My grandfather, William Carr, was the pilot of the DC-7. I knew Grandpa, a very experienced pilot, died in a Pacoima plane crash while flying for Douglas, but never knew the details surrounding the crash (grandma never really talked about it) until I began researching it several years ago (the CAB report is very thorough!). Your mini-documentary about the crash was very well done and I'm rather dismayed that TH-cam would demonetize it. FWIW, the actual radio transmissions from the DC-7 after the F-89 hit its left wing near Hanson Dam: Pilot Carr: "Uncontrollable." Copilot Twitchell: "We're in a midair collision - midair collision, 10 How (aircraft identification using phonetic How for H) we are going in -uncontrollable, uncontrollable - we are . . . we've had it boy - poor jet too - told you we should take chutes - say goodbye to everybody." Radio Operator Nakazawa: "We are spinning in the valley." At the time of the crash, speeches were being practiced in the auditorium, which were recorded. For those interested, the rather eerie audio recording of the DC-7 hitting the ground can be heard at russellbuchanan.wordpress.com/2011/09/18/pacoima-jr-high-school-airplane-crash-of-1957-audio/ .
Wow that recording is extremely eerie but I am very happy you uploaded it. I can only imagine the chaos. It sounds like shortly before the recording stopped one of the staff was starting to panic and yell into the mic.
Amazing story. Sounded very scary !. Like to hear or read more story's of your Grandfather. Was it your father who kept the recordings ?. By any chance would you be willing to share it Tommy over at Valley Relics Museum at Van Nuys Airport?
The pilots and crew who test these amazing aircraft are unsung heroes. I am sorry for the loss of your grandfather. I am grateful The History Guy did such a good job telling this story, which is part of your family history. God Bless.
Wow. Thanks for the link. We lived in Tujunga and heard about the crash that afternoon. A few years later they built Pacoima Lutheran Memorial Hospital as a result of the crash where it was clear that the area needed more emergency facilities to treat burn victims. My mom became head nurse there. Apparently the 1971 Sylmar Quake damaged it beyond repair and it was demolished. I believe it was in 1958 when my parents took us to Pacific Ocean Park where we saw Ritchie Valens play. It was common to hear sonic booms back in those days from tests out of Edwards AFB. Prayers for those affected by that day.....
My husband's father was Waldo Adams and I was thankful to be able to see your report and share it with our children and grandchildren. Thanks for your excellent coverage.
I'm currently a San Fernando City resident. A few of my elderly neighbors survived unharmed that day. The 2 things they always reminisce about is being Richie Valens classmate and the Pacoima Air Crash. Thank You for reporting this story History Guy.
Haven't thought about this for years. I was there that day in a classroom near the field, fortunately I was not injured. I remember my father coming to the school to get me and we walked home since we lived nearby. I remember walking through debris as we left the school grounds. Thanks, Good report.
Thank you for reminding us of the 1957 Pacoima Mid-Air Collision. I remember this well. My parents moved us out to Pacoima in 1957 and I was in the 5th grade when this happened. Fortunately the planes didn’t hit my school that was 3 miles away. But I totally understand Ritchie Valens fear of flying. He actually had a good reason for it because we had many very bad airplane accidents in Pacoima from a small private (non-tower controlled) airport in Pacoima called Whiteman Air Park. There were lots of rookie pilots always crashing out there during those years. It was an odd set up at Whiteman Air Port (by Ritchie’s house) where pilots had to get enough lift to clear the power lines located at the end of the runway, and far too many didn’t. So it often resulted in fatal crashes from pilots hitting power lines. I lived over the flight path when I was little and it scared me to death because our local news papers always showed us photos and reports of those local plane crashes by my house in Pacoima. It seemed like it happened a lot. This is part of the story people don’t seem to bring up. Ritchie Valens lived west of the airport, I lived on the east side of it. Our fear of planes falling out of the sky was real. It seemed we always had some weird plane crashes out in the north east San Fernando Valley. All the conditions seem right for aircraft accidents out there. We had plenty of high winds, poorly maintained private aircraft, with rookie pilots at the controls, who were full of money and ego and deficient in flying skills. They were not as good as they though they were. Thank you so much for this excellent presentation. GOOD JOB!
There was also another airport close by in the area, San Fernando. It's gone now, turned into industrial in 1985, but it was badly designed, so the pilot had to take off to the southwest and land to the northeast because of the mountains. At least that's what I was told when I was learning to fly in 1980, so I never flew there. Whiteman Airpark is still there, but it has a working tower now.
We lived in Tujunga and heard about the crash that afternoon. Apparently it showed that there were not enough emergency facilities in the area and burn units were very few. They built Pacoima Lutheran Memorial Hospital near by a few years later and my mom became Head Nurse there. You no doubt remember February 9, 1971 pre dawn.... The Sylmar Quake. It affected my life to this very day. The hospital was damaged badly and was torn down. One day in 1975 my dad was acting weirdly and dragged me to Whiteman Airport. I knew something was up so I stopped asking questions. A Cessna 150 taxied up and shut down in front of us. My dad's old friend was in the passenger seat. My brother was flying it! They kept his flying lessons a secret from me all that time, easily done since I was living in San Luis Obispo and attending Cal Poly.. What a shock. Here's a guy who can't tie his shoes or ride a bike FLYING! I should have been the family pilot! Airplanes were my thing and my brother was never interested. He still lives in the same house we grew up in but I chose NorCal. He got about 80 hours of flying then quit...thank goodness. They were building the 210 freeway during the Sylmar quake and CHIPs was filmed on the closed sections of it. Part of it collapsed and a guy driving an Earth mover crashed into a rest home after having a heart attack. Several people were killed. I rode my motorcycle through the debris to check on friends living in San Fernando and Pacoima. Our high school was wrecked.
