The first time I ever saw a boat pinned was on the Snake river down stream from Jackson res. In Wyoming. It was wrapped around a root ball like a pretzel. There was a story about the boat and the people it had belonged to. The green canoe was left there as a reminder hanging several feet high up where the flow had been. All these kinds of videos are great for sharing experiences without actually being in those kinds of situations. Nothing can replace the experience on the river. Great seeing folks always willing to help out. “No good deed shall go unpunished”.
I'm a relatively new boater, so take that as you may. I'm also aware that MANY people dislike hands-free tethers, and I would definitely agree with them IF note using a rescue PFD. But if you are rocking something like the astral green as your PFD, I really like them for these situations. Definitely don't risk your personal safety for a boat, but if you are super comfortable on terrain, having one would make ferrying the boat across quite a bit easier. As you go down the river, not being able to paddle at all really hurts your ability to guide the boat. In this situation, rather than hand on boat, I would have been trying to bumper boat it across to any eddy, and I would think that's the answer to the question of whether or not you should have let if go. Great video, and I love the animation!
Thanks for watching Evan! I appreciate the feedback! The thing that made this difficult is that there pretty much are zero eddies. The run is essentially 1 long continuous rapid, which makes any kind of moves like that riskier and harder. I don’t think there’s a wrong answer here. It all comes down to skill and situation and risk assessment
@@davidpeek7385 Yes. That was what I was aiming to do, and what we eventually did. With how continuous the run is, there is an argument to be made to not even worry about retrieving it and just leaving it where we found it. Getting a rope across may present an entanglement hazard for boaters coming down that are too far beyond their limits to stop. Again, I don't think there are any wrong answers here, and at the end of the day this event was a learning experience for all. Thanks for watching!
Ok, first, welcome back and great new video! Second, I’m really liking the animations! They are unique and match your style, so I vote for throwing more in or at least every now and then. Know that river and that section well, too bad that boater wasn’t grateful. Maybe embarrassed from the swim? Either way enjoyed it as always.
Thanks! I spent so long on the animations haha, learning to animate is hard! The situation was definitely not great, and I think many mistakes were made and can be learned from. Hopefully it helps others, and hopefully the swimmer wasnt too embarrassed
i think after the boat took on water again and you realised it wasnt going easily, just let go of it with your hands and just start driving it towards the shore with your boats bow and just keep going. once there is a somewhat decent spot, just quickly jump out of your boat, stand in the water and grab it (of course only on rivers like this were the currents near the shore arent too bad and the water isnt too deep). what i personally would have done (but i'm a little stronger of a paddler, and truthfully, its an unnecessary risk, taken out of lazyness) i would have just clipped it in with my cowtail and hauled butt to the shoreline or some eddy. not that that is the proper way to do it, but in easier waters it sure is fast and uncomplicated. overall you did the responsible thing and stayed safe yourself. good call. btw: love the animations (i know thats a lot of work, so mad props for the effort!) ♥
My ability to bulldoze boats is something I need to work on, as I didn't feel like I was able to bulldoze it to shore or an eddy, with how manky and how continuous of a run this was. And I also didn't feel comfortable towing it either, at least not in this kind of current and rapids. Most of that is a reflection of my skill level, rather than anything. Thanks for the feedback tho! Constructive criticism is always appreciated :) And animations, as you know, are very very time consuming haha :)
I’m from the west coast so I’m not familiar with that run but my only question is why? Once the boat was on shore and empty WHY take it down stream? Where was it’s owner? Once they lowered it over the ledge and it got back surfed and refilled WHY unclip it? Why not drag it to shore before unclipping it. Where were you trying to take the boat?
