Why the Debate about Civilizations matters and Why the West is Silent
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ต.ค. 2024
- It is impossible to understand China unless you understand Chinese Civilization. China is a product of it civilizational background. There are many Civilizations and they are crucial to understanding the world. How can we make sense of the Muslim world, or India, or Iran, or Russia, or Africa without understanding the Civilizations that inform and shape them. Yet the West is silent on Civilizations, even for the most part about its own. This provides a powerful clue to how the West sees the world and how it is struggling with the differences in its own midst. This was an online talk given to the Understanding China Conference in Guangzhou 20-22 November 2020.
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As a person who belongs to the Tuareg people who had enjoyed political, cultural, and economical independence for many centuries before the arrival of the French colonial troops in the late 19th century in the Sahara, I can say that the western colonial powers have destroyed many cultures and civilizations and imposed their will on others. However, with the rise of China, this assumed primacy of the west is coming to an end and we will see a world that is embracing cultural and civilizational differences.
As a person who was born and grew up in China and later lived in Europe, people would laugh at me for being brainwashed when I said what I really thought. However, I really don't understand why they don't learn history? Not curious about the truth? Are they unaware of the cruelty of their ancestors, or are they really unwilling to treat everyone fairly with the same standard? Chinese have been taught since childhood that "do not do to others what you do not want others to do to you". I live in the UK, and I really fully understand those who do not trust the mainstream media, because at least the news and reports about China that I have seen are reported with very obvious prejudice, and even many of them are completely false news.It's time for the next generation to learn about history. It's time to know the truth
So true ! Like how Aussies marginalize Aborigines, how the Whites also wipe out the ingenious Red Indians, how the Whites had plundered Asia etc and the list goes on till today ... all for their hunger resources and their OWN benefit at the demise of others ...
China's GDP per capita is equal to or even below those poorest nations in Africa before the reform and opening up in 1978. After 40 years hard work, China is able to not only outperform those most developed in the world but China's innovation can produce some best technologies that no others can produce or at least in a lead position like 5G, Ultra-high vacuum，nuclear power plant, Quantum cryptography etc. etc. Hence, the enormous achievements of Chinese may indicate that African may be able to replicate China's strategy and emerge from nothing to a behemoth especially with the help from China.
@@anonymintheworld9781 That saying isn't followed by white people because they believe that others are not capable of doing on to them what they have done on to others. This has been true for the last couple hundred years so they continue to do it. This is also why they are so scared to loose their top spot as the world hegemon.
I quote Abdourahmane "Tuareg people who had enjoyed political, cultural, and economical independence for many centuries .." : with a life expectancy less than 50 years, in appalling hygienic conditions, and having not brought any... zero , invention or innovation to humanity since many centuries... sad results!
Probably the best western scholar of China!
check out Kishore Mahbubani
th-cam.com/video/v1Nrgw37If0/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=NationalCommitteeonU.S.-ChinaRelations
@@eugenechee3415 Thanks! And I can reccomend this th-cam.com/video/P5uzxV8ub9k/w-d-xo.html
@@andywehre7912 thank you!!
Not even close. Joseph Needham is definitely the best
@@swagpeach9850 Thanks for the hint, will look into him. I of course meant the best western scholar of China today or still liveing. But I´m eager to learn :)
"No victory of arms, or tyranny of alien finance, can long suppress a nation so rich in resources and vitality. The invader will lose funds or patience before the loins of China will lose virility; within a century China will have absorbed and civilized her conquerors, and will have learned all the technique of what transiently bears the name of modern industry; roads and communications will give her unity, economy and thrift will give her funds, and a strong government will give her order and peace." - Will Durant in 1935
Thanks for the quote as I am not familiar with Will Durant.Will have to check his works👍👍
Great wise words indeed.
Will Durant has uncanny foresight!
which of his books is that quote from ? "our oriental heritage" ?
Communications? He already predicted Huawei! :) His predictions had been so accurate, shows that he really knows the Chinese characters, so does Martin!
