Crashing Immediately After Landing in New York City (With Real Audio)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- Find out why the McDonnell Douglas MD-88 operating as Delta Air Lines Flight 1086 crashed shortly after landing at LaGuardia Airport in New York City.
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This video has been recorded and edited in 4K resolution and 60FPS.
I dunno... if I had been on that flight I'd have been pretty damned happy with the captain's success at landing everybody without injury and only minor damage to the plane. That was him reacting with experience to a situation that did not match what he was told.
Minor damage? It was totaled. It never flew again and they had to bring in a crane to remove it and put it on a barge. That captain crashed a perfectly functioning aircraft.
@@CLR2TKF oh boo hoo about the plane, I agree with other commenters that he landed with no fatalities, who cares about a plane and the money, obviously you do
@@CLR2TKF NOBODY died. Are you the CEO of the airline or something?
@@CLR2TKF lol that plane had 71000+ flight hours on it. That plane was going to be retired in a couple years for a Boeing 717 anyways. That plane had a good long career.
Well said Don Kelley.
Now i understand that there is a very thin line between a safe landing and a disaster.
The saying among pilots used to be - "if you can walk away from it, it was a landing", so this wasn't a crash !
100% agreed!
Technically, it wasn't crash but a _runway excursion_ folks.
"Crash" is one of those media buzzwords. This was merely a unrequested collision surplus!
'If you can use the Aircraft afterwards, it was a brilliant landing'. The one that was beaten into me was 'All Landings are a crash under control'.
I like the concern the Captain was showing regarding the weather and landing conditions at LGA and his concern was obviously for the safety of his passengers. I'm not faulting him at all. The conditions of that runway were not what he was expecting to see and he had been dealing with a tailwind and had also been told breaking actions were good. He kept the plane from going into the river and all lives were saved. This could have been so much worse. Personally I'm proud of him and his crew.
The NTSB disagrees with you. They were quite critical of this captain's behavior. The plane was leaking fuel after the crash and it took him nearly an hour to evacuate. It's really shameful
@@CLR2TKF Well, no lives were lost so I’d say he’s damned lucky and I’d rather fly with a lucky 🍀 pilot than a poor one.
@Angela G Agreed.
@Angela G And that's why you're not in charge of accident investigations. The NTSB was not proud of that captain. Going around and diverting to JFK or EWR would have avoided the crash. But maybe you can send the NTSB your version of events and they'll change the report and give him a gold star...
@@CLR2TKF you’re not in charge of accident investigations either. Me and Angela love this guy. Wind your neck in mate.
That was a nerve wracking landing. Glad that all were safe.
The captain and first officer showed their concern and did what they could with the information given. I’m glad everyone was ok.
So this video frustratingly leaves a lot of information out. So this information should clear up most viewers questions.
Airline Pilots Association contradicts the NTSB and expresses disappointment in their findings and oversights of other factors that led to the near miss. "The N.T.S.B.’s single probable cause failed to fully and directly acknowledge the multiple factors that contributed to the accident"
29 passengers received minor injuries in the accident, but no one spent anymore than two days in a hospital. There were no fatalities. The aircraft sustained "significant" damage during the off-runway excursion and crash into the earthen dam meant as a barrier to Flushing Bay.
Captain Theodore W Lauer Jr and Co-Pilot David W Phillips both returned to flying after a period of re-training by Delta.
The most significant criticism leveled to the flight crew by the NTSB wasn't the rudder blankening event, but the slow and disorganized response to evacuating the aircraft, in particular, the lack of training and response by the flight attendants in evacuation procedure. They waited over 12 minutes before ordering the evacuation, left their coverage of the emergency exits multiple times out of confusion and lack of communication, allowed passengers to bring down luggage, and it took 17 minutes to get passengers off the plane as it was critically leaking fuel. The disorganized and chaotic response to the evacuation order was captured and uploaded onto youtube.
Thankfully, the NTSB did issue a safety advisory to the FAA and to Boeing over concerns regarding its rudder blankening as well as lack of safety advisories over reverse thruster inputs when outside of safe engine parameters. It also faulted the Port Authority of New Jersey and New York for their lack of hourly weather and runway reports during the two hour period the runway was closed, which was a contributing factor to the stress of the pilot and the accident that followed.
