Back in the day, SSJ4 Gogeta felt great as a pure fuck you character to the strongest villain at the time being Omega. It’s just DBS Broly came along. But all Gogeta’s are just goated
When someone says Goku is overrated cause he never loses, it tells me all I need to know about them lol. Just tell me you never watched/read Dragon Ball and move on 😂
Frieza whooped him. Buu . Cell. Each villan had whooped him. Jiren scraped him across the hardest material in the universe multiple times and killed him to get mui lmao
Fun fact: In the Japanese Dub of the Z Broly movie Paragus explained that Broly actually sensed Goku's power when he first arrived on the trap planet/New Planet Vegeta (Specifically in the scene where they were sizing each other up and everything faded to black except for them and their auras.) and that caused his saiyan instincts to go out of control which made him see Goku as a powerful opponent he wanted to fight and kill, the crying had nothing to do with it. He says quote, "Could it be Kakarrot? Does this mean that Broly's instincts as a saiyan have been awakened by Kakarrots power, and he is starting to overcome my mind control?" Also in the JP dub he only knows Goku's saiyan name because Vegeta said it right in front of Broly. Broly also only starts remembering Goku right when he is defeated. Also for people who keep misreading my comment, Broly didn’t get his saiyan instincts unlocked until he sensed Goku as an adult, Baby Goku had nothing to do with it!
Yeah I just hope Sage knows there is a large portion of Vegeta fans that know exactly who he’s talking about and we think those stans are doing too much too
Vegeta is a great character, he is NOT a complex character His development is extremely simple & well put together. Like Sage said, Vegeta fans do tend to gas him up way more than is deserved, but it's because of how often he gets cheated out of getting a meaningful W. I'll always love Vegeta, hoping one day he gets the dub he deserves for the years of hard work.
@@Eggs543 Piccolo's good too. But vegeta's development was done across three arcs and executed better. It was more fleshed out compared to Piccolo who's development happened off screen with training gohan
GT the series is carried by the video games. - Dragon Ball GT fan. As a fan of the series and everything before and even if GT is lack luster as a series I still love it.
“Trunks does live off of cool design.” He totally does. He had the greatest character introduction in dragon ball and it was easily one of the most iconic anime scenes of its time. He was a great character in Z and I like his personality and concept. I appreciate that he is the only saiyan out of the main 4 saiyans (android saga) who wasn’t battle hungry or bloodthirsty. He clearly has ptsd from his future and its made him practical, cautious, and conflict avoidant. I like that he fulfills a much more relatable role than goku or Vegeta the same way gohan does. They prefer pacifism to battle but Trunks just wants to live a modest life in peace and never gives into his anger the way gohan did against cell. They bring back characters like trunks because of the coolness factor. It’s the same with broly, vegito, and gogeta. They brought back 17 for the exact same reason as trunks. 17 had an amazing and iconic design for the time the same way trunks does. They both float on the rule of cool. I think that’s also the same reason they ended up giving 17 an amazing role in DB super. 17 actually had a cool personality in Z that differed from 17 in super. Z 17 had pride in his strength and he loved fighting, that’s why he and piccolo brawled it out in such a long, awesome, and drawn out fight. 17 in DB super comes across as much more mature and he’s a very smart fighter. Trunks already had a great character arc in Z and as much as I like future trunks, he didn’t need to some back in super. They only did it because he’s a popular character. I think 17 returning was handled much better and they didn’t make him a Gary Stu the way they made trunks. Future Trunks could’ve came back at some point but for me, he was ruined in the goku black arc. …Although I’d much prefer they focused on making kid trunks and goten good and relevant character instead of future trunks, who is literally THE SAME person as present time period trunks. Kid trunks has a much more likable personality compared to future trunks. Future trunks being a naive pacifist makes no sense to me because of how hellish his life has been. Future trunks should be more like future gohan, who felt like a real warrior from a post-apocalyptic future. Future trunks’s personality is too whiny and idealistic for how mentally scarred he is. Living in that future would’ve realistically made trunks way more cynical and nihilistic (at least a little bit). I think that’s part of why trunks’s rage power-up felt so absurd in super. Trunks just isn’t THAT GUY and we shouldn’t pretend he is.
Eh, i can kinda see your Ssj4 Gogeta take. The episode itself didn't have him do much, but tbh GT as an Anime in general was rough when it came to ya know, the actual animation... Good thing the games are most of his legacy, lol. I aint excluding all that. GT birthed him but the games raised him, i'd be crazy to exclude all that
@@kermitgotthesickkicks4265 to the games, they're also specifically a Ssj4 Gogeta thing. Ssj and Blue Gogeta don't have that aura in the games that Ssj4 has, they never have. so including the games specifically for Ssj4 should be fine since they're so connected
NIce topic Sage. I think best fight in the series could be another good one Z Broly is a super cool design btw just had a lot of fanatics that were brain dead when trying to debate them
17:14 Most overrated is future trunks. Hes got no significant dub unless he needed to either go back in time and beat someone weaker then him like king cold and freiza or go back in time to get help from his father or goku or have them train him. And dont get us started on ssj rage, which literally, makes no sense as to how he got it, how its strong enough to hang with people he was getting washed by just 2 episodes prior, and its just a dumb overrated power up that makes no sense
@@box4467SSJ rage isn’t filler. The anime isn’t an adaptation of the manga and is equally as canon to the manga, they are both just different continuities. SSJ rage is very real.
I think everyone gets the gist but I'm gonna say it anyways. I feel like the Goku glaze comes from everyone knowing that his _spirit_ is undefeatable, rather than he himself being undefeatable. He's at his best when he can get back up and find a way to stand his ground. Sage was going through them already but I wanna list them out for all the people who forget. - Lost to Jackie Chun - Lost against Mercenary Tao - Lost to Tien - Got curbstomped by Piccolo _and_ his son (even though he won both fights) - Died to Raditz - Lost the 1v1 against Vegeta - Lost to Ginyu - Got tossed by Frieza til he turned Super Saiyan. Even then he still couldn't _kill_ Frieza. - Got the space 'rona (Heart Virus) even with the medicine Trunks gave him - Couldn't even beat Cell and knew this good and well - Died against Cell - Got caught lackin by Majin Vegeta - Got tossed by Kid Buu (even though he won) "But can they beat Goku tho" is nothing more than a meme lol
Sage im pretty sure when that guy said you have goku fans think he never lose a fight he was talking about how ever time a new anime character comes out it does he beat goku and then they fight you on it
Btw Sage if you wanna fuck with Vegeta fans again you could point out the filler episodes in DBS where he was sucking on a pacifier cause he could disappear or whatever
Vegeta suffers from the same thing as Jason Todd, the writers won’t let his character advance because he is “too good” at being a bad guy/foil for another character. Just sad to see
I don’t think Vegeta is overrated. He is still the second best handled character in the series and we can’t act like it’s not close. And for all the love he gets we can’t act like there isn’t a hate boner some fans have for him bc he keeps losing. In my eyes that somewhat offsets the dumb glazers
Vegeta act like a rich little kid(hmm maybe Malfoy), sometimes even like a clown(anime). He is one of the worst character or was because in Moro, Granolah and Super Hero Vegeta is very okay.
