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Hey Dad, I'm in the UK. In may I disagreed with course material from an outside source coming in to teach 5 year olds about islam. The day wasn't labelled as an islam day it was "talk from Faizal" so I questioned it, asked to see the material being used and could instantly see how biased it was. "Muslims are the greatest people" was one of the phrases i read in the text..I didn't want opinion being taught as fact, also there were no other religion days due.. only this islam one. Anyway I said I disagreed, didn't send my kids in for that day, and thought not much of it.. then in August I get a call from the police.. to go in to discuss my "xenophobic" views. I explained you can't be racist against an ideology, I'm not picturing any race.. and am also as mixed race as can be. They said if I don't go to the station, they'll arrest me 😂 Safe to say I've pulled my kids out of school, they're doing better than ever.
We pulled our son out of high school halfway through his junior year. His grades were fine...but he was bore. At 16, he has now earned 19 college credits and is working for $20 an hour learning to build houses. He loves it!
My sentiments exactly, I am teaching in NYC public schools and I am absolutely disgusted! My children will be starting grade school and I am considering trying out a private christian school for 1 year while I get my finances in order to homeschool.
@@melissajdelacruz Homeschooling costs practically nothing. Many Christian schools follow the govt school model which is antithetical to Christian education. I’d recommend looking into the classical model n You should read “ Better late than early “ by Moore n moore. And Andrew Padua’ institute for excellence in writing is FANTASTIC! God made you for your children n vice versa. By His grace you’ll be fantastic!
@@ThanksStJoseph Thank you so much for the valuae information, I will look into those resources straight away! And by "finances in order" I meant finding a way to keep up with bills so I can homeschool my children, as currently I am a single parent. 🥴
@@melissajdelacruz good for you! That’s what we did, kindergarten at a Christian private school (which had a lot of its own issues too, I went to work there that year so I saw from the inside). We saved like crazy, paid off debt, sold our house and moved to a less expensive neighborhood, and we were ready by the start of first grade. Best wishes to you!!
I would argue that it's not just public school, but many private ones too. In high school, I was severely depressed and my parents decided to take me out of my private school and switch me to the public school where my dad taught. They pulled me out mid-year and we had to sit down and have a meeting with the head of school. I was surprised to find out that I was ranked #1 in my class out of about 200 kids. They literally did not care about me leaving until they pulled up this information and then they started really begging me to reconsider. When I saw that the only reason they cared about me was because I was ranked #1 it made me want to leave even more. I later earned a full scholarship to college and ironically became a teacher. We now homeschool our own kids.
I’m sorry to hear about that experience but it sounds like you have done well. I was public schooled and fought it the entire time. I always learned so much more reading or with my grandfather than participating in their nonsense. I got the sense in school quickly that the administrative types ultimately will always look at you as a commodity. We homeschool our kids now and I couldn’t imagine doing anything different. Best wishes in your endeavors!
A good portion of our "Formal Schooling" should be scrapped. Most people, even intelligent people. learn by doing things. Most people don't learn by sitting there listening to someone lecture to them or from reading books. People need to apply what they've read in real time. If not then much of it is forgotten.
Proof that the smart ones have to stick it to the man over and over again...We have to stand against the stupidity of the present educational system. I was depressed in high school and almost pulled myself out to homeschool. My parents would have let me, as I did this successfully in 7-8 grade. I was able to make it. Went back to school to become a teacher and it is a wasteland of wasted time and potential.
My now 13 year old, was an angry, bored, nervous, self conscious, full of attitude 12 year old in the school system. I got him out and two weeks later I had my son back, fun, confident, happy, caring kid ❤ so the answer is NO, teenagers are not naturally a pain in the 🍑, their sense of self is just crushed by the school system.
Prison? Whadda yo mean? A prison is contained, locked, no one goes in without permission and, definitely, no one goes out. Doors are set with alarms. Metal detectors. Bells tell you what to do and when. Lunch is provided on melamine trays after standing in long lines. You go places on a bus. Sometimes you wear uniforms. Wait a minute,...
Public school kid. Who now homeschools 5 kids! I learned phonic when I was 29. I studied and learned each lesson the week before I taught it to my two oldest kids. We never had required reading. But they had been read to every nightly for years and years. Now they are voracious readers who do read novels and even adult, age appropriate literature. The next set of kids learning phonic now. We spread an hour a day on their school. It's amazing how excited and interested in life the oldest two (ages 9 and 10) are still. They are so curious and love to learn. I didn't really know the difference until we had family visit and they had kids the same age. Not a curious or excited bone left in their bodies. The difference was absolutely startling.... So sad but what a testimony.
@@SquirrellyMom We learned phonics in public schools... Michigan has never been a top performing educational state and I learned what most people are claiming they never learned in public school.
I started off going to catholic school/private school and I lived with my Grandparents. I was thriving. I was learning sign language in kindergarten. Reading at a high school level in elementary school. I was social, playful, and creative. I was apart of ballet and tap. I played viola. Fast forward to my dad taking me out of private school- I instantly started failing out in public school. My dad punished me for failing by taking away my things and hobbies. I was isolated and had trouble adjusting and I was learning things I knew over and over again at such a snails pace. I got bored. I got into drugs. I stopped paying attention. I dropped out of highschool and started partying. thankfully I cared enough about my potential future to get a GED. My teachers failed me and they knew everything that was going on with me. Ive made it to 22- Im homesteading now and succeeding from society and attempting to fix all the damage and loss and educate myself. One day when I have kids, they will have the privilege to go to private school or they will be homeschooled. Dont send your precious babies to these horrible prisons. Theres repercussions to everything and its so easy to mess up your kids life. Prioritize them when you have them.
I was homeschooled from 3rd-12th grade and married a public school teacher haha the way she explains the hell of her day sounds like a community center that’s design to keep kids off the street until they’re 18. All pushed through the paper mill to get a HS degree, despite the level of effort the students give.
I pulled my daughter from charter school and started homeschooling after i volunteered in classroom and saw how much time is wasted on correcting students behaviors. We love homeschooling because we get things done quickly and that leaves us with tons of time for enrichments.
I pulled my son after witnessing his class while I kept him at home on extended distant learning. Having a window into his class room was all I needed to see the true problem. That poor teacher. One teacher was so overwhelmed with horrible students that I called the front office and asked if someone would go stand by her door and witness what she is dealing with. I told them I do not at all think it's due to her being incapable...it had everything to do with she was out numbered by horribly behaved students. I watched online as the powers that be walked through that classroom and started pulling kids. I witnessed a drastic improvement in my own child's behavior once he was no longer among that daily. Behavior like that is contagious.
Relevant, insightful, and optimistic! Now if I can get my highly compensated adult kids to listen. I have 4 grandchildren (3 yrs and younger) that I hope and pray aren’t placed in “better rated” public schools. Our grandchildren’s creativity is off the scale! As their Papa I love hearing them ask “Why?” and then hearing them proclaim “I have an idea!” Great play (and learning) time!
This video has liftted a big weight off my shoulders. I feel vindicated in my choice to homeschool. And now I can tell my eighth-grade self that we were right!
That's because most of education is not really education but "formal schooling" or "indoctrination". Most people actually learn by doing something and not just sitting in a classroom for 7 hours a day listening to someone lecture to them. Some students do very well in a school setting (teacher's pet) but fail miserably at being a good productive worker. Those students usually go on to become "educators", professors, politicians, or some other type of profession where they have authority without the merit that comes from being a successful business owner or productive worker. Also, "schooling" provides no means to filter out careers that suit a person's abilities, passion, skill set, etc. So a student that might be smart enough to be an engineer would be better suited to be an electrician. But all this is by design. Anyway, I could right a book about all the things wrong with our "education" industry.
I taught a little public, and lot private, and now homeschool. My educational philosophy has been flipped upside down. While I had great experiences in private, there were many kids who still fell in the cracks. The worst experience was walking down the hallway while a group of extremely quiet 2nd graders walked single file past me. My big teaching bag bumped one of the children. I said, "Oh! I beg your pardon." She whispered, "That's okay." The teacher yelled, "That's a deMERit! No talking in the HALLway!" I felt sick. I can only imagine how the child felt. Now, my son is blissfully happy to be homeschooled, as he has to deal with the drama his public schooled friends provide daily.
The schools are a reflection of the rest of society. What is our society marked by? Distrust and racial resentment. Granted, this is promoted by the schools themselves as well, so they don't help their case. The system, we are taught, is inherently evil, and thus, must be held in contempt. The result is what we see in Orwell's 1984 where everyone over 30 is scared of children as they are most ready to "turn in" what they view as the gatekeepers of the old way, the bad way. In other words, schools can't afford to tailor to students. The societal malaise and indignation can't allow for catering to individual students.
I love home schooling and giving children many hours a day to pursue their interests and play. However, it is silly to never direct a child or make them persevere in something they don’t like. Also, parents have an obligation to pass on wisdom to their children and not just leave them to discover everything for themselves, reinventing the wheel. All of us who watched this video just benefited from more “sage on the stage” type education. Yes, creativity and delight in learning are so important, but so are discipline and obedience and the ability to persevere through dull tasks. Don’t forget that the much praised one room school house was a place where students were forced to sit perfectly still and focus, mostly memorizing and following the exact format of the books, not pursuing their own interests
It doesn't sound like they were implying not to have any structure or goals in your homeschool. But homeschool will always lend itself to be more free and individualist. Homeschool will always give children more free time and time for rabbit trails, even if you have a very strict, traditional school day. You don't have the travel time to ans from school, you don't have to worry about homework in the evening 😊
Homeschooling is very very hard for a working single parent. I considered it but had no one to care for my kids while I worked during the day. The best I could do was take every penny I earned and put them in a private school.
@@sumerian2when they are in elementary school yes but by middle school the child can be given goals and consequences and expectations. After work guidance to check work or answer questions.
@@Kevin.Grindel this is very good. Homeschooling allows you to set your own schedule too. When I worked we homesched mostly on the weekends and honestly it was at most 3 hours a day. People have to actually be creative and figure things out instead of just saying well it doesn't work for me because xyz. Homeschooling literally gives you the ability to adjust your child's education much more freely than any private or public school will.
Thank God I decided in 2021 to homeschool my 3 beautiful children ♥️ I don’t regret it one bit! Society is good at having parents doubt their ability to even educate their children in academics, all you need to do is pick the program you want to use & patience! Patience is key 🔑
My mother says I was able to hold conversation at 18 months, was counting to 100 in Spanish by 2y (I learned from a neighbor apparently, no one on my family speaks Spanish), could read and write before kindergarten, blah blah, all these things. Yet, I don't remember any of this, I did very well in early elementary school, "gifted", despite various traumas, by 6th grade I was effectively shut down. Conform and get by was the theme until I graduated. I could never put my children through that.
I was a teacher for 30 years and it was brutal to watch the damage being done to kids. I did my best to give my students the opportunities and messages you are speaking about but I felt like my hands were tied most of the time. The system makes it almost impossible. Now I’m retired but my passion to help change the system has not! I feel so happy to have watched this video and to have discovered Hannah! Thanks to her website, I now have some avenues to follow, some people to maybe reach out to so that I can be a part of helping these poor kids (and their parents). I truly feel that parents don’t understand just HOW BAD it is. It’s like processed food …
New homeschooling Mom here, this is so encouraging! Thank you. Confirms all the suspicions I had of the public school system (I taught for 7 years and saw and lived this first hand).
