Orchid Experiments: Using tap water & pH Down. +Preparing for Phalaenopsis seed flasking
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ก.พ. 2025
- #Orchids #pH #herebutnot #OrchidUpdate #breedingOrchids
Want to know more about pH for Orchids? Read this:
herebutnot.com/...
I’ve got a few new things on the go...and am just keeping you in the loop on the phals, phrags and other orchids in my collection!!
I know I said I don’t pH adjust in the past...I decided to experiment and I think I’ll be sticking with pH adjustment...but here is my general feedback and review on orchid water chemistry.
That is a wicked shirt 👍🏼 love the vids. That Phal. Anaconda is beautiful, I’ll be adding that to my wish list for sure. Kitties and plants for the win 🐱
Great video! Lots of nice plants in there! FYI if you catch surface contamination early enough, you can use a sterilized spoon to scoop out the mold growth. I've done this and it worked. Take a decent sized scoop, and you could add a few drops of 10% bleach in the cavity for extra insurance. Obviously, this must be done in your glove box after sterilizing all surfaces
ummmnooo100 - Tnx for the tip! I think I’m going to have to scrap the first batch...I keep finding spots of contamination. Which makes me think not getting it hot enough, means it wasn’t fully sterilized. The next set I’ll do in the real pressure cooker @15psi.
👋there you are again, so glad you made another video. Looks good, your seedlings look great. Cat is CUTE! I don't have pH anything yet, don't even have TDS thingy yet, but I did get MSU finally...and I now have 21 Phal species/ close hybrids! LOVE them. They are doing Super here in southern California, conditions seem to be their cuppa tea, growing roots, leaves, spikes, and blooming. LOVE them!! Please don't be so scarce!! I like your vids!! 💚🌿 and 💗🐾 😁
Thanks Patricia! Love that your phals are doing so well. And I will do my best to pick up some regularity with my updates. It’s a struggle some days-makin’ vids is fun, but gets my nerves going. 😳 Haha.
Beautiful video 👍 So cute kiss 🐈🤗 Very nice flovers 🌱🌸🌿🏵️🌺
Thank you for sharing.
pH meter needs to be calibrated each time before use. And phosphoric acid can change the pH so drastic so a tiny difference can change the pH a lot. Citric acid is safer and you can just add a few drops lemon juice to a gallon of water. That’s safer. I’m a chemist.
Thanks Sha Sun! I think I had to learn this lesson the hard way, unfortunately. I do calibrate my meter, but my last bottle of phosphoric acid was...quite damaging to many plants. I've since converted to citric acid (and a few other less harsh acids), like you've recommended. The phosphoric acid seemed to be causing phosphorus toxicity in some of my plants. :(
Interesting video! You live in western Canada right? A few points from someone who lives in Eastern Canada:
I saw where your vandas are growing...Vandas need a crap load of light...Vanda Pachara Delight is in bloom for me now with just 6 flowers. This one is summered outside under a 40% shade cloth south SW exposure from June until the end of August or when it spikes (whichever comes first). The first spike in May aborted because the plant was indoors, under lights and some SW light, but still not enough light to get that spike going. Once outside, it spiked again 2 weeks later and now it is in bloom. In winter, I have my vandas on a stand, wrapped in plasic to keep the heat from the lamps in and under lights (LED and fluorescent). The sun is lower in the sky. It only went below 15C a few nights. Pachara Delight was one of a few vandas that grew right through winter. So did Pine Rivers, another vanda type that bloomed 2Xs in the spring.
From observations, the ones that don't go dormant in winter are those that I've had the most success so far. I'm like you and going to try and bloom Mimi Palmer and tricolor, if they ever get to blooming size :) But I know I'm going to have to summer them outside in lots of heat and lots of light.
2nd point: about pH I am so with you on pH. Important for some plants but negligible for others. I've also made mistakes with pH due to a crappy pH meter and so yes you can do damage if you don't have the right tools. I've found generally that just plain clean water makes more difference in root growth than any pH adjustment you can make. Vanda roots are better in clean water but don't seem to care either for any pH adjustment. I grow my larger vandas either bare root in vases or in net pots with lava rock. They seem to respond well to long overnight soaks usually with some fertilizer, as opposed to just a quick daily spray. Just my seedlings are in pots and they do fine.
Always good to see what' going on in other people's collections...it's kind of quiet for flowers for me too, maybe just 4 types in bloom. But the vanda is the star at the moment.