Did have similarities of the 1986 Cerritos Air crash in a residential neighborhood, it was almost to the 30 year aniversary of 1957 crash only by four months.
Thanks again History Guy! Valuable, informative, and touching. At 9:18 the mother said, "I didn't even kiss him goodbye this morning". I know how she feels, when we lost our 16 year old son one of the overwhelming emotions I felt that day was: I don't remember the last time I hugged him. Please, hug your children and tell them you love them, especially if they don't deserve it.
I used to watch “La Bamba”, with Lou Diamond Phillips, all the time as a kid. I remember his haunting nightmare scenes, with “Sleep Walk” playing... I never knew it was about this incident. Thanks for sharing.
As a 7th grader, I was on the playground at Robert Fulton Jr. High in Van Nuys, on that day of the mid-air collision. I heard the collision and turned to the Northeast; I can still see the plume of black smoke as it made its way toward the ground. Thank you for filling in the blanks about that tragic day. It could have just as easily occurred over my school.
I'm now 70 and saw the planes collide in midair when I was 5. PJHS was about a mile from our home. I still remember walking to PJHS and seeing airplane parts scattered about the athletic field at Pacoima Junior High School.
My father was an Air Force pilot of that era, flying f-80 shooting stars, f-86 sabres and f-94 starfires (the 94's also being all weather interceptors). I'm not sure if he ever flew the f-89's. About 10 years ago he finally told me of several times he almost bought it during his time flying, including one near miss mid air collision. Like with so many of these tragedies, there were a series of factors that contributed to the situation. Thankfully the ground crew saved the day. Thanks for the detailed video.
i’m a Pacoima native, i’ve known this story my entire life. i’ve heard it a million times but never with this much detail. thank you for the deep dive 🙏🏾
I've known about this all my life, my father worked for Pan Am and talked about the day a Northrop Scorpion took the wing off a Douglas aircraft. I think he was in California and was hearing about while it was happening. He said they were telling the controllers to tell their families Goodbye. I have a commercial pilots license now myself, my first flight instructor died in a plane crash, my flight examiner who gave me all my ratings died in a plane crash, and the first person to give me a job flying died in a plane crash. I don't fly anymore.
@ Your question evidences your lack of intellectual capacity. One may ask also , How will YOU prevent yourself from Dying? The answer is we cannot. We are not in charge. One has to accept Fate, be it good or bad. I started flying lessons when I was 13, and qualified for a PPL just before my 16th Birthday anniversary. Now son=me six decades later I don't fly any more, firstly because my eyesight is below minimum requirement and secondly, even after serving in the Military for 18 years and having rounds miss me by a few feet .. And they crack like a whip as they fly by.... One becomes aware of ones own mortality as one ages. Nevertheless, I am not afraid of death. I have been practicing for it for a long time ...
pauline2272 yes I also was in a plane crash as a passenger but was luckily a survivor... I still fly in commercial flights if I can't drive to my destination but it scares me 😳
Having had a grammar school education and a history teacher whose idea of teaching was to write text on a black board from a jotter that he had been using since before I was born and told to copy it. This was the same text he had used since the school had opened and simply repeated year on year lesson by lesson. You don't need much imagination to realise I dropped history as a subject as soon as I possibly could. The teacher concerned, and I won't name him even though he is long since in his grave had a PhD in history but absolutely no interest in teaching it. I found your channel only recently and weep at some of the episodes you present. You are to the point with enough background to explain and an obvious enthusiasm for the subject that all teachers should take serious note of. I now have far more years behind me, my history, than I do in the future but there are still lessons to be learnt from the mishaps and adventures of our ancestors. One topic that has recently begun to interest me is the Scottish Highland Clearances. So many people from the area where I now live were forcefully removed from their homes and the land and often transported to the USA and Canada under horrific conditions. There must be dozens of first hand stories to be found from the ancestors of those that survived and thrived. Please keep up the good work, if only I had had a teacher like you 50 years ago. I thank you.
C P: If you're not hearing about Scottish history in Gaelic, not English, you're not getting the real story. Bay-an-uck-let, blessings on you from paternal Clan Watt and maternal Clan Hay.
@J Smith The last time I looked the Scots were white as were their landlords and most of the landlords were also Scottish so it was more a case of have and have nots. It also seems that many of those that were ousted from their meagre crofts ended up in positions of power in foreign lands. In fact the BLM have tried and sometimes succeeded in wiping those Scots who actually built much of the modern world from history. Discrimination is wrong regardless of who is the perpetrator and who is the victim and regardless of colour or creed or sex. And the worst discrimination of all is the so called positive discrimination where an individuals life is judged not on their abilities but on some arbitrary genetic variation.
My father told me he was one of the kids at that school. He mentioned it when we were watching La Bamba (shortly after it first came out on VHS), right after that dream sequence. I got the feeling it impacted him deeply, from the way he reacted. He had been enjoying the movie up to that point, but suddenly got very pale and quiet, edging into anger. He only ever mentioned it the once, and I got the feeling he wouldn't appreciate questions, so didn't ask any. He never watched that movie again, that I know of.
I was about to enter the school yard at Sutter Jr. Hi. When my attention was drawn to the sky and the immediate aftermath of the collision. Years later I worked at the Sepulveda VA hospital with Mike Sullivan who was on the sports field at Pacoima when the debris began to fall. Your father may remember him.
I remember seeing the parachute coming down in a clear sky over east Burbank after the crash - from John Burroughs High in Burbank. Some students who had cars were ditching to go see where he landed, which looked like it would have been a couple of miles away. Thanks for the memory jog!
