CRC Synod 2024 Day 1 A New Generation Takes Charge. Delegate Subscription Challenges
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ก.ย. 2024
- @crcna Friday Morning - June 14 - Synod 2024 www.youtube.co...
@abideproject CRCNA Synod 2024 Update 2 | Friday, June 14 • CRCNA Synod 2024 Updat...
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21yo christian with an Anabaptist background attending a CRC church while away for college, speaking here. Appreciate the Synod commentary, Paul! Love getting to know the tradition better. Keep being awesome :)
All helpful, Paul.
Why is this so exciting for all of us!? :D
My take, it's watching the titanic sink, and curious about why that might be. TLC does investigate what happened and why. Perhaps we are excited about what will come next. I also don't think we should be excited, we're going through turbulent times...
@@JohnnyMUTube You're confusing the CRC with the RCA. The RCA went affirming and lost the majority of their congregations.
Instead of that blunder, the CRC is reading the writing on various walls in our culture -- Disney, Target, Bud Light -- and sticking with Christian teaching.
I don't think the future will be as much "turbulent", as the swinging back of a pendulum. 2022 was peak "pride"; what we're seeing now is its inevitable fall.
It will pick up speed before it stops, so I guess that's a bit like "turbulence".
Thanks for always doing these! Cannot ever watch all of synod but your recap videos are great.
"The weapons you craft today may be used against you in the future" - if only our politicians could learn this. This idea is at the heart of classical liberal ideas of freedom of speech, religion, association and disassociation, rule of law, limited government and limited laws, etc.
I’m here for the interruptions. Keep up the great work.
Traditionalists are “damned if you do or damned if you don’t.”
They are either too harsh or too soft with their careful language. They were railed at last year for not “winning with grace” and being insensitive.
Radical activists use language to manipulate, not communicate. There is no honesty in them.
They will continue to take whatever means are successful.
Thanks for doing these Paul. I feel like I have a ringside seat. I never thought I would be interested in following synod this closely, nor ever have!
It's a bit like a police procedural.
All in all I have to say they're behaving very professionally.
I find the gentle therapeutic tone like someone talking to children. Bring back Paul DeVries. I'm pro gravitas.
So a question may be: Is this simply a matter of personality and/or generational, or is it being done intentionally?
@@tylerhelfers7693 I don't know. There was a section of the PCA General Assembly where speakers kept boasting about their "command voice" and being ex-military. It made me wince but frankly a leadership position requires a man to put away the sing-song voice when you are about to condemn people. Being nice is a good way to lose control of the Body.
It's difficult for me, and my spidy sensors, to differentiate between that tone and wolf in 🐑 clothing...
Best time of the year!
My live tweet from watching this morning:
CRC synod delegates are now being forced to sit through a Progressive “privilege” statement and a Better Together themed lecture from Thrive.
That is not a good sign. Who is making the statement, and who gave them the platform to do so?
This is my own tweet watching the livestream. I am not CRC but I’ve watched every session over the past few years, have been involved in Paul’s online community for the past few years, am friends with a CRC pastor, and have been observing this closely because this CRC moment is a microcosm of these progressive movements that have caused splits across the mainline and reflect our current novel cultural moment.
Those were my honest thoughts watching that live.
I edited my comment to make sure folks know this is from me.
"14% are affirming"
Something between 8-14% is the percentage of activists in the overall population. It might be higher in clergy, since they (as "influencers", college students, etc) have been more of a target for indoctrination.
LET'S GET READY TO *RUMBLE!!!!!*
Have you heard the guy who introduces JBP in his "We Who Wrestle With God" tour? He sounds just like that, but I think the line itself is trademarked.
Got to the end and suddenly self-conscious about leaving comments. So much encouragement for comments over the years and now Brutus' knife...
Yea, what's with the shade? Of course the frequent talkers have to talk so the infrequent talkers will be prompted to speak up or "no comment". I'm standing on the hill, ready your arrows you silent knaves. Step forth from the shadows or "affirm" by your absence!!! 😊
I don't think he meant it that way.
@@stephenhoughton632 yes I'm joking which Paul appreciates:)
@@stephenhoughton632 :-)
"Identity is at the heart of so many things"
This is why our current culture is such a mess. "Identity" is largely nonsense. As St. Paul pointed out, he could be "all things to all people", i.e., fulfilling whatever stack of expectations he came across, any of which people today mistake for "identity".
People are more complex than an "identity", and ignoring this, is leading to madness.
Here we go.
As a Mennonite, I'm struck by the cultural similarities and then I'm jarred by the theological differences. I can appreciate PVK's Calvinism...the hardnosed YRR approach not so much. I can't imagine the moderates are feeling very good about this synod either and it will be interesting to see when they pull a Paul Devries and push back against the conservatives. When you're the moderate and they push out the progressives, now you're the progressives which isn't a comfortable place for moderates. From an outsider's perspective, the near-pass of the unseating of delegates is a sign of overreach to come.
