So pleased to see this video. Lived in Priory Court for 35 years and was an avid Walthamstow Avenue fan. The ground was indeed built over the brook which is why it had a reputation for poor drainage and matches always being postponed during late December and January. Also knew an old lady from my time attending At Andrews church who lived on Green Pond farm which is where the football ground and dairy were built on and she told me of her childhood playing by the brook in the 1920's. There was a Unigate depot next door to the football ground for some years. Also in Priory Court by Balmoral house ( B block in my day) there was a weeping willow tree that was said to be on the path of the brook. Also a patch of wasteland behind Devon house ( D block years ago and a car park nowadays) which was never built on because it was said the water ran underneath. There were many bramble and blackberry bushes there and we used to catch butterflies and grasshoppers as kids. Hope this adds to your info on the area. I live in Colchester now with my wife Adele and family but love seeing your videos of many of my old haunts. All the best , Rob.
Love your videos about rivers I lived in Jamaica for the early part of my life the rivers there was such a big part of my growth so good reminders for me and my childhood.
Thank you John, I grew up in Highams park..My earliest memories are of our flat just up from the Royal Oak Pub.. I have no memories of Halifax where I was born in 1945... Our next move was to The Drive in Walthamstow.. All old houses..Beautiful, bomb-damaged in some cases.. We were not there long..But Oak hill and the wonderful forest drew me back, long after my home was in other places overseas as well... Oak hill haunts me.. the 623 trolly bus at the Napier arms.. My mother and me ..Blackberrying .. Higham's park lake.. larkswood swimming pool.. The Kingfisher pool .. Whenever I watch your walks, I look out for something familiar.. .. Thank you so much for some sanity in these troubled times we are all in .. Lots of love from Alberta Canada xxx
Thank you John, I really enjoyed "walking" with you through the streets of my childhood. Mum worked at the Andrex factory and our house was never short of Handy Andies (tissues) and luxury toilet roll when everyone else was still using newspaper! I remember the big cheers coming from the crowds at Walthamstow Avenue football ground.
Hi John I used to live in Prior Court from 1958 until 1982, was a member of the WAFC supporters club, many a happy watching them play. Jim Lewis’s father had a toy shop at the Junction of Palmerston road and Forest road.
Great walk I love the lost river walks where you have to use your imagination . some trivia for you Trevor Bailey the great Essex and England all rounder played for Walthamstow avenue in the 51 amateur cup final , those were the days when sportsman played for the love of the game
I have absolutely loved watching these videos. I'm working my way backwards having only just discovered you(sorry), but I'm taking in 3 or 4 per day. You're bringing calmness to a crazy world where I can escape from.
i was excited to see the large higham lodge sign over and beyond your head on your left. my grandmother grew up in the real one turn of the 20th century.
Another wonderful video of an area that I worked in for 16 years. Sadly, I never explored as much as I should have but now feel inspired to get back to E17, lockdown permitting
Another gem John it is interesting how rivers and streams persist in the landscape even when they are buried and that some are being daylighted again as highlights of new developments and brought back in to life
Another great walk John. Thank you so much. Lovely to see E17 in its glory, albeit the changes since I left in 1991. Looking forward to the next one, wherever it may be.
Thank you John your walk brought back many happy memories to me. A part of your walk went pass Britain’s Toy Factory In Sutherland Road, as a boy in the 50s I would creep round the back of the factory not wanted to be seen and help myself to the reject toy soldiers from the skip. I was the most popular boy in the class .
I walked by at about 29:45 in this video on my way to get beers from Signature Brew while you were filming by the Truman Social :). I'd not come across your videos before but assumed you were a TH-camr and forgot about it until it got suggested on my YoutTube feed about 4 days later. I really enjoyed watching it and I've watched a few others you've done over the last few days as well and really enjoyed them. You have a new fan. The Homerton to Highbury walk and the Walthamstow to Springfield Park videos were great. Would love to see you do a walk through the Modernism in Metroland areas using Joshua Abbott's book and the Modernism in Metroland website as a loose guide :).
ah wonderful stuff - can't wait to get back down there when the tap rooms re-open. Thanks for the kind words about the videos. I really need to get that book. In the meantime here's a walk I did following the Metropolitan Line through some peak MetroLand th-cam.com/video/4iAsnlik080/w-d-xo.html
The Avenue & Robin Friday, loved it, brilliant video, that man Friday was a amazing football player lower league Legend, The Avenue & green pond lane great part of non league football history
Great stuff as always John, there does seem to be a liquid theme in a lot of your videos where you go on the hunt for lost or forgotten rivers and brooks and then go on the hunt for beer and why not as it's so good to support local breweries. I look forward to the next video wherever that may be.
Hi John My sister used to live at Priory Court in the 1960's-1970's and her balcony looked over the pitch behind one of the goals of Walthamstow Avenue. I used to watch the games when the 0's were away. They held Manchester United to a draw in the F.A Cup in the 1950's. I still have some of the programmes. A very interesting walk along the brook. Enjoy the beers. Gary
Hi John, a friend recommended me your video and glad he did. I have a plot at the Higham Hill allotments and one of the older ladies there told me once, that there used to be a brook at the end of the allotment years ago (the way I understood it, it ran between the eastern end of the allotment and the housing block overlooking the plots). If you enter the allotment site from the Green Pond road gate there is a slight rise if you walk north and a slight dip if you walk east. The plots closest to the eastern end always get waterlogged when it rains a lot, as it's been the case this winter.
