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Does massage flush toxins? What about lactic acid?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 มี.ค. 2017
- This is for massage clients and therapists: What are these "toxins" that you've heard about, and can massage flush them out? Do you have lactic acid crystals in your muscles causing pain? Spoiler: All of these are massage myths.
0:53 Does massage flush toxins?
1:15 Does massage increase circulation?
2:28 Can blood become stagnant?
2:50 Do my muscles have lactic acid crystals?
3:30 What's that "crunchy" feeling in my muscles?
4:00 Why do massage therapists talk about toxins?
5:06 Why am I in pain after a massage?
For massage therapists:
6:40 What are some actual toxins?
7:40 How does the body deal with toxins?
9:16 Can massage detoxify the body?
9:40 Lactic acid as a useful resource
11:22 Why we should drop "toxins"
If you're a massage client, it's possible that your massage therapist has told you that you're having all sorts of toxins flushed out (usually lactic acid) during your sessions, and that you need to drink plenty of water to keep from feeling sore the next day.
This is false, and it's based on the idea that massage somehow increases circulation in a unique way, or that there are congested areas in your muscles where old/toxic blood is pooling. The fact is that, unless you have a circulatory problem, your body is exceptionally good at keeping your blood chemistry in balance. Lactic acid is recycled almost immediately, and any other potentially toxic chemicals are dealt with by your liver, kidneys, lymph nodes, and blood enzymes. Your muscles are constantly being flushed and replenished, and you don't need external intervention to ensure that (with some exceptions, such as for people with limited mobility or circulatory problems; these still won't result in crystals accumulating in your muscles!).
If your massage therapist tells you that you experience soreness or sickness because of your own body's toxins, they're passing along a myth. The more likely explanation is that they did too much, too soon, and that they need to be less aggressive in future massages.
Massage therapists: It's time to drop the lactic acid thing. Lactate is a natural metabolic intermediary, forming the bridge between anaerobic and aerobic respiration. It is immediately recycled when oxygen is available, or, in the case of a large excess, will be whisked away by your circulation to be turned into glucose. We only excrete it in cases of extreme hyperlactatemia: www.ncbi.nlm.n...
Even in cases of huge jumps in serum lactate (after lots of sprinting, for instance), the body is able to return the levels to normal within hours: www.ncbi.nlm.n... (this article is a great primer for current information on lactate and exercise).
So, let's give lactic acid a rest for a while. Pain is complicated, and massage isn't all about affecting the structure of our clients' bodies. I'd like for us to inform our clients about their physiology, but we should be tentative when we're talking about the causes of pain.
Let me know what you think, and what you'd like to see next! If you'd like to see my rant on "knots," check it out here: • What are "muscle knots...
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Is it strange that I love watching your videos and my career has nothing to do with massage therapy? I'm not even an amateur therapist, I just find the subject matter interesting.
I used to watch massage videos all the time and then I went to school for it and now I'm an RMT :)
ysabella20 not at all strange. Massage is an amazing skill to have :)
@@sarahgoddard2001 What is RMT? MT I know probably, but "R"? Rebel?
@@observinthelaws oh you're so close. :P In Alberta we are Registered Massage Therapists. That basically means we have all our licenses and graduated from an actual 2200 hr program and then became registered with an association. Its not regulated here yet so people can be a massage therapist, not be registered, and have like 3 months of training. Insurance companies will only accept bills from RMT's now though.
@@sarahgoddard2001 Interesting! Too bad it's not yet regulated. That has to change. 2200h is a lot. It's a 2-year program?
As a massage client, this was very much appreciated.
I have so many clients come in with the "no pain, no gain" mentality. The relief on some peoples faces after telling them it's not always the best approach to treatment is nice to see. I would love to see a video on your techniques and thoughts on lymphatic drainage. Thank you so much for your videos!
I've had a really good light pressure massage that got just as deep into my tissue and relaxed my muscles with expert technique. However, I've had other light pressure therapist make me feel like I paid them $100 to rub lotion on my body 😩. So disappointing but you look bad if you refuse to pay them for doing absolutely nothing and rushing your massage beat the timer. When a therapist rushes through my massage, it leaves me more anxious than when I walked in.
@@ThatLady365 You’re so right! That’s why I go and get Thai massage and not a massage therapist.
Hello Ian! I am a massage therapist that has been taught and told my patients about toxins. I strive to give the best information and self care for my patients to learn. So I thank you Ian for your knowledge!
Thank you so much. I hear about toxins and water after every massage and I struggle with everything I have not to say anything. Hydrating is important with or without a massage and toxins won’t be released by touching someone.
@@brayan8346 surely tho, by "touching someone" you certainly begin a process by which their own healing system will take care of what it needs to be done. Massage can certainly help with heart rate and that determines the blood distribution in the body....or doesn't it?
Bravo! Best summary I've seen yet on the subject without requiring hours and hours of biochemistry and physiology classes to get the point across--all without "talking down." Thank you so much for all the time and dedication you put into making these videos for clients and other LMTs.
Thanks so much, Dawn!
So the byproduct lactic acid after the anaerobic exercise it's not to blame for the muscle pain? I mean cramps in the lower extremities for example. great videos btw ty
Thank you Brother Sloth! You've got great info with simple explanations, I always learn something new
Thank you so much for this Ian. I'm glad that there is a therapist who can simultaneously debunk some claims about massage therapy without demeaning the profession.
I appreciate that. I do love massage, and I just want us to do right by our clients!
