ThePeoplesChamp I kinda see where he is coming from, Battlefield has change it slow pace to fast pace in their games. But you're right, Both are heavily different games.
It was a weird trailer, especially for a first reveal. I still doubt it'll be anything like COD, no more than you could say about any past titles. There seems to be more emphasis on defensive play from what I've heard, so that'll probably slow the pace down a bit.
Oh no, here we go again. The problem is not the inclusion of women in game itself, but the fact that it was done in sort of distasteful way. There were tons of examples of heroic women who fought in ww2, you just need to research a little bit. Non of them were augmented quickscopers with faces painted blue. And yes, the game can be both historically accurate and fun (apologies for grammar)
I think the weirdest choice was making the woman with the metal arm the front cover, interesting choice. FYI i know James tends to be on the "leftist" side but i haven't watched much of their political videos so can anyone describe to me what James tends to say on topics like this?
James lambasted the developers of Kingdom Come Deliverance over their decision to not include people of colour in their game on account of there being so little historical evidence for them that statistically they weren't even there.
I think the point is that the battlefield crew are incorporating women into the game in a very distasteful manner. Why not have a campaign mission when you play as a female OSS agent in France and not a pirate? For black people, why not have a mission where you are a part of “Patton’s Panthers” (an all black Sherman tanker group)? Why not have a beginning where it’s Pearl Harbor and have it switch between a us pilot fighting the Japanese in the air, Doris Miller, the black cook who got on an AA gun to fight against the Japanese, and a female nurse attending to the wounded? Hell, if we are including EVERYONE why not have missions in the view of the Japanese and Germans? There’s a way you can incorporate EVERYONE into a WW2 game (because everyone was effected by WW2) that is tasteful and actually recognizes the heroism’s all these real people have done
THEY MAY WELL DO THIS. in the single player i will bet my left testicle that they will provide a "story book" type of campaign with stories a WHOLE BUNCH more authentic then the multiplayer. they KNOW ww2 and they are not stupid, they just want the money they are gonna get from customisation and the added incentive for females to buy the game
Because all the Lefty idiots want is Blacks and Women to be seen and not heard. They just want visual representation, and are scared shitless of making any of these characters actual Humans with emotions and opinions. Or, Those same Lefties riot over what they made the "woman or black person" think/feel. They are so offended at everything you cannot go too little or too much... Just "cameo" in what makes them not call the Media and say words like Racists/Sexists. These Liberals/Lefties are like Cultural Terrorists. Look at Cod WaW.... Then look at this garbage.
Hurricane Matthew Which ironically reveals a Left ideal, that is inherently racist and sexist. "This black, redhead, disabled woman fighting in WW2 clearly officially trained and apart of this squad... Better shut her fucking mouth and not reveal anything about why or how she is. Or I might not like it."
I feel like the problem is people jumped on the women and hook arm train before complaining about what actually looked bad, like knee sliding with a lmg and shooting a grenade in the air that blew up a plane that was 2ft from the floor
The trailer didn’t represent any of the cool things they’re adding to this game that actually made me interested, and I’ve been staying away from EA for years. They talked about a whole lot of cool things and the trailer was just.. a mess.
A few strawmans at the beginning but... I think the problem is definitions are getting confused. There is a huge difference between historically realistic and historically authentic. Most people want authentic because it can still be fun and be truly immersive too, and realistic wouldn't be fun because you'd have to include all the trivial things of life.
Medovukha I think they did say it wasn’t historically accurate in their closed doors press according to some people anyways you’re mad at this game yet call of duty WW2 has black female nazis so I don’t understand why BFV has the alt-rights outrage about history and not any other game? Literally anybody with a sane mind understands it’s just a videogame not a history bio pic.
Uh...first of all why would Battlefield fans give a fuck about call of duty? Second, CoD got a lot of shit for having black female nazis. And third, alt rights outrage? So everyone who disagrees with DICE is an alt righter? Surely if it's just a video game, then the same can be said about movies right? If a movie about Amelia Earhart was being made but now she's a blind male, you would have no problem with that correct? It's just a movie after all.
DatGrunt No I’m only referring to people who harp on the fact that there are women in a VIDEOGAME. Rather than disagree with the fortnite aesthetic or new game mechanics you know the core elements that make a game fun to play. I’m sure the last thing people care about is who they are playing as or if the gun actually existed at that time. Soon as the game starts nobody gives a fuck about that. So literally it’s just a culture of outrage because there’s not a penis on the cover. CoD did not get the same amount of “historically accurate” pitchforks and Lynch mobs that BFV is currently getting and you know that’s true. Is it because BF fanboys are actually upset or because again we just love to be outraged over trivial things (like videogames) So you’re going to draw a connection with a movie about an actual person’s life made into a film about their life (which honestly would dramatize scenes for a movie audience) to a videogame that is not based on anybody’s life but more based on a setting and how new characters created in this setting experience their story? You see the disconnect there right? One is clearly a bio pic of a historical person that couldn’t be changed the other is a game that can and by definition is fantastical in nature. BF has always been war/fantasy anyways the only difference is that people actually care now for some reason. Which is stupid because if this game is so offensive then every game before and after this about WW2 should be held in that regard because nothing is 100% historically accurate because well it’s a fucking videogame. And for the record I think this BFV looks like shit from the trailer because the vibe is totally different from BF1. BF1 was an amazing game but we’ll see once BFV is out if it holds up because I’m not an angry person and I like games. Yes i would prefer if it had the same vibe as BF1 but I have an open mind, I don’t control the studios vision, and I’m not an idiot.
John nailed it with the "disrespecting the memory of a war". It's brutal. We just (in the US) observed memorial day. I have friends buried at Riverside national cemetery who died in Afghanistan. War is brutal, it's not fun, and every day that a war continues is a tragedy. Alot of those friends that died we're gamers, I wouldn't expect them to somehow be honored in the form of a shooter video game. They played COD, not because it was realistic or honored their fallen comrades, but because it was fun and competitive.
Salty Saxon while I'd respect any intent for a piece of media to do so, the problem with games is they need to be fun or at least enjoyable to play. The burden of honoring their memory is up to those who survived them.
Your friends are dead. Stop using their names for your political gains. The last thing they need is you using their life for your hatred and excuses. Unless you could proved that your friends support your agenda, please shut up because it's disrespectful to them. My grandfather died in WW2. Can I have a say in this matter using his name? NO.
NNT Flow I can tell you his friends did support it. I have friends in the military, they took an Oath to defend the Constitution. Go read the first amendment and learn what it means. Unless 2/3rds of the states vote to remove the 1st amendment, game devs can make whatever game they please.
NNT Flow my agenda is to support fun games? I'm not looking for any political gains. I'm saying the idea of game needs to be "accurate" to honor those who died is a bogus idea. Games are interactive in a way to be fun to play and engaging and competitive, not honorary. Thanks for the input, I feel it's unwarranted, but I'm glad you feel comfortable enough to voice it.
Admitting straight away that I have not watched this podcast, just giving my opinion on the BF5 trailer and why I personally don't like it: The Battlefield series was always meant to be fairly arcade, but even in doing so it strove for some semblance of--not realism, let's say, but perhaps recreation. In BF1942, the maps were named for real battles in WWII. The vehicles, weapons, and uniforms were all used. They had some semblance of their real-life counterparts, even though again it was mostly buried under an arcade combined arms game. But sticking true to form in some way counted. The same was with Battlefield: Vietnam. When the modern Battlefields came along (2, 3, 4, Bad Companies), they could play how they liked with the story and battles because it was all based on the dev's imagination. They didn't have a time period to compare against. Battlefield 1 was a return to a historical setting and I think they did a good job of balancing the arcade, fast-paced combined arms that is true to Battlefield with the brutality and impact of the actual conflict. The singleplayer campaign and multiplayer Operation cutscenes pay great attention to the trials, tribulations, and beings of actual soldiers from all ends of the conflict--not just Americans and Germans, but Russians, Italians, Turks, Belgians, etc. That's really impressive to include them and make their voices heard in some way. The trailer from BF5 was pandering. Female British special forces with chippy "'ello guvna" talk in the middle of close quarters conflict? Shooting a plane down using a grenade? It was far too transparent. As one other commenter says, there are so many female heroes in WWII and they for some reason felt they had to create a non-existent one (British female specops), then top it off with all that ridiculous action. It feels far too Call of Duty and not at all Battlefield. Perhaps it will look different in the future. It's one thing to based a game in a historical time period, it's another to bastardize that time period while doing so.
Thanks, I appreciate it, and all the likes too. It means I conveyed myself well :) I almost wouldn't mind the female specops if at the very least she was gritty and stressed by the combat in which she was partaking, not just like "ooh hoo what a walk in a park killing Jerries is."
Why would they put a historically accurate female war hero in a multiplayer trailer? The whole point was to showcase the soldier customization we have access to, something people complained we didn’t have in BF1. I honestly doubt this game will be more arcade like than previous battlefield titles. We have confirmed information that DICE are adding animations to everything you do in game. No longer can you just stand on a med bag and heal, it requires and animation now. I think people are reading far too much into the trailer “gameplay” and not actually looking into the changes they’re making to game mechanics.
Basically, the problem is they promised a "realistic and immersive" WW2 experience, then followed it up with a female version of Captain Hook from Peter Pan in the trailer, which, to be honest, I doubt is realistic in any sort of conflict. Really they shouldn't have gone with the "realistic and immersive" and they'd be fine, at least more so than they are currently as they would be able to exercise their artistic freedoms without destroying peoples expectations of what the game was going to be like.
"Basically, the problem is they promised a "realistic and immersive" WW2 experience, then followed it up with a female version of Captain Hook" Please source me the quote "Realistic". As far as i know they never said this, but could be wrong. Immersive was mentioned in terms of a game play perspective, server side physics, dragging, support medics, team coordination emphasis, fortifications, bullet penetration, situational animations is all evidence towards that claim . "at least more so than they are currently as they would be able to exercise their artistic freedoms without destroying peoples expectations of what the game was going to be like." This is the problem. "destroying expectations" is ludicrous. Say i read a book, i finish the book, i'm upset that it didnt match MY thematic expectations. Should the publisher now be held accountable and apologise? Just because people expected the same gritty, rehashed WW2 shooter on the beaches of Normandy doesn't mean DICE are at fault for any of it, its not an argument at this point.
Nathan Mitchell If you read a book on history that contained events and statements that literally never happened, then yes you would have a right to be upset.
Did you play BF1? A WW1 game with little trench warfare and most people were running around with fully auto smgs or semi-automatic rifles, WHICH IS HILARIOUS UNACCURATE.
The trailer really resonated with me. My Grandfather fought in WWII and was a part of Operation Market Garden. He never talked about it with anyone, not even my Grandma. Apart from one night, when it was really late and we both had had a bit to drink. We were talking about scars and injuries we had received throughout our life. We were tipsy and in high spirits but he then pulled back his sleeve to show me a 4" scar just above his elbow and the mood changed as his smile dropped. He told me he and his best friend were hold up in the first floor of a house in a small French town they had recently liberated from the Germans. They were woken in the middle of the night by explosions and gunfire as the Germans had launched a midnight counter-attack to retake the town. My Grandfather fed the Bren gun ammunition as his friend frantically fired out of the bedroom window across the field below as German infantry ran towards. Suddenly, a Panzer round hit the house and both were flown backwards by the impact. My Grandfather didn't take much of the impact unlike his friend. My Grandfather told me how he held and comforted his friend as he lay dying on the ground, guts pouring out of his stomach. His friend, Natoshi Sakamoto, was in his late 60s and was - at that time - the reigning Dance Dance Revolution world champion. His last words were "Beat my world record, beat my world recort". My Grandfather proceeded to take Natoshi's lucky Official Dance Dance Revolution mat out of his satchel and wore it around his shoulders like a cape. Then Lizzie, the British general, burst through the bedroom door on her segway and screamed to retreatw whilst doing multiple 360 turns. It was then that an Imperial Walker tore through the house as it blasted Haddaway through the loudspeakers. I never found out what happened next as my Grandfather burst into tears. I comforted him and we had another drink. We never spoke of that night since.
