This panel can put out close to 100 watts th-cam.com/users/postUgkxOqI2yqX0XVrhR2BMJciTWrHJpG8FhJyg when positioned in the appropriate southernly direction, tilted to the optimal angle for your latitude/date, and connected to a higher capacity device than a 500. The built in kickstand angle is a fixed at 50 degrees. Up to 20% more power can be output by selecting the actual date and latitude optimal angle.The 500 will only input 3.5A maximum at 18 volts for 63 watts. Some of the excess power from the panel can be fed into a USB battery bank, charged directly from the panel while also charging a 500. This will allow you to harvest as much as 63 + 15 = 78 watts.If this panel is used to charge a larger device, such as the power station, then its full output potential can be realized.
I signed up for solar. They made it sound its the future and not to fall behind after my neighbors. Once i signed up, the next step was the contractor to get a permit to work on my house. While that was going on, i sat on my elect bills and review what i was told vs what i have now. I concluded, solar is no go. My solar payment wouldve been $185 a month for 16 years. My electric bill is typically $-45 to $85 a month (yes thats a negative on the 45). I decided to cancel, so i quickly called the company and told them to cancel everything before they do the first step of the work. The area manager quickly called me to save the sale. I declined and told him its not worth it for me as my bill rarely hits above $50 because i live alone in my home. He was so mad on not taking the bait to keep the contract. With that attitude, im glad i canceled and will not buy any solar in my lifetime.
I hope you can reconsider a lifetime ban. I know I'll never go with any contracts that are complex or difficult to understand. If a salesman is involved, the deal is probably a no-go right out of the gate. But small scale projects can be educational and useful. For example, you might have an outdoor freezer (garage style use) and want that to go solar, completely independent of the grid. Or something else. You can search TH-cam for Will Prowse to learn anything and everything about DIY solar. He started with meeting RV power needs, and went up from there. It really can be cost effective, after you take out salesmen, installers, and any other middlemen. It also helps to learn how to buy it cheaply. I paid 25 cents per watt several years ago, and the going rate was about 4x that (I'm talking about just the panels). I got inverters and charge controllers for about half the market rate, and it's name brand stuff, too. The battery bank is great, and also half the market rate. In total, my system is 66 KW peak in, 24 KWH of storage (3 days of my average needs), and 12 KW peak out (120/240 VAC).
It's nice to see someone who has done their homework. I am an engineer and I have investigated the solar industry and whether it makes sense for my personal home. For me the only system that makes any sense for anyone is to have panels in your backyard on posts that follow the sun all year. It maxes output and puts the system in a place where you can easily maintain it. I have yet to find a solar dealer who will do it. They can't make the same income from you so they won't do it. The entire industry is about max profits.
You are absolutely right about the proffits, and that is the biggest problem in solar these days. I had an uncle that was an electrical engineer, he died about 8 month before I thought about moving off grid. I sure wished i COULD HAVE PICKED HIS MIOND WHEN I started looking into solar for our power as there is nothing else out here other than bare acreage, and critters. But it sure is peaceful and of course quiet.
You are absolutely right. I am surprised he said he was an engineer and investigated costs. You get so very little extra power by tracking because the sun's intensity is not that much at the margins - mornings and evenings. @@newsgeekus1216
You don’t sound like engineer you’re making too many never statements or even using the word never. I live in Phoenix I have solar in my house it’s on the roof they cannot move and I have had one $35 electric bill since I put them on. I purchased them I need a 10 year loan with a payment at $143 a month. After 10 years zero payment and the cost of electricity was averaging 180 a month and that was keeping the temperature pretty high like 78 now that I have solar I run the AC at 75 to 76 all day, long and at night, I produce more power that I can use. I did not get a battery just because they were so expensive but APS does pay me for the overage, although not very much but it’s enough to cover all my usage at night. So again I lowered my bill about $40 a month and then six more years or less because I’ll probably pay it off early. I’ll have no bill so I’m protected against APS cost increases as well and works for me.
@@Riorozen no my monthly payment on the solar system is 139 on a 10 year loan. But that wiped out my electric bill totally. I’m happy to talk to you on the phone if u want more information. I used Tesla. $100 down. Total cost $19000 for 29 panels. Some time in the first two years they offer you to make a principle reduction of $4900. If I don’t your payment will be about $200 a month.
Simple: The lease is a fleece. Pay cash and know how to calculate a ROI on your own. Otherwise skip it. Also, Don't go solar unless you've exhausted all energy efficiency investments first.
LED bulbs, Insulation, Storm Windows. Then consider solar. And really you do not need a huge system. You just need a big enough system to run a 5000 BTU unit during the day. That's about $6,000 these days and expected to be $4,000 by 2025. This shaves off a *lot* of AC by your central AC. My central AC only runs 3 hours a day in 100 degree temperature. My electric bill is $50ish 8 months a year and $100, $125, $175, $125 in june, july, august. You do not have to be grid tied for a system like this. And you can use it to keep up your laptop and cable modem. I own an even smaller system that runs my 5000 btu unit about 2 hours a day. It prevents my Central AC from running for about 2 hours. That's $1 per day ($30 per month). And I can take it over to my friend's house when her power goes out to save her freezer/fridge contents for about 8 hours.
A lease is always a fleece. Same with cars. Some people in my old neighborhood were leasing solar panels from Sun Run. Really bad idea. Who wants to pay for these panels for 15 or 20 Years? There will be better technology long before they are paid off. They DO NOT increase your property value, only causes problems with the sale.
@@inthesun3884 as a contractor with a wealthy homeowner we sued the local authority having jurisdiction and won the case and my customer is 100% off grid with no electrical connection from the utility.
We bought a home with a lease in progress, and our realtor was clueless about it and we were not warned. The lease was still for 16+ years, and we still paid PG&E hundreds of $$ monthly for electricity. The terms of the lease were unclear, and getting responses from Solar City about questions we had was nearly impossible. Any extra power we generated was credited to Solar City. We were able to pay the lease off (price was same as installing a new system) after living for 4.5 years with it. Now that we own the system, we are still paying a couple hundred a month to PG&E because it is too small to cover the needs of the home. DO NOT LEASE. Pay a little more to make sure you generate enough to more than cover your needs (life brings changes) .
@@mutteringmale I think leasing can make sense for Solar if the lease is smart. Panels only last 20-25 years and disposal, while not a huge issue today, will become a big issue moving forward as Solar gets popular. Leasing for the lifespan of the panels then having the disposal become someone else's responsibility may make sense.
I have that on a remote cabin and the payback is not having to haul gas for a generator. I was just out there 10 days and it was cloudy so I had to supplement the solar with a generator mainly for running a freezer that I was putting 6 salmon a day. I used a gallon of gas in the 10 days. I built our home with a sub panel with things like lights, boiler,refrigerator, freezer and tv/network. That can power with a small generator. I’m going to put this on solar and inverter. Id never put panels on a roof.
I was already in solar years ago when I had a quote for $30k in 2018. I asked for various features which were ignored (such as battery backup which was my primary concern). They also used 30x 100 watt panels when I was already using 300 watt panels. More panels is more labor and accessory charges. Their quote also ignored all permits by DTE (to charge back) and the cities required permits. Don't forget if you don't pay cash, then you're paying some finance charge which pushes back the breakeven date. Looking back, they've changed names 2 times and have been sued various times.
And your experience is based on the company you dealt with and this is a problem is the US. There are too many companies, or contractors that are looking to rip off people and they tend to move into new areas of services because there's less competition and you don't have a convenient way to check the company. And yes they'll claim some kind of issue like bankruptcy, end that business, and start another one so they aren't held liable for whatever work they did in the past and don't have to honor any warranty. Say what you want about Tesla, but this is one advantage of using them to install solar because they aren't going anywhere. Also, what I KNOW about taking loans in the US is it's better you do your own financing with rare exception. If you took a loan through a bank instead of through that company the interest rate would have been more reasonable, especially if you have equity in a home, and THEN interest rates are trivial. I financed a 2016 Toyota Corolla for 5 years, with a payment around $220/mo. My total interest was about $1000. I financed about $12,000 I think. Now, if you try to tell me that $1000 made much of a difference to me I'm going to laugh at that. In 2018 I'm pretty sure equity loans had VERY low interest rates, and a signature loan based on other collateral through a bank would have had higher interest, but on 30K it still would have maybe pushed back ROI by 6 - 12 months and that's not worth crying about.
You are also forgetting the opportunity cost if you pay for the panels outright. Your $40,000 today would earn almost 5% in long term treasuries. You are thus giving up the opportunity of earning almost $2000 a year.
People need to pay attention to this wise lady. I've heard academic economists talk in circles about solar who can't even explain why solar is such a bad idea. For one, they're zealots and love confusing "social costs of climate crisis" with the pocketbook issue. Basically, unlike this lady who's telling the simple facts of the matter as your household budget is going to see it, most academics have bought into climate change (getting grants and promotions and tenure requires that they do) and feel the need to factor that BS into their instruction. This lady is telling the story honestly.
You are spot on. The one thing you missed is the reliability of the inverters. My first inverter worked for a month before it died. The RMA process took two weeks and the inverter was dead-on-arrival. Another RMA two weeks wait and the second one also failed out of the box. Finally the manufacturer sent one of their technicians with the fourth unit and it has been running for 3 weeks now. We took pictures of the insides sas requested by the manufacturers support rep and uploaded and the RMA units had a repair that their service technicians on the phone recognized as " nope that one isn't going to work." There was a recent article about how much the manufacturers stock dropped last week. On reddit installers are quoting a 30 percent failure rate. They are selling stuff that doesn't work and that is why the stock is going down.
I only had an inverter quit on me after 3 years. It was a 3000 watt one from china. Then I bought a 5000 wtt low frequency one, that thing is awsome. It only around 90% efficient though.
Everything you said is true! One additional item is damage and fire risk due to squirrel nests and chewed through wiring in the nests! This is what was waiting under the panels removed from my son's house. Also, there was a large hole chewed thru the roof into the attic. He knew about the hole when he bought the house and got the seller to payoff the system. We removed the panels ourselves and he had the roof repaired and replaced. The panels will never go back on. Thanks for the video.
Had a large solar system on our last home. It happened that our roof, although fairly new, developed some issues. To do these repairs the solar panels had to be removed and reinstalled after the roof repairs were done. It was very expensive. When we did our solar install we were told that the panels had an 18 year life span and then had to be replaced. Inverter technology keeps changing/improving and this too will need upgrading sometime down the road. Also, in order for these panels to remain efficient they need to be cleaned and washed on a regular basis. We had these for about five years before selling the home. As far as energy savings go I know some people say they are very cost effective. We lived in central California and that was not our experience. I would hesitate to do it again. There are so many variables. Kinda like owning an electric car. They're great until you take on a drive across the country or a vacation to a cold location. These things are not always the panacea that they are made out to be.
Would be nice instead of generalities you were specific on the panel outcome, that is, power produced, cost savings if any over regular bill, how much output declined over time.
Gee, sounds like you're unhappy. I live i S CA and when the installer gave an estimate, they inspected the roof to ensure it had at least 10 years go to on it. And since CA started charging a surcharge if you used more electricity than they though you should that went into the state coffers, NOT to the utility, I had $600.00 a month gas & electric bill (almost all electricity) That's $7200 a year.. After installing a 5.9 kW system 5 years ago, my gas and electric bill has been under $1000 a year. Last year my true-up electric bill was $243 for the entire year.
@@donaldkasper8346 Every solar system is going to be different. I could write ten paragraphs about this. I basically told you my overall experience. Do some research and beware of those talking about the up side without mentioning the down side. There's a lot to consider.
I hate to say it... But it sounds like the company you chose , was inferior in their installation and equipment. Not all Solar companies are alike. Not are Solar systems are created equal. The key to an effective Solar experience, is to chose a quality company, with an outstanding track record. One that preferably builds and installs their own SOLAR components.
Well done! If I were 10 years younger and in the same financial place I am now, I’d seriously consider it. I asked what it would cost for a 12KW panel set plus batteries to carry the load in case of an outage. $75K I won’t live long enough to amortize that!
In Tucson we had solar and experienced a negative power bill during all but two months out of the year. The installation was just 12 panels, and there were two HVACS with no battery storage. I never questioned the installation and was totally happy with their performance. The panels were smaller, Schott panels made in Germany that performed better than the larger panels. The shade on the roof from the panels made a big difference in the performance of the upstairs HVAC.
