elements should be removed. If Peterson truly appreciated Chekov's principle, then he could save hours in his discourse.
Nailed it!☝🏻☝🏻☝🏻
@@joiedevie3901 if Peterson truly appreciated Chekhov's principle, having possibly been the most flagrant violator of said principle, you might think he'd use it on himself...
@@barbiedahl Indeed.
I like... Liked Jordan Peterson at one point. But he's turned into a tin foil hat wearing lunatic. His comments based on psychology (suicide, personality etc.) were insightful. But he's an absolute lunatic when it comes to religion and diet.
Yeah agree. The diet stuff has made me doubt his integrity. Seeing as he used to say he's no dietitian and now he speaks with such certainty on a subject he admits he knows nothing about. Since daily wire he's gone off the deep end it's a shame.
And while you turned away, many others continued to follow. There are many paths to the alt-right being presented these days. Jordan is but one.
On religion he is a mess. But on diet he has found, like thousands of others, that plants trigger his autoimmune conditions.
Read the Harvard carnivore study. It's common to put autoimmune conditions in remission within.
@@eazyrat - He does the same on climate change, muddling weather with climate in a way that reveals his utter ignorance of an extremely complex subject. He should not be given a free pass though: he's a dangerous individual because so many people believe he's clever/intellectual. A truly great intellectual/scientist will find a way to explain their subject to the audience before them instead of bamboozling them with intellectual sounding word salad.
@@honeychurchgipsy6 it certainly feels that way. It's worsened by the fact it's happened since he joined daily wire so it's like he consciously decided fuck it I'll just go all in with every right wing talking point. Such a fail.
Albert Einstein once said if you can't explain a theory to a child it's probably useless,well I'm an adult and i haven't a clue what he's saying 🤣
I am not a fun of Harris, but he saw through JP and summarized his thoughts pretty well, JP with so many words simply insisted that bible is a really good source of morality, but JP was defeated by couple simple arguments from Harris, because it simply isn’t, bible is outdated as anything religious.
he actually said if you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it. I use it all the time 😂😂😂
@@prostoname5338it’s incredible that Harris essentially gets JP to concede that you should be a christian for almost no reason other than out of practicality because it has some psychological value in a vacuum. I feel like not many JP fans would ever catch that. Much less the gymnastics you have to do to argue that our “a priori interpretive structures” are best described as creating a story? Harris responded very well to that.
Most people don't understand Einstein. We are trained to accept it
@@MrTsukuduEinstein might be great but he got that wrong. Its could be accurate within the scientific field but not in general.
I have to give it to Sam to sit there for hours and be able to listen to Peterson without loosing his calm.
it's cash profit for him, that's all he's there for. He knows Peterson is a clown
losing*
@@kiwidubzjajajaja
He is a dedicated meditation practitioner.
@@JakeEatNowthis is one of the most discrete and possibly unintended burns on JP I’ve ever read. The fact you need to have spent a month in a cave meditating to sit and listen to him for a couple of hours is so funny to me
“Don’t pay attention to the words in the Bible”
Smartest thing JP ever said.
Jordan Peterson is a long winded, pedantic, fool.
My kind of fool. Cleaning one's mental room is a never ending process. If you say yours is clean . . . then you haven't checked the darkest corners.
@@piehound😂
@@piehound --- He's the Deepak Chopra of western religion.
@@piehound Shut up...mental room.
@@ElMeroPrincipeX i'm so glad you're amused.
Without lies, religion dies.
bot
@williamyoung9401 Why is truth insulting you?
The only truth about the bible is that it exists. The same truth goes for the Quran or the ancient Hindu scriptures. The truth ends there. @@nfdslkfladhf
@@williamyoung9401 are you a bot? Or do you have low iq?
Babies are born atheist , religion needs to be taught by man not a invisible god
At this point, JP doesn't believe what he spews. He's now just making a living.
He himself doesn't know what he spews, let alone believe it
@@e.h.5680something that always sticks with me when listening to JP, the menu is not the meal.
It always astounds me how some people pretend to be telepathic.
@@jkm9332 It astounds me how some people don't believe the evidence right in front of their eyes
@@e.h.5680 There isn’t any evidence that he doesn’t believe what he’s saying and is just “making a living.” You have to pretend to have telepathic powers to think that he doesn’t believe what he’s saying. Send me a timestamp where he admits otherwise.
Anyone that tries to convince me of anything using the bible instantly loses all credibility and my respect.
God bless.
I mean, yes, with you 100%.
Absolutely. If they're unable to see that we could literally do that with any fiction book, then there's no point in talking to them. Wait till they find out that Sauron is building his forces for a return to bring Mordor to the Middle of Earth. It tells us right here in the works of Tolkien.