No they didn't, it was always about immersion. Which has nothing to do with historical accuracy. Why even care? Let them add their own spin to this setting. You can find normal WW2 games everywhere.
Yes it does, anyone who has reasearched anything about ww2 and makes an attempt to be immersed, will be quickly taken out by seeing a 80% of what was in the trailer, apart from the female british commando, muzzle brake on an mg42? British sas wearing pathfinder face paint? Katana weilding bf 109 pilot? Being immersed in world war 2 requires the setting and historical accuracy to be on par.
If they said that they want historical accuracy than it IS stupid. If not then it's okay. Doesn't really bother me and I dont really play shooters so... yeah
I said this on the Kingdom Come video too but you feel like realism in game setting and realism in game mechanics are the same thing. Game mechanics do not represent much of the atmosphere. Obviously hopping from a tank to a boat to a turret is not the same as playing on an alternate universe ww2 in the discussion of realism or atmosphere.
It's interesting how star wars battlefront stays visually accurate to the films. But they altered the cannon to make the game more fun by having battles between jedis that never occurred. They managed to maintain visual accuracy for a fictional world but they somehow can't do that with a real life event. They could have made the game visually accurate to ww2 and had scenarios that never existed to make the game more fun.
How is it not visually accurate? There was women and face paint and prosthetics and all that shit from the trailer- yes usually not all in the same place at the same time... Just like the fucking star wars games they put them all together for funzies.. None of your shitposts hold onto your own fucked up, nonsensical internal logic. Are you fucking high?
They have to go heavy with the customisations because they getting rid of the season pass also to start charging for lame things like beards and facial scars you're going to wind up and just as much shit as a basketball game that tried it
Jaden Oldfield The irony is that the only mind-bogglingly confusing post in this thread is yours. I'm having trouble even understanding what the fuck you're saying. Are you implying that women, face paint, and prosthetics are visually accurate?
Women in video games is fine, pretty sure Medal of Honour did it years ago, it's not women necessarily it's the agenda of the developers. Them talking about 'being on the right side of history' is fucking weird. But the blatant disrespect to history in favour of politics and appealing to people who don't even play games is worrying, Assassin's Creed Origins in its historically accurate mode changed historical artefacts to be more inclusive. I don't think Battlefield will go that far, their fanbase is still 90% men.
I agree I feel that it really shouldn’t be a big deal but it’s the fact that if we don’t do it assholes who are pc will cry cause they done it with the battlefield one and the other side their doing it now but those people are the ones saying I’m tired of herring the bull shit please stop being pc it’s a dam if you do dam if u don’t thing
It's a guess and considering it's a violent video game about war I can't imagine very many women play it, you're kind of ignoring the main point of what I'm saying but I'll delete it if it bothers you ;) And Assassin's Creed Origins was a disrespect to history, never said Battlefield V was. But I can see why people are up in arms to prevent that kind of thing that happened in Origins happening in other games, like Battlefield V. And I'm not buying Battlefield V so I'm not "playing a simulated bloodsport of the war that killed millions" actually. Games can be respectful and still present war. The original Medal of Honor games did it incredibly well I think, each mission started with footage of the time and described in detail the event, unless I'm thinking of another WW2 game. It taught people who may not understand what they're playing the feat of human endurance that came about in response to the threat during World War 2. I have a feeling Battlefield V won't do anything like this but I'm reserving full judgement until then.
As for people of color, both the British and French had hundreds of thousands of colonial troops from all over the place fight for them. As for women, the Soviets, Yugoslavs, and partisans in many countries had women fight for them. I really don't care either way. Its a game, and I never expected it to realistically mimic history.
"Style guides from the American Heritage Guide to Contemporary Usage and Style, the Stanford Graduate School of Business, and Mount Holyoke College all recommend the term "person of color" over other alternatives. Unlike "colored", which refers only to blacks and is often considered offensive, "person of color" and its variants refer inclusively to all non-European peoples-often with the notion that there is political solidarity among them-and "are virtually always considered terms of pride and respect. In other words, go pound sand.
I will say though, I don't care about historical accuracy in multiplayer, but if they make out in the singleplayer that female soldiers were in the Allied forces I will not be amused. This is often called whitewashing history. Women fought in World War 2 as part of Partisan, Resistance forces or in the Russian army. There are stories of women doing some amazing stuff in World War 2. To just wipe all that away and pretend like women were just standard on European battlefields I would find really fucked up. In Call of Duty: Finest Hour, back when the series would switch between perspectives of soldiers in different theatres of war, one of the characters you played as was a female sniper in the Red Army. This is the perfect way to do this. Let us see fighting women of the French resistance fighting guerrilla warfare against Italian and German soldiers. Give me a BF1 style intro with the 1077th Anti-Aircraft Regiment in the battle of Stalingrad. A regiment made up of young female volunteers in their late teens who, when assaulted by a German armoured division simply tilted their AA guns to ground level and fired at the tanks instead of retreating. They fought until the very last "man" and by the time they were finally wiped out they'd destroyed destroyed 85 tanks, 15 transport vehicles and 14 aircraft, along with the 3 battalions of infantry that they dispersed. Don't just invent a world where female soldiers were normal, that is painting a fine coat of bullshit over the past and is most detrimental to the feats women DID achieve during the war.
honestly battlefield multiplayer has also been batshit silly ever since Bad Company and 1943. The multiplayer trailer they released just seems like par for the course to me.
The single player for Bad Company was a squad going AWOL and trying to steal some dictator's gold...I think women in BF is far more accurate than that scenario. EDIT- Oh! Just to add, the ending of Bad Company 2 is you skydiving out of a cargo plane carrying a doomsday EMP weapon and killing the bad guy on the way down, then landing safely with his parachute. How was the immersion preserved then?
Tom Hanson because both bad companies were not made after any real events like world war. They said bf5 game is historicaly accurate/authentic, then they should stick to that if they are already promoting it in that way.
Wait, so WW3 hasn't happened? Oh, if only I didn't learn my current events and geopolitical history from a video game... Anybody that thinks that they are learning the full history of WWII from a video game doesn't really care about the history of WWII. The only safe way of learning about World War II is reading about it, every other medium bends the truth.
Also I don't think they added women just to add women, based on their statements it sounds like they just want to give the women that play the game the ability to customize a character that represents them.
The funny thing is the game missions actually showed no crazy prosthetics or female soldiers aside from resistance fighters, it was actually pretty tame and accurate.
Something that Funhaus could do would be to have debates, where each person is given a stance on a subject and a set amount of time to prepare their argument.
Battlefield 1 was no where close to being historically accurate, so this game is just following that trend. Also, plenty of women served in WW2 on the European front.
The political podcasts are the worst. Especially when they have no clue what they're talking about for most of it. No research clearly. Battlefield Vietnam had every major battle from the conflict. In the US women were first allowed to take infantry jobs in 2016. Other countries (Russia) utilized women as fighters in WWII. Though to be fair, it really doesn't matter to have women in the game since, it's a fucking game. Is the entertainment industry going SJW? Yes. Look at every movie and TV show of the last 5 years. Lead roles have shifted. Supporting roles have shifted.. Both to push an agenda. Good, bad, who cares but it is happening. The panelists just need to be a lot less biased, more educated, and should stay away from the political subjects.
I wouldn't call Baywatch (2016) SJW.... Or Fury, or The Emoji Movie. Definitely not Hut Tub Time Machine 2, or God's Not Dead numbers 1-3. Yes, perceptions in the film industry change over time. Just like all other perceptions change. In the early 1800s, female characters were played by men because women weren't allowed to act. In the 1100s, it was widely believed that the earth was flat. Isn't it funny how the past keeps rearing its ugly head?
The issue is that they aren't presenting the history as it was. Women played a negligible combat role in the second world war. Its fine to have it as an option, but don't claim that you are presenting history in a realistic way and that you are on the "right side of history" when you put a disabled woman as the forefront of the marketing. If this was a new IP or a blatant alt-history it would be cool, but considering what they have said this game is supposed to be it isn't reasonable.
James, the French, Chinese Nationalists, and Germans did not field women as part of their regular armies as combat troops. A few Women did see combat as part of resistance movements and partisan movements in these countries. The Soviets and Chinese Communists did use women as combat troops when it was necessary, but they were largely kept from frontline service when possible.
Jonathan, I just spent 5 minutes trying to find the tweet. I remember seeing it and being hyped for a WWII battlefield game, and the trailer was such a mindfuck. I would put the Female British Soldier at the bottom of my list of complaints, much rather complain about a Churchill III going mach 7 through a house
The way I see it is that I appreciate the realism of a game, and the historical accuracy of it, but won’t cry if every little thing isn’t 100% correct. Like with Assassins Creed, whenever you start the game it says “based off of historical events.” And I don’t see too many people complaining that a wall crawling man who jumps into hay bails from 20 story buildings, wasn’t recorded into Leonardo da Vinci’s friends list
Slim Junkin I remember seeing a screenshot of assassin's creed origins where they altered a historical artifact to have girls so it was more inclusive. They even stated that they did that in the description text.
A lot of Battlefield fans, for some reason, believe it’s the “realistic” FPS. Yet in reality it’s never really been much more realistic then CoD. As for the race and gender stuff, I get the feeling that this whole historical accuracy argument, is a smoke screen for anger about what some people perceive as a “liberal agenda” being forced on them.
I believe that they said that it was immersive but "we are not historians", and that the game wasn't completely accurate. Also I feel that immersion has different interpretations, for me, immersion is feeling like i am on the field that the game is giving me, not the field in 1944 during Market Garden (which i'm pretty sure is where the trailer was), even when I play more hardcore realistic games like post scriptum, or squad, or the rising storm i never really get the sense that I am in WW2 or a modern day combat situation, but I am in the moment that they have given me, so for me this 90 second trailer does look to me, very immersive. Also no game will ever capture what these events were like, they can come close but they never will, so to hold a game by its realism in a series that has never been historically accurate is in my mind unfortunate.
We're talking about a war where a guy got 50+ confirmed kills with a longbow, guys painted themselves blue, rode horses and killed Nazis with swords, and French revolutionaries scaled buildings to infiltrate Nazi headquarters and murder them. A female amputee with a cricket bat is not that far-fetched
4 white men talking about women representation on art, the irony (before anyone talks shit, it's just a joke, I know their opinion on this kind of stuff)
i donno internet user, sjws camplain when nobody was bothered about it. i just kinda feel sjws are kinda seeking attention, with them wanting to be called zer sle slur slam simp zarg zim zlishl, insted of he him she her or they. it makes me go... wUt.
Adam mentioned that we have never fought with China yet, except we did fight them during the Korean War. Granted that was 60+ years ago so a lot has changed.
I went through youtube, bf forums and twitter and found about 21 people who wanted women not to be in BF5. This was not the main complaint, it wasn't even close to the main complaint. No one gave a shit. BF1 had women in it and no one gave a shit.
The reason why no one complained about women in BF1 is because they were put in realistically. There were 2 women in BF1. The first was as a member of the rebels, and the second was purely as snipers in the russian army in the russian expansion. BTW I do not care about whether women are in battlefield or not.
Deadass people blew this way out of proportion. No one gives a fuck about women being in battlefield. No on gives a fuck if females are in every video game, that's not the point people were upset about. People are upset about how out of place all the shit in that trailer was. All they fucking said was here is WW2 game, and the first character we see is a half robotic women with a giant piece of wood with nails in it. SOMETHING NONE OF US EVER LEARNED ABOUT IN HISTORY CLASS. If all they said was were going to make a WWII style game with our own twist on it, then people would have went, okay that makes sense. Instead we get guys sliding around with machine guns, badass women with swords, and a bunch of other crap in a game thats supposed to be about WW2? The amount of articles I've seen about guys hating women in battlefield is the biggest lie. I have not heard or seen anyone state women shouldn't be in video games. This is just click bait garbage.
