Is Universes Beyond Bad for Magic? | Wizards of the Coast | Hasbro | Magic the Gathering
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ต.ค. 2024
- The Commander's Quarters is your Magic the Gathering source that helps you Command Your Budget! Today Eric joins Mitch to answer the question: Is Universes Beyond Good or Bad for Magic?
----------
Cards on the Episode:
tcgplayer.pxf....
----------
When you are buying decks or individual cards, make sure you are using any of our TCGplayer affiliate links below to help support the channel!
Commander's Quarters general affiliate link:
tcgplayer.pxf.i...
Commander's Quarters decklists:
tcgplayer.pxf.i...
----------
Get your official Commander's Quarters swag at:
thecommandersqu...
----------
Follow and reach out to us on social media!
Instagram: / thecommandersquarters
Twitter: / edhquarters
Facebook: / thecommandersquarters
![[DRIP] ‘Woke Up In Tokyo (RUKA & ASA)’ PREVIEW](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QN44lcR_VkI/mqdefault.jpg)
What's bad for Magic is that Wizards are flooding the market with an insane amount of products. Just like Disney seem to release a new Star Wars show every other week, WotC has released so many sets in the past two years that I doubt I could even name them all. UB is just a symptom of their attempt to milk every single bit of money possible out of their IPs as fast as they can.
This. This is. Thank you 4 speaking the truth
This is exactly what I was going to say. It's not necessarily WHAT the product is, even tho there are definitely some bad products. There are just way too many, too fast.
Personally, I would 100% support a new set every year that is part of the block(or however the sets used to release) and then 5 commander precon decks, per year. And each of those decks will focus on one of the color combos. If they did that every year, I think it can be perfectly sustainable.
*Edit* also have the regular precon decks(get started, let's play, etc that are part of that block)
Yep you are correct my friend
Absolutely this. In my opinion it wouldn’t be an issue if each one was this well thought out, but with just the sheer amount of everything being released we’re getting so so product a good portion of the time. It sucks that when you have 20 to 30 secret lairs a month only 3 of them are amazing.
Spot on. I have legit stopped being excited for new cards and sets. Its like 'oh, another OP, busted card. Maybe I get it, maybe not. There will be something else next month- no rush and it will probably be more busted anyhow.'
One set of Universes Beyond a year would be good, the issue is they've diluted things so much that nobody, except for the person reading this and myself, cares about the actual MTG storyline or characters anymore.
They've had so many opportunities to make the Magic universe itself the center stage, and it is a bit sad that it's still on the back burner. I'm talking about the Netflix deals, and since Hasbro is at the helm, toys to a greater extent. There's so much story and so many characters, it's wild that they're using the crutch of UB.
I was only following the story for a long time before I got back into playing (played in 2013 and didn't play again until 2021) the story is the only thing that kept me interested in Magic during those years
I will say that, as a Warhammer fan, I bought my first cards because of the 40k Orks Secret Lair, but that wasn't enough to get me to get *into* the game. For that, it took a coworker inviting me to a game store after work and letting me borrow his deck for a game. The excitement of nearly defeating my opponents (I did not succeed) with only 1 HP left hooked me. Naturally, the Zurgo HelmSmasher/Ghazghkull Thraka from the Secret Lair was my first Commander, but I credit people and gameplay to why I am into the game today.
The 40k decks were absolutely amazing and in my opinion are a good example of Universes Beyond done right. They don’t introduce any new mechanics and a lot of the cards can go well with other decks. Like if you wanna improve the Necron deck there will be new artifacts that can go with them.
Also you can use the original cards to boost other decks. I use Shadows in the Warp in an agro Gruul deck and it’s held out with making it a bit faster.
LOTR is what brought me into the game. Dropped 2k opening day and now I'm 15 commander decks deep and counting lol
So like me you have a deck building problem
This is me as well xD
Same, but for the 40k deck. I saw the Necrons and said "Give me now"
@@baconthegatewaymeat9131 I want to build everything haha its a problem.
When I first started I just went on my local fb shop and bought bulk collections for cheap and built the most subpar decks out of them and had the most fun.
@@Cheshire020 only have the investigator deck but there are a ton of 40k cards I like that I'm on the hunt to add
The game has gotten crazy and makes it really hard to determine power levels as well as new players feeling swamped. Many people play for years and still are confused by how many different things take place in the game.
Rick is an absolute treasure. Unfortunately his wife passed away at a young age to cancel, Rick left acting to be a full time father. An absolute treasure
I wouldn’t have gotten into magic if it wasn’t for the DnD sets and wouldn’t have been introduced to commander without my brother getting the Warhammer sets. Great for introducing new players into MTG
They can be yea but I do think they need to make ub a once a year thing. Be far better to see more new planes and sets in the mtg universe instead of things from other franchises.
@@aclevername7613 that and handling them like doctor who/ warhammer...4-5 commander decks= full set....
not what they did with lotrs
It killed my 20+ year love of building decks, seeing the divide that and caused and being a part of the problem having buying into the secret lair hype when it was new I am sick to my stomach seeing this happen. I can imagine it would be less impactful if it was like 1 set a year but now they are opening the flood gates
Agreed. I am no longer welcome at local commender events since the moment some one is tempted by the ring i just scoop. (I can play againt them and beat them but its just no fun), it just ruined the best format. If they kept them out of commander and maybe even gave them there own brawl 60 or something format fine, but i can not go 3 4player matches without getting a UB deck style soffed in my face.
I think so, the power level compared to regular sets is just too much and I’m also personally not a fan of outside of magic properties being represented in the game
Well, I am, so it kinda sounds like a you problem
MTG has become the Smash Bros of card games.