The Port Authority responded three years later in 2018 by suing Delta and Captain Lauer. The suit is still pending action.
NTSB Report: www.ntsb.gov/investigations/accidentreports/reports/aar1602.pdf
disciplesofflight.com/alpa-ntsb-delta-flight-1086-crash/
www.nytimes.com/2016/09/14/nyregion/delta-air-lines-jet-skidded-off-la-guardia-runway.html
news.yahoo.com/delta-accident-related-brake-setting-ntsb-195536049--finance.html
www.reuters.com/article/us-delta-air-port-authority/delta-is-sued-by-port-authority-over-2015-skid-at-new-yorks-laguardia-airport-idUSKCN1GB2Z8
Fascinating; thanks for the additional info!
Thank you for this post accident update as I wondered what happened to the flight crew!
The BEST INFORMATION... right here in the Comments Section!!! Thank you.
Thank you so much for this comment. Glad I have a little extra info, I was wondering what happened to the flight crew and how the port authority responded.
The runway was not cleared properly and they are suing the captain ?
We need to get this guy on Netflix. Awesome as always bro.
Contrary to the picture, there was no fire or explosion as a result of Flight 1086’s runway excursion.
Mark--I just came back inside to rewatch. Unlike some youtubers' videos where the "click-bait" has become the norm, I've always considered TFC as above that.
That thumbnail swam right by me!
To The Flight Channel: Please don't lower your standards just to add subs. Nuff from me!
I agree, I hate all of the clickbait thumbnails on TH-cam today. TFC does not need to go there to get us to watch their great videos.
I agree. If my truck skids off the road into a ditch, I don't consider it a "crash". I realize the wing clipped something here but this doesn't fit the definition of a "crash", much less having flames like the thumbnail suggests.
Keep up your former standards, TFC! Don't be whores to click bait.
I will add another agreement with this, in the hope that he reads the comment section when we join together for constructive criticism.
I scrolled down to the comment section just to see if someone else would be complaining about this. ^ ^ It's really not necessary to add images of what didn't happen. I avoid disaster videos so I almost skipped this one because of the thumbnail image.
Anyone know how the pilots made out? Living in a "snow city", I've seen a cleared road look untouched by the plowing crew 5-10 minutes after moving on. Happy all got off plane in one piece!
Not gonna lie, @TheFlightChannel should use the old musics again, like the one called Olympus or Boundary
What the outro in this video sounds awesome 👌
The music at the end though . . . EPIC!
R.I.P. In memory of all the survivors.
🤣🤣😎
Both the captain and FO were retrained by delta and continued to fly until a few years ago I believe
The first 6 or so MD88's began life as MD82's. MD installed the hybrid glass instruments in the cockpit and flat tail cone. The later MD 88's had composite areas of the fuselage.
FAA AC No: 150/5200-30C which was current at the time of this incident requires airport operators to have a snow and ice control plan in place. The plan at LGA had the tower making assessments as to the need for snow removal and they would stop traffic when they thought the rwy needed to be cleared. In these snowy and low visibility conditions the tower could not see the condition of the runway. Some other airports do it differently. The people in the plow trucks will assess the conditions and call the tower to stop traffic when they think it needs to be cleared.
Pilot did a good job from where I sit. He didn’t slide into the water. 😻🍀👍🏽
I remember this accident...LaGuardia in general is scary...flying out over water scared me to death. And, I never trusted the MD-80s. As for bad conditions...I was on a business trip in Chicago in December with the weather getting bad. My boss put me on the last flight out...I watched the de-icing and then we sat...I was so worried about ice in the wings! Meanwhile, the boss and his VP stayed on the ground and had a fun time once they got rid of me. Looking back, that was a pretty crappy thing to do!
The outro was too impressive 😍😍😍
I'm hooked on this channnel
Love the ending beginning at 13:00. Great video!
1:28 dang bro since 2007! In that year thats when Spiderman three came out and roblox was there in that year
so the thumbnail shows the wing on fire, or close. Yet the plane depicted wasn't seriously damaged, or indication of fuel spill. What is going on to confuse. I love this channel. Always.
