My Brompton is a 6 speed. Changed to 44T. Perfect for hills, fine for the flats. On standard gearing, spin-out downhill was around 30mph. On the 44T it is around 25mph. But in neither case, on the flat, do I want to be trying to attain or maintain those speeds! With a gentle following wind, 17-20 on the flat is a sustainable gait. I try and have a following wind as often as possible.
I have a 2013 M6L with a 44T chain ring, and a 2022 Ti 4-speed with 50T chain ring. There's about a 4.5k/9 lb weight advantage for the Ti. The M6L is a better climber, but if the terrain is flat (and on the flats) the Ti is just a faster bike. I would choose the M6L for Seattle, Sydney (AUS), and the Redding/Woking/Reigate UK areas, and the Ti for London/Cambridge, San Jose CA, and Gothenburg (SWE) areas. (I've ridden a Brompton in all of these locations plus more.) The light weight of the Ti 4-speed makes it a joy to tote around, while toting the M6L through the London Metro is cumbersome and tiring. As others have noted, I wouldn't choose to ride either bike faster than 20 mph... the Brompton design is more prone to flying over the handlebars and breaking a collar bone or worse than a regular bicycle (don't ask me how I know). They will go fast but aren't designed for racing/speed but instead to offer a reasonably good ride for commuting and touring at 10 to 16 mph.
Hi, where did you buy the 44t . . . I have just bought a Brompton C Line Explore with 6 speeds and I am thinking of reducing the front drivetrain. Thank you
I have an A Line Brompton, 3 gear Sturmey Archer hub... It's just perfect! I love it. I use it for commuting: The train station is about 4 miles away, not really hilly, smooth riding. In the city, I use it to visit patients and customers, driving a car in the city sucks. Traffic jams...And nowhere to park your car. But my Brommie does the job. And I can put it under my desk in the office! 😊
Thank you for making this video, your commitment to enlightening us all is admirable! I've got a 6 speed C line and a 4 speed P line, I've also had a 3 speed. My 6 speed gets the most use and I've put a 44 chainring on because, like you, I couldn't spin out in top gear and at those sorts of speeds I'm probably better off freewheeling downhill instead. I find a lower 1st gear more useful than a high 6th gear for when I'm touring. My 4 speed P Line is superb for short swift rides in the city, the titanium forks and rear along with more supple tyres than the Marathon plus on my 6 speed make it ideal for what I use it for. I'd agree completely with your suggestion to take a test ride, the gearing choice is as important to me as the handlebar type.
Thanks for another great video. My wife and I (early seniors) have had 6 speed 44T Bromptons for 13 years. Mine was the super light while hers was a standard steel frame and forks. The 6 speeds allowed us to climb most hills and we rarely spun out in top gear. More recently we were fortunate to purchase two t-line urban bikes and the weight and gearing difference has been remarkable. We can easily spin out in top gear --due to the reduced weight and while we miss the lower gear on some quite steep hills the reduced weight makes all the difference. We can climb as easily as with the 6 speeds. So admitting riding a t-line is incredible and still quite rare, we find the 4 speed gearing more than adequate for cycling distances of 50km or more. Perhaps the biggest change is remembering there is only gear changing on the right side of the handle bars. Our next test will be to do some gentle touring to see if 4 speeds on a T-line are fine to tour with. We expect so.
Wow 2 T lines ❤ me and my Mrs have 6 speed c line but one day we will hopefully upgrade to the T line eventually. Although I’m very pleased with the c line or m6L I have. Such fun Enjoy touring the T lines.
The location was really beautiful, especially with the frost on the ground and the mist. The Brompton's were clearly a more comfortable form of transport than a broomstick...
I got the M6L. I remember struggling to spin out even on steep declines hitting almost 30mph. Seemed a bit pointless to me, as even a small pot hole going that speed with 16" wheels is going to very bad news. Anyway there's far too many hills round here so swapped the chainring for 44T and it's much more usable now as can take on more hills. Spins out lower mph now, 22-24mph which is fine with me as I'd rather freewheel downhill and rest my legs. If I wanted a speed machine I'd get a road bike.
I think you are right! It totally depends on what you want to do with the bike and it can be a little worrying going too quick key down hill on our little wheels
Thank you for your video. I like this type of content and your dedication. I have a S6L-X that I converted to a S9L-X with the help of my bicycle shop owner. It’s fantastic ! I have a lot of serious hills in my area and with this new gear ratio i ‘m able to go uphill and being gentle with my knees. I have 3 rears sprockets (19-15-12) and a 39T chainring. My top speed is a little less than 30 KMPH (18 MPH)
Thanks very much for this test. I switched from 6 gear to P Line with 4 gear. I changed the the front gear to 44 and the 1st rear gear to 21. Now it is fantastic for touring with Hills. The Top Speed is lower but not important for me. My wife rides the P Line electric and is limited to 25km/h which is easy for me to reach.
I've ridden a six speed with 44 chainring and a SwytchKit for years - it climbs walls! Just bought an electric P Line and hate the 18 tooth first gear - far too high so all my local steep hills kill me! Replaced 1st and 2nd gear with 21 and 17 tooth sprockets from a SunRace cassette on Amazon - almost perfect.
@@richardnumber1I feel like I need this mod, can you share the link for which SunRace cassette you purchased for the 21t and 17t? Any issues with clearance?
What a workout! I would've left my lungs right there at the side of the road. I ADORE my 6 gears. I even opted for the 44T chainring after trying the standard 50T for about 3 months. Live in Mexico City, and the streets are not in the best shape. There are also a lot of underpasses, overpasses, and some long roads that do not appear to be uphill BUT THEY ARE! Since I'm not in the best of physical shape either, so the 6 speeds are a MUST for me. And a good, resistant set of tires.
I find my 6speed/44t gives a great range for all my needs. I can get up steep hills, I can do the Thursday club runs and I can tour/go shopping with a big bag at the front! I’m a happy bunny 😂
May 2017, I’m a commuter, it’s not a big distance but does have a medium hill. I wanted it as light as possible. I visited the Brompton shop in London and they allowed me to try some Bromptons out. Testing the 3 heights (I’m 5’8” and went for the highest, for a more upright ride, and wide seat, more comfy) Before going, I was all set to get the single speed ; lightest, trouble free, but I realised that an extra gear didn’t add much weight, and you have to have the chain tensioners anyway. The 3-speed hub felt inefficient and noisy and added weight, click click click, couldn’t live with that; so that was the 3 & 6 out the running. I went 2-speed: “Gearing - 2-speed, -18%” in superlite in fact. Been loving it ever since. 1st take off gear, going, hit 2. Perfect for me. Any faster I’d hurt myself more. The 4-speed wasn’t out when I was buying, I’d have been tempted with that I imagine.
Thank You for the video. Very insightful. I have both a 6 speed C Line with 44T ring and 4 speed P Line. Love the P Line for quick fast loops around the city.
My Brompton was originally a 6-speed and while it was with yourselves for a service, you kindly converted it into a 3-speed and I couldn't be happier. It simplified maintenance massively.
My 44T M3 was over geared for touring so I fitted a 32T/22T double. The chain can by kicked from 32T to 22T but has to be manually put back. Now I can go up most hills (e.g. the 33% Wrynose Pass in the Lake District, England). Might try 36T/22T for extra speed.
I have 4 Brompton bikes. The 24.14 Kilometers per hour speed limit on my electric Brompton becomes a handicap in the USA, I frequently pedal just above that speed limit. My six speed black edition has the best gear ratio but still does not allow me to reach and sustain speeds just above 32.19 kilometers per hour. My new P-Line ultralight is worse than my black edition, I am slower, however I do enjoy the fact it is lightweight. Thank you for your time and effort producing such a great content. I already installed a bigger front-sprocket in my P-line but considering to go bigger.
