Dana 44s vs. Chevy 10-Bolt Front Axles: Which Is Better? - Dirt Every Day Extra
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ต.ค. 2017
- Many ½- and ¾-ton GM 4x4s came with a solid front axle that could have been a Dana 44 or a GM Corporate 10-bolt. Are they the same thing? Or very different? Which is better? Do parts cross over between the two? On this episode of Dirt Every Day Extra, Fred Williams and Dave Chappelle ask Offroad Design’s Stephen Watson for some insight on these solid front axles and discuss which one you really want.
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I don't 4-wheel. I don't own a truck. I just watch for entertainment, but learning stuff like this is very important for all car-people and I enjoyed this video.
Why is it important
@@TheMainLead to know is not to know
If you are worried about your 10 bolt or 44d, Dana 60 is the answer
Exactly. Sperduty Dana 60's are so cheap and plentiful nowadays.
Money lol
Corporate 14FF bolt
I've got 2 for sale
@@whiterosemotors9026 you have 2 Chevy (passenger side pumpkin) Dana 60 for sale? Where are you located? How much$
Thank you guys for this! I've been trying to figure the difference between these two apart and there's so much Miss information out there! This really clears things up.
There was a dana 44 made for Jeep J-20 pickups that was possibly the best factory one ever. It had a standard Dana 44 diff housing, axle shafts, flat top knuckles, but it sported the twice-as-thick Dana 60 tubes and Dana 60 hub/bearing assemblies.
I love seeing guys give you real world junk yard how to find, identify and what's interchangeable. I have a 1991 V2500 suburban and a 75 k10, will have to look at the covers and see how they compare.
Thanks, I was quite curious about this. I have had numerous people tell me that my 2012 JK had the same 44 in it as old vehicles did, glad to know the truth now.
Gil Vietor Neither the JK 44 nor the JK 30 have anything in common with their predecessors. Almost everything prior to the JK is parts interchangeable across most makes, nothing interchanges with a JK.
I am swapping a 57' short bed on to a 78' GM. Now I know what axle I have. Very clear explanation. Glad to know my "10 bolt" is enough to fit my needs for a daily driver. Thanks
Really enjoy these technical discussions. Great companion to the axle talk, I mean High Sierra 4x4, podcast
Thank you. I was really bummed about having to put a 10 bolt in my willys. I don't feel so bad now.
Thank, great information! I have a 78 Chevy K10 and will be checking to see which one I have. I'm needing a hub cap (dust cover).
Awesome video thanks god finally somebody no BS straight to the point .
You can get a D44 with a high pinion, and there is way more after market support for it.
Excellent video. Informative
Great DEDX, gents. Thanks for the info
Super useful. Thanks!
Great extra. Gotta do one on rears now.
Is the zoom in feature broken on the video guys camera......It would be nice to be able to SEE all of these features on the different axles. Jeeze MT come on!
Zoom out a little. I’m seeing way too much detail.
How
Right over your head
yes they posted another with fred this means modified is coming soon again. best show ever. *modified.*
oddly enough i was just thinking of switching a blazer over to 1 tons then using the 1/2 tons on a samurai w/ 37s. sounds like a good fit.
The Cj5 my father and I got through trade had a 10 bolt with 44 outers, had no complaints. The only weird thing is the shafts would break in really weird patterns. Had one break it was like a cone
Yup my 1980 k10 has the factory dana44 and yes, it is a Dana 44 bc that’s what I wanted..... the c10bolt was a decent axle just didn’t look beefy enough lol.... although I have 33’s and factory broken leafs but it rides okay
Great info 👍
It is because of that interchangeability that bronco and f-150 guys with ttb front axles use older chevy 3/4 ton trucks to get all the conversion parts needed to swap the 5x5.5 lug pattern for the 8x6.5 pattern to match a rear axle.
Nice episode thanks for the info. I live in Houston and a have an 86 Chevy k20 that came from Colorado. I noticed y’all said Steven is a Chevy square body expert and makes parts. Is it possible to get his info?
Let the man talk
My 80 has a factory installed d44 and it took some stuff I tell ya. My 81 has a 10 bolt and it’s not that bad actually but I don’t rock rock crawl
So I want a ORD coilover conversion...would it even be worth going through the trouble using this axle?