Thank you, John. That was a walk through my childhood and youth. I grew up in a Warner flat in Mersey Road, off Winns Avenue: you even walked past my Junior School in Elphinstone road. I agree that there is a stream leading out from that corner of the Lloyd Park moat where you showed the grille. It flows below Winns Avenue, which used to flood quite regularly after heavy rain. Sad that Walthamstow Avenue FC is just a memory now.
Fantastic video John, I grew up in a house where the garden backed onto Chamberlain Place (you were in at 22:43) and we could always hear running water at the end of the garden and never knew what it was! Thanks for this one 👍
Thank you for this! I grew up on Higham Hill Road in the 60s/70s, very close to where you showed the course of the river. I only found out about the river two weeks ago when I saw an old map so finding your video was timely and fascinating.
Thank you for making these videos. I moved to America recently and watching these not only eases the homesickness a tiny bit but educates me on my home. Weirdly, I’m pretty sure I’ve walked by you multiple times when I was home, so this is all lovely to see.
Hi John, love your river walks. I live in a place called Lake, it’s on the Isle of Wight. My house is at the bottom of an old river valley. The river is flowing under the road right outside my house. Until very recently, when they re did the pipe that holds it in place, the river used to fold when it rained. It would pop out and flood the road. We just used to move our cars out of the way, it never reached our houses,as they are built quite high up out of the way.
What an amazing trip down memory lane. I lived for many years in Blenheim rd in the 'skinny' house- as locals called it- it was the Tardis to us. You were standing at the bottom of the garden when you were in the car park in Chamberlain place. I could hear the brook running quite clearly when I lived there but didn't realise what it was-thanks for solving the mystery and thanks for the videos! By the way there's a Brook Court on Green Pond Rd..........
Wonderful walk as always. I used to live in St Albans so the river Ver walk sounds a great idea. Look forward to seeing your next walk. Thank you John.
Hi John, In Chamberlain Place you looked at two large metal covers in the pavement. Next to them is a large green metal box. This looks to me like a Thames Water "Lucy Pillar". Inside you would find some instrumentation connected via a modem and phone line to one of the water control rooms around London. They monitor water flow and level etc and the data is used for flood mitigation and to maintain flows in drought. These green boxes are all over, but no-one notices them. Thanks for all your great videos
Travelled a lot through work commitments. Bought a house in Lynmouth road., Walthamstow. Lovely pubs and real sense of community. Was kind of sad to move on.🍻
That was so exciting about the planned de-culverting/daylighting etc of the brook, so rare to see something like this in modern planning, I'm so impressed. If only more new builds had a sense of place and history like this
I know Lois - very rare to see these days although let's wait and see if it gets done, I've seen it in proposals before but then not actually implemented
I would suspect that the daylighting of the brook is being done because a water feature adds value to the area. None the less it is still nice to see the brook coming back in to public view
My Dad worked as a manager in those factories in the 70's around Hooker Lane. So that was the reason I grow up there. Love this video John. Meet you in the Trumans when this is all over for a pint or two.
Always a pleasure joining you on your walks John . Shame to see the teams disappear. Thanks for another great walk . Hoping to get out the wkend myself and try out my new boots 🥾
I'm loving these walks around the London suburbs. So many of the places you end up look so nondescript, the sort of places that would never get a second glance, let alone visitors. When you have a reason to explore these places, they can become so interesting and the history starts to ooze from the streets. I've explored many similar areas(not often in London though) looking for traces of long-forgotten railway infrastructure and the same thing happens on searches like those. One thing that's a great help: you keep including the street names, which makes it so much easier to follow your progress on maps(old 𝑎𝑛𝑑 new).👍👌😁 Cheers for now, Dougie.
thanks very much for that Dougie - I'm making an effort to include as much location info as possible now to help locate people unfamiliar with the areas. Walking old railway lines is a great activity as well
@@JohnRogersWalks Yep, I find I can sometimes lose interest if it's a place I don't know and I can't work out where we are on the map. The way you're doing it, it's usually pretty straightforward to trace the route on google maps, railmaponline, or something similar. By using the N.L.S. old maps site, it's easy to overlay old railways/tram routes onto today's maps, which makes it all the more interesting for me. Apart from anything else, the vast majority of my knowledge of UK geography is by train. Even if I don't know a place, I've usually(at least) been through it on a train.