I would change the headline to this video to .... Brompton Urban v Utility v Explore or Brompton 2 speed v 3 speed v 6 speed because i could not find this video it just popped up on my feed................. It all depends on The city you live in , Your physical ability and whether you are planning to take the Brompton to other areas , cities countries etc .
I started my Brompton life with a 3-speed, then progressed to a 6-speed electric. Subsequently replaced the rear wheel on my acoustic 3-speed with a wide ratio hub.
I agree, doing one ride after another tiredness was probably a component in confusing results. For me, a very average older rider, spin out is rarely a problem, but the hills are always a problem. I will always choose the lowest gear ratios available for any bike.
The power pedals don't really help with anything other to see if you're doing the same effort, as for a given power, you're going to do the loop in exactly the same time, no matter what your gearing is (if you ignore the aerodynamic and weight differences). The three tests to do would be: 1. Max speed (for hardest gear) 2. Steepest hill you can get up (to see what the lowest gear does for you) 3. Standard deviation of cadence on a rolling route (to see what the jumps in numbers of gears makes a difference to). I admire your efforts, and your honesty in admitting the data didn't really help!
We did tabulate the data and the max power and speed more or less made sense as you would age expected. But it still was not totally clear. Thanks for watching!
Curious about the clothing layers you wore on a clearly subzero day. I’m getting into cycling (e-bike initially to get fit) and clothing is a concern for recreational use, and commuting. Perhaps you’ve done a video on this already? If so, please reference or reply to my question. Thank you again, excellent content, hope to buy a used Brompton next year.
LOL, it's a very good question. We are absolute fans of Norrona gear (no sponsorship at all, just personal preference), that day I had Norrona pants and a Norrona ski jacket on, no doubt with a. few layers from them underneath. They look expensive but they last and last!
@@brilliantbikes What type of clothing material? Can you please describe more in detail for top/bottom/hands/feet & head? Each layer specifically? Trying to see what’s effective. I’m new to cycling in cold for commuting & exercise. Good future video topic!
I have a 6 speed with a 44 chainring, but to be honest, living in Buxton, Derbyshire, an even lower first gear would be more useful to me than a high top gear, as I just donder down hills and along the flats anyway, I'm in no rush nowadays. I know you mention maintenance as a potential issue regarding choosing a Brompton, but lets face it, even a six speed Brompton is ruggedly simple in cycling terms, and the worst thing that's ever happened to me is being stuck in a ratio.... I can live with that. My way of thinking is, as long as it's not massively over complicating things, or massively adding weight, it's far better to have another option, but not need it, rather than needing , or wanting it, but not having it.
Song = Grinding the Gears = Jamie Webster, having seen your review one would conclude the ideal bike would be a six speed P -Line so obvious what Brompton should introduce with their next launch , they could call it Brilliant range ,
@@brilliantbikes One has to have at least one good idea in one’s lifetime, light bulb moment, actually that would be a good name for a business, maybe having two good ideas in one lifetime is pushing it , thought the song went well with the video,sorry I know self praise is No praise.
Good idea. I wanted mine to ride comfy like dutch bike or cruiser style. I went for H and never looked back. I’m 5’8” not a racer and did not want to be hunched over. I highly recommend trying at a shop before you order, it’s and expensive purchase to get wrong!
@@grahammcdonald Agree with everything you said. I too went to my local Brompton Junction and tried both H- and M-bar bikes and left with H-bars even though I am only 5'6". The only caveat is that you usually get an extended (6cm longer) seatpost with an H-bar Brommie and believe it or not this dramatically effected my ability to easily fold and unfold the bike. So much so I had to go back to the Junction and buy a standard height seatpost for $56 more and now it folds just fine! Its amazing what 6cm of metal will do!
@@b.griffin317 Interesting! My bike came with a 21” seatpost I have it here out as I switched to a lighter Ti (meaning titanium) one from eBay, same length. Brompton in the past made an official ti seatpost but they’re hard to find. This copy one works well for me.
@@b.griffin317 a LOT. at least half, bit probably more like 2/3rds as the steel one’s metal is so thick. The ti one has a little flex, which I think adds more suspension, which adds to comfy.
Actually it's easy to mod a 2 speed for more gears. I wonder that would make a difference compared to the P line. Or is the P line also feel faster because it's lighter. I've heard from many people that the lightness of the T and P is felt at the initial acceleration from stop, but after that you can't feel it. Of course you can feel when lifting it. 2 speed with a 5 speed cassette and matching shifters. 11-21t ? dependent if you change the derailleur to handle a bigger cog.
Looks a mighty cold day Hannah. I have a 50 tooth on my 3 speed and don’t use my highest gear very often as high speed is of little interest. I have bought a 44 tooth ring plus new spider to give me a more comfortable top gear. I cant justify the cost in buying either a 4 or 6 speed so lets hope that will make it more useable.
I went for the 3 (one of the last utility C) and while it meets my everyday needs, I regret not choosing the 6 because I am having so much fun I want to go further afield. I would love the 4 but it’s an entirely different price category.
Just a note ~ I have two Bromptons, a 3 and a 6..., I travel for business and have carried both in air travel in or as gate-baggage (in a carry bag). My 3-speed is absolutely indestructible 😋 - my 6, not so much 😑. For around town etc, 6 would likely work wonderfully for you! I like to travel and take my bike with me - and stay a few days extra for the adventure of small touring etc., and the 3-speed is perfect for that - and no worries about the gears getting beaten up by the baggage handlers! 😎
@@swissthun60 Thank you for that observation. Do you know what modification one would have to do to convert a 6- into a 3-speed? What difference in parts would need to be removed (other than the "+/-" shifter)? This is a question for the audience as much as anyone.
3 speed is the way better choice in my opinion. You have so much less to go wrong, and less to maintain. The simplicity of the 3 speed is so underrated.
I recently bought a 6 speed explore: and went for the -12% gearing option. I'm very happy with the bike, and that choice. I find that the majority of the time, I am using 2- and 2+. Top speed is not what I am looking for. This video is nonetheless interesting, and, maybe a lighter, P-line 4 speed would suit me ( with the -12% option)....
Like yourself I’ve found it hard to spin out a 6 speed unless it’s down a steep hill. My Chpt3 is nicer to ride due to weight, and I prefer a traditional gear shift rather than a pause for hub gears. However my 2 speed is the easiest for a flat commute with a steep hill at the end… the 2 and 4 spin out easily. However as all Brompton’s they get twitchy at speed… so maybe that not a bad thing. Personally I’d go 4 speed or 2 speed for a commuter and a 6 for touring due to range of gears and not concerned of weight… a 10kg bike is a dream to carry over bridges in a Train station - where surprisingly an extra 2/3 kgs on a 6 speed makes a big difference!
My choice would be none of the above as I have long had a ten speed setup on my Bromptons, all of which I find useful. This comprises a vintage SA Sprinter 5 speed hub and home-brewed double chain ring and changer.
I don't mind making things difficult for myself. My favourite Brompton was my 2 speed so what I would like to do is find a range of gears so have 4 sprockets, 2 either side of a rear hub and if possible a rear quick release. That is my thought experiment.
I know what I want. I would like a T or P line in a 6 -8 speed. I need a light bike to get up the very steep hills where I live in SoCal. Waiting for that to happen. In the mean time, I will enjoy your informative and funny videos.
