Portland's Transit: The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ก.ย. 2024
- A huge shoutout to Ian Stern & Ben Fryback for providing the footage used in this video!
Ben's Twitter: / bfryback
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Hi, my name's Reece. I'm a passionate Creator, Transportation Planner, and Software Developer, interested in rapid transportation all around my home base of Toronto, Canada, as well as the whole world!
Portland has recently eliminated single family housing zoning and eliminated off street city parking requirements. You can now build multifamily on any lot in the city. This should increase density and increase transit.
Shouldn’t there then try to go the vancouver way and try to build mixed used developments but after there build new lines?
@@jam1955 Portland still has
plenty of unused capacity on their light rail system, and a ridiculously high number of low density neighborhoods with stations.
Increasing MAX light rail frequencies and making interventions to improve its speed and capacity, as well as moving the bus network toward a BRT-lite model with fewer, straighter, and more frequent routes, more widely spaced stops, and dedicated bus lanes where possible would be more than enough to handle a very substantial amount of densification and added population, especially if that densification is concentrated within walking distance of LRT stations with ransfers to frequent buses and comes along with commercial/mixed-use development, and those interventions if well implemented would do a whole lot for a very reasonable cost.
Now if they'll address the fact that someone making median income cannot afford to live indoors by setting rent maximums, people who grew up there might not have to move to the midwest or live on the street from the time they graduate high school until they're 40
@@BalooUriza Someone making median income, and the vast, overwhelming majority of residents generally, can afford to live indoors in Portland, as that is necessarily the case considering that - assuming the homeless population is actually double the official count - 98.7% of Multnomah County's population is not homeless.
Edit: And also, eliminating exclusive SFH zones *is* part of addressing the issue of housing affordability. Rent stabilization (of the right kind) should definitely be implemented IMO, but the fact that Portland having a shortage of housing is a major contributor to it being as unaffordable as it is just can't be ignored here. Generally increasing the supply of housing is a necessary, but not entirely sufficient, intervention that must be taken to mitigate the issue of housing unaffordability.
Recently? It's been more than a few years. In Westmoreland alone, more than 550 apartment units have gone up, with less than 200 parking spaces between them. The average number of cars per household in Portland is 2.7, with the majority of the new residents being completely committed to driving their cars. Transit ridership is decreasing, with insane neighborhood parking drama.
When I was in highschool we didn’t take schoolbuses, we took public transit, and our school IDs served as unlimited bus passes. One of my favorite things about growing up here.
@Aspen Zachariah We took transit, too, on field trips!
Yeah it was great. Free transit for 4 years!
Reasons why I wanna move, Texas is a horrible car infested 0 walkability state
Yes! This was one of the things to boast about to my college friends that lived in car centered suburbs lol
In highschool currently, and it's the same for us. It's really convenient, just smack it on the reader and you're good. Makes getting around without a car rlly easy
Hi, I'm another long term Portland resident. Thank you for doing this video but I'm surprised you didn't bring up one of the biggest issues I have with the MAX, and that is that most of the newer stops are in places that are completely unwalkable. Especially the Orange and Green lines, being dropped off at the side of the highway or behind the back parking lot of a strip of big box stores is a useless stop for me. Often there isn't even any transfer to the bus system just a MAX stop all by itself. I need a light rail system that allows me to travel to walkable destinations, not the back side of car centric stroads.
This right here is the biggest issue. The new lines are absolutely awful.
This, isn't really an issue with the green line. There's a ton of bus routes all along 82nd and the clackamas town center is a major public transit hub. Where it is alongside I-205 is really logical.
@@Vespyr_4:24
Your pronunciation of the Williamette river had me dying. It's pronounced will-AM-it :) As a Seattleite, Portland's transit always seemed so far ahead, but its good to look at the flaws in the system because continuous improvement is good, and other cities need to know what they can improve on when building their networks, instead of just copying a good but flawed system wholesale. Seattle clearly took heavy inspiration from Portland when building its first bit of light rail, but it feels like we've realized the flaws, and are doing things differently as we build out the network and learn from other transit models. I do wish that in north america we would build more RER style lines to make up bigger distances, instead of just using the same mode we'd use in a downtown core. Our train lines should go faster then highway speeds imo if we want transit to compete with driving. Also, the streetcar network is very cool, and something i dont think seattle will ever manage to replicate. Great vid as always!
Willamette, like dammit :)
I grew up in Portland and recently visited Seattle. The Max is good and it serves more of the city than the light rail in Seattle does, but man do I wish the Max was as consistently grade separated as Seattle's lightrail is. Getting from the suburbs where my girlfriends family lives to downtown Seattle only took a few minutes thanks to the fact it's in a tunnel through the center of the city. I wish the Max would do that.
I really think it's a matter of less than 10 years before the Link is clearly far superior to the Max. It's already way better where it runs and I know it will go out to Bellevue by like 2023 or something pretty soon
IMO Seattle's longtime focus on ensuring that every major community that could be linked to the main city had fast, frequent rapid bus service (that could compete with driving) makes its overall transit network far superior to Portland's. I can take transit-operated buses directly into Seattle from somewhere as far as Bellingham WA-you can't even do that from places that are half the distance to Portland, such as Salem OR.
In the Greater Portland area, it seems that many outlying communities that do have a transit connection to get into the city only have a local (all stops) bus connection on a non-highway corridor. And so when you have to get into the city you have to use a combination of MAX and one of those buses, or worse, WES 😨
Yeah when I was in Seattle we took a double decker bus from the Lynnwood Transit center to the Northgate Transit center where we took the Link. It was pretty painless. Lynnwood sucks so it was nice for it to be easy to get out of it, lol
Seattle's usage per capita has always been much higher though for a bunch of reasons (density, better buses, concentrated employment...). Nothing like Vancouver of course.
Thank you for making these videos to let people know how transit friendly different cities are so we can know what should be expected, and what should be demanded.
Thank YOU for watching them!
You're not the FBI!
Glad to see ya cover my town. On the HOP card Trimet does have a low income fare program that drops the single ride fare to $1.25, the day pass to $2.50, and a month pass to $28 all of which happens automatically with fare capping and they lowered the requirements to qualify awhile back to include anyone who can get even a little bit of food stamps or the Oregon Health Plan. I just had to renew my low income card yesterday and it was a simple process where I filled out an online form with a picture of my food stamp card and then went down to the ticket office to get the card printed right away. I’m not sure what you mean by open payment but it does support regular tap and pay either on a phone or an NFC enabled credit or debit card and fare capping works up to a day pass paying that way. The busses also still accept cash as well as all the various ways to pay with the HOP reader. I think the biggest transit project priority has to be a downtown MAX tunnel and ideally it would also include the yellow/orange line as well. Also currently every proposal for the new I-5 bridge includes MAX yellow line being extended into Vancouver except for one option but I think it’s extremely unlikely that project won’t include MAX.
As someone who rides the yellow line very often I dream of the day the MAX doesn’t crawl into union station bending and twisting. I’m also really hoping to see an extension of the Portland streetcar into the east side neighborhoods and I know they are talking about maybe extending into the Hollywood neighborhood. But I agree that things feel kinda stagnant here. They lost the bond measure for the SW corridor MAX extension and since then it feels like nothing big is firmly on the horizon outside of whatever happens with the I-5 Bridge. I’m just happy to live in a city where I don’t need to own a car and can get around by bike and transit without any issues.
@@notenoughpaper The Tri-Met reduced fares scheme is a program funded by the State. And it's not that difficult to get the card which is valid for two years.
I dream of shutting down Burnside to cars and converting it to light rail. It’d be the perfect E-W line.
That $28 a month pass is for low income and disabled individuals a regular pass is $110 a month. If they made passes for everybody cost $60 many more people would consider taking it but instead they subsidize the poor and the bottom 10% instead of courting the middle 50% who if they did would probably take the network fixing the ridership problems
@@johnl9236 There is no reason to demonize the poor.