Please do a video on Air Canada flight 621 crash in 1970.
hey tfc great video as usual but i have a doubt that an *actual fire* started on the thumbnail which may be a little overdramatic yk
Why does Delta mistreat disabled persons so horribly? This is my wife and I's account of the treatment we received from Delta gate agents and other employee's.
I'm a 100% service connected disabled veteran, whom was denied reasonable accomodation by Delta Airlines on four different flights recently where Delta Airlines and their employees discriminated against me and violated my civil rights.
Unfortunately, I'm dying from End Stage Liver Disease brought on by Non-Alcoholic Fatty Liver Disease, so, Baypines VA RMC booked flights with Delta to Richmond VA RMC for my wife and I to complete final evaluations to get on the National Liver Transplant list.
We flew on 01/30/2022. Our return flights were booked for 02/03/2022. We had called Delta Reservations on 1/23/2022 and 02/02/2022 prior to flying. We were assured both times that Delta could certainly accommodate my request due to my documented disability.
On 01/30/2022 we checked in at TPA to fly to ATL and on to RIC. We were two hours early for each flight where my wife and I were denied each of my requests for reasonable accomodation at every gate.
Delta reservation #'s for myself were F7U6M8- JM726p and for my wife Liz F7VNAV-JM3Y2S
Some of the symptoms of ESLD can be medically dangerously acute, and the edema or fluid retention can be extremely painful and dehabilitating.
My reason for requesting bulkhead seating was because sitting in a no legroom/upright seat causes severe swelling in my legs which imobilizes my lower extremities. I then have great difficulty being ambulatory and the pain increases as the pressure of the built up edema fluids becomes worse and worse.
We had requested to speak with a Delta CRO several times and were told no CRO was available. We possibly had a CRO in RIC, however, she identified herself as a supervisor and did not resolve my repeat
ed requests for reasonable accomodation. Plus, on none of the flights was I approached by a Flight Attendant to ask if I needed help in case of emergency egress.
This whole process has been excruciatingly painful, embarrassing, dehibilitating and has caused me to become bed ridden while my disability has worsened!
We have never been so disrespected or been treated in such an insufferable dehumanizing manner while Delta employees continually denied my repeated requests for reasonable accomodation. We seriously believe, if the Delta employees we asked to help could have cared less about us, they would have! On our last flight home an announcement was made advising everyone on entire plane not to eat peanuts because of a passenger with nut allergies. Why was this person afforded their request for reasonable accomodation while ignoring and denying all my requests?
I learn so much from these that I feel like I could fly a plane, just kidding
These are so beautifully made from the graphics to the music.
Why did the captain stow the thrust reversers away when the plane was still going 93 knots? I've flown many times and reverse thrust continued until the plane was doing about 60. The imbalance between the engines while thrust reversing could be easily corrected by the throttle setting. Pilot error is a big factor in this one. He had time to redeploy the reversers at a lower throttle setting even after he'd stowed them away.
Because he lost directional control due to the airflow over the rudder. So he closed them off in the hope he could regain lateral control. But he was already to late, by this stage.
@@thepumpkingking8339 There was a thrust imbalance between each engine during the reversing, and the FAA report noted that he also used too much throttle, but the pilot easily could have adjusted the throttles and left the reversers deployed until he slowed to 60 knots. The other heavy passenger airliners didn't report any problems with the runway!
In response to a similar post, an MD-88/90 pilot posted that with nothing having worked for keeping the aircraft aligned, the captain may have guessed (wrongly) that a malfunctioning reverser was the reason... and so completely shutting off reverse was the only thing left to try.
Hug from Mozambiqhe
I hadn't heard of this incident. Thanks for covering it. I do have one question. Was there a fire afterward? I don't think so from the video. So why does the thumbnail for this video show the plane with massive flames around it? I'm serious, why would you do that?
I think the problem was that the captain used different values for the left engine and the right engine. The planes would not have have banked left it is was the same.
So less aggressive would have prevented this?
I guess. The analogy is applying too much brakes on your car in snowy conditions. You’ll skid regardless, and if they lock on you it’ll complicate things.