Dear Martin, I admire your holistic and in-depth knowledge of China! China is the oldest and the only unbroken civilization on this planet. How could even any attempt to understand China without learning her history be legitimate? To understand the Chinese civilization, one book holds the key and that is 'Book of Changes (易经)'. Thank you! Cheers, Sophie
What do you mean by civilization?
@@GlobalDrifter1000 It's a way of life and government that is influenced by ancient Chinese wisdom, such as 'Book of Changes', 'Lun Yu', 'Dao De Jing', etc. It covers all facets of society. (I'm no expert)
@@sophiebao6241 I read the English translation of the book of changes. Hmmm, I will have to think about it. The Dao I have read previously.
@@GlobalDrifter1000 There are also all kinds of interpretations out there. But only read the true translation of the original work. How I understand is that nature has a set of eternal rules, whilst we humans need to change to adapt to our time but must in harmony with these rules. There are always 'Yin' and 'Yang' in all things big or small. Once we understand we all have to die, which is part of nature's rules, we only need to focus on making changes to balance the 'Yin' and 'Yang' in our life. In the end, it's about righteousness, i.e.: Benefiting from the environment but avoid exploiting it; doing business but avoid being greedy; it can serve as a guideline for making decisions. But misinterpretation can turn it into something evil. Remember, this book was created 7,000 years ago at the time written language was unavailable. Be mindful.
@@sophiebao6241 What is the English version and publish by who? Thanks. I am going to buy it.
This is a truthful food for thought
Yes, like a turd.
Hi Martin,
You are a Real Scholar! Amazing!
Thanks.
So well said. Thank you. 🙏
I hope in his upcoming book Martin delves deeply into this subject of white colonialism and its consequences. The both overt and subconscious effects of this 400 year old phenomenon are deeply felt and are an everyday reality in Latin America, and shapes its relationship both with the US and China.
It's pretty difficult to see other civilizations if the curiosity is low and arrogance is high.
I actually see this in non-Western societies too, so it's probably more of a human phenomenon than solely a western matter.
With that said, I think it's particularly harder for the West in general to accept the rise of non-Western countries because no one has any living memories of a time when the west wasn't dominant...despite our history telling otherwise, without living memories, it's harder for more people to reference things.
It's not truly necessary to understand different civilizations, but it doesn't help this dilemma in the West if only a small portion of westerners can see this reality, but the majority doesn't.
That could be a little hard, that's what China and other Asian countries has suffered in these 200 years. No easy way, just learn from others, especially from the stronger ones. Endless of painful lessons for Asians
And western rulers and cultural elites are none too keen on enlightening us any time soon.
"The health of a democratic society may be measured by the quality of functions performed by private citizens ... I know of no country in which there is so little independence of mind and real freedom of discussion as in America."
Alexis de Tocqueville, "Democracy in America"
Spoken like any "frog in any well" would.
I am really fed up with the China bashing by the zombies. Those whose insist that they have the single best system are very regressive by being so 19th century; as if the great wars never happened.
It is really not that complicated. Direct application of the no-free-lunch theorem tells us that what makes a system/algorithm best is heavily context dependent. Given a new context, there is no way to know beforehand which system will fare better. The only way to find out is to put the system to test. Given this conclusion, the best policy in an ever changing environment is to emulate the winners as soon as you spot one. In this sense, different civilizations are not antagonistic existence but each other's insurance policy; that is, provided they find a way to tolerate each other and co-exist more or less peacefully.
The good thing about Western culture and western platforms like TH-cam means that I can say things like TIANAMEN SQUARE MASSACRE without getting abducted
@@jibjub2121
Go write up more extensively. That Tianan Men Massacre narrative has been debunked after new evidences and testimonials by Western witnesses present on site started to surface about 20 years after that date. It has became a rather effective anti China propaganda tool that has been rehashed yearly so as to "poison" people perception on China.
Sad how many people are able to understand what professor is talking about rather than garbages from “main stream media”.
Great speech, Martin.
I agree. Overthrow of colonialism was the most important event of the last century.