My only wish is that they would extend bus connection times at Beaverton/Hillsboro Transit Centers. At 12 am that sucker turns into a pumpkin instead of a coach on the west. side.
Your suggestion about a tunnel was the same thought I had last time I was in Portland. I was staying in the outskirts of the city close to a MAX stop (by I-205) and used it to get into downtown. It was a great, swift journey until it actually got into downtown. Then, having to stop at intersections and navigate traffic slowed it up so much I realized it would be faster to just get out and walk. A tunnel, should it ever get built, would allow for better service for the reasons you mentioned. It does seem like the city has become complacent in recent years with its transit system, and that Vancouver and Seattle in their different ways are both doing more to expand their lines and services. Thanks for the video.
Trimet completed their study and published it in 2019. I really hope that some movement can start soon as I don't think there has been much of any real update on it.
dont' need a tunnel, it would be dead easy to lay an express line around the north end of Downtown.
I agree that there are way too many stops downtown. Eager for some Express services, whatever they look like.
On the bike share system, Lyft has bought out most of the networks in the US, including Citibike in NYC and Divvy in Chicago, as well as SF, DC, Columbus, Denver, LA, and Minneapolis.
So strange haha
@@RMTransit I think it makes sense. Their business model is based largely around people not owning cars. If people can bike most of the time, then they're less likely to own a car. Plus, it helps them capture more ideological urbanists like myself, who won't use cars at all, rideshares included.
@@kirkrotger9208 In both cases they rely on the "gig economy" (people who are contractors, not employees). In the case of bike share these are the folks that move the bikes around. Lyft is also after the data. They hope to sell it to someone.
We also have a massive operator shortage that is causing service cuts. Right now we are about 400 operators short and no end in sight
Yea
I heard in a TriMet video that they do have approximately 1000 potential candidates but it takes time to train them all. Probably not getting too many applicants that have CDLs or bus driving experience.
@@kersplody7435 It's funny that those that hate TriMet the most never use it, they just scream on about the homeless using it to break into their cul-de-sac no where near the MAX
Yeah, I’ve experienced this first hand over the last few years as a bus commuter. I had to change my morning commute three times in 2021 because the routes I was taking kept getting service cuts.
@@GreatOnePDX rail alone is 11 weeks of training and very strict. Last class had 10 ppl and only 3 made it to the end.
I live in Portland and I’m super excited for the Hollywood project that’s going on!! I feel like the city has so much potential but we need to battle the Nymbys!!
nymbys?
@@fbidumbbee it's a term that means not in my backyard which describes the neighborhood Karen's basically
@@fbidumbbee It stands for "not in my back yard"
you have bigger problems than NIMBYs right now, and those problems need to be fixed before any transit expansion. Nobody will want to enter an underground train station that is wall to wall fentanyl zombies.
You forgot to mention that in the last 2-3 years your chances of getting harassed, or assaulted on the MAX have gone up by like.. I don't know, 500%? This is common knowledge to the public, and so less people are riding. This is also why night service is an extremely bad idea currently. Public safety needs to be addressed.
when i moved to Portland in 2012, Trimet was major asset. I took it at all hours and it was fine. Things started to get bad even before Covid. Long story short, i was threatened 2x at bus stops and once on MAX by meth junkies. I bought a car and stopped using Trimet.
Sad, but true.
Counter point I’ve ridden the max for most of the 10 years I’ve lived in Portland and I’ve only ever had a handful of uncomfortable moments. Plenty of people still rely on the max and it still is a great system. The new street team is helping a lot with the perception of safety in my opinion.
@@Newspeak. Of course a positive viewpoint is appreciated, but your experiences do not echo mine.
A big portion of Portland is also isolated from transit; my brother recently moved near cathedral park, and the only transit option is an hour long bus line with nearly 50 stops, despite it only being an 8 mile, 15 minute drive. I'd love to see some sort of rapid bus system to these areas, if not a rail line.
Yeah St Johns is difficult but there are at least a couple of lines going out that way. I’d love to see a Portland streetcar connection but I’m not sure how feasible it would be. I live in N Portland but along the yellow line and a couple of bus lines not too far away from St Johns and things are much better on that front.
this... i'm at least grateful that i live anywhere near a bus line at all, but it takes an hour for me just to get downtown and transfer to a different line
There is a good line that will go all the way downtown but it'll random just not show haha
I've been hoping for a Yellow Line spur that goes west along N Lombard, at least to the cut. That would REALLY cut down on travel times to St. John's.
But I have no idea where you'd put a junction in there.... Lombard and Interstate is too crowded. Maybe along N Denver?
Ugh, the 50 + min bus rides are the pits.
I've never understood why Trimet doesn't have more express busses. I live right next to the 72 That goes to St John's... It take over an hour to get there... Which means that I NEVER go there. There are plenty of other neighborhoods like this also.. Like Sellwood.
I'm guessing that Trimet noticed in rider surveys that people don't ride Trimet to the far sides of town. That they took this as lack of demand and haven't bothered with express busses...
But the reality is that the lack of express busses is causing the lack of demand.
Oh, and I'm sure that there is some NIMBYisum going on with neighborhood associations lobbying to keep through /express bus services scarce in their area to keep "the riff raff" away.
I wish that they would expand the streetcar system, maybe interline it with max in places that max will serve less in the future. The streetcars are able to run on the max system, so there’s always an option on reusing infrastructure.
Yep, it’s a good idea
Not necessarily. The streetcar uses a narrower loading gauge than MAX
@@benfryback9878 I mean, I imagine it wouldn’t be too hard since the MAX and streetcar already share tracks on Tilikum Crossing. Shows that there’s at least some compatibility there.
@@benfryback9878 If the streetcar loading gauge is narrower, thats fine. That would only mean maybe bringing the platforms closer and you're good
@@benfryback9878 the streetcar and max share tracks over the tilikum bridge so there's no issue.
I just moved to Portland from Phoenix and Ive loved how much transit they have. I was like "wow what else could they do?" Being from Phoenix where trust is hilarious and wasn't being seriously considered until this past decade, its been a fun learning experience, thanks for the vid
I moved from Phoenix to Portland back in 2007 just before Phoenix had their light rail in service. Portland, is the first city I lived in with a good transit system. I loved living there and I took the Max as much as I cloud. I also enjoyed the fact that during News Years Eve it ran very late so those of us out celebrating didn’t have to worry about drinking and driving… And for that night the ride was free. When I moved to Atlanta for a short period their trains were more like subway trains and less stops but I didn’t care for the fact at the time their were 5 different transit authorities and a lot them didn’t work together regarding fees and transfers. But it is what it is, the only thing that comes close in S.E. Michigan where I am from is the stupid under used M1 Q-line. Public transit should be 100% better I still tell people how much I love the Max.
Phoenix’s transit is growing RAPIDLY and it goes places people actually want to. I can use the Valley Metro Rail and one line of the Orbit bus to get from KPHX to most places worth going to in Tempe. They even have the beloved Cross-Platform transfers so you walk 150 feet max from train to bus.
@@MDLC424 I know, I left only two months ago, it still sucks by comparison
I moved from Phoenix to Portland about 5 years ago and it’s so nice to not need a car. Metro Lightrail is improving, but it’s just not nearly enough, especially for how widespread Phoenix is. While I do agree with the improvements suggested in the video, I still love Portland transit because I’m so accustomed to much worse
I once visited Phoenix for work shorty after the light rail opened and there was an ad on the train for ‘Portland style living’ at an apartment complex being built near one of the rail stops. I laughed so hard I nearly ran off the road. Though, to be fair, the train is not terrible if it just happens to go where you need it to.