@@zetset57 “and Goku is a fight sexual with no regard for the earth and a painful level of naïveté”. You see how if we make sweeping statements based on there worst traits we can make anyone look bad.
I think the whole goku is "undefeated" thing is because of "Can he beat goku tho" and the popularity of super and MUI Goku been losing more than he wins
If you want to find hundreds or even thousands of fanboys that think Goku never loses, look no further than the comment section of any video about Goku vs Superman or Goku vs Saitama.
Another take I have is that Nerfing the fusion timers is stupid. It’s the reason ssj4 Gogeta got shafted, and the same reason Vegito got shafted in super. If you were already nerfing Vegito to an hour with the explanation, but basically cutting that time it half like ssj4 Gogeta is stupid.
Most overrated for me is definitely Z Broly from all 3 of his movies, he went 1/3 and that 1 movie just gave him cool fight scenes and moments, nothing really good story wise. But I feel like most people agree with that
Z Broly was a very early villain. They’re not gonna just write him with this incredible arc, characterization, or depth. Z broly was just supposed to be a regular movie villain but he had such an interesting concept and great character design, so he ended up being super popular. I always thought Z broly was cool for the same reason I like kid buu. They both feel like these primal forces of nature rather than actual characters with personality and depth. Sometimes I think that can be a very interesting concept for a villain.
My favorite one sided fight is Vegeta Krillin and Gohan Vs Recoome. it's really great character development for Gohan dispite him getting wiped out AND MIND YOU this is a FOUR YEAR OLD!! VS A FULL GROWN SPACE MERCENARY MAN! gohan got his neak snaped, and pulled through it all, then went to survive against and at times overwelm friezas lower forms briefly. I'm a say it Kid Gohan was goated
The idea of a four year old getting his neck broken and suffering the beating of his life by a giant half naked alien with teeth missing the way recoome did is legitimate horror. Dbz had some terrifying moments and the recoome fight is an underrated one
Im sorry man but in OG DB frieza is just an absolute moron with a lot of power. I really dont understand where the Frieza is intelligent thing actually came from because it certainly isnt shown in the namek arc. Seriously, name 1 actually intelligent thing he does in the entire namek arc. He trolled his own saga harder than any other character in dragon ball ever did, and that is a VERY high hurdle to pass, and, unlike the other characters, he doesn't even have a real reason to do so. His motivations are also super inconsistent throughout, first he is happy that he found someone who could physically challenge him outside of his immediate family, then, a couple chapters later, he starts complaining that goku hit him once. He commits gennocide on an enormously profitable race for him out of fear of the super saiyan, then proceeds to allow every single opportunity for the two strongest saiyans he ever met to grow even stronger. Saying you like him better than Cell I can understand, stating Frieza is an objectively better character is just insanity. That brat is all charm no depth.
i do agree super broly has more character story depth but do i think Z broly is better? absolutely, the pure idea of something like "the legendary super sayian" being a unbelieavably strong 100% character is amazing. Also i feel like broly has to die stronger than the rest when he does becuase if anybody gets a form stronger than the legendary super sayian form... now it feels not impressive
I live DBZ but I see plenty of fanboys that talk about Goku like hes untouchable. Think this happens most with the crossover fan matches (Saitama, Superman)
Pitting Goku against Superman literally is one of those matches that heavily relies on WHICH Superman we're talking about, that's why it's so easy for people to say Goku solos, or Superman sweeps.
Half the points against the characters that are apparently overrated, are just about their win-loss record or their overall involvement in the defeat of the main villain, but nothing about their actual personality or characters. Trunks is loved not because he wins all of his fights. But because he comes from a tragic future and yet he's still able to find hope. He's an extremely polite person with a good heart and wants to protect his loved ones. And he shows no mercy to his enemies and seeks to end his fights as quickly as possible. I often see people bringing up how he's stupid because of Super Saiyan grade 3 which in my opinion people confuse character flaws with flawed writing. Trunk's whole focus is to get stronger to protect the future. So his training would focus on immediately seeing results in boosting his power. He's not a fighting genius like Goku or Vegeta. He's a guy who's had to learn everything on the fly in order to survive. And I like the fact that his loss against Cell doesn't end in a big beam clash or anything, it just ends with Trunks looking dejected and realizing his mistake. Yeah sure maybe he doesn't get a big moment during the final fight with Cell, but his character is never ruined because of it. And his satisfying payoff is us getting to see him completely demolish the Androids and Imperfect Cell. And even in super despite the fact that he's involved in a lot of bad writing, I don't hate his character. I'm just not a fan of his design or the fact that his entire happy ending in Z gets completely shat on. Also can we stop with the Trunks and Mai relationship? Like does anyone enjoy that?
Not gonna lie, the Goku take was pseudo correct. If you’ve been on the internet for an unhealthy amount of time, you’ll find a lot of people trying to give Goku this insane KD ratio against other fictional characters. In context of the series itself, the tweet doesn’t make a lot of sense (also poorly worded). But when you take the context of the internet and people on it, it starts to make sense. I don’t necessarily agree with that take, but I can see “why” Goku is overrated in their eyes. KEYWORDS: WHY, and IN THEIR EYES. Edit: Also the word "overrated" has almost lost all its meaning over the years. So it is hard to identify what is and isn't overrated.
It doesn’t help that in the context that they are putting goku in .. he would win. So it’s people who says “ goku always win “ but they put him against people he would beat so it doesn’t help their case.
Super gogeta been my goat since the day I saw the movie just off of how cool he looked to me my second favorite character and dragon ball is ssbkk goku
If you see Super 17 (From GT) being "gassed" you're in the trenches of the internet. I see people that like him, sure, but most people generally consider Super 17 the worst GT villain.
Vegeta ans Piccolo have a bag because they never used the same move twice in the original run of Dragon Ball and Z. Every opportunity they had to fight someone, they busted out a new move. The lazy writers of Super had Piccolo and Vegeta spamming special beam canon and galick gun respectively.
You right, it's crazy how Goku who is not so smart have many many techniqes and Piccolo few at most. They not gave him techniqes but also stole some like Light Grenade.
28:55 lil me thought Trunks was the coolest fictional character ever. The jacket, the sword, the boots. Weaving signs for his jutsu. The action figure that came with the time machine. He was untouchable. Adult me was very disappointed by Super Trunks, and even kid trunks. GT trunks is dead to me.
As much as it pains me to say it… Trunks has to be the right answer. He isn’t a primary contributor to any major villain defeat and he barely has a distinct personality.
In defense of the Goku never losing point, I think it might be referring more to power scalers than the actual story. The crowd who are like, "Goku beats x powerful character." I still don't agree with the point, but that's what I think they're referring to
Kid Buu. The fact that people still think he is stronger than buuhan when ssj3 Goku got his ass beat and was literally thinking about fusing with Hercule of all people until he felt Vegeta energy. To go from needing to fuse to playing paper scissors rock for the chance to fight kid Buu first should show you that he isn’t stronger than Buuhn.