Homeschooling has been amazing for our home. Once I pulled my child out of daycare and decided to homeschool has been game changer. 4 years later we still love it and have an amazing community of homeschoolers ❤
I am an old man now, so my observation about my public school education is ancient. However, certain themes may remain the same. The most important failure of public education from my current place in life is its failure to have taught me anything about what being a human being is about. That education was focused on my future as a “human doing” in the world of work: my life as a working man, not my life as a formative member of a living species. I never really knew what I most wanted to do because I never really knew who I was from the inside out! The second biggest failure of my public school education was its lack of grounding in the rigors of a “classical education,” so-called. Teachers were largely empathic women (not a criticism), and too infrequently demanding men (not high praise), thus my introduction to higher achievement based on the rigorous demands of the workplace was inept!
I learned how to type (laptop), home economics (cooking) (bath reading, writing, math skills). Other than that I could have dropped out after 8th grade and been fine....
@steve19811 I agree. Similar to me. I also learned to type and how to sew in school...all that in the 8th grade which was the worse year since we didn't have a math or science teacher for a whole year. 🙃 after that,.pointless.
Most people learn by doing things. It can help to learn how to read, write, arithmetic, etc. . the basics. But at the end of the day if a kid isn't applying what they've learned or are not that interested in the subject it just a lot of wasted time.
It’s so nice to read that parents homeschool their children. We don’t all have the same support. I was raised by a single mom with a third grade education in Mexico. She struggled to raise two children and was verbally and physically abusive. To me public school was a somewhat “safe” place where I could eat and meet other people. Some teachers were nice and yes I did learn. My brother got a scholarship and he loved school. He went to become a computer programmer. I had kids and got married. But by God’s mercy and grace, I was as able to go back to school and I became a teacher. I work at a title one school with similar demographics as the one I went to. I love my job. I understand the system is a mess, but I do my best to love on my students and teach them not only school but life. I truly believe that God has placed me in the classroom and I understand the responsibility that I have for those children. I pray for them and I feel blessed to be their teacher.
*_Another EVIL in Education_* took me quite by surprise. Andrew Huberman discussed how children would naturally do things they enjoyed, but when they got gold stars for doing the same things, they stopped doing them. And the reason is quite startling. The kids were becoming spoiled by *_post-activity rewards._* They were learning that a reward comes after the activity, rather than merely *_enjoying the activity_* which was itself the reward. This has major implications on self-discipline, procrastination, etc. 😎♥✝🇺🇸💯
@@TranslatedAssumption As opposed to productivity in what?... the sense of getting a Round Tuit, slovenly relaxation? Good knowledge leads to Wisdom, including *_Better Choices._* If someone is *_stupid,_* their choices are not as likely to be good ones. 😎♥✝🇺🇸💯
The decline began when language arts, music, art were removed. How to improve: Bring back these (and add new) 1. Scriptive handwriting 2. Art 3. Music 4. Creative writing 5. Home Economics 6. Finance 7. Social ethics and etiquette 8. Critical thinking These must be installed and reinstalled and help the parents understand the concepts therein. But the school unfortunately can not do it alone. The parents are (and still are) the front line of it all. It's an uphill battle but it can be done...
I’m in my 40’s and my dad attended a one-room school house for elementary school in a very rural community. My grandpas both only had an 8th grade education. So there are sections of the country that do have a tie to a time gone by. I am now homeschooling my kids.
FYI, I’m super anti public school, but measuring at 8th grade is considered to be a fluent reading and literacy level. There’s other better data driven ways to criticize the performance of the school system than using this specific talking point.
I'm in my 30s, and there were one-room schools attached to the inner-city universities I attended as a trainee teacher. We were all very keen to do a teaching practicum in those schools, but of course places were very limited. Rural Australia still has one-room schools, where several friends and fellow graduates taught. I went on to teach in a small Catholic school with composite classrooms (two grades in each class); and there were composite classrooms in the large suburban primary school I attended as a child. None of those situations was considered 'weird'.
I'm 41 and my mom and dad were both educated in one room schools. They learned Latin in grade school. My Mom then taught school at 18 in one room schools. We ❤ homeschooling!!
My grandfather didn’t finish middle school yet he was smart and more literate than most of the phd students at the prestige university I work at! No lie.
I can imagine a foster home situation on a hobby farm with a micro-school where kids learn to create and build together in contact with nature. It could be transformative for kids thrown from bad situation to bad situation in cityscapes.
One of the things I realized half a century ago, a few years *_after_* graduating in the top 10% of my high school class, in the 3rd highest rated school district in the country at the time: *_The educational system sucks!_* For one thing, the system caters to the needs of the faculty and NOT the students. And though I never experienced failing an entire year, the thought of that kind of tragedy terrified me -- losing a huge percentage of my life on a wasted year. Such tragedies could be prevented if schools, instead, cater to the needs of the STUDENT. Educate at the individual's pace. Teach to *_understanding and application,_* not mere rote memorization. *_ALMOST FAILED FIRST GRADE_* But I almost did fail first grade, if it had not been for the heroic efforts of my first grade teacher in Klamath Falls, Oregon. For some strange reason, I had a difficult time learning the alphabet, and learning to read. Math was easy. But my top 1% IQ of 139 did NOT help me overcome my reading difficulty. *_Personal, one-on-one tutoring by the teacher, after class_* is what it took to get me over that hurdle. Years later, after I published my first novel (co-authored with John "Dalmas" Jones), I sent her a copy with my heartfelt thanks. In the 1990s, I decided to go back to school, studying computer science, finally earning a degree summa cum laude in 2004. I worked a few years as a software engineer, and then moved to the Philippines, where I married the love of my life. *_MORE FLAWS IN EDUCATION_* In 2015, I had the good fortune to teach for a couple of semesters. What troubled me was that so many of the non-business students were horrible at math. The method I used on the board confused some of them. "Sir, that's not the way we learned to do it." And what this simple proclamation told me was that they had *_Lousy Teachers_* who ALSO did not know the reasons why for each of the steps they taught. They taught by rote memorization, instead of to understanding. And this was why they had such a difficult time doing word problems. Nature never gives its details in the form of the rote, step-by-step methods taught by unthinking, *_incompetent_* teachers. And those poor teachers were likely taught by the same, unthinking methods. *_PATTERNS OF EXCELLENCE_* While working on a client's book, recently, I learned of the *_Hungarian Genius Schools._* With only half the population of Germany, Hungary produced just as many Nobel Prize-winning scientists. This is because they did NOT learn by rote, but had to be capable of developing the Pythagorean Theorem on their own, and other Jewels of Science and Logic. I've had both kinds of careers -- creative and logical. I was a Hollywood Artist with screen credit and one-man shows of my art. And I was a Software Engineer, working for several major corporations, and creating my own 3D astronomy software, *_Stars in the NeighborHood._* I have a unique perspective on the need to nurture BOTH creativity and critical thinking. And I pray that God will give me time to make good use of the talents He gave me, toward that end. 😎♥✝🇺🇸💯
@@Famr4evr Couldn't agree *_more!_* Exactly! But we all need to be educated how one group of people have been poisoning our educational system for well over a century. 😎♥✝🇺🇸💯
I went to that sort of school system. I think our high school was like number two in our state and probably in the top 30 or 50 in the country. And you know what, it did standard education very well - FWIW. Our k-12 and high schools were affluent, so could draw the best teachers and have things like Great Books and gifted programs, and top notch athletic programs to keep non- academically inclined students engage enough to keep coming and at least, not fail their classes! We also have vocational and programs whose graduates have probably far out earned many of us college degreed. Even as a kid, I wasn't that excited about studying what they told me to study. I had my own self-directed study program. Including the Bible, ancient history ( I don't think any of my friends were reading, for instance, The Decline and Fall of Rome at 11), the paranormal, consciousness and human potential, drawing, and music. ( school did help me out a lot with the music basics and some theory -- but most of what I know about chord theory, I've taught myself . Also,, I learned drawing from people like Charles and Schultz and Betty Edwards.) Even back in High school, the late 80s, I read books like "Superlearning" (Ostrander et al) and even some of the original books on NLP, that made me aware that what we called education -- even in our great school district -- was really the slow lane. Yes, we were faster than a lot of the other school systems, but that just meant we were the fastest turtle.
Defective Gen Z here that went through public school. I want a kids, I want a family, and I want to improve the future. I don't see public school helping the next generation so I'm planning on home schooling and willing to make that sacrifice. I have friends who are around my age who agree with this and have also gone through public school. All hope is not lost.
This is so validating as I have to constantly explain to parents why I want to spend more time with my child as well as give them the opportunity to learn the way they want to, and have the freedom to be creative all the time.
I'm an elementary art teacher by trade, and now direction curriculum for an after school program. This converschanged my approach completely. Student-driven seems to be the new chapter if we want creative thinkers and not industrial brain meats. 🤔 I love this. It's so challenging to norms in educational models, and I flipping love it. Thanks Dad and Hannah.
This is my favorite this ever. I would love to hear more about how this has impacted you. Email me at contact@dadsavesamerica.com and let’s hop on a zoom call!
Pulled my kids out and am having them do homeschooling they are loving it. 2.5-3h a day when they choose. They sometimes do weekends as well to get done early. As for my younger one, was behind by 2 years. The school was placing my child of to the side. She is learning faster in the 3 hrs than she learned in a month! Why wouldn’t a parent want to know what there kid is learning!
I really love this conversation . I don't think it will work for the masses. I am creative. I sent my child to school so they could learn academics. After-school she chose piano, cross country, dance and song writing. She was able to maneuver in college and the entrepreneur world. ITS NOT EITHER OR WE NEED TO FIND PRACTICAL WAYS TO INTORGRATE THE LEARNING MODEL All parents do not home school well. When students came to school from homeschooling , most children did very poorly. Some home schoolers do great some home schoolers seem so lost academically when they return to school.
The public school system ejected me at 15yrs old and it changed my life dramatically for the better almost immediately. 4 years later I got trapped by higher education and couldn't understand why those adults were selling me BS?
As a public school teacher I agree with most of this discussion, I know the problem with system. There were some comments I disagree with - the killing of questioning for example. Teachers cannot answer all questions and students need to focus questions on the topic being explored. Killing of the interest in a subject may just be changing interests which emerge over time. A few contradictions - that students only need to master 60 to 70% to move on, and then praising model where students can decide not to study a specific subject. Difference? The problem there is who know what a student may need to know three years from now. So knowledge needs to be based on previous learning acquired years earlier. The online learning model proved inefficient during covid, but largeply due to the reduced expectations and requirements due to the public model of teaching to the lowest denominator. The model is possible but needs tough standards and expectations. Public education needs some revisions - first closing all the colleges of education ans requiring all professors of education to regularly take on a full teaching load in the subject and grade level they claim to be an expert in. They are too detached from the reality of the classroom and too into theory. That is the greatest harm to education.
The difference is that, if you only know 60 or 70% and move on, in a structured, step-by-step system, you will not be able to accomplish the next steps. If you learn what you’re interested in and move on, you can come back and fill in the gaps, if your interest is renewed. Public school just keeps you marching forward down the linear path to shallow ‘success’.