Had a Dana 33 front w/ a spool in my 97 TJ and a Super 35 rear w/ a Detroit on 33s and absolutely abused it on the rocks for years and somehow never broke an axle. Miss that thing
Steve just Steve Dana 35s sure are a weird breed. I broke mine driving through a parking lot on 35s, not even accelerating, just rolling and crunch, carrier exploded. I did an 8.8 swap and I'm extremely satisfied.
BTW, no such thing as a Dana 33, it'd be a Dana 30. Before the jerks come in the comments, lol.
LOL yeah that was a mistype. Yeah the super 35 is kinda polishing a turd in many ways and my plan was to do an exploder 8.8 until I found the 35 with super 30 splines, Detroit and 4.56 gears for $300 on CL about 60 mi away. That made my mind up pretty quick and I never had any probs out of it. I say I "abused" it but I didn't. I did wheel the shit out it and followed my buddys around that had much more built rigs w/ 44s, 60s, 35"s and 37" with no problems and actually outwheeled some of them many times. Saw a lot of guys break their 44s by banging of the rev limiter while bouncing wheels like dumbasses. I must say there is not much better feeling then walking up a trail 1st try almost effortlessly in my $5K TJ on 33"s after watching a $40K built JK on 37"s back down after 45min of trying =) The best thing I ever did to that HEEP was the ultra tummy tuck. I had the same clearance or more on my lil 33s with a lower center of gravity.
Steve just Steve I know the feeling well. I'm always the oldest and cheapest rig anywhere I go, and usually the only stick. Gives a sense of accomplishment to scrape my way up an obstacle the 40k crawlers couldn't. I don't do a lot of it anymore though, as I'm terribly undergeared and rock crawling just isn't fun with this much stalling. A tad busy lately too.
AgamemnonTWC I did the 8.8 swap too and its awesome. I wanna put a super 88 kit and a grizzly locker in mine.
The real front end for performance is the Dana 44 Twin Traction Beam used on Ford F 150s and Bronco's from 1980-1996 in the Bronco and same or close F 150 trucks. With cut and turn modification for lift rather than dropping the center mounting spot down, plating and gusseting the beams. Then long chrome molly radius arms Heim joint mounted rather than bushings and add a horizontal mount to he top and bottom mount to the beams. Put in a locker a F 250 slip shaft and U joint on the passenger side and chrome molly axles and good U joints. Strong manual hub locks new bearings and seals and good time for ball joints mounting the spindle. With some tall real bi pass reservoir shocks (or coilover shocks) like Fox, Sway Away my favorite on mine King or similar not Rancho and its kind. You will have a great front set up after cycling clearing for clearance and limit strapping the droop and bump stops for compression. Fast through large whoops without spilling your drink and long travel 4x4 bullet proof front drive like this with rear stuff and shocks too...th-cam.com/video/OIYPKwUbzNE/w-d-xo.html In the bumps and 4x4 like this..th-cam.com/video/tGPiooXsEyQ/w-d-xo.html or comfortable road trips with your girl like this 1st run on Mojave Road song length at late sunset...th-cam.com/video/LtuWtuR2qIg/w-d-xo.html
So basically as long as you fabricate and modify a long paragraph worth of changes, the axle is awesome. Got it.
Early Dana 44's and the eight lug 44 HD had much thicker wall housings as well. 1/2" vs 3/8" if memory serves me correct..
Makes me feel better about keeping the 10 bolts in my '84 K5.
me too in my '79 k5
Any issues?
@@danielr.7870 None .. standard use... Not for rock climbing
This video just helped me find out I have a Dana 44 in it.
I'm building a K5 that I have all it is frame and axles.
WOW! Lots of information in a short video. I better read the book.
JD
Good video
but I think there are at least 3 different size 10 bolt axles.. there is an 8.5” or 8.6” ring gear, they are about twice as strong as the 7.5” or 8.2”. The small ones are not up to big power or big tires, but the larger gm10 bolt is up for big power and big tires and will handle it fine
Easy to convert a 28 spline 10-bolt to 30 spline with no neck if you can find aftermarket inner shafts. Also, some 10-bolts have thicker tubes. Have seen them anywhere from 0.25 to 0.313" wall thickness... all 3.0 inch tubes. Definitely a viable axle, though the D44 has all the advantages in product support.