Portland has been talking about/planning three projects for as long as I can remember but never actually getting anything started:
1. Southwest Light Rail Line to Tigard
2. Downtown Tunnel
3. Yellow Line expansion across the Columbia to Vancouver
Yeah but the Southwest and Vancouver projects have mostly died no?
@@RMTransit The Southwest Corridor Project is not officially dead, but rather "mothballed". According to Trimet: "Design work on the Southwest Corridor Light Rail Project was paused in 2020 after voters rejected a local funding measure for multiple transportation improvements. In the meantime, Metro, TriMet and the FTA continued working to complete the FEIS and issue a Record of Decision (ROD) to ensure the project is eligible for future federal funding." The Vancouver project has been picking up steam the last few months as a component of the new I-5 Oregon Washington bridge across the Columbia. An extension of the Yellow Line across the bridge would supposedly secure more transit-related funds from the Biden Infrastructure deal to cover the overall bridge costs.
@@MrSportsguy4321 Hopefully the Purple Line will be built, it is really, really needed.
SW light rail will probably get reapproved during a year that isn't COVID or heavy inflation IMO.
Extending streetcar service to Cesar Chavez Blvd on the east side would be nice. Or just more light rail in SE
As someone who relied on trimet when going to high school in Tualatin, there is a DESPERATE need for more rail in the southern suburbs. More than the WES line's 45 minute intervals which ends at 6 pm.
I'm a transit head and I've lived in Portland for about 13 years now and I agree with a lot of the things you had to say. Unfortunately, I have to throw some rain on your parade of suggestions in the form of Union Pacific. UP owns the right of way that MAX parallel to I-84. Quad tracking that stretch simply isn't possible without reducing the size of the freeway (HA!) or UP suddenly having a complete change of heart. The same issue exists with the regional trains sharing track with Amtrak. Amtrak owns nearly none of the rail it operates on in Oregon and it is all secondary traffic compared with UP trains, as UP owns the tracks. I'm a big supporter of the ferry plans that have come up over the last few years. Frog Ferry has a plan to not only go up and down the Willamette in Portland, but to also connect to Vancouver, WA across the Columbia.
The video I've waited a while for! A complete assessment of one of the weirdest and most wonderful cities of Cascadia!
Btw, right on the money about its negatives... The only LRT I ever wanted to get off because it took too long to go anywhere is the Portland Max network. Dwell times at one point were 5 minutes... I gave up... Who does that? Weirdo Portland... Perhaps it should be called a LT... cuz the R is just marketing at this point... *if the R is rapid... instead of rail because clearly that it has...
Thanks! Portland is definitely weird and wonderful!
only one tiny comment - the river in oregon is pronounced "will-am-it" (an architecture history professor i had in school joked "rhymes with damnit")
Yeah, I’ve been away from the West Coast for too long 🥲
When I die, I’m planning to donate my inheritance to the downtown Portland transit tunnel project. Also, quad tracks from Lloyd Center to Gateway would be awesome. Yes, please!
Where would you put the two additional tracks?
You shouldn't, Tri-Met gets majority of its funding from federal grants and some of it from tax payers money, the revenue they get from ticket sales is just a drop in a bucket. You can view their audits of how they spend their money, there is just no money to gain from the feds when they work on old projects or to renew them. Tri-Met has a few projects they were working pre covid but have been somewhat postponed due to other interpolitical issues and as well as recuperating from the pandemic, protests, and qos issues. The one project they were working on was the new purple line that connected from Tigard, Washington Square Mall, Tualatin, and Sandy TC back to the downtown Portland area. Then there's the current one they're working on to improve the efficiency on the red line from Gateway TC to the Airport, where they're building a new set of tracks and platform, while PDX is upgrading their concourses.
I'm assuming you're talking about serving the Lloyd Center AREA of town, since Lloyd Center itself is a total closed-down ghost town.
Great video! I’ve been in Portland for about a year without a car, and I’ve mostly been impressed at how much easier it is to traverse than other places I’ve lived. I’m not as familiar with the history of approving public projects like these, but I’m excited to get more involved since the city does have potential to be even better
I thoroughly enjoyed this! It just makes sense. Subterranean Max to boost speeds through downtown, adding more length to the trains, and possibly upgrading the actual trains themselves. Also offering rail service to Salem and Oregon City along the existing rails just makes sense because the rail line is already built and passes through many urban and suburban hubs.
We likely will see these ideas become increasingly more relevant as gas prices continue to rise.
The biggest problem with WES is that it doesn't go anywhere, instead you have to make an awkward transfer to the light rail to get to the rest of Portland, adding quite a bit of extra time on your trip, especially on the way back from Portland because you have to factor in a big buffer so you don't miss the return WES. There's really no good way to make it very useful since they have to keep it open for freight, so you can't convert it to MAX, and a mainline-compatible tunnel to Union Station would be expensive as hell.
Honestly, I sometimes feel WES could've been built as a Red Line extension.
Tram-train?
At one point it was going to be expanded to Salem which would be amazing to be able to get to/from with just trimet fare. Unfortunately that was cancelled so now it doesn't really have a use; ironically I'm in a position where it would actually work for mu mourning commute from downtown to the Washington Square area but I just find the 76/78 busses more convenient.
@@dog-ez2nu Tram trains aren't legal in the US because of FRA regulations. Also it would have to be dual-mode diesel/pantograph electric since it can't run diesel through the Washington Park tunnel.
It is possible to have freight and non FRA-compliant transit vehicles to use the same line. This is done on Salt Lake City's TRAX Blue line. During the day, TRAX uses the line and at night after TRAX shuts down for the day., the Utah Railway moves freight. TRAX uses the same type of vehicles as MAX (both use Siemens S-70s though not exclusively)
The biggest issue Tri-Met would with WES have a similar setup would be NIMBYs who don't want freight trains operating at night ("Too much noise!"). Some of the freight customers may have an issue with receiving deliveries at night but that is something that could be dealt with.
To clarify on the open payment issue, you can use contactless credit and debit cards (and have been able to buy tickets with cards at MAX stations for years). However, you don't get fare capping except for day passes if you use regular payment cards. You can also use Apple's express transit card feature to use Apple Pay without authenticating with Face ID or Touch ID.
Reece hasn't forgotten about us lol. It's always a nice surprise to find a video about the transit system that I use every day.
Stay safe on the lines
And for the unfortunate problems our beautiful city is facing, Carry some narcan
You never know when you might be the one to save a life❤️🌧
Why does every American city have to buy the worst tram types from Škoda. I live in the Czech Republic and I live Škoda and it has some great trams, so why do they have to buy the ugliest ones.
Because the US doesn’t care about trams so people will take whatever they can get.
@@Not_Sal unfortunately you’re right
It’s a bit of an unfortunate trend :/
MAX is Siemens S70s. Porland streetcar is Škodas though.
Yeah, you can thank Portland for that. Portland was the first modern streetcar system in the US, and nobody here was making streetcars. After we got them, everybody else seemingly wanted the same Skoda's (or similar). Really only Toronto, Salt Lake City, or Atlanta (among probably others) has decent streetcars that actually make sense here in North America
What you're talking about at 15:30 is actually exactly what they did with the lents/foster stop. That area used to be felony flats but now it feels like a mini downtown. With high rise affordable apartments and tons of shops on the bottom level. There's so much diversity and things to do now and it's right on a max stop. Just that little amount of money put into that neighborhood has already seen amazing results in 5 years. It should be a learning experience for portland. It's an amazing improvement.
Trimet actually does have open payment. You can just tap your debit card and it will cap like the mobile app will for the same price. It's really convenient for when my friends come in from out of town.
Also hate to be that guy but it's pronounced will am it. Mispronouncing it will drive portlanders crazy in the same way as saying orygone will.
