I almost never donk bet on flops. The only time I do is when I have a pair+flush draw or str8+flush draw and my opponent is a recreational that likes to raise too much. I pick a size where if they raise, I can jam all-in and pick up the pot often. This also lets me see what kind of hands they are willing to stack off with. If I see weak stuff stacking off, I know I can take this line with strong made hands in the future. When I used to play HU exclusively, there was a time where instead of check-raising flops I would call and donk bet the turn instead. The idea was to keep the pot smaller, people also reacted weirdly to it and I'd usually get more fold equity. I would even get berated in the chat sometimes. I no longer do this. I think the best time to use a donk bet is when your opponent is likely to check if you were to check. In the hand above, I probably would have played your hand the same way, but end up costing myself on the river by making a 1/3 bet with the queen high flush. Didn't even see the str8 flush.
I love a good donk bet, especially when I've been folding a lot of hands and playing the ones I'm do get into aggressively , it gets a lot of people to fold thinking I must have hit big.
I occasionally donk bet against 1 other player on low boards when I hit top or 2nd pair on a board such as 863 or as a bluff or bluff draw. My point in raising with a pair it to avoid getting easily out drawn. My bet size is usually quite high, 2 3rds pot for example.
I have found that when players donk small on the flop in multiway pots, it is almost always with draws. They are trying to price themselves in to draw. He doesn't want to check and have you bet 2/3 pot if he can see another card for only 1/4 pot. If villain had a set on this board, he would either check raise or bet much larger on the flop so the other draws do not get to realize their equity for a cheap price. Obviously this is exploitable by just calling with your own good draws, as you did in this hand, and raising with your overpairs, sets, and 2 pairs. I had a hand online two days ago where the cutoff opened, I 3 bet with JhTh on the button, got a cold call from the big blind, and a call from the cutoff. The flop came KJ7 with 2 clubs and the big blind led out for 1/7 pot and the cutoff called. Super weird stuff. I called in case one of them was trying to induce a raise and because a player this bad might not fold to a raise even with just a gut shot, which would leave me in a bloated pot with 2nd pair. Turn was a low blank and he led again for the same amount as the flop - only now it's like barely 1/10 pot. Cutoff called again and I sigh and call. River was a blank and the big blind again led out for the 3rd time with like a 1/20 pot bet. The cutoff min raised. At this point I still only have 2nd pair but there was almost 90 bb in the pot and all the draws missed. I felt like the cutoff would have raised the flop or turn with a good king, and he shouldn't be opening and calling a 3 bet out of position with a bad king, so I decided I wasn't going to fold getting 10:1 odds. I won the hand in a 3 way pot at showdown with 2nd pair. I have no idea what these other players had, but obviously they were just praying to hit their cards.
Solide content JL 😎 like the rivercheckback, that will keep you out of trouble. Some could get gready in the hand at some point. Cheers, thanks for the explain and enjoy your week 😉
I see the QJo raise spot of yours often in tournaments. Usually the BB calls PF and donk bets on the flop. My guess is they are assuming 70% we miss and they lead with any piece of the board (draw or some made pair). I often have zero clue what to do here when I miss and I am left with most of my PF range or even AK.
On the 10 9 5 8 7 - 4 flush board - based on the line villain took - imo he will call a small river bet if he KNOWS YOU are Johnathan Little. Greater than 95% chance he doesn't CR river either. People that take lines like that don't want to be bluffed with a stronger than one paired hand by capable players with a name in the game such as yours. 25% or under pot bet will get the call. Any larger bet will get a small tank fold. Imo - Phil Hellmuth(not a Phil fan) would make a small bet here with quite ease. Players that take that type of line will level themselves into calling without a thought of a CR which allows you to safely bet small on river. Sometimes players find inspiration to make a CR play on the river - but it just rarely happens in the general public let alone in that spot with those specific holdings. It's a completely under bluffed spot if even a bluff spot at all. But a less variance line would be to check back river. He doesn't always have a better than one pair hand to begin with on that river. Not always getting paid to begin with.
How do you not know what has happened in the hand before you hit play? Aren't you entering in the information into the hand replayer, or does one of your staff do that for you
What would you have done if instead of betting 7K on flop and 18K on turn he had bet smaller (say 4K on flop and, if you only call on the flop, 10K on turn)?
