Very nicely executed Stefan! I am glad you are happy with the solid tool post mount performance. I think you will find that you rarely miss the compound. Thanks for mentioning/linking my videos. ATB, Robin
Stefan, thank you for taking the time to document all the improvements that you have done, Robin is a true master in a machine shop, with you not far behind. People like you make it possible for home shop machinists like myself to learn new techniques, and improve our skills, thank you once again
Thank you Stefan for all the inspiring videos. I had the pleasure to copy your micrometer stop, a lovely little device. I built a knurled brass nut on the top, which I can block easily with my fingers, avoiding the fiddling with the grub screw.
Ive been watching all your videos. I really like your work. Im glad people like you, Tony, Robbin, ox, Adam the list goes on, are sharing with all of us. Deep respect for all of you who are willing to put it out there. Keep up the good work.
I've always been really impressed with Robin's attention to design details and how to get the very best out of the equipment he has as well Stefan. He's an extremely smart and very experienced machinist. Both of you are in fact. And whoever the programmer was who decided those 10 button pushes to access the tool memory would be a good idea obviously never ran a machine tool before. :-(
Stefan, good day. I appreciate your clever solutions regarding your way cover and also your carriage stop. I plan on putting both items on my lathe to do list. Stay well.
If you look at the comments on these videos, you are looking at craftsmen who are some of the most clever, accomplished, enthusiastic, & keepers of " older wisdom" alive today. Many are likely decendents of the Ruhr Valley , Germany, and Greenfiel Illinoise,USA. The combined knowledge should be kept alive. Thank you for posting to You Tube! May the force be with you.
The micrometer stop looks like a great use for extra mikes that accumulate from broken sets bought used. Nice job on the stop, it looks like it has a very nice feel.
I can see how the solid mount for the tool post would be a good idea for the rigidity but do you think between not having the compound and having a locked position for the tool post you are going to have constant frustrations with angles? you can easily cut tapers or put a specific angle on a part via the compound. Also have you tried threading with that? Does your lathe have any issues with plunging a thread form tool at 0 degrees or does it work out because of the rigidity of the solid mount? I'd like to try it if so. I should have asked this to Robin when he released his video but.. I don't have a hardinge HLV-H.. although my machine is quite big I still think his machine is built better so problems he may not have I thought I may still have with a 2000kg 16x40 lathe.
Tapers can still be cut with a taper attachment. Threading can still be accomplished independently of angle. Forming tapers can be more tricky this way however. This isn't the best setup for cutting threads, threads typically aren't as precision work as this setup is intended to accomplish.
Threading with straight infeed has proven not to be a problem at all - I was concerned with that too, but with a properly honed and sharp tool it works just fine, at least in common materials. Short/Small tapers are possible with form tools, for long/slim tapers I can use an offset-center and turn the part between centers in the tailstock and for very steep tapers I can get the compound back on. And nice thing is, as I have t-slots in the cross slide, I just have to remove the top cover with two screws and drop the compound on the rear end of the cross slide. For most tasks that would be good enough :)
Stefan Gotteswinter I have a t-slotted cross slide as well and figured that would be you answer. I'm not sure what you have on the go for your next video but if you could show some threading with it I would appreciate it.. although I likely will just make the same setup as you have and try it out on my machine to see how it holds up. with your way covers - do you have any concern about the chuck picking it up and wrapping it around at higher speeds or does the carriage appear to pull off if that did happen? I've always had that concern with lathes and flexible way covers. keep up the videos dude, I only have like 5 subscriptions and yours I really enjoy watching.
AFriendlyMathematician I would think this would in face be the best setup for rigidity when cutting threads as long as your machine is capable of the full form cutting
Hmm... I commented on other videos I think the first major weak link is the quick change tool system. It adds a significant tool overhang etc. I am eliminating mine in favor of a solid post (along with goodbye to the compound) and use shim plates. We had a great VDF from 1955 which had a factory original 4-position indexing tool holder exactly matching the compound footprint and thus, leading the forces into the machine the right way. In fact because it (the solid toolpost) can be designed from the ground up it is also possible to settle on an exact shim height (5 mm for example) first measuring the exact center height. I think removing the compound is great but one needs auto feed and cutoff by hard stop/ clutch. In fact we have a German lathe which came with several hard stops, both micro adjustable and 6-position revolver type. It goes even one step further with the "Trommelanschlag' mounted low on the front of the machine and allows stops anywhere along the axial direction of the machine. For repeating tool position I consider an adjustable hard stop referencing the back side of the tool so that at least a tool can be swapped and placed back accurately. This also may be executed as a small revolver.
The slight loss in stiffness of a QCTP is easily outweighted by the immense speed of toolchange. I have parts where I change tools multiple times a minute, and thats only viable with a QCTP. We had on our VDF at work a Multifix B and it never felt like a weak spot in the machine.
@@StefanGotteswinter LOL, I am probably overshooting this whole rigidity thing... you as all of our kind know we can get very obsessed with certain things once zoomed in. The chain is as strong as the weakest link and I realize there is always a next area to look at. In fact the Gema lathes are well built but not super rigid. In fact all my Gemas (4 of them :)) have a gap bed which is a rigidity killer in itself. Talking rigidity, our mill arrived yesterday, a WMW-Heckert FWU 315*800. Boy am I stoked about this machine.
Thanks Stefan, I'd seen Robin's video and also others advocating a solid tool post. I re-scraped my top slide, and while it's quite accurate the whole lathe is a bit of a joke and I think would benefit hugely from any rigidity improvements. I will make a point of replacing it now.
Thanks for sharing Stefan. I bought my lathe and DRO together as they are so useful. I like the solid tool post because the compound does not get used that much so is a good upgrade. Micrometer depth stop also looks good too. I guess you had to find the perfect clamp handle position (on vs off), then drill the set screw in the right radial position? I have a micrometer body in the draw doing nothing so will add it to the long list . . . regards UK
You inspired me to build one for my china lathe as well. I did a couple vids on it. Mine didnt turn out as pretty as yours, but Im not a German machinist, Im just a humble hobbyist.
I scaled off that stop the first time I saw it. I don't think stupid is a good word to use on this entire channel!! Maybe fiddly. But that is a great stop. I bought a head just like that a few years ago with this very idea in mind. Now I need to do it. Thank you!!
