I’m a hunter and I’m with you here; if I was bow hunting and a pack of hounds came by and ruined my hunt, I’d be upset. Rinella showed no regard for private property rights with these comments. Many hunters are not fond of hound hunters.
@@dualthreatoutdoors Kind of with you on that. Like.. how isn't it relevant? It's literally the whole issue XD. Hound hunting disrupting the activities of others because of the lack of control of the dogs and disrespecting private property rights. Hell, I think there have even been incidents of hound hunting dogs attacking hunters. At very least hikers and other people's dogs have been attacked. The current state of hound hunting is downright malicious and dangerous.
It amazes me that people so brazenly misrepresent your argument when you have the entire argument recorded. It is easily verified these people are misrepresenting it.
They are simply lazy and trust biased people. And controversial content gets more clicks - for the podcast as well as for the videos. While I trust Morgan that he worries about his property and is mission, I don't know about this other dude with significant followership on old media.
I mean, when the southern states seceded they all wrote letters explicitly saying it was to protect the institution of slavery but tons of people are totally happy to ignore the physical evidence & say it was about ANYTHING else. The willfully ignorant don't need FACTS, they have their FEELINGS!
It's like the Meat Eater crew has no research division. Now that is outdated. Doing any kind of news without someone fact checking you basically makes you Fox News.
As a hunter who regularly hunts public land. It’s fairly easy with todays tech to stay away from and off private land without the landowner posting signs everywhere. I’m a meat eater fan but I have to side with a landowners right to prohibit hunting activity on said land. I don’t let people park in my driveway because they have a valid DL lol. It should be our responsibility as hunters to know where we are. As for hounds that’s another can of worms. I don’t use them so I couldn’t speak about it other than I’ve had hunts on public land get sabotaged by another hunters dogs but thats part of the public land game have to work around it.
I dont get why some people, definitely a minority among hunters, think they have a right to hunt on private land without the owners permission. I could understand someone wanting to pursue a wounded animal you shot in a legal area onto private land, the animal is likely to die anyways, but even then it's pretty iffy. With modern tech any responsible hunter will figure out the boundaries they can hunt well ahead of time, even amateurs do this much less hunting guides. There are quite a few "hunting guides" who claim to be professionals who are in reality just amateurs who want to be paid to go hunting and dont really have a clue of what they're doing and they absolutely need to be called out when they break laws or common sense. When you hunt with dogs its no different then any other area of life with a dog: they're your responsibility and you have to make sure they follow basic rules and they need to be well trained for the job, and if they break any rules you're 100% responsible for that. I've got a rottweiler, I made sure she's well trained to go hiking through the woods off leash, but if she were to go onto private property or bite someone that would be my responsibility, i cant just shrug my shoulders and claim its not my fault for not watching her, not training her, and bringing her where she didnt belong. Hunting dogs arent really any different, there are strict laws in place governing their use and it's the owners responsibility to watch over them.
Yeah there's apps that show everybody's approximate lot lines these days right? When I was a teenager you just had to try your luck. Wander around the woods till you found a sign lol
The issue seems to be that the Hounders have twisted the story immensely to try and save face. They know they're the ones in the wrong. They know they messed up by having no control of their dogs on someone elses property. While I do disagree with trying to stop hound hunting in the state I am 100% behind you when it comes to you telling hunters that "No, They are not allowed to hunt on your property" The only solution I can think of is to somehow get the real story out there.
I Absolutely aggree, hound hunters screwed up big time with Gold Shaw Farm and now, when shit hit the fan they are just playing hard to get before the inevitable changes. Inavitable because Morgan has a very good point against current outdated laws for hound hunting.
And this is why you ask permission to use property ***before*** you hunt. Now, because hound hunters never held their own accountable for not asking first, we don't really care if y'all lose the sport. The lesson here is if you don't hold crappy people in your own community accountable for immoral behavior, a bigger group well later and you'll look like part of the problem because y'all tolerated crappy people for so long. Hold your own accountable for their bad behavior please.
Another possibility is hunt by arranged permission at arranged times. Daytime might even work. Don't be disturbing a sleeping farm when the farmer wants peace and quiet. Release quacken, etc. before, and all ducks go to bed afterwards.
Weird how all the people for the "tradition" of hound hunting don't argue facts or want to get into a educated, civil debate in person about it. Rather, they go after a man's character and make fun of the fact that he's not a real farmer because he raises ducks and chickens. That's how you know these guys are 100% wrong. Tradition being used as the excuse to continue hound hunting is not a valid fact to justify violating a landowners' rights. If these guys truly cared about being responsible hunters, they would have a civil meeting in person instead of all of them ganging up on 1 guy and trashing him and his farm via podcasts, radio and TH-cam videos.
I think you touch on a valid point about multi-sided arguments. When one (or both) sides pick out pieces of information that was said to embolden their personal agenda or opinion, it's already a skewed point from a place of an obvious bias, ESPECIALLY when the name-calling and labelling of the other party's character or personal livelihood comes into play. Ones this is done, not only does this NOT help with the resolve between the two disagreeing parties, it just shows how such a person is unwilling to learn and understand all sides of the topic and like you stated, implies some serious 'guilt' on the name-caller's side.
It's not weird at all, they don't have the facts on their side, so they argue everything else, literally - ie "You're not from here, go back to where you came from"---just pure, raw ugliness. That's all they have because that what they are. If they were decent people, they'd have a serious discussion with you, but they're not, so don't expect one.
Morgan tired. Dutch set up this meeting which he controlled , had his own ppl there to intimate Morgan, then Morgan wasn’t allow talk or film. Dutch had a hissy fit and left. I think Dutch just loves to fight, he’ll find someone else he can equal bully and be unfair. Gets off on it.
Gold Shaw is a budding farm. It was not long ago that it had no cattle, but now it does, and these are contented cows for which more infrastructure like a chute or crush is soon coming. Hunters being jerks are going to bring that jerkitude on their own head. It would be to laugh if it weren't to cry -- to cry for the needless enmity. Can hunters arrange a consortium to amass swaths of land dedicated to 24/7 hunting? The state will have to get something from it, as nothing is free. But that's another strategy. Fruit and vegetable farming could even coexist with that as long as the hunters stay strictly out of that part. That could be a sublease to others. Nuance and shepherding can get one where cowboying will not.
I love how they keep stating your not from VT so you get no say in hunting laws. You are a tax payer, Land owner and a full time resident. You have the right to say no trespassing and have a right to change a law. With the GPS tracking yah it’s nice but they have no control of their dogs. And the amount of dogs they get to use is ridiculous. Finally that bear is so scared, so stressed with adrenaline pumping, I bet the meat tastes horrible.
As if those assholes would hunt for the meat. Most hunters do, of course. But those guys aren't there for nutrition, or recreational hunting, making sure gene diversity keeps on track. They're there to kill something and brag about it
It's probably not about the meat for them altogether. It's kind of like fox hunting I suppose, I don't think fox is eaten at all(at least where I come from we never eat it, it's smelly and gamey), yet it still has many fans and they use hounds.
In my country ppl who hunt with packs of dogs often behave questionable. Not only making terrible noise in the forest and scaring all the animals with no regard for people or nature but the worst in my opinion, is the torture of foxes and hunting dogs. They often train dogs to be aggressive, using wild foxes as the training dummies. Dogs are bitting the foxes and ripping them to shreds often getting badly injured in the process. Lots of these kind of hunters behaviours and practices indicate that they enjoy the element of dogs fighting the animals or the fear aspect Also the way some hunters breed and keep their dogs is questionable at times.
I don’t think Rinella would be too happy if hound hunters showed up on his land multiple times. Hound hunting should be legal on private property, but hefty fines should be issued to hunters who’s dogs trespass onto other people’s property.
That's the thing that bugs me the most about this. As I think of hunters, I tend to think of libertarian minded folks generally. Except, apparently, the liberty of land owners ends whenever a hound decides to run onto their land? These folks are absurdly selfish.
@@alexmichaud6171 I’ve been hunting longer than you have been on this planet, junior. Get back to me when you have a well thought out counterpoint to my comment. Assholes like that bear hunter give ALL hunters a bad name.
@@alexmichaud6171 Are you really telling me that they actually eat a black bear. Or they actually eat raccoon or Mountain lion or bobcats. Or coyote? Possibly they might take the meat and use it as pet food or to feed to say pigs, birds of prey or exotics but I doubt people would eat a predator given a choice.
Huge hunter, outdoorsman, passionate supporter of PUBLIC LAND ACCESS guy here, and a fan of MeatEater and Rinella, but well done on this response. Well explained, positioned, and rational in all ways. I'm with you dude. Rinella got this one wrong.
I wish America did public land like Canada did. You can go on any public land in the country, walk into a forest, chop a tree down, start a fire, whatever. That would probably stop nearly all these gripes about violating private property
@@GlorifiedGremlin you can go on any public land in the US. The biggest problem with public land in the US is that the majority of public land is "land locked" meaning it is surrounded by privately owned land, and the landowners do not allow access into their property to get to the public land.
@@GlorifiedGremlin if you're in a dry state theres a bit of an issue with just simply starting a fire though. That's why theres designated camping areas. Lots of trouble with wildfires.
@@Kimmie6772 In Canada they have this peat material in the ground that can sometimes ignite from a fire directly on the floor, and a fire will start underground and find roots and grow exponentially. But it hardly happens, just gotta educate people
Bottom line is it doesn't matter what they think of where you came from, what you're farming, or the scale of that farm. It also doesn't matter if you post youtube vids. You are the land owner. Full stop. There isn't some public easement to your land and what you're proposing isn't out of step with other states in the country. Steve is playing to his audience and he knows who they are. You don't need to go to Montana to explain it because Montana law has exactly what you're asking for. "The law requires every hunter to have permission from the landowner, lessee or agent before hunting on private property regardless of whether the land is posted or not."
If he was interested in being 'fair and balanced" then he would have contacted Morgan directly for his take on the situation. Speak directly to him. I agree he is probably just ginning up his base audience or misconstrued, misunderstood the position of the person that he was discussing.
@@deedrole5296 Yeah but this wouldn't be as controversial and getting far less clicks on the podcast. He has the hunter community of the hounders now; after this it's Morgan's community which wants to hear how it's going. Cross-promotion at it's best. If just a percentage of the whole is staying as regulars, he has won something.
It's alarming to see Steve talking like this. He can say what he wants. But if you don't have the property owners permission then you need to respect his decision to do as he wishes on the land he has guardianship/ownership of. This country life and hunting being intertwined position is ridiculous to start with. Plenty of farmers don't hunt at all. Many don't support hound hunting. By his standards you are lesser of a person if you don't and that hunters do more for the countryside than farmers who manage their land 365 days a year in a sustainable ethical manner. What shocks me the most is his outwardly dismissive nature towards anyone who wasn't born in an area and for him to define what country life is shows the ego of the man. For someone to be build his brand on encouraging more people to take up hunting but in the same breathe talk down on anyone not born into it like he was shows the bubble he exists in.
i liked Steve's content before but this will seriously make me reconsider... it shows a petty and immature thought pattern so easily write someone off with a label like he appears to be doing...
Exactly. What bothers me about what Steve Rinella said on the podcast is, from how he looked at Morgan's videos (to be able to name some of the video titles), he clearly *could have* researched through Morgan's videos. He *could have* reached out to Morgan for his side of the story. He *could have* done the bare minimum and at least try to get a clear picture of what happened. With that, he could have instead chosen to use his platform to advocate for responsible hunting. But he didn't. He went with the cheap, easy narrative. He fed into the "look at these anti-hunting city folk" narrative. And he so painfully and completely misrepresented the entire situation with Morgan and the houndhunters. And instead he made hunting look bad and all the more bro culture-y for it.
Steve is against anyone trying to end a form of hunting in general. This guy is trying to end a form of hunting. Steve brought up about the posting. If he wants people off his land....again post it. In many states have these same laws and it isn't that difficult as he makes it out to be. Btw....there is also intent when comes to posting....even if one is knocked down like he talks about. But he talks about owners rights....he also has to make sure he does things right as well. He is making excuses when he talks about posting. If he wouldn't be trying to make hound hunting illegal and just lost his land. He would be set. Look at all the effort he is going thru with these vids, editing these vids, etc about hound hunting....he could have posted his land. Btw...watch Steve's tv show when he went hunting with hounds.
@@charlessmith5436 but he isn't trying to make it illegal. Obviously you didn’t watch this video where he clearly spells out he’s looking for compromise.
As a professional wildlife conservationist, your take on living off your local land, and taking the correct precautions to do so safely alongside wildlife that benefits your land, is exactly the sort of thing my career field is working to achieve all over. Love what you're doing and you've inspired me to follow the self sustaining farm route once I've saved enough to get started!
@@brambleon Cats kill an insane amount of native bird species (also reptiles, amphibians, etc.). The proven, negative effects that outdoor cats have on native species far outweigh the positive effects of rodent control. Which, by the way, can be achieved through other methods. As professional wildlife conservationist, the OP of this reply thread would likely agree.
@@gamedinnah Interesting comment. I personally want Terriers for my "Rodent" problems when I get a farm. I love Yorkshire Terriers, they are amazing little hunters. Cats seem to eat mice, but the Terriers are trained to hunt them. Granted... My Yorkshire terrier does love to kill/play-with Lizards and Frogs...
In Finland there are hunting clubs which members are landowners of that area where they hunt. Of course not every land owner is a hunter so they ask every landowner for permission to hunt and to take into consideration. And if the animal is killed in someone's land they get a tribute of meat from the kill. We also have everyman's rights which allows you to wander the woods. But you cannot go into someone's yard where there are farms.
Its kinda hilarious that even in such a free country as finland where everyone can walk on your (not house yard or close to house/infastructure) property we still dont allow hunting unless you have property owners permission or own the property. Btw having everymans rights is the best thing ever.
To be fair...in the US what these hunters did was illegal as well. His land is posted and he was very polite about asking them to leave. Maybe if he had a shotgun with him and was an ass they wouldnt be trying to bully him.
And all of this push back and distortion because you post about your life, experiences and thoughts. It is lovely to see your openness and willingness to continue to be informed, without it threatening your person. Bravo Gold Shaw farms
As a hunter, who heard your story first on the Meateater podcast, I definitely side with you and your rights to protect your property. I absolutely don’t agree that hound hunting should be banned (and I don’t hound or bear hunt) but just because you hunt with a dog doesn’t mean you can just go wherever the hell you want, other peoples property be damned
As a non hunter I don't want to ban hunting. I just want hunters to use only the land they were invited to. Clearly we're on the same page but no one's told butch to turn to the next chapter. It makes me want to say no to the next person who asks to hunt on our property. What if they have disrespectful friends like Butch? I'd rather not take the chance. Sorry he made you look bad. You don't deserve that.
"Hunting" with dogs isn't even real hunting. Essentially, your dog(s) do the majority of the tracking and trapping (and unfortunately, sometimes the killing,) for you, while you follow them around and shoot an animal that has literally no ability to get away from you. These days you don't even NEED control of your dogs; you can just hook a GPS up to them and eventually locate them on a map. How is that sporting? My family comes from deer, turkey, duck hunting lineage....bear "hunting" and coon "hunting" with hounds is disturbing and pathetic.
I've been a Meateater fan for a long time, before Gold Shaw, but he was extremely unfair to Gold Shaw. I live in Oregon, we don't have Vermont's loose definition of trespassing, but we have public land. My dream is a farm in free ranging birds, cows and guard dogs. I want Kangals because I expect wolves to eventually spread throughout the State, so I'd need wolf killers. They'd be hound killers too, and I don't want that for anyone involved. Vermont's trespassing laws are far to onerous, the fact that you have to do so much work annually, is pretty insane. Purple laws are a great compromise, but if they want to stick to signage and registration it should be every 5 or 10 years.
RE: MeatEater Team: "...because he is SO CONCERNED that a dog may come on his land..." As a farmer...YEAH. YEAH WE ARE CONCERNED. Keep your dogs tf away from my farm. How is this even in question? No farmer wants a semi-feral hunting dog with no training to obey commands and only a gps collar to get reeled in when they rampage out too far anywhere near their farm. If you're a farmer that wants dogs running around your property and your animals with absolutely no leash or control of any kind please comment below. I'd love to know who tf wants their property and animals in danger so some out of state entitled jacks can drag a mangled predator home that cannot, even at bare minimum, be harvested for meat or hide after they're torn apart. Let alone even have the effing grace and respect to be present when that animal meets their end. Enlighten me how this disgraceful act PLUS putting our animals and property at risk is totally A-OKAY and worth defending as a practice that should continue to the next generation of farmers and hunters.
Bravo, well said. And if the hunters do,look down theirs noses at those who farm ( even if it isn't beef steak cattle.) Where do they think,their eggs, bacon goose ,duck or Turkey at Christmas comes from. Just ignorant entitled male Karens
It's retarded, there's no reason a dog is allowed on someone else private property, especially for hunting, and there's no reason anyone should be wandering onto a farm. The hunter was being an entitled jackass and MeatEater should know better and had a bad take on the situation. Even if the hunting dogs were well trained they could spook livestock who may escape or hurt themselves, the guard dog could protect his territory and attack the hunting dogs (justifiably), and if the hunting dogs werent well trained (which they didnt appear to be) they could kill livestock or attack the guard dog, and the hunters quarry could break things, hurt someone, hurt livestock, attack the guard dog, or spook the livestock too.
Again, do not back down to these people. They are trying to scare you off. What you're trying to stop isn't really asking to much of these hunters. Just control your damn dogs and don't go onto private property! That's it! They are the ones turning this into a bigger deal then it should be. Clearly they never had "rules" before and are acting like stubborn children.
It’s not that simple, you can’t just tell a dog to stop when it’s chasing after it’s quarry, hunting is bred into these hounds dna, and no matter how well trained they are, 9 times out of 10, they’re gonna chase that bear. Dogs don’t know property lines, they go where the bear goes
@@logangower8615 Doesn't matter. Private property is private property, and controlling hunting dogs is the hunter's responsibility, not the landowner's problem. Inability to control dogs doesn't excuse trespassing.
@@cobalt1754 I agree, but I just think people could go a little easier on houndsman, housedogs get in neighbors yards, same as hunting dogs, what would you do if your dog got on someone’s land and they said that you couldn’t go get it back
@@logangower8615 do you know how many dogs my uncle has had to shoot in SC? Tons. These hunting dogs always stumble on private property and will attack and kill anything in it's way. They're vicious and should never be allowed to be miles away from their owner running a muck. These "hound hunting" dogs have killed cats, chickens, 2 turkeys, and attacked other dogs in the small neighborhood my uncle lives in that butts up against acres of woods that are frequently hunted. The owners of the houses just shoot all the dogs that come onto their property now without hesitation because of the shit they do. So unless hunters want their dogs dead, they need a better system.
@@logangower8615 also how is it real hunting when you have the dog doing all the work? Our ancestors would laugh. If you can't keep your dogs in check and keep them off private property then maybe hound hunting should be eliminated all together. It's a risk to everyone and everything when they're loose. Many things have changed over the years because they realized it wasn't in the best interest of many, so I say, do away with it.
I’ve enjoyed Steve Rinella’s work and am definitely pro-hunting. However the derogatory, demeaning way he spoke about the Gold Shaw Farm came across snobbish to say the least. Surprised and disappointed by his behaviour. You go ahead and take care of your animals and land how you see fit.