I think, it does change things a little bit, that this is a tournament. In a cash game I would be more tempted to raise that small donk bet with both my good made hands and my good draws including this one. But in tournaments we dont really want to be flipping for 70+ BB, if we can avoid it. Even in a cash game I like checking back the river. Just dont see a ton of value in betting, even if we mostly have the best hand.
Alternative view: Would he risk no value bet by checking that river if he had the nut flush? To me it seems to me that he did not like that river (but I have not seen the full video yet) and at best he had a marginal flush. 20k bet could be good.
I think a small bet on the river might lead the laggy kid to check-raise and put you to difficult decision. I think he knows two pair is likely not good at showdown.
It's hard to say who has the range advantage on this texture cutoff vs sb, because the SB shouldn't have a flatting range at all, right? But say we node lock him and say he can only call. In that case he has the range advantage here (gap principle) and also the nut advantage. He should have more suited hands, more middle pairs, and less junky aces and Broadway than you. So in that case, he should probably be donking boards that are queen, jack, and ten-high, I would think? You're going to check back in position a lot to try to Bink your bad ace, I would think. He had to lead the sets here too, of course.
Do you donk bet? When do you think it's best to use a donk bet?
Purposely firing a weird donk bet into a maniac with the intent on checking the turn or making an unconventional play to trap is so much fun!
I almost never donk bet on flops. The only time I do is when I have a pair+flush draw or str8+flush draw and my opponent is a recreational that likes to raise too much. I pick a size where if they raise, I can jam all-in and pick up the pot often. This also lets me see what kind of hands they are willing to stack off with. If I see weak stuff stacking off, I know I can take this line with strong made hands in the future.
When I used to play HU exclusively, there was a time where instead of check-raising flops I would call and donk bet the turn instead. The idea was to keep the pot smaller, people also reacted weirdly to it and I'd usually get more fold equity. I would even get berated in the chat sometimes. I no longer do this.
I think the best time to use a donk bet is when your opponent is likely to check if you were to check.
In the hand above, I probably would have played your hand the same way, but end up costing myself on the river by making a 1/3 bet with the queen high flush. Didn't even see the str8 flush.
I love a good donk bet, especially when I've been folding a lot of hands and playing the ones I'm do get into aggressively , it gets a lot of people to fold thinking I must have hit big.
I occasionally donk bet against 1 other player on low boards when I hit top or 2nd pair on a board such as 863 or as a bluff or bluff draw. My point in raising with a pair it to avoid getting easily out drawn. My bet size is usually quite high, 2 3rds pot for example.
Perfect example of what we talked about on little coffee last week thanks coach
Yep!
I have found that when players donk small on the flop in multiway pots, it is almost always with draws. They are trying to price themselves in to draw. He doesn't want to check and have you bet 2/3 pot if he can see another card for only 1/4 pot. If villain had a set on this board, he would either check raise or bet much larger on the flop so the other draws do not get to realize their equity for a cheap price. Obviously this is exploitable by just calling with your own good draws, as you did in this hand, and raising with your overpairs, sets, and 2 pairs.
I had a hand online two days ago where the cutoff opened, I 3 bet with JhTh on the button, got a cold call from the big blind, and a call from the cutoff. The flop came KJ7 with 2 clubs and the big blind led out for 1/7 pot and the cutoff called. Super weird stuff. I called in case one of them was trying to induce a raise and because a player this bad might not fold to a raise even with just a gut shot, which would leave me in a bloated pot with 2nd pair. Turn was a low blank and he led again for the same amount as the flop - only now it's like barely 1/10 pot. Cutoff called again and I sigh and call. River was a blank and the big blind again led out for the 3rd time with like a 1/20 pot bet. The cutoff min raised. At this point I still only have 2nd pair but there was almost 90 bb in the pot and all the draws missed. I felt like the cutoff would have raised the flop or turn with a good king, and he shouldn't be opening and calling a 3 bet out of position with a bad king, so I decided I wasn't going to fold getting 10:1 odds. I won the hand in a 3 way pot at showdown with 2nd pair. I have no idea what these other players had, but obviously they were just praying to hit their cards.