Agreed! And the overthrow of neo-colonialism will be just as important in this century.
The rise of China is base on Western technology but not their war monger policy. Many rising nations adapted the US constitution almost verbatim but not their practice. Take for instant the phrase, Of the People, By the People and For the People which China practice to the letter. That's why China's economic rise is base on.
No you are wrong
China 🇨🇳 base on itself not on you west
In fact you west base on China 🇨🇳 inventions check the history book
Your scholastic talent has elucidated the complex problems of western governments and media ignorance about China and Asian civilizations. The persistence of racial tensions arises out of their imperial superiority complex especially among the populist movement revealed the white extremist's overtones. God has chosen you to be the man of the hour to help us grapple with upheaval changes and pivot of power shifting ttoward China. The Chinese civilization doesn't build their influence based on military power like the US. Something most western nation-States are not used to as you had previously discussed. Thank you for helping us to grasp the big picture.
As an ethnic Chinese from SEA, I have been wondering how could western scholars( not Martin Jacques) with high IQ and called themselves China watcher, talk about China in such a way that is quite superficial? Then I understand, many of them have little choice. Politics- correctness dominates US and the west in many ways. If u are sympathetic towards China or be a pragmatic China watcher in the West ,you can’t even make a decent livelihood as no one will buy what u said. How could those scholars or analysts make a living then?Martin may be a few exception, where his books on China are well received, but mainly in Asian circles. I don’t know whether his books sold well in the Western Hemisphere.
There are a lot of academics who understand the topic without requiring money from book sales. Also, his book was a bestseller across the west.
@@jibjub2121 and then there are those who think they understand.
Good analysis. The west sees the world in terms of nation states and political systems. Asians on the other hand tend to see it in terms of civilization and its culture. That's why westerners struggle with understanding many things in the non-western world, the most important being how and why some Asian countries govern themselves in the way they do.
"Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith."
- A. de Tocqueville
This is a typical western myth. Unless by faith you include Confucianism, and Daoism.
@@stephenyang2844 certainly the person who has contemplated the wonders of the Tao Te Ching is closer to understanding his or her existence with respect to the cosmic order. Lao Tzu said, for example:
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage."
The east has learn A LOT from the west, thats why we could over come our past and go forward with new ideas and view.
The origins of Western exceptionalism lie in its Gothic psychosis.
This psychosis arose as the Goths (the Germanic tribes) conquered Rome and the Western Roman empire from the 5th century, and entered into competition with the surviving Roman empire with its capital continuing in Constantinople.
The Gothic psychosis developed in their interaction with the Roman Empire and the Catholic Church that had their centres in the region of the Bosphorus since the end of the 3rd century.
Since Diocletian the senior Roman emperor if there were two, or the sole emperor, had his capital in this region of the Bosphorus between Europe and Asia.
Likewise, every Ecumenical Council of the Catholic Church was held in this region or a neighbouring region subject to it directly.
The Goths thus held a city of Rome and a Bishop of Rome that were chiefs in honour but not in actual power.
The Gothic psychosis is that by taking control of Rome and the West they had inherited the Roman empire and the Catholic Church and were blessed by Providence to have this preeminence.
It was false, of course, a fantasy.
The Roman empire and the Catholic Church had their practical centres in the East, and continued there.
Thus, the psychosis of the Goths involves lying about history, covering it up, and pretending the other doesn't exist, or trying to take control of the modern heirs of those Eastern Romans in the hope that this will finally prove they are the true heirs of Rome, Greece and Christianity.
Unfortunately, while they have for the time being absorbed Greece and other Eastern European states, they cannot subdue Russia.
Russia is a reminder to the West that its claims about itself are delusions.
The Western Goths convince themselves that they are meant to rule the whole world and all religion, and all that remains is which Gothic tribe will be the leader.
Will it be the Eastern Franks (the Germans), or the Western Franks (the French), or the Anglo-Franks (the English)?
This psychosis ensures that the West does not act in its own best interests, but is under the false belief that Providence has given it the world.
