Battery Fueled by Iron and Water Could Transform the Power Grid
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 มิ.ย. 2018
- Learn more at: www.essinc.com
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The Good Stuff team got to go check out a new kind of battery. It's completely environmentally friendly because it runs on iron and water. It's called an All Iron Flow battery and it's being developed by ESS, Inc. Join us as we go take a look at how it works, what makes it better than other batteries, and how it can help solve our energy storage problem. We even go inside of it!
Thanks to ESS, Inc for their help making this video and letting us invade their factory floor.
Fertilizer? I don't know how salt water can be considered fertilizer. Releasing tons of salt water on to that old oak tree will kill it just as sure as an herbicide will.
On their website they say that the 2 sides are FeCl2 and FeCl2 that become Fe and FeCl3 respectively when charging. Both substances are not "fertilizer" and can be quite harmful... en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron(III)_chloride#Safety
It's a pity you didn't spend 2 minutes to go to the technology page on their website to see that: www.essinc.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/ESS_Technology_redox_graphic_02-26.png
Note that the "salt water" is not NaCl but KCl. So technically when the battery is fully charged one tank is only KCl that is a fertilizer. But I bet that such a high volume of high concentration stuff will just kill plants instead of fertilizing them.
I use FeCl for PCB etching. That is not a bed or roses, I can confirm.
(However, still like this battery and hope it will fulfill its promises.)
MY INVENTIONS PRODUCE THE ENERGY - th-cam.com/video/VGLY5BntPVI/w-d-xo.html - but i dont need storage ;-)
Here is a TED talk with a claim of a shipping container with a storage capacity of 2MWh - th-cam.com/video/Sddb0Khx0yA/w-d-xo.html
"The sun tends to only shine during the day". This man knows his shit.
not if you live above the arctic circle during the summer
I'm an engineer, I have had my doubts about renewables for a long time for all of the reasons mentioned here. This is truly progress & something a great many should get behind as the potential is phenominal.
So plants do crave electrolytes. It is what the plants need.
Harry Svensson LMAO
Ahhh, not exactly. Salt water is considered a toxic waste and has to be disposed of accordingly. it is a fertilizer for marine algae only and some cyanobacteria like Spirulina. Ferric sequestrene as in FE EDTA is used to bind heavy metals from a toxic position. I have no idea why the CEO keeps talking about his battery is a common fertilizer. Put the salt water on the grapes and show everyone.......how they die.
Yep. Phytoplankton and marine algae.
Nice! My favorite movie.
@@philboeing1889 yessir - I've hauled oilfield waste, salt water is a worse thing to spill than oil, it kills everything: however, that would not be a problem at sea, assuming we're talking about NaCl
I'm going to guess that drawbacks include: lack of power density, prohibitively expensive transport costs, inefficient non-integrated design(pvc piping can't possibly be the most efficient option here)
Still a very promising and intriguing company
How can you go all video without explaining how they work??
Jonas Richert IP.... I was more shocked a whole video with no specs
Is there any books out there that could teach me how to build a such battery?
Specs are on the side of the battery.. many times? :(
David Hill specs are on the battery buddy.
2:20
This video is basically a big advertisement for ESS without going into the science at all. This should not be in The Good Stuff. It should be in The Meh Stuff.
So... what are the battery specs? What's the efficiency compared to alternatives? Caveats have been circumvented to get the sponsoring I guess.
Well the video and channel are for general audiences, so while that information is important, it would go over the majority of the audience's head and might even confuse them. It is nice just knowing that the tech exist and what it could be used for.
Agree with Krommandant... Distinct absence of the downsides... ☹️
Explaining battery efficiency is not that confusing if you do it properly. The measure of efficiency is important when comparing batteries, general audiences can understand some of it.
As an example, if you want to get 400MwH out of a battery and it takes 800 MwH of input energy to do so, the battery efficiency is at 50%, which means 50% of the energy you put in the battery is lost to heat/pumping/filtering/etc. while storing and converting back to electricity.
There are no perfect batteries, but if energy density is not critical, then the cycle degradation and efficiency become the primary factors in the choice of battery.