Ian this is your best video yet! YES!!!! I'm a pharmacist, so my area of focus is just s small fraction of what your knowledge base is, but everything you discuss is sooo accurate! Thank you for educating and dispelling myths. I can't wait to meet you in person--your videos are amazing!
Thanks Marc, and I'm grateful for your professional input!
Thankyou so much Ian! Ive been a massage therapist for 11 years and your videos are extremley refreshing, helpful and useful!
As a practicing LMT, it's very difficult to inform people about the truth in the "toxic" debate because people have been fed the same misleading information for decades. When I have a client on my table and they say "I can feel my toxins releasing" it's seriously blows my mind. Post session I always tell my clients to drink water, simply because staying hydrated is essential. Not for any other reason. Thank you for this video. It will definitely be going on my business FB page.
I get that "science hasn't backed up toxic, lactic acid, or like in kind." But the fact that my clients excuse themselves to urinate and blow there nose during sessions speaks volumes of what the massage is doing to "flush" things out.
Furthermore when a client swears on their own how much better they feel and how ROM is better, that is the goal.
So instead of focusing on "words" focus on skill. Tell your clients to relax and let your skills speak for you. I don't agree with you. My massages are definitely making a difference and something is flushing.
This is SO refreshing to see someone in this field speak this way. In an ocean of misinformation and pseudoscience, it is almost unheard of. Unfortunately with most people who are scientifically illiterate, no amount of reason, evidence or argument will make them budge one bit. You almost always get the same response when defending alternative modalities. "Have you given it a try" and "It worked for me" then the hand.
Ian! I really appreciate your gentle approach towards demystifying these popularly ambiguous topics. My school in Austin, TX totally suggested these myths as implicit truths to students (i.e. me). After watching your video things feel clearer, and I don't feel lesser or "dumb"for having gone through that process. Many thanks! Keep it up :)
I think we all got some dubious information in school (be that massage school or college!), and that doesn't lessen the value of all the important and useful things we learned. Thanks for the kind words, Christopher!
I came here by accident and couldn't stop watching You Ian. What a great talk. All clear, honest and positive. Thank You.
Thank God someone else besides me gets it. I have never said that massage releases toxins. I have looked in vain for these mysterious "toxins", and nothing physiologically has ever alluded to what they are. This is the most important video on massage out there. I applaud you. Thank you for making this video.
MS, what about lymphatic massage? The toxins I refer to are the toxins in our lymphatic fluid throughout our tissue space - being directed to our nodes or possible misdirection to an area that the client experiences swelling on a normal basis. And I speak of waste of cellular respiration, especially when the muscles are healing. Yes the body performs all these functions, but doesn't adding water help to move along this waste (waste that can become "toxic", or rather cause symptoms, if not handled properly or efficiently by our systems in place)?
From the research I've read, being dehydrated can indeed impede things like exercise recovery, but I've never seen evidence for excessive hydration being superior to regular hydration. When my clients ask about drinking water after a massage, I just tell them to drink when they're thirsty. Our bodies tend to do an excellent job of dealing with excess and damage, so my default response is to let it do its thing. For clients who have edema, I do think that manual lymphatic drainage can offer relief, but it does tend to be temporary. Still, I think that brief respite could be useful for a recovering body, so I'm a fan of the modality!
Massage Sloth, your ignorance is showing. It is unwise to attemt to "educate" beyond your knowledge and education limitations.
@@jopainting1668 Jo how about you put the paper bag down and wipe the paint off your face.
@@jopainting1668 He's actually right on point. So, I don't know what you're criticizing about.
@@MassageSloth you didn't actually respond to the portion surrounding the toxins and bacteria found within the lymph system that are very much in existence. What say you about them?
We can't remove the tissue but we can absolutely breakdown "crunchy" CT to improve mobility. It doesn't have to be super painful. Also don't knock deep work. Working within tolerance is the most important but DOMS from massage aren't a bad thing in and of themselves. We are manipulating tissue, bout to get inflamation in the more worked areas. Bruising bad, light soreness totally fine. Hence the working within tolerance.
I fully agree with the majority of this video about the toxin issues however. Wishy washy talk of toxins is for spas not therapeutic massage. We need more evidence based RMTs. Cheers everyone
Thank you for promoting science! I value getting massages, but do inward 'eyerolls' (outwardly, say thank you and smile pleasantly) when a cup of water is handed to me and the 'toxins' issue comes up at the end. For the record, old lactic acid myths are *not* what Registered Dietitian Nutritionists are taught in Nutritional Biochemistry. Science!
I'm happy it isn't in your country, unfortunately here in Brazil the nutritionists are taught to believe in these myths and use'em for whatever reason.
Thanks so much for this information! In a former life I was a biochemist/molecular biologist. Your facts and presentation were accurate, appropriate, and so important. As practitioners of CAM we need to present correct info to our clients both for their understanding and for our credibility. There is still so much that we have yet to understand and describe scientifically, but basic physiology and metabolic pathways are no longer mysterious (and no less wonderous)!
Thanks for the backup, Liza, and I agree completely!
Thank you.