The two benefits I see to putting the panels on the roof are 1) panels shade the roof, cutting down the heat load for the air conditioning, and 2) the labor you described is needed when the roof itself needs to be replaced. If I were going to replace the roof anyway, I'd choose long life, like standing seam metal roofing -- panels likely never need removal in my lifetime. I do understand that many home lots are too small for putting panels anywhere but the roof. But I choose to live in the country, so space is not a limitation, and I prefer to keep panels off my roof.
You elaborated on one of the points made in the video. I would NEVER consider putting a solar roof on a standard asphalt shingle roof. That would be like using cardboard as an underlay for an expensive tile floor. In generl, I think solar power for homes and businesses is a lot like the EV market - great potential but still in the "wild west" phase and full of landmines for early adopters. If you're into history, kind of like all those people who bought into Edison's vision of powering cities using DC power and we know how that patent-stealing showman's boondoggle turned out.
@@murraystewartj Our house is solar on asphalt shingle. It is a PPA (disaster we bought along with house) but a slight saving grace is the roof will need replacement about the same time as the panels will be removed for free by the PPA vendor. This gives us an opportunity to see whats what in six years (when contract ends) and we can decide how to proceed at that point. We will almost certainly go solar again but we may have some attractive roofing options which incorporate solar by that time. The Tesla roof and its ilk are still in the wild west phase today, but six years from now we may have options which are cost competitive with a standard roof replacement.
This should be a required video in order to sign up for a solar system! Very well done Ms Shackelton. In the end, there are 2 requirements to even consider solar: #1 that your going to have it for the entire life cycle of the system, so >10 years. And # 2 your roof is new. Now that you've met those, just be sure your clear on how the system works in those sticky situations: lightening, power outages, brown outs and the hardest to estimate over time, the utility company. For example, if the PUC decides to reduce the credits for over-generation, or charges you more on your base level usage, it erodes quickly the cost benefits. I had both happen to me in CA. But in the end, I did enjoy a more level pay on utility bills and I got to use a lot more electricity which is almost never talked about in this conversation. I turn my thermostat down like 5 degrees after I got the system and also bought a hot tub. Both of which were improvements to my life :)
My received bid on solar was about $90,000 for our house. They can use any word salad they want, this is secured with a lien or equivalent convertible instrument to a lien. If you sell, you have to pay off the solar or get the new owner to pick up the contract. You don't use the solar. You sell it wholesale to your energy provider who then sells you back power at the retail price. This is a 20 year legal contract commitment. 100% of all state and federal and local incentives go to the solar provider, not the homeowner.
Don't forget that the new roof warranty from the roofing contractor will be voided by the solar system contractor putting numerous penetrations through the new roof. In addition, talk to your insurance agent about the increased value and it's potential for your rates to increase.
I put a totalof 35 405 watt panels on my 2200 sf home and my average electric bill was $550 before the panels im on month 8 and my true up payment is -$200 , the panels cost me 250 a month so im saving $300 a month witch is 3600 plus whatevery they owe me at my true up, so say 4000 saved . It will only 5ake me a little over 5 years to pay off my system and i will make the 4k a year in my pocket after that . This is a must do !
I haven't been convinced by anyone or any company as of yet. Just doesn't seem like the math adds up when you calculate a lease with interest and you're still paying some monthly fee to PG&E, DWP etc
I have a friend who lives in North Carolina and he can sell his house, but they won't give him any money for the $30,000.00 invested in the Solar System on his house. So if he sells at the normal price for a house in his neighborhood, he'll loose %100 of his investment int the Solar System. In addition to that he was given a job offer in another state that would increase his income, but not enough to leave his home. So for him having a home with solar is not only hurting his home sell, he can't leave to take a job in another state he really wants. Thanks for sharing and the great information. Best Wishes & Blessings. Keith Noneya
Solar has many complex considerations to be made. Each installation is fairly unique and shortcuts are taken routinely when challenges arise. There is also roof loading considerations. I feel the choice for solar needs to come at new home builds, where additional loading capabilities can be designed in. This is a HUGE insurance question and insurance companies giving negative reactions are rightly doing so. The goal from the start should be energy reliance from government agencies, not selling the asshats power they don't want. Additions to pre-existing structures can be real rough and are often money losing propositions for the customer. This is an energy lifestyle change!
Our home is in the Phoenix suburban area. Our electric provider ( Salt River Project ) SRP was raising their charges almost annually when we decided to go Solar. We purchased 27 panels outright on a solar loan at 1.5%. We opted for a shorter term and a slightly higher payment to reduce the term from 25 years to 20 years. The warranty on the system is 25 years. We received a guaranteed output for the system, or the Solar Company pays for the power we’d purchase from SRP. The deal included upgrading the insulation in our home as the home was about 18 years old. We also negotiated a zero charge for panel removal and reinstall in case of roofing or panel issues. Our home owners insurance agreed not to raise our rates, with that provision. The deal also included blue toot and remote access thermostats. We kept our thermostat at the same settings as before installation, so we started receiving zero bills and occasionally a credit. The bill did go up about $100.00 when a family member bout an EV and was charging daily. The EV is gone now. I guess my point is, all issues related to price, warranty, upgrades, and output, can be negotiated. I opted to borrow the money needed to purchase and install rather than interrupt savings and investment.
@@Milo270_ Our home and vehicles were insured by State Farm for the past 30 years. We were required to provide a rider for proof that the Solar Provider would remove and reinstall the solar panels, with no cost to us or State Farm, in case of roof issues. I’m not sure what May have happened, with our insurance, if the Solar Company had not cooperated.
Know someone whose house had a big explosion near the solar junction box and her house burned down. She was told a big electrical surge hit her house. No other houses in her neighborhood were affected nor had solar panels.
What about Insurance companies cancelling your policy or not covering you in case of a claim. How about re-financing problems. Cleaning solar panels need to be cleaned on a regular bases for performance, what is the cost. Thank you
I have a modest 11 panel system here in SCal. With net metering, TOU rates, heat pump system for heating and cooling, also have a EV. Under former NEEM 2.0 policy my electric bills run from -$15 to $15 per month, my panels were grandfathered into v2.0. My 5 yr old panel system has already paid for itself. Also got tax credit and rebates at the time of installation. Ymmv
I am a general contractor who did my roof in 2010 and got money to do it last year. You can blow your nose on the 25 year shingle warranty. I put 50 year shingles on mine that I hope to be putting metal on this fall. Point is unless you fully cover your roof you will have to pay for the panels to come down and reinstalled. I'm surprised that she didn't address INSURANCE because roof replacement has to be a HUGE cost for homeowners insurance.
Those companies are like cockroaches down here in Florida. Every week they’re knocking on the door. Some even pretend to be from the power company. One hidden danger that people get blindsided by is that their homeowner’s insurance won’t cover the roof if they have panels up there. Some companies will drop coverage completely. The solar company will only cover damage to the panels themselves. I’ve heard too many horror stories about solar here.
Putting a lien on your house may be a problem if you refinance your mortgage. Most banks want to be first in line, not behind other creditors. Therefore, the bank may want to force you to pay off the solar in your loan.
I have solar, geothermal heating and cooling with a windmill. I produce enough energy to get a payday from the electric company. My home was built with passive solar in mind.
In Florida, my insurance rates skyrocketed after putting panels on my roof (bought outright). Also, the minimum connection fee to local electric company tripled (too many houses going solar).
Of course. They use little dingbat screws to mount the panels on the roof, so a hurricane at 90 to 150 mph will rip them all off and throw them in the street, taking some or all of your roof with it, or tearing it up causing leaks. They are raised 6 inches above the roof so they will parasail in high wind. That is, assuming thunderstorm hail doesn't take them out first.
That depends on the year you installed the solar panels. You're in a higher risk area, but insurance in general has gone up everywhere. Even in Arizona my homeowners policy went up 35%! The rider for my solar panels is $46 a year.
When we bought our Arizona house we told our real estate agent to not waste our time with any house that had solar. We have never regretted that decision yet.
I live in a 3 bedroom 2 bath home outside of Incorporated towns and cities in Az. Summer aps bill is $74. Winter aps bill is $35. But natural gas go up from $19 to $34. Water is pumped 24-7 from a wel. Ever since I moved out of the city all my monthly bills have gone down including insurance by 80%.
Very informative video. Thank you. You're assumption to your viewers is that residential solar have ONLY roof mounted panels. Of course that is not accurate. I just completed a 24 kW Solar system for my home with two solar arrays ground mounted on my property. All paid in cash as I went along. Working with my utility company now to get a net metering agreement for electric credit from my excess production. Lastly, you missed that some state insurance companies will not cover your home if you have roof mounted panels. I believe Florida is dealing with that situation now. Thank you.
I just put them on by myself and didn't put them on my roof but built a structure in the backyard and use them for shade. I also find ways to use more efficient appliances. I use lithium-iron phosphate batteries and I'm not connected to the grid.
Let's not forget the opportunity cost of the dollars expended on solar. That is: the return available in alternative investments vs. cash involved in solar purchase. Also does your home insurance cost increase due to solar install. Warranties go with the INSTALLING COMPANY. The companies (4) that have visited me to sell me solar had LLC's that we less than 1 year old. Color me skeptical at this point.
ok reality here i did in home sales and was highly trained seminars etc..well a company can give whatever warranty they want, ok.. They know incidence of failure and repairs. they then change company name before majority of claims come due..like vinyl windows they WILL fail thru use expansion etc had a class, so company changes name a little avoids any and all warrenties..its now a new company..welcome to home sales.. Ill give you a 50 year warranty.. But i retired in 10 years closed company moved to an island..no liability.. Company is gone.. thats how they do it..
I moved off grid to a place that has no electric, but before I did I studied up on solar and all about batteries for a couple years through online. I bought some panels and put them in my garage till we moved, then I built my own system. It has been great not having any bill including for the solar equipment. I bought everything I would need in advance and either paid for it at the time or put it on a low interest card. I think I only spent about $3500 for my 1900 watt system, and that included an extra charge controller as a back up. Now I also have bought a few more panels, and also have an extra inverter. Of course I started with lead acid batteries, but their life time is up, and I now have lithium batteries. and the prices for Lithiums has come down over the last few years.
My parents lived in Phoenix valley. I now live off grid in Oconee County, South Carolina. I recommend Phoenix Valley solar panel users, put tubing behind the solar panels. Transfer heat for pools or other uses. If it's not being done now.
This is the kind of solar energy information that really needs to be out there. One can learn almost everything about how solar panels work, installation, maintenance and to some extent, cost. But it's hard to find anything this comprehensive, in considering the real cost of solar. It seems for many, the only practical reason to have rooftop solar is for environmental reasons, which ain't a bad reason. I'm going to watch this again. Thanks!
@@kbob8424 Smart people know to apply the principals to their own situation. Others make comments like yours. Here's your 😂 back. You might need it for your next witty comment.
Net Metering doesn't work the same region to region, lien is not put in homes, credit roll over is also region by region, NEVER lease panels, you get no federal credit since you don't own them, warranties come from equipment manufacturer so if a company goes out your still covered, who would put solar on a roof without inspecting it and seeing if it needs repair. That's just some of the areas needing attention.
I’m buying cash an off grid diy system from signature solar and I’m installing it on a new carport so it shades our cars. This is the best thing someone can do in my opinion
Excellent coverage. I've received many in-person sales pitches. They are too vague on the subsidies, the stability/longevity/integrity of their company, and demonstrate zero understanding of basic economics. A deal breaker is roof maintenance...If a leak appears following installation, who covers it? It's certain they won't. This is of special concern because high wind gusts shake / yank at the panels and roof attachment points. If the roof was not designed from the outset for panels and/or is not optimally both oriented and sloped for solar, it's a 'no go' for me. In addition to wind loading, I worry about solar panels and framing compounding the weight of snow loads.
Most of the solar lease offers are scams. Only way to not get scammed is DIY, paying upfront out of pocket and doing your own paperwork for incentives. Also, roof mounted panels is an issue unless you have something like Tesla roof.
The problem is the local government does not allow the home to be disconnected from the utility service, therefore the power company always has you by the... well, you get what I'm saying.
Our power company will still charge you a flat monthly rate for PEAK POWER USAGE for the load that solar homes use as soon as the sun goes down. You will ALWAYS have a power bill here.