Thanks John, a real trip home for me as I lived in the area as a child between 1962 and 1980. I think I know the area better still than the town I live in now: been here 20 years! Lloyds Park holds some memories for me playing there as a child, indeed, I still have the scar on my knee from falling into the moat/lake as child. We also used to go to the theatre on the island during the summer holidays as "they" put on plays etc to keep us kids off of the street. I loved the "River God" shot as indeed, I have two such pure white cats at home... must be a link there somewhere! And yes, we always thought there was a stream leading off of the lake down Winns Avenue as you suggest. With regards to Higham Hill Library, I spent many an hour in there as a child and have a memory of the road outside flooding once and thus was closed for a period while "water works" were carried out. As I was at McEntee at the time, I guess this was between 1976 to 1980. Talking about the library, good to see it was spared the chop: libraries give us hope and knowledge. You may not have noticed but Priors Croft, the road next to the library is blocked off. This road along with several others in the area was closed off to traffic in around 1973/74.... the first low traffic area I am aware of. The locals hated it at the time: bet they wouldn't go back to the old ways now. Moving onto the football ground, as Robert states, it was poorly draining due to the water course and the fact that it was in the bottom of a valley. During a storm once, I saw water come down Luton Road and into the ground by the Dairy End. You also stood on Higham Hill Road by a wire fence. This is the playing fields of a school: more about this in a second. Across the road (now a supermarket) was the chip shop we used for many years including after a match. Indeed, I could eat a 3p bag of chips in the time it took to walk home. If it wasn't for that chip shop, I would be half the man I am today! Next to the chip shop (to the left as you look at it), there used to be a billboard (not sure if it is still there), I am reasonably sure the brook ran there as one of the reasons the chip shop closed it that it kept flooding. As you highlight, the brook would have run to the corner where you passed the drains. The site of the "new" (well they are new to me) flats was a giant frozen food factory. There was no sign of the brook here but on the wiggly bit where Sutherland Road starts I have a memory of there being an uncovered brook behind a house where a friend "Lee" lived (the white house on the corner). This may be just me just dreaming but who knows. The area of the new houses was still factory units then so we would not have gone exploring. Almost coming to an end...honest.... a bit further on down Sutherland Road you stopped and look down Sutherland Road Path (it seemed half as wide as it used to be). Behind you and to the left of Stirling Road path was Higham Hill School. Pulled down when I was in the second year, (1968) this was moved to Higham Hill Road and became "Edward Redhead" before being replaced again with a new, new build some time in the 2000. The area cleared became a giant paper mill before being turned into horrible looking flats. One final thing, walking down Blackhorse Land you stopped outside a Petrol Station where until the late 1970's stood an grand old house which was pulled down to build the petrol station. A shame really as it was a nice old building, although in a poor state of repair. Thanks again for the video. Certainly took me back and sorry for the long post!
A great piece of River Hunting John . Walthamstow, Leytonstone and Leyton have provided great Football teams and players Ridgeway, David Beckham , Laurie Cunningham , I remember the Avenue appearing in the Walthamstow Guardian. Thanks for another great walk. 😊👍
Congrats on your new batch of subs! Always been dismayed as to why you don't have hundreds of thousands. It will be our pleasure to join you on that journey along with all the others. Well done John!
My grandparents lived in Warner’s flat 244 Markhouse Road from their marriage to My Nan going into a home aged 93. As a child I stayed there a lot and grandad had an allotment near Markhouse Avenue.
another terrific video, hope you enjoyed your Beers at the end of your walk....back in the 60s when beer was proper I used to love Charringtons, there was, maybe still is a Brewery in Bethnal Green...I know they became Bass Charrington and from then on it all went a bit Tits Up. Most of the beer here in Siam is a very flimsy lager, but Singha do make a Rice beer which is very nice and reminds me of when the London Breweries put out some decent stuff...Happy Days.
5:24 Ever thought of doing Birketts Brooke..That ran through , Hounslow.Whitton ,Isleworth.. Twickenham border...There's only a bit of it left..the mouth runs into the river Crane in St Margaret's..Middlesex ... West London..
Super video again John. William Morris was certainly a Victorian eccentric and brave enough to do cosplay as well. I remember the big three amateur clubs of the 50s and 60s Walthamstow Avenue, Hereford and Bishop Auckland- all league teams feared them in the FA Cup all 3 were class but sad to hear Walthamstow Avenue are no more and this COVID might see others go to the wall.
love the videos John , I used to work in Bloomsbury and there was the river fleet which ran underneath mecklenbough sq , I remember we also pulled out an old wooden tree which was an old water pipe , maybe an old Roman water pipe
That's a curious story that needs to be followed up - I wonder what stream that was, too far west for the Fleet but perhaps a conduit draining into the Fleet, not far from Lamb's Conduit there
yeah near lambs conduit st , must be there, there is loads of raising water in that area it looks like it runs under a college near there called the goodenough college on the square , under the building and in the health club there is loads of labranths and chambers of raising water , they always get raising water problems , all next to the old foundering hospital corams fields.
Thanks Kev - that's a great idea, somebody with a lot of knowledge on this has offered to help so I reckon that could happen this year with a bit of luck
A few weeks ago I saw you across Wood Street where you seemed to be waiting, in front of one of the wonderful international groceries, by the overground station. I nearly crossed the street to talk to you but then felt shy. I've walked many of your routes but after seeing your videos always want to return - very inspiring.
Hi Laura - I was probably filming the previous video following a lost river that flows across Wood Street. Please do say Hi next time- always nice to meet people who watch the videos
@@JohnRogersWalks Yes, I watched it right away, curious about what the theme was, and then I went and traced your route (I'm living near there). I'll salute you next time.
Another great video John 👏👏👏 This one is very personal to me as born and raised in Higham place. Remember unigate, bird's-eye factory (now chamberlain place) and Rediffusion the yellow building along Sutherland Rd. Also remember AW Alloys I think it was called that used to have a helicopter land there from time to time. And of course The Avenue football ground, where my brother got engaged. Great memories
I was born in Ashbrook house Dagenham. I remember the brook at the end of the garden where my grandfather grew watercress. I guess Ashbrook court must now be on that site. It would be interesting to know if it is on 20th century maps and where it originated and ended. It is not clear on google earth when I look for it. Watching your hidden rivers videos has really got me thinking about it.
Wonderful John, great to see you on the site of the former Walsthamstow Avenue FC,also mentioning Leytonstone.Being something of a football ground connisseuer these are two of the fabled old grounds of London that i've seen pics of and wish i'd have visited, Have a great week John
thanks John - I've been fascinated with these clubs since I heard about them, growing up as I did watching Wycombe in the Isthmian League - very sad that there's no trace left behind
Very interesting video, I have a allotment plot on the higham hill common site, it has areas of the site that floods in the winter and 1 area which can only used as a wildlife nature area because it is normally always wet and floods in winter. Many rumours of a stream running through the allotment site.