Thanks very much for your excellent videos Stefan. I’m not sure about the rest of your viewers but I’m very much a beginner at all this. I’m wondering if you could do a video or two on the things one needs to start a Home workshop. I’m contemplating the purchase of a small lathe and a mill. But I don’t know what the essential requirements as opposed to the nice to have but not essential. The sort of projects I’ll be working on are making things for the workshop, I would rather make than buy, and you’ve already given lots of ideas. Once I’m competent I’d like to make parts for elderly motorcycles and for my electronics and robotics projects. I’ve already built a 3D printer and an engraving machine, and I’m good with microcontrollers. But I want to learn more about the metalwork side. Lastly your English is excellent, your videos are pretty easy to follow even for someone like me.
Depending on your lathe size, consider hitting the thrift stores for something like a leather bag, or even a small chair. You can get the leather you need for a minute fraction of the price.
aserta Great idea! I especially like the bag idea because it will probably already be nice and pliable. I've been meaning to hit up a Tandy Leather near my work for some scraps for my vise jaws, but now I think I'll go to a thrift store instead. Thanks!!
Copy of my comment at Robrenz' channel: You present an interesting albeit radical approach to increase rigidity. The manual of the original Swiss Multifix QCTP (e.g. used by Abom79 in his home shop) mentions that in case of high tangential loads the fixed part should be mounted using 2 dowel pins in addition to the big threaded post. That should take care of pushing the post away by tangential loads. The repeatability of the original Multifix is known to be excellent. Instead of removing the compound you could make it more rigid by using the tapered gib to lock it. Or with a straight gib tighten all lateral adjustment bolts to lock it down in order to increase the rigidity. Readjusting the gib is still quicker than putting the removed compound back in place. After those alternative, less radical methods your approach only has one advantage left which is the angled surfaces to make the chips fall away easily. In that respect your approach is really neat. A short bristled brush is the next best solution for those who don't want to blow the chips off.
@@StefanGotteswinter Regarding the dial indicator having a hard life under the chuck, I addressed this by mounting a long travel indicator to the right side of the carriage with its spindle extending further to the right of the carriage past the zone of the tailstock, and the tip of the probe engaging against a sliding stop clamped to the front slidway of the bed. This has several other advantages: there is unlimited space so a long travel (50mm or 100mm) indicator can be used, with a big dial (more suited to a big lathe), also the indicator counts down as the carriage moves leftwards, so you can work to a null (zero) target, which is easier and less risky than trying to stop at a given reading, especially when using rapid power feed. My indicator is metric reading in 0.01mm, but it engages with a inch-graduated micrometer head like your revised stop, so if I happen to be working on an "inches" component, I don't have to consult a conversion chart. A long travel indicator is preferable, because otherwise it's too easy to wind the carriage rightwards past the inwards travel limit of the indicator, which would eventually result in damage. I suppose a protective tube could be fitted which would bottom out just before the spindle ran out of travel.
I only recognized after my second view of this video that you cannot mount a follow rest with this new tool post setup and the new shrouds wrapping almost all of the cross slide and carriage.
Argh! Scraping class in Denmark and kinda close to me... and I have to go to Finland. Oh well, hope you share some of the knowledge you gained at the course.
Hi Stefan, You may not be aware but the rigid tool post has been described many years ago in a book called "Simple Workshop Devices" by "Tubal Cain", no not Mr Pete from the US, the tool post is called the Gibraltar tool post, castings were available for the 7 series Myford lathes, interesting to check out. Cheers Raymond
I cannot speak for him, but it can be done strictly by way of the cross slide. The downside is you are not advancing the cutter depth on the same plane as the thread face, makes for a kind of stepped face, but it does work. Hell I have seen videos of guys who go through the trouble of setting the compound to 29.5 and then do all there depth adjustments on the cross slide, why? I don't know, but again it works.
At 6 min 55 sec, you mention that the parting tool is 1.6mm wide ... that's awfully close to 1/16". I wonder if some cheaper manufactures take the same stock and relabel it for different markets. It would be interesting to see if some 1.6mm blades actually mic'd to 1.5875 or conversely if a 1/16" blade mic'd to 1.6mm.
Nice toolpost mount. May i ask why you made a stopper plate? I made a solid mount for my hbm lathe too and it increased the rigdidity ALOT. Have not experienced any slippage. Relatively quick to change between solid and topslide for doing threads and tapers. Have to go and buy leather now :)
Once to secure it against rotation when using it for drilling and second to have it indexed if I have to take it of and put it on the lathe back again (like I did for the video), no indicator needed to get it in line again :)
Hi Brian, strictly from a rigidity standpoint the performance increase of the solid tool post starts to diminish as the lathe gets bigger and the machine quality goes up. You probably would not see much improvement on your lathe. But when you have a digital readout with a tool table. You will go nuts with your tool offsets getting trashed every time the compound moves linearly or angularly.
I always run my compound cranked in till it locks up. I find my tools repeat there within .0005" +-. I have never fooled with programming any of the tool offsets in the DRO. I set my tool stick outs so all my tools cut the same diameter for a given setting. That fixes one axis but still the position along the part varies. Touching off and resetting 0 is usually good enough for the rough work that I do.
ROBRENZ Probably explains why my machine never turns to the same size after zeroing the cross slide readout - probably the compound moving a round or loading up differently each cut . I can also see the merit in having the tool post locked and clocked to the lathe axis , makes tool setting and change over a breeze provided all of the tool holders have been set to a zero datum.
Great video. Thanks for posting. Can you tell me why the nut to hold the tool post in place is so long? It looks like 5cm or more. Do you use that for clamping an indicator or something? I'm sure you had a good reason, just can't guess what it is.
Very nice work but I have two questions. The first , is does a tool holder fit on perpendicular to the spindle as well as parallel to it for boring operations? Secondly, I noticed that your lead screw has a cover, have you made a previous video on that?
- Google for the tripan toolholder - The boring bar holders are 30° angled. - The cover is stock, the lathe came with it. But I have seen people make them by wrapping shimstock around a piece of round steel, heat it up and let it cool down, then you get such a spiral form.
Hi Stefan. Thanks for sharing. I recall Robin in his video said that the amount of preload to his rigid tool post setup was so high that he had to scrape the bottom of his toolpost mounting block flat because of deformation from his set screw preload. Any thoughts or guesses to rigidity gains from even using more preload than offsetted dowels? Great vid. Thanks to you and Robin!