I really like how Portland integrates the train stations as part of the city instead of them being separate huge buildings. Makes it feel like a part of city life.
Though agree that we need another system separated from other traffic forms.
As far as regional rail, there are a couple of options. Option one is to use the Union Pacific main line that the Cascades uses, but there is a second line that roughly parallels it where an interurban train, the Oregon Electric used that goes all of the way to Eugene in the south.
The idea of a water ferry in Portland sounds great, and maybe extending the service to enter the Columbia River and travel to Fake Vancouver in Washington, might get people interested in having a faster route other than the ferry or the Interstate highway bridges to commute into Portland.
After visiting Portland a few times and going just to ride the MAX, you put a lot of Portland's system(s) in perspective for me. Thank you.
Thanks for covering this! As someone who grew up in Portland I think you covered everything pretty spot on. From experience of using the MAX at my old job to commute to work near the Lloyd Center from Beaverton, there were two big issues for me that made me stop using public transit and drive my car instead. First, there is almost ZERO fare enforcement which a lot of people take advantage of. Anyone can get on the MAX and only on a handful of occasions have I seen any type of security that checks peoples fares. I have sadly seen people completely passed out, private parts showing, people getting in fights, and one man even shooting up some type of substance with a needle in his arm on the train. Harsh as it may sound, this is not something I want to witness (especially not at 7am). My second complaint that you touched on is that there is no type of monthly/annual pass incentive that brings down the cost of a fare the more you purchase. After doing the math, it cost me almost the same amount of money and actually less time to drive to work from Beaverton as it did to take the MAX. Factoring in the time, cost, and unpleasant experiences I saw, it just made more sense for me to drive to work each day and enjoy some peace and quiet than it did to take the MAX. Great video!
Two things:
1. Build a ring line
2. Frequency is freedom
I’d love if there were a train line cutting through Southeast Portland bridging the orange and green lines. Given the BRT project along Division, I think the rail line should be south of Eastmoreland, though it would benefit me more if they crammed it along Holgate. Currently I’m applying for a job which is in Clackamas and I’m faced with a 90-120 minute commute on transit. A ring line around Southeast would cut my travel time down to an hour, and assuming it reached Clackamas Town Center, would reduce the transfers from two to one.
Jarrett Walker reference
When I first moved to Portland some years ago, I was in the way far east of Portland, and after the first time I drove to and in downtown, skipped driving for the Blue Line. Since then I've moved downtown and gotten rid of my car, because there's nowhere I can't get on rail, streetcar or bus. (It helps that the streetcar stops in front of my house.)
As a Portland resident, believe me, we've much, much bigger problems than expanding transit.
I was seriously watching until he got to the point of homeless smoking fentanyl on the max, that slows down efficiency because then they’ve gotta air it out 15 min and your late to work!
Nobody actually works in Portland anymore, they work in Washington County where their companies are taxed at reasonable rates.
Yeah, he didn't bring up the elephant in the room. Right now any underground rail station would turn into a giant homeless encampment within 5 seconds of being built. Even Denver has to hose off the train platforms and hose out the train stations a couple times a day due to the risk of fentanyl residue and Denver doesn't have nearly the level of homelessness or fentanyl issues that Portland has. Also Portland is rapidly emptying out of both businesses and residents due to the problem. I had to laugh when he mentioned Voodoo Donuts haha, nobody goes there anymore because anywhere south of Burnside is unsafe even during the day and you just don't go out after dark in Portland anymore.
Nobody goes to Voodoo because they are shitty donuts. Homelessness is an issue that needs to be tackled, absolutely, and I think that the economic and aesthetic state of downtown needs to look much more promising before the tunnel or another major downtown investment has the city's support, but let's not overexaggerate & villainize the homeless.
Here in Seattle, even the stations in and around areas with really high rates of homelessness (CID, Westlake, Pioneer Square, etc.), the stations are not encampments nor do they reek of fentanyl. I've seen these stations get cleaned remotely, but talking about the trains being hosed out multiple times daily is living in fantasy land. Underground or indoor stations also means hiring security for said stations and trains, which Portland would assuredly do. Stop making up unrealistic hypotheticals just to get points for dunking on Portland.
@@mrvwbug4423
Former Portland resident here. As you identified, downtown is the main pain point for MAX. A tunnel would improve speeds for sure and HELP move towards longer trains but expanding a lot of the stops outside of downtown isn't as easy as you might think. All 4 stops between Hollywood and 99th/Gateway are pretty squished by I-84 and substantial existing businesses and roads. The cost involved in tunneling and building underground stations with elevators etc would be very high, probably as much the entire network's build out to date. It would also bring more security and safety perception challenges to a system that already has a lot of them. While I agree that a tunnel would be the best in terms of ultimate scalability for the service, the signal priority system and dedicated bus/MAX lanes actually work reasonably well and pretty predictably albeit at a leisurely pace.
As for the more suburban parts of the network, they are the best performing fastest parts of the network and spending money to make them a little faster doesn't seem like an obvious choice.
My hopes for operational changes were always to remove a few closely spaced stations such as Convention Center which is ridiculously close to Rose Quarter and Skidmore Fountain is very near Old Town. Northeast 7th Ave is close to both Lloyd Center and Convention center and very under utilized. These are small marginal changes but shaving 2 or 3 minutes off the cross downtown segment would be a start and very low cost. The entrance to the Robertson Tunnel west bound is a lot slower than it used to be after a security incident years ago which seems like something they could easily engineer a solution for.
As for new lines, the pendulum will probably come back but there hasn't been a lot of public support for Max extensions lately.
All the station platforms along I-84 (in Sullivan's gulch) were were built long enough to accept 4 car trains so would not need expansion for longer trains, though the pedestrian connections to surface streets might need upgrading. The difficulty with widening that stretch to 3 or 4 track widths is that the track lies between I-84 and one of the primary Union Pacific (single track) east-west rail lines through the city, and the railroad is fiercely protective of the right-of-way space for their track. There has been a proposal for 20+ years (not heard much about it recently) to create a bike path running through the corridor to make a high speed corridor akin to the Springwater corridor or Minneapolis' midtown greenway, but UP and adjacent businesses have been very resistant.
Agreed on the closure of those two stations. While it's been 15+ years since I commuted regularly on that stretch, it would take 5 minutes for the Max to go from the 60th station to the 12th ave (Lloyd center/Holladay park) station, and another 10-12 minutes from there to 3rd and Morrison. It takes about 25-30 minutes to go from the Lloyd center station to the station at the entrance to the Robertson tunnel, i.e. get across downtown.
The Steel bridge is the current bottleneck of the system. It is a 100+ year old double decker lift bridge, also owned and operated by the Union Pacific, as the lower deck is one of the two primary mainline freight rail crossings of the Willamette in Portland. Because of its age and also that the lower deck can be lifted independently of the upper deck, Max trains are forced to travel slowly across it, and there are reliability issues around the lift mechanisms as well. While an underground tunnel is the primary proposal for crosstown improvements, replacing the Steel bridge would partially improve things, but not as significantly as a tunnel.
Commuter rail to the south, southwest, and north would be great, but the difficulty is negotiating with UP (southeast and south suburbs, Salem), BNSF (Washington suburbs), and PNWR (southwest suburbs) for use of their right of way.
I believe that it would be a great idea to make a video on the Sofia metro. It is not that popular of a system but in my opinion it is a great example of how quickly a metro can expand despite the numerous issues that exist in Bulgaria. The system has made incredible progress and has 4 lines despite it being first opened in 1998.
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P.S. I know that this is probably going to get ignored but I decided to shoot my shot anyways.
I would be interested :)
Thanks for making this video. I definitely think the system here is often overlooked. Lots of people who have visited Portland praise Trimet for not needing a car while you visit the city. Honestly, the whole northwest (that includes Canada) does this pretty well. I've been to Seattle 3 different times, and found it almost shockingly easy to get around downtown without renting a car.
