The most upsetting line has got to be " Maybe if I'd met you sooner my life would be different' " "Maybe it will be" Unfortunately time told a different story. I really missed Joe and Frank in season 4. :(
The perfect ending would be right at the end of Season 4 (final season), where all is well with the world (i.e. Nazis defeated), and juliana is drinking at a bar and is going to pay, but Joe makes a cameo and says "'I'll pay", they smile and then the series ends...
OMG yes. Why did he have to become evil and they made her kill him. He was such an interesting character. And also Frank... How he had to die... And on top of that, they made Juliana become so cold. Aaargh damnit
I’m waiting for season 4 to bring us Joe from another reality. Either he travels to her or she travels to find him somewhere else at the end somewhere he is a good man from start to end
I think Joe's character development is really interesting. He was pretty neutral at the beginning of the series but then slowly turned into a straight up Nazi. It's what happened to a lot of people in Germany back then. The people were influenced. Influenced by propaganda, by the media, by other people etc. He believed that he could be part of something bigger than himself. There were constantly people telling what to do and how to behave that that's what he started believing in and I think that that's the sad part. They really deserved so much better. Just like he said, maybe if he did meet Juliana way before this, then he might have been a different person and not full of hate and obedience
Waited so long to see how they'd find each other again. You built their love and bond up for three fucking seasons. So much of the plot was tied to their connection and how it transcended across the multiverse. I know she killed him in the main reality, but seriously, WTF!?!?! Instead, you force fed us Wyatt and Juliana down to the bitter end. Anyone wondering why Juliana went from being a somewhat complex (yes, there is a lot about her that sucks) to one dimensional character in the final season? I feel betrayed. I'm way more disappointed with the ending of this series than I was with GoT. I saw that ending from light-years away. I was way more emotionally invested in MITHC and now I have to live knowing we got a dumpster fire of an ending for it. SMFH...RIP Joe. I, and I'm sure a lot of other people, really wanted you and Juliana to end up together in the end. Now, it will only exist in fanfics.
For me the death of joe was the death of the show, they kill it now is just going to go around and around endlessly on bs. The show is dead Rest In Peace
At least is confirmed that he will be in season 4, I really hope that Juliana finds another Joe from other world because since the beginning I knew that they should end up together
the point of it was to show that the nazi re-education programs works bc it turned him into a completely different person. make me really wish I stopped watching after season 1 tho
Hey. It's Incredibly touching. One of the best videos about them. Seriously, I had tears in my eyes at the end. For me they were the heart of the series, it was a bright ray of hope passing a thin line through the whole story, although there were many obstacles between them and now I'm so broken because of what the writer did to them. One of the most doomed ships in my opinion, but even if they were doomed I think they should have killed him at the end of the show and given us more time with them. Very unfair. In any case, they are forever in my heart and thank you for such a wonderful video that I will review many many times. =)
This is one of the best, if not the BEST, compilation videos of Joeliana out there! Thank you for putting this together! Hoping we’ll see them reunited in season 4. 💞
I started to cry at 0.30 whe he said her name. and i continued the whole time. so thank you ;-) It's amazing video! I truly, deeply, love Joe&Julian. I don't care what happened in the show: THEY are together in parallel universe. they do
Chill the f out people, the show is a sci-fi that brings people back from the dead, do you really think they wouldn't bring back the deuteragonist? The writers and producers are delighted with the feedback, they want to build up the hype, if the couple estagnated into a pretty normal relationship there wouldn't be any magic left, you gotta keep things sparking
Not if they want to replace him, which by the looks of it is what they are doing since they introduced Wyatt and he took Joe's place in the rest of season 3.
I stumbled across this because I can’t find any of compilation video between these two. I have to say Joe’s death was probably the most shocking one. Btw I love this video.
I was just binge watching season 3 tonight, and stopped watching when Joe died. I'll wait to find out if he's in Season 4 before I finish watching anymore episodes.
WTF i just watched joe die and i’m so done with this show, i loved them and they massacred his chance for redemption, this is depressing, i was literally only watching for him UGHHHH
@@khaosgoettin not really, she emotionally cheated on him with Joe first, did everything to ruin his life. Also she forced Frank to give up his life for Joe. She had an option to end the relationship, but she just used Frank and he just ended up without a head.
I still can't believe what they did. All the development thrown out the window for the sake of drama. They completely destroyed his character and the heart of the show just to shock the audience. Well I'm shocked, so shocked in fact that I'm done with the show. I will never forgive them for what they did and not making Joe into an agent for the resistance after all the signs of him seeing that the Nazi's are wrong. I do have a theory, or more like me being hopeful. That the Joe we saw die wasn't the Joe that we knew. My theory and hope is based on something that I've noticed during the first episode of season 3. In shows or movies I like to see if the people who make them pay attention to the continuity of a scene. Which either they didn't or they hopefully made it that way. If you remember we saw Joe being tortured and he had long hair and a beard, then we see him again and guess what, the long hair is gone and so is the beard. Now either the crew didn't think of it or wasn't paying attention to such a thing. Or some other explanation behind the scenes. Or maybe, just maybe Joe is a traveler and somehow switched places with another Joe. I know, I know it's far fetched and the theory has major flaws, trust me I know all of them (including the one where the Nazis filmed him), but I can't find a single writer's explanation for what they did to Joe and the relationship with Juliana. I know about the book, but the show has pretty little in common with it so saying it happened in the book doesn't fly. The Joe that we followed would've never gone anything to hurt Juliana and the Juliana we followed would never hurt Joe. This season we followed two completely different characters.
What I took from it, was what she said to him before she killed him... Every single tape, every single timelime, he is who kills her, then he kills himself... He didn't even argue the point that that woudn't end like that... It was heading right back to that end point in this one... So she HAD to take that chess piece off the board, to change the end game and send it a different direction regardless of how she felt... At least I feel that's where the show was going with that... I hated that end for him as well though...
@Beavernator I get that and I also thought about that as well, and even if it was done for that reason alone, I still have problems with it. No matter its purpose. First of all we don't quite know and neither do the characters what these films really represent. It's clear that the story has time travel elements, but they haven't explained if those films are possible outcomes or whatever is shown does happen but somewhere else in another universe, and no matter what you can't change that because that's not your universe. I know season 2 ending, but Hawthorne's theory was based on what he saw, not an absolute fact. Same with Juliana here, she took those films at face value and decided that's the only outcome even though things were different in her world than the films. That's why I said she became so obsessed with those films. She didn't think at all. If she actually wanted to avoid that outcome, they should've showed it, but they made Juliana act like she wanted the events in that film to happen. She just blindly followed them. Secondly I have problems when writers kill off main characters for whatever reason. Recently they've been doing it for the shock value. Especially when the character actually had development. If Joe didn't show any remorse or any change in his character, then killing him wouldn't be such a big thing. But he showed that he didn't follow the Nazi mentality, he was different and wanted to be different. For two seasons they development that, I do admit it wasn't great, but it was there. And to throw all of that away for drama and maybe the possibility that he did indeed die for Juliana to live. That's bad writing. If him dying was the only option to save Juliana, then they should've given him that option. To sacrifice himself for Juliana, or continue on this path and both die. For example have him watch those films and decide that the only option is for him to die. Not have Juliana murder him. I know this version of Joe did show that he doesn't value his life anymore. And I have a problem with that as well. :) The guy was so broken over his father that he couldn't even stand and wanted nothing to do with him and only stayed because he thought he could change things, and the 6 months in prison. And all of that made him want to consider killing himself (ok he killed his own father, but again he never had much of relationship with him to begin with), to seeing that the Nazi's are right, to being perfectly ok with murdering God knows how many billions of people, and then he threatens Juliana with a gun to her head. This is the girl that he did everything he could to protect her, she changed him as he said and as we saw, he quit the Nazi's the second Smith told him she died, this is the girl he proclaimed he loves/loved. And the second Smith tells him she's alive, he instantly jumps in with no proof needed. From all of that to what he became. Yeah, that's not even remotely the same character that we followed. I get it he was tortured in prison, but that doesn't work. It doesn't stay true to his character, to what he showed before. You can't just change a character so much and expect the viewers to just go with it. This is not character growth or regression, this is character assassination. For Joe and Juliana. Not to mention the romance subplot which was hinted multiple times quite heavily.
@@NostradAlex My main issue with the show , is that Phillip K. DICK never wrote a second book that the showrunners could use as inspiration... They could never come up with something along his level of thinking... Still, I'm happy to have anything near this quality... I'll ride it out...
@Beavernator I can see that. Honestly after watching season 3, I understood at what level they are. I still hope that maybe, just maybe they actually have a well thought out plan and they know what they are doing, but even so for me the show is over. I'm not going to watch season 4. I'll check a summary of what's in it, because that hope is still there. But I think they've lost a lot of people with this season.
Guys, GUYS, GUUUUUYZ!!!! I got a theory that can explain what happened, and, even more, give us hope! So, considering what was shown in the 3 season, we were expecting at least two more seasons to conclude all the story lines. We had the storyline of Michelle Dörmer, a propaganda filmmaker, who was arrested by Himmler for being in a relationship with Thelma Harris, the journalist, remember? We had Ed, who was put into a homosexual relationship exactly to tear attention to his character. He also mentioned he had feelings for Juliana, with the subtext "to be continued" (otherwise, what for?). We had Trudy Walker, Juliana's alt-sister, who was one of the key characters and had a very important place in the show. We had the "Catholic" commune, wich must have been brought up to figure as an independent entity alongside the BCR and the American resistance. One of the dumbest is the part with the girl who survives the Portal and travels to the other world during the early testings by the Nazis. Being an important event on its own, I would still not make such a fuss about it, but she was given extra time, with Hawthorne talking about her, saying something like: "But she, she is no ordinary girl. No ordinary people can walk through that portal. You will hear about her, John." And the face of the character being zoomed in for nothing else, but so that we could remember it and recognize her later. It was clear that she had an important upcoming role. I'm sure there were many others, that I forgot of, please write them in the comments. We also had the whole Jahr Null thing. But, of course, our main complaint is the death of the two key characters: Joe Blake and Frank Frink. In any other circumstances, it would mean that we lost those two and we would be fairly demotivated to watch the rest of the show. BUT before they are killed, we are introduced the Portal and the story of Thomas aka the plots magical ability to revive its characters. That's why we were not really upset with it. It was clear, that, since there is the alternate universe(s), such important characters MUST reprise. It was clearly the message of the third season. The fact that the two, Joe and Frank, are not just important, but key characters is proven by that the chemistry between Joe and Juliana, Juliana and Frank, Frank and Joe, was the reason all the fateful decisions and, consequently, plot twists, took place. It was the basis of the whole story, the reason to the events, that constituted the series! And the main essence of the show was that, despite propaganda, regimes and brain-washing, love, of all kinds, can do miracles. Okay, I understand why the killed Tagomi -- to create a dissonance for Kiddo and make him question his values. And, alas, none of these characters were even mentioned in season 4. "What kind of writers create the solid of the plot, premisses for promising storylines and then destroy them by themselves?!" you ask. I think I have the answer. The directors MEANT to conclude the series properly. Season 4 was meant to unfold, not to wrap up. There are two possible reasons this didn't happen. Number one: replacement of the directors and/or writers. The new team may have had another view on the way the series should end and what paths should characters take. Number Two: unexpected financing cut/ series shutdown and the associated with them necessity to fold the show up within 10 episodes. This is the most likely one. I think that, roughly, that's what they've been told:"Okay, we have bad news for you. Unlike what we all thought, the show can't be renewed for ... reasons, so you have to quickly wrap it up. But let's not make the ending too firm, because, yes, we don't have money right now, but, who knows, we were a successful show, with a loyal audience and a good plot, we may be given the chance to proceed in the future. We need to leave unanswered questions to keep the intrigue in case we will be renewed. So, long story short, give it an ending but with the opportunity for a spin-off". It's a common practice in the movie industry, to end each season so, that it could be that last and not the last at the same time, so I'm not completely insane)) Even more, with that theory, everything becomes reasonable. With only one season to spare, they had to choose the minor (relatively, of course) storyline (the John and Thomas's) to conclude and to leave the major one (Juliana and Joe's (and Frank's)) unfolded, because they a) didn't have enough screen time for it to conclude it (that's for sure, even without my theory) and b) needed to leave some doors open. Bonus: this may sound insane, but I like to think of it as a validation for my theory)) Now, in the season 4, Juliana has visions, and in one of them, she sees a hexograme, which meaning she discovers to be "not yet complete". Throughout the season, the hexograme doesn't appear until the last episode, in which, too, it doesn't seem to tally with the circumstances. What else can it be other than a hint to the deliberate loose ends, left by the creators themselves. Also, in the vision, Juliana sees blur silhouettes appearing on the horizon. What else can it refer to, other than the people coming out of the Portal in the end of the series? These scenes are so out-of-context, I have to believe they were left specifically for the vigilant viewers. So yeah, that's my theory and it for sure will keep me going. Share it and let's see what other fans will think about it (and who knows, maybe even what the creators will have to say about it).