Given the recent trend in good stuff videos, this is a very valid concern. The channel seems to be creeping toward "who can give us money for a good review?"
Found this: www.essinc.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/ESSIFB100-800DS_071216bWeb.pdf
tl;dr: 80% efficiency, ~20000 cycles endurance, 50 Wh/kg net energy density.
Li-Ion chemistry for comparison: efficiency ~85%, ~1000 cycles endurance, ~ 150 Wh/kg energy density. Source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery
not too bad overall. probably the most important question is the usual one: what does it cost?
Thx, this helps me in what I can do with my future projects.
You be seeing all kinds of innovative technology like this all over the web.
It's strange how such technology like this never seems to goes into full
mass production, it always gets swept under the rug doesn't it.
Might be one of the many effective solutions needed to store energy as part of a smart renewable grid and independent energy systems. Not particularly energy dense but long life and low cost components should fill some important applications.
They need to make this a lot more dense to be viable. Only half the power contained in a Tesla model S that takes up a 40ft container needs serious improvement
Glad to see you going on location again :) Great video.
Good to see you guys are back with great videos
good show! this is weird, but I actually like this kind of sponsored film: sometimes good stuff happens to be a company with an effective promotions budget who figured out an important link in the chain of energy storage, which is cool
It's noteworthy that many breakthrough ideas in battery design are happening now.
I'm glad we've come to a time that these ideas can move toward useful production.
This was one of the best episodes in a long while, ever since the kick starter. Well done. I approve of more sponsored episodes.
I was wondering if this could be scaled down for use in a residential setting. A major cost for going off the grid for homeowners are the Li storage batteries, and they also require strict maintenance, and carry the same hazards that Li batteries in cell phones do.
I think the problem is the energy density. Your new battery would be a lot bulkier compared to a lithium ion one with the same capacity.
Jerry Rupprecht
I get that, but if it could be scaled to even van-sized, the cost and safety and environmental savings might make it viable.
It is not cheaper to make it or use it (in fact, it probably costs more per KWh if you do not use MANY of this truck-sized batteries on a VERY BIG system).
-> The whole idea is that is "eco friendly" because you can make a hole on the ground, dump the battery and forget.
Aragamis (SilverComet)
I'm talking about single-home use. The one shown could power a block, so one for one home should be smaller. As to cost, you have to figure in that these are purported to be viable for 20-25 years, whereas, Li batteries need to be replaced every couple of years or so.
Li-ion batteries can be made to last 25-30 years (like the ones in Tesla cars).
-> The reason the ones in cellphones last less is since it is _a bit_ cheaper to make (not much, but in the dozen millon units it is noticeable); and because they are EXPECTED to not be used in five years regardless [because their tech is by then *beyond obsolete* and it will actually hurt your productivity and social interactions to keep one (not compatible with last APPs)].
This iron/water batteries can not be scaled down to power a single house at a similar price. Since they are using semi-trucks to move the "standard size", one small enough to be loaded inside a vehicle that does not require a special driver license would not be powerfull enough to power by itself a typical family home.
i want to see a diy of an iron water flow battery
Kira Queen , I think you just did.
no i mean like, someone starting from scratch getting stuff at homedepot to make a smaller scale version of this
Take a chemistry class in college and you will get to make your own battery
Robert Murray Smith did a (better) DIY Iron-Nickel aka NiFe battery. You can get the iron and nickel from your local pottery shop and the electrolyte is just potassium hydroxide. He has moved on to all carbon batteries now which are even cheaper and safer than the iron batteries + they capture carbon... but the old NiFe videos are still up. Just look up a standard electrode potential table and you can make batteries from all kind of materials.
Angie G Take a potato or lemon ect. and put two different kinds of metal in it. Then you have a battery. There is no need for college, for a two minute project.
Thank You, The Good Stuff, you open my mind to off the grid solar and wind down side home can it be done in 20ft container?
how the hell do you not have more views? defo one of the best channels out there! people need to see this!
This is so incredibly hyped....no mention of the power required (net loss) to constantly circulate the conducting (electrolyte) liquid....not sure about charge and discharge losses...compared to the iron edison batteries and what about self discharging...?