Hello Massage Sloth. I have watched some of your videos this morning and I am very interested in what you say. My Mum has been doing massage for many years and she too used to talk about loosening/moving those toxins and needing to drink lots o water to flush them out. She was alos someone that said that it was ok to have pain during and after a massage, that is was a good thing. Now she did lots of different things, Aromatherapy, Reflexology, Meridians, Deep Tissue Massage, Cupping ?, rolling the tissue/skin, etc. I always loved getting massages from her, yes, sometimes it really, really hurt, but in the end I always felt great. I am 49 years old, I have always been very keen on giving massages, just relaxing ones, but have of course always worried about me doing harm to someone, because I have no training whatsoever. When I asked to join a massage course, I told her that I would like to give relaxing massages to others and that I would like to understand and learn a bit more about what is what and what is where. She shut me down and said that if I wanted to give massages to others, then I needed to do an apprenticeship and spend several years of learning, otherwise I could be the cause for hurting someone. She also said that it was important to find out about peoples health, for example if they had low/high blood pressure, where they on medication and what for, etc, etc. I really love giving massages and I do think I have a good "feel" for it, but after talking to this lady, I decided that it was better not to get into it, as I do not want to hurt someone. I am working very long and irregular hours in an resthome and I simply do not have the time or the money to do an apprenticeship. Do you too believe that I should not give relaxing massages to others? By the way, I only ever use the massage chair, as I have back problems. I would really appreciate you input. Many, many thanks.
Hi Juanita! I think learning more is a great idea, and I don't think you need to be worried at all about the process. Massage is generally VERY safe, and the possibility of injury usually only pops up when doing painful work, very specific work, or work with vulnerable populations (e.g. elderly or post-surgery clients). If you'd like proof of how safe massage is: Our liability insurance is only 100-200 dollars per year, and most injury claims have to do with burns from hot stones. So, as long as you listen to your partners about their pain, and as long as you're careful with people who may be more vulnerable to injury, I don't think you have anything to worry about. I think the world would be a better place if we all massaged each other more!
You are the first massage therapist i find that knows how to tell apart bullshit from reality.
As a literal toxicologist, thank you. I got a lesson in science communication from this video 😹. A place to start when explaining this to friends and family- and sometimes curious strangers
That's so kind, thank you!
I'm going to school for massage therapy and I love looking at your massage tutorials for guidance! Thank you!
I CRINGE whenever I hear a fellow LMT tell a client they need to drink water to flush out their toxins. I tell my clients to drink water because we need to drink water and stay hydrated. Many people don't. Many of my massage classmates back in the day lived off coffee and soda and never drank water. I just feel we need water so I tell them to drink it. Not just after a massage but daily...because yeah...we need water. Lol
Yes, particularly because they just spent 20-50 minutes mouth-breathing in the face rest! And sometimes because my boss offers them a glass of wine afterwards-- they will be dehydrated! Water is good, nevermind toxins.
Lotus Lady Well it's actually specially more because of lactic acid and also Dehydration like you said
Lotus Lady yes, just to hydrate!
Interesting..I always have longer pees whether I drink water or not after a massage. It's like a weird never-ending urine post drip that does happens within hours after a massage, even if only reflexology. Explain that one. Doesn't happen when I don't get a massage.
@@ThatLady365 I heard there is a specific part of the back that you can rub/massage to help you poop if you are constipated. So that be the case with peeing as well.
I have so many questions because if massage schools are teaching this then how many other things are incorrect?? They definitely taught me that clients need to drink water to flush out "toxins" but also to "re hydrate" muscles. Is that a real thing either?? Also was taught that people with liver problems shouldn't be massaged because the "toxins" can overtax the liver and be harmful if they get massaged. I am assuming that's a bunch of crap too if we don't even effect things in that manner. What about people who have colds? Besides the fact you don't want to be in a small room with a sick person I was told massaging someone who is sick can make their symptoms worse. Also certain medications you somehow make the person "metabolize" them quicker which could make them sick (such as patients taking medication for cancer or going through radiation). I have so many clients who think that somehow an elbow in the back is more helpful then lighter work and I am learning that the mission isn't to make their "knots" (lol) go away but to help out the muscles causing the issues, but sometimes it can be hard to explain that to clients because they're so set on breaking up all kinds of things in their back. I had a client who had recently been in a car accident and I could tell she had quite a bit of inflammation and didn't go super deep on her. I explained her muscles had already been through trauma and an elbow in the back would hurt more then harm her. She still complained I wasn't deep enough, but I as a therapist don't think it's wise to do deep "pressure" on a client who has recently been through trauma. It's difficult to keep your clients happy and do what is right for them in your opinion.
It sounds like you did great! I know it can be hard to tell a client that they don't need pain to solve pain, but you definitely did the right thing by not further provoking that person's endocrine and nervous system by doing deep work. That leads me to your other questions: Can we do harm to people with liver problems? We can... if we create a lot of microtrauma. The danger isn't in sending too much circulation that way-if they can go on a liesurely walk, they can receive Swedish massage. The danger isn't in freeing their locked up toxins either; diffusion and circulation go on whether we make contact or not. The only way we could do harm to someone with liver or kidney damage would be by causing so much tissue trauma that their body can't clean up all the muscle cells we destroyed (see "rhabdomyolysis" for more info). This is a very unlikely outcome, but possible with an intensely aggressive massage.
So, it sounds like you've got the right ideas, and I'm glad to hear that you're honoring your clients' needs (even if they demand that you do otherwise)! Confident communication of your reasoning can help, but it can only do so much. Thanks for commenting!
@@MassageSloth So, are you saying that massage won't increase the likelihood of spreading cancerous cells and their medications because massage doesn't actually increase circulation more than a walk would?
I agree about the lactid acid.I disagree with your comment about muscles sticking together (and it is supported by clear evidence). I also explain water is very necessary for all of the tissue interfaces to slide together to create movement.
Agreed. I'm learning about this in school right now.
Am surprise that people agree with everything he say, especially about the water issue.
hmm
Thank you for clearing this up, those myths were driving me crazy with all the non sense lol!