Serious question, do teachers ever explain to their students how to look up an answer to the question? Know why books are so valuable in this case? It's because books can provide a clear, concise answer to the question being asked without the frills of some hidden agenda.
@@mht5875 - yes, teachers want students to go into the text, that is a skill that needs to be worked on. In terms of an agenda, sadly often the assigned text may have an agenda. There is no such thing as an unbiased source, and we need to teach students to recognize that and also introduce them to conflicting interpretations. I teach History and Social Science, some textbooks are more balanced than others. Some are way too the Left. I saw on text for a course, I am unsure which one, "Why We Have to be Feminists". We are now finally offering a course on economics, I would love to see that text. Luckily, a course on Race, Class and Gender was shot down. I saw the textbook and expressed my concerns - where are the counter arguments. (I would recommend reading "Cyncial Theories"!)
My newborn woke up in the middle of the night and I started watching this. Now they’re finally back asleep and it’s time for me to head to work. I’m a first year teacher. 😂🤯
Public schooled myself. Graduated 2002. Went to university, graduated with 4 year degree. Commissioned into the Navy. We had 3 kids while my husband and I served. Missed them so much that we discussed homeschooling, but put my son in Kindergarten. Didn’t agree with the 7 hours, with homework, little recess for 5 & 6 year olds. This was a charter school on an island too… discussed putting him in first grade there and our second child in kindergarten. Two weeks before school started the Mission Statement of the school changed from “exploring and discovering truth..” to “ improving test scores and aptitude tests..” I realized then that the measurement of what the state required wasn’t best. Don’t co-parent with the government! Been homeschooling for 12 years. Cannot tell you how great their accomplishments and personal successes are! Holding conversations with adults, passion for their foci, and compassion for others. Highly socialized! Yes, they have gaps, we all do. If you’re think about it, do it! It won’t look like the public school because it isn’t!
Thanks so much for this enlightenment! I had taught in a school for 27 years but when I had my set of triplets, I decided to begin homeschooling my children. Listening to this podcast has given me great insights and more enthusiasm about our homeschooling. God bless you and keep up the good work.
I am from Canada. I just wanted to share an experience I had in Grade 8 in the late 80s leading up to going to high school. I was interested in school and tried pretty hard. At that level, if you completed all you course work, you were rewarded with extra work that was creative and not graded. This was something I found fun. This was a French school, and though my family is bilingual, my mother tongue was English. The French teacher was very strict and for a sensitive kid like me, rather scary. She was a very good teacher in one way because the subject was drilled into you. Anyway, one time, the extra work I picked out was to write a story. This was in french, of course. I worked hard on it and used all the information she taught the class about grammar. I had use of a dictionary and tried super hard. I was proud of it, but mostly, I enjoyed it. I handed it in, and the following day, she read it in front of the class and accused me of plagiarism. I stormed out. In the following years in high school, I didn't try in french class. I did rather poorly. I don't know if this had an impact on my grades or if I was distracted. I am angry about it still, even though I obviously should let it go. The schools here now that I have kids spend so much time on discipline (unless a child is in IB) from the sounds of it. Group work seems to be the model even though I think independent work is equally or more important. Very interesting guest. I spent a little time with a homeschooled kid helping him get into art school. He's a good kid but wasn't very good at taking advice. Always on the defensive. He did get into the art school, but I hope he learns to take some advice without arguing. It's so important to be open to commentary. I wonder if this is why he ended up being homeschooled in the first place. Really great kid. I hope he does well in film.
I had something similar happen to me in college. Prof accused me of cheating which I never did and it really shook me so much that it still my stomach flip recalling it now. Teachers have a lot of power over young minds.
The relief on my sons face when i told him we would be actively learning through homeschooling through his next 4 years of high school was the sign i needed that i was doing the right thing for him. We dont even follow ĝrade level curriculums. He tells me what he is interested in and we go with it. Or we pick a subject and ask a questuon. I live in Idaho where homeschooling laws are super lax. I am so happy that my kid is excited about learning again.
Grades are probably trending up because teachers are being encouraged to change grades by their administration. I'm saying this as a former public school teacher.
That’s exactly what’s happening. You are indirectly coheres to out right lie or “curve” grades. Or grade base on “completion”. The amount of assignments given to teachers it’s insane. 🤯
This is the most balanced and helpful evaluation of the current state of education that I have heard to date. This is the first I've heard from Hannah and Renegade Educator. Can't wait to learn more. I've raised 2 families of kids, taught graphic arts in a juvenile correctional facility, and spent many years as a church youth leader. This has allowed 50 years of observation in what works and what doesn't. Based on my experience, she is expressing the best path forward. Wow! Thank you, Dad Saves America, for pursuing this.
She’s interesting because she is aware of so many different programs but she ought to address the conditions needed for participating in these non-public schools, like tuition!
I work as a teacher aid and taught overseas. You constantly see people blame the teachers, but I don't think most of it is their fault. Some teachers are bitter but in general, they follow guidelines and 20-30 kids to teach. Usually half of the class is spent on dealing with behavior from 2-4 problem students which then the parent sides with their kid not thinking anything is wrong on their end. I don't really have a a solution but I do think people are quick to blame teachers.
She is right about everything. I attended public school and in 7th grade, I had a teacher that didn’t actually teach so we cheated because he was never in the room. We passed, and then 8th grade came and we were all behind. We continued to be behind throughout high school and never caught up because we never had the chance to. I still struggle with math! Also, I was bullied so harshly that I tried to take my life twice during my high school years. It’s not worth it! My dad had a baby a few years ago around the same time I had my first child and he realizes now that he should’ve listened to my grandmother and pulled me out. Now he wants to home school his youngest. I’m homeschooling both of my children.
Homeschooling allows your child to think autonomously. You get to really know your child through all the stages of their life and connect with them. It's wholistic parenting!
First time coming across this guy... really felt his passion and emotion at 2:03:45- 2:05:40... Priority. "I'm not going to turn my kids over to a broken and corrupt system" Wow... Most powerful, and mist true.
I was a public teacher turned homeschool mom and struggle with this internal battle of how best to educate my kids partly because i was education through the public schools and taught there. My university had us observing classrooms early on in our program but student taught at the very end to put into practice what we had been taught. Also, my son would never choose to want to learn math, but i still push him to learn it because i love him and know there are certainly basics of math he needs to know. Having the real life opportunities for him to use the math and is a wonderful blessing in homeschool (like making it on time to a movie he wants to see at the theater, requires a lot of clock skills) even using money to buy the movie ticket etc, of which i have him do. But we have switched math curricula 3 times in order to find a better (not perfect) fit. One that has more application and games. Will i make him do math all the way through senior year into calculus etc? Not if he doesnt want to or realize the need for it for what he seeks to do for a career. But i think it should be noted that especially the basics of the 3Rs are important to require our kids to learn to build a foundation as a jumping off point for them to be interested in learning and have the ability to follow their interests (example: ability to read books about their interests). We also must train them in logic and critical thinking skills to be able to evaluate if what information they are taking in is true. I struggle with my younger kids not wanting to learn even the basics let alone have time for all the other things they are interested in. I have a hard time seeing what child-led really looks like. I also have a hard time with going against the "bell-system" as that is often how i can motivate my kids to work their hardest knowing that when the timer rings they can move on to something else. In some jobs/careers we fo have to switch rapidly from 1 task to another and cant just stay hyper focused on 1 thing. But i also see how the bells and timers can go overboard. Anyways thanks for this information. Any feedback on these thoughts would be helpful as im trying to break out of the public school model even at home but also guide my kids into loving and being interested in learning and following their interests.
This was such an enjoyable discussion. No judgement, just talk of options about what works and doesn’t. It is important for us as citizens to actually look at results and make good decisions for our families.
Hannah mentioned that majority of the kids from the Sudbury academy ended up pursuing music and arts. Without the adult supervision and adults who can teach math sciences, the kids will tend to choose what is easy and fun. They are not gonna learn hard and dry/boring content like math and science on their own. That’s just human nature. Majority of kids aren’t gonna learn to become experts without an insight a teacher who is an expert at the subject they teach. A teacher can show nuances of various concepts that may not be written or highlighted in any text.
I have been saying all this time. The school system is designed to train and prepared all those kids to be the next future workers for the corporation industry. Just look at the school system set up. 1. They make the kids get used to be up early as 5 or 6am for 5 days a week( just like a job), 2. Make the kids learn to follow, obey and dont talk back at the teachers( just like a job with your boss). 3. Make the kids overschooled by have them sit in a classroom for 8 plus hours daily( like a job)..... Everything about the school system is literally preparing you to what it means to work without passion, curiousity, and freedom to do so.
Gatto is a must-read. I recommend his little collection of essays *Dumbing Us Down* to every parent I know, because it rarely occurs to anyone to question our public education system on the most fundamental level. People think that system can or should be changed in some vague way. (In much the same sense, people think that our political system would benefit from these unspecified changes. Tweaks, in other words - cosmetic changes. No one ever says, "Hey, maybe we should just retire the whole thing and start from scratch. It's beyond repair.")
I agree that the public schools need to be reformed. But this interview sounds like we are putting all of the child hopes and dreams on the public schools. What are the parents roles in raising this child, what is the churches role in raising this child, and what is the true communities role in helping raise this child. it’s not just the public schools. We lay too much on them.
I noticed US teachers in elementary schools do not know math yet they “teach” it but they can’t do it in an absorbing way, kids are bored and not taken away by it, and that is a crime! Math is fascinating and it’s on every corner of our material world, no one shows kids that material world is fractal for example, anything that is beautiful has golden ratio within and so on…
Absolutely agree! I taught in a public elementary school and I can confidently say that most of the teachers did not know how to teach math and likely couldn't have passed a math GED test...
THIS explains SOOOO much about my mental health struggles. I’m an older millennial, went to public school my whole life. I hated it. Especially middle school. I was not good at math and there weren’t resources like there are today. My parents couldn’t help me with anything past elementary school curriculum. Unfortunately, “alternative” schooling like Montessori and Waldorf type schools are for the elites. They don’t cater to low income communities which makes me wonder…..
The only experience I have is my own from 50 years ago. I found that large groups of children tend to be vicious to each other. I was not bullied but I saw many others being bullied. I also was not and never have been a morning person. I learn NOTHING in the morning. Schools start too early which I assume is to be convenient for the parents work. When I was in 4th and 5fh grade to school was so overcrowded that we went to school in two shifts. In fourth grade I was in school from 12:00 to 6:00 and when I was in fifth grade I was in class from 6:00am to 12:00. I can clearly remember 4th grade and 5th grade is a hazy blur and I'm sure I learned nothing.
The public schooling system is based on the Prussian model of schooling, which was designed for the needs of the 19th century industrial revolution in mind. It was designed to turn children into obedient drones, the perfect mill and factory workers! Prussia was an absolute monarchy at the time and when they invented modern government run compulsory schooling, Prussia had just suffered a crushing defeat by Napoleon's French army. However, because far fewer jobs in the developed world are these repetitive factory jobs, there's no longer a need for the old mode of education.