Hmmmmm! I didn't know about all of that stuff! Good point! Make them answer.
*Good technology to clean up our planet.*
The electricity is wining on our planet. It might as well be non-toxic in storage.
Wow! This is really awesome!! ESS is now on my radar thanks to you! Energy storage is where it's at. I know what I want for Christmas now! 😆
footage at 1:48 is from my home town, i can see my house! and I like this battery, what's the hold?
You guys said it best, it takes multiple approaches to solve our energy concerns. Li-ion batteries might remain the standard for personal use whereas these will be limited to commercial and industrial applications.
I understand concerns people are addressing about sponsored videos, but I enjoyed this episode solely for the fact that yall went out and saw something, with real footage and real people. Reminds me of a lot of the original videos on this channel, which I found so much more interesting than voiceovers over stock footage on random topics. I backed the original kickstarter and it's nice to see some of what made the channel unique again.
Love it. Combined together and switched sequentialy they could provide longer run times. Also compares to a BIG Sodium battery. We need a cheep 4 day battery for PV use.
The good stuff is underrated. I love this content
There may have been some biases here and there in the video, but I believe this energy could actually be beneficial; give technology sometime and find a way to get solar energy to be more effective with energy intake, Im excited for this.
Unfortunately, environmental concerns will always take backseat to economics. So I'm curious as to the price of these containers compared to a comparable Li-Ion setup. A Tesla Powerwall 2 holds about 13kwh at about $7300. So about 30 Powerwall 2's would have same capacity as one of these containers. Therefore if one of ESS's Fe-H20 400kwh flow battery containers comes in under $200K, they're definitely on to something here.
I would think 50kW of output and 400kWh capacity would have an 8 hr. duration if as he says 20 year life cycle this is a substantial amount of energy storage if you use 25 kWh for the average home in a day this would cover a 16 day power outage. the only real problem might be cold climates but this is true for most batteries.
@@geshbeddin I wonder how a flow battery is affected by temperature, cold or hot.
this was my point and not really addressed in the information as I live in Alaska and it gets quite cold here in the winter so I would imagine this type of battery would need a place to store it that is kept warm. I am thinking standard room temperature.
geshbeddin 25kwh is over double what I use on average per day, live in U.K. so maybe no AC.
``Unfortunately, environmental concerns will always take backseat to economics. ``
With that attitude, you're just engaged in self-fulfilled prophecy.
How much do plans cost to build a small unit for our off grid refuge place with say eventually 12 homes? We are using regular golf cart batteries right now.
Wow - a ton better than the last video about ... mowing your lawn! Thank you!
3:38 "Typical Li-ion batteries can only do it from 1 - 2 hours". Um no, but good try. You can make a Li-ion pack that can do as many hours as you wants, it's just a case of sizing it appropriately.
Yeah, even someone with minimal tech knowledge would turn away at that. The video was very interesting, and even had some useful tech information - though not much. But that statement about 1-2 hours made me question the validity of the whole thing.
To be fair the video does say "typical"
And the part of the video is a bit confusing but I think it's talking about keeping the 400kwh stored and kept at 50kwh. Lithium ion batteries when charged fully, their charge dissipates over time. I think that's the comparison this part of the video is making.
@@owenhann2363 They must be talking about laptop & cell phone batteries.
I leave my cell phone & laptop plugged in all the time, so it's either at 100% charged or run down all the way to 0%.
The performance of both those 2 items is abysmal, just 2 to 3 hours max.
It would be too ridiculous to say the same thing about EV batteries.
My EV batterys' (LifePo4) charge cycles are controlled by the BMS.
They never charge 100% & never discharged to 0%.
That's why EV's have an 8 year battery warranty.
Of course no one would suggest using cell phone batteries for grid storage.
Although, laptop batteries would work with an EV battery management system (think Tesla Powerpack).
Just look at what the Tesla powerpack has done in Australia.
kind makes me feel like he's selling stock and the tech isn;t quite there.
also they dont die after a couple of years. LiPo batteries can last for 15 to 20 years. so its not s good idea to lie about the competitors. Google can tell you almost anything you need to know.
