Thanks for the lesson In my opinion the reason in this Ex is the cooler is empty so the clicker bed is too low We should have a clinker bed to have good heat transfer and good secondary temp 👌
Yes, the cooler got empty because the grates are running faster. You are right, retaining the clinker longer in the hot zone (higher clinker bed) will also improve the secondary air temperature. Thank you for the feedback!
Like we see the air is increased at constant damber open, the pressure decreased, and the secondary air temp. decreased also so the speed of clinker was high compared with speed of the kiln, my suggestion to have auto systems in control volume of air Flowmeter and auto system between the pressure of second room and speed of the cooler
That is a situation where you will need a very good operator in the field keeping an eye on the cooler. The risk is that if there is a lot of pressure under some of the compartments it could be that the fan is working at its limit capacity - called "shut off pressure". In this case you will have no flow in the cooler and will certainly damage the plates / bars. The "very good operator" the field should listen to the fans and actually stand next to the fan inlet to feel whether there is draft inwards or not. Make sure to analyze the fan curves and to run the fan below this shut off pressure. Difficult to explain the "how to do it" from the distance, but I hope this helps.
@@FredAubert thanks a lot sir we your notes is so good and your ways is really new for us... what we do is monitoring the pressure and make operator in the field monitor the bed I appreciate your recommendations so much sir 💗
@@FredAubert , I got some question about cover of grate: 1. Why use pebble stone filling in the lanes? 2. Can we use clinker(unburn or normal)? if can or can't, why? Also the stroke length of the grate,i.e eta cooler with 6 lanes: lane No.1 & 6(125mm) are shorter than lane No.2,3,4&5(180mm). Can you please explain about that too? Thank before hand.🙏
Hello Viden I presume that your questions relate to a restart after a major overhaul, that is with an empty cooler. The idea of pre-loading the lanes is to protect the plates and offer some initial resistance to air flow, at least till you have clinker dropping down from the cooler. You can use clinker, but it is good material and costly in comparison to pebbles / gravel. Unburnt clinker is not good for that purpose, it will fly away as soon as you start your fans. Concerning the late 1 and 6 (side lanes) lengths being shorter, one of the reasons I can see is to avoid forming so called "rat holes" and / or "red rivers" in the cooler. If 1 and 6 are shorter, this means you will never open gaps in those areas which in turn would ensure air distribution within the other lanes. I hope this clarifies your questions.... Bests Fred
Hello@@FredAubert , You're answering right on point sir. With your good explain like this, I should answer my senior questions now. Thank you very much!! Respect, Viden
Hello VBR Cement, I will attempt to answer. The speed to waste air damper automatically increases because it will try to maintain constant negative pressure of 0.2 mbar inside the hood. It means due to some changes in the cooler conditions, the negative pressure must have dropped below 0.2 mbar and therefore the air damper increased it speed. The higher pressure drop inside the hood can happen when clinker particles are finer, thickness of clinker on the grate is higher, grate speed is slower or the air damper fans are faster. The decrease in clinker temperature shows that there is better heat exchange. This suggests slower grate speed and better heat recuperation. Is my approach correct?
Hello Tri I am glad you had a bit of fun looking into the cooler video and I just gave you feedback on your reply, yes you are right, the grates are running faster, this makes a thinner clinker bed with the consequences you can see. Have you seen this other video on kiln operation? th-cam.com/video/i46gGIlaFNY/w-d-xo.html&
yes i would like to see it, hopely you make more videolessons, thank you for your fast respon too, it is my honour if you like to discuss more anytime 😊
At the moment I am quite busy with a project in Sudan, but as soon as I find some time my intention is to prepare more videos such as these.... Keep the good work!
