Very charismatic speaker; I was enthralled. On the other hand, after I came down from the rapture that his charismatic delivery generated, I did realize that his world view leaves out those of us non-outward bound gradnuates, ha, who are not going to be leading the expedition up the mountain. Those of us who don't have his mountaineering skills possibly have other things to offer. And what about the many scientists speaking on this podcast who are products of and supported by a university system he seems to abhor? They are providing extremely important and valuable information that would not be available to us if we simplistically prioritized getting out there in the "real world." Thank you again, Nate, for this always thought-provoking and invigorating podcast.
I read Pollan, Wheal, Peterson, Lembke, Haidt, etc. I really like the idea of getting your house in order, and minimizing consumption, increasing social gatherings, and intergenerational knowledge transfer, young to old, old to young. It's been a great help to my entire family. 🌺
Jamie Wheal has more quotable quotes and drops more names than anyone else I can think of, which I once found a little off putting-but more and more I just see that his brain is naturally on fire and so I happily warm myself by it. Thank you for the illuminating conversation!
"Make good ART!" was also the life advice of genius writer Neil Gaiman.... Couldn't agree more! I love that he suggests here to find the intersection of your skills with what will be needed in this new culture.... If only we all could do that!
I absolutely loved both of Jamie's books! Recommend these to anyone..... if you can't already tell, he has a wonderful way with words. This conversation was awesome, and I hope you get to speak to each other more in the future! Thank you!
A very enlightening podcast, from which I learned a lot, not least of which is that I think the USA & Canada have the greatest likelihood of being able to avoid untold violence because (1) you all speak the same language (English), and (2) there is a large percentage of the population who are actually driven, to a greater or lesser extent, to want to make things better for their families and fellow humans. I spent 3 years in Denver area 1993-1996, and found the Americans to be the nicest people I had come to know in the world.
"The work of the mature person is to carry grief in one hand and gratitude in the other and to be stretched large by them. How much sorrow can I hold? That’s how much gratitude I can give. If I carry only grief, I’ll bend toward cynicism and despair. If I have only gratitude, I’ll become saccharine and won’t develop much compassion for other people’s suffering. Grief keeps the heart fluid and soft, which helps make compassion possible." - Francis Weller, The Geography of Sorrow
I appreciated the section of this conversation where Jamie talked about the necessity to be prepared (1:04:00 get your house in order) so that you can be of service to others...
@1:11:00- Don’t appreciate Wheal’s characterization of “Millennials” here. Or his “playing devils advocate” on any shred of advice or direction offered by others while underscoring his own path as the most valid. Listening to him speak, I’ve always come away feeling- sure you talk a great talk (which is punctuated by breaths that resemble someone eating a meal as if the food will disappear off their plate any second), you take great mental notes of things other people are writing about or doing, you adopt jargon specialized enough to sound super well informed, and frankly- I agree with many of your points, but it is smothered in a sense that this is a man completely lost in a false image of himself as some sort of transformed super capable individual. An image that can only be maintained as long as there is an audience sitting at his knee. He didn’t answer the question directly about whether, given his rehashing of findings concerning music, if he himself has been changed in the way he personally utilizes music, he just slipped right back into “I’m an expert, listen to all the knowledge I have to impart.” And his attitude concerning any person or group that he hasn’t personally selected as a source of inspiration is a major turn off. In almost the same breath he speaks of his expedition of future leaders to Utah and then a trip to LA, (clearly a frequent flyer- wonder how that model works out in a post-growth, systems-informed true-cost economy- but it’s okay, it’s for the special elite leaders who know where the real answers lie and can guide us “fat kids”) he casts judgment on an age group who have literally been priced out of homeownership and have lived lives punctuated, since childhood, by all the contractions of a society in decline, who he admonishes to get their house in order. What house dude? You act like the apocalypse is knocking at the door instead of the reality that it has already begun for many people. Including young people- well, those of us who don’t have parents who have $250K to jumpstart our futures. We were born into apocalypse. Which is why people like you who act as though they are endowed with some God like power to lead the people to Zion smell so strong of false prophet to people like me. But hey- it’s working for you, and children clearly. Glad you are afforded the luxury of getting your house in order before confronting the apocalypse. Maybe I can Airbnb one of your kids’ extra rooms one day. If you want respect, give some respect. You aren’t entitled to it.
Starting reading Jamie's new book, Recapture the Rapture, a few days ago. Then I see your podcast on my newsfeed. No, this is not an algorithm. I subscribe to your Channel and always look forward to your interviews. As usual, great interview Nate!