IMO, the best magic felt was the 2-Set Block design during the BFZ/OGW era.
Honestly, I’d love to go back to 3-Set Blocks and have longer more self-contained stories on different planes. For me, the actual best designed Block was OG Innistrad. Innistrad was a setup and intro to the plane (and kinda the original set that started the War of the Spark story if you think about it), Dark Ascension gave us more background about why Innistrad was in shambles as well as setting up why Lilliana was on Innistrad in the first place, and Avacyn Restored was a finale of Lilliana’s goals of killing Griselbrand.
The moment they released Rick, I was sounding the alarm that we would end up where we are now.
I started playing magic in 2000, stopped after New Phyrexia. I saw an advertisement for the Street Fighter Secret Lair and thought it was cool, figured I’d add it to my collection but it became the spark that got me back into playing. It’s a way different game today than I learned 23 years ago. I have mixed feeling about the Universes Beyond stuff, it is kinda immersion breaking but at the same time I may wind up refinancing my house when the Final Fantasy one drops because FF is my favorite video game franchise and I can’t wait to play it in my favorite card game. So I guess I agree, it’s complicated and I fully get it that some people don’t like it. Play what you like, enjoy your game how you want because at the end of the day that’s why we play in the first place.
the ones complaining are probably the ones that dont even show up to friday night magic, cause all you see is people playing UB stuff....claiming the "identity of magic is lost boo hoo" what identity????? its been gatewatch down our throats for the last 15 years!!! i was so sick of seeing the same stupid cast over and over, i LOVE seeing the tenth doctor at the table against optimus prime...thank fucking god its not jace or chandra......
I actually got back into magic after quitting in the mid 90s due to the Lord of the Rings and Final Fantays announcement. I don't mind the Marvel one since Overpowered was a card game I played after Magic and it would be neat to see that come full circle.
Lord of the rings has been one of my favorites to collect and is what got me back into magic also. Not sure how I feel about the other universes beyond. The stuff I’m not into beyond or not I just don’t buy.
I am so hyped for the Final Fantasy release. Wasn’t interested at all in LoTR, Doctor Who, Walking Dead. Went heavy into both D&D releases.
Yeah same for me I stopped playing years ago but got back in to it due to lotr I may or may not be 300+ into them to restart my collection
I mean, it’s also important to reference the reprintability of these cards? Like they won’t renew the cost of the license to randomly reprint the one ring or Gandalf down the road when it needs to be.
Well that's true they would most likely do what they do with the walking Dead cards and just make them in universe versions.
Got into magic because of the Warhammer 40k sets, since i love the lore behind it. I love the suggestion of a Witcher and Dark Souls/Bloodborne/Elden Ring set would be amazing. Also hoping for a Cosmere set at some point especially since Brandon Sanderson is such a huge MTG fan.
They need to make Happy Days universes beyond, so we can get a literal shark jumping mtg card
I got into magic around Dominaria United, so about a year ago. I'm just to the cross overs and I like them for the most part. Having a lot of Gandalfs is indeed offputting. Leave it at 1-2 maybe a third as a precon commander (or have the second version as a precon commander). Overall I love the possibility that Magic gives for IP's outside of gaming or specifically the card game genre to be recontextualized as card game pieces. The power creep with LotR or making the precons like dr. Who better than regular set precons is kind of scummy to me though (but i still have to build the master multiplied that card is so sick).
As long as they balance it fairly and don't do it too much (which it very much looks like they're going to sadly) i'm a big fan.
Yeah, it is really fun. Turning magic into a smash bros card game even sounds like a fun idea on paper.
Having the possibility of Darth Vader vs Gandalf, Superman vs Goku and Mario vs Halo sounds awesome by itself.
The problem is that there is too much, the focus is on the money and so it is losing its soul.
Like the colors will lose their purpose.
There should only be one set for a different IP per year at max.
I think one issue is that magic isn't branching out itself to other media. There should be MTG movies, cartoons, anime, manga, a netflix series, new books and graphic novels, and more general merch.
Magic:_The_Gathering_(TV_series), the rpg that failed becuase no one would play, the books everyone talked trash about...i mean...they're trying man...but they're not going to keep just failing over and over...and then to have a comment like you'res stating so matter of factly that theyre not branching....they are, but mtg players are not tuning into the branches....
I was introduced through a coworker while I was playing arena casually a year ago. The universes beyond is neat in a commander setting with all the fun proxy cards that create depth and goofy ideas. I fell in love with the unique lore and the first set to do that was all will be one. I really want wizards to focus on the world they already have built. However quarterly profits to impress investors will always shine higher than creative integrity. Companies like Hasbro want to touch every demographic as possible with the potential to develop regular customers. You see it in every industry now. Fashion and footwear have collaborations with brands that have zero involvement in the industry, just walking billboards. Brand integrity does not insinuate growth and WOTC wants more growth.
I agree with you. We don't need commander decks with every set.
The LOTR Tales of Middle Earth is the only reason i got into this game. I played tons of different card games but never cared for magic, LOTR brought me to the game.
24:00 I’m new to magic the LOTR set got me hooked into magic bc I love the movies. I know little about old MTG but it seems simpler compared to now a days how much text/mech/cost the game is. But I love that I came around to learning about it.