@@joeyricefried9621 , that's not true. And totally unfair. This channel does everything possible to see others post of views. If you were a land owner, you would understand how violated one feels when hunters come with guns and dogs to kill the wildlife on YOUR private property. No one should have to tolerate that.
I am an avid hunter and totally understand your point about ur pri ate property and hunters running dogs . I ha e 100 acres private property surrounded by dog hunters and its annoying when ur in a tree stand and deer dogs come howling through ur farm
Sounds like Vermont has deliberately made it complex and difficult to simply say “this is my property, please don’t hunt on it.” 🤔 And some of the hunting community is angry that landowners have the right at all. Don’t worry, Morgan. If the guy couldn’t be bothered to learn your NAME, the offer to give you a mic and talk wasn’t sincere.
it's not that hard for a hunting organisation to ask all the land owners if it's okay to hunt on their land. The ywant to hunt, they go around the neighbourhood for a bit. It makes so much more sense that by default you are not allowed to hunt on others land, and you just ask for permission. If they think it's such a good thing for the land owners, it should be easy to get that yes from most land owners!
@@Tsuchimursu according to Morgan, he has to register his land each year if he doesn’t want to hunted upon. Be pretty easy to go get that list and not hunt in that area.
I killed my first deer with my dad on Thanksgiving day when I was 15 years old. And dad always told me if you have to use a bunch of dogs to tree your prey then you're not a very good hunter.
not good, but efficient. xD *releases 1000 dogs, gets 500 bears* Be good if you were like trying to market/sell the meats to the neighboring cities. I digress, you are right. just wanted to make the little quip
Also, if you're using dogs to tree your deer.... you might not know what a deer is? /jk I was amazed when I learned that hunters can come on my land without my permission to hunt deer. (I was a recent transplant from rural Arizona to rural Oregon.... and from a suburban lot to 10 acres). We posted the land and later fenced it (ten acres is a lot easier to fence than 160.) I'm probably seen as a "bleeding heart liberal" but I also have a great deal of respect for farmers and those living much closer to the real world than you get in a city (I grew up in Silicon Valley). The video where the bearded guy showed up having treed a bear on Morgan's property was very *very* uncomplimentary to Butch (I think that was his name) and I think that he spoke with Morgan in two ways. Sometimes he spoke to Morgan as if he was a city-slicker who needed to be set straight, and sometimes he spoke to him like he might speak to and with his buddies. The problem is that the view that "I'd sure like to own some slaves," might be a popular one in Butch's circle of friends, but it's not very popular in general. He also basically admitted that the only way that he can do his hound-hunting is by allowing the dogs to take off after the critters. he couldn't continue to do his preferred method of hunting if he had to keep up with the dogs, or keep them within sight. The landowners rights are bogus. If the sign comes down, then it's not posted properly? Sounds like it was written so that any hunter who wants to hunt on anyone's land, if they encounter the sign, can remove it and legally trespass. Guess I'm never moving to Vermont. I'd say it's highly likely that Butch set it up so that he was hunting in Morgan's neck-of-the-woods.
I grew up in a house of hunters (I couldn't do it personally, I was too much of a bitch, lol) but they ALWAYS respected the environment of the hunt. That meant any (body) living in that area, their animals (be it farm or not) and of course, control of our dogs. No, we didn't need leashes or collars to "hold" them down. But they absolutely knew when to stop n go. But they always didn't take the dogs either. I can understand the dog aspect for bigger prey (bears in this example) but for deer? Nah, you are a bad hunter if you can't properly hunt a deer. It's so frustrating to see Morgen going through this. Even more frustrating how hunters are just downsizing him because of the size of his farm or, god forbid, have a fucking YT channel. I like watching Morgens content because I would love to be back on the farm but, I just don't have the time or energy. So I live vicariously through Morgen.
@@theconsciouscorgi2103 oh waaa does it hurt your little feelings that I said that? Why? Oh you're one of those hunters...is it the big dog pack or the big gun that helps you compensate?
Tbh, I don't think he had really thought about this situation properly. In my opinion, Steve isnt too bright, and I often get the impression he's lead more by his ego than his brain. He seems more preoccupied by trying to sound smart, than actually being smart. Half the stuff he says is just flat out wrong, illogical, or contradicts something he previously said.
Morgan, if the meat eater Podcast really wanted your perspective, They would have reached out to you for a comment before posting their Podcast. I think they are just jumping on the bash gold Shaw farms bandwagon for the engagement. Do not assume they actually want to have a conversation in good faith.
The Podcaster behaves like he is jockeying for a shock jock pole position. All lies, lies, and more damnable lies. No basis for any truth at all. However, I'm in the market for a guard dog/trained killer like Toby. LOL
ND went to Electronic Posting this year. I'm a hunter and I love it. There is no ambiguity. Its either posted or its not. The landowner no longer has to constantly check to see if their signs are up, and I don't have to worry if the land was meant to be posted but a sign fell down.
To me the radio host is stupid. He compares a hound hunter to a visitor to your house. Wrong. It's more like someone who's dogs ran into your house chasing a racoon and then went ahead to retrieve them but you saw them in your house, they then asked you if it's ok to retrieve them. But then they are ALREADY inside. If you are the owner of the house wouldn't you have some sort of careful instinct towards a complete stranger walking into your house? Is it then, wrong for you to record it on video in case something happens while they were in your house? That's a better comparison but the host is obviously biased and like a common biased news network he set his mind to make you the villain in his story.
Butch was very respectful. He pulled up and showed his ID and asked to retrieve his dogs. If my dog runs off and comes onto somone’s yard I usually feel pretty safe about going over there to grab her. My neighbors has never given me shit about it and never recorded me.
@@jameskearse8617 because you're there to get your troublesome dog out of their way. You didn't jump into their yard after your dog and then nose around, and act entitled to their BBQ and some fresh cut flowers out of their garden.
I feel like you are honestly trying to work with these people and inviting open discussion and they're giving you the run around or making snarky comments without even trying to actually understand your view point. I feel like you're open to changing your opinion but they go in knowing what they want to believe and twist anything of you they can to try to prove their right. Not a good look for these people.
It's politics, and all about who has the most influence as to how the laws are written. So far, the hound hunters have had the biggest influence on law makers, until now. Morgan had substantial influence to change the laws for the first time in centuries, and they're scared. When they come at you hard as they are, they're for sure intimidated!
@@TheMindfulHomestead the issue really is the lack of adult communication with the hounding community to come to an agreement of any kind. He tried to talk sensibly to them to possibly come to some sort of mutual agreement, but the whole community isn't receptive and is not open to compromise on the matter so this was his solution. It's not the best solution for all parties involved, but what can you expect?
This doesn’t look like a coincidence to me. Suddenly, a couple of out of state sports hunters show up at your farm two days after you launched the petition randomly luring a bear into your property? This looks like a planned provocation by them to me. Stay strong mate, protect your property!
The sign law is a joke! Obviously if it isn't the bear hunters land, then he knows he is trespassing! How is an elderly or disabled land owner supposed to keep up with the yearly postings? What stops a bear hunter from tearing down a sign and then say... Oh there wasn't a sign there???? You never opposed to hunting, it was the control of the dogs or lack of control!
The sign law is clearly supposed to be annoying to keep up so that hunters can get access to your land. That's the only reason I can see for it to be that way
It's not a joke and it's extremely important. How is a person supposed to know what is public and private land if it's not marked? There is public land all over the United States directly next to private property. You can hunt/hike/walk/camp/etc. in one spot and 20 feet away is private property. There is no way to tell the difference unless it's marked.
@@scottmc1855 the joke is that the required signage can be easily "lost/removed" and the hunter can claim ignorance. They should do the purple paint. Very hard to have your purple painted posts and trees suddenly not there.
Gotta be honest… when I first clicked the video, I was like “eh he’s gonna go and rant on some crazy anti hunting sentiment.” I was pleasantly surprised. You did a great job at pointing out nuances not captured by the meateater podcast - well spoken and your point of view was clear and very compelling. I have a lot of respect for that and also the willingness for compromise and finding a mutually agreeable middle ground.
This whole thing could've been avoided if those hound hunters respected private property. The whole conversation/debate over the morality of traditional hound hunting wouldn't even come up.
@@1414siamks they did respect his property and told him his dogs are on his property and ask to retrieve his dogs, And it was during the day, I don't think the bear guys did as much wrong as the racoon hunters, The racoon hunters where in the wrong, But not by choice, because the racoon went on his property, and at a disturbing time of day, I think it was the combination of all the factors, perfect storm so to speak. I think the property rights should supercede the hunt, always get permission first, Tracking a healthy animal or a wounded animal, wounded animal Tracking should always have the authorities notified after an unsuccessful attempt of recovery. They use dogs to track wounded animals too. And the authorities can smooth things out before they get out of hand ✋🙄
I love how other people like "picking apart" all of your youtube videos despite the fact that you're a very successful content creator with a sizeable following. It just screams "I'm intimidated and jealous of his succes and fearful of his reach". Keep doing the awesome work creating awesome content. You ARE making a difference!
Uhm Meateater is way more successful. You might not have heard of it in your circles but they have a first ever hunting show in the history of Netflix and they have a really good TH-cam channel too
@@jameskearse8617 I've heard of him before and you're right, I'm not a subscriber. That said, it doesn't mean that since I'm female I'm not subbed to any hunting channels. Quite the contrary. Besides, he is really not that far ahead of Morgan subscriber wise, and to speak of him the way he has with not a spec of impartiality, which is what a good creator would do, speaks volumes. It's not uncommon for a creator to feel threatened by another creator and try to "cancel" them or to try and ruin their credibility. They get so caught up in the attention that they feel they have to compete with other channels to gain subs. It's sad but a very real reality. He could have handled the situation way better in my opinion, and I'm positive he's threatened by Morgan's reach in this issue.
I wonder what would have happened if you had simply denied the old guy with the bear hounds access to your land. If you had simply told him to recall his hounds from the road. He might have lost a few dogs without being able to recall. Sure you can't stop the dogs but the hunter has no right to access. If he cant recall the dogs then that is simply his problem.
Once he came to Josh’s door and asked permission he has acknowledged the land owners right. Had he denied permission at that time it would be trespassing to go further.
@@GoldenMechaTiger If Morgan denied them access to his land, they would not have been able to get their dogs. That's the law in VT. But Morgan was considerate to them and their animals, they should be considerate also---you tend to get a better solution when you work WITH people.
Nice rebuttal, I listened to that podcast a while back and was hoping to hear you side of the story. I follow the Meateater media and am a big fan but thought that story sounded a little one sided. Good job putting out your side of the story. Well done, your explanation was very well thought out and clearly stated your case
I wounder why you and other meateater fans still use their media? since they obviusly lack any objectivity.. Why would they run a podcast without asking for the otherside to provide their point of view?
@@GoodKnight5252 Guy in this video was very misleading. They did not go onto the property intentionally. Their dogs followed the bear onto the property. Whether or not, that’s the truth is to be determined. The argument was never if they’re allowed to hunt on his property it’s just to retrieve their dogs. The guy in this video is intentionally changing the story when the meat eater crew just didn’t have a lot to go off of.
I dont think participating in the podcast would mean anything, to be honest. To me, it looks like those guys already have an opinion just by listening to one side of the story. If you participate, all they will do is make fun of you and wave off every concern you have. They will make you the joke and you will not accomplish anything. I mean, you can try but... I dont see a reason. They clearly made up their mind. There is not much you can do. Yeah, this is how things work. Once one side decides the other is a threat, they will try to trample that person, involve as much media as possible, make up stories about them, crack jokes about them, demean their efforts and their dignity... Like kindergarten, really. Once the majority of people hears their side, it is really difficult to make them listen to the other because an opinion was already formed.
I dont think so. If you participate and you have everything you want to say ready and overall keep your cool and argue with dignity there will always be people who think you might actually be right. It doesnt matter if the host doesnt think so. It only matter what you can tell to people listening the podcast. It isnt always winning a single battle. Sometimes you have to lose to get more support and morgan is definitely getting more support everytime he keeps his calm collective attitude. Overall he will bring the dignity of the hosts down if they just keep harassing him and him keeping totally cool about it. I know in united states sometimes the one who shouts the loudest wins(looking at most of your elections) but i have hopes its not always the case.
I don’t. Steve is really great at talking with people with opposing views, and I suspect that once he had all the facts he would see things differently.
@@teemuhasu2302 It depends on the listeners of the podcast, ultimately. But if the guy is so ignorant already, then I can only imagine how ignorant his fans must be if they think he is a cool guy to listen to. Is he getting angry feedback after this podcast from his fans?
I don't know this podcast dude but he seems able to differentiate between the sides. It just seems as if he had a lot of biased people around who brought up the issue to him. And no media dude with a clear mind let's go of a spicy story if it comes to the doorstep, if you know what I mean.
@@Rentaro89 exactly. He says on the podcast that a lot of people were telling him about it. If he watched the videos I think he would have a different opinion. Not necessarily about banning hound hunting, but definitely about the behavior of the hunters.
I'm 100% certain your calm, rational, respectful and very measured response is not at all what they were expecting. And I still don't understand this hatred of your TH-cam videos. Do hunters instinctively hate TH-cam? You make wholesome, family-friendly, entertaining, informative videos about running your new farm. Weird.
They might(and this is just speculation) just hate anything that reminds them of the crowds and cities, including being active on forms of social media.
They don't hate youtube it sounds like it's a way for them to take shots at shaw and try to make him feel down about the work he does. The owner of the meateater podcast also does hunting videos on youtube. I'm really upset about what Steve & his podcast said about shaw & his farm. I really liked steves work can't believe he would say this.
Those insecure "manly men" are trying to portrait him as silly, making videos of puppies and ducklings. It just shows how pathetic they are, making fun of someone's honest work. I don't like hunting but I always respected hunters, especially for what they do to protect salt marshes around here. But this whole drama is making me disgusted with them more and more. I hope it's just several vocal bad apples not the whole community.
Got to laugh at "he comes to the country and tries to tells us what to do" THEY CAME ON TO YOUR LAND??? Until they came and tried to push you around you didn't have anything to do with them. To me they tried to throw themselves at a "city farmer" thinking you were an easy target and then cried when they realised you weren't going to back down or play their games. Good on you keep it up.
Wow... for some reason, I didn't see it from that perspective. LOL that's a good one. And its not really "their land". That's the sad part. Given country folks are often staunch pro-USA, they seem to forget rights of fellow *private* citizens.
@@ElemXCR I agree, but you have to look at it from the locals viewpoint as well.. they’ve lived and hunted probably on and through that land, their whole lives, and now someone new is there changing everything.. Vermont has deep hunting, traditions and usually we allow people to cross our land. Bernie Sanders has destroyed Vermont.
That meat eater podcast guy is super uninformed. And in a way egging on the bullying and harassment to continue towards you over this hound hunting stuff. It is your land. Where we live you come onto private property you get shot. Not saying I would shoot someone but others would. You have a right to your privacy and safety on your own land. The Vermont laws for home and landowners needs to be changed so it is no so hard for you and others to keep hunters and trespassers off.
Especially since people can take down a landowner’s signs and be like oh see it’s totally fine you’re not properly posted If it was the other way around, where hunters only had permission if the land was posted I can guarantee you those signs wouldn’t just mysteriously disappear :/
This is a foreign concept to me as a Texan; if anyone walks onto your land with a weapon without your permission, you can legally tell them to leave. If they don't go, you call the police. If they become threatening, you take action. Doesn't matter what they're doing, that's it, at least from what I know. Hound hunting (this style of it) isn't really a thing here (at least none of the hunters I know), probably because people realize their dogs would get shot by landowners. Not saying it's right, but there's some implied rules around here and severe consequences are occasionally applied. Some people probably find that horrifying, but, again, there's not much loose hound hunting going on, so the rules seem to work. A farmer's animals count just as much as, if not far more than, a hunter's animals. Don't threaten a landowner with potentially untrained, lethal animals that you're not 100% in control of. Down here, that kind of stunt gets the dog or the hunter hurt. Edit: confirmed by my parent, hound hunting is just illegal here. Y'all, if Texas outlaws a form of hunting, then it's not really a valid form of hunting.
You mean Texas? The place with dozens of invasive terrestrial species, high-fence “hunting”, posted signs as the state flower, and a whole host of other non-native species? No thanks. You can keep it. I’m obviously being a bit antagonistic, but Texas is VERY far from being the poster child for fair-chase hunting and sound ecological conservation.
Steven has always seemed so reasonable to me. I guess I am naive because I legit thought he was going to be on your side. Every time I’ve seen him hunt he’s doing all the hard work and it’s a fair contest between man and beast. The hunts he’s done on private land has always been with permission. I’ve only seen him being respectful. I can’t believe Steven was using such a snotty tone of voice and accidentally or willfully misrepresenting the facts. Steven is super protective of his family I find it hard to believe that he would be cool with his household being awaken in the middle of the night and stressing out the pets in his household.
I am a hunter and a subscriber and am 100% in agreement with your sentiments. The posting laws seem onerous to the landholder. I agree with updating existing laws due to GPS which is now readily available to hunters.
GPS actually let’s owners have greater control over their dogs. Most of these collars are equipped with recall ability where you could signal your dogs to return to you
@@jameskearse8617 If Butch and co were using GPS collars, meaning that Butch and Co simply could have issued a command to retrieve them, then why did Butch need permission to go onto Morgan's property to find and retrieve them? Whichever way you slice it, I smell bullshit.
@@brianwarden1972 you've just made an argument as to why GPS collars are unreliable enough that they shouldn't replace forms of hound hunting where hunters remain in close proximity to their dogs.
@@andrewrichards312 gps as far as I know is super reliable and yet has nothing to do with a recall feature. Staying “close” is a relative term and practically impossible to enforce as well as impractical for hunting.
The posting law is silly at best... This just means that if you want to enter a private property - all you need to do is knock down a sign and say that you never saw it. I mean - who will prove you were the one to take it down? To make sure your property is and will stay posted you'd have to have surveliance on whole border!
Morgan, I 100% support your as well anyone's Property Rights I support your efforts to improve and diversy your tree ecosystem. I think you should address the archaic sign posting requirements. I personally have had signs ripped down by hunters.
In trying to insult Morgan in any conceivable way, they are demeaning supporters. There are corn farms, blueberry farms, farms that raise sheep, farms that raise cows, and turkey farms. Chickens and ducks don't count...? It's like saying a farm largely dedicated to tomatoes isn't a farm because there are a lot of people with tomatoes in their gardens?
It is a form of ad hominem argument. Essentially, attack Morgan rather than his argument. "After all, what does he know, he is just a Duck Farmer!" It is a dishonest tactic. It makes his offer for discussion to be disingenuous, I am afraid if Morgan takes him up on it ... Morgan will be talked to, rather than be in a discussion.
According to the USDA you can register a farm as long as it is at least 20' x 20' and have an agricultural business on it such as bee hives... oh wait, that would make bee keeping farming too! Growing trees is a farm as well!
Hound hunting is NOT sportsmanlike!! The dogs are doing all the work FOR THEM. It would be like a golfer in a tournament getting Tiger Woods to get the ball close to the hole for them so it’s easier to win
Indeed, this seems like a pretty clear cut misunderstanding. Steve for sure didnt have the details and built his whole way of thinking on a wrongful assumption.