honestly, they ruined season 4 so bad, that it made me wish i never watched the show! they developed their relationship and joe just to wreck it. It makes me feel so angryyyy
Hey I'm a year late and just came here after finishing the season 4 finale. Like everyone, it is severely disappointing. I gotta tell you that I took a year break from the show mid way into season 3 because it just didn't interest me. I resumed last week and finished the final season in 2 days just to save the pain. Wow! I mean game of thrones was a letdown but at least it was successful for 7 seasons! How the writers gave up on TMITHC since the beginning of season 3 is beyond me. I honestly forgot a bit about Joe and Juliana's story but I have to say this was beautifully made and did remind me of the good times in seasons 1 and 2 where the story was interesting and the characters were engaging. While I was a big fan of Smith's storyline, it was supposed to be Joe and Juliana till the end! I still can't believe how fast they wanted to get rid of Joe. You can make the case for his turning, but I feel more development was definitely needed. You don't turn from lovebirds to crazy town in a couple episodes. In regards to Smith, I do have to give the show some credit for showing more of his struggle between the Reich and his family in the last couple of seasons. However in the last few episodes, the finale especially, did not do him justice AT ALL! If they gave up on Juliana's arc, they could have at least saved some part of the show; ie giving John Smith a proper ending, instead of him killing himself?? So out of the blue. Back to Juliana. It's almost like a stab in the gut because Juliana is very pretty and her personality was extremely versatile in the first couple of seasons. A character like her doesn't deserve to be written off like this as a boring and uninterested part of the show. I will go as far as to say her character arc/story was destroyed in a worser way than Daenerys. It is truly heartbreaking to know there are actual people who are working on the show and do not care about the story and only about the paychecks that are coming in. It is clear that they had no thought of the audience in the final 2 seasons. A sense of direction in the show was lost in season 3 and they tried to make up for that in season 4 which made it obviously unsatisfying. Would love to hear how you felt of the last season....I know you posted 2 years ago, but I am extremely disappointed. This show was supposed to be Amazon's break into the film industry! Don't know how they could give it up like that. I could see the show going for a length and a fanbase like Game of Thrones if it was directed and produced properly with CARE. I don't think I've ever watched a show as incomplete and with as much wasted potential as this.
Hi I've returned and I want to ask, would it be ok with you if I posted another comment here? I ask because it's quite long. Similar in length to my comment on the teaser. Thanks.
ill give my unpopular opinion. I'll actually admit that I had no problem with Juli killing Joe, it was all pointing to Joe killing Juli in the end, what do you guys truly expect from someone who was tortured for months to warp his way of viewing the world? I very much preferred the relationship between Frank and Juli if Im honest here. Frank in my opinion was perhaps one of the most relateable characters from the show, and one of the characters with the most character development in the entire series. I'll have to admit though, I liked Joe's development when he was with his father, but thats pretty much about it. Sadly for me, Joe was too much of a generic character, and in that sense, admittedly similar to Juliana. I must say though, what truly made this series great was Kido, John Smith, Tagomi and Frank, Julianne and Joe felt like side characters to me.
Can someone give me the name of the music in this? Also, this show did what Ozark did to me. They killed off my favorite character and I couldn’t go on 😭
I absolutely loved this! can you by any chance send me the link where you got access to the man in the highcastle for editing, i typaclly use logoless because even with a VPN for torrent downloads i still get emails from my internet provider.
So disappointed in Season 4... no Joe (appears for literally 1s in a flashback) and terrible story Season 1-3 was so good, and 4 had so much potential, but turned out so bad
They introduce new characters and resistance members and a majoriry of the story is about the things they do. But frankly I really didn't feel attached too or care about them. I was looking forward to more travelling and using it in a creative way to create a nice story but there's literally none of that. Juliana literally goes to the world for a while and sees the "nice guy john Smith"(as shown in the trailer) and then comes back. And that's all she ever travels, no exploration, no more learning about travelling, no Trudy, tagomi or kotomichi or any other travelers appear. I was really looking forward to them having some interesting travelling adventures and using what they learnt to solve the situation in their world. But none of that happens.... It's literally just resistance Vs the Japanese and Nazis doing their boring resistance things noone cares about. To be honest the main story arc that kept me going was John Smith and his family, but even that really wasn't that great.
I just wish I knew what happened. What caused them to ruin the show. I mean I know the creator and showrunner Frank Spotnitz was fired during the production of season 2 because he was spending too much money on it and he was replaced for seasons 3 and 4. But still did absolutely no one who remained on the team thought about what they were doing? Were they against Spotnitz from the very beginning? And were they even against themselves? Because it sure looks like it. Who thought that people wanted to see new boring characters in the last season? You don't introduce new characters in the last season and focus your story on them. That's not how writing works.
@@NostradAlex Yea it was terrible... And a lot of the things that built up on were not even addressed. E.g. the fact that Juliana was the same good person across all versions of the multiverse was barely touched upon, when in the early seasons so much emphasis was put upon Juliana being a very special constant person across all the films, and that being the key to fixing their reality. Nothing about that was even really explored on and we don't even get to see Juliana in the different worlds. We also know nothing about travelling. Tagomi and Trudy, possibly even kotomichi especially could have had an interesting role this season teaching her about the different worlds but they were non existent. So many things, even julianas relationship with tagomi in the other world was not exploited. It just became a boring story of a reistance fighting against a bad guy who's struggling with his conscience.
@Tim Sherman Yeah I don't even know what to say. I mean what do you say to such a stupid thing? It just shows that the new showrunner and the ones remaining on the team had no idea what they were doing and none of them even payed attention to what came before. They just had their own agenda they wanted to push and focused on that and everything else be damned. Juliana's relationship with Tagomi is something that makes me laugh so much because of how stupid they handled it. Literally the previous season they said that Juliana and Tagomi have this deep bond. And they kill Tagomi off screen. I don't even have the words to quantify how stupid this whole thing is. It became something that no one wanted to see.
Well, at least Amazon gave us a finale, not like Netflix that brought good storys with original productions through streaming services but leave those proyects very fast. From my perspective, season 4 wasn’t that bad, but the only thing that bother me is that they cut many interesting characters from the show, like Joe Blake, Frank Frink, the scary bountihunter from the first episode; I mean they could explote those characters with the paralel universo theory or with a deep writing that show us both sides of the coin (our own reality and the other one, where the show takes place).
I’m back again and we are less than 2 weeks until season 4 is upon us. And once again I have something to say. Now this isn’t something new that I discovered recently. I wanted to say this for months now, but unfortunately things in life kept intervening and prevented me from writing. Life is life after all, right? And I’ve been promising a friend for months now, but I always failed to deliver on my promise to her, but not anymore. So shall we begin? Now what I’m about to say isn’t something that I 100% came up with, obviously someone else already came to this conclusion before me. However I’m the most obsessed with it, to the point where I became more obsessed with it than Juliana became with those films. I’m the one who delved into this to the extreme. I need help. Some months ago I mention something similar, but I never delved into it like I’m about to do now. Short version in case someone is already bored, I do not believe the Joe that we saw in episode 5 was our Joe. Long version I’m going to make an analysis of the events that happened and the dialog. However I’m not going to go over them in order, but rather in the way that stood out to me by not making sense due to the previous scenes and the dialog in them. I’m also going to debunk myself by also trying to come up with all the excuses that I can think of both in lore and behind the scenes, just so no one can say I’m biased towards my idea. I want to be as fair as possible and I want to eliminate any possibilities. Let’s start with Joe’s conversation with Himmler. This one stood out to me the most, Joe says and I quote “Winning her trust has been tricky.” Uh am I missing something? Let’s go back and look at how the events of them reuniting unfolded. First time they saw each other was at that party and Joe’s reaction to seeing Juliana says it all, they start talking loudly so they can maintain their cover from the rest of the people there so no one will suspect that they know each other. Second time is when Joe goes to her apartment, and I have to ask what’s the first thing he does after he enters her apartment? He grabs her and kisses her, telling her that he thought she was dead because Smith lied to him in order to use him. So what happens next? Then both of them start to partially open up about what’s been going on with each of them. To be honest it’s not really what I wanted because I wanted them to fully open up to each other and become the unstoppable duo that they always were. Anyway after they talk, Juliana basically jumps in his arms and she’s the one that initiates the kiss. Then we see Juliana’s flashback/forward/alternate/who knows because it’s not explained of Joe from the film telling her to trust him. Before I go any further I want to address those films of what I think they are. Honestly I don’t think even Spotnitz himself knew back when he started the show. I believe it was one of those moments where they would introduce something controversial, something to keep the audience hooked, but at that moment of creation they didn’t put much thought behind it and said they will figure it out as they go. So this is pure conjure on my side, but let’s be honest here we weren’t give any sort of explain on what those films are. Ever. That being said it’s clear that those films have some sort of time travel elements to them. I believe those are future events of past events. If that makes any sort of sense. While there are multiple universes in this setting, I think they are somewhat connected in some sort of time loop where the characters that fail to achieve their goal to stop the Nazis, show signs to other versions of themselves in those films about how to succeed or where to go. Examples are Joe killing Juliana and himself, so other versions of Juliana and himself can travel there or repeat but learn and succeed where they didn’t. Or Juliana holding that sign that said “Not allowed”. Or time moves different in other universes, thus some universes are ahead of others. Yes, I know it makes little sense, I’m sorry, but I can’t explain something that they didn’t give any information on how it works or what it is. It’s all very vague. Think of it like a cycle that can only be broken if all the pieces align correctly. If you’ve seen the movie Edge of Tomorrow then you would understand what I mean. By the way here’s a question for you guys. Who’s filming them? I mean in lore. Also we’ve always thought that the Joe we saw in those films is a different Joe, way back from season 1. But what if he is our Joe? Or more accurately what if he is now in season 3, but wasn’t before. You see what let me to say that is what Joe tells Juliana. He says “It’s ok.” Now I’m sure by now you’ve caught on that line as being their line. “It’s ok” is what they’ve been telling each other since they’ve meet. It’s their way of reassuring each other that everything’s ok, not to worry. Also I believe Joe’s message wasn’t for the Juliana he shoot, but for our Juliana. And another thing why is it that our Juliana had this flashback when she touched Joe? You know just like she had flashbacks when she touched Trudy. Let’s move on from the films and to the next episode, they meet each other in the dinner and once again they start to open up to each other. Again not to the level that I wanted, but it’s something. You can tell that Joe doesn’t want to talk about what happened, but he ends up telling her and notice that he doesn’t try to avoid the conversation, nor does he get mad. Then Joe protects her and they both get to her apartment where again both of them start to open up to each other. Pay attention to the dialog and remember it for when I’ll talk about episode 5. Then they sleep together, he leaves her and it’s time to talk about the infamous scene which even to this day it puzzles me from the way it’s filmed to the actions or more accurately the inaction in it. I’m talking about Joe going after Tagomi. But before that I have to ask, where’s the tricky part of winning her trust? There was nothing tricky about it, both opened up to each other and both jumped in each other’s arms the second they saw each other. Again it wasn’t want I wanted, but there was nothing difficult about it. What we saw contradicts Joe’s conversation with Himmler. Moving on to the Tagomi scene. The scene takes place at night in a park. We see Tagomi walking in the park and slowly we see behind him someone it's not clear who but in a couple of seconds we see that it's Joe. Tagomi stops walking and Joe stops behind him and pulls out his gun and aims it at him and cocks it, but he doesn’t fire. And then Joe waits and waits and waits as the camera focuses on Tagomi and we see only Tagomi in the frame. We don't see Joe at all anymore. The camera is focused completely on Tagomi. We see Tagomi closing his eyes and focusing like he would travel to another universe, but Tagomi doesn’t travel. Then plays a sound effect like Joe's clothes disappear from that place. Honestly the best way to explain it is like it teleported from that place because that’s what it sounds like. Then the camera looks behind Tagomi, and Joe is gone. And about 10 meters are 3 soldiers who are walking towards Tagomi and they ask him if everything it's ok. But they don't act like anyone else was there. They only react to Tagomi. Which I find impossible since all of them. Tagomi, Joe and the 3 soldiers where in a straight line. To me if Joe went to the left or to the right to leave that place then the soldiers would have seen him because they were right behind him by just 10 meters. And the place had plenty of light for them to see him. This scene puzzles me it doesn’t make any sense to me unless they used a misdirect to fool us, but at the same time giving us enough clues to understand that Joe travelled in that moment.