Our son had solar. When he had the roof replaced they came out and removed the panels for a fee. It seems the company was bought out and that free panel removal policy changed. The roof was replaced and the solar company was contacted to reinstall the panels. Six months later, while the panels had sat in their garage the panels were installed. They missed the whole summer of use. Not worth the hassles.
The roofer was scheduled to do the job weeks before the panels were to be installed. The roofer had been paid a deposit but was way behind schedule. When he contacted the solar company to reschedule the gave him a quote for removal and reinstallation that was reasonable. The roof had to be replaced before the rainy season.
Would it make more financial sense to: - upgrades on your house roof with a new, better insulation factor? - Install double pane windows? - Install solar water heater? - Install heat pump? - install a battery storage system that charges off peak? Can you do a video on the order in which you should spend money? PS - I’ve heard that insurance companies are leery of insuring houses with solar on roof.
I lived on a boat for a year and a half. I had 2x 200 watt panels and 3 fairly large batteries. From April to November I had no 120 power. You learn energy management pretty quick. That's the problem today. People leave things on all the time when not in use. Now you can save some by swapping out incandescent lights for LED, change your eating habits (cooking takes power) and a few other things. But what the lady says about home solar is indeed true. One of my neighbours was quoted some outrageous price to have his roof fixed. He saved some money by having some friends (one electrician and a couple of electronics techs) map out and then disassemble the system.
I know a guy who got massive water damage done to his house because of shoddily-installed solar panels. That was a fun home-insurance claim. I just got a new roof, there's no way I'm going to let some solar panel guy go up on my roof and start punching holes in it. Another fun fact is that these solar companies do a lot of business and then "go under" within 3 years so that they don't have to honor their warranties. For the houses in my area, it costs about $20,000 for solar panels. OK, my utility bill goes away but I gain a car payment. Tell me again how this is such a great deal? All I'm doing is making somebody else rich and paying more to do it.
The going out of business in 3 years has to do with depreciation and other tax benefits that I don't understand as well as getting out of warranties etc. In any case the owners just start a "new" business and do it all over for another 3 years.
We used paint, with insulating additives, through most of our house and some outside of it. We have energy efficient appliances and added more insulation and radiant barrier to our attic. Last week our temps 100+heat index and yet, without A/C we only reached 72. One winter it was -35 wind chill, our then worthless furnace sputtered for awhile, and then died. It dropped to 60. Insulation is always, always better.
I installed solar on my house seven years ago and it has been the best thing I have ever done. I did a purchase and with my savings the system is now paid for, I never considered a lease as I know of too many cases where a potential house sale was killed as the new buyers could not assume the lease.. I am with APS and I was never under the illusion that I would be free from a bill, it is typically a connection fee and only during two months in the summer does my credit run out and I have small but very affordable bill. The only way to get away from any bill would to have a battery system and that escalates the cost out of sight. My solar company was very up front and when going through the initial consultation they advised getting the roof done where the panels were placed and this is what I did and so I am now comfortable with the fact that I will be dead and buried before the roof needs to be redone. I also do not consider the roof a cost associated with the solar as it is something that was very close to being done anyway whether doing solar or not. I had a mesh system installed around the panels so pigeons could not get under them.
This is interesting. The part about having the roof done where the the panels are to be installed. I drove by a new construction development the other day and here in Cali all new homes must have solar. The roofs of the new houses appear to be especially designed to accommodate the solar system. This sounds pretty obvious, but goes to your point about roof durability. The homes had roofing on them but an open area where the panels were going to be installed. The panels also looked like more of a roof than what we are used seeing with the panels standing proud of the roof by five or six inches. I wonder if this was done to sort of permanatize the panels and leave the rest of the roof available for replacement in future years??
we priced solar last year. About $40K in loans to buy a new system after incentives. We don't get near the sun in northern Utah, so more like a 20 year payback. Just didn't feel like buying a 20 year system with a 20 year payback and a 30 year loan. Be careful, it sounds great, but is it? Maybe, just not for me.
My friend bought a house with a solar lease. He couldn't sell the house. No one could qualify for the house and lease. Then the leasing company went out of business. He lives in Maricopa.
Great video! Everything she said is true. I have a grid-tied system in my Prescott home. But my reasoning for installing the system had nothing to do with the bill. It was only about being able to be independent of the grid when it goes down. APS is a scam! They say they pay you less than for your solar because they have to maintain their infrastructure. They completely ignore that YOU also have to maintain your system! My system was installed in 2012. I recently spent over $20k for a new inverter (my original one failed last winter) and new huge capacity batteries which included the labor. And yes, I did replace my roof (insurance covered much of it) with a metal roof. Do your research before jumping in to the solar game. Generally speaking leases are bad for the very reasons she mentions. Solar panels will never be the solution to your expensive bills or to global warming.
At first, I really bucked at the idea of different rates for buying vs selling KWH. But they are right when you think about it this way. You maintain your "power plant". They maintain their power plant. And all the distribution wiring to get power from anyone's power plant to customers costs money, too. So are they breaking down that cost fairly when they separate charges for energy (KWH) from distribution? Probably not. But I don't have enough data to prove the correct answer ($ rate) is something lower than they claim.
@@americafirst9144 You can run a switching system for that or use a hybrid solar systems are there too which your solar runs your house and uses grid power to fill the gaps. When the grid goes down you still have your solar and hopefully a battery for backup to fill the gaps that the grid was helping you with. But, if your system is not large enough you still have to monitor your usage and likely not use some appliances if you want to stay cool in the summer
One advantage of solar panels that no one talks about is that it provides shade for your roof. I noticed a drop in temperature of my attic after having them installed.
I went with a ground mount system. Less panels were needed due to the ability to orient it more accurately at the path of the sun, it is easier to clean, and installing anything on the roof is asking for trouble. I even piped my wood stove through the wall.
Thank you for an excellent, well researched presentation. I have found that it is extraordinarily difficult to get accurateinformation about the real cost of solar panels. Mostly what you get are fraudulent sales pitches
Your spot on .. I put a new roof on then bought a solar system outright and it’s fantastic zero electric bill . but I don’t see it paying off if you financed or leased your system . Fusion Power was a awesome company from my experience
Thank you! What a great video! Im a 33 year veteran Real Estate Broker and this is honestly the best video I have ever seen with a simple explanation. At least as simple as it can get for solar. Hope you don't mind I actually saved this. Great Great Video! Well done too!
I live in Colorado with 300 plus days of near full sun. No a/c needed because of cool nights. I bought outright a 10,000 k system which is about 4 years old now professionally installed. It’s been operating flawlessly since installed. I get a credit at years end although the electric only pays a wholesale rate. Installed on a new metal roof. I’m a builder and the last house I built included a 10k system too and it works great.
I am 72 years old. As a kid I lived in Scottsdale Arizona. What we had for cooling indoor air was a roof cooled water system. Why not go back to using them.
@@cb-gz1vl Absolutely NOT true! Most people have no idea how they work. Most think they use water to cool the air, NO. It is physics, when a liquid changes to a gas it absorbs huge amounts of heat. I have a large one in Bend, Oregon where we routinely run 85-95 temps. all summer. It will freeze you out of this house and adds much need moisture to the air.
5:35 I think you misspoke. You said they will pay you "point-zero-nine" cents per KWH buy you displayed 0.09 cents which is 9-cents per KWH. Point-zero-nine cents would be 0.0009.
Installed my own system kept it separated from our land line. We switch over to higher efficiency HVAC, hot water heater & lighting as funds allow. Have 16 KW of solar with 30 KW of battery back up for those gloomy days. All paid for and not on my roof..... Have a little land....well what are you waiting for?
Don't have solar nor have I ever considered it. I thought about most of these problems and costs years ago without investigating the practicality of it. Just a few seconds of looking for a reason why not to solarize is the roof replacement costs, the constant cleaning maintenance and the electrical controls. I once replaced a gas water heater out of necessity. I figured I would go the high efficiency rout that uses the forced air exhaust through PVC pipe. My old heater cost me $7.00 in repairs over the 25 years. This new one had a temp sensor fail every year and a half or so. Had to replace the entire gas valve assembly because of a $20.00 sensor at the average cost of $450.00 each. Mind you I did my own work so no labor cost. $1350.00 in parts over 9 years compared to $7.00 in 25. That $1350 is about what the initial cost of the heater was. A conventional gas heater was about $800.00. That was about $1850 cost difference from a conventional heater. You say but what about the carbon footprint? Let me tell you, after the 3 repairs the carbon footprint for the manufacture of the new valves including the shipping from overseas I am positive was much greater than that high efficiency heater would have ever saved. Weather it is money savings or carbon savings all we do is shift where we spend them. It always ends up costing the same.
Bought a home in 1995, North County, San Diego. The gas water heater was installed in '91. My wife replaced it 2021 but it was still working fine. Never flushed it once in 30 years. Reliance was the brand name.
"Carbon footprint" is a lie. Carbon dioxide is not a greenhouse gas. It is approximately neutral to global temperature. And there is no man-made, or even natural cycles driven climate change happening now anyway. The planet is cooling, and has been for years. We're headed straight into a mini ice age right now,based on entirely natural cycles. Which is far worse than global warming. Humans, as well as the entire ecosystem of the entire planet, absolutely thrive during periods of global warming anyway. It is what we're heading into right now, which is global cooling, that we don't handle well at all.
It's been 5 months now since I ask my reps for the charging station specs so I can have a charge port in my electric motorcycle I am building. biden is forcing me to install the things, the least they can do is tell you what is required to use them. The cleaning and heat are the reasons I went with putting them on the ground. Shame copper prices skyrocketed. A copper roof would make a nice heatsink.
i dont have solar... i am wondering if you own your system outright and have a Battery like the Tesla wall unit. as you are producing your own electric and the electric companies grids absorbs what extra electricity you produce... do you only receive just credits or do they send you a check for the extra electric they draw from your system ???
I put a tesla solar system on my place in California - 10.8 KW. It zeroed out my electrical bill, including charging the car. $18000 after the tax break. It paid for itself in 3.5 years - and was a huge selling point (zero energy bill house) when I sold the house . so yeah - it was the smartest decision I ever made.
Power is very expensive in California and you probably have net metering. Here in Phoenix power is much cheaper and there is no net metering, excess energy is sold back to the utility company at a much cheaper rate.
@@DanielA23 Do you regret having bought the solar system as so many people now seem to have done????????? Certainly any numbers produced by actual users of solar systems in the real world do not encourage us to buy LIE-beral mouldy green technology - with the information in this video simply confirming the SOUR EXPERIENCES of solar panel owners!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And the related experience of Brits with heat pumps - in that relatively mild British climate STRONGLY SUGGESTS that only a SUCKER would buy a heat pump and expect savings in the more extreme North American climate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@@abellseaman4114 I understand this discussion was all about piling on to the evils of solar power. sorry if my experience does not match up to your bashing of solar. I researched this pretty carefully. My house is an ICF house with a SIPS panel. (Very VERY energy efficient) heated with radiant heat powered by solar water heater, cooling is swamp coolers - and i have splits in 3 rooms if i need or want AC. when I went looking for a company to put it up - they all wanted to put in a 7.5 kw system - I chose Tesla because they would do what I wanted - 10.8, and were far cheaper than anyone else per KW. essentially i "bank" my excess with the power company - and get credit at the higher rate for the extra. I had a lot of excess. in one case when the system went down during covid and we waited for a part - the system did not operate for 2 months - and my "banked" excess more than covered that. sorry if that doesn't help you bash the evils of solar power - but the numbers speak for themselves. in my case - its been an excellent investment - and its making me money every month. You cannot get that deal in Ca anymore - power companies pushed through changes so excess isn't banked or worth anything - but my agreement is grandfathered in - which makes the house even more valuable.
In my state the contractors insist on 25 Year Lease, @$100.00 or more per month "Maintenance Fee", and THEY TAKE any rebates, power kickbacks, Incentives as part of the deal. Take it or leave it. Home buyers don't want solar so housing with solar is depressed on the market. Current power was less than $100.00 ($65 to $95 per month) Last bill was $125.00. Then there is the matter of Roof Shingles warranty only 20 to 25 years.
Only one thing you forgot,when you put a 25k-40k solar system on your house it's like putting a car on your roof what insurance company is NOT going to raise your homeowners insurance rate.