Thanks ResQuetzal! Yes, Western Canada here. And Tnx for the tips...I figured light was an issue (and to be honest kind of figured that might be the case when I bought them-maybe I shouldn’t have got so many). I live in a condo and I don’t have a place outdoors that would work. I guess I’ll see what I can figure out. The Vanda tessellata may be just too small...it has grown a lot. Lots of roots and leaves...but maybe I’ll invest in some LEDs and move it away from the window. Again, thanks for the feedback...I love vandas and I hope one day I’ll get these guys to flower 🤞🏻
@@HerebutNot
The window is fine. If you can hang overhead LEDs over the Vandas, that might work. Our summer day lengths are fine but probably not adequate in Winter. I extend the day length in winter. I haven't figured out all the Vandas but at least they grow faster than ladyslippers and cattleyas.🙄
Hello, thank you for the this video and all the other very useful and interesting video. I have a few tips for your consideration ( I am writing very fast, so sorry for typos and not perfect English sentenecs). The tips come mostly from my hobby with planted aquariums. The PH that matters is the one around the roots. So, measuring the PH of the water + fertilisers is a starting point, not the end of the story. I think that the right PH around Orchids roots is generally accepted to be around 6.0, right?
So, I tell you what I do. First, I use lava rock as medium in the pot. I make it quite dense by splitting it as needed in smaller pieces of about 2 cm diameter each. Then I immerse completely up to the top the lava rock pot (with the orchid inside! ;-) in a slightly bigger pot where the water +fertilisers are mixed in a solution (with a TDS not higher than 500 ppm not too make it too concentrated). I leave it soaked there for at least 12 hours. When I get it out I measure the PH of the water + fertlysers in the slightly bigger pot after those 12+ hours. And it is that very water that has to have a PH around 6.0! To get to that PH, I have to start with a solution (i.e. water + fertlyzer) that ranges for me between PH 5.0 to 7.0 as each lava rock pot and orchids is slightly different from the others. After a few watering you know what is the starting PH you need to get to a PH of 6.0 for each pot.
Now a few considerations trying to anticipate possible comments and questions: 1) Why lava rock? With lava rock you cannot overwater as the water is not retained other that the one that is absorbed by the lava rock and which is a very good thing to keep the root humid and ventilated but not soaked at all! In addition, I can safely use fertlysrers on the high dose side boosting growth and blooming , because there is no accumulation of salts; Another big advantage for me is that even smaller pots become heavy enough with lava rock to be stable and afford long sticks for the flowers. 2) Why 12+ hours soak? Because the roots of the orchids keep absorbing water and nutrients even up to 48 hours or more! They grow bigger and bigger like a sponge. And the lava rock permits excellent aeration after this long soaking period, avoiding any problems. Using instead the typical medium 12+ hours could become easily a problem...And last but not least, I suggest to buy the pure dry fertlyzers for aquarium plants. They are pure, cost less, last for years and you can mix them as you like. They give me 100% flexibility. Usually I water once per week. On one week I dose Ca(NO3)2 +MG(NO3)2 + KHPO4 + KNO3 to get roughly to a solution of: N=130 ppm; Ca=80 ppm; Mg 30 ppm; P=20 ppm; K=150ppm. The next week I dose micronutrients with Easilfe Profito + K2SO4 to add the Sulphur. Yes, of course I use RO water as here in the Netherlands the PH is 8,4 and KH is about 10. Far too high for orchids, not to mention that Sodium is also on the high side 60 ppm! If I need to lower the PH of the solution I add ascorbic acid (yes, vitamin C !). If I have to increase it...of course my tap water.
I can share more details if you are interested.
Cheers,
Davide
Hi Davide - thanks for the tips. That's more or less what I do these days. I don't soak for as long (only 15-30mins max), but I use some amount of organic to hold moisture longer. I have found inert materials like lava rock, leca and pumice just don't hold enough water for my dry climate. A bit of organic media (bark/sphagnum/peat) helps me ensure the plants aren't drying out too fast. I actually had a pretty big catastrophe pH adjusting though...I was using Phosphoric acid and something in that product...just totally messed my plants up. I don't know if it caused calcium lockout in the form of Calcium Phosphate, or if there was something specifically about the product I was using...but it devastated about 30% of my collection. So now, I alternate between low pH and high pH: 6.0 one week, 7.9 the next week - back and forth, back and forth, so the pH never gets too low or too high after repeated applications. I still think pH adjustment is good and smart...but it sure has the potential to really screw a collection up if you mess something up.