2. I have to ask what’s the point of this scene, if it’s not what I think. Because if this scene was supposed to show us that Joe is too far gone in order to justify his death then it fails for one simple reason. He didn’t kill Tagomi. If the scene was meant to show us that Joe was interrupted as he told Himmler, then that’s another fail as well since we saw that he had plenty of time to kill Tagomi and get away with it and those soldiers didn’t interrupt him. He took his time for no reason, I mean just check his previous 2 missions. Both times he goes there and bang, bang problem solved. He only took his time with his first target because it was the guy from S1. Plus if that was the point of the scene then why wasn’t it filmed differently? Why didn’t we see Joe noticing the soldiers and him hiding from them in order to tell us that he missed his chance, but will try again. Why don’t we see how Joe got away? And why is there a scene that shows us the perspective of the soldiers? After Tagomi tells the soldiers he’s fine, we have the view that the 3 soldiers saw and the scene is fully lit and we can clearly see that there’s no way Joe could’ve gone without being noticed by them. So the only logical explain that I can come up with it is that Joe travelled in that moment and another Joe took his place for the next day. Or more accurately I believe Tagomi teleported Joe. I say this because first of all Tagomi is the one that looked like he wanted to teleport from that place and secondly because of 2 lines of dialog, one in particular that made no sense to me when they were said. Now the reason I believe Tagomi teleported Joe is because of the first line which never made sense to me giving what we were shown. Abendsen tells Juliana that Tagomi and she have this deep connection which we’ve never seen, so that let me to believe that Tagomi’s role in this is to protect Juliana, and saving Joe so he can protect her later on is that connection. Plus the second line which at first I thought it was fanservice, but then I realized the line doesn’t make sense giving the situation. It’s Tagomi’s dialog when Juliana tells him about Joe. That line is bizarrely put given the context. Juliana says “The man in the film his name is Joe Blake and he’s a friend, was.” To which Tagomi replies with the most out of context question of them all, “Do you have feelings for him?” I mean what normal person asks that and how do you even end up to that conclusion from “He’s a friend, was.”? Yes, Juliana acts weirdly in that scene that might cause someone to pick up on something, but that’s quite a stretch to jump to the conclusion of Juliana being in love with Joe, made by Tagomi a guy who barely even knows Juliana. The scene of Joe going after Tagomi and not killing him and how it’s filmed can only make sense if the point was to tell us that Joe travelled in that moment. Otherwise the scene is completely pointless. Granted you can say that about the whole of season 3 since let’s be honest here there are only 3 moments in it that actually are important. First one is Juliana getting magical superpowers which are not explained how she got them or what they are, second is Juliana killing Joe which killed the show and the last is Juliana travelling to other universe. The rest can be ignored or deleted because they don’t matter which is something catastrophically bad for a story. When you can delete 99.9% of it and nothing changes. That’s season 3 in a nutshell. Also something that I noticed about this scene is that before focusing on Tagomi, they focused the camera on Joe’s face and he blinks twice with his left eye which he’s never done before, I went frame by frame to, yes I’m that obsessed. Now this can be explained by saying the scene was filmed at night and Luke was told to hold as still as possible for the camera and eventually he had to blink, but still it’s weird that he only blinked with his left eye. This scene really makes no sense. I mean someone wrote this, actors were hired to film it. Someone filmed it, someone else directed it. Someone edited it. An audio engineer mastered it. Someone watched it after all this and yet still they released this scene like this. Anyway let’s move on to Juliana going to Joe’s brothel room. This is where everything just falls flat on its face. Joe asks her if everything is ok to which Juliana replies with “I don’t know yet” and Joe’s response is “You are full of surprises” first of all what does that even mean? What is he talking about? Secondly her reply to him is written in a very specific way. She says “Yeah so are you. The guy at the desk said you registered under Joe Blake.” and Joe shrugs it off like he doesn’t know what she’s referring to. Why do I say this? Well because they have been hammering us with that Cinnadella name every chance they had in the previous episodes. And now all of a sudden they don’t mention it. The one time that name finally mattered is the one time they don’t use it. That cannot be a mistake, especially given how the dialog was written. You see the dialog is written in such a way that only we the audience can pick up on it, but not Joe. The dialog could’ve been written in different ways like Juliana asking him why he isn’t using his cover name, or as an observation of pointing it out like “Hey you didn’t register under your cover name, Cinnadella.” And why did they go out of their way to include this line that references his cover name? Moving on to the cherry on top, Juliana asks him “Look I need to know where you were last night and I need some honestly for a change” and Joe confused replies with “I have no idea what you’re talking about” then she asks again and again he says that he doesn’t know what she’s talking about. Here’s the kicker this moment can be easily dismissed by saying he’s lying in order to maintain his cover. However he genuinely looked and sounded like he had no idea what she was talking about. He really looks completely clueless. Plus I’ve seen interviews of Luke; this guy constantly tries to improve himself so there’s no way for him to act like this unless he was told to. Also notice that unlike the previous times when they opened up to each other, this time Joe gets really angry and violent when Juliana asks him about what happened. That’s quite a contrast from the previous day. Also I ask when has Joe ever showed any violence towards Juliana until this moment? Never is the answer. He always protected her no matter the situation and never once showed any ill intent towards her. Anyway after they sleep together as they are in bed and Juliana tells him about the film, I want you to look at Joe’s reactions to everything she says. You will notice that the entire time he acts like he has no clue what she’s talking about. He even has a moment where he shakes his head and moves his eyes left and right like he’s processing the information and trying to come up with what to say. Remember I said pay attention to the dialog from episode 4? Well now’s the time for it. After Joe comes out of the bathroom he sees that Lebensborn pin that Juliana discovered. Notice what he says, he says “That’s Lebensborn” to which I have to ask why didn’t he say “I’m Lebensborn” Remember Joe’s arc from season 2? How much it affected him discovering that he’s Lebensborn, and they even mentioned it in season 3 just as a reminder. Yet now he just brushes it off like it’s nothing to him. Anyway here comes the part that puzzles me. He possesses knowledge that he shouldn’t have. Like knowing about the farm house from Jamestown when he asks Juliana where she saw the Lebensborn symbol before. Then Juliana asks him what Nebenwelt means and he instantly reveals it means the next world, a parallel world. Yet again that’s quite a stark contrast to the previous day when Juliana asks him if he believes in past lives, other lives. Remember what he said and how he acted? He said “Himmler does so maybe there’s something to it. Me? No. Not so much.” Yet again the dialog doesn’t match what we’ve seen. Yes, this is another moment that can be easily dismissed by saying he’s lying, but is he though? Also a little something I forgot about his talk with Himmler, how exactly did Joe come to the conclusion that Juliana spent time with Abendsen? Not once did she gave that impression, all she did was asked him if he’s still looking for High Castle to which Joe replies with “No, that was Smith obsession, not mine” Look how he acts and how he talks. In episode 4 he genuinely doesn’t believe in other worlds, yet literally the next day in lore he knows all about other words and the project on how to reach them.
3. These things plus another moment that I haven’t mentioned yet is what let me to believe the Joe we saw after the Tagomi scene, isn’t the Joe that we’ve been following. The moment I’m referring is when Tagomi and Juliana do their future reading thing. Tagomi says “Hexagram 23 Po. Splitting a part, standing a part. One moving away from the other. Something coming to an end.” What caught my attention here is “One moving away from the other”, yes he also said “Something coming to an end”, but why mention all the rest if he could’ve just said something’s about to end? Now like I said I do want to make this as fair as possible so no one can say I’m biased towards my idea and I want to make sure I cover everything that I can think of. So let’s make a list of the things that tells us that the Joe we saw after the Tagomi scene is the Joe we’ve been following all along. And also make a list of things that tells us that he isn’t, that it’s an alternate Joe. Basically what they have in common and what they don’t. What is missing and what’s added. Let’s start with the original Joe. He killed his father, his target is Tagomi, was tortured, takes orders from Himmler and that’s about it. Now let’s look at Joe from after the Tagomi scene. He killed his father, his target is Tagomi, was tortured, takes orders from Himmler, his other target is High Castle, he believes and knows about other worlds, is violent towards Juliana not just physically, has knowledge that he should’ve have, doesn’t know about his cover name and acts like a completely different person. Other things I noticed but are quite small and could mean nothing. Is how much affection he shows Juliana in ep 4 after they sleep together, in ep 5 he’s very cold towards her after they slept together. Another thing is that the Joe we’ve been following thus far wears usually a blue shirt when he’s off duty yet in ep 5 he has a white shirt. I mention this because I recall them promoting S2 by showing the two sides of the characters and the patriot Joe I think it was wore a white shirt. Anyway that’s probably nothing, but something else caught my eye. Joe has always worn a watch on his left arm ever since the beginning, yet in ep 5 suddenly he doesn’t have one anymore. Things just don’t add up after the Tagomi scene, nothing makes sense. From the way he acts, to the way he speaks to what he does and what he knows. Look I know I’ve been focusing on this so much, but the thing is no matter what I do, I can’t find a single logical explanation to it, except one. Every single time no matter what angle I try to apply I always end up in the same place. That our Joe travelled in that moment. I even asked a friend who doesn’t even want to watch the show, to watch just these scenes of Joe going after Tagomi, and Juliana confronting him. And even he almost came to the same conclusion that I have. From the way Joe disappears from that place, he said like a ghost. To that sound effect that’s not normal. To the fact that the soldiers react only to Tagomi. To Joe being clueless about what Juliana asks him. So even someone else who has no investment in the show can confirm that things are off. Now I know someone will try to use the excuse of “He’s brainwashed. It’s so obvious. Didn’t you see that?” as an argument. Or he’s a Nazi, always was, he was evil. To which I have to say ok let’s go with the argument of Joe being brainwashed. Explain to me why he didn’t kill Tagomi when he had plenty of time to do it, how did he get away from that place without being noticed he’s not Superman so he can’t fly, why didn’t the soldiers notice him, what is that sound effect, why don’t we see how Joe got away, why do we see the soldiers perspective and see it’s fully lit, why they only react to Tagomi, why he’s completely in the dark when Juliana asks him about the previous night and why doesn’t he know about his cover name? Explain how he knows stuff that he shouldn’t, but doesn’t know stuff that he should. Explain these things. I will tell you right now you can’t because the argument of “He’s brainwashed” falls flat on its face when presented with these questions because it doesn’t explain anything. As for “He’s a Nazi. Always was” I have to ask what show were you watching? Because he was only by title which by the way a title does not make a person. A title doesn’t mean anything. What that person believes in and what his/her actions are what determine what kind of person they are. Not a name or a title. It’s like saying you are evil because you belong to this nationality. That’s just stupid. Our beliefs and actions are what make us. Not titles. In conclusion no matter what happens in season 4, I’m sticking to what I said because too many things just don’t make sense. To quote Sherlock or more accurately Sir Arthur Conan Doyle “Once you have eliminated the Impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth” and I’ve eliminated and took in consideration all things that were given to us and deduced that the only logical explain to all the facts is that Joe traveled that night when he didn’t kill Tagomi. It fits all the data. It’s the process of elimination. And look I’ve seen the teaser trailer and trailer itself and all the promo pictures and other extras they have released thus far for season 4 and I know from them that Luke is not in them at all. I know that. And I know Juliana is hooking up with Discount Joe from the trailer because the scene where both are alone in that room is clearly the moment before they sleep together, which makes me vomit just thinking about. And if it turns out that Luke truly isn’t at all in season 4 then I’ll personally adapt a new mentality called headcanon and I will ignore all the crap they made. Not just because of Joeliana, but because they ruined the story and the characters. I’m going to say something controversial here at the end about what they did to Juliana. But it’s true what they say, you either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain. Thank you to all that read this insane comment of mine.