Interesting, you did not mention SRP. Which if you live in the Valley of the sun ( Phoenix). Most of the valley is SRP. What I Also found out, (I just had solar put on in June of 2023. ) is the half trues of the solar company tells you. One being , peak KWh .I was told I’ll being making 5.7 kWh. True it will be making 5.7 KWh of DC electricity. Will you home is AC not DC. So the inverter makes it from DC to AC, and you loss about 16%. Next half true. Tax refund from federal and state. We did a load on ours, 25 year, you can pay it off early. But they tell you your payments will be $120 a month. Will only if you give all your return to the load in the first two years. You will never see that loan payment. As probably everyone has seen or heard. If you in in Arizona solar is free. Yea right. They make is sound like it’s free, truth is the loan payment is less that what you would be paying the electric company. So is it free…… one other thing , SRP has it setup you can not go 100% off the grid.( at least that is what was told to me by the solar company). You can only go 80% off the grid. And SRP, puts you on a special plan. KW, rates are a little higher and their hit you with a peak demand rate. I’ve never heard of that before. But it makes up about 1/3 of the charge. The bottom line is if everyone knows your going to save some money, they still what a share. 😂
Thank you so much for pointing out the flaws in thinking about placing solar panels on a home. You might add that if you are retired or no longer receiving wages, then all the government incentives may be of little help in reducing the initial cost of solar. For retirees like myself, it does not make financial sense to purchase solar panels to reduce my utility bills. It would be better for me to find ways to reduce my energy usage such as installing energy efficient appliances or replacing less efficient or older ones.
There is an additional cost that wasn't mentioned, the monthly service fee from the utility company. The permits can be a major headache as well. There is always a back and forth between the county code and the installers. Also, the utility company will limit the amount of solar produced electric that you can put on your roof. Outside of soaring electric rates or no energy at all, solar isn't worth it. You will loose big time if rates start to decline for some reason. Another solution is to have the solar panels not on the roof if you have the property. Another thing that wasn't mentioned was batteries. Very expensive. Sooner or later the bank on producing power will go away. The times you most need power isn't when the sun is shining, at least where I live. I am off grid with regards to the power company. I have some solar and wind. I am still building out the system as money and time allows. I am installing it myself which saves substantially on instillation costs. If you don't know what you're doing, you could end up burning the house down. That could happen anyway with batteries. They do catch fire. And of course your insurance will go up. The cost of buying the parts separately is about the same as buying a complete system. There are varying amounts of energy and batteries. So do your homework if you do this.
The recoup cost is what people don't take into account. If you pay $30k up front, how many years of savings do you have to go through to make up the difference. Might as well just pay the electric company $30k up front. Also on resale, if you pay $30k up front for solar and maybe can ask $10k more for the house, that's not a savings. Solar is like buying a $60k Tesla to replace your $4k used toyota camry cause you want to save money on gas.
I don't know about Az, but in Florida, insurance companies are dropping customers with solar panels on their roofs. If you get the solar you need to shop homeowners insurance to find a company who covers solar.
Buy the entire system, inverter, battery, panels and go off-grid. Don't install them on the house (panels on a stanchion in the yard) so you can take them with you over the next 40 years. Learn to install and operate everything yourself. Save the environment. Yes you'll need $30K for most homes. Always spend a lot more of battery so you've got 7 days of energy on a full charge. This method leaves the existing electric when you sell the house.
I've been a metro Phoenix area resident for 47 years (watched your pros & cons on moving to Phoenix) This vid is 2 years old but I just ran across it by accident recently (June 2024). Your take on solar validates my thinking in our case. Our home is a single story Shea tract home just shy of 2,100 sf, built in 2002. We're 2nd owners, purchased from original owners in 2009. I know enough about concrete tile roofs that their expected life span is +/-25 years. It's not the tiles that give out but the tar paper underlayment. Our 2 unit A/C system was also original builder installed R-22 'gas pack'. Well, you know what's going on with R-22, mainly it's obsolete, out of production, and getting scarcer and more expensive every year. So we opted to replace and upgrade A/C units to higher efficiency variable speed Bosch heat pumps, doing away with gas heat and claim the tax credits. Also upgraded 20 year old single speed pool pump motor to variable speed motor. We are in APS territory and I just checked my May & June 2024 bills, and the combined usage dollar amount compared to May-June 2023 was $175 less this year than last. The big reason for holding back on solar was age of the roof. Will likely need to re-do the roof within the next few years if not sooner. We're retirees in our 70s, so may not be around long enough to 'break even' on a purchased solar system nor do we want the have a lien on the home for leased solar. We plan to stay in the home as long as we're able, but that won't be much more than 10 or 15 years at best. By then, assuming we're still alive, we could sell the house (we own outright), take the money and go into independent/assisted living for our remaining years.
I agree with Theo - Great points!! As I'm sure you know, the incentives are different this year (2023) than when you made the video. People interested in adding Solar should check out what they are at the time they are considering it. Also, you could make the point that what utility serves them makes a difference. I am in the SRP service area, and they still do net metering at the current retail price. Again 2023. Politics and Utility Boards all can make changes, so just check whenever considering. Thanks for the video share!
Yes I agree. I have been in the energy savings business for a much longer time! When the govt. had no incentives. The only way solar is able to be considered these days is because it is subsidized by the govt. Taking the tax break away and it makes no sense as it is only the tax break that helps keep this scheme going.
Just installed my system.... myself! cost me around 18,500 all in permits 30 panels (270 watts) with microinverters, wiring and labor (hired random electrical workers to help me with the wiring) everything else I did myself. My offset is 5-7 years.
I live in FL in a 3700 square foot home. My electric bills range from $150 to $250 throughout the year. The best-case scenario is that it would take me about 12 years to break even.
@@maddhatter3564 how could it be less? $30,000 cash for Solar panels divided by an average bill of $200 is 12.5 years. Do the math. If we were in our 30s or 40s, it wouldn’t be a bad investment, but we’re in our 50s, so it doesn’t make sense.
@@maddhatter3564 that’s hysterical. It’s 3rd grade math. It’s not that complicated. $30,000 cost for panels. $200 a month for electricity. 30,000 / 200 = 150 months. 150 months / 12 months in a year = 12.5 years. That’s how long it would take to break even.
Hi beautiful I really liked this one (this video) because you are the only one that I have seen analyzing and clearly outputting the result of solar system hypes going on in the area.
I live in Florida and my electric bill is always less then $100. I have a 3 bedroom, 2 bath and 2 car garage house. Hence there is no reason for me to get solar.
I don't understand what your saying for my mind does not function right. So If I don't understand I don't buy things. Figured that I just go with electric company. I do have money to pay it in cash. Don't do debt; just cash.
Great video, only thing Id mention is majority of companies will still maintain the system for 25 years if you decide to finance or pay cash out right for ownership So even if the homeowner decides to own opposed to lease their system they will still be under a 25 year warranty
Regarding Warranties. If you sign a lease or PPA with a solar company they might maintain part or all the system. If you purchase the system yourself then you are responsible. It depends on which solar company you sign with and the terms of the contract.
I cannot imagine these panels will last 25 years to pay off a lease. What do you receive if after 17 years the panels are all shot? New panels, pro-rate, what? Now, some new, most old, junk the whole system?
@@rondye9398 companies will replace the whole system for you if needed all have a 25 year warranty plus a 25 year production guarantee meaning they have to produce at least 95% of what they produce the first year or else they’ll replace all the panels
Interesting take. Here’s mine. When I installed solar on my roof I also had a new roof installed, so I wouldn’t have to do it later. The bill for the roof and 24 panels was $34000.00. Ygrene financed the project. It was a 30 year loan. At the end of the 30 years I would have paid Ygrene $82000.00. Calculating my electric bill at an average of $250.00 per month (summer & winter combined) I would have paid FPL $122000.00 over the same 30 year period, assuming FPL never raised their rates. (In the time since I installed the solar panels FPL has raised their rates TWICE). So for me this was a no-brainer. Give FPL $122000.00 plus over 30 years, or give Ygrene $82000.00 over the same time frame. (In case you are wondering, I plug in my electric car and crank my a/c to the max but I have no electric bill)
I bought a plug and play 5000W Solar Inverter Off Grid system $700 ebay, bought 10 used 250w Panels 2.5kw from Santan $45 each total $450, 48v lifepo4 25AH battery $200 and wiring $100 TOTAL $1450. My electric bill for the past 3 years has been no higher than $50 a month it used to be $120 to $300. DIY if you can and save yourself 15k I almost forgot get a permit I think it was $200 including inspection
I drive a Bolt because the numbers made sense. I did not install solar because I couldn't make the numbers work. I live in the sticks so I think in a few years a ground mounted system with battery will make sense if I disconnect from the grid.
Great information. Many things to consider before going solar. Another problem I have seen is roof damage by the solar installers not discovered until several years later. Concrete/clay tile roofs are especially vulnerable to damage just from installers walking on them.
Absolutely, as a handyman I feel so bad for an elderly woman who's home, with a tile roof, had a rather severe leak and there was not a lot that could be done with the solar panels covering the suspected area.
This panel can put out close to 100 watts th-cam.com/users/postUgkxOqI2yqX0XVrhR2BMJciTWrHJpG8FhJyg when positioned in the appropriate southernly direction, tilted to the optimal angle for your latitude/date, and connected to a higher capacity device than a 500. The built in kickstand angle is a fixed at 50 degrees. Up to 20% more power can be output by selecting the actual date and latitude optimal angle.The 500 will only input 3.5A maximum at 18 volts for 63 watts. Some of the excess power from the panel can be fed into a USB battery bank, charged directly from the panel while also charging a 500. This will allow you to harvest as much as 63 + 15 = 78 watts.If this panel is used to charge a larger device, such as the power station, then its full output potential can be realized.
I signed up for solar. They made it sound its the future and not to fall behind after my neighbors. Once i signed up, the next step was the contractor to get a permit to work on my house. While that was going on, i sat on my elect bills and review what i was told vs what i have now. I concluded, solar is no go. My solar payment wouldve been $185 a month for 16 years. My electric bill is typically $-45 to $85 a month (yes thats a negative on the 45). I decided to cancel, so i quickly called the company and told them to cancel everything before they do the first step of the work. The area manager quickly called me to save the sale. I declined and told him its not worth it for me as my bill rarely hits above $50 because i live alone in my home. He was so mad on not taking the bait to keep the contract. With that attitude, im glad i canceled and will not buy any solar in my lifetime.
Curious how you have a negative electric bill
I too will never buy solar!!!!!!
I hope you can reconsider a lifetime ban. I know I'll never go with any contracts that are complex or difficult to understand. If a salesman is involved, the deal is probably a no-go right out of the gate.
But small scale projects can be educational and useful. For example, you might have an outdoor freezer (garage style use) and want that to go solar, completely independent of the grid. Or something else.
You can search TH-cam for Will Prowse to learn anything and everything about DIY solar. He started with meeting RV power needs, and went up from there. It really can be cost effective, after you take out salesmen, installers, and any other middlemen.
It also helps to learn how to buy it cheaply. I paid 25 cents per watt several years ago, and the going rate was about 4x that (I'm talking about just the panels). I got inverters and charge controllers for about half the market rate, and it's name brand stuff, too. The battery bank is great, and also half the market rate. In total, my system is 66 KW peak in, 24 KWH of storage (3 days of my average needs), and 12 KW peak out (120/240 VAC).
It is the new scam nothing like having an electric bill and a solar bill
A wise choice. Solar and wind are boondoggles, and are inherently far more expensive than conventional hydrocarbon baseload power.
Ive come to the conclusion that solar companies are just the “ vinyl siding, replacement windows, encyclopedia, kirby vacuum, scammers of the 2020’s.
It's nice to see someone who has done their homework. I am an engineer and I have investigated the solar industry and whether it makes sense for my personal home. For me the only system that makes any sense for anyone is to have panels in your backyard on posts that follow the sun all year. It maxes output and puts the system in a place where you can easily maintain it. I have yet to find a solar dealer who will do it. They can't make the same income from you so they won't do it. The entire industry is about max profits.
You are absolutely right about the proffits, and that is the biggest problem in solar these days. I had an uncle that was an electrical engineer, he died about 8 month before I thought about moving off grid. I sure wished i COULD HAVE PICKED HIS MIOND WHEN I started looking into solar for our power as there is nothing else out here other than bare acreage, and critters. But it sure is peaceful and of course quiet.
The cost for a movable rack and reliable motor can’t be justified. If you have the space, it’s much more cost-effective to add one or two more panels.
