100% agreed. This video should have more views. One must first program the brain to the trajectory, through lots of repetition with conscious aiming. Then gradually transition to instinctive/ subconscious aiming. Like shooting clays with a shotgun, there are also varying degrees of aiming, depending on skill and situation.
Finally someone explained it! I started shooting traditional back in june and the way you described it is spot on to what I do. I couldn’t explain it to others when asked if I was instinctive or gap shooting. My response was always “ more or less instinctive.” Thank you for the videos! God bless!
Normally, when im doing well practicing and i start to "aim" with my tip, i usually and up missing my targets. When i just focus on the target, things usually go much better. Great videos. I'm glad i found your channel. Have a blessed day.
That way of thinking about the shot is a way of thinking I have used over the years for many different tasks. It works. Called the power of positive thinking back in the day before your time. Great video. Thanks for bringing it into the trad side of archery. God bless.
This is a great way of describing it! I’ve always had a hard time explaining it to people. Willing the arrow to the spot and visualizing the arrow in the spot it should go has always been the best I could explain it.
@@EthanPageHunter for me everything else but the point of impact falls out of focus but is still there. I let my subconscious have the details and concentrate on where I want the shot to land I guess. Good video! We need more folks getting back to the basics f archery! God bless
I've been shooting Traditional for 40 plus years, and I tell folks I shoot Gapstinctive.I am aware of my arrow but not focused on it. I know where it is in relation to where I want to hit. I know what my arrow will do out to 40 plus yards. I know what my sight picture should be, and I hold until it looks right. That could be 2-5 seconds or longer if need be. Do I shoot perfect scores all the time...well, no. But, I do hit what I want to 80-90% of the time. The key is learning your bows trajectory, and that comes by shooting the bow hundreds, even thousands of shots.
True instinctive shooting is a lot like throwing a ball or shooting a basketball. It all takes a lot of practice and familiarity with your equipment and consistent repetition.
This is great. I've been slowly coming to this realization after about a year of shooting. I think the visualization process also connects with the drawing process - when I visualize my arrow flight, I am also aware of the force vector that is drawn between by draw hand and my bow hand and where that force vector is pointing.
How one develops a process for reliably getting arrow from bow to what's being targeted is such a very personal journey. Good luck to all who step off on that journey and to all who are along its path.
The disadvantages of instinctive shooting are rarely pointed out. Here are two 1) it's like high level guitar playing - you must be almost daily dedicated 2) best to stick to one bow and one type of arrow set up vs. having multiple bows, set ups, etc.
Not a disadvantage to me to be a multi bow switch shooter that uses a Hill draw with even recurves .I shoot 3 under on short range and switch naturally to split for longer ranges without thinking about it and do quite well .Honestly I have for over 50 years .
I spoke with Paul back in the late 80's and he recommended stump shooting with broadheads (if possible) at all ranges to learn the trajectory of the arrow. I have a book by Jay Kidwell that mentions how important it is to watch the flight of the arrow so your brain can learn faster what the arrow does at various ranges. Our brain is a powerful computer and it learns. Your video points out how important this advice is to bowhunting. Thanks for sharing!
@@donaldbuckner2935 you said something important when you said various ranges. The notion of paying no attention to range is ludicrous. There has to be an estimation of range or distance to target. Thanks for sharing.
I tell everyone that repetition leads to your mind building its “instinctive” range finder. I believe our minds map out that trajectory when we shoot day after day from different distances. I can’t understand why people discount or argue that instinctive shooting isn’t real, our minds are powerful tools, just have to train it for the task
I'm my experience the only difference between "instinctive" and "gap" shooting is division of consciousness. When shooting instinctively the archer is performing the exact same steps as the gap shooter, but with less, or different, conscious effort. Though he may not be actively aware of it, he is drawing back and lining up with consistent form, he's registering the gap between arrow and target while focusing on the latter, and releasing with consistent form until his arrow either hits the target or flies over/under it so he can self-diagnose. To drastically paraphrase G. Fred Asbell in TBB Vol. 2: any old bent stick will fling an arrow, but only as consistently as the arrows and the archer are to begin with.
@@EthanPageHunter Thanks! I like the way you look at things, too, brother. Either you're a natural, or you have training/experience as a teacher, and I appreciate that you utilize it the way you do.