I like how they neglect the campaigning slogan "is it real or is it battlefield". Everyone forgets that this is what battle has always been known for. They use to make game trailers showing realism. But the trailer for bf5 is just to cartoony and this is why people feel like this is such a weird approach for a battlefield game.
I think the main point to the many people complaining is that we have enough games that are "goofy", but only battlefield is battlefield. It is just the right amount of realism and arcade, and very few other game series are like this. If I want 100% realism I would play ARMA or Squad or something like that. For full arcade I would go for COD and such. Battlefield managed to hit the sweetspot right in between, but it is tipping dangerously over to the "Glowing-person-in-wheelchair-flying-across-the-sky-while-wielding-a-lightsaber"-side, and this is scaring people (me too). Also I dont like that people force "equality" down my throat with every media I consume. It is nice to be mentioned, I get it, but I dont complain to EA that the newest FIFA or MADDEN doesnt contain fat people, just because I am.
Lawrence. DudeSoup is my favorite thing that Funhaus makes every week. I always admire how earnestly you attempt to represent multiple views around your subjects. I love how you guys can add industry insight into popular topics to help clarify and explain what is happening to plebs like me. And I love Hard Nettin' because it is super creative and I enjoy sharing all of the treasures with my friends. I know I'm only one opinion, but this is a great podcast!
Well reality sucks. But that's what happen in the comment section of the trailers. Mainly because they know they could get away with it on the internet.
Strapping C4 to ATV’s and jumping out and detonating them in Bad Company is literally what Battlefield is all about. It sucked that you couldn’t strap dynamite to horses in Battlefield 1.
I like getting the female french resistance lady from Dino D-Day eaten by the T-Rex. Maybe Battlefield V should add dinosaurs and cybernetic nazi soldiers to the gamw.
Way I see it... as a video game to me it doesn't matter to am extent. If a developer wants to put in woman and multiple races into a game... fine. And last year we had this same exact conversation about women in WWII with CoD... yes women did serve but only for specific countries and in specific roles. With being historically accurate, Battlefield as an entire franchise has not been that. If you want proof that you can see for yourself right now, go play Battlefield 1. If the War Stories are going to be based off actual events and the like, then yes, being as accurate as possible (with few liberties taken here and there) is what should be done. If it is a fictious campaign that is just set during WWII (see Saving Private Ryan) then you can take more liberties but cannot go off the deep end. When it comed to multiplayer, I could care less. Why? I just tore some poor soul asunder with an MG42, and in about 15 seconds he is going to disappear from the world in front of me, and be resurrected somewhere on the map. None of these factors should truly change if you are having fun in a video game or not. If they do, your priorities are really out of order. Side note: the BF3 gameplay you chose to display is everything that is wromg with BF games today: someone playing recon doing jack shit and not playing the objective.
ChipJones421 Exactly. Plus people dont know all the history anyways there was a whole lot more to criticize in that trailer going bye what they were wearing weapons tanks etc. And lots of people fail to realize that India had the largest volunteer army in history and the French resistance was led by the African colonies
I didnt see many people complaining about the race part as there was multiple people fighting world wide but women did not fight usually even though they were trained to. If women were around combatants it was usually because they were spies.
I don't know if anyone remembers but this has been a recurring complaint in BF games since BF3. People went ballistic when DICE had the SHEER CHEEK to change the US medic from white to black at release. So many people cried it was pandering, political correctness etc etc. People will always find something to be upset about.
They didn't even know who Travis Scott was. I doubt they know anything about Push. It blows my mind how little they know about pop culture. That being said, I want that podcast.
Snapphat In 2143 the political climate is just cold......very very cold. Oh you were talking about politics sorry everyone is slowly dying as the last wars are waging.
One of the differences that should be pointed out is that historical inaccuracies for gameplay purposes should be separate from historical inaccuracies for tokenism and inclusion.
In regards to the "this is disrespectful to the people who experienced the horrors of WW2 combat" think about this. If a movie or a game was based around the hardships of slaves in America, but they made the cast half white in order to "be inclusive", it would be considered offensive to the black community for misrepresenting who really suffered through slavery primarily. Added masses of females (and other minorities to some extent) to WW2's front line is the exact same thing.
Chosen Hunter7 but India in WW2 still to this day had the largest standing volunteer army and the French Resistance was led by Africans and women(of course plenty of white men as well)
In all fairness, women did participate in combat in WW2. As did people of color? Like, yeah on the American side women did more medical work and repairs and the likes, but women really did fight in WW2. Plus, it's a video game at the end of the day. It's kind of dumb to try to claim historical accuracy should be kept when you don't die in one hit, and you're all basically super soldiers. People just need to enjoy a game and chill.
37:00 hmmm we heard something completely different couple podcasts ago (kingdom come podcast, most disliked video so far just for that reason) Too bad Adam wasn't around back then. Just saying.
If Adam wants to remodel houses in a FPS, he should play Rainbow Six Siege, the whole game on defense is about remodeling the map with the operators's gadgets.
Why are people getting angrier about a woman being in the trailer rather than a prosthetic hand, cricket bat with nails or anti-aircraft grenade? I mean, this isn't exactly fucking Dunkirk, it's a goofy multiplayer trailer for a game series that left realism behind a long time ago. Why are people suddenly demanding historical accuracy?
Actually people are pissed about the BRITISH woman in the trailer, not just the woman, if they had made her Russian or French it would have been absolutely 100% fine. And people ARE pissed about the fucking plastic arm, the cricket bat, the AA Grenade, the fucking bare-chested bald fuck with face paint, the goddamn katana wielding brit, and the token black guy in an otherwise all white unit All this flies in the face of historical accuracy, but more importantly immersion. If we want idiotic fun, most people go to COD, because it is just idiotic fun. But people want to experience a WW2 experience as close as possible to what WW2 was actually like, and everything we saw in the trailer flies in the face of that. It's got nothing to do with sexism, or racism whatsoever.
If you look at the channels/profiles of the people that are angry at the game (not all but most) they usually post pro alt-right/wehrboo and incels stuff, i looked at the profiles/channels when Cod ww2 came out an there were alot of pro nazi people screaming at the game, and they probably use the historical accuracy as an excuse to complain.
All the bf3 dlc's Bf3: Close quarters was Ziba Tower, Donya Fortress( amazing map), and Operations 315. Bf3: Armored kill was maps emphazing massive tank combat ( should've been in bf1 Bf3: Back to Karkand is something everyone knows and it has wake island a map from 1942 Bf3: aftermath was took place in the literal aftermath of an earthquake and soldiers can only use their sidearms with almost no bullets and find primary weapons laying about for players to use. One of the maps was Epicenter. Bf3: End game introduced capture the flag and motocross maps Yeet
The vast majority of people upset over Battlefield V are concerned with its historical inaccuracy. Trolls are the only ones saying "women shouldn't be in video games." But according to the National WWII Museum website: "Women in uniform took office and clerical jobs in the armed forces in order to free men to fight. They also drove trucks, repaired airplanes, worked as laboratory technicians, rigged parachutes, served as radio operators, analyzed photographs, flew military aircraft across the country, test-flew newly repaired planes, and even trained anti-aircraft artillery gunners by acting as flying targets. Some women served near the front lines in the Army Nurse Corps, where 16 were killed as a result of direct enemy fire." Even General Eisenhower felt that we could not win the war without the aid of the women in uniform. However, the Battlefield V trailer puts a whole new spin on the role of women in the war. It feels a lot more like a ham-fisted feminist move than a cool video game fictional twist. That's what's got people upset. Don't put politics in video games.
Imagine if we made a zulu game and replaced everyone with white people. It doesn't have to be a simulator, but at least respect the historical context in which this game takes place. If you want to alter history, Fine, as long as you state that it is an alternate history.
They showed one woman in the trailer...and your acting like every soldier in the game was replaced by women. This is what I call over exaggeration. Even battlefield one wasn't faithful to World War history but no one cared until battlefield 5 showed one woman in a trailer.
If you play a game you should go into it not expecting any historical accuracy. They're inspired by historical events but are not trying to replicate those events to a T. They're attempting to make a fun game that will sell to a large audience. These games don't have any obligation to be "historically accurate" and we shouldn't be taking it so seriously.
GhoulEnix umm, it wasn't just a woman, it was some celtic one-armed sniper woman with a cricket bat, a dude wearing a wife beater, and a black US soldier carrying a katana. This shit is straight outta battlefield heroes
because that's what it is. "diversity" for the sake of diversity is patronizing and insulting to the people who consume the media, and ACTUALLY participated in the represented events
this 100% and the media wonders why more and more gamers/geeks are becoming right wing. everything they love from warhammer 40k to magic to video games is being changed for the sake of 0.1% of the demographic
I love the slowness of BF. My favorite times playing I played as a sniper and sat on top of a building or hill for 10 minutes just waiting for that possibly 1 kill. I'd shot, i'd miss, i'd shoot, i'd get a kill and I'd be like "hell yea" and then go back to sitting for 10 minutes
Great podcast guys love it as always. comments about being glad James isn't in it seriously bugs me tho. Is it that hard to listen to somebody's opinion that you don't agree with? #MoreJames
I have to ask, what point is there discussing how accurate a game's settings are? It wont change anything, it's just a game. Just seems like people want to find stuff to be angry about instead of having fun. I am not talking about the people in this video, I mean the ones who are actually offended by a video game.
What's the point in the games setting being accurate? Well, if it's not important to represent the setting properly, why use that as a setting to begin with?
Who cares? It's a video game. Why take a video game serious? Why do people want to try to make a video game something real and then be angry about it? None of it makes sense. Am I the only one in the world who plays a game because I just want to? Why make it a thing that influences your real life actions by making you overly sensitive to anything and then bitch about it online?
Ash games are based off of real settings to begin with to: 1. Make it easier to actually produce a game. 2. Give it a hook. I want you to come back to me with 8 made up countries, each with histories thousands of years old. If you can finish that, come back to me with 500 different made up weapons, completely different from anything made before in history. Maybe now you can understand why it's a lot easier to copy the past loosely instead of spending 10 years making up entirely new things
Allied Kingdom, Francois Republic, Unified States. You don't need to create your own history, but if you want to change existing history, making up new names for them so it's clear that it's not our actual history, is a good start.
What I took from this was that Bruce and Adam want to play more Battlefield 1 which I think was one of their funniest series. Can we please see more of that? Or just stream it so we can play with you?
what i dont like is that as a white male i have to feel bad about everything all past white males have done, but at the same time sjw's want to give all white male hardships and accomplishments to women and people of colour. Imagine a movie about american slavery with white women and men as slaves, just for inclusion. it would certainly take away from the hardships of the african americans infact it would cause outrage...i love black culture i love asian culture i think women are awesome but why is it that my white western strong powerful artistic beautiful culture is demonized so much...surely thats racism... Edit: i dont give a fuck if women or black people are in a video game Im talking sjw culture as a whole
I'm surprised that more people haven't made this connection. WW2 was the most deadly war in history, and it was fought by men around the world. You could have battles in Burma and North Africa with people of colour, and nobody would care because those battles really happened and those people pride themselves on their soldiers' actions during the war. When it comes to European/American men, however, that pride is not allowed. D-Day MUST be portrayed with women and black people running around for the sake of inclusion, regardless of the immense sacrifice of real human beings.
dude black people living in LA and most of america have better lives than majority of white people living in Australia. fuck up about privilege its not race based its monetary based. and i would know because im aborginal australia and every single white person ive met has been worse off then me
The people complaining about the girl in the trailer weren't going "Women shouldn't be in videogames ever", Lawrence. Don't immediately demonize people or assume they are freakin neonazis because you don't agree with what they say. You do this thing of ridiculing what you don't agree with and as the person that introduces the talking point you should try to be more impartial while you do it. Once the point is on the table, then you can say whatever you want, but don't open up the conversation trashing the opinion like that. They where complaining about women being included in what they *assumed* would be a factually accurate ww2 shooter. Of course, there were some bigots here and there, becasue there always is, it's the Interntet. That being said, devs have said that women soldiers are in the game for people that want to play as one, it's not being forced upon the player so you got people wining about women they may not even see. Besides, the devs at no point said they were making a true to reality ww2 game so all of this it's ridiculous, because you got people complaining not about the game that they are presented with, but about the game that they wanted. DICE getting shit for making the game that they wanted is just dumb.
