I've done my share of mud pans but I think these foam systems have come so far with the custom pre-formed pans you'd have to be crazy to do it the old way now, particularly when time is money.
Big thanks for all this info. In my youth I worked on jobs with contractors as a laborer/helper and didn't learn a 1/10 of this and that was asking questions and being on-site. I did learn how to do a LEAD shower pan, soldered in at the sides and all. That was interesting, probably a lil cancerous too. Guess who carried the lead.
What a wonderful teacher you are! Beautiful communication. It took me all of about 2 minutes before I couldn't help but subscribe. Wonderful presentation, and am looking forward to reviewing all your videos!
I really enjoy your videos and am especially glad to see you installing the foam pan. I used the KBRS pan for my shower and even though it was expensive, the results and piece of mind have been worth it! And I love YOU being my rile coach! Thanks!
I have ripped out 3 of these now in new construction. Curbs leak drains installed wrong seams not caulked or sealed. very easy to mess up it seems for the price.
I always frame my niche big and sheet over it.. then cut it in when I am one course away.. perfect niche placement every time, zero time wasted time laying out
Great video I got this project to do right now. Demo it 7 months ago. Just getting motivated to start it up again and finish it. I'm closing it completely to make it a steamroom as well. I went with kerdi but if you are using the shower pan do you still need the roll membrane?
Great work as always and great content. I’m just wondering if you got a video or if you ever did a shower with a 1 piece solid shower pan like Corian or something similar?
I have been watching your videos for the past year. I am close to being ready to remodel my bathroom. The shower is about 6 feet by 5 feet. This RSS system looks good. What system do you recommend of all the ones you use. It seems the RSS walls and all seems to be the best bet. It will be my first time. Fixing the walls is something I will take int account after hearing you say it many times. Thank you
I’ve found the solution to the Schluter drain screw holes. If you take a durarock screw to each hole, apply a little pressure, It will create a nice tapered area for the screw to sit flat.
I've noticed in the video series that he put some type of board material on top of the foam curb. It didn't look like the cement backer board, would anyone know what it is? And I'm so thankful for Isaac. It's given me the confidence to try this myself.
Love being a subscriber. You're sharing is so beneficial to so many, myself included. Is the curb part of the RSS System or something you can pick up elsewhere? Thanks and God Bless.
Pardon my noob but i just cant grasp how a foam curb can hold fasteners from the heavy shower glass, are there super strong fibers woven into the form?
Foam pan or deck mud pan? I’ve watched all your videos and for some reason I still think I’ll try to go with the deck mud method 🤔 My first attempt ever at a shower pan 😅
Does the thinset actually bond to the foam? Should sell those gloves on your site. The pans on your site are way expensive. I am looking at RSS or maybe ready schluter pan.
I sure like Schluter systems. What’s the lead time on a pan like this when you give them dimensions? I assume they come with band and corners? Getting ready to do a custom poured pan with Kerdi membrane and I hate poured pans. I prefer the form pans if I can.
Hi Isaac I really like your videos I have a question I'm installing hydro form board in my shower but was wondering I'd on top of the foam board have I regard it or no need to regard just to double up on the water proofing
Omg why u didn’t do this video before. My shower is very irregular so I couldn’t use Schluter pan and it was a pain in the butt to do it myself. Too late now 😢
Hey tile coach, question. If I use a straight edge and mark any crowns on studs, Can I use a electric planer to take the high points off the studs if the majority of the wall studs are already flat and level. Or is there any potential issue I might run into by doing that?
Sounds like something I would do. Only issue would be any embedded nails. Make sure you pull any nails, or sink 'em 1/4" or more deep. Sink them deeper as you make passes with the plane, if you need to take off more than 1/8". If you think you might have weakened the studs too much, just nail an extra 2x4 onto the stud (sistering). Or sister the studs first, so you can plane both the new and old studs, so they will be even. A hand plane will also work (to those of you who do not have a power plane), with correspondingly more time and exercise. Use the power plane to cut recesses for any nail shields that will be needed to protect any pipes or wires, so the wall material will lay flat.
