THE FRENCH MANAGEMENT STYLE (French Business Culture // Work in France)
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Working in France as a foreigner means understanding the French management style! To work in France and to succeed in France means adapting to it too :) In this video, I share the good, the bad and the ugly of having a French boss!
So I hope this gives you fascinating insights into the French business culture, working with French colleagues and the French business mindset. There are even some French business etiquette tips in there! Working with the French and working effectively with your French colleagues is a skill like any other.
Have you had any experience with the business culture in France or working with the French? Let me know down below!!
WATCH NEXT: My other videos on the French Workplace Culture:
FRENCH BUSINESS CULTURE: Major Culture Shocks! • FRENCH BUSINESS CULTUR...
10 Tips For Working With French Colleagues | The French workplace: • 10 Tips For Working Wi...
FRENCH WORK BENEFITS | France working hours, paid leave & more! • FRENCH WORK BENEFITS |...
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Loved this video ! As a French person, I find it extremely interesting that you listed the « distance » thing as bad, especially when it comes to the fact that French managers tend not to over share bits about their personal life. In fact, I tend to view it as positive, because they expect the same from you and therefore cannot judge you based on your personal life. I view it as a form of « protection » : my manager’s impression of me is based solely on my abilities and performances as an employee and I am not expected to invest more than this in my work ! I would say that, in France, work is just work after all and it’s only one component of your life, not the main one :)
I agree with you. Also, for another reason. I worked in a company where my manager liked being friends with employees and going to take some beers after work with them. The result of that is lot of favoritism was happening in this company, and people trying to be friend with this guy. I had a moment when I had to force myself to go for a drink with them because company strategy decision were taken during this after work party. I got tired of this, the situation in this company was too toxic and based around friendship.
So to me, if you are a manager, you have to act like one.
Ruysuka definitely ! I think favoritism based on friendship is a real problem and many people - both managers and employees - seem to have an issue understanding what is ok and what is not !
As a general rule of thumb I would say it is better not to mix work and private life, so that your private life is respected by people at your work and vice versa !
@@NotEvenFrench I don't want to know anything of the sad lives of my bosses. Fuck them.
I totally see your point and I agree. Generally speaking, I believe there should be clear boudaries between friendship and working together, because in my experience nothing good come from that: someone choosen to do projects over someone else just because he is “nicer”, regardless of the skills, for example. We can’t all be friends, does it mean you should choose only your closest friends to be part of a project? What about meritocracy? What about giving a chance regardless of the relationship you have with someone? I’m absolutely sure I would not act like that if I was a boss, because it is not fair. I don’t do that even as an employee when I get to choose who to work with. I care about skills and if someone is not a total dick, I don’t let personal preferences take the control.
@@Ruysuka My manager told me in the past he was friend with a guy because they were in the same team at work. This guy became manager of the team and instantly start to put a lot of distance between them (for exemple he stoped coming to the pub with them) and veryone thought it was normal and kind of a duty to keep the partiality. Later some conflicts happened and he could treat it as he had to, which he wouldn't have been able to do if he kept a friendly relationship.
You nailed it!
When you are starting a new job under French management, you’ll see mostly the good.
After 3,5,10 years, the ugly weights like a ton on your shoulders. It’s something that hurts every second.
Because management cannot openly explains you that all the unfairness you experience lies in a single word « nepotism », they’ll need to fabricate reasons, right?
This very simple reasoning explains a lot of the moral harassment which is such a mainstream thing in many French companies. My experience is more from big corporate companies, but my friends in smaller companies gave me somilzr feedbacks.
As a French I can confirm that this is very very accurate!
Omg just after watching this video I had an HOUR LONG meeting with my boss and his boss about a very simple power point where they over-analyzed every use of word and capital letters Oo
Are you live in France?
You hit nail right on the head. I work for a French company and it’s difficult working for a French manager. No matter how good you performed there’s always a but at the end.
Hi Rosie, I'm American and I'm pretty sure I've watched all your videos. For some reason I find them super comforting and relatable. Keep doing what you're doing. I love your content!
Rosie is very perceptive and able to see patterns. She's excellent at making sense out of confusion, and conveys her message in a way that is succinct. She is adorable and charming, too, so that makes us want to listen to her.
I’m French working abroad (UK) and maybe it has nothing to do with being french and it’s just personality since I’m an introvert but I really am not into the whole socializing after work or on weekend and Christmas etc.. , at all. Every time I saw a job opportunity advertising how the company was great at social events... I ran in the other direction and the thing is I really don’t understand this need and pressure of constantly doing things with your colleagues that you might not appreciate anyway or have nothing in common with. It just seem so fake and forced. Why not let people be friends eventually on their own timeframe if they actually feel like it after spending some time together? There’s something I must be missing cause apparently a lot of people enjoy it ? Or are they faking it or just doing it cause it’s the norm culturally I wonder? Anyone feeling the same here or is it just a weird French or ‘me ‘ thing?