Hi Steve- long time no see. I'm a piker compared to you!
I would like to see a 80 ford ifs to solid axel swap. I have a 82 f250 ifs. Leaves with the I beam it currently has a 1 ton rear end, and 1 and a half suspension.
Since everything from the knuckle out on the 10 bolt is interchangeable with the 44, does that mean (since the 44 is interchangeable with the 30, 27, and 25,) that hub components from the 30, 27, and 25 will interchange with the 10 bolt?
Might as well just had this audio only cant see anything from 30 feet away lol
Fred rules!! PA farm boy does good in the offroad world!!!!
I need something like this for rear jeep swaps and preferably pre JK.
Dana 44
Dana 60
Ford 9
Ford 8.8
Chrysler 8.25
Please and thank you Fred
Thinking of taking my 94 s10 2wd and sas it. If I keep the chevy rear end I've already bought and put a jeep front axle on it can I convert the jeep 5x5.5 lugs to chevy 5x4.75 pattern? Without adaptors.
Did you do it and how did you?
i always liked the dana 44's front cover better then the 10bolt. seems to be more thicker if youre going to use it on rocks.
but ive always just preferred 10bolts only for the reason of they are way more common on craigslist or junkyards if you ever need a cover or axle shafts.
ive also ran 10 bolts and 38s for about 8 years with no breakage in a 6000lb suburban. just easy on the throttle and it was mostly mud. now those axles have the good life under a s10 blazer and 33s.
Can you do some videos on Suzuki Sierra SJ long wheel base
I always thought the big difference was the inner C-clips on the 10 bolt. That is what keeps me away from a 10 bolt.
Thank you
You can so narrow them, you just have to pull out the old axle tubes and press in new ones. Yukon gear & axle and Randys ring & pinion supply heaps of parts for them. I'd go for a Chevy 10.5 14 bolt if I wanted something unbustable though.
There are no 14 bolt front axles. Unless you custom order/make one, but then its $$$$
So I have a 3/4 ton Dana 44 in my mud truck.8 lug Dana 44.
I'm in the process of building a Dana 44 High Pinion from a '77 F-150, Reid Racing steering Knuckles, RCV Axles, Slotted Cryo Rotors, ProComp extended stainless steel brake lines, Timken bearings, Dana-Spicer Full Spool (3.08 gears), Warn 30 spline hubs, Stage 8 spindle lock nuts, Blue Torch Fabworks .25" thick diff cover, with 15x8 steel wheels on 33x12.5x15" BFG ATK02's. Waiting for the next paycheck to buy some GM-Style 1-ton Steering with DOM tubing and some driveshafts. It's all going underneath a 1989 Ford E-142 (Shorty window van E-150) with a EFI 300ci straight 6. Fred and Dave: Are there any suggestions you guys would have after wheeling the Tradesman? Stephen: Thank you so much for the NP205 you guys built for me last year!
Thank you so juch
When are you going to do a video on Dana 60s ?
I run 38.5s with a 10 bolt just fine
Thanks man your slowly building up my confidence. Really would suck to buy a 44 but I see a lot of people saying they work just fine. Not planning on doing any rock crawl.
I love it very good
On the topic of the Dana 44 in the newer jeeps they already have made a Dana 45 it is obsolete and they replaced it with the Dana 44
Nice!
Good bit of free knowledge ...
Thanks guys for the very informative video. I currently have a m1009 with 10 bolts 308 gears and was debating 44/60 swap or throw out the 308 and drop in something Lower
So I'm not really asking about a costume effective alternative but I'm curious. I have a d44 out of my old square body I'd love to narrow down for my yj. If I narrow the d44 to stock yj width, can I use the shafts out of a tj Rubicon 44?
Cost effective* is what I meant 😂
Is "10 bolt" in reference to the number of bolts on the diff cover?