This explains how I shoot. Pretty much the way I describe it too. Proper practice trains the subconscious mind to perform. The more things you have to concentrate on, the more things you mess up. When programmed the subconscious mind can perform many things at once and not mess up. A good book that explains the way the conscious and subconscious mind work to shoot is The Zen of Archery.
I got to thinking about something you either said in a video or a comment to me. About shooting left wing because that was the natural rotation of your bare shaft. So, being that I am about to make up a dozen arrows, I thought let me check rotation on a bare shaft. Turns out for me it spins CW or right. I thought maybe it is a 3 under thing. So, I did the test again 3 under and I thought bingo. Turns out it was still CW. It just spun way more. I had to move to almost point blank range to determine it. So, at least for my bow. I am good right wing. The rotation is so minimal for my Mediterranean release that it probably wouldn't matter. But, when I shot 3 under it made about a 2/3 rotation at 3 or 4 yards. So, in my case if I shot left wing 3 under there would be a substantial torque to overcome to get her back to spinning right. Now I am wondering if this might vary from bow to bow. I only have one bow with me today but, I will try it in 5 or 6 other bows and report back to you.
You know it might not have been you that even told me that. It was one of you young guys. Heck Ethan, at my age I ain't sufferin' from memory loss....I'm actually enjoyin' it😂
Byron Ferguson wrote the book “Become the Arrow “ I recommend it highly. You can’t make long shots, past 20-25 yards instinctively. Every situation is different. Howard Hill used what he called split vision shooting. He tells of shooting an elk at a great distance, missing the first time but compensating with the second arrow and taking the elk. You can read more about it in “Hunting the Hard Way “.
No doubt Paul was a beast. Instinctive is hard to describe because at least part of it is subconscious. For me it is shooting to a distance that my bow will shoot relatively flat. Once you get beyond 25 for me, I am paying a bit more attention to a point in space above the victim. Right now I am on a Roll. Last 4 hunts 3 shots. I big boar, a fat doe and a big sow, currently roommates in my freezer. Going out today to hopefully bring in a buck or 2. Good luck Ethan.
It’s also good to shoot a lot of bows and find a bow that naturally shoots close to where your eyes see. I bought a green KMag at a 3d shoot and within 5 shots it just hits where I look. My other bows take a little more concentration.
Those thousands of arrows also helped you lock in your shot process so it is repeatable every time. Same grip, same anchor point, same release. The first several thousand shots are about training your muscles, learning back tension, repeatable anchor, lengthening out your draw, good release mechanics, etc. Using an aiming method like gap shooting actually helps establish this. The next several thousand arrows you can focus more on the target spot but still secondarily reference where your arrow point is and the direction the arrow is pointing. It's not until many, many thousands of shots that you just know where the arrow is going and you can solely focus on the target. The archers that get to the top level have to respect that many archers will never achieve that level of competence but can still be very successful arvchers and hunters using an aiming method.
When I started shooting trad, I tried gap, string walking, and fixed crawl. It was horrible. I started hitting when I got mad, and said " I am going to look at a spot, and shoot it''. I think if you have a consistent anchor, and decent enough form, you can truly draw the bow, and hit what you want to. Look at Jeff Phillips with instinctive addiction archery. That man can pick up any bow, and shoot it at any distance. That's because he has a solid process behind the bow. The deer I have killed I don't remember drawing, or releasing, because my mind was blank, and all I did was pick a spot. Muscle memory should take over at that point in my opinion.
A true instinctive shooter can shoot from any position at bowhunting yardage and hitting your intened target. Ive shot mature deer with my recurve standing, sitting, laying on my back and twisting in almost every position possible. I shoot several longbows and recurves and Ive taken game with them all. A true instinctive shooter can pull the shot off in almost any situation while holding the bow many different ways....
It's called knowing your D.O.P.E. Data of previous engagement. It's really no different than hold overs when using fixed optics on a rifle. That said anyone shooting 80 yards at a whitetail with any bow has wounded a butt load more thar they recovered.