I agree with you. I'm Brazilian, but I don't like this "forced" socialization. I mean, now for example, I don't like my job colleagues, but if I don't go to those meetings after work, they'll call me snob and so on.
Carla the Cosmic Traveller thanks for your reply :) exactly can we still have a life after work or is it always extended world ?? ugh sorry to hear it’s happening in France too. I guess it’s a big company thing as well like let’s have an identity oh genius idea ‘ let’s all pretend we’re a big family ‘ kind of thing lol, no thank you. Seems to make some happy though so I guess to each their own but happy to hear I’m not completely alone in this xD
Grupo Arallec'h yeah peer pressure always,. Hang in there you’re def not alone!:)
Hi! In the US we do it as a part of team building activity to build trust and connections between colleagues in the hope it will make work life run more smoothly. Considering we spent alot of our time off also working it made it easier when you could just text your coworker on the weekend about a project because you already has that relationship. Also the activities are meant to be an incentive and bring positive outlook on the company to show that they care about the employees and are financially secure enough to have means to provide such events.
When I worked in Denmark, I didn't understand these social work events. Especially since there were quite a few of them. One day someone explained simply that when people genuinely get to know each other and care for one another, they have a tendency to want to sort of impress people they are close to and be their best self by doing well.
Thank you for a great perspective on French management. In Canada, employees review the management too......360 feedback. VP’s are held accountable to their annual surveys which go to ALL their employees. Employees have access to many job opportunities so managers have to be careful or they might lose them and of course vice versa. It’s fast paced. Building relationships is very important and knowing how to have Humility is the name of the game. Two-way communication is vital. Being open, progressive and innovative is necessary because it’s very easy to be replaced: employee or manager. It’s 2020!!!
French and agree. Having worked in various cultural and design, and creative fields. There is this ilitism, this seek of perfectionism that can lead sometimes to endless discussions, philosophical discussions, and the inner will sometimes of people who want to change the entire world to their own likings. There is this idea in a certain France of universalism, and how things should be.
BUT, there are other sides of france. The countryside, entrepreneurs , peasants, technical workers, vendors have a more efficient and productive way to looks at things. Crafters, musicians, actors have look at things more emotionally and would easily start working with friends or become friend while working.
French people are mainly by latin cultures influenced.. We speak a lot, to express feelings, and meetings often last for long time, with the 5 last minutes of practical decisions to be taken at.. "ok, so we've heard everyone, now we have 5minutes left before lunch, who does what and when is next meeting sheduled ?"..
Nice analysis you are 100% right, even if people have to take in considerations general differences between even branches of activities and regional cultures. To simplify:
- people from north are more Flemish
- people from east are more German (not very open minded, not very expressive, but right on time, and means based-on management)
- people from west are more thinking like Celtic people from Ireland or Wales (personal and professional lives are close to each others, money is more taboo, and people have strong characters, hard to convince but appriciate loyalty)
- people from south are Latin (you can arrive more or less 15minutes after an appointment hour, people are very expressives, more distant to their jobs, they are more flighty)
Of course those are generalities, only to give trends and keys to understand people's behaviours. In each behaviours influences there are advantages or constrains, just things you have to know to be prepared to deal with ! It doesn't take in consideration the character of people you will meet.
I think you really got it when it comes to french management, so congratulations! As a french person, it took me a lot of time to understand some thing about french management haha
You are wonderful! I am originally French but live and work abroad, and your videos hit the nail on the head. You really capture the essence of French society and culture. Well done!
I loved the video. But at 8:39 converging and diverging mismatch. 😌😌
Of course! I did. But I have been living in France for 3 years and unintentionally, I am getting a habit of complaining all the time. Haha
Great video, very informative, (which will help me a great deal when I move to France). BTW - LOVE the hair and glasses, and the shirt.
tres intéressant comme d'habitude. J'adore
It's perfect to me that professional and private lives go in different rails. If someone wants to disclose a personal thing, he/she will.
I can't stand lack of clarity, direction and connection 😂 I wouldn't last
@@NotEvenFrench I'm from NZ though 😂 give it to me direct or don't even bother lol
I had an interesting experience in a French startup where it was expected to tutoyer the manager and to ask questions to clarify. This extended to the team, that everyone was there to help, and asking questions was encouraged. But I often felt that they didn't mean any of it and they would often tell me things that weren't true and I was just supposed to understand the implicit meaning of telling one thing and promoting a certain atmosphere and doing something completely different. Very tough and I have learned a lot since then. I appreciated this video, and I think a really interesting subject to talk about is how French HR departments manage foreign employees. I definitely think they are a huge part of why employees succeed or fail within a French company.