Saying that Kid Buu is stronger than Buuhan is basically implying that Ssj3 Goku magically became stronger than base VEGITO 10 minutes after coming out of Super Buu
I think out of all the non Sayian characters Piccolo should’ve had a legit way of keeping up with the Super Sayian cause it seems like he peaked at Super Sayian 1 and just stopped
Yeah exactly, once he fused with kami, his strength peaked and all the saiyans kept getting stronger but now he’s in the same realm with orange piccolo
9:44 I hate to be that guy, but Goku didn’t lose here he won. He helped piccolo defeat Raditz he did not lose dying, does not equal losing. If your goal is to protect the earth and you kill the bad guy, but you die in the process, you won you achieved your goal of protecting the Earth.
What about Akkuman?🤔 Other than having a really cool ability he was even feared by Roshi literally the same guy that put out a Fire as big as a Mountain and later blew up the Moon it'd be cool if he returned as an anti-hero type of character or hell even Ledgic he's the og Hit and they teased use by saying one day he'll come back to challenge Goku and he never came back (btw i also agree on Ginyu and even add Guldo)
@@marioblaze2723 akkuman should comeback fr just make him one shot some evil super villain who tried to take over earth juat a joke mini arc i like that dude
@@JackRippa-bq9qo Well the closest thing we have to that Is him saving the earth from Mecha Frieza and his army and dad included in BT3 when i get my hands on Sparking Zero I'm gonna follow up that story like with the androids and Black
@@JackRippa-bq9qo While Ledgic could've been something greater but the writers decided not to use it like the rest of GT's good ideas well at least now we have Hit
@@marioblaze2723 i didn't even know who that is till i looked him up They fumbled so hard with gt Amazing ideas leading to bad stories but the ending waa good tho
saying broly doesn’t have a bag is definitely wild, especially if we’re talking about super. For the entirety of the time that he’s super saiyan and above, he’s got these random new shits falling out of his bag. He’s got chest blast unibeams, scatter arrows like uub, barriers, spirit bomb ass balls, mouth beams, ki infused punches, there’s just no way to say super broly doesn’t have a bag. i won’t get on here and say he has a bag like piccolo or anything, but sage saying he ain’t got nothing but wwe fades is definitely disingenuous.
Idk if this counts but to me the most overrated thing is this whole W or L thing that has been going around for about a year now, it’s no longer if this character is cool or if their character is good and well written it’s, oh how many Ls do they take, you can present an argument on why you think this character is the best but than someone will pull up and say “oh but they always lose” like bruh stfu. And I’ve noticed this has been happening a lot with vegeta and a few others and it’s kinda annoying.
Still though almost every single fight that ends a saga Goku is usually killed or saved by his friends. Which is completely fine! Because the entire point of Dragon Ball is strength comes from those who love and support you, your friends
I think this argument comes from this: GT takes place after the end of Z, and since Super is still building up to the End of Z arc, GT Goku would TECHNICALLY be stronger than Super Goku solely based on the fact GT Goku was still training (meaning he got Stronger).
Well it's implied that Goku basically becomes above fighting itself. Meaning he's reached a higher plane of existence. Like he actually became God. This would be the closest equivalent to the strange traveler Superman version of Goku. No real feats but we know he's him.
Vegeta has 2 clean wins over Goku. He won off screen Super Hero and he won the fight during the saiyan saga. Goku was left on the ground, paralyzed when Gohan, Krillin and eventually Yajarobe stepped in and defeated Vegeta. Goku is the one that hasn't defeated Vegeta clean.
The anticipation seeing goku die and seeing that piccolo was gonna have to train Gohan to piccolo dying for Gohan, after seeing the OG dragonball first in sequence as it came out, was absolute peak childhood.
The Goku take thing where a certain group of his fans think he never loses or ever be surpassed, (even if temporarily), is unfortunately true. I am not even referring to the "Does he beat Goku thou? or He can't beat Goku!" online takes. No I referring to anytime Goku could imply or lose the edge to struggle in a canon fight or spar. For instance most recently there were was a multiple day argument from Goku Fans that refused to believe that Beast Gohan had any advantage over MUI in Superhero Epilogue chapters. Despite the fact he was knocked out MUI back to Base, or that the official Shueisha and Toyotrao himself stating they were not holding back in their spar witheachother. Regardless they still refuse to believe and kept downplaying what happened.
U say goku needed to come back in the buu arc to find the future savior but he already found and was surpassed by gohan to be the next savior of earth it was unnecessary for him to find the next savior of earth goku coming back ruined dragon ball since cell.
Z Broly......he may not be the strongest nor he may not be the best written but i will die on the hill that he was one of the best spectacles ever produced in the DBZ movies so much so i scale him to Janemba in terms of flashiness and overall destructive nature and creativity. Hell i just like Z Broly alone because of his own design and character so much so i headcanon so many possibilities of his motivations and backstory being many many things other than just "Oh baby cry, he dont like that" i would even go so far as to use the Funimation dub tracks to add to his character as it perfectly explains Broly's feelings and undying hatred in the second movie while in the first it was a literal monster being unleashed that needed to be stopped.
Vegeta is definitely not the most overrated. He's the most complex character in the series, with the most internal conflict. Vegeta carries Dragon Ball writing.
You watch dragon ball abridged without watching original dragon ball.. he isn’t most complex character Stop lying he doesn’t care about his own people .. he literally killed his own friend napped the only thing he cared about is blabbering about his pride lol
The goku never loses is less referring to the series and more or less is for hypotheticals, people say he’s stronger than gohan who was stated to have surpassed him. People assumed “he could beat cell” and powerscaler dragon ball fans “Can he beat goku” goku is overrated by his fandom not a bad character until late buu saga
@@zetset57 Future Trunks is cool, especially post time chamber. But he does just whine and cry along with not winning anything. Then Super makes it even worse with rage and spirit sword. Adult Gohan (main timeline) is so beloved by people because they hope he goes back to teen Gonah days. And while yes conceptually he's the strongest non-fused character, he barely beat Dabura and that's about it. He let himself get captured and did what he did against Cell but towards a much more dangerous foe. Future adult Gohan has a better mentality, more fight, and is more intelligent, is just a weaker vessel.
@@suivatra123 Hmmm it not so simple. Let's start that SSJ rage is filler, in manga the story is little different. Manga version is better yes but to be honest Trunks deserved for some new power, it was his saga and he is hybrid saiyan he should not be the weakling. But anime did this "power up" in wrong way so I understand you a little. But you watched Super Hero saga? Gohan is super strong again. If you not watched I recommend manga version.
@@zetset57SSJ Rage is not filler. The anime is not an adaption of the manga, and at that time, the anime was ahead of the manga. Both anime and manga are canonical material, they are just two separate continuities.