I got into Magic at Ixalan. I thought the way they did Godzilla was cool, but I didn’t like the Walking Dead Secret Lair. I stopped playing Magic after New Capenna because even the commons had a paragraph of text, and I wasn’t down with that. I heard about the Doctor Who set and wasn’t interested until it actually came out. I made my first new EDH deck in two years with Tenth Doctor and Rose. I absolutely LOVE this set. I really like that they have the four decks and the collector boosters with no mechanically unique cards. I don’t know if I am back into Magic, but this is the first Magic product I have bought for myself in like two years. It was a perfectly designed set, and I just love every single card. They need to bring back core sets for new players.
My friends got into Magic when the Lord of the Rings cards came out. They have been playing 3x a week since and have invested heavily into it. They brought me in a few months ago and the New Cappena world is what grabbed my attention. I am now broke from how many decks I have made since August. Haha
My brother recently got into it because of the Dr. Who (and me pestering him). I have another friend excited to get into Magic once the Fallout decks get here.
It definitely is bringing in new players, and we are sticking around. The thing that helped us all stay into it is that it was a group of friends doing it together. If we were trying to jump in solo I don’t think it would have happened.
So I think these are good ideas but I would love to see them slow down with how many universes they add. My head is spinning with all the new additions.
For my top 3 worlds I want to see added:
1. Stephen King’s The Dark Tower
2. RedWall
3. Bloodborne
@24:55 - Omniverse : the global aglomeraation of everything -verse.
This is the word you were looking for !
I wonder how much getting the MTG audience into other IPs is a factor in UB - I would never have gotten into Dr. Who without the introduction to the characters I got through the card previews and wanting to build around Me, the Immortal
I think the bigger picture problem Magic has is more related to the change in focus of story and stepping away from block formatting. I feel they lost the progression of the story. It no longer feels like the sets work together in a narrative way, the "story" is something that just exists online instead of thru books, flavor text and seeing changes is the major characters. The phyrexian invasion should have been this amazing time, an end of the year extravaganza and eventual celebration of defeating the literal big bag of the magic universe. Instead the set released mid year, the story was only really followable online and if you didn't know about the online story you would be confused about "desparked" Planeswalkers, who lived and died ECT.
I feel once they stepped away from block formatting they opened the door for these one of sets to "parody" known universes. Because they weren't using the sets to push the story. I didn't forsee they were going to just print LOTR instead of a parody.
Universe beyond : LOTR really brought me back to magic. It's been a long way since then to rebuild part of my old collection, but now i'm up to 15 commander decks! I did really enjoyed cooking around lotr themes, I started with the 4 precons and got them all upgraded, I builded Gandalf the White, Sméagol, Helpfull Guide, Samwise, Frodo and 2 versions of Sauron. I'm still working on Bilbo and a third version of Sauron/Lord of Nazguls. I had Breya from 2016 that I upgraded almost cedh level. The overrall power level of this stuff is insane! I had to start powering down a few decks to precon level...because not everyone is invested in the game as I do! In overall I believe that universe beyond add positive to the game, even if i'm not interrested in some of them.
*Also got my brother into the game since he experienced the power of Eowyn and Rick Grimes. After all theses years playing with my decks he finally builded his own!
Only secret lair I've ever bought or cared about was the restless in peace one. With Dan Mumford art for bloodghast, life from the loam, and golgari thug. And screw the rc. They just ban things they don't like.
My biggest problem with these universes beyond cards are the new cards created for the release, that then go on to become must have cards.
(The One Ring, Ancient Copper Dragon, Everyone Lives!)
With these being collabs, what is the actual likelihood of reprints for these cards?
Ancient Copper Dragon while D&D is considered UW because in the lore they are in the same universe as Planewalking started in D&D the others probably likely with Everyone Lives it would be decently easy to make a story lore reason to put it in one ring significantly harder
Eragon and the Inheritance Cycle books also would make for excellent Universes Beyond content but its clear that WOTC will prefer bigger IP’s for its contracts.
About lore, imagery, quality of artwork, design of carsd and power related to Doctor Who lore... this is a gem! It is not always thematically tied to the characters, BUT the images represent moments and lore of the show that are important to the 60years.. Some like ""River Song's Diary", are deep lore images (it's about a specific episode showing this diary!) and the most amazing power is surely the show-tied powerful card "Garlifrey Stands" , those 2 are barely the tip of the iceberg of "deeper than meets the eye" references in that set. I confirm this as a whovian and card deck building geek = this is a gem of a set ! I will not pardon them if they don't release a 15th Doctor / Ncuti Gatwa deck...
I only play MTG because of UB. 40K and LotR got me and my friends into the game, and now we love it and get together to play every week. I loved the LotR set so much that I collected a full set of it. They were definitely successful attracting new players with it.
I originally played magic during Scars of mirrodin, playing 40 card standard in college. Since then, I hadn't played or even touched magic cards until the D&D release when a work buddy and I bought a booster box since we were both D&D fans and he played magic. I feel like it CAN draw people in, but it has to be done well. D&D and Lord of the Rings are synergistic in a way most of the UB sets aren't.
The sad part is because of the new features on these cards, many are seeing play because it has messed with power levels in casual play
I'm a new player and I love all the alt art cards, all the universe expanded sets, everything they are doing is great in my opinion and I think that for magic to live a long life this is the way
WE need and should have more interesting planes and building the mtg world more not being advertisments for other franchises.
UB should only exist as alternate art to existing cards and only in Secret Lairs.
Nothing sucks more than cracking a pack to get a mythic slot thats Optimus Prime or Chris Pratt
actually nothing sucks more than the 827538 different art treatments...period...those should only be in collectors boosters...
@22:42 - the actress of Aria Stark, plays "Me" Ishildr, an eternal. She is the only being standing with the Doctor at the end of time. OP ... her card should be OP. But the show and images show actual people in their roles of the show, some are cartoons. But the precedent has been set with the best Puzzle RPG ever :Doctor Who Legacy.