When I was in 2nd grade, we were going over the difference between reptiles and mammals. I remember being confused by birds and how they fit in in the two categories, so I raised my hand to ask and my teacher literally scoffed at the question and just said “they’re brids” and the other kids laughed at me. I don’t think I raised my hand in a class again. I get kingdoms and phylum’s are a bit heavy to get in to but dang Mrs. Sikes.
I went to Benson polytechnic highschool PDX. Made me the Man I am today. Not all public Schools are the same. My children go to a Hawaiian public charter school... They learn the value of the earth and Hawaiian culture dance and chanting.
I decided to homeschool because of the time factor. 8-9 hours per weekday counting all the logistics. I didn’t have enough time to play that character foundation. The first hour after school my kids spent letting their guard down from following rules and fitting in with peers ALL.DAY.LONG.
She's WONDERFUL! Wow! She has such great understanding of education and of children. 1:36:40 I wish I had gone to a school where I had been treated like that! That's what I wanted. To learn about what I was interested in, and have help when I needed it, but otherwise to be left alone. Then it wouldn't have felt like prison to me. The way we "educate" children amounts to nothing but child mistreatment and crushing of human potential and creative spark.
Many parents desire personalized attention and assessment for their children, recognizing their unique needs, strengths, and challenges. However, the current educational system often emphasizes uniformity, with grading standards applied collectively across all students, which may not fully address individual differences. This mismatch can lead to dissatisfaction among parents who feel that their child’s specific circumstances or abilities are not adequately considered within the broader system.
"Self-directed education." What Ms. Frankman is doing, and needs to do as some scale, is implement this approach for a large swath of students, especially the ones I teach (urban, colored, middle class-poor), and show scientifically this approach improves learning outcomes.
A couple questions: 1. How can you be middle-class poor. Aren't you either poor or middle classed? 2. Could it be better that these underaged poor actually be working to make ends meet, rather than being schooled? I think parental freedom is important, but children need freedom too. Frankman seems to think that all parents share this common goodwill towards their children, but I think there are a lot of children who would rather be truants and parents that are happy with that. But our society has rejected indigent youth. So instead, we have chained them to their neglectful parents for years.
@@Oatriumph The term I prefer is 'working-class': you pay bills, have food, clothing, shelter, but a sudden crisis (car repair, health emergency, etc.), would cause problems.
This woman is wonderful, and her initiative is LONG overdue! I started public school in 1968 and other than sheepishly interacting with other kids, hated every soul crushing minute of it. I was good at writing and visual art, until they sucked the enthusiasm away. I kept my love for music in spite of them. I took an I.Q. test and scored a 148. Back then they didn't have "special" classes, which was probably a blessing. I hated sending my kids to school. Watching them enjoy their living and learning in the Summers, and hating going back to school should be a clue for parents. These schools have sucked for a long time. If I had my way, compulsory schooling would be cured by realtors and auctioneers selling everything and giving it back to the taxpayers. We live in the information age. Self directed or loosely directed learning should be easier than picking up and dropping off your kids at school. And the retention of the $550 property tax collected from us (monthly!) would go a long ways toward keeping mom or dad home!
Her mentality only works for upper class families in a developed country. I LIVE IN A THIRD WORLD COUNTRY and trust me we have to be imaginative just to even eat, we learn really early in life that there are people that inherit the world and others that have to work in it and that's fine because that's the cycle of life and the delicate balance of nature. The education system helps us understand the society we live in and fail at it so we can do it right when we grow up so in a third world country education is more of a moral journey so we can make our society better.
Where do you live? A friend of mine, James Tooley, studied how some of the poorest communities in the world are sending their kids in large numbers (often a majority of the community) to small private schools even with a “free” government option. The books is called The Beautiful Tree.
@@DadSavesAmerica I was raised in Massachusetts USA but I live in Dominican Republic my home country, I teach ELA in a private international middle school. I really want to help my students, country and society, so please keep making these videos, thanks. Yes it's true poorer countries have to send them to private schools for numerous reasons, mainly for moral and ethic reasons.
Yes, testing: A tool of the system not at the benefit of the student...not a lifelong benefit, yet it affects their self perception for a lifetime. Nor does it promote their strength n talents.
Your discussion on creative writing reminds me of a great experience I had as a substitute teacher. The kids had finished their busy work, and it was near a holiday so it was kind of crazy anyway. So I had some kids coming up and asking me what they could do. They had writing projects they were working on, and some kids had finished. So I told him to write me a story and tell me it when he finished (it was 3rd grade). He said "what should I write about?" "Well what kind of stuff do you like right now?" "I like dinosaurs and ninjas" "Awesome! Write me a story about ninjas fighting dinosaurs!" By the end of the day he had a full story and a map and a drawing of the dinosaur (which now was a dragon) to show me. I still have the map he gave me.
My daughter had that gnome book! I remember her coming to me and declaring, "I think gnomes are real" in a tone that sounded like she had insider information about the Kennedy assassination. She was a terrifically fun kid.
School is where children learn to cope with prison, then they graduate & many end up in prison. They do end of year/semester tests to see how many more prisons they need to build.
I was done in grade 8. Even as a child I could tell I was being taught by the bottom 10% of humanity. By the time I was in grade 7 I was reading Kofka and looking around me with my jaw hanging open at the mirror it was providing to the workings of my school. Canadian schools are basically garbage from top to bottom
Hannah, "kids are passing with 70% proficiency in ( insert subject matter) meaning they're 30% deficient. You wouldn't construct the next floor of a building, only 70% done." Also, Hannah, "falling behind is not worrisome. Kids learning to read at 8 yo vs 5 is not a big deal. They will catch up." Sounds like she is now arguing for starting the building on the 4th floor.
No. It means you can start at the first floor but if you help that kid enough, he will get to the 10th floor on time with the kid that started at the 4th.
I didn't lean to read or do math Until middle school because that's when my mom pulled me out of my public Grade school. And now I'm doing college online and heading off in the spring
Gatto was not even a historian by trade, but wrote probably one of the most important histories of the United States of America, disguised as a history of American education.
Far more than homeschooling, school choice (including homeschooling) is absolutely necessary. Unfortunately, it's impossible for many families to properly educate children themselves.
"learning for the task not the test" 🤯that was the story of my life in middle/high school. I recall enjoying school up to the 6 grade but something happened after that and everything went down hill. By the time I finished my sophomore year I was over it and my mom thankfully agreed to pull me out and I homeschool my last year. I had enough "credits" so I only needed 1 more year. I now look back and see school did not nurture creativity in me. I never considered myself creative but now that I've left the 9-5 rat race school trained me for my creativity is flourishing and I'm excited to be learning again. I said if I ever had kids I'd homeschool.
I was on a plane one time sitting next to a woman who went on and on and on about how proud and educated her adult kids were doing academically. She was very vested in them being successful or perceived to be successful for her own ego. When she asked me what I do, I told her I've been retired for 15 years. That blew her mind because that would make me retired at around 40. No I was not retired in the sense at most think. I was flying to a job site and she did remember me saying something. When we first started about that. She could not understand how I could be retired. So I played the part for a while and that's when I realized that retirement for a lot of people trumps education.
Its definitely not a privilege. My husband and I toggle work schedules to do this. We have the old house, the old paid off car, and I cook every day at home to make this work. The sacrifices are huge. But soooo worth it. I used to teach public school. My husband works as a night custodian at a high school. We've seen the dark underbelly of public school. I lost my oldest daughter to suicide from constant bullying and social pressure and a teacher who overwhelmed the students with homework. Now we have a 4 year old. No way in hell will I send her precious soul into the meat grinder of government education. The peace of mind is worth every bit of the struggle.
Very interesting video. I'd be curious of their input on the social awkwardness kids face being in such different school systems from the majority of their peers. Also, montessori school sounds great. Buy what happens when you 'finish' in middle school & the program is over? I feel any other school option to continue would be a jarring difference.
My 21 year-old son told us many times ( he is now a very successful youtuber- makes more money than I do - lol ) that he learned everything valuable on his own and virtually nothing from public school... the only thing he got from public school he says - is to develop a tough thick skin and also a helpful contrast to what he believes and thinks..... (the opposite of what he got at public school...)
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Hey Dad, I'm in the UK. In may I disagreed with course material from an outside source coming in to teach 5 year olds about islam. The day wasn't labelled as an islam day it was "talk from Faizal" so I questioned it, asked to see the material being used and could instantly see how biased it was. "Muslims are the greatest people" was one of the phrases i read in the text..I didn't want opinion being taught as fact, also there were no other religion days due.. only this islam one. Anyway I said I disagreed, didn't send my kids in for that day, and thought not much of it.. then in August I get a call from the police.. to go in to discuss my "xenophobic" views. I explained you can't be racist against an ideology, I'm not picturing any race.. and am also as mixed race as can be. They said if I don't go to the station, they'll arrest me 😂
Safe to say I've pulled my kids out of school, they're doing better than ever.
Bring Dean Gotcher on! Praxis
We pulled our son out of high school halfway through his junior year. His grades were fine...but he was bore. At 16, he has now earned 19 college credits and is working for $20 an hour learning to build houses. He loves it!
For parents concerned that they can’t homeschool: I was a teacher for 11 years and it can’t be worse than what I’ve seen on the inside
💯 (worked at a public school district office for 7 yrs…that made me decide I’d homeschool my future kids then. Been doing so for past 12 yrs now)
My sentiments exactly, I am teaching in NYC public schools and I am absolutely disgusted! My children will be starting grade school and I am considering trying out a private christian school for 1 year while I get my finances in order to homeschool.
@@melissajdelacruz Homeschooling costs practically nothing. Many Christian schools follow the govt school model which is antithetical to Christian education. I’d recommend looking into the classical model n You should read “ Better late than early “ by Moore n moore. And Andrew Padua’ institute for excellence in writing is FANTASTIC! God made you for your children n vice versa. By His grace you’ll be fantastic!
@@ThanksStJoseph Thank you so much for the valuae information, I will look into those resources straight away! And by "finances in order" I meant finding a way to keep up with bills so I can homeschool my children, as currently I am a single parent. 🥴
@@melissajdelacruz good for you! That’s what we did, kindergarten at a Christian private school (which had a lot of its own issues too, I went to work there that year so I saw from the inside). We saved like crazy, paid off debt, sold our house and moved to a less expensive neighborhood, and we were ready by the start of first grade. Best wishes to you!!
I would argue that it's not just public school, but many private ones too. In high school, I was severely depressed and my parents decided to take me out of my private school and switch me to the public school where my dad taught. They pulled me out mid-year and we had to sit down and have a meeting with the head of school. I was surprised to find out that I was ranked #1 in my class out of about 200 kids. They literally did not care about me leaving until they pulled up this information and then they started really begging me to reconsider. When I saw that the only reason they cared about me was because I was ranked #1 it made me want to leave even more. I later earned a full scholarship to college and ironically became a teacher. We now homeschool our own kids.
I’m sorry to hear about that experience but it sounds like you have done well. I was public schooled and fought it the entire time. I always learned so much more reading or with my grandfather than participating in their nonsense. I got the sense in school quickly that the administrative types ultimately will always look at you as a commodity. We homeschool our kids now and I couldn’t imagine doing anything different. Best wishes in your endeavors!