What if I prove that Jesus was a serial killer? I mean, according to the bible he "turned the other cheek", when someone insulted him with a slap. Yet if you read on to the end of the bible his ultimate plan was to come back at the head of an angelic army and murder not only the man that slapped him, but his entire family, and anyone else who refused to worship. If pretending not to be offended, then coming back later and killing the person over an insult isn't serial killer behavior, I don't know what is.
Did I lose all credibility and your respect? I tried to convince you of something with the bible.
Too bad your respect not worth a thing
I usually just quote Harry Potter back to people that quote the Bible to me. Just two fictional books coexisting with great quotes
“Christ is born at the darkest time of the year”????
Not in the hemisphere I am standing on!
Greetings from New Zealand.
In Jerusalem and the surrounding area it is very cold in December, which is what is relevant to the comment.
My point is that Christianity is an Iron Age blood sacrifice cult from the Middle East. It’s adherents like to believe it has worldwide significance but it does not. There were different gods down here in Polynesia and they are just as fabricated as those in the northern hemisphere.
LOL! Thanks for pointing out "our" geographic centrism.
Peterson believes Jesus was born on Xmas day 😂
Hey there! Much love from your big brother! Aus❤
Sam Harris: Get to the point 👉
Peterson: ???
Indeed
You can't debate the master debater, and Sam Harris is definitely one of the best
I don't think JP has never seen a "'point" in his whole life
He's the most inefficient speaker of English on earth. He has the most robust vocabulary of any person alive and still can't portray a single idea in a way that isn't perceived as babbling.
Peterson "well, that depends on what you mean by the point!"
The problem is the Bible not a coherent narrative, its very incoherent. Its full of inconsistencies and contradictions.
and impossibilities
Not at all. For you it looks like an inconsistency but a Christian receiving a Bible the moment it was compiled by the council of Trent would not agree with you. They don’t view the Bible and I don’t view the Bible the same way a nonbeliever that was not brought up in the church sees the Bible. There is no way with a modern view you could see the Bible in the same way. Many things in the Bible wouldn’t make sense to you. And that’s understandable. But we have people like bishop Barron, Jonathan Pageau and Jordan Peterson providing more of that view of an original reader. The church fathers are important to read to make an argument against the Bible but, they make those inconsistencies viewed by some random schmo go away. These days even most Protestants don’t read the fathers or know the church history. Even theology students.
Consider the landscape of thinking in the times in which it was created. Context is everything.
What is not understood: The Bible is not there to "explain" anything - it conveys human experiences with God in various genres
@@razorsedge864 Where did I say that I was not brought up in the church?
I know Jordan Peterson thinks he's fucking brilliant, but everything he says sounds like a word salad.
@@BrianSheely he’s often strung out on benzos
That’s what it sounds like when you’re not intelligent enough to follow.
@@jamesmoose5089 It's ironic that I'm intelligent enough to easily follow every PhD that I've ever listened to with the single exception of Jordan Peterson. Even the PhDs who debate him don't seem to understand what he says. I guess Peterson is just too intelligent for most of humanity. Out of curiosity, what are your academic credentials?
Credentialism is another trait of the intellectually weak. You’re exposing yourself.
Peterson is the undisputed Word Salad Champion of the world. My god, this man talks SO MUCH without actually saying anything
Have you ever heard Deepak Chopra?
"But it's complicated, man, and it's not obvious to him".
There’s also the Ben Shapiro guy.
@@davidsheriff9274 but what about - but what about - but what about?
@@davidsheriff9274 dumb
Watching him struggle so hard to formulate coherent ideas is hilarious, not sure how people still see him as a meaningful intellectual. He is youtube cooking instructor and his only ingredients are word salads.
ikr? When he cant even express his own thoughts to simple questions you know it's a bullshitter.
"i dont know how to phrase this to sound intellectual but also vague enough to never be wrong."
Imagine being so poorly educated that you think this psychology professor who has educated generations at Harvard and in Toronto is speaking "word salads". Maybe the topic is merely beyond you? Maybe it sounds like a word salad if you're unable to comprehend it?
The conspiracy/psuedo Christian/ neo-fascismo grift pays damn well. World watch Boomers make absolute fools of themselves
But what do you mean by TH-cam? And what do you mean by cooking? What do you mean by word salad?
Because those things have an extraordinary deeper meaning to the psychological construct of blaaa blaa bla, and it's like cmon man... you're not taking into consideration the biblical prophecy of youtube word salad. I'm a great thinker of the 21st century I am. Fire is a predator. Wibble.
He reminds me very much of The Amazing Kreskin. Listening to him gives me the uneasy feeling I'm being manipulated.