She is in a setting / era that is close to Magic the gathering incidently friends. It fits MAGIC the duo of episodes she is intially seen in. And show how doctor who MIXES with magic and medieval setting !!!
I actually started the game when i saw the WH40k decks. I was interested before, but those were what made me start collecting cards to boost them.
Eventually, I joined a random group to play and now we play once week minimum :)
I understand that Universe Beyond breaks the immersion, but in the end you just want to play a deck that you will enjoy playing.
You can keep your vanilla goblin deck, while some other dude could play a deck of Carebears haha
The more people to share our passion with, the better :)
No need for gate keeping, but yes i've noticed those prices going up and i've only started a year ago ish.
Universes beyond should be casual only, not vintage or legacy and competitive 💯
Shouldn't be casual either TBH. These aren't magic.
But then people won't buy them.😢 it's the same reason as why the changed the un-sets to contain some legal cards that are coincidentally really strong. 🤔
@@starviper1813 darn the greed and manipulation
I'll be honest, the moment I heard about the Marvel collab, I immediately jumped into Magic which I haven't touched since the mid 90's (really wish I had the old cards). I had dropped it as it was to complicated for me then. Still feels that way but at least I can watch videos and start learning. But I LOVED collecting Marvel cards and now knowing there will be tie in has be completely hyped. I plan to spend a lot when the Marvel is released and I've been dabbling by buying LOTR and just getting a feel for it all. I don't know how wide spread it is, but I'm someone who is getting roped back in by Wizards. I still may go down the path of collecting more than playing, but it definitely ignited an old love I've had. I'm sad to see the frustrations that people are feeling with the expansion of the universes, I can understand it. Overall though I find it fun as a old but new player.
I got into commander because of LotR and my wife plays the Dr who precon. I hate the price of the products but I love the game
Yeah, I love the Doctor Who set, and I didn’t like the prices of the precons, so I just made my own deck. I have been curious how the different UB commander decks have fared against one another.
I started my magic journey about six months ago mostly edh and standard, maybe a lack of respect for plains or lore but I really enjoy universe’s beyond, currently foaming at the mouth for fallout, I loved warhammer
Honestly it's going to make me sound like a stick in the mud but i stopped playing for this reason. Flavor is an important part of a card game when i sit down and play magic i want to play magic not dr who, not jurassic park, i want to play magic. I was okay with cards that were just alt arts, even thought it was a little cool. I could even over look d&d because it was at least really close to fitting in mtg but beyond that i just don't want it.
i mean...the whole story of mtg is about travelling through different planes...doctor who/ jurassic park...ok i can see thats weird...but warhammer and lotrs fits right in too....
I have a Kyler human tribal deck. I didn’t approve of the race changing in the LOTR set and was going to not put any money towards it… then there was Horn of Gondor which was just too powerful not to pick up! I feel like I am part of the problem!
I honestly started playing just because of my friend group, but I happened to start playing one month before the announcement that Doctor Who commander decks were coming to MTG, which got me beyond excited as a longtime fan.
I get that universe beyond can be too much but I can honestly say that I'm so happy to be able to play the same card game my friends play and use my favourite IP as well.
I completely agree with some of your points though. Certain UB things feel like a quick cashgrab. However Doctor Who UB is genuinely so flavorful and they've managed to meld the MTG mechanics with Doctor Who flavor to make cards that still feels like any other MTG card mechanics wise.
If they continue the same trend for other UB products I can totally see MTG becoming a the card game that gets more people into the game
My buddies got me into magic and I started with a basic precon and I refused to build decks or drop anymore money on cards. Then my friends and I stopped at a card store and that's when I found out about secret lair. I looked through a binder of SLD options that the store had. Then it happened. I ran into The Walking Dead SLD and I am a huge Negan fan and without hesitation I bought it. I went home and my friends had told me that the walking dead cards were legal to play. So then my friend taught me how to build decks on moxfield and EDHREC. Now here I am years later building multiple decks with commanders like Brenard Ginger Sculptor, Rick steadfast leader, Runo StormKirk, Myra the Magnificent, and my top deck that I've put the most money in, Negan the Cold-Blooded. If it wasn't for TWD SLD I wouldn't be as big of a magic fan as I am now.
Recently at a games night I sat down at a table and we joked about having a doctor who deck vs a lord of the rings and transformers deck. That laughter soon turned to a feeling of mutual awkwardness that we may have contributed to a negative aspect out of honest intentions to support and play something we enjoy.
That the same problems with regular cards! you can have an Hippo with wings, an ancient grec gog, a ninja rat and an lovecraftian alien at the same table... There is no problems here! So why does a Time traveler and a Hobbit cannot fight?
That's a fair point. Maybe it's the feeling of corporate transparency it gives... Or more often than not the visual aesthetic and theme clashes. I can get on board with strange creatures fighting each other but characters from different franchises feels like that's something else entirely
.......Did it ever stop being bad for Magic?
I returned to Magic during the Covid lockdowns after seeing The Walking Dead Secret Lair in my Facebook feed. I quit Magic around Visions and hadn’t played anything other than an occasional cube draft with friends. I have Commander decks for all five characters and Lucille in the 99 for Negan where she belongs. Bought the set and jumped on to TH-cam looking for tips to be greeted by a chorus of bellyaching content creators 🤪. I will say that I have not once had a player give me a hard time for playing my Walking Dead decks.