The West cannot envisage a win win relationship with other civilizations. It must destroy all, because it is meant to rule all.
It is a lie built on lies. A madness for mad barbarians.
The Goths never took the Roman Empire, nor did they gain control over the Orthodox Catholic Church.
It is time to wake up from this and other delusions.
I've always had suspicions along these lines. Do you have a few sources I can check out? It's very uncanny how something this fundamental to a culture(s) psyche can be so absent from mainstream conciousness. Even in the academia! I've studied history and political science in university and never once did this issue come up as a subject or perspective! As if we're supposed to believe that the Romans made absolutely no distinction between themselves and Northern Barbarians, and were expecting to be raped, pillaged and conquered by them eventually! If this isn't quite the case, then there's a huge missing chunk of the puzzle here! It would mean that the West's self perception and historical narrative is entirely invalid and delusional!
Fun theory, but complete nonsense. Do you have any fact to back up this term "gpthic psychosis" that you clearly just made up?
Absolutely spot on.
This jives with my thoughts on Western Psychosis as well. I believe you are on to something profound here. I too ask if you have read anything on this subject? Not to challenge, but to better educate myself. Thank you for your thoughts, I am better for having read them.
The world need a million more Martin Jacques.
There is another English Professor. He's John Ross.
@Merry Christmas Wot? Your father is dead? I don't need to know.
@Merry Christmas Read between the lines.
all my respect! !!
Truth! Martin Jacques has been speaking it for a long time.
Thanks for an enlightening and beautiful speech.
Wonderfully put together
Best talk I have seen since a long time. Bravo!!!
Martin Jacques brilliant as always.
respect
Great speech! Objective, analytical and honest; unlike most comments from the west!
A real knowledgeable scholar with an insightful understanding of Chinese history and culture in the west.
Hi, thanks for the video. it is so valuable information for me.
Would you please make the video with a louder volume? I have adjust my laptop volume to the max ...
Thanks professor.
Respect!
Martin Jacques IS GREAT!
Every system has its ups and downs. It is about how correction happen. There need to be strong leaders to step forward to execute course correction. China was there before.
Sadly, there isn't such a leader in the US. I doubt JB nor KH would step up to be such a leader. I heard Fox news hosts saying threatening words that if US does not act now to stop China, their children would have to learn Chinese.
Subtitle please.
A profound talk by an excellent educator. Thank you for your insights Martin. 👍💖
Extremely knowledgeable lecture.
A brilliant✨✨ scholar !! 👍👍
Thank you professor.
Western politicians and businessmen should have a fraction of your insight and perspective, @Jacques.
It is “unusual” seeing Mr. Jacques reading a prewritten script in vlog.
always worth listening to, not sure extending respect to religious law and custom is a good idea. if you come to live in france, be prepared to live as the french do.
People have to remember that western countries didn't become rich because of democracy and freedom of speech but rather colonisation of other countries for over 100 years or longer. Colonisation comes with lootings and stealing of resources and enslavement of their subjects which had contributed greatly to their wealth.
Another factor was the west had the edge and upper hand because they were the producers and manufacturers of the First Industrial Revolution, in which lots of the raw materials were also gotten from their colonies.
So to those people who still think China couldn't prosper further and sustain their wealth without western style democracy and freedom, you're totally ignorant of history and facts.
Thx Martin!
You option is very inspiring which enlightened my puzzle for decades. Another question puzzled me is why China civilization did not create science system similar as what has been ruling the entire world now? I don’t believe it is because China people’s intelligence is poorer than western people’s.
You should go read up about the famous British scientist and academia who asked the same question, and who decided to travel to China to investigate for himself about a century back. He ended up staying engaged for several decades (in fact until his death, and his life work was eventually completed by his students) to produce a multivolumes catalogue of Chinese Scientifc and Engineering knowhow since ancient times.
Another British academia, the famous Mathematician and Philosopher, Bertrand Russell, lived and taught at Peking University around 1920?... He made many profound observations about China and Chinese civilization.