You are absolutely right. I am surprised he said he was an engineer and investigated costs. You get so very little extra power by tracking because the sun's intensity is not that much at the margins - mornings and evenings. @@newsgeekus1216
You don’t sound like engineer you’re making too many never statements or even using the word never. I live in Phoenix I have solar in my house it’s on the roof they cannot move and I have had one $35 electric bill since I put them on. I purchased them I need a 10 year loan with a payment at $143 a month. After 10 years zero payment and the cost of electricity was averaging 180 a month and that was keeping the temperature pretty high like 78 now that I have solar I run the AC at 75 to 76 all day, long and at night, I produce more power that I can use. I did not get a battery just because they were so expensive but APS does pay me for the overage, although not very much but it’s enough to cover all my usage at night. So again I lowered my bill about $40 a month and then six more years or less because I’ll probably pay it off early. I’ll have no bill so I’m protected against APS cost increases as well and works for me.
@@Riorozen no my monthly payment on the solar system is 139 on a 10 year loan. But that wiped out my electric bill totally. I’m happy to talk to you on the phone if u want more information. I used Tesla. $100 down. Total cost $19000 for 29 panels. Some time in the first two years they offer you to make a principle reduction of $4900. If I don’t your payment will be about $200 a month.
Simple: The lease is a fleece. Pay cash and know how to calculate a ROI on your own. Otherwise skip it. Also, Don't go solar unless you've exhausted all energy efficiency investments first.
LED bulbs, Insulation, Storm Windows.
Then consider solar. And really you do not need a huge system. You just need a big enough system to run a 5000 BTU unit during the day. That's about $6,000 these days and expected to be $4,000 by 2025. This shaves off a *lot* of AC by your central AC. My central AC only runs 3 hours a day in 100 degree temperature. My electric bill is $50ish 8 months a year and $100, $125, $175, $125 in june, july, august.
You do not have to be grid tied for a system like this. And you can use it to keep up your laptop and cable modem. I own an even smaller system that runs my 5000 btu unit about 2 hours a day. It prevents my Central AC from running for about 2 hours. That's $1 per day ($30 per month). And I can take it over to my friend's house when her power goes out to save her freezer/fridge contents for about 8 hours.
A lease is always a fleece. Same with cars. Some people in my old neighborhood were leasing solar panels from Sun Run. Really bad idea. Who wants to pay for these panels for 15 or 20 Years? There will be better technology long before they are paid off. They DO NOT increase your property value, only causes problems with the sale.
@inthesun3884 that's surprising. So if you have 4 panels in the back yard hooked to nothing but a solar generator, they will fine you?
Scotty Kilmer says that leasing (rather than buying) is the way to go if you absolutely must have that that fancy new high performance European car.
@@inthesun3884 as a contractor with a wealthy homeowner we sued the local authority having jurisdiction and won the case and my customer is 100% off grid with no electrical connection from the utility.
We bought a home with a lease in progress, and our realtor was clueless about it and we were not warned. The lease was still for 16+ years, and we still paid PG&E hundreds of $$ monthly for electricity. The terms of the lease were unclear, and getting responses from Solar City about questions we had was nearly impossible. Any extra power we generated was credited to Solar City. We were able to pay the lease off (price was same as installing a new system) after living for 4.5 years with it. Now that we own the system, we are still paying a couple hundred a month to PG&E because it is too small to cover the needs of the home. DO NOT LEASE. Pay a little more to make sure you generate enough to more than cover your needs (life brings changes) .
Do not lease ANYTHING. Leasing is a giant scam. Leasing a car puts you upside down for life, usually. You die owing money to the company store.
@@mutteringmale I think leasing can make sense for Solar if the lease is smart. Panels only last 20-25 years and disposal, while not a huge issue today, will become a big issue moving forward as Solar gets popular. Leasing for the lifespan of the panels then having the disposal become someone else's responsibility may make sense.
Ugh, sorry to hear that!
@@mutteringmale
that reminds me of a song.
th-cam.com/video/fzlT80jQ3lo/w-d-xo.html&pp=ygUfc2l4dGVlbiB0b25zIGdlb2ZmIGNhc3RlbGx1Y2NpIA%3D%3D
Sounds like a complete scam.
The only way I would go solar is off grid living.
I have that on a remote cabin and the payback is not having to haul gas for a generator. I was just out there 10 days and it was cloudy so I had to supplement the solar with a generator mainly for running a freezer that I was putting 6 salmon a day. I used a gallon of gas in the 10 days. I built our home with a sub panel with things like lights, boiler,refrigerator, freezer and tv/network. That can power with a small generator. I’m going to put this on solar and inverter. Id never put panels on a roof.
With my own battery Bank inverters wiring nothing hooked to the grid at all.
off grid baby, 12 years now. wouldnt be tethered again
I was already in solar years ago when I had a quote for $30k in 2018. I asked for various features which were ignored (such as battery backup which was my primary concern). They also used 30x 100 watt panels when I was already using 300 watt panels. More panels is more labor and accessory charges. Their quote also ignored all permits by DTE (to charge back) and the cities required permits. Don't forget if you don't pay cash, then you're paying some finance charge which pushes back the breakeven date. Looking back, they've changed names 2 times and have been sued various times.
And your experience is based on the company you dealt with and this is a problem is the US. There are too many companies, or contractors that are looking to rip off people and they tend to move into new areas of services because there's less competition and you don't have a convenient way to check the company. And yes they'll claim some kind of issue like bankruptcy, end that business, and start another one so they aren't held liable for whatever work they did in the past and don't have to honor any warranty. Say what you want about Tesla, but this is one advantage of using them to install solar because they aren't going anywhere.
Also, what I KNOW about taking loans in the US is it's better you do your own financing with rare exception. If you took a loan through a bank instead of through that company the interest rate would have been more reasonable, especially if you have equity in a home, and THEN interest rates are trivial. I financed a 2016 Toyota Corolla for 5 years, with a payment around $220/mo. My total interest was about $1000. I financed about $12,000 I think. Now, if you try to tell me that $1000 made much of a difference to me I'm going to laugh at that. In 2018 I'm pretty sure equity loans had VERY low interest rates, and a signature loan based on other collateral through a bank would have had higher interest, but on 30K it still would have maybe pushed back ROI by 6 - 12 months and that's not worth crying about.
You are also forgetting the opportunity cost if you pay for the panels outright. Your $40,000 today would earn almost 5% in long term treasuries. You are thus giving up the opportunity of earning almost $2000 a year.
@@robertlloyd3184 Yes, but did she even mention the benefits to society and the increase in electric rates that are possible in the future?
How much heat does the Black Solar Panels throw out to the environment?
@@tomchaput1206 Black absorbs heat and white reflects heat. Not what you thought was it?
That's funny, it used to be aluminum siding that was the big time grift going door to door.
Cons never change do they.
People need to pay attention to this wise lady. I've heard academic economists talk in circles about solar who can't even explain why solar is such a bad idea. For one, they're zealots and love confusing "social costs of climate crisis" with the pocketbook issue. Basically, unlike this lady who's telling the simple facts of the matter as your household budget is going to see it, most academics have bought into climate change (getting grants and promotions and tenure requires that they do) and feel the need to factor that BS into their instruction.
This lady is telling the story honestly.
You are spot on. The one thing you missed is the reliability of the inverters. My first inverter worked for a month before it died. The RMA process took two weeks and the inverter was dead-on-arrival. Another RMA two weeks wait and the second one also failed out of the box. Finally the manufacturer sent one of their technicians with the fourth unit and it has been running for 3 weeks now. We took pictures of the insides sas requested by the manufacturers support rep and uploaded and the RMA units had a repair that their service technicians on the phone recognized as " nope that one isn't going to work." There was a recent article about how much the manufacturers stock dropped last week. On reddit installers are quoting a 30 percent failure rate. They are selling stuff that doesn't work and that is why the stock is going down.
Mind sharing which inverter company that was?
And an inverter is an extremely simple device to design and build. You could make one yourself if you're up to a bit of soldering.
@@ttrruaminpn5755 solar edge.
I only had an inverter quit on me after 3 years. It was a 3000 watt one from china. Then I bought a 5000 wtt low frequency one, that thing is awsome. It only around 90% efficient though.
It's better to feed the solar into the meter. Then watch the dials go backwards. Going directly to the power company.
Everything you said is true! One additional item is damage and fire risk due to squirrel nests and chewed through wiring in the nests! This is what was waiting under the panels removed from my son's house. Also, there was a large hole chewed thru the roof into the attic. He knew about the hole when he bought the house and got the seller to payoff the system. We removed the panels ourselves and he had the roof repaired and replaced. The panels will never go back on. Thanks for the video.
Thanks for watching!
You can have mesh installed around the perimeter of the panels to keep the squirls and birds out.
That’s too bad. You have a lot of sun to harvest there. Add an EV to the mix and you’re driving around on solar energy.
Had a large solar system on our last home. It happened that our roof, although fairly new, developed some issues. To do these repairs the solar panels had to be removed and reinstalled after the roof repairs were done. It was very expensive. When we did our solar install we were told that the panels had an 18 year life span and then had to be replaced. Inverter technology keeps changing/improving and this too will need upgrading sometime down the road. Also, in order for these panels to remain efficient they need to be cleaned and washed on a regular basis. We had these for about five years before selling the home. As far as energy savings go I know some people say they are very cost effective. We lived in central California and that was not our experience. I would hesitate to do it again. There are so many variables. Kinda like owning an electric car. They're great until you take on a drive across the country or a vacation to a cold location. These things are not always the panacea that they are made out to be.
Would be nice instead of generalities you were specific on the panel outcome, that is, power produced, cost savings if any over regular bill, how much output declined over time.
Gee, sounds like you're unhappy. I live i S CA and when the installer gave an estimate, they inspected the roof to ensure it had at least 10 years go to on it. And since CA started charging a surcharge if you used more electricity than they though you should that went into the state coffers, NOT to the utility, I had $600.00 a month gas & electric bill (almost all electricity) That's $7200 a year.. After installing a 5.9 kW system 5 years ago, my gas and electric bill has been under $1000 a year. Last year my true-up electric bill was $243 for the entire year.
@@donaldkasper8346 Every solar system is going to be different. I could write ten paragraphs about this. I basically told you my overall experience. Do some research and beware of those talking about the up side without mentioning the down side. There's a lot to consider.
I hate to say it...
But it sounds like the company you chose , was inferior in their installation and equipment.
Not all Solar companies are alike.
Not are Solar systems are created equal.
The key to an effective Solar experience, is to chose a quality company, with an outstanding track record.
One that preferably builds and installs their own SOLAR components.
Solar panels will still put out 80% of original power after 20 years, they do not need replaced unless you want more power.
APS also charges a monthly fee for energy bought back to cover the maintenance of the lines and associated infrastructure system.
Well done! If I were 10 years younger and in the same financial place I am now, I’d seriously consider it.
I asked what it would cost for a 12KW panel set plus batteries to carry the load in case of an outage. $75K
I won’t live long enough to amortize that!
In Tucson we had solar and experienced a negative power bill during all but two months out of the year. The installation was just 12 panels, and there were two HVACS with no battery storage. I never questioned the installation and was totally happy with their performance.
The panels were smaller, Schott panels made in Germany that performed better than the larger panels. The shade on the roof from the panels made a big difference in the performance of the upstairs HVAC.
The two benefits I see to putting the panels on the roof are 1) panels shade the roof, cutting down the heat load for the air conditioning, and 2) the labor you described is needed when the roof itself needs to be replaced. If I were going to replace the roof anyway, I'd choose long life, like standing seam metal roofing -- panels likely never need removal in my lifetime.
I do understand that many home lots are too small for putting panels anywhere but the roof. But I choose to live in the country, so space is not a limitation, and I prefer to keep panels off my roof.
You elaborated on one of the points made in the video. I would NEVER consider putting a solar roof on a standard asphalt shingle roof. That would be like using cardboard as an underlay for an expensive tile floor. In generl, I think solar power for homes and businesses is a lot like the EV market - great potential but still in the "wild west" phase and full of landmines for early adopters. If you're into history, kind of like all those people who bought into Edison's vision of powering cities using DC power and we know how that patent-stealing showman's boondoggle turned out.
@@murraystewartj Our house is solar on asphalt shingle. It is a PPA (disaster we bought along with house) but a slight saving grace is the roof will need replacement about the same time as the panels will be removed for free by the PPA vendor. This gives us an opportunity to see whats what in six years (when contract ends) and we can decide how to proceed at that point. We will almost certainly go solar again but we may have some attractive roofing options which incorporate solar by that time. The Tesla roof and its ilk are still in the wild west phase today, but six years from now we may have options which are cost competitive with a standard roof replacement.