They should just make a "Classical Era Mode" Which would basically be Hardcore Mode with all customizations and skins that would be considered inaccurate for the time/nation in-game disabled. Boom, everyone is happy.
This was a good discussion. I enjoyed it a lot. Thank god, James and Elyse weren’t in this. I think if they were here this wouldn’t be as good because they are too set in their ways.
VideoAmigos It’s because of their PC ways and the majority of their older audiences aren’t SJW or PC like. I mean I usually watched there content for their offensive humor. But knowing they live in LA, a cesspool of disgust in my opinion. Of course these people would be very liberal in a sense. So that’s probably the reason.
VideoAmigos Me too man, I’m one of the OGs when they started as well. But since lately I can tell they are pretty PC despite their offensive humor in certain videos. James showed that in one of the podcasts. I’m fine with it, but find it cringe and all round stupid to think his audience is all liberal like minded people. If anything, half us are conservative. Like myself.
If there's anyone stuck in their ways it's the people who can't comprehend a viewpoint that differs from their's, let alone a position that to a certain extent opposes their's.
Solid point from John. Fact is they're already made plenty of authentic battlefield games. It's the developer's choice to go "hey let's try getting wacky with it." Whether it's because they want to mix it up or because they want to keep up with the trends or whether it's a mix of both, they're creative/directive choice. All we have to do is ask ourselves whether we want to buy it and we can't really do that until we've actually seen it. I hope what Laurence said about what Jack said is the case. 'Cause my issue with the trailer was it's pacing and that version of Battlefield Jack's talking about sounds exactly up my alley.
you can write this off as nothing if you so desire, i dont play BF and im just on the outside looking in on this particular subject for the upteenth time: christ almighty. you cant keep throwing in a non-white/male/straight/super he-man whatever character in a project, not just games, but general projects, and then say "if you hate it youre x-cist or y-phobic." games have to also be *good and fun* which _CAN_ be done with inclusion but inclusion needs to not be the main focus. not an omitted focus, but not the main. the creators are forgetting the fact that theyre supposed to be making a project, then it looks shit, and they blame its failure on the audience. and lawrence im sorry to say this, i know you do this both for comedic and general feel of responses to get a reasonable grasp of whats being said on the negative side, but its starting to feel like you cherrypick the actual degenerates that creep around on platforms as opposed to those who actually put some thought into their distaste. because as much as i hear that it happens, i rarely have ever seen someone unironically trash something simply because there was a colored person or woman present. when you do this it gives off an implication that this is one of the main complaints and i swear such points have been contested too many times to be considered in a serious debate. i also gotta wonder, if in all these forced inclusion situations we keep finding ourselves in, are the directors/producers whoever being TOLD to be inclusive, or are they being TOLD to make something good and then saying "lets change AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALL of the defining things. people LOVE change"? and then stomping and shouting at those who vocally disliked it instead of considering what could have been done different? i dunno
I see your point, but I would not really say that they forced inclusion here. It would be forced if for example a role only could be played as a woman or a non-white. What they basically are trying to say is "Look at all the awesome things that can happen in BF: V, oh and you can also customize your character to look like a woman/non-white/whatever. It's your choice". Then again it's way too early to even be judging it. All we have is a teaser that's appearing like a skit or just something wild and weird. Until gameplay, a true trailer and more mechanics have been made public, we don't and won't know how this game is going to be.
I'm disgusted by what Adam said in this ep. The nerve of him trying to pander to a certain audience. The fact that adam thinks he can simply 'be a history buff' since he went to italy because of assasins creed is abhorent and i cant watch anymore of your videos since you through away all your morals to shill out to other history buffs... smh. from - dissapointed
I am 100% on board with the women/minority representation in games, its awesome. As far as the goofiness goes I can actually understand that point because although previous games have had their silly moments its been only because that is what an online community given freedom does best, the game itself still has the grittier more authentic feel. In battlefield 5 that does not seem to be the case; the game itself has the cartoon-y factor baked in and if anything I feel like that is going to make the game less enjoyable because the act of taking a serious war game and running around with only defibrillators is awesome. Still cant wait to play it though. Also I'm worried about the no radius of healing/ammo pickup being someone who would often play medic/support I doubt most players will be paying attention enough to grab the health pack that you're throwing at them. hope its not the case battlefield two or whatever
TheGrace020 Wow another anti sjw with an animal avatar who acts like sjws are destroying society and always portrays the wrost examples of pepole advocating for social justice. This dude is a fucking hack who never punches right.
Bruce basically summed up any thoughts I had on it at 36:00. If a game sets out to be as historically accurate as possible, that's great, more power to it and it shouldn't be bashed for the lack of inclusion. However, if a game doesn't set out for that then I don't feel like it has to be held to the same standard as a game, or any other piece of media for that matter, that has strives for accuracy. If a WW2 game came out that said from the start it strived to be as historically accurate as possible, then this would be an applicable complaint. It's a Battlefield game though, they always take inspiration from history, but they don't represent it accurately. Accuracy has just never been at the top of the franchise's agenda.
Seasonal Loner well yes, if you say so. All previous bfs were if not historically accurate, but at least authentic. It wasn’t problematic to determine what historical era game takes place in. Judging by trailer, bf5 is taking place in some alternative reality with augmented soldiers and steampunky stylistics. I don’t have problem with that, but why won’t they advertise their product according to what it really is?
I felt like this Dude Soup was more well rounded than the Kingdom Come Deliverance one. Lawrence did a good job joking about how touchy people get, and I feel like he tried to get most people's perspectives on the subject. For me, the trailer came off as though they were trying to leech off the Overwatch and Fortnite playerbases (I'm sure there's overlap). I really liked the house clearing scene, but seeing a katana on someone's back just completely pulled me out. Plus, that prosthetic looked like it was moving on its own. It's one thing if they had Russian women, but Tracer with a cricket bat just seemed silly. I feel like I'm in BAD COMPANY, because I see no problem with women in games but prefer the aesthetics to be authentic to WW2.
PEAKE'S WEDDING!!! CONGRATS BRO!!!
I ain't mad about all that stuff for Battlefield V, just heavily confused on why the trailer give me Call of Duty vibes.
maybe because it's the exact same fucking game.
adamisAwsome(ish) lol, no.
ThePeoplesChamp I kinda see where he is coming from, Battlefield has change it slow pace to fast pace in their games. But you're right, Both are heavily different games.
yes this exactly yes
It was a weird trailer, especially for a first reveal. I still doubt it'll be anything like COD, no more than you could say about any past titles. There seems to be more emphasis on defensive play from what I've heard, so that'll probably slow the pace down a bit.
Oh no, here we go again. The problem is not the inclusion of women in game itself, but the fact that it was done in sort of distasteful way. There were tons of examples of heroic women who fought in ww2, you just need to research a little bit. Non of them were augmented quickscopers with faces painted blue. And yes, the game can be both historically accurate and fun (apologies for grammar)
At least james ain't here for this one.
I love hearing their actual opinions because it proves they are not pieces of shit like most of the gaming community
but its a GAME so EVERYONE gets to be a superhero until they got headshot and die
I think the weirdest choice was making the woman with the metal arm the front cover, interesting choice. FYI i know James tends to be on the "leftist" side but i haven't watched much of their political videos so can anyone describe to me what James tends to say on topics like this?
James lambasted the developers of Kingdom Come Deliverance over their decision to not include people of colour in their game on account of there being so little historical evidence for them that statistically they weren't even there.
I think the point is that the battlefield crew are incorporating women into the game in a very distasteful manner. Why not have a campaign mission when you play as a female OSS agent in France and not a pirate? For black people, why not have a mission where you are a part of “Patton’s Panthers” (an all black Sherman tanker group)? Why not have a beginning where it’s Pearl Harbor and have it switch between a us pilot fighting the Japanese in the air, Doris Miller, the black cook who got on an AA gun to fight against the Japanese, and a female nurse attending to the wounded? Hell, if we are including EVERYONE why not have missions in the view of the Japanese and Germans? There’s a way you can incorporate EVERYONE into a WW2 game (because everyone was effected by WW2) that is tasteful and actually recognizes the heroism’s all these real people have done
Hurricane Matthew Why not? Because it's a video game, not a history book or documentary. Video games are mostly art, not educational devices.
@RockBandRS there’s a way you can do both. Call of Duty World at War is a good example of that.
THEY MAY WELL DO THIS. in the single player i will bet my left testicle that they will provide a "story book" type of campaign with stories a WHOLE BUNCH more authentic then the multiplayer. they KNOW ww2 and they are not stupid, they just want the money they are gonna get from customisation and the added incentive for females to buy the game
Because all the Lefty idiots want is Blacks and Women to be seen and not heard. They just want visual representation, and are scared shitless of making any of these characters actual Humans with emotions and opinions. Or, Those same Lefties riot over what they made the "woman or black person" think/feel.
They are so offended at everything you cannot go too little or too much... Just "cameo" in what makes them not call the Media and say words like Racists/Sexists.
These Liberals/Lefties are like Cultural Terrorists. Look at Cod WaW.... Then look at this garbage.
Hurricane Matthew Which ironically reveals a Left ideal, that is inherently racist and sexist.
"This black, redhead, disabled woman fighting in WW2 clearly officially trained and apart of this squad... Better shut her fucking mouth and not reveal anything about why or how she is. Or I might not like it."
I feel like the problem is people jumped on the women and hook arm train before complaining about what actually looked bad, like knee sliding with a lmg and shooting a grenade in the air that blew up a plane that was 2ft from the floor
The whole fuckin trailer is bad
I loved the trailer.
Seems like you guys are gonna have to fight irl
The trailer didn’t represent any of the cool things they’re adding to this game that actually made me interested, and I’ve been staying away from EA for years. They talked about a whole lot of cool things and the trailer was just.. a mess.
the trailer included a PLETHORA of new features. do you not know jackfrags ?
A few strawmans at the beginning but...
I think the problem is definitions are getting confused. There is a huge difference between historically realistic and historically authentic. Most people want authentic because it can still be fun and be truly immersive too, and realistic wouldn't be fun because you'd have to include all the trivial things of life.
Oh and uh Battlefield 1 I guess..
"A few strawmans at the beginning but..."
Where specifically?
Medovukha I think they did say it wasn’t historically accurate in their closed doors press according to some people anyways you’re mad at this game yet call of duty WW2 has black female nazis so I don’t understand why BFV has the alt-rights outrage about history and not any other game? Literally anybody with a sane mind understands it’s just a videogame not a history bio pic.
Uh...first of all why would Battlefield fans give a fuck about call of duty? Second, CoD got a lot of shit for having black female nazis. And third, alt rights outrage? So everyone who disagrees with DICE is an alt righter?
Surely if it's just a video game, then the same can be said about movies right? If a movie about Amelia Earhart was being made but now she's a blind male, you would have no problem with that correct? It's just a movie after all.
DatGrunt No I’m only referring to people who harp on the fact that there are women in a VIDEOGAME. Rather than disagree with the fortnite aesthetic or new game mechanics you know the core elements that make a game fun to play. I’m sure the last thing people care about is who they are playing as or if the gun actually existed at that time. Soon as the game starts nobody gives a fuck about that. So literally it’s just a culture of outrage because there’s not a penis on the cover.