One question. By using a 3 axis mill DRO set for radius does it allow you to rough out larger radii prior to finishing with form tools by using either the drill pattern or arc functions on the readout. Nice covers for the DRO glass scales or magnetic if that's what they are. I've mounted scales on lathes before and the Cross Slide was always the "problem child" in terms of keeping everything clean. Too bad you didn't have a micrometer head from a depth mic on hand. That way you wouldn't have to look at it upside down :D Have to admit I still prefer a mechanical type readout like a Trav-a-Dial to a DRO on a lathe. I find it easier to watch the position come up with a needle sweeping over the dial versus numbers flickering on a DRO. Old school I guess
Hm. I wonder if i could mimic this upside down so i can mount it on the other side of my slide, i kind of want to keep my compound. Or maybe swap them, tho then i'd have to stay on the other side to work the slide. Still, the idea has merit, and certainly the execution is top notch. It's insane how much 'wiggle' all those bits give, and how rigid the setup looked even on camera. I really like the leather aprons/covers. Currently i'm rocking all metal covers, but it's a bit of a PITA especially with the one on my side, sometimes i catch the corners with my wrist if i'm not careful.
Joe Pieczynski has some very interesting videos on "straight in threading" and other nice methods similar to what you have explained.He covers threading in great detail and it dovetails nicely with your video.Thank's so much fur diese gutes auskumft.
Very well thought out and executed. I've always wondered about the lathe itself. Forgive me if you've already answered this question, but is this a chinese lathe or is it manufactured in Europe? It runs so smoothly that the sound is almost relaxing. Is this caused by the microphone, the quality of the lathe, or some application of magic in the drive train? Thanks for another great video.
I watched Robin's video on the fixed tool post and really like the added stiffness of the cross slide. My problem is, I have a 9x20 lathe, similar to your old lath and there is no vernier movement in the z-axis when you remove the compound. The handwheel operates a rack and pinion gear to move the cross slide and I don't know if there is a fine enough control of the z-axis. Also, the pinion gear is made of chinesium and there seems to be a lot of backlash (slop) in the gear. I was thinking of making a more precise pinion gear to remove the BL but the turn ratio of the wheel is still pretty low. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Hi Stefan. I have a similar DRO. The resolution is always quoted, but never the accuracy. Have you ever checked the DRO against gauge blocks? Enjoy the videos. Regards AlanB
The scales came with a test report - I would trust the report farther than I could throw it, but tested against gage blocks, everything matched up, at least up to 100mm distances of travel.
Great video. DROs are addictive :). The only thing is I feel a little sad for your beautifully made cross feed dial. :(. 0:08, you need to start eating more bacon.
Stefan, can you tell anything about the solidity of the mount with hammer taps. I.e., a more solid mount should have a different sound. It might make a quick and dirty check of standard mounts or to see or rather hear if all is well with your mount if it has been disturbed (R&R ed)
How do you thread without compound slide? Robin R. uses a solid toolpost on his Hardinge Lathe. Hardinge lathes are top of he line machines. I am pretty sure Robins lathe has a taper attachment. IMO solid tool post is over kill an reduces the number of turning operations possible. I wld like to see a solid toolpost threading video. How wld you cut multiply start an lead threads with a solid toolpost?
Usualy I do threads that are either very fine pitched and in materials that are easy to single thread like toolsteels or titanium, no problem to do straight infeed threading. For multi-start threads I put the compound on, behind the solid toolpost and use that.
Lederhosen for the weeways LOL. You could perhaps add a 10 button press generator using an small microcontroller hacked into the keypad since Robin's mods really comes alive with stored tool offsets.
Thanks Stefan for the video, this looks like a pretty nice set up. I remember the video Robin did on his lathe and you asking him I think about threading without the compound. I was wondering if you could tell us which DRO you purchased? Just to save some viewers some headaches with perhaps buying the wrong one. It’s nice to hear someone recommend a particular product now and then. Thanks.
Oh, now that's interesting. So that holder actually is canted to compensate for the acute angle of the holder. Neat. BTW, your videos are great! Keep up the good work!
Despite the elaborate work you normally do, you made the lathe look like a mess! Looks like something they'd build in an A Team episode. You should have got a DRO with magnetic scales, they're tiny & just need a very small ali angle to cover them
Hi Stefan,I am a new subscriber of yours learning how to post ect.I own an older Prazi 10x20 lathe which I have owned for about 15 yrs. now.I would guess since this was made in Germany you may have seen one like this or very similar.I have been in touch with Robin who is a fan of yours as well and he gave me some great advise about my build eliminating the crosslide on my Prazzi.I think this should make a huge help for the efficiency of the Prazzi.Stefan I wonder if you are in fact aware of my Prazi machine?I would feel that your lathe is very similar in many ways as my Prazi.Stefan,I would appreciate some advise.I wonder if you think I could double the power from the original 750W motor to maybe 1500W or somewhere close to that?My Prazi is referred to as a AD500 precision lathe,DLZ450x180.I would say the internal gears are at least metal,and maybe hardened.The lathe comes with extra gears mainly for the threading process,but my machine seems robust enough to make the change.The cross slide resembles yours very much and of course would benefit by removing the crosslide and re doing the tool holder as described by Robin and you as well.Stefan I would appreciate any thoughts about this.Finally,can you point me to a website where I might find some nice used Swiss or German milling machines?I find many of your machines are many times on the smaller size of our huge Bridgeport type but offer many more features.I do plan a trip to your area in the near future and would love to come home with such a gem.Your small surface grinder,Ideal for me.I have seen some great examples of multi purpose mills as well.Thanks Stefan for any advise you could give me.Stefan I am one of your newest fans,and have seen all of your posts with great interest.I was explaining in an earlier post about spending many years in graduate school to become a "DOC" of sorts,but I failed to mention,trying to learn machine work is the absolute hardsest thing I have ever attempted.I have found this is an ongoing challenge for me and inspite of it all and all the major blunders I keep on going.I salute all you do to share your knowledge with anyone willing to learn .Thanks very much,Fred
@@StefanGotteswinter thanks, yes 1.4301. I'll try with an actual coolant, been using a mix of engine oil and kerosene with positive rake dcmt inserts. They dull easily and I suspect I'm dealing with work hardening.