This should be a required video in order to sign up for a solar system! Very well done Ms Shackelton. In the end, there are 2 requirements to even consider solar: #1 that your going to have it for the entire life cycle of the system, so >10 years. And # 2 your roof is new. Now that you've met those, just be sure your clear on how the system works in those sticky situations: lightening, power outages, brown outs and the hardest to estimate over time, the utility company. For example, if the PUC decides to reduce the credits for over-generation, or charges you more on your base level usage, it erodes quickly the cost benefits. I had both happen to me in CA.
But in the end, I did enjoy a more level pay on utility bills and I got to use a lot more electricity which is almost never talked about in this conversation. I turn my thermostat down like 5 degrees after I got the system and also bought a hot tub. Both of which were improvements to my life :)
Thank you for your well balanced comment!
My received bid on solar was about $90,000 for our house. They can use any word salad they want, this is secured with a lien or equivalent convertible instrument to a lien. If you sell, you have to pay off the solar or get the new owner to pick up the contract. You don't use the solar. You sell it wholesale to your energy provider who then sells you back power at the retail price. This is a 20 year legal contract commitment. 100% of all state and federal and local incentives go to the solar provider, not the homeowner.
This info is huge!
In Albuquerque, getting truthful info is impossible!
Thank you for this video.
Make more!
Don't forget that the new roof warranty from the roofing contractor will be voided by the solar system contractor putting numerous penetrations through the new roof. In addition, talk to your insurance agent about the increased value and it's potential for your rates to increase.
I put a totalof 35 405 watt panels on my 2200 sf home and my average electric bill was $550 before the panels im on month 8 and my true up payment is -$200 , the panels cost me 250 a month so im saving $300 a month witch is 3600 plus whatevery they owe me at my true up, so say 4000 saved . It will only 5ake me a little over 5 years to pay off my system and i will make the 4k a year in my pocket after that . This is a must do !
My electric gate runs on a deep cycle battery charged by a solar panel. I maintain it. That’s as much as I want.
I haven't been convinced by anyone or any company as of yet. Just doesn't seem like the math adds up when you calculate a lease with interest and you're still paying some monthly fee to PG&E, DWP etc
I have a friend who lives in North Carolina and he can sell his house, but they won't give him any money for the $30,000.00 invested in the Solar System on his house. So if he sells at the normal price for a house in his neighborhood, he'll loose %100 of his investment int the Solar System. In addition to that he was given a job offer in another state that would increase his income, but not enough to leave his home. So for him having a home with solar is not only hurting his home sell, he can't leave to take a job in another state he really wants. Thanks for sharing and the great information. Best Wishes & Blessings. Keith Noneya
Well the cost 45,000 1000 sq ft house 185 a month payment. 0 bill in the winter. Last summer, 70 during the summer this year, 140 in the summer.
Solar has many complex considerations to be made. Each installation is fairly unique and shortcuts are taken routinely when challenges arise. There is also roof loading considerations. I feel the choice for solar needs to come at new home builds, where additional loading capabilities can be designed in. This is a HUGE insurance question and insurance companies giving negative reactions are rightly doing so. The goal from the start should be energy reliance from government agencies, not selling the asshats power they don't want. Additions to pre-existing structures can be real rough and are often money losing propositions for the customer. This is an energy lifestyle change!
I have read many insurers do not like panels as they can be damaged in a thunderstorm.
New homes here in Commiefornia are REQUIRED to have solar installed during construction..
Purchased mine in 2018, haven't paid an electric bill since and get a nice check to pay me back for the rest of the credit at the end of the year.
Our home is in the Phoenix suburban area. Our electric provider ( Salt River Project ) SRP was raising their charges almost annually when we decided to go Solar. We purchased 27 panels outright on a solar loan at 1.5%. We opted for a shorter term and a slightly higher payment to reduce the term from 25 years to 20 years. The warranty on the system is 25 years. We received a guaranteed output for the system, or the Solar Company pays for the power we’d purchase from SRP. The deal included upgrading the insulation in our home as the home was about 18 years old. We also negotiated a zero charge for panel removal and reinstall in case of roofing or panel issues. Our home owners insurance agreed not to raise our rates, with that provision. The deal also included blue toot and remote access thermostats. We kept our thermostat at the same settings as before installation, so we started receiving zero bills and occasionally a credit. The bill did go up about $100.00 when a family member bout an EV and was charging daily. The EV is gone now. I guess my point is, all issues related to price, warranty, upgrades, and output, can be negotiated. I opted to borrow the money needed to purchase and install rather than interrupt savings and investment.
How much did you say the system cost you again? Funny how you left that out.
Did u insurance rate go up?
Or did u have to get a new insurance carrier, cause I heard stories of people being canceled
@@Milo270_ Our home and vehicles were insured by State Farm for the past 30 years. We were required to provide a rider for proof that the Solar Provider would remove and reinstall the solar panels, with no cost to us or State Farm, in case of roof issues. I’m not sure what May have happened, with our insurance, if the Solar Company had not cooperated.
@@davedav214 $49k or $180 monthly for 20 years. Zero out of pocket.
@@rfisher7199 Doesn't sound like Zero out of pocket to me.
Know someone whose house had a big explosion near the solar junction box and her house burned down. She was told a big electrical surge hit her house. No other houses in her neighborhood were affected nor had solar panels.
What about Insurance companies cancelling your policy or not covering you in case of a claim. How about re-financing problems. Cleaning solar panels need to be cleaned on a regular bases for performance, what is the cost. Thank you
I have a modest 11 panel system here in SCal. With net metering, TOU rates, heat pump system for heating and cooling, also have a EV. Under former NEEM 2.0 policy my electric bills run from -$15 to $15 per month, my panels were grandfathered into v2.0. My 5 yr old panel system has already paid for itself. Also got tax credit and rebates at the time of installation. Ymmv
I am a general contractor who did my roof in 2010 and got money to do it last year. You can blow your nose on the 25 year shingle warranty. I put 50 year shingles on mine that I hope to be putting metal on this fall. Point is unless you fully cover your roof you will have to pay for the panels to come down and reinstalled. I'm surprised that she didn't address INSURANCE because roof replacement has to be a HUGE cost for homeowners insurance.
When I started seeing these things popping up, that was the first thing that came to mind. A very expensive re-roofing.
Those companies are like cockroaches down here in Florida. Every week they’re knocking on the door. Some even pretend to be from the power company.
One hidden danger that people get blindsided by is that their homeowner’s insurance won’t cover the roof if they have panels up there. Some companies will drop coverage completely. The solar company will only cover damage to the panels themselves.
I’ve heard too many horror stories about solar here.
Putting a lien on your house may be a problem if you refinance your mortgage. Most banks want to be first in line, not behind other creditors. Therefore, the bank may want to force you to pay off the solar in your loan.
Excellent video pointing out a number of issues that wouldn't necessarily occur to many of us. Thanks!
I have solar, geothermal heating and cooling with a windmill. I produce enough energy to get a payday from the electric company. My home was built with passive solar in mind.
In Florida, my insurance rates skyrocketed after putting panels on my roof (bought outright). Also, the minimum connection fee to local electric company tripled (too many houses going solar).
Of course. They use little dingbat screws to mount the panels on the roof, so a hurricane at 90 to 150 mph will rip them all off and throw them in the street, taking some or all of your roof with it, or tearing it up causing leaks. They are raised 6 inches above the roof so they will parasail in high wind. That is, assuming thunderstorm hail doesn't take them out first.
That depends on the year you installed the solar panels. You're in a higher risk area, but insurance in general has gone up everywhere. Even in Arizona my homeowners policy went up 35%! The rider for my solar panels is $46 a year.
DYI you would be amazed how easy it is to do the work yourself...
When we bought our Arizona house we told our real estate agent to not waste our time with any house that had solar. We have never regretted that decision yet.
thats y i put my 20 panels on a stand in the back yard. no roofing problems
I live in a 3 bedroom 2 bath home outside of Incorporated towns and cities in Az. Summer aps bill is $74. Winter aps bill is $35. But natural gas go up from $19 to $34. Water is pumped 24-7 from a wel. Ever since I moved out of the city all my monthly bills have gone down including insurance by 80%.
Very informative video. Thank you. You're assumption to your viewers is that residential solar have ONLY roof mounted panels. Of course that is not accurate. I just completed a 24 kW Solar system for my home with two solar arrays ground mounted on my property. All paid in cash as I went along. Working with my utility company now to get a net metering agreement for electric credit from my excess production. Lastly, you missed that some state insurance companies will not cover your home if you have roof mounted panels. I believe Florida is dealing with that situation now. Thank you.
You must have a large property area, most residential owners in suburbs don't.
some homeowners dont have the space for ground mount. they have a pretty big footprint
I just put them on by myself and didn't put them on my roof but built a structure in the backyard and use them for shade. I also find ways to use more efficient appliances. I use lithium-iron phosphate batteries and I'm not connected to the grid.
Let's not forget the opportunity cost of the dollars expended on solar. That is: the return available in alternative investments vs. cash involved in solar purchase. Also does your home insurance cost increase due to solar install. Warranties go with the INSTALLING COMPANY. The companies (4) that have visited me to sell me solar had LLC's that we less than 1 year old. Color me skeptical at this point.
ok reality here i did in home sales and was highly trained seminars etc..well a company can give whatever warranty they want, ok.. They know incidence of failure and repairs. they then change company name before majority of claims come due..like vinyl windows they WILL fail thru use expansion etc had a class, so company changes name a little avoids any and all warrenties..its now a new company..welcome to home sales.. Ill give you a 50 year warranty.. But i retired in 10 years closed company moved to an island..no liability.. Company is gone.. thats how they do it..
Thanks!
Thanks! Glad this was helpful!
Best explanation about residential solar I've ever seen!
You can mount them on racks in the back yard.
I moved off grid to a place that has no electric, but before I did I studied up on solar and all about batteries for a couple years through online. I bought some panels and put them in my garage till we moved, then I built my own system. It has been great not having any bill including for the solar equipment. I bought everything I would need in advance and either paid for it at the time or put it on a low interest card. I think I only spent about $3500 for my 1900 watt system, and that included an extra charge controller as a back up. Now I also have bought a few more panels, and also have an extra inverter. Of course I started with lead acid batteries, but their life time is up, and I now have lithium batteries. and the prices for Lithiums has come down over the last few years.
Batteries last a few hours and run for 5 years then have to be replaced.
Can you replace the batteries as the technology improves?
@@mikemiller659 Yes I have some lithiums I will use in place of them.
@@mikemiller659
Yes as long as they are compatible with the system.
Sodium batteries will be cheaper than Lithium
My parents lived in Phoenix valley. I now live off grid in Oconee County, South Carolina. I recommend Phoenix Valley solar panel users, put tubing behind the solar panels. Transfer heat for pools or other uses. If it's not being done now.
This is the kind of solar energy information that really needs to be out there. One can learn almost everything about how solar panels work, installation, maintenance and to some extent, cost. But it's hard to find anything this comprehensive, in considering the real cost of solar. It seems for many, the only practical reason to have rooftop solar is for environmental reasons, which ain't a bad reason. I'm going to watch this again. Thanks!
Except it's wrong for any other region except where she is in Arizona. 😂
@@kbob8424 Smart people know to apply the principals to their own situation. Others make comments like yours. Here's your 😂 back. You might need it for your next witty comment.
Net Metering doesn't work the same region to region, lien is not put in homes, credit roll over is also region by region, NEVER lease panels, you get no federal credit since you don't own them, warranties come from equipment manufacturer so if a company goes out your still covered, who would put solar on a roof without inspecting it and seeing if it needs repair. That's just some of the areas needing attention.
I’m buying cash an off grid diy system from signature solar and I’m installing it on a new carport so it shades our cars. This is the best thing someone can do in my opinion
Excellent coverage. I've received many in-person sales pitches. They are too vague on the subsidies, the stability/longevity/integrity of their company, and demonstrate zero understanding of basic economics. A deal breaker is roof maintenance...If a leak appears following installation, who covers it? It's certain they won't. This is of special concern because high wind gusts shake / yank at the panels and roof attachment points. If the roof was not designed from the outset for panels and/or is not optimally both oriented and sloped for solar, it's a 'no go' for me. In addition to wind loading, I worry about solar panels and framing compounding the weight of snow loads.