@@NostradAlex @DelenaSwarkles I totally understand how you feel man. I just finished season 4 and am extremely disappointed. Season 3 was a letdown which was why I even took a break halfway into season 3 because there was basically no plot development. One other thing the level of detail you put into this show is amazing - you should think about screenwriting. It should be illegal to rush an ending to such a show that started off with amazing promise. I was more into Smith and Kido's storylines and in my opinion they made the show. You can see Juliana's arc disintegrate with each episode. She's weak and relies on others when her character should be the opposite. Her romance with Wyatt is completely out of the blue and ungenuine. It seems like she forgot about Frank - she didn't even react to his death! I loved Juliana's character in the beginning seasons (her mysterious aura mixed with her daring decision making and independence) I do not know why the writers decided to make her so boring - I can see why it did not look like she cared at all when on screen. Even Smith and Kido's storylines ended in such a bad way. They needed another season to wrap up their arcs, and just rushing it in with an ending similar to that of unicorns walking into heaven was just ridiculous. I know viewership may be down but that's because of the shit storywriting! They wouldn't have low numbers if they understood the basis of character development and common sense. I seriously feel you paid more attention to the scenes than the ones working on the show in the last two seasons. Soooooo disappointing....how such a great show to end like this is beyond me. I'm still in denial, I was really passionate about this show and the way they messed with Juliana's love life, inserted new characters in the FINAL Season?!? which didn't even resonate, and rushed the fates of Kido and Smith while having a completely stupid ending is horrible. Shit like this happens in Hollywood way too frequently and it is depressing.
@@OlivierElkan Let me start by saying, sorry for taking so long to reply back. And thank you so much for that compliment. I don't know if I have it in me to be a screenwriter. There are days where I can write and think about every single detail, and then there are days where I don't even know how to start a sentence. But thank you so much for that. Personally I wasn't that interested in Smith's or Kido's stories. With Smith I kind of saw older movies that Rufus played in and saw the same character. He kind of plays the same villain type, at least in what I've seen him in. With Kido, I liked his story in S1 and S2, but after that no. I can not fully talk about S4, since I haven't seen it entirely and I never will. When it came out I saw bits and pieces and got a general idea of it, then read what others have said about it and it did confirm what I saw. They didn't care and they had no idea what to do with the show after Spotnitz was fired. I believe the people left behind combined with the new showrunner just didn't care about it. And just saw an opportunity to sit back relax and enjoy the incoming paychecks for years to come, they did say after Spotnitz was fired that they have plans to continue for years, thank God Amazon cancelled them. Because Spotnitz left them with a gold mine, at that time it was Amazon's top show. So all they had to do is do the minimum amount of work in order to release something and they get payed based on the success that Spotnitz left them with. Combine that with the new showrunner not having an interest in the show since it wasn't his show, I think Eric was working on Bosch (don't quote me on this one) and he was put to work on High Castle and Bosch at the same time, so of course the guy wasn't that pleased and just did the least amount of work and called it a day. The thing with Juliana's character is that they destroyed her entirely. I loved how Alexa just didn't care about acting at all in S4. And rightfully so, they took away her status of main lead and main character, to not even a secondary character, but a pairing fodder for the guy no one likes and everyone told them they want him out of the show. She's literally there to be the paired up with that prick. And it's so forced, you can see it in her body language and in her face. Just compare her scenes with Luke (Joe) to the scenes with that guy. This is what happens when drama behind the scenes happens. Someone at Amazon who was in charge with the shows decided that High Castle was spending too much money so they fired Spotnitz and reduced the budget for it. If you look back at the first two seasons and compared them with the last, you can see the cuts. This is also why the new cast was brought in, they were cheaper than the original cast. This is also why Alexa the previous main star of the show was barely present in the so called last season, because she was too expensive for them. Also keep in mind that the only reason S4 even exists is because they started to film for it before S3 premiered. If they would've followed standard procedure and waiting to see how S3 performs and how fans react to it then S4 wound't even exist on paper. Keep in mind that they got cancelled as they were still filming for S4. That's how bad the reaction of the fans was. What pisses me off is that they didn't listen at all to the fans. They couldn't fix the story, it was too late for that, only a redo will fix that. A redo of S3 and S4 with Spotnitz and declare what we got before is non-canon or it happened in another parallel universe. But they could've at least have a saving grace, the pairing fans. Imagine towards the end, a scene where Juliana travels to another universe, goes to a dinner and from behind comes Joe with "Can I buy you a drink?" line, they talk and Joe says he's been looking for her and that day after they spend time together at her apartment, he was given a mission to kill Tagomi, but when he was about to, he couldn't because that's not him, then he somehow ended up where he is now. Meaning Tagomi or he teleported himself to other universe. Thus this is her Joe. The Joe that she fell in love with. I know it's cheesy and rushed, but I literally just came up with it now. It took me like 2 seconds to envision this scene.
@@NostradAlex Frank Spotnitz being forced essentially by Amazon to part ways from the show after season 2 really put a dent in the shows quality. An Amazon spokesperson said some bullshit excuse about creative differences but that's business bullshittery talk for we fired the guy. Frank and Ridley Scott spent years trying to get the show off of the ground, approached BBC who turned it down then another company then Amazon who accepted, keep in mind, this was one of the first shows of it's kind on the platform back in 2015 that really set off a trend of these original shows getting produced with an expanded budget, "Amazon originals" Imagine spending years and finally getting a network to finance and help produce the show, only for the original directors to be fired and or ousted. I would love to know what Frank thought of how it turned out in the end. I imagine if Spotnitz had stayed, the show could of easily went on for another five year or longer since the world is so big and plenty could of been explored, not present in the novel by Phillip K Dick.
Wow, I am watching it in 2024, just watched the episode where she killed him. Fuck it broke my heart, they had such amazing chemistry and the show killed him.
I was just looking for a video of Joe's death scene but this is all i found. I'm afraid i don't ship them. I cringed everytime they were together. Their relationship was the weakest part of season 1 for me, such a cliché, so i thought they improved a lot in season 2, especially Joe's development and story. I was disappointed when they got back together in season 3 but i'm happy how things played out. Those who say they ruined his character need to rewatch season 2, and pay more attention to Joe's story with his father. Joe was just not the same after Berlin, he was too far gone and he was about to kill Tagomi (one of my favorite characters) so he had to go. I don't believe he would have hurt Juliana to be honest, but she had no choice, he became the enemy. Happy endings and cheesy love stories are not for this show, literally everyone has a hard time, in this world no matter if you're good or bad, happines is almost impossible to achieve. If i had to chose which characters deserve good things i'm afraid i would not pick Joe.
Acabas de poner el final??? me parece que tenías que poner SPOILER en mayúsculas en el título para que las personas como yo no acabemos viendo lo que no queremos ver.
I'm still waiting for the reason they showed us Joe telling her to trust him before killing her in the other universe. What was the point? I thought in season 4 they would give it a meaning but no, nothing.
*I heard he died... ugh, I hated this show so much though. I only barely got through season 1. Every protagonist was annoying. My memory was fuzzy, but all she had to do was leave with her then boyfriend but she basically said nah, I'm gonna look for this mysterious suspicious guy cause you know, I'm really not that into you. lol. This whole relationship was too forced for my liking. I was actually only here to see his death.*
![Joe & Juliana - She Will Always Hate Me [+S3]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/a8yjQ-gFnmc/mqdefault.jpg)
![Joe & Juliana - She Will Always Hate Me [+S3]](/img/tr.png)
The most upsetting line has got to be " Maybe if I'd met you sooner my life would be different' " "Maybe it will be" Unfortunately time told a different story. I really missed Joe and Frank in season 4. :(
Joe betraying Juliana was out of his character. Their relationship was genuine and Joe threatening Juliana just didn't seem plausible to me.
lich5164four I guess the Nazi reconditioning worked
He is a nazi. None of what he did is out of his character
Joe was brainwashed in captivity I thought that was pretty clear
If he fails his mission he gets shot.
So under that pretense, he was just as cornered as she was in the bathroom, just in a different way.
@@MusicandGamesandStuf i the books he was a real nazi and here he also died as one, although it was because they had brainwashed him
The perfect ending would be right at the end of Season 4 (final season), where all is well with the world (i.e. Nazis defeated), and juliana is drinking at a bar and is going to pay, but Joe makes a cameo and says "'I'll pay", they smile and then the series ends...
that's perfect!!
So Frank is stupid
"All is well with the world" "Nazis defeated." can't go in the same sentence.
OMG yes.
Why did he have to become evil and they made her kill him. He was such an interesting character. And also Frank... How he had to die... And on top of that, they made Juliana become so cold. Aaargh damnit
@@rkit6707 what?
Now we know all our hopes were dismissed
Season was ass
I’m waiting for season 4 to bring us Joe from another reality. Either he travels to her or she travels to find him somewhere else at the end somewhere he is a good man from start to end
I was waiting the same, but I have seen the trailer of the final season and Joe does not appear in it even just only one single second. Dammit.
I watched the last season and he doesn't appear
I think so.
I think Joe's character development is really interesting.
He was pretty neutral at the beginning of the series but then slowly turned into a straight up Nazi.
It's what happened to a lot of people in Germany back then. The people were influenced. Influenced by propaganda, by the media, by other people etc. He believed that he could be part of something bigger than himself. There were constantly people telling what to do and how to behave that that's what he started believing in and I think that that's the sad part.
They really deserved so much better. Just like he said, maybe if he did meet Juliana way before this, then he might have been a different person and not full of hate and obedience
Waited so long to see how they'd find each other again. You built their love and bond up for three fucking seasons. So much of the plot was tied to their connection and how it transcended across the multiverse. I know she killed him in the main reality, but seriously, WTF!?!?! Instead, you force fed us Wyatt and Juliana down to the bitter end. Anyone wondering why Juliana went from being a somewhat complex (yes, there is a lot about her that sucks) to one dimensional character in the final season? I feel betrayed. I'm way more disappointed with the ending of this series than I was with GoT. I saw that ending from light-years away. I was way more emotionally invested in MITHC and now I have to live knowing we got a dumpster fire of an ending for it. SMFH...RIP Joe. I, and I'm sure a lot of other people, really wanted you and Juliana to end up together in the end. Now, it will only exist in fanfics.