I... Don't like universes beyond. The only one I sort of connected with was LOTR, which I didn't buy because of the price tag. I play Warhammer, but my faction did not get a deck, so I was ambivalent about the others. I never got into Dr Who, so that set felt straight up alienating to me. The fact that the power level is high means that I now feel I have to get cards from these sets even though I don't care about them and their flavor is sort of wrong when mixing with what I already have.
I will say it’s working to get players into the game which is kinda what you want as a gaming company if you’re not growing you’re dying. My main game has always been yugioh and I got into magic heavy with the Street fighter Secret lair. I’ve been building and upgrading my commander decks based around chun li dhalsim ryu and blanka and I’m planning on building all 8 characters. Safe to say I’m hooked now on playing commander so they did a great job imo
I'm up and down with the new magic cards. I started playing during the Masques block (prophecy was the first booster cards I bought). I played at the end of elementary school and until about HS. I played a lot of sports though and didn't have a ton of friends that played during HS so didn't play too much besides a few games here and there. Got really back into it during Lorwyn but didn't play much standard. Played mainly draft and a group of 8 people or so would a multiplayer format of 60 card decks in college. We would play till about 4-5 in the morning at times. This was around the time of EDH starting to become a thing but wasn't really that popular. Then I moved back to my hometown and didn't have too many people to play with. Would go to the LGS and ran into some old acquaintances and a good friend from HS. we started playing again and they got me into commander. Kinda go off and on when we are able to get games going and life chills out a bit. Have like 7-8 commander decks so not too much money. Started playing a good amount during the new LOTR set which I bought all 4 decks but haven't played all of them. The Riders of Rohan deck is pretty great though. Just upgraded 5-7 cards and it seems to go off pretty consistency.
Game of thrones and Narnia would be decent sets set in fantasy worlds, and then wild card imma say Naruto lets get some ninjas
Universes beyond is what got me into magic so i love it. It brings people who normally never thought to get into it potentially a starting place. I dont think its bad for the game at all, its no worse than the janky stuff ppl play with from older cards and but still hyped for things final fantasy and fallout since thats what keeps it interesting!
For silver linings, I think it would be fun to have "Celebrity Commander" ala SNL's Celebrity Jeopardy, where everybody does an impression of the actor depicted by their commander
I did get into magic and specifically commander because of the warhammer precons but I’m definitely with you when it comes to wanting the IP’s to be magic adjacent and not marvel, Harry Potter and the like
I don't mind the Secret Lairs where its just alternate art. Esp things like the Princess Bride which I thought had some amazing art treatments. What I do mind is the insane cash grab that is selling 5 basic lands with alternate art for 40$. For that much money...and its the most common card possible...you should get enough lands to construct a 60 card deck at the least. As for UB; I think it does kind of make the game cheesy when you have Gandalf fighting Ultramarines and Optimus Prime. Also, with the major IPs, they push cards with OP effects like The One Ring. I have a feeling there is going to be some exceptionally busted stuff in the Marvel UB.
I personally hate the Universe Beyond stuff WotC have been doing and I am huge fan of 40K, LotR, and Doctor Who! I just feel they don't fit into the game that well theme wise they don't fit and it seams like to sale Universe Beyond they are really pushing the power level pretty hard.
Interesting, we have discussed the same question last year with the warhammer precons. The good thing: New players are into that game. I think without this precons that players would not have stopped by. The sad thing: That kind of player is very quickly losing interest in playing magic.
The dnd sets were fine because there is a lot of crossover with the magic terms and creature types. All of the other ones were a mistake
Also wizards needs to stop making cards that interact with an opponent drawing a card.
Dr ho was the worst of the bunch. And marvel will be a serious mistake. There is nothing in wither of these that few like magic. The classic fantasy feel of traveling from plain to plain. People would be way more willing to buy packs if the cards in them actualy uphold value. The more artificial rarity you put into the game (printing less cards) the more they hold value and the more willing people will be to buy packs. Wizards needs to go back to printing 4 sets a year.
As someone who only started playing mtg at the end of summer this year, I feel like universes beyond can be a good thing if they do not overdo it but if it wasn't for universes beyond i might not be an mtg player rn, as the warhammer decks are what caused me to finally try the game, i used it as a launching off point then began playing and exploring sets based on actual mtg and now I play a full on vampire deck with my only universes beyond card in the deck is a phyrexian tower turned into dracula's tomb for flavor of the deck itself. But as i joined the game it seems it has begun to just go speedy fast with every set having crossover stuff, it can work but I feel maybe they should slow it down,maybe one set a year not like...20?
It was Warhammer that brought me back after more than 20 years. The decks were phantastic, with great artwork and lore accurate cards. Does 40k fit into MtG? Dr Who? I don't really think so. Stopped playing the game again recently because of the sheer quantity of new released products and the way they dilute what made Magic special.
I wouldn't mind it as much if we got 1 universes beyond product a year. Like it would be fine if it was just lord of the rings, and we got Dr. Who by itself next year. But to go from Lord of the Rings, to Dr. Who, to Jurassic Park, to Fallout, to Snoop Dogg within like 6 months of each other just feels like this isn't magic, it's a giant billboard like you said.
Fallout and Snoop won't come out till late 1st quarter next year so it will be 9 months in between LOTR and Fallout
So I started magic back in 6th edition and played up until the original kamigawa, and I did not get back into it until this year right before the doctor who stuff came out. I got back into it because my stepson our neighbors and things like that play a lot so I have a consistent playgroup so I missed a lot of things coming back into it from when I started. But in that time I will say it does feel like a lot of product has come out just in these past few months and it can be difficult to keep up with for sure but also on the side I really like the universes beyond stuff because it allows me to play a game that I'm enjoying with familiar characters of another IP that I also enjoy. To be honest I'm really excited about the fallout assassin's Creed and final fantasy sets and now I can play with those characters while I'm playing magic which is an awesome thing.