A better design or improved pilot training would have prevented this. A genuine mistake should never lead to an accident in aviation (or really in any industry). Pilots should be trained to always instinctively make the correct decision (such as not exceeding the EPR limits as is what happened here) even in a highly stressful situation. Aircraft should also be designed to tolerate human error and still remain safe if the crew makes a mistake
Was the plane returned to service? Didn’t look like a total loss.
It’s classified as damaged beyond repair so it doesn’t returned to service.
Why is there a 6 day old comment on a video posted 4 minutes ago??
@@arashkamangir331 witchcraft
@@arashkamangir331 Yeah... wtf?
@@arashkamangir331 I am a patreon supporter we get to see the videos before they go public.
Incredible! Two highly skilled, experienced and capable former military aviators doing what they do. I have been along time
sub to this channel and have watched and commented on numerous videos. This the very First Time I have ever seen a "Reverse Thruster"!!
My first thought was that it was a parachute. You learn something new all the time.
I love how delta even in crashes still is little damage
Have zero flight experience, so my question would be when he realized that the runway conditions were different than he was led to believe was it to late to abort the landing?
No. That can occur at least until reverser deployment, depending on the policy of a particular airline.
Tip: you can use msfs 2020 for your videos to increase quality of the video 🙂
So much experience on that flight deck. Just goes to show they're human.
Amazing!
These are great! But I do have one comment: the call numbers don't match from the script to what is on the plane. Makes absolutely NO difference, but you know I won't be the first to notice. (Unless I'M missing something).
I guess that exact tail number is not available as a livery in the flight sim. They probably won't make thousands different planes with the same livery so not all tail numbers exist, but the livery should fit.
@@laulpoecken Yeah, that makes sense. I didn't know if who created the simulation.
Great work by flight deck crew salvaging a possible disaster
Uh....he sorta caused it.
@@lbowsk absolutely. But I think the lack of communication by all played a critical part. No loss of life is most important. Wonder if they kept their jobs?
Why would LGA have planes land with a tailwind? Shouldn't they have landed on Rwy 31 instead?
Pretty darn busy air space to be suddenly changing approach directions when the wind shifts every 15 minutes. 🤷
@@RPG-oh1yf Hmm okay. What I don't get it is that ATC presumably could see that the runway had picked up snow over 30 minutes, which would compromise braking action. Would it not have made sense to put them in a hold until the runway was cleared (regardless of head vs. tailwind)? I'm not an aviation expert, so I'm genuinely curious.
Because that's the runway with the Instrument Landing System. Not the other one. They needed the ILS to get low enough to see the runway.
Can you do Ryan 590? It was a case similar to Air Florida flight 90 occurring in 1991
I have a very good friend who's a Delta capt. I'll ask him about this 🙏🏾
An excellent pilot who was totally concerned about the runway which had snow but controller said braking conditions good.
Pilot error _ my left foot
...and everyone survived"
Is it just me, or do the bulk of these accidents seem to happen in the US? 🇨🇦
Can you update the MOV format to HDR Vision
maybe if he would have put out right speedbreak that might have brought it back. Maybe both speed breaks should have been left out longer.
Flying in snow conditions is quite dangerous
Was there no tiller wheel on this aircraft?
If you've never been on a jet plane sliding in snow upon landing, I can tell you it's a terrifying minute. I never fly commercial now, ever.
my question is - where the passengers compensated? in theses instances of a "CRASH" yet no life loss what is the airline on the hook for - or do you just de plane and go on with your life
Did training include what happens with too much ground reverse thrust with respect to rudder control?
Respect 71195
You should make a video on the Stevie ray vaughan helicopter crash
They are not paid big bucks…Our neighbor flies for AA he a retired Colonel from 104th FW 3500+ hours in the A-10 + instructor at Holloman AFB..he makes a little under 100,000…
There is a difference between crashing and going off a runway.
I am assuming everyone was OK?
Did everyone survive? Did the plane get repaired and put back into service?
it sucks having to read everything and not being able to watch the video
Everyone lived.
And crapped their pants.
Note that I his was made during the airport’s renovations. Just excuse it.
Where is the crashing part?
Sir Creat a Vedio Airo Republica Flight 7730 What happen This Flight when he Land the runway and Overrun
Story:Detla airlines was a normal flight to fly to U.S.A And when I touched down It over ran and no on died
I did not touched down MiSTAKE Real word:It
Again Last word one
AGAaiN It YAWED to the left
App?