Great topic! A year or so ago the Massage Therapy Foundation came out with a document highlighting a list of 5 myth claims made by the massage industry. As a massage therapist I found it enlightening, but frustrating to know how prevalent this information is and that I'd been misinformed because I know I'd probably said some of the things to clients not knowing better. That is why they (MTF) want to encourage good, sound research to further re-enforce the good benefits of massage, and stop the spreading of false claims.
We do all live in a very toxic world without a doubt and “toxin” release and absolutely be physical, emotional, spiritual and mental.
Thank god someone is finally providing accurate info and cutting through the countless BS out there. So glad I found you. Thank you!!!❤️🙏💕
Someone posted this in the Clubhouse group today. Still a great video! I hate hearing clients tell me about lactic acid and toxins. I hate detox fads, because the body is amazing and cleans things up as the should! Massage is not the cure to everything (like it was implied by some people in school 🤨), it's an aide.
Yes I'm still here 😭 painful but grateful to know this and re-educate my clients as I just did myself thank you, great educational video.
I have so many clients come to me and tell me they know they have to drink enough water for the "toxins", I usually don't know what to respond but now I do! Thanks for your current knowledge!!
You'll be repeating yourself forever. When I enlighten my clients, it's as if I'm bursting their bubble. :-/
You mentioned muscles don't get stuck together. Are muscle adhesions a myth? Also, after performing deep work and doing an effleurage flush, what are you flushing out exactly? or is the point just to "make nice"? Another question, isn't one of the physiological purpose of massage to bring blood flow, which promotes healing, at least locally? I believed the effect of a compression is to bring blood flow to the area. Thank you for all your work and videos. I've been getting so much from them!
Hi Joanna! Adhesions are real, but the medical literature seems to be primarily concerned with abdominal adhesions following surgery. In other words, a lot of what we're taught in school, and a lot of what massage therapists tell clients about muscle adhesions, amounts to speculation. More importantly, any adhesion in the body is a messy scattering of collagen, so even if we were able to palpate them among muscle tissue (which I'm dubious of), they would be stronger than the surrounding tissue. Any attempt to break up collagen is a recipe for tissue damage and, paradoxically, more collagen deposition. So, the theory is shaky, and the proposed solution is even less likely. I leave any talk about adhesions out of my conversations with clients because there's just too little evidence of it being clinically relevant.
When I do a nice big effleurage stroke following specific work, I am indeed just making nice and figuratively bringing the body back together. We do "flush" any area that we glide over, but not in a way that the body isn't capable of on its own. In other words, we might cause the calves to send hypoxic blood toward the heart and get a fresh wash of relatively more oxygenated blood over the course of a stroke, but that would have happened anyway over the course of the next few heart beats. Even manual lymphatic drainage techniques that resolve edema are only temporary, and it's a matter of increasing the rate of venous return rather than flipping a switch from off to on. Venous return was still taking place.
As for circulation being one of the primary effects of massage, it's not really something I'm concerned with. I try to play nice with the circulatory system (traveling from distal to proximal in the limbs), especially in people with circulatory vulnerabilities, but I don't think that the circulation I create is significantly different from what they'd get from walking across the room or doing some jumping jacks. I'm more interested in the conversation I'm having with their nervous system: How can I give them useful inputs that will decrease sensitivity and promote a sense of ease and comfort?
Sorry about that wall of text 😅 Let me know if you have any questions, and realize that these are points about which reasonable people may disagree.
Thanks for this. I’ve always found the toxin theory confusing because even if they were released during a massage (which they clearly aren’t) then surely they would either make the client very ill or they’d go straight back into the muscles/fat! It’s all this nonsense that put me off massage and reflexology for many years.
Thank you! I am a new LMT and started watching your videos in school. I was definitely a skeptic about some of the things we learned in school. A few thoughts/ questions: did you take continuing education that helped you realize the facts or did you just do research on your own? Do you mind letting me know your favorite sources for massage research? Thank you for all you do. I am glad that the massage sloth community is full of truth seekers!
I think my best source of info on these subjects was skeptical physical therapy blogs, but even with those you need to be vigilant for people making absolute statements (e.g. "this is about tendon, not muscle!"). I'd recommend one or two, but each has its own share of misinformation. So, I guess my suggestion is to be skeptical of everything, avoid absolute statements, and just do things that work :) Sorry I can't be of more help on this!
Thank you!
Massage Sloth.. And yet you make absolute statements in this video which you are lacking knowledge and a thorough understanding of. Please stop attempting to "educate" people beyond the limitations of your own knowledge and understanding. This is dangerous and unethical practice.
Im not even career wise somewhere near massage therapy nor am I planning to learn. But I still watch this guy to the end.
*wipes away tear*
This is just beautiful!
These words are like music in my biochemist ears. Plus, I've never thought that I would watch a video about massage that has NCBI links in the description (do you have an academic background?). Thanks for cutting the pseudo scientific BS and... SUBSCRIPTION FOR YOU.
Thanks Luca! I've got a master's in experimental psych, so I've spent many hours elbow deep in academic journals. This probably isn't what my professors had in mind, but whatever :)
I don't think it matters what others had in mind, once you find something that brings you joy and fulfillment ;)
Once again, thank you. This is very eye opening and very life changing for my practice.
I would love to hear examples of your own after care and communication with clients.
I too am very passionate about dispelling old myths and only working with evidence based therapies. More on this topic would never go astray!
Thank you!!!
Thanks so much, Kat! And the communication videos are a great idea that I plan to make... but it's so much easier in the treatment room than in front of the camera :) I appreciate your comments!