Any good recommendations for fan fics?!?!
I hate what they did with Joe in season 3. It was so out of his character. It’s like their plans for him suddenly changed
Not really, he died the same way in the book
same here, I hate the writing in the third season. Terrible.
For me the death of joe was the death of the show, they kill it now is just going to go around and around endlessly on bs. The show is dead Rest In Peace
U guys can skip season 4. No happy end for JoeLiana. Joe is not on season 4.
Killing off Joe was the End of the show for me. He was so out of character in the end.
It was not out of character since the poor guy had been tortured and brainwashed. The Joe we knew in season 1 and two was already dead...
@@chasmallvigrey I disagree, it was not believable that he could lose his old self, the acting was out of character.
Sameeeee, I stopped watching the show entirely once he died
I think the whole season 3 was rushed and many parts felt “off”...
Same here, I lost interest when Jules killed Joe 💔
They deserved better
She definitely didn't.
Damn it you're killing me with the vids >.
At least is confirmed that he will be in season 4, I really hope that Juliana finds another Joe from other world because since the beginning I knew that they should end up together
the point of it was to show that the nazi re-education programs works bc it turned him into a completely different person.
make me really wish I stopped watching after season 1 tho
that's it for me, season 3 episode 5 is the finale of this show for me
Hey. It's Incredibly touching. One of the best videos about them. Seriously, I had tears in my eyes at the end. For me they were the heart of the series, it was a bright ray of hope passing a thin line through the whole story, although there were many obstacles between them and now I'm so broken because of what the writer did to them. One of the most doomed ships in my opinion, but even if they were doomed I think they should have killed him at the end of the show and given us more time with them. Very unfair. In any case, they are forever in my heart and thank you for such a wonderful video that I will review many many times. =)
"Nothing worth having comes easy."
Here after finishing the finale 😞 my mans joe deserved a happy ending
"I understand loyalty to a person not a cause"
This is one of the best, if not the BEST, compilation videos of Joeliana out there! Thank you for putting this together! Hoping we’ll see them reunited in season 4. 💞
Luke posted your video on his Instagram!! 💜
They deserved SOOO MUCH BETTER
I started to cry at 0.30 whe he said her name. and i continued the whole time. so thank you ;-) It's amazing video!
I truly, deeply, love Joe&Julian. I don't care what happened in the show: THEY are together in parallel universe. they do
Chill the f out people, the show is a sci-fi that brings people back from the dead, do you really think they wouldn't bring back the deuteragonist? The writers and producers are delighted with the feedback, they want to build up the hype, if the couple estagnated into a pretty normal relationship there wouldn't be any magic left, you gotta keep things sparking
Not if they want to replace him, which by the looks of it is what they are doing since they introduced Wyatt and he took Joe's place in the rest of season 3.
I stumbled across this because I can’t find any of compilation video between these two. I have to say Joe’s death was probably the most shocking one. Btw I love this video.
I am so obsessed with this. REALLY hope they somehow end up together.
The melody of the background 😍😍😍
How did anyone make it all the way through season 3? When Joe die it the show died for me.
I was just binge watching season 3 tonight, and stopped watching when Joe died. I'll wait to find out if he's in Season 4 before I finish watching anymore episodes.
I stop rn just watched the ep today.. his death was just so small ??
Me too
They did Joe Blake really dirty. Hey Man in the High Castle! You're not Game of Thrones!!!!!
I'm not quite fond of romance but I'll admit they were quite beautiful. I was desperately hoping to see a ''Happy Ending'' for Joe and Juliana.
WTF i just watched joe die and i’m so done with this show, i loved them and they massacred his chance for redemption, this is depressing, i was literally only watching for him UGHHHH
julliana cheating at Frank was the worst thing ever and also joe threatening her was kinda KARMA
Frank cheated at her first.........
100% agree 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
@@khaosgoettin not really, she emotionally cheated on him with Joe first, did everything to ruin his life. Also she forced Frank to give up his life for Joe. She had an option to end the relationship, but she just used Frank and he just ended up without a head.
I still can't believe what they did. All the development thrown out the window for the sake of drama. They completely destroyed his character and the heart of the show just to shock the audience. Well I'm shocked, so shocked in fact that I'm done with the show.
I will never forgive them for what they did and not making Joe into an agent for the resistance after all the signs of him seeing that the Nazi's are wrong.
I do have a theory, or more like me being hopeful. That the Joe we saw die wasn't the Joe that we knew. My theory and hope is based on something that I've noticed during the first episode of season 3. In shows or movies I like to see if the people who make them pay attention to the continuity of a scene. Which either they didn't or they hopefully made it that way.
If you remember we saw Joe being tortured and he had long hair and a beard, then we see him again and guess what, the long hair is gone and so is the beard.
Now either the crew didn't think of it or wasn't paying attention to such a thing. Or some other explanation behind the scenes.
Or maybe, just maybe Joe is a traveler and somehow switched places with another Joe.
I know, I know it's far fetched and the theory has major flaws, trust me I know all of them (including the one where the Nazis filmed him), but I can't find a single writer's explanation for what they did to Joe and the relationship with Juliana.
I know about the book, but the show has pretty little in common with it so saying it happened in the book doesn't fly.
The Joe that we followed would've never gone anything to hurt Juliana and the Juliana we followed would never hurt Joe.
This season we followed two completely different characters.
What I took from it, was what she said to him before she killed him... Every single tape, every single timelime, he is who kills her, then he kills himself... He didn't even argue the point that that woudn't end like that... It was heading right back to that end point in this one... So she HAD to take that chess piece off the board, to change the end game and send it a different direction regardless of how she felt... At least I feel that's where the show was going with that... I hated that end for him as well though...
@Beavernator I get that and I also thought about that as well, and even if it was done for that reason alone, I still have problems with it. No matter its purpose.
First of all we don't quite know and neither do the characters what these films really represent. It's clear that the story has time travel elements, but they haven't explained if those films are possible outcomes or whatever is shown does happen but somewhere else in another universe, and no matter what you can't change that because that's not your universe. I know season 2 ending, but Hawthorne's theory was based on what he saw, not an absolute fact. Same with Juliana here, she took those films at face value and decided that's the only outcome even though things were different in her world than the films. That's why I said she became so obsessed with those films. She didn't think at all. If she actually wanted to avoid that outcome, they should've showed it, but they made Juliana act like she wanted the events in that film to happen. She just blindly followed them.
Secondly I have problems when writers kill off main characters for whatever reason. Recently they've been doing it for the shock value. Especially when the character actually had development. If Joe didn't show any remorse or any change in his character, then killing him wouldn't be such a big thing. But he showed that he didn't follow the Nazi mentality, he was different and wanted to be different. For two seasons they development that, I do admit it wasn't great, but it was there.
And to throw all of that away for drama and maybe the possibility that he did indeed die for Juliana to live.
That's bad writing. If him dying was the only option to save Juliana, then they should've given him that option. To sacrifice himself for Juliana, or continue on this path and both die. For example have him watch those films and decide that the only option is for him to die. Not have Juliana murder him.
I know this version of Joe did show that he doesn't value his life anymore. And I have a problem with that as well. :) The guy was so broken over his father that he couldn't even stand and wanted nothing to do with him and only stayed because he thought he could change things, and the 6 months in prison. And all of that made him want to consider killing himself (ok he killed his own father, but again he never had much of relationship with him to begin with), to seeing that the Nazi's are right, to being perfectly ok with murdering God knows how many billions of people, and then he threatens Juliana with a gun to her head.
This is the girl that he did everything he could to protect her, she changed him as he said and as we saw, he quit the Nazi's the second Smith told him she died, this is the girl he proclaimed he loves/loved.
And the second Smith tells him she's alive, he instantly jumps in with no proof needed.
From all of that to what he became.
Yeah, that's not even remotely the same character that we followed. I get it he was tortured in prison, but that doesn't work. It doesn't stay true to his character, to what he showed before. You can't just change a character so much and expect the viewers to just go with it. This is not character growth or regression, this is character assassination. For Joe and Juliana.
Not to mention the romance subplot which was hinted multiple times quite heavily.
@@NostradAlex My main issue with the show , is that Phillip K. DICK never wrote a second book that the showrunners could use as inspiration... They could never come up with something along his level of thinking... Still, I'm happy to have anything near this quality... I'll ride it out...
@Beavernator I can see that. Honestly after watching season 3, I understood at what level they are.
I still hope that maybe, just maybe they actually have a well thought out plan and they know what they are doing, but even so for me the show is over. I'm not going to watch season 4. I'll check a summary of what's in it, because that hope is still there. But I think they've lost a lot of people with this season.
In the book, Juliana kills Joe.
i love joe & juliana, so sad but hoping joe will be back in season4 w/ juliana again, thanks for this great video enough to fill for losing joe 😥
Guys, GUYS, GUUUUUYZ!!!!
I got a theory that can explain what happened, and, even more, give us hope!
So, considering what was shown in the 3 season, we were expecting at least two more seasons to conclude all the story lines. We had the storyline of Michelle Dörmer, a propaganda filmmaker, who was arrested by Himmler for being in a relationship with Thelma Harris, the journalist, remember? We had Ed, who was put into a homosexual relationship exactly to tear attention to his character. He also mentioned he had feelings for Juliana, with the subtext "to be continued" (otherwise, what for?). We had Trudy Walker, Juliana's alt-sister, who was one of the key characters and had a very important place in the show. We had the "Catholic" commune, wich must have been brought up to figure as an independent entity alongside the BCR and the American resistance. One of the dumbest is the part with the girl who survives the Portal and travels to the other world during the early testings by the Nazis. Being an important event on its own, I would still not make such a fuss about it, but she was given extra time, with Hawthorne talking about her, saying something like: "But she, she is no ordinary girl. No ordinary people can walk through that portal. You will hear about her, John." And the face of the character being zoomed in for nothing else, but so that we could remember it and recognize her later. It was clear that she had an important upcoming role. I'm sure there were many others, that I forgot of, please write them in the comments. We also had the whole Jahr Null thing. But, of course, our main complaint is the death of the two key characters: Joe Blake and Frank Frink. In any other circumstances, it would mean that we lost those two and we would be fairly demotivated to watch the rest of the show. BUT before they are killed, we are introduced the Portal and the story of Thomas aka the plots magical ability to revive its characters. That's why we were not really upset with it. It was clear, that, since there is the alternate universe(s), such important characters MUST reprise. It was clearly the message of the third season. The fact that the two, Joe and Frank, are not just important, but key characters is proven by that the chemistry between Joe and Juliana, Juliana and Frank, Frank and Joe, was the reason all the fateful decisions and, consequently, plot twists, took place. It was the basis of the whole story, the reason to the events, that constituted the series! And the main essence of the show was that, despite propaganda, regimes and brain-washing, love, of all kinds, can do miracles. Okay, I understand why the killed Tagomi -- to create a dissonance for Kiddo and make him question his values.
And, alas, none of these characters were even mentioned in season 4. "What kind of writers create the solid of the plot, premisses for promising storylines and then destroy them by themselves?!" you ask. I think I have the answer.
The directors MEANT to conclude the series properly. Season 4 was meant to unfold, not to wrap up. There are two possible reasons this didn't happen.
Number one: replacement of the directors and/or writers. The new team may have had another view on the way the series should end and what paths should characters take.
Number Two: unexpected financing cut/ series shutdown and the associated with them necessity to fold the show up within 10 episodes. This is the most likely one.
I think that, roughly, that's what they've been told:"Okay, we have bad news for you. Unlike what we all thought, the show can't be renewed for ... reasons, so you have to quickly wrap it up. But let's not make the ending too firm, because, yes, we don't have money right now, but, who knows, we were a successful show, with a loyal audience and a good plot, we may be given the chance to proceed in the future. We need to leave unanswered questions to keep the intrigue in case we will be renewed. So, long story short, give it an ending but with the opportunity for a spin-off".