Paul Shafer was a great hunter, I almost bought one of his bows after he passed a 85 lb longbow with a dozen arrows that he killed his last ram with if I'm not mistaken, but he couldn't hold a candle to Howard Hill by any stretch of the imagination, Howard Hill won a 196 field tournaments in a row, he killed over 2000 pieces of game, over 430 big game, first white man to kill an elephant with a longbow 115 lb with a 1700 Grain 😮41 inch arrow, Howard Hill didn't stand like a block on the wall when he was shooting when the arrow reached his face it was released at 250 ft per second, end of story you're out of your flipping gourd!
And by the way guru Howard Hill set records that will never be touched he shot the longest arrows ever with the longbow with his feet and hand and he killed an elk 185 steps away with the longbow fact and no one shot heavier balls and Howard Hill he shot from 90 to 125 lb longbows and he could string them sitting in his recliner
100% agreed. This video should have more views.
One must first program the brain to the trajectory, through lots of repetition with conscious aiming. Then gradually transition to instinctive/ subconscious aiming. Like shooting clays with a shotgun, there are also varying degrees of aiming, depending on skill and situation.
@@Kohamatazil exactly
Finally someone explained it! I started shooting traditional back in june and the way you described it is spot on to what I do. I couldn’t explain it to others when asked if I was instinctive or gap shooting. My response was always “ more or less instinctive.” Thank you for the videos! God bless!
@@SuperSeymour16 thanks for watching!
Normally, when im doing well practicing and i start to "aim" with my tip, i usually and up missing my targets. When i just focus on the target, things usually go much better. Great videos. I'm glad i found your channel. Have a blessed day.
@@trashpanda2396 thanks for watching
That way of thinking about the shot is a way of thinking I have used over the years for many different tasks. It works. Called the power of positive thinking back in the day before your time. Great video. Thanks for bringing it into the trad side of archery. God bless.
@@sarafayelawton652 thanks for watching
Awesome advice!!!!!!
This is a great way of describing it! I’ve always had a hard time explaining it to people. Willing the arrow to the spot and visualizing the arrow in the spot it should go has always been the best I could explain it.
@@Red_River_Primitive it’s like aiming with your site picture rather than the tip of your arrow along with visualizing trajectory.
@@EthanPageHunter for me everything else but the point of impact falls out of focus but is still there. I let my subconscious have the details and concentrate on where I want the shot to land I guess. Good video! We need more folks getting back to the basics f archery! God bless
I've been shooting Traditional for 40 plus years, and I tell folks I shoot Gapstinctive.I am aware of my arrow but not focused on it. I know where it is in relation to where I want to hit. I know what my arrow will do out to 40 plus yards. I know what my sight picture should be, and I hold until it looks right. That could be 2-5 seconds or longer if need be. Do I shoot perfect scores all the time...well, no. But, I do hit what I want to 80-90% of the time. The key is learning your bows trajectory, and that comes by shooting the bow hundreds, even thousands of shots.
@@charlesgray372 for sure
True instinctive shooting is a lot like throwing a ball or shooting a basketball. It all takes a lot of practice and familiarity with your equipment and consistent repetition.
This is great. I've been slowly coming to this realization after about a year of shooting. I think the visualization process also connects with the drawing process - when I visualize my arrow flight, I am also aware of the force vector that is drawn between by draw hand and my bow hand and where that force vector is pointing.
@@bethankful glad you liked it.
Well said. Thought provoking for sure. I’m always up for trying something new or different. Thanks.
@@TraditionalArcheryJourney best of luck
How one develops a process for reliably getting arrow from bow to what's being targeted is such a very personal journey. Good luck to all who step off on that journey and to all who are along its path.
The disadvantages of instinctive shooting are rarely pointed out. Here are two 1) it's like high level guitar playing - you must be almost daily dedicated 2) best to stick to one bow and one type of arrow set up vs. having multiple bows, set ups, etc.
those are both very valid points. thanks for sharing that.
Not a disadvantage to me to be a multi bow switch shooter that uses a Hill draw with even recurves .I shoot 3 under on short range and switch naturally to split for longer ranges without thinking about it and do quite well .Honestly I have for over 50 years .