I came back to this game because of the lotr set, and while there are meta bending cards the set was very fun, the cards where flavourful and the art (aside from the trippy weird stuff they did with the second special set ) was amazing, from there i learned a bit more about Doctor Who and it seems to be an enjoyable show to watch some day, those are universes beyond and there is no "lore" in a table game of magic (otherwise you should not be saving your Elesh Norn with a Teferi's Protection because that would be lore breaking ) and as long those universes don't splash in the written lore for core sets is all fine, for UB that i don't care like Jurassic Park at least you can get a some buck selling or trading for stuff you actually want.
The art was awesome but the race swapping was shameful and offensive.
Undoubtedly, yes. Just had a game last night where a buddy tapped the One Ring for value, went to combat and swung with Optimus Prime equipped with Negan’s bat Lucille, another buddy blocked with Dr. Who and Rick Grimes.
Magic is losing its identity and gone nuts.
"make shivan dragon great again"? Come on, man. Things change.
what identity are you talking about....its been nothing but the fucking gatewatch for the last 15 years bud....i for one am in love with UB....finally, something other than another nicol bolas, or jace....
Not with doctor who, but it was Warhammer 40k that got me really interested into mtg. Now I'm looking at the lotr set for my next deck. I agree that certain ip feels weird in the setting, but overall I'm generally excited for some crossovers and that keeps me interested in the game.
I think the worst problem with UB is that the addition of certain chase cards is unnaturally prevalent. The reason i see this as the primary problem is because individuals who play on mechanics are now ultimately forced to grab some of these extremely powerful chase pieces or else lose a lot of deck building power. This is what leads to an apparent hodgepodge feel to decks.
UB Fallout is going even further beyond and making some commanders and token styles (Rad tokens) that you simply cannot find anywhere else. You _have to_ assimilate the theme. Because of this approach, we have games where someone could be playing Dr Who vs Transformers vs Lord of the Rings vs The Walkong Dead. It doesn't embolden creativity nor self expression anymore, it is an overly mixed and unbalanced salad which dilutes all of its parts. It looks, feels, and plays like "product placement" over substance.
What i would love to know is for the argument that doing transformers brings more players in and so on how long do they stay in the game? If they are in for the transformers will they still be playing or buying new product unless its transformers? How long do they remain in the game basically.
So I am a relatively new player. I came in shortly after the release of LOTR, but not because of it. I was introduced to it because of my DnD group and enjoyed the idea of another high fantasy game where I could lean into my role in the friend group as the “kobold fanatic”. I truly enjoyed the game as I understood it (as a parallel to DnD and in the high fantasy world). I wasn’t turned off by LOTR and thought it was an interesting include and an homage to the role it played in where high fantasy is today. However, it wasn’t necessarily my cup of tea.
As I got more and more into the game, I found myself getting more turned off by the universes beyond cards and felt like I jumped onto the new “Fortnite” train, especially when I heard about marvel, fallout, doctor who, and assassin’s creed. I felt like the reason I got into the game quickly began to wither away into another WOTC cash grab.
In regards to the number of cards that came out in 2023, it definitely hit me like a bus. I felt like in order to keep up with where MtG was going, I needed to invest slightly in each set. It hurt even more when my LGS started sacrificing the time they allocated for Commander, and re-allocated it for pre-releases. At this point, it feels like at least once every month I show up to my LGS, only to get turned away unless I want to play the pre-release draft. Once I saw the line up for next year, I feel like I’m just going to suffer through this all over again for another year if I want to continue to play commander without a solidified play group.
Trying to learn all the cards and all the mechanics that have been released in the past and are being released now has been a challenge, but not something that would turn me away from the game. On the flip side of this, it absolutely kills my mood when I have to be the only player in the pod having to read each creatures effect or what each spell does because I haven’t been exposed to MtG long enough, but I feel like that just has to be the learning curve when jumping into a game that’s been continuously growing for over 30 years. It probably didn’t help that I DID start playing MtG in the commander format, and was told by many veteran players teased that “I must have pissed off my friends if they started me in commander”.
All that said, I did come in during the LOTR craze when the 1 of 1 The One Ring search was still going on, and I did push myself to learn to be able to play with friends, and I had a lot of support from them and many other seasoned vets at my LGS. Without this kind of support system, I would have given up on MtG shortly after my first game. I know WOTC is pushing for the LGS’s to host events and tutorial sessions, but at the end of the day it’s the seasoned players with the patience to teach and big community voices like Commander’s Quarters, EDHRECast, and Game Knights who will get new people to continue to play, and WOTC will not be able to replicate that with any marketing or IP they try to push. For that reason, I think the universes beyond bubble will eventually pop (in a couple years) if they keep deviating too much from the heart of MtG, I just don’t know if MtG itself will be the same after it does. Maybe I’m just a new bright eyed and bushy tailed player who doesn’t know his head from his own back end, but that’s just my view on the current state of the game. I’m sure many people will disagree with me on a lot of this, and that’s okay, I don’t know MtG as well as many of you, and I don’t want to claim that I do. So I’m just going to continue to enjoy Commander where and when I can, and hopefully meet some more great people along the way.