@@doubledarefan Thanks for the tips, I've got a job coming up with four showers and a lot of stuff was DIY by the previous homeowner so I don't know what exactly I'm going to unearth.
It is fine. It really doesn’t matter as long as you end up with plumb studs. But a planer takes a lot of time to shave any major crown. If they are minor, it won’t really show anyway.
Doesn’t KBRS (and others) do custom one piece pans, including curbs, that are fully waterproof, aren’t foam, and can have tiles applied directly to them? They may be more expensive, but installation time is much less. Also based on one of your previous “drop test” videos, aren’t foam pans too susceptible to damage during install?
Too susceptible? They are basically foam. It looks like you can fill in the dents and even breaks with mortar when installing. what kind of "show stopping" damage are you worried about? Seems like a great solution for a DIYer like me who isn't excited about sloping a dry bed pan in a little-used guest shower.
@@kenreynolds1000 could just have me do it and it’d probably be cheaper ;) I don’t charge much at all for pans. 200 bucks? Materials are cheap too. Then waterproofing I charge around 200-300 as well (can depend) So if you were going to do the tile you now know you have a fully water proof and strong shower and not putting trust into these new foam products.
So why wouldn't you go with the way you put the grooves to get the air out instead of crossing them laying the membrane? airs trapped going cross ways?
If my shower is a weird shape, it is a bad idea to have a foam pan of standard size then add some standard water proofing in the extra space connecting to it?
What are the easiest shower kit and I can customize for where I want my shower drain? Also do you have the links where I can order a customize shower kit? I need the easiest one out there.
Wouldn’t it make more sense to leave the membrane big and run it up the walls and over the curb like you do with the rubber membrane? That way you don’t have 16’ of seems round the perimeter for potential leaks.
I have a question. You mentioned you didn't want to be walking all over the shower pan while you hung the wall board. That makes me wonder just how durable the foam pan is because obviously you are going to be walking on it for the rest of the showers life. The fact that it will then have tile over it doesn't change the fact that it still has to support the weight of the person. So is a foam shower pan actually a good choice versus doing a dry pack shower base?
The pan is easily penetrable from like a dropped screw and stepping on the edges would dent them etc. once the pan is install and thinset is applied and bonded to the surface with tile set to the top of the pan it’s a very solid finished product, but if you install the pan and then drop a screw and step on that screw it’s easy to poke a hole you know what I mean? That’s why he did it after the fact. In the Schluter system you would hang the walls to the floor then install the pan so the pan is mudded to the floor and side edges to the walls. Then you’d have to step on it to do you Schluter band to waterproof it but you shouldn’t have anything to screw in by then
1 thing I'm curious about re: the FLOFX drain. The last piece cemented on, the blue piece. I'm surprised it goes over and not in the piece it joins, that if a joint failure occurs it won't drip down the outside of the pipe. Also, doesn't the lip inside create a place for hair and soap scum to hang up ? I'm not a plumber, just curious. ( Am a car mechanic for 30+ )
Good point but all drains are “hub” type connections that fit over the pipe. If they were to fit inside it, it would make the inside diameter too small. It needs to be 2” to meet code.
Yes... the RSS HD Custom Shower Pans feature a minimum of a 1/4" per foot slope toward the drain regardless of drain placement on the pan. The sloped (top) surface of the RSS HD Custom Shower Pan comes with a bond-promoting primer already applied to ensure a strong bond.
You dont have to move the drain with schluter. Just buy a bigger pan and cut to fit. There are rare occasions this won't work but it will in most cases. I'm sure it's a lot cheaper than having a pan custom made like this and you get the same result. But I always dig the videos man 💪
But Either center it or on the side. This is ugly at a random location. I guess the owner doesn’t want to bear the cost of moving the drain and will have to look at this oddity forever
@@bartosullivan8050 did it say it was the case in the video? I know lots of owners who would not pay for any extra even though there is an affordable solution
I love that RSS makes custom pans, I’ll have to check them out. But when installing them, shouldn’t you try to have your trowel lines go in the direction of the shortest travel relative to the thing being set? Because the pan was made up of 2 pieces the lines should have run from the valve wall side to the open side on your right. Great content, thanks for sharing!