I really enjoy ur videos man, keep it up
@@Crabbthecaveman I appreciate the support
I spoke with Paul back in the late 80's and he recommended stump shooting with broadheads (if possible) at all ranges to learn the trajectory of the arrow. I have a book by Jay Kidwell that mentions how important it is to watch the flight of the arrow so your brain can learn faster what the arrow does at various ranges. Our brain is a powerful computer and it learns. Your video points out how important this advice is to bowhunting. Thanks for sharing!
@@donaldbuckner2935 you said something important when you said various ranges. The notion of paying no attention to range is ludicrous. There has to be an estimation of range or distance to target. Thanks for sharing.
I tell everyone that repetition leads to your mind building its “instinctive” range finder. I believe our minds map out that trajectory when we shoot day after day from different distances. I can’t understand why people discount or argue that instinctive shooting isn’t real, our minds are powerful tools, just have to train it for the task
@@StickHippieOutdoors that’s true
I sat with Barry and Gene for a couple hours during a hunt. They told me stories about Paul. I'm not into legends, but man, Paul was the GOAT.
@@2anonymous what an incredible experience with the Wensel boys!
I'm my experience the only difference between "instinctive" and "gap" shooting is division of consciousness.
When shooting instinctively the archer is performing the exact same steps as the gap shooter, but with less, or different, conscious effort. Though he may not be actively aware of it, he is drawing back and lining up with consistent form, he's registering the gap between arrow and target while focusing on the latter, and releasing with consistent form until his arrow either hits the target or flies over/under it so he can self-diagnose.
To drastically paraphrase G. Fred Asbell in TBB Vol. 2: any old bent stick will fling an arrow, but only as consistently as the arrows and the archer are to begin with.
@@gunslingersymphony5015 good way to look at it
@@EthanPageHunter Thanks! I like the way you look at things, too, brother. Either you're a natural, or you have training/experience as a teacher, and I appreciate that you utilize it the way you do.
@@gunslingersymphony5015 I just like to help people where I can.
This explains how I shoot. Pretty much the way I describe it too. Proper practice trains the subconscious mind to perform. The more things you have to concentrate on, the more things you mess up. When programmed the subconscious mind can perform many things at once and not mess up. A good book that explains the way the conscious and subconscious mind work to shoot is The Zen of Archery.
I got to thinking about something you either said in a video or a comment to me. About shooting left wing because that was the natural rotation of your bare shaft. So, being that I am about to make up a dozen arrows, I thought let me check rotation on a bare shaft. Turns out for me it spins CW or right. I thought maybe it is a 3 under thing. So, I did the test again 3 under and I thought bingo. Turns out it was still CW. It just spun way more. I had to move to almost point blank range to determine it. So, at least for my bow. I am good right wing. The rotation is so minimal for my Mediterranean release that it probably wouldn't matter. But, when I shot 3 under it made about a 2/3 rotation at 3 or 4 yards. So, in my case if I shot left wing 3 under there would be a substantial torque to overcome to get her back to spinning right. Now I am wondering if this might vary from bow to bow. I only have one bow with me today but, I will try it in 5 or 6 other bows and report back to you.
You know it might not have been you that even told me that. It was one of you young guys. Heck Ethan, at my age I ain't sufferin' from memory loss....I'm actually enjoyin' it😂
@@UncleDanBand64 this is awesome information. Please keep us posted!
@@EthanPageHunter 10-4
thanks for the video ethan, guy has to do what works for the goose...hehe
@@unknown-archer for sure
Byron Ferguson wrote the book “Become the Arrow “ I recommend it highly. You can’t make long shots, past 20-25 yards instinctively. Every situation is different. Howard Hill used what he called split vision shooting. He tells of shooting an elk at a great distance, missing the first time but compensating with the second arrow and taking the elk. You can read more about it in “Hunting the Hard Way “.
@@richardbernard8491 that’s for sure
Good video!
@@bryceolson9042 thanks Bryce.
No doubt Paul was a beast. Instinctive is hard to describe because at least part of it is subconscious. For me it is shooting to a distance that my bow will shoot relatively flat. Once you get beyond 25 for me, I am paying a bit more attention to a point in space above the victim. Right now I am on a Roll. Last 4 hunts 3 shots. I big boar, a fat doe and a big sow, currently roommates in my freezer. Going out today to hopefully bring in a buck or 2. Good luck Ethan.