Fred you should get a Police crown vick and make it an offroading machine
does anyone know if the square
body shares its front diff with the 67-72
D44 only made till I 78 I dont think so I got front d44. That came out of a 3/4 ton chevy that has 11 /85 stamped on the ring gear .
Swapped my 10-bolt for a Dana 60 in my '87 K10 and couldn't be happier.
@Marc Owens Facebook Marketplace, Craigslist, local classifieds... They're getting few and far between for square body Chevys.. Good luck!
@Marc Owens Would need a Ford Dana 60 for anything with a drivers side transfer case like your '03 Chevy. You would definitely need a welder and some fabrication skills but plenty of people have made them fit.
@Marc Owens For the rear axle you would want to swap in a GM 14-bolt, not a Dana 60.
@Marc Owens I run 44s with my 14-bolt with 5.13s. It's a 10.5" rear axle. Super strong.
The spindles interchange fyi and alot easier to find than the dana 44 small bearing
DANA 44 actually has 8.44 in ring gear. That's why they call it a DANA 44.
ive got a 77 silveraudo...heavy half ton.... but not really because its 4 wheel drive, and has a 400 small block and NP203 (its 100% stock)
and im KINDA sure it has a GM corp 10 bolt in the front.......ill have to look
i also think the rear is a GM 12 bolt......im pretty sure on that one
its a strange truck.....not a lot of them had 400 small blocks, but the VIN says it should have a 400, and the heads have steam holes.....so its a 400
6200 pound GVWR plate......
i really want to have my local gM dealer lookup the VIN and tell me what it actually is.....
because i thought they didnt make heavy halfs in 4x4
does anybody know what rear end will fit in a toyota motor home I have the the 5 lug death rear end 3.90 gear ratio
Oh great! Mom's driving JKs have better axles than most of us. Yay
So is a Teraflex 44 better than both?
This is like archeology. Going through a junkyard I feel like Indiana Jones.
I'm building an 8.8 for the rear of my TJ. Cheaper and way stronger than both those axles. And I prefer the narrow stance.
not sure about cheaper.. Most people, Like myself cant even give there 10 bolts away. But yes obviously the 8.8 is narrower..
actually a 8.8 goes back an forth with the 44 and is about the same price. just the 8.8 is easier to find in a junk yard
Jacob Motley it's cheaper to swap into my TJ than both those axles. And the axles are stronger than both.
i have a 94 chevy k2500 and i am looking in to doing a SAS and I think the 44 will work but I dont know if there is something better anyone know?
So what does my 97 2500 7.4 Litre (I think that's how you spell it in metric) Suburban have for a front axle? I assume the rear is a corporate 14 bolt, but you know what they say about that assuming , being an independent front I am curious what it actually is, nomenclature is everything, especially when trying to acquire parts from anything other than an extremely knowledgeable source...
William Hill. They have a ifs front. Which has a AAM 9.25, aluminium housing center section.
Mike W Thank You sir, it's been bullet proof so far...(knock on wood)
Dana 44 center rack first on top.
Now lets talk about using rockwell axels on our rigs.
It's clear as mud.
Why not an episode on jeep xj???
where can i get some info on a 73 dodge w100
ben You have a Dana 44 front and either a Chrysler 9.25 or 8 3/4 rear, in 73 your bolt pattern would be 5x4.5.
More info on a forum called Ramcharger Central, if you're interested.
I think theres a bigger inner wheel bearing on the later 10 bolts ,
And on another note, the guy states all D44's are 30 spline, which is not true. Old D44's were 19 spline.
Stuka87 Do you know how to tell how old a Dana 44 is? I have a '84 K5, with a D44 6-lug front axle that the previous owner put on. I'm assuming it's a pre-79 axle, but I could be wrong of course.
Dana 44 and 60's are the best. I've seen too many 10 bolts break on half in the mud and swamps where I live.
Michael Williams out of curiosity how many of those tires were with in the recommended size which was 35” . If we’re in da swamp I’d have bigger than that which would seem the reason of to much strain on the axle .
We're not talking about Jeeps
GM corporate 14 bolt front axle
Great video. It would be nice if you let the expect talk though.