I'm going through your videos again, and I still say wow (in a good way) to myself every 5 minutes or so. One thing you may want to consider is mounting a stepper motor to the nut on top of your tool post to solve the thread engagement time problem and use reverse to get it to throw everything a foot in the air You could then install dro there to solve your empty readout problem. You would know when the nut is almost tight and also prepare you to catch the tool post and stepper motor when it's ejected. Keep up the good work! By the way, did the leather come from an old pair of chaps?
Stefan, I can't thank you enough for all the knowledge and insight you're sharing. Very recently, I purchased an Alexander 3A (English version of the Deckel GK12). It would benefit from your ER11 spindle conversion. Is there any chance you'd consider doing a video on the making of one of those spindles? Thanks Again!
Hi Stefan, I like the leather gaurds , sure works better than rubber and it comes off easily for cleaning ! Did you do a video about the tailstock hand wheel ?
As far as I know they came with Stefan's lathe. Mine had them as well but between the mounting collars at each end and the depth of the cover such as when it's moved in tight to the headstock or towards the tailstock you do lose quite a bit of carriage travel. Around 7.5" (190 mm) on mine if I remember correctly. And with mine installed it wouldn't allow me to get a tool up tight to the faceplate without excessive tool extension. There a good idea and work well if your willing to give up that amount of carriage travel.
The screw cover is stock - But you can get those spring steel covers from industrial suppliers in different dimensions. But you loose quite a bit of travel with them.
Custom angle (notched) plates could be added to add 30 degrees or other angles. Perhaps replace the screws with dowel pins so the angle plate can be quickly swapped. But I do see a disadvantage of losing the ability to cut tapers using the cross slide :(
Seeing as you're making a solid toolpost holder anyway, you didn't think it was worth making it shorter and using a more rigid toolholder than the Tripan holder? As I recall you had a multifix holder that you considered too large for the lathe.
I think the tripan is as rigid as it can get for such a small machine - And has the advantage of the simple geometry for the toolholders, I made all of my holders but one myself and I plan to do another batch of ten this year :D The A-size multifix is to large for this machine, yes. Today Pewetools sells sizes between the tiny AA and the A holder, but those are non-standard.
Hi Stefan Du kannst auch wenn der Display hochfährt, also wenn er Strom erhält in den Adjusting Modus drücken. Selbe Taste, frag mich ned welche weiss ich grad nicht. Aber wenn er hochfährt zählt er ja von 0-10. Meiner macht das zumindest. Versuchs mal. Dort kann man auch die Teilungen anderst rechnen lassen aber das ist eher schlecht als recht, meiner Erfahrung nach. Ich arbeite nur noch mit absoluten Werten, für mich simpler. Grüsse
"1.6 mm wide cutoff blade". I just love you "metric" guys. THAT'S 1/16" in case you didn't know. But keep working in metric. It's easier that way, isn't it? Anyway, the tool post mount is nice. Now I will watch the rest of the video.
Very nicely executed Stefan! I am glad you are happy with the solid tool post mount performance. I think you will find that you rarely miss the compound. Thanks for mentioning/linking my videos.
ATB, Robin
Thank you Robin! Total happy with it.
nice upgrades. except dressing the lathe in black leather.. ;)
Haha ;)
This Old Tony
Haha :D
Oh man i love you :D
I know, it should have been white leather! LoL!
expensive material. First Bugattis had also black leather on their seat. He has a nice taste! ;)
Some guys like black leather
Stefan, thank you for taking the time to document all the improvements that you have done, Robin is a true master in a machine shop, with you not far behind. People like you make it possible for home shop machinists like myself to learn new techniques, and improve our skills, thank you once again
I am always glad when people find something usefull in my videos :)
Thank you Stefan for all the inspiring videos. I had the pleasure to copy your micrometer stop, a lovely little device. I built a knurled brass nut on the top, which I can block easily with my fingers, avoiding the fiddling with the grub screw.
Ive been watching all your videos. I really like your work. Im glad people like you, Tony, Robbin, ox, Adam the list goes on, are sharing with all of us. Deep respect for all of you who are willing to put it out there. Keep up the good work.
Great video, i saw Robins video on his modification to his hardinge, but you sold me on doing this same thing to my lathe. thanks
I've always been really impressed with Robin's attention to design details and how to get the very best out of the equipment he has as well Stefan. He's an extremely smart and very experienced machinist. Both of you are in fact. And whoever the programmer was who decided those 10 button pushes to access the tool memory would be a good idea obviously never ran a machine tool before. :-(
I found a workaround - I dont use the tool memory, but the 99 coordinate systems, those are easy to access with one button push and easy to set.
Stefan, good day. I appreciate your clever solutions regarding your way cover and also your carriage stop. I plan on putting both items on my lathe to do list. Stay well.
If you look at the comments on these videos, you are looking at craftsmen who are some of the most clever, accomplished, enthusiastic, & keepers of " older wisdom" alive today. Many are likely decendents of the Ruhr Valley , Germany, and Greenfiel Illinoise,USA. The combined knowledge should be kept alive. Thank you for posting to You Tube! May the force be with you.
The micrometer stop looks like a great use for extra mikes that accumulate from broken sets bought used. Nice job on the stop, it looks like it has a very nice feel.
I can see how the solid mount for the tool post would be a good idea for the rigidity but do you think between not having the compound and having a locked position for the tool post you are going to have constant frustrations with angles? you can easily cut tapers or put a specific angle on a part via the compound. Also have you tried threading with that? Does your lathe have any issues with plunging a thread form tool at 0 degrees or does it work out because of the rigidity of the solid mount? I'd like to try it if so.
I should have asked this to Robin when he released his video but.. I don't have a hardinge HLV-H.. although my machine is quite big I still think his machine is built better so problems he may not have I thought I may still have with a 2000kg 16x40 lathe.
kmpnelson I have same questions...how do you thread? or cut tapers?
Tapers can still be cut with a taper attachment. Threading can still be accomplished independently of angle. Forming tapers can be more tricky this way however. This isn't the best setup for cutting threads, threads typically aren't as precision work as this setup is intended to accomplish.
Threading with straight infeed has proven not to be a problem at all - I was concerned with that too, but with a properly honed and sharp tool it works just fine, at least in common materials. Short/Small tapers are possible with form tools, for long/slim tapers I can use an offset-center and turn the part between centers in the tailstock and for very steep tapers I can get the compound back on.