@@UncleDanBand64 that’s some good huntin
@EthanPageHunter I am having a blast. It is like grocery shopping accept more fun. Clean Up Aisle 5😃
It’s also good to shoot a lot of bows and find a bow that naturally shoots close to where your eyes see. I bought a green KMag at a 3d shoot and within 5 shots it just hits where I look. My other bows take a little more concentration.
@@billybrown9390 bingo
U just described what it took me years and thousands of arrows to figure out becoming the arrow and site picture.
@@jamesunderdal8976 same here.
Excellent reply in that it emphasizes the necessity of shooting many many many arrows to develop mind's eye image of how the shot will play out.
Those thousands of arrows also helped you lock in your shot process so it is repeatable every time. Same grip, same anchor point, same release. The first several thousand shots are about training your muscles, learning back tension, repeatable anchor, lengthening out your draw, good release mechanics, etc. Using an aiming method like gap shooting actually helps establish this. The next several thousand arrows you can focus more on the target spot but still secondarily reference where your arrow point is and the direction the arrow is pointing. It's not until many, many thousands of shots that you just know where the arrow is going and you can solely focus on the target. The archers that get to the top level have to respect that many archers will never achieve that level of competence but can still be very successful arvchers and hunters using an aiming method.
When I started shooting trad, I tried gap, string walking, and fixed crawl. It was horrible. I started hitting when I got mad, and said " I am going to look at a spot, and shoot it''. I think if you have a consistent anchor, and decent enough form, you can truly draw the bow, and hit what you want to. Look at Jeff Phillips with instinctive addiction archery. That man can pick up any bow, and shoot it at any distance. That's because he has a solid process behind the bow. The deer I have killed I don't remember drawing, or releasing, because my mind was blank, and all I did was pick a spot. Muscle memory should take over at that point in my opinion.
@@ALShipping there definitely comes a point where that is the case
Only problem about trying to gap at the beginning is I shoot split. At 20 yrds I’m several feet below the target. I use the arrow for left and right.
@@jarridcarter5001 yes split is quite a difference.
Good thing to practice in the future. Don’t want to start something new right in the middle of the hunting season and mess with your confidence
@@josephbrennan7637 good plan
Byron Ferguson has a book titled, Become the Arrow.i haven't read it but I must think that's what he might be referring to.
@@garykruta245 given he is similar to Howard Hill, very possibly.
A true instinctive shooter can shoot from any position at bowhunting yardage and hitting your intened target.
Ive shot mature deer with my recurve standing, sitting, laying on my back and twisting in almost every position possible.
I shoot several longbows and recurves and Ive taken game with them all.
A true instinctive shooter can pull the shot off in almost any situation while holding the bow many different ways....
@@Stickbow1980 that’s good
Give me something to think about, thanks for sharing
@@KevinRedford-g8r thanks for watching
Do you Think saying (I think ) that's what causes target panic is a good idea, when the cause is known!
@@johnbottone4996 not sure I understand your question as it seems to be framed more as a statement.
It's called knowing your D.O.P.E.
Data of previous engagement.
It's really no different than hold overs when using fixed optics on a rifle.
That said anyone shooting 80 yards at a whitetail with any bow has wounded a butt load more thar they recovered.
Instincting aiming .
Paul Shafer was a great hunter, I almost bought one of his bows after he passed a 85 lb longbow with a dozen arrows that he killed his last ram with if I'm not mistaken, but he couldn't hold a candle to Howard Hill by any stretch of the imagination, Howard Hill won a 196 field tournaments in a row, he killed over 2000 pieces of game, over 430 big game, first white man to kill an elephant with a longbow 115 lb with a 1700 Grain 😮41 inch arrow, Howard Hill didn't stand like a block on the wall when he was shooting when the arrow reached his face it was released at 250 ft per second, end of story you're out of your flipping gourd!
@@earlfultz8603 I’m definitely a big Hill fan
And by the way guru Howard Hill set records that will never be touched he shot the longest arrows ever with the longbow with his feet and hand and he killed an elk 185 steps away with the longbow fact and no one shot heavier balls and Howard Hill he shot from 90 to 125 lb longbows and he could string them sitting in his recliner