The old guy (who the podcast defends despite him literally endorsing slavery) said he was open to a later conversation too and then he ghosted you completely, and was openly hostile when you went to his public meeting just to listen and kicked you out. I bet this podcaster will do the same. They say they are open for discussion, block you and make it look like you didn’t want to talk. Garbage political way of doing things. I hope everything’s better soon but with their attitudes I don’t see how a conversation can even start, much less reach a compromise.
I agree. Considering how the podcast mischaracterized Morgan, his farm, the hound hunters' actions, and Morgan's disagreement with the practice, it's not hard to see that they're probably looking for an on-air punching bag-- not someone to have a respectful conversation with.
I dont know anything about Steve Rinella but what I gather from this video, he's kind of a hypocrite. Making fun of morgan for making YT vids while he's doing Podcasts.... okay lol. Also I wonder if he would like a group of like 10 strangers to come onto his property unannounced probably not but its okay for them to do it to Morgan.
Lol remember the guy complaining about Morgan’s “trained killer guard dog” while his actual trained hunting dogs were trespassing on Morgan’s property? Hypocrisy is all these fools know.
If you don’t know anything about Steve Rinella , you should probably shut your mouth. The dude knows more and does more abo he conservation than anything this small time duck farmer could ever do. Pretty much all Morgan’s videos can be summed up as bitching about a law he doesn’t like
I’m a hound hunter and have been my whole life. I have coon hunted, rabbit, and squirrel hunted with a dog for many years and I do not and WILL NOT turn loose on a property that I don’t have permission on, that’s DISRESPECTFUL AND RUDE! But hounds can’t read and just do their jobs and go on. I will always ask permission to retrieve my hound and leave the gun in the truck.
These last 5 years have broken a lot of people’s brains. It’s disappointing to hear how disingenuous Rinella was. Years ago when I first heard of him, he seemed like a reasonable person. Now he’s clearly picked a side and closed off his mind.
@Erozpl01 01 i haven't listened to the podcast, but from the snippets in this video, it seems like he hasn't properly researched what has happened and what morgan's stance actually is. but he did say at the end that he would fly morgan over to chat on the podcast, which i guess props to him, doesn't seem like he's totally closed off yet.
@Erozpl01 01, He's a doosh, that's how. Who has the right to go on ones private property and shoot a bear that has been run till his heart is about to burst, then finally climbs a tree to try and get away from 4 dogs. That ain't hunting. And he defends it, that makes him a doosh.
Ask him to prove he takes out the majority of his kills and you won't get any proof. I've been asking since I first saw him years ago and still have not gotten any kind of proof. In my opinion the guy just killed animals for clicks and leaves the majority of the meat to rot in the field
@@aureliusva, You are 100% correct. He just destroys wildlife and then walks away. It's beyond disgusting and he thinks he's doing something good or whatever ? It's messed up, big time.
@Erozpl01 01 whatever you need to tell yourself. I ask. They say they take the full animal, yet somehow with all those cams, no proof. If you have consistent video evidence I'd be interested to see the link.
They are just playing politics that you need to play as well. Politicians always overblow things to keep any opponents down. As long as they can associate you with negative feelings then you will lose the public opinion.
You're right about how they're playing the game, but I'd really hate to see Morgan use the same stupid tactics. Him being so reasonable is part of why I really enjoy watching the channel and hearing his take on issues. It's a breath of fresh air compared to the usual "Why compromise when you can dramatize?!"
@@ixta I like Morgan's content and attitude, but they are playing dirty. You saw what they did the other day with lying about their association with the Wildlife Department and holding that "teaching session" in trying to rile up his neighbors so they would run him out of town.
The offer to fly you out "treat you like a special guest" was 1000% made in the knowledge that it would be too difficult for you to take up. I wouldn't expect an offer of remote call in.
It's not even hunting if you're just unleashing dogs to do the work for you. these people have no clue and are so delusional. I guess by their logic I'm a hunter too when my cat brings me dead mice :/
The dogs don't kill the animal, they dogs are trained to tree the animal. Then the hunters come and shoot the animal out of the tree at near point blank range. My dad hunts with a bird dog. The dog is trained to go into the undergrowth and chase out the Bird. The hunter than shoots the bird in flight. It is similar to that. The difference being that how my dad hunts the dogs is rarely more than a football field away from him, while hound hunting has the dogs sometimes miles away.
@@saraschneider6781 It is shooting fish in a barrel. Why not just put bears in cages and tie a gun to a post - a dollar a shot? I see absolutely no difference.
@@saraschneider6781 It’s lazy hunting. It’s unsportsmanlike hunting. It’s lame hunting. It’s technically hunting, but like the shittiest form of it. Like my bearded dragon hunts crickets and that’s real hunting because he has to chase them down and catch them. Hound hunters don’t actually hunt. They let the dogs do the hard part and come in for the fun part, shooting a trapped animal with no ability to escape from 20 feet. Real hunting my ass.
If a hound hunters dog is on someone else's property were they don't have permission to hunt either they don't have control over their dog, or they are poachers. Neither is justifiable.
Yep. This is what the hound hunters don’t grasp is that what they’re doing is poaching. Also it’s basic commonsense sure you check with the landowner before you start letting dogs off. This is not the 1900s anymore you’ve got a patchwork of land owned by different people not vast Estates owned bye a few individuals with tenant farmers on it. Also wouldn’t it be good practice to alert the locals that you’re going to be in the area so that they can ensure that anything which is free ranging is behind a fence. Also in this day and age you’ve got far more people with livestock guardian dogs knocking about and those dogs are going to see the hounds of predators and attack them. If you’ve got someone with windows Russian dogs, they make Toby look like a cocker spaniel in terms of their level of aggression.
Lost me when he said he was a staunch believer in private property rights and then later essentially said it’s too much work to properly post private property.
@@akita_kong most of mine last on average of about 6-8 years I’d say. I spend a day a year double checking them. I just buy about a dozen sheets of 3/4” plywood, cut them down into 18”x18” squares, spray paint them purple (purple is not a naturally occurring color in nature so it stands out very well against trees, brush, water, etc) then I staple blaze orange NO TRESPASSING signs I buy at a sporting goods store directly to my freshly painted wood squares and then write my name as the property owner in the designated spot with a weatherproof marker. The marker usually lasts about 2-3 years before it fades. Then to hang them I hop in my truck, throw a ladder, a drill and an impact driver in along with my signs. Every 250 feet is the legal distance in my state. I drag the ladder to a tree pick out and hang them all about 6’ high. I drill pilot holes into the tree with the drill then use the impact driver and lag bolts to fasten the sign to the tree itself. It’s a hard day of work, but that’s all it is, a single day.
This sucks man. I was a big fan of Steven, after I started watching his MeatEater show on Netflix. Thought he was a real genuine down to earth nice guy. This whole situation is making me think I may need to change my view on that. I definitely stand on Morgan's side with this one.
You know the facts here. Rinella talks out of his ass, he should have reached out to Morgan and get his story, before assuming things based on what was shared with him from the biased side. That tells you all there’s to know about this guy, he’s ridiculous. His fame got to his head.
The fact that someone who Advocates hunting so passionately will try to diminish someone else simply because they asked a hunter to have permission before they came on the land and to respect that land it's not the type of person you want to listen to. Little Stevie and is hunting ethics are both garbage and you would do best to stay away from people like that. He also has never once proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that he is taking as much as possible of his kills out. A my opinion he kills animals for clicks and leaves the majority of it to rot in the field
@@aureliusva I completely agree. I really loved Stevens Netflix show, however after watching a few seasons I noticed whenever he went bow hunting he would NEVER have a well placed shot, all the animals died a slow and painful death and they wouldn't find most. But guess what he still continues bow hunting even though he can barely do it. Plus there was one episode were he and his friend took two new hunters to their first turkey hunt. his friend is a brilliant and kind hunter, who at the end if the episode didn't have a kill because they didn't have a safe shot so they didn't shoot. However Steven pressured his partner into taking an unsafe shot and therefor the new hunter only hurt the turkey and never found it. After that she had a breakdown and got putt off hunting forever because her first experience was so traumatising. I'm conclusion Steven is a hack and a terrible hunter.
I am a hunter. Never used dogs to corral prey. Seems fine to me but I still believe you should have absolute property rights and those who hunt on private property should be required to have written permission on their person to hunt on private property.
Yep. I'm not a hunter myself. But, I've no problems with using dogs in controlled ways to 'startle' for example birds into flight for the hunter. Or to help track down prey otherwise, on a leash, for example. But, to release dogs to chase a bear or something, with all the stress and so on that causes, until it goes into a tree or the dogs catch up to it, no. That's a disgusting way to hunt.
@@Nemrai Honestly, how these hound are used in hunting. I feel there is just too much risk involved. You aren't near your dog. If the bear fights back, your dog can be seriously hurt to the point of dying a painful and utterly pointless death.
Your land wasn’t properly posted. It’s your right as a property owner to post it. Even if hound hunting wasn’t legal you still would have had issues with someone trespassing because of negligence. Taking the time to post property is one of those annual RESPONSIBILITIES of landowners that don’t want trespassers, or landowners that want to legally fight trespassers. We do it on our farm. We understand that if it’s not done we can’t complain about trespassing.
I don't understand how these guys that are all about property rights and personal freedoms get so mad when someone else exercises their property rights and personal freedoms.
@@saraschneider6781 I vaguely remember some youtubers, but nothing concrete comes to mind. But yeah, I agree that support for Steve should be put on ice until said apology comes.
Being led here from Steve’s Instagram post encouraging me to listen to your story points out the ability to compromise on both parts as you clearly stated is your goal. After reading other people’s posts the one take away I have is that people forget that humans often project their opinions as a fallible creature. This apply’s to Mr Shaw, Mr Rinella, and each of the people behind the messages tied to this thread. Good job launching a thoughtful response that offers pause for the often quick triggered folks.
This "outsider" thing is bullshit, besides the fact that buying a property gives you full ownership rights no matter how you want to exercise them, you're a lot more careful and respectful towards nature and traditional farming than a whole lot of countryside natives. This whole issue is blown out of proportions by a bunch of bullies who think they can intimidate you, in your shoes I couldn't have been as polite and patient as you were with those poachers. Yeah, I said poachers, not only because I dislike hounding, but because hunting on private property without permission is considered poaching where I live no matter how you do it or what permits you may have, state authorities can only authorize you to hunt on public land (and some community managed areas), not private farmland.
Yeah, the onerous burden of posting land requirements is severe. And this so-called "tradition" is no tradition at all-- GPS collars on the dogs running for miles with no human intervention, hunters sitting at home in their recliners waiting for a signal from the dogs (description by Butch in video). That is not "tradition" of any kind. And it forms a new and previously unforeseen problem in that in the actual tradition, the dogs don't run loose for miles with no human intervention. So the Vermont laws don't adequately cover these new conditions.
plus why would the meat eater guy even complain about him being am outsider. he has multiple properties all over America where he hunts. what a hypocrit .
it is commercial hunting done illegally in my opinion... if you are leading a hunt for monetary gains by locator beacon/gps tracking it isn't hunting whether by verbal cue or by leash this would be what i would hound/any specie of dog hunting you can name.. as you have a measure of control of the dog not you let them roam free and unaccounted for and you track them by gps collar this no more different than bating at a deer/stage/doe blind same principle though you are baiting the bear to run up the nearest tree that can support its weight.. so you can shoot it.. It don't matter whether it is brown, black, kodiak, grizzly or polar bears you hunt it ain't hunting if you ain't in control of your dogs at any step of the process it isn't a hunt it's a baiting slaughter .. Done the right way i have no issues in hound/dog hunting in general though i do caution people within the media whether content lives on channels like discover media/history or other such adventure channels or amazon/netflicks media groups, blogging and calling out someone making yourself looking like an idiot in the process.. look at the issue first before you comment and make baseless ascertains check the facts first befpre opening your mouth.. to the farmer in this case also when you explaining what you are saying make sure you are defining what you line stance is on certain types of hunting and define also the history of hound hunting....
@@nizvkfb7vsbvrsct723 because he doesn’t come to Montana and try to impose his views on local residents. It’s not about being an outsider it’s about acting like one.
@@jameskearse8617 He’s not the person been woken up at stupid o’clock in the morning by uninvited hunters on his land. Morgan like a lot of farmers across the globe have multiple jobs in order to keep financially viable. If you let’s say went up into the Yorkshire Dales or Cumbria you’ll find a lot of farmers have cottages you can rents or they have tea rooms for passing hikers or they have the fishing rights let out so that people can come and pay a fee and fish on their property et cetera. When you have an uninvited hunter piling through your land not respecting your rights as a landowner then it Will cause problems regardless of whether the person was born and bred in the state several generations or somebody not long moved there from another state.
I love both gold shaw farm and Meat Eater, after listening to that podcast I think Steve got a very screwed version of the story. I would hope that he could peel his blinders off a little bit to see the bigger picture. You cannot respect private property right and let dogs run wherever. Specifically in that video with butch, Morgan make the statement that law says you must have control over your dogs, if you are a 1/4 mile plus away and the dog won't stop a chase on command it's hard to claim you can control the dog, which means property rights are being violated. So I think it's time to amend (not get rid of) hound hunting laws.
At this point they are, willingly or ignorantly, helping VT hound hunters assassinate Morgan's character, and making fun of someone for not yet being successful at what they do is a piss poor presentation of one's own ego. Hope they resolve this issue, but the internet taught me not to lean on hope too much.
Well said. I’ve lost a lot of respect for Steve now. I’m hoping he was talking un informed off the cuff. I still hope he can realize his blind spots because I don’t think I can enjoy meateater as much anymore.
I have no desire to listen to Steve Rinella or his podcast. It sounds like he doesn't give a rat's behind about anyone's private property rights (except for possibly his own.) The "dog doesn't understand private property rights" argument doesn't fly in my book. That being said it would be a tragedy if a property owner exercises his right (justifiably so) to defend his property against trespassing hound hunters. I wonder what Rinella would think if a property owner shoots one of his dogs?
“dogs don’t know when they’re on private property” well that’s when you as an owner step in and call them right back to you🤷🏽♀️ what an entitled mindset. keep your dogs off private property!
wow how DARE you ask hound hunters to be responsible for anything. it is clear they are aristocracy and the rest of hunting community should be cleaning the ground they stand on.
That’s literally what steve said in the podcast though. I don’t think many people understand hound hunting. I’m not saying that this I a bad video reply, but I think there is a lot of cherry-picking going on. I am not hunter, nor a land owner. But the thing that does bug me, is that if you have a problem with the way a activity is managed it isn’t fair to just try to ban it entirely, instead try to get the laws surrounding the problem changed. Imagine if you liked road cycling but motorist tried to ban cycling on roads. You’d be pissed, the better choice would to be to add bike lanes. Cycling is much more popular then hunting, hunting has a lot less people advocating for it the cycling. So I can see how hunters as whole would feel attacked by someone trying to ban hound hunting in Vermont.
@@alexarreguin5297 use a leash, then. I understand that you can't control the dogs, but you just can't jump onto other people's property without permission just like that...
Hi Morgan, I think what they are trying to do is to bait you to go to their podcast, maybe make a villain out of you. Show you as a villain. I heard the podcast and I think his views are more in line with Butch. If he really had any such intention to listen to your side of the story, he would have reached out to you. But his punchlines are more about putting you down, showing the so called "libtards" to get his point through. Best of luck on your journey, we your TH-cam fans are with you.
If that’s what you think you’re clearly unfamiliar with meateater brand and what they do. They invited a full on animal rights ethicist to counter their arguments in a Netflix documentary they made. And they made him look good too, picked out his best points. You clearly don’t know what you’re talking about
@@jameskearse8617 you clearly don't understand the point here. Also, your statement is invalid since morgan said he is willing to compromise about the hound hunting. Come on stop showing your ignorance here. Lastly, do you think that going inside a private property without the permission of the owner is the right thing to do? Those law needs to be revised because here in our country we have the right to defend our land from the hunters who trespass our land.
@@slugoo6474 they were condescending enough about him being from the city that i'm pretty sure that's what they were implying. or at least, they give me the impression of those kinds.
*What I find most irritating* about all these "dirt flinging contests" on different social medias, is that NO SHOW brings in candidates for BOTH sides of the argument at the same time. And DON'T let the BOTH of the opposite sides defend themselves from the accusations of the other side, nor isn't even allowed to correct basic mistakes. It's just such a low "blow under the belt" tactics all the time, instead of a serous discussion. I like what Morgan & Gold Shaw Farm has done, he as actually TRIED to see the other views & actually spoken WITH the other side, not just only ABOUT the other side, like the Meat Eater.
Meateater has had vegans and Peta members on the podcast in fact they gave this dude an open invitation said they'd fly him out put him in a hotel the nine yards the ball is in this dudes hands its his move
@@dangerousdylan6262 except the entire video was them not giving morgan's positions benefit of the doubt and belittling him with ad hom. They were not trying to understand or be charitable with the difference of opinion. If they were really interested in understanding Morgans opinion they would have started with the original podcast episode. Just inviting someone onto the show doesn't mean they're taking it seriously or trying to engage both sides, they just want more views.
@@arowace498 EXACTLY! And, it would be a much more interesting interview if BOTH sides would get to VOICE THEIR opinions WITHOUT any bias from the hosts, then the AUDIENCE get to make THEIR OWN opinion about the situation, instead of the host basically telling the audience what to think.
I live in Sweden and we have a law which allows everyone to walk through or even camp on any property. Basically the private property laws are very limited. And if you own a forest there is super strict regulations on how to farm it. But never in a 1000 years would you be allowed to hunt on any property without permission from the landowners.
@@cameronwelty4717 US law developed with the idea that your property is like your own little kingdom or nation, and you could run it pretty much how you please, as well as defend how you please. Laws have changed over the decades/centuries of course though.
Butch's appearance hardly seems coincidental, esp since he's from out of state. So, does Butch conduct paid hound hunting excursions? Sounds like he, and the other few mouthy hound hunters at the public meeting, are butthurt because it cuts into their lucrative hound hunting. To me, this kind of hound hunting is one step down from putting the prey in a cage and having "hunters" shoot it and calling it hunting.
Butch is from Vermont, he had with him a couple of guys from out of state that day, on Goldshaw's video. Butch described the "hunting" as, they set the dogs off with GPS collars and the "hunters" stay at home in their recliners watching the progress of the dogs on GPS devices. When the dogs signal they have something, THEN the "hunters" drive off in their vehicles to find the dogs. That is not hunting, the dogs are NOT under the control of the humans, and that is NOT OK!
@@victoriabaker4400 If he's not even leaving the house while his dogs do all the hunting, then how is he anything other than a poser pretending to be a hunter?
@@andrewrichards312 Well, that's my point. It's not a form of hunting, therefore there is no reason to allow them to run roughshod over the countryside. Every state I've lived in, if there are loose dogs chasing wildlife, those dogs can be shot dead on the instant (same with harassing farm animals or pets).
A bunch of dogs killed my dog while they were hunting a board. It's better to prevent than to be sorry. This guy can't control his dogs... He can't call them back, he can't assure they won't attack your life stock while his dogs are on YOUR land.