A guy I knew, Ralph Woolsey, was a teacher at the USC Cinema Dept. and beginning a career as Cinematographer on TV shows. They were shooting exteriors that day, and had to do a retake because of a bright flash in the sky. It was later surmised that it was this crash. They found their shooting site, enlarged the frame and were able to determine where the camera was set.. The math guys got busy and this helped them pin-loint the location of the actual crash in the air, so they could calculate how the wreckage had dispersed.
Yes- that accidental shot was used to help pinpoint the location of the collision, although it was too distant to discern details of the planes' movement.
I grew up in the San Fernando Valley, even living in the city next to Pacoima in the '70's, and this is the first time I can recall hearing about this crash. Thank you.
Mid-air collisions are a pilot's worst nightmare. I was once en-route to Savanna Georgia in my puny Cessna 185 at 12,000 ft when ATC called to say they were painting a target 12 o'clock high, one mile ahead of me...basically head on. I strained and didn't see a thing...seconds later, a twin Beachcraft passed just BELOW me while I was looking upward, so close I could read the octane rating around the fuel caps on his upper wing when I glanced at his passing...so I can relate. The sky is big, really big, be we still manage to run into each other on occasion. Good story!
I came across this story several months ago while researching the Valens plane crash. I do love history, especially aircraft history. Many people think history is boring because they were taught in black and white. Thanks for bringing so much color to our past. The 1957 Pacoima incident resulted in more than $10 million in law suits. Thanks again for what you do History Guy.
As a former air traffic controller I have always been fascinated by air accidents and their numerous causes. I had never heard of this accident; thanks for telling us about it! I've only watched a couple of your videos, but they are excellent and I will definitely keep tuning in!
I was a little kid visiting my Aunt and Uncle who lived on Garber Street in Pacoima, when this crash happened. Laurel Canyon Blvd., where the crash occurred, was about a mile and a half away. There was a smoke plume in the distance, but everybody in the neighborhood assumed it was an explosion of some sort. Had absolutely no idea that this was the event that traumatized Richie Valens. Thanks History Guy, you've done it again.
I remember that day very well. I was at Pinewood Elementary School in Tujunga when our teacher, Mrs. Armand came out of the classroom and ushered us all back into our class. I remember her and another teacher, Mrs. Henderson talking about the junior high school plane crash. Even then, bad news traveled fast. Funny how a kid can remember such things but our teacher was worried and ushered us in like a mother hen. She was a kind teacher and will always remember the worry on her face at that moment. I can't believe it has been 61 years.
HG, When I listen to your stories, it feels like I'm listening to the voice of History itself. I believe if you continue to create these marvelously informative videos, your popularity will grow very rapidly.
I developed an interest in air disasters after watching an episode of "Mayday" or one of its other names. I ended up watching almost all of them, and I remember this crash from those documentaries very well. I do not remember anyone mentioning the connection between this crash and the one that Ritchie Valens was involved in, so I just wanted to say thanks for telling the story again, as well as the extra information that I may have otherwise never knew. I'll be sharing this information in my conversations about these air disasters.
I grew up in the 60s in Pacoima and my dad used to drive us over to the crash site a few years after it happened, amazing you found this and the entire report. Nice work
Well done. It’s almost like living at that time. The fact that Valens was terrified to fly because of this makes American Pie all the more meaningful from an American cultural point of view. I’m 56 and never realized this. You have yet again, opened my eyes to our collective history. This is the value of what you do. Thanks, as always.
I saw 'La Bamba' when it came out in the theater, and about 10 years later, was a substitute teacher, who subbed a few times at Pacoima Junior High among several other schools in the east San Fernando Valley, but I never knew the connection of the dream sequence and that school until now! Thanks for the lesson!
god bless him. my stepdad passed away early 2015- he was a general dynamics rocket engineer. he was fascinated by his computer and was online alot at age 86. OMG would he have loved curiosity stream... he loved German stuff (he was british?) and would be driving an infiniti if he were alive today. he would have loved that German guy at the test track! my real dad died in '97 right when he was starting to become computer literate. buy your dad a drink or do something nice for him cause I can't do that anymore. l lost my mom in February. So I have a house full of all their stuff (no clothes) and a dog and a cat. hope your dad keeps on truckin...
I was born in 1959 and we lived in Pacoima. My parents lived there during the time of the crash. I remember my dad showing me the schoolyard and telling me about this plane crash as a young child. He said not only were there deaths, but many of the children sustained horrible injuries like lost arms and legs. Very tragic.
In January 1957 I was an almost 14 year old kid growing up in San Gabriel, about 25 miles away. I must have heard the news but watching this very well presented history recap did not evoke any recollection at all. Strange. Thank you History Guy, your stuff is simply great.
I was awestruck by this video. This is the first I've heard of this story. PSA Flight 182 collision over San Diego on September 25, 1978 comes to mind.
History Guy: I love your site and stories. I really love how the general population in the comments sections add their own remembrances of the events you review. Thanks so much!!!!! This is the best!!!!!!!! And, thanks TH-camrs who add the additional information.
This happened right above me as I was standing in line for lunch at Vinedale Elementary School in La Tuna Canyon, Sun Valley, CA. I was about 10 years old and I have never forgotten it.
I realky appreciate your videos. Refreshing, no click bait, just juicy morsels of the past. And you learn more about the period of any particular video with all the the details you provide. Thank you history guy.
I was about six weeks old at the time that happened, but years later my mom told me about it. I asked my brother about it one time, and he said that he saw the DC-7 going down right before it hit the schoolyard.
On that day I was in grade school in La Crescenta and while on the playground did observe both the jet going and the guy in the parachute. I will always remember that sight. RIP to all who passed.