Hi Wallace I am not very familiar with active lime kilns, but can imagine that the systems are very similar.... The only experience I had with lime kilns is that the material was fed as granules to the system and I found it very strange since for cement clinker, the raw material is a fine powder. Check the internet, you probably will find a few more explanations. Cheers Fred
Think about the other way around... the coarser the clinker the easier the air could find its way through it, thus the pressure would drop. Think also about how we determine cement Blaine. The finer the cement (higher Blaine) the longer it would take for the column of air to go through it. Lower air flow would mean higher undergrate pressure in our case of the clinker cooler. The example I have given relates to a higher grate speed. This would produce a thinner clinker bed = higher air flow = lower undergrate pressure. In this case the clinker temperature is lower because we kept the same amount of air blown through the undergrate fans. Look at the excess air fan: it is sucking more than on the previous settings to keep the hood pressure constant. Thank you for trying it out and if you have other questions let me know. Cheers Fred
@@vbrcement3666 Sir, very nicely explained... my question is how to judge the clinker bed? We are facing problem in getting the chamber pressure high although on checking through inspection window it is less.. what should be the bed height with fine and course clinkers?
@@anubhavsingh1889 Interesting to see you back here, I hope all is fine on your side! I believe that you have answered your own question, somehow. The cm of clinker bed can be "seen" very approximately through inspection doors. You need to have on the opposite wall of the cooler some marks / references which will give you an indication how much clinker you have on the cooler. The actual cm of clinker are not really important, but rather the pressure you can build up in the chamber. I suggest you follow what your manufacturer tells you and try to achieve the recommended pressure. You mention that it is difficult to get the pressure high enough. There are a few possible reasons for that, but the most common are leakages / deformations on the cooler beams or damaged seals. If this is the case, you will have to find new setpoints for operating the "damaged" cooler, having the main goal of achieving the best secondary (and tertiary) air temperatures. I don't have sufficient information about your kiln and cooler to give a formal appraisal. In case you need further advise, let me know, but to start with send me some screen shots of your kiln + cooler operating at nominal capacity. Cheers, Fred
@@FredAubert Thanks for replying Sir. Had we met somewhere as you wrote interesting to see me here!! Please take my apologies for not able to frame question properly. Actually my point was to make run cooler slower so as to enable clinker cooling and recuperation also. The cooler we have is Fons delta cooler replaced in dec 2020. So it's very new and in good shape. The speed is decided based on 2nd compartment chamber pressure which should be around 60mbar. But we are getting it around 68 to 70 mbar depending upon fan speed and clinkerisation. On checking from site inspection window we get the bed height as 400 - 500 mm.. I am not finding any option to share screenshot here. If you could suggest any other way where I can share screenshots for your reference.. Hope this time I framed my concern rightly. Looking forward to see your reply soon.. take care Sir.. Have a nice day
@@anubhavsingh1889 Hello Anubhav Yes, evidently I got it wrong, you seem to have too much pressure under compartment 2... Some plants would love to have such problems, usually they cannot manage to build up enough clinker bed and I would say that your 400 to 500 mm are very respectable! What I mean about a screenshot is from the monitors in the control room, it would help me to understand what is happening in your kiln and cooler. There is, normally, a possibility to create a "Print Screen" on the operator's panel, this would be ideal to have. Just from your comments I think that you may have a problem with the cooler control loops (PID controls) for the cooler speed and possibly for the cooler fan flows. On the other hand remember that the first purpose of the cooler is to recover thermal energy. Focus on achieving this, while making sure that you are protecting your equipment. Hard to help from the distance, but I guess that eventually we will find a solution. Best regards, Fred
hello my name is tri from indonesia. ill try to answer. since you set the fan speed by manual mode, i see the speed and damper of cf in not change, so i thing the problem comefromthebed of klinker become thinner because of faster grate speed setting. thanks
Hello Tri Apologies for the late reply, I was away working in a plant and could not really come back to my TH-cam channel. Yes you are right, there is a change in the clinker bed because the grate speed has increased.