Nate, seriously NOW you've got to consider connecting with John Vervaeke. His series titled Awakening from the Meaning Crisis is absolutely phukken brilliant fascinating prescient AND illuminating... IT ties in to this episode, with direct regards to this guy's whole delivered Gestalt or schtick herein. Cheers 🥂 Peace ✌️ Buddy 🕊️
He got my hackles up when he claimed that populism and nativitism are pressing issues that are emerging and that need to be addressed, through some sort of religion 3.0. Populism is a reaction to a political and economic establishment that is non transparent or democratically accountable, and nativism is a reaction to the open borders policies of neoliberalism which depress the wages of the working class, contribute to increasing resource depletion, and undermine cultural cohesion. Also, searching for religion 3.0 amidst peak experiences decentralised and accounted for on a network strikes me as peak deracination. People can also get these experiences in traditional, culturally instantiated practices and rituals, which go beyond attending church. I'm based in Europe [Ireland] where these things are very present and alive in a way that probably isn't to the same extent in parts of America.
Ruthlessly realistic? I have never once ever heard the proposition that the 4 BILLION-year-old Earth is any thing other than the milieu for a 200-thousand-year-old species - homo sapiens. The presumptive arrogance of that proposition is humanity's "achilles heel".
All past civilizations have collapsed (not always to zero). Some humans have always survived across the gaps. There is no reason to believe our civilization is any different. Clever monkeys don’t know how to invent / design their own civilizations, yet. Humans will live in smaller communities again; at least for awhile.
@@teiuq - I don't think the length of the civilization-gap will matter, the Amish can go for hundreds of years; but nuclear winter could mess things up.
Very charismatic speaker; I was enthralled. On the other hand, after I came down from the rapture that his charismatic delivery generated, I did realize that his world view leaves out those of us non-outward bound gradnuates, ha, who are not going to be leading the expedition up the mountain. Those of us who don't have his mountaineering skills possibly have other things to offer. And what about the many scientists speaking on this podcast who are products of and supported by a university system he seems to abhor? They are providing extremely important and valuable information that would not be available to us if we simplistically prioritized getting out there in the "real world."
Thank you again, Nate, for this always thought-provoking and invigorating podcast.
I read Pollan, Wheal, Peterson, Lembke, Haidt, etc. I really like the idea of getting your house in order, and minimizing consumption, increasing social gatherings, and intergenerational knowledge transfer, young to old, old to young. It's been a great help to my entire family. 🌺
Jamie Wheal has more quotable quotes and drops more names than anyone else I can think of, which I once found a little off putting-but more and more I just see that his brain is naturally on fire and so I happily warm myself by it. Thank you for the illuminating conversation!
Completely agree - on the surface he seems overly verbose, but he’s a brilliant mind. He isn’t staying alive, he’s coming alive - and you can hear it!
There needs to be a works cited page included for all the references in this episode.
@@ellenhunter5123 There is (for each episode): www.thegreatsimplification.com/episode/13-jamie-wheal
@@thegreatsimplification oh! Wonderful. Thank you. That is going to take me a week to work through. Yes! Appreciate it.
@@ellenhunter5123 🤣
Thank you. Great podcast, such an important series
"Make good ART!" was also the life advice of genius writer Neil Gaiman....
Couldn't agree more!
I love that he suggests here to find the intersection of your skills with what will be needed in this new culture....
If only we all could do that!
I absolutely loved both of Jamie's books!
Recommend these to anyone..... if you can't already tell, he has a wonderful way with words.
This conversation was awesome, and I hope you get to speak to each other more in the future!
Thank you!
Dancing at home alone with your dogs? Thank god I’m not the only one. And it definitely relieves stress and anxiety.
Absolutly amazing! I wait in anticipation weekly to hear this podcast! Thank you
Friends, dogs, learing and sharing!!!!!
And always nature!
Yes! Two of my favorite minds in one convo.
A very enlightening podcast, from which I learned a lot, not least of which is that I think the USA & Canada have the greatest likelihood of being able to avoid untold violence because (1) you all speak the same language (English), and (2) there is a large percentage of the population who are actually driven, to a greater or lesser extent, to want to make things better for their families and fellow humans. I spent 3 years in Denver area 1993-1996, and found the Americans to be the nicest people I had come to know in the world.
"The work of the mature person is to carry grief in one hand and gratitude in the other and to be stretched large by them. How much sorrow can I hold? That’s how much gratitude I can give. If I carry only grief, I’ll bend toward cynicism and despair. If I have only gratitude, I’ll become saccharine and won’t develop much compassion for other people’s suffering. Grief keeps the heart fluid and soft, which helps make compassion possible." - Francis Weller, The Geography of Sorrow
Thank you❤🌹🙏, Jamie Wheal and Nate👍! Inspiring😄 conversation!
Every episode is a treasure, thank you for your precious efforts to bring people together! :)
I appreciated the section of this conversation where Jamie talked about the necessity to be prepared (1:04:00 get your house in order) so that you can be of service to others...
Dances with dogs: I love it, Nate. Thanks for the great dialogue, AGAIN.
@1:11:00- Don’t appreciate Wheal’s characterization of “Millennials” here. Or his “playing devils advocate” on any shred of advice or direction offered by others while underscoring his own path as the most valid.