With that being said, I agree with just about all of the points in this video. Two things however, we do actually have open payment. I had to look up what that meant, but basically it means you can directly tap a debit/credit card on the Hop readers. The official Hop webpage confirms this (to be fair, that was a recent addition). The other thing is the 5 car length. I remember reading (a long time ago) that the older 3 series of trains (the high floor Bombardier's and the Siemens SD660's) can only connect up to 4 units. I also don't see a need for trains THAT long. Seattle successfully runs 3-4 car long trains at higher frequency (8 to 10 min) and that works just fine.
Well this got long. I watch lots of your videos, and it's cool to be getting the recognition. Hopefully new improvements, extensions, and that downtown tunnel are just around the corner!
This was really well put together and articulated- really made my city shine and challenged us to greater heights. Thank you
Yay, you did a video on my city! I agree with your take on Trimet being a little complacent with improving the network but a good think to bring up besides the planned tunnel would be the Southwest corridor project, especially because it's going to happen before they build a tunnel. Thanks for the kind words on our transit system I didn't ever expect you to talk about it ever again.
Hate to say it but last i heard the funding for that was rejected, hard to say what might happen with that project
@@alexengelman8568 yes you are correct, the voters didn't approve the funding for the project back in November 2020
The goose hollow station can't be moved underground. Tanner Creek runs underneath it.
Portland gets a bad rap but I like it for the vegan food and public transit.
Legit one of the only places that my wife (not even remotely transit interested) was genuinely impressed at the amount of connectivity for. And the fare price is honestly good, its incredible that you can pay 5 bucks and go almost anywhere in the city. Fantastic assessment as always, Reece
Yes you can go almost anywhere in the city, but you’ll probably need a second day pass to come back XD
Thanks, RMTransit, for creating & sharing this!
Hello, I'm a bus operator for TriMet in Portland, been driving about 2 years. I enjoyed this video. I believe right now there is a hesitancy to increase/expand service. We are currently having a massive shortage of bus operators and train operators due in large part to safety concerns. I think last year they wanted to pass a resolution to expand max service south along I5 and it was voted no due to concerns from suburbanites not wanting the unhoused shipped to their neighborhoods. I believe one billboard along the highway referred to the trains as "the COVID express". The tunnel is a good idea though as I can't attest to the difficulty of sharing 3 lanes of traffic downtown with pedestrians civilian drivers busses and trains.
🙏🙏
Suburban nimbys really seem to hate the “crime train” for some reason. It doesn’t seem to matter what the situation is with houseless folks or with crime though. The same type of folks have been calling the max the “crime train” for a very long time. Not saying their aren’t issues of course but also things are never as bad as they are in the imagination of suburbanites.
@@Newspeak. Well right now the claim is legit, downtown PDX is a sea of fentanyl zombies. As of last year anything south of Burnside was considered unsafe 24x7 and now the entirety of downtown is considered unsafe even during daytime. Downtown Portland is one of the most dangerous places in the US right now.
DART in Dallas has a similar problem; it is at it's frequency limit because all four lines converge on one stretch of track downtown. The D2 subway project is going to take 2 of the 4 lines underground so hopefully it improves!
And... its been cancelled.
:(
21:00 There’s already commuter rail serving Seattle-Salem. Amtrak runs multiple lines both ways every day. Amtrak should expand their service. The problem with the rails that Amtrak uses is it is owned by one of the private rail companies and service delays are not infrequent.
Wow! You can't unsee those weird tiny little blocks.
You failed to mention the Washington park station. Which is the deepest station in North America
Wonderful video! Thanks for giving my home town a look!
This analysis is a good lesson for small cities in North America which are resistant to investing in transit. Once the investment in transit is made, incremental improvements can scale capacity without ruining the character that brought people to that city, in some cases transit oriented development might even enhance some areas in the future. This is refreshing in comparison to places that are dead set on being committed to car oriented development. Look at places in the southeast US, where the car infrastructure will never keep up with population growth, and the sprawl just parks people in 8 lanes of traffic.
You are waaayyy to hyped about fully walkthrough trains in my opinion. You mention them in almost every video. Sure they add a little bit of capacity (but really not that much) but they also greatly decrease flexibility. In case of a failure on 1 door, the whole train is stopped for maintenance. You cannot lengthen your trains, which can be useful if demand grows, but also for special events (football match or something), peak hours, works on an other line that causes demand jump, ...
And also nobody ever fully walks through them. This feature is useless.
Completely agree. His obsession with shiny new rolling stock is ridiculous, and the open-ended cars have little practical advantage. That takes the cake in his rolling stock ramblings in my opinion. They are pointless.
We are having a hard time getting bus drivers and train operators but mostly bus operators because of the fact that there are a lot of attacks on drivers in Portland and I would think this is because we put up with a lot of stuff that you Canadians never would
progressives want people to use mass transit but if anyone asks for better safety, progressives call them racist and fascist
YES! Edmontonize it! (5-car trains in a downtown subway loop* still missing 2 stations in YEG case)The only time I can use this in a positive way... At least lately!
Edmonton built its subway stations for five cars, even though the original service only needed two-car trains. We got a lot of criticism for over-building!
Forgot to mention how bicycle friendly the Max rail is. Bike hooks near every door. Same with buses. Easy bike racks on front of bus allow for two or three bikes. Drivers are patient with noobs who need instruction to get bike on carrier. Also bus drivers much better than most other U.S. cities as far as providing information, being patient, announcing stops, not rushing you, not mumbling to you, just all around good service that one would expect.
Stayed in Portland for 3 months and loved their public transit.
As a Portland resident and frequent MAX user, I have few improvement ideas on the system. There are few plans that are in place such as green line extension to Tigard, extended red line service to Hillsboro Airport, etc. However, they are not enough.
1. First, merge the orange line into yellow line for simplicity. Currently, they are considered separate lines. However, all of the trains that run on orange line goes onto Yellow line from PSU South station which makes google maps confused.
2. Second, merge Portland Streetcar, TriMet, and C-Tran (Vancouver WA's public transit system) into one giant corporation. This will make extension much easier to plan and execute.
3.Third, extend Yellow Line North to Vancouver and Vancouver Mall and South to Gladstone and Oregon City.
4.Fourth, extend Green Line West to Sherwood and East to Estacada
5. Fifth, extend Blue Line West to Forest Grove and East to Sandy.
6.Sixth, give each lines line names. Maybe East-West line for Blue line, Airport Line for Red line, South-North Line for Yellow line, and Clackamas Line for Green.
I'm car-free and rely on trimet for longer jaunts, and you really nailed our strengths and flaws.
We've had a couple of private companies promise ferry service much as you described, but it always fizzles out. I think it could be done, especially getting St Johns traffic to downtown as that is a terrible drive.
As much as I love the idea of a tunnel I imagine they'll build a tunnel for I-5 before they go under the river for MAX.
It's interesting to see that Portland has the same problem that Manchester has, a light rail system that's expanded over the years adding more and more lines, and now has problems with congestion in the core (though admittedly Manchester has more heavy rail commuter lines that helps take the pressure off there). And as in Portland, there are also plans for a cross city transit tunnel, though nobody is sure if it's going to be for light rail, heavy rail, or maybe both.
It’s 100% going’s to be light rail.
@@GenericUrbanism I'm not sure. The problem is there's congestion on both light and heavy rail lines across the city centre, the singular viaduct that is the east/west connection is already at capacity with commuter, freight and long distance rail traffic. The light rail has two crossings, but there's still choke points at Victoria and St Peter's square. Back in the 70's there were plans to build a second city crossing underground with stations in the city centre.