Hello Kandavel My first comment is that your clinker is underburned. The reasons why you cannot achieve a proper burning / firing of your clinker may be multiple, and without any further details about your system I am not in a position to provide suggestions. For a start, look at the options to get your burning zone hotter. Good continuation, Fred
Sir i am in lab person in our side parameters are slightly change in rawmill residue 45 mic is 0.8% from 1.o%but now clinker not formed properly kiln showing in Dusty conditions and clinker come with brown powder this is reduced to strengthen
Happy new Year to you! Sorry to disappoint you but product fineness is just not sufficient for me to provide a realistic solution to your problems. Increasing the raw meal fineness should have improved the clinker burnability so there is something additional to the issue. The best is if your management invites me to visit your plant, then I can analyze what is happening and provide guidance. All the best, Fred
Sir me as a beginner how should i start to learn about integerated cement plant .because i have a dream to work in a cement industry.right now i am studying B E MECHANICAL ENGINEERING 1st year.
I think that the easiest would be to approach directly the plant and apply for a job there. It may not be "the dream job" at first, but if you become a good mechanical engineer, I am sure that the supervisors / managers will identify your potential and promote you! The key is, work hard and focus on your achievements. The rest will come by itself... Good luck! Fred
Very good information ji sir tq so much
For giving this information
Great to hear that you find this video useful, thank you for the feedback!
Keep safe and
Best regards, Fred
Thanks for the lesson
In my opinion the reason in this Ex is the cooler is empty so the clicker bed is too low
We should have a clinker bed to have good heat transfer and good secondary temp 👌
Yes, the cooler got empty because the grates are running faster. You are right, retaining the clinker longer in the hot zone (higher clinker bed) will also improve the secondary air temperature.
Thank you for the feedback!
Thank you sir for sharing use full knowledge of Cooler operation. Sir your videos improve our operating knowledge
I am glad to hear that this video was useful for you!
Please also have a look at the one on kiln operation
th-cam.com/video/i46gGIlaFNY/w-d-xo.html&
Like we see the air is increased at constant damber open, the pressure decreased, and the secondary air temp. decreased also so the speed of clinker was high compared with speed of the kiln, my suggestion to have auto systems in control volume of air Flowmeter and auto system between the pressure of second room and speed of the cooler
Very good observations, well done!
@@FredAubert sir there are in some plants cooler without Flowmeter of the air just the pressure, how could we control their
That is a situation where you will need a very good operator in the field keeping an eye on the cooler. The risk is that if there is a lot of pressure under some of the compartments it could be that the fan is working at its limit capacity - called "shut off pressure". In this case you will have no flow in the cooler and will certainly damage the plates / bars.
The "very good operator" the field should listen to the fans and actually stand next to the fan inlet to feel whether there is draft inwards or not.
Make sure to analyze the fan curves and to run the fan below this shut off pressure.
Difficult to explain the "how to do it" from the distance, but I hope this helps.
@@FredAubert thanks a lot sir we your notes is so good and your ways is really new for us... what we do is monitoring the pressure and make operator in the field monitor the bed
I appreciate your recommendations so much sir 💗
Thank you nicely done 👍🏻
You are most welcome, glad you liked it!
Very nice explanation. It's would be great if you make a video about ETA cooler. also about the motion control of its.
I am glad you liked it! Yes it is a good idea to work on a specific ETA cooler, I shall work on this!
@@FredAubert , I got some question about cover of grate:
1. Why use pebble stone filling in the lanes?
2. Can we use clinker(unburn or normal)? if can or can't, why?
Also the stroke length of the grate,i.e eta cooler with 6 lanes: lane No.1 & 6(125mm) are shorter than lane No.2,3,4&5(180mm). Can you please explain about that too?
Thank before hand.🙏
Hello Viden
I presume that your questions relate to a restart after a major overhaul, that is with an empty cooler.
The idea of pre-loading the lanes is to protect the plates and offer some initial resistance to air flow, at least till you have clinker dropping down from the cooler.