Well never knew about that river. I remember the Leyton football ground as a kid my parents and aunt used to work behind the bar for a bit in its social club. The grounds were derelict back then. Never knew about the Walthamstow FC. Great walk and very interesting again John TY.
thanks Jason - I'd never heard of Walthamstow Avenue tbh even though they must have played against Wycombe when I used to watch the Wanderers in the mid-80s
23:42 behind the factories is where the river went. I would climb over there as a kid. No water though..a bit boggy maybe. From the factory to Black horse was a naughty short cut.
Thanks for the video John. My wife and I live in Co Tyrone. She's from Southend on Sea originally, lived for some years at Curtis Mill Green, Essex. Might be a nice area for a walk.
Your films are one of the things that has kept me going through the lockdowns - thank you! Thinking of projects, did you ever find any of the the letters Buxton carved into the trees in Epping Forest to designate his routes?
@@JohnRogersWalks I think he mentions in the book how he carved the letters he gave to the routes in his book onto trees at the start of each route? They might still be visible if one knows where to look.
Hey John another great video,I love all your posts but especially the river hunting ones. I've been out tracing all the ditches,brooks and streams, not difficult lately with all the rain and snow. Not far from me is Holliwell point, but as yet no sign of a well. Thanks so much for your posts
I remember commenting on an earlier Dagenham Brook video of yours that it linked up with Higham Hill brook around the business park north of Ferry Lane, as I'd seen the same 1840 map and description of the brook's route towards Chapel End and it correlated with my memories of the area, including the dip in Higham Hill Road. That 1840s map, an overhead photo of the estate being built, and contemporary maps all pointed to the brook hugging the allotments quite tightly, passing just to the east of Priory Court estate, continuing under Priors Croft near the junction of Warwick Road, near the library you showed (my local as a kid). I was always hoping you'd cover it in a video and walk more streets of my childhood in the process, so I was really pleased to discover this video. But must admit I was a bit surprised by the starting point for this video as I hadn't seen the earlier map of the stream coming out of Waterhouse along Winns Avenue. I can't see at what point the two brooks connect. Why does the earlier map not show the more northern route?
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So pleased to see this video. Lived in Priory Court for 35 years and was an avid Walthamstow Avenue fan. The ground was indeed built over the brook which is why it had a reputation for poor drainage and matches always being postponed during late December and January. Also knew an old lady from my time attending At Andrews church who lived on Green Pond farm which is where the football ground and dairy were built on and she told me of her childhood playing by the brook in the 1920's. There was a Unigate depot next door to the football ground for some years. Also in Priory Court by Balmoral house ( B block in my day) there was a weeping willow tree that was said to be on the path of the brook. Also a patch of wasteland behind Devon house ( D block years ago and a car park nowadays) which was never built on because it was said the water ran underneath. There were many bramble and blackberry bushes there and we used to catch butterflies and grasshoppers as kids. Hope this adds to your info on the area. I live in Colchester now with my wife Adele and family but love seeing your videos of many of my old haunts. All the best , Rob.
brilliant - thanks so much for sharing those memories Rob
Hi John, when will you have more paperback/hardback copies of your book?
Love your videos about rivers I lived in Jamaica for the early part of my life the rivers there was such a big part of my growth so good reminders for me and my childhood.
Thank you John, I grew up in Highams park..My earliest memories are of our flat just up from the Royal Oak Pub.. I have no memories of Halifax where I was born in 1945... Our next move was to The Drive in Walthamstow.. All old houses..Beautiful, bomb-damaged in some cases.. We were not there long..But Oak hill and the wonderful forest drew me back, long after my home was in other places overseas as well... Oak hill haunts me.. the 623 trolly bus at the Napier arms.. My mother and me ..Blackberrying .. Higham's park lake.. larkswood swimming pool.. The Kingfisher pool .. Whenever I watch your walks, I look out for something familiar.. .. Thank you so much for some sanity in these troubled times we are all in .. Lots of love from Alberta Canada xxx
thanks for sharing those wonderful memories Anne
John & Jago have taught me more about London than any history lesson ever did.
to be fair all history at school taught me was shit about monarchs and imperialism.
Dull and hugely biased.
Jago is brilliant like John
Robin Friday, the greatest footballer you never saw
Thank you John, I really enjoyed "walking" with you through the streets of my childhood. Mum worked at the Andrex factory and our house was never short of Handy Andies (tissues) and luxury toilet roll when everyone else was still using newspaper! I remember the big cheers coming from the crowds at Walthamstow Avenue football ground.
Cheers for that Judith and also the Winns Avenue tip
Another outstanding, educational and enjoyable video. Thank you once again, Mr Rogers. See you next week, wherever you may be.
many thanks indeed - preparing to shoot the next video now
Hi John
I used to live in Prior Court from 1958 until 1982, was a member of the WAFC supporters club, many a happy watching them play. Jim Lewis’s father had a toy shop at the
Junction of Palmerston road and Forest road.
Great walk John as always
I used live on Hainault road in Leytonstone also in highams park the avenue
Great walk I love the lost river walks where you have to use your imagination . some trivia for you Trevor Bailey the great Essex and England all rounder played for Walthamstow avenue in the 51 amateur cup final , those were the days when sportsman played for the love of the game
Fantastic fact Michael - that needs to be added to their Wikipedia page
Fantastic John, I just love hearing about these little rivers it's so fascinating how they flow and where they flow.