Do you have experience with 6-speeds in the area where you live? I assume you want more gears on the lower end given your situation. Obviously if you really wanted to, and were willing to spend, you could just buy a T or P and install, or get a bike mechanic to install, any drivetrain you wanted on your Brompton (though given the low ground clearance for 16" wheels you'd probably want to look into internal hub gear with a fairly large rear sprocket and small front one over a massive cassette and derailleur). People have mod'd their Bromptons to pretty crazy extremes over the years.
don't bother waiting. just modify. Brompton will be slow to innovate. there's plenty of parts out there. nowadays you can fit 7 cogs on a Wheelset. A range of 11t-32t with the right derailleur. maybe 80 bucks for the cogs, 200 for the derailleur, 50 for a 11speed chain, 80 for a sram shifter and you're all set. or you could get a Birdy lol
I have a 3 speed and I felt some difficulties on the hill so I changed the cog for a 15 teeth instead of the 13. Now I feel climbing the hill more comfy and if I need speed I will ride my race bike 😉
To the 3-speed owners in the audience: Do you think the 3-speed would benefit from a slightly larger rear gear or smaller front sprocket (however you want to look at that)?
I have the brilliant and practical 3 speed and changed the chainring for a 44T and the rear sprocket for a 14T, the changes have helped with hills and headwinds.
I think next time staggering it would make sense! TBH the last one was the 6 speed and I put so much power in as it was getting dark! Thanks for watching and the suggestion
Another 6-speed C line rider here with 44t up front. I really think the Explore spec should have 44t as standard; it's by far the most useful range for the majority of riders.
For the effort and detail you put into these videos Brompton should really be paying you :-). I still dont know if I should get the 3 or 6 speed C line for a city commuting. I plan to try them this weekend.
I think it didnt work because you try to measure too many variables at the same time. Next time you should try to keep the same output power during the loop and measure time only. Then try to keep the same power and measure avge speed.
Both myself & later my wife, when we went to buy our Bromptons, the main dealers refused permission for test rides. (Evans) We were told that we could pedal round the shop. We both bought E bikes by the way, so spending £6K & no test was a bit "off". But neither of us regret our 6 speeds. Trouble was that there are no other dealers near us. However, If having any Brompton I could not imagine NOT getting 6 speed. My wife agrees
i am getting a headache reading about 6 speed, chainring, top gear and such. i wish to know if you have any idea why when i travel about 10km, i feel the Brommie is more heavier? it feels more difficult to pedal. my legs feel still energetic and i still want to cycle another 10, 20km but i just feel its heavier. is it the chain? tyres are pumped well
In 2019, as a 72 old year pensioner, during high Covid19, I used an other vise closed down and free day to look for a Brompton for travel purposes. So it was only the "color" which was in question, when I bought my Top, yellow flame painted, black version, "SuperlightM6LXBrompton", with an M type stem post (which today is down to 9,35 kilo, and still with its mudguards)! I have used it going up a very steep serpentine hill, where I had to walk at times, even in the low gear! And going down again at top speed, and often having to brake fully down, to be able to pass the "cattle prevention bars", crossing the road. My Brompton never let me down! But on the other hand, would I expect even a 4 speed titanium bike, for a double price, to be as pleasing as mine? I will change my last bought lightweight parts, to give it, maybe
@@brilliantbikes And still with the original mudguards of course! I have found out that the clamps holding the, original titanium stays on my bike are really "heavy metal" and I then found a set of similar "carbon clamps", with small black bolts, + two aluminum holders for the mudguards to hold them on the frame, from China. I advised the Brompton Factory to eventually do the same, as an easy measure to make the bike lighter from the Factory (I haven't had the time to actually change them, as I need to remove the wheels)? I have a carbon M handlebar to be changed from the original, as I have also done with most of the possible nuts, bolts and the security discs, some of the brake parts/bolts, into titanium. Also a titanium seat post and lightweight seat clamp. I expect to come below 9 kilo at a time, and then not so far above a 4 gear T line, with mudguards, as I have seen from a film on TH-cam, making his T line less heavy, from well over 8 kilo! Finn. Denmark
Good video as ever. Biggest mistake Brompton ever made was to stop making a SL without 6 Spd. I would never upgrade from mine - just hope it never gets stolen, as I could not replace it :)
@@b.griffin317 SL = super light. So I effectively have the previous incarnation of the P line with Titanium parts, but at the time it came with 6 spd. If it gets stolen I can’t replace it now and think the 4spd would be too limiting in hilly situations as it does not have the range - I tour quite a bit. So now all they leave me with is a standard all steel version if I want 6spd again.
@Sailing Sexy sure - thanks for your insight. Yes we all have our different needs and depends on the areas you cycle in. For example I cycle in places where there are hills so lower gearing on the way up and higher gearing in the way down with the 6spd helps out a lot. I just wish Brompton gave the option of both the 4spd and 6spd so we can choose. It is not just about lightness either - the Titanium forks and rear triangle gives you a better ride IMHO.
@Sailing Sexy ok great - ok I should give it a try. Like you I gave up my car 10 years ago and my Brompton goes everywhere with me. Took it to India last month - it was a blast! Also given your name I also sail, so additionally take it on my boat - it is invaluable. Enjoy 😊
Given: A. You can't max out the top of the 6-speed B. The lower end of its gear range is where it shines and C. The difference between the the 6- and 3-speed is only the the rear sprocket (13 and 16 sprockets for the 6-speed, 13 only for the 3-, with 50 teeth in front either way) Then why not the 3-speed but with a larger rear sprocket (or smaller front)? I have a 6-speed and basically never need to switch the 2-speed, left-hand shifter. By keeping the left shifter in "-" I find "1" on the right to be good for hills, "2" for starting and stopping and lower speed environments and the "3" the the maximum usable speed when I have a flat straightaway (just spinning out every time I try "+3"). I have knick named these "hill," "street" and "road" gears respectively. I cannot see a reason to change the left shifter to "+" (the 13-tooth rear sprocket) for any practical purpose. What say you fine Bromptoners?
C: the difference is not only the sprockets. The hub is different as well. They use a wide range hub on the 6 speed, that means the gap between the gears are bigger and they compensate with the 2 sprockets.
If that's the case then you could physically remove the derailleur and use a single sprocket ( with suitable spacer ) I'm not sure that it would save much in weight.
@@devjon123 yes you could. You can buy the sprockets for a single speed Brompton. th-cam.com/video/RGPrueyTFAY/w-d-xo.html You can see on this video from 5 minutes afterwards. You will need a new single speed tensonier as well.
Get a 44T chainring and all the 6 gears then become usable. The stock 50T 6 speed setup seems to only work if where you live is completely flat or you have legs the size of tree trunks.
I have 2 bromptons the 4 speed p-line and the 6 speed c-line. Both have standard 50 tooth chainrings. I find my top speed is actually faster on the six-speed c-line. I am not too fit btw. Love your videos and wish i could order stuff from ya but i guess brompton wont even allow their UK dealers to ship even tyres overseas 😢 i tried with bags too - system doesn’t allow shipping overseas. Such a pity…dealers like yourself should be supported
Nice video! Did you manage to maintain same effort (same wattage) trought each run and compare the resulting speed ? Never used a power meter, but I guess this could be a good way to set a comparision parameter
@@brilliantbikes I like it for simplicity, cost, and weight. I usually keep it in first gear as it’s great for cruising the city. I only use second speed if I want to occasionally go faster. Its a reduced speed.
The aftermarket and other trifold manufacturers offer derailleur gearing with 5- to 9-speed cassettes and IGHs with 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 11 or 16 ratios. Compared to that, the factory offerings in your video seem...quaint.
Great video. Probably a little optimistic to expect a scientific outcome. As you say, test riding is the best experiment. I'm happy with my 6 speed explore.... confident it could get me up most hills. Isn't the 4 speed only available on the P line though? So not a fair comparison anyway just in terms of gears as the bike is lighter. Keep the videos coming, your Brompton content is excellent!