A good portion of our "Formal Schooling" should be scrapped. Most people, even intelligent people. learn by doing things. Most people don't learn by sitting there listening to someone lecture to them or from reading books. People need to apply what they've read in real time. If not then much of it is forgotten.
Proof that the smart ones have to stick it to the man over and over again...We have to stand against the stupidity of the present educational system. I was depressed in high school and almost pulled myself out to homeschool. My parents would have let me, as I did this successfully in 7-8 grade. I was able to make it. Went back to school to become a teacher and it is a wasteland of wasted time and potential.
“The business of convincing parents to pull their kids out of public school” - one of the most important things anyone can do! 👏
You Can do it. There's so many different curriculums and programs. We did Rod and Staff math and English
My now 13 year old, was an angry, bored, nervous, self conscious, full of attitude 12 year old in the school system. I got him out and two weeks later I had my son back, fun, confident, happy, caring kid ❤ so the answer is NO, teenagers are not naturally a pain in the 🍑, their sense of self is just crushed by the school system.
I agree with u, my daughter 13 is extremely artistic and can draw amazingly! When she’s in school, her spirit is gone she is not happy at all.
I completely agree! My teenagers are an absolute pleasure to be around 95% of the time.
Good that you recognized your son’s feeling and took action in his best interest. It’s what a good mom does, regardless of how difficult it may be.
@@iamtasi2583I probably spent about half of my classroom time in high school drawing.... or, thinking up music and lyrics in my head.
Working mothers what’s their option
Don't send your kids to day prison
Damn right.
It’s heartbreaking
@@DadSavesAmericaLook up the strictest teacher in Britain. She has excellent results in her very strict school using opposite measures.
Ha! Day prison, night prison, the whole country is a corporate prison. That’s the business of America.
Prison? Whadda yo mean? A prison is contained, locked, no one goes in without permission and, definitely, no one goes out. Doors are set with alarms. Metal detectors. Bells tell you what to do and when. Lunch is provided on melamine trays after standing in long lines. You go places on a bus. Sometimes you wear uniforms. Wait a minute,...
Public school kid. Who now homeschools 5 kids! I learned phonic when I was 29. I studied and learned each lesson the week before I taught it to my two oldest kids. We never had required reading. But they had been read to every nightly for years and years. Now they are voracious readers who do read novels and even adult, age appropriate literature. The next set of kids learning phonic now. We spread an hour a day on their school. It's amazing how excited and interested in life the oldest two (ages 9 and 10) are still. They are so curious and love to learn. I didn't really know the difference until we had family visit and they had kids the same age. Not a curious or excited bone left in their bodies. The difference was absolutely startling.... So sad but what a testimony.
Exactly!! My homeschooled kids still have that spark of magic. They are still happy 😂 11 and 9 years old
What resources did you use to learn phonics?
@@SquirrellyMom We learned phonics in public schools... Michigan has never been a top performing educational state and I learned what most people are claiming they never learned in public school.
I started off going to catholic school/private school and I lived with my Grandparents. I was thriving. I was learning sign language in kindergarten. Reading at a high school level in elementary school. I was social, playful, and creative. I was apart of ballet and tap. I played viola.
Fast forward to my dad taking me out of private school- I instantly started failing out in public school. My dad punished me for failing by taking away my things and hobbies. I was isolated and had trouble adjusting and I was learning things I knew over and over again at such a snails pace. I got bored. I got into drugs. I stopped paying attention. I dropped out of highschool and started partying. thankfully I cared enough about my potential future to get a GED.
My teachers failed me and they knew everything that was going on with me.
Ive made it to 22- Im homesteading now and succeeding from society and attempting to fix all the damage and loss and educate myself. One day when I have kids, they will have the privilege to go to private school or they will be homeschooled. Dont send your precious babies to these horrible prisons.
Theres repercussions to everything and its so easy to mess up your kids life. Prioritize them when you have them.
PUBLIC SCHOOL IS A DEATH TRAP!
I was homeschooled from 3rd-12th grade and married a public school teacher haha the way she explains the hell of her day sounds like a community center that’s design to keep kids off the street until they’re 18. All pushed through the paper mill to get a HS degree, despite the level of effort the students give.
I pulled my daughter from charter school and started homeschooling after i volunteered in classroom and saw how much time is wasted on correcting students behaviors. We love homeschooling because we get things done quickly and that leaves us with tons of time for enrichments.
I pulled my son after witnessing his class while I kept him at home on extended distant learning. Having a window into his class room was all I needed to see the true problem. That poor teacher. One teacher was so overwhelmed with horrible students that I called the front office and asked if someone would go stand by her door and witness what she is dealing with. I told them I do not at all think it's due to her being incapable...it had everything to do with she was out numbered by horribly behaved students. I watched online as the powers that be walked through that classroom and started pulling kids. I witnessed a drastic improvement in my own child's behavior once he was no longer among that daily. Behavior like that is contagious.
Aren't the charter schools the good ones?
@bruceparker6142 they are better than public school for sure. My older son went to public school and that was terrible.
Thank you so much for inviting me on the show - this was such a fun conversation!
Great discussion! Huge fans 🙌
Just sub to your channel, hope to learn more from you.
Relevant, insightful, and optimistic! Now if I can get my highly compensated adult kids to listen. I have 4 grandchildren (3 yrs and younger) that I hope and pray aren’t placed in “better rated” public schools. Our grandchildren’s creativity is off the scale! As their Papa I love hearing them ask “Why?” and then hearing them proclaim “I have an idea!”
Great play (and learning) time!
@@LashusJourney thank you! I hope you find some of the videos useful :)
This video has liftted a big weight off my shoulders. I feel vindicated in my choice to homeschool. And now I can tell my eighth-grade self that we were right!
I love this. Good luck in your homeschooling journey!
My father, born in Mississippi in 1932, had a 6th grade education and built an entire successful business in the 70's that brought in 6 figures!
That's because most of education is not really education but "formal schooling" or "indoctrination". Most people actually learn by doing something and not just sitting in a classroom for 7 hours a day listening to someone lecture to them. Some students do very well in a school setting (teacher's pet) but fail miserably at being a good productive worker. Those students usually go on to become "educators", professors, politicians, or some other type of profession where they have authority without the merit that comes from being a successful business owner or productive worker. Also, "schooling" provides no means to filter out careers that suit a person's abilities, passion, skill set, etc. So a student that might be smart enough to be an engineer would be better suited to be an electrician. But all this is by design.
Anyway, I could right a book about all the things wrong with our "education" industry.
@@Republitarian-g4h write a book, not right a book. 👍🏼
I taught a little public, and lot private, and now homeschool. My educational philosophy has been flipped upside down. While I had great experiences in private, there were many kids who still fell in the cracks. The worst experience was walking down the hallway while a group of extremely quiet 2nd graders walked single file past me. My big teaching bag bumped one of the children. I said, "Oh! I beg your pardon." She whispered, "That's okay." The teacher yelled, "That's a deMERit! No talking in the HALLway!" I felt sick. I can only imagine how the child felt. Now, my son is blissfully happy to be homeschooled, as he has to deal with the drama his public schooled friends provide daily.
The schools are a reflection of the rest of society. What is our society marked by? Distrust and racial resentment. Granted, this is promoted by the schools themselves as well, so they don't help their case. The system, we are taught, is inherently evil, and thus, must be held in contempt. The result is what we see in Orwell's 1984 where everyone over 30 is scared of children as they are most ready to "turn in" what they view as the gatekeepers of the old way, the bad way. In other words, schools can't afford to tailor to students. The societal malaise and indignation can't allow for catering to individual students.
😱
This made me sad … seriously ?!
I love home schooling and giving children many hours a day to pursue their interests and play. However, it is silly to never direct a child or make them persevere in something they don’t like. Also, parents have an obligation to pass on wisdom to their children and not just leave them to discover everything for themselves, reinventing the wheel. All of us who watched this video just benefited from more “sage on the stage” type education. Yes, creativity and delight in learning are so important, but so are discipline and obedience and the ability to persevere through dull tasks. Don’t forget that the much praised one room school house was a place where students were forced to sit perfectly still and focus, mostly memorizing and following the exact format of the books, not pursuing their own interests
It doesn't sound like they were implying not to have any structure or goals in your homeschool. But homeschool will always lend itself to be more free and individualist. Homeschool will always give children more free time and time for rabbit trails, even if you have a very strict, traditional school day. You don't have the travel time to ans from school, you don't have to worry about homework in the evening 😊
Yesss
Homeschooling is very very hard for a working single parent. I considered it but had no one to care for my kids while I worked during the day. The best I could do was take every penny I earned and put them in a private school.
@@sumerian2when they are in elementary school yes but by middle school the child can be given goals and consequences and expectations. After work guidance to check work or answer questions.
@@Kevin.Grindel this is very good. Homeschooling allows you to set your own schedule too. When I worked we homesched mostly on the weekends and honestly it was at most 3 hours a day. People have to actually be creative and figure things out instead of just saying well it doesn't work for me because xyz. Homeschooling literally gives you the ability to adjust your child's education much more freely than any private or public school will.
Thank God I decided in 2021 to homeschool my 3 beautiful children ♥️ I don’t regret it one bit! Society is good at having parents doubt their ability to even educate their children in academics, all you need to do is pick the program you want to use & patience! Patience is key 🔑
I have two toddlers right now. Is there a specific program you recommend?
We also live in the information age. There are so many creative resources available for learning that I find home educating is easier than ever.
My mother says I was able to hold conversation at 18 months, was counting to 100 in Spanish by 2y (I learned from a neighbor apparently, no one on my family speaks Spanish), could read and write before kindergarten, blah blah, all these things. Yet, I don't remember any of this, I did very well in early elementary school, "gifted", despite various traumas, by 6th grade I was effectively shut down. Conform and get by was the theme until I graduated. I could never put my children through that.
I was a teacher for 30 years and it was brutal to watch the damage being done to kids. I did my best to give my students the opportunities and messages you are speaking about but I felt like my hands were tied most of the time. The system makes it almost impossible. Now I’m retired but my passion to help change the system has not! I feel so happy to have watched this video and to have discovered Hannah! Thanks to her website, I now have some avenues to follow, some people to maybe reach out to so that I can be a part of helping these poor kids (and their parents). I truly feel that parents don’t understand just HOW BAD it is. It’s like processed food …
I agree, most parents don't understand just how bad the system is.
@Seethebestinpeople What you’re doing is great, it would be great if you could point us parents to the platform you decided to help students through.
The interviewer asks excellent questions. Hannah explanations are so eloquent and comprehensive. I love listening to this! 10/10.
I really appreciate that. Thank you!
New homeschooling Mom here, this is so encouraging! Thank you. Confirms all the suspicions I had of the public school system (I taught for 7 years and saw and lived this first hand).
Good luck on your homeschool adventure!
Homeschooling has been amazing for our home. Once I pulled my child out of daycare and decided to homeschool has been game changer. 4 years later we still love it and have an amazing community of homeschoolers ❤
As a dad who homeschools - we love it, and are so thankful for people like you and the work you do.
That's amazing. Good luck on your homeschooling journey!
I am an old man now, so my observation about my public school education is ancient. However, certain themes may remain the same.