H! Thanks for watching! This video and really, the channel, is about progression and learning from mistakes. I posted this so that myself and others can learn what we did wrong (a lot) and know better in the future. With that said, this run is a step up run. Often people put on and are outclassed by the river. It’s also super continuous so stuff goes down river for forever. The owner was (I was told) about a quarter mile upriver of the initial spot, making his way down the road. The road access is on the other side, and so we were trying to get the boat over to the other side of the river. I did make a part 3 where I go over many of the mistakes and discussions that were generated from this video, but the summary was that the best thing to do in this scenario was to leave the boat on the shore empty and the swimmer could go get it after the water gets turned off. Anyways, I appreciate the feedback! Hope you have a happy holidays! :)
@@JerKayaks I am also a newer kayaker and have only been kayaking for a little over a year now. If you haven’t done it yet I would highly recommend taking a swift water rescue course and one that is kayak specific if possible. Many of these scenarios are covered in those courses and as many others have stated the primary goal is to keep you safe before any gear. I responded prior to seeing the third video but now that I have I think that you understand the traps that you fell into. Being tired and not thinking clearly is one of the biggest traps on the river. We all want to help and as you said “be the nice guy” but be safe first and don’t put yourself in danger just to rescue a boat. And if at all possible don’t closely follow a boat down stream. I was rescuing a boat in my earlier days after a difficult rapid and was chasing it down stream. When I caught it I tried to wrangle it with my hands like you were doing and it hit a rock, suddenly stopping dead in the river. It’s tail rose up with the force of the water and caught me under the chin almost knocking me out as I slammed into it. I learned very quickly to let the boat go through rapids and give it space until you can either bull doze it or clip onto it and drag it to safety. P.S. like what you are doing and keep up the good work. But be safe out there😊
Thanks for the feedback and thanks for watching! This was definitely a huge learning experience for me, and a lot of it came from a place of good intentions! Hope that you progress well in your ww career! :)
Thanks! I’m super new and learning to animate, so a lot of it is still super sloppy and time consuming. I’m using FlipaClip, which is an iPad app for frame by frame animation!
@@JerKayaks No, I loved the "kiddish" animation. The animation timing was excellent, which is more important than the detail. I'll have to check that FlipaClip out, thanks!
My comment is less about your actions, Jer. It seems like you've thought those through. I think one other lesson is to always have experience (at any given grade) within a group. It's cool that people form up to go paddling but you really need some team members who are capable of sorting out a situation when it all starts going bad. It shouldn't fall to random strangers on the river to have to look after you and your kit
I totally agree! I am not sure what group the swimmer belonged to, or what their skill level was, so I don't want to make any assumptions on that regard. That being said, I think many of us that day failed to understand the difference between boating skill and rescue skill. Just because someone has high skill in one does not mean they have a matching level of skill in the other! Thanks for watching :)
I can easily imagine making same/similar mistakes. I'm not sure what the "right" thing to do would be. I'll have to came back to comments later to see what the experienced boaters have to say
Thanks for watching! There is currently a discussion thread happening on the Carolina Canoe Club Facebook page about it! I'm hoping everyone can learn from the mistakes made, mine especially, so that they dont happen again
@@JerKayaksI love that attitude. Lots to learn from mistakes and really helpful for others when someone is willing to share the mistakes and lessons learned
As a pro swimmer…🤣😂 some situations, you just have to get out of the water and hope for the best. Like big, fast, bouldery drops 😮 That run didn’t look too bad. I definitely would’ve helped recover my yard sale!! (More cartoons plz 🤣)
Should not have unclipped it in the top eddy. They could have easily hauled it over to the side. Ultimate goal would be to get it to the owner or where they could find it easily.
I’m trying to figure out why you didn’t just immediately tow the boat to the road. The entire run is roadside, so you’re never more than 50 feet from pavement
Thanks for watching! The current where the boat was taken out looked worse than the current near where I was. The goal was to get it down to me so I could tow it across. Then obviously, mistakes were made and that plan went out the window.
@@davidpeek7385 Hi! At that moment in time, due to inexperience, I thought I had it under control and could get it into the eddy that I was in. It's one of the many mistakes I made during this event, and something that I have learned from! Thanks for watching! Hope you have a great 2022!
Rick is right. You cannot assume that they have the skill level to help. That group there was actually a first timer group I believe. Group leader is the red and black boat peeling out at about the 1:48 mark
get on a course! and learn to ask for help. the majority of this could have been avoided from the outset. well done for getting out paddling and thinking of others.
Thanks for watching! A lot of this definitely could have been avoided for sure. I did ask for help at some points, but unfortunately the help either didn't happen or was ineffective.