Hey ! I really liked your video. As a foreigner who lived, studied and worked in the US and who's now working in France, I agree with everything except the "distant" part. Having also worked for a big french corporation which is also listed in CAC 40, I've never felt that there was a distance between my manager and I. To my surprise, I was told on day one to not use the word "vous" at all. Everyone is tutoyé, from the intern all the way to the CFO (I worked in the finance department). I also used to grab lunch with my manager and her boss, who happens to be the director of investments, along with all the other managers/directors up to the CFO and we all talk about our respective lives. It was also quick for my manager to open up to me about her personal life. As she travels a lot for fun, she's always eager to show us (her team) pictures about her trips and talk to us about the countries she's visited. I might have worked for an atypical french company, I guess!
It seems you have a pretty good analysis skill about your past life in France, Rosie! And it doesn’t block you from getting things done at the same time... ! Le meilleur des deux mondes 😀
il n'y a pas de "deux mondes", get it right darling... just saying
I love your look in this video! 😍
A lot of similarities with Japanese management styles, which substantiate the facts that the French people (to me at least) have special interests in the Japanese cultures and the strong links between our two countries
I agree. It's how I explain french work system to the kiwis actually. Really similar except that we have less hours at work. But doesn't change the fact that we have to be over productive with really short time given. A lot of depressed employees in France too sadly. Sometimes (pretty often now) not even paid for overwork hours. French system is not a dream, I choose to live in NZ permanently because of that.
The food culture is also a great link with Japan^^
@@naomil.888 how true ! I have a friend in Paris who works long hours every day just like the Japanese. The difference is that the French have long paid annual leave which they do take whereas the Japanese...
Coffee Crash 9
I agree
Love this video! I'm from South Africa and working in IT department. I was talking to my friend few days back saying, I don't know if I'm a doing a good job or not ( I have been in that company for almost a year) I never received any feedback from my manager until one day I messed up, he came running to me pointing every details out. Yes, I agree, you don't get any feedback until you mess up lol
And for the clarity part, oh my goodness! it used to be one of my biggest challenges but now I'm used to it, I guess I can now read thier minds
your work in South Africa or in France ?
This was excellent!
Excellent points as usual Rosie, you're a pleasure to watch! Bisous de Paris 😉
I so appreciated these insights! Also Rosie, as a designer I wanted to tell you just how killer your website and Instagram are. Just applause all around for both; great job and my dear you are going to go far. As far as you choose basically! Cheers from Vancouver CA. :)
Have lived in France for 43 years. Have never had a French boss. J'ai compris après 6 mois ici! Non merci! Have always worked for myself.
I think that most of this analysis pertains to a single company and to corporate management rather than the French management situation as a whole. In my 25 years of management consulting, in all regions of France, in Germany, the UK, Belgium, Spain, a few other European countries, also in the US, in industry, tech companies and services, Blue Chips and PME... my missions have always been to make things happen, to increase performance and reduce scrap, to merge or split entities... etc.
At headquarters, the management is most often disconnected from the ground level reality. And, the skill level of the grandes écoles graduates is typically quite low, especially when they come out of ESSEC, Science Po and ENA. They have no practical skill and have never held a ground level job.
This is exactly the same for all corporate headquarters, whichever country you go, the US UK and Germany as well. Managers don't have the beginning of an idea of how to carry out the tasks and activities they are supposed to lead. Their technical skills are limited to crunching numbers and their creativity manifests only in their Powerpoint presentations. They talk a lot to hide what they don't know.
On the other hand, in the world of PME, PMI and small business in general, it is the exact opposite. Managers have a sense of reality.... They also engage in all possible styles of management.
It would be too long to dwell on all that here. but in my perception, this would be an accurate way to start the analysis of French management.
Brava - great video.
Interested to look at this. I am part of a team in the UK with a couple of French co-workers so curious to see the difference.
In the luxury business, LVMH and its French competitors rule, they rule the luxury industry worldwide.
That means, in the luxury business, with its qualities and flaws, the French way of doing business is far more efficient than any way around the world.
If any Anglo-Saxon (or not) company want to succeed they have the choice either clone the French way or be taken over by one of the French companies. Most can't clone so they limp forward for a while and eventually get absorbed.
Any product built by LVMH has to be excellent, perfect, flawless, that is the rule, no room for even insignificant imperfection.
The management style at LVMH is linked to that.
LVMH founder Bernard Arnault came out (ranked first) from the most insanely selective engineering school in France ecole polytechnique, ever since childhood, absolute excellence never left this man's mind, he is also a very very fine and humble guy.
for those who speak French:
th-cam.com/video/cbyYo5N9-a4/w-d-xo.html
There are many more than 5 grande Ecoles in France, there are many dozens in fact, beyond the second-best there is a never-ending fluctuating hierarchy, many of their alumnis do have a clannish attitude, there are many many competing old boy networks in France.
Completely agree with everything you said.
Yes i agree in France our manager tend to be asshole, but i think it comes more from our system of "grande écoles" rather than our educationnal system in general.
I agree with the rest of your point regarding the Grandes Ecoles (the nepotism, how nonsensical it is to put your diploma forward when you've got a full career behind you, etc) but they're definitely not just as easy as university. Merely entering them is hard as they only take a very limited amount of students in, which is why there are competitive exams. I knew someone in my prepa who consistently had the lowest marks in his class, dropped out, and went on to get the highest grades as a university student.