@@nivnavion Ahead = canon? Then DBZ Broly is canon and DBS Broly is filler or they both canon🤡 super argument How they both canon if they have differences lmao? If someone say sun is a planet and other one say it's star, for you they both are right? Anime is Toei abomination, manga is Akira Toriyama stuff. Even if anime was earlier it's change nothing. Toei was speak with Akira but they not did exactly what his vision was... the manga version is exactly what he wanted.
So, in the comment section of a post from another db TH-camr, someone claimed that Goku Black is a trash, overrated villain because he is a “Walmart version of Baby” and isn’t better than Cell and Frieza. I need you to debunk this hot take.
my question is why ssj4 gogeta never used soul punisher or stardust breaker which ever way you say it on omega shenron, the entire point of the move is to wipe out all evil of the target, so using that on omega just solves the problem. Ig this is a case of the villain having plot armor.
Unlike Janemba, who as ALL of hells souls combined into one (GOOD) body, Omega is just Evil Energy. So, I think Soul Punisher only works if the enemy has some good in them. For example, Janemba himelf wass pure evil, but that kid that he "Possessed" had a good heart, so he was the result of the Soul Punisher taking away the evil energy. Omega, although, has no good at all. So, Soul Punisher had no Evil to extract from Good. Idk though.
@@Meelow-jp8lb then in super dragon ball heros, gogeta blue uses it on hearts who is a being of complete evil, when he move was used he was completely defeated leaving nothing behind, also there is some good in omega sheron (technically) being the dragon balls, using theoretically could remove all the negative energy from the dragon balls reverting them back to their original form.
Vegeta Trunks Beerus Z broly King piccolo Are the characters for me(I don't hate these characters but ppl will act like these characters are either more complex than they actually are or dont recognize the low lights of the characters)
Super Broly’s overrated to me he’s not menacing, he has near no dialogue, he’s just a boring autistic 40 year old virgin cry baby who’s somehow able to jump to the level of gods despite never being in a actual fight in his life. The only reason people like him is because they took out the hating Goku crying plot other than that he has the same exact story
Vegeta is overrated in the sense that people think he has the best character arc in fiction. Vegeta should be credited though because calling a character a "Vegeta" is short hand for a villain turned reluctant hero/rival archetype.
Personal choice, Frieza. He was amazing in the namek saga, I don't need this guy just coming back just to be fan service and do massive ass pulls just to stay strong, give us new characters. Probably a more widely acceptable choice? Probably Krillin and Tien. Either or, we don't need them to keep coming back just to sand bag an episode or 2 into an arc, we know they are weak, they know they are weak, somehow we are still getting these guys thrown into stuff like the ToP with the pretense of knowing they are going to do absolutely nothing or make such little difference they shouldn't have even been in the damn thing to begin with.
Goku lost to Raditz, Vegeta 2x, Cell, Buu, Hit 2x, Technically Goku Black and Jiren. What are we on about. I also forgot about android 19, and in the manga he does lost to moro, but beats him later. Can't speak on granolah arc. You could also debatably say he lost to Goku last chapter
Saying goku is “undefeated” is an extremely telling sign that you never watched z fully let alone og db.
its the classic “i dont watch the show but i know the mc is the most popular so ima shit on him for no reason cuz im different”
"dragon ball fans dont even watch their own show" 💀
tbf dragon ball fans can't read
I think they were talking about in Vs Debates against other characters from other franchises, but I could be wrong
Goku lost many times but he is still Mary Sue
Back in the day, SSJ4 Gogeta felt great as a pure fuck you character to the strongest villain at the time being Omega. It’s just DBS Broly came along. But all Gogeta’s are just goated
for sure
Facts
@animationstudiosa we shouldn't swear brother
@@randomrave6635 Homie, swearing is normal
Gogeta over Vegito
When someone says Goku is overrated cause he never loses, it tells me all I need to know about them lol. Just tell me you never watched/read Dragon Ball and move on 😂
To be fair there are the guys who say can he beat Goku or he's strongest in fiction when he isn't but I see both sides to this
Right Goku got curb stomped in DragonBal. Roshi, Yamcha, Tien, General Tao, Piccolo, all whooped him. Lol
Frieza whooped him. Buu . Cell. Each villan had whooped him. Jiren scraped him across the hardest material in the universe multiple times and killed him to get mui lmao
@@NOT-hm6hw fax
@@NOT-hm6hw hell without the heart virus the androids would've cooked him in a fight
Fun fact: In the Japanese Dub of the Z Broly movie Paragus explained that Broly actually sensed Goku's power when he first arrived on the trap planet/New Planet Vegeta (Specifically in the scene where they were sizing each other up and everything faded to black except for them and their auras.) and that caused his saiyan instincts to go out of control which made him see Goku as a powerful opponent he wanted to fight and kill, the crying had nothing to do with it. He says quote, "Could it be Kakarrot? Does this mean that Broly's instincts as a saiyan have been awakened by Kakarrots power, and he is starting to overcome my mind control?"
Also in the JP dub he only knows Goku's saiyan name because Vegeta said it right in front of Broly. Broly also only starts remembering Goku right when he is defeated. Also for people who keep misreading my comment, Broly didn’t get his saiyan instincts unlocked until he sensed Goku as an adult, Baby Goku had nothing to do with it!
As a Vegeta fan, I 100% agree with your perspective especially because my brother is a Vegeta fan and he's on the annoying side of the spectrum.
Yeah I just hope Sage knows there is a large portion of Vegeta fans that know exactly who he’s talking about and we think those stans are doing too much too
Some vegeta fans are wild, but they do have some validity to their statements
Future trunks is the Derrick Rose of DBZ. He just had one arc but idc he still him
Hot take, I like Trunks in the Super anime more than in Z. Which is saying alot because I love Z Trunks.
One saga***
Vegeta is a great character, he is NOT a complex character
His development is extremely simple & well put together. Like Sage said, Vegeta fans do tend to gas him up way more than is deserved, but it's because of how often he gets cheated out of getting a meaningful W. I'll always love Vegeta, hoping one day he gets the dub he deserves for the years of hard work.
This🙏
Wrong. Compared to other dragon ball characters, vegeta is definitely the most complex and its not even close
@@alatusedits I feel like Piccolo is just a little better in my opinion
@@Eggs543 Piccolo's good too. But vegeta's development was done across three arcs and executed better. It was more fleshed out compared to Piccolo who's development happened off screen with training gohan
@@alatuseditsNah.
GT the series is carried by the video games.
- Dragon Ball GT fan. As a fan of the series and everything before and even if GT is lack luster as a series I still love it.
“Trunks does live off of cool design.”
He totally does. He had the greatest character introduction in dragon ball and it was easily one of the most iconic anime scenes of its time. He was a great character in Z and I like his personality and concept. I appreciate that he is the only saiyan out of the main 4 saiyans (android saga) who wasn’t battle hungry or bloodthirsty. He clearly has ptsd from his future and its made him practical, cautious, and conflict avoidant. I like that he fulfills a much more relatable role than goku or Vegeta the same way gohan does. They prefer pacifism to battle but Trunks just wants to live a modest life in peace and never gives into his anger the way gohan did against cell.