CoD did not get the same amount of “historically accurate” pitchforks and Lynch mobs that BFV is currently getting and you know that’s true. Is it because BF fanboys are actually upset or because again we just love to be outraged over trivial things (like videogames)
So you’re going to draw a connection with a movie about an actual person’s life made into a film about their life (which honestly would dramatize scenes for a movie audience) to a videogame that is not based on anybody’s life but more based on a setting and how new characters created in this setting experience their story? You see the disconnect there right? One is clearly a bio pic of a historical person that couldn’t be changed the other is a game that can and by definition is fantastical in nature. BF has always been war/fantasy anyways the only difference is that people actually care now for some reason. Which is stupid because if this game is so offensive then every game before and after this about WW2 should be held in that regard because nothing is 100% historically accurate because well it’s a fucking videogame.
And for the record I think this BFV looks like shit from the trailer because the vibe is totally different from BF1. BF1 was an amazing game but we’ll see once BFV is out if it holds up because I’m not an angry person and I like games. Yes i would prefer if it had the same vibe as BF1 but I have an open mind, I don’t control the studios vision, and I’m not an idiot.
John nailed it with the "disrespecting the memory of a war". It's brutal. We just (in the US) observed memorial day. I have friends buried at Riverside national cemetery who died in Afghanistan. War is brutal, it's not fun, and every day that a war continues is a tragedy. Alot of those friends that died we're gamers, I wouldn't expect them to somehow be honored in the form of a shooter video game. They played COD, not because it was realistic or honored their fallen comrades, but because it was fun and competitive.
that really got me too. In my opinion, i believe a game can do justice and honour those who served, without disrespecting them
Salty Saxon while I'd respect any intent for a piece of media to do so, the problem with games is they need to be fun or at least enjoyable to play. The burden of honoring their memory is up to those who survived them.
Your friends are dead. Stop using their names for your political gains.
The last thing they need is you using their life for your hatred and excuses. Unless you could proved that your friends support your agenda, please shut up because it's disrespectful to them.
My grandfather died in WW2. Can I have a say in this matter using his name? NO.
NNT Flow I can tell you his friends did support it. I have friends in the military, they took an Oath to defend the Constitution. Go read the first amendment and learn what it means. Unless 2/3rds of the states vote to remove the 1st amendment, game devs can make whatever game they please.
NNT Flow my agenda is to support fun games? I'm not looking for any political gains. I'm saying the idea of game needs to be "accurate" to honor those who died is a bogus idea. Games are interactive in a way to be fun to play and engaging and competitive, not honorary. Thanks for the input, I feel it's unwarranted, but I'm glad you feel comfortable enough to voice it.
Admitting straight away that I have not watched this podcast, just giving my opinion on the BF5 trailer and why I personally don't like it:
The Battlefield series was always meant to be fairly arcade, but even in doing so it strove for some semblance of--not realism, let's say, but perhaps recreation. In BF1942, the maps were named for real battles in WWII. The vehicles, weapons, and uniforms were all used. They had some semblance of their real-life counterparts, even though again it was mostly buried under an arcade combined arms game. But sticking true to form in some way counted. The same was with Battlefield: Vietnam.
When the modern Battlefields came along (2, 3, 4, Bad Companies), they could play how they liked with the story and battles because it was all based on the dev's imagination. They didn't have a time period to compare against.
Battlefield 1 was a return to a historical setting and I think they did a good job of balancing the arcade, fast-paced combined arms that is true to Battlefield with the brutality and impact of the actual conflict. The singleplayer campaign and multiplayer Operation cutscenes pay great attention to the trials, tribulations, and beings of actual soldiers from all ends of the conflict--not just Americans and Germans, but Russians, Italians, Turks, Belgians, etc. That's really impressive to include them and make their voices heard in some way.
The trailer from BF5 was pandering. Female British special forces with chippy "'ello guvna" talk in the middle of close quarters conflict? Shooting a plane down using a grenade? It was far too transparent. As one other commenter says, there are so many female heroes in WWII and they for some reason felt they had to create a non-existent one (British female specops), then top it off with all that ridiculous action. It feels far too Call of Duty and not at all Battlefield.
Perhaps it will look different in the future. It's one thing to based a game in a historical time period, it's another to bastardize that time period while doing so.
Danger Ranger Dan Spot on
Thanks, I appreciate it, and all the likes too. It means I conveyed myself well :) I almost wouldn't mind the female specops if at the very least she was gritty and stressed by the combat in which she was partaking, not just like "ooh hoo what a walk in a park killing Jerries is."
Why would they put a historically accurate female war hero in a multiplayer trailer? The whole point was to showcase the soldier customization we have access to, something people complained we didn’t have in BF1.
I honestly doubt this game will be more arcade like than previous battlefield titles. We have confirmed information that DICE are adding animations to everything you do in game. No longer can you just stand on a med bag and heal, it requires and animation now. I think people are reading far too much into the trailer “gameplay” and not actually looking into the changes they’re making to game mechanics.
Nicely put. Wish EA would read this.
war is sexist and racist. #DiversifyTheFrontline
Basically, the problem is they promised a "realistic and immersive" WW2 experience, then followed it up with a female version of Captain Hook from Peter Pan in the trailer, which, to be honest, I doubt is realistic in any sort of conflict. Really they shouldn't have gone with the "realistic and immersive" and they'd be fine, at least more so than they are currently as they would be able to exercise their artistic freedoms without destroying peoples expectations of what the game was going to be like.
"Basically, the problem is they promised a "realistic and immersive" WW2 experience, then followed it up with a female version of Captain Hook"
Please source me the quote "Realistic". As far as i know they never said this, but could be wrong. Immersive was mentioned in terms of a game play perspective, server side physics, dragging, support medics, team coordination emphasis, fortifications, bullet penetration, situational animations is all evidence towards that claim .
"at least more so than they are currently as they would be able to exercise their artistic freedoms without destroying peoples expectations of what the game was going to be like."
This is the problem. "destroying expectations" is ludicrous. Say i read a book, i finish the book, i'm upset that it didnt match MY thematic expectations. Should the publisher now be held accountable and apologise? Just because people expected the same gritty, rehashed WW2 shooter on the beaches of Normandy doesn't mean DICE are at fault for any of it, its not an argument at this point.
Nathan Mitchell
If you read a book on history that contained events and statements that literally never happened, then yes you would have a right to be upset.
Did you play BF1? A WW1 game with little trench warfare and most people were running around with fully auto smgs or semi-automatic rifles, WHICH IS HILARIOUS UNACCURATE.
Nathan Mitchell If you advertise your book as a shoe then yeah, they should be held accountable even if it was a really good read.
aelix56 They didn’t miss advertise so your analogy is baseless.
The trailer really resonated with me. My Grandfather fought in WWII and was a part of Operation Market Garden. He never talked about it with anyone, not even my Grandma. Apart from one night, when it was really late and we both had had a bit to drink. We were talking about scars and injuries we had received throughout our life.
We were tipsy and in high spirits but he then pulled back his sleeve to show me a 4" scar just above his elbow and the mood changed as his smile dropped. He told me he and his best friend were hold up in the first floor of a house in a small French town they had recently liberated from the Germans. They were woken in the middle of the night by explosions and gunfire as the Germans had launched a midnight counter-attack to retake the town.
My Grandfather fed the Bren gun ammunition as his friend frantically fired out of the bedroom window across the field below as German infantry ran towards. Suddenly, a Panzer round hit the house and both were flown backwards by the impact. My Grandfather didn't take much of the impact unlike his friend. My Grandfather told me how he held and comforted his friend as he lay dying on the ground, guts pouring out of his stomach. His friend, Natoshi Sakamoto, was in his late 60s and was - at that time - the reigning Dance Dance Revolution world champion. His last words were "Beat my world record, beat my world recort". My Grandfather proceeded to take Natoshi's lucky Official Dance Dance Revolution mat out of his satchel and wore it around his shoulders like a cape. Then Lizzie, the British general, burst through the bedroom door on her segway and screamed to retreatw whilst doing multiple 360 turns. It was then that an Imperial Walker tore through the house as it blasted Haddaway through the loudspeakers.
I never found out what happened next as my Grandfather burst into tears. I comforted him and we had another drink. We never spoke of that night since.
the battlefield 5 reveal stream talked so much about historical accuracy sooooo
They also tweeted it that BF V is historical accurate and that was their aim
No they didn't, it was always about immersion. Which has nothing to do with historical accuracy. Why even care? Let them add their own spin to this setting. You can find normal WW2 games everywhere.
Yes it does, anyone who has reasearched anything about ww2 and makes an attempt to be immersed, will be quickly taken out by seeing a 80% of what was in the trailer, apart from the female british commando, muzzle brake on an mg42? British sas wearing pathfinder face paint? Katana weilding bf 109 pilot?
Being immersed in world war 2 requires the setting and historical accuracy to be on par.
If they said that they want historical accuracy than it IS stupid. If not then it's okay. Doesn't really bother me and I dont really play shooters so... yeah
As long as that trailer was for the multiplayer and the campaign is more realistic than I don't care
I said this on the Kingdom Come video too but you feel like realism in game setting and realism in game mechanics are the same thing. Game mechanics do not represent much of the atmosphere. Obviously hopping from a tank to a boat to a turret is not the same as playing on an alternate universe ww2 in the discussion of realism or atmosphere.
It's interesting how star wars battlefront stays visually accurate to the films. But they altered the cannon to make the game more fun by having battles between jedis that never occurred.
They managed to maintain visual accuracy for a fictional world but they somehow can't do that with a real life event.
They could have made the game visually accurate to ww2 and had scenarios that never existed to make the game more fun.
John Hunter what do you mean by “visually accurate”? It’s a modern video game my guy.
How is it not visually accurate? There was women and face paint and prosthetics and all that shit from the trailer- yes usually not all in the same place at the same time... Just like the fucking star wars games they put them all together for funzies.. None of your shitposts hold onto your own fucked up, nonsensical internal logic. Are you fucking high?
They have to go heavy with the customisations because they getting rid of the season pass also to start charging for lame things like beards and facial scars you're going to wind up and just as much shit as a basketball game that tried it
Jaden Oldfield
The irony is that the only mind-bogglingly confusing post in this thread is yours. I'm having trouble even understanding what the fuck you're saying. Are you implying that women, face paint, and prosthetics are visually accurate?
Yes.. you think women dont look like that? Its all accurate individually dont make me repeat myself
Battlefield 5? More like: "The future is bleak and death is the vast unknown"
Women in video games is fine, pretty sure Medal of Honour did it years ago, it's not women necessarily it's the agenda of the developers. Them talking about 'being on the right side of history' is fucking weird. But the blatant disrespect to history in favour of politics and appealing to people who don't even play games is worrying, Assassin's Creed Origins in its historically accurate mode changed historical artefacts to be more inclusive. I don't think Battlefield will go that far, their fanbase is still 90% men.
Im not buying BFV since im not a big fan of the series, but i find it hilarious that a WWII game has a woman with a metal arm on the cover lmao
I agree I feel that it really shouldn’t be a big deal but it’s the fact that if we don’t do it assholes who are pc will cry cause they done it with the battlefield one and the other side their doing it now but those people are the ones saying I’m tired of herring the bull shit please stop being pc it’s a dam if you do dam if u don’t thing
disrespect to history? u playing a simulated bloodsport of the war that killed millions. i can see the respect u offer to ur ancestors.
Could you provide a source on BF being 90% men, please?
It's a guess and considering it's a violent video game about war I can't imagine very many women play it, you're kind of ignoring the main point of what I'm saying but I'll delete it if it bothers you ;)
And Assassin's Creed Origins was a disrespect to history, never said Battlefield V was. But I can see why people are up in arms to prevent that kind of thing that happened in Origins happening in other games, like Battlefield V. And I'm not buying Battlefield V so I'm not "playing a simulated bloodsport of the war that killed millions" actually. Games can be respectful and still present war. The original Medal of Honor games did it incredibly well I think, each mission started with footage of the time and described in detail the event, unless I'm thinking of another WW2 game. It taught people who may not understand what they're playing the feat of human endurance that came about in response to the threat during World War 2. I have a feeling Battlefield V won't do anything like this but I'm reserving full judgement until then.