You certainly could! However, the primary idea of the a custom made pre sloped pan is all about time saving (not having to do a mud bed pre-slope, getting the right pitch, keeping the perimeter level, clean up etc.)... however you still have to waterproof the pan when you waterproof the walls. That said, I guess for piece of mind... if you ever had a seam failure in your waterproofing a pan liner as backup would be a great second line of defense.
Aren't those foam pans expensive? Surely, dry pack has to be far cheaper and provides just as good/better product, with a lot more flexibility as to where the drain is located.
It all depends on the size and/or if you can use one of their off the shelf standard sized pans. For a custom pan it depends on how customized the pan needs to be, the number and type of drains etc. But just for rough estimate... if the pan design is not too crazy you can get a rough idea if you figure $60 to $75 per sq ft.
Nothing wrong with the traditional tried and true method other than it being labor intensive and requiring more skills to install (e.g. right materials, proper knowledge, proper slope, liner, water proofing etc) Styrofoam pans come pre-sloped and waterproof right out of the box. Just attach them to the floor via thinset. The primary downsides of styrofoam pans is cost (i.e., more expensive than traditional) and floor tiles smaller than 2" are NOT recommended because of they offer poor weight distribution. Tile Coach did a great video showing the potential downside of sytrofoam pans. See his video titled: FOAM VS MUD --- Drop Test 2x2 Porcelain Tile Shower Pan
Isaac, the pride in your work is evident. Thanks for being our tile coach and everything you do.
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE :/
I've done my share of mud pans but I think these foam systems have come so far with the custom pre-formed pans you'd have to be crazy to do it the old way now, particularly when time is money.
Except as a DIY'er, it's a huge difference between a $400 + shipping foam pan and a $30 deck mud + membrane pan!
$30? Is your shower 12x12inch?
You know you hired a pro when all of the Permabase lettering is right side up.
Lol
Big thanks for all this info. In my youth I worked on jobs with contractors as a laborer/helper and didn't learn a 1/10 of this and that was asking questions and being on-site. I did learn how to do a LEAD shower pan, soldered in at the sides and all. That was interesting, probably a lil cancerous too. Guess who carried the lead.
What a wonderful teacher you are! Beautiful communication. It took me all of about 2 minutes before I couldn't help but subscribe. Wonderful presentation, and am looking forward to reviewing all your videos!
Informative, easy going,good nature nice pace and no ego. Great presentations
I work at F&D in Long Island and It’s great all the Schluter Products We sell but Homeowners have a tight Budget for there Bathroom Makeovers.
I love the new shower pan system. I just had my shower done with hotmop. Thanks so much Tilecoach.
Hotmop is known to crack overtime
You are truly amazing at what you do. You make it looks so easy and are very good with the instructions.
I really enjoy your videos and am especially glad to see you installing the foam pan. I used the KBRS pan for my shower and even though it was expensive, the results and piece of mind have been worth it! And I love YOU being my rile coach! Thanks!
‘tile’ 🥴
I love you too. I love you being my tile coach.
I’m doing a Schluter pan this weekend. It will be my first foam pan.
Most important is to remember to make sure your shower base is level both ways. If not a little self leveler will fix it.
I have ripped out 3 of these now in new construction. Curbs leak drains installed wrong seams not caulked or sealed. very easy to mess up it seems for the price.
Agree stay away from the foam ripped out 80 from a renovation
Your very helpful and taken your time to ensure that everyone can understand what you are doing excellent work!
I always frame my niche big and sheet over it.. then cut it in when I am one course away.. perfect niche placement every time, zero time wasted time laying out
You sold me on the flo fx flange. Chase has done a fantastic job on them!
You Sir: are what we call a CRAFTSMAN in the trade.