@@jessebridgeman767 😂 I know you're taking the piss but I have a rottweiler. I genuinely don't want to think of the reaction if I just randomly let her wander around with agps collar. For a start the local sheep farmer would probably hand me her collar. Don't want to even think about that
Totally not surprising that Rinella is disingenuous with his argument and trying to twist your words and mock you. It's the way of the Right, right now. He's a total hypocrite, I am 100% sure that manbaby would be pitching a fit if someone was on his property without his permission.
Thank you for the response! I'm curious why you choose to pursue legislation to ban hound hunting, rather than pursue legislation on the posting law. If you're really concerned with private property and not against hunting, in my mind fighting to change the tresspass/posting law. Similar legislation is happening right now in North Dakota .
What really ticks me off is the fact that Morgan is absolutely arguing in good faith, while the meat eater dudes and the hounders are decidedly not. It doesn’t matter what Morgan does; the way they talk about him is from the perspective that he’s a bad guy from the outset and everything he does is bad. You can clearly see Morgan giving the hounders etc. the benefit of the doubt and assuming good will. If the situation were reversed, they would be bemoaning that Morgan is an innocent property rights over and that he has a right to decide what goes on on his land blah blah blah. It’s aggravating to see Morgan going out of his way to be kind and understanding to people who don’t give a hoot about doing the same, they just want someone to rally against without having to actually talk to him or engage with him. It’s appalling and they should be ashamed of themselves.
The fact that they are attacking Morgan as "not a farmer" because he has poultry is ridiculous-- I live in the Deep South where poultry farms are big business. So their whole premise is to attack on a false basis. The fact that the podcaster would repeat the attack on the farm as a farm REALLY doesn't sit well with me, it's incredibly disrespectful and untrue.
@@victoriabaker4400 It is a tactic used by the dishonest. It is essentially a form of ad hominem. You are questioning the validity of everything a person says because they are not what they claim by using some stupid argument. A farmer is someone who works a farm, it doesn't matter what the farm is.
@@victoriabaker4400 I've lived in Asia, the poultry and duck farm here is a really big farm business. These hound hunters are pure ignorant and they lack respect for private property.
Morgan is being two faced, he tries to appear genuine and honest in his videos and tries to tell people that he understands nuance, meanwhile he has a petition up to completely ban hound hunting in Vermont and portrays black bears as some sort of endangered animal to appeal to all the” New Jersey cat ladies” on here. He’s fully away that black bears are not endangered and actually do need to be regulated. He also treated Butch pretty shitty when he showed up at his doorstep and was being an asshole crashing that educational even Butch threw in Peacham. The whole town was telling him to turn off his cameras and he wouldn’t.
That offer by the host of “Maneater” was 100% disingenuous because he is betting that Morgan wouldn’t want to take so much time away from the farm to travel all the way to Montana to be on that podcast.
Morgan is using excuses to NOT fly out, come on people, there's vacation time, PTO, he can use. Oh don't forget that he'll make a video and make youtube money with it DUH that's all this guy does is do a video a day on 4 platforms
@@travisbonnett491 Oh so he's supposed to cancel everything and rush out because some assholes decided to take up hate against him without knowing the whole thing and for sure, they would not welcome hound hunters on their property in the middle of the night?
I really enjoyed the meat eater series. I just found this channel a few days ago. I think private property rights are extremely important and I put in countless hours and large dollars on my own hunting property. I do not want anyone on my land disturbing what I created and worked for let alone the invasion of privacy. Now if game is wounded and ends up on a neighboring property it is the correct thing to do to make contact with that owner as best is possible to notify them you need to access their land. I hunt all types of animals and I far and away enjoy nature and the “hunt” more than the end result. I take great care to make sure any animal I take is done so in the quickest and most effective way. From all my experience this is in the best interest of the animal and the meat. I do not support hunting that has the animal go thru long drawn out chases or death by excessive suffering. I find knife hunting, hog and bear hunting with dogs to just be cruel to the animal. That said I do love working upland game dogs and it’s a joy to watch my lab retrieve a duck. I thought that was behind the meat eater mantra of respecting the animal and honoring nature. This idea that you can’t be pro hunting but against a certain method of hunting is ridiculous.
Posting shouldnt really be a responsibility of the landowner, tracking property boundaries should be the responsibility of the Hunter, they disrupt others not the other way around. Not saying the disruption is a bad thing but people who refuse hunting shouldnt be punished in Labour for the benefit of someone elses hobby.
Postings your property and registering to fish and game is absolutely 100% the farmers responsibly not the hunters.its not the hunters responsibly its Morgan's responsibility post his farm when he is the one not wanting hunting on his property 🤷♀️🤷♀️.also who cares if it burden a little hard work will not kill him...wander what he would do if he starts loosing calfs from bears 🤔🤔
@@bonniegrandstaff5500 depends on the land and the owner if its a 'little bit of work' where I am you see hunting signs to define areas where hunting is allowed both private and public, there are also private property signs
Why USA has this backwards? Our hunting lands we have to ask permission from owners and make a written agreement for "renting" hunting rights on the land. Super easy map apps you can make areas from different land patches. Posting your hundreds, thousands of acres to prevent people using them for hunting? geez. You can easily check your property lines online, everyone can check them why you need to manually go post your property when everyone with mobile phone can see where the borders are to X person's land? And we have 30 minutes as a rule, if dog goes to area where you have no hunting permission, you have 30 minutes to fetch it or it's trespassing.
@@nonowitz because its your property and and you need to post it because if someone gets hurt on your property , they can sue you for damages even if they are trespassing better safter then sorry 🤷♀️🤷♀️
im a hunter but dont like hound hunting-----i walk outside my house and my dog HAS to be under my CONTROL at all times.....so why are hunting hounds not under total control at all times?
I started duck hunting, going on my first deer hunt this weekend. I’m new but I can tell you I can’t imagine using a hound in this day and age for bear hunting. Being around a retriever dog in a duck pit, what a wonderful animal to have out there. I believe in humane aspect of hunting to give the other animal a fair chance to evade and run away if I miss my shot (God I hate that feeling when I wasted 2-3 shells at a duck 20 yards away for it to somehow get away). And I think a hunter to put a dog’s life at risk especially in terms to hunting a bear or use one is kinda cheating but then again my family uses dogs to point on quail hunts but for some reason I don’t take issue with that because the dog is not at much risk as trailing down a freaking predator. Just my take, love the videos my guy.
Exactly, totally agree. Bear hunting with hounds isn't real hunting, since the dogs do all the work for the hunter. Additionally, it's incredibly cruel. Dogs should be managed as a tool in a hunt, such as a pointer or a retriever, not as a hunter itself.
Lol. Complains about fairness and animal cruelty but then sits in a stand and sky blasts the hell out of some ducks and probably maimes them into a final few hours of suffering.
Yet when you duck hunt, you will often consider it "a miss" when you actually are maiming the bird, having it fly off injured. Those are the facts. So dont judge other forms of hunting this easily man.
These people are just ignorant, so they try to paint you as the bad guy so they dont have to admit their faults. And sadly there is a lot of people like that and they tend to just reinforce each others opinions without ever looking outside the box. In the end you get exactly what you are seeing now, a group of people with seemingly no interest in logic or fairness. I mean, how messed up is it to paint you as a bad person when all you did was manage your farm when random strangers from across the country show up and demand you let them on your property.... People who think like that are just messed up man, dont let that bs get to you, you are providing 100x more to the area of vermont than those guys.
Thank you for being willing to learn and have civil dialog about this issue. I am sorry there is a lot of people that just want to vilify you instead of listening and talking. I really appreciate voices like yours these days. We need more people on all side of issues who are humble enough to learn and civil enough to have a calm discussion about issues even if they disagree with something. I've never gone hunting but my husband goes deer and small game hunting so we're not completely out of the hunting community. That being said I would agree with you about needing more autonomy of some kind for land owners when it comes to the hound issue. Keep up the good work. I hope your farm and your channel are around for a long time!
This is coming from a fellow farmer... I was the one who paid for my property and my farm with a lot of sacrifices, so there is no way anyone can claim that they should have "the right" to disrespect me and my land. Also, before I got my livestock guard dogs, my biggest single predator loss was losing 17 meat chickens to neighboring domestic dogs. This is fresh in my mind as I see your birds and think about hunting hounds on your property.
@@Detroitdiesel285 that's fine. The information is there. In at least 1000 hunts we have had one incident. Someone's pitbull caught our dogs coming across our road and tried to fight them. We have treed in trees touching people's houses, in their deer camps, and right by their chicken yards and never had an incident caused by our dogs.
@@Detroitdiesel285 congrats to you. You shoot or kill my dogs and I press charges and then sue you. If you claim they were harming or harassing your animals you better have every fact straight because I have GPS record of every movement they make. If they get on your property and you won't allow me to retrieve them, then I have the local game wardens number on speed dial. I promise he is going to be more pissed at the landowner who refuses to let me retrieve my dogs than the hunter when he gets that phone call at 1 am.
I agree with you. And as a side note...our area is FULL of "stray" hounds because they turned out to be poor hunting dogs...and the owners release them into the woods, etc. It is so sad. Hopefully your area hasn't reached that point. You handle yourself well, Morgan.
Honestly I’m just glad you stick to your views and aren’t swayed by those who are trying to mock you or intimidate you into changing your views to theirs. Your opinion is fair and reasonable!
I am a meat-loving American ..I have no problem with hunting BUT if it's me paying the damn taxes on my land .. your rights stop at my property line UNLESS I give you permission CASE CLOSED
Saying that dogs don't understand property lines is a silly argument for hound hunting. If my cows get out and wander into my neighbor's property, I'm responsible for them. I can't just say, 'oh well, cows don't understand property lines.'
“Dogs don’t know when they’re on private property” that’s why hunters should be within a short distance of their dogs. The hunters should be with their dogs, not following from miles away with GPS collars! There’s a reason why they hunt with dogs AND horses in the UK, to STAY WITH THE DOGS
@@gd2234_ well modern GPS technology actually allows you to recall your dogs with sound or shock. And you can easily monitor them on the map so if they go on a property where a hunter is not allowed to hunt they could send that signal and a well trained dog will come back to where they’ve been released
@@jameskearse8617 that is the problem though these dudes didnt train their dogs and they had to drag them away. It was absolutely disgusting to me that they were so pathetic that they call themselves hunters and claim their dogs are trained yet they barely trained them. Dogs will chase things on their own honing that to tree something is only one single part. The real skill is getting them to come back when called etc. There is nothing wrong with gps as a tool when needed but they rely on it too much. These guys arent worthy of claiming their are hound hunters and crying about tradition. Traditional hound hunting isnt nearly such a lazy past time as guys like Butch have made it.
Believe me even a case where hound hunters here in United Kingdom have an appalling record when hounds run out of control and start killing things. It’s bad enough when you’ve got people close to hand you can limit the amount of destruction which happens but even then you see livestock and pets being killed most seasons. Also people exercising the hounds in the bloody things decide to go and kill someone’s cat. The trouble is when the hunt then decides to try and hide the fact and they obviously get found out it gets very messy very quickly. The idea of letting hounds loose without any supervision in real terms in the area where you have livestock it’s just utterly crazy. As much as I dislike hound hunting here in the UK. The hounds are trained to recall when they hear the hunting horn. Which means within reason you can recall these dogs. Why in the hell butch and his friends for instance couldn’t have got the hounds out of someone’s property simply by using a horn is something I don’t understand. There is no reason why those dogs should not be trained to come when called. Even when they’re on pray.
This is overly dramatic, and honestly, the type of thing that causes so many issues in America, in my opinion. This isn't some fantasy book where giving the devil an inch gives him a loophole to take a mile. I think America could really benefit from some true willingness to compromise on issues, and being willing, like Morgan has, to actually put in effort to see things from the other side, and let it influence your opinions. That's what really earns Morgan some respect in my book. It really sets him apart from the standard crap of dismissive ridicule and deliberate misrepresentation.
@@cheongyei Weak Citizens? Apparently what you call weak citizens, I call emotionally mature adults who are smart enough to realize that functional society requires flexibility, cooperation, and compromise.
Hell Yeah. I’m from South Louisiana and stand with him too. Idk how anybody feels that they have the right to run dogs through/on your property. I’ve grown up hunting since I could hold a gun. Louisiana is know as Sportsman’s Paradise for a reason. If they want to run hounds the way they do they need to go somewhere where there’s nobody especially farms for miles upon miles and actually hunt not ride around in their pickups until their hounds Tree a bear then go over and shot it. That’s not hunting. Also RHEC
Steve seems like a cool guy.. He wont mind if me and my friends barge into his property in the middle of the night right and let our dogs wreck havoc while we're at it.
They are blowing it up because that's the way to gain people for your cause; make it sound as worst as possible, make it emotional, because dumb people will follow the flow without thinking deeper.
@@bofa83 I'm pretty sure he was doing what he's always done on this channel... learning about life on his private property. If we got footage of the coyotes and Bobcats and the failed projects and trained cows, then I expect hunters on his property would be recorded too. Now that I'm thinking about it I'm pretty sure all of Morgans animals are trained to come to him in some way. Maybe the hound hunters could learn how Morgan trains his animals. He's got lots of youtube videos. ;)
@@freedomishavingachoice3020 I am in total agreement with Morgan about his property rights, Vermont’s laws about this are strange, his first reaction being to totally ban something he doesn’t like is a bad look. Focus on the property rights, that’s the ticket.
I love your channel. Your intelligent and openness to address issues of concern to you and taking a "let's talk and figure it out" approach is amazing and to your credit. To hear people are disrespectful in the face of that honorable approach is a discredit to them.. you articulate so well and present well in an non convoluted manner. Awesome all the way through 🥰
@@letstrend Property laws very. Some states permit the public to traverse private property without permission. Other states even permit people to camp on private property (so long as they don't become squatters. A camp and go is legal in some states.) There are states where private property is considered private and being told to leave by the land owner is enough, but there are many states with exceptions to that.
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I’m a hunter and I’m with you here; if I was bow hunting and a pack of hounds came by and ruined my hunt, I’d be upset. Rinella showed no regard for private property rights with these comments. Many hunters are not fond of hound hunters.
How is this relevant?
@@brolacoleo1619 how isn’t it?
@@dualthreatoutdoors Kind of with you on that. Like.. how isn't it relevant? It's literally the whole issue XD. Hound hunting disrupting the activities of others because of the lack of control of the dogs and disrespecting private property rights. Hell, I think there have even been incidents of hound hunting dogs attacking hunters. At very least hikers and other people's dogs have been attacked. The current state of hound hunting is downright malicious and dangerous.
@@KuariThunderclaw exactly. I got 100+ likes for the comment, I think Wings of fire is off base here….
@@dualthreatoutdoors I mean, I'd never EVER use likes as a measure of objectivity given how popular some absolutely insane things can be.... but yeah.
It amazes me that people so brazenly misrepresent your argument when you have the entire argument recorded. It is easily verified these people are misrepresenting it.
Some r so ignorant that they wouldn't do research
They are simply lazy and trust biased people.
And controversial content gets more clicks - for the podcast as well as for the videos. While I trust Morgan that he worries about his property and is mission, I don't know about this other dude with significant followership on old media.
I mean, when the southern states seceded they all wrote letters explicitly saying it was to protect the institution of slavery but tons of people are totally happy to ignore the physical evidence & say it was about ANYTHING else. The willfully ignorant don't need FACTS, they have their FEELINGS!
Can't blame them for the tactic. That's how the GQP operates. It works extremely well.
It's like the Meat Eater crew has no research division.
Now that is outdated. Doing any kind of news without someone fact checking you basically makes you Fox News.
As a hunter who regularly hunts public land. It’s fairly easy with todays tech to stay away from and off private land without the landowner posting signs everywhere. I’m a meat eater fan but I have to side with a landowners right to prohibit hunting activity on said land. I don’t let people park in my driveway because they have a valid DL lol. It should be our responsibility as hunters to know where we are. As for hounds that’s another can of worms. I don’t use them so I couldn’t speak about it other than I’ve had hunts on public land get sabotaged by another hunters dogs but thats part of the public land game have to work around it.
I dont get why some people, definitely a minority among hunters, think they have a right to hunt on private land without the owners permission. I could understand someone wanting to pursue a wounded animal you shot in a legal area onto private land, the animal is likely to die anyways, but even then it's pretty iffy. With modern tech any responsible hunter will figure out the boundaries they can hunt well ahead of time, even amateurs do this much less hunting guides. There are quite a few "hunting guides" who claim to be professionals who are in reality just amateurs who want to be paid to go hunting and dont really have a clue of what they're doing and they absolutely need to be called out when they break laws or common sense.
When you hunt with dogs its no different then any other area of life with a dog: they're your responsibility and you have to make sure they follow basic rules and they need to be well trained for the job, and if they break any rules you're 100% responsible for that. I've got a rottweiler, I made sure she's well trained to go hiking through the woods off leash, but if she were to go onto private property or bite someone that would be my responsibility, i cant just shrug my shoulders and claim its not my fault for not watching her, not training her, and bringing her where she didnt belong. Hunting dogs arent really any different, there are strict laws in place governing their use and it's the owners responsibility to watch over them.
Yeah there's apps that show everybody's approximate lot lines these days right? When I was a teenager you just had to try your luck. Wander around the woods till you found a sign lol
When we run our squirll dogs on private land we try to turn out like 10:30 11 that way we don’t bother deer hunters
Couldn't agree more
bingo
The issue seems to be that the Hounders have twisted the story immensely to try and save face. They know they're the ones in the wrong. They know they messed up by having no control of their dogs on someone elses property.
While I do disagree with trying to stop hound hunting in the state I am 100% behind you when it comes to you telling hunters that "No, They are not allowed to hunt on your property"
The only solution I can think of is to somehow get the real story out there.
I think they know hound hunting is going away and the don’t want to admit it. Or they are afraid to admit it.
Never seen a responsible hound hunting party. It is fine to end the practice. Hound r unners can't guarantee they won't abuse the rights of others.
I Absolutely aggree, hound hunters screwed up big time with Gold Shaw Farm and now, when shit hit the fan they are just playing hard to get before the inevitable changes. Inavitable because Morgan has a very good point against current outdated laws for hound hunting.
And this is why you ask permission to use property ***before*** you hunt.
Now, because hound hunters never held their own accountable for not asking first, we don't really care if y'all lose the sport.
The lesson here is if you don't hold crappy people in your own community accountable for immoral behavior, a bigger group well later and you'll look like part of the problem because y'all tolerated crappy people for so long.
Hold your own accountable for their bad behavior please.
Another possibility is hunt by arranged permission at arranged times. Daytime might even work. Don't be disturbing a sleeping farm when the farmer wants peace and quiet. Release quacken, etc. before, and all ducks go to bed afterwards.
Weird how all the people for the "tradition" of hound hunting don't argue facts or want to get into a educated, civil debate in person about it. Rather, they go after a man's character and make fun of the fact that he's not a real farmer because he raises ducks and chickens. That's how you know these guys are 100% wrong. Tradition being used as the excuse to continue hound hunting is not a valid fact to justify violating a landowners' rights. If these guys truly cared about being responsible hunters, they would have a civil meeting in person instead of all of them ganging up on 1 guy and trashing him and his farm via podcasts, radio and TH-cam videos.