Prépas are hard, but the Grande Ecoles that follow them ? Not more than good universities. But it is not the point. The point is : your whole career shouldnt be based on your sole academic success. First, because Prépas are harder for people coming from low social classes. For various reasons (cutural, economical, psychological), University is often their only choice left. Then, because you may be a "late bloomer", but unfortunately youll never have your chance in the company, failing miserably at spotting all the talents it harbours. And finally because Prépas and Grandes Ecoles always produce the same kinds of profiles, and that lack of diversity may explain some of the struggles french companies face in a fast changing environment.
The point on the Grandes écoles is spot on. Always funny to read about someone in his 50s or even retired described, first and foremost, as a graduate of École polytechnique or École normale supérieure.
I’m from New Zealand and I have a friend in France who’s half Maori and half French who came to my school for half the year. Cool getting to know what you guys are like
Love this😊🗼
Hello, thanks again for this wonderful video. Could you please tell me what is the background music in your video "12 Common Mistakes French Speakers Make in English"? I love it, thanks a lot.
Really liked your video, make me slightly anxious! I work for a French company in the UK but there is a possibility to me moving to France.
Lol even products have the "quart d'heure de politesse" (j'adore tes vidéo et savoir comment se passe les choses autres qu'en France merci d'avoir créé cette chaîne 😊)
I’ve been waiting for this video! I don’t work in a totally corporate environment (thank god!) but can definitely see some flavours of my experience in a french company 😽
"Hello and welcome back to my channel". I miss you. Glad to see you pop up on occasion & hope you're doing well.
@@chloe7288 Probably best to not pry into the _why_ . It's likely personal. We should just be thankful she's still around & comments sometimes.
I didn’t realize they were still doing sprints! I thought you had mentioned previously they were stopping... but, I am in my last term of grad school (MS-HRM) this January, so it will not be a good time for me to begin studying a new language.. but I would like to do this in the late spring/early summer... wonder if they will have a new cycle around that time.
Anyway, xoxo really enjoy your videos even though I have no plans to ever live in France, etc. :-) your just very relatable and I really appreciate your perspective.
Spot on
thanks alot!
Indeed the French management has lots to learn from you Rosie . Well done for this keen video . However I preferred the last part ( ugly ) ,a bit disagree with the first part although, especially "the HEC part" which you clearly and objectively explained what is all about and by some ways made me laugh. Great stuff !
Bon d'accord, je m'abonne ! ... et en plus j'ai mis un gros pouce bleu !
Would lingoda work for me if I'm in the united states? I have a full time job and I'm afraid that the time gap would not work!
Thank you!
I find your points very accurate, esp. from my experience learning French.
the natives in our leaning group always, always point out the wrong things in our exercises
meanwhile, my English learning is pretty relaxed and sometimes I even get encouragements (crazy right?), the English natives often just point out the things that stick out, while the French point out everything
they have no method, they do everything en masse, they act like robots
@@JohnZaabi That's... that's just a harsher and less fair way to say the same thing ?
@@Kidomaru222 more truthfull, why "less fair" she described a nightmare, people with no sense of graditute, direction or satisfaction that pour of their angry shite on poor dependant employees, they sound horrendous
@@JohnZaabi I have to agree. I hate authoritarian french management style. I understand the potential problems of a too close proximity between managers and employees, but for christ sake ! we are not on earth to suffer ! always, distant, bloody serious and grumpy. Being nice doesnt mean being weak, it doesnt necessarily undermine your authority.
@@24lascaux they are always finding fault with everything as well, it's like critique has become their raison d'etre. It's sad, French people are kind of sad, morose individuals, gimme a break!
What about start-ups and modern companies? Do you find the younger generation to be very similar?
Heya! I have a question for you - I am an Anglo Canadian who learned how to speak French in Quebec (French part of Canada, mon niveau is intermediate but I am not too worried about that at the moment. I was hoping to pick your brain because I have actually been living in Australia for the last two years and have tattoos and a Septum piercing and work for the State Government here. I realize that Australia is very accepting when it comes to appearances in the work place ( peircings, tattoos, crazy hair colours). I am looking into leaving Aus to try France and your videos have been really helpful as far as what to expect but sounds like they are very conservative in appearances and that getting a good job might be hard with my "accessories" - thoughts or advice?! Cheeers
To be honest, tattoo and piercings will close any possibilities for you in getting a vast numbers of jobs in France. Then again depends what sort of job you are looking for.
Please, make similar videos about New Zealand. ;)
Сергей Комаров
Thank you - I too keep hoping Rosie will soon realize some subscribers are watching her because we find New Zealand and its people fascinating and hope she will share NZ with her audience!
France is interesting; New Zealand more so! Thank you!