Tesla now makes batteries at $100/kWh, so one of these containers would need to cost less than $40,000.- to be competitive.
The fact that they don't mention the price suggests that they are not.
this set up is around $3k/10kWh
@@markeasterday3130
Based on your data point, this battery is three times the cost of the Tesla storage system, however that is not at all surprising. Something the size of a bathtub is far more cost effective to manufacture and install than something the size of a rail car. This iron-water battery appears to require some sort of on-site maintenance, as well, yet it may already be cost effective for its intended purpose of long term storage.
Wait untill solid state batteries come to the market. They tend to have less material and cheaper to make. Oh yeah, and degrade way less because of solid electrolyte.
You are comparing apples to oranges. My guess is that Tesla's actual cost is greater then that, but all of the major Li ion battery producers eat the loss because the stock market is more important to today's economy than making profits on actual production. Given the run up in Tesla's stock they can probably absorb this cost forever for the number of cars that they produce. But if you start having purchases for grid scale storage at that cost Tesla would end up putting you on a queue for eventual delivery, which would not happen before you cancel your order. If you look at that shipping container, they aren't benefiting from scale of production and automation. Currently ESS is bragging about getting $30 million in additional funding, which is absolutely tiny when you are thinking about grid scale storage. How low the price ends up probably depends on membrane costs and funding for a factory in China.
Very low energy density ... Please correct me if I understood wrongly, one 40 ft container having 50kWh ?
Congratulations! You re-created a Galvanic Cell. And then put them in a truck container as a Voltaic pile. Aquion Energy did this as well about 6yrs ago. They are currently out of business. I hope you guys are able to survive! best of luck.
It's a different market now. Large scale storage is necessary, and it's going to take a lot of iron flow and vanadium flow batteries. There are other advantages to these batteries that were not mentioned, such as ease of recycling, replenishing of energy storage media, very little degradation, and more.
What about membrane and electrode erosion? What about membrane or electrode clogging ?
And so far, I haven't found that membrane at my local HomeDepot. FMMV!
@The Good Stuff
Thank you for this video, it is always nice to learn something new with your videos.
But I have some issues with this one: I don't mind, if a website or a company supports you, as long as it has no vested interest in the direct content of this certain video. It only hurts your credibility, if your content is about the exact product of your sponsor.
Especially technologies as such usually don't only have pros, and for a balanced view I would have liked to have the downsides of this technologies discussed also, if there are some.
I would like to have some questions answered:
What is the life expectancy of this battery?
Where lies the capacity compared to other technologies?
How does the battery work?
How fast can it charge?
Etc.
And last but not least:
On the container it said 400 kWh. Let's put this in perspective. A Medium sized Wind turbine produces 2 MW of power equals to 2000 kW, so you would need 5 container to capture the power, that is produced in 1 hour! The need for power storage occurres usually at night for wind turbines, so let's say in a realistic scenario a wind turbine would produce power for 6 hours that is not need, so to store these 12 MWh you would need 30 of these containers.
Don't get my wrong, I agree, this technology is cool, but please show a realistic image of how it could be implemented.
Greetings,
A Fan
Are the figures you are quoting theoretical, best scenario, based on 24 hour winds 365 days of the year. If so, this is not the case, how many times have you seen wind turbines static or barley moving. On average a wind generator is only 25% efficient, therefore for much of the time your 5 required batteries would be redundant (75%)!
Correct me if I'm wrong but you say wind generation is mainly through the night, not so In warmer countries such as Greece (I live there 6 months of the year), most wind is thermally generated during the day, as is solar energy, this is exactly the time when power is needed for factories etc. All that needs to be stored is the excess which can be used to supply domestic use in the quieter, darker evening hours. It would be nice to be able to store every ray of sunshine, every breath of wind, but it is as yet not practicable. As for Lithium etc, do we want to carry on raping the world of these heavy, polluting metals?
Definitely enjoyed the Bladerunner stylish music :) and great company that you interviewed !
Which track is it @ 04:03 ? Is it from Mr. Robot?
so like the Tesla grid battery in South Australia, how much would a similarly sized one of yours cost?