Hi Ian,
I have just returned to massage therapy after a long break, so have been really enjoying some of your videos to refresh and update my skills. Your approach is very akin to mine and I find your teaching style calm and clear. I'm sure your clients feel better just for coming to see someone with a reassuring presence, as well as for your massage.
This topic interests me as I am trying to figure out my approach to soreness after massage, having recently returned to practice. Like you, I don't believe in "no pain no gain", and I always remain in communication with my clients, assessing their comfort with my pressure etc etc. I also go for the gentlest possible approach to achieve the desired outcome. However, some of my clients want to feel deep pressure during the massage. That's what's satisfying to them. If that then causes some soreness the next day, but they are looser and free of the original pain, is that really a problem? Based on my current understanding, we still don't really know what causes this. It's not lactic acid, sure. It can feel much like the soreness after a work out, so it's likely to be a similar process. Perhaps micro tears causing localised inflammation or rhabdomyolysis..... But that's not the same as "beating someone up", which causes ongoing injury and bruising.
Assuming post-massage soreness is a similar process to post-exercise soreness, I'm inclined to see it as not intrinsically a problem or a necessity, but again to defer to the client's experience. That is, do they prefer gentler massage with no post-massage soreness, or deeper pressure with the possibility of some soreness? If the goal is increased movement and/or decreased pain, and this can be achieved either way, why would we preference one over the other and not be guided by the client?
Another thing, regarding water. I totally agree that the term "toxins" is misleading and outdated terminology. It is also clear that lactic acid is not the problem. However, if soreness after massage or exercise is caused by inflammation or rhabdomyolysis, there are indeed substances (you might say "waste products") that the body needs to move and excrete. Proper hydration is the best way to facilitate the body's natural mechanisms of excretion. That's not myth. And most people do not adequately hydrate themselves at the best of times. So I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Encouraging clients to hydrate themselves still seems sensible to me.
I'm interested in your thoughts.
Thanks again,
Heather
Hi Heather! We're of a similar mindset here: If a client prefers more pressure and doesn't mind some next-day soreness, I've got no problem with that. When I receive massage, I like them to approach that "hurts so good" point, and I do tend to have some soreness similar to what I'd have after a workout afterward. The only problem I have is with excessive pressure for its own sake, done in the name of the idea that "it has to hurt if it's going to work." That's the philosophy that I take issue with; I'm a big fan of letting informed clients determine their own pressure.
As far as a little soreness, that seems reasonable for any intervention that manipulates the body substantially or in new ways. I agree that it's likely due to microtrauma in the muscles and blood/lymphatic vessels, and that's normal for just about any activity. As far as needing to be properly hydrated to flush myoglobin to prevent symptoms of mild rhabdomyolysis, that makes sense to me. I think that lots of microtrauma + dehydration could result in worse outcomes; I'm just doubtful that more water intake in a reasonably hydrated person could make a difference in symptoms. I'm willing to be wrong about that, and I do still hand my clients a cup of water after their massage :) If nothing else, it's a kind gesture!
Good to see a video like this. I am always annoyed by how much people throw around weird stuff about, "toxins in the body."
Good morning, you have reached me in the Caribbean. I love your work and videos as they provide so much information for me as a massage therapist. You have become my 'Go to' reference on the net in most cases. My thanks Ian for all your efforts and continue the good work.
I'm still with you. You have a powerful message for us massage therapists. It is a good approach. Thank you.
Great video! As a nutritionist I believe that We need more information ,like what’s this video, being shared. Too many practitioners spread BS just to sell themselves and their products. It gives people the idea that they are not capable of helping themselves and over emphasizes the need for “special “ Treatments or supplements.
I agree with this for the most part scientifically speaking. However, I do recommend drinking more water to most clients as most of us are under hydrated and there is a lot of science to back up the benefits of staying properly hydrated...also, as a therapist of many years I feel I can feel when someone is dehydrated, I of course ask the client how often they drink water and it lines up far more than it doesn't with what I am feeling under my hands. I was taught the how toxic, lactic acid thing as well and started questioning it early in my career. One because I do not feel comfortable using fear to motivate a client. The way I handle each client varies with each client of course because every clients body is unique, as is the issue they are wanting to address. I also learned early on that there is no safe way to effectively deal with tension or holding patterns because of repetitive behaviors in a single session or with out addresses some of those repetitive behaviors themselves. Like which leg we bare most of our weight on when sitting or standing, which side we carry our pocket books on or our work areas...especially those using computers and phones day in and day out. For this reason once I started practicing independent from massage centers. I do not offer deep tissue, NMT, swedish, myo facial etc...not because I am not educated in them but because I customize each massage for each person and their needs. My one hours are reserved for focus massages for specific issues of pain or discomfort but in general I prefer 90min to 2 hour sessions when working with the entire body effectively...with out causing sourness or sickness after...takes time and listening to the clients body even if the client is ready for you to beat the crap out of them is just more effective short and long term (I have lost clients because of this). I agree with this video and would love to share it with my clients but I think that it needs to go into what we are actually doing for them and the benefits of that...so they can come away informed because many clients also believe in and support this toxin/acid theory as well. I tell clients that massage is supportive of all our body systems and functions when done properly...I do not feel that is dishonest in any way as even the reduction of stress and its effects on the body can be beneficial. If stress can make us sick, then de-stressing, while not a cure...can and does help in many ways in my experience. I am long winded I know but if I am doing something wrong...I would like to know in order to improve.