And nice thing is, as I have t-slots in the cross slide, I just have to remove the top cover with two screws and drop the compound on the rear end of the cross slide. For most tasks that would be good enough :)
Stefan Gotteswinter I have a t-slotted cross slide as well and figured that would be you answer. I'm not sure what you have on the go for your next video but if you could show some threading with it I would appreciate it.. although I likely will just make the same setup as you have and try it out on my machine to see how it holds up.
with your way covers - do you have any concern about the chuck picking it up and wrapping it around at higher speeds or does the carriage appear to pull off if that did happen? I've always had that concern with lathes and flexible way covers.
keep up the videos dude, I only have like 5 subscriptions and yours I really enjoy watching.
AFriendlyMathematician I would think this would in face be the best setup for rigidity when cutting threads as long as your machine is capable of the full form cutting
Good video and nice work on the way covers and the solid tool post and micrometer stop Stefan.
Thank you!
Hmm... I commented on other videos I think the first major weak link is the quick change tool system. It adds a significant tool overhang etc. I am eliminating mine in favor of a solid post (along with goodbye to the compound) and use shim plates. We had a great VDF from 1955 which had a factory original 4-position indexing tool holder exactly matching the compound footprint and thus, leading the forces into the machine the right way.
In fact because it (the solid toolpost) can be designed from the ground up it is also possible to settle on an exact shim height (5 mm for example) first measuring the exact center height. I think removing the compound is great but one needs auto feed and cutoff by hard stop/ clutch. In fact we have a German lathe which came with several hard stops, both micro adjustable and 6-position revolver type. It goes even one step further with the "Trommelanschlag' mounted low on the front of the machine and allows stops anywhere along the axial direction of the machine.
For repeating tool position I consider an adjustable hard stop referencing the back side of the tool so that at least a tool can be swapped and placed back accurately. This also may be executed as a small revolver.
The slight loss in stiffness of a QCTP is easily outweighted by the immense speed of toolchange. I have parts where I change tools multiple times a minute, and thats only viable with a QCTP.
We had on our VDF at work a Multifix B and it never felt like a weak spot in the machine.
@@StefanGotteswinter LOL, I am probably overshooting this whole rigidity thing... you as all of our kind know we can get very obsessed with certain things once zoomed in. The chain is as strong as the weakest link and I realize there is always a next area to look at. In fact the Gema lathes are well built but not super rigid. In fact all my Gemas (4 of them :)) have a gap bed which is a rigidity killer in itself. Talking rigidity, our mill arrived yesterday, a WMW-Heckert FWU 315*800. Boy am I stoked about this machine.
Some good engineering solutions at work here, I particularly like your micrometer stop, well done!
Great video Stefan. Thanks for sharing your lathe mods with us. regards from the UK
Thanks Stefan, I'd seen Robin's video and also others advocating a solid tool post. I re-scraped my top slide, and while it's quite accurate the whole lathe is a bit of a joke and I think would benefit hugely from any rigidity improvements. I will make a point of replacing it now.
I like to refer to my lathe as a "toy-lathe", but the size is quite good for the work I do, so I learned to live with her :D
I love the mods you have done on your lathe. All well worth the effort. Thanks for sharing.
Thank you Randy!
Thanks for sharing Stefan. I bought my lathe and DRO together as they are so useful. I like the solid tool post because the compound does not get used that much so is a good upgrade. Micrometer depth stop also looks good too. I guess you had to find the perfect clamp handle position (on vs off), then drill the set screw in the right radial position? I have a micrometer body in the draw doing nothing so will add it to the long list . . . regards UK
You inspired me to build one for my china lathe as well. I did a couple vids on it. Mine didnt turn out as pretty as yours, but Im not a German machinist, Im just a humble hobbyist.
I scaled off that stop the first time I saw it. I don't think stupid is a good word to use on this entire channel!! Maybe fiddly. But that is a great stop. I bought a head just like that a few years ago with this very idea in mind. Now I need to do it. Thank you!!
Thanks very much for your excellent videos Stefan. I’m not sure about the rest of your viewers but I’m very much a beginner at all this. I’m wondering if you could do a video or two on the things one needs to start a Home workshop. I’m contemplating the purchase of a small lathe and a mill. But I don’t know what the essential requirements as opposed to the nice to have but not essential. The sort of projects I’ll be working on are making things for the workshop, I would rather make than buy, and you’ve already given lots of ideas. Once I’m competent I’d like to make parts for elderly motorcycles and for my electronics and robotics projects. I’ve already built a 3D printer and an engraving machine, and I’m good with microcontrollers. But I want to learn more about the metalwork side. Lastly your English is excellent, your videos are pretty easy to follow even for someone like me.
I've been looking for a way to make my small lathe more rigid. This is amazing. Thank you.
@7:40 "Too much of a thread engagement never killed anybody...so far" needs to be on a t-shirt.
Also, what's the music in the beginning and end?
The song is called "From russia with love" and can be found in the youtube-libary for free music:
th-cam.com/video/2z5rMNH_yTI/w-d-xo.html
The intro music is such a clear AvE influence :D
Guilty...
Now I need to get some leather. Still waiting for the foam sanding blocks and the blunt hypodermic needles to arrive!
I am not responsible for any tool buys! :D
LoL, I'm still looking for a 5C collet chuck, and my Hemmingway rotary broach kit is in the post!
Stefan Gotteswinter Well, you're not compensated anyway. :)
Depending on your lathe size, consider hitting the thrift stores for something like a leather bag, or even a small chair. You can get the leather you need for a minute fraction of the price.
aserta Great idea! I especially like the bag idea because it will probably already be nice and pliable. I've been meaning to hit up a Tandy Leather near my work for some scraps for my vise jaws, but now I think I'll go to a thrift store instead. Thanks!!
Your videos are excellent Stephan! Keep up the great work.
Thank you!
Great improvements and I like the new background music... Thanks for sharing. Fred
wow so solid and good protection with the coverings.
Nice set up Stefan.
all nice work there stefan. i like the magnetic latches on the covers.
Thank you Emma!