I was a student at Northridge Junior High School in 1957. Our school took in students from Pacoima Junior High at the time. We heard descriptions of the crash first hand from the survivors. Thank you for posting this video.
You should do more videos on airplane crashes. Most out there are long documentaries and your presentation is amazing. I really enjoy being able to watch many short clips at night before bed instead of being stuck with one 45-60 min video on one thing in the past.
Brother was on the field and injured . I was right next door at Terra Bella Elementary and witnessed it all. Our home was a major crime scene as the gym field fence was our property line fence , again, right next door. Remember that day like it was last week. Thanks for posting this.
I remember vividly in Sept 1978, a small plane collided with a PSA 727 over San Diego, killing 144 people ,including I believe 9 on the ground.After that accident I always felt a twinge of anxiety whenever I boarded a plane.
There are further links in this chain. Eddie Cochran was friends with Buddy Holly, the Big Bopper and of course Richie Valens. Their deaths effected him so badly he stopped touring as he had developed a morbid premonition that he also would die young. However because of financial responsibilities he was required that he continue to perform live, and that led to his acceptance of an offer to tour the United Kingdom in 1960. On Saturday 16 April just before midnight he was involved in a traffic accident. Cochran died of his injuries in hospital four hours later, they others in the car all surviving, though others were injured including Gene Vincent and Cochran's fiancée Sharon Sheeley. As a couple of follow ups, after the accident the car and other items from the crash were impounded at the local police station until a coroner's inquest could be held. A police cadet at the station, David Harman, taught himself to play guitar on Cochran's impounded Gretsch. He would later become known as Dave Dee of the band Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick & Tich. Two of their songs sold over one million copies each. Gene Vincent tour the UK again in 1961 and moved to the UK in 1963. When touring the UK in 1963 one member of the backing band was Ritchie Blackmore who, in 1968, would be a founding member of Deep Purple.
Surprisingly, it is little known that Dion and the Belmonts were also on that tour. Dion was going to fly out with Buddy and the Bopper, but he gave up his ticket to Richie Valens. Richie had a rough time, because being from California, he could not stand the bitter cold. The planes pilot was very young and not licensed for instrument flying. Btw, I don’t think that Eddie Cochran was on that tour initially, he probably joined up after the crash. Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich , too bad they did not make it in the US, they were too British. Have all their records.
Sleep walk still about brings me to tears because of that movie, La Bamba. When his brother calls out "Richie!!", it still gives me chills. Watched that movie in the theaters when I was about 7-8. Thank you for the history, we are better for it.
Well done mini-documentary, however, I have two small mistakes to point out. The larger one is that Pacoima is and always has been a municipality of the City of Los Angeles, unlike Palmdale and Burbank, which are self-governed cities. The second, related error is that William Parker was the of the Police Chief of the City of Los Angeles. I attended the school from 1972 to 1976 and the memory of this crash and the death of our most beloved alum, Ritchie Valens, was still quite fresh in our minds. Every time I see a video about the crash it brings back sad yet nostalgic memories of a time and place that once existed.
Torsten, I agree with you completely on both of your points. The only cities that are not a part of the City of Los Angeles in the San Fernando Valley are, San Fernando, Burbank, Glendale, and Hidden Hills. Parts of Calabasas are in the City of Los Angeles and parts are their own separate city.
Thanks @torsten for clearing up the William Parker question I had while watching the video ... I was wondering if it's the same Parker as "Parker Center," and now I assume it was.
@@josephgaviota The Old LAPD Administration Building that Opened in 1955 & Shut Down by 2009 on Los Angeles Street, in Downtown L.A. & T.V. & Movie Shows Like Perry Mason, Burke's Law, Hunter, Police Woman & Police Story, The Closer, Dragnet, & Too Many Cop Shows & Movies were Filmed There, or the Exteriors of Parker Center were Used in those Shows! When No Nonsense LAPD Chief Bill Parker Suddenly Died of a Heart Attack at a Function at a Now Defunct Hotel in Downtown L.A.(that's Now the Site of the Current 73 Story Korean Air Hotel Tower) in 1966, the L.A. City Council Decided to Rename the LAPD Police Adminstration Building on Los Angeles St. After The Late Chief William (Bill) Parker, as... "Parker Center". Today the Remains of the Old Parker Center are Being Torn Down By the City Of L.A. in a Very Expensive Demolition, as well as Timely Process to Dismantle Parker Center, Cause of Issues & it Being Next Door to the City's 911 Dispatch Center & Hazardous Building Materials Today that are Cancerous to the Public! The Old Parker Center Will be Replaced by a 27 Story L.A. City Hall Expansion Annex that will Open Next Decade!
Great channel . Great content with in-depth explanations of facts . No speculation . No distracting music . You sir are more valuable than the history channel itself . By far .
Very interesting. Of course, many of us know about 'the day the music died', but this connection is one I had never heard of before. Today, flight at 25,000', or Flight Level 250 is Instrument Flight Regulations, or IFR instead of Visual Flight Regulations, VFR. Above 18,000' in the U.S. requires a radar transponder and contact with an Air Traffic Control center. Something like this shouldn't happen today because everyone should be under positive radar control at the altitudes they were flying then. A further part is that military aircraft now operate inside an Military Operating Area, or MOA, and if the MOA is active, or 'hot' a controller will inform you, and you probably will not be allowed inside of it.
I hold a Private Pilot's License, but I am not current, and my medical has lapsed. I do not know if I could get another medical certificate, although if I had to financial wherewithal to return to flying, I'd be doing everything I could to get one. :D
Jerry, I will agree that Google is a very good resource for many things, but I love aviation and everything about it, so I knew this information because of that. Thank you both for your comments.