You can use clinker, but it is good material and costly in comparison to pebbles / gravel.
Unburnt clinker is not good for that purpose, it will fly away as soon as you start your fans.
Concerning the late 1 and 6 (side lanes) lengths being shorter, one of the reasons I can see is to avoid forming so called "rat holes" and / or "red rivers" in the cooler. If 1 and 6 are shorter, this means you will never open gaps in those areas which in turn would ensure air distribution within the other lanes.
I hope this clarifies your questions....
Bests
Fred
Hello@@FredAubert ,
You're answering right on point sir. With your good explain like this, I should answer my senior questions now.
Thank you very much!!
Respect,
Viden
great video
Good to hear you liked it, thank you !
Good information ji sir tq so much guru ji
Hello VBR Cement,
I will attempt to answer. The speed to waste air damper automatically increases because it will try to maintain constant negative pressure of 0.2 mbar inside the hood. It means due to some changes in the cooler conditions, the negative pressure must have dropped below 0.2 mbar and therefore the air damper increased it speed. The higher pressure drop inside the hood can happen when clinker particles are finer, thickness of clinker on the grate is higher, grate speed is slower or the air damper fans are faster. The decrease in clinker temperature shows that there is better heat exchange. This suggests slower grate speed and better heat recuperation. Is my approach correct?
i will calculate the thing:)
Once if kiln got down side how restore the situation in minimal time, please.
Sir as bed height decreased due to increased grate spees
thank you for the lesson, i am Trifrom indonesia and i've 4 years experience as an enginner. i am still need more lesson, plis give me feedback
Hello Tri
I am glad you had a bit of fun looking into the cooler video and I just gave you feedback on your reply, yes you are right, the grates are running faster, this makes a thinner clinker bed with the consequences you can see.
Have you seen this other video on kiln operation? th-cam.com/video/i46gGIlaFNY/w-d-xo.html&
yes i would like to see it, hopely you make more videolessons, thank you for your fast respon too, it is my honour if you like to discuss more anytime 😊
At the moment I am quite busy with a project in Sudan, but as soon as I find some time my intention is to prepare more videos such as these....
Keep the good work!
Sir,
Is this basically the same process used for hydraulic lime and Portland cement?
Thank you
Hi Wallace
I am not very familiar with active lime kilns, but can imagine that the systems are very similar.... The only experience I had with lime kilns is that the material was fed as granules to the system and I found it very strange since for cement clinker, the raw material is a fine powder.
Check the internet, you probably will find a few more explanations.
Cheers
Fred
The finer the clinker size, the lower will be the undergrate pressure and low clinker temp
Think about the other way around... the coarser the clinker the easier the air could find its way through it, thus the pressure would drop.
Think also about how we determine cement Blaine. The finer the cement (higher Blaine) the longer it would take for the column of air to go through it. Lower air flow would mean higher undergrate pressure in our case of the clinker cooler.
The example I have given relates to a higher grate speed. This would produce a thinner clinker bed = higher air flow = lower undergrate pressure. In this case the clinker temperature is lower because we kept the same amount of air blown through the undergrate fans. Look at the excess air fan: it is sucking more than on the previous settings to keep the hood pressure constant.
Thank you for trying it out and if you have other questions let me know.
Cheers
Fred
@@vbrcement3666 Sir, very nicely explained... my question is how to judge the clinker bed? We are facing problem in getting the chamber pressure high although on checking through inspection window it is less.. what should be the bed height with fine and course clinkers?
@@anubhavsingh1889
Interesting to see you back here, I hope all is fine on your side!
I believe that you have answered your own question, somehow. The cm of clinker bed can be "seen" very approximately through inspection doors. You need to have on the opposite wall of the cooler some marks / references which will give you an indication how much clinker you have on the cooler.
The actual cm of clinker are not really important, but rather the pressure you can build up in the chamber. I suggest you follow what your manufacturer tells you and try to achieve the recommended pressure.