Every time Jordan says, "that's a fact," check for your wallet.
that cracked me up....good one
I will never understand how anyone can find Peterson brilliant. He's great with providing elegant word salads.
He is brilliant at bullshiting. He’s still brilliant though. He has remarkable talent and abilities that you most probably don’t have
He is brilliant at putting me to sleep late at night!
It's called babbling
He is the 'intellectual' equivalent of the 90 pound walking who purchases a muscle building machine advertised on the back of a comic book because he dreams of being able to kick sand in the face of the bully at the beach who stole his girl.
Seriously WTF is he talking about. What is he ever talking about?
Himself.
It’s just gibberish. Plain and simple.
He's speaking in tongues, he and kenneth copeland have great convos together!
"I'm going to treat the bible both as inerrant fact, and metaphorical antiquated mythology so that I never offend anyone who might possibly hand over their hard-earned cash to me"
When you watch him you think he's just riffing but then you realize, to your horror, that Jordan Peterson has thought through all of these bizarro ideas.
Like Dawkins says, Peterson is drunk on symbols. He endlessly rides the merry go round of the Bible, becoming dizzy but refusing to get off for fear of experiencing the clarity of viewing things from an extra human perspective.
Dawkins is drunk on his ego.
@@rathraven1313 They both are, to be sure
How on earth can a human being "view things from an extra human perspective"?
@ It happens all the time, the scientific method is predicated upon seeing things with human subjectivity removed
Dr Peterson used to NOT be religious! It’s sad that he now defends (tries) this fairytale and superstition
He went Christian not too long ago
How to spot an idiot? They think Jordan Peterson is smart.
They thought Sam Harris was smart.
Jordan a millionair cooking and stir frying word salad.
A myopic biped such as: Jordan, Rogan, Piers, etc shouldn't have a platform with millions follower.
It's lead civilisation into choice autism, thus, Trump POTUSism.
Goes for the Weinstein brothers too
@@Rob-me8vpboom. Roasted.
JP uses language to obfuscate whereas SH uses language to illuminate. Point Harris.
Side note: can you imagine JP on the witness stand? Attorney “just answer my question” JP “every word I know…………………”
Sam did not *LITERALLY* dismantle Jordan or any bibles. No violence at all actually. Disappointed!!
Woefully underrated comment😂
As literal as the Bible
LOL
lol
Bro 😂
Woosh. Is there ever enough oxygen for anybody else on a stage with Jordan Peterson? As much as I admire such relentless curiosity, if Jordan were more openly curious he would learn how to listen -- and a touch of humility might not hurt.
I wish he had just gone into literary criticism or something. He has the perfect brain for that. But discussing the bible and morality with that same brain, yikes.
YES YES YES thats what good theapists do, they listen and understand. They DO nOT TRY TO CONERT. HE HAS DISGRACED HIS PROFESSION.....reall really sad
100%
it is on purpose and he is not the only one to do this sort of stuff - confuse the point AS MUCH as possible and sprinkle in easily observable half truths... it is manipulative.
@@issadad his popularity has gone to his head...
The Bible is basically just a Story Book and should be treated as such
Or a history in large part. Written as a history and confirmed more and more by archaeology.
The whole thing about killing and war has to be seen in context.
Has God changed His modus operandi? Certainly. From Christ onwards things change. It is no longer about protecting one nation against extinction by hostile nations. It is now about building God's initial idea of kingdom across all nations.
Sadly we are failing and the final solution we are told will be to take the ultimate authority out of human hands. This will require a leader who is not corrupt.
Ours is the choice. Do we believe humanity is able to solve its problems or do we accept Lordship of Christ.
I would personally want the lordship of Christ because I don't think we can get there ourselves.
Christians should be peacemakers and willing to give everything for others. Sadly we mostly fall short, but there have been movements throughout church history where this has worked for a while.
Peterson is not a biblical scholar. He doesn't really do a good job. My favourite theologian is Heiser. Gary Habermas for resurrection evidence. NT Wright for bits and bobs.
@@Richard-b5r9v and a lot of the stories are absolute feces.
Adult fantasy.
More like a movie script for a movie that was eventually scrapped, and the script was handed to different writers over and over so they could try to fix the problems with the script.
Ask chatGPT and it agrees in a way.
“Pseudo intellectualism” definition ought to depict a photo of Peterson.
JP is a man trapped in the web of concepts he himself is weaving.
"Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive..."
That seems like what we all do. Jordan Peterson is quite talented at weaving concepts, like any professor would be.
@@kayakMike1000He's not very talented at differentiating between concepts and really, so that's kind of a problem.
Well said.