I'm a massage therapist and I've never told my clients that they need to drink water to flush out toxins. Also I get a lot of client who do not understand what deep tissue massage is. I usually tell my clients if they are a little bit sore later to take a warm bath and do some gentle stretching. It all depends on the client and the type of Massage I've done for the client. I'm one to use hydrotherapy on my clients if needed. I also explain to my clients why they might feel sore later on. One is I tell them ,I've worked on the muscle in away that the muscle not use to. It's like when you feel sore after a work out at the gym. I also tell my clients if I'm pressing / working on area and other areas are tensing up I'm going to hard. Some clients think deep tissue is going as hard as possible into the muscle. Which it's not. It's more about technique than pressure. What are your thoughts on this?
It sounds like you read my mind! I use much the same language, and I think that gently guiding clients away from the "no pain no gain" mindset can do a lot of good. As you say, it's more about technique than pressure. Thanks for commenting!
Love your videos.
I used to get so irritated with massage therapists that would claim the rug burn they caused the skin was “toxin coming out” lmao
I really appreciate the variety of information you have to offer. Techniques are always appreciated but myth busting information is what we (therapist & client) need to know and understand. Thank You!!!
My massage therapist talks about lactic acid blocking circulation all the time, although she never mentions "toxins".
I'm not going to get in an argument with her about it, though.
She does the work I need on my ankles and one side of my neck and head, and that's all I need.
She also tells me to drink a lot of water after every session, but whatever.
Yeah, in many cases it's pretty benign. There's some of this stuff floating around in just about every profession, and it doesn't necessarily stop practitioners from being competent and effective. I'd just like to stanch the flow a bit :) It sounds like she does great work!
What's a blood clot if blood cant be stagnant? What are vericose veins? What about gout/uric acid crystals? How does the body absorb the lactic acid if if doesn't also absorb everything else?
Thank you so much for demystify stuff. I am usually told that my massages are to soft and my hands are to light, it's really encouraging to know that someone with years of experience and knowledge understand that massages need not be painful. I dislike "heavy"massages and vowed I never to that to my clients. Thanks for the great info and keep inspiring us to be better. Have you encountered persons who claim that foot soaks remove toxins how effectively? I think no but willing to hear another view.
Hi Kesha, good on you for only doing the work that you're comfortable with. I do deep pressure massages, but I hate the idea of causing pain, so I don't! As far as the foot soaks go, that's another myth. There are various ways that the companies create the cloudiness in the water or discoloration on the foot pads, and none of them have anything to do with compounds being drawn out of your body.
This is very interesting but I often feel unwell after a massage and the massages I get are not at all hard pressure. It seems to trigger something in my body. What would cause this?
Also, why do clients feel thirsty after a massage?
Thank you for educating us. I was taught about the toxin theory in school as well.
My biggest candidate for thirst after a massage is that being prone tends to close off our nasal sinuses, leading to 10 or 20 minutes of mouth breathing :) That said, I do suspect that something is increasing the filtration rate of the kidneys, because it seems suspicious that people frequently need to pee after a session. It could be the massage, or the positioning, or the feeling of relaxation. Not sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case. At any rate, I'll always offer a glass of water after a session; even if we're not helping them flush anything, it's a kind and nurturing act, so I like it quite a bit.
As for feeling unwell after a massage, my two big suspects for that are positioning and neck work. I've seen that even in light-pressure massage, many massage therapists will still swing for the fences when it comes to stretching, compressing, and stripping the neck. That is fine for many people, but some will leave feeling off-balance and overall yucky (myself included). As for positioning, for some people, being prone for long periods can leave them feeling unwell, partly due to the sinus thing mentioned above. Same for being supine without a pillow; both are positions that we don't normally stay in for any length of time outside a massage, so it could be messing with certain individuals.
That said, if it's not short bouts of overwork, and if you can be perfectly comfy and still feel unwell after a massage, it could just be that massage is indeed impactful. An hour of systematic touch has effects on the nervous, endocrine, and immune systems, as well as impacting our digestion and interoception. It activates the parasympathetic nervous system strongly, and can promote altered states of consciousness. An hour-long massage is a big deal to the body, so it makes sense that there would be some weirdness as it finds homeostasis afterwards. I just ask that you stay in contact with your body, be kind to it as it finds balance, and keep an eye on any massage approaches that cause too much chaos. If the feelings afterward are more negative than positive, it's possible that you need someone who will approach your unique body differently.
I just started my massage courses and man am I glad I found this channel. Great stuff, Ian!
Thank you. I have enjoyed every one of your vids that I have looked at so far. You give very good and sound explanations to all your arguments and as an older guy now getting into this field I use your vids in my work and in catering to my clients.
Thanks Deryck, glad to hear it!
I have had 3 deep tissue massages, all leading to extreme flu like
symptoms. For me, the symptoms take 12-14 hours to show, after a
massage, and continue for an entire 24 hour period. Dizziness, fever,
chills, cold sweats, loss of appetite, sore throat, are all symptoms I
have experienced. My highest temperature ever recorded after a massage
was 103, which lead to hallucinations. I did not realize this
correlation until I fell ill after a massage for the third time. All
three massages were given by three different therapists in three
different locations so counting out my experiences as coincidences, is
not a possibility. I will never be willing to subject myself to that
type of torture again for as long as I live. No more deep tissue!
I experience diziness as well especially because I have cervical issues already. Do you find yourself walking unsteady?
@@starlite7785 the problem is I get so sick that it becomes hard for me to move let alone walk because I’m so weak
I, did 2
Thank you so much for sharing this information. I am one of the many people who assumed this was true because I was taught it in school. Thank you, thank you, thank you! Keep up the awesome work you do.