Thank you so much for watching! I’m a scientist by training and expected that I could make some sense of the numbers…. In the bed your right, it’s ride them! And yes the 4 speed was out P Lone
Great Video. I have the 6spd with the 44T chainring. It feels like the second hardest gear is too hard, while the 3rd hardest gear is too soft for leisure riding on zero grade. I really miss the 3rd hardest gear when I had the 50T chainring on as it felt perfect for a leisure/0 grade ride. Can you please advise on which leisure gear you enjoy across all the spds / chainring options? Would make for a fantastic video! Cheers!
Based on the number of loops, we can compare the efficiency of the different models based on the power required to maintain speed. In terms of efficiency, the order would be as follows: P Line, Urban, Utility, and Explore. Congratulations on burning 1443 calories while making the video. That's quite an impressive effort!
I enjoyed this due to your charming presentation, but it was neither a comparison, nor credible, since it was all about your legs. For all I know the 4 bikes might have differed in weight & chainrings & tires & pressure - none of that was laid out for apples to apples comparison. All that matters was the measurable & calculable, such as the 'gear inches' of each gear combo, which you omitted. It is titled, after all "gearing test".
We agree! We really thought we’d get some useful measurements! But in the end I just had a nice day riding bikes! Thanks for watching! We will try harder next time!
Lol. We were too! I wanted food analytics but it failed me! I think it comes down to what you want to do with the bike and how you feel with the different gearing
You need to repeat the test on different days, and perhaps narrow it down to 4 and 6 speeds since the 3 speed is discontinued, but I was rooting for 4 speed ... just so I have an excuse to tell the wife why I need another Brompton :)
The P Line is awesome with its lightness, so it feels like it accelerates so quickly! Looking forward to round 2 - just not sure how to do a better comparison!
The video is beautiful Probably the most beautiful setting for any cycling video I've ever seen. Right up there with the wild videos by Lachlan Morten, Ronnie Romance, and Lael Wilcox
I haven’t looked through your results but notice that you don’t talk about efficiency. The pure derailleur geared bikes will always be more efficient (about as close to 100% as you can get) across their whole gear range. The hub gears will be much lossier when not in the mid gear (which is very close to 1:1, i.e. not really a ‘gear’ as such). The top ratios of a hub gear are usually woefully lossy. As much as 15% of your pedalling effort is lost to friction inside the hub rather than propelling you down the road. That will make it commensurately harder to ‘spin out’ in top.
poor H... cycle until mascara all runny ahhahahahaha but it is not very a proper test because by the time you reach Explore series, you are already abit tired Personally i previously own 6speed with 52T oval chain ring... i rarely spin out and i can easily achieve 32-34km/h i recently change to 4 speed with 56T oval chain ring *much much lighter bike at 9kg i can spin out and i take more effort to achieve the same speed as per my 6 speed but i want the lightness of the bike ... so it was a toss
![Explaining Brompton Gearing - [Including P & T Line]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/7uVwMx9OZ94/mqdefault.jpg)
My Brompton is a 6 speed. Changed to 44T. Perfect for hills, fine for the flats. On standard gearing, spin-out downhill was around 30mph. On the 44T it is around 25mph. But in neither case, on the flat, do I want to be trying to attain or maintain those speeds! With a gentle following wind, 17-20 on the flat is a sustainable gait. I try and have a following wind as often as possible.
I would do the same gear change if i had a 6 speed for the exact reasons you give. 👍
Sounds perfect!
I have a 2013 M6L with a 44T chain ring, and a 2022 Ti 4-speed with 50T chain ring. There's about a 4.5k/9 lb weight advantage for the Ti. The M6L is a better climber, but if the terrain is flat (and on the flats) the Ti is just a faster bike. I would choose the M6L for Seattle, Sydney (AUS), and the Redding/Woking/Reigate UK areas, and the Ti for London/Cambridge, San Jose CA, and Gothenburg (SWE) areas. (I've ridden a Brompton in all of these locations plus more.)
The light weight of the Ti 4-speed makes it a joy to tote around, while toting the M6L through the London Metro is cumbersome and tiring. As others have noted, I wouldn't choose to ride either bike faster than 20 mph... the Brompton design is more prone to flying over the handlebars and breaking a collar bone or worse than a regular bicycle (don't ask me how I know). They will go fast but aren't designed for racing/speed but instead to offer a reasonably good ride for commuting and touring at 10 to 16 mph.
Hi, where did you buy the 44t . . . I have just bought a Brompton C Line Explore with 6 speeds and I am thinking of reducing the front drivetrain. Thank you
I have an A Line Brompton, 3 gear Sturmey Archer hub... It's just perfect! I love it. I use it for commuting: The train station is about 4 miles away, not really hilly, smooth riding. In the city, I use it to visit patients and customers, driving a car in the city sucks. Traffic jams...And nowhere to park your car. But my Brommie does the job. And I can put it under my desk in the office! 😊
Thank you for making this video, your commitment to enlightening us all is admirable!
I've got a 6 speed C line and a 4 speed P line, I've also had a 3 speed. My 6 speed gets the most use and I've put a 44 chainring on because, like you, I couldn't spin out in top gear and at those sorts of speeds I'm probably better off freewheeling downhill instead. I find a lower 1st gear more useful than a high 6th gear for when I'm touring.
My 4 speed P Line is superb for short swift rides in the city, the titanium forks and rear along with more supple tyres than the Marathon plus on my 6 speed make it ideal for what I use it for.
I'd agree completely with your suggestion to take a test ride, the gearing choice is as important to me as the handlebar type.
Many thanks! And thanks for watching!
Thanks for another great video. My wife and I (early seniors) have had 6 speed 44T Bromptons for 13 years. Mine was the super light while hers was a standard steel frame and forks. The 6 speeds allowed us to climb most hills and we rarely spun out in top gear. More recently we were fortunate to purchase two t-line urban bikes and the weight and gearing difference has been remarkable. We can easily spin out in top gear --due to the reduced weight and while we miss the lower gear on some quite steep hills the reduced weight makes all the difference. We can climb as easily as with the 6 speeds. So admitting riding a t-line is incredible and still quite rare, we find the 4 speed gearing more than adequate for cycling distances of 50km or more. Perhaps the biggest change is remembering there is only gear changing on the right side of the handle bars. Our next test will be to do some gentle touring to see if 4 speeds on a T-line are fine to tour with. We expect so.
Oh they do sound lovely! Can’t wait to take one for a ride!
Wow 2 T lines ❤ me and my Mrs have 6 speed c line but one day we will hopefully upgrade to the T line eventually. Although I’m very pleased with the c line or m6L I have. Such fun
Enjoy touring the T lines.
The location was really beautiful, especially with the frost on the ground and the mist.
The Brompton's were clearly a more comfortable form of transport than a broomstick...
Now a flying Brompton Broomstick that sounds like an awesome futuristic invention 😀
I got the M6L. I remember struggling to spin out even on steep declines hitting almost 30mph. Seemed a bit pointless to me, as even a small pot hole going that speed with 16" wheels is going to very bad news. Anyway there's far too many hills round here so swapped the chainring for 44T and it's much more usable now as can take on more hills. Spins out lower mph now, 22-24mph which is fine with me as I'd rather freewheel downhill and rest my legs. If I wanted a speed machine I'd get a road bike.
I think you are right! It totally depends on what you want to do with the bike and it can be a little worrying going too quick key down hill on our little wheels
Thank you for your video. I like this type of content and your dedication. I have a S6L-X that I converted to a S9L-X with the help of my bicycle shop owner. It’s fantastic ! I have a lot of serious hills in my area and with this new gear ratio i ‘m able to go uphill and being gentle with my knees. I have 3 rears sprockets (19-15-12) and a 39T chainring. My top speed is a little less than 30 KMPH (18 MPH)
Sounds like an awesome upgrade! Thanks for the suggestion and for watching!
Really appreciate the work you put in making this comparison. 🙏🏻
Many thanks and thanks for watching!