Nice call!
Solide content JL 😎 like the rivercheckback, that will keep you out of trouble. Some could get gready in the hand at some point. Cheers, thanks for the explain and enjoy your week 😉
Thanks, I'm glad you liked it! You too, have a great week!
I would have made the mistake of raising on the flop. That’s why I’m a PCP member- to learn to fix these mistakes. Thank you JL.
Awesome! Are you enjoying the content on PCP so far?
Between the exceptional material and deft staff lead by you, I couldn’t be happier-with an added gold star for its diversity of content.
@@AsaSpater Thanks! We do our best.
I see the QJo raise spot of yours often in tournaments. Usually the BB calls PF and donk bets on the flop. My guess is they are assuming 70% we miss and they lead with any piece of the board (draw or some made pair). I often have zero clue what to do here when I miss and I am left with most of my PF range or even AK.
If you have junk, just fold. You will have plenty of strong hands that can continue, so there's no need to call with everything.
On the 10 9 5 8 7 - 4 flush board - based on the line villain took - imo he will call a small river bet if he KNOWS YOU are Johnathan Little. Greater than 95% chance he doesn't CR river either. People that take lines like that don't want to be bluffed with a stronger than one paired hand by capable players with a name in the game such as yours. 25% or under pot bet will get the call. Any larger bet will get a small tank fold. Imo - Phil Hellmuth(not a Phil fan) would make a small bet here with quite ease. Players that take that type of line will level themselves into calling without a thought of a CR which allows you to safely bet small on river. Sometimes players find inspiration to make a CR play on the river - but it just rarely happens in the general public let alone in that spot with those specific holdings. It's a completely under bluffed spot if even a bluff spot at all.
But a less variance line would be to check back river. He doesn't always have a better than one pair hand to begin with on that river. Not always getting paid to begin with.
How do you not know what has happened in the hand before you hit play? Aren't you entering in the information into the hand replayer, or does one of your staff do that for you
A member of my team enters the hands for review, taking it from my notes. It was from a long time ago and I don't remember hands well.
What would you have done if instead of betting 7K on flop and 18K on turn he had bet smaller (say 4K on flop and, if you only call on the flop, 10K on turn)?
Calling still seems best.
what if villain made a river 1/2 pot bet would you call or fold or re raise? what to do? if he had Ac or Kc not bet big to suck more chips from you ?
What would you do if he blasted the river?
He said he would call any reasonable bet
Call. If it's an overbet, I start to consider folding.
With four to a straight flush, this is a risky spot for the opponent to overbet bluff.
@@hymnofashes Agreed.
@@PokerCoaching- how much what would be minimum to consider a over bet?
I think, it does change things a little bit, that this is a tournament. In a cash game I would be more tempted to raise that small donk bet with both my good made hands and my good draws including this one. But in tournaments we dont really want to be flipping for 70+ BB, if we can avoid it. Even in a cash game I like checking back the river. Just dont see a ton of value in betting, even if we mostly have the best hand.
I agree river is an easy check. You have to bet very very small to get any value. I thought you played great.
Thanks!
Alternative view: Would he risk no value bet by checking that river if he had the nut flush? To me it seems to me that he did not like that river (but I have not seen the full video yet) and at best he had a marginal flush. 20k bet could be good.
I think a small bet on the river might lead the laggy kid to check-raise and put you to difficult decision. I think he knows two pair is likely not good at showdown.
I can show you several instances, where leading the flop is fundamentally superior to "floating yourself" and checking a made hand.
Yes, certainly. I think it's clear that the solvers prefer leading in many spots.
It's hard to say who has the range advantage on this texture cutoff vs sb, because the SB shouldn't have a flatting range at all, right? But say we node lock him and say he can only call. In that case he has the range advantage here (gap principle) and also the nut advantage. He should have more suited hands, more middle pairs, and less junky aces and Broadway than you. So in that case, he should probably be donking boards that are queen, jack, and ten-high, I would think? You're going to check back in position a lot to try to Bink your bad ace, I would think.
He had to lead the sets here too, of course.
That's a hell of a river. Ugh.
Fun game!
I like you but too much talking no content, brAD OWEN