Copy of my comment at Robrenz' channel: You present an interesting albeit radical approach to increase rigidity. The manual of the original Swiss Multifix QCTP (e.g. used by Abom79 in his home shop) mentions that in case of high tangential loads the fixed part should be mounted using 2 dowel pins in addition to the big threaded post. That should take care of pushing the post away by tangential loads. The repeatability of the original Multifix is known to be excellent. Instead of removing the compound you could make it more rigid by using the tapered gib to lock it. Or with a straight gib tighten all lateral adjustment bolts to lock it down in order to increase the rigidity. Readjusting the gib is still quicker than putting the removed compound back in place. After those alternative, less radical methods your approach only has one advantage left which is the angled surfaces to make the chips fall away easily. In that respect your approach is really neat. A short bristled brush is the next best solution for those who don't want to blow the chips off.
Love the Micrometer Stop Stefan ! great job..
Thank you!
@@StefanGotteswinter Regarding the dial indicator having a hard life under the chuck, I addressed this by mounting a long travel indicator to the right side of the carriage with its spindle extending further to the right of the carriage past the zone of the tailstock, and the tip of the probe engaging against a sliding stop clamped to the front slidway of the bed. This has several other advantages: there is unlimited space so a long travel (50mm or 100mm) indicator can be used, with a big dial (more suited to a big lathe), also the indicator counts down as the carriage moves leftwards, so you can work to a null (zero) target, which is easier and less risky than trying to stop at a given reading, especially when using rapid power feed.
My indicator is metric reading in 0.01mm, but it engages with a inch-graduated micrometer head like your revised stop, so if I happen to be working on an "inches" component, I don't have to consult a conversion chart.
A long travel indicator is preferable, because otherwise it's too easy to wind the carriage rightwards past the inwards travel limit of the indicator, which would eventually result in damage. I suppose a protective tube could be fitted which would bottom out just before the spindle ran out of travel.
How do you advance on the compound for threading operation? keep up the great vids .
Straight infeed with the cross slide - worked so far very well with thread pitches up to 1.75mm - I rarely do very coarse threads.
Thank you for your reply, have watched almost all your videos some more than once. Keep up the video they are great.
I had to go back to your old video on the Tripan to see how this can possibly work with the second face now fixed at an odd angle.
Nice upgrades Stefan. My brother Jan from Cody, Wyoming was killed by too much thread engagement. He had it coming though.
I only recognized after my second view of this video that you cannot mount a follow rest with this new tool post setup and the new shrouds wrapping almost all of the cross slide and carriage.
Argh! Scraping class in Denmark and kinda close to me... and I have to go to Finland. Oh well, hope you share some of the knowledge you gained at the course.
Hi Stefan,
You may not be aware but the rigid tool post has been described many years ago in a book called "Simple Workshop Devices" by "Tubal Cain", no not Mr Pete from the US, the tool post is called the Gibraltar tool post, castings were available for the 7 series Myford lathes, interesting to check out.
Cheers
Raymond
I have seen the gibraltar toolpost on hemingway kits :)
I made their kit superb!!!
Stefan, how do you thread without the compound slide? Thanks for the inspiration!!!
I cannot speak for him, but it can be done strictly by way of the cross slide. The downside is you are not advancing the cutter depth on the same plane as the thread face, makes for a kind of stepped face, but it does work. Hell I have seen videos of guys who go through the trouble of setting the compound to 29.5 and then do all there depth adjustments on the cross slide, why? I don't know, but again it works.
All very good and useful mods!
Thank you for all of the work that goes into these videos! :)
At 6 min 55 sec, you mention that the parting tool is 1.6mm wide ... that's awfully close to 1/16". I wonder if some cheaper manufactures take the same stock and relabel it for different markets. It would be interesting to see if some 1.6mm blades actually mic'd to 1.5875 or conversely if a 1/16" blade mic'd to 1.6mm.
It might be - But the churchill blades are generaly refered in metric withs:
www.rtmricambi.com/eng/utensili-lame-churchill.jsp
Nice toolpost mount. May i ask why you made a stopper plate? I made a solid mount for my hbm lathe too and it increased the rigdidity ALOT. Have not experienced any slippage. Relatively quick to change between solid and topslide for doing threads and tapers. Have to go and buy leather now :)
Once to secure it against rotation when using it for drilling and second to have it indexed if I have to take it of and put it on the lathe back again (like I did for the video), no indicator needed to get it in line again :)
Thats trick :)
Super Video, wie immer. Vielen danke Ihnen für das Teilen!
Nice upgrades. I am still not sold though, I cut angles with my compound very often and I am not willing to give that feature up.
Hi Brian, strictly from a rigidity standpoint the performance increase of the solid tool post starts to diminish as the lathe gets bigger and the machine quality goes up. You probably would not see much improvement on your lathe. But when you have a digital readout with a tool table. You will go nuts with your tool offsets getting trashed every time the compound moves linearly or angularly.
I always run my compound cranked in till it locks up. I find my tools repeat there within .0005" +-. I have never fooled with programming any of the tool offsets in the DRO. I set my tool stick outs so all my tools cut the same diameter for a given setting. That fixes one axis but still the position along the part varies. Touching off and resetting 0 is usually good enough for the rough work that I do.
Understood!
ROBRENZ
Probably explains why my machine never turns to the same size after zeroing the cross slide readout - probably the compound moving a round or loading up differently each cut .
I can also see the merit in having the tool post locked and clocked to the lathe axis , makes tool setting and change over a breeze provided all of the tool holders have been set to a zero datum.
Is that hss forming on the titanium? What's the best tool material for Ti?
Great video. Thanks for posting. Can you tell me why the nut to hold the tool post in place is so long? It looks like 5cm or more. Do you use that for clamping an indicator or something? I'm sure you had a good reason, just can't guess what it is.
Yes - I want to make a indicatorholder dedicated to the lathe that can be clamped to that post.
Very nice work but I have two questions. The first , is does a tool holder fit on perpendicular to the spindle as well as parallel to it for boring operations? Secondly, I noticed that your lead screw has a cover, have you made a previous video on that?
- Google for the tripan toolholder - The boring bar holders are 30° angled.
- The cover is stock, the lathe came with it. But I have seen people make them by wrapping shimstock around a piece of round steel, heat it up and let it cool down, then you get such a spiral form.
