CORRECTIONS: One thing I worry I didn't make clear enough (or really at all) is if you want to simplify your way of thinking about it, basically you are just telling mari what eveything is when you import images or data so that it can handle it all correctly. Having loads of different images in loads of different colour spaces and file formats is complex, so the colour space settings are there to let Mari get everything in order and looking correct behind the scenes so you can paint your wonderful textures! (Before anyone says it - yes I know linear isn't actually a colour space it's a version of sRGB without the 2.2 gamma curve. If it's not needed for getting started with Mari here, I didn't want to include it)
I also followed the discord about this xD wasn't the solution from foundry to always pick colors in 8bit and let Mary transfer it to whatever space you paint in? Color or scalar?
@@gold_kult6690 Hahah, yer while there was a solution it felt too niche to mention in this - it also felt like a work around rather than a solution which is why I didn't bring it up. I just thought it was a good example to demonstrate that it never always goes right!
@@MichaelWildeVFX Yeah most def xD These things always work in different ways in all software. First I thought, "ah learn linear" and then "ah learn aces" but you need to learn all the different quirks in all software regarding color space settings and usage xD
For someone coming across the Linear vs RAW, the difference is Linear simply removes the Gamma Correction from the sRGB image (i.e. it stays an sRGB image with no Gamma correction), while RAW makes the software treat the whole image file as just a spreadsheet with numbers instead of it being in a color space. If the image isn't conveying color at all, there is no differences far as I know. With the understanding above, my guess is ACES workflow uses only RAW because multiple types of color spaces are used for various shots and setting everything to RAW would maybe mitigate confusion and accidents.
Thank you for extinguishing this dumpster fire that is Colorspace, at least partially. It’s a nightmare, I agree, but I think you explained it well. One thing I caught, it’s my understanding that when you bring images into the image manager they should be set based on how you will use them (mask/scalar or colour). So if you’re painting those leaks into a scalar channel, like a mask, the image should be set to scalar, otherwise it could be affected by the showlut and could have a weird green shift and your white point could be off and whatnot. That’s what I do at least, I hope I haven’t been doing it wrong but I’m never sure of anything really :D.
Nice one please continue this series very useful. Please do similar series about Substance after this its always good to learn from industry professional as other tutorials come with a lot of wrong information being passed on.
Great stuff! :) About 12:22 (I could be completely wrong here, correct me if I am) what I think I've noticed is that changing the color space there just changes the default export color space for that channel (which you can change after the fact anyways) so it just saves you a click then. Also when viewing it I would assume the viewport color space would change depending on if the channel is linear or sRGB
Hi Michael, thanks again for your videos, I have one question that have been bagging for a very long time, can you please explain when we use raw over linear data when.it comes to aces.
What about the color picker? Should we change it to raw when painting the disp, bmp... Etc. ? How come you don't make the imported tiles used for the scalar channels, as scalar? You left it as srgb but when you imported the specr, disp, you set it to scalar?
EXR is usually at least DISP since often you will be working with 32 bit data and Zbrush includes metadeta in the exr exports too I believe. Tif should be fine for the others but making sure it's 16 bit so you have enough bit depth for the values
Love your humour, Michael :) Got a question about importing images into the image manager that are to be used for projecting into a data channel such as roughness. In this case, the imported map used for projecting, that would be set to linear and scalar right?
I always just set them to raw to be sure, but yes I do believe that would be the case. Below Stu said a similar thing too below so I'd check his answer too!
Cheers. Hell...I'm even confusing myself in my question..."that would be set to linear and scalar right?" - I meant RAW and Scalar. I thought I was being completely thick with the multitude of Mari's options.
I can't help thinking there must be a better way. I know ACES/OCIO was supposed to standardize it all, but it's still way too finicky to get everything working properly. There are too many input and output transforms and every app seems to handle things a little differently. Very frustrating...
As long as you get everything into ACES everything will be fine. It's just the input (and potentially the output) that's a bit complicated, but you'd still have this problem without ACES. The advantage is just that this way you don't have to do this work between your different software packages (like for example when moving from Substance to Mari to Maya to Nuke you will only need to deal with ACES and nothing else).
@@Luxalpa Thanks! You're right. I eventually ended up making my own OCIO config that I use across all apps and platforms now. It's just the bare minimum needed for CG work. Much better than default ACES 1.2. OCIO v2 is looking promising (the default that comes with Maya 2022 is nicely streamlined), so hopefully it will fix a lot of the confusion going forward.
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CORRECTIONS:
One thing I worry I didn't make clear enough (or really at all) is if you want to simplify your way of thinking about it, basically you are just telling mari what eveything is when you import images or data so that it can handle it all correctly. Having loads of different images in loads of different colour spaces and file formats is complex, so the colour space settings are there to let Mari get everything in order and looking correct behind the scenes so you can paint your wonderful textures!