It's a common practice in the movie industry, to end each season so, that it could be that last and not the last at the same time, so I'm not completely insane))
Even more, with that theory, everything becomes reasonable. With only one season to spare, they had to choose the minor (relatively, of course) storyline (the John and Thomas's) to conclude and to leave the major one
(Juliana and Joe's (and Frank's)) unfolded, because they a) didn't have enough screen time for it to conclude it (that's for sure, even without my theory) and b) needed to leave some doors open.
Bonus: this may sound insane, but I like to think of it as a validation for my theory))
Now, in the season 4, Juliana has visions, and in one of them, she sees a hexograme, which meaning she discovers to be "not yet complete". Throughout the season, the hexograme doesn't appear until the last episode, in which, too, it doesn't seem to tally with the circumstances. What else can it be other than a hint to the deliberate loose ends, left by the creators themselves. Also, in the vision, Juliana sees blur silhouettes appearing on the horizon. What else can it refer to, other than the people coming out of the Portal in the end of the series? These scenes are so out-of-context, I have to believe they were left specifically for the vigilant viewers.
So yeah, that's my theory and it for sure will keep me going. Share it and let's see what other fans will think about it (and who knows, maybe even what the creators will have to say about it).
yes!! pleaseee! joe and juliana have to end up together!!
honestly, they ruined season 4 so bad, that it made me wish i never watched the show! they developed their relationship and joe just to wreck it. It makes me feel so angryyyy
Hey I'm a year late and just came here after finishing the season 4 finale. Like everyone, it is severely disappointing. I gotta tell you that I took a year break from the show mid way into season 3 because it just didn't interest me. I resumed last week and finished the final season in 2 days just to save the pain.
Wow! I mean game of thrones was a letdown but at least it was successful for 7 seasons! How the writers gave up on TMITHC since the beginning of season 3 is beyond me. I honestly forgot a bit about Joe and Juliana's story but I have to say this was beautifully made and did remind me of the good times in seasons 1 and 2 where the story was interesting and the characters were engaging.
While I was a big fan of Smith's storyline, it was supposed to be Joe and Juliana till the end! I still can't believe how fast they wanted to get rid of Joe. You can make the case for his turning, but I feel more development was definitely needed. You don't turn from lovebirds to crazy town in a couple episodes. In regards to Smith, I do have to give the show some credit for showing more of his struggle between the Reich and his family in the last couple of seasons. However in the last few episodes, the finale especially, did not do him justice AT ALL! If they gave up on Juliana's arc, they could have at least saved some part of the show; ie giving John Smith a proper ending, instead of him killing himself?? So out of the blue.
Back to Juliana. It's almost like a stab in the gut because Juliana is very pretty and her personality was extremely versatile in the first couple of seasons. A character like her doesn't deserve to be written off like this as a boring and uninterested part of the show. I will go as far as to say her character arc/story was destroyed in a worser way than Daenerys.
It is truly heartbreaking to know there are actual people who are working on the show and do not care about the story and only about the paychecks that are coming in. It is clear that they had no thought of the audience in the final 2 seasons. A sense of direction in the show was lost in season 3 and they tried to make up for that in season 4 which made it obviously unsatisfying.
Would love to hear how you felt of the last season....I know you posted 2 years ago, but I am extremely disappointed. This show was supposed to be Amazon's break into the film industry! Don't know how they could give it up like that. I could see the show going for a length and a fanbase like Game of Thrones if it was directed and produced properly with CARE. I don't think I've ever watched a show as incomplete and with as much wasted potential as this.
Writing has been shit since season 1 and juliana is a terrible human being.
Hi I've returned and I want to ask, would it be ok with you if I posted another comment here?
I ask because it's quite long. Similar in length to my comment on the teaser.
Thanks.
Heyy! Yes of course you can I don't mind at all!!! I'm excited to read it whenever you post it your comments are very interesting!
Aww thank you, that's sweet.
OMG how can I not remember the last scene with John Smith, I must watch again 😱
Anyways, good job!! It was amazing!
Thank you so much!!!
one of the best thank you for this
Thank you so much!!
@@DelenaSwarkleslike it
Dude I loved it ❤❤❤
Why you were cancelled
ill give my unpopular opinion. I'll actually admit that I had no problem with Juli killing Joe, it was all pointing to Joe killing Juli in the end, what do you guys truly expect from someone who was tortured for months to warp his way of viewing the world?
I very much preferred the relationship between Frank and Juli if Im honest here. Frank in my opinion was perhaps one of the most relateable characters from the show, and one of the characters with the most character development in the entire series.
I'll have to admit though, I liked Joe's development when he was with his father, but thats pretty much about it. Sadly for me, Joe was too much of a generic character, and in that sense, admittedly similar to Juliana.
I must say though, what truly made this series great was Kido, John Smith, Tagomi and Frank, Julianne and Joe felt like side characters to me.
finally some reasonable comment!!!!! btw I've never felt any chemistry between them more than "she/he saved my life".
Joe was my fav character but after his dead I got trust issue no one in this world is trustable everyone he trusted betrayed him 😔😔😔
I've just posted quite a large comment on the trailer for season 4 on Amazon's TH-cam page curious to see you guys and girls think of it.
Can someone give me the name of the music in this?
Also, this show did what Ozark did to me. They killed off my favorite character and I couldn’t go on 😭
I absolutely loved this! can you by any chance send me the link where you got access to the man in the highcastle for editing, i typaclly use logoless because even with a VPN for torrent downloads i still get emails from my internet provider.
Luke posted a part of your video on his Instagram 😉
Yess I just saw it!!! Ahhh i'm sooo happy!!!!
You deserve it ! It's a masterpiece ! ❤️
No Idea awwww thank you sooooo much!!!! 😍❤️
Your welcome !
So disappointed in Season 4... no Joe (appears for literally 1s in a flashback) and terrible story
Season 1-3 was so good, and 4 had so much potential, but turned out so bad
They introduce new characters and resistance members and a majoriry of the story is about the things they do. But frankly I really didn't feel attached too or care about them. I was looking forward to more travelling and using it in a creative way to create a nice story but there's literally none of that. Juliana literally goes to the world for a while and sees the "nice guy john Smith"(as shown in the trailer) and then comes back. And that's all she ever travels, no exploration, no more learning about travelling, no Trudy, tagomi or kotomichi or any other travelers appear. I was really looking forward to them having some interesting travelling adventures and using what they learnt to solve the situation in their world. But none of that happens.... It's literally just resistance Vs the Japanese and Nazis doing their boring resistance things noone cares about.
To be honest the main story arc that kept me going was John Smith and his family, but even that really wasn't that great.
I just wish I knew what happened. What caused them to ruin the show. I mean I know the creator and showrunner Frank Spotnitz was fired during the production of season 2 because he was spending too much money on it and he was replaced for seasons 3 and 4. But still did absolutely no one who remained on the team thought about what they were doing? Were they against Spotnitz from the very beginning? And were they even against themselves? Because it sure looks like it.
Who thought that people wanted to see new boring characters in the last season?
You don't introduce new characters in the last season and focus your story on them. That's not how writing works.
@@NostradAlex Yea it was terrible... And a lot of the things that built up on were not even addressed. E.g. the fact that Juliana was the same good person across all versions of the multiverse was barely touched upon, when in the early seasons so much emphasis was put upon Juliana being a very special constant person across all the films, and that being the key to fixing their reality. Nothing about that was even really explored on and we don't even get to see Juliana in the different worlds.
We also know nothing about travelling. Tagomi and Trudy, possibly even kotomichi especially could have had an interesting role this season teaching her about the different worlds but they were non existent. So many things, even julianas relationship with tagomi in the other world was not exploited.
It just became a boring story of a reistance fighting against a bad guy who's struggling with his conscience.
@Tim Sherman Yeah I don't even know what to say. I mean what do you say to such a stupid thing? It just shows that the new showrunner and the ones remaining on the team had no idea what they were doing and none of them even payed attention to what came before. They just had their own agenda they wanted to push and focused on that and everything else be damned.
Juliana's relationship with Tagomi is something that makes me laugh so much because of how stupid they handled it. Literally the previous season they said that Juliana and Tagomi have this deep bond. And they kill Tagomi off screen. I don't even have the words to quantify how stupid this whole thing is.
It became something that no one wanted to see.
Well, at least Amazon gave us a finale, not like Netflix that brought good storys with original productions through streaming services but leave those proyects very fast. From my perspective, season 4 wasn’t that bad, but the only thing that bother me is that they cut many interesting characters from the show, like Joe Blake, Frank Frink, the scary bountihunter from the first episode; I mean they could explote those characters with the paralel universo theory or with a deep writing that show us both sides of the coin (our own reality and the other one, where the show takes place).
If he dies I’m not gonna watch season 4
Maybe he can come back from another world
😭😭😭 love this vid
Thank you so much!!
I’m back again and we are less than 2 weeks until season 4 is upon us. And once again I have something to say. Now this isn’t something new that I discovered recently. I wanted to say this for months now, but unfortunately things in life kept intervening and prevented me from writing. Life is life after all, right?
And I’ve been promising a friend for months now, but I always failed to deliver on my promise to her, but not anymore. So shall we begin?
Now what I’m about to say isn’t something that I 100% came up with, obviously someone else already came to this conclusion before me. However I’m the most obsessed with it, to the point where I became more obsessed with it than Juliana became with those films. I’m the one who delved into this to the extreme. I need help.
Some months ago I mention something similar, but I never delved into it like I’m about to do now.
Short version in case someone is already bored, I do not believe the Joe that we saw in episode 5 was our Joe. Long version I’m going to make an analysis of the events that happened and the dialog. However I’m not going to go over them in order, but rather in the way that stood out to me by not making sense due to the previous scenes and the dialog in them. I’m also going to debunk myself by also trying to come up with all the excuses that I can think of both in lore and behind the scenes, just so no one can say I’m biased towards my idea. I want to be as fair as possible and I want to eliminate any possibilities.
Let’s start with Joe’s conversation with Himmler. This one stood out to me the most, Joe says and I quote “Winning her trust has been tricky.” Uh am I missing something? Let’s go back and look at how the events of them reuniting unfolded. First time they saw each other was at that party and Joe’s reaction to seeing Juliana says it all, they start talking loudly so they can maintain their cover from the rest of the people there so no one will suspect that they know each other. Second time is when Joe goes to her apartment, and I have to ask what’s the first thing he does after he enters her apartment? He grabs her and kisses her, telling her that he thought she was dead because Smith lied to him in order to use him. So what happens next? Then both of them start to partially open up about what’s been going on with each of them. To be honest it’s not really what I wanted because I wanted them to fully open up to each other and become the unstoppable duo that they always were. Anyway after they talk, Juliana basically jumps in his arms and she’s the one that initiates the kiss. Then we see Juliana’s flashback/forward/alternate/who knows because it’s not explained of Joe from the film telling her to trust him.
Before I go any further I want to address those films of what I think they are. Honestly I don’t think even Spotnitz himself knew back when he started the show. I believe it was one of those moments where they would introduce something controversial, something to keep the audience hooked, but at that moment of creation they didn’t put much thought behind it and said they will figure it out as they go. So this is pure conjure on my side, but let’s be honest here we weren’t give any sort of explain on what those films are. Ever. That being said it’s clear that those films have some sort of time travel elements to them. I believe those are future events of past events. If that makes any sort of sense.
While there are multiple universes in this setting, I think they are somewhat connected in some sort of time loop where the characters that fail to achieve their goal to stop the Nazis, show signs to other versions of themselves in those films about how to succeed or where to go. Examples are Joe killing Juliana and himself, so other versions of Juliana and himself can travel there or repeat but learn and succeed where they didn’t. Or Juliana holding that sign that said “Not allowed”. Or time moves different in other universes, thus some universes are ahead of others. Yes, I know it makes little sense, I’m sorry, but I can’t explain something that they didn’t give any information on how it works or what it is. It’s all very vague. Think of it like a cycle that can only be broken if all the pieces align correctly. If you’ve seen the movie Edge of Tomorrow then you would understand what I mean. By the way here’s a question for you guys. Who’s filming them? I mean in lore.