Gary C I would have my license if I could afford it. I'm looking to go all the way from single engine aircraft to multi engine turboprop and jet engine aircraft. Eventually I want to move on to rotary aircraft so I can fly transport helicopters for the Marines
I witnessed the debris coming down on the schoolyard from my front lawn. I later attended Pacoima Junior High but only learned about Valens years later. He wasn’t mentioned while I was there.
Wow! I remember this as if it was yesterday. I was only 8 or 9 at the time and was in an elementary school less than 2 miles away. The windows of our room faced the direction of the crash. When the plane impacted the ground it was so loud the room shook and we all looked out the window to see a huge ball of black smoke rising up. Very scary moment for us and the teacher. The next day of school, one of the kids brought a piece of wreckage into class. We all thought it was pretty cool. I had no idea Ritchie Valens went to that school but remember the scene in the movie.
I was 13 years old when this happened and lived in Los Angeles. Pacoima is a suburb. I have vivid memories of reading about the pilot waving his left arm out of the left side sliding window to get out of the way. I didn't know about Rudy Vallance, but do remember his crash as well. As a commercially rated pilot I have read the accident report and could not believe the pilot was actually willing to fly. I'm instrument rated and would NEVER have taken off in the weather they had.
Excellent, as usual! I had never heard of this crash, but even your videos that cover subjects I have heard of always present me with details I had never heard of before. Still binge-watching, but have most of your videos watched now and not a single one of them has failed to please. I love your delivery as well as the amount of info you can pack into so short a span.
I click even if I feel I am thoroughly familiar with your chosen subject. You always leave at least a couple 'biscuits', it is fun to learn something new about a story that interested you YEARS ago. Thank you Mr. Guy!
I actually first learned about this crash from listening to the Radio Classics channel on Sirius radio. They played a radio show from, I think CBS that was from around the time of the crash. It had interviews from some survivors and witnesses. I haven't Googled it so I can't remember the title or the year. I said all that to say I love this channel. I like the format and the subjects you cover on here. Thank you for the work you put into these videos, and I hope you make many more since I'm running out of your videos. I've watched almost all of them and have now started rationing the remaining ones. I eagerly await more.
Manuel Ortiz Guys, don't waste bandwidth commenting on the spam. It's auto generated, there is no human behind these comments (and certainly no "Jennifer"... more likely a fat spammer with bad breath named Brad, still living in his mom's basement...). Just report the comments as spam and ignore them, they will eventually be removed by TH-cam, and then only your comments will remain as residue, out of context. Thanks!
Dsdcain I concur with all you said. My beloved TH-cam, ( I've had two channels for 11years now) has been disappointing me as of late with Dem Liberal bias, and censuring,) however I woke up stiff necked and groggy from the lazy boy chair, just trying to get to the bedroom and real sleep. I look at my phone one last time and behold a notification of this vid and am instantly drawn to this. I am a war history buff loving air war stuff. Author of a book "Up there by me Terry Allan. I remember this story and it's fascinating. Like you I will check out all these vids. What a great channel to wake up to and subscribe to as well. Good night. Have a good one. Tman!........
what a fascinating story! I really enjoyed it! And I don't think that you speak too quickly. Your pace indicates to me the enthusiasm about your subject. BRAVO! I'll be back!
As an aviation enthusiast who grew up in Southern California, I was surprised to learn about this significant incident from your channel! Thank you! I spent considerable time yesterday performing further research online, finding out details of the crews and children who were killed, the subsequent life of the radar operator that survived. Even found a recording that was made in the auditorium of the school, during a presentation to students, in which you can hear the plane coming down and exploding. Very moving accounts of the tragedy by survivors and witnesses. Another significant area air-to-air disaster between military and civilian aircraft occurred over the San Gabriel mountains near Duarte in 1971.
It's been a few years, but yes. Flew in there in a helicopter a couple times when my brother was building time flying out of Van Nuys. I grew up in Chino area, about a 30 minute bicycle ride to the airport there...hung out there as a kid. Now I live in Santa Paula and we have a great little airport here. A short drive to Camarillo which hosts a chapter of the CAF and lots of warbirds.
I loved the History Channel and could be entertained for a long time. You are in the same vein. Yours are concise, short and fascinating. Good work. Looking forward to more of your sterling history accounts.
Pacoima is my home city. My aunts and uncles have told me stories of how they were at San Fernando High School, out on the field, and they heard it. They are about 2 miles apart, down Laurel Cyn Blvd. Once they got word what happened, most left school and went straight to Pacoima Jr High. I attending Pacoima Jr High from 85 to 88, and they have a memorial on the field and painted on one of the buildings, with the names of the kids who lost their lives. There is an apartment building next door to the field, and houses across the street, and it's been said that you can hear kids playing basketball in the middle of the night.
I've read a book called Ritchie Valens, the first Latino Rocker. It talks quite a bit about Ritchie's time at the school, and there was a picture of a mural at Pacoima JR high featuring Ritchie. There is also a so-so quality recording from some years back called Ritchie Valens Live at Pacoima Jr High.
It's amazing how much history there is surrounding us that most of us (or at least a lot of us) have never heard about many of these events. Keep it up History Guy. We love your work!!
i really appreciate your mission statement, history that deserves to be remembered. my father told me a story of a midair collision over san diego when he was a child. in 1942 or thereabouts a plane crashed into a house in their neighborhood killing a mother and child. it had taken off from the runway at the consolidated aircraft factory or perhaps ryan aeronautical. it possibly collided with another aircraft and fell to the ground in linda vista very close to the school my father was attending and a street away from where he lived. he is 86 and his memory is a bit hazy but i thought the story deserved remembering, perhaps you are aware of this accident. keep up the great work!