While frequency (and lately, punctuality) are a definite issue with TriMet's operations, I still think that poor land use around the stations, especially further from downtown, is a bigger problem. So, so many stations throughout the network are surrounded by lower-density single-family homes, and the situation is especially bad on the western leg of the Blue line. The suburbs west of Portland still do a lot of old-fashioned, auto-oriented development, and are moving only slowly and incrementally to change things.
Well it’s not great, but it doesn’t matter much if their is good feeder transit, but there generally isn’t !
@@RMTransit Agreed; somehow a bus every 15 minutes is "frequent" service!
I don't know, the Orenco station development was absolutely MASSIVE. I do agree though that transit oriented projects on the westside could be much better. Unfortunately, while the MAX provides decent service (although 15 min frequency isn't ideal), there are HUGE holes where bus service could be added. I think there's lots of potential, but the westside is often forgot about
While Portland does have plenty of non-transit problems to tackle regarding housing and urban decay, I think there is definitely a need for many of the improvements you outlined here. The biggest one is really the rail tunnel project, because if you are going through Portland but not into it, you waste a lot of time on the surface level tracks in the city center. It takes me 1.5 hours to reach the airport, with about 20 minutes of that being just between Goose Hollow and 7th Ave. Bringing that time down to 5-10 minutes would be one improvement, but the other time loss on my end is that I have to transfer trains as I'm out on the further part of the Blue line. Thankfully the Better Red project is going to fix that transfer issue next year, so with that and a tunnel the time to the airport could be an hour or less with even just slightly higher line speeds. Still, hour and a half and $2.50 on the train beats 40-80 minutes of driving and $50-100+ in airport parking.
As for nighttime service, that's another frustration of mine. The services seem to operate 19-21 hours of the day, yet the morning gap in service means that reaching the airport for any flights earlier than 8:30am is impossible as the earliest train gets me there at 7am. It'd be nice to have trains even every 30-60 minutes during that gap just so there's at least something to get me over there. Hoping that will come in time, same with all-day and weekend WES service.
I’m guessing this comment is going to get a fair bit of hate given the viewership of this channel, but, as a Portlander, I felt compelled to add perspective from ground level.
First, for context, I grew up in New York City and for many years commuted daily from the outer boroughs to Manhattan and back, so I absolutely understand and appreciate the value of a good public transit system. One that, in many cases, New Yorkers chose to take over driving because public transit was faster and more convenient (sadly, it sounds like that balance has shifted quite a bit over the years away from public transit, but I digress).
Okay, with all that out of the way … I believe that many of the perspectives conveyed in this video do a disservice to the cause of public transit and are a big factor in the decline in support for public transit in Portland. Since the inception of MAX, Portlanders have heard these sorts of “faith based,” if-you-build-it-they-will-come arguments from TriMet and Metro over and over again. And, over and over again, the reality has fallen far short, while the costs will remain very real for many years to come.
To whit, the video mentioned that the cost to ride MAX is $2.50, soon to be $2.80, and lauds this. But it fails to note that the system’s cost per boarding is $7.74 as of 2022. The bulk of that shortfall of $5.24 per ride is covered by payroll taxes, and TriMet has burned any of the good will that might have enabled an increase in that percentage.
The underlying argument that the solution is increased capacity is belied by the past decade of the MAX experience, in which increased capacity-the Yellow, Green and Orange Lines-has produced decreased ridership. As documented in TriMet’s own reporting, MAX ridership has DECLINED from 35 million originating rides at its peak in 2012 to 31 million in 2019, before the pandemic. Not surprisingly, ridership cratered during the pandemic and remains far below 2019 levels, with TriMet reporting 16.3 million originating rides on MAX for its fiscal year 2022.
Even if we take the pandemic out of it, which we shouldn’t, there’s simply no evidence to support the argument that increased capacity will increase ridership in Portland. As for the MAX Tunnel proposal, I’m not sure where you got the idea that it “shouldn’t be that expensive,” given that TriMet themselves have estimated the cost at $3 - 4.5 billion. And it’s worth noting that that was in 2019 and doesn’t include costs for ongoing maintenance. For a city with a population of 650,000 and an annual budget of ~$7 billion, that’s a lot of freaking money. Not to mention the fact that we have other issues that are very real-mental health, drug use, homelessness, etc.-and require significantly increased funding.
While we’ve spent billions on light rail based on the sort of wishful thinking expressed in this video, we’ve continued to dis-invest in bus service, which is far more appropriate and would be far more cost-effective for a city with Portland’s population density and topology (TriMet cooks the books in their bus vs rail figures by including bus lines that only serve little-used MAX stations-without this “fix,” buses would be significantly more cost effective in Portland). I don’t dispute that rail can be more cost effective for cities with the population density of New York, Chicago, Vancouver, etc., but Portland is none of those cities and no amount of light rail is going to make it so.
I know that most of the people who make these sorts of arguments mean well, but the effects of the light rail dogma for people on the ground in Portland have been a net negative. Enormous amounts of money have been spent that could have been spent more effectively, people who need public transit most are being underserved, and the repeated instances of over-promises with under-delivery have soured many in the region on public transit as a whole.
So, Reece, your passion for this topic is great, but your over-reliance on hypotheticals and under-appreciation for real world evidence is ultimately hurting this cause that you feel so strongly about. Dogma, even in support of a good cause, rarely leads to good outcomes, and that’s a reality we’re living in Portland when it comes to light rail.
I have a great amount of love for the old type1’s and will miss them so much. It’s not for any rational reason I just like them allot
As a Portland native, I really enjoyed your video!
I have had family in urban planning here in Portland for a while, so I want to pass along some additional info.
There is a MAX line going in to Tigard along 99W. Planning is complete, we had a ballot measure to issue funding a couple years ago. Construction was put on hold due to covid, should begin soon. The Columbia river bridge will be replaced soon(hopefully), it will include a MAX line connection into downtown Vancouver Washington.
You are correct about the Steele bridge, we built the Tilikum bridge for those reasons.
The MAX line is given priority over car traffic on traffic lights around the city, and hence only stops in downtown for passenger stops. They are however limited to 15mph, downtown, and stop like every three blocks. The Portland street car however, stops at all traffic lights.
You are absolutely correct that Portland needs additional rail lines and overtaking areas to allow for express lines, of which we have virtually none.
There is an inherent issue with subway tunnels in downtown Portland in that most of the underground is water drainage.
WES is horrible, agreed.
There is a company launching a pilot program in the next year or so running a ferry along the river. We don't have a lot of faith it will go anywhere.
Also, you pronounced Willamette wrong :)
I really like this vlog especially considering that Portland does have a fairly good system. But Seattle is learning from Portland mistakes! They are building an actual metro. A train that is grade separated..
And no one is screaming how unattractive VC sky train is.
So if anything is serious about real transit that transport people effectively, they should be elevated or put underground. Streetcars should remain, but on a lower scale.
Excellent analysis and suggestions. I hope they get traction.
The Yellow Line and Red lines are massive. One goes across the city one the other the other way. I live in Vancouver (WA) and just take a bus down to catch either line, and get where I need to go.
On east-west corridors, both highway and lightrail are stuck on I-84 and not doing much on the south US-26 region
Coming from S.F. I’m impressed with the traffic signal management in Portland. Rarely do the trains dwell at stop lights and often the trains are given right of ways. This means trains run at a pretty decent average speed. In SF it’s been over a hundred years of losing the battle against cars meaning super slow avg speeds. Portland has some impressive urban infrastructure that I couldn’t imagine in SF. S.F. is cooking up the new $600M train control project that could finally give priority to our metro system. Lines could see increased speeds of 30% or more and run at increased frequencies if it all goes well.