Something fishy is going on when you have to pay a suscription to get information about the spec of this battey. There's no straight answer in their web site.
What till Thunderfoot sees this.
SlimThrull
According to his logic my 50000mAh power bank can kill me at any time.
kk346592 didn’t know he said that, it not impossible - just highly improbable.
He's been notified. ^_^
I hope its not another solar road or hyperloop fiasco.
This guy is highly unreliable
using the shipping docks, truck infrastructure, and most common containers as built in infrastructure for simultaneous transportation storage and modular walk in operation is an amazing efficiency innovation. it was right under our noses!
you can literally truck in chemical electricity instead of generating it with a fuel generator.
Great job great vid. IDC if they did sponsor u, they have a great product and you have a great audience. Well done.
that was some good stuff
I got to be honest. I'm sick of "10 more years" technology. I'm really glad things are moving and there is hope. I'm glad people are working hard on these issues. It just seems like everything is 5 or 10 years away until surprise it is patented out of usefulness.
we have the answer today...Liberty, just makes the freaks less money.
What is the stock shares index letters ,i looked up ess and CAN NOT find , the stock. Idd like to buy some shares of this company's stock..
I drank a liter of water and ate some liver, it kept me running for 6+ hours. Can confirm this technology is good and safe!
What about Molten-Salt batteries ?? Please investigate.
Pillarship Empire Employee #0. that's why? that's why what??
If they are molten, they are not very feasible if you have to keep it molten. I just realized that my they might of not been asking that, so if they were asking why it was not used than that's the answer to that question.
oh I see.
well they're feasible all right:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molten-salt_battery#Rechargeable_configurations
P.S. my guess is that "levmatta" wants a video to be made about Molten-Salt batteries.
That's what I thought they were asking for, also didn't know that melting something when you need electricity was usable with current technology.
Molten-Salt batteries are interesting, but like with any battery chemistry it takes years of R&D to make it work well. With molten-Salt batteries it's a challenge to find salts that have stable chemistries, have a low melting point, good conductivity, are affordable, long-lasting, and dissolve whatever it is they need to dissolve. Salt tends to be corrosive, especially at high temperature. It reminds me of the technical issues with high-temperature fuel cells where there are significant design challenges with making them affordable and long-lasting. Water is ubiquitous so it's easy to take for granted what a good solvent it is until you try to do without it. The approach is probably well-worth researching, but making it viable is not as trivial as it might seem. One good thing about this ESS Iron-Choride chemistry is that it's relatively simple. It makes it much easier, more stable, longer-lasting, and less expensive. The problems with water are that it tends to limit the cell voltage to 1 or 2 volts. And many of the earth-abundant metals are too reactive to use in water. Iron is the obvious exception. Zinc is also a good candidate. For non-aqueous electrolytes, some the ones used in lithium-ion batteries seem surprisingly good. These could be affordable, non-toxic, work with many metals in metallic form (sodium, etc.), and at higher voltages.
Are the Pyramids, iron flow batteries?
uh, no.
Wow was just about to write the same thing. We know the aquifers under the pyramids had something to do with electricty production so it's a very valid question.
Hi! Just curious, what is the efficiency of the charge-discharge cycle?
Are the "ESS" usable for a house now? Where Can I find them?
Nice technology, but 50 kwh in a whole shipping container isn't a whole lot.
No mentioning of the cost per kwh?
How fast can these batteries charge and discharge?
Would it be possible to increase the capacity using different materials?
Here's some info about the discharge time that we can deduce from the video. And some comments about your other questions.
At 2:35 a trailer is shown that says 50 kW and 400 kWh.
kW is a measurement of power, kWh is a measurement of energy.
400/50 = 8h
It can discharge in 8 hours*.
*But there are always losses, also the more power you take, the less capacity you get. Which is probably why the say 6 hours at 7:06.
The reason for why the energy, aka the capacity of the battery, is "reduced" by the more power you consume, is because the battery has an internal resistance. And when you consume more power you take more current, and power is (resistance × current²). So higher power output => more power is being wasted in the form of heat in the cables and internal resistance of the battery. So it's 6 hours with 50 kW load. And probably around 35-40 hours with 10 kW load or some other smaller amount (yes, I'm just guessing).