What impressed me in reading the bible was the word KILL, KILL, KILL, repeated no less than a thousand times. An inspiration for types like Netanyahu ?
funny thing that a lot of the people that died in the bible were his own people. most of them just trying to live their lives.
Or Mohammed
Or other people living in a land that supposedly belongs to Israel....mmm that sounds familiar
Bibi literally invoked the slaughter of the Amalekites when he announced his genocide of Palestinians.
Many of the prophets and Jesus Christ himself rebuked the leadership of Israel. They have become sheep without a shepherd
Chekhov, it was Chekhov who said the riffle must go off in the second or third chapter. However, he meant don’t just blabber in your writing. Peterson should take a hint.
100% excellent pont
And it was Chekov, yes, Chekov on Ceti Alpha V whom Khan said he remembered meeting in the past during his time on the Enterprise, though he had never actually met him before. Peterson’s supposedly advanced mind is equal to that of Khan’s genetically engineered one, impressive until one spends even a short amount of time with it and discovers the failing blob of dimensionally flat diarrhea machinery it actually is.
not second or third chapter, but second or third ACT. And that’s not what was meant. It means if you lay the groundwork for a plot point pay it off at the end.
He's also citing fiction writers and their tactics to use as an argument the Bible ISN'T made up.
:)
Peterson is a quack for real.
I would've loved to see Christopher Hitchens debate Peterson on religion.
he is dead n i m
sure he dont give a fuk anymore..
there would have been several memorable hitch-slaps witnessed on that day, and they would have been edited into the montages of Hitchens at his very best. he would have called out Peterson's vapid world salad in the most direct and brutal way possible.
Rip hitch
JP cannot describe travelling from to A to B without going via Z.
But does he ever get to the B though?
This is the only second discussion i’ve seen from “JP.” I’ve interpreted everything by what he meant by context. Your statement is actually very interesting. “I believe” that he’s implying that to understand why A leads to B is because Z explains A and B, so he wants people to understand. The bible does this all over its text. You don’t get an answer to certain things or an explanation until you get to a certain point. It’s like a murder mystery. You don’t understand motive and process until you get to a certain point.
Science is the bases for Atheism but Science is linear. There’s no room from interpretation. You are either right or wrong or in other words either fact or fantasy.
Humans do not think linear because experience is based on interpretation and perspective. He’s trying to get harris to see the contradiction in the logic not the facts.
Mind you this is my opinion and I’m open to be wrong because i’m in search for the truth. Now some may jump to a primitive response but your comment suggests an intelligent and open debater. Thoughts?
@@profylebryon Sam Harris often says that even after a debate with JP he does not know what believes because he cannot call a spade a spade. He has to call it an "earth inverting implement". He is willfuly verbose.
I understand what he is trying to do when he says the New Testament effectively changes the meaning of Old Testament atrocities. Which, fankly is bullshit. Jews don't believe in Jesus or the NewTestament so is the meaning different for them?
Does the fact the Koran derives its legitimacy from both the Old and New Testaments ( while re-writing those 2 books to fit in with their world view) mean the New Testmant's meaning has changed?
@@profylebryon I was wondering why the Bible would need to be interpreted. SInce interpretation implies you will/may get different intepretations. Who decides which is the the correct interpretation. Should it not be crystal clear if the writing was inspired by God?
How do we get rid of Jordan Peterson?
He's zio now so we probably won't
Side with the people who think there are more than two genders.
Flush
Quit watching videos about him.
@@kathleenshaw932 So true, but this,video is rather old. Does anyone sane,watch JP himself anymore? People like Sam Harris, who know there's no sincere, adult reason to engage with JP, do so because it was simply lucrative. Its the same reason people like Piers Morgan, amongst others, give wastes of oxygen like Andrew Tate the time of day.
Some can use a few words to say nonsense. Jordan uses a library.
When debating, when a person starts the sentence with "Look" nothing good ever follows
I hate any conversation starting with "Look". However it does quickly show you whom your speaking with.
Sarah Hucka-san did that ALL the time when she was Rump's spox. And now Carine Jean-pierre (sp) does it too. It's dismissive and condescending.
It's a desperate attempt to make himself appear dominant in discussion, almost like he's only here to school people on a well established theory, not discuss it.
JD Vance starts more than 3/4 of his responses with “Look…” It drives me bonkers.
@@JB-lp9xr I guess it really appeals to his electorate. It's only a rude and ignorant approach.
Why would a god wanting you to follow his rules, not make the book as easy to read as possible, there should literally be no room for interpretation when reading it.. An all knowing god would know this..
I've asked this? many times. No clear answer. 'Works in mysterious ways' if the religious leaders still argue about meaning, doesn't that say something? Wouldn't a god make himself clear?