I know it's rather obvious but I still like to see "everyone survived" at the end. Please don't omit it.
Why would you show it burning in thumbnail? The things people do for views is sub-pathetic.
Should of left the reverse thrusters on....what do i know...lol
Strange accident
Stole all of this from Allec?
where is the conclusion?? injuries? any fatalities? this is a messy video. disappointed
Cloooooose call.
Well at least nobody died.
I like the video. The music, not so much.
So they blame the captain for this as well?
The fact that he got the plane to land on a runway (covered with snow) after it skids and deviates off the runway should be applauded for.
It's a habit of the NTSB, is a pilot performs any less than by the book they'll get some blame unless the accident is deemed inevitable even if the pilot did 100% ok. I understand that they want to remove human factors from accidents but sometimes they go too far on blaming the crew that they miss the core situation that created the accident in the first place. Heck they tried to blame Sully for the accident on the Hudson, but eventually they had to concede that considering the situation it was the best course of action.
@MaxM2000 yeah but in order to learn they shouldn't be fired. Hope it was not the case here.
I get the same thing at work as a lot do in high pressure, high risk jobs. Monday morning QBs who don’t actually perform your job. They’re quick to blame for every little mistake but had he not land he would’ve probably got a talking to.
@MaxM2000 technically they never "blame" anyone. They only list "contributing factors" in order of priority. But sometimes they get so affixed to specific factors that they miss more important factors or even the core factor.
The ATR icing incidents are examples of that. The investigations focused too much on pilot error as the primary factor that they didn't notice that the manufacturer was trying to cover up a design defect on their anti icing systems. After more incidents happened finally the investigation focused on the performance of the anti icing systems. It went to a point that there was an airworthiness directive banning ATRs from operating in any possible icing conditions until the anti icing systems were properly redesigned.
He’s ex military. I’m sure he can handle a brow beating.
It's incredible how one isolated incident can taint the career of a pilot despite years of otherwise excellent and safe flying. I guess that's why they are paid the big bucks. At least he wasn't showboating or being reckless, he made a genuine mistake and no-one was hurt. Hope he went on to fly another day, bet he did.
Paid big bucks? Hardly…
@@ianrivaldosmith lmao what? I have a friend who is a FO for Delta and he makes triple digits. They do make good money and if you think otherwise, you should do some research.
@@ianrivaldosmith Thats true with young pilots, but Senior Captains at major airlines make well into $300,000 range, putting them into the top 5% of earners (U.S.) .
@@sm_flys Who cares?!?? He probably left shortly afterwards and lives on his boat🙄
@@vernonsmithee792 i mean it is fact
Your movies are getting so amazingly beautiful, you should get awards for this. Absolutely love your channel and your graphics. You are a star.
Beautiful graphics.
I thought this was all done on MS flight simulator?
@@Dad_Brad it is, it's done on P3D
@@Dad_Brad lol, just let people pay their respects; most aren't aware of how it's done, but enjoy the content. ☮️
But a bit too technical most of the time or details that make me skip till about take off.
I was (and still am) living in a neighborhood quite close to the airport, when I heard about the incident, LGA services closed for a day or 2, hearing again about the incident via viewing this video reminded me of the day of the accident, it was pretty snowy in Queens, so you couldn’t really see much of LaGuardia due to the weather. At least there were no fatalities.
I miss queens
@@JAYSTAR354 Then go too West Hollywood.😂😂😂
Those of us living in Queens heard of and saw the remnants of many LaGuardia "mistakes" over the years. Especially memorable were the front page newspaper photos of runway "overruns", showing airplanes halfway submerged.in Flushing Bay w/1 or 2 deaths.
@@JAYSTAR354 {{Not so much if you moved to FL.}}
@@jessicasnaplesfl7474 Well, despite the accidents, I enjoy LGA, its a nice airport (despite the difficulty of landing), there can be a lot of "scenery" when it comes to the approach path. In august of 2020, I was with my mother approaching KLGA from KOKC, we flew over queens and Manhattan, allowing many to view the tall buildings near the airport, and then being able to see the nice lake next to the airport.