===================================
"No mentioning of the cost per kwh?" and "How fast can these batteries charge and discharge?"
I don't think you can get a good guesstimate for the charge time or the cost per kWh though.
"Would it be possible to increase the capacity using different materials?"
Yes, ofcourse, but that makes the whole idea bad, the reason for why iron and salt and water is chosen is because it is redundant and safe. You could go with Lithium Ions, but then you will run into problems as they describe in the video. (Fire Hazards and Ph problems). Even
if you could get a battery that was twice as good with copper instead of iron, then you'd still go with iron because iron is way more redundant than copper (and muuuuuch cheaper). I don't think you can get a metal that is cheaper than iron and a liquid cheaper than salt water. I mean, you have an entire ocean.
There's 400 kWh in the container.
It can output 50 kW.
Its 50 Kw/400KwH
John Horvat, that makes literally no sense.
Even google agrees with me.
www.google.com/search?q=(400+kWh)%2F(50+kW)
google just says 400kwh @ 50kw is 8 hours.... that doesn't say "error, this doesn't make sense" lol.
Salt water and Iron - its basically fertilizer ?! It would be nice to have some real facts and not those in the sales brochure. There are lots of negatives and limitations to this technology which aren't mentioned.
So, please mention and explain them.
Can you use fresh water that was dirty but filtered and cleaned and add table salt in place of ocean salt water
This is a very useful part of the power storage solution - it has some very exciting prospects.👌👌👏👏👏👏
Excellent video!
SpyingDutchman says the guy with a playlist that's called "fake news and media lies"
Batteries are definitely in our future, no doubt about it. And this particular type is wildly innovative. The fact that its non polluting is going to give it a great big leg up! I think it has a very big future.
So what's the power factor for the storage ratio cost to re delivery of power? there must be a cost for this storage they did not say and how much does the power container cost as well
The early Electric cars in America started with the invention of the Nickle Iron Battery by Thomas Eddison in 1901. Called the Eddison Cell they lasted more than 20 years if properly looked after, they also used a mild alkali as the electrolyte. (salt water is an alkali.)
So we learned that there are iron + water batteries ... but no specs, and a lot of propaganda and misinformation about Li-ion batteries. Shame on you, whoever made this video without doing at least some research!
Look up"Edison Battery".
Very,very old tech.
@@firstgoinpostal That's a different technology. Nickel Iron isn't a flow battery it's closer to lead-acid.
Lithium ion batteries do suck they can only be charged around 1000 times before they loose ability to hold their rated charge. If im wrong then why do cell phone batteries fail after a few years. Charging your phone average of 365 times a year quickly adds to 1000 charges.
Nearly every video on this channel should have a few more zeros on that views-number.
Philipp J Seriously.
Respected sir,I am happy that the effect s taken to store energy is a excellent idea.i am praying for all the people who were being engaged in this programme.god bless the earth and future generations.
Did i hear right that it hold the charge for 4 hours and would only be good for a buffer for a limit of 4 hour if no grid or sun was available?
I'm not sure you can call salt 'fertiliser'.
It uses iron chloride salts, not sodium chloride.
So what are the downsides?
Laezar He was paid not to share them.
Well, obviously they're huge. A Tesla P100 has twice the storage capacity than one of these.
Size and complexity.
Less efficiency compared to lithium ion batteries for now. Also, it, like all other batteries, might not be as capable of delivering short but huge bursts of energy as supercapacitors, rendering it less useful for transport or other applications.
Arlen Morrison The side of the containers show 50Kw and 400Kwh. A P100 has 100Kwh. Unfortunately, they mention powering a neighborhood with 50 Kw but dont know the difference between kw and kwh.
Sounds real good for large storage batteries? we still need the smaller stuff though???Thank you Ronald.
I think many missed the point. They showed that the storage and converters are separate. This means that the systems are not restricted to containers. The storage tanks could be separate and much larger. The converters could be located at the source of electricity and the 'juice' could be piped to storage tanks and then on to converters at every point of consumption.
Wow this is so exciting. Storage of electricity is a huge hurdle to overcome. The government may surpress it on behalf of fosel fuel interests.