You are so great, Ian! If it sounds unsubstantiated and it's repeated by practitioners without an education in biology, you should be suspicious.
I guess I am going to have to do more research. This just blew my mind a bit. I lift weights several days a week and I have been rolling my muscles to get out lactic acid since I started. I heard it from everyone. This is insane to me. It helps make me stretch a bit but I don't really do that much. I've only every had two massages and I would like to find someone but it's so stressful and makes me anxious. The first massage I had I told the girl I really don't like to be touched but I was trying to get better at it. Afterwards I felt like I had gotten beaten with a ton of bricks. She said it was because I didn't relax enough and that my muscles were rocks from lifting and she had worked them down to pebbles. She said she would need to continue to do work to get me back to basic so that she could really start working with me. I couldn't lift my arms the next day. I decided to try someone else. It was a bit better but pretty much the same. Everyone always tells me I need to relax but that doesn't help me relax it just makes me feel bad so I tense up more. :) Oh well. I find your videos helpful because it lets me see what should be going on and how to make better choices. Really though... Lactic Acid build up not a thing... Goodness
Oh goodness! Rocks into pebbles?! I'm really sorry that happened, and I wish I could help you find someone with a kinder and gentler approach. The right massage therapist will recognize that muscle relaxation isn't a function of pounding you into paste, but of slowly persuading your nervous system that so much muscle tone isn't always necessary. That can take a few sessions, and it absolutely helps if you feel comfortable. The right massage therapist will create a certain atmosphere, one where you realize that nothing is expected or needed from you, and that you're not being judged ("too stiff," for instance, is a bit judgmental!). Until then, forget the "rocks" thing. Your body is well adapted to its environment, to living in gravity, and to the jobs that you set before it. Moving, stretching, and massage are all wonderful, but you have a resilient body that is capable of caring for itself. Thanks for leaving this comment!
Excellent information! I sure do wish I could take back all the thousands of dollars I paid for massage therapy school and give it to you. I learn a great deal from watching your videos. I'm so very happy I've found this channel. Game changer ❤
Amen. I hear other therapist say these things about detoxing every day. Thanks for discussing this.
I’ve heard this term “toxins” numerous times and always wanted to know what that term even means. This explanation make sense.
Thank God somebody is being honest about this in the massage industry
Thank you so much for this video sir!
Problem with this is...many people in our country ARE toxic due to poor nutrition habits and LACK of movement. People who sit at a computer all day are compressing arteries in the pelvis all day long and often end up with issues in the lower extremities.
I will say thank you for mentioning that people don't need to be injured to have a good massage. That misconception really bothers me. Someone with good knowledge of the body can get into the deeper tissues without just "digging in the elbow."
I'd love to hear what you know about bioelectric energy. This is scientifically proven.
The nervous system is scientifically proven? Good to know
Thank you Ian for educating
me on this topic. I appreciate your frank talks about specific issues that clients and therapists confront most often.
What is your opinion on chiropractic treatments? I appreciate your evidence-
based approach, and haven't been able to find a clear answer about whether chiropractic care is healthy/ effective
Another excellent teaching. Thank you from an English lady studying Massage Therapy: our teacher has told us about toxins…..now I know better.
Great information and translation of issues we may come across. Thank you 😊
Really like your evidence-based approach!
Thank you. You just supported everything I have been saying since I became a therapist. My boss still tells clients that the "knots" are lactic acid crystals. Drives me crazy.
slow sustained clapping! bravo! thank you, thank you, thank you.
but you also said "muscles can't stick to other muscles?" adhesions in other words. I'm certainly not beyond the capacity for self deception, but this is something I could've sworn I've experienced first-hand as a therapist. Did I misunderstand / misquote you?
Adhesions do exist, but they're typically caused by trauma or prolonged immobilization. They can't be broken up by manual work-being made of collagen, adhesions are semi-permanent, and stronger than the surrounding tissue. The only thing that can break them down (other than a scalpel) are the embedded cells. Fibroclasts and fibroblasts are constantly remodeling connective tissue, especially scar tissue within the first few months of its existence. Massage can provide stimulus that will promote functional remodeling, especially if done frequently in that initial period. The strongest determinant of how functional and free the adhesion ends up feeling is the client's activity; if they use the part, the scar tissue will have a much different trajectory than if they keep it inactive during the initial remodeling.
As far as that sensation of unsticking, I imagine that it's a temporary change in consistency due local vasodilation following some friction/kneading. I could be wrong! Thanks for the kind words, and I apologize for writing like a robot today!
it seems somewhat logical to posit that "adhesions" might also have varying degrees of "stuckness" right? so that while we might not be capable of breaking up deep adhesions in someone who might've been bedridden for years through soft tissue manipulation, but it doesn't seem a stretch that our efforts might prevent future adhesions from getting more rigid? I dunno. Still a relatively new therapist. Love your videos!
That seems reasonable, Shawn. Even if we're not unsticking anything, new collagen deposits (fresh scar tissue) aren't as tough as the type of collagen fibers deposited over the following weeks. It's kind of a slap-dash internal bandage, so working with it could easily have a greater effect than working with mature scar tissue. Still, it's primarily the job of the embedded cells: Actually unsticking the tissue on a macroscopic level would involve shearing lots of new blood vessels that grew along with the scar tissue. I'm fine just being one among several stimuli that can promote functional remodeling!
If massage doesn't break down tissue, does it at least soften it? Or stretch it?
I LOVE YOUR VIDEOS!!!! YOUR SO REASONABLE AND INTELLIGENT!