Brilliant objective observations and analysis on China. Martin Jacques is the best, more people should be listening to him.
Simply replacing the word "westerns" with "whites".
非常好的分析和反思。欧洲有这样的思想家文明就不会衰败
我問題是有幾個？
欧洲 美国没有文化和文明
种族灭绝和抢劫别人的土地是欧洲文明吗？ 也许是吧
每个国家和时代都有清醒和睿智的人，问题是欧美的政客和决策者们不听啊，肉食者鄙。Martin教授最高赞的视频是10年前那个TED演讲，但那时候没人信他。
THANK YOU VERY MUCH
Bravo good sir bravo. Galileo would be proud. A journey of life and the honesty of truth. The prophets are never recognized in their own time.. ..
Galileo?????
Many thanks.
Recognised the difference and be respectful. No one type of ideology is the best. One have no right to force and change other people belief and way of life. Probably only through persuasion and influence.
Dr. Jacques, why should the Western society's adaptation to a world where they are less dominant and their civilization the unspoken default be so painful? Is it because of hubris? Why did such unfounded hubris remain unchallenged in western discourse for so long? Is it economic? Was it really the plan all along for the west to remain on top of the value chain forever? What kind of a culture could produce such an embarrassing and infantile plan? It really clashes with the impression of the West I learned from my Canadian textbooks. The Westphalian treaty signing, the inalienable rights espousing, the United Nations establishing west. It's shocking how there's actually so many unresolved philosophical contradictions in western society that are only now bubbling to the surface in very ugly ways.
China is especially a country where people are so shaped by history, where history are diligently recorded that can traced back more than 2,000 years, longer if not for Qin's burning of all books, most Chinese people are familiar with stories and teaching from the past, it's a great treasure troves of human experiences that we can all learn to teach one how to behave, raise a family, business or a government administration. I sometimes feel sorry for people that can not read Chinese text, they miss out a lot of wisdom that can help them in their life's!
You are wrong
China 🇨🇳 have book 📚
Your country no books 📚 just fake history and news about China 🇨🇳
I learn a lot from your short but powerful presentation.
No justice and never except .peace is purely an idiom .
Morning professor. I burnt the bookstore downstairs my apartment because I cannot find your book there. Am I doing right? I believe so.
I hope you didn't burn yourself.
The rise of the Western Civilization State is on it's way. We've been ahead in majority of the aspects for quite a while now but not so much as of present. But radical change is happening and I hope we can do this without ripping ourselves apart.
A powerful presentation.
Perfect analysis
Excellent article!
Very well stated
true, unless Cilivizations is a topic that has been deliberately avoided
Not a social system is perfect which apples to both western and eastern. After the failure of original socialism before 1978, China learned from western that free market is a way to motivate the individual for economic development with so-called socialism with China characteristics and it keeps adjusting itself when heading to the unforeseeable problems. That is why China keeps growing. However western system refuses to learn from China’s experience. It’s system was kidnapped by the financial capital which only benefits to minority of rich people. The majority of people can’t share the profit from capital. You can’t believe in USA there is no public health system which is the basic need for the majority. The lowest salary is only $7 for the last 20 years. Unfairness is the fundamental problem which leads to be lit by Trump’s incitement. Is it fully Trump’s fault? Absolute Not. It is the fault of the social system which refuses to learn and adjust itself to share the capital profit with the majority. Political parts only fight each other for their own benefit to get the power and fool their people in name of democracy and constitution which are just poorly defined concept. How can a government with inconsistent policy and short term view to compete with a government keeping learning and adjustment which share the profit with majority people? Who really cares about the politics and so-called free speech if they are satisfied in their daily life? People want to speak out only if they are not satisfied with their life.
Jacques should also mentions that the hierarchy of races is very alive in China. It was an empire as well.
Moreover, the passage about free speech right at the end underlines Jacques does believe in civilisation, but just when it suits him. Free speech belongs to Western civilisation, and multiculturalism should not undermine the values ordering those societies, just as the Western values should not undermines China or other civilisation.