It is good to see Joel Wentz featured. He does excellent reviews of important books as the mainstay of his channel.
As someone that has been in church circles for a while, there is a way that people use quoting scripture as a ham-fisted sledgehammer to try to make their following assertion unassailable. "You're not arguing with scripture, are you?" It's a huge turn-off.
People need to know that the word of God is a sword and not a club.
"We need to proceed in a spirit of love and charity"
"Admonishing the sinner" is considered to be a "spiritual act of mercy". It is a charitable act, not an uncharitable one.
If I understand correctly Majority Report Committee 8 from last year recommended all Confessional Difficulty Gravamen around Q&A 108 be disallowed because Synod has already ruled on the issue. Of course they didn't get to Committee 8. This would have made things even more murky if local councils don't care.
Paul when you said subscribe the button glowed.
Aleah was a classmate of mine at CTS.
Sean Baker mentioned that "people always remember the decisions of synod and the way they are arrived at." I get the sense that the officers are keenly aware of and it will be interesting to see how this plays out as synod progresses.
I think this tone is actually a strategy. It's likely that the conservatives will get their desired outcomes, but at least they will be "nice" while they do it. It's quite brilliant
I think it's now common practice in any disciplinary context in our culture since the counter culture. "Both sides" do it. JK Rolling illustrated the dynamic perfectly with her character Dolorus Umbrage.
@@PaulVanderKlay Well kind of. She was a chericature, even then.
@@stephenhoughton632 She was an indication of the passive-aggressive feminization of our culture generally.
I suppose we're not going to get a yearly update from the Calvin President this year, are we ?
"The identity is unchangeable and unshakeable, not the catechism"
So you're saying your catechism is wrong, then?
"Identity" is just a stack of expectations. There's nothing sacred about them. We need to stop thinking in those terms, if we want to be sane again.
All the world’s a stage,
And all the men and women merely players;
They have their exits and their entrances,
And one man in his time plays many parts,
His acts being seven ages. At first the infant,
Mewling and puking in the nurse’s arms;
And then the whining schoolboy, with his satchel
And shining morning face, creeping like snail
Unwillingly to school. And then the lover,
Sighing like furnace, with a woeful ballad
Made to his mistress’ eyebrow. Then a soldier,
Full of strange oaths, and bearded like the pard,
Jealous in honor, sudden and quick in quarrel,
Seeking the bubble reputation
Even in the cannon’s mouth. And then the justice,
In fair round belly with good capon lined,
With eyes severe and beard of formal cut,
Full of wise saws and modern instances;
And so he plays his part. The sixth age shifts
Into the lean and slippered pantaloon,
With spectacles on nose and pouch on side;
His youthful hose, well saved, a world too wide
For his shrunk shank; and his big manly voice,
Turning again toward childish treble, pipes
And whistles in his sound. Last scene of all,
That ends this strange eventful history,
Is second childishness and mere oblivion,
Sans teeth, sans eyes, sans taste, sans everything.
The smiles on both of their faces when he says "I would like to challenge the chair," is evidence how scripted this whole thing is. Someone needs to give these guys a few acting lessons.
"It doesn't mean you don't like him" is code for "facts, not relationships".
This is the most sickening 15 minutes of Synod I've watched for a long time.
Like anyone was going to write a motion like that, and not challenge the chair if ruled out of order??????
A David Attenborough voice-over would be rather interesting.
all I know is that if your last name is DeVries no matter how much you really know , you are "IN like Flynn" in the CRC/Calvin
I’m here.
Seems like Synod 2023 was just yesterday.
Here for it
"Whether they should stay or leave"
We let the wolves stay in the sheepfold? How is that "kind and gentle"?
"But their sheep's clothing is so very nice and soft!"
Interesting to get a peak into the bureaucratic process from someone who has no experience with these kinds of committees
"If they're going to make an unorthodox statement of faith, they're going to do it on a website"
Which means the activists only have to get influence over the person who runs the website -- NOT the congregation, or even the pastor.
Interesting that you should touch on the shift from formal to casual dress. That is the very visible signal that has struck me as an outsider. Almost my first thoughts were, I wonder when this preference for casual clothes was introduced, and what is it intended to signal. To me, it gives an air of a casual and sloppy attitude, as if the whole business were a human centered thing, concerned with worldly ease and comfort, rather than a more austere and serious business involving weighty responsibility before God. I know that dress is no guarantee of attitude, whether of seriousness or sloppiness, but I think it is deliberately chosen to set a particular tone. The same is true of how people present themselves in worship. How many of the casual dressers woud show up at a wedding, or a state function like that?
Practically, formal dress in January would be easy. Formal dress in June is largely impractical. Why show up at Synod soaked through your shirt?