Most of the solar lease offers are scams. Only way to not get scammed is DIY, paying upfront out of pocket and doing your own paperwork for incentives. Also, roof mounted panels is an issue unless you have something like Tesla roof.
The problem is the local government does not allow the home to be disconnected from the utility service, therefore the power company always has you by the... well, you get what I'm saying.
sadly ive heard of that. i live in a county where we dont even have building permits so i didnt have that issue
Between the meter and the breaker panel there is a switch to cut the power and your local govemment does not allow you to cut the power?
Our power company will still charge you a flat monthly rate for PEAK POWER USAGE for the load that solar homes use as soon as the sun goes down. You will ALWAYS have a power bill here.
Our son had solar. When he had the roof replaced they came out and removed the panels for a fee. It seems the company was bought out and that free panel removal policy changed. The roof was replaced and the solar company was contacted to reinstall the panels. Six months later, while the panels had sat in their garage the panels were installed. They missed the whole summer of use. Not worth the hassles.
So his mistake was to making sure the roof was up to date when installing solar. A properly done roof should last for 30 to 40 years.
The roofer was scheduled to do the job weeks before the panels were to be installed. The roofer had been paid a deposit but was way behind schedule. When he contacted the solar company to reschedule the gave him a quote for removal and reinstallation that was reasonable. The roof had to be replaced before the rainy season.
Would it make more financial sense to:
- upgrades on your house roof with a new, better insulation factor?
- Install double pane windows?
- Install solar water heater?
- Install heat pump?
- install a battery storage system that charges off peak?
Can you do a video on the order in which you should spend money?
PS - I’ve heard that insurance companies are leery of insuring houses with solar on roof.
Need more information like this, very straight forward!
I lived on a boat for a year and a half. I had 2x 200 watt panels and 3 fairly large batteries. From April to November I had no 120 power. You learn energy management pretty quick. That's the problem today. People leave things on all the time when not in use. Now you can save some by swapping out incandescent lights for LED, change your eating habits (cooking takes power) and a few other things. But what the lady says about home solar is indeed true. One of my neighbours was quoted some outrageous price to have his roof fixed. He saved some money by having some friends (one electrician and a couple of electronics techs) map out and then disassemble the system.
I know a guy who got massive water damage done to his house because of shoddily-installed solar panels. That was a fun home-insurance claim. I just got a new roof, there's no way I'm going to let some solar panel guy go up on my roof and start punching holes in it.
Another fun fact is that these solar companies do a lot of business and then "go under" within 3 years so that they don't have to honor their warranties. For the houses in my area, it costs about $20,000 for solar panels. OK, my utility bill goes away but I gain a car payment. Tell me again how this is such a great deal? All I'm doing is making somebody else rich and paying more to do it.
The going out of business in 3 years has to do with depreciation and other tax benefits that I don't understand as well as getting out of warranties etc. In any case the owners just start a "new" business and do it all over for another 3 years.
We used paint, with insulating additives, through most of our house and some outside of it. We have energy efficient appliances and added more insulation and radiant barrier to our attic. Last week our temps 100+heat index and yet, without A/C we only reached 72. One winter it was -35 wind chill, our then worthless furnace sputtered for awhile, and then died. It dropped to 60. Insulation is always, always better.
I installed solar on my house seven years ago and it has been the best thing I have ever done. I did a purchase and with my savings the system is now paid for, I never considered a lease as I know of too many cases where a potential house sale was killed as the new buyers could not assume the lease.. I am with APS and I was never under the illusion that I would be free from a bill, it is typically a connection fee and only during two months in the summer does my credit run out and I have small but very affordable bill. The only way to get away from any bill would to have a battery system and that escalates the cost out of sight. My solar company was very up front and when going through the initial consultation they advised getting the roof done where the panels were placed and this is what I did and so I am now comfortable with the fact that I will be dead and buried before the roof needs to be redone. I also do not consider the roof a cost associated with the solar as it is something that was very close to being done anyway whether doing solar or not. I had a mesh system installed around the panels so pigeons could not get under them.
This is interesting. The part about having the roof done where the the panels are to be installed. I drove by a new construction development the other day and here in Cali all new homes must have solar. The roofs of the new houses appear to be especially designed to accommodate the solar system. This sounds pretty obvious, but goes to your point about roof durability. The homes had roofing on them but an open area where the panels were going to be installed. The panels also looked like more of a roof than what we are used seeing with the panels standing proud of the roof by five or six inches. I wonder if this was done to sort of permanatize the panels and leave the rest of the roof available for replacement in future years??
we priced solar last year. About $40K in loans to buy a new system after incentives. We don't get near the sun in northern Utah, so more like a 20 year payback. Just didn't feel like buying a 20 year system with a 20 year payback and a 30 year loan. Be careful, it sounds great, but is it? Maybe, just not for me.
My friend bought a house with a solar lease. He couldn't sell the house. No one could qualify for the house and lease. Then the leasing company went out of business. He lives in Maricopa.
San Diego County here - bought the solar, get credit for excess energy from SDGE, feed the grid with AC blasting, very happy with investment.
Great video! Everything she said is true. I have a grid-tied system in my Prescott home. But my reasoning for installing the system had nothing to do with the bill. It was only about being able to be independent of the grid when it goes down. APS is a scam! They say they pay you less than for your solar because they have to maintain their infrastructure. They completely ignore that YOU also have to maintain your system! My system was installed in 2012. I recently spent over $20k for a new inverter (my original one failed last winter) and new huge capacity batteries which included the labor. And yes, I did replace my roof (insurance covered much of it) with a metal roof. Do your research before jumping in to the solar game. Generally speaking leases are bad for the very reasons she mentions. Solar panels will never be the solution to your expensive bills or to global warming.
If your system is tied to the grid it won't work for you when the grid goes down.
At first, I really bucked at the idea of different rates for buying vs selling KWH. But they are right when you think about it this way. You maintain your "power plant". They maintain their power plant. And all the distribution wiring to get power from anyone's power plant to customers costs money, too.
So are they breaking down that cost fairly when they separate charges for energy (KWH) from distribution? Probably not. But I don't have enough data to prove the correct answer ($ rate) is something lower than they claim.
@@americafirst9144
You can run a switching system for that or use a hybrid solar systems are there too which your solar runs your house and uses grid power to fill the gaps. When the grid goes down you still have your solar and hopefully a battery for backup to fill the gaps that the grid was helping you with. But, if your system is not large enough you still have to monitor your usage and likely not use some appliances if you want to stay cool in the summer
$20K Yikes. That's 135 months of electric bills for me (about 11 years)
Won’t buy grid tied solar because I’m forced into participating in any grid outage in my area. I understand all the safety concerns.
Look for some form of 'transfer switch' to isolate grid when outage occurs.
One advantage of solar panels that no one talks about is that it provides shade for your roof. I noticed a drop in temperature of my attic after having them installed.
Have you ever noticed the sun's effect on black glass? The sun heats the glass.
@@3000secrets Air flows under the glass and removes the heat while a portion of your roof is shaded.
Better get a new roof before you have solar installed.
okkkkkkkkk...
I went with a ground mount system. Less panels were needed due to the ability to orient it more accurately at the path of the sun, it is easier to clean, and installing anything on the roof is asking for trouble. I even piped my wood stove through the wall.
Thank you for an excellent, well researched presentation. I have found that it is extraordinarily difficult to get accurateinformation about the real cost of solar panels. Mostly what you get are fraudulent sales pitches
Your spot on .. I put a new roof on then bought a solar system outright and it’s fantastic zero electric bill . but I don’t see it paying off if you financed or leased your system . Fusion Power was a awesome company from my experience
Glad you liked it. Thanks for watching
Thank you! What a great video! Im a 33 year veteran Real Estate Broker and this is honestly the best video I have ever seen with a simple explanation. At least as simple as it can get for solar. Hope you don't mind I actually saved this. Great Great Video! Well done too!
And I agree with you 1000%
@@Jacqueline_Smith Thanks glad you liked it. Solar can be tricking to explain when it comes to home values... :-)
I live in Colorado with 300 plus days of near full sun. No a/c needed because of cool nights. I bought outright a 10,000 k system which is about 4 years old now professionally installed. It’s been operating flawlessly since installed. I get a credit at years end although the electric only pays a wholesale rate. Installed on a new metal roof. I’m a builder and the last house I built included a 10k system too and it works great.
Your situation is a unique case, so that's different.
I am 72 years old. As a kid I lived in Scottsdale Arizona. What we had for cooling indoor air was a roof cooled water system. Why not go back to using them.
Swamp cooler…..
That can only drop the temp by 10%. So if its 100 deg out maybe you get 90 in the house.
@@cb-gz1vl Absolutely NOT true! Most people have no idea how they work. Most think they use water to cool the air, NO. It is physics, when a liquid changes to a gas it absorbs huge amounts of heat. I have a large one in Bend, Oregon where we routinely run 85-95 temps. all summer. It will freeze you out of this house and adds much need moisture to the air.
@@rondye9398 I live in vegas and have lived in tucson. I have plenty of friends who own them. Evap coolers. They don't do all that much
@@rondye9398 Plus the key word is water. look at Lake mead
Pay up front and bye a maintenance program...
5:35 I think you misspoke. You said they will pay you "point-zero-nine" cents per KWH buy you displayed 0.09 cents which is 9-cents per KWH. Point-zero-nine cents would be 0.0009.
She misspoke about a lot
Installed my own system kept it separated from our land line. We switch over to higher efficiency HVAC, hot water heater & lighting as funds allow. Have 16 KW of solar with 30 KW of battery back up for those gloomy days. All paid for and not on my roof..... Have a little land....well what are you waiting for?
Don't have solar nor have I ever considered it. I thought about most of these problems and costs years ago without investigating the practicality of it. Just a few seconds of looking for a reason why not to solarize is the roof replacement costs, the constant cleaning maintenance and the electrical controls. I once replaced a gas water heater out of necessity. I figured I would go the high efficiency rout that uses the forced air exhaust through PVC pipe. My old heater cost me $7.00 in repairs over the 25 years. This new one had a temp sensor fail every year and a half or so. Had to replace the entire gas valve assembly because of a $20.00 sensor at the average cost of $450.00 each. Mind you I did my own work so no labor cost. $1350.00 in parts over 9 years compared to $7.00 in 25. That $1350 is about what the initial cost of the heater was. A conventional gas heater was about $800.00. That was about $1850 cost difference from a conventional heater. You say but what about the carbon footprint? Let me tell you, after the 3 repairs the carbon footprint for the manufacture of the new valves including the shipping from overseas I am positive was much greater than that high efficiency heater would have ever saved. Weather it is money savings or carbon savings all we do is shift where we spend them. It always ends up costing the same.
only way to go solar is to know what can be done easier with gas (space heat,water heat, furnace.) i've been 100% solar -offgrid- for 12 years now.
Bought a home in 1995, North County, San Diego. The gas water heater was installed in '91. My wife replaced it 2021 but it was still working fine. Never flushed it once in 30 years. Reliance was the brand name.
"Carbon footprint" is a lie. Carbon dioxide is not a greenhouse gas. It is approximately neutral to global temperature.
And there is no man-made, or even natural cycles driven climate change happening now anyway. The planet is cooling, and has been for years. We're headed straight into a mini ice age right now,based on entirely natural cycles. Which is far worse than global warming.
Humans, as well as the entire ecosystem of the entire planet, absolutely thrive during periods of global warming anyway. It is what we're heading into right now, which is global cooling, that we don't handle well at all.
It's been 5 months now since I ask my reps for the charging station specs so I can have a charge port in my electric motorcycle I am building. biden is forcing me to install the things, the least they can do is tell you what is required to use them.
The cleaning and heat are the reasons I went with putting them on the ground.
Shame copper prices skyrocketed. A copper roof would make a nice heatsink.
Never considered it, yet looking at Solar YT Videos for reasons to 'reconsider it'? No loss of credibility there 😂😂
i dont have solar... i am wondering if you own your system outright and have a Battery like the Tesla wall unit. as you are producing your own electric and the electric companies grids absorbs what extra electricity you produce... do you only receive just credits or do they send you a check for the extra electric they draw from your system ???
I put a tesla solar system on my place in California - 10.8 KW. It zeroed out my electrical bill, including charging the car. $18000 after the tax break. It paid for itself in 3.5 years - and was a huge selling point (zero energy bill house) when I sold the house . so yeah - it was the smartest decision I ever made.