Your “ugly” point #1 was one of the reasons I left France - despite my apprenticeship at L’Oréal, the beauty marketing jobs in Paris were only for Grandes Écoles alumni and it was even harder during the GFC. So I packed my bags and went to London and then Sydney, where I’m enjoying a successful career as a beauty marketeer... partly thanks to the French taxpayers who subsided my 5 years of higher education *sigh*
thx I will have a presentation about this topic n 1-2 hours lets see how it goes.
Greetings from germany
Oh man I feel you on the bad points, the inefficiency sometimes drives me nuts. What we cover in two weeks of ‘formation’ here could easily be done in a single meeting back in Auckland.
@Doffy Rob i think they mean that it takes too long to make a decision to then start working only to find out they want to overhaul it as opposed to English countries where we follow a quota and if things are to be changed its done timely.
@Doffy Rob I definitely have not been here long enough to comment on productivity, nor do I really work in the right field (education). But so far with the admin and communication style at work, it feels like the wheels turn a lot slower and people talk a lot without saying much.
Yes. In France, we accept the Hierarchy. Your boss is your boss. What he tells you to do, you do. That's great. Because he is responsible. Not you :P.
About personnal life, yeah do not expect to talk about anything personnal with your colleague until a long time. For example, I work in my company since nearly a year and a half now. We have an awesome team, with great coworkers, nices bosses, efficient work and organization. Yet, I never spoke about my personnal life or their personnal life in all that time. Because we don't do that.
Piece of advice : If you start speaking about personnal affairs, speak about yours first. Do not ask anything to the other person you're talking with. It's very rude. It's up to her to make the first move. And even if she starts speaking about personnal subjects, stay on topic when you ask stuff. That's not because she spoke about her little brother that she want to share about her mom. And thats' not because she speaks about one personnal stuff, that she is now your best friend, and want to speak about a bunch of all new stuffs.
In France being polite is NOT speaking about everything, chitchating, and sharing your life with everybody. We keep a low profile with unknown. There is places meant to meet new peoples and they are called bars and pubs ;).
And about the good feedback on your work : you'll get some when your work will be perfect. Because then there will be nothing to improve. But as nothing is perfect ... You know where it goes.
You don't get any positive feed back, but people you work with will appreciate your competence so they will be more and more happy to be in your team. You will also feel respect from them the way they talk to you and the way they talk about you in your back.
A good reputation is better than anything.
Too bad that Lingoda only covers A1 to B2. They have business English, but not business French. I want to elevate my french after living here 12 years. Any tips on how to do that?
So true! I have a French manager in an English financial organisation and find it challenging to work with the guy! Interested to pick up some tips for managing him and the situation, he is demanding and often feels he pushes things to achieve something that against common sense..? Also swears a lot! Yes, he likes to be challenged and slows things down but complains that we don’t deliver. Any idea how to react to this?
Thank you! :)
As a French person that studied in university, business majors kinda scare me. There's a lot of not that friendly competition between grandes écoles students and university students, maybe you've heard of it
It's such a shame diplomas are more valued than real skills in France... I struggled for 2 years to find a job in my field, I knew I was capable, I was willing to prove it to the company before employment, but everybody turned me down didn't even want to meet me, just because I didn't have the diploma they were looking for.. uhr. Eventually I changed field, and learned web developpment so I could find a job, which I did, but only because I knew someone in a tech company. That's insane. French people only work around grandes ecoles diplomas and connection.
True. That is why France is behind now. Only relying on LVMH and tourism as drivers of the economy. Not a smart move. I'm French I've worked in North America came back to France worked in a French small company with American like mindset then was bought by a big French group, burned out. I think I'm gonna have to leave France for good. Jobs that pay 1500€ a month for 40 hours a week in a toxic corporate environment no thanks
8:39 You mixed converging and diverging, how ? XD
Because being able to critic is very much valued in France, the meetings can be seen as opportunities to stand out. I really think that's why we have so many and that they are so long. But, I can't stand it either and when I'm the one who organises the meeting, I really like to just move on and take decisions quickly.
I've worked in a Chinese company for two years. There were hours-long meetings several times a week. You could not say a thing, had t sat trough and listen to your manager. If you tried to point out something or suggest something… the manager would get really upset. It was useless meetings where no interesting topics were discussed and no decisions were taken since the manager had already decided what she/he wanted. I'm still trying to figure out what the goals of these meetings were... probably just making sure all employee remember who the boss is.
lol at stuff that you learned has expired! True but hilarious
@@NotEvenFrench lmao😂😂
@@NotEvenFrench Another great video - this was excellent, so interesting with so many fascinating insights. But I'm not feeling the inference that because someone is 50 or 60 that their contributions are 'expired' or somehow not as worthy as someone younger. "Generational difference is a final frontier where stereotypes and prejudice are allowed, which means we attack rather than learn from each other". This article sums my feelings up - www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/ok-boomer-meme-hurts-gen-z-more-older-generation-it-ncna1079276
Is it about French business culture or Lingoda?
I don’t mind she gets sponsored because « tout travail mérite salaire ».