Thanks for another great walk, even better ending with 🍺🍺🍺🍺. See you on the next walk. Wherever that maybe 🤔
I have absolutely loved watching these videos. I'm working my way backwards having only just discovered you(sorry), but I'm taking in 3 or 4 per day. You're bringing calmness to a crazy world where I can escape from.
thanks Lloyd - hope you're enjoying the back catalogue
i was excited to see the large higham lodge sign over and beyond your head on your left. my grandmother grew up in the real one turn of the 20th century.
Wonderful river-sleuthing, and nice to see Spring unfolding in Albion.
thanks Carole
Another wonderful video of an area that I worked in for 16 years. Sadly, I never explored as much as I should have but now feel inspired to get back to E17, lockdown permitting
Beautiful blue skies there 💙 😍 here's to spring coming along and chasing the snow away. Peace with you all as you walk 🚶♂️ the lands 🙏.
That was a fun walk, could feel your energy! Glad you got some beer in the end.
thanks Magic Knight
Another gem John it is interesting how rivers and streams persist in the landscape even when they are buried and that some are being daylighted again as highlights of new developments and brought back in to life
So glad you ended up with the fresh local beer!
it was a real treat Timothy - nice reward when I got home
Another great walk John. Thank you so much. Lovely to see E17 in its glory, albeit the changes since I left in 1991. Looking forward to the next one, wherever it may be.
Thanks Sally
Thanks John for another great walk of E17
Thank you John your walk brought back many happy memories to me. A part of your walk went pass Britain’s Toy Factory In Sutherland Road, as a boy in the 50s I would creep round the back of the factory not wanted to be seen and help myself to the reject toy soldiers from the skip. I was the most popular boy in the class .
thanks for sharing that Brian - great bit of info about the toy factory
I love the new music you've included
I walked by at about 29:45 in this video on my way to get beers from Signature Brew while you were filming by the Truman Social :). I'd not come across your videos before but assumed you were a TH-camr and forgot about it until it got suggested on my YoutTube feed about 4 days later. I really enjoyed watching it and I've watched a few others you've done over the last few days as well and really enjoyed them. You have a new fan. The Homerton to Highbury walk and the Walthamstow to Springfield Park videos were great. Would love to see you do a walk through the Modernism in Metroland areas using Joshua Abbott's book and the Modernism in Metroland website as a loose guide :).
ah wonderful stuff - can't wait to get back down there when the tap rooms re-open. Thanks for the kind words about the videos. I really need to get that book. In the meantime here's a walk I did following the Metropolitan Line through some peak MetroLand th-cam.com/video/4iAsnlik080/w-d-xo.html
I lived in the area for nearly 20 years. Great to see so many familiar places. Fascinating and well made videos.
Another amazing informative and interesting story of a local watercourse. Enjoying these videos immensely. Thank you John.
My pleasure rrygor
The Avenue & Robin Friday, loved it, brilliant video, that man Friday was a amazing football player lower league
Legend, The Avenue & green pond lane great part of non league football history
Good walk John!
thanks Peter
Thank you John, for making Sunday evenings so wonderful. Loved this video.
Great stuff as always John, there does seem to be a liquid theme in a lot of your videos where you go on the hunt for lost or forgotten rivers and brooks and then go on the hunt for beer and why not as it's so good to support local breweries. I look forward to the next video wherever that may be.
Cheers Andy
Nice one John. Been looking forward to this all weekend.
Hope you enjoyed it Jay
@@JohnRogersWalks burning the midnight oil John? I did thank you.
Hi John
My sister used to live at Priory Court in the 1960's-1970's and her balcony looked over the pitch behind one of the goals of Walthamstow Avenue. I used to watch the games when the 0's were away. They held Manchester United to a draw in the F.A Cup in the 1950's. I still have some of the programmes. A very interesting walk along the brook. Enjoy the beers. Gary
what a great spot Gary - there's footage of that Man Utd game on the internet if you want to re-live the memories
I love this!! This area is where I love to cycle in the summer
Hi John, a friend recommended me your video and glad he did. I have a plot at the Higham Hill allotments and one of the older ladies there told me once, that there used to be a brook at the end of the allotment years ago (the way I understood it, it ran between the eastern end of the allotment and the housing block overlooking the plots). If you enter the allotment site from the Green Pond road gate there is a slight rise if you walk north and a slight dip if you walk east. The plots closest to the eastern end always get waterlogged when it rains a lot, as it's been the case this winter.
Brilliant- thanks so much for that info Augusta
Thank you, John. That was a walk through my childhood and youth. I grew up in a Warner flat in Mersey Road, off Winns Avenue: you even walked past my Junior School in Elphinstone road. I agree that there is a stream leading out from that corner of the Lloyd Park moat where you showed the grille. It flows below Winns Avenue, which used to flood quite regularly after heavy rain. Sad that Walthamstow Avenue FC is just a memory now.
Interesting stuff! You're my spirit animal
Fantastic video John, I grew up in a house where the garden backed onto Chamberlain Place (you were in at 22:43) and we could always hear running water at the end of the garden and never knew what it was! Thanks for this one 👍
My Sunday is now complete!!
Thank you for this! I grew up on Higham Hill Road in the 60s/70s, very close to where you showed the course of the river. I only found out about the river two weeks ago when I saw an old map so finding your video was timely and fascinating.