Thanks for watching! In hindsight, I absolutely agree! I actually made a part 3 to this where I addressed a lot of the points, and one of the big takeaways was to try and bulldoze the boat more, or even just leave it where we found it! Hope you have a good 2022!
I'm not certain I'd call the time after the video died "a pin". Let the boat go. Any time you'd define what you're doing "sketchy" to save a boat, placing yourself at unnecessary risk? Heck, it's roadside, and the water turns off. Follow it until it's safe. Run things backwards to guide it? Nope. Why did you disconnect the boat from the rope initially before it was secure?
I made the wrong decision to disconnect the line. I thought I could get it into the eddy, which turned out to not be the case I had the best of intentions throughout the situation, and looking back it may have been better to just leave the boat where it was originally. Lessons learned for next time!
totally unnecessary situation. the boat was initially in a stable situation. the two guys got out & emptied it, and elected to lower it to the next big eddy. then it all went wrong. how it should have been done.... 1. Jer should have got out his boat to catch it. there was never any way he could receive the boat the lowered boat, or put it ashore while Jer was still in his boat. - this is a theme from the series of rescue videos of that day.... get out your boat. 2. even when refilled with water the boat was still easily held by the rope held by the upstream guys. why was the boat unclipped?? the situation was still stable, and again, a person onshore could have easily sorted it out without the boat becoming loose on the river. 3. once it was refloated and loose, a rescue towline would have sorted it out within 100yards. 4. not a great idea to hang onto the boat in such a rocky river. you put yourself at risk. you have little ability to manoeuver while holding another boat and so risk a double pinning (as seen almost happening a couple of times). get clear. - note, if you are pinned and a swamped boat is coming down at you, unless you are pinned underwater then 95% of the time it will go under you anyway. 5. if you are clear you could bulldoze the boat to the side when opportunity happens. hanging on you cant paddle anything anywhere, not even yourself. - note that the newer high rocker boats like a rewind etc are harder to use as a bulldozer than older designs like axioms. in the newer designs the bows ride up over swamped boats.... practice to see. a light paddler in a high rocker boat can simply just go over a swamped boat and not push anything anywhere. know what your gear is capable of or not. 6. communicate with others. there were lots of other boaters.... someone else should have gone ahead, got out, thrown you a rope while you were floating with it, you could clip it, and they could have pulled it ashore. problem sorted within 2 minutes. 7. the final 'get it from one side to another' problem. -towline. -or get the person who was holding it to paddle it over then return them to their own boat by a stern deck carry (it looked an easy spot with a good runout). -or Use 1 big 75' single rope, its much easier for the thrower to aim at anywhere on the other bank than have 2 throwers both aiming a small moving target in the middle of the river who is trying to stay in place. -if you're in the mid-river eddy, then its best to get out your boat and sit on the rock causing the eddy. by staying in your boat when ropes are being thrown around you are at risk of entanglement or losing your paddle while trying to catch them. as you probably found out, its quite difficult to catch a rope when you are floating about & trying to paddle too. its all a learning experience, go and set up practice senarios to learn how to deal with these common situations. Even complete beginners benefit from rescue practice practice. we all learnt by getting to wrong. Next time you will have more options.
Hey! Thanks for the tips and feedback! This was one of the first scenarios like this that I had ever had to deal with, and like you said, it was a learning one. Looking back with the experience that I've gained since then, I would have made many different decisions. A lot of the stuff that happened in this video is what helped me learn, and for that I am grateful. Anyways, thanks for the tips and thanks for watching! :)
The first time I ever saw a boat pinned was on the Snake river down stream from Jackson res. In Wyoming. It was wrapped around a root ball like a pretzel. There was a story about the boat and the people it had belonged to. The green canoe was left there as a reminder hanging several feet high up where the flow had been.
All these kinds of videos are great for sharing experiences without actually being in those kinds of situations. Nothing can replace the experience on the river. Great seeing folks always willing to help out. “No good deed shall go unpunished”.