They bring back characters like trunks because of the coolness factor. It’s the same with broly, vegito, and gogeta. They brought back 17 for the exact same reason as trunks. 17 had an amazing and iconic design for the time the same way trunks does. They both float on the rule of cool. I think that’s also the same reason they ended up giving 17 an amazing role in DB super. 17 actually had a cool personality in Z that differed from 17 in super. Z 17 had pride in his strength and he loved fighting, that’s why he and piccolo brawled it out in such a long, awesome, and drawn out fight. 17 in DB super comes across as much more mature and he’s a very smart fighter. Trunks already had a great character arc in Z and as much as I like future trunks, he didn’t need to some back in super. They only did it because he’s a popular character. I think 17 returning was handled much better and they didn’t make him a Gary Stu the way they made trunks. Future Trunks could’ve came back at some point but for me, he was ruined in the goku black arc.
…Although I’d much prefer they focused on making kid trunks and goten good and relevant character instead of future trunks, who is literally THE SAME person as present time period trunks. Kid trunks has a much more likable personality compared to future trunks. Future trunks being a naive pacifist makes no sense to me because of how hellish his life has been. Future trunks should be more like future gohan, who felt like a real warrior from a post-apocalyptic future. Future trunks’s personality is too whiny and idealistic for how mentally scarred he is. Living in that future would’ve realistically made trunks way more cynical and nihilistic (at least a little bit). I think that’s part of why trunks’s rage power-up felt so absurd in super. Trunks just isn’t THAT GUY and we shouldn’t pretend he is.
Eh, i can kinda see your Ssj4 Gogeta take. The episode itself didn't have him do much, but tbh GT as an Anime in general was rough when it came to ya know, the actual animation...
Good thing the games are most of his legacy, lol. I aint excluding all that. GT birthed him but the games raised him, i'd be crazy to exclude all that
Exactly
@@kermitgotthesickkicks4265 to the games, they're also specifically a Ssj4 Gogeta thing. Ssj and Blue Gogeta don't have that aura in the games that Ssj4 has, they never have. so including the games specifically for Ssj4 should be fine since they're so connected
The thing is, you can’t say this and like vegito, who does the same thing twice
NIce topic Sage. I think best fight in the series could be another good one
Z Broly is a super cool design btw just had a lot of fanatics that were brain dead when trying to debate them
Finally talks about gogeta W
17:14 Most overrated is future trunks. Hes got no significant dub unless he needed to either go back in time and beat someone weaker then him like king cold and freiza or go back in time to get help from his father or goku or have them train him. And dont get us started on ssj rage, which literally, makes no sense as to how he got it, how its strong enough to hang with people he was getting washed by just 2 episodes prior, and its just a dumb overrated power up that makes no sense
I think it's similar to how people like gogeta let's be honest most people choose their favorite character on who they think looks the coolest
He went back during the time before Goku's heart disease was developing and ssj rage was filler.
I can obviously see why but he is not the most overrated when you count any other fusions.
His biggest dub is saving the main timeline.
@@box4467SSJ rage isn’t filler. The anime isn’t an adaptation of the manga and is equally as canon to the manga, they are both just different continuities.
SSJ rage is very real.
Vegito is the Sonic of Dragon Ball change my mind
I kinda agree with you actually.
elaborate
Vegito just has a Sonic vibe to him that fits so well @@Jhxze
Ye his ocean dub voice sounded like sonic and he also has a line in dragon ball fighterz where he said "JUST LOOK AT MY SPEEEED 😝!"
@@loth-alda yeah u right
14:13 not only did he not beat Hit, he also died to him after being hiring Hit to kill him
“What anime main character can you envision losing?”
*stares at yuji*
Vegeta is the best shit talker
Piccolo has the deepest bag ngl
most complex character of the show? Piccolo unironically has a good case imo
Vegeta
Piccolo @@alatusedits
@@DerriousGamezPiccogeta Son
or Vegetalo Daughter?
Vegeta sometimes is trash talking kid
Piccolo is always sigma
Vegeta talk the best shit, but the problem is he end up eating his words too often.
I think everyone gets the gist but I'm gonna say it anyways. I feel like the Goku glaze comes from everyone knowing that his _spirit_ is undefeatable, rather than he himself being undefeatable. He's at his best when he can get back up and find a way to stand his ground. Sage was going through them already but I wanna list them out for all the people who forget.
- Lost to Jackie Chun
- Lost against Mercenary Tao
- Lost to Tien
- Got curbstomped by Piccolo _and_ his son (even though he won both fights)
- Died to Raditz
- Lost the 1v1 against Vegeta
- Lost to Ginyu
- Got tossed by Frieza til he turned Super Saiyan. Even then he still couldn't _kill_ Frieza.
- Got the space 'rona (Heart Virus) even with the medicine Trunks gave him
- Couldn't even beat Cell and knew this good and well
- Died against Cell
- Got caught lackin by Majin Vegeta
- Got tossed by Kid Buu (even though he won)
"But can they beat Goku tho" is nothing more than a meme lol
You forgot Yamcha pal.
We need more dragon ball multiverse!!!!!
3:46 “Kinda like Vegeta” 💀💀💀
Sage im pretty sure when that guy said you have goku fans think he never lose a fight he was talking about how ever time a new anime character comes out it does he beat goku and then they fight you on it
I’m just going to put this in your mind, there’s no reason for it though.
Chiaotzu wipes out the entirety of planet vegeta
Btw Sage if you wanna fuck with Vegeta fans again you could point out the filler episodes in DBS where he was sucking on a pacifier cause he could disappear or whatever
Vegeta suffers from the same thing as Jason Todd, the writers won’t let his character advance because he is “too good” at being a bad guy/foil for another character. Just sad to see
Vegeta is like little Malfoy but helping like Harry Potter... Idk what the hell is this and WHY people love this character 💀
@@zetset57 I used to like him a lot more, but the more I listen to TSO, the more I kinda see his point lol
@@zetset57because vegeta's the best written
@@alatusedits I farted
30:55 god this is reminding me of last stream
vegeta fans make people hate on vegeta more imo, nobody hates vegeta but his fans take it so far that u have to shit on vegeta to shut em up😂
I don’t think Vegeta is overrated. He is still the second best handled character in the series and we can’t act like it’s not close. And for all the love he gets we can’t act like there isn’t a hate boner some fans have for him bc he keeps losing. In my eyes that somewhat offsets the dumb glazers
Vegeta act like a rich little kid(hmm maybe Malfoy), sometimes even like a clown(anime). He is one of the worst character or was because in Moro, Granolah and Super Hero Vegeta is very okay.
@@zetset57 “and Goku is a fight sexual with no regard for the earth and a painful level of naïveté”. You see how if we make sweeping statements based on there worst traits we can make anyone look bad.
@@zetset57 my whole point is that for every primitive vegeta fan there is a primitive vegeta hater and u have proved that with this comment🤷🏾♂️.