This was such a fun walk! Thanks for taking us along.
Thank you for making these videos. I moved to America recently and watching these not only eases the homesickness a tiny bit but educates me on my home. Weirdly, I’m pretty sure I’ve walked by you multiple times when I was home, so this is all lovely to see.
My pleasure and that’s great to hear Tamoor
The river gods will certainly smile on you. And you tube just wouldn't be complete without John poking his camera down a drain somewhere in london.👍
ha, thanks TTv - hope you're well
Thanks John you have made my day, Keep safe !
Never easy to discover around(Health, age & now quarantine) thank you John for viewing & explaining these places thoroughly
my pleasure Lena
Great walk John, I see you found the treasure at the end, I bet I went down lovely 🍺
It went down very well indeed Raj - thanks
Hi John, love your river walks. I live in a place called Lake, it’s on the Isle of Wight. My house is at the bottom of an old river valley. The river is flowing under the road right outside my house. Until very recently, when they re did the pipe that holds it in place, the river used to fold when it rained. It would pop out and flood the road. We just used to move our cars out of the way, it never reached our houses,as they are built quite high up out of the way.
What an amazing trip down memory lane. I lived for many years in Blenheim rd in the 'skinny' house- as locals called it- it was the Tardis to us. You were standing at the bottom of the garden when you were in the car park in Chamberlain place. I could hear the brook running quite clearly when I lived there but didn't realise what it was-thanks for solving the mystery and thanks for the videos! By the way there's a Brook Court on Green Pond Rd..........
thanks for that Sue
Another great video John. It will be great to see the de culverted section in the future on one of your videos.
That’ll be great Rob - I’ll have to go back when it’s finished
Stumbled across this channel and it's great! :)
TV channel needs to sign this man up!
thanks Roy
Wonderful walk as always. I used to live in St Albans so the river Ver walk sounds a great idea. Look forward to seeing your next walk. Thank you John.
Hi John,
In Chamberlain Place you looked at two large metal covers in the pavement. Next to them is a large green metal box. This looks to me like a Thames Water "Lucy Pillar". Inside you would find some instrumentation connected via a modem and phone line to one of the water control rooms around London. They monitor water flow and level etc and the data is used for flood mitigation and to maintain flows in drought. These green boxes are all over, but no-one notices them.
Thanks for all your great videos
Thanks for that info Julian - I shall look out for them from now on
Once again thank you for sharing this video and lifting my spirits. Enjoy your beer I always have one when watching your videos. Bob.
thanks Bob - that beer went down a treat
a contrast to today,, feels like minus 7 and snow!!
Same here.
Travelled a lot through work commitments. Bought a house in Lynmouth road., Walthamstow. Lovely pubs and real sense of community. Was kind of sad to move on.🍻
Beautiful escapism. Wonderful walk, thank you John. Will check that brewery out.
thanks Tim
That was so exciting about the planned de-culverting/daylighting etc of the brook, so rare to see something like this in modern planning, I'm so impressed. If only more new builds had a sense of place and history like this
I know Lois - very rare to see these days although let's wait and see if it gets done, I've seen it in proposals before but then not actually implemented
I would suspect that the daylighting of the brook is being done because a water feature adds value to the area. None the less it is still nice to see the brook coming back in to public view
Another 1/2 hour video crammed with interest and fascination. Thank you John for relieving the agony of boredom caused by this Covid virus.
thanks for watching Bob - I love spending my week on these videos
My Dad worked as a manager in those factories in the 70's around Hooker Lane. So that was the reason I grow up there. Love this video John. Meet you in the Trumans when this is all over for a pint or two.
look forward to seeing you there Stuart
What a fantastic adventure. I absolutly love your lost river walks. Higham hill is a beautifull suburb.
thanks Shaun
Lovely walk John and some nice, gentle social insight - well done
thanks Martin - I've just written the blog post for this walk and it really reminded me of how much I enjoyed it
Once again, a magical Tolkiensque:odyssey.🇯🇪
0:17 Moment video good. Thanks for sharing my dear friend.
Great stuff, John so very interesting and well presented.
Thanks Terence
Another one John, brilliant. Pleased you got your beer too 😀👍
Cheers Tomgirl
Always a pleasure joining you on your walks John . Shame to see the teams disappear. Thanks for another great walk . Hoping to get out the wkend myself and try out my new boots 🥾
Thanks Ian - hope the new boots performed well
I'm loving these walks around the London suburbs. So many of the places you end up look so nondescript, the sort of places that would never get a second glance, let alone visitors. When you have a reason to explore these places, they can become so interesting and the history starts to ooze from the streets.
I've explored many similar areas(not often in London though) looking for traces of long-forgotten railway infrastructure and the same thing happens on searches like those.
One thing that's a great help: you keep including the street names, which makes it so much easier to follow your progress on maps(old 𝑎𝑛𝑑 new).👍👌😁
Cheers for now,
Dougie.
thanks very much for that Dougie - I'm making an effort to include as much location info as possible now to help locate people unfamiliar with the areas. Walking old railway lines is a great activity as well
@@JohnRogersWalks Yep, I find I can sometimes lose interest if it's a place I don't know and I can't work out where we are on the map. The way you're doing it, it's usually pretty straightforward to trace the route on google maps, railmaponline, or something similar. By using the N.L.S. old maps site, it's easy to overlay old railways/tram routes onto today's maps, which makes it all the more interesting for me. Apart from anything else, the vast majority of my knowledge of UK geography is by train. Even if I don't know a place, I've usually(at least) been through it on a train.