Dave! Thats a crazy story! Thanks so much for sharing, and thanks so much for watching! :)
Another great video. I feel videos like these are very important. They make boaters think and learn.
Thanks for watching! and I agree, its important to learn from mistakes, and I hope this video can help others as well!
I'm a relatively new boater, so take that as you may. I'm also aware that MANY people dislike hands-free tethers, and I would definitely agree with them IF note using a rescue PFD. But if you are rocking something like the astral green as your PFD, I really like them for these situations. Definitely don't risk your personal safety for a boat, but if you are super comfortable on terrain, having one would make ferrying the boat across quite a bit easier. As you go down the river, not being able to paddle at all really hurts your ability to guide the boat. In this situation, rather than hand on boat, I would have been trying to bumper boat it across to any eddy, and I would think that's the answer to the question of whether or not you should have let if go. Great video, and I love the animation!
Thanks for watching Evan! I appreciate the feedback!
The thing that made this difficult is that there pretty much are zero eddies. The run is essentially 1 long continuous rapid, which makes any kind of moves like that riskier and harder.
I don’t think there’s a wrong answer here. It all comes down to skill and situation and risk assessment
At that point I’m trying to “pin” get it to stop on a rock. So we can get a rope on it. To retrieve
@@davidpeek7385 Yes. That was what I was aiming to do, and what we eventually did. With how continuous the run is, there is an argument to be made to not even worry about retrieving it and just leaving it where we found it. Getting a rope across may present an entanglement hazard for boaters coming down that are too far beyond their limits to stop. Again, I don't think there are any wrong answers here, and at the end of the day this event was a learning experience for all. Thanks for watching!
Animation is on point!!!! Love the studio too!!!
Thanks! Learning to animate is super difficult!
Ok, first, welcome back and great new video! Second, I’m really liking the animations! They are unique and match your style, so I vote for throwing more in or at least every now and then. Know that river and that section well, too bad that boater wasn’t grateful. Maybe embarrassed from the swim? Either way enjoyed it as always.
Thanks! I spent so long on the animations haha, learning to animate is hard!
The situation was definitely not great, and I think many mistakes were made and can be learned from. Hopefully it helps others, and hopefully the swimmer wasnt too embarrassed
i think after the boat took on water again and you realised it wasnt going easily, just let go of it with your hands and just start driving it towards the shore with your boats bow and just keep going. once there is a somewhat decent spot, just quickly jump out of your boat, stand in the water and grab it (of course only on rivers like this were the currents near the shore arent too bad and the water isnt too deep).
what i personally would have done (but i'm a little stronger of a paddler, and truthfully, its an unnecessary risk, taken out of lazyness) i would have just clipped it in with my cowtail and hauled butt to the shoreline or some eddy. not that that is the proper way to do it, but in easier waters it sure is fast and uncomplicated.
overall you did the responsible thing and stayed safe yourself. good call.
btw: love the animations (i know thats a lot of work, so mad props for the effort!) ♥
My ability to bulldoze boats is something I need to work on, as I didn't feel like I was able to bulldoze it to shore or an eddy, with how manky and how continuous of a run this was. And I also didn't feel comfortable towing it either, at least not in this kind of current and rapids. Most of that is a reflection of my skill level, rather than anything.
Thanks for the feedback tho! Constructive criticism is always appreciated :)
And animations, as you know, are very very time consuming haha :)
I’m from the west coast so I’m not familiar with that run but my only question is why? Once the boat was on shore and empty WHY take it down stream? Where was it’s owner? Once they lowered it over the ledge and it got back surfed and refilled WHY unclip it? Why not drag it to shore before unclipping it. Where were you trying to take the boat?
H! Thanks for watching! This video and really, the channel, is about progression and learning from mistakes. I posted this so that myself and others can learn what we did wrong (a lot) and know better in the future.
With that said, this run is a step up run. Often people put on and are outclassed by the river. It’s also super continuous so stuff goes down river for forever.
The owner was (I was told) about a quarter mile upriver of the initial spot, making his way down the road. The road access is on the other side, and so we were trying to get the boat over to the other side of the river.