Don't blame the Captain. He was surprised to see snow on his runway when he expected it to be cleared off and he was unsure of the braking distances. He was rightfully afraid of flying off LaGuardia's short runway into Flushing Bay, and a fairly strong tailwind added to his concern. That's the reason for his aggressive reverse thrusters. He hoped to counteract what he saw as an unexpected increase of danger due to poor conditions.
I find fault with the design of this very successful airplane. The rudder and steering controls should NOT become ineffective when subjected to the wash from the highest power of the reverse thrusters. (This is like having the brakes of an automobile fail when its speed exceeds 120 mph+ on a car with a top speed of 200 mph.) This design leaves little margin for perceived extreme circumstances like those experienced by these pilots that led the Captain to maximize the reverse thrusters. Pilots are humans too. He turned on those reverse thrusters IMMEDIATELY when the main gear touched the runway, showing his mindset of being SUPER-CONCERNED with STOPPING in time.
Perhaps the Captain's heightened concern was partially due to LaGuardia's bad reputation and consistent posting of accident photos in the media over decades of airplanes running off LaGuardia's runways into Flushing Bay or the East River on takeoff or landing and other accidents on or around LaGuardia. Half of Long Island's and Queens' daily commuters pass by LaGuardia and regularly experience low flying airplanes only a few feet over their cars and the fence that separates the airport from the parkway.
***I was pushing BOTH my feet heavily into the floor in front of the couch where I was seated while watching the seemingly unchecked speed of this airplane dashing down LaGuardia's runway. It didn't seem to slow down. Much credit due to FLIGHT CHANNEL'S VIDEOGRAPHER! I was THERE!
Make me wonder why he didn't go around or divert.
@@Number-ju1nl I thought the same thing. JFK airport is only a few miles away and both have good easy access to Manhattan. JFK is a much better airport.
Maybe more airport fees or having to compensate the passengers with money or free flights for diverting. But get down safe with no damage or fatalities then worry about it. But it's easy to say what you should have done after. Happy to see no deaths!
@@Number-ju1nl Luckily they DID get down safely. I don't know the story with JFK airport but we don't hear of many LaGuardia flights diverting to JFK. They seem determined to land at LaGuardia but for the passengers, both airports are easily accessible and do not require changes of plans, except for those people picking them up.
Agree about not providing the most up to date into to the pilots especially given the conditions. Maybe the pilot didn’t divert because of air traffic or availability. Dunno that part. Also not sure if a touch and go was possible. Once he decided to apply a strong reverse thrust, I think he was all in for landing.
I live a short drive away from LGA. I've flown to and from quite a bit of domestic airports. By far, LGA is my least favorite airport to fly into because of the short runway that sits on Flushing Bay. It's not that I don't trust the pilots, it's just that I have a fear of deep water. Flying so close to the water while landing, especially in less than ideal weather is not my idea of adrenaline rush.
I was on this flight and needed new underwear when we finally got off that plane
Your videos and channel are so great. You don’t need fireball clickbait in each thumbnail.. also it’s like 3 seconds of real audio. Your content alone makes people want to watch.. just saying you don’t need all that ❤️✈️ Love from NJ
oh, 3 seconds? I must have spaced out and missed it.
Anyone that has ever landed at LaGuardia and utilized runway 31 knows all too well what a harrowing ride it can be. The fact that the Captain managed to stop the plane without breaking up is nothing short of a miracle.
I never realised there were different values and different ways of using thrust reversers. I thought you just selected them and that was that. I’ve heard they don’t contribute that much to the breaking anyway. I think I’d rather have a Captain who overdid the breaking and ended up in a bank of snow, to one that didn’t break hard enough for the conditions and ended up in a ravine, broken into about 3 pieces.
I don't know about MD-80s, but in my experience as a passenger on other airliners, the effect of thrust reversers is like a giant hand yanking the plane backwards. Hard to miss.
@@danpatterson8009 I relate to this, but actually most of that work is done by the brakes. The reverse thrust only accounts for 30-40% of braking action.
@@YAboss1243 yes, I once thought thrust reversers were the only brakes the plane had! However, it was a pilot who told me they were by no means the most effective brake on the plane.