Thanks very much for this test. I switched from 6 gear to P Line with 4 gear. I changed the the front gear to 44 and the 1st rear gear to 21. Now it is fantastic for touring with Hills. The Top Speed is lower but not important for me. My wife rides the P Line electric and is limited to 25km/h which is easy for me to reach.
It’s nice to hear that a 21 tooth sprocket works!
Thanks for watching!
I've ridden a six speed with 44 chainring and a SwytchKit for years - it climbs walls! Just bought an electric P Line and hate the 18 tooth first gear - far too high so all my local steep hills kill me! Replaced 1st and 2nd gear with 21 and 17 tooth sprockets from a SunRace cassette on Amazon - almost perfect.
@@richardnumber1I feel like I need this mod, can you share the link for which SunRace cassette you purchased for the 21t and 17t? Any issues with clearance?
What a workout! I would've left my lungs right there at the side of the road. I ADORE my 6 gears. I even opted for the 44T chainring after trying the standard 50T for about 3 months. Live in Mexico City, and the streets are not in the best shape. There are also a lot of underpasses, overpasses, and some long roads that do not appear to be uphill BUT THEY ARE! Since I'm not in the best of physical shape either, so the 6 speeds are a MUST for me. And a good, resistant set of tires.
It was a great day of riding, just sorry we did not get some better data! Next time!
I love your videos and your sense of humor. I also loooooove my Brompton
Thank you and thank you for watching!
I find my 6speed/44t gives a great range for all my needs. I can get up steep hills, I can do the Thursday club runs and I can tour/go shopping with a big bag at the front! I’m a happy bunny 😂
I agree I love my 6 speed! Thanks for watching!
Really enjoyable and interesting video. Gorgeous scenery too - made even more entrancing by the frost and mist.
Thank you so much for watching! It was a lovely day, although a little cold!
Appreciate the effort that went into this video.
Many thanks! It was fun! Just wish the analytics told us a bit more
May 2017, I’m a commuter, it’s not a big distance but does have a medium hill. I wanted it as light as possible.
I visited the Brompton shop in London and they allowed me to try some Bromptons out. Testing the 3 heights (I’m 5’8” and went for the highest, for a more upright ride, and wide seat, more comfy)
Before going, I was all set to get the single speed ; lightest, trouble free, but I realised that an extra gear didn’t add much weight, and you have to have the chain tensioners anyway.
The 3-speed hub felt inefficient and noisy and added weight, click click click, couldn’t live with that; so that was the 3 & 6 out the running.
I went 2-speed: “Gearing - 2-speed, -18%” in superlite in fact.
Been loving it ever since. 1st take off gear, going, hit 2. Perfect for me. Any faster I’d hurt myself more.
The 4-speed wasn’t out when I was buying, I’d have been tempted with that I imagine.
We also like the simplicity of the 2 speed and now the 4, so maybe it’s an option for next time 😀
I agree and I made the same choice. I have always felt how inefficient those IGHs are.
Thank You for the video. Very insightful. I have both a 6 speed C Line with 44T ring and 4 speed P Line. Love the P Line for quick fast loops around the city.
Many thanks for watching! I’m still surprised by the lightness of the P Line
I have been researching buying a Brompton and your series of videos have been invaluable. Thank you 🙏
Thanks for watching and your kind comments - there's plenty of new stuff to cover (4 vs 12 speed for example) so keep watching (or suggesting ideas)
Thank you. On the cusp of buying an electric P Line Urban with Roller Rack 😁
My Brompton was originally a 6-speed and while it was with yourselves for a service, you kindly converted it into a 3-speed and I couldn't be happier. It simplified maintenance massively.
Glad to hear this since I just ordered the 3 speed.
LOVE the outtakes! 🤣😂😛- I have the 4-speed PLine Electric - think I made the right choice!
They electric is such fun!
You are adorable! I love your videos, you effort to be thorough, your candor, your out takes.
Another very helpful and enlightening video Hannah, thanks to you and the production team for another great contribution to the Brompton community. 👍😃
Thank you for watching! I just wish we’d managed to make some sense of the data! Many be next time!
I always enjoy your reviews
Thank you. It was a bit of a mixed result!
Very good. I think the best advice is to go and try one.
We tried so hard to get some analytics too help and by the end just decided (we agree!), just rude them to decide 😀.
Love my two speed Brompton
They are lovely, light and simple!
Thanks for watching!
C Line, 6 speed, Black Lacquer. (Classic bike and beautiful frame) - Love the videos!
Many thanks! And thanks for watching!
Thanks for your wonderful infectious personalty video. I have two Brompton bikes, both six speeds, one with high ratio and one low ratio. ❤
Thanks so much for the lovely comment and for watching! Sounds like the best for all riding conditions!
I just love the simplicity of the 2 speed. So much fun.
We agree! Thanks for watching!
No you didn’t.
I live in Central London, the three speed does the job whereas my daughter resides in hilly Crouch End. So I gave her my six speed Superlight.
That’s very kind of you 😀. We agree it totally depends what you want the bike for
My 44T M3 was over geared for touring so I fitted a 32T/22T double. The chain can by kicked from 32T to 22T but has to be manually put back. Now I can go up most hills (e.g. the 33% Wrynose Pass in the Lake District, England). Might try 36T/22T for extra speed.
I have 4 Brompton bikes. The 24.14 Kilometers per hour speed limit on my electric Brompton becomes a handicap in the USA, I frequently pedal just above that speed limit. My six speed black edition has the best gear ratio but still does not allow me to reach and sustain speeds just above 32.19 kilometers per hour. My new P-Line ultralight is worse than my black edition, I am slower, however I do enjoy the fact it is lightweight. Thank you for your time and effort producing such a great content. I already installed a bigger front-sprocket in my P-line but considering to go bigger.
Many thanks for watching! Oh enjoy the bigger chain ring!
Many thanks. Really interesting video. Lovely scenery too.
Many thanks for watching, it was a lovely winters day
Had them all Hannah !! My favourite is the P line Gearing … now a Brg P Line would be ace 😊
I would change the headline to this video to .... Brompton Urban v Utility v Explore or Brompton 2 speed v 3 speed v 6 speed because i could not find this video it just popped up on my feed................. It all depends on The city you live in , Your physical ability and whether you are planning to take the Brompton to other areas , cities countries etc .
Many thanks for the suggestion and for watching! Yes it totally depends on where you live and what you plan to do with it
I got an M6L and in all reality all I use is the middle gear of the hub and up/down. Would prefer a 2 speed based on this and losing the hub
A two speed is a great option as is it lighter and brilliant for commuting. It’s an easy change from 6 to 2
I have a six speed and love to ride full steam everywhere, I can’t get it to spin out in 6 only down big hills 😀
Love it
I’m also a fan of my 6 speed! Thanks for watching!
What sort of speed are you doing before this spins out?
I started my Brompton life with a 3-speed, then progressed to a 6-speed electric. Subsequently replaced the rear wheel on my acoustic 3-speed with a wide ratio hub.
What hub did you choose might I ask?
Many thanks for watching.
Was it a BWR?
@@b.griffin317 Brompton's own wide-ratio
Hello,
Interesting video... I must admit my two speed was fine when I was commuting, but now I would prefer a six speed...
Take care.
Paul,,
That’s an easy upgrade, new rear wheel and add the hub gears.
Thanks for watching
@@brilliantbikes Excellent, I'll be in touch...
I agree, doing one ride after another tiredness was probably a component in confusing results. For me, a very average older rider, spin out is rarely a problem, but the hills are always a problem. I will always choose the lowest gear ratios available for any bike.
Thanks for watching!
I know I keep trying to work out the best way to compare!