(Before anyone says it - yes I know linear isn't actually a colour space it's a version of sRGB without the 2.2 gamma curve. If it's not needed for getting started with Mari here, I didn't want to include it)
I also followed the discord about this xD wasn't the solution from foundry to always pick colors in 8bit and let Mary transfer it to whatever space you paint in? Color or scalar?
@@gold_kult6690 Hahah, yer while there was a solution it felt too niche to mention in this - it also felt like a work around rather than a solution which is why I didn't bring it up. I just thought it was a good example to demonstrate that it never always goes right!
@@MichaelWildeVFX Yeah most def xD These things always work in different ways in all software. First I thought, "ah learn linear" and then "ah learn aces" but you need to learn all the different quirks in all software regarding color space settings and usage xD
For someone coming across the Linear vs RAW, the difference is Linear simply removes the Gamma Correction from the sRGB image (i.e. it stays an sRGB image with no Gamma correction), while RAW makes the software treat the whole image file as just a spreadsheet with numbers instead of it being in a color space. If the image isn't conveying color at all, there is no differences far as I know. With the understanding above, my guess is ACES workflow uses only RAW because multiple types of color spaces are used for various shots and setting everything to RAW would maybe mitigate confusion and accidents.
bro, you are explaining this in a fun way, love it. keep it up
This is the funniest tutorial I ever saw in my life! Thank you, Master, for making this quick introduction to 3D Memology Science!
Thank you for extinguishing this dumpster fire that is Colorspace, at least partially. It’s a nightmare, I agree, but I think you explained it well.
One thing I caught, it’s my understanding that when you bring images into the image manager they should be set based on how you will use them (mask/scalar or colour). So if you’re painting those leaks into a scalar channel, like a mask, the image should be set to scalar, otherwise it could be affected by the showlut and could have a weird green shift and your white point could be off and whatnot. That’s what I do at least, I hope I haven’t been doing it wrong but I’m never sure of anything really :D.
I find your way of explaining things very entertaining. Thanks.
Nice one please continue this series very useful. Please do similar series about Substance after this its always good to learn from industry professional as other tutorials come with a lot of wrong information being passed on.
Great stuff! :) About 12:22 (I could be completely wrong here, correct me if I am) what I think I've noticed is that changing the color space there just changes the default export color space for that channel (which you can change after the fact anyways) so it just saves you a click then. Also when viewing it I would assume the viewport color space would change depending on if the channel is linear or sRGB
Hi Michael, thanks again for your videos, I have one question that have been bagging for a very long time, can you please explain when we use raw over linear data when.it comes to aces.
Thanks for your sacrifice and explaining this. :D
What about the color picker? Should we change it to raw when painting the disp, bmp... Etc. ?
How come you don't make the imported tiles used for the scalar channels, as scalar? You left it as srgb but when you imported the specr, disp, you set it to scalar?
Great video, really important information. thank you so much
isn't normal Map a srgb map? 16:56
Thank you very much for this Tutorial series on Mari by the way. It saved me a lot of troubles.
it's raw
idk if this is a stupid question but for disp spec rough maps is tif better or exr?
EXR is usually at least DISP since often you will be working with 32 bit data and Zbrush includes metadeta in the exr exports too I believe. Tif should be fine for the others but making sure it's 16 bit so you have enough bit depth for the values
@@MichaelWildeVFX Oh ok thanks
@@MichaelWildeVFX will 32 bit for spec roughness and stuff be too much?
Love your humour, Michael :) Got a question about importing images into the image manager that are to be used for projecting into a data channel such as roughness. In this case, the imported map used for projecting, that would be set to linear and scalar right?
I always just set them to raw to be sure, but yes I do believe that would be the case. Below Stu said a similar thing too below so I'd check his answer too!
Cheers. Hell...I'm even confusing myself in my question..."that would be set to linear and scalar right?" - I meant RAW and Scalar. I thought I was being completely thick with the multitude of Mari's options.
@@scarabrae Oh it's a nightmare remembering it all. Tip number 1, never blame yourself, always blame the software ;)
@@MichaelWildeVFX 😂
Love your videos~! btw do you delete images (textures or references) after you use it?
Nope, I keep everything in the image manager incase I need it again!
I can't help thinking there must be a better way. I know ACES/OCIO was supposed to standardize it all, but it's still way too finicky to get everything working properly. There are too many input and output transforms and every app seems to handle things a little differently. Very frustrating...
As long as you get everything into ACES everything will be fine. It's just the input (and potentially the output) that's a bit complicated, but you'd still have this problem without ACES. The advantage is just that this way you don't have to do this work between your different software packages (like for example when moving from Substance to Mari to Maya to Nuke you will only need to deal with ACES and nothing else).
@@Luxalpa Thanks! You're right. I eventually ended up making my own OCIO config that I use across all apps and platforms now. It's just the bare minimum needed for CG work. Much better than default ACES 1.2. OCIO v2 is looking promising (the default that comes with Maya 2022 is nicely streamlined), so hopefully it will fix a lot of the confusion going forward.
Thank you
what is the pink hue on the outer edges?
Edge masking :)