I did make a part 3 where I go over many of the mistakes and discussions that were generated from this video, but the summary was that the best thing to do in this scenario was to leave the boat on the shore empty and the swimmer could go get it after the water gets turned off.
Anyways, I appreciate the feedback! Hope you have a happy holidays! :)
@@JerKayaks I am also a newer kayaker and have only been kayaking for a little over a year now. If you haven’t done it yet I would highly recommend taking a swift water rescue course and one that is kayak specific if possible. Many of these scenarios are covered in those courses and as many others have stated the primary goal is to keep you safe before any gear. I responded prior to seeing the third video but now that I have I think that you understand the traps that you fell into. Being tired and not thinking clearly is one of the biggest traps on the river. We all want to help and as you said “be the nice guy” but be safe first and don’t put yourself in danger just to rescue a boat. And if at all possible don’t closely follow a boat down stream. I was rescuing a boat in my earlier days after a difficult rapid and was chasing it down stream. When I caught it I tried to wrangle it with my hands like you were doing and it hit a rock, suddenly stopping dead in the river. It’s tail rose up with the force of the water and caught me under the chin almost knocking me out as I slammed into it. I learned very quickly to let the boat go through rapids and give it space until you can either bull doze it or clip onto it and drag it to safety.
P.S. like what you are doing and keep up the good work. But be safe out there😊
Thanks for the feedback and thanks for watching! This was definitely a huge learning experience for me, and a lot of it came from a place of good intentions!
Hope that you progress well in your ww career! :)
Great video. Enjoyed the animations! Well done (animations and the boat rescue)! How did you do the animations?
Thanks! I’m super new and learning to animate, so a lot of it is still super sloppy and time consuming. I’m using FlipaClip, which is an iPad app for frame by frame animation!
@@JerKayaks No, I loved the "kiddish" animation. The animation timing was excellent, which is more important than the detail. I'll have to check that FlipaClip out, thanks!
My comment is less about your actions, Jer. It seems like you've thought those through.
I think one other lesson is to always have experience (at any given grade) within a group. It's cool that people form up to go paddling but you really need some team members who are capable of sorting out a situation when it all starts going bad. It shouldn't fall to random strangers on the river to have to look after you and your kit
I totally agree! I am not sure what group the swimmer belonged to, or what their skill level was, so I don't want to make any assumptions on that regard.
That being said, I think many of us that day failed to understand the difference between boating skill and rescue skill. Just because someone has high skill in one does not mean they have a matching level of skill in the other!
Thanks for watching :)
I can easily imagine making same/similar mistakes. I'm not sure what the "right" thing to do would be. I'll have to came back to comments later to see what the experienced boaters have to say
Thanks for watching! There is currently a discussion thread happening on the Carolina Canoe Club Facebook page about it! I'm hoping everyone can learn from the mistakes made, mine especially, so that they dont happen again
@@JerKayaksI love that attitude. Lots to learn from mistakes and really helpful for others when someone is willing to share the mistakes and lessons learned
As a pro swimmer…🤣😂 some situations, you just have to get out of the water and hope for the best. Like big, fast, bouldery drops 😮
That run didn’t look too bad. I definitely would’ve helped recover my yard sale!!
(More cartoons plz 🤣)
Thanks for watching! Hoping to continue to animate more in the future! :)
Should not have unclipped it in the top eddy. They could have easily hauled it over to the side. Ultimate goal would be to get it to the owner or where they could find it easily.
I agree, many lessons were learned from this! Thanks for your input and thanks for watching! :)
I’m trying to figure out why you didn’t just immediately tow the boat to the road. The entire run is roadside, so you’re never more than 50 feet from pavement
Thanks for watching! The current where the boat was taken out looked worse than the current near where I was. The goal was to get it down to me so I could tow it across.
Then obviously, mistakes were made and that plan went out the window.
Why did you unclip the boat from the rope, after it backsurfed and filled with water?
@@davidpeek7385 Hi! At that moment in time, due to inexperience, I thought I had it under control and could get it into the eddy that I was in. It's one of the many mistakes I made during this event, and something that I have learned from! Thanks for watching! Hope you have a great 2022!
I see a dozen boaters on the river and none of them helping. That's BS!