The power pedals don't really help with anything other to see if you're doing the same effort, as for a given power, you're going to do the loop in exactly the same time, no matter what your gearing is (if you ignore the aerodynamic and weight differences). The three tests to do would be:
1. Max speed (for hardest gear)
2. Steepest hill you can get up (to see what the lowest gear does for you)
3. Standard deviation of cadence on a rolling route (to see what the jumps in numbers of gears makes a difference to).
I admire your efforts, and your honesty in admitting the data didn't really help!
We did tabulate the data and the max power and speed more or less made sense as you would age expected. But it still was not totally clear.
Thanks for watching!
What a cracking video. Thanks.
Thank you, I’m still a bit disappointed the analysis I’ve don’t show a clear trend!
Curious about the clothing layers you wore on a clearly subzero day. I’m getting into cycling (e-bike initially to get fit) and clothing is a concern for recreational use, and commuting.
Perhaps you’ve done a video on this already? If so, please reference or reply to my question.
Thank you again, excellent content, hope to buy a used Brompton next year.
LOL, it's a very good question. We are absolute fans of Norrona gear (no sponsorship at all, just personal preference), that day I had Norrona pants and a Norrona ski jacket on, no doubt with a. few layers from them underneath. They look expensive but they last and last!
@@brilliantbikes What type of clothing material? Can you please describe more in detail for top/bottom/hands/feet & head? Each layer specifically? Trying to see what’s effective. I’m new to cycling in cold for commuting & exercise.
Good future video topic!
Excellent video
Thank you and thank you for watching!
I have a 6 speed with a 44 chainring, but to be honest, living in Buxton, Derbyshire, an even lower first gear would be more useful to me than a high top gear, as I just donder down hills and along the flats anyway, I'm in no rush nowadays.
I know you mention maintenance as a potential issue regarding choosing a Brompton, but lets face it, even a six speed Brompton is ruggedly simple in cycling terms, and the worst thing that's ever happened to me is being stuck in a ratio.... I can live with that.
My way of thinking is, as long as it's not massively over complicating things, or massively adding weight, it's far better to have another option, but not need it, rather than needing , or wanting it, but not having it.
Agreed they are kind of easy to maintain. They Hank you for watching and for your comments!
Hello. WIll you do a review of the T line Urban in the future?
Yes as soon as we can get our hands on one 😀
Song = Grinding the Gears = Jamie Webster, having seen your review one would conclude the ideal bike would be a six speed P -Line so obvious what Brompton should introduce with their next launch , they could call it Brilliant range ,
😂 thanks! Great idea!
@@brilliantbikes One has to have at least one good idea in one’s lifetime, light bulb moment, actually that would be a good name for a business, maybe having two good ideas in one lifetime is pushing it , thought the song went well with the video,sorry I know self praise is No praise.
Brilliant: please do a review on what it is like to ride various heights of handlebars.
Good idea. I wanted mine to ride comfy like dutch bike or cruiser style. I went for H and never looked back. I’m 5’8” not a racer and did not want to be hunched over. I highly recommend trying at a shop before you order, it’s and expensive purchase to get wrong!
@@grahammcdonald Agree with everything you said. I too went to my local Brompton Junction and tried both H- and M-bar bikes and left with H-bars even though I am only 5'6".
The only caveat is that you usually get an extended (6cm longer) seatpost with an H-bar Brommie and believe it or not this dramatically effected my ability to easily fold and unfold the bike. So much so I had to go back to the Junction and buy a standard height seatpost for $56 more and now it folds just fine! Its amazing what 6cm of metal will do!
@@b.griffin317 Interesting! My bike came with a 21” seatpost I have it here out as I switched to a lighter Ti (meaning titanium) one from eBay, same length.
Brompton in the past made an official ti seatpost but they’re hard to find. This copy one works well for me.
@@grahammcdonald how much lighter is the T post?
@@b.griffin317 a LOT. at least half, bit probably more like 2/3rds as the steel one’s metal is so thick. The ti one has a little flex, which I think adds more suspension, which adds to comfy.
Actually it's easy to mod a 2 speed for more gears. I wonder that would make a difference compared to the P line. Or is the P line also feel faster because it's lighter. I've heard from many people that the lightness of the T and P is felt at the initial acceleration from stop, but after that you can't feel it. Of course you can feel when lifting it.
2 speed with a 5 speed cassette and matching shifters. 11-21t ? dependent if you change the derailleur to handle a bigger cog.
Looks a mighty cold day Hannah. I have a 50 tooth on my 3 speed and don’t use my highest gear very often as high speed is of little interest. I have bought a 44 tooth ring plus new spider to give me a more comfortable top gear. I cant justify the cost in buying either a 4 or 6 speed so lets hope that will make it more useable.
It’s was a little cold! I had most of my ski gear on, so stayed warm with the pedalling.
Thanks for watching and enjoy your Brompton 😀
I went for the 3 (one of the last utility C) and while it meets my everyday needs, I regret not choosing the 6 because I am having so much fun I want to go further afield. I would love the 4 but it’s an entirely different price category.
I love my 3 speed👍 I never want a 6 speed with all the extra problems.
The 3-speed actually has a slightly wider gear range than the 4-speed, so I doubt you're missing anything.
Just a note ~ I have two Bromptons, a 3 and a 6..., I travel for business and have carried both in air travel in or as gate-baggage (in a carry bag). My 3-speed is absolutely indestructible 😋 - my 6, not so much 😑. For around town etc, 6 would likely work wonderfully for you! I like to travel and take my bike with me - and stay a few days extra for the adventure of small touring etc., and the 3-speed is perfect for that - and no worries about the gears getting beaten up by the baggage handlers! 😎
@@swissthun60 Thank you for that observation. Do you know what modification one would have to do to convert a 6- into a 3-speed? What difference in parts would need to be removed (other than the "+/-" shifter)? This is a question for the audience as much as anyone.
3 speed is the way better choice in my opinion. You have so much less to go wrong, and less to maintain. The simplicity of the 3 speed is so underrated.
I recently bought a 6 speed explore: and went for the -12% gearing option. I'm very happy with the bike, and that choice. I find that the majority of the time, I am using 2- and 2+. Top speed is not what I am looking for. This video is nonetheless interesting, and, maybe a lighter, P-line 4 speed would suit me ( with the -12% option)....
Many thanks for watching! I’m impressed with the light weight and you can feel it when you ride them. I’d try to take one for a test ride.
Like yourself I’ve found it hard to spin out a 6 speed unless it’s down a steep hill. My Chpt3 is nicer to ride due to weight, and I prefer a traditional gear shift rather than a pause for hub gears. However my 2 speed is the easiest for a flat commute with a steep hill at the end… the 2 and 4 spin out easily. However as all Brompton’s they get twitchy at speed… so maybe that not a bad thing.
Personally I’d go 4 speed or 2 speed for a commuter and a 6 for touring due to range of gears and not concerned of weight… a 10kg bike is a dream to carry over bridges in a Train station - where surprisingly an extra 2/3 kgs on a 6 speed makes a big difference!
ayrıntılı ve kaliteli içerik için teşekkür ederim 👍👍
Thank you so much and thank you for watching!
@@brilliantbikes Thank you, I also ride a bike and produce content. 🚴♀🚴♀🚴♂🚴♂👍👍
My choice would be none of the above as I have long had a ten speed setup on my Bromptons, all of which I find useful. This comprises a vintage SA Sprinter 5 speed hub and home-brewed double chain ring and changer.
I don't mind making things difficult for myself. My favourite Brompton was my 2 speed so what I would like to do is find a range of gears so have 4 sprockets, 2 either side of a rear hub and if possible a rear quick release. That is my thought experiment.
I know what I want. I would like a T or P line in a 6 -8 speed. I need a light bike to get up the very steep hills where I live in SoCal. Waiting for that to happen. In the mean time, I will enjoy your informative and funny videos.