Hi Stefan. Thanks for sharing. I recall Robin in his video said that the amount of preload to his rigid tool post setup was so high that he had to scrape the bottom of his toolpost mounting block flat because of deformation from his set screw preload. Any thoughts or guesses to rigidity gains from even using more preload than offsetted dowels? Great vid. Thanks to you and Robin!
One question. By using a 3 axis mill DRO set for radius does it allow you to rough out larger radii prior to finishing with form tools by using either the drill pattern or arc functions on the readout. Nice covers for the DRO glass scales or magnetic if that's what they are. I've mounted scales on lathes before and the Cross Slide was always the "problem child" in terms of keeping everything clean. Too bad you didn't have a micrometer head from a depth mic on hand. That way you wouldn't have to look at it upside down :D Have to admit I still prefer a mechanical type readout like a Trav-a-Dial to a DRO on a lathe. I find it easier to watch the position come up with a needle sweeping over the dial versus numbers flickering on a DRO. Old school I guess
"Just for you I will take off the quick change toolpost"
Ooooh Stefan you spoil us
I dont do that for everybody ;)
Hm. I wonder if i could mimic this upside down so i can mount it on the other side of my slide, i kind of want to keep my compound. Or maybe swap them, tho then i'd have to stay on the other side to work the slide.
Still, the idea has merit, and certainly the execution is top notch. It's insane how much 'wiggle' all those bits give, and how rigid the setup looked even on camera.
I really like the leather aprons/covers. Currently i'm rocking all metal covers, but it's a bit of a PITA especially with the one on my side, sometimes i catch the corners with my wrist if i'm not careful.
Excellent video, as always. But it's two weeks old! Come on, get on yer bike!
ProfRonconi i
I sold my bike years ago ;)
But a new video is uploading right now!
Joe Pieczynski has some very interesting videos on "straight in threading" and other nice methods similar to what you have explained.He covers threading in great detail and it dovetails nicely with your video.Thank's so much fur diese gutes auskumft.
Very well thought out and executed. I've always wondered about the lathe itself. Forgive me if you've already answered this question, but is this a chinese lathe or is it manufactured in Europe? It runs so smoothly that the sound is almost relaxing. Is this caused by the microphone, the quality of the lathe, or some application of magic in the drive train? Thanks for another great video.
Chinese all the way but with a heavy imigration process:
gtwr.de/shop/pro_mykrodreh/index.html
Very good content, Stefan. Thank you for the video.
I watched Robin's video on the fixed tool post and really like the added stiffness of the cross slide. My problem is, I have a 9x20 lathe, similar to your old lath and there is no vernier movement in the z-axis when you remove the compound. The handwheel operates a rack and pinion gear to move the cross slide and I don't know if there is a fine enough control of the z-axis. Also, the pinion gear is made of chinesium and there seems to be a lot of backlash (slop) in the gear. I was thinking of making a more precise pinion gear to remove the BL but the turn ratio of the wheel is still pretty low. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Hi Stefan. I have a similar DRO. The resolution is always quoted, but never the accuracy. Have you ever checked the DRO against gauge blocks?
Enjoy the videos. Regards AlanB
The scales came with a test report - I would trust the report farther than I could throw it, but tested against gage blocks, everything matched up, at least up to 100mm distances of travel.
Great video. DROs are addictive :). The only thing is I feel a little sad for your beautifully made cross feed dial. :(. 0:08, you need to start eating more bacon.
Thanks! Love the Dro already :D
I still look at the dials from time to time, out of pure habit..
Stefan, can you tell anything about the solidity of the mount with hammer taps. I.e., a more solid mount should have a different sound. It might make a quick and dirty check of standard mounts or to see or rather hear if all is well with your mount if it has been disturbed (R&R ed)
How do you thread without compound slide? Robin R. uses a solid toolpost on his Hardinge Lathe. Hardinge lathes are top of he line machines. I am pretty sure Robins lathe has a taper attachment. IMO solid tool post is over kill an reduces the number of turning operations possible. I wld like to see a solid toolpost threading video. How wld you cut multiply start an lead threads with a solid toolpost?
Usualy I do threads that are either very fine pitched and in materials that are easy to single thread like toolsteels or titanium, no problem to do straight infeed threading.
For multi-start threads I put the compound on, behind the solid toolpost and use that.
Did you just make a suppressor baffle?
I really like that stop. I was thinking about how to make one for our shop and might just try to steal your design.
No need to steal it, I am glad if somebody can take something usefull from the videos. Otherwise I would not make them :)
I have a lot of leater material, good idea! Thanks for this and ALL your videos. Regards from Sweden.
Lederhosen for the weeways LOL. You could perhaps add a 10 button press generator using an small microcontroller hacked into the keypad since Robin's mods really comes alive with stored tool offsets.
Thanks Stefan for the video, this looks like a pretty nice set up. I remember the video Robin did on his lathe and you asking him I think about threading without the compound. I was wondering if you could tell us which DRO you purchased? Just to save some viewers some headaches with perhaps buying the wrong one. It’s nice to hear someone recommend a particular product now and then.
Thanks.
Your tripan qctp doesn't look like the toolholder wedges are perpendicular to each other. What do you do when you want to use a boring bar?
There is a second kind of holder for boring:
anglo-swiss-tools.co.uk/tripan-tool-posts/
Oh, now that's interesting. So that holder actually is canted to compensate for the acute angle of the holder. Neat. BTW, your videos are great! Keep up the good work!