Real. Vegeta's the best written character in the series
I think the whole goku is "undefeated" thing is because of "Can he beat goku tho" and the popularity of super and MUI
Goku been losing more than he wins
Gohan beat Cell with two punches - Lol that wasn't a fight 😂😂
Z Broly just has that menace
If you want to find hundreds or even thousands of fanboys that think Goku never loses, look no further than the comment section of any video about Goku vs Superman or Goku vs Saitama.
I don't know what people expected Vegito to do against an immortal being
Gogeta fans can’t read or watch vegito fights 😂
The thing is, Goku takes Ls, but Vegeta takes whoopins more than Ls lol
Another take I have is that Nerfing the fusion timers is stupid. It’s the reason ssj4 Gogeta got shafted, and the same reason Vegito got shafted in super. If you were already nerfing Vegito to an hour with the explanation, but basically cutting that time it half like ssj4 Gogeta is stupid.
Most overrated for me is definitely Z Broly from all 3 of his movies, he went 1/3 and that 1 movie just gave him cool fight scenes and moments, nothing really good story wise. But I feel like most people agree with that
Mate that's all dragon ball z movies before wrath of the dragon
Z Broly was a very early villain. They’re not gonna just write him with this incredible arc, characterization, or depth. Z broly was just supposed to be a regular movie villain but he had such an interesting concept and great character design, so he ended up being super popular. I always thought Z broly was cool for the same reason I like kid buu. They both feel like these primal forces of nature rather than actual characters with personality and depth. Sometimes I think that can be a very interesting concept for a villain.
If u count goku losing to frieza cause he let his guard down and get shot in back , then he lost to majin vegeta when he turned his back
7:38 hey man I made the video 😃
well your opinion was fucking dog shit
Let’s be honest, if Goku truly lost the fights he lost, then Earth would’ve been gone, and unlike the Buu saga and Resurrection F, never brought back.
Goku and Piccolo vs Raditz is an example of Goku losing a fight?
No, a better moment would be against Jackie Chun or even against cell. Heck Vegeta won against goku in superhero
My favorite one sided fight is Vegeta Krillin and Gohan Vs Recoome. it's really great character development for Gohan dispite him getting wiped out AND MIND YOU this is a FOUR YEAR OLD!! VS A FULL GROWN SPACE MERCENARY MAN! gohan got his neak snaped, and pulled through it all, then went to survive against and at times overwelm friezas lower forms briefly. I'm a say it Kid Gohan was goated
The idea of a four year old getting his neck broken and suffering the beating of his life by a giant half naked alien with teeth missing the way recoome did is legitimate horror. Dbz had some terrifying moments and the recoome fight is an underrated one
Im sorry man but in OG DB frieza is just an absolute moron with a lot of power. I really dont understand where the Frieza is intelligent thing actually came from because it certainly isnt shown in the namek arc. Seriously, name 1 actually intelligent thing he does in the entire namek arc. He trolled his own saga harder than any other character in dragon ball ever did, and that is a VERY high hurdle to pass, and, unlike the other characters, he doesn't even have a real reason to do so.
His motivations are also super inconsistent throughout, first he is happy that he found someone who could physically challenge him outside of his immediate family, then, a couple chapters later, he starts complaining that goku hit him once. He commits gennocide on an enormously profitable race for him out of fear of the super saiyan, then proceeds to allow every single opportunity for the two strongest saiyans he ever met to grow even stronger.
Saying you like him better than Cell I can understand, stating Frieza is an objectively better character is just insanity. That brat is all charm no depth.
i do agree super broly has more character story depth but do i think Z broly is better? absolutely, the pure idea of something like "the legendary super sayian" being a unbelieavably strong 100% character is amazing.
Also i feel like broly has to die stronger than the rest when he does becuase if anybody gets a form stronger than the legendary super sayian form... now it feels not impressive
Unrelated to the video, you ever thought about uploading full reactions to series on patreon? Multiple TH-camrs do it to avoid copyright
I live DBZ but I see plenty of fanboys that talk about Goku like hes untouchable.
Think this happens most with the crossover fan matches (Saitama, Superman)
Pitting Goku against Superman literally is one of those matches that heavily relies on WHICH Superman we're talking about, that's why it's so easy for people to say Goku solos, or Superman sweeps.
Half the points against the characters that are apparently overrated, are just about their win-loss record or their overall involvement in the defeat of the main villain, but nothing about their actual personality or characters. Trunks is loved not because he wins all of his fights. But because he comes from a tragic future and yet he's still able to find hope. He's an extremely polite person with a good heart and wants to protect his loved ones. And he shows no mercy to his enemies and seeks to end his fights as quickly as possible.
I often see people bringing up how he's stupid because of Super Saiyan grade 3 which in my opinion people confuse character flaws with flawed writing. Trunk's whole focus is to get stronger to protect the future. So his training would focus on immediately seeing results in boosting his power. He's not a fighting genius like Goku or Vegeta. He's a guy who's had to learn everything on the fly in order to survive. And I like the fact that his loss against Cell doesn't end in a big beam clash or anything, it just ends with Trunks looking dejected and realizing his mistake. Yeah sure maybe he doesn't get a big moment during the final fight with Cell, but his character is never ruined because of it. And his satisfying payoff is us getting to see him completely demolish the Androids and Imperfect Cell.
And even in super despite the fact that he's involved in a lot of bad writing, I don't hate his character. I'm just not a fan of his design or the fact that his entire happy ending in Z gets completely shat on. Also can we stop with the Trunks and Mai relationship? Like does anyone enjoy that?
Not gonna lie, the Goku take was pseudo correct. If you’ve been on the internet for an unhealthy amount of time, you’ll find a lot of people trying to give Goku this insane KD ratio against other fictional characters. In context of the series itself, the tweet doesn’t make a lot of sense (also poorly worded). But when you take the context of the internet and people on it, it starts to make sense.
I don’t necessarily agree with that take, but I can see “why” Goku is overrated in their eyes. KEYWORDS: WHY, and IN THEIR EYES.
Edit: Also the word "overrated" has almost lost all its meaning over the years. So it is hard to identify what is and isn't overrated.
It doesn’t help that in the context that they are putting goku in .. he would win. So it’s people who says “ goku always win “ but they put him against people he would beat so it doesn’t help their case.
Thank you someone actually said it, the amount goku solos or goku is gokuversal is actually insane
Super gogeta been my goat since the day I saw the movie just off of how cool he looked to me my second favorite character and dragon ball is ssbkk goku
Super 17 and “Super” 17…
I don’t know why whenever I see people talking about them they gas them up to an obnoxious degree
If you see Super 17 (From GT) being "gassed" you're in the trenches of the internet. I see people that like him, sure, but most people generally consider Super 17 the worst GT villain.
People gas gt 17?
Vegeta ans Piccolo have a bag because they never used the same move twice in the original run of Dragon Ball and Z. Every opportunity they had to fight someone, they busted out a new move.
The lazy writers of Super had Piccolo and Vegeta spamming special beam canon and galick gun respectively.