Do you have experience with 6-speeds in the area where you live? I assume you want more gears on the lower end given your situation. Obviously if you really wanted to, and were willing to spend, you could just buy a T or P and install, or get a bike mechanic to install, any drivetrain you wanted on your Brompton (though given the low ground clearance for 16" wheels you'd probably want to look into internal hub gear with a fairly large rear sprocket and small front one over a massive cassette and derailleur). People have mod'd their Bromptons to pretty crazy extremes over the years.
Try a P line with 7 speed after modification
Thank you!
don't bother waiting. just modify. Brompton will be slow to innovate. there's plenty of parts out there.
nowadays you can fit 7 cogs on a Wheelset. A range of 11t-32t with the right derailleur. maybe 80 bucks for the cogs, 200 for the derailleur, 50 for a 11speed chain, 80 for a sram shifter and you're all set. or you could get a Birdy lol
I have a 3 speed and I felt some difficulties on the hill so I changed the cog for a 15 teeth instead of the 13. Now I feel climbing the hill more comfy and if I need speed I will ride my race bike 😉
Many thanks for the suggestion, so glad it helps!
true, i dont know why anyone would need speedy gears on the flats. its a brompton its not meant to be a mini road bike.
To the 3-speed owners in the audience: Do you think the 3-speed would benefit from a slightly larger rear gear or smaller front sprocket (however you want to look at that)?
I find the gear range on the 3 speed fine for 90% of conditions, so a larger or smaller gear would just move the deficiency to the top or bottom.
I used to have a 3 speed Brompton with a 44 chainring and 14 rear cog and I found much better than the original configuration.
I guess it depends where you plan to ride. But sounds like one of the followers had a great suggestion!
I have the brilliant and practical 3 speed and changed the chainring for a 44T and the rear sprocket for a 14T, the changes have helped with hills and headwinds.
Nice on BB team H. Was wondering whether you’d do one each day or two per day to normalise for tiredness.
I think next time staggering it would make sense! TBH the last one was the 6 speed and I put so much power in as it was getting dark! Thanks for watching and the suggestion
Another 6-speed C line rider here with 44t up front. I really think the Explore spec should have 44t as standard; it's by far the most useful range for the majority of riders.
Thanks for watching, and for the comment.
For the effort and detail you put into these videos Brompton should really be paying you :-). I still dont know if I should get the 3 or 6 speed C line for a city commuting. I plan to try them this weekend.
Definitely try them and then I think it becomes an easier choice!
Thanks for watching!
I think it didnt work because you try to measure too many variables at the same time. Next time you should try to keep the same output power during the loop and measure time only. Then try to keep the same power and measure avge speed.
We were thinking a similar thing! Next time!
I have two 6 speed c-line (44x13/16) for everyday use and travelling.
Thanks for watching!
Both myself & later my wife, when we went to buy our Bromptons, the main dealers refused permission for test rides. (Evans) We were told that we could pedal round the shop. We both bought E bikes by the way, so spending £6K & no test was a bit "off". But neither of us regret our 6 speeds. Trouble was that there are no other dealers near us. However, If having any Brompton I could not imagine NOT getting 6 speed. My wife agrees
That’s a shame they did not have a demo bike for you to ride. But really glad you are happy with your 6 speeds
What brand jacket are you wearing? Right smart that!
Thanks! It’s a Norrona ski jacket. It really was cold!
The efficiency of the P Line’s gearing and lighter weight is rather special. My 6 speed feels clunky compared to my P Line.
We agree the P line is amazing for the lightness!
the P line is also a lot more expensive, i rather have the clunkiness but something functional and affordable :D
i am getting a headache reading about 6 speed, chainring, top gear and such. i wish to know if you have any idea why when i travel about 10km, i feel the Brommie is more heavier? it feels more difficult to pedal. my legs feel still energetic and i still want to cycle another 10, 20km but i just feel its heavier. is it the chain? tyres are pumped well
You gotta do more cardio😅
I think you might need to ride more 😀. I do t think they get heavier after 10 km sorry!
In 2019, as a 72 old year pensioner, during high Covid19, I used an other vise closed down and free day to look for a Brompton for travel purposes. So it was only the "color" which was in question, when I bought my Top, yellow flame painted, black version, "SuperlightM6LXBrompton", with an M type stem post (which today is down to 9,35 kilo, and still with its mudguards)!
I have used it going up a very steep serpentine hill, where I had to walk at times, even in the low gear! And going down again at top speed, and often having to brake fully down, to be able to pass the "cattle prevention bars", crossing the road. My Brompton never let me down!
But on the other hand, would I expect even a 4 speed titanium bike, for a double price, to be as pleasing as mine? I will change my last bought lightweight parts, to give it, maybe
Many thanks for watching and for the comments. At 9.35 kg your bike is lighter than the P Line 😀
@@brilliantbikes And still with the original mudguards of course! I have found out that the clamps holding the, original titanium stays on my bike are really "heavy metal" and I then found a set of similar "carbon clamps", with small black bolts, + two aluminum holders for the mudguards to hold them on the frame, from China. I advised the Brompton Factory to eventually do the same, as an easy measure to make the bike lighter from the Factory (I haven't had the time to actually change them, as I need to remove the wheels)?
I have a carbon M handlebar to be changed from the original, as I have also done with most of the possible nuts, bolts and the security discs, some of the brake parts/bolts, into titanium. Also a titanium seat post and lightweight seat clamp.
I expect to come below 9 kilo at a time, and then not so far above a 4 gear T line, with mudguards, as I have seen from a film on TH-cam, making his T line less heavy, from well over 8 kilo! Finn. Denmark
What about 5 speed internal gear ?
It’s on our list. We really wanted to cover the current Brompton gearing.
Many thanks for watching!
Good video as ever. Biggest mistake Brompton ever made was to stop making a SL without 6 Spd. I would never upgrade from mine - just hope it never gets stolen, as I could not replace it :)
SL?
@@b.griffin317 SL = super light. So I effectively have the previous incarnation of the P line with Titanium parts, but at the time it came with 6 spd. If it gets stolen I can’t replace it now and think the 4spd would be too limiting in hilly situations as it does not have the range - I tour quite a bit.
So now all they leave me with is a standard all steel version if I want 6spd again.
@Sailing Sexy sure - thanks for your insight. Yes we all have our different needs and depends on the areas you cycle in. For example I cycle in places where there are hills so lower gearing on the way up and higher gearing in the way down with the 6spd helps out a lot. I just wish Brompton gave the option of both the 4spd and 6spd so we can choose.
It is not just about lightness either - the Titanium forks and rear triangle gives you a better ride IMHO.
@Sailing Sexy ok great - ok I should give it a try. Like you I gave up my car 10 years ago and my Brompton goes everywhere with me. Took it to India last month - it was a blast!
Also given your name I also sail, so additionally take it on my boat - it is invaluable. Enjoy 😊
We have been impressed with the P Line gearing. I’d really recommend taking one for a test ride!
Love my six speed so versatile.. ❤👍🤩🏅🚴
We agree you can go anywhere 😀
In that case why do Brompton make a 2 speed?
Many thanks for watching! It’s a perfect bike if you are looking for lightweight and use on a flat ish commute.
I would like to choose a 12 speed bike for the price of a 3 speed.
Given:
A. You can't max out the top of the 6-speed
B. The lower end of its gear range is where it shines
and
C. The difference between the the 6- and 3-speed is only the the rear sprocket (13 and 16 sprockets for the 6-speed, 13 only for the 3-, with 50 teeth in front either way)
Then why not the 3-speed but with a larger rear sprocket (or smaller front)?