I’m glad you talked about the WES Train and how it’s not that good. Along with the things you mentioned like newer rolling stock and increased service, I think it should also be extended to Union Station. Then people living on it wouldn’t have to change for the Blue or Red line at Beaverton, and this new WES that goes to Union Station could be part of the same commuter rail system as the one you mentioned that would go to Vancouver and Salem. It would also be nice if the Portland streetcar was fully integrated into the MAX system, with its lines being maybe the Silver and Purple lines in the future.
Great video, it's also relative, Portland public transit seams like a dream compared to Las Vegas where public transportation equates to "die on the street".
For sure
Living in Portland I really appreciate your video, I learned a lot. You do need to learn the pronunciation of the river ….
will-lam-it …..
I wish there were multiple bus lines/max lines that operate 24 hours
There were bus lines with 24-hour service but they were deleted due to a budget cut. They met hourly at the Pioneer Post Office at 1:32 a.m. and every hour till 4:32 a.m. The routes, with one exception, had been run since streetcar days, passing Center Street, Piedmont and Ankeny DIvisions. IIRC, they were the Boradway-Union (my line), St. Johns-Mississippi, Sandy Blvd-East Glisan, Mt. Tabor-Powell, Foster-52nd, and Sellwood-21st. Tri-Met added Rte 57 to Forest Grove, replacing deadheads to and from Center Street.
Really great video! Glad to hear you rope in the commuter rail discussion at the end. As someone who lives just south of portland, but only a 20 or so minute drive from downtown without traffic, it is painful how inefficient it is to take transit into the city. For suburbs like Oregon City, West Linn, Lake Oswego, and even WES served suburbs like Wilsonville, Tualatin, and Tigard, driving into the city would often cut the travel time 3-fold, which is why most people just do that. Taking the WES to Beaverton transit center (which would still require a drive to a station for almost everyone if the limited schedule works for you) with a connection to the Red/Blue MAX lines into downtown could very well take upwards of an hour with a car trip already built in. It is hard to convince anyone not to drive when the car would get them to downtown in 20-25 minutes. Many of the park and ride bus stops also see such low frequency that they are just not practical. The proposed MAX line that would run along Barbur blvd. into Bridgeport village would be a game changer, bringing Tigard, Tualatin, Lake Oswego, and other currently un-served areas of SW Portland an option that doesn’t require a lengthy detour into Beaverton. If is a real shame that it seems to be getting shot down by local governments. If some sort of solution is found to get commuters who live north/south of the city into downtown, I think that would be the upgrade the metro area desperately needs.
The Southwest MAX outcome is extremely disappointing. I think it's the first line that might have actually been worth building, serving a direct and complete corridor (instead of just going halfway to a community like the Orange Line, and on a substandard ROW like the Yellow Line). But of course, with Portland-area residents perhaps having become too unimpressed with how Trimet has planned previous lines, they reject the funding. Whoop dee doo. 🙄
@@daisukiman story of our lives right there
16:46 the thing to understand with Melbourne, is that the level crossing removal project is a road project first and foremost. They had an opportunity to have quad tracks, especially out east towards Pakenham where the line is very long, but also has to provide express and local services, then has to contend with with Cranbourne trains joining at Dandenong, AND to top it all off, leave capacity for V/Line regional services heading further east towards Sale and Bairnsdale.
As a MAX operator I think our over night service is adequate since from the hours of 1am to 3:30am we mainly transport folks with no place to go. I also really don't like having to go to work at 2am.
When Rose City Transit operated Owl service there was only one operator who had to start in the middle of the night. The rest of the Owls started around midnight, making the last regular runs from the 12:32 a.m. transfer connection and working as straights through the a.m. peak. The one operator who came in early made a shuttle run from Hawthorne to Center St. for operators headed to work, connecting from the Foster Owl. As a private company, RCTCo. had some different priorities than Tri-Met. And as they were generous contributors to city elections, police were readily available to deal with problem passengers.
On the money as to the #1 problem with the Max network. However, these are also issues on the Orange line through Sellwood and the Expo line through North Portland. This is the main reason why a light rail connection to Vancouver will never work, especially when a much faster express bus system network (with busses that regularly run at capacity) already exists.
The idea of spinning up a regional rail network is definitely something the metro area needs. Seattle, for example, is investing in this, and the current plans for the new I-5 Interstate crossing won't serve many of the suburban and exurban population population hubs that have sprung up around Portland.
Overall, good video--it's refreshing to see someone willing to take a critical look at our transit network. It has a long way to go to live up to the hype.
The hop pass is also used in Vancouver, WA which is convenient. There used to be separate paper ticket systems. There are two bus connections between Vancouver and two max stations as well as a downtown to downtown bus connection.
I just got back from Portland and the combination of Hop open payments and the FX2 was phenomenal.
And having grown up in Salem, I cringed every time you said Willamette 😂
Hi Reese, could you make a dedicated video on the MBTA. I know you have mentioned the system multiple times in your other videos. However, If you could make a video (or maybe even a new series) on how a transit system should not be managed (with the recent safety and mismanagement nightmare of the MBTA) could be a very good video. Anyways, this was a good video and I enjoyed it.
Surprisingly, it doesn’t seem like the FTA will take over the MBTA like how they did with the Washington metro, while it was heavily speculated they would. I kind of wish they did since the MBTA is by far the most corrupt agency in the nation
I will eventually :)
RMTransit
I definitely think the MBTA is a good one to cover. Alon Levy has written multiple articles on his blog (Pedestrian Observations) about electrifying the commuter rail network and turning it into a true regional rail network by digging a series of tunnels connecting the lines in and out of North Station with the lines in and out of South Station. It would likely have a stop at Aquarium on the Blue Line Subway, which would be transformative for transit access to Logan Airport.
I definitely think you should spend a considerable amount of time talking about rolling stock - lots of examples of what not to do.
I also think you should talk about the buses in South Boston and Cambridge/Harvard.
A couple more things to talk about would be converting the Needham Line to rapid transit standards and extending the Orange Line over it from its current terminus; and extending the Blue Line to Charles/MGH on the Red Line, to provide better connections between the inner suburbs northeast of Downtown Boston, and Harvard, MIT, and other colleges and universities to the west and northwest of Downtown Boston.
Thanks Reece for an excellent video. But there was one point at 17m 45s which this Englishman (Roger Sexton) did not understand. You said of the Hop Card 'It does not have open payment'. What do you mean by 'open payment'?
You cannot simply tap a credit or debit card to the readers, you must have a HOP card
@@RMTransit This is actually not true, you can use apple pay or tap to pay and it does the auto upgrade to daily pass etc.
@@RMTransit Thanks Reece. That is in marked contrast to many other places, eg London (England).
There haven't been many new light rail projects not due to a lack of trying. The Green Line was supposed to be extended over the next few years but due to very NIMBY suburbs funding didn't come through and it's on the back burner. Also, Vancouver, WA has been fighting tooth and nail to keep the MAX out of the State which could potentially bring in tens of thousands of new daily riders. As a longtime Portland a few things I would like to be seen done are new streetcar lines along the North and NE/SE neighborhoods connecting them to each other/downtown and for the Orange Line to go along Milwaukie Ave instead of HWY 99E.
I would love it if the MAX went back and forth between Vancouver and Portland.
It seems to me that (like with most North American cities) density is the main thing missing from Portland. I did a comparison to my own city, Stockholm, which is comparable in terms of population (metro areas are very close in population, both about 2.4-2.5 million) and not known as a dense city by European standards, at least in areas outside of the inner city which were built almost exclusively since the start of the 20th century. I subtracted the inner city from Stockholm and still came up with more than double the density of Portland as a whole.
Portland: 652,503 people / 345.57 km^2 (land area): 1,888 people / km^2
Stockholm: 935,619 people / 187.74 km^2 (land area): 4,984 people / km^2
Stockholm (excluding inner city): 593,402 people / 151.97 km^2 (land area): 3,905 people / km^2
It's very interesting that it's possible to serve such a sparsley populated city with a relatively expansive rail-based transit system, but I'm guessing the ridership numbers are not sky high.