An all knowing God would have made following his rules an inherent part of humanity and not wait until writing is developed
Rehead comprehension is the main issue.
He wouldn't pass on a message via text at all because even the simplest statements & omissions can be interpreted six ways to Sunday considering billions of people are reading it. But I side with literalists as the most reasonable position. Those that argue for "sophisticated" theology and a priest class to explain to the commoner are blowing smoke up their own ass. As if one had to be a scholar or take the word of others to understand God's word.
What we currently have is 000's of fractured denominations because the msg isn't clear. And with salvation on the line, it's only a stupid God or no God at all that allows that situation to persist.
@@dmc6262 - it is futile. As Harris states there is not such thing as free will. Everything is predetermined by biological, chemical, and gravitational events that already occurred. Those who believe in God cannot do otherwise. I cannot do otherwise than respond to your statement; and you cannot do otherwise than write what you wrote.
He NAILED it when he said "you happen to be born a hindu or born a muslim or born a jew who doesn't recognize jesus to be the messiah you are screwed for all eternity"
And this scheme was set up by an omnipitent loving god. So this god creates souls that he knows are not going to be successfull . He/She is makeing shoddy goods and has created a hell it torture these badly made souls for ever. Not logical at all
Exactly. It was only slightly wrong, as muslims do beleuve Jesus is the messiah...
@@yassineraiselfenni4861incorrect
Never understood that, even as kid. That and the Abraham and his son story.
I mean, how convenient for the authors?
JP just rambles shit all the time, chuck in a few big words and he thinks he knows everything
.... I did realize my vocabulary is wanting listening to these men.... 😀
Just like Russell brand
JP can't give up his religion because then he'd have to give up his hypocrisy
He's not stupid. He knows he loses his baseline current conspiracy/ neo-christian conservative grift would be gone overnight. Money and fame means more to JP. His actions speak louder than his words. Much like most of this movement. It's no diff than their pro-segregationist parents. They're simply repeating history. And Jordan is their Shepard. He has to live and die, possible face a creator with his actions. You can only run from yourself, for so long.
That whould kill a huge part of his income stream.
profit *
$
@dawnlovell4412 yep that's what gets petercon hard, greed
Any claiming that J.Peterson has any deeper value or insights beyond providing a safe-space for emotionally fragile, conservatist boys, will always be met by ridicule.
😂😂😂
I knew him from my time at uoft.
He talks a lot and doesn't say much while telling everyone they need to listen more.
Come on, don't be too hard on him. After all, he *did* go 19 whole minutes without crying in this video.
I’m halfway through and I’m really not sure what JP’s point is.
Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction.-Blaise Pascal
Interesting, given that Pascal wrote an entire book about the logical justification for believing in the Christian God over any other. I mean, it's compelling reading, even if it's got some central logical flaws. So I guess maybe it's not so surprising that he would also admonish the evils done by 'religious conviction.' I've recently been talking with a guy who is a Christian fundamentalist and he's the first to admit that a lot of bad stuff has been done in the name of Christianity, but his beliefs also qualify that those people were not 'real Christians.' In other words, his beliefs rely heavily on the No True Scotsman logical fallacy - that the evil that was done was *in spite* of the supposed faith of the perpetrators, and not a result of it. That kind of contortion of belief is one of the scariest aspects of it, and you can see that in Peterson here. Their entire worldview rests on their ability to make it all make sense to themselves, even if that sense would fall apart completely if they ever subjected it to honest scrutiny.
The more I listen to JP he sounds more religious and less scientist.
Well he denies climate change and has no background in science he's a psychologist
Misuse of the word "literally' drives me figuratively insane!
You and me both.
JP ‘depends on what you mean by literally’ 🤣
“If you can’t beat them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit” - it’s worked for religious & political leaders since the dawn of humanity.
As a literary scholar, I can tell you that JP's words are just word salad nonsense. The reason why a fictional narrative's beginning (may) have the end within it, is because it has been deliberately constructed that way, by an author.
Take a bildungsroman such as Dickens' Great Expectations as an example: even though the young Pip is speaking to us at the beginning of the novel, we are also hearing the present day/grown up Pip speaking; thus, the beginning is in some ways influenced by the end.
But Peterson begins by saying that the Bible is a group of books that were edited and put together in a specific way, after the fact (thousands of years after the fact in the case of the earliest books' place in the modern Christian Bible.), to create a progressive narrative, and then adds in the nonsense about 'the end influencing the beginning'.
He's literally admitting that the compilers of the modern Bible set out to create a narrative (which includes the prophecy of Jesus etc. etc.) that was not implied by the original books.