Also we’ve always thought that the Joe we saw in those films is a different Joe, way back from season 1. But what if he is our Joe? Or more accurately what if he is now in season 3, but wasn’t before. You see what let me to say that is what Joe tells Juliana. He says “It’s ok.” Now I’m sure by now you’ve caught on that line as being their line. “It’s ok” is what they’ve been telling each other since they’ve meet. It’s their way of reassuring each other that everything’s ok, not to worry. Also I believe Joe’s message wasn’t for the Juliana he shoot, but for our Juliana. And another thing why is it that our Juliana had this flashback when she touched Joe? You know just like she had flashbacks when she touched Trudy.
Let’s move on from the films and to the next episode, they meet each other in the dinner and once again they start to open up to each other. Again not to the level that I wanted, but it’s something. You can tell that Joe doesn’t want to talk about what happened, but he ends up telling her and notice that he doesn’t try to avoid the conversation, nor does he get mad. Then Joe protects her and they both get to her apartment where again both of them start to open up to each other. Pay attention to the dialog and remember it for when I’ll talk about episode 5. Then they sleep together, he leaves her and it’s time to talk about the infamous scene which even to this day it puzzles me from the way it’s filmed to the actions or more accurately the inaction in it. I’m talking about Joe going after Tagomi. But before that I have to ask, where’s the tricky part of winning her trust? There was nothing tricky about it, both opened up to each other and both jumped in each other’s arms the second they saw each other. Again it wasn’t want I wanted, but there was nothing difficult about it. What we saw contradicts Joe’s conversation with Himmler. Moving on to the Tagomi scene.
The scene takes place at night in a park. We see Tagomi walking in the park and slowly we see behind him someone it's not clear who but in a couple of seconds we see that it's Joe. Tagomi stops walking and Joe stops behind him and pulls out his gun and aims it at him and cocks it, but he doesn’t fire. And then Joe waits and waits and waits as the camera focuses on Tagomi and we see only Tagomi in the frame. We don't see Joe at all anymore. The camera is focused completely on Tagomi. We see Tagomi closing his eyes and focusing like he would travel to another universe, but Tagomi doesn’t travel. Then plays a sound effect like Joe's clothes disappear from that place. Honestly the best way to explain it is like it teleported from that place because that’s what it sounds like.
Then the camera looks behind Tagomi, and Joe is gone. And about 10 meters are 3 soldiers who are walking towards Tagomi and they ask him if everything it's ok. But they don't act like anyone else was there. They only react to Tagomi. Which I find impossible since all of them. Tagomi, Joe and the 3 soldiers where in a straight line. To me if Joe went to the left or to the right to leave that place then the soldiers would have seen him because they were right behind him by just 10 meters. And the place had plenty of light for them to see him.
This scene puzzles me it doesn’t make any sense to me unless they used a misdirect to fool us, but at the same time giving us enough clues to understand that Joe travelled in that moment.
2. I have to ask what’s the point of this scene, if it’s not what I think. Because if this scene was supposed to show us that Joe is too far gone in order to justify his death then it fails for one simple reason. He didn’t kill Tagomi. If the scene was meant to show us that Joe was interrupted as he told Himmler, then that’s another fail as well since we saw that he had plenty of time to kill Tagomi and get away with it and those soldiers didn’t interrupt him. He took his time for no reason, I mean just check his previous 2 missions. Both times he goes there and bang, bang problem solved. He only took his time with his first target because it was the guy from S1.
Plus if that was the point of the scene then why wasn’t it filmed differently? Why didn’t we see Joe noticing the soldiers and him hiding from them in order to tell us that he missed his chance, but will try again. Why don’t we see how Joe got away? And why is there a scene that shows us the perspective of the soldiers? After Tagomi tells the soldiers he’s fine, we have the view that the 3 soldiers saw and the scene is fully lit and we can clearly see that there’s no way Joe could’ve gone without being noticed by them. So the only logical explain that I can come up with it is that Joe travelled in that moment and another Joe took his place for the next day. Or more accurately I believe Tagomi teleported Joe. I say this because first of all Tagomi is the one that looked like he wanted to teleport from that place and secondly because of 2 lines of dialog, one in particular that made no sense to me when they were said.
Now the reason I believe Tagomi teleported Joe is because of the first line which never made sense to me giving what we were shown. Abendsen tells Juliana that Tagomi and she have this deep connection which we’ve never seen, so that let me to believe that Tagomi’s role in this is to protect Juliana, and saving Joe so he can protect her later on is that connection. Plus the second line which at first I thought it was fanservice, but then I realized the line doesn’t make sense giving the situation. It’s Tagomi’s dialog when Juliana tells him about Joe. That line is bizarrely put given the context. Juliana says “The man in the film his name is Joe Blake and he’s a friend, was.” To which Tagomi replies with the most out of context question of them all, “Do you have feelings for him?” I mean what normal person asks that and how do you even end up to that conclusion from “He’s a friend, was.”? Yes, Juliana acts weirdly in that scene that might cause someone to pick up on something, but that’s quite a stretch to jump to the conclusion of Juliana being in love with Joe, made by Tagomi a guy who barely even knows Juliana.
The scene of Joe going after Tagomi and not killing him and how it’s filmed can only make sense if the point was to tell us that Joe travelled in that moment. Otherwise the scene is completely pointless.
Granted you can say that about the whole of season 3 since let’s be honest here there are only 3 moments in it that actually are important. First one is Juliana getting magical superpowers which are not explained how she got them or what they are, second is Juliana killing Joe which killed the show and the last is Juliana travelling to other universe. The rest can be ignored or deleted because they don’t matter which is something catastrophically bad for a story. When you can delete 99.9% of it and nothing changes. That’s season 3 in a nutshell.
Also something that I noticed about this scene is that before focusing on Tagomi, they focused the camera on Joe’s face and he blinks twice with his left eye which he’s never done before, I went frame by frame to, yes I’m that obsessed. Now this can be explained by saying the scene was filmed at night and Luke was told to hold as still as possible for the camera and eventually he had to blink, but still it’s weird that he only blinked with his left eye.
This scene really makes no sense. I mean someone wrote this, actors were hired to film it. Someone filmed it, someone else directed it. Someone edited it. An audio engineer mastered it. Someone watched it after all this and yet still they released this scene like this.
Anyway let’s move on to Juliana going to Joe’s brothel room. This is where everything just falls flat on its face. Joe asks her if everything is ok to which Juliana replies with “I don’t know yet” and Joe’s response is “You are full of surprises” first of all what does that even mean? What is he talking about? Secondly her reply to him is written in a very specific way. She says “Yeah so are you. The guy at the desk said you registered under Joe Blake.” and Joe shrugs it off like he doesn’t know what she’s referring to. Why do I say this? Well because they have been hammering us with that Cinnadella name every chance they had in the previous episodes. And now all of a sudden they don’t mention it. The one time that name finally mattered is the one time they don’t use it. That cannot be a mistake, especially given how the dialog was written. You see the dialog is written in such a way that only we the audience can pick up on it, but not Joe. The dialog could’ve been written in different ways like Juliana asking him why he isn’t using his cover name, or as an observation of pointing it out like “Hey you didn’t register under your cover name, Cinnadella.” And why did they go out of their way to include this line that references his cover name? Moving on to the cherry on top, Juliana asks him “Look I need to know where you were last night and I need some honestly for a change” and Joe confused replies with “I have no idea what you’re talking about” then she asks again and again he says that he doesn’t know what she’s talking about. Here’s the kicker this moment can be easily dismissed by saying he’s lying in order to maintain his cover. However he genuinely looked and sounded like he had no idea what she was talking about. He really looks completely clueless. Plus I’ve seen interviews of Luke; this guy constantly tries to improve himself so there’s no way for him to act like this unless he was told to. Also notice that unlike the previous times when they opened up to each other, this time Joe gets really angry and violent when Juliana asks him about what happened. That’s quite a contrast from the previous day. Also I ask when has Joe ever showed any violence towards Juliana until this moment? Never is the answer. He always protected her no matter the situation and never once showed any ill intent towards her.
Anyway after they sleep together as they are in bed and Juliana tells him about the film, I want you to look at Joe’s reactions to everything she says. You will notice that the entire time he acts like he has no clue what she’s talking about. He even has a moment where he shakes his head and moves his eyes left and right like he’s processing the information and trying to come up with what to say.
Remember I said pay attention to the dialog from episode 4? Well now’s the time for it. After Joe comes out of the bathroom he sees that Lebensborn pin that Juliana discovered. Notice what he says, he says “That’s Lebensborn” to which I have to ask why didn’t he say “I’m Lebensborn” Remember Joe’s arc from season 2? How much it affected him discovering that he’s Lebensborn, and they even mentioned it in season 3 just as a reminder. Yet now he just brushes it off like it’s nothing to him. Anyway here comes the part that puzzles me. He possesses knowledge that he shouldn’t have. Like knowing about the farm house from Jamestown when he asks Juliana where she saw the Lebensborn symbol before.
Then Juliana asks him what Nebenwelt means and he instantly reveals it means the next world, a parallel world. Yet again that’s quite a stark contrast to the previous day when Juliana asks him if he believes in past lives, other lives. Remember what he said and how he acted? He said “Himmler does so maybe there’s something to it. Me? No. Not so much.” Yet again the dialog doesn’t match what we’ve seen. Yes, this is another moment that can be easily dismissed by saying he’s lying, but is he though?
Also a little something I forgot about his talk with Himmler, how exactly did Joe come to the conclusion that Juliana spent time with Abendsen? Not once did she gave that impression, all she did was asked him if he’s still looking for High Castle to which Joe replies with “No, that was Smith obsession, not mine”
Look how he acts and how he talks. In episode 4 he genuinely doesn’t believe in other worlds, yet literally the next day in lore he knows all about other words and the project on how to reach them.
3. These things plus another moment that I haven’t mentioned yet is what let me to believe the Joe we saw after the Tagomi scene, isn’t the Joe that we’ve been following. The moment I’m referring is when Tagomi and Juliana do their future reading thing. Tagomi says “Hexagram 23 Po. Splitting a part, standing a part. One moving away from the other. Something coming to an end.” What caught my attention here is “One moving away from the other”, yes he also said “Something coming to an end”, but why mention all the rest if he could’ve just said something’s about to end?
Now like I said I do want to make this as fair as possible so no one can say I’m biased towards my idea and I want to make sure I cover everything that I can think of. So let’s make a list of the things that tells us that the Joe we saw after the Tagomi scene is the Joe we’ve been following all along. And also make a list of things that tells us that he isn’t, that it’s an alternate Joe. Basically what they have in common and what they don’t. What is missing and what’s added.
Let’s start with the original Joe. He killed his father, his target is Tagomi, was tortured, takes orders from Himmler and that’s about it.
Now let’s look at Joe from after the Tagomi scene. He killed his father, his target is Tagomi, was tortured, takes orders from Himmler, his other target is High Castle, he believes and knows about other worlds, is violent towards Juliana not just physically, has knowledge that he should’ve have, doesn’t know about his cover name and acts like a completely different person.
Other things I noticed but are quite small and could mean nothing. Is how much affection he shows Juliana in ep 4 after they sleep together, in ep 5 he’s very cold towards her after they slept together.
Another thing is that the Joe we’ve been following thus far wears usually a blue shirt when he’s off duty yet in ep 5 he has a white shirt. I mention this because I recall them promoting S2 by showing the two sides of the characters and the patriot Joe I think it was wore a white shirt. Anyway that’s probably nothing, but something else caught my eye. Joe has always worn a watch on his left arm ever since the beginning, yet in ep 5 suddenly he doesn’t have one anymore.