The roles that an HR executive takes on are expanding by the day with increasing technology. There is inconsistency in how firms use software in human resources in comparison to other departments. I believe that there is a big change that is coming in the HR department that is being led by Artificial Intelligence. Read more on this blog: blog.peoplehum.com/future-of-business/human-capital-management-software-and-its-impact-on-the-future-of-work/#bl
As a french person, I find that in small companies, the management style is not as refined (aka mostly yelling at employees). I worked at a small french bakery and patisserie shop for about a year, and I heard that the american employees couldn't stand the boss. I grew up in a french household however, so I wasn't really bothered. That being said, I did feel more stressed and pressured to do well when the boss was around.
The other thing is the social classes that you talked about. France's history has a lot of that. So it is my belief that it has been passed down through generations. I don't necessarily find this a bad thing though. It allows employees to know where they stand in the company. So, for instance: an employee who just started doesn't have as much influence (for lack of a better word), as an employee whose been with the company for years.
I’m an American working for a global manufacturing company based in Paris. Some of this I find true like the open debate, critical thinking, drive for perfection and precision, lack of compliments, and things like that. Oh and need to know French to progress. But I’ve never experienced the elitist/classism or game-playing office politics. I experience this more in America!! Perhaps because I’m in IT and a manufacturing company rather than fashion and beauty or the like? Or the group I work with is an anomaly 😁
Converging - going together / Diverging - going apart - your hand signs were exactly the opposite of the sense of the words. I have a French customer and can confirm the "theoretical" (even "methodological") bias and the ENDLESS discussions and telcos for simple stuff. The benefit though is that at least everything is explicitly considered and documented as such, so it's clear it wasn't forgotten but considered and discarded.
You are right, French managers usually have a short term seeing.
Also right, they push every one to be late on schedule or plan, because of this or that .. Sometimes we wonder what is up there !!
Multiplying meetings without real purpose or for secondary points, we hate that too, except the hierarchy. We call it "la réunionite".
You are also right saying they are never satisfied with our work. What ever we do, without an eye to the difficulties you met or came over, french manager are never happy, always asking for more and pointing the weak point. They have a special skill to find weak point :-D
To my eyes they are not much open to discuss about their own decisions, also not ready to question their ideas. Most of the time they dislike that you provide an idea they didn't get them self. It is an illusion to believe that they are open.
PS : I don't agree with your first UGLY point ^_^
Completely agree on the elitism. After when it comes to the goods and bads I feel like a lot of it depends on which management style works better for you.
I still find it very awkward that my manager and even the ceo would have drinks or go around town in bars with the other employees. I’m french and been in New Zealand for 5 years and with that company almost since I arrived but still bugs me 🤷🏻♀️
Pour la question du tu ou du vous.
Nous sommes comme cela est souvent le cas entre la France, les États-Unis et l'Angleterre.
Je préfère le vouvoiement à l'intérieur d'un contexte d'affaires.
À Montréal, les gens ne discutent pas de leur vie personnelle au travail ou à peu près pas.
L'on voit cela comme étant: cela ne vous regarde pas.
Et honnêtement, l'inverse me rendrait mal à l'aise comme la majorité des gens à Montréal.
Je crois qu'en région, c'est légèrement différent car les gens sont appelés à se rencontrer plus fréquemment dans les endroits publics où la vie personnelle devient moins imperméable.
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Nous avons plusieurs Français à Montréal et l'on peut constater cela surtout durant les premiers mois suivant leur arrivée.
Ce que j'appelle la masturbation intellectuelle française où l'on parle pour ne rien dire ou pour tourner en rond.
Heureusement, cela passe rapidement pour la vaste majorité car sinon, ils n'auraient pas de succès sur le marché du travail.
Cette habitude et le complexe de supériorité des Français par rapport au Québec n'est presque plus là.
Ce qui fait que l'on entend plus que très rarement l'expression maudits Français sur le marché du travail.
J'ai fréquenté deux stagiaires dans mon entreprise qui provenaient de deux grandes écoles de Paris.
Et franchement, ils étaient insupportables tellement ils étaient prétentieux.
Ce genre de Français est devenue l'exception plutôt que la règle. Je crois que les Français apprécient notre marché du travail qui se situe vraiment entre celui des USA et la France.
C'est ce que vos vidéos illustrent en tous cas.
Continuez votre beau travail.
Je n'ai jamais été à Montréal, mais l'image que j'ai de par les rencontres que j'ai pu faire et les reportages divers que j'ai pu voir me laisse à penser que la vie y est bien plus ouverte, le travail plus moderne, et plus respectueux que ce que l'on fait par chez nous. Si les francais étaient condescendants auparavant, vous avez raison je pense que c'est bien fini. La France est un pays vieillo, inreformable, traditionaliste et lourd administrativement. Le Canada fait envie c'est clair.
I'm not sure if I could work in France 😅
I'm french and I think you don't really understand how french High School system work. I will speak for sciences because I know how it's work.