Also note, like all good liars, JP can think on his feet: every time he says something that he realises might offend the Christians, or his incel bros., he employs a caveat (for example: it sounds like I'm saying the Bible is a fiction, but that's beside(s) sic., the point: is it?), or alters what he was going to say (sound like anyone? clue: the weave), so it makes no sense at all.
Peterson has completely mastered the art of “beating around the bush”! He says nothing of substance. I think he believes that he can impress his audience by using adept circumlocution with big words and lofty meaningless phrases! He is certainly a genius of bullshit! 😂😂
He loves beating around his grandma's bush, her loves dreaming of her bush in his face 😅
Just because you can not follow it does not mean "he say's nothing of substance".
I give JP the benefit of the doubt that he's 10x smarter than me cuz I have no #%&# idea what he's saying.
@@FARADAMA184Can you follow? Let's hear your explanation of his rumblings here....
@@bruno_diastldr: context matters
JP sez, "I don't think I'm qualified to make metaphysical statements." A truer claim and best self-own ever made.
Yeah. But then he proceeds to make tons of such statements. On the other hand, anyone can make metaphysical statements. Anyone can philosophize and ponder. These are simply thoughts and don't require any education, supportive documents, or falsafiablilty... I guess like religions too. Which is why religious people flock to such titles.
Jordan Peterson got laughed out of town when he came to speak here in my area
JP is runining in circkles away ftom the truth
He is not debating but hiding from the subject.
And that is an apt summation for every "debate" that Peterson engages in. He obfuscates and gaslights with pseudo intellectual gibberish. It impresses only those who are unread and unfamiliar with logic, reasoning, and critical thinking.
Peterson would have more success talking to a wall and convince it of whatever nonsense he's blabbering about than to convince a person with competent thinking skills
Jordan LITERALLY just reinforced the stance that the Bible is fiction. 😂
It's refreshing to see people with opposing views be so respectful. Respect for both. ❤
Jordan Peterson - what a muppet.
Sam wiped the floor with this 'full of himself' JP brain ache.
Petersons talk with Matt Dillahunty is a good watch too. Matt was more cut throat.
love watching sam smear jordan on the pavement
@@TRUECRIMEADDICTTT but where did he smear him? Did sam make an argument how we can find meaning? No new atheist has been able to. You can see the nihilism in the comments here. I haven’t seen a single person arguing for JPs point fall to name calling. That’s the atheists main forms of argument. I’d say that’s JP making progress in the way he intended with the people that would listen to him.
@@razorsedge864 Atheists aren’t required to engage in debates. If someone claims that God or Jesus exists, they should provide proof or evidence. Without it, we simply don’t believe the claim-that’s what being an atheist means. The burden of proof lies with the person making the claim. If there’s no solid argument or evidence, then the belief remains unconvincing. Atheist aren't required to be dabate lords.
@@razorsedge864hard to disprove a point when JP doesnt make anything coherent.
When the person starts saying “but what do you mean by” to every word
Why on earth would a god provide a guidebook for its illiterate minions that requires it to be read/heard in the context of the entire narrative to interpret it correctly? Why would it make the message so convoluted and easy to misunderstand? The whole premise of this argument is badly flawed.
That is so true, if there is a Creator that is all powerfull so he can do pretty much everything we can imagine and more..
and also wants to show himself to us in a way we can all understand him clearly and there is no separation, cant he just make one book of what he wants to say to us and just deliver copy to every nation on their respective language, plus he could make it of material that is unknown to us so we know this is not from our world...they also say he is all loving but what is more loving than having unity of all people on whole planet.
@@Fighting-Spirit7 Creator=he? Evidence has always indicated through out history, birth (creation) is by "she"
not to mention obscene and immoral
Jordan Peterson should be a politician. He already speaks like one. Never answers a question, and just talks in circles until you can't stand to listen to him anymore.
how can someone think of themselves as an intellectual while at the same time harboring beliefs in supernatural bullshit?
That "supernatural bullshit" is real, son. You will find out in your own time, we all do eventually. I wish you enlightenment.
@@kayakMike1000 Its not though, its all made up. Its make believe. Doesn't matter if its the Bible, the Quran, The Havamal, Hopi prophesy, shinto legends, its all made up nonsense.
@@kayakMike1000 it is nothing but mental illness fairytales. It's bizarre in 2024 people take this serious for a micro second
Delusion is independent from Intellect
@@kayakMike1000 I recently turned 80 and I know now more than ever that "supernatural bullshit" is really just well... bullshit. I wish you enlightenment too, sonny boy.