Interesting. Looks like a good product for shower builds. Weird abs lol glue, I’ve only seen yellow.
Very well instructed! 👍
Great video I got this project to do right now. Demo it 7 months ago. Just getting motivated to start it up again and finish it. I'm closing it completely to make it a steamroom as well. I went with kerdi but if you are using the shower pan do you still need the roll membrane?
Great work as always and great content.
I’m just wondering if you got a video or if you ever did a shower with a 1 piece solid shower pan like Corian or something similar?
I have been watching your videos for the past year. I am close to being ready to remodel my bathroom. The shower is about 6 feet by 5 feet. This RSS system looks good. What system do you recommend of all the ones you use. It seems the RSS walls and all seems to be the best bet. It will be my first time. Fixing the walls is something I will take int account after hearing you say it many times.
Thank you
Excellent. Thank you
I’ve found the solution to the Schluter drain screw holes. If you take a durarock screw to each hole, apply a little pressure, It will create a nice tapered area for the screw to sit flat.
Great tutorial. Could you compare the cost of rss to schluter?
I've noticed in the video series that he put some type of board material on top of the foam curb. It didn't look like the cement backer board, would anyone know what it is? And I'm so thankful for Isaac. It's given me the confidence to try this myself.
1/4” Perma Base
Love being a subscriber. You're sharing is so beneficial to so many, myself included. Is the curb part of the RSS System or something you can pick up elsewhere? Thanks and God Bless.
Yes, it is! Thank you
Pardon my noob but i just cant grasp how a foam curb can hold fasteners from the heavy shower glass, are there super strong fibers woven into the form?
Foam pan or deck mud pan? I’ve watched all your videos and for some reason I still think I’ll try to go with the deck mud method 🤔 My first attempt ever at a shower pan 😅
Does the thinset actually bond to the foam?
Should sell those gloves on your site.
The pans on your site are way expensive. I am looking at RSS or maybe ready schluter pan.
Great Video as always, been following your journey through this job. Question: Why did you have the shower pan cut in half?
Shipping probably. Schluter pans come split as well.
@@brandonthamm6453 that makes sense, thanks
nice work
I sure like Schluter systems. What’s the lead time on a pan like this when you give them dimensions? I assume they come with band and corners?
Getting ready to do a custom poured pan with Kerdi membrane and I hate poured pans. I prefer the form pans if I can.
I would have mudded that shower!!!
Old school is still the best.
Looks great.!
Nice job
Did RSS also make the custom Curb? Thanks for the Video!
Hi Isaac I really like your videos I have a question I'm installing hydro form board in my shower but was wondering I'd on top of the foam board have I regard it or no need to regard just to double up on the water proofing
Omg why u didn’t do this video before. My shower is very irregular so I couldn’t use Schluter pan and it was a pain in the butt to do it myself. Too late now 😢
Have you ever installed the stone shower base/pans? What your thoughts on those?
Isaac put a 'juke step' on that foam base.
Hey tile coach, question.
If I use a straight edge and mark any crowns on studs, Can I use a electric planer to take the high points off the studs if the majority of the wall studs are already flat and level. Or is there any potential issue I might run into by doing that?
Sounds like something I would do. Only issue would be any embedded nails. Make sure you pull any nails, or sink 'em 1/4" or more deep. Sink them deeper as you make passes with the plane, if you need to take off more than 1/8". If you think you might have weakened the studs too much, just nail an extra 2x4 onto the stud (sistering). Or sister the studs first, so you can plane both the new and old studs, so they will be even. A hand plane will also work (to those of you who do not have a power plane), with correspondingly more time and exercise. Use the power plane to cut recesses for any nail shields that will be needed to protect any pipes or wires, so the wall material will lay flat.
@@doubledarefan Thanks for the tips, I've got a job coming up with four showers and a lot of stuff was DIY by the previous homeowner so I don't know what exactly I'm going to unearth.
It is fine. It really doesn’t matter as long as you end up with plumb studs. But a planer takes a lot of time to shave any major crown. If they are minor, it won’t really show anyway.