You don't know their skill level.
Rick is right. You cannot assume that they have the skill level to help. That group there was actually a first timer group I believe. Group leader is the red and black boat peeling out at about the 1:48 mark
you can ask for help and people can choose to help at that point if they are able to.
get on a course! and learn to ask for help. the majority of this could have been avoided from the outset. well done for getting out paddling and thinking of others.
Thanks for watching! A lot of this definitely could have been avoided for sure. I did ask for help at some points, but unfortunately the help either didn't happen or was ineffective.
I would have tried to bull doz the boat to shore and not hold onto it.
Thanks for watching! In hindsight, I absolutely agree! I actually made a part 3 to this where I addressed a lot of the points, and one of the big takeaways was to try and bulldoze the boat more, or even just leave it where we found it! Hope you have a good 2022!
I'm not certain I'd call the time after the video died "a pin".
Let the boat go. Any time you'd define what you're doing "sketchy" to save a boat, placing yourself at unnecessary risk? Heck, it's roadside, and the water turns off. Follow it until it's safe. Run things backwards to guide it? Nope.
Why did you disconnect the boat from the rope initially before it was secure?
I made the wrong decision to disconnect the line. I thought I could get it into the eddy, which turned out to not be the case
I had the best of intentions throughout the situation, and looking back it may have been better to just leave the boat where it was originally.
Lessons learned for next time!
totally unnecessary situation. the boat was initially in a stable situation. the two guys got out & emptied it, and elected to lower it to the next big eddy. then it all went wrong.
how it should have been done....
1. Jer should have got out his boat to catch it. there was never any way he could receive the boat the lowered boat, or put it ashore while Jer was still in his boat. - this is a theme from the series of rescue videos of that day.... get out your boat.
2. even when refilled with water the boat was still easily held by the rope held by the upstream guys. why was the boat unclipped?? the situation was still stable, and again, a person onshore could have easily sorted it out without the boat becoming loose on the river.
3. once it was refloated and loose, a rescue towline would have sorted it out within 100yards.
4. not a great idea to hang onto the boat in such a rocky river. you put yourself at risk. you have little ability to manoeuver while holding another boat and so risk a double pinning (as seen almost happening a couple of times). get clear. - note, if you are pinned and a swamped boat is coming down at you, unless you are pinned underwater then 95% of the time it will go under you anyway.
5. if you are clear you could bulldoze the boat to the side when opportunity happens. hanging on you cant paddle anything anywhere, not even yourself. - note that the newer high rocker boats like a rewind etc are harder to use as a bulldozer than older designs like axioms. in the newer designs the bows ride up over swamped boats.... practice to see. a light paddler in a high rocker boat can simply just go over a swamped boat and not push anything anywhere. know what your gear is capable of or not.
6. communicate with others. there were lots of other boaters.... someone else should have gone ahead, got out, thrown you a rope while you were floating with it, you could clip it, and they could have pulled it ashore. problem sorted within 2 minutes.
7. the final 'get it from one side to another' problem.
-towline.
-or get the person who was holding it to paddle it over then return them to their own boat by a stern deck carry (it looked an easy spot with a good runout).
-or Use 1 big 75' single rope, its much easier for the thrower to aim at anywhere on the other bank than have 2 throwers both aiming a small moving target in the middle of the river who is trying to stay in place.
-if you're in the mid-river eddy, then its best to get out your boat and sit on the rock causing the eddy. by staying in your boat when ropes are being thrown around you are at risk of entanglement or losing your paddle while trying to catch them. as you probably found out, its quite difficult to catch a rope when you are floating about & trying to paddle too.
its all a learning experience, go and set up practice senarios to learn how to deal with these common situations. Even complete beginners benefit from rescue practice practice. we all learnt by getting to wrong. Next time you will have more options.
Hey! Thanks for the tips and feedback! This was one of the first scenarios like this that I had ever had to deal with, and like you said, it was a learning one.
Looking back with the experience that I've gained since then, I would have made many different decisions. A lot of the stuff that happened in this video is what helped me learn, and for that I am grateful.
Anyways, thanks for the tips and thanks for watching! :)