Hearthstone: The Great Debate ft. Amaz Part 1
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ส.ค. 2024
- A single decision has affected the entire outcome of this run, choose your side by going to [preferred social media platform] and use the tag #Rider or #Healbot to cast your vote for this thrilling debate
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Outro:
DJ Okawari - Flower Dance
• DJ Okawari - Flower Da...
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Thank you so much for watching! - เกม
"I DON'T WANT A FUCKING HEALBOT IN THIS DECK" ~ Hafu
Amaz is just talking about one situation even though wolf rider is stronger in a lot more situation
Hafu is correct, her logic and statements are well thought-out and correct. #Rider
has amaz as guest, ignores all suggestions. 😂
Alan Aure good
In her defense, Amaz is terrible and the draft turned out much better for it.
+Beaky That's not good defense. The point is, why even have Amaz on in the first place?
if she had him on for help, if you dont try new things youll end up with the same results
Novron Banter, mostly, but he has occasionally made good suggestions and she has listened to him when he's had a point. I probably came across a little too strong in my first post: Amaz isn't terrible, Antique Healbot was just a terrible suggestion with no real supporting argument (or at least a really bad one).
Healbot assumes we're already playing from behind. I play to win games, not to mess up my opponent's lethal. #Rider
Jaron Paige Wishful thinking doesn't get you 12 wins. One card to stop a tempo deck seems smart when you're going against 14 cascadingly better decks.
Danial B. according to ur logic zoo decks should take 1 antique healbot to 'counter' aggro shaman during the times zoo gets out-tempo'ed,which makes 0 sense
Well, constructed is different from arena. In constructed you can face a plethora of deck archetypes where tech-choices can make the difference in a meta whereas arena is primarily tempo or mid-range deck-types, so different things can apply there to arena.
Having said that, I'd still have preferred Wolfrider. It's just better for curve and tempo overall. And to be an infinite arena player, you only need 7-8 wins on average anyway, no real need to get 12 except for personal achievements. Arena is almost always about trading rather than healing. If you're ahead on board, healing almost never matters unless it's Reno.
Hafu plays so much arena I feel like the 'wishful thinking doesn't get you 12 wins' doesn't really apply here especially given that she plays arena far more than Amaz and has far more 12 wins.
#TeamWolfrider
Everytime Amaz says "Healbot", I'm like... "Shut up"
wow this escalated quickly
Heal-bot is right, early wins would have been won anyway #Healbot
Aaron Frawley
ikr. Hafu goes super ham in all of her decks, so its no surprise she doesnt like healbot. Maybe it's because I'm bad at this game, but i love that card
Aaron Frawley justice for amaz
@Nujum Key & @Aaron Frawley you play healbot & they play pit fighter or worse and destroy you + portal is more often present now (gives 6 hp + better body most of the time)...
Fremy Jokery it's not a turn 5 play, it's a "oh my opponent stopped trading his 2-1 into my 5-1 because he's going for face so imma take free trades, get back on board, and heal" play.
People get baited super hard by heals/ taunts
Nujum Key yes so dont pick it
Ok, Amaz is just dumb. His argument of "it doesn't matter that Wolfrider is better in these particular situations, it matters that there could be one situation in which you need Healbot" is flawed in sooo many ways.
First, the argument can be used in reverse, you can very well figure a situation in which you don't need heal but need three damage.
Second, the important thing is consistency. One can imagine many situations in which Captain Greenskin's unique effect is better than Dr. Boom, but you wouldn't draft Greenskin just because these situations exist. The point is that, in most cases, Dr. Boom will be better, and that should be the rationale for choosing the best card.
Tiago Bruno Reis Wolf rider is rarely going to be needed to win and wasn't needed to win, she had other comparable plays. Healbot is to prevent a loss against a strong tempo deck because you're deck is not gonna be the best one out there.
Wolf rider = removal = tempo.
I'm not even saying which card I would pick there (yes, I would pick Wolfrider, though), I'm just saying how bad Amaz's arguments are.
y'all picking healbot, having the loser's mentality. for every 1 game you win with healbot>wolfrider, you win 4 more with wolfrider>healbot. You play to win, not to extend the loss
#wolfrider
I strongly disagree with amaz's way of beating mage.
However, I'd very likely take at least one of those healbots. cause it sucks when you gain board but they just kill your face.
I don't know what happened to Amaz in the past months. For some reason he makes much weaker plays and decisions in Arena now. Definitely #Rider
He finally got laid.
Not My Name I think he's also resigning like 70% of his drafts, rarely tuning in on him but it feels like he's drafting really fast and then is disappointed before he even starts playing
To be fair, I thought that healbot was the pick but I wouldn't argue with the Haffster on arena picks xD
Angry Hafu, tearing into Amaz was hilarious.