@@DST.73 quite. I don’t think you can fault anyone if they thought was best for safety at the time. I sometimes wonder if airlines care more about a damaged plane than damaged passengers.
@@DST.73 With inboard mounted engines, trying to steer by varying engine thrust would be more difficult than with outboard engines.
I work at LGA and was working that day when this happened. I saw the plane sitting on the embankment across from Terminal C. Some of the uninjured pax were taken into the airline's club room for complimentary refresments...im guessing. The plane was eventually taken to one of American Airlines' hangar while they did the investigation and repairs. It sat in there for months. I was told the airplane had sentimental value to Delta as it was their first MD-88. I don't know what became of the plane after it was repaired. I do know it was was a snowy day that day, much like it is here today and there's very little room for error at LGA. "USS LGA" they call it.
I’m glad it happened flying an airplane almost 30 years old
Apparently, the damage to the plane was substantial and it was ultimately written off.
@@evenmoor Plus, they were getting ready to retire those aircraft from the fleet.
Yea that plane was scrapped they also dropped it inside the hanger apparently while on a crane n the fuselage was slightly twisted beyond limits
Delta still fly those old MD-88 planes. 35 years old. They should scrap those MCDonnell junks long ago.
An interesting little known fact about this incident is that there was a small risk of becoming a total air disaster like Tenerife. When Delta landed and departed the runway, there was damage to the radio bay under the cockpit that rendered the airplane's radios unusable, so Delta could not tell the tower what happened. In addition, the visibility was poor enough that the tower could not see what happened. The flight approaching behind Delta was already cleared to land before Delta had even touched down. It took another plane taxiing nearby to tell the tower about what had happened for the tower to tell the subsequent flight to go around. Had this lucky event of having another plane nearby not happened, the subsequent flight would have landed with Delta disabled next to the runway. Most likely still nothing bad would have happened yet, since Delta was clear of the runway. But this incident highlights the risks of having 2 airplanes cleared to operate on the same runway at the same time, especially in conditions of poor visibility where the tower can't see the whole runway. In many parts of the world, ATC doesn't give landing clearances in anticipation that the runway will be cleared by when the airplane touches down. Instead, ATC tells the pilot to continue the approach and expect a late landing clearance. Only when the runway is actually clear and expected to remain clear (i.e. there is nobody on the runway and nobody else is or will be cleared to use or cross the runway), the landing clearance is provided. In conditions of poor visibility and without a ground radar, that includes the previously landing plane self-reporting clear of the runway. If the pilot continues the approach has not received the landing clearance, they cannot land, they have to go around, without the need of being told to do so.
why there are no cameras on runways where the weather is known to hinder visibility of the tower?
i don't expect the tower personel to look at them, but somebody else when conditions are this bad
@@dmor6696 ... Why would you add infrastructure, headcount, and potential points of failure, when all it takes is withhold the landing clearance until the runway is actually clear?
The Delta did vacate the runway, quicker than usual
@@dmor6696 cameras show fog when it’s foggy
The sound effects were 🔥🔥🔥today!!! DAAAAAMMMMNNNNNN!!!
When the notification pops up I'm here ,you are truly doing a great job 👏 🙌 also praying for peace in this 🌎 world
I am a student pilot myself and I feel like if they saw snow on the runway, then they should have gone around or just diverted somewhere else, because if you're really that concerned, maybe it wouldn't be a very good idea. I still applaud those pilots for being able to touch down correctly and even slow down. I also applaud this guy for being able to make amazing videos like this, still. If you can see this, TFC, hello! I have been here since P3D 3.4.1!
Did they first see the snow on the runway after they were below the decision altitude?
Operating jets in the snow is part of the job. If you go somewhere else every time the runway is contaminated you will be on a first-name basis with your Chief Pilot. Perhaps if he hadn't blanked the rudder with excess reverse this video might never have been made. He touched down 600 feet from the runway threshold. That's just about brick one. "Snow on the runway" is not a reason to divert.