We’re do u find a Dana 44 rear axle and can u convert it to the Chevy 6 lug bolt pattern
87 jeep wagoneer it's already a 6 bolt
Yes but they run off set diffs so I don’t want them looking for one from a truck
so newer Jk's come with Dana 44's??
Ricardo Sandoval Sports and Saharas comes with rear Dana44. Only Rubicons come with Dana44s front and rear.
Nice. I have an 8 lug d44 hd in my 73 f250 high boy. I want to replace it with a powerstroke axles
A8vscRrabbit u mean full float 1 ton axles
My info I want Dana 50's & 70's out of a f250. So yes modern full floaters. Like on my 7.3l dually
A8vscRrabbit the 50 is a ttb with a44 center and larger u joints on the outers butt still junk 85 to 99 - f350 60 front high pinon the good one in 99 they came out with the super duty sireslug pattern got bigger but the wheel is a unibearing assembly which is junk the older 60s better hubs 86 Ford came out with the sterling rear witch is close to a 70 rear in size in some duels they still put 70s but not many mostly the sterling probably could only build so many and had to supplement production count 1980 to 99 the 250 was built with the ttb witch is junk .back in the 80-s Work in machine shop that delt with Dana Spicer the company is run with old fuck head management and that is why they have lost a lot of contracts and a lot of the brands are building in house and custom axal builder's are doing well . Dana is based on large production runs ! They won't do small contracts or after market parts just some replacement parts but they like to obsolete a lot of the older axle parts .
Chris Duhaime not the old body style 7.3. The superduty d50's out of an f250 or the d60 out of the f350.
A8vscRrabbit the 60 is best but in srw model so don't have the spindle change in 99 and newer the wheel pattern went to 8 3/4 don't give up I have broke a lot of 44 those axals should have never been under a full size truck there great in a Jeep Dodge and International Harvester 68- 72 had a 70 front sealed knuckle but right side drive and standard pinon one rig build we drilled the welds out and swap sides custom spring pads and pitch the housing up high for the 44 tires kept the King pin angal at 2 degrees to the back it worked great truck done right 70 ×70 513 ratio
That was good info! Stop trying to sell anything to me MT if its not free I ain't paying
If you just can't sleep, I've found your cure
Am I the only one who think it's curious that axles are classified by the number of bolts they have? Really interesting discussion though!
Build Threads most axles aren't classified by the bolts though.. I think ring gear size is more common.
They aren't that's just a slang term for it. He even says it in the video.
Especially when GM makes more than one version of the 10 bolt (7.5" and 8.5" ring gears).
so dana needed 44 bolts where chevy managed with just 10... inefficient..
For Dana, they have axle series. They have the 20 series, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, and the 100 series.
5.89s with the 44
Now i'm more confused that when it started
Uuuuummmmmmmmmm, I’m running 39s KR2s on a Dana 44 with 488s, Detroit and chromoly axle shafts and wheel KOH Johnson Valley.
How $used dana44 for jeep wrangler 2011 from
So can I take 8 lug hubs off a 77 an put them on my 73 half ton
You’ll have to change the spindle for a 3/4 ton bc they are a bit bigger than the 1/2 ton.....
Brian Davis thanks for reply so I need spindles backing plate an hud an it should work
They started using 10 bolts in 77.
Both are great if you want to spend the money on the important stuff still not stronger than a Dana 60
So my chevy dana 44 is a 6 lug. How do i change to 5x5.5.
Do i just redrill??
chevyracer666 put 80s dodge knuckles on it off of a half ton 4x4
Ford or dodge rotor and hub,leave the knuckles, calipers and brackets. Make sure the wheel bearing ID matches the od of the Chevy spindle. I have built axles this way before.
Charles Boetel thanks i was just thinking of redrilling the hub for 5x5.5 bolt pattern.
This is going to be used for a offroad prerunner not 4x4.
chevyracer666 Why would you be using any of these axles on a 2WD? If you're building a 2WD prerunner, there's no good reason IMO to stick with a solid front axle at all.
Chevy rear ends are not dana 44, 10bolts, 12bolt, and 9.5" 14 bolts are all 6 lug rear ends used in 1/2 ton chevs.
jeeze guys, let the man speak
44 any day.