Are you on instagram? would love to see your plants. Cheers - and thanks again for sharing your experience.
@@HerebutNot Hi, thanks for the fast reply. No, I do not have instagram and right now I have only two Orchids in lava rock. They are doing very well. I had to move out from my house due to a 5 month long refurbishment and the mealy bug did the rest on my previous plants. All of them, not only the Orchids. Actually I was a numbie and did not take precautions. Even my plants in the office got infected. I had to threw them away after 1 year of war! So, now I am slowly rebuying them. A few considerations to your reply. First of all, you are doing amazing staff with your flasking. Orchids are special plants, and surely you know it better than me, but growing their seed is even far more "special". Congratulations. My home is quite dry and I did not have any problems with lava rock not providing enough moisture. Maybe it is because i let the roots to store so much water. There is a video of a lady doing ecperiments with a Vanda and reporting her results with graph. Basically she weighted the Vanda dry and after the soaking. She proved that only after more than 6 hour of soakjng the Vanda roots started to absorbe less water. In other words, the curve starts flattening not before 6 hours and even after 48 hours the root keep absorbing a little more water. Now, regarding PH again. I have learned it the hard way with my aquarium mistake after mistake. Ler me use an example. PH i like temperature; alkalinity is like the mass. If you get on your skin a grain of sand at 1000 C it will make you little or no harm at all. If you get a glass of water at 100 C on your skin instead? So, PH only matter when you have reached the equilibrium and the big guy deciding where the equilibrium is is the alkalinity. I successfully play with my big plants in big vases adding Nitric acid (it is more effective than phosphoiric acid, but the concept is the same). In big vases it is safe because the soil there has a lot of mass and alkalinity and the ph swing is very limited. So, i get the ph I want in about 10 doses and i keep measuring it to avoid problems. But the pot of an orchid has very little mass/ alkalinity. The PH swing can be massive. The only way to overcome this problem is to do what I have reported in my previous message
Thanks for the update! I enjoy watching these types of videos even if there aren't many blooms to show :). Are you planning on filming the flasking?
Gabrielle-I wasn’t going to for my first flasking only because it’s all experiment. I have a hard time with “exploration videos” that may lead people astray. What do you think though? Should I film the first attempt? Or wait until I’m better at it?
I would love to see a first attempt! I enjoy watching people try new things. It's nice to see what people are thinking or how things are reasoned about. I don't necessarily think people will be led astray, as long as you explain what's going I think it'll be fine :).
Nice collection. Impressive growing in the frozen north, especially the seedlings, we have it a bit easier in Florida. If you like Catasetum blooms but not size, there are some smaller growing hybrids (e.g. Clowesia Rebecca Northen). I wouldn't call them tiny but they are a good bit smaller than the big bruisers.
Thanks for the tips Michael!! I have one Clowesetum which is indeed smaller. I had got a bunch of Fred’s new “mini” Fdks last fall...turns out they weren’t so mini. Haha. It’s all good though. I love all my orchids, even the greedy leafy ones!
Interesting, I didn't know that Fred was working on mini crosses. I guess "mini" is defined by pseubobulb height, not leafspan, judging by photos. Out of curiosity, has anyone ever told you that you look like a particular actor? I've been racking my brain trying to figure out who the heck you remind me of, just can't put my finger on it. Some good looking guy from Hollywood anyway (but with a better accent!).
Hahahaha - I get Daniel Craig on occasion...but I’m not nearly as 007 buff. 🤣
oh my no, not Daniel Craig 🤮. I keep thinking Edward Burns or Casey Affleck, but that isn't right, it will come to me one day when I least expect it and then I will forget 5 minutes later. And buff isn't necessarily better 😉
I finally figured it out! You remind me of Rick Cosnett. Yeah, you might have to look him up, not a big time actor. He was on one season of The Vampire Diaries and season one of The Flash. Hopefully you won't be all "eew, you think I look like him??!!"
Do you actually have a video where you show us how you pollinate your orchids cuz if you do can you please lead me to it cuz I like to know how to properly pollinate my orchids when they come into bloom so I can get pods and save them please and thank you 😊💕😘
Mmmm, I don’t. But what do you want to know how to pollinate?
@@HerebutNot brassavolas would be cool along with the coconut orchid just for staters 😏😊☺️🥰
Hi! I just got my first Phrag. Schlimii and wanting to know in winter, how often do you water your orchids, and whether you still let them sit in a water saucer during the cooler months? Also, do you use a humidifier and do you ever have mould issues during cooler weather? Thanks.