In fact, french best schools (the Ecoles Normales Superieurs (ENS) and Polytechniques (the X)) are SUPER hard but the way you get in (which is named "classes préparatoires aux grandes ecoles (CPGE)") are EVEN harder. There is over ways to get in like the universities but it's not the main way and when you enter in the Engenering schools, you can't match with preparators (in general). That is the reason why the seems easy. In fact, after prépa, you have an super level in sciences in general so you can make parties an not work much if you "only" want to have a great job and not a super job.
Furthermore, French best schools are not universities but reserch and management publics schools, they are not in top world school ranking because they are not universities (hard to judge like universities because you can't compare budget of the 2 and the buget is one of criteria) BUT they form some of the best searchers in the world (in math and physique). The fact that they are public schools permit them to form students to theroical reserches and not to industrials researches that private school prefers (like in the US or UK I think).
And finally, yes, the network really help to get in the companies but there is a reason behind that : you know what people of your school are made of. So I think it's seems to be ugly for you and not always equal for everybody but people in the top are no joke (in general) ; - )
(www.ens.fr/grandes_dates)
Nobel price for 10 000 students:
1- Ecole Normale Supérieure (France) - 13,5
2- California Institue of Technology (USA) - 6,7
3- Harvard University (USA) - 3,2
4- Swarthmore University (USA) - 2,7
5- Cambridge University (UK) - 2,5
6- Ecole Polytechnique (France) - 2,5
7- Massachusets Institute of Technology (USA) - 2,5
8- Columbia University (USA) - 2,1
9- Amherst College (USA) - 1,9
10- University of Chicago (USA) - 1,7
I'm not really sure of this source but the classement is more or less the same in general
And there are not the over medals like the Phils medals and the CNRS medals, only Nobel's prices
I think I make a typical french debate =). Thx for your videos, they give us many externs pov on ourselves.
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I thought Lingoda was not doing another marathon ?
@@NotEvenFrench oh okay, thanks Rosie. I qm alresdy doing the marathon now and was wondering. Haha
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Hi, I'm French and I have been working in the US for 6 years. I lived what you describe but in the opposite direction. Your analysis of very accurate. Regrading the praise, positive feedback, it is so natural not to receive any that the first time a manager gave me positive feedback in the US, it made me uncomfortable. I felt like he was try to con me somehow. After 6 years, I can receive positive feedback :-). Regarding office politics... I'm afraid it is the same everywhere. I cam to the US hoping it would be better... it is not. Good video, thanks!
I never liked working with French (France) people, I found most of them, will argue and defend their view out of ego, and not to get the best results, as leaders they acted like everyone was just one of their hands, not respecting valid opinions from professionals, They don't keep people properly informed, and seems like they acted more out of insecurity to prove something, but that attitude gave really sub par results, leaving people demotivated. So much time was wasted on petty things while the important larger issues lacked priority
That was my experience.
This was my experience with french person i met online, overly opinionated, will hold strong opinions even if shown otherwise, focus on details rather than big pictures, wasting time on her annoying detailed opinions, love to complain, vague, annoyed when asked to be straightforward
That’s my experience too.
1:45 this is standard office politics the world over. You won't find happy and chummy in the corporate world. I worked consulting in MBB in US and EU across DR, FR, ESP and NED and it is dog eat dog in corporate culture. It's very competitive, people are generally smart and they will climb over bodies to go up the ladder. France was no different. Know the language well people.
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Hi
Well observed. « Pas mal » has been banned from our vocabulary as it is helpless as an expression. Thanks to the Anglo-saxon, we focus more on the positive in our general life and in parenting.
Regarding the poise of the Anglo-saxon for making presentation, I’ve learnt they are often just blowing smoke. They are good at being assertive, but this must not be interpreted as a sign of competence and experience in a given topic. Often, the shell is empty !
The obsession for details is the worst thing you have to deal with because it is a serious brake to innovations and entrepreneurial spirit. French are risk adverse and want to be sure risk mitigation is established to its maximum.
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Right, so with video I've learned that, if I move to France, I need to either own the business or be well-off enough to not work. Otherwise I, personally, would be miserable. I'm emotion-driven rather than analytical, and conflict-adverse.
Indeed, that can be tough because we will be direct with you. In our mind, we're being nice by being honest because we want the best for you and the general situation.
@@Raphanne I can appreciate that. I think the directness is why some mis-interpret the French as being "rude". (They are not, of course.) It seems to me that French culture is largely driven by factual intelligence rather than emotional intelligence. Which makes it so fascinating that France has also been so influential in art, etc. As for me, my psychology is all about diplomacy, conflict reduction and teaching through positive encouragement. I'm also extremely extroverted (smiling a lot, talk easily to strangers, etc). The French will think I'm an alien, mdr. This is a quite accurate write up of me: www.16personalities.com/fr/la-personnalite-enfj
ce que tu dis fait que les francais managers ressemblent trés jollies et belles personnes (c'est une ironie)
So difficult to compare based on personal experiences, but I'm surprised that French managers are more flexible. I find people here generally less flexible and adaptable, as a generalization I find the French very uncomfortable with change.