The most important failure of public education from my current place in life is its failure to have taught me anything about what being a human being is about. That education was focused on my future as a “human doing” in the world of work: my life as a working man, not my life as a formative member of a living species. I never really knew what I most wanted to do because I never really knew who I was from the inside out!
The second biggest failure of my public school education was its lack of grounding in the rigors of a “classical education,” so-called. Teachers were largely empathic women (not a criticism), and too infrequently demanding men (not high praise), thus my introduction to higher achievement based on the rigorous demands of the workplace was inept!
Miserable years. I remember thinking during graduation "what did I learn that's useful?"
same. but at least I learned how evil ppl can be. took me longer to accept the endless stupidity of so many humans 🤕
I learned how to type (laptop), home economics (cooking) (bath reading, writing, math skills). Other than that I could have dropped out after 8th grade and been fine....
@steve19811 I agree. Similar to me. I also learned to type and how to sew in school...all that in the 8th grade which was the worse year since we didn't have a math or science teacher for a whole year. 🙃 after that,.pointless.
Most people learn by doing things. It can help to learn how to read, write, arithmetic, etc. . the basics. But at the end of the day if a kid isn't applying what they've learned or are not that interested in the subject it just a lot of wasted time.
It’s so nice to read that parents homeschool their children. We don’t all have the same support.
I was raised by a single mom with a third grade education in Mexico. She struggled to raise two children and was verbally and physically abusive.
To me public school was a somewhat “safe” place where I could eat and meet other people. Some teachers were nice and yes I did learn. My brother got a scholarship and he loved school. He went to become a computer programmer. I had kids and got married. But by God’s mercy and grace, I was as able to go back to school and I became a teacher. I work at a title one school with similar demographics as the one I went to.
I love my job. I understand the system is a mess, but I do my best to love on my students and teach them not only school but life. I truly believe that God has placed me in the classroom and I understand the responsibility that I have for those children. I pray for them and I feel blessed to be their teacher.
Well
Thank you for your service 😊
They sound blessed to have you! Not everyone can homeschool. We need great teachers like you on the inside, too.
@@BePatientFriend88 that’s very kind. Thank you
*_Another EVIL in Education_* took me quite by surprise. Andrew Huberman discussed how children would naturally do things they enjoyed, but when they got gold stars for doing the same things, they stopped doing them. And the reason is quite startling. The kids were becoming spoiled by *_post-activity rewards._* They were learning that a reward comes after the activity, rather than merely *_enjoying the activity_* which was itself the reward. This has major implications on self-discipline, procrastination, etc.
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This is why the marshmallow test is stupid as well.
It's great if you're going for the establishment of productivity in an industrial sense.
@@TranslatedAssumption As opposed to productivity in what?... the sense of getting a Round Tuit, slovenly relaxation?
Good knowledge leads to Wisdom, including *_Better Choices._*
If someone is *_stupid,_* their choices are not as likely to be good ones.
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Uncle Huberman is a treasure. Although AG1 ist sh¡t... 😂
@TranslatedAssumption how does demotivating people improve productivity?
The decline began when language arts, music, art were removed.
How to improve:
Bring back these (and add new)
1. Scriptive handwriting
2. Art
3. Music
4. Creative writing
5. Home Economics
6. Finance
7. Social ethics and etiquette
8. Critical thinking
These must be installed and reinstalled and help the parents understand the concepts therein. But the school unfortunately can not do it alone. The parents are (and still are) the front line of it all. It's an uphill battle but it can be done...
I’m in my 40’s and my dad attended a one-room school house for elementary school in a very rural community. My grandpas both only had an 8th grade education. So there are sections of the country that do have a tie to a time gone by. I am now homeschooling my kids.
bless you.
FYI, I’m super anti public school, but measuring at 8th grade is considered to be a fluent reading and literacy level. There’s other better data driven ways to criticize the performance of the school system than using this specific talking point.
I'm in my 30s, and there were one-room schools attached to the inner-city universities I attended as a trainee teacher. We were all very keen to do a teaching practicum in those schools, but of course places were very limited.
Rural Australia still has one-room schools, where several friends and fellow graduates taught.
I went on to teach in a small Catholic school with composite classrooms (two grades in each class); and there were composite classrooms in the large suburban primary school I attended as a child. None of those situations was considered 'weird'.
I'm 41 and my mom and dad were both educated in one room schools. They learned Latin in grade school. My Mom then taught school at 18 in one room schools. We ❤ homeschooling!!
My grandfather didn’t finish middle school yet he was smart and more literate than most of the phd students at the prestige university I work at! No lie.
I can imagine a foster home situation on a hobby farm with a micro-school where kids learn to create and build together in contact with nature. It could be transformative for kids thrown from bad situation to bad situation in cityscapes.
Great idea. Do it!
That sounds awesome.
You can apply the learning for school credit.
There are so many paths for children. Do what’s best for you. Many parents don’t have the resources and must rely on the public school system.
One of the things I realized half a century ago, a few years *_after_* graduating in the top 10% of my high school class, in the 3rd highest rated school district in the country at the time: *_The educational system sucks!_* For one thing, the system caters to the needs of the faculty and NOT the students. And though I never experienced failing an entire year, the thought of that kind of tragedy terrified me -- losing a huge percentage of my life on a wasted year. Such tragedies could be prevented if schools, instead, cater to the needs of the STUDENT. Educate at the individual's pace. Teach to *_understanding and application,_* not mere rote memorization.
*_ALMOST FAILED FIRST GRADE_*
But I almost did fail first grade, if it had not been for the heroic efforts of my first grade teacher in Klamath Falls, Oregon. For some strange reason, I had a difficult time learning the alphabet, and learning to read. Math was easy. But my top 1% IQ of 139 did NOT help me overcome my reading difficulty. *_Personal, one-on-one tutoring by the teacher, after class_* is what it took to get me over that hurdle. Years later, after I published my first novel (co-authored with John "Dalmas" Jones), I sent her a copy with my heartfelt thanks.
In the 1990s, I decided to go back to school, studying computer science, finally earning a degree summa cum laude in 2004. I worked a few years as a software engineer, and then moved to the Philippines, where I married the love of my life.
*_MORE FLAWS IN EDUCATION_*
In 2015, I had the good fortune to teach for a couple of semesters. What troubled me was that so many of the non-business students were horrible at math. The method I used on the board confused some of them.
"Sir, that's not the way we learned to do it."
And what this simple proclamation told me was that they had *_Lousy Teachers_* who ALSO did not know the reasons why for each of the steps they taught. They taught by rote memorization, instead of to understanding. And this was why they had such a difficult time doing word problems. Nature never gives its details in the form of the rote, step-by-step methods taught by unthinking, *_incompetent_* teachers. And those poor teachers were likely taught by the same, unthinking methods.
*_PATTERNS OF EXCELLENCE_*
While working on a client's book, recently, I learned of the *_Hungarian Genius Schools._* With only half the population of Germany, Hungary produced just as many Nobel Prize-winning scientists. This is because they did NOT learn by rote, but had to be capable of developing the Pythagorean Theorem on their own, and other Jewels of Science and Logic.
I've had both kinds of careers -- creative and logical. I was a Hollywood Artist with screen credit and one-man shows of my art. And I was a Software Engineer, working for several major corporations, and creating my own 3D astronomy software, *_Stars in the NeighborHood._*
I have a unique perspective on the need to nurture BOTH creativity and critical thinking. And I pray that God will give me time to make good use of the talents He gave me, toward that end.
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Thank you for sharing all of this. All of these topics need to be discussed with parents so they can make educated decisions.
@@Famr4evr Couldn't agree *_more!_* Exactly! But we all need to be educated how one group of people have been poisoning our educational system for well over a century.
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@@RodMartinJrwhat group? An ethnic group? A religious group? An ideological group?
I went to that sort of school system. I think our high school was like number two in our state and probably in the top 30 or 50 in the country. And you know what, it did standard education very well - FWIW. Our k-12 and high schools were affluent, so could draw the best teachers and have things like Great Books and gifted programs, and top notch athletic programs to keep non- academically inclined students engage enough to keep coming and at least, not fail their classes!
We also have vocational and programs whose graduates have probably far out earned many of us college degreed.
Even as a kid, I wasn't that excited about studying what they told me to study. I had my own self-directed study program. Including the Bible, ancient history ( I don't think any of my friends were reading, for instance, The Decline and Fall of Rome at 11), the paranormal, consciousness and human potential, drawing, and music. ( school did help me out a lot with the music basics and some theory -- but most of what I know about chord theory, I've taught myself . Also,, I learned drawing from people like Charles and Schultz and Betty Edwards.)
Even back in High school, the late 80s, I read books like "Superlearning" (Ostrander et al) and even some of the original books on NLP, that made me aware that what we called education -- even in our great school district -- was really the slow lane. Yes, we were faster than a lot of the other school systems, but that just meant we were the fastest turtle.
@@nunnayabiz7911 "What group?" Can you clarify? To which sentence are you referring?
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If parents feel that they can't homeschool or are not qualified then the education system has failed you.
Defective Gen Z here that went through public school. I want a kids, I want a family, and I want to improve the future. I don't see public school helping the next generation so I'm planning on home schooling and willing to make that sacrifice. I have friends who are around my age who agree with this and have also gone through public school. All hope is not lost.
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This is so validating as I have to constantly explain to parents why I want to spend more time with my child as well as give them the opportunity to learn the way they want to, and have the freedom to be creative all the time.
I'm an elementary art teacher by trade, and now direction curriculum for an after school program. This converschanged my approach completely. Student-driven seems to be the new chapter if we want creative thinkers and not industrial brain meats. 🤔 I love this. It's so challenging to norms in educational models, and I flipping love it. Thanks Dad and Hannah.
This is my favorite this ever. I would love to hear more about how this has impacted you. Email me at contact@dadsavesamerica.com and let’s hop on a zoom call!
Pulled my kids out and am having them do homeschooling they are loving it. 2.5-3h a day when they choose. They sometimes do weekends as well to get done early. As for my younger one, was behind by 2 years. The school was placing my child of to the side. She is learning faster in the 3 hrs than she learned in a month! Why wouldn’t a parent want to know what there kid is learning!
I really love this conversation . I don't think it will work for the masses. I am creative. I sent my child to school so they could learn academics. After-school she chose piano, cross country, dance and song writing. She was able to maneuver in college and the entrepreneur world. ITS NOT EITHER OR WE NEED TO FIND PRACTICAL WAYS TO INTORGRATE THE LEARNING MODEL
All parents do not home school well. When students came to school from homeschooling , most children did very poorly.
Some home schoolers do great some home schoolers seem so lost academically when they return to school.
I have no idea how I found this video or what possessed me to click it but boy am I glad I did😅 great vid
The public school system ejected me at 15yrs old and it changed my life dramatically for the better almost immediately.
4 years later I got trapped by higher education and couldn't understand why those adults were selling me BS?
Carry a candle in the dark, BE a candle in the dark, know that you are a flame in the dark.
Deschooling society 1971 by Ivan Dominic Illich
Maybe "education" or "formal schooling" was designed to dumb down the masses.