As an old customer who does not like UB, it creates a better digestable product cycle. Right now, I just play Magic and don't worry about new products till end of Q2 (Modern Horizons). I don't buy Cluedo Manor, the theme park cowboys or whatever it is and the Fallout one and I don't feel like missing out on anything for the first time😊
I am just glad to have a functioning Temur Dragon for a commander. The Dreamer can only do so much
When Mitch said "Gandalf the Grey and Gandalf the White," it took every ounce of Eric's willpower not to respond "MONTY PYTHON AND THE HOLY GRAIL'S BLACK KNIGHT."
Longtime casual player* here - I just got back into the game more about 3 months ago after falling out of practice for about 7 years. For context, I originally learned how to play at the end of Alara and really started getting used to the lore and all around fantasy vibe thru the Zendikar, Scars, Innistrad, Ravnica, and Theros, before going to college and getting out of rhythm with metas and the allaround story trajectories up until just recently with Caverns. So all these UB properties and such are only being revealed to me thru my now steadier diet of MTG content and so I kindof am getting a taste of what a new player and and old(er) player feels about them. “Theyre cool! (mostly) But also….we already have a crazy complex multiverse that might want to be treated with more sanctity and appreciate from an originality standpoint. How is Urza any different than an Order 1886 Tesla? What happens when the Phyrexians try to take over Cybertron?
I think they should have stuck with maybe 10-20 per IP in a Secret Lair drop, but they would either be reprints (such as the Ian Malcolm JP cards) or get non-IP versions like with the Stranger Things "friends forever" partners. I think doing entire sets or Commander series spoils the identity of Magic. They have a really cool universe and characters that IMO are just as interesting as the major IP's.
It reminds me of when Lego started making Star Wars and Harry Potter sets, and eventually LotR, Marvel, DC, Jurassic World, and a lot of others. Those kind of pushed out their original castle, pirates, and space themes that were really awesome. Mega Blocks may have done it first and Lego got scared, as if Mega Blocks could ever make a better product than them. Likewise, I really don't see another TCGs outdoing Magic in terms of product quality and longevity.
I think the warhammer felt different because there was no new mechanics. It was artifacts/tokens/cascade which are normal things people see and build to interact with. But in LoTR you have ring bearer which people might not even know anything about or gets used wrong. Or Dr Who with Dr's companions and suspend mechanics that people don't usually interact with as much or build around. What if Final Fantasy has a summons sideboard can people be expected to know how to interact with something they don't understand? Fallout with have Rads. When you add new mechanics it's will make everything harder to get the rules understood correctly
probably late to this, but: I heard about the LOTR collab with magic on yt/twitter, because you just couldnt avoid it, and I didnt play magic at that time and even then I kinda felt put off by it. It didn't even feel cool to me, but then lost caverns of ixalan released and I saw dinosaurs and I love dinosaurs and friends gaslight me into playing magic with them so I build a Pantlaza deck and had a blast, and now I am lowkey addicted to.. magic, but like, the magic side of magic and not the universe beyond stuff. I also come from a yugioh background so we literally dont get any collabs like LOTR, we get some references at most. But yeah I usually prefer universe within stuff, I can make exceptions tho, like getting a Morgul Blade instead of the shadowspear or a party tree instead of great henge because I am a sucker for full art card. or if I put a merry rohan esquire in my boros deck, it wont be the end of my world. But if a universe within version was to exist I would at least think twice about it
Loss of identity!
My problem with Universes Beyond and the idea of bringing in outside players: the decks are good, they're fun, they're flavorful, and they use the most complicated, diverse set of abilities and rules that exist.
That's my issue with it. I love Dr. Who, but I'd be hard pressed to hand one of those decks to a new player. I'd hand over one of my simple decks with a simple plan that can hang: Edric, Arcades, those bad boys who I can sum up the PLAN in one line and focus on teaching how we get there with a game.
Dinosaurs and Jurassic Park got me into the game a few months ago, it was Jurassic Park that made me jump in before LCI dropped.
Wondering if Budget Rick Moranis has his own channel… very eloquent and insightful and I’d like to sub… loved you in Little Giants 👍🏼
I actually got into Magic because of Ikoria and the Godzilla cards back in 2020 and I've kept playing the card game since. I had no interest in magic before then. I only played yugioh and even then I didn't play it all the time like i do magic now. Universe's beyond is literally the reason I fell in love with MTG and still play it to this day.
I liked the LotR set... and I am sure I probably annoy my LGS because I keep building LotR decks, BUT I guess I overlooked the fact that there will be game of thrones mtg cards now, etc.
and like I've been reading marvel comics since before magic started and I'm still not excited about the magic cards for them
The author of Redwall is Brain Jacques (pronounced Jakes). Best children's series ever
I would LOVE a Spaceball secret lair. But it is impossible, it would break a contract. Mel Brooks agreed not to merchandise the movie when he asked Georges Lucas because of Star Wars
Wholeheartedly, unabashedly, vehemently and unequivocally yes.
I started playing magic in 1994 and quit after stronghold. The 40k cards are what brought me back into the game. Since I picked up the 40k decks we picked up the game night box with 5 mono decks. The game night is what drew in my family and the kids getting into commander. Admittedly I've invested in a few more commander decks. I think there is a hook that lures people into universe beyond because 40k got me. Fallout will get some gamers and younger crowds. At the end of the day it's so a cash grab. As for me I think I'm building 2 pods worth of decks and calling it quits because there's always a power shift. My old ice age burn deck gets wrecked in standard current cards. I have no desire to run competitively and have no idea if anything is banned as it's just for fun.
old godzilla was hoppin around Tokyo city like a big playground when suddenly....