I think you touch on a valid point about multi-sided arguments. When one (or both) sides pick out pieces of information that was said to embolden their personal agenda or opinion, it's already a skewed point from a place of an obvious bias, ESPECIALLY when the name-calling and labelling of the other party's character or personal livelihood comes into play. Ones this is done, not only does this NOT help with the resolve between the two disagreeing parties, it just shows how such a person is unwilling to learn and understand all sides of the topic and like you stated, implies some serious 'guilt' on the name-caller's side.
It's not weird at all, they don't have the facts on their side, so they argue everything else, literally - ie "You're not from here, go back to where you came from"---just pure, raw ugliness. That's all they have because that what they are. If they were decent people, they'd have a serious discussion with you, but they're not, so don't expect one.
Tradition has a shelf life. Social media put an expiration date on it.
Morgan tired. Dutch set up this meeting which he controlled , had his own ppl there to intimate Morgan, then Morgan wasn’t allow talk or film. Dutch had a hissy fit and left. I think Dutch just loves to fight, he’ll find someone else he can equal bully and be unfair. Gets off on it.
Gold Shaw is a budding farm. It was not long ago that it had no cattle, but now it does, and these are contented cows for which more infrastructure like a chute or crush is soon coming.
Hunters being jerks are going to bring that jerkitude on their own head. It would be to laugh if it weren't to cry -- to cry for the needless enmity.
Can hunters arrange a consortium to amass swaths of land dedicated to 24/7 hunting? The state will have to get something from it, as nothing is free. But that's another strategy. Fruit and vegetable farming could even coexist with that as long as the hunters stay strictly out of that part. That could be a sublease to others.
Nuance and shepherding can get one where cowboying will not.
I love how they keep stating your not from VT so you get no say in hunting laws. You are a tax payer, Land owner and a full time resident. You have the right to say no trespassing and have a right to change a law. With the GPS tracking yah it’s nice but they have no control of their dogs. And the amount of dogs they get to use is ridiculous. Finally that bear is so scared, so stressed with adrenaline pumping, I bet the meat tastes horrible.
As if those assholes would hunt for the meat.
Most hunters do, of course. But those guys aren't there for nutrition, or recreational hunting, making sure gene diversity keeps on track.
They're there to kill something and brag about it
Exactly
It's probably not about the meat for them altogether. It's kind of like fox hunting I suppose, I don't think fox is eaten at all(at least where I come from we never eat it, it's smelly and gamey), yet it still has many fans and they use hounds.
VT law is supposed to limit it to 6 dogs
In my country ppl who hunt with packs of dogs often behave questionable.
Not only making terrible noise in the forest and scaring all the animals with no regard for people or nature but the worst in my opinion, is the torture of foxes and hunting dogs.
They often train dogs to be aggressive, using wild foxes as the training dummies. Dogs are bitting the foxes and ripping them to shreds often getting badly injured in the process.
Lots of these kind of hunters behaviours and practices indicate that they enjoy the element of dogs fighting the animals or the fear aspect
Also the way some hunters breed and keep their dogs is questionable at times.
I don’t think Rinella would be too happy if hound hunters showed up on his land multiple times. Hound hunting should be legal on private property, but hefty fines should be issued to hunters who’s dogs trespass onto other people’s property.
and if they have the control over their dogs like they say they do, then it shouldnt be an issue for them :)
@@jlcrimm1 Fragile and toxic masculinity
He probably lives in a iron wrought gated ranch house.
Little winne syndrome is the professional term
I don’t think he would care. Rinella’s brother has a property and he puts up signs “trespassers are welcome”
There’s a REASON why hunting bears with hounds is outlawed in many states.
There’s also a reason why property rights supersede hunting privileges.
That's the thing that bugs me the most about this. As I think of hunters, I tend to think of libertarian minded folks generally. Except, apparently, the liberty of land owners ends whenever a hound decides to run onto their land?
These folks are absurdly selfish.
Which isnt true because hunters hunt to fill freezers.
@@alexmichaud6171 I’ve been hunting longer than you have been on this planet, junior. Get back to me when you have a well thought out counterpoint to my comment. Assholes like that bear hunter give ALL hunters a bad name.
@@alexmichaud6171
Are you really telling me that they actually eat a black bear. Or they actually eat raccoon or Mountain lion or bobcats. Or coyote? Possibly they might take the meat and use it as pet food or to feed to say pigs, birds of prey or exotics but I doubt people would eat a predator given a choice.
@@alistairjamesheaton9155 some people do eat those animals, that is correct
Huge hunter, outdoorsman, passionate supporter of PUBLIC LAND ACCESS guy here, and a fan of MeatEater and Rinella, but well done on this response. Well explained, positioned, and rational in all ways. I'm with you dude. Rinella got this one wrong.
I wish America did public land like Canada did. You can go on any public land in the country, walk into a forest, chop a tree down, start a fire, whatever. That would probably stop nearly all these gripes about violating private property
@@GlorifiedGremlin you can go on any public land in the US. The biggest problem with public land in the US is that the majority of public land is "land locked" meaning it is surrounded by privately owned land, and the landowners do not allow access into their property to get to the public land.
@@GlorifiedGremlin if you're in a dry state theres a bit of an issue with just simply starting a fire though. That's why theres designated camping areas. Lots of trouble with wildfires.
@@Kimmie6772 In Canada they have this peat material in the ground that can sometimes ignite from a fire directly on the floor, and a fire will start underground and find roots and grow exponentially. But it hardly happens, just gotta educate people
Bottom line is it doesn't matter what they think of where you came from, what you're farming, or the scale of that farm. It also doesn't matter if you post youtube vids. You are the land owner. Full stop. There isn't some public easement to your land and what you're proposing isn't out of step with other states in the country. Steve is playing to his audience and he knows who they are. You don't need to go to Montana to explain it because Montana law has exactly what you're asking for. "The law requires every hunter to have permission from the landowner, lessee or agent before hunting on private property regardless of whether the land is posted or not."
If he was interested in being 'fair and balanced" then he would have contacted Morgan directly for his take on the situation. Speak directly to him. I agree he is probably just ginning up his base audience or misconstrued, misunderstood the position of the person that he was discussing.
@@deedrole5296 Yeah but this wouldn't be as controversial and getting far less clicks on the podcast. He has the hunter community of the hounders now; after this it's Morgan's community which wants to hear how it's going. Cross-promotion at it's best.
If just a percentage of the whole is staying as regulars, he has won something.
People like this Steve guy aren't interested in facts, they are only interested in clicks. Nuff said.
Agreed.
Amen
It's alarming to see Steve talking like this. He can say what he wants. But if you don't have the property owners permission then you need to respect his decision to do as he wishes on the land he has guardianship/ownership of. This country life and hunting being intertwined position is ridiculous to start with. Plenty of farmers don't hunt at all. Many don't support hound hunting. By his standards you are lesser of a person if you don't and that hunters do more for the countryside than farmers who manage their land 365 days a year in a sustainable ethical manner. What shocks me the most is his outwardly dismissive nature towards anyone who wasn't born in an area and for him to define what country life is shows the ego of the man. For someone to be build his brand on encouraging more people to take up hunting but in the same breathe talk down on anyone not born into it like he was shows the bubble he exists in.
Underrated comment!
i liked Steve's content before but this will seriously make me reconsider... it shows a petty and immature thought pattern so easily write someone off with a label like he appears to be doing...
Exactly. What bothers me about what Steve Rinella said on the podcast is, from how he looked at Morgan's videos (to be able to name some of the video titles), he clearly *could have* researched through Morgan's videos. He *could have* reached out to Morgan for his side of the story. He *could have* done the bare minimum and at least try to get a clear picture of what happened. With that, he could have instead chosen to use his platform to advocate for responsible hunting.
But he didn't. He went with the cheap, easy narrative. He fed into the "look at these anti-hunting city folk" narrative. And he so painfully and completely misrepresented the entire situation with Morgan and the houndhunters. And instead he made hunting look bad and all the more bro culture-y for it.
Steve is against anyone trying to end a form of hunting in general. This guy is trying to end a form of hunting. Steve brought up about the posting. If he wants people off his land....again post it. In many states have these same laws and it isn't that difficult as he makes it out to be. Btw....there is also intent when comes to posting....even if one is knocked down like he talks about. But he talks about owners rights....he also has to make sure he does things right as well. He is making excuses when he talks about posting.
If he wouldn't be trying to make hound hunting illegal and just lost his land. He would be set. Look at all the effort he is going thru with these vids, editing these vids, etc about hound hunting....he could have posted his land.
Btw...watch Steve's tv show when he went hunting with hounds.
@@charlessmith5436 but he isn't trying to make it illegal. Obviously you didn’t watch this video where he clearly spells out he’s looking for compromise.
As a professional wildlife conservationist, your take on living off your local land, and taking the correct precautions to do so safely alongside wildlife that benefits your land, is exactly the sort of thing my career field is working to achieve all over. Love what you're doing and you've inspired me to follow the self sustaining farm route once I've saved enough to get started!
In one book I wrote, Mr. Jimmy says in a thick cajun accent, He was half way and you played him to hard.
But the outdoor cats… no bueno.
@@gamedinnah what about his working farm cats isn't ok?
@@brambleon Cats kill an insane amount of native bird species (also reptiles, amphibians, etc.). The proven, negative effects that outdoor cats have on native species far outweigh the positive effects of rodent control. Which, by the way, can be achieved through other methods. As professional wildlife conservationist, the OP of this reply thread would likely agree.
@@gamedinnah Interesting comment. I personally want Terriers for my "Rodent" problems when I get a farm. I love Yorkshire Terriers, they are amazing little hunters. Cats seem to eat mice, but the Terriers are trained to hunt them. Granted... My Yorkshire terrier does love to kill/play-with Lizards and Frogs...
In Finland there are hunting clubs which members are landowners of that area where they hunt. Of course not every land owner is a hunter so they ask every landowner for permission to hunt and to take into consideration. And if the animal is killed in someone's land they get a tribute of meat from the kill. We also have everyman's rights which allows you to wander the woods. But you cannot go into someone's yard where there are farms.
Its kinda hilarious that even in such a free country as finland where everyone can walk on your (not house yard or close to house/infastructure) property we still dont allow hunting unless you have property owners permission or own the property. Btw having everymans rights is the best thing ever.
We have the same system in Norway, but without the meat tribune (unless you demand it as a land owner I guess). Seems to work pretty well!
In America, we have a lot of privileges people feel very passionately about.
@@amund9173 yes it's a cultural thing mostly. sign of good faith.
To be fair...in the US what these hunters did was illegal as well. His land is posted and he was very polite about asking them to leave. Maybe if he had a shotgun with him and was an ass they wouldnt be trying to bully him.
And all of this push back and distortion because you post about your life, experiences and thoughts.
It is lovely to see your openness and willingness to continue to be informed, without it threatening your person. Bravo Gold Shaw farms
As a hunter, who heard your story first on the Meateater podcast, I definitely side with you and your rights to protect your property. I absolutely don’t agree that hound hunting should be banned (and I don’t hound or bear hunt) but just because you hunt with a dog doesn’t mean you can just go wherever the hell you want, other peoples property be damned
As a non hunter I don't want to ban hunting.
I just want hunters to use only the land they were invited to.
Clearly we're on the same page but no one's told butch to turn to the next chapter. It makes me want to say no to the next person who asks to hunt on our property. What if they have disrespectful friends like Butch?
I'd rather not take the chance. Sorry he made you look bad. You don't deserve that.
"Hunting" with dogs isn't even real hunting. Essentially, your dog(s) do the majority of the tracking and trapping (and unfortunately, sometimes the killing,) for you, while you follow them around and shoot an animal that has literally no ability to get away from you.
These days you don't even NEED control of your dogs; you can just hook a GPS up to them and eventually locate them on a map. How is that sporting? My family comes from deer, turkey, duck hunting lineage....bear "hunting" and coon "hunting" with hounds is disturbing and pathetic.
I've been a Meateater fan for a long time, before Gold Shaw, but he was extremely unfair to Gold Shaw.
I live in Oregon, we don't have Vermont's loose definition of trespassing, but we have public land. My dream is a farm in free ranging birds, cows and guard dogs. I want Kangals because I expect wolves to eventually spread throughout the State, so I'd need wolf killers. They'd be hound killers too, and I don't want that for anyone involved.
Vermont's trespassing laws are far to onerous, the fact that you have to do so much work annually, is pretty insane. Purple laws are a great compromise, but if they want to stick to signage and registration it should be every 5 or 10 years.
Hear hear!
They didn't, they asked him first and he granted them permission to be on his land in this instance.
RE: MeatEater Team: "...because he is SO CONCERNED that a dog may come on his land..." As a farmer...YEAH. YEAH WE ARE CONCERNED. Keep your dogs tf away from my farm. How is this even in question? No farmer wants a semi-feral hunting dog with no training to obey commands and only a gps collar to get reeled in when they rampage out too far anywhere near their farm. If you're a farmer that wants dogs running around your property and your animals with absolutely no leash or control of any kind please comment below. I'd love to know who tf wants their property and animals in danger so some out of state entitled jacks can drag a mangled predator home that cannot, even at bare minimum, be harvested for meat or hide after they're torn apart. Let alone even have the effing grace and respect to be present when that animal meets their end. Enlighten me how this disgraceful act PLUS putting our animals and property at risk is totally A-OKAY and worth defending as a practice that should continue to the next generation of farmers and hunters.
Hunters look down upon farmers in general. No surprise.
Well said!
Bravo, well said. And if the hunters do,look down theirs noses at those who farm ( even if it isn't beef steak cattle.) Where do they think,their eggs, bacon goose ,duck or Turkey at Christmas comes from. Just ignorant entitled male Karens
I feel bad for the hunting dogs, they are practically doing it because its their purpose and are put in danger by the hunters.
It's retarded, there's no reason a dog is allowed on someone else private property, especially for hunting, and there's no reason anyone should be wandering onto a farm. The hunter was being an entitled jackass and MeatEater should know better and had a bad take on the situation. Even if the hunting dogs were well trained they could spook livestock who may escape or hurt themselves, the guard dog could protect his territory and attack the hunting dogs (justifiably), and if the hunting dogs werent well trained (which they didnt appear to be) they could kill livestock or attack the guard dog, and the hunters quarry could break things, hurt someone, hurt livestock, attack the guard dog, or spook the livestock too.
Again, do not back down to these people. They are trying to scare you off. What you're trying to stop isn't really asking to much of these hunters. Just control your damn dogs and don't go onto private property! That's it! They are the ones turning this into a bigger deal then it should be. Clearly they never had "rules" before and are acting like stubborn children.
It’s not that simple, you can’t just tell a dog to stop when it’s chasing after it’s quarry, hunting is bred into these hounds dna, and no matter how well trained they are, 9 times out of 10, they’re gonna chase that bear. Dogs don’t know property lines, they go where the bear goes
@@logangower8615 Doesn't matter. Private property is private property, and controlling hunting dogs is the hunter's responsibility, not the landowner's problem. Inability to control dogs doesn't excuse trespassing.
@@cobalt1754 I agree, but I just think people could go a little easier on houndsman, housedogs get in neighbors yards, same as hunting dogs, what would you do if your dog got on someone’s land and they said that you couldn’t go get it back
@@logangower8615 do you know how many dogs my uncle has had to shoot in SC? Tons. These hunting dogs always stumble on private property and will attack and kill anything in it's way. They're vicious and should never be allowed to be miles away from their owner running a muck. These "hound hunting" dogs have killed cats, chickens, 2 turkeys, and attacked other dogs in the small neighborhood my uncle lives in that butts up against acres of woods that are frequently hunted. The owners of the houses just shoot all the dogs that come onto their property now without hesitation because of the shit they do. So unless hunters want their dogs dead, they need a better system.
@@logangower8615 also how is it real hunting when you have the dog doing all the work? Our ancestors would laugh. If you can't keep your dogs in check and keep them off private property then maybe hound hunting should be eliminated all together. It's a risk to everyone and everything when they're loose. Many things have changed over the years because they realized it wasn't in the best interest of many, so I say, do away with it.
I’ve enjoyed Steve Rinella’s work and am definitely pro-hunting. However the derogatory, demeaning way he spoke about the Gold Shaw Farm came across snobbish to say the least. Surprised and disappointed by his behaviour. You go ahead and take care of your animals and land how you see fit.
They are both Snobs in different ways.
@@joeyricefried9621 , that's not true. And totally unfair. This channel does everything possible to see others post of views. If you were a land owner, you would understand how violated one feels when hunters come with guns and dogs to kill the wildlife on YOUR private property. No one should have to tolerate that.
he probably lost more then he gained from making those comments
I am an avid hunter and totally understand your point about ur pri ate property and hunters running dogs . I ha e 100 acres private property surrounded by dog hunters and its annoying when ur in a tree stand and deer dogs come howling through ur farm
@Jonathan Carty me? how? explain how you came to that conclusion based on what i said? you got issues bud
Sounds like Vermont has deliberately made it complex and difficult to simply say “this is my property, please don’t hunt on it.” 🤔
And some of the hunting community is angry that landowners have the right at all.
Don’t worry, Morgan. If the guy couldn’t be bothered to learn your NAME, the offer to give you a mic and talk wasn’t sincere.
My thoughts too... This is intentional to go against the property owners
Exactly! I dont understand why these people are making such a big deal of a guy who doesn't want loose dogs running a muck on private property!
It's not complex and difficult, it's illegal.
it's not that hard for a hunting organisation to ask all the land owners if it's okay to hunt on their land. The ywant to hunt, they go around the neighbourhood for a bit. It makes so much more sense that by default you are not allowed to hunt on others land, and you just ask for permission. If they think it's such a good thing for the land owners, it should be easy to get that yes from most land owners!
@@Tsuchimursu according to Morgan, he has to register his land each year if he doesn’t want to hunted upon. Be pretty easy to go get that list and not hunt in that area.
I killed my first deer with my dad on Thanksgiving day when I was 15 years old. And dad always told me if you have to use a bunch of dogs to tree your prey then you're not a very good hunter.
not good, but efficient. xD *releases 1000 dogs, gets 500 bears* Be good if you were like trying to market/sell the meats to the neighboring cities. I digress, you are right. just wanted to make the little quip
Also, if you're using dogs to tree your deer.... you might not know what a deer is?
/jk
I was amazed when I learned that hunters can come on my land without my permission to hunt deer. (I was a recent transplant from rural Arizona to rural Oregon.... and from a suburban lot to 10 acres). We posted the land and later fenced it (ten acres is a lot easier to fence than 160.)
I'm probably seen as a "bleeding heart liberal" but I also have a great deal of respect for farmers and those living much closer to the real world than you get in a city (I grew up in Silicon Valley).
The video where the bearded guy showed up having treed a bear on Morgan's property was very *very* uncomplimentary to Butch (I think that was his name) and I think that he spoke with Morgan in two ways. Sometimes he spoke to Morgan as if he was a city-slicker who needed to be set straight, and sometimes he spoke to him like he might speak to and with his buddies. The problem is that the view that "I'd sure like to own some slaves," might be a popular one in Butch's circle of friends, but it's not very popular in general. He also basically admitted that the only way that he can do his hound-hunting is by allowing the dogs to take off after the critters. he couldn't continue to do his preferred method of hunting if he had to keep up with the dogs, or keep them within sight.
The landowners rights are bogus. If the sign comes down, then it's not posted properly? Sounds like it was written so that any hunter who wants to hunt on anyone's land, if they encounter the sign, can remove it and legally trespass.