Who would have thought seeing two people argue over Arena drafts would be so entertaining
I like how amaz is still not agreeing that wolfrider was better on first game when it clearly was :)
It's really not. Just because it's a faster play that simplifies the board state doesn't mean it was good, or even the correct play in some cases. They could've just played the 4/4 nerubian prophet (while still playing raven idol) and the opponent would've traded for them 100% of the time, otherwise the 4/4 had a clean trade into the 2/4 grove tender. Same outcome as wolfrider, just a longer process. Wolfrider is exactly as amaz said, 3 mana 3 damage in most situations. You would rarely charge it at face or a 0 atk minion in arena so it's a mediocre pick where numerous other cards would do the same thing better, compared to a healbot which is quite unique in it's design and could save you from unwinnable games.
Healbot over Wolfrider????????
I agree with hafu's point. Sure, she may have overreacted a bit, but she was definitely right and her points were very solid. Amaz's logic is often very strange, I guess it suits his playstyle in hearthstone, but stats do indicate Hafu is a far better player.
I found the bickering way too amusing.
#TeamWolfRider
Even if i don't play hearthstone at all anymore, i don't want a dead 5 drop in my hand, nor do i not want an actual 5 drop on turn 5
Two different ways of playing, trying to play ahead vs. trying to comeback
s e x u a l t e n s i o n
"Curve doesn't matter" -Amaz, 2016
Hafu: "We go with your pick". Nope
The debate more interesting than the game
this was a really great video ily both so much.
I have a great deal of respect for both Hafu and Amaz when they're playing their own games, but their chemistry in this video just doesn't work, since they're bickering so much about everything and talking over each other constantly, making this less enjoyable to watch. BTW, #Rider
nah this is funny
And they have had previous co ops that where more amicable. From the healbot/rider point the theme became confrontational so they played that up to the max to make it entertaining.
yeaaaahh, I like the Firebat collab a lot more
Hafu, I think Amaz talks a lot of shit when it comes to 99% of your arena disagreements (wisp is a late game card lmao), but on this one... #Healbot for me. It's a close decision but Healbot gives you a fair bit of extra flexibility with the hero power and that seems fairly important in the current meta. If the Karazhan offering bonus were still in play I'd probably pick Rider. But 6 picks into the draft doesn't tell you so much about your curve to presume how its gonna end up imo and heals ARE a harder pickup than direct damage. With Kara bonus gone Moonglade is just as likely to pop up as any other Druid rare so it not really that likely while Wrath and Swipe and Roots are all pretty likely to show up at some point. Obviously direct damage is generally a lot better than heals anyway but I think the question worth asking is how much value do you place on having diverse win/not lose conditions.
But I accept I might just be triggered from how many times I've lost to clutch stabilising Healbots, which feel like a considerable portion of my arena losses.
LISTEN LISTEN LISTEN BabyRage
Go Team #Rider! Curve is the most important thing in arena most of the time. I've lost more games for not curving than for not having enough value.
In general, I think Amaz's healbot claim is valid. But it (and starfall) don't fit in a SMelf deck.
#Rider This drama is delicious :D. Can you please marry Amaz? Ohh, Amaz is right on this, the game agrees with him, it said healbot 3 times. P.S. he so salty my lawrd, I almost had to sympathy agree.
Healbot Topdeck to Survive, Wolfrider top deck for the win. so #Rider
u know they love each other when they fought for more than 2 min 2:00
Hafu is really being dominant, i mean i would like to see a draft where amaz actually made some choices apart from the obvious ones :/
After watching a few Hafu vids she seems to be one of the most intelligent streamers out there. Her logic and choice on wolf rider is correct. I wasn't even sold on it at first. Very smart girl, when discussing she makes every other guest look dumb.
I already know I'm going to agree with hafu like 95% of the time since I get triggered by scamaz's logic in his own videos.
Edit: I actually didn't totally disagree with what amaz was saying, saw where they both We're coming from, but holy shit this video was amazing. More full arena runs are always appreciated.
Idk why I watched this on twitch then watch this on TH-cam,
They both have good points but having a wolfrider which can remove a minion which you might not have been able to can save the face damage that the potential healbot can heal and it does so two turns earlier allowing turn 5 to actually have a stronger minion played, but what do I know, I'm just a rank 25 scrub
we want to be asking the questions not dealing the answers, but wolfrider does both #Rider
#Healbot
I'm late to the party, but I agree with scamaz on this one. Looking forward to viewing what the outcome will be :D
I mean argue if you want but damn this was like 4min + of it
I would've picked wolfrider, but I think the healbot over the ogre is the more controversial pick.
both of these guys never learned how to concede an argument when they are wrong.