How do i find the next video after this stage?. Any help or direction would be amazing
only issue still not available in Canada BC Vancouver even the drain........... would love to try them
I enjoy all your videos I’ve learned a lot from you I would like to know where I can order RSS shower pan
Doesn’t KBRS (and others) do custom one piece pans, including curbs, that are fully waterproof, aren’t foam, and can have tiles applied directly to them? They may be more expensive, but installation time is much less. Also based on one of your previous “drop test” videos, aren’t foam pans too susceptible to damage during install?
Too susceptible? They are basically foam. It looks like you can fill in the dents and even breaks with mortar when installing. what kind of "show stopping" damage are you worried about? Seems like a great solution for a DIYer like me who isn't excited about sloping a dry bed pan in a little-used guest shower.
@@kenreynolds1000 could just have me do it and it’d probably be cheaper ;) I don’t charge much at all for pans. 200 bucks? Materials are cheap too. Then waterproofing I charge around 200-300 as well (can depend)
So if you were going to do the tile you now know you have a fully water proof and strong shower and not putting trust into these new foam products.
Will you have the next video for this job up soon?
So why wouldn't you go with the way you put the grooves to get the air out instead of crossing them laying the membrane? airs trapped going cross ways?
If my shower is a weird shape, it is a bad idea to have a foam pan of standard size then add some standard water proofing in the extra space connecting to it?
Great vid. Great stabila.
Could water not go betwen the membrane and the curb since the membrane isn't over the curb?
What are the easiest shower kit and I can customize for where I want my shower drain? Also do you have the links where I can order a customize shower kit? I need the easiest one out there.
How come you did put thinset on the bottom of the curb?
So this is instead of a mud floor?? Do you still use a pan liner on top of that ??
Wouldn’t it make more sense to leave the membrane big and run it up the walls and over the curb like you do with the rubber membrane? That way you don’t have 16’ of seems round the perimeter for potential leaks.
I have a question. You mentioned you didn't want to be walking all over the shower pan while you hung the wall board. That makes me wonder just how durable the foam pan is because obviously you are going to be walking on it for the rest of the showers life. The fact that it will then have tile over it doesn't change the fact that it still has to support the weight of the person. So is a foam shower pan actually a good choice versus doing a dry pack shower base?
The pan is easily penetrable from like a dropped screw and stepping on the edges would dent them etc. once the pan is install and thinset is applied and bonded to the surface with tile set to the top of the pan it’s a very solid finished product, but if you install the pan and then drop a screw and step on that screw it’s easy to poke a hole you know what I mean? That’s why he did it after the fact. In the Schluter system you would hang the walls to the floor then install the pan so the pan is mudded to the floor and side edges to the walls. Then you’d have to step on it to do you Schluter band to waterproof it but you shouldn’t have anything to screw in by then
Would you ever hang wall tile before installing the rss pan?
Of course not. You have to seal the corners with the bands which go under the tiles
Isaac, can you use a liquid membrane on these foam pads?
Wow it's so weird seeing abs pipe and glue. .
I love the custom pan I want one for my business too bud!!!
1 thing I'm curious about re: the FLOFX drain. The last piece cemented on, the blue piece. I'm surprised it goes over and not in the piece it joins, that if a joint failure occurs it won't drip down the outside of the pipe. Also, doesn't the lip inside create a place for hair and soap scum to hang up ? I'm not a plumber, just curious. ( Am a car mechanic for 30+ )
Good point but all drains are “hub” type connections that fit over the pipe. If they were to fit inside it, it would make the inside diameter too small. It needs to be 2” to meet code.
Does the foam come with a pitch toward the drain?
Yes... the RSS HD Custom Shower Pans feature a minimum of a 1/4" per foot slope toward the drain regardless of drain placement on the pan. The sloped (top) surface of the RSS HD Custom Shower Pan comes with a bond-promoting primer already applied to ensure a strong bond.