Guess I'm never moving to Vermont.
I'd say it's highly likely that Butch set it up so that he was hunting in Morgan's neck-of-the-woods.
I grew up in a house of hunters (I couldn't do it personally, I was too much of a bitch, lol) but they ALWAYS respected the environment of the hunt. That meant any (body) living in that area, their animals (be it farm or not) and of course, control of our dogs. No, we didn't need leashes or collars to "hold" them down. But they absolutely knew when to stop n go. But they always didn't take the dogs either. I can understand the dog aspect for bigger prey (bears in this example) but for deer? Nah, you are a bad hunter if you can't properly hunt a deer. It's so frustrating to see Morgen going through this. Even more frustrating how hunters are just downsizing him because of the size of his farm or, god forbid, have a fucking YT channel. I like watching Morgens content because I would love to be back on the farm but, I just don't have the time or energy. So I live vicariously through Morgen.
Your dad is an idiot then. Hound hunting literally dates back tens of thousands of years.
@@theconsciouscorgi2103 oh waaa does it hurt your little feelings that I said that? Why? Oh you're one of those hunters...is it the big dog pack or the big gun that helps you compensate?
Always would have thought Steve would be the type of guy to respect private property rights. It's literally a cornerstone of democracy.
Tbh, I don't think he had really thought about this situation properly. In my opinion, Steve isnt too bright, and I often get the impression he's lead more by his ego than his brain. He seems more preoccupied by trying to sound smart, than actually being smart. Half the stuff he says is just flat out wrong, illogical, or contradicts something he previously said.
@@pegleg2959 sounds like a republican :P
@@GoodKnight5252 stupidity knows no political boundaries.
You mean capitalism?? Lots of democratic societies don’t have private property….
@@GoodKnight5252 so you mean he’s successful and not a liberal bum
Morgan, if the meat eater Podcast really wanted your perspective, They would have reached out to you for a comment before posting their Podcast. I think they are just jumping on the bash gold Shaw farms bandwagon for the engagement. Do not assume they actually want to have a conversation in good faith.
The Podcaster behaves like he is jockeying for a shock jock pole position. All lies, lies, and more damnable lies. No basis for any truth at all. However, I'm in the market for a guard dog/trained killer like Toby. LOL
How disappointing to be treated like that by someone you have admired. I am so sorry. Your response is amazingly graceful and logical.
He deserved it, Steven is 100% correct. This Morgan clown is a cry baby.
ND went to Electronic Posting this year. I'm a hunter and I love it. There is no ambiguity. Its either posted or its not. The landowner no longer has to constantly check to see if their signs are up, and I don't have to worry if the land was meant to be posted but a sign fell down.
To me the radio host is stupid. He compares a hound hunter to a visitor to your house. Wrong. It's more like someone who's dogs ran into your house chasing a racoon and then went ahead to retrieve them but you saw them in your house, they then asked you if it's ok to retrieve them. But then they are ALREADY inside. If you are the owner of the house wouldn't you have some sort of careful instinct towards a complete stranger walking into your house? Is it then, wrong for you to record it on video in case something happens while they were in your house? That's a better comparison but the host is obviously biased and like a common biased news network he set his mind to make you the villain in his story.
Ok, so this gave me visions of A Christmas Story and the hounds getting into their house and eating their turkey.
If someone burst into your house without permission at 4am yelling and running around, you'd be in your rights to shoot them.
Butch clearly knows how to cross boundaries and is almost sociopathic in his attitude towards your rights.
Butch was very respectful. He pulled up and showed his ID and asked to retrieve his dogs. If my dog runs off and comes onto somone’s yard I usually feel pretty safe about going over there to grab her. My neighbors has never given me shit about it and never recorded me.
@@jameskearse8617 because you're there to get your troublesome dog out of their way. You didn't jump into their yard after your dog and then nose around, and act entitled to their BBQ and some fresh cut flowers out of their garden.
I feel like you are honestly trying to work with these people and inviting open discussion and they're giving you the run around or making snarky comments without even trying to actually understand your view point. I feel like you're open to changing your opinion but they go in knowing what they want to believe and twist anything of you they can to try to prove their right. Not a good look for these people.
It's politics, and all about who has the most influence as to how the laws are written. So far, the hound hunters have had the biggest influence on law makers, until now. Morgan had substantial influence to change the laws for the first time in centuries, and they're scared. When they come at you hard as they are, they're for sure intimidated!
The issue is Morgan is calling for an outright ban on something rather than bolstering property owners rights.
@@TheMindfulHomestead 13:59 Maybe you should watch the whole video before commenting?
@@WanderTheNomad I saw that. But the petition is still up. Until then.
@@TheMindfulHomestead the issue really is the lack of adult communication with the hounding community to come to an agreement of any kind. He tried to talk sensibly to them to possibly come to some sort of mutual agreement, but the whole community isn't receptive and is not open to compromise on the matter so this was his solution. It's not the best solution for all parties involved, but what can you expect?
This doesn’t look like a coincidence to me. Suddenly, a couple of out of state sports hunters show up at your farm two days after you launched the petition randomly luring a bear into your property? This looks like a planned provocation by them to me. Stay strong mate, protect your property!
@@vitalioso vermont has a huge bear population. they would have found one at any point on the land.
Still his property . Not hard to understand.
Very funny so true
It would be hard to get a bear on his property though
@@gothsuccthyme2276 would have or could have?
The sign law is a joke! Obviously if it isn't the bear hunters land, then he knows he is trespassing! How is an elderly or disabled land owner supposed to keep up with the yearly postings? What stops a bear hunter from tearing down a sign and then say... Oh there wasn't a sign there???? You never opposed to hunting, it was the control of the dogs or lack of control!
Right?! There are plat books and now apps that show property lines and who owns the property, no excuses any more.
The sign law is clearly supposed to be annoying to keep up so that hunters can get access to your land. That's the only reason I can see for it to be that way
It's not a joke and it's extremely important. How is a person supposed to know what is public and private land if it's not marked? There is public land all over the United States directly next to private property. You can hunt/hike/walk/camp/etc. in one spot and 20 feet away is private property. There is no way to tell the difference unless it's marked.
@@scottmc1855 the joke is that the required signage can be easily "lost/removed" and the hunter can claim ignorance. They should do the purple paint. Very hard to have your purple painted posts and trees suddenly not there.
@@Fiona2254 thank you, obviously I should of clarified that for some people!
Gotta be honest… when I first clicked the video, I was like “eh he’s gonna go and rant on some crazy anti hunting sentiment.”
I was pleasantly surprised. You did a great job at pointing out nuances not captured by the meateater podcast - well spoken and your point of view was clear and very compelling. I have a lot of respect for that and also the willingness for compromise and finding a mutually agreeable middle ground.
This whole thing could've been avoided if those hound hunters respected private property. The whole conversation/debate over the morality of traditional hound hunting wouldn't even come up.
@@1414siamks they did respect his property and told him his dogs are on his property and ask to retrieve his dogs,
And it was during the day,
I don't think the bear guys did as much wrong as the racoon hunters,
The racoon hunters where in the wrong,
But not by choice, because the racoon went on his property, and at a disturbing time of day,
I think it was the combination of all the factors, perfect storm so to speak.
I think the property rights should supercede the hunt, always get permission first,
Tracking a healthy animal or a wounded animal, wounded animal Tracking should always have the authorities notified after an unsuccessful attempt of recovery. They use dogs to track wounded animals too. And the authorities can smooth things out before they get out of hand ✋🙄
I love how other people like "picking apart" all of your youtube videos despite the fact that you're a very successful content creator with a sizeable following. It just screams "I'm intimidated and jealous of his succes and fearful of his reach". Keep doing the awesome work creating awesome content. You ARE making a difference!
He's not God, but for God's sake there sure is room for people to be considerate.
@@SeekingTheLoveThatGodMeans7648 are you referring to Morgan?
@@SeekingTheLoveThatGodMeans7648 Why are you bringing up God?
Uhm Meateater is way more successful. You might not have heard of it in your circles but they have a first ever hunting show in the history of Netflix and they have a really good TH-cam channel too
@@jameskearse8617 I've heard of him before and you're right, I'm not a subscriber. That said, it doesn't mean that since I'm female I'm not subbed to any hunting channels. Quite the contrary. Besides, he is really not that far ahead of Morgan subscriber wise, and to speak of him the way he has with not a spec of impartiality, which is what a good creator would do, speaks volumes. It's not uncommon for a creator to feel threatened by another creator and try to "cancel" them or to try and ruin their credibility. They get so caught up in the attention that they feel they have to compete with other channels to gain subs. It's sad but a very real reality. He could have handled the situation way better in my opinion, and I'm positive he's threatened by Morgan's reach in this issue.
I wonder what would have happened if you had simply denied the old guy with the bear hounds access to your land. If you had simply told him to recall his hounds from the road. He might have lost a few dogs without being able to recall. Sure you can't stop the dogs but the hunter has no right to access. If he cant recall the dogs then that is simply his problem.
Wouldn't have mattered since permission wasn't required because the land wasn't posted.
Once he came to Josh’s door and asked permission he has acknowledged the land owners right. Had he denied permission at that time it would be trespassing to go further.
I don't think it works like that. Even if he doesn't give them permission to be on his land they still have the right to get their animals
Clearly it may be different in Vt however it might not be. He can check with a local attorney
@@GoldenMechaTiger If Morgan denied them access to his land, they would not have been able to get their dogs. That's the law in VT. But Morgan was considerate to them and their animals, they should be considerate also---you tend to get a better solution when you work WITH people.
Nice rebuttal, I listened to that podcast a while back and was hoping to hear you side of the story. I follow the Meateater media and am a big fan but thought that story sounded a little one sided. Good job putting out your side of the story. Well done, your explanation was very well thought out and clearly stated your case
I wounder why you and other meateater fans still use their media? since they obviusly lack any objectivity.. Why would they run a podcast without asking for the otherside to provide their point of view?
@@GoodKnight5252 Guy in this video was very misleading. They did not go onto the property intentionally. Their dogs followed the bear onto the property. Whether or not, that’s the truth is to be determined. The argument was never if they’re allowed to hunt on his property it’s just to retrieve their dogs. The guy in this video is intentionally changing the story when the meat eater crew just didn’t have a lot to go off of.
I dont think participating in the podcast would mean anything, to be honest. To me, it looks like those guys already have an opinion just by listening to one side of the story. If you participate, all they will do is make fun of you and wave off every concern you have. They will make you the joke and you will not accomplish anything. I mean, you can try but... I dont see a reason. They clearly made up their mind. There is not much you can do.
Yeah, this is how things work. Once one side decides the other is a threat, they will try to trample that person, involve as much media as possible, make up stories about them, crack jokes about them, demean their efforts and their dignity... Like kindergarten, really. Once the majority of people hears their side, it is really difficult to make them listen to the other because an opinion was already formed.
I dont think so. If you participate and you have everything you want to say ready and overall keep your cool and argue with dignity there will always be people who think you might actually be right. It doesnt matter if the host doesnt think so. It only matter what you can tell to people listening the podcast. It isnt always winning a single battle. Sometimes you have to lose to get more support and morgan is definitely getting more support everytime he keeps his calm collective attitude. Overall he will bring the dignity of the hosts down if they just keep harassing him and him keeping totally cool about it. I know in united states sometimes the one who shouts the loudest wins(looking at most of your elections) but i have hopes its not always the case.
I don’t. Steve is really great at talking with people with opposing views, and I suspect that once he had all the facts he would see things differently.
@@teemuhasu2302 It depends on the listeners of the podcast, ultimately. But if the guy is so ignorant already, then I can only imagine how ignorant his fans must be if they think he is a cool guy to listen to. Is he getting angry feedback after this podcast from his fans?
I don't know this podcast dude but he seems able to differentiate between the sides. It just seems as if he had a lot of biased people around who brought up the issue to him.
And no media dude with a clear mind let's go of a spicy story if it comes to the doorstep, if you know what I mean.
@@Rentaro89 exactly. He says on the podcast that a lot of people were telling him about it. If he watched the videos I think he would have a different opinion. Not necessarily about banning hound hunting, but definitely about the behavior of the hunters.
I'm 100% certain your calm, rational, respectful and very measured response is not at all what they were expecting. And I still don't understand this hatred of your TH-cam videos. Do hunters instinctively hate TH-cam? You make wholesome, family-friendly, entertaining, informative videos about running your new farm. Weird.
They might(and this is just speculation) just hate anything that reminds them of the crowds and cities, including being active on forms of social media.
They make their own YT videos they all want the green
It’s called entitled rich kid try’s to come off cool to his loyal puppet base
They don't hate youtube it sounds like it's a way for them to take shots at shaw and try to make him feel down about the work he does. The owner of the meateater podcast also does hunting videos on youtube. I'm really upset about what Steve & his podcast said about shaw & his farm. I really liked steves work can't believe he would say this.
Those insecure "manly men" are trying to portrait him as silly, making videos of puppies and ducklings. It just shows how pathetic they are, making fun of someone's honest work. I don't like hunting but I always respected hunters, especially for what they do to protect salt marshes around here. But this whole drama is making me disgusted with them more and more. I hope it's just several vocal bad apples not the whole community.
@@horace6851 just think those kids that killed and tortured animals for fun all funnel down into one hobby...
Got to laugh at "he comes to the country and tries to tells us what to do" THEY CAME ON TO YOUR LAND??? Until they came and tried to push you around you didn't have anything to do with them. To me they tried to throw themselves at a "city farmer" thinking you were an easy target and then cried when they realised you weren't going to back down or play their games. Good on you keep it up.
Wow... for some reason, I didn't see it from that perspective. LOL that's a good one. And its not really "their land". That's the sad part. Given country folks are often staunch pro-USA, they seem to forget rights of fellow *private* citizens.
Except that they didn't go on his land. They asked permission to retrieve dogs that tracked a bear onto his land..
@@ElemXCR I agree, but you have to look at it from the locals viewpoint as well.. they’ve lived and hunted probably on and through that land, their whole lives, and now someone new is there changing everything.. Vermont has deep hunting, traditions and usually we allow people to cross our land. Bernie Sanders has destroyed Vermont.
That meat eater podcast guy is super uninformed. And in a way egging on the bullying and harassment to continue towards you over this hound hunting stuff. It is your land. Where we live you come onto private property you get shot. Not saying I would shoot someone but others would. You have a right to your privacy and safety on your own land. The Vermont laws for home and landowners needs to be changed so it is no so hard for you and others to keep hunters and trespassers off.
Especially since people can take down a landowner’s signs and be like oh see it’s totally fine you’re not properly posted
If it was the other way around, where hunters only had permission if the land was posted I can guarantee you those signs wouldn’t just mysteriously disappear :/
This is a foreign concept to me as a Texan; if anyone walks onto your land with a weapon without your permission, you can legally tell them to leave. If they don't go, you call the police. If they become threatening, you take action. Doesn't matter what they're doing, that's it, at least from what I know. Hound hunting (this style of it) isn't really a thing here (at least none of the hunters I know), probably because people realize their dogs would get shot by landowners. Not saying it's right, but there's some implied rules around here and severe consequences are occasionally applied. Some people probably find that horrifying, but, again, there's not much loose hound hunting going on, so the rules seem to work. A farmer's animals count just as much as, if not far more than, a hunter's animals. Don't threaten a landowner with potentially untrained, lethal animals that you're not 100% in control of. Down here, that kind of stunt gets the dog or the hunter hurt.
Edit: confirmed by my parent, hound hunting is just illegal here. Y'all, if Texas outlaws a form of hunting, then it's not really a valid form of hunting.
You mean Texas? The place with dozens of invasive terrestrial species, high-fence “hunting”, posted signs as the state flower, and a whole host of other non-native species? No thanks. You can keep it. I’m obviously being a bit antagonistic, but Texas is VERY far from being the poster child for fair-chase hunting and sound ecological conservation.
Steven has always seemed so reasonable to me. I guess I am naive because I legit thought he was going to be on your side. Every time I’ve seen him hunt he’s doing all the hard work and it’s a fair contest between man and beast. The hunts he’s done on private land has always been with permission. I’ve only seen him being respectful.
I can’t believe Steven was using such a snotty tone of voice and accidentally or willfully misrepresenting the facts.
Steven is super protective of his family I find it hard to believe that he would be cool with his household being awaken in the middle of the night and stressing out the pets in his household.
Vermont is very small and usually we let our neighbors hunt through our land.. these socialist liberals are blowing it way out of proportion
I am a hunter and a subscriber and am 100% in agreement with your sentiments. The posting laws seem onerous to the landholder. I agree with updating existing laws due to GPS which is now readily available to hunters.
GPS actually let’s owners have greater control over their dogs. Most of these collars are equipped with recall ability where you could signal your dogs to return to you
@@jameskearse8617 If Butch and co were using GPS collars, meaning that Butch and Co simply could have issued a command to retrieve them, then why did Butch need permission to go onto Morgan's property to find and retrieve them? Whichever way you slice it, I smell bullshit.
@@andrewrichards312 dogs do not always follow a command. Especially so when the dog is excited and distracted.
@@brianwarden1972 you've just made an argument as to why GPS collars are unreliable enough that they shouldn't replace forms of hound hunting where hunters remain in close proximity to their dogs.
@@andrewrichards312 gps as far as I know is super reliable and yet has nothing to do with a recall feature. Staying “close” is a relative term and practically impossible to enforce as well as impractical for hunting.
The posting law is silly at best... This just means that if you want to enter a private property - all you need to do is knock down a sign and say that you never saw it. I mean - who will prove you were the one to take it down? To make sure your property is and will stay posted you'd have to have surveliance on whole border!
Morgan, I 100% support your as well anyone's Property Rights I support your efforts to improve and diversy your tree ecosystem. I think you should address the archaic sign posting requirements. I personally have had signs ripped down by hunters.
The way he keeps saying "duck farmer" robs me wrong. Makes it seem like what morgan is doing isn't actual farming. Just my two cents.
In trying to insult Morgan in any conceivable way, they are demeaning supporters. There are corn farms, blueberry farms, farms that raise sheep, farms that raise cows, and turkey farms. Chickens and ducks don't count...? It's like saying a farm largely dedicated to tomatoes isn't a farm because there are a lot of people with tomatoes in their gardens?
It is a form of ad hominem argument. Essentially, attack Morgan rather than his argument. "After all, what does he know, he is just a Duck Farmer!"
It is a dishonest tactic. It makes his offer for discussion to be disingenuous, I am afraid if Morgan takes him up on it ... Morgan will be talked to, rather than be in a discussion.
@@Starannify WE HAVE TREE FARMS lol
According to the USDA you can register a farm as long as it is at least 20' x 20' and have an agricultural business on it such as bee hives... oh wait, that would make bee keeping farming too! Growing trees is a farm as well!
Hound hunting is NOT sportsmanlike!! The dogs are doing all the work FOR THEM. It would be like a golfer in a tournament getting Tiger Woods to get the ball close to the hole for them so it’s easier to win
That’s not at all how hound hunting works, I disagree with the trespassing aspect but hound hunting should now be banned
It'd be like if Tiger Woods got his caddie to play the whole course for him just for him to sink in the final putt on the 18th hole...
More like training your dog to pick up the ball and take it to the pin and drop it a foot away.