I love your walks - great content. Thanks for uploading :)
Thanks Tanja
Thanks John, a real trip home for me as I lived in the area as a child between 1962 and 1980. I think I know the area better still than the town I live in now: been here 20 years!
Lloyds Park holds some memories for me playing there as a child, indeed, I still have the scar on my knee from falling into the moat/lake as child. We also used to go to the theatre on the island during the summer holidays as "they" put on plays etc to keep us kids off of the street. I loved the "River God" shot as indeed, I have two such pure white cats at home... must be a link there somewhere! And yes, we always thought there was a stream leading off of the lake down Winns Avenue as you suggest.
With regards to Higham Hill Library, I spent many an hour in there as a child and have a memory of the road outside flooding once and thus was closed for a period while "water works" were carried out. As I was at McEntee at the time, I guess this was between 1976 to 1980. Talking about the library, good to see it was spared the chop: libraries give us hope and knowledge.
You may not have noticed but Priors Croft, the road next to the library is blocked off. This road along with several others in the area was closed off to traffic in around 1973/74.... the first low traffic area I am aware of. The locals hated it at the time: bet they wouldn't go back to the old ways now.
Moving onto the football ground, as Robert states, it was poorly draining due to the water course and the fact that it was in the bottom of a valley. During a storm once, I saw water come down Luton Road and into the ground by the Dairy End.
You also stood on Higham Hill Road by a wire fence. This is the playing fields of a school: more about this in a second. Across the road (now a supermarket) was the chip shop we used for many years including after a match. Indeed, I could eat a 3p bag of chips in the time it took to walk home. If it wasn't for that chip shop, I would be half the man I am today! Next to the chip shop (to the left as you look at it), there used to be a billboard (not sure if it is still there), I am reasonably sure the brook ran there as one of the reasons the chip shop closed it that it kept flooding.
As you highlight, the brook would have run to the corner where you passed the drains. The site of the "new" (well they are new to me) flats was a giant frozen food factory. There was no sign of the brook here but on the wiggly bit where Sutherland Road starts I have a memory of there being an uncovered brook behind a house where a friend "Lee" lived (the white house on the corner). This may be just me just dreaming but who knows. The area of the new houses was still factory units then so we would not have gone exploring.
Almost coming to an end...honest.... a bit further on down Sutherland Road you stopped and look down Sutherland Road Path (it seemed half as wide as it used to be). Behind you and to the left of Stirling Road path was Higham Hill School. Pulled down when I was in the second year, (1968) this was moved to Higham Hill Road and became "Edward Redhead" before being replaced again with a new, new build some time in the 2000. The area cleared became a giant paper mill before being turned into horrible looking flats.
One final thing, walking down Blackhorse Land you stopped outside a Petrol Station where until the late 1970's stood an grand old house which was pulled down to build the petrol station. A shame really as it was a nice old building, although in a poor state of repair.
Thanks again for the video. Certainly took me back and sorry for the long post!
Thanks for those wonderful notes Ian - really helps build up the picture of the area
Fantastic effort John, really enjoyed that. Hope you enjoyed your beers.
thanks very much Jag - yes the beers went down a treat. Hope you're well
A great piece of River Hunting John . Walthamstow, Leytonstone and Leyton have provided great Football teams and players Ridgeway, David Beckham , Laurie Cunningham , I remember the Avenue appearing in the Walthamstow Guardian. Thanks for another great walk. 😊👍
Thanks Terry
Congrats on your new batch of subs! Always been dismayed as to why you don't have hundreds of thousands. It will be our pleasure to join you on that journey along with all the others. Well done John!
thanks so much Alex - that's very kind of you
great work
thanks George
My grandparents lived in Warner’s flat 244 Markhouse Road from their marriage to My Nan going into a home aged 93. As a child I stayed there a lot and grandad had an allotment near Markhouse Avenue.
Parade of shops called the"Marx" house
Always a pleasure, thx for the walk! COYS⚽️
Cheers 🍻
Thanks Jim
another terrific video, hope you enjoyed your Beers at the end of your walk....back in the 60s when beer was proper I used to love Charringtons, there was, maybe still is a Brewery in Bethnal Green...I know they became Bass Charrington and from then on it all went a bit Tits Up. Most of the beer here in Siam is a very flimsy lager, but Singha do make a Rice beer which is very nice and reminds me of when the London Breweries put out some decent stuff...Happy Days.
Another absolutely fascinating video 👍
5:24 Ever thought of doing Birketts Brooke..That ran through , Hounslow.Whitton ,Isleworth.. Twickenham border...There's only a bit of it left..the mouth runs into the river Crane in St Margaret's..Middlesex ... West London..
Super video again John. William Morris was certainly a Victorian eccentric and brave enough to do cosplay as well. I remember the big three amateur clubs of the 50s and 60s Walthamstow Avenue, Hereford and Bishop Auckland- all league teams feared them in the FA Cup all 3 were class but sad to hear Walthamstow Avenue are no more and this COVID might see others go to the wall.
thanks John - let's hope the Clubs survive - real lifeblood of the community
Really enjoyable.
love the videos John , I used to work in Bloomsbury and there was the river fleet which ran underneath mecklenbough sq ,
I remember we also pulled out an old wooden tree which was an old water pipe , maybe an old Roman water pipe
That's a curious story that needs to be followed up - I wonder what stream that was, too far west for the Fleet but perhaps a conduit draining into the Fleet, not far from Lamb's Conduit there
yeah near lambs conduit st , must be there, there is loads of raising water in that area it looks like it runs under a college near there called the goodenough college on the square , under the building and in the health club there is loads of labranths and chambers of raising water , they always get raising water problems , all next to the old foundering hospital corams fields.