Things just don’t add up after the Tagomi scene, nothing makes sense. From the way he acts, to the way he speaks to what he does and what he knows. Look I know I’ve been focusing on this so much, but the thing is no matter what I do, I can’t find a single logical explanation to it, except one. Every single time no matter what angle I try to apply I always end up in the same place. That our Joe travelled in that moment.
I even asked a friend who doesn’t even want to watch the show, to watch just these scenes of Joe going after Tagomi, and Juliana confronting him. And even he almost came to the same conclusion that I have.
From the way Joe disappears from that place, he said like a ghost. To that sound effect that’s not normal. To the fact that the soldiers react only to Tagomi. To Joe being clueless about what Juliana asks him. So even someone else who has no investment in the show can confirm that things are off.
Now I know someone will try to use the excuse of “He’s brainwashed. It’s so obvious. Didn’t you see that?” as an argument. Or he’s a Nazi, always was, he was evil. To which I have to say ok let’s go with the argument of Joe being brainwashed. Explain to me why he didn’t kill Tagomi when he had plenty of time to do it, how did he get away from that place without being noticed he’s not Superman so he can’t fly, why didn’t the soldiers notice him, what is that sound effect, why don’t we see how Joe got away, why do we see the soldiers perspective and see it’s fully lit, why they only react to Tagomi, why he’s completely in the dark when Juliana asks him about the previous night and why doesn’t he know about his cover name? Explain how he knows stuff that he shouldn’t, but doesn’t know stuff that he should. Explain these things.
I will tell you right now you can’t because the argument of “He’s brainwashed” falls flat on its face when presented with these questions because it doesn’t explain anything. As for “He’s a Nazi. Always was” I have to ask what show were you watching? Because he was only by title which by the way a title does not make a person. A title doesn’t mean anything. What that person believes in and what his/her actions are what determine what kind of person they are. Not a name or a title. It’s like saying you are evil because you belong to this nationality. That’s just stupid. Our beliefs and actions are what make us. Not titles.
In conclusion no matter what happens in season 4, I’m sticking to what I said because too many things just don’t make sense. To quote Sherlock or more accurately Sir Arthur Conan Doyle “Once you have eliminated the Impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth” and I’ve eliminated and took in consideration all things that were given to us and deduced that the only logical explain to all the facts is that Joe traveled that night when he didn’t kill Tagomi. It fits all the data. It’s the process of elimination.
And look I’ve seen the teaser trailer and trailer itself and all the promo pictures and other extras they have released thus far for season 4 and I know from them that Luke is not in them at all. I know that. And I know Juliana is hooking up with Discount Joe from the trailer because the scene where both are alone in that room is clearly the moment before they sleep together, which makes me vomit just thinking about.
And if it turns out that Luke truly isn’t at all in season 4 then I’ll personally adapt a new mentality called headcanon and I will ignore all the crap they made. Not just because of Joeliana, but because they ruined the story and the characters. I’m going to say something controversial here at the end about what they did to Juliana. But it’s true what they say, you either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.
Thank you to all that read this insane comment of mine.
@@NostradAlex @DelenaSwarkles I totally understand how you feel man. I just finished season 4 and am extremely disappointed. Season 3 was a letdown which was why I even took a break halfway into season 3 because there was basically no plot development. One other thing the level of detail you put into this show is amazing - you should think about screenwriting.
It should be illegal to rush an ending to such a show that started off with amazing promise. I was more into Smith and Kido's storylines and in my opinion they made the show. You can see Juliana's arc disintegrate with each episode. She's weak and relies on others when her character should be the opposite. Her romance with Wyatt is completely out of the blue and ungenuine. It seems like she forgot about Frank - she didn't even react to his death! I loved Juliana's character in the beginning seasons (her mysterious aura mixed with her daring decision making and independence) I do not know why the writers decided to make her so boring - I can see why it did not look like she cared at all when on screen.
Even Smith and Kido's storylines ended in such a bad way. They needed another season to wrap up their arcs, and just rushing it in with an ending similar to that of unicorns walking into heaven was just ridiculous.
I know viewership may be down but that's because of the shit storywriting! They wouldn't have low numbers if they understood the basis of character development and common sense. I seriously feel you paid more attention to the scenes than the ones working on the show in the last two seasons.
Soooooo disappointing....how such a great show to end like this is beyond me. I'm still in denial, I was really passionate about this show and the way they messed with Juliana's love life, inserted new characters in the FINAL Season?!? which didn't even resonate, and rushed the fates of Kido and Smith while having a completely stupid ending is horrible.
Shit like this happens in Hollywood way too frequently and it is depressing.
@@OlivierElkan Let me start by saying, sorry for taking so long to reply back. And thank you so much for that compliment. I don't know if I have it in me to be a screenwriter. There are days where I can write and think about every single detail, and then there are days where I don't even know how to start a sentence. But thank you so much for that.
Personally I wasn't that interested in Smith's or Kido's stories. With Smith I kind of saw older movies that Rufus played in and saw the same character. He kind of plays the same villain type, at least in what I've seen him in. With Kido, I liked his story in S1 and S2, but after that no.
I can not fully talk about S4, since I haven't seen it entirely and I never will. When it came out I saw bits and pieces and got a general idea of it, then read what others have said about it and it did confirm what I saw. They didn't care and they had no idea what to do with the show after Spotnitz was fired.
I believe the people left behind combined with the new showrunner just didn't care about it. And just saw an opportunity to sit back relax and enjoy the incoming paychecks for years to come, they did say after Spotnitz was fired that they have plans to continue for years, thank God Amazon cancelled them.
Because Spotnitz left them with a gold mine, at that time it was Amazon's top show. So all they had to do is do the minimum amount of work in order to release something and they get payed based on the success that Spotnitz left them with. Combine that with the new showrunner not having an interest in the show since it wasn't his show, I think Eric was working on Bosch (don't quote me on this one) and he was put to work on High Castle and Bosch at the same time, so of course the guy wasn't that pleased and just did the least amount of work and called it a day.
The thing with Juliana's character is that they destroyed her entirely. I loved how Alexa just didn't care about acting at all in S4. And rightfully so, they took away her status of main lead and main character, to not even a secondary character, but a pairing fodder for the guy no one likes and everyone told them they want him out of the show.
She's literally there to be the paired up with that prick. And it's so forced, you can see it in her body language and in her face. Just compare her scenes with Luke (Joe) to the scenes with that guy.
This is what happens when drama behind the scenes happens. Someone at Amazon who was in charge with the shows decided that High Castle was spending too much money so they fired Spotnitz and reduced the budget for it. If you look back at the first two seasons and compared them with the last, you can see the cuts. This is also why the new cast was brought in, they were cheaper than the original cast. This is also why Alexa the previous main star of the show was barely present in the so called last season, because she was too expensive for them.
Also keep in mind that the only reason S4 even exists is because they started to film for it before S3 premiered.
If they would've followed standard procedure and waiting to see how S3 performs and how fans react to it then S4 wound't even exist on paper. Keep in mind that they got cancelled as they were still filming for S4. That's how bad the reaction of the fans was.
What pisses me off is that they didn't listen at all to the fans. They couldn't fix the story, it was too late for that, only a redo will fix that. A redo of S3 and S4 with Spotnitz and declare what we got before is non-canon or it happened in another parallel universe.
But they could've at least have a saving grace, the pairing fans. Imagine towards the end, a scene where Juliana travels to another universe, goes to a dinner and from behind comes Joe with "Can I buy you a drink?" line, they talk and Joe says he's been looking for her and that day after they spend time together at her apartment, he was given a mission to kill Tagomi, but when he was about to, he couldn't because that's not him, then he somehow ended up where he is now. Meaning Tagomi or he teleported himself to other universe. Thus this is her Joe.
The Joe that she fell in love with.
I know it's cheesy and rushed, but I literally just came up with it now. It took me like 2 seconds to envision this scene.
@@NostradAlex Frank Spotnitz being forced essentially by Amazon to part ways from the show after season 2 really put a dent in the shows quality. An Amazon spokesperson said some bullshit excuse about creative differences but that's business bullshittery talk for we fired the guy. Frank and Ridley Scott spent years trying to get the show off of the ground, approached BBC who turned it down then another company then Amazon who accepted, keep in mind, this was one of the first shows of it's kind on the platform back in 2015 that really set off a trend of these original shows getting produced with an expanded budget, "Amazon originals" Imagine spending years and finally getting a network to finance and help produce the show, only for the original directors to be fired and or ousted.
I would love to know what Frank thought of how it turned out in the end. I imagine if Spotnitz had stayed, the show could of easily went on for another five year or longer since the world is so big and plenty could of been explored, not present in the novel by Phillip K Dick.
Ofc no Joe in season 4. Disappointed ☹️ I had hoped he and frank would make an appearance as people from an alt universe.
Marco Roberts no Frank ... 😭😭😭💔💔💔
Love this!!! Great!
Whats the name of the song?
Thank you so much!!
Thanks a lot!
Can‘t stop watching your video 🥰
Awww I'm so happy you liked it this much thank you!!
Amazing video
What song is?. Im sorry my bad English
Andy 1611 Thank you so much!!!
@@DelenaSwarkles Thank you very much for answering
I hope you keep making videos
Andy 1611 aww you’re so sweet!! 😍And of course!! I love making videos I won’t stop any time soon!! 😘
@@DelenaSwarkles 👍🏻🖤
Which episode was 1:59?
2x08
@@DelenaSwarkles thanks
song name please?
You are a memory by Message to Bears
Wow, I am watching it in 2024, just watched the episode where she killed him. Fuck it broke my heart, they had such amazing chemistry and the show killed him.
i should not have wached this before watching season 3.
I was just looking for a video of Joe's death scene but this is all i found. I'm afraid i don't ship them. I cringed everytime they were together. Their relationship was the weakest part of season 1 for me, such a cliché, so i thought they improved a lot in season 2, especially Joe's development and story. I was disappointed when they got back together in season 3 but i'm happy how things played out.
Those who say they ruined his character need to rewatch season 2, and pay more attention to Joe's story with his father.
Joe was just not the same after Berlin, he was too far gone and he was about to kill Tagomi (one of my favorite characters) so he had to go. I don't believe he would have hurt Juliana to be honest, but she had no choice, he became the enemy.
Happy endings and cheesy love stories are not for this show, literally everyone has a hard time, in this world no matter if you're good or bad, happines is almost impossible to achieve. If i had to chose which characters deserve good things i'm afraid i would not pick Joe.
Did joe die???
And she killed him.... what a happy ending!! 👏👏👏
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks that.
Acabas de poner el final??? me parece que tenías que poner SPOILER en mayúsculas en el título para que las personas como yo no acabemos viendo lo que no queremos ver.
what is fue name of fue song¿
You are a memory by Message to bears
I'm still waiting for the reason they showed us Joe telling her to trust him before killing her in the other universe. What was the point? I thought in season 4 they would give it a meaning but no, nothing.
The way Juliana went to that bathroom while Joe had a gun pointed to her head make no sense.
IM CRYING
do we REALLY think he's dead though?? I mean like COME ON
Our blake is dead atleast.
I never really liked Joe or Juliana, I was hoping things would work between her and Frank
juliana was the dumbest character of this show. she did too many mistakes but all of them went unpunished. she was lucky
They totally ruined the show with their forced relationship.
thanks x say it
*I heard he died... ugh, I hated this show so much though. I only barely got through season 1. Every protagonist was annoying. My memory was fuzzy, but all she had to do was leave with her then boyfriend but she basically said nah, I'm gonna look for this mysterious suspicious guy cause you know, I'm really not that into you. lol. This whole relationship was too forced for my liking. I was actually only here to see his death.*
You don't belong here
the show is boring af. i stop watching it after season 1. i can see why it have low viewers