Thanks for educating me.
I can speak to my clients w/ confidence.
👏🙋👏
Thank yoy for sharing. Today a client got nauseous during a massage so I went looking for the right information.
I was curious why massage therapists recommend water after a massage, and the first answer I found was about toxins.
I'm so glad I did some more research and found your video! Blaming toxins always sorta sounded like pseudoscience to me. This was very thorough and easy to understand, thank you!
Hi, I'm here because I saw your video in a massage course, I took on the task of investigating how to mitigate muscle pain a bit because the health system of my country doesn't deepend my need as a patient. Regards
I love videos like this. Thanks for supporting science and being honest instead of looking for a payout.
I have prenatal clients and was taught certain areas must not be messaged, hopefully we can go further in those experiences also!
That's a great idea for a video, I'll give it some thought!
Nice to hear someone that is updated regarding lactic acid/lactate.
Ok, there's truth in both sides. The circulatory system (blood) is active. Your heart pumps it etc etc. Your lymphatic system, however, is passive, and massage CAN help in some limited circumstances. 99% of the time you're fine - so long as you move around a few times a day your lymph will be flowing just fine. But if you're sick, it can definitely be beneficial to stimulate your lymphatic system to get moving (tip: massage your lymph nodes. GENTLY.)
Thank you for a very informative video LMT Allissa Haynes recommended it. I no longer practise massage but still write about it so it is useful to make sure educators and people who share information about massage use correct information
I got a massage once, drank water, and STILL felt sick the next day. I wonder if anyone else has done that. I had a bad car wreck so I know I have lots of inflammation in my body.
Thank you Ian. Great videos. It's great to have someone explain matters in a scientific manner. It makes things more understandable to where they are coming from.
I totally searched for massage toxins. I was rendered immobile after a DT massage. It's my fault because I walked 6 miles right after it. Very stupid, now laying in bed eating noodles, drinking water and taking anti inflammatory meds.
What were the symptoms you experienced after the DT massage? Was it next day?
Thank you I’ll be changing some things up in my treatment room from now on
I wish there was a way to know which "therapists" were really knowledgeable and which ones just ramble nonsense *before* you go to them. I can't afford to be trying a new person all the time when I have specific things I want addressed.
I... kind of wish this too. I'm doing my best to encourage massage therapists to blog more, and hopefully to release videos on themselves in action. I think that would help remove a lot of the mystery.
Hi Ian, thanks again for another fine, informative video! Curious about your thoughts on broad plane release, skin rolling and muscle rolling to aid in breaking up fascial adhesions. Also, your ideas on the petechiae that presents itself in some areas but not others when cupping or doing Gua Sha. Much thanks in advance!
I was given an expensive self shiatsu and I got violently nauseous afterwards. Looking for answers on how to avoid this in the future please
I can't say for sure, but does the same thing happen with other forms of massage? Some people will try to tell you that feeling sick after a treatment is a "healing crisis" and is needed to work through all the toxins and whatnot, but that's just a way of trying to wave away a negative outcome. My advice is to look for something less intense and see whether the negative side effects disappear.
Thank you, so nice to hear people taking about this field based on provable scientific evidence!
I have similar feelings toward claims that are made in our business. Now on salt baths ( Epsom or just plain salt) that is more of an osmosis process, any "toxin" that can be absorbed through the skin can also be lessened by soaking.
Despite being taught about the role/routes of lactic acid in the body decades ago, all the health, exercise and indeed massage literature and nowadays vids has made me believe the idea that sore muscles and crunchy spots are caused by lactic acid build up. This vid, and re-reading books like 'The chemistry of life' (Rose) has reminded me of the current known facts.
The Sloth should put out more popular-aimed anatomy and physiology vids that aren't just labelled as "massage training". Good work - excellent teacher!
I use to have terrible back pain but then I started strength training program and my back pain has disappeared. Is that weird?
You have some strange anger issues towards deeper work. I like your work, but I think your extreme slow preasure/work may work over ten/twenty sessions which is great for your pocket and a wealthy client, but I get great results with a little tenderness the next day . Sometimes you help them to move a muscle a 1/2 further than it has moved in 20 years. Just moving that muscle can be like a big workout. They get sore but they get better in a day and have long lasting results. My clients dont need me but when they have mobility issues and I usually help them get fluid within a couple sessions. Not always, but more often than not
Great video Ian! I'll be sharing with folks.
تيhank u for ur believe but what about lymph massaget
We need more science based influencers or youtubers to tell the consumers the truth.
I often see many instagram or youtube influencers that "look good" talk about nonsense stuff about bodybuilding or message therapy that are not true.
Can you make a video on the science behind massage?? You have debunked all the benefits of massage that I have learned in school and now I would like more truth! Great video!
That... is a great idea! If I were to make one, this would be the gist: There are many demonstrated benefits of massage for chronic pain, depression and anxiety, and symptoms of chronic illness. There's less solid science when it comes to why and how. Trigger point theory is becoming less compelling as research proceeds (though trigger point massage remains effective!), we don't seem to have much of an effect on inflammation, and we're probably not solving anyone's ischemia. The current research is pointing toward nervous system modulation: By working with painful areas in a painless way, repeatedly and for long durations, we're reprogramming the pain sensitivity at the level of the central nervous system. I suspect that there are some changes to neurotransmitters too, but the research I've seen on that so far is preliminary.
And this is something I don't stress often enough: Massage feels good, and the body responds well to feel-good stimuli!
So how do I explain why I feel so hungover and foggy after the massage I had yesterday?