As a concept, I like universes beyond. In terms of execution, the only ones that I really like so far are Lara Croft and Baldurs Gate/DnD. I'm all for adding flavor to cards but flavor shouldn't override balance or just having too many versions of a major character, and on top of that we're already under heavy product fatigue, so more product isn't the answer. Product Fatigue doesn't just apply to UB, it also applies to commander precons, and just the crazy rotation of sets we have going on. People would buy more product if they got a chance to actually reflect on all the cards in the set before getting MORE previews. I haven't properly looked at Wilds of Eldraine yet because there's so much going on, and I've barely looked at cards in the new Ixalan set.
Also remember that MTG started going heavily downhill when Hasbro bought them. WotC is keeping Hasbro alive and Hasbro is being a leech, not caring if the quality tanks or if people get product fatigue as long as it keeps them alive.
It subjects me to Dr. Who stuff. So yes.
I think Throne of Eldraine is what started this whole mess.
But for real though, and X-Men vs Street Fighter deck sounds amazing. 😁
Ikoria was a fantastic set. I absolutely loved it. Warhammer 40k commander decks really messed up the meta at the my shop. It was all downhill after that. The power creep is getting absolutely ridiculous. The amount of cards that straight up end games the second they hit the table is just obscene now. It really kills the flow of the game. We all understand wincons, decks are built around them. They are typically cool when they happen. The New ghalta for instance...8 drop 12/12 that dumps ALL dino's from your hand onto the board...well..what if they had half their deck in their hand before they play it and make sure everything has haste...yea...fun. NOT
This game has changed for the worse over the past 2 years. COVID, and not GATHERING for Magic the GATHERING, really destroyed the community and WoTC is doing whatever they possibly can to keep bringing new people in since old fans are dropping like flies.
He doesn't dump all dinos but all creatures and it's still not an issue. The card is ok, not broken.
May I politelly ask how the 40k precons altered your meta in any way?
What card in the 40k precons won you the game instantly? I own all 4 and I can't think of one card like that. You know what card wins you the game instantly though? Craterhoof Behemoth, Mirrodin Besieged, Thassa's Oracle, Cyclonic Rift and so many others. Ghalta is not a UB card and yes, it's disgustingly strong. In fact I had to modify my 40k precons so much in order to keep up with the meta that now each precon has less than 20% of the original cards.
@@avall0nNn1992no it's not. It's stupid OP. It dosn't even require you to cast it. You could just reanimate it turn 2. Its a lazy and retarded.
My friend knew I loved Doctor Who and wanted to get me into Magic. So he bought me the Timey Wimey deck. When we first started playing it there were so many cards HE didnt even understand. So I have not touched the deck since. Love the cards, but the learning curve turns me off like crazy. However, I grabbed the Merfolk LCI Precon and am having a BLAST with it. I've played magic for 2 months and I can already tell I am not a fan of UB, it adds so many random new mechanics that new and old players dont quite understand and it over complicates an already super complicated game.
I love having the doctor who cards, but I doubt I will actually utilize them for long term play.
I personally enjoyed the Warhammer and jurassic Park cards. But that's because i play Warhammer and use necrons in both Warhammer and now magic. Jurassic Park was wonderful because i love dinos and i first started playing during the original ixalan. So I've got more cool dinos to add. I don't know that I'd want another jp set, but i wouldn't automatically say no. Warhammer, i wouldn't mind more precons so i can grab my other main army
What sucks is that the flavor and effort and unique mechanics are all really well done, but its clear that the universes beyond card quality is at the expense of the regular releases having less resources dedicated to their development and overall being kinda mid.
As a Whovian, the Doctor Who sets are what drew me into MTG, I managed to get a friend who's an avid Dr Who fan to get into it, and recently I got another friend into it because of Lord of the Rings sets. I see and understand your point of view of how these Universes Beyond IPs are more financially motivated than anything else but I don't think I would have gotten into the game without UB personally, and now after playing for about 2 months, I wish I'd had gotten into Magic sooner.
So here's my question. If your playing Dr. Who cards, and they're playing LOTR cards, have you ever played Magic?
@@timmyg316 we’ve been immersed into the Magic IP cards, decks, and sets. We participated in the Ravnica draft at our LGS. We’re excited for Karlov manor as well as all the upcoming sets this year
I dont mind crossovers at all. The thing is, wotc is going to up the power levels no matter what. They will print new more powerful cards regardless if it is a crossover or just a new card they thought of. Excited for final fantasy. Building a cloud and sephiroth deck asap.
I think you look very good on a punk. It has to fit magic. This is actually a problem I already have with the Warhammer sets. They don't just exist in their bubble.
That's also the reason why I don't have any problems with the DnD and Lord of the Rings sets.
I wouldn't have any problems e.g. with a “Game of Thrones” or “The Wheel of Time” set because these IPs fit perfectly. But Doc Who, Transformer, Jurassic Park... Not to mention that there are now simply too many products in a short time.
I agree a lot. I love seeing some specific title but I feel that could be something I could do as a proxy. I dont want to see all of the specific random titles that don't relate at all to the theme. The worst thing to me is using real actors on cards when it really could just be a factious character on the card. It makes the game a level of strange and not in a good way.
I only know about Upper Deck Entertainment VS SYSTEM (original, early 2000s, with Marvel and DC sets starting with ORIGINS around 2004-2006) ... and seing this Set as my first ever Magic the gathering set... I feel it looks like a very powerful META creating set... if you with already powerful setups in "mixed variant" rules decks. Not even commander knowledge (I normally built standard VS system decks of 60 cards - often 61 to 79,. sometimes close to a 100, but with 4 of a unique card per deck, NEVER tried commander rule... building a DW universe beyond commander custom deck right now on ebay and with 2 booster packs as gifts this christmas)