You right, it's crazy how Goku who is not so smart have many many techniqes and Piccolo few at most. They not gave him techniqes but also stole some like Light Grenade.
I dont think using their signature techniques a lot is a case of lazy writing tbh. Its a staple for anime.
11:29 he got his ass beat by jenemba as well😭
And all the other movie villains before the finale
Trunk lives off of great character design and killing Frieza in the coldest way possible.
Super Trunks ain't sh*t though.
28:55 lil me thought Trunks was the coolest fictional character ever. The jacket, the sword, the boots.
Weaving signs for his jutsu.
The action figure that came with the time machine.
He was untouchable.
Adult me was very disappointed by Super Trunks, and even kid trunks.
GT trunks is dead to me.
Forget about OvereatedMy goat Hercule is Underrated he should've been the MC
I'm always missing these types of streams, damnit 😭
They are so late fr
As much as it pains me to say it… Trunks has to be the right answer. He isn’t a primary contributor to any major villain defeat and he barely has a distinct personality.
Mecha Frieza:
Future Androids:
I just finished rewatching the buu saga and what sage said I 100% agree with
In defense of the Goku never losing point, I think it might be referring more to power scalers than the actual story. The crowd who are like, "Goku beats x powerful character."
I still don't agree with the point, but that's what I think they're referring to
Kid Buu. The fact that people still think he is stronger than buuhan when ssj3 Goku got his ass beat and was literally thinking about fusing with Hercule of all people until he felt Vegeta energy. To go from needing to fuse to playing paper scissors rock for the chance to fight kid Buu first should show you that he isn’t stronger than Buuhn.
Saying that Kid Buu is stronger than Buuhan is basically implying that Ssj3 Goku magically became stronger than base VEGITO 10 minutes after coming out of Super Buu
@@marioblaze2723cursing makes your statement sound cringe for some reason, but you're completely right in everyway.
@@Meelow-jp8lb My bad let me fix it
I think out of all the non Sayian characters Piccolo should’ve had a legit way of keeping up with the Super Sayian cause it seems like he peaked at Super Sayian 1 and just stopped
Yeah exactly, once he fused with kami, his strength peaked and all the saiyans kept getting stronger but now he’s in the same realm with orange piccolo
9:44 I hate to be that guy, but Goku didn’t lose here he won. He helped piccolo defeat Raditz he did not lose dying, does not equal losing. If your goal is to protect the earth and you kill the bad guy, but you die in the process, you won you achieved your goal of protecting the Earth.
Forget about overrated i think the most underrated character in db is CAPTAIN GINYU
What about Akkuman?🤔 Other than having a really cool ability he was even feared by Roshi literally the same guy that put out a Fire as big as a Mountain and later blew up the Moon it'd be cool if he returned as an anti-hero type of character or hell even Ledgic he's the og Hit and they teased use by saying one day he'll come back to challenge Goku and he never came back (btw i also agree on Ginyu and even add Guldo)
@@marioblaze2723 akkuman should comeback fr just make him one shot some evil super villain who tried to take over earth juat a joke mini arc i like that dude
@@JackRippa-bq9qo Well the closest thing we have to that Is him saving the earth from Mecha Frieza and his army and dad included in BT3 when i get my hands on Sparking Zero I'm gonna follow up that story like with the androids and Black
@@JackRippa-bq9qo While Ledgic could've been something greater but the writers decided not to use it like the rest of GT's good ideas well at least now we have Hit
@@marioblaze2723 i didn't even know who that is till i looked him up
They fumbled so hard with gt
Amazing ideas leading to bad stories but the ending waa good tho
saying broly doesn’t have a bag is definitely wild, especially if we’re talking about super.
For the entirety of the time that he’s super saiyan and above, he’s got these random new shits falling out of his bag. He’s got chest blast unibeams, scatter arrows like uub, barriers, spirit bomb ass balls, mouth beams, ki infused punches, there’s just no way to say super broly doesn’t have a bag. i won’t get on here and say he has a bag like piccolo or anything, but sage saying he ain’t got nothing but wwe fades is definitely disingenuous.
bro has to stop using the same face expressions over and over😭🙏🏽🙏🏽
Idk if this counts but to me the most overrated thing is this whole W or L thing that has been going around for about a year now, it’s no longer if this character is cool or if their character is good and well written it’s, oh how many Ls do they take, you can present an argument on why you think this character is the best but than someone will pull up and say “oh but they always lose” like bruh stfu. And I’ve noticed this has been happening a lot with vegeta and a few others and it’s kinda annoying.
0:19 - tbf... he won that fight. He just died
Still though almost every single fight that ends a saga Goku is usually killed or saved by his friends. Which is completely fine! Because the entire point of Dragon Ball is strength comes from those who love and support you, your friends
Putting Black in top 3 is crazy
Most overrated Dragon Ball character gotta be End Of GT Goku, has zero statements and feats but GT fans will say he solos Super.
Yeah he may have become one with the Dragon Balls and now he may be able to grant wishes but we have no idea how strong he became
(disclaimer: this is from a neutral view) he and his power are supposed to be mysterious for a reason
I think this argument comes from this: GT takes place after the end of Z, and since Super is still building up to the End of Z arc, GT Goku would TECHNICALLY be stronger than Super Goku solely based on the fact GT Goku was still training (meaning he got Stronger).
Well it's implied that Goku basically becomes above fighting itself. Meaning he's reached a higher plane of existence. Like he actually became God. This would be the closest equivalent to the strange traveler Superman version of Goku. No real feats but we know he's him.
Vegeta has 2 clean wins over Goku.
He won off screen Super Hero and he won the fight during the saiyan saga. Goku was left on the ground, paralyzed when Gohan, Krillin and eventually Yajarobe stepped in and defeated Vegeta.
Goku is the one that hasn't defeated Vegeta clean.
You are right
I watched the original dragonball, Z, and GT series as it aired on tv as a kid. Piccolo is to be respected
The anticipation seeing goku die and seeing that piccolo was gonna have to train Gohan to piccolo dying for Gohan, after seeing the OG dragonball first in sequence as it came out, was absolute peak childhood.
I wouldn’t say hes most overrated but i got cooler up there only good thing abt him was his designs
The Goku take thing where a certain group of his fans think he never loses or ever be surpassed, (even if temporarily), is unfortunately true. I am not even referring to the "Does he beat Goku thou? or He can't beat Goku!" online takes. No I referring to anytime Goku could imply or lose the edge to struggle in a canon fight or spar. For instance most recently there were was a multiple day argument from Goku Fans that refused to believe that Beast Gohan had any advantage over MUI in Superhero Epilogue chapters. Despite the fact he was knocked out MUI back to Base, or that the official Shueisha and Toyotrao himself stating they were not holding back in their spar witheachother. Regardless they still refuse to believe and kept downplaying what happened.
U say goku needed to come back in the buu arc to find the future savior but he already found and was surpassed by gohan to be the next savior of earth it was unnecessary for him to find the next savior of earth goku coming back ruined dragon ball since cell.