Jon Smith listens to black metal. He is my new favourite Funhaus member.
this ^
A sexy racist? Go on...
GIVE ME A LINK TO THAT CAT IN UR PROPIC!! PLLREEEAAASSSS
Is that a burning cross in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?
Aiden Daniel found it on reddit look there
So i should go to reddit and look for cat pics until i find the same exact cat? MÀTE
If you guys want realism play Rising Storm/Red Orchestra. It's seriously the best dying simulator I've ever played.
As for people of color, both the British and French had hundreds of thousands of colonial troops from all over the place fight for them. As for women, the Soviets, Yugoslavs, and partisans in many countries had women fight for them. I really don't care either way. Its a game, and I never expected it to realistically mimic history.
"people of color"
that term is more racist than anything a person is trying to avoid
"Style guides from the American Heritage Guide to Contemporary Usage and Style, the Stanford Graduate School of Business, and Mount Holyoke College all recommend the term "person of color" over other alternatives. Unlike "colored", which refers only to blacks and is often considered offensive, "person of color" and its variants refer inclusively to all non-European peoples-often with the notion that there is political solidarity among them-and "are virtually always considered terms of pride and respect.
In other words, go pound sand.
I will say though, I don't care about historical accuracy in multiplayer, but if they make out in the singleplayer that female soldiers were in the Allied forces I will not be amused. This is often called whitewashing history.
Women fought in World War 2 as part of Partisan, Resistance forces or in the Russian army. There are stories of women doing some amazing stuff in World War 2. To just wipe all that away and pretend like women were just standard on European battlefields I would find really fucked up.
In Call of Duty: Finest Hour, back when the series would switch between perspectives of soldiers in different theatres of war, one of the characters you played as was a female sniper in the Red Army. This is the perfect way to do this. Let us see fighting women of the French resistance fighting guerrilla warfare against Italian and German soldiers.
Give me a BF1 style intro with the 1077th Anti-Aircraft Regiment in the battle of Stalingrad. A regiment made up of young female volunteers in their late teens who, when assaulted by a German armoured division simply tilted their AA guns to ground level and fired at the tanks instead of retreating. They fought until the very last "man" and by the time they were finally wiped out they'd destroyed destroyed 85 tanks, 15 transport vehicles and 14 aircraft, along with the 3 battalions of infantry that they dispersed.
Don't just invent a world where female soldiers were normal, that is painting a fine coat of bullshit over the past and is most detrimental to the feats women DID achieve during the war.
honestly battlefield multiplayer has also been batshit silly ever since Bad Company and 1943. The multiplayer trailer they released just seems like par for the course to me.
James Ortiz Thanks, it needed to be said.
The single player for Bad Company was a squad going AWOL and trying to steal some dictator's gold...I think women in BF is far more accurate than that scenario.
EDIT- Oh! Just to add, the ending of Bad Company 2 is you skydiving out of a cargo plane carrying a doomsday EMP weapon and killing the bad guy on the way down, then landing safely with his parachute. How was the immersion preserved then?
Tom Hanson because both bad companies were not made after any real events like world war. They said bf5 game is historicaly accurate/authentic, then they should stick to that if they are already promoting it in that way.
Wait, so WW3 hasn't happened? Oh, if only I didn't learn my current events and geopolitical history from a video game...
Anybody that thinks that they are learning the full history of WWII from a video game doesn't really care about the history of WWII. The only safe way of learning about World War II is reading about it, every other medium bends the truth.
Also I don't think they added women just to add women, based on their statements it sounds like they just want to give the women that play the game the ability to customize a character that represents them.
Inspector Gadget Battlefield V DLC
Aye! Lame joke.
toolizawesome Lame game
The funny thing is the game missions actually showed no crazy prosthetics or female soldiers aside from resistance fighters, it was actually pretty tame and accurate.
Got to love the straw Man arguments at the beginning.
PC dumbasses
What about false advertising?
Dice proclaims realistic WWII shooter than sells fun game with loose accuracy.
VaatiVidya has awesome dark souls lore videos. Based off of item descriptions and in game clues.
Something that Funhaus could do would be to have debates, where each person is given a stance on a subject and a set amount of time to prepare their argument.
I'll be honest, up until this podcast I thought Cyberpunk 2077 and Detroit Become Human were the same game
Mimiaga question, did you see the gameplay videos or nah?
Battlefield 1 was no where close to being historically accurate, so this game is just following that trend. Also, plenty of women served in WW2 on the European front.
The political podcasts are the worst. Especially when they have no clue what they're talking about for most of it. No research clearly. Battlefield Vietnam had every major battle from the conflict. In the US women were first allowed to take infantry jobs in 2016. Other countries (Russia) utilized women as fighters in WWII. Though to be fair, it really doesn't matter to have women in the game since, it's a fucking game. Is the entertainment industry going SJW? Yes. Look at every movie and TV show of the last 5 years. Lead roles have shifted. Supporting roles have shifted.. Both to push an agenda. Good, bad, who cares but it is happening. The panelists just need to be a lot less biased, more educated, and should stay away from the political subjects.
Randizzle Swizzle sure.....
I wouldn't call Baywatch (2016) SJW.... Or Fury, or The Emoji Movie. Definitely not Hut Tub Time Machine 2, or God's Not Dead numbers 1-3.
Yes, perceptions in the film industry change over time. Just like all other perceptions change.
In the early 1800s, female characters were played by men because women weren't allowed to act.
In the 1100s, it was widely believed that the earth was flat.
Isn't it funny how the past keeps rearing its ugly head?
I like how the podcast just turns to reminiscing good times about half way through
The issue is that they aren't presenting the history as it was. Women played a negligible combat role in the second world war. Its fine to have it as an option, but don't claim that you are presenting history in a realistic way and that you are on the "right side of history" when you put a disabled woman as the forefront of the marketing. If this was a new IP or a blatant alt-history it would be cool, but considering what they have said this game is supposed to be it isn't reasonable.
The Brits didn't have female or disabled soldiers on the front line, but the Soviets, Germans, Chinese, and French definitely did.
James, the French, Chinese Nationalists, and Germans did not field women as part of their regular armies as combat troops. A few Women did see combat as part of resistance movements and partisan movements in these countries. The Soviets and Chinese Communists did use women as combat troops when it was necessary, but they were largely kept from frontline service when possible.
Trevor, I believe it was a dev tweet before the trailer dropped.
You 'believe'?
So you are talking out of your ass like 90% of the community uh?
Jonathan, I just spent 5 minutes trying to find the tweet. I remember seeing it and being hyped for a WWII battlefield game, and the trailer was such a mindfuck. I would put the Female British Soldier at the bottom of my list of complaints, much rather complain about a Churchill III going mach 7 through a house
I'm loving these 2 hour podcasts, keep it up
The way I see it is that I appreciate the realism of a game, and the historical accuracy of it, but won’t cry if every little thing isn’t 100% correct. Like with Assassins Creed, whenever you start the game it says “based off of historical events.” And I don’t see too many people complaining that a wall crawling man who jumps into hay bails from 20 story buildings, wasn’t recorded into Leonardo da Vinci’s friends list
Slim Junkin I remember seeing a screenshot of assassin's creed origins where they altered a historical artifact to have girls so it was more inclusive. They even stated that they did that in the description text.
John Hunter I never played past Black Flag, and I was just going off of memory. Thank you for helping.
As you said, AC always starts with the disclaimer. I believe BF never has done this
Slim Junkin Lets replace the French with alien robots, then.
AspectROish check yourself man. No need to sperg
A lot of Battlefield fans, for some reason, believe it’s the “realistic” FPS. Yet in reality it’s never really been much more realistic then CoD. As for the race and gender stuff, I get the feeling that this whole historical accuracy argument, is a smoke screen for anger about what some people perceive as a “liberal agenda” being forced on them.
Didn't the Dice dudes say during that Q n A before the trailer was released that they were aiming to create an accurate depiction of WW2?
The words they used to describe the game were authentic and also "The most immersive Battlefield experience yet"
@Frankie Arnold "Wow this World War 2 game with lazer-eyed flying sharks is so immersive"
Frankie Arnold they also said authentic WW2 experience and imo that trailer doesn't really reflect this the trailer was so bizarre.
I believe that they said that it was immersive but "we are not historians", and that the game wasn't completely accurate. Also I feel that immersion has different interpretations, for me, immersion is feeling like i am on the field that the game is giving me, not the field in 1944 during Market Garden (which i'm pretty sure is where the trailer was), even when I play more hardcore realistic games like post scriptum, or squad, or the rising storm i never really get the sense that I am in WW2 or a modern day combat situation, but I am in the moment that they have given me, so for me this 90 second trailer does look to me, very immersive. Also no game will ever capture what these events were like, they can come close but they never will, so to hold a game by its realism in a series that has never been historically accurate is in my mind unfortunate.
We're talking about a war where a guy got 50+ confirmed kills with a longbow, guys painted themselves blue, rode horses and killed Nazis with swords, and French revolutionaries scaled buildings to infiltrate Nazi headquarters and murder them. A female amputee with a cricket bat is not that far-fetched
4 white men talking about women representation on art, the irony
(before anyone talks shit, it's just a joke, I know their opinion on this kind of stuff)
also straight(?)
How can they talk: 4 white cisgender heterosexual men
It is like the opposite of what SJWs are doing (not including white men at all). Hahaha...
i donno internet user, sjws camplain when nobody was bothered about it. i just kinda feel sjws are kinda seeking attention, with them wanting to be called zer sle slur slam simp zarg zim zlishl, insted of he him she her or they. it makes me go... wUt.
but fr tho, Adam is lways so awkward whenever "race" is brought up it does my head in.
Adam mentioned that we have never fought with China yet, except we did fight them during the Korean War. Granted that was 60+ years ago so a lot has changed.
I went through youtube, bf forums and twitter and found about 21 people who wanted women not to be in BF5. This was not the main complaint, it wasn't even close to the main complaint. No one gave a shit. BF1 had women in it and no one gave a shit.
Jonabob87 the comments on the reveal trailer were almost all complaining about a woman being in the game
The reason why no one complained about women in BF1 is because they were put in realistically. There were 2 women in BF1. The first was as a member of the rebels, and the second was purely as snipers in the russian army in the russian expansion. BTW I do not care about whether women are in battlefield or not.
To a point. BF1 wasn't nearly as egregious as BFV, but honestly I was still let down by the level of accuracy.
@Jonabob87
Get your eyes and brain checked.
Deadass people blew this way out of proportion. No one gives a fuck about women being in battlefield. No on gives a fuck if females are in every video game, that's not the point people were upset about. People are upset about how out of place all the shit in that trailer was. All they fucking said was here is WW2 game, and the first character we see is a half robotic women with a giant piece of wood with nails in it. SOMETHING NONE OF US EVER LEARNED ABOUT IN HISTORY CLASS. If all they said was were going to make a WWII style game with our own twist on it, then people would have went, okay that makes sense. Instead we get guys sliding around with machine guns, badass women with swords, and a bunch of other crap in a game thats supposed to be about WW2?
The amount of articles I've seen about guys hating women in battlefield is the biggest lie. I have not heard or seen anyone state women shouldn't be in video games. This is just click bait garbage.
I like how they neglect the campaigning slogan "is it real or is it battlefield". Everyone forgets that this is what battle has always been known for. They use to make game trailers showing realism. But the trailer for bf5 is just to cartoony and this is why people feel like this is such a weird approach for a battlefield game.
I think the main point to the many people complaining is that we have enough games that are "goofy", but only battlefield is battlefield. It is just the right amount of realism and arcade, and very few other game series are like this. If I want 100% realism I would play ARMA or Squad or something like that. For full arcade I would go for COD and such. Battlefield managed to hit the sweetspot right in between, but it is tipping dangerously over to the "Glowing-person-in-wheelchair-flying-across-the-sky-while-wielding-a-lightsaber"-side, and this is scaring people (me too).