They should have probably gone around (I'd like to think that would've been my call), but the flight crew was also given conflicting information about field conditions, KLGA is a freakin awful airport, in general, with just two intersecting runways that are too short (~7000 feet apiece) with water on three sides; weather conditions were pretty terrible and the aircraft was heavy. Frankly, the biggest problem is LGA itself: the runways should have been extended long ago, by at least 2,000 feet. The problem is it would require landfill and a billion EPA studies, possible use of Rikers, etc., so it will never happen. I wont even go into the nonsense of 31 still being localizer only, no glidescope (last I checked) - I mean seriously, you have a 7000 foot runway being used by commercial aircraft, with water on both ends, how the hell do they not have full ILS!?
You'll read that LGA doesn't have an abnormally high incident rate, but that's only because every pilot operating at that airport is exceptionally careful, not because the airport, in its current configuration, is inherently safe (it isn't). One of these days, there will be a truly catastrophic overrun event. All the warning signs about LGA being unsafe are there, but like many dangerous things, it will only be dealt with when something bad enough happens. In the meanwhile, go through JFK or EWR instead.
Well he’s not flying a fighter jet with touch and go capabilities, and he committed to the landing even after seeing snow on the runway, so he had to land. It’s just that one decision to apply too strong of a reverse thrust. I agree you can’t always divert whenever conditions aren’t pristine.
@@petersaccocia4510 : After.
Curious as to why ATC had planes making tailwind landings in slippery conditions.
RWY 31 does not have an ILS.
NTSB also cited the breaking by the Captain as heavily contributing to the incident. Almost sounds like if it were any other model this may not have happened.
Yes. The MD88, unlike the MD90, had horrid brakes. These brakes were steel based, as opposed to carbon on the 90. They got hot and would "chatter" on the ground. They were not very effective at higher speeds. Add in the rudder issue, with reverse thrust over 1.3 EPR, and you have what happened. I'm surprised it didn't happen more often.
I flew from Louisiana to O'Hare one winter. We didn't have snow in LA and it wasn't until we approached O'Hare that we were told the airport had just reopened. It had closed down due to a snowstorm. We didn't divert because-not sure why, so the plane landed and, as it did, it did a little skid, like a fishtail skid and I just held onto my armrests and prayed for the plane to hold together and for the flight crew's abilities. Along the way with our landing, I saw a plane that had gone off the runway into the median, so I held on tighter to the armrests and we stopped and were just fine, Thank God! I think I left claw marks in those armrests, though! LOL!
Not to worry, the runways and taxiways at O'Hare are MASSIVE and even if you skid off into the median, it is I believe to be 2 or 3 square miles of dirt/grass/flat.
@@Hiei2k7 I live in the Windy City and people don’t realize how massive ORD really is. When you drive by it often as I do (will again tomorrow) it literally looks like its own city. Just a monstrous area dwarfing Midway which is a few miles southeast.
@@Hiei2k7 not like LGA where if the crew misjudges, you're taking a swim.
@@wolfofwacker4578 Everyone I know shudders at flying through OHare because traffic/too many gates/etc. The worst part of OHare to me is the fact that the taxiing takes forever because the field is so huge.
@@Hiei2k7 I try to avoid it and fly out of midway when I can
You didn’t add the "and everyone lived" I’m sure this was a small oversight in a otherwise fantastic video and I don’t know why it bothers me so much, but it really does, you always include the death count Or and everyone lived at the end, apparently I need this.
Same here. "They all survived" ties up the video; whether they were all unhurt/some injured is obvious or not..
Everyone survived?
What about the plane?
Everyone survived, sometimes he do not write that, but with no „In memory of…“ everyone survived
I heard this joke before but think it applies here- everybody lived, except the captain's underwear.
Way to “brake” it to me gently when I’m literally headed to Seattle in a week
TechSan-YT - Considering the subject of the video....don't you mean:
"Way to BRAKE it to me"?
@@christopherweise438 Thanks for the reminder
👏 👏 👏
All of these videos, reminds me of a time I was coming in to land at Dulles. The 'world' suddenly tilted and I heard the engines screaming full-power. Didn't take a genius to figure out what had just happened. Sure enough, after a few moment's, the Captain came on and said " Sorry about that folks. Somebody else had that runway in mind". Never forgot that. Not with the close call.. I'm Military and that goes with the job. It was the way he handled it. Professional and curt. Very nicely done, all around.
Regardless, I live in NYC. LaGuardia is the worst airport on Earth!