You are reading good and they are true
What this statement fails to address is the advantages of the western tradition whose values uphold the rights of the individual the powerless, and even those that work against the status quo where there activities are not considered a crime. It also marginalises the role of scientific rationality in improving the living standards and life expectancy of everyone. Luckily as an atheist the Chinese do value scientific rationality and have even made attempts to reform Chinese traditional medicine.
Given the civilisations that existed in the past, is it wise to abandon those aspects of western culture present since the Magna Cartagena, in favour of a society that would embrace scientific ignorance and exploitation of the vulnerable.
👍
I wonder how he views Jacques Barzun seminal work, "From Dawn to Decadence " as it relates to his own worldview?
Unique!
I just discovered this man like a Half Hour ago. The most Honest White Man living today.
I think you need a better microphone xD
Superb!
Thanks Martin.
Pardon a complete outsider on "Civilization"; guessing: inferring "maintenance of Cultural-Coherence"? And, to a much lesser extent, "Social-Cohesion"?
western dog
Western has top professors,while managed by businessmen.
TL;DW: Do not trust the 'empire' and colonizers.
Free speech is free speech! That means NO restrictions just because somebody might feel hurt! And those that can't live in a society with free speech can move to a society more amenable to them! They are NOT forced to live in a society that have rules they do not like! And the same goes for this old buffoon!
Ezekiel had a prophecies after Babylon comming to Jerusalem who have the prophecy to Gog ma Gog after rupture.
Chinese civilisation is particularly hard for Western culture to understand because the long existing secular and irreligious cultural background of the former was never established by the latter until 1905 in France (Which consists only a small fraction in the English-dominated Western civilisation). The French spent 115 years fighting for their secular society and yet to be successful, how could the West possibly understand China with their values and knowledge lagging so far behind?
do you believe what you said?
Martin, good try but you are wasting your time.
To the white peoples is a waste of time, To the 90% of the world population is valuable information for a better world. America and her stooge allies are evil want to dominate the world. CHINA is the saviour of the World from the evil countries.
china with american money india with our money
How much CCP pays you for spewing haterd
Learn from history, I wish China and its people as a whole will learn about humility, and the danger of pride. Continue to be inclusive to others, especially the poor nations. From now on, being one of the largest and powerful nation will also make herself more responsible for others, be it as a pioneering forces in science and technology, explorations and trade negotiations.
Whatever happened to China 2000 years ago is no longer important; but to look forward. What China and Chinese people as a whole does to the world will be judged by what they do to themselves and others from now on.
Egypt forever
just imagine
The self image and white washed history constructed Post WWII, upgraded and made even more delusional Post Cold War is WAY too attraktive to be questioned!! Martin, your scholarship is up against psychology and precious religion-like faith. As European history shows, such faith and feelings do not give up without great pain and suffering IN EUROPE. I dearly hope that this time it ll be different.
Discrimination, jealousy, fear can describe the current western world.
I believe every action has its consequences, the sins committed by the Christian elites will manifest over time.
china 😭🙏
😭
mr jacques is a learned and wise man, but he put a foot wrong when he supported suppression of free speech in france. speech must be free, for it is the only tool ordinary people have against oppressive governments. islam is not the ruling ideology in france, and i think humanity will have a better chance to survive if appeal to religious rules never surpasses the law of reason.
Why do you think that speech must be free?
So it was ok for Hitler to spout what he did?
Presumably you won't mind if I am rude and insulting to you.....free speech
@@SuperMikado282 He just told you, stooopid. The part about tool against oppressive governments... Hitler included. Gawwd are you stoooopid or what?
a CCP toadie, always nice to see those.
Lord Haw Haw
Colonial sympathizer. And gutless too that you had to speak in riddles. So transparent!
@@賴志偉-d7h learn manners. You are addressing your elder.
american money
"The denigration of China has been bordering on the innate" - makes me think. "The denigration of the West in China..." should be included in the discussion, or not?
I’ve never agreed so much with a white dude
👍