I don’t necessarily think density is the biggest issue I think service quality is, Part of the issue is that like a lot of North American cities Portland has a lot of open space
I'd love if you talked about Dallas' transportation network as it's somewhat similar to Portland's. Similar LRVs (we call them SLRVs down here), a large network (93 miles of light rail), 3 AM to 1 AM services and quite a few quirks. We've got quite a few transit projects brewing such as the D2 subway through Downtown to alleviate congestion through the CBD Transit Mall, the Silver Line that links north suburbs to DFW Airport, and a few miscellaneous ones such as an orange line extension into South Dallas towards Masters Dr.
Being from Dallas myself, I'd love to hear someone else's opinion about it that isn't from Dallas, or Texas for that matter.
Great video as always, looking forward to more transit network videos like this one.
A circle line that goes from University of Portland to OMSI (somewhat the path of I-5) and/or one that goes from expo center to the airport to Clackamas Center to Milwaukie (somewhat the path of I-205) might help Portland's Transit system. Something even more extreme would be getting rid of I-5, I-205 and I-405. Replacing it with future corridors for high speed rail infrastructure.
I seem to recall the fares were the same when I visited PDX in 2015. Kind of surprised they haven't gone up in the last seven years!
Spent a bit of time on the MAX, I thought it was convenient, especially staying outside of downtown.
The BIGGEST concern with the max is SAFTY! A lot of people avoid the max for that reason, that probably whats hindering it the most.
progressives want people to use mass transit but if anyone asks for better safety, progressives call them racist and fascist. a junkie said i stole his stuff and came at me. thankfully stop was close and i was able to run away.
This is relevant to my interests
My issues with Portland's LRT system and planning philosophy are twofold: 1. Tri-Met's planning seems to generally disregard alignment, role and operations particulars in favour of just expanding rail as fast as possible at the lowest cost; 2. MAX expansion and the Streetcar are grounded on the rejection of buses as a mode to move people around the city.
The consequences of which are threefold: 1. Trimet struggles to break even and afford operations of the system (MAX all-day service is every 15 minutes per branch, but in times of austerity has dropped as low as every 20 minutes); 2. Buses in the city are inconvenient by comparison (in large part because the budget allocation for buses is cannibalized by rail); and 3. American car culture remains king, even when it comes to moving into and out of downtown as it is still convenient to do so on the various freeways.
Even Seattle's comparatively tiny LRT system was moving nearly as many people as all of MAX prior to the pandemic, and that was before Northgate Link. With that open, I don't suspect that MAX ridership will ever surpass Seattle's LRT ridership again, let alone the ridership of their wider rail *and* rapid bus system together.
I actually no longer think the street-running alignments through downtown are inhibitors for ridership on the system (similar alignments do fine in Calgary and San Diego), but they do play a part in the wider problem of services on the outer branches not being offered at high enough frequencies (or with good enough consistency/reliability) to motivate regular use.
Of the individual lines, the original Blue Line is probably the least offensive to me, and offers the best potential to be significantly improved as you say (express/local service would be awesome). But, the Green and Yellow lines are so hampered by their atrocious alignments, choosing indirect routes or slower rights of way, and getting people unmotivated to support further expansion (particularly with Van WA, where I know the opposition groups have cited that current I-5 express buses offer faster-scheduled travel time than the proposed MAX Yellow extension).
I don't even think the Green Line should have happened, at least not as rail. The ridership result is just abysmal-and from the geography, it seems that connecting downtown for most residents might be more convenient by taking a bus the other way (west) towards the Orange Line, instead of east towards the Green Line.
For me the fare system is so amazing and underrated part of the experience. Literally just such a straightforward app. Honestly if you don’t move to Montreal I could see you in Portland doing advocacy with trimet
RM did not mention the 'reduced fares' which allows people to ride for $1.25 or $2.50 a day, or for just $28 a month.
Never heard about this idea for a tunnel thank you I'm going to listen to this some more
This is a really good recap of Portland's transit system. It's pretty good but definitely has a lot of flaws and limitations. You're right, little seems to be getting done after the Tillikum Bridge and Orange Line being built out. Hopefully they can find the money to complete the proposed extension to the Southwest suburbs.
The new bus line recently opened, FX2, goes miles along a very busy street that reaches throughout the city. Plus, Portland has started using double-car buses!
Portland has explored two of the suggestions - using the river and freight rail. The currently effort to study river transit, Frog Ferry, had a major set-back recently after allegations of mismanagement. Vancouver(WA)-Portland commuter rail service on the existing freight rail was implemented during I-5 bridge construction, but it was only temporary. I'm not sure why it wasn't made permanent.
They don't want everyone to ride the aerial tram just for fun; it's made for people who work or go to school at the university. Not accepting the HOP card isn't a bug, it's a feature.
Every time I'm in Portland, I have to travel between the airport area and Expo Center. Both are on MAX, but despite not being that far away from one another, you have to go around your elbow to get to your thumb which makes it unappealing
9:15 ah folks from out of town. Thanks for visiting and your perspective.
20:15 this is PAINFULLY true to me personally. I commute daily between Portland-Vancouver for work and desperately wish for a transit method that isn't an hour and a half. If it existed, I could eliminate over 90% of my car travel and almost certainly go from a 2 car household to a 1 car household.
a downtown below-grade viaduct of some kind in Portland's downtown would go so far for this system. Without that, this system REALLY reminds me of Dallas's DART light rail, and seems to suffer from similar problems. Still a great start for a solid little system that one day could really look like a Light Metro rail with some key upgrades to grade-separation. Once grade-separation is figured out, I bet they could run longer, more modern trains as well.
Edit: I watched farther and Reece covers literally everything I said here, lol woops
Great video, you did your research! I'm excited for a potential Willamette/Downtown Tunnel, totally agree of having an above/below station for Goose Hollow, but it would probably help to put the same at Lloyd Center since there's still a lot of parking lot space available for constructing the connection between above/below. Hope you can take some time to make a video on the potential of the tunnel (where it would go, how much it would cost).
I hear there's going to be a LOT more empty space in the "Lloyd Center" area in the near future.
I’ve been car free in Portland for 15 years. Also we do have a privately funded ferry system in the works.
Thank you so much for mentioning Vancouver WA!
As a growing city, I really think that Vancouver could really benefit from sharing public transit with Portland, though I know very little about the subject.
I feel like I can understand Vancouver's hesitancy, as a shared transit with Portland would likely mean that a lot of Vancouver shoppers would simply just hop over to Portland to buy things without sales tax rather than shop in the Vancouver area (my family has definitely done that more than once). But, on the other hand, as Vancouver doesn't have the crazy income taxes that Portland has, I could also see a lot of businesses that aren't necessarily shopping-based moving to Vancouver now that easy transportation for employees opens up. But, again, I don't know much about the subject, so maybe that's just overly simplistic thinking on my part.
Portland. 90 homicides in 2021. Already 40+ homicides in 2022 as of June. 800-1000 vehicles stolen per month. Each daily news segment notes more businesses there closing. Not exactly a destination for people these days.
Oh my God, he mentioned my city
It's true, my wife has family in Beaverton and when we go down to visit we can leave the car in the burbs and take the Max downtown. It is mind numbingly slow once it hits downtown though. A downtown transit tunnel would be nice.
The Canada Line totally still needs longer trains in the near future. I concede that having the short design encouraged high frequencies which are wonderful, but it's getting to the point where rush hour crowding is bad enough that I think it actually discourages some people from taking it, especially at peak. TransLink has also cut buses like the 480 saying that the RapidBus + Canada Line has more than enough capacity, but it's not comfortable at all... It's going to be expensive and I really hope they plan to do it soon