Sam Harris - the polite Christopher Hitchens
If word salad were edible, Peterson could end hunger globally. 😂
The difference between the old and New Testament is god went to anger management classes and toned it down for the masses because the church knew it was the best way to separate its believers from their cash and their ability to exercise free will and new thoughts
JP and Dinesh want to frame the Bible as some piece of work when Christian’s view it as GODS Word without fallacies and contradictions. JP and Dinesh don’t understand how an actual Christian is interpreting the books they’re trying to defend in a secular way.
Yes 💯 I lived in the south for years and I’d be shocked if you found Peterson or dinesh boots on the ground going to a church there, worshiping the way they do or agreeing with anything they believed or talked about there. They’d be fish out of water, in person.
"That is why Christ was born at the darkest part of the year." This is an example of eisegesis which is making anything out of anything as opposed to exegesis which is a more scholarly form of bringing forward ideas from scriptures. If Shepherds were tending their sheep when Jesus was born - it was probably September at the latest. Later than that and sheep were brought inside into caves etc. Christians chose the date of Christmas because they could celebrate at the same time as the ancient Roman festival of the Saturnalian. Ex Bible College student here who knows Midrash bs when he hears it.
I read in a couple places the Jesus was actually born in mid August (making him a Leo…..certainly not around Xmas
Yes, August/September.
Thanks appreciate the definition
Agreed. The Church pinched the mid winter festival date because the folks were having such a good time.
Jordan Peterson the weasel thats not weaseling around
That makes no sense whatsoever. He is a weasel and he does nothing but weasel around.
@@redmed10 @0:33 shutup
Wasn't he a lobster before? 🤣
I don’t agree with the title of this video but it was interesting to hear the conversation.
I’m not for or against Peterson but when you look up the word “verbose” in the dictionary his picture appears.
His picture? No, a 200 word description of his picture.
Remember when people actually thought Jordon Peterson was a proper intellectual? 😂
Not really, no.
I mean, the guy stood up there with a straight face and spent twenty minutes making the case that Bible hermeneutics is fundamental to christianity. I can hear a billion people screaming in Catholic all the way from here.
They still do. It's sad
Snap! Call the burn ward!@@ryanwhitaker4444
YesJordan, you are weaseling around. Always!
they say inteligence is the ability to comunicate a complex idea in a more simple way .. jordan does a great job to switch that narative lol 😂
His whole argument is metaphysical the study of reality beyond the physical. When he says stuff like this he's using a word that has a meaning, but he's not in agreement with the rest of the world what that meaning means. Here he says he's not qualified to make a metaphysical statement when that's all he does in his arguments. It's dishonest and I wonder why any philosopher would engage with a guy who does not know what his argument actually is.
I don't understand JP. Am i alone?
It is like searching a needle in a haystack, and there is no needle.
I’m still trying to decide if I’m on the side of the dogmatic or prophetic tradition. Cause there’s a real tension there apparently.
@johndaven1 , 😆 classic.
He probably does not understand himself.
1000 word essay for a yes/no question. I shutdown after a while
Petersen master of the circular argument. Every time it ends is where it starts.
Indeed, and where it starts is also the end, from a moral relativistic metaphysical dialectical prophetic Hegelian perspective at least.
Like how you’re supposed to read books apparently
@@greybushMEproductionsThat's right, *in some sense* 😂
@@oscargr_ Since factual scenarios and analytical interpretations are each infinite, everything is always right, at least in some sense.
"Correct the devotees of Ancient myths, and endless genealogies, for they can only bring strife." 1st Timothy 1:4-5
10:40 Peterson really paints himself into a corner.
Essentially Harris is pointing out that Peterson is playing so much mental gymnastics with the text that with that standard you could essentially get any text to mean anything you want. He's not wrong there.
Now, it'd be one thing if Peterson argued that he's wrong. But he doesn't. Instead he fires back by saying "well you could do that with any set of facts too".
And this is exactly the type of things why I don't take Peterson seriously. If that's the argument, he's basically making the exact argument he's always been deriding from post modernists: that there exists no fundamental truth.
Peterson is just throwing his hands up like "yeah sure that's what I'm doing. I'm overly interpreting things way beyond the content of the book but so what, we all do that." And it follows then that if that is really what Peterson believes, then there would be no reason for him to focus on religious scriptures in particular. Or on the Bible. There is nothing special about these books since he could just as well word salad his way to some meaning from any and all material anyway.
Jordan is one of those people who can speak for hours without saying anything. I tried watching some of his lectures, he literally mumbled very passionately about complete nonsense
That's the thing. When you're educated enough to understand all the words he uses, you realize this. Less educated people assume there must be something smart being said since he's using so many words they don't understand.
More shit from Peterson.