Also I dont like that people force "equality" down my throat with every media I consume. It is nice to be mentioned, I get it, but I dont complain to EA that the newest FIFA or MADDEN doesnt contain fat people, just because I am.
I can't wait to read all the level-headed comments from people that actually watched the video!
Lawrence. DudeSoup is my favorite thing that Funhaus makes every week. I always admire how earnestly you attempt to represent multiple views around your subjects. I love how you guys can add industry insight into popular topics to help clarify and explain what is happening to plebs like me. And I love Hard Nettin' because it is super creative and I enjoy sharing all of the treasures with my friends. I know I'm only one opinion, but this is a great podcast!
The opinions in this podcast are the Battlefield Bad Company 2 of opinions. Well thought out and well executed.
The tint changed at 11:30 from a redish hue to a greenish one. Made me think it'd actually be mad cool if you did that for each topic.
Butterfield soy boy V: The phantom pain
Weaponized Meme
You've got a problem with soy milk?
So you'd rather drink animal secretions instead?
TehMorbidAtheist ye
You like eating the reproductive organs, sperm, and eggs of plants? GAAAAAY
TW0T0NGUE ye
TehMorbidAtheist yes
I could care less what they do with Battlefield V as long as it's just fucking fun to play, that is ALL THAT SHOULD MATTER in games like this.
"women cant be in any video games ever" way to start off with a strawman... Jeeez
Daniels Gaming channel I really, really doubt if the podcast was women, they'd say "no men in video games." Now you're strawmanning.
Women shouldn’t really be in action games. Very very very few
You're the problem.
There isn't a problem with women in video games. It's just that a game claiming to be historically accurate has to have the social norms of that era.
Well reality sucks. But that's what happen in the comment section of the trailers. Mainly because they know they could get away with it on the internet.
Strapping C4 to ATV’s and jumping out and detonating them in Bad Company is literally what Battlefield is all about. It sucked that you couldn’t strap dynamite to horses in Battlefield 1.
"People of Colour" counter: 76
You can just say black, or coloured people. I give you permission. Painfully Californian.
Lawrence is 100% wrong about spawning on squad, it has been around since at least the first Bad Company.
I like getting the female french resistance lady from Dino D-Day eaten by the T-Rex. Maybe Battlefield V should add dinosaurs and cybernetic nazi soldiers to the gamw.
To Lawrence's point, he wasn't joking. Neuromancer did actually kinda invent cyberpunk and William Gibson was a visionary.
Way I see it... as a video game to me it doesn't matter to am extent. If a developer wants to put in woman and multiple races into a game... fine. And last year we had this same exact conversation about women in WWII with CoD... yes women did serve but only for specific countries and in specific roles. With being historically accurate, Battlefield as an entire franchise has not been that. If you want proof that you can see for yourself right now, go play Battlefield 1. If the War Stories are going to be based off actual events and the like, then yes, being as accurate as possible (with few liberties taken here and there) is what should be done. If it is a fictious campaign that is just set during WWII (see Saving Private Ryan) then you can take more liberties but cannot go off the deep end. When it comed to multiplayer, I could care less. Why? I just tore some poor soul asunder with an MG42, and in about 15 seconds he is going to disappear from the world in front of me, and be resurrected somewhere on the map.
None of these factors should truly change if you are having fun in a video game or not. If they do, your priorities are really out of order.
Side note: the BF3 gameplay you chose to display is everything that is wromg with BF games today: someone playing recon doing jack shit and not playing the objective.
ChipJones421 Exactly. Plus people dont know all the history anyways there was a whole lot more to criticize in that trailer going bye what they were wearing weapons tanks etc. And lots of people fail to realize that India had the largest volunteer army in history and the French resistance was led by the African colonies
I didnt see many people complaining about the race part as there was multiple people fighting world wide but women did not fight usually even though they were trained to. If women were around combatants it was usually because they were spies.
thehumbleone their plenty of women fighting for all the resistances though
> I could care less
your entire comment is invalidated by this one sentence
This guy gets it
I don't know if anyone remembers but this has been a recurring complaint in BF games since BF3. People went ballistic when DICE had the SHEER CHEEK to change the US medic from white to black at release. So many people cried it was pandering, political correctness etc etc. People will always find something to be upset about.
Have a podcast about Drake vs. Pusha T
StAticTurtLe RealBruceHours
They didn't even know who Travis Scott was. I doubt they know anything about Push. It blows my mind how little they know about pop culture. That being said, I want that podcast.
KING PUSH
Who?
Easy, joe budden podcast dude tf lol
Perfect timing for a Black Tux sponsorship, I have to go to a friend's wedding soon. Thanks Dude Soup!
Dont know what the political climate of 2142 was like, but the climate sure had changed.
But war...
War never changes.
Snapphat In 2143 the political climate is just cold......very very cold. Oh you were talking about politics sorry everyone is slowly dying as the last wars are waging.
One of the differences that should be pointed out is that historical inaccuracies for gameplay purposes should be separate from historical inaccuracies for tokenism and inclusion.
In regards to the "this is disrespectful to the people who experienced the horrors of WW2 combat" think about this. If a movie or a game was based around the hardships of slaves in America, but they made the cast half white in order to "be inclusive", it would be considered offensive to the black community for misrepresenting who really suffered through slavery primarily. Added masses of females (and other minorities to some extent) to WW2's front line is the exact same thing.
but there were minorities on the front lines??
Chosen Hunter7 Except there were minorities?
ProducerLu ??
Chosen Hunter7 except there were millions of African Americans alone?
Chosen Hunter7 but India in WW2 still to this day had the largest standing volunteer army and the French Resistance was led by Africans and women(of course plenty of white men as well)
In all fairness, women did participate in combat in WW2. As did people of color? Like, yeah on the American side women did more medical work and repairs and the likes, but women really did fight in WW2. Plus, it's a video game at the end of the day. It's kind of dumb to try to claim historical accuracy should be kept when you don't die in one hit, and you're all basically super soldiers. People just need to enjoy a game and chill.
37:00 hmmm we heard something completely different couple podcasts ago (kingdom come podcast, most disliked video so far just for that reason)
Too bad Adam wasn't around back then. Just saying.
Piro Man didn't he say that Battlefield and Kingdom Come were on separate levels and explain why??
cinimon toast Interesting. How so?
Medovukha LOL furries and communists. You’re joking, right?
How are furries and communists in any way related lol
Medovukha mfw most furries are right wing
If Adam wants to remodel houses in a FPS, he should play Rainbow Six Siege, the whole game on defense is about remodeling the map with the operators's gadgets.
Why are people getting angrier about a woman being in the trailer rather than a prosthetic hand, cricket bat with nails or anti-aircraft grenade?
I mean, this isn't exactly fucking Dunkirk, it's a goofy multiplayer trailer for a game series that left realism behind a long time ago. Why are people suddenly demanding historical accuracy?
Alex691 and a British soldier with a katana
Actually people are pissed about the BRITISH woman in the trailer, not just the woman, if they had made her Russian or French it would have been absolutely 100% fine.
And people ARE pissed about the fucking plastic arm, the cricket bat, the AA Grenade, the fucking bare-chested bald fuck with face paint, the goddamn katana wielding brit, and the token black guy in an otherwise all white unit
All this flies in the face of historical accuracy, but more importantly immersion. If we want idiotic fun, most people go to COD, because it is just idiotic fun. But people want to experience a WW2 experience as close as possible to what WW2 was actually like, and everything we saw in the trailer flies in the face of that. It's got nothing to do with sexism, or racism whatsoever.
people have always been demanding historical accuracy, like how you have black germans in bf 1, and every other gun is automatic
People are angry about the prosthetic arm.
If you look at the channels/profiles of the people that are angry at the game (not all but most) they usually post pro alt-right/wehrboo and incels stuff, i looked at the profiles/channels when Cod ww2 came out an there were alot of pro nazi people screaming at the game, and they probably use the historical accuracy as an excuse to complain.
All the bf3 dlc's
Bf3: Close quarters was Ziba Tower, Donya Fortress( amazing map), and Operations 315.
Bf3: Armored kill was maps emphazing massive tank combat ( should've been in bf1
Bf3: Back to Karkand is something everyone knows and it has wake island a map from 1942
Bf3: aftermath was took place in the literal aftermath of an earthquake and soldiers can only use their sidearms with almost no bullets and find primary weapons laying about for players to use. One of the maps was Epicenter.
Bf3: End game introduced capture the flag and motocross maps
Yeet
I wonder... if they made the game modern and added a woman in the trailer, do you think there wouldve been the same backlash?
Probably but instead of saying they dont like her because of historical accuracy, they would blame SJWs instead
Like BF4 with the Asian lady soldier that nobody got mad at??
zimbabweking I feel that was a different time. And nobody played the campaign enough to care.
zimbabweking it's crazy but a lot has changed since then lol.
Yeah. I wouldn't be surprised.
The vast majority of people upset over Battlefield V are concerned with its historical inaccuracy. Trolls are the only ones saying "women shouldn't be in video games." But according to the National WWII Museum website:
"Women in uniform took office and clerical jobs in the armed forces in order to free men to fight. They also drove trucks, repaired airplanes, worked as laboratory technicians, rigged parachutes, served as radio operators, analyzed photographs, flew military aircraft across the country, test-flew newly repaired planes, and even trained anti-aircraft artillery gunners by acting as flying targets. Some women served near the front lines in the Army Nurse Corps, where 16 were killed as a result of direct enemy fire."
Even General Eisenhower felt that we could not win the war without the aid of the women in uniform. However, the Battlefield V trailer puts a whole new spin on the role of women in the war. It feels a lot more like a ham-fisted feminist move than a cool video game fictional twist. That's what's got people upset. Don't put politics in video games.
Imagine if we made a zulu game and replaced everyone with white people. It doesn't have to be a simulator, but at least respect the historical context in which this game takes place. If you want to alter history, Fine, as long as you state that it is an alternate history.
They showed one woman in the trailer...and your acting like every soldier in the game was replaced by women. This is what I call over exaggeration. Even battlefield one wasn't faithful to World War history but no one cared until battlefield 5 showed one woman in a trailer.
If you play a game you should go into it not expecting any historical accuracy. They're inspired by historical events but are not trying to replicate those events to a T. They're attempting to make a fun game that will sell to a large audience. These games don't have any obligation to be "historically accurate" and we shouldn't be taking it so seriously.
GhoulEnix umm, it wasn't just a woman, it was some celtic one-armed sniper woman with a cricket bat, a dude wearing a wife beater, and a black US soldier carrying a katana. This shit is straight outta battlefield heroes
"Imagine a game where the zulus are white" yep, done annnd not outraged in the least.
"Respect the historical context in which this game takes place"
*gif of two guys with machine gun and flamer on horse in BF1*
Close quarters is probably one of the best battlefield dlc, all the maps are so fun
It just comes off as virtue signalling to me.
because that's what it is. "diversity" for the sake of diversity is patronizing and insulting to the people who consume the media, and ACTUALLY participated in the represented events
this 100% and the media wonders why more and more gamers/geeks are becoming right wing. everything they love from warhammer 40k to magic to video games is being changed for the sake of 0.1% of the demographic
"There's women in my nerd hobby, better be an alt-righter".
That's called a personal failing where I come from.
go outside you losers
>alt right is the same as right wing
okay smooth brain
I love the slowness of BF. My favorite times playing I played as a sniper and sat on top of a building or hill for 10 minutes just waiting for that possibly 1 kill. I'd shot, i'd miss, i'd shoot, i'd get a kill and I'd be like "hell yea" and then go back to sitting for 10 minutes
Great podcast guys love it as always.
comments about being glad James isn't in it seriously bugs me tho. Is it that hard to listen to somebody's opinion that you don't agree with?
#MoreJames
For some people, it is :(
It just has to do with how insufferably overbearing and loud someone is with their opinion
DO you go listening to AlexJones because he has a "different opinion" ? Do you think it's hard to listen to him? Well it's same with James.