This is so funny
this is all amaz being a priest player (always playing from a losing position)
Wolfrider = Swipe, Amaz is for sure a good player.
EDIT: "Curve doesn't matter." -Amaz 2016
Hafu is so right about wolfrider. Sorry Amaz
These two should never go on a road trip together.
Triggered
man I can feel the salt. I would say every pass on healbot was correct except the boulder fist ogre. the curve was already too heavy
#TeamHealBot
Enjoyed the banter though.
I feel sorry for amaz :(
i love this
Amaz is just a bad loser... he deviates the discussion from "Wolfrider was better than Healbot there" to "Healbot wouldn't have lost the game", which is still questionable. 100% agree with Hafu, would have picked #Rider there, no doubt.
Tiago Bruno Reis Hafu was right, but you missed Amaz's point. He was only saying that since Wolfrider wasn't needed for those wins, you couldn't weigh it being playable in those situations as strongly as you will eventually have to weigh the time it prevents you from losing.
*Healbot prevents you from losing.
YMasterS Healbot delays* the loss, doesn't help win. This deck's win condition is tempo. If it gets to the point, where your health is low from tempo loss (which wolfrider fights regains, effectively preventing new minions hitting face), you would have already lost cuz healbot doesn't help you get back on board and stop their minions to go face.
No, you're not getting it. Healbot doesn't delay the loss, it prevents it. In an even game you have to be constantly thinking about range and will usually have to make sub optimal plays to set up for lethal.
You can't account for a full 8 heal, otherwise you're giving the 99% of players who DON'T draft it more time than is necessary to swing the board and the game.
If you let them make their plays as though they can set up for lethal, then you drop healbot and a small removal, then use your minions to get optimum trades, you will win a game that you otherwise would have lost.
Your problem is that you're only seeing one situation. They have lethal, you have no board, the game is totally in their favour, but nothing is helping you there.
I could just as easily turn around and say that 3 mana for 3 damage is actually anti-tempo, so if your win condition is tempo, and they have the board or are threatening to, then you don't want Wolfrider.
Hafu's wolfrider logic is kinda flawed too though
amaz sucks at arguing. What hes trying to say is wolf rider is better only in those situational circumstances. But healbot is better in a larger percentage of the games because of the generally aggro focused arena meta. Even if it ended up being different, wolf is better in fringe scenario. Ofc youd have to prove that the meta is so focused the healbot goes up in value statistically.
i want a hafu and trump arena again
is hafu related to amaz? they bicker like my sister and i
#healbot totally not bribed by Scamaz.
*phone rings* Wait, what do you mean you can't pay me the $100 today?
#Rider. Why? 42:00
#Healbot it's more consistent, while wolfrider makes for more fancy plays. also kinda rude to have ur guests on like firebat and amaz most recently, and not take their ideas into consideration. also you're bossy as fck...xD
She listened to plenty of firebat's suggestions, probably because they were good.
She listened to plenty of Strifecro's as well. Usually, if a player is making good suggestions or can make a good argument for a weird suggestion, she's pretty flexible.
Fast cards win games. #rider
this is painfull
"strictly wrong" kek
good luck with that reasoning in a game with a fuckton of rng
Healbot is good insurance, wolfrider is too
That early in the draft you're probably better off picking wolfrider, just do realize there is some merit in healbot
Hahahahaha
Healbot is absolute shit in that deck can't believe amaz argued so hard to have it in. If the opponent is setting up lethal you've lost on the board anyway because healbot is such a shit body you continue to lose unless you've got spells (or wolfrider) to clear the board. What you want to do is not lose in the first place and step one of that is not drafting healbot #teamwolfrider
#Wolfrider #Rider
wait lol put aside the debates, how is dark whispers EVER good? I would never pick it, it's practically a 6 mana 5/5, and if you dont have the board you're over cuz it's a worse 'stand against the darkness' or whatever it's called. Pretty sure any other 6 drop is better than that
TwiCaCaX it's a 5/5 taunt CHARGE, so long as you have the board. You need to take account of the value of initiative.
It has other benefits over a 5/5 too, in that damage based removal struggles to deal with it, e.g Shadowstrike, firelands portal.
#Healbot
16:04.
wow I thought healbot was really obvious? and this isn't a healbot deck? 6 cards deep? lmao. heal is so important. WOLF RIDER OVER HEALBOT ARE YOU HI
#healbot
salty amaz lol
Trump and Hilary.
me no heal
me go face
#rider
#wolfrider
I feel sorry for amaz :(
#healbot
#healbot