Power is very expensive in California and you probably have net metering. Here in Phoenix power is much cheaper and there is no net metering, excess energy is sold back to the utility company at a much cheaper rate.
@@RockLee855 That's likely the case. In New Mexico they pay 1/3 of the rate they charge customers.
Your math does not match the experience of many others - who happen to be disgusted with their solar array!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@@DanielA23 Do you regret having bought the solar system as so many people now seem to have done?????????
Certainly any numbers produced by actual users of solar systems in the real world do not encourage us to buy LIE-beral mouldy green technology - with the information in this video simply confirming the SOUR EXPERIENCES of solar panel owners!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And the related experience of Brits with heat pumps - in that relatively mild British climate STRONGLY SUGGESTS that only a SUCKER would buy a heat pump and expect savings in the more extreme North American climate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@@abellseaman4114 I understand this discussion was all about piling on to the evils of solar power. sorry if my experience does not match up to your bashing of solar. I researched this pretty carefully. My house is an ICF house with a SIPS panel. (Very VERY energy efficient) heated with radiant heat powered by solar water heater, cooling is swamp coolers - and i have splits in 3 rooms if i need or want AC. when I went looking for a company to put it up - they all wanted to put in a 7.5 kw system - I chose Tesla because they would do what I wanted - 10.8, and were far cheaper than anyone else per KW. essentially i "bank" my excess with the power company - and get credit at the higher rate for the extra. I had a lot of excess. in one case when the system went down during covid and we waited for a part - the system did not operate for 2 months - and my "banked" excess more than covered that. sorry if that doesn't help you bash the evils of solar power - but the numbers speak for themselves. in my case - its been an excellent investment - and its making me money every month. You cannot get that deal in Ca anymore - power companies pushed through changes so excess isn't banked or worth anything - but my agreement is grandfathered in - which makes the house even more valuable.
In my state the contractors insist on 25 Year Lease, @$100.00 or more per month "Maintenance Fee", and THEY TAKE any rebates, power kickbacks, Incentives as part of the deal. Take it or leave it. Home buyers don't want solar so housing with solar is depressed on the market. Current power was less than $100.00 ($65 to $95 per month) Last bill was $125.00. Then there is the matter of Roof Shingles warranty only 20 to 25 years.
Only one thing you forgot,when you put a 25k-40k solar system on your house it's like putting a car on your roof what insurance company is NOT going to raise your homeowners insurance rate.
Good point, thanks!
I live in southern Nevada and there is absolutely no way I would ever put solar on my home. All of your reasons and more.
Interesting, you did not mention SRP. Which if you live in the Valley of the sun ( Phoenix). Most of the valley is SRP. What I Also found out, (I just had solar put on in June of 2023. ) is the half trues of the solar company tells you. One being , peak KWh .I was told I’ll being making 5.7 kWh. True it will be making 5.7 KWh of DC electricity. Will you home is AC not DC. So the inverter makes it from DC to AC, and you loss about 16%. Next half true. Tax refund from federal and state. We did a load on ours, 25 year, you can pay it off early. But they tell you your payments will be $120 a month. Will only if you give all your return to the load in the first two years. You will never see that loan payment. As probably everyone has seen or heard. If you in in Arizona solar is free. Yea right. They make is sound like it’s free, truth is the loan payment is less that what you would be paying the electric company. So is it free…… one other thing , SRP has it setup you can not go 100% off the grid.( at least that is what was told to me by the solar company). You can only go 80% off the grid. And SRP, puts you on a special plan. KW, rates are a little higher and their hit you with a peak demand rate. I’ve never heard of that before. But it makes up about 1/3 of the charge. The bottom line is if everyone knows your going to save some money, they still what a share. 😂
Thank you so much for pointing out the flaws in thinking about placing solar panels on a home. You might add that if you are retired or no longer receiving wages, then all the government incentives may be of little help in reducing the initial cost of solar. For retirees like myself, it does not make financial sense to purchase solar panels to reduce my utility bills. It would be better for me to find ways to reduce my energy usage such as installing energy efficient appliances or replacing less efficient or older ones.
There is an additional cost that wasn't mentioned, the monthly service fee from the utility company. The permits can be a major headache as well. There is always a back and forth between the county code and the installers. Also, the utility company will limit the amount of solar produced electric that you can put on your roof. Outside of soaring electric rates or no energy at all, solar isn't worth it. You will loose big time if rates start to decline for some reason. Another solution is to have the solar panels not on the roof if you have the property.
Another thing that wasn't mentioned was batteries. Very expensive. Sooner or later the bank on producing power will go away. The times you most need power isn't when the sun is shining, at least where I live.
I am off grid with regards to the power company. I have some solar and wind. I am still building out the system as money and time allows. I am installing it myself which saves substantially on instillation costs. If you don't know what you're doing, you could end up burning the house down. That could happen anyway with batteries. They do catch fire. And of course your insurance will go up. The cost of buying the parts separately is about the same as buying a complete system. There are varying amounts of energy and batteries. So do your homework if you do this.
Interesting, as an accountant and financial/economic analyst, I am happy you are sharing your analysis.
The recoup cost is what people don't take into account. If you pay $30k up front, how many years of savings do you have to go through to make up the difference. Might as well just pay the electric company $30k up front.
Also on resale, if you pay $30k up front for solar and maybe can ask $10k more for the house, that's not a savings.
Solar is like buying a $60k Tesla to replace your $4k used toyota camry cause you want to save money on gas.
I don't know about Az, but in Florida, insurance companies are dropping customers with solar panels on their roofs. If you get the solar you need to shop homeowners insurance to find a company who covers solar.
Buy the entire system, inverter, battery, panels and go off-grid. Don't install them on the house (panels on a stanchion in the yard) so you can take them with you over the next 40 years. Learn to install and operate everything yourself. Save the environment. Yes you'll need $30K for most homes. Always spend a lot more of battery so you've got 7 days of energy on a full charge. This method leaves the existing electric when you sell the house.
You need to check your area and the local power system requirements.
plus ground mount is safer to operate AND maintain (if you have the space)
I've been a metro Phoenix area resident for 47 years (watched your pros & cons on moving to Phoenix) This vid is 2 years old but I just ran across it by accident recently (June 2024). Your take on solar validates my thinking in our case. Our home is a single story Shea tract home just shy of 2,100 sf, built in 2002. We're 2nd owners, purchased from original owners in 2009. I know enough about concrete tile roofs that their expected life span is +/-25 years. It's not the tiles that give out but the tar paper underlayment. Our 2 unit A/C system was also original builder installed R-22 'gas pack'. Well, you know what's going on with R-22, mainly it's obsolete, out of production, and getting scarcer and more expensive every year. So we opted to replace and upgrade A/C units to higher efficiency variable speed Bosch heat pumps, doing away with gas heat and claim the tax credits. Also upgraded 20 year old single speed pool pump motor to variable speed motor. We are in APS territory and I just checked my May & June 2024 bills, and the combined usage dollar amount compared to May-June 2023 was $175 less this year than last. The big reason for holding back on solar was age of the roof. Will likely need to re-do the roof within the next few years if not sooner. We're retirees in our 70s, so may not be around long enough to 'break even' on a purchased solar system nor do we want the have a lien on the home for leased solar. We plan to stay in the home as long as we're able, but that won't be much more than 10 or 15 years at best. By then, assuming we're still alive, we could sell the house (we own outright), take the money and go into independent/assisted living for our remaining years.
I agree with Theo - Great points!! As I'm sure you know, the incentives are different this year (2023) than when you made the video. People interested in adding Solar should check out what they are at the time they are considering it. Also, you could make the point that what utility serves them makes a difference. I am in the SRP service area, and they still do net metering at the current retail price. Again 2023. Politics and Utility Boards all can make changes, so just check whenever considering. Thanks for the video share!
You're right the incentives do change so people should check them out. Thanks for watching
Yes I agree. I have been in the energy savings business for a much longer time! When the govt. had no incentives. The only way solar is able to be considered these days is because it is subsidized by the govt. Taking the tax break away and it makes no sense as it is only the tax break that helps keep this scheme going.
@@126678 Funny thing is, when you take the tax breaks away, the price mysteriously goes down.
Just installed my system.... myself! cost me around 18,500 all in permits 30 panels (270 watts) with microinverters, wiring and labor (hired random electrical workers to help me with the wiring) everything else I did myself. My offset is 5-7 years.
I live in FL in a 3700 square foot home. My electric bills range from $150 to $250 throughout the year. The best-case scenario is that it would take me about 12 years to break even.
maybe less in florida due to uv content of the sun in that area. Ive lived offgrid for 12 years now and quality of light isnt just lack of cloudcover.
@@maddhatter3564 how could it be less? $30,000 cash for Solar panels divided by an average bill of $200 is 12.5 years. Do the math. If we were in our 30s or 40s, it wouldn’t be a bad investment, but we’re in our 50s, so it doesn’t make sense.
@@JamesK1963 go troll someone who hasnt actually done it for 12 years.
@@maddhatter3564 that’s hysterical. It’s 3rd grade math. It’s not that complicated. $30,000 cost for panels. $200 a month for electricity. 30,000 / 200 = 150 months. 150 months / 12 months in a year = 12.5 years. That’s how long it would take to break even.
Hi beautiful
I really liked this one (this video) because you are the only one that I have seen analyzing and clearly outputting the result of solar system hypes going on in the area.
I live in Florida and my electric bill is always less then $100. I have a 3 bedroom, 2 bath and 2 car garage house. Hence there is no reason for me to get solar.
I don't understand what your saying for my mind does not function right. So If I don't understand I don't buy things. Figured that I just go with electric company. I do have money to pay it in cash. Don't do debt; just cash.
Great video, only thing Id mention is majority of companies will still maintain the system for 25 years if you decide to finance or pay cash out right for ownership So even if the homeowner decides to own opposed to lease their system they will still be under a 25 year warranty
Regarding Warranties. If you sign a lease or PPA with a solar company they might maintain part or all the system. If you purchase the system yourself then you are responsible. It depends on which solar company you sign with and the terms of the contract.
But the point she made is, what do you do 3 years down the road, when the installing company suddenly disappears? This happens in other trades a lot.
I cannot imagine these panels will last 25 years to pay off a lease. What do you receive if after 17 years the panels are all shot? New panels, pro-rate, what? Now, some new, most old, junk the whole system?
@@rondye9398 companies will replace the whole system for you if needed all have a 25 year warranty plus a 25 year production guarantee meaning they have to produce at least 95% of what they produce the first year or else they’ll replace all the panels
@@jacklitz6024 Hopefully this is true, but I'm always skeptical. Ae you in the business?
Interesting take. Here’s mine. When I installed solar on my roof I also had a new roof installed, so I wouldn’t have to do it later. The bill for the roof and 24 panels was $34000.00. Ygrene financed the project. It was a 30 year loan. At the end of the 30 years I would have paid Ygrene $82000.00. Calculating my electric bill at an average of $250.00 per month (summer & winter combined) I would have paid FPL $122000.00 over the same 30 year period, assuming FPL never raised their rates. (In the time since I installed the solar panels FPL has raised their rates TWICE). So for me this was a no-brainer. Give FPL $122000.00 plus over 30 years, or give Ygrene $82000.00 over the same time frame. (In case you are wondering, I plug in my electric car and crank my a/c to the max but I have no electric bill)
I bought a plug and play 5000W Solar Inverter Off Grid system $700 ebay, bought 10 used 250w Panels 2.5kw from Santan $45 each total $450, 48v lifepo4 25AH battery $200 and wiring $100 TOTAL $1450. My electric bill for the past 3 years has been no higher than $50 a month it used to be $120 to $300. DIY if you can and save yourself 15k I almost forgot get a permit I think it was $200 including inspection
Wow, that's amazing!
Thanks for the advice!!
Do it yourself people can save money!
I drive a Bolt because the numbers made sense. I did not install solar because I couldn't make the numbers work. I live in the sticks so I think in a few years a ground mounted system with battery will make sense if I disconnect from the grid.
Great information. Many things to consider before going solar. Another problem I have seen is roof damage by the solar installers not discovered until several years later. Concrete/clay tile roofs are especially vulnerable to damage just from installers walking on them.
Absolutely, as a handyman I feel so bad for an elderly woman who's home, with a tile roof, had a rather severe leak and there was not a lot that could be done with the solar panels covering the suspected area.