You mention that it is difficult to get the pressure high enough. There are a few possible reasons for that, but the most common are leakages / deformations on the cooler beams or damaged seals. If this is the case, you will have to find new setpoints for operating the "damaged" cooler, having the main goal of achieving the best secondary (and tertiary) air temperatures.
I don't have sufficient information about your kiln and cooler to give a formal appraisal.
In case you need further advise, let me know, but to start with send me some screen shots of your kiln + cooler operating at nominal capacity.
Cheers, Fred
@@FredAubert Thanks for replying Sir. Had we met somewhere as you wrote interesting to see me here!! Please take my apologies for not able to frame question properly.
Actually my point was to make run cooler slower so as to enable clinker cooling and recuperation also. The cooler we have is Fons delta cooler replaced in dec 2020. So it's very new and in good shape. The speed is decided based on 2nd compartment chamber pressure which should be around 60mbar. But we are getting it around 68 to 70 mbar depending upon fan speed and clinkerisation. On checking from site inspection window we get the bed height as 400 - 500 mm.. I am not finding any option to share screenshot here. If you could suggest any other way where I can share screenshots for your reference.. Hope this time I framed my concern rightly. Looking forward to see your reply soon.. take care Sir.. Have a nice day
@@anubhavsingh1889
Hello Anubhav
Yes, evidently I got it wrong, you seem to have too much pressure under compartment 2...
Some plants would love to have such problems, usually they cannot manage to build up enough clinker bed and I would say that your 400 to 500 mm are very respectable!
What I mean about a screenshot is from the monitors in the control room, it would help me to understand what is happening in your kiln and cooler. There is, normally, a possibility to create a "Print Screen" on the operator's panel, this would be ideal to have.
Just from your comments I think that you may have a problem with the cooler control loops (PID controls) for the cooler speed and possibly for the cooler fan flows.
On the other hand remember that the first purpose of the cooler is to recover thermal energy. Focus on achieving this, while making sure that you are protecting your equipment.
Hard to help from the distance, but I guess that eventually we will find a solution.
Best regards, Fred
hello my name is tri from indonesia. ill try to answer. since you set the fan speed by manual mode, i see the speed and damper of cf in not change, so i thing the problem comefromthebed of klinker become thinner because of faster grate speed setting. thanks
Yes, you are absolutely right! Thank you for the feedback and I hope that you enjoyed the small video
Hello Tri
Apologies for the late reply, I was away working in a plant and could not really come back to my TH-cam channel.
Yes you are right, there is a change in the clinker bed because the grate speed has increased.
which software was used for the simulation?
Sir clinker come in light brown colour and high freelime please give your suggestions
Hello Kandavel
My first comment is that your clinker is underburned. The reasons why you cannot achieve a proper burning / firing of your clinker may be multiple, and without any further details about your system I am not in a position to provide suggestions.
For a start, look at the options to get your burning zone hotter.
Good continuation, Fred
Sir i am in lab person in our side parameters are slightly change in rawmill residue 45 mic is 0.8% from 1.o%but now clinker not formed properly kiln showing in Dusty conditions and clinker come with brown powder this is reduced to strengthen
Happy new Year to you!
Sorry to disappoint you but product fineness is just not sufficient for me to provide a realistic solution to your problems.
Increasing the raw meal fineness should have improved the clinker burnability so there is something additional to the issue.
The best is if your management invites me to visit your plant, then I can analyze what is happening and provide guidance.
All the best, Fred
Sir me as a beginner how should i start to learn about integerated cement plant .because i have a dream to work in a cement industry.right now i am studying B E MECHANICAL ENGINEERING 1st year.
I think that the easiest would be to approach directly the plant and apply for a job there. It may not be "the dream job" at first, but if you become a good mechanical engineer, I am sure that the supervisors / managers will identify your potential and promote you!
The key is, work hard and focus on your achievements. The rest will come by itself...
Good luck!
Fred