As a public school teacher I agree with most of this discussion, I know the problem with system. There were some comments I disagree with - the killing of questioning for example. Teachers cannot answer all questions and students need to focus questions on the topic being explored. Killing of the interest in a subject may just be changing interests which emerge over time. A few contradictions - that students only need to master 60 to 70% to move on, and then praising model where students can decide not to study a specific subject. Difference? The problem there is who know what a student may need to know three years from now. So knowledge needs to be based on previous learning acquired years earlier. The online learning model proved inefficient during covid, but largeply due to the reduced expectations and requirements due to the public model of teaching to the lowest denominator. The model is possible but needs tough standards and expectations. Public education needs some revisions - first closing all the colleges of education ans requiring all professors of education to regularly take on a full teaching load in the subject and grade level they claim to be an expert in. They are too detached from the reality of the classroom and too into theory. That is the greatest harm to education.
The difference is that, if you only know 60 or 70% and move on, in a structured, step-by-step system, you will not be able to accomplish the next steps. If you learn what you’re interested in and move on, you can come back and fill in the gaps, if your interest is renewed. Public school just keeps you marching forward down the linear path to shallow ‘success’.
Public school needs to go. Government never does it better.
@@Individual_Lives_Matter - a difference yes, but of one can always go back and learn the material when needed, it applies under both systems.
Serious question, do teachers ever explain to their students how to look up an answer to the question? Know why books are so valuable in this case? It's because books can provide a clear, concise answer to the question being asked without the frills of some hidden agenda.
@@mht5875 - yes, teachers want students to go into the text, that is a skill that needs to be worked on. In terms of an agenda, sadly often the assigned text may have an agenda. There is no such thing as an unbiased source, and we need to teach students to recognize that and also introduce them to conflicting interpretations. I teach History and Social Science, some textbooks are more balanced than others. Some are way too the Left. I saw on text for a course, I am unsure which one, "Why We Have to be Feminists". We are now finally offering a course on economics, I would love to see that text. Luckily, a course on Race, Class and Gender was shot down. I saw the textbook and expressed my concerns - where are the counter arguments. (I would recommend reading "Cyncial Theories"!)
My newborn woke up in the middle of the night and I started watching this.
Now they’re finally back asleep and it’s time for me to head to work.
I’m a first year teacher. 😂🤯
It's a sign! 💥❤️
This was exactly what I needed! Thank you!
Public schooled myself. Graduated 2002. Went to university, graduated with 4 year degree. Commissioned into the Navy. We had 3 kids while my husband and I served. Missed them so much that we discussed homeschooling, but put my son in Kindergarten. Didn’t agree with the 7 hours, with homework, little recess for 5 & 6 year olds. This was a charter school on an island too… discussed putting him in first grade there and our second child in kindergarten. Two weeks before school started the Mission Statement of the school changed from “exploring and discovering truth..” to “ improving test scores and aptitude tests..” I realized then that the measurement of what the state required wasn’t best. Don’t co-parent with the government! Been homeschooling for 12 years. Cannot tell you how great their accomplishments and personal successes are! Holding conversations with adults, passion for their foci, and compassion for others. Highly socialized! Yes, they have gaps, we all do.
If you’re think about it, do it! It won’t look like the public school because it isn’t!
We resigned honorably from the military as it was changing too.
Thanks so much for this enlightenment! I had taught in a school for 27 years but when I had my set of triplets, I decided to begin homeschooling my children. Listening to this podcast has given me great insights and more enthusiasm about our homeschooling. God bless you and keep up the good work.
I am from Canada. I just wanted to share an experience I had in Grade 8 in the late 80s leading up to going to high school. I was interested in school and tried pretty hard. At that level, if you completed all you course work, you were rewarded with extra work that was creative and not graded. This was something I found fun. This was a French school, and though my family is bilingual, my mother tongue was English. The French teacher was very strict and for a sensitive kid like me, rather scary. She was a very good teacher in one way because the subject was drilled into you. Anyway, one time, the extra work I picked out was to write a story. This was in french, of course. I worked hard on it and used all the information she taught the class about grammar. I had use of a dictionary and tried super hard. I was proud of it, but mostly, I enjoyed it. I handed it in, and the following day, she read it in front of the class and accused me of plagiarism. I stormed out. In the following years in high school, I didn't try in french class. I did rather poorly. I don't know if this had an impact on my grades or if I was distracted. I am angry about it still, even though I obviously should let it go.
The schools here now that I have kids spend so much time on discipline (unless a child is in IB) from the sounds of it. Group work seems to be the model even though I think independent work is equally or more important.
Very interesting guest. I spent a little time with a homeschooled kid helping him get into art school. He's a good kid but wasn't very good at taking advice. Always on the defensive. He did get into the art school, but I hope he learns to take some advice without arguing. It's so important to be open to commentary. I wonder if this is why he ended up being homeschooled in the first place. Really great kid. I hope he does well in film.
I had something similar happen to me in college. Prof accused me of cheating which I never did and it really shook me so much that it still my stomach flip recalling it now. Teachers have a lot of power over young minds.
The relief on my sons face when i told him we would be actively learning through homeschooling through his next 4 years of high school was the sign i needed that i was doing the right thing for him. We dont even follow ĝrade level curriculums. He tells me what he is interested in and we go with it. Or we pick a subject and ask a questuon. I live in Idaho where homeschooling laws are super lax. I am so happy that my kid is excited about learning again.
Grades are probably trending up because teachers are being encouraged to change grades by their administration. I'm saying this as a former public school teacher.
Might also be because it is egregiously immoral to hand out failing grades for subjective feelings.
That’s exactly what’s happening. You are indirectly coheres to out right lie or “curve” grades. Or grade base on “completion”. The amount of assignments given to teachers it’s insane. 🤯
The WOKE DEI activists are pushing the elimination of standardized testing for college acceptance. Grades are being downplayed as a metric.
Ms Frankman's passion on this issue made this topic fascinating. Normally, I can't get through a 2-hour interview, but this was absolutely engaging.
I’m so glad you enjoyed ❤
This is the most balanced and helpful evaluation of the current state of education that I have heard to date.
This is the first I've heard from Hannah and Renegade Educator. Can't wait to learn more.
I've raised 2 families of kids, taught graphic arts in a juvenile correctional facility, and spent many years as a church youth leader. This has allowed 50 years of observation in what works and what doesn't. Based on my experience, she is expressing the best path forward.
Wow!
Thank you, Dad Saves America, for pursuing this.
She’s interesting because she is aware of so many different programs but she ought to address the conditions needed for participating in these non-public schools, like tuition!
Very good discussion and nice to know people are thinking about alternatives.
I work as a teacher aid and taught overseas. You constantly see people blame the teachers, but I don't think most of it is their fault. Some teachers are bitter but in general, they follow guidelines and 20-30 kids to teach. Usually half of the class is spent on dealing with behavior from 2-4 problem students which then the parent sides with their kid not thinking anything is wrong on their end. I don't really have a a solution but I do think people are quick to blame teachers.
She is right about everything. I attended public school and in 7th grade, I had a teacher that didn’t actually teach so we cheated because he was never in the room. We passed, and then 8th grade came and we were all behind. We continued to be behind throughout high school and never caught up because we never had the chance to. I still struggle with math! Also, I was bullied so harshly that I tried to take my life twice during my high school years. It’s not worth it! My dad had a baby a few years ago around the same time I had my first child and he realizes now that he should’ve listened to my grandmother and pulled me out. Now he wants to home school his youngest. I’m homeschooling both of my children.
Homeschooling allows your child to think autonomously. You get to really know your child through all the stages of their life and connect with them. It's wholistic parenting!
First time coming across this guy... really felt his passion and emotion at 2:03:45- 2:05:40... Priority. "I'm not going to turn my kids over to a broken and corrupt system" Wow... Most powerful, and mist true.
I was a public teacher turned homeschool mom and struggle with this internal battle of how best to educate my kids partly because i was education through the public schools and taught there.
My university had us observing classrooms early on in our program but student taught at the very end to put into practice what we had been taught.
Also, my son would never choose to want to learn math, but i still push him to learn it because i love him and know there are certainly basics of math he needs to know. Having the real life opportunities for him to use the math and is a wonderful blessing in homeschool (like making it on time to a movie he wants to see at the theater, requires a lot of clock skills) even using money to buy the movie ticket etc, of which i have him do.
But we have switched math curricula 3 times in order to find a better (not perfect) fit. One that has more application and games.
Will i make him do math all the way through senior year into calculus etc? Not if he doesnt want to or realize the need for it for what he seeks to do for a career. But i think it should be noted that especially the basics of the 3Rs are important to require our kids to learn to build a foundation as a jumping off point for them to be interested in learning and have the ability to follow their interests (example: ability to read books about their interests). We also must train them in logic and critical thinking skills to be able to evaluate if what information they are taking in is true.
I struggle with my younger kids not wanting to learn even the basics let alone have time for all the other things they are interested in.
I have a hard time seeing what child-led really looks like.
I also have a hard time with going against the "bell-system" as that is often how i can motivate my kids to work their hardest knowing that when the timer rings they can move on to something else. In some jobs/careers we fo have to switch rapidly from 1 task to another and cant just stay hyper focused on 1 thing. But i also see how the bells and timers can go overboard.
Anyways thanks for this information. Any feedback on these thoughts would be helpful as im trying to break out of the public school model even at home but also guide my kids into loving and being interested in learning and following their interests.
This was such an enjoyable discussion. No judgement, just talk of options about what works and doesn’t. It is important for us as citizens to actually look at results and make good decisions for our families.
Hannah mentioned that majority of the kids from the Sudbury academy ended up pursuing music and arts. Without the adult supervision and adults who can teach math sciences, the kids will tend to choose what is easy and fun. They are not gonna learn hard and dry/boring content like math and science on their own. That’s just human nature. Majority of kids aren’t gonna learn to become experts without an insight a teacher who is an expert at the subject they teach. A teacher can show nuances of various concepts that may not be written or highlighted in any text.
I have been saying all this time. The school system is designed to train and prepared all those kids to be the next future workers for the corporation industry. Just look at the school system set up. 1. They make the kids get used to be up early as 5 or 6am for 5 days a week( just like a job), 2. Make the kids learn to follow, obey and dont talk back at the teachers( just like a job with your boss). 3. Make the kids overschooled by have them sit in a classroom for 8 plus hours daily( like a job)..... Everything about the school system is literally preparing you to what it means to work without passion, curiousity, and freedom to do so.
Coming from a "hermit", the social component of public school education is essential.
Gatto is a must-read. I recommend his little collection of essays *Dumbing Us Down* to every parent I know, because it rarely occurs to anyone to question our public education system on the most fundamental level. People think that system can or should be changed in some vague way. (In much the same sense, people think that our political system would benefit from these unspecified changes. Tweaks, in other words - cosmetic changes. No one ever says, "Hey, maybe we should just retire the whole thing and start from scratch. It's beyond repair.")
I agree that the public schools need to be reformed. But this interview sounds like we are putting all of the child hopes and dreams on the public schools. What are the parents roles in raising this child, what is the churches role in raising this child, and what is the true communities role in helping raise this child. it’s not just the public schools. We lay too much on them.
Strongly discerning homeschooling. Love what I’m hearing!
My sister is homeschooling both her kids and loves it. We grew up thinking it was weirdo nonsense. Now the real weirdo stuff is in traditional school.
Been homeschooling my kids (3 now) for 12 years. It has been an amazing experience.