I have a 6-speed and basically never need to switch the 2-speed, left-hand shifter. By keeping the left shifter in "-" I find "1" on the right to be good for hills, "2" for starting and stopping and lower speed environments and the "3" the the maximum usable speed when I have a flat straightaway (just spinning out every time I try "+3"). I have knick named these "hill," "street" and "road" gears respectively. I cannot see a reason to change the left shifter to "+" (the 13-tooth rear sprocket) for any practical purpose.
What say you fine Bromptoners?
C: the difference is not only the sprockets. The hub is different as well. They use a wide range hub on the 6 speed, that means the gap between the gears are bigger and they compensate with the 2 sprockets.
If that's the case then you could physically remove the derailleur and use a single sprocket ( with suitable spacer ) I'm not sure that it would save much in weight.
@@devjon123 yes you could. You can buy the sprockets for a single speed Brompton. th-cam.com/video/RGPrueyTFAY/w-d-xo.html
You can see on this video from 5 minutes afterwards.
You will need a new single speed tensonier as well.
Get a 44T chainring and all the 6 gears then become usable. The stock 50T 6 speed setup seems to only work if where you live is completely flat or you have legs the size of tree trunks.
@@gibbson130 I am considering that as a longer term upgrade, yes. I hear the 6-speed with 44T sprocket becomes a wall climber in 1/- gear.
I have 2 bromptons the 4 speed p-line and the 6 speed c-line. Both have standard 50 tooth chainrings. I find my top speed is actually faster on the six-speed c-line. I am not too fit btw. Love your videos and wish i could order stuff from ya but i guess brompton wont even allow their UK dealers to ship even tyres overseas 😢 i tried with bags too - system doesn’t allow shipping overseas. Such a pity…dealers like yourself should be supported
Thank you! Really glad you enjoy your Brompton’s and sorry we can’t ship to you!
Please Brompton, bring back the 3 speed, so practical! Mind you, there will probably be enough preloved 3 speeds around to outlast my lifetime 🤔😬
We have quite a few left 😀. So I’m sure there will be new around for a while and used for a long time 😀
Nice video! Did you manage to maintain same effort (same wattage) trought each run and compare the resulting speed ? Never used a power meter, but I guess this could be a good way to set a comparision parameter
Yes I think next time we need to fix something! My cadence was more or less the same, but the power differed!
Brilliant Bikes.👍
Thank you 😊
I rode different speed Brompton’s and choose the two speed.
It’s funny the two speed was on my list of a simple light weight Brompton, but that rather got trumped by the 4 speed.
@@brilliantbikes I like it for simplicity, cost, and weight. I usually keep it in first gear as it’s great for cruising the city. I only use second speed if I want to occasionally go faster. Its a reduced speed.
Come fully assembled so don't pay extra for assembly. Easy fold and unfold with quick release
The aftermarket and other trifold manufacturers offer derailleur gearing with 5- to 9-speed cassettes and IGHs with 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 11 or 16 ratios. Compared to that, the factory offerings in your video seem...quaint.
We like quaint, it keeps it simple and perfect for commuting. Thanks for watching!
What is your height
Thanks for watching!
5 foot 6 inches
Great video. Probably a little optimistic to expect a scientific outcome. As you say, test riding is the best experiment. I'm happy with my 6 speed explore.... confident it could get me up most hills. Isn't the 4 speed only available on the P line though? So not a fair comparison anyway just in terms of gears as the bike is lighter. Keep the videos coming, your Brompton content is excellent!
Thank you so much for watching! I’m a scientist by training and expected that I could make some sense of the numbers…. In the bed your right, it’s ride them! And yes the 4 speed was out P Lone
Nice Video
Thank you and thank you for watching!
Great Video.
I have the 6spd with the 44T chainring.
It feels like the second hardest gear is too hard, while the 3rd hardest gear is too soft for leisure riding on zero grade.
I really miss the 3rd hardest gear when I had the 50T chainring on as it felt perfect for a leisure/0 grade ride.
Can you please advise on which leisure gear you enjoy across all the spds / chainring options? Would make for a fantastic video!
Cheers!
I actually have bespoke crank set, with a 40 tooth chain ring and 165 cranks. I love it. And agree it would make a great video!
Based on the number of loops, we can compare the efficiency of the different models based on the power required to maintain speed. In terms of efficiency, the order would be as follows: P Line, Urban, Utility, and Explore.
Congratulations on burning 1443 calories while making the video. That's quite an impressive effort!
Chinese brompton has a external 9speed
If you’re a Brompton fan, will take something out of this though not sure what.
Lol we were there too! My take is it’s your choice what you want to ride!
I enjoyed this due to your charming presentation, but it was neither a comparison, nor credible, since it was all about your legs. For all I know the 4 bikes might have differed in weight & chainrings & tires & pressure - none of that was laid out for apples to apples comparison. All that matters was the measurable & calculable, such as the 'gear inches' of each gear combo, which you omitted. It is titled, after all "gearing test".
We agree! We really thought we’d get some useful measurements! But in the end I just had a nice day riding bikes!
Thanks for watching! We will try harder next time!
Love the effort but very confused 🫤!
Lol. We were too! I wanted food analytics but it failed me! I think it comes down to what you want to do with the bike and how you feel with the different gearing
You need to repeat the test on different days, and perhaps narrow it down to 4 and 6 speeds since the 3 speed is discontinued, but I was rooting for 4 speed ... just so I have an excuse to tell the wife why I need another Brompton :)
Except there is a vibrant market in used Bromptons, and many of those are 3 speed.
The P Line is awesome with its lightness, so it feels like it accelerates so quickly! Looking forward to round 2 - just not sure how to do a better comparison!
You hit 20 mph on the two gear spinout.
That's plenty fast for most casual riders. They tend to go 7-16 mph
The video is beautiful
Probably the most beautiful setting for any cycling video I've ever seen.
Right up there with the wild videos by Lachlan Morten, Ronnie Romance, and Lael Wilcox
Many thanks for watching!
It was a lovely day!!!
can't be any simpler than an S1E 😁
Oh lovely! We agree! Thanks for watching!
I haven’t looked through your results but notice that you don’t talk about efficiency. The pure derailleur geared bikes will always be more efficient (about as close to 100% as you can get) across their whole gear range. The hub gears will be much lossier when not in the mid gear (which is very close to 1:1, i.e. not really a ‘gear’ as such). The top ratios of a hub gear are usually woefully lossy. As much as 15% of your pedalling effort is lost to friction inside the hub rather than propelling you down the road. That will make it commensurately harder to ‘spin out’ in top.
Thank you! And thanks for watching!
You made the mistake of using random number generators aka Garmin vectors.
Ah it’s seemed we did!
I also think I rode them all hard!
Thanks for watching!!!
for me 6 speed always wins.
😀, my trusty favourite too, thank you for watching!
Gear-illas in the mist
Lol! Thanks for watching. Glad I did not spot them!
poor H...
cycle until mascara all runny ahhahahahaha
but it is not very a proper test because by the time you reach Explore series, you are already abit tired
Personally i previously own 6speed with 52T oval chain ring...
i rarely spin out and i can easily achieve 32-34km/h
i recently change to 4 speed with 56T oval chain ring *much much lighter bike at 9kg
i can spin out and i take more effort to achieve the same speed as per my 6 speed
but i want the lightness of the bike ... so it was a toss
Lol! Yup a cold wet day = mascara running! It was fun through! The highest power put it was on the 6 speed…..
@@brilliantbikes next time try the viral Maybeline mascara hahaha .. i heard it is quite permanent hahahahhahaha
No
Thanks for watching
way too over geared for me!
Thanks for watching! It was a fun days riding!
I think I could hear your teeth chattering , it looked so cold .
Lol, I’ve gone skiing with less clothes on…. Thank you for watching!
@@brilliantbikes now I would like to see that video 👍.
People spin out quickly when they are unfit...
Thanks for watching!