Hi John I am enjoying the lost rivers series and ideas for a new walk could be lost football grounds !!............Cheers Kev
Thanks Kev - that's a great idea, somebody with a lot of knowledge on this has offered to help so I reckon that could happen this year with a bit of luck
Another good one, thanks.
thanks for watching GAP GAP
A few weeks ago I saw you across Wood Street where you seemed to be waiting, in front of one of the wonderful international groceries, by the overground station. I nearly crossed the street to talk to you but then felt shy. I've walked many of your routes but after seeing your videos always want to return - very inspiring.
Hi Laura - I was probably filming the previous video following a lost river that flows across Wood Street. Please do say Hi next time- always nice to meet people who watch the videos
@@JohnRogersWalks Yes, I watched it right away, curious about what the theme was, and then I went and traced your route (I'm living near there). I'll salute you next time.
Another river wonder that I don't even know. Great one John Rogers 👍
thanks Athos
Thanks for the upload John.
my pleasure Jason
@@JohnRogersWalks 👍
Another great video John 👏👏👏 This one is very personal to me as born and raised in Higham place. Remember unigate, bird's-eye factory (now chamberlain place) and Rediffusion the yellow building along Sutherland Rd. Also remember AW Alloys I think it was called that used to have a helicopter land there from time to time. And of course The Avenue football ground, where my brother got engaged. Great memories
Thanks for sharing those memories and info Dominic - really adds to the narrative of the river
Lovely job John.
Wonderful John,Thankyou.
cheers Kerry Anne
I was born in Ashbrook house Dagenham. I remember the brook at the end of the garden where my grandfather grew watercress. I guess Ashbrook court must now be on that site. It would be interesting to know if it is on 20th century maps and where it originated and ended. It is not clear on google earth when I look for it. Watching your hidden rivers videos has really got me thinking about it.
Wonderful John, great to see you on the site of the former Walsthamstow Avenue FC,also mentioning Leytonstone.Being something of a football ground connisseuer these are two of the fabled old grounds of London that i've seen pics of and wish i'd have visited, Have a great week John
thanks John - I've been fascinated with these clubs since I heard about them, growing up as I did watching Wycombe in the Isthmian League - very sad that there's no trace left behind
Very interesting video, I have a allotment plot on the higham hill common site, it has areas of the site that floods in the winter and 1 area which can only used as a wildlife nature area because it is normally always wet and floods in winter. Many rumours of a stream running through the allotment site.
Some intresting football facts there john thanks,
thanks - I've been looking for an opportunity to talk about Walthamstow Avenue for a while
Well never knew about that river. I remember the Leyton football ground as a kid my parents and aunt used to work behind the bar for a bit in its social club. The grounds were derelict back then. Never knew about the Walthamstow FC. Great walk and very interesting again John TY.
thanks Jason - I'd never heard of Walthamstow Avenue tbh even though they must have played against Wycombe when I used to watch the Wanderers in the mid-80s
23:42 behind the factories is where the river went. I would climb over there as a kid. No water though..a bit boggy maybe. From the factory to Black horse was a naughty short cut.
Thanks for the video John. My wife and I live in Co Tyrone. She's from Southend on Sea originally, lived for some years at Curtis Mill Green, Essex. Might be a nice area for a walk.
Cheers John - I’ve seen it on the map, will certainly plot out a route
@@JohnRogersWalks Thanks John, looking forward to the walk. Hope you get good weather.
Your films are one of the things that has kept me going through the lockdowns - thank you! Thinking of projects, did you ever find any of the the letters Buxton carved into the trees in Epping Forest to designate his routes?
Thanks so much Dominic. I don't actually know anything about the Buxton carvings but that sounds like a great quest. Do you have any info?
@@JohnRogersWalks I think he mentions in the book how he carved the letters he gave to the routes in his book onto trees at the start of each route? They might still be visible if one knows where to look.
another really enjoyable video john
thanks so much..really look forward to your work on sundays
Thanks Brian
Hope u enjoyed the ipa John well deserved.
Hey John another great video,I love all your posts but especially the river hunting ones. I've been out tracing all the ditches,brooks and streams, not difficult lately with all the rain and snow. Not far from me is Holliwell point, but as yet no sign of a well. Thanks so much for your posts
I remember commenting on an earlier Dagenham Brook video of yours that it linked up with Higham Hill brook around the business park north of Ferry Lane, as I'd seen the same 1840 map and description of the brook's route towards Chapel End and it correlated with my memories of the area, including the dip in Higham Hill Road. That 1840s map, an overhead photo of the estate being built, and contemporary maps all pointed to the brook hugging the allotments quite tightly, passing just to the east of Priory Court estate, continuing under Priors Croft near the junction of Warwick Road, near the library you showed (my local as a kid). I was always hoping you'd cover it in a video and walk more streets of my childhood in the process, so I was really pleased to discover this video. But must admit I was a bit surprised by the starting point for this video as I hadn't seen the earlier map of the stream coming out of Waterhouse along Winns Avenue. I can't see at what point the two brooks connect. Why does the earlier map not show the more northern route?
Thanks for that note Andrew - I still haven’t resolved this question.