You dont have to move the drain with schluter. Just buy a bigger pan and cut to fit. There are rare occasions this won't work but it will in most cases. I'm sure it's a lot cheaper than having a pan custom made like this and you get the same result. But I always dig the videos man 💪
The difference is that the perimeter is level with a custom pan.
@@TileCoach ah yep you're right. Didn't think of that. Thanks for the knowledge
But Either center it or on the side. This is ugly at a random location. I guess the owner doesn’t want to bear the cost of moving the drain and will have to look at this oddity forever
@@b3arwithm3 Love to hear how you would do it with a structural member in the way of centering the drain. A typical critic with no solution.
@@bartosullivan8050 did it say it was the case in the video? I know lots of owners who would not pay for any extra even though there is an affordable solution
Where do you order this system?
How do I attach frame for shower door to that styrofoam curb?
So does the foam pan come presloped?
Usually all foam pans have a pre-built slope. Haven’t used one that hasn’t
Isaac, do you still recommend the RSS shower pans?
Yes I do! They are great
@@TileCoach I am installing a 48X96 tiled shower. One drain or two drains? What would you do with the shower pan? Drypack or foam?
I love that RSS makes custom pans, I’ll have to check them out. But when installing them, shouldn’t you try to have your trowel lines go in the direction of the shortest travel relative to the thing being set? Because the pan was made up of 2 pieces the lines should have run from the valve wall side to the open side on your right. Great content, thanks for sharing!
Awesome
Why not just widen the shower slightly so the drain would be centered?
The fact you were able to open that abs without vice grips...
Can you use this pan with a pan liner?
You certainly could! However, the primary idea of the a custom made pre sloped pan is all about time saving (not having to do a mud bed pre-slope, getting the right pitch, keeping the perimeter level, clean up etc.)... however you still have to waterproof the pan when you waterproof the walls. That said, I guess for piece of mind... if you ever had a seam failure in your waterproofing a pan liner as backup would be a great second line of defense.
Aren't those foam pans expensive? Surely, dry pack has to be far cheaper and provides just as good/better product, with a lot more flexibility as to where the drain is located.
Same price dry pack about 400$ shluter bit more $$
Any dea of price per SF ?
It all depends on the size and/or if you can use one of their off the shelf standard sized pans. For a custom pan it depends on how customized the pan needs to be, the number and type of drains etc. But just for rough estimate... if the pan design is not too crazy you can get a rough idea if you figure $60 to $75 per sq ft.
Have you or anyone else tried the built with foam shower pans?
Why do so many use styrofoam in showers? What's wrong with the traditional method?
Nothing wrong with the traditional tried and true method other than it being labor intensive and requiring more skills to install (e.g. right materials, proper knowledge, proper slope, liner, water proofing etc) Styrofoam pans come pre-sloped and waterproof right out of the box. Just attach them to the floor via thinset. The primary downsides of styrofoam pans is cost (i.e., more expensive than traditional) and floor tiles smaller than 2" are NOT recommended because of they offer poor weight distribution. Tile Coach did a great video showing the potential downside of sytrofoam pans. See his video titled: FOAM VS MUD --- Drop Test 2x2 Porcelain Tile Shower Pan
I used KBRS shower system, it's great shower pan , not sure why the pro. don't use it, I think KBRS great for DIY project.
I would have installed the base first, That would have allowed the sheet membrane to extend up the wall for at least 4 to 6 inches. Correct?
They're going to ship the membrane with just enough coverage to cover the pan. You can order the banding in 50' or 100' rolls.
How much was this shower system?
1000$
No primer on the ABS?
level is horizantal
, plumb is vertical.
Good luck in a few years with a foam base spend some money and get a tile ready pan
Schluter All-set is sh!t compared to other premium modified thinsets, it lacks the grip on some porcelains. But fine for foam!
drain is way far off center..
If you guys are willing to pay these prices for a piece of Styrofoam, have at it.
Just doesn't look any easier or better than floating a cement pan to me. Certainly not cheaper.
tmnzsu
VOR.RED
How come you did put thinset on the bottom of the curb?