Hope Gold Shaw makes it on the podcast. I'd love to hear the conversation and honestly believe they'd come to a pretty quick understanding.
Indeed, this seems like a pretty clear cut misunderstanding. Steve for sure didnt have the details and built his whole way of thinking on a wrongful assumption.
The old guy (who the podcast defends despite him literally endorsing slavery) said he was open to a later conversation too and then he ghosted you completely, and was openly hostile when you went to his public meeting just to listen and kicked you out. I bet this podcaster will do the same. They say they are open for discussion, block you and make it look like you didn’t want to talk. Garbage political way of doing things. I hope everything’s better soon but with their attitudes I don’t see how a conversation can even start, much less reach a compromise.
I agree. Considering how the podcast mischaracterized Morgan, his farm, the hound hunters' actions, and Morgan's disagreement with the practice, it's not hard to see that they're probably looking for an on-air punching bag-- not someone to have a respectful conversation with.
I dont know anything about Steve Rinella but what I gather from this video, he's kind of a hypocrite. Making fun of morgan for making YT vids while he's doing Podcasts.... okay lol. Also I wonder if he would like a group of like 10 strangers to come onto his property unannounced probably not but its okay for them to do it to Morgan.
Lol remember the guy complaining about Morgan’s “trained killer guard dog” while his actual trained hunting dogs were trespassing on Morgan’s property? Hypocrisy is all these fools know.
@@tacothecat1604 Indeed, it's a common trait to have amongst these guys apparently haha
If you don’t know anything about Steve Rinella , you should probably shut your mouth. The dude knows more and does more abo he conservation than anything this small time duck farmer could ever do. Pretty much all Morgan’s videos can be summed up as bitching about a law he doesn’t like
@@theconsciouscorgi2103 Are you Steve's lover ? why so mad LOL
I’m a hound hunter and have been my whole life. I have coon hunted, rabbit, and squirrel hunted with a dog for many years and I do not and WILL NOT turn loose on a property that I don’t have permission on, that’s DISRESPECTFUL AND RUDE! But hounds can’t read and just do their jobs and go on. I will always ask permission to retrieve my hound and leave the gun in the truck.
These last 5 years have broken a lot of people’s brains. It’s disappointing to hear how disingenuous Rinella was. Years ago when I first heard of him, he seemed like a reasonable person. Now he’s clearly picked a side and closed off his mind.
@Erozpl01 01 i haven't listened to the podcast, but from the snippets in this video, it seems like he hasn't properly researched what has happened and what morgan's stance actually is. but he did say at the end that he would fly morgan over to chat on the podcast, which i guess props to him, doesn't seem like he's totally closed off yet.
@Erozpl01 01, He's a doosh, that's how. Who has the right to go on ones private property and shoot a bear that has been run till his heart is about to burst, then finally climbs a tree to try and get away from 4 dogs. That ain't hunting. And he defends it, that makes him a doosh.
Ask him to prove he takes out the majority of his kills and you won't get any proof. I've been asking since I first saw him years ago and still have not gotten any kind of proof. In my opinion the guy just killed animals for clicks and leaves the majority of the meat to rot in the field
@@aureliusva, You are 100% correct. He just destroys wildlife and then walks away. It's beyond disgusting and he thinks he's doing something good or whatever ? It's messed up, big time.
@Erozpl01 01 whatever you need to tell yourself.
I ask. They say they take the full animal, yet somehow with all those cams, no proof.
If you have consistent video evidence I'd be interested to see the link.
They are just playing politics that you need to play as well. Politicians always overblow things to keep any opponents down. As long as they can associate you with negative feelings then you will lose the public opinion.
You're right about how they're playing the game, but I'd really hate to see Morgan use the same stupid tactics. Him being so reasonable is part of why I really enjoy watching the channel and hearing his take on issues. It's a breath of fresh air compared to the usual "Why compromise when you can dramatize?!"
@@ixta I like Morgan's content and attitude, but they are playing dirty. You saw what they did the other day with lying about their association with the Wildlife Department and holding that "teaching session" in trying to rile up his neighbors so they would run him out of town.
The offer to fly you out "treat you like a special guest" was 1000% made in the knowledge that it would be too difficult for you to take up. I wouldn't expect an offer of remote call in.
And then when he tried to take them up on it, they retracted the offer like cowards. Peace was never an option with them.
@ronjoe6292 and where is the evidence for this? You clearly haven't looked into the meat eater crew prior to making that claim.
It's not even hunting if you're just unleashing dogs to do the work for you.
these people have no clue and are so delusional.
I guess by their logic I'm a hunter too when my cat brings me dead mice :/
It actually is hunting.
The dogs don't kill the animal, they dogs are trained to tree the animal. Then the hunters come and shoot the animal out of the tree at near point blank range.
My dad hunts with a bird dog. The dog is trained to go into the undergrowth and chase out the Bird. The hunter than shoots the bird in flight. It is similar to that.
The difference being that how my dad hunts the dogs is rarely more than a football field away from him, while hound hunting has the dogs sometimes miles away.
@@darththeo As well as that using dogs to chase birds out of cover actually makes sense. Unlike this type of hound hunting.
@@saraschneider6781 It is shooting fish in a barrel. Why not just put bears in cages and tie a gun to a post - a dollar a shot? I see absolutely no difference.
@@saraschneider6781 It’s lazy hunting. It’s unsportsmanlike hunting. It’s lame hunting. It’s technically hunting, but like the shittiest form of it.
Like my bearded dragon hunts crickets and that’s real hunting because he has to chase them down and catch them.
Hound hunters don’t actually hunt. They let the dogs do the hard part and come in for the fun part, shooting a trapped animal with no ability to escape from 20 feet. Real hunting my ass.
If a hound hunters dog is on someone else's property were they don't have permission to hunt either they don't have control over their dog, or they are poachers. Neither is justifiable.
Yep. This is what the hound hunters don’t grasp is that what they’re doing is poaching. Also it’s basic commonsense sure you check with the landowner before you start letting dogs off. This is not the 1900s anymore you’ve got a patchwork of land owned by different people not vast Estates owned bye a few individuals with tenant farmers on it.
Also wouldn’t it be good practice to alert the locals that you’re going to be in the area so that they can ensure that anything which is free ranging is behind a fence.
Also in this day and age you’ve got far more people with livestock guardian dogs knocking about and those dogs are going to see the hounds of predators and attack them. If you’ve got someone with windows Russian dogs, they make Toby look like a cocker spaniel in terms of their level of aggression.
Lost me when he said he was a staunch believer in private property rights and then later essentially said it’s too much work to properly post private property.
He has like 200 anchors of land? It’s going to be hard to mark every 400 feet 9:33 too 12:09
@@bodhithekid5899 I have 183 acres. 4 hours spent 1 day a year and it’s posted properly. This guy just doesn’t want to do it. That simple.
@@lukeseedorff4030 don’t they fall?
@@akita_kong most of mine last on average of about 6-8 years I’d say. I spend a day a year double checking them. I just buy about a dozen sheets of 3/4” plywood, cut them down into 18”x18” squares, spray paint them purple (purple is not a naturally occurring color in nature so it stands out very well against trees, brush, water, etc) then I staple blaze orange NO TRESPASSING signs I buy at a sporting goods store directly to my freshly painted wood squares and then write my name as the property owner in the designated spot with a weatherproof marker. The marker usually lasts about 2-3 years before it fades. Then to hang them I hop in my truck, throw a ladder, a drill and an impact driver in along with my signs. Every 250 feet is the legal distance in my state. I drag the ladder to a tree pick out and hang them all about 6’ high. I drill pilot holes into the tree with the drill then use the impact driver and lag bolts to fasten the sign to the tree itself. It’s a hard day of work, but that’s all it is, a single day.
@@lukeseedorff4030 alright cool they did just power at my old school and I was learning mad much about signs thanks
This sucks man. I was a big fan of Steven, after I started watching his MeatEater show on Netflix. Thought he was a real genuine down to earth nice guy. This whole situation is making me think I may need to change my view on that. I definitely stand on Morgan's side with this one.
You know the facts here. Rinella talks out of his ass, he should have reached out to Morgan and get his story, before assuming things based on what was shared with him from the biased side. That tells you all there’s to know about this guy, he’s ridiculous. His fame got to his head.
The fact that someone who Advocates hunting so passionately will try to diminish someone else simply because they asked a hunter to have permission before they came on the land and to respect that land it's not the type of person you want to listen to. Little Stevie and is hunting ethics are both garbage and you would do best to stay away from people like that. He also has never once proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that he is taking as much as possible of his kills out. A my opinion he kills animals for clicks and leaves the majority of it to rot in the field
Good on you. If I was a fan of that podcast, I'd be rethinking my stance after this too.
@@aureliusva I completely agree. I really loved Stevens Netflix show, however after watching a few seasons I noticed whenever he went bow hunting he would NEVER have a well placed shot, all the animals died a slow and painful death and they wouldn't find most. But guess what he still continues bow hunting even though he can barely do it. Plus there was one episode were he and his friend took two new hunters to their first turkey hunt. his friend is a brilliant and kind hunter, who at the end if the episode didn't have a kill because they didn't have a safe shot so they didn't shoot. However Steven pressured his partner into taking an unsafe shot and therefor the new hunter only hurt the turkey and never found it. After that she had a breakdown and got putt off hunting forever because her first experience was so traumatising. I'm conclusion Steven is a hack and a terrible hunter.
Don’t use this video alone to form your opinions. You’d need to experience both ends of the spectrum
I am a hunter. Never used dogs to corral prey. Seems fine to me but I still believe you should have absolute property rights and those who hunt on private property should be required to have written permission on their person to hunt on private property.
Yep. I'm not a hunter myself. But, I've no problems with using dogs in controlled ways to 'startle' for example birds into flight for the hunter. Or to help track down prey otherwise, on a leash, for example. But, to release dogs to chase a bear or something, with all the stress and so on that causes, until it goes into a tree or the dogs catch up to it, no. That's a disgusting way to hunt.
@@Nemrai Honestly, how these hound are used in hunting. I feel there is just too much risk involved. You aren't near your dog. If the bear fights back, your dog can be seriously hurt to the point of dying a painful and utterly pointless death.
Your land wasn’t properly posted. It’s your right as a property owner to post it.
Even if hound hunting wasn’t legal you still would have had issues with someone trespassing because of negligence.
Taking the time to post property is one of those annual RESPONSIBILITIES of landowners that don’t want trespassers, or landowners that want to legally fight trespassers. We do it on our farm. We understand that if it’s not done we can’t complain about trespassing.
I don't understand how these guys that are all about property rights and personal freedoms get so mad when someone else exercises their property rights and personal freedoms.
Property rights and personal freedoms*
*for themselves and no one else
These people have no principles.
They are hypocrites and their hunting ethics are trash just like them
I love Steve but I hate him patronising your videos. They're great and I always appreciate them from over here in London! Don't change!
You can't support both Morgan and Steve.
@@saraschneider6781 As long as Steve's eats his words, and admit he was bit too quick to judge, it would be fine.
@@Jeru3 and entitled 💩 heads have done this before?
@@saraschneider6781 I vaguely remember some youtubers, but nothing concrete comes to mind. But yeah, I agree that support for Steve should be put on ice until said apology comes.
You should definitely take Steve’s side, so far the law doesn’t side with gold Shaw farm.
Being led here from Steve’s Instagram post encouraging me to listen to your story points out the ability to compromise on both parts as you clearly stated is your goal. After reading other people’s posts the one take away I have is that people forget that humans often project their opinions as a fallible creature. This apply’s to Mr Shaw, Mr Rinella, and each of the people behind the messages tied to this thread. Good job launching a thoughtful response that offers pause for the often quick triggered folks.
This "outsider" thing is bullshit, besides the fact that buying a property gives you full ownership rights no matter how you want to exercise them, you're a lot more careful and respectful towards nature and traditional farming than a whole lot of countryside natives.
This whole issue is blown out of proportions by a bunch of bullies who think they can intimidate you, in your shoes I couldn't have been as polite and patient as you were with those poachers.
Yeah, I said poachers, not only because I dislike hounding, but because hunting on private property without permission is considered poaching where I live no matter how you do it or what permits you may have, state authorities can only authorize you to hunt on public land (and some community managed areas), not private farmland.
Yeah, the onerous burden of posting land requirements is severe. And this so-called "tradition" is no tradition at all-- GPS collars on the dogs running for miles with no human intervention, hunters sitting at home in their recliners waiting for a signal from the dogs (description by Butch in video). That is not "tradition" of any kind. And it forms a new and previously unforeseen problem in that in the actual tradition, the dogs don't run loose for miles with no human intervention. So the Vermont laws don't adequately cover these new conditions.
plus why would the meat eater guy even complain about him being am outsider. he has multiple properties all over America where he hunts. what a hypocrit .
it is commercial hunting done illegally in my opinion...
if you are leading a hunt for monetary gains by locator beacon/gps tracking it isn't hunting whether by verbal cue or by leash this would be what i would hound/any specie of dog hunting you can name..
as you have a measure of control of the dog not you let them roam free and unaccounted for and you track them by gps collar this no more different than bating at a deer/stage/doe blind same principle though you are baiting the bear to run up the nearest tree that can support its weight.. so you can shoot it..
It don't matter whether it is brown, black, kodiak, grizzly or polar bears you hunt it ain't hunting if you ain't in control of your dogs at any step of the process it isn't a hunt it's a baiting slaughter ..
Done the right way i have no issues in hound/dog hunting in general though i do caution people within the media whether content lives on channels like discover media/history or other such adventure channels or amazon/netflicks media groups, blogging and calling out someone making yourself looking like an idiot in the process..
look at the issue first before you comment and make baseless ascertains check the facts first befpre opening your mouth..
to the farmer in this case also when you explaining what you are saying make sure you are defining what you line stance is on certain types of hunting and define also the history of hound hunting....
@@nizvkfb7vsbvrsct723 because he doesn’t come to Montana and try to impose his views on local residents. It’s not about being an outsider it’s about acting like one.
@@jameskearse8617
He’s not the person been woken up at stupid o’clock in the morning by uninvited hunters on his land.
Morgan like a lot of farmers across the globe have multiple jobs in order to keep financially viable. If you let’s say went up into the Yorkshire Dales or Cumbria you’ll find a lot of farmers have cottages you can rents or they have tea rooms for passing hikers or they have the fishing rights let out so that people can come and pay a fee and fish on their property et cetera.
When you have an uninvited hunter piling through your land not respecting your rights as a landowner then it Will cause problems regardless of whether the person was born and bred in the state several generations or somebody not long moved there from another state.
I love both gold shaw farm and Meat Eater, after listening to that podcast I think Steve got a very screwed version of the story. I would hope that he could peel his blinders off a little bit to see the bigger picture. You cannot respect private property right and let dogs run wherever. Specifically in that video with butch, Morgan make the statement that law says you must have control over your dogs, if you are a 1/4 mile plus away and the dog won't stop a chase on command it's hard to claim you can control the dog, which means property rights are being violated. So I think it's time to amend (not get rid of) hound hunting laws.
At this point they are, willingly or ignorantly, helping VT hound hunters assassinate Morgan's character, and making fun of someone for not yet being successful at what they do is a piss poor presentation of one's own ego. Hope they resolve this issue, but the internet taught me not to lean on hope too much.
Well said. I’ve lost a lot of respect for Steve now. I’m hoping he was talking un informed off the cuff. I still hope he can realize his blind spots because I don’t think I can enjoy meateater as much anymore.
You’re so empathetic and compassionate!!!! One of my favorite TH-camrs 🤗 and your references and jokes are 10/10
I have no desire to listen to Steve Rinella or his podcast. It sounds like he doesn't give a rat's behind about anyone's private property rights (except for possibly his own.) The "dog doesn't understand private property rights" argument doesn't fly in my book.
That being said it would be a tragedy if a property owner exercises his right (justifiably so) to defend his property against trespassing hound hunters.
I wonder what Rinella would think if a property owner shoots one of his dogs?
Or shoots the hunter for trespassing?
@@briangarrow448 I wasn't going to mention that, but yeah...
“dogs don’t know when they’re on private property” well that’s when you as an owner step in and call them right back to you🤷🏽♀️ what an entitled mindset. keep your dogs off private property!
wow how DARE you ask hound hunters to be responsible for anything. it is clear they are aristocracy and the rest of hunting community should be cleaning the ground they stand on.
That’s literally what steve said in the podcast though. I don’t think many people understand hound hunting. I’m not saying that this I a bad video reply, but I think there is a lot of cherry-picking going on.
I am not hunter, nor a land owner. But the thing that does bug me, is that if you have a problem with the way a activity is managed it isn’t fair to just try to ban it entirely, instead try to get the laws surrounding the problem changed. Imagine if you liked road cycling but motorist tried to ban cycling on roads. You’d be pissed, the better choice would to be to add bike lanes.
Cycling is much more popular then hunting, hunting has a lot less people advocating for it the cycling. So I can see how hunters as whole would feel attacked by someone trying to ban hound hunting in Vermont.
@@shrimpbread7284 your comparisons are dumb and you're making 0 sense. it's his property, keep your dogs and your bicycles out of it :^)
@@marekknieshtschav6391 hound dogs when on a hot trail will answer to no one. Everyone on here doesn't even understand enoight to jave an opinion
@@alexarreguin5297 use a leash, then. I understand that you can't control the dogs, but you just can't jump onto other people's property without permission just like that...
I came here because Steve sent me. This seems pretty reasonable to not want strangers with guns and hounds on your property unannounced.
Hi Morgan, I think what they are trying to do is to bait you to go to their podcast, maybe make a villain out of you. Show you as a villain. I heard the podcast and I think his views are more in line with Butch. If he really had any such intention to listen to your side of the story, he would have reached out to you. But his punchlines are more about putting you down, showing the so called "libtards" to get his point through. Best of luck on your journey, we your TH-cam fans are with you.
I started to unfollow the guy. Steven lost my respect.
If that’s what you think you’re clearly unfamiliar with meateater brand and what they do. They invited a full on animal rights ethicist to counter their arguments in a Netflix documentary they made. And they made him look good too, picked out his best points. You clearly don’t know what you’re talking about
@@jameskearse8617 you clearly don't understand the point here. Also, your statement is invalid since morgan said he is willing to compromise about the hound hunting. Come on stop showing your ignorance here. Lastly, do you think that going inside a private property without the permission of the owner is the right thing to do? Those law needs to be revised because here in our country we have the right to defend our land from the hunters who trespass our land.
I don’t think Steven is the type to boil Morgan down to a “libtard” .
@@slugoo6474 they were condescending enough about him being from the city that i'm pretty sure that's what they were implying. or at least, they give me the impression of those kinds.
*What I find most irritating* about all these "dirt flinging contests" on different social medias, is that NO SHOW brings in candidates for BOTH sides of the argument at the same time.
And DON'T let the BOTH of the opposite sides defend themselves from the accusations of the other side, nor isn't even allowed to correct basic mistakes.
It's just such a low "blow under the belt" tactics all the time, instead of a serous discussion.
I like what Morgan & Gold Shaw Farm has done, he as actually TRIED to see the other views & actually spoken WITH the other side, not just only ABOUT the other side, like the Meat Eater.