We literally don’t need to put “literally” in front of literally everything
If you asked Jordan Peterson for the time, you would get an hour long answer. Pure word salad !!
well it depends what you mean by time, when you asked the question it was 11:37 and 35 seconds, but now I'm answering it's 11:39 and 22 seconds. So metaphysically which was the correct time. Well it's now neither because the time is actually 11:41 and 15 seconds. So you see how the concept of time changes as the discussion advances. So again what do you mean by what time is it.
@@theslugboiii5969 Yes, and if i got an hour long answer then the time would be different at the beginning of the answer as opposed to the end of he answer.
As a catholic I was brought up to believe that it is a sin to eat fish on a Friday…especially Good Friday. The Vatican then changed its position on this and said it’s now okay to eat fish on a Friday. Does this mean that everyone who is burning in Hell for eating fish on a Friday have been exonerated 🤔?
Apparently, whale, dolphin & capybara are fish, by Vatican standards!
Of course. This is how this works, right? RIGHT??
JP is humorous too “I’ll try to be succinct “ LOL 😂
That *sigh* was fantastic... 😂
I went to church and bible class as a kid...for some reason...it never struck me as a truth. At around 12..it was obvious Noah's Ark was a fantastical story...there was never a global flood..and it is impossible to put all animals in a boat. Later as I traveled the Middle East and Iran and read more about other ...and saw other religions...including Zorastianism...it seemed clear that Chrisitanity is a derivative religion. The fact a Roman emperor set up a committee to decide which texts became part of Bible...made it when harder to believe it was the literal word of God. I read a few of Ron Hubbard's sci-fi books (which are entertaining but not good scinfi) at around 14...Later in life I discovered he set up his own religion. I think he did this as the ultimate Exhibit A that people will literally believe anything as a religion. Hard to argue with him when it has thousands of followers. A further influence was time with my grandfather. I remember when Mormans and Jehavah witnesses came knocking...he would kindly accept a copy of their book...and invite them back the next week by which time he had read it. Over a cup of teq he would read out passages and say "do you believe this"...they would answer " yes sir"...he would look them in the eyes...pause.. then say "amazing".
I like the sound of your grandfather, all that effort to deadpan the whackos.
He was a smart man who retired too early...so needed intellectual stimulus ( he taught me algebra.amd science...saved my education). There is a twist...which was our last conversation before he passed away at 101.
@@ProximaCentairi24 what's the twist? Just curious, you don't have to answer.
@richardcooper9167 The last day I saw him we had a long philosophical discussion. I thanked him for all he had done for me....and said he had made a real difference in my life. I had to go back overseas and we knew this would be the last time we spoke. We talked about global warming (he said it was certainly not a problem he had to worry about)....mortality...and then the conversation took an unexpected turn. He asked me to close the door (he was in a manged care facility as he could not move well). He said what he had to tell me would sound unbelievable...and he had not spoken to anyone else about it. He said that recently....beings....people would appear in his room...he could only see them from the corner of his eye...there would be two or three talking amongst themselves and looking at him...if he tried to look at them directly they disappeared. They seemed to be interested in his room and even the plate of food that was near the wall on the serving trolley...he could not hear what they were saying..I asked him what they were wearing...I recall he said not usual clothes. He asked me if I thought he was going mad... as he was not religious at all. Based on the conversations we had just had...I said not at all. We discussed what it might mean....I said probably a sign you were to pass soon...but also a sign that there is someone waiting for you in whatever the next reality is. I told him about recent theories that consoicness occurs in a quantum realm, i.e., another dimension.....and maybe when the physical connection to this world ends ....we carry on. I asked him if my cousin had told him our grandmother...his wife...talked to her the day after she passed away....she asked my cousin to look after my grandfather....he had not heard that. I said we are both pretty logical thinkers...but you cannot just ignore what you saw or she heard...We spoke for a few hours then I had to go I said we willl see each other again in whatever world your visitors come from. 2 weeks later my son was born and he died the same day at 101.
@@ProximaCentairi24 thanks. Personally I doubt the existence of an afterlife and quantum consciousness sounds nonsensical, but I appreciate the synchronicity (can't think of a better word rn) of your grandfather passing and the birth of your son.
I have tried and tried to listen to Jordan, and have never yet heard him give an answer to anything. However I will persevere and who knows in the distant future, on distant planet in a distant galaxy, I. May get an answer to something, anything.
This is why Peterson won’t debate discuss religion again with Harris or Matt Dillyhunty
I attended a lecture by Peterson (used to be a fan) and when asked about atheism he said (among many things) that “if you’re an atheist, it means you’re probably not very educated.”
I think he’s honestly bitter because of both of those debates 😂
Legitimately put effort into listening to conversation and you will understand every word that Is spoken. Notice how they all weren’t upset about having a discussion. Just pointing out their perspectives.