Z Broly......he may not be the strongest nor he may not be the best written but i will die on the hill that he was one of the best spectacles ever produced in the DBZ movies so much so i scale him to Janemba in terms of flashiness and overall destructive nature and creativity. Hell i just like Z Broly alone because of his own design and character so much so i headcanon so many possibilities of his motivations and backstory being many many things other than just "Oh baby cry, he dont like that" i would even go so far as to use the Funimation dub tracks to add to his character as it perfectly explains Broly's feelings and undying hatred in the second movie while in the first it was a literal monster being unleashed that needed to be stopped.
Whats with all the beeping?
11:57 Goku’s literally died more than any other character in the series
Vegeta is definitely not the most overrated. He's the most complex character in the series, with the most internal conflict.
Vegeta carries Dragon Ball writing.
Bro riding Vegeta meat more than Bulma could dream. Need to summon Shenron to remove him from it.
You watch dragon ball abridged without watching original dragon ball.. he isn’t most complex character Stop lying he doesn’t care about his own people .. he literally killed his own friend napped the only thing he cared about is blabbering about his pride lol
@@sethdavis2506fax
@@sethdavis2506cope
@@Anos-voldigoad549bro thinks you can't have complexity if you'd been evil lol
The goku never loses is less referring to the series and more or less is for hypotheticals, people say he’s stronger than gohan who was stated to have surpassed him. People assumed “he could beat cell” and powerscaler dragon ball fans “Can he beat goku” goku is overrated by his fandom not a bad character until late buu saga
Most Overrated is between 4 characters. Future Trunks, Adult Gohan, Goku, or Vegeta. Honorable mentions are Gogeta, Vegito, Broly (either one)
Why Future Trunks or Adult Gohan are overrated? :O
@@zetset57 Future Trunks is cool, especially post time chamber. But he does just whine and cry along with not winning anything. Then Super makes it even worse with rage and spirit sword.
Adult Gohan (main timeline) is so beloved by people because they hope he goes back to teen Gonah days. And while yes conceptually he's the strongest non-fused character, he barely beat Dabura and that's about it. He let himself get captured and did what he did against Cell but towards a much more dangerous foe. Future adult Gohan has a better mentality, more fight, and is more intelligent, is just a weaker vessel.
@@suivatra123 Hmmm it not so simple. Let's start that SSJ rage is filler, in manga the story is little different. Manga version is better yes but to be honest Trunks deserved for some new power, it was his saga and he is hybrid saiyan he should not be the weakling. But anime did this "power up" in wrong way so I understand you a little.
But you watched Super Hero saga? Gohan is super strong again. If you not watched I recommend manga version.
@@zetset57SSJ Rage is not filler. The anime is not an adaption of the manga, and at that time, the anime was ahead of the manga. Both anime and manga are canonical material, they are just two separate continuities.
@@nivnavion Ahead = canon? Then DBZ Broly is canon and DBS Broly is filler or they both canon🤡 super argument
How they both canon if they have differences lmao? If someone say sun is a planet and other one say it's star, for you they both are right? Anime is Toei abomination, manga is Akira Toriyama stuff. Even if anime was earlier it's change nothing. Toei was speak with Akira but they not did exactly what his vision was... the manga version is exactly what he wanted.
Piccolo did the villain to hero more complex and better Imo
As a super Saiyan 4 gogeta fan i agree with that take sadly its kinda Tru
So, in the comment section of a post from another db TH-camr, someone claimed that Goku Black is a trash, overrated villain because he is a “Walmart version of Baby” and isn’t better than Cell and Frieza. I need you to debunk this hot take.
Just a tiny repost.
my question is why ssj4 gogeta never used soul punisher or stardust breaker which ever way you say it on omega shenron, the entire point of the move is to wipe out all evil of the target, so using that on omega just solves the problem. Ig this is a case of the villain having plot armor.
Unlike Janemba, who as ALL of hells souls combined into one (GOOD) body, Omega is just Evil Energy. So, I think Soul Punisher only works if the enemy has some good in them. For example, Janemba himelf wass pure evil, but that kid that he "Possessed" had a good heart, so he was the result of the Soul Punisher taking away the evil energy. Omega, although, has no good at all. So, Soul Punisher had no Evil to extract from Good. Idk though.
@@Meelow-jp8lb then in super dragon ball heros, gogeta blue uses it on hearts who is a being of complete evil, when he move was used he was completely defeated leaving nothing behind, also there is some good in omega sheron (technically) being the dragon balls, using theoretically could remove all the negative energy from the dragon balls reverting them back to their original form.
Vegeta
Trunks
Beerus
Z broly
King piccolo
Are the characters for me(I don't hate these characters but ppl will act like these characters are either more complex than they actually are or dont recognize the low lights of the characters)
Super Broly’s overrated to me he’s not menacing, he has near no dialogue, he’s just a boring autistic 40 year old virgin cry baby who’s somehow able to jump to the level of gods despite never being in a actual fight in his life. The only reason people like him is because they took out the hating Goku crying plot other than that he has the same exact story
Give it some more time and goku black will be the new broly but it'll be about everything except his power. He'll be the cell of super.
Vegeta is overrated in the sense that people think he has the best character arc in fiction.
Vegeta should be credited though because calling a character a "Vegeta" is short hand for a villain turned reluctant hero/rival archetype.
Bardok is overrated is absolute cap but only cause the granolah arc dropped...otherwise it's a point of debate for sure.
Love ❤️ SS4 Goku
Most Overrated Characters go to:
Gogeta (SSJ4) And Z Broly easily.
goku my main man but vageta did win that 1st altercation gohan and krillin cleaned him up with the help of the fat man of course
Hey did you read dragon ball kakumei i highly reccomend it
super saiyan 4 goku is the only one that matters, as it should be
Personal choice, Frieza. He was amazing in the namek saga, I don't need this guy just coming back just to be fan service and do massive ass pulls just to stay strong, give us new characters.
Probably a more widely acceptable choice? Probably Krillin and Tien. Either or, we don't need them to keep coming back just to sand bag an episode or 2 into an arc, we know they are weak, they know they are weak, somehow we are still getting these guys thrown into stuff like the ToP with the pretense of knowing they are going to do absolutely nothing or make such little difference they shouldn't have even been in the damn thing to begin with.
Omar need to drop the Star Wars video
Goku lost to Raditz, Vegeta 2x, Cell, Buu, Hit 2x, Technically Goku Black and Jiren. What are we on about.
I also forgot about android 19, and in the manga he does lost to moro, but beats him later. Can't speak on granolah arc. You could also debatably say he lost to Goku last chapter
Everytime you use Kai or something other than Oceandub and Funimation, an Angel loses its wings. 😒
You should make a series reacting to the fan manga of ultra vegito by ARJ
For me it's Gohan. How many times do you have to relearn the same lesson?
Well we know it’s not Mr. Popo
I mean, he’s Mr. Popo 🗿
I know Future Trunks cut through Babidi and Deborrah swiftly
Ngl… SSJ4 Gogeta was only introduced in the anime just to spread positive energy on the earth.