Despite the elaborate work you normally do, you made the lathe look like a mess! Looks like something they'd build in an A Team episode. You should have got a DRO with magnetic scales, they're tiny & just need a very small ali angle to cover them
Hi Stefan,I am a new subscriber of yours learning how to post ect.I own an older Prazi 10x20 lathe which I have owned for about 15 yrs. now.I would guess since this was made in Germany you may have seen one like this or very similar.I have been in touch with Robin who is a fan of yours as well and he gave me some great advise about my build eliminating the crosslide on my Prazzi.I think this should make a huge help for the efficiency of the Prazzi.Stefan I wonder if you are in fact aware of my Prazi machine?I would feel that your lathe is very similar in many ways as my Prazi.Stefan,I would appreciate some advise.I wonder if you think I could double the power from the original 750W motor to maybe 1500W or somewhere close to that?My Prazi is referred to as a AD500 precision lathe,DLZ450x180.I would say the internal gears are at least metal,and maybe hardened.The lathe comes with extra gears mainly for the threading process,but my machine seems robust enough to make the change.The cross slide resembles yours very much and of course would benefit by removing the crosslide and re doing the tool holder as described by Robin and you as well.Stefan I would appreciate any thoughts about this.Finally,can you point me to a website where I might find some nice used Swiss or German milling machines?I find many of your machines are many times on the smaller size of our huge Bridgeport type but offer many more features.I do plan a trip to your area in the near future and would love to come home with such a gem.Your small surface grinder,Ideal for me.I have seen some great examples of multi purpose mills as well.Thanks Stefan for any advise you could give me.Stefan I am one of your newest fans,and have seen all of your posts with great interest.I was explaining in an earlier post about spending many years in graduate school to become a "DOC" of sorts,but I failed to mention,trying to learn machine work is the absolute hardsest thing I have ever attempted.I have found this is an ongoing challenge for me and inspite of it all and all the major blunders I keep on going.I salute all you do to share your knowledge with anyone willing to learn .Thanks very much,Fred
Perfect! It have to be a great feeling and an immense joy to use them. :)
Can you turn 304 stainless the same way ? I get terrible results even at lower rpm, < 150 sfm
1.4301? Turns ok. I recently did a lot of parts in it, with the right insert and cooleant it gives excellent results.
@@StefanGotteswinter thanks, yes 1.4301. I'll try with an actual coolant, been using a mix of engine oil and kerosene with positive rake dcmt inserts. They dull easily and I suspect I'm dealing with work hardening.
I'm going through your videos again, and I still say wow (in a good way) to myself every 5 minutes or so. One thing you may want to consider is mounting a stepper motor to the nut on top of your tool post to solve the thread engagement time problem and use reverse to get it to throw everything a foot in the air You could then install dro there to solve your empty readout problem. You would know when the nut is almost tight and also prepare you to catch the tool post and stepper motor when it's ejected. Keep up the good work! By the way, did the leather come from an old pair of chaps?
I like the micrometer stop, have to make one for my lathe!
Stefan, I can't thank you enough for all the knowledge and insight you're sharing. Very recently, I purchased an Alexander 3A (English version of the Deckel GK12). It would benefit from your ER11 spindle conversion. Is there any chance you'd consider doing a video on the making of one of those spindles?
Thanks Again!
Hi Stefan,
I like the leather gaurds , sure works better than rubber and it comes off easily for cleaning !
Did you do a video about the tailstock hand wheel ?
No, I did the tailstock long before I did videos - But I have some photos on the topic here:gtwr.de/shop/pro_mykrodreh/tailstock.html
Titanium guitar strap buttons, cool!
Ha, right :)
did you make the lead screw cover? or is that original?
As far as I know they came with Stefan's lathe. Mine had them as well but between the mounting collars at each end and the depth of the cover such as when it's moved in tight to the headstock or towards the tailstock you do lose quite a bit of carriage travel. Around 7.5" (190 mm) on mine if I remember correctly. And with mine installed it wouldn't allow me to get a tool up tight to the faceplate without excessive tool extension. There a good idea and work well if your willing to give up that amount of carriage travel.
The screw cover is stock - But you can get those spring steel covers from industrial suppliers in different dimensions. But you loose quite a bit of travel with them.
I've been thinking about trying to make one, using the spring from the inside of a tape measure
Great. I have to add something similar to my 8*14
What's the grey goo around the bottom of the tool post?
Manly Man Sweat ......atleast here in Germany
can you use the lathe for threading anymore?
Sure - With straight infeed.
I've always threaded with the compound set at 30 degrees so the tool only cuts on one side. Do the results differ much when you feed straight in?
Custom angle (notched) plates could be added to add 30 degrees or other angles. Perhaps replace the screws with dowel pins so the angle plate can be quickly swapped. But I do see a disadvantage of losing the ability to cut tapers using the cross slide :(
Seeing as you're making a solid toolpost holder anyway, you didn't think it was worth making it shorter and using a more rigid toolholder than the Tripan holder? As I recall you had a multifix holder that you considered too large for the lathe.
I think the tripan is as rigid as it can get for such a small machine - And has the advantage of the simple geometry for the toolholders, I made all of my holders but one myself and I plan to do another batch of ten this year :D
The A-size multifix is to large for this machine, yes. Today Pewetools sells sizes between the tiny AA and the A holder, but those are non-standard.
Is there a video showing what you did to the tailstock?
Diggin the music
razorburn71 Agreed. Much better, though it did make me wonder for just a moment if I had clicked on some other Stefan Gotteswinter's channel.
It sounds like Prokofiev, similar to Montagues and Capulets.
+MarvinRunyon thanks, those The Montagues and the Capulets are super theme too
th-cam.com/video/2z5rMNH_yTI/w-d-xo.html
:)
Hi Stefan
Du kannst auch wenn der Display hochfährt, also wenn er Strom erhält in den Adjusting Modus drücken. Selbe Taste, frag mich ned welche weiss ich grad nicht. Aber wenn er hochfährt zählt er ja von 0-10. Meiner macht das zumindest. Versuchs mal. Dort kann man auch die Teilungen anderst rechnen lassen aber das ist eher schlecht als recht, meiner Erfahrung nach. Ich arbeite nur noch mit absoluten Werten, für mich simpler.
Grüsse
I really enjoyed this, thank you
another great video thank you
Oooo
I'm gonna make a solid toolpost now.
Love the Titanium nail.Yabba Dabba Do.
Nice Video.
im a novice w/tiny red hf mini china lathe, l copied this. My friend danny made block for me. l build carbon velomobiels in usa.
Well explained. Very useful additions.
Thanks!
"1.6 mm wide cutoff blade". I just love you "metric" guys. THAT'S 1/16" in case you didn't know. But keep working in metric. It's easier that way, isn't it?
Anyway, the tool post mount is nice. Now I will watch the rest of the video.
Well, I work in metric, because thats what is what most of the world does.
liked and subscribed. Looking forward to watching your other videos. Thanks
great as all ways thanks :)
Great vid Dude, Cheers G.
Love your micrometer stop too :-) well... loved it all haha
thank you Stefan
titangurtknöpfe? cool
Muss man haben!
haha
jetzt wo dus sagst wird mir mein mangel daran erst bewusst
Great video. Thank you
Too much thread engagement never killed anyone! So true
👏😎
Love it!