Hope you mean 'current regime'. And that's a BIG affirm (were it viable). Just like they're doing to SOLAR as we speak!!! Big fossil lobbies & their gov't lackeys are staging campaigns AGIN' rooftop solar, hurting jobs and squashing NET METERING. Don't let it happen in YOUR state (or country). SMART GRID for ALL PRODUCERS.
Better inform Elon Musk that he needs to switch production, at all his Giga Factories.
That's kind of like telling Microsoft to use Linux for their developer's desktop PCs - it might be a better option, but that might not look good on the company.
Gigafactory produces lithium ion batteries for cars and home storage. These need to be simple and high density, while cost is a minor issue. The iron-water flow batteries featured in this video is the exact opposite; complicated flow plumbing, low density electrolyte and a focus on very cheap per Wh price. You would never want that in your car. The two technologies are simply not covering the same use case.
Even Microsoft has realised that Linux is a thing. Looking at the number of Linux Hosts that are on Azure 40% plus. They have found out what NOVELL was telling them all along. It's good to integrate with everyone. :o)
I heard of aluminum plus salt electrolight battery from Isreal using oxidation the same way this does. Fuel cell configuration was the differing factor for a car not large storage where I can reasonably see why there is lot of electrolight plumbing.
Would love to have one as a backup for my house, I may share with my elderly neighbors. LOL
That one thing is 400kwh?
The Tesla roadster is a 200kwh battery powered car
Someone , ah yes but that 200KWh Tesla battery is only good for a short period. You have to look at these types of batteries over the longer term like 10s of years. That’s primarily what they are trying to achieve. Deep cycle, long life.
Its 50...
Tim, he's talking about the Roadster 2. It's 200kWh.
Yes, but it's just an announcement so far. Maybe some day.
But there are real existing Model S with 100-kWh-battery.
That's what "lower energy density" means...
These kind of videos depress me. Maybe the flow battery that is the subject of this video is the best answer to store renewable energy for the grid but how could you trust it when such outright lies are told about the obvious competitor. Li-ion batteries used in those applications do not die after 2 years, why even the Li-ion battery in my EV is 3 years old and it has a warranty of 8 years (so far with no loss of capacity) with an expected life of 10 years, maybe more (and Li-ion cells used in the world's largest grid storage applications have a different chemistry, one optimised for long life and many charge/discharge cycles unlike EV cells that are optimised for high power and high energy density). If you expect to be taken seriously stick to the truth, people understand that if they are lied to about one well understood aspect you could well be lying about anything.
I'm guessing he meant that a Li-on battery would last 2 years of non stop cycles of 100% charge to 0% and back.
Lithium ion batteries vary extremely depending on how it's made, who makes it, processes etc. There are different types of lithium ion batteries. Some have technology/special process to make the life span longer and last more cycles. Some don't. But all lithium batteries lose capacity with each charge, how much is lost depends on lots of variable but they ALL do. There are lots of research being done to find ways to extend the lifespan of lithium batteries, and lots of research already done, that's why lithium batteries nowadays have a longer lifespan, but to sum it all up, yes, they all do lose capacity with each cycle.
Salt water will kill most vegetation it’s not a fertilizer
It's good to be skeptical about all the information they're feeding us. I mean, they're transparent about the fact that this video is SPONSORED by the product's manufacturers, so they're clearly incentivized to highlight and exaggerate the faults of their competitors.
@@hjdhjd78 Do you know how many different kinds of salt there are? When the layperson hears 'salt' they immediately think of Sodium Chloride. But there are TONS more.
brilliant at its simplicity. here is a clear case where simple utilitarian design excell. storing energy for later use. I wonder if you could turn every swimming pool into a battery simply by solvating ions to its bottom / concrete walls.
Does the iron rust from the salt water, or do the two elements have contact? If so, can you simply replace the iron?
if it worked they would have it on the market by now its 2019 when I view this still no graphite or this muggufinyet .the misinformation about lithium cells in this story earns it a thumbs down
50kW in single shipping container? LOL you would need a thousand for a tiny tiny 50MW gen? And in the tens of thousands to support a nuclear reactor sized facility replaced by green alt.