I noticed US teachers in elementary schools do not know math yet they “teach” it but they can’t do it in an absorbing way, kids are bored and not taken away by it, and that is a crime! Math is fascinating and it’s on every corner of our material world, no one shows kids that material world is fractal for example, anything that is beautiful has golden ratio within and so on…
Absolutely agree! I taught in a public elementary school and I can confidently say that most of the teachers did not know how to teach math and likely couldn't have passed a math GED test...
THIS explains SOOOO much about my mental health struggles.
I’m an older millennial, went to public school my whole life. I hated it. Especially middle school. I was not good at math and there weren’t resources like there are today. My parents couldn’t help me with anything past elementary school curriculum.
Unfortunately, “alternative” schooling like Montessori and Waldorf type schools are for the elites. They don’t cater to low income communities which makes me wonder…..
The only experience I have is my own from 50 years ago. I found that large groups of children tend to be vicious to each other. I was not bullied but I saw many others being bullied. I also was not and never have been a morning person. I learn NOTHING in the morning. Schools start too early which I assume is to be convenient for the parents work. When I was in 4th and 5fh grade to school was so overcrowded that we went to school in two shifts. In fourth grade I was in school from 12:00 to 6:00 and when I was in fifth grade I was in class from 6:00am to 12:00. I can clearly remember 4th grade and 5th grade is a hazy blur and I'm sure I learned nothing.
The public schooling system is based on the Prussian model of schooling, which was designed for the needs of the 19th century industrial revolution in mind. It was designed to turn children into obedient drones, the perfect mill and factory workers! Prussia was an absolute monarchy at the time and when they invented modern government run compulsory schooling, Prussia had just suffered a crushing defeat by Napoleon's French army.
However, because far fewer jobs in the developed world are these repetitive factory jobs, there's no longer a need for the old mode of education.
To bad our government doesn’t know this and parents aren’t protesting for changing and demanding anything from the school system.
The pandemic finally woke me up to a lot of things. Protect your children.
When I was in 2nd grade, we were going over the difference between reptiles and mammals. I remember being confused by birds and how they fit in in the two categories, so I raised my hand to ask and my teacher literally scoffed at the question and just said “they’re brids” and the other kids laughed at me. I don’t think I raised my hand in a class again. I get kingdoms and phylum’s are a bit heavy to get in to but dang Mrs. Sikes.
I went to Benson polytechnic highschool PDX. Made me the Man I am today. Not all public Schools are the same. My children go to a Hawaiian public charter school... They learn the value of the earth and Hawaiian culture dance and chanting.
I decided to homeschool because of the time factor. 8-9 hours per weekday counting all the logistics. I didn’t have enough time to play that character foundation. The first hour after school my kids spent letting their guard down from following rules and fitting in with peers ALL.DAY.LONG.
I went to private school and still got passed to the next grade without knowing division
Aside from the conversation, the video production is TOP-TIER!!!
My kids ask tons of questions and they are all homeschooled
She's WONDERFUL! Wow! She has such great understanding of education and of children.
1:36:40 I wish I had gone to a school where I had been treated like that! That's what I wanted. To learn about what I was interested in, and have help when I needed it, but otherwise to be left alone. Then it wouldn't have felt like prison to me.
The way we "educate" children amounts to nothing but child mistreatment and crushing of human potential and creative spark.
Many parents desire personalized attention and assessment for their children, recognizing their unique needs, strengths, and challenges. However, the current educational system often emphasizes uniformity, with grading standards applied collectively across all students, which may not fully address individual differences. This mismatch can lead to dissatisfaction among parents who feel that their child’s specific circumstances or abilities are not adequately considered within the broader system.
"Self-directed education."
What Ms. Frankman is doing, and needs to do as some scale, is implement this approach for a large swath of students, especially the ones I teach (urban, colored, middle class-poor), and show scientifically this approach improves learning outcomes.
A couple questions:
1. How can you be middle-class poor. Aren't you either poor or middle classed?
2. Could it be better that these underaged poor actually be working to make ends meet, rather than being schooled?
I think parental freedom is important, but children need freedom too. Frankman seems to think that all parents share this common goodwill towards their children, but I think there are a lot of children who would rather be truants and parents that are happy with that.
But our society has rejected indigent youth. So instead, we have chained them to their neglectful parents for years.
@@Oatriumph The term I prefer is 'working-class': you pay bills, have food, clothing, shelter, but a sudden crisis (car repair, health emergency, etc.), would cause problems.
Teacher here. So true. Figured this out early in my career.
Thank you very much for your knowledge and experience. Hope you continue spreading your message.
This woman is wonderful, and her initiative is LONG overdue! I started public school in 1968 and other than sheepishly interacting with other kids, hated every soul crushing minute of it. I was good at writing and visual art, until they sucked the enthusiasm away. I kept my love for music in spite of them. I took an I.Q. test and scored a 148. Back then they didn't have "special" classes, which was probably a blessing. I hated sending my kids to school. Watching them enjoy their living and learning in the Summers, and hating going back to school should be a clue for parents. These schools have sucked for a long time. If I had my way, compulsory schooling would be cured by realtors and auctioneers selling everything and giving it back to the taxpayers. We live in the information age. Self directed or loosely directed learning should be easier than picking up and dropping off your kids at school. And the retention of the $550 property tax collected from us (monthly!) would go a long ways toward keeping mom or dad home!
Her mentality only works for upper class families in a developed country. I LIVE IN A THIRD WORLD COUNTRY and trust me we have to be imaginative just to even eat, we learn really early in life that there are people that inherit the world and others that have to work in it and that's fine because that's the cycle of life and the delicate balance of nature. The education system helps us understand the society we live in and fail at it so we can do it right when we grow up so in a third world country education is more of a moral journey so we can make our society better.
Where do you live? A friend of mine, James Tooley, studied how some of the poorest communities in the world are sending their kids in large numbers (often a majority of the community) to small private schools even with a “free” government option. The books is called The Beautiful Tree.
@@DadSavesAmerica I was raised in Massachusetts USA but I live in Dominican Republic my home country, I teach ELA in a private international middle school. I really want to help my students, country and society, so please keep making these videos, thanks. Yes it's true poorer countries have to send them to private schools for numerous reasons, mainly for moral and ethic reasons.
Yes, testing: A tool of the system not at the benefit of the student...not a lifelong benefit, yet it affects their self perception for a lifetime. Nor does it promote their strength n talents.
Your discussion on creative writing reminds me of a great experience I had as a substitute teacher. The kids had finished their busy work, and it was near a holiday so it was kind of crazy anyway. So I had some kids coming up and asking me what they could do.
They had writing projects they were working on, and some kids had finished. So I told him to write me a story and tell me it when he finished (it was 3rd grade).
He said "what should I write about?"
"Well what kind of stuff do you like right now?"
"I like dinosaurs and ninjas"
"Awesome! Write me a story about ninjas fighting dinosaurs!"
By the end of the day he had a full story and a map and a drawing of the dinosaur (which now was a dragon) to show me. I still have the map he gave me.
My daughter had that gnome book! I remember her coming to me and declaring, "I think gnomes are real" in a tone that sounded like she had insider information about the Kennedy assassination. She was a terrifically fun kid.
46:50 “….after graduation….” How and where did she graduate from if she was homeschooled and skipped collrge???
School is where children learn to cope with prison, then they graduate & many end up in prison. They do end of year/semester tests to see how many more prisons they need to build.
I was done in grade 8. Even as a child I could tell I was being taught by the bottom 10% of humanity. By the time I was in grade 7 I was reading Kofka and looking around me with my jaw hanging open at the mirror it was providing to the workings of my school. Canadian schools are basically garbage from top to bottom
39:00 When she said an adult doesn’t look at a cardboard box and see a castle, I thought, uh…. Well I do! -homeschooling mom and artist
They don't even see their own houses as castles.
I see a cat toy
I’m truly convinced that the “point” or at least the main reason for public school is to keep teachers employed.
Hannah, "kids are passing with 70% proficiency in ( insert subject matter) meaning they're 30% deficient. You wouldn't construct the next floor of a building, only 70% done." Also, Hannah, "falling behind is not worrisome. Kids learning to read at 8 yo vs 5 is not a big deal. They will catch up." Sounds like she is now arguing for starting the building on the 4th floor.
No. It means you can start at the first floor but if you help that kid enough, he will get to the 10th floor on time with the kid that started at the 4th.
We unschooled ours..... 20 and 16 now. Never regretted it.
I didn't lean to read or do math Until middle school because that's when my mom pulled me out of my public Grade school. And now I'm doing college online and heading off in the spring
Hannah's approach to learning writing is exactly the approach I had in my mind! Will be contacting Hannah!
Gatto was not even a historian by trade, but wrote probably one of the most important histories of the United States of America, disguised as a history of American education.
Far more than homeschooling, school choice (including
homeschooling) is absolutely necessary.
Unfortunately, it's impossible for many families to properly
educate children themselves.
Yeah, I get this. So many parents just working to keep families fed.
"learning for the task not the test" 🤯that was the story of my life in middle/high school. I recall enjoying school up to the 6 grade but something happened after that and everything went down hill. By the time I finished my sophomore year I was over it and my mom thankfully agreed to pull me out and I homeschool my last year. I had enough "credits" so I only needed 1 more year. I now look back and see school did not nurture creativity in me. I never considered myself creative but now that I've left the 9-5 rat race school trained me for my creativity is flourishing and I'm excited to be learning again. I said if I ever had kids I'd homeschool.
Same with driving a car, most of what you learn
You learn once you're driving on your own with nobody to instruct you
I was on a plane one time sitting next to a woman who went on and on and on about how proud and educated her adult kids were doing academically. She was very vested in them being successful or perceived to be successful for her own ego. When she asked me what I do, I told her I've been retired for 15 years. That blew her mind because that would make me retired at around 40. No I was not retired in the sense at most think. I was flying to a job site and she did remember me saying something. When we first started about that. She could not understand how I could be retired. So I played the part for a while and that's when I realized that retirement for a lot of people trumps education.
Its definitely not a privilege. My husband and I toggle work schedules to do this. We have the old house, the old paid off car, and I cook every day at home to make this work. The sacrifices are huge. But soooo worth it. I used to teach public school. My husband works as a night custodian at a high school. We've seen the dark underbelly of public school. I lost my oldest daughter to suicide from constant bullying and social pressure and a teacher who overwhelmed the students with homework. Now we have a 4 year old. No way in hell will I send her precious soul into the meat grinder of government education. The peace of mind is worth every bit of the struggle.
I’m so sorry for your loss. It is a war zone for kids out there. I’m so sorry you lost your daughter. Standing with you in sympathy. 💐
@@tedtalksrock thank you ❤️
Very interesting video. I'd be curious of their input on the social awkwardness kids face being in such different school systems from the majority of their peers. Also, montessori school sounds great. Buy what happens when you 'finish' in middle school & the program is over? I feel any other school option to continue would be a jarring difference.
My 21 year-old son told us many times ( he is now a very successful youtuber- makes more money than I do - lol ) that he learned everything valuable on his own and virtually nothing from public school... the only thing he got from public school he says - is to develop a tough thick skin and also a helpful contrast to what he believes and thinks..... (the opposite of what he got at public school...)