Meateater has had vegans and Peta members on the podcast in fact they gave this dude an open invitation said they'd fly him out put him in a hotel the nine yards the ball is in this dudes hands its his move
@@dangerousdylan6262 except the entire video was them not giving morgan's positions benefit of the doubt and belittling him with ad hom. They were not trying to understand or be charitable with the difference of opinion. If they were really interested in understanding Morgans opinion they would have started with the original podcast episode. Just inviting someone onto the show doesn't mean they're taking it seriously or trying to engage both sides, they just want more views.
@@arowace498 EXACTLY!
And, it would be a much more interesting interview if BOTH sides would get to VOICE THEIR opinions WITHOUT any bias from the hosts, then the AUDIENCE get to make THEIR OWN opinion about the situation, instead of the host basically telling the audience what to think.
If I were in your shoes I’d be advocating for a change in the private property posting laws, probably a lot less blowback to work on that
I live in Sweden and we have a law which allows everyone to walk through or even camp on any property. Basically the private property laws are very limited. And if you own a forest there is super strict regulations on how to farm it. But never in a 1000 years would you be allowed to hunt on any property without permission from the landowners.
I like that.
Trespass laws are vastly different in EU and US. I find it fascinating to study about, in regards to common law and law of the land so to speak.
I wish it was like that in the U.S.! I would be way to afraid to do that here with the very real threat of being shot or confronted with a gun.
@@cameronwelty4717 US law developed with the idea that your property is like your own little kingdom or nation, and you could run it pretty much how you please, as well as defend how you please. Laws have changed over the decades/centuries of course though.
yea i think there is a difference between a hiker, and a mob of 10 people with ar15´s and 10 dogs trained to hunt animals
Butch's appearance hardly seems coincidental, esp since he's from out of state. So, does Butch conduct paid hound hunting excursions? Sounds like he, and the other few mouthy hound hunters at the public meeting, are butthurt because it cuts into their lucrative hound hunting. To me, this kind of hound hunting is one step down from putting the prey in a cage and having "hunters" shoot it and calling it hunting.
Butch is from Vermont, he had with him a couple of guys from out of state that day, on Goldshaw's video. Butch described the "hunting" as, they set the dogs off with GPS collars and the "hunters" stay at home in their recliners watching the progress of the dogs on GPS devices. When the dogs signal they have something, THEN the "hunters" drive off in their vehicles to find the dogs. That is not hunting, the dogs are NOT under the control of the humans, and that is NOT OK!
@@victoriabaker4400 If he's not even leaving the house while his dogs do all the hunting, then how is he anything other than a poser pretending to be a hunter?
@@andrewrichards312 Well, that's my point. It's not a form of hunting, therefore there is no reason to allow them to run roughshod over the countryside. Every state I've lived in, if there are loose dogs chasing wildlife, those dogs can be shot dead on the instant (same with harassing farm animals or pets).
@@victoriabaker4400 hence why my question was rhetorical ;)
A bunch of dogs killed my dog while they were hunting a board. It's better to prevent than to be sorry. This guy can't control his dogs... He can't call them back, he can't assure they won't attack your life stock while his dogs are on YOUR land.
The ultimate point is in any other situation I'm responsible for my big dog. How can they be responsible for their loose dog?
"BUT MUH RIGHTS!1!!"
@@jessebridgeman767 😂 I know you're taking the piss but I have a rottweiler. I genuinely don't want to think of the reaction if I just randomly let her wander around with agps collar. For a start the local sheep farmer would probably hand me her collar. Don't want to even think about that
Totally not surprising that Rinella is disingenuous with his argument and trying to twist your words and mock you. It's the way of the Right, right now. He's a total hypocrite, I am 100% sure that manbaby would be pitching a fit if someone was on his property without his permission.
100%.
Thank you for the response! I'm curious why you choose to pursue legislation to ban hound hunting, rather than pursue legislation on the posting law. If you're really concerned with private property and not against hunting, in my mind fighting to change the tresspass/posting law. Similar legislation is happening right now in North Dakota .
What really ticks me off is the fact that Morgan is absolutely arguing in good faith, while the meat eater dudes and the hounders are decidedly not. It doesn’t matter what Morgan does; the way they talk about him is from the perspective that he’s a bad guy from the outset and everything he does is bad. You can clearly see Morgan giving the hounders etc. the benefit of the doubt and assuming good will. If the situation were reversed, they would be bemoaning that Morgan is an innocent property rights over and that he has a right to decide what goes on on his land blah blah blah. It’s aggravating to see Morgan going out of his way to be kind and understanding to people who don’t give a hoot about doing the same, they just want someone to rally against without having to actually talk to him or engage with him. It’s appalling and they should be ashamed of themselves.
The fact that they are attacking Morgan as "not a farmer" because he has poultry is ridiculous-- I live in the Deep South where poultry farms are big business. So their whole premise is to attack on a false basis. The fact that the podcaster would repeat the attack on the farm as a farm REALLY doesn't sit well with me, it's incredibly disrespectful and untrue.
@@victoriabaker4400 little stevies ethics and hunting ethics are trash and that makes him garbage
@@victoriabaker4400 It is a tactic used by the dishonest. It is essentially a form of ad hominem. You are questioning the validity of everything a person says because they are not what they claim by using some stupid argument. A farmer is someone who works a farm, it doesn't matter what the farm is.
@@victoriabaker4400 I've lived in Asia, the poultry and duck farm here is a really big farm business. These hound hunters are pure ignorant and they lack respect for private property.
Morgan is being two faced, he tries to appear genuine and honest in his videos and tries to tell people that he understands nuance, meanwhile he has a petition up to completely ban hound hunting in Vermont and portrays black bears as some sort of endangered animal to appeal to all the” New Jersey cat ladies” on here. He’s fully away that black bears are not endangered and actually do need to be regulated.
He also treated Butch pretty shitty when he showed up at his doorstep and was being an asshole crashing that educational even Butch threw in Peacham. The whole town was telling him to turn off his cameras and he wouldn’t.
That offer by the host of “Maneater” was 100% disingenuous because he is betting that Morgan wouldn’t want to take so much time away from the farm to travel all the way to Montana to be on that podcast.
You know people can be on podcasts remotely, right?
@@Dekartz Does Meateater? Because that seems to be a pretty lofty hoop they want Morgan to jump through just to show up on their podcast.
And in Montana no hunters would have the right to invade property with dogs that are miles from their owners running loose.
Morgan is using excuses to NOT fly out, come on people, there's vacation time, PTO, he can use. Oh don't forget that he'll make a video and make youtube money with it DUH that's all this guy does is do a video a day on 4 platforms
@@travisbonnett491 Oh so he's supposed to cancel everything and rush out because some assholes decided to take up hate against him without knowing the whole thing and for sure, they would not welcome hound hunters on their property in the middle of the night?
I really enjoyed the meat eater series. I just found this channel a few days ago. I think private property rights are extremely important and I put in countless hours and large dollars on my own hunting property. I do not want anyone on my land disturbing what I created and worked for let alone the invasion of privacy. Now if game is wounded and ends up on a neighboring property it is the correct thing to do to make contact with that owner as best is possible to notify them you need to access their land. I hunt all types of animals and I far and away enjoy nature and the “hunt” more than the end result. I take great care to make sure any animal I take is done so in the quickest and most effective way. From all my experience this is in the best interest of the animal and the meat. I do not support hunting that has the animal go thru long drawn out chases or death by excessive suffering. I find knife hunting, hog and bear hunting with dogs to just be cruel to the animal. That said I do love working upland game dogs and it’s a joy to watch my lab retrieve a duck. I thought that was behind the meat eater mantra of respecting the animal and honoring nature. This idea that you can’t be pro hunting but against a certain method of hunting is ridiculous.
Posting shouldnt really be a responsibility of the landowner, tracking property boundaries should be the responsibility of the Hunter, they disrupt others not the other way around. Not saying the disruption is a bad thing but people who refuse hunting shouldnt be punished in Labour for the benefit of someone elses hobby.
Postings your property and registering to fish and game is absolutely 100% the farmers responsibly not the hunters.its not the hunters responsibly its Morgan's responsibility post his farm when he is the one not wanting hunting on his property 🤷♀️🤷♀️.also who cares if it burden a little hard work will not kill him...wander what he would do if he starts loosing calfs from bears 🤔🤔
@@bonniegrandstaff5500 depends on the land and the owner if its a 'little bit of work' where I am you see hunting signs to define areas where hunting is allowed both private and public, there are also private property signs
Why USA has this backwards? Our hunting lands we have to ask permission from owners and make a written agreement for "renting" hunting rights on the land. Super easy map apps you can make areas from different land patches. Posting your hundreds, thousands of acres to prevent people using them for hunting? geez. You can easily check your property lines online, everyone can check them why you need to manually go post your property when everyone with mobile phone can see where the borders are to X person's land? And we have 30 minutes as a rule, if dog goes to area where you have no hunting permission, you have 30 minutes to fetch it or it's trespassing.
@@nonowitz because its your property and and you need to post it because if someone gets hurt on your property , they can sue you for damages even if they are trespassing better safter then sorry 🤷♀️🤷♀️
@@bonniegrandstaff5500 That's nuts 😂
im a hunter but dont like hound hunting-----i walk outside my house and my dog HAS to be under my CONTROL at all times.....so why are hunting hounds not under total control at all times?
I started duck hunting, going on my first deer hunt this weekend. I’m new but I can tell you I can’t imagine using a hound in this day and age for bear hunting. Being around a retriever dog in a duck pit, what a wonderful animal to have out there. I believe in humane aspect of hunting to give the other animal a fair chance to evade and run away if I miss my shot (God I hate that feeling when I wasted 2-3 shells at a duck 20 yards away for it to somehow get away). And I think a hunter to put a dog’s life at risk especially in terms to hunting a bear or use one is kinda cheating but then again my family uses dogs to point on quail hunts but for some reason I don’t take issue with that because the dog is not at much risk as trailing down a freaking predator. Just my take, love the videos my guy.
Exactly, totally agree. Bear hunting with hounds isn't real hunting, since the dogs do all the work for the hunter. Additionally, it's incredibly cruel. Dogs should be managed as a tool in a hunt, such as a pointer or a retriever, not as a hunter itself.
Lol. Complains about fairness and animal cruelty but then sits in a stand and sky blasts the hell out of some ducks and probably maimes them into a final few hours of suffering.
Yet when you duck hunt, you will often consider it "a miss" when you actually are maiming the bird, having it fly off injured. Those are the facts. So dont judge other forms of hunting this easily man.
@@rachiegoodman Its not "cruel" at all.
@@robertharrison8738 EXACTLY.
I never hunted with a dog, if you cannot shoot game without one, you should hang up your rifle.
@@cals87 And Native Americans use them to this day, having done so for thousands of years.
These people are just ignorant, so they try to paint you as the bad guy so they dont have to admit their faults.
And sadly there is a lot of people like that and they tend to just reinforce each others opinions without ever looking outside the box.
In the end you get exactly what you are seeing now, a group of people with seemingly no interest in logic or fairness.
I mean, how messed up is it to paint you as a bad person when all you did was manage your farm when random strangers from across the country show up and demand you let them on your property....
People who think like that are just messed up man, dont let that bs get to you, you are providing 100x more to the area of vermont than those guys.
Thank you for being willing to learn and have civil dialog about this issue. I am sorry there is a lot of people that just want to vilify you instead of listening and talking.
I really appreciate voices like yours these days. We need more people on all side of issues who are humble enough to learn and civil enough to have a calm discussion about issues even if they disagree with something.
I've never gone hunting but my husband goes deer and small game hunting so we're not completely out of the hunting community.
That being said I would agree with you about needing more autonomy of some kind for land owners when it comes to the hound issue.
Keep up the good work. I hope your farm and your channel are around for a long time!
This is coming from a fellow farmer... I was the one who paid for my property and my farm with a lot of sacrifices, so there is no way anyone can claim that they should have "the right" to disrespect me and my land. Also, before I got my livestock guard dogs, my biggest single predator loss was losing 17 meat chickens to neighboring domestic dogs. This is fresh in my mind as I see your birds and think about hunting hounds on your property.
Hunting hounds and pets don't act the same. If they are hunting, your yard birds are not in their mind at all.
@@robertharrison8738 I’m not going to trust that.
@@Detroitdiesel285 that's fine. The information is there. In at least 1000 hunts we have had one incident. Someone's pitbull caught our dogs coming across our road and tried to fight them. We have treed in trees touching people's houses, in their deer camps, and right by their chicken yards and never had an incident caused by our dogs.
@@robertharrison8738 treeing animals is trash. Especially on other peoples property. I wouldn’t be so kind as gold Shaw farms.
@@Detroitdiesel285 congrats to you. You shoot or kill my dogs and I press charges and then sue you. If you claim they were harming or harassing your animals you better have every fact straight because I have GPS record of every movement they make. If they get on your property and you won't allow me to retrieve them, then I have the local game wardens number on speed dial. I promise he is going to be more pissed at the landowner who refuses to let me retrieve my dogs than the hunter when he gets that phone call at 1 am.
Says he would love to have you on, butt then continues to have a one-sided conversation. What a great unbiased researched debate and podcast.
I agree with you. And as a side note...our area is FULL of "stray" hounds because they turned out to be poor hunting dogs...and the owners release them into the woods, etc. It is so sad. Hopefully your area hasn't reached that point. You handle yourself well, Morgan.
Honestly I’m just glad you stick to your views and aren’t swayed by those who are trying to mock you or intimidate you into changing your views to theirs. Your opinion is fair and reasonable!
I am a meat-loving American ..I have no problem with hunting BUT if it's me paying the damn taxes on my land .. your rights stop at my property line UNLESS I give you permission CASE CLOSED
Saying that dogs don't understand property lines is a silly argument for hound hunting. If my cows get out and wander into my neighbor's property, I'm responsible for them. I can't just say, 'oh well, cows don't understand property lines.'
“Dogs don’t know when they’re on private property” that’s why hunters should be within a short distance of their dogs. The hunters should be with their dogs, not following from miles away with GPS collars! There’s a reason why they hunt with dogs AND horses in the UK, to STAY WITH THE DOGS
There’s also a reason why most of the historic wildlife in the UK has been extirpated. So I don’t think the US should be taking pointers from the UK.
@@jameskearse8617 I wholeheartedly agree, the point I’m making is they at least stay with their dogs and follow close, unlike GPS hunters
@@gd2234_ well modern GPS technology actually allows you to recall your dogs with sound or shock. And you can easily monitor them on the map so if they go on a property where a hunter is not allowed to hunt they could send that signal and a well trained dog will come back to where they’ve been released
@@jameskearse8617 that is the problem though these dudes didnt train their dogs and they had to drag them away. It was absolutely disgusting to me that they were so pathetic that they call themselves hunters and claim their dogs are trained yet they barely trained them. Dogs will chase things on their own honing that to tree something is only one single part. The real skill is getting them to come back when called etc. There is nothing wrong with gps as a tool when needed but they rely on it too much. These guys arent worthy of claiming their are hound hunters and crying about tradition. Traditional hound hunting isnt nearly such a lazy past time as guys like Butch have made it.
Believe me even a case where hound hunters here in United Kingdom have an appalling record when hounds run out of control and start killing things. It’s bad enough when you’ve got people close to hand you can limit the amount of destruction which happens but even then you see livestock and pets being killed most seasons. Also people exercising the hounds in the bloody things decide to go and kill someone’s cat. The trouble is when the hunt then decides to try and hide the fact and they obviously get found out it gets very messy very quickly. The idea of letting hounds loose without any supervision in real terms in the area where you have livestock it’s just utterly crazy. As much as I dislike hound hunting here in the UK. The hounds are trained to recall when they hear the hunting horn. Which means within reason you can recall these dogs. Why in the hell butch and his friends for instance couldn’t have got the hounds out of someone’s property simply by using a horn is something I don’t understand. There is no reason why those dogs should not be trained to come when called. Even when they’re on pray.
One can't compromise, Morgan.
When good compromises with evil, only evil benefits.
This is overly dramatic, and honestly, the type of thing that causes so many issues in America, in my opinion. This isn't some fantasy book where giving the devil an inch gives him a loophole to take a mile. I think America could really benefit from some true willingness to compromise on issues, and being willing, like Morgan has, to actually put in effort to see things from the other side, and let it influence your opinions. That's what really earns Morgan some respect in my book. It really sets him apart from the standard crap of dismissive ridicule and deliberate misrepresentation.
@@ixta your opinion creates weak citizens
@@cheongyei Weak Citizens? Apparently what you call weak citizens, I call emotionally mature adults who are smart enough to realize that functional society requires flexibility, cooperation, and compromise.
@@ixta you are full of bs from Morgan's pasture...very weak.
No one here is evil
Brother you do you and being country is a state of mind not a state you live in.
You ain’t wrong and we stand behind ya 1,00000%
Hell Yeah. I’m from South Louisiana and stand with him too. Idk how anybody feels that they have the right to run dogs through/on your property. I’ve grown up hunting since I could hold a gun. Louisiana is know as Sportsman’s Paradise for a reason. If they want to run hounds the way they do they need to go somewhere where there’s nobody especially farms for miles upon miles and actually hunt not ride around in their pickups until their hounds Tree a bear then go over and shot it. That’s not hunting. Also RHEC
Love this!
Hunting dogs are underfed, making them dangerous to poultry farms. I have had some tear apart my chickens. 😡
Steve seems like a cool guy..
He wont mind if me and my friends barge into his property in the middle of the night right and let our dogs wreck havoc while we're at it.
Yeah... according to his statements, that's a perfectly cool thing to do.
That’s the mind of a hounder
The issue seems to be that they're looking at this like an attack on hunting vs someone just wanting to maintain their property rights?
Because Morgan made it more about hunting than the property rights.
They are blowing it up because that's the way to gain people for your cause; make it sound as worst as possible, make it emotional, because dumb people will follow the flow without thinking deeper.
@@bofa83 I'm pretty sure he was doing what he's always done on this channel... learning about life on his private property. If we got footage of the coyotes and Bobcats and the failed projects and trained cows, then I expect hunters on his property would be recorded too.
Now that I'm thinking about it I'm pretty sure all of Morgans animals are trained to come to him in some way.
Maybe the hound hunters could learn how Morgan trains his animals. He's got lots of youtube videos.
;)
@@freedomishavingachoice3020 I am in total agreement with Morgan about his property rights, Vermont’s laws about this are strange, his first reaction being to totally ban something he doesn’t like is a bad look. Focus on the property rights, that’s the ticket.
You’re totally in the right the meat eater crew just sound dumb at this point
How is it that a small group of people believe that their rights supercede the rights of everyone else?
I love your channel. Your intelligent and openness to address issues of concern to you and taking a "let's talk and figure it out" approach is amazing and to your credit. To hear people are disrespectful in the face of that honorable approach is a discredit to them.. you articulate so well and present well in an non convoluted manner. Awesome all the way through 🥰
I don't necessarily have an issue with hunting, but hunting with hounds seems to me distasteful AF.
If you own the property no one or their property should be allowed on your property without your expressed permission. End of story.
That's not true in VT.
@@saraschneider6781 It is true. Try going onto anyone's property in a residential area. Would you just let people roam around freely on your property?
@@letstrend Property laws very. Some states permit the public to traverse private property without permission. Other states even permit people to camp on private property (so long as they don't become squatters. A camp and go is legal in some states.)
There are states where private property is considered private and being told to leave by the land owner is enough, but there are many states with exceptions to that.