I love how putting Jon in a video makes Lawrence look like a normal person.
Adam is approaching levels of wokeness that shouldn't be possible.
Skipping straight to Cyberpunk and Hard Netting this week. The real news segments of this podcast.
I have to ask, what point is there discussing how accurate a game's settings are? It wont change anything, it's just a game. Just seems like people want to find stuff to be angry about instead of having fun. I am not talking about the people in this video, I mean the ones who are actually offended by a video game.
What's the point in the games setting being accurate? Well, if it's not important to represent the setting properly, why use that as a setting to begin with?
Who cares? It's a video game. Why take a video game serious? Why do people want to try to make a video game something real and then be angry about it? None of it makes sense. Am I the only one in the world who plays a game because I just want to? Why make it a thing that influences your real life actions by making you overly sensitive to anything and then bitch about it online?
Most people play games because they want to. And as it turns out, a lot of people don't want this and don't plan on buying it.
Ash games are based off of real settings to begin with to:
1. Make it easier to actually produce a game.
2. Give it a hook.
I want you to come back to me with 8 made up countries, each with histories thousands of years old. If you can finish that, come back to me with 500 different made up weapons, completely different from anything made before in history. Maybe now you can understand why it's a lot easier to copy the past loosely instead of spending 10 years making up entirely new things
Allied Kingdom, Francois Republic, Unified States. You don't need to create your own history, but if you want to change existing history, making up new names for them so it's clear that it's not our actual history, is a good start.
I watched a trailer for a multiplayer game and thought "oh, so there's customization."
Ohhh boyy
Oh wait James ain’t here this might be good, love the guy for comedy but not this type of shit
It actually turned out to be a decent discussion
King KLaymore Is it because he’s a bit more PC? Still really like him tho
Funniest guy I know on TH-cam. But he’s an LA PC boy, everyone has downsides though
TehMorbidAtheist ooo you’re hard 😂 do you even know what beta means you bellend?
I'd imagine someone who thinks having a different opinion to them is a "downside" would be a hell of a beta
What I took from this was that Bruce and Adam want to play more Battlefield 1 which I think was one of their funniest series. Can we please see more of that? Or just stream it so we can play with you?
what i dont like is that as a white male i have to feel bad about everything all past white males have done, but at the same time sjw's want to give all white male hardships and accomplishments to women and people of colour.
Imagine a movie about american slavery with white women and men as slaves, just for inclusion. it would certainly take away from the hardships of the african americans infact it would cause outrage...i love black culture i love asian culture i think women are awesome but why is it that my white western strong powerful artistic beautiful culture is demonized so much...surely thats racism...
Edit: i dont give a fuck if women or black people are in a video game
Im talking sjw culture as a whole
I'm surprised that more people haven't made this connection. WW2 was the most deadly war in history, and it was fought by men around the world. You could have battles in Burma and North Africa with people of colour, and nobody would care because those battles really happened and those people pride themselves on their soldiers' actions during the war. When it comes to European/American men, however, that pride is not allowed. D-Day MUST be portrayed with women and black people running around for the sake of inclusion, regardless of the immense sacrifice of real human beings.
the fact that you fell oppressed by this just show how privileged you are
dude black people living in LA and most of america have better lives than majority of white people living in Australia. fuck up about privilege its not race based its monetary based.
and i would know because im aborginal australia and every single white person ive met has been worse off then me
Will somebody think of the white people that have dominated media for centuries! Those poor victims of not being able to dominate it anymore!
>white people
>media
umm
hate to break this to you but jews dont like being called white, like they really really hate it
The people complaining about the girl in the trailer weren't going "Women shouldn't be in videogames ever", Lawrence. Don't immediately demonize people or assume they are freakin neonazis because you don't agree with what they say. You do this thing of ridiculing what you don't agree with and as the person that introduces the talking point you should try to be more impartial while you do it. Once the point is on the table, then you can say whatever you want, but don't open up the conversation trashing the opinion like that. They where complaining about women being included in what they *assumed* would be a factually accurate ww2 shooter. Of course, there were some bigots here and there, becasue there always is, it's the Interntet. That being said, devs have said that women soldiers are in the game for people that want to play as one, it's not being forced upon the player so you got people wining about women they may not even see. Besides, the devs at no point said they were making a true to reality ww2 game so all of this it's ridiculous, because you got people complaining not about the game that they are presented with, but about the game that they wanted. DICE getting shit for making the game that they wanted is just dumb.
Again?
Welcome to the real world.
They should just make a "Classical Era Mode" Which would basically be Hardcore Mode with all customizations and skins that would be considered inaccurate for the time/nation in-game disabled. Boom, everyone is happy.
This was a good discussion. I enjoyed it a lot. Thank god, James and Elyse weren’t in this. I think if they were here this wouldn’t be as good because they are too set in their ways.
gary alicao care to explain? I see many comments hating on James for this kind of topic and I still don't get it lol
VideoAmigos It’s because of their PC ways and the majority of their older audiences aren’t SJW or PC like. I mean I usually watched there content for their offensive humor. But knowing they live in LA, a cesspool of disgust in my opinion. Of course these people would be very liberal in a sense. So that’s probably the reason.
Nick Corcino damn, I've been watching James since the IG days and I didn't know this about him.
VideoAmigos Me too man, I’m one of the OGs when they started as well. But since lately I can tell they are pretty PC despite their offensive humor in certain videos. James showed that in one of the podcasts. I’m fine with it, but find it cringe and all round stupid to think his audience is all liberal like minded people. If anything, half us are conservative. Like myself.
If there's anyone stuck in their ways it's the people who can't comprehend a viewpoint that differs from their's, let alone a position that to a certain extent opposes their's.
Solid point from John. Fact is they're already made plenty of authentic battlefield games. It's the developer's choice to go "hey let's try getting wacky with it." Whether it's because they want to mix it up or because they want to keep up with the trends or whether it's a mix of both, they're creative/directive choice. All we have to do is ask ourselves whether we want to buy it and we can't really do that until we've actually seen it.
I hope what Laurence said about what Jack said is the case. 'Cause my issue with the trailer was it's pacing and that version of Battlefield Jack's talking about sounds exactly up my alley.
you can write this off as nothing if you so desire, i dont play BF and im just on the outside looking in on this particular subject for the upteenth time:
christ almighty. you cant keep throwing in a non-white/male/straight/super he-man whatever character in a project, not just games, but general projects, and then say "if you hate it youre x-cist or y-phobic." games have to also be *good and fun* which _CAN_ be done with inclusion but inclusion needs to not be the main focus. not an omitted focus, but not the main. the creators are forgetting the fact that theyre supposed to be making a project, then it looks shit, and they blame its failure on the audience.
and lawrence im sorry to say this, i know you do this both for comedic and general feel of responses to get a reasonable grasp of whats being said on the negative side, but its starting to feel like you cherrypick the actual degenerates that creep around on platforms as opposed to those who actually put some thought into their distaste. because as much as i hear that it happens, i rarely have ever seen someone unironically trash something simply because there was a colored person or woman present. when you do this it gives off an implication that this is one of the main complaints and i swear such points have been contested too many times to be considered in a serious debate.
i also gotta wonder, if in all these forced inclusion situations we keep finding ourselves in, are the directors/producers whoever being TOLD to be inclusive, or are they being TOLD to make something good and then saying "lets change AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALL of the defining things. people LOVE change"? and then stomping and shouting at those who vocally disliked it instead of considering what could have been done different? i dunno
I see your point, but I would not really say that they forced inclusion here. It would be forced if for example a role only could be played as a woman or a non-white. What they basically are trying to say is "Look at all the awesome things that can happen in BF: V, oh and you can also customize your character to look like a woman/non-white/whatever. It's your choice". Then again it's way too early to even be judging it. All we have is a teaser that's appearing like a skit or just something wild and weird. Until gameplay, a true trailer and more mechanics have been made public, we don't and won't know how this game is going to be.
This was a great Dude Soup. Lawrence's breakdown of the IP theft in hardnetting made me spit up my coffee in laughter.
I'm disgusted by what Adam said in this ep.
The nerve of him trying to pander to a certain audience.
The fact that adam thinks he can simply 'be a history buff' since he went to italy because of assasins creed is abhorent and i cant watch anymore of your videos since you through away all your morals to shill out to other history buffs...
smh.
from - dissapointed
What did Tyler Durden say? "We have no great war, we have no great depression" Little did he know commenting on videogames would be our "great war"
I am 100% on board with the women/minority representation in games, its awesome.
As far as the goofiness goes I can actually understand that point because although previous games have had their silly moments its been only because that is what an online community given freedom does best, the game itself still has the grittier more authentic feel. In battlefield 5 that does not seem to be the case; the game itself has the cartoon-y factor baked in and if anything I feel like that is going to make the game less enjoyable because the act of taking a serious war game and running around with only defibrillators is awesome. Still cant wait to play it though.
Also I'm worried about the no radius of healing/ammo pickup being someone who would often play medic/support I doubt most players will be paying attention enough to grab the health pack that you're throwing at them. hope its not the case
battlefield two or whatever
This must have been one of the funniest Dude Soups in a while. Good content
Watch Rags video on BF5 if you really care.
Yikes
Or you could form your own opinions with out the help of TH-cam personalities.
i watched it, disagreed with the video
fhgdngdfh
Or you could get several perspectives and form your opinion.
TheGrace020 Wow another anti sjw with an animal avatar who acts like sjws are destroying society and always portrays the wrost examples of pepole advocating for social justice. This dude is a fucking hack who never punches right.
Bruce basically summed up any thoughts I had on it at 36:00. If a game sets out to be as historically accurate as possible, that's great, more power to it and it shouldn't be bashed for the lack of inclusion. However, if a game doesn't set out for that then I don't feel like it has to be held to the same standard as a game, or any other piece of media for that matter, that has strives for accuracy. If a WW2 game came out that said from the start it strived to be as historically accurate as possible, then this would be an applicable complaint. It's a Battlefield game though, they always take inspiration from history, but they don't represent it accurately. Accuracy has just never been at the top of the franchise's agenda.
Or you mean a bunch of nerds complaining about a girl having a robotic arm and getting pissed off that a video game doesn't have historical accuracy
Seasonal Loner well yes, if you say so. All previous bfs were if not historically accurate, but at least authentic. It wasn’t problematic to determine what historical era game takes place in. Judging by trailer, bf5 is taking place in some alternative reality with augmented soldiers and steampunky stylistics. I don’t have problem with that, but why won’t they advertise their product according to what it really is?
a game that the devs were saying would at least try and then pulled shit not even in the same vicinity of reality.
I felt like this Dude Soup was more well rounded than the Kingdom Come Deliverance one. Lawrence did a good job joking about how touchy people get, and I feel like he tried to get most people's perspectives on the subject.
For me, the trailer came off as though they were trying to leech off the Overwatch and Fortnite playerbases (I'm sure there's overlap). I really liked the house clearing scene, but seeing a katana on someone's back just completely pulled me out. Plus, that prosthetic looked like it was moving on its own. It's one thing if they had Russian women, but Tracer with a cricket bat just seemed silly. I feel like I'm in BAD COMPANY, because I see no problem with women in games but prefer the aesthetics to be authentic to WW2.
Ahhh, really wished you guys didn't do this topic......... I haven't watched the video but I'm worried for you guys :(
Ahhh, they talked about a topic I'm not prepared at all to defend...
Ahhh, I just came...
Everyone acting like Battelfield is a war simulator, but in reallity it's an arcade FPS.
Strawman Lawrence always ruins good discussion. When is he going to stop being such a lefty
PC dumbasses
If you seen his opinions on Twitter you’d have spot his goal here from a mile.
Of course a Trump supporter spells the word literally "littelry"
toast this Get a load of this Aspie.
toast this littelry?
If your demanding authenticity in a WW2 multiplayer game, than only one side is allowed to win any given map every time it's played. Fun.