But yesssss the distance makes me so so sad, I have struggled so much with it :( Everyone is saying that socialising is falsely forcing people to be friends...I find the distance a very false and unnatural barrier - in Scotland it's normal and natural to be pals with your colleagues, so for me here it's falsely forcing me to not chat/joke about a bit/ask about their life.
Hey, I feel you. I'm French, but I understand how hard and disheartening it can be to work/live in a different culture.
In France, people tend to separate quite firmly their personal and professional lives (which also ensures that you don't end up spending all your time thinking of work). Friendships at work exist, but they take time building... like every other kind of friendship. French people tend not to care for superficial socialising (that usually comes off as too forceful, false, and generally empty), especially in the workplace.
However, you can find warmth, light-heartedness, empathy and, most importantly, respect at work. Which is essential as well. If you're cool, people will genuinely like spending time around you. And I believe it's important to see it too (and potentially heart-warming/reassuring). Nice relations between colleagues exist; it's different than friendships, but it's precious.
Btw, I'd argue that it's totally okay to joke around at work in most environements (except if your colleagues are utter grinch. And be careful about the jokes you make around your bosses: that can be seen as disrespectful if they haven't started it). It's quite common to share laughs at work (not massive pranks, but more... or less polite jokes are often appreciated), and to come back home with many funny stories from work. Throughout my professional experiences, I can't tell you how often I came home saying "You won't beLIEVE that funny thing that happened at work today". (Massive exception for the luxury industry: worst internship in the coldest environment. But anywhere else, I find that people are cool and can share quite a bit of silliness)
Tbh, it's cliché, but sharing frustrations can be the way to socialise in the workplace, for example. But it's true that you'll probably have to wait quite some time before a colleague goes out in a bar with you or invites you over.
Once again, it takes time building strong relationships, especially in a context that is separate from your private life.
An easier way to start friendships would be to go out in bars and socialise there, for example. Or attend events/conferences... Take part in activities organised by associations. Talk on groups of shared interest/events on social media...
You will need to invest time outside of work to find groups to socialise with.
(Truth be told... I don't think the French are the worst at socialising on the workplace? Usually, people talk and share jokes before/after meetings or during breaks. They have coffee together and such. They even celebrate the team's achievements. I remember having to work with German people, and I was quite disheartened by the fact that they were exclusively oriented towards work, and not at all focused on interpersonal relationships. Hence taking me quite some time to build trust, even professionally. The assignement only lasted a semester, but I couldn't manage to feel comfortable in that group. I think I know myself and my culture better now, so that situation would be more comfortable now, but... Yes, I feel you.)
Bon courage ; ça va aller ! =)
Skip to 4:35 thats when the video starts.
Hi I’m living in France as a trainee. But I experience the total opposite of your statements unfortunately
Très intéressant. Et très juste, hélas, quant aux faiblesses du management à la français (ah ces fameuses grandes écoles dans laquelle tu rentres à peine sorti de l'adolescence et qui façonnent ta façon de voir les choses, ton réseau, ta réputation, ton image pour les 60 ans à venir... Et cette horrible épidémie de "réunionite", qui ne sert à rien, fait faire du surplace et inhibe tout le monde... )
Unclear instructions from the higher-ups and meetings that go over schedule because there's always someone who wants to throw in yet another point have been the bane of my professional life.
I'm a Sciences-Po alumnus, by the way, but it hasn't helped much, because I was too socially awkward as a student to join any of the old boys' networks.
I like Lingoda. Having said that, remember they are a German company and therefore there are 1 million rules to be followed, with no exceptions.
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I have been teaching for 5 years and I have had very little success with the French directors. It is the language difference but it also the lack of respect for immigrants too. When I worked independently/auto-entrepreneurial .
French mgmt is way too negative for me.
Good afternoon friends!
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U look french. Striped jumper
Salut I am French and I dot agree on two topics : not socializing is NOT bad . As people say below, private life and business are different . I always hated during my career in an international company why you where obliged in Germany, USA or UK to sacialize afterwork. This is taken on your time of freedom.
Second : elitism is not BAD neither. As an Alumni of one of the big five, I can say without any doubt and after 40 years of working,that people coming from those schools are much better prepared to business that those coming from our poor universities.
Is Elon Musk French ? Probably the worst presentations around :D
Without the marketing horse sh+#$, video starts at 4:40.
Are you cryptocurrency oriented?
Sorry, but one could get a seizure because of this type of editing, it's really unpleasant to listen. Jumping from one talking scene to another with this pace, I know everyone is doing it today, but it's horrible! Such a pressure. Also, the first THIRD of your video is completely irrelevant to the topic. Just try to return to your normal way of talking and everything will be perfect... Thanks for the video anyway!
Not even interesting...
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Wow, I found her video very insightful and interesting. To each their own.
@@Raphanne i thought it was well thoughtout too..... Can't please everyone i guess.🙄