@@matthewkilbride1669 A nice white shirt, even with necktie, might be cooler than those coloured ones, and they do make lightweight suits! ; )
@@anselman3156 I'm actually a fan of dress codes, so I'd be all for that, I just think it should be seasonally appropriate (as a fairly profuse sweater). I think you can look formal in any clothes, so long as they're worn with dignity and reflect a collective attitude of the larger body. A roomful of smelly, uncomfortable people for the sake of formality has always struck me as crazy though.
@@matthewkilbride1669 What are fans for?! ; )
Present.
A video on confessionality would be helpful. I still don’t know what that is.
You have to sign a document indicating your agreement with the Apostles’ Creed, the Nicene Creed, and the Athanasian Creed, the Belgic Confession, the Heidelberg Catechism, and the Canons of Dort in order to be an office bearer (elder, deacon , pastor, professor, etc.) in the CRC.
@@Phlebas9202 Ha! We don't need no stinkin' video, because Phlebas did the whole job in one sentence. 🙂
@@Phlebas9202 Do these include the Ten Commandments?
@@jimluebke3869 Lord's Day 34-44 Jim. Heidelberg.
@@Phlebas9202 Well then, sounds like the chair was out of order then.
I encourage one of the delegates to motion for Synod to be moved to different CRC locations every year; rather than always have it in Grand Rapids MI. Take a cue from our RCA cousins
Synod 2025 is in Toronto.
This is up there with Masters weekend!
We have come a long way from the Cadaver Synod of 897 or the anathemas thrown around in the Great Schism of 1054, haven't we. I think the Church still struggles how to work within these two teachings of Christ:
Matthew 10: 34 “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36 And a person's enemies will be those of his own household.
Matthew 7: 12 “So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.
I finally made a PVK video!
Congratulations. Sometime tells me you're probably going to be in more of them. :)
Or will we hear something from Greg Elzinga ?
is steve devries related to bob devries (former sem professor) ?
Interesting that a lot of people put a lot into this, a big investment. Contrasts to some of the posing primping and vapidity of our national congress.
Synod! Our yearly political Pascha!
Oh my! :)
My soccer days are over! Lol
You should start playing hockey!
@@lrmydvrs, my soccer career lasted for 1 min on the field. I’m guessing I wouldn’t make it 30 seconds on ice!
woke enjoyment turned back on Progressive. Conservatives Christians been playing this game yo since Moral Majority original OG woke
Kihn Path
"for some, church is a policeman".
41:21 I might be wrong but it seems like there is a greater awareness that this type of language is highly manipulative. It acts as a shield against criticism (“I’m so harmless and non-threatening”) and can act as a sugar coating for poison pills. I kinda pine for the old days when guys would just say things matter-of-fact as they saw it. But now we have to try to filter out all the emotional countermeasures that people deploy.
But if they didn't do it they would be condemned for that.
@@stephenhoughton632 True, by some people. But at some point you have to recognize the play that’s being run (emotional manipulation) and show that you’re resistant to it and aren’t playing by their rules anymore.
I was really trying to make this make sense and I could not ... what is even happening there ?. Good luck with what you're on about, but to me this all seems really silly, haha
"Three millennials and an Xer"
There is a serious problem with Xers getting passed over, here.
There's so much going on here, I wouldn't even know where to start. I was born right at the front edge of this "generation," this unfortunate group of people who were cast adrift into some kind of in-between time in terms of history and culture. Even the novel "Generation X" managed to convey some of this sense of "why did we get stuck here with all of this, and what are we supposed to do about it?" Of course that's generalizing, but all the same I'm not surprised to see a certain amount of "getting passed over."
I assume "no comment" means passive agreement.
No comment.
Don't forget to brush your teeth! :)
Or possibly passive aggressive.
It can also mean, "I've afraid of the activists".
I have a very hard time seeing how Abide is kinder and gentler. They may be good at soothsaying...being snakes in the grass. But it is a facade. The hammer is still present. The interaction between Buikema and Monroe felt very set up.
You should get your Israeli Wrestler on to talk about how Monroe is the Heel and Buikema becomes the Face.
Your online interactions around this topic lately indicate quite clearly together, is not in fact, better despite support for that particular movement.
"Admonishing the sinner" is a spiritual act of mercy.
Affirming them to persist in grave sin, is not.
Sorry...I'm getting late night brain and should go to sleep instead of commenting. But when Buikema invites people to stand, no one stood. Oh wait, I mean, one person stood....to drop another "people's elbow" on the opposition. Why was he recognized? How did he get that opportunity when most of the room should have been standing at the president's invitation? Oh, because this is wrestling.
He in actuality (not literally) looks at the guy who he knows is going to stand up next. It's like they took a week in Michigan to sit around and plan their first moves.
I have seen "magic tricks" by my very young children pulled off with greater panache than this.
Better Together. Say it with me now. Better Together.
Anyone that read the agenda knew that Minnkota had promised to stand up and protest over this matter. It was plenty public for any that paid attention or cared…. Maybe lay off the tin foil????