Tangles Long - I still water every week in the winter. If they plants are staying moist and the media feels too wet, the I’ll leave less in the tray. Enough that it pools for a few days, but is evaporated by the next watering. I don’t use any humidifiers. The plants do fine with my dry climate-but they never dry out too hard and never for more than a few days (because I saturate/flush them every week regardless of how much is left in the tray)
Hi,
Wanted to know if you always keep your vandas in pots instead of leaving them hanging with all roots outside.
I lost 3 vandas this winter and wanted to know what media you are using. If possible to have some details on it.
I spray all my orchids but they are loosing the leaves after becoming yellow and are dying in winter.
I don't have any idea and don't know why.
On your videos, found that your orchids leaves are wet with water droplets and they are looking great.
Thanks for update.
Daniel
Daniel JHEELAN - yeah, my vandas are potted in large pots w/ wine corks and a top-dressing of sphagnum. I wrote up a care sheet if you want to know more deets: herebutnot.com/vandas-care-culture-tips-growing-vandas-dry-climates/
As far as your orchid leaves, make sure you’ve got good airflow and light. And that the leaves dry within about 4 hours after watering
Is there a reason you use water from your tap? I find it super easy to collect rain water where I’m at and it rains so often I’m never out of rain water. My phrags especially love the rain water. When I used to keep Betta fish, I used to add Indian almond leaves to the water. It was supposed to lower the ph of the water and condition the water with tannins for the fish. I’ve always wondered if my orchid collection might benefit from the same.
I live in a condo building in a city. Water collection wouldn’t be easy. Also, the tap water works well, so why not?
@@HerebutNot You should mesure your tap water GH and KH. If you have high GH and KH then putting acids in your water is worth nothing. I started to use RO water on my plants and they are much better now. RO filter is a must I think.
Thom - GH (General hardness) is the amount of Calcium and Magnesium in your water. Most ppl add this on purpose in the form of CalMag to improve cell structure and plant resistance to pathogens. KH (Carbonate Hardness), refers to the amount of carbonates (CO3) and bicarbonates (HCO3) in the water-and KH is generally in a direct relationship to GH because alkaline water (which is high in calcium) is also high in carbonates, as a result of calcium carbonate (CaCO3) dissolving into water (either from limestone, aragonite, coral/bihalve shells/skeletons, or eggshells); adding an acid directly interacts with the KH (CO3 &HCO3) and results in Carbon dioxide as the pH is lowered and the carbonate ions are destroyed-at the same time Calcium, Magnesium and other plants nutrients are made more available to the plant.
My tap water has a KH of 11.6 - 15.1 (putting it in line with water that is as hard as ocean water or inline with water from Lake Malawi or Tanganyika-the hardest in the world). However, because I acidify my water, I’m able to both provide ideal nutrient availability to my plants AND avoid problems related to calcium deficiency.
If what you are saying is accurate, then my seedlings (and other orchids and plants) would surely be suffering and show signs of struggle (like reduced growth rate, size, flower production)-but they don’t-and in fact, I actually have faster and more robust growth.
I just registered my first orchid hybrid this week; a plant I flowered in 1.5 years from seed. Most ppl take 3-5 years to get orchids to flower from seed. So, unless you have some direct evidence about RO being more beneficial, I’m very happy with my results and will continue using tap water which has been acidified.
Thanks for your comment!
What are you planning to do with all these seedlings?
Sell/Trade/Grow - haha. I intend to keep a few for me and grow them up to flowering size. Some I'll trade with local growers or sell them. The Canadian orchid group on facebook has a lot of people who keep/trade plants, so I'll likely manage the distribution through that (Orchid Lovers & Growers of Canada)
Love your channel you just got a new sub:)
Thanks FREDDY!
Nice video!
Your kitty *is* cute :)
Thats not how It's works. I don't recomend using ph downs. I recomend using a RO filter. It takes out nearly everything from water witch means even KH. If water have low KH you don't need harsh acid to lower the ph. I simply use ro water on my orchids but If you want it to be more acidic than you can put some peat in it.
It is how it works and I do recommend it. By the way...do you know why peat works to lower the pH? Because it adds tannic acid-so technically by using peat, you're doing the exact same thing I'm doing...but using a different form of "pH Down". Cheers man - good luck with your plants!