Listening to him speak, I’ve always come away feeling- sure you talk a great talk (which is punctuated by breaths that resemble someone eating a meal as if the food will disappear off their plate any second), you take great mental notes of things other people are writing about or doing, you adopt jargon specialized enough to sound super well informed, and frankly- I agree with many of your points, but it is smothered in a sense that this is a man completely lost in a false image of himself as some sort of transformed super capable individual. An image that can only be maintained as long as there is an audience sitting at his knee.
He didn’t answer the question directly about whether, given his rehashing of findings concerning music, if he himself has been changed in the way he personally utilizes music, he just slipped right back into “I’m an expert, listen to all the knowledge I have to impart.” And his attitude concerning any person or group that he hasn’t personally selected as a source of inspiration is a major turn off.
In almost the same breath he speaks of his expedition of future leaders to Utah and then a trip to LA, (clearly a frequent flyer- wonder how that model works out in a post-growth, systems-informed true-cost economy- but it’s okay, it’s for the special elite leaders who know where the real answers lie and can guide us “fat kids”) he casts judgment on an age group who have literally been priced out of homeownership and have lived lives punctuated, since childhood, by all the contractions of a society in decline, who he admonishes to get their house in order. What house dude?
You act like the apocalypse is knocking at the door instead of the reality that it has already begun for many people. Including young people- well, those of us who don’t have parents who have $250K to jumpstart our futures. We were born into apocalypse. Which is why people like you who act as though they are endowed with some God like power to lead the people to Zion smell so strong of false prophet to people like me. But hey- it’s working for you, and children clearly. Glad you are afforded the luxury of getting your house in order before confronting the apocalypse.
Maybe I can Airbnb one of your kids’ extra rooms one day. If you want respect, give some respect. You aren’t entitled to it.
Agreed. I've been following him for years, due to his valuable contributions, but he's extremely 'oily' in many ways. It's a shame.
Starting reading Jamie's new book, Recapture the Rapture, a few days ago. Then I see your podcast on my newsfeed. No, this is not an algorithm. I subscribe to your Channel and always look forward to your interviews. As usual, great interview Nate!
The part on music was my favorite, but the whole book was fascinating!
Nate, seriously NOW you've got to consider connecting with John Vervaeke. His series titled Awakening from the Meaning Crisis is absolutely phukken brilliant fascinating prescient AND illuminating... IT ties in to this episode, with direct regards to this guy's whole delivered Gestalt or schtick herein. Cheers 🥂 Peace ✌️ Buddy 🕊️
Thank you for this nate
I really enjoyed this but I don’t know if I missed something. Is neuroanthropology mentioned at any point? Other than sidestepped
Love Jamie!
He and Daniel Smachtenberger have helped me with sense making for a couple of years now!
I knew it!! He knows about the dance of the Dead!!!
Bob Marley said it really well in Trenchtown Rock..."one good thing about music, when it hits you feel no pain, so hit me with music!"
Superlatives. This is one of those that one listening is not enough. One is drawn to digest, pause, and then replay.
The economic model that will work is based on the elements, energy and entropy.
He got my hackles up when he claimed that populism and nativitism are pressing issues that are emerging and that need to be addressed, through some sort of religion 3.0.
Populism is a reaction to a political and economic establishment that is non transparent or democratically accountable, and nativism is a reaction to the open borders policies of neoliberalism which depress the wages of the working class, contribute to increasing resource depletion, and undermine cultural cohesion.
Also, searching for religion 3.0 amidst peak experiences decentralised and accounted for on a network strikes me as peak deracination.
People can also get these experiences in traditional, culturally instantiated practices and rituals, which go beyond attending church.
I'm based in Europe [Ireland] where these things are very present and alive in a way that probably isn't to the same extent in parts of America.
Wheal is just 'leftism 2.0', sadly.
Hey bro, there's plenty of Wiscosin peeps that want to talk about this kinda stuff. Maybe not local local to you but close ;)
Yup!
A month of abstinence sounds a lot like Ramadan))
The rise of rapture ideologies! It's everywhere.
Ruthlessly realistic? I have never once ever heard the proposition that the 4 BILLION-year-old Earth is any thing other than the milieu for a 200-thousand-year-old species - homo sapiens. The presumptive arrogance of that proposition is humanity's "achilles heel".
there just ins't any robust evidence that any psychotherapy is effective
All past civilizations have collapsed (not always to zero). Some humans have always survived across the gaps. There is no reason to believe our civilization is any different. Clever monkeys don’t know how to invent / design their own civilizations, yet. Humans will live in smaller communities again; at least for awhile.
nope,,,this time is different
@@rickricky5626 - okay, what makes this time different
@@marktomasetti8642 we got exponential tech in the mix... maybe the "gap" is longer this time...
@@teiuq - I don't think the length of the civilization-gap will matter, the Amish can go for hundreds of years; but nuclear winter could mess things up.
@Sunshine Cloudyday - Okay, so maybe we'll get Planet of the Apes; earth made us before, it can make us again.
And whatever else you do, stock up on toilet paper.