If you believe for a second that electrolytes have no breakdown over time you should believe in free energy and perpetualmotion.
Pumping water uphill has been and always will be the only viable solution to large energy storage that's green. You can do the basic numbers on a shipping container full of water drawn up a hundred meters and it will blow this thing out of the water. You all need to get a little more scientifically literate.
I also thought that "no degradation" was a stretch, but I expect the small print is something like 1% after 20 years. I'd expect the parts inside to corrode before the actual charge is lost to a noticeable degree.
As for the second point, yes the capacity does seem small when you compare it to a whole power plant, but this looks like a solution ideal for maybe a single business or facility that produces its own renewable energy.
Gravity is the best battery though.
"You can do the basic numbers on a shipping container full of water drawn up a hundred meters and it will blow this thing out of the water".
OK let's do that calculation.
This battery says "400kWh" which is equal to 1440MJ.
35,000kg shipping container raised to 100m has 34.3MJ.
You'd need FOURTY TWO containers to match the battery.
Doesn't sound like an economically viable alternative to me.
They said 50kW for a single container. And I meant the volume for the container, not the gross weight. I'll crunch it in a bit. I'm shocked anyone actually responded.
But I might be wrong if it's 400kW unit, but I'm pretty sure it's 50.
+Mark Sieg You're confusing kW with kWh. The battery is 50kW/400kWh.
"You all need to get a little more scientifically literate." I recommend you refrain from these sorts of comments in the future.
Agreed with Greg, and for those who dont understand the difference on the side about 50kW/400kWh then lets put it this way, 50kW is the size of the hole on your canister (for energy flow) and 400kWh is the capacity of the canister (for energy). Compare it to a tank of water that has a text on it of 50/4000 with first meaning how much water per hour can flow out of it and second one whats the total capacity. One more? ok, if a house has one door and only two ppl at a time can fit through it then this does not mean the house has a capcity of two, it might be a door to a skyscraper for thousands.
What about the oxidation ,we know that iron will accumulate rust when it is expose to oxidation, does it affect the whole system? Thank you
What is needed to make one of these batteries?
I think solid state batteries still have an advantage over most batteries since they use glass as a separator and are also much safer. So I recommend looking into this theirs many kind of approaches for this, and would like to see a video from you on this, just to get your take on the technology.
Redflow Ltd in Australia has something similar which they called a Zinc Bromine Module (ZBM2) flow battery. They are modular and can be just one for a home or a large number in a container like this one which they call a Large Scale Battery (LSB) rated at 300kW Peak 100kW Continuous/600kWh in only a 20-foot container!
Chinece company BYD specializing in batteries created a CAR using Iron based battery cells. They are heavier but they are also biodegradable and its have a good milage :)
Is there a reasonable recycling process for lithium? It is a frustration to me that we haven't developed a cost effective solution for rare earth metals as there expensive to mine initially.
Is there a salt injector, and how often is it added to the water
where does it get the power to start the pumps to get the solutions to pass over the membranes.
Imagine my surprise when suddenly at 1:46 a wild coal plant appears that is from my home town (Ljubljana) :D Awesome vid & channel!
kibakabul jst sm pa mislu da majo v ameriki isto poslikano k mi :-)
Is this on market now ?
That sounds freaking amazing. Why didn't i hear about this sooner
Do they make cell phone battery’s and are they the same size or are they bigger
What about Commercialization for these Iron Flow batteries? No capacity fade is nice too. How much for one shipping container?
"The sun tends to only shine in the day." Talk about understatement!
the moonshines at night
Could it be opensourced?
Seems like it could be built in your workshop if properly designed
Man, this was super cool! I need to learn more about batteries.
Absolutely brialliant! Loved the vid!
For how long they can keep the charge without a load?
I think this is great! It is really hard to believe the energy companies never thought to store some of the energy they have been making. It is only
what you would think is common sense to help overcome heavy load times.
Good job, this is the need of the hour.
I knew that there had to be a better way to make energy storage a thing of today, not fifty years from now. Thanks guys!
Amazing! More businesses have to know about such option! Thnx.