I've heard about this a couple times. However for whatever reason all past times I've heard about this the incident that happened on the ground was always omitted. Thank you for providing a more complete picture.
1) It appears the jet was initially pointing away from the DC-7, until it turned towards it. Radar only sees ahead of the aircraft. 2) Even if they did get a target, their radar model may not have been able to determine its relative altitude. It could've been 10,000 feet below them, for all they knew. For instance, modern air traffic control radars can only display an aircraft's altitude if the aircraft has a Mode C transponder on board that tells the radar its altitude. If there's no working transponder aboard the plane, ATC only gets its location and speed, but not its altitude.
Doug Mcdonell according to the CAB report, the equipment was being tested in “lock on,” which focused on a single target to the exclusion of all others. Douglas released a statement saying that it was impossible for the F-89s radar to see the DC-9.
Another aircraft crash that occured in Pacoima, as well that many may not know about, occured at the intersection of Haddon and Montague streets on February 2, 1965. This one involved actor Ken Osmond, (Eddie Haskell from the "Leave it to Beaver" TV series), when their Bell-47 helicopter ran out of fuel, due to a mechanical malfunction. Read Ken Osmond's autobiography titled "Eddie" from 2014, where he details this crash in chapter 14 of his book. I also grew up in the San Fernando Valley. History Guy: You did a great presentation here of the 1957 crash!!
Another great piece of lost history. If I didn’t know better, I would have thought I was hearing a newscaster on the 5 o’clock news. Please keep up these wonderful segments of lost history. I open my iPad daily looking to see if there is a new one.
So enjoy your channel Sir 👍 My oldest of three son's has just started college and His major is history. His plan is to receive his bachelor degree in history before he goes to the USAF. We're very proud of him and he obviously loves your channel. But he adds another hour to each subject you share. As we know you would as well if you had the time to do so. Thanks for giving me and many others something must more honest and classy than 99% of what is TH-cam. Byron from Salisbury N.C.
I never liked hearing the last words of the pilots. I guess the insight it gives you into what they may have been thinking as they are helpless to avoid their deaths. Still though, at the same time, I find myself listening to gain a better understanding of how they have dealt with the inevitable. Always eerie. Some are frightened, some have accepted their fate, others are too preoccupied and their training has taken over as they try to correct the issue. Never the less, it's always the worst when the incident was completely out of the pilot's control...
I'm with you, there are videos on TH-cam that are collections of last words in crashes, I find it voyeuristic at best and creepy in general, indicative of a poorly developed mind or morality. "Faces of Death" in the 80s is similar.
Odd.. I've seen La Bamba countless times, but always thought the dream sequence was just the writers taking liberties with "artistic expression". I never realized it was an actual event. Excellent video(s)!!!
I was eight years old living in Granada Hills. My parents went to the school. I remember seeing the engine in the school yard. You brought back and old memory.
When I saw "La Bamba" I just thought it was a premonition, nothing more. I don't think I have ever heard that - and it wasn't spelled out at all to my recollection. Man, thanks, very cool!
Fantastic video. Thank you. This has quickly become my favorite channel. Your videos are extremely well narrated, short enough to hold my attention, yet informative enough that I learn something new from each of them. Definitely worth remembering.
Javier 86 All his work is excellent, so I can't agree this is his "best". He's so very good that it would be tough to narrow down his best 10...or 3, not to mention 1.
Nice to see a Navy Chief Petty Officer's hat behind you there! Retired Navy Master Chief Petty Officer here. Recently found your channel and am enjoying all of the content.
History Guy - Great video!! Never saw your channel before but ran into it head-on while surfing TH-cam this morning. Just checked out your videos available and am afraid I'm hooked. Will see you often, keep up the great work, and thanks for the video.
I rarely comment on videos, or anything else as I dont do "social media" so I hope this helps. This is the best channel on more than TH-cam, this may very well be the best, most useful, wholesome, educational and yes, entertaining content on all of the internet. I'm a 48 year old with no formal ed past high school but very worldly and well rounded anyway. Thank you History Guy, they should have you in schools everywhere
This happened less than a year after two passenger planes collided into each other over the Grand Canyon... Planes were just crashing into one another all over the place back in the 50's!
we still have the occasional mid air collision in modern times too, not even TCAS, more advanced ATC radars or even onboard radars have been able to completely eliminate planes crashing into each other
@@billfitzpatrick6910 In spite of the vastly increased number of aircraft in the air and vastly increased mileage, the last time there was a collision involving a commercial aircraft was in Sept of 2015 over Senegal, and before that the last was in Sept of 2006 over Brazil. On the other hand, in June of 1956 there was the Grand Canyon disaster, in January of '57 there was the Pacoima collision, in April of '58 a United DC-7 collided with an F-100 near Las Vegas, in Oct '58 a BEA Vickers Viscount collided with an Italian F-86 over Italy, in Feb '60 over Brazil, a US Navy R6D-1 transport collided with a Brazilian commercial DC-3, in Dec '60, over New York a United DC-8 and TWA Constellation collided. Air crashes ARE deadlier today, because airplanes carry a lot more people, and accidents due to malfunction and pilot error happen more, chiefly because there are so many more aircraft flying so many more miles, but commercial aviation collisions are much rarer.
So interesting!! I always thought the dream sequence in La Bamba was just some made up thing to make Ritchie's death more spectacular. Thanks for such a great mini-doc!!
To my recollection the Producer of the film lived in or around Pacoima at the time. His recollection and filming of that seen as exactly how I remembered seeing it.
I remember this accident but very little of the details you provide. It happened a few months before or after the Grand Canyon accident between a United DC-7 and a TWA Constellation which had both taken off a few minutes apart from Los Angeles and followed flight tracks which converged several hundred miles later. The United plane was flying at a different altitude from what had been given for various reasons which brought the two together under cloud conditions such that the overtaking United may not have seen the TWA until the last moments in uncontrolled (see and avoid) high altitude air space. This accident brought about the formation of the Federal Aviation Administration and Positive Control air space.
The Grand Canyon collision happened in 1956 before this one. Lots of changes took place after it as you mentioned. This accident in the schoolyard probably contributed to the changes also.
I enjoy and appreciate it all, as I'm sure even the people you mention that made the history would appreciate it and the fact you didn't forget them. They are worth mentioning and deserve to be remembered. Thanks again, History Guy.
My grandfather, William Carr, was the pilot of the DC-7. I knew Grandpa, a very experienced pilot, died in a Pacoima plane crash while flying for Douglas, but never knew the details surrounding the crash (grandma never really talked about it) until I began researching it several years ago (the CAB report is very thorough!). Your mini-documentary about the crash was very well done and I'm rather dismayed that TH-cam would demonetize it.
FWIW, the actual radio transmissions from the DC-7 after the F-89 hit its left wing near Hanson Dam:
Pilot Carr: "Uncontrollable."
Copilot Twitchell: "We're in a midair collision - midair collision, 10 How (aircraft identification using phonetic How for H) we are going in -uncontrollable, uncontrollable - we are . . . we've had it boy - poor jet too - told you we should take chutes - say goodbye to everybody."
Radio Operator Nakazawa: "We are spinning in the valley."
At the time of the crash, speeches were being practiced in the auditorium, which were recorded. For those interested, the rather eerie audio recording of the DC-7 hitting the ground can be heard at
russellbuchanan.wordpress.com/2011/09/18/pacoima-jr-high-school-airplane-crash-of-1957-audio/ .
Wow that recording is extremely eerie but I am very happy you uploaded it. I can only imagine the chaos. It sounds like shortly before the recording stopped one of the staff was starting to panic and yell into the mic.
Haunting.
Appreciate the link.
Amazing story. Sounded very scary !. Like to hear or read more story's of your Grandfather. Was it your father who kept the recordings ?. By any chance would you be willing to share it Tommy over at Valley Relics Museum at Van Nuys Airport?
The pilots and crew who test these amazing aircraft are unsung heroes.
I am sorry for the loss of your grandfather.
I am grateful The History Guy did such a good job telling this story, which is part of your family history.
God Bless.
Wow. Thanks for the link. We lived in Tujunga and heard about the crash that afternoon. A few years later they built Pacoima Lutheran Memorial Hospital as a result of the crash where it was clear that the area needed more emergency facilities to treat burn victims. My mom became head nurse there. Apparently the 1971 Sylmar Quake damaged it beyond repair and it was demolished. I believe it was in 1958 when my parents took us to Pacific Ocean Park where we saw Ritchie Valens play. It was common to hear sonic booms back in those days from tests out of Edwards AFB. Prayers for those affected by that day.....
My husband's father was Waldo Adams and I was thankful to be able to see your report and share it with our children and grandchildren. Thanks for your excellent coverage.
I'm currently a San Fernando City resident. A few of my elderly neighbors survived unharmed that day. The 2 things they always reminisce about is being Richie Valens classmate and the Pacoima Air Crash. Thank You for reporting this story History Guy.
Haven't thought about this for years. I was there that day in a classroom near the field, fortunately I was not injured. I remember my father coming to the school to get me and we walked home since we lived nearby. I remember walking through debris as we left the school grounds. Thanks, Good report.
Thank you for reminding us of the 1957 Pacoima Mid-Air Collision. I remember this well. My parents moved us out to Pacoima in 1957 and I was in the 5th grade when this happened. Fortunately the planes didn’t hit my school that was 3 miles away. But I totally understand Ritchie Valens fear of flying. He actually had a good reason for it because we had many very bad airplane accidents in Pacoima from a small private (non-tower controlled) airport in Pacoima called Whiteman Air Park. There were lots of rookie pilots always crashing out there during those years. It was an odd set up at Whiteman Air Port (by Ritchie’s house) where pilots had to get enough lift to clear the power lines located at the end of the runway, and far too many didn’t. So it often resulted in fatal crashes from pilots hitting power lines. I lived over the flight path when I was little and it scared me to death because our local news papers always showed us photos and reports of those local plane crashes by my house in Pacoima. It seemed like it happened a lot. This is part of the story people don’t seem to bring up. Ritchie Valens lived west of the airport, I lived on the east side of it. Our fear of planes falling out of the sky was real. It seemed we always had some weird plane crashes out in the north east San Fernando Valley. All the conditions seem right for aircraft accidents out there. We had plenty of high winds, poorly maintained private aircraft, with rookie pilots at the controls, who were full of money and ego and deficient in flying skills. They were not as good as they though they were. Thank you so much for this excellent presentation. GOOD JOB!
There was also another airport close by in the area, San Fernando. It's gone now, turned into industrial in 1985, but it was badly designed, so the pilot had to take off to the southwest and land to the northeast because of the mountains. At least that's what I was told when I was learning to fly in 1980, so I never flew there. Whiteman Airpark is still there, but it has a working tower now.
We lived in Tujunga and heard about the crash that afternoon. Apparently it showed that there were not enough emergency facilities in the area and burn units were very few. They built Pacoima Lutheran Memorial Hospital near by a few years later and my mom became Head Nurse there. You no doubt remember February 9, 1971 pre dawn.... The Sylmar Quake. It affected my life to this very day. The hospital was damaged badly and was torn down.
One day in 1975 my dad was acting weirdly and dragged me to Whiteman Airport. I knew something was up so I stopped asking questions. A Cessna 150 taxied up and shut down in front of us. My dad's old friend was in the passenger seat. My brother was flying it! They kept his flying lessons a secret from me all that time, easily done since I was living in San Luis Obispo and attending Cal Poly.. What a shock. Here's a guy who can't tie his shoes or ride a bike FLYING! I should have been the family pilot! Airplanes were my thing and my brother was never interested. He still lives in the same house we grew up in but I chose NorCal. He got about 80 hours of flying then quit...thank goodness.
They were building the 210 freeway during the Sylmar quake and CHIPs was filmed on the closed sections of it. Part of it collapsed and a guy driving an Earth mover crashed into a rest home after having a heart attack. Several people were killed. I rode my motorcycle through the debris to check on friends living in San Fernando and Pacoima. Our high school was wrecked.
Sucks because till this day they hit power lines at whiteman airport
Did have similarities of the 1986 Cerritos Air crash in a residential neighborhood, it was almost to the 30 year aniversary of 1957 crash only by four months.
Thanks again History Guy! Valuable, informative, and touching. At 9:18 the mother said, "I didn't even kiss him goodbye this morning". I know how she feels, when we lost our 16 year old son one of the overwhelming emotions I felt that day was: I don't remember the last time I hugged him. Please, hug your children and tell them you love them, especially if they don't deserve it.
"We've had it boy.... Say goodbye to everybody." that's class man
I used to watch “La Bamba”, with Lou Diamond Phillips, all the time as a kid. I remember his haunting nightmare scenes, with “Sleep Walk” playing... I never knew it was about this incident. Thanks for sharing.
Wow! You watched the movie with Lou?? Is he a nice guy?
@@benlee7864 I walked right into that one! 😁
As a 7th grader, I was on the playground at Robert Fulton Jr. High in Van Nuys, on that day of the mid-air collision. I heard the collision and turned to the Northeast; I can still see the plume of black smoke as it made its way toward the ground.
Thank you for filling in the blanks about that tragic day. It could have just as easily occurred over my school.
I'm now 70 and saw the planes collide in midair when I was 5. PJHS was about a mile from our home. I still remember walking to PJHS and seeing airplane parts scattered about the athletic field at Pacoima Junior High School.
My father was an Air Force pilot of that era, flying f-80 shooting stars, f-86 sabres and f-94 starfires (the 94's also being all weather interceptors). I'm not sure if he ever flew the f-89's. About 10 years ago he finally told me of several times he almost bought it during his time flying, including one near miss mid air collision. Like with so many of these tragedies, there were a series of factors that contributed to the situation. Thankfully the ground crew saved the day. Thanks for the detailed video.
i’m a Pacoima native, i’ve known this story my entire life. i’ve heard it a million times but never with this much detail. thank you for the deep dive 🙏🏾
I've known about this all my life, my father worked for Pan Am and talked about the day a Northrop Scorpion took the wing off a Douglas aircraft. I think he was in California and was hearing about while it was happening. He said they were telling the controllers to tell their families Goodbye. I have a commercial pilots license now myself, my first flight instructor died in a plane crash, my flight examiner who gave me all my ratings died in a plane crash, and the first person to give me a job flying died in a plane crash. I don't fly anymore.
Scared?
so how will you avoid a plane crashing into you?
@
Your question evidences your lack of intellectual capacity.
One may ask also , How will YOU prevent yourself from Dying?
The answer is we cannot. We are not in charge.
One has to accept Fate, be it good or bad.
I started flying lessons when I was 13, and qualified for a PPL just before my 16th Birthday anniversary.
Now son=me six decades later I don't fly any more, firstly because my eyesight is below minimum requirement and secondly, even after serving in the Military for 18 years and having rounds miss me by a few feet .. And they crack like a whip as they fly by.... One becomes aware of ones own mortality as one ages.
Nevertheless, I am not afraid of death. I have been practicing for it for a long time ...
pauline2272 yes I also was in a plane crash as a passenger but was luckily a survivor... I still fly in commercial flights if I can't drive to my destination but it scares me 😳
Good call. You may have saved your own life.
Having had a grammar school education and a history teacher whose idea of teaching was to write text on a black board from a jotter that he had been using since before I was born and told to copy it. This was the same text he had used since the school had opened and simply repeated year on year lesson by lesson. You don't need much imagination to realise I dropped history as a subject as soon as I possibly could. The teacher concerned, and I won't name him even though he is long since in his grave had a PhD in history but absolutely no interest in teaching it.
I found your channel only recently and weep at some of the episodes you present. You are to the point with enough background to explain and an obvious enthusiasm for the subject that all teachers should take serious note of. I now have far more years behind me, my history, than I do in the future but there are still lessons to be learnt from the mishaps and adventures of our ancestors.
One topic that has recently begun to interest me is the Scottish Highland Clearances. So many people from the area where I now live were forcefully removed from their homes and the land and often transported to the USA and Canada under horrific conditions. There must be dozens of first hand stories to be found from the ancestors of those that survived and thrived.
Please keep up the good work, if only I had had a teacher like you 50 years ago. I thank you.
C P: If you're not hearing about Scottish history in Gaelic, not English, you're not getting the real story.
Bay-an-uck-let, blessings on you from paternal Clan Watt and maternal Clan Hay.
@J Smith The last time I looked the Scots were white as were their landlords and most of the landlords were also Scottish so it was more a case of have and have nots. It also seems that many of those that were ousted from their meagre crofts ended up in positions of power in foreign lands. In fact the BLM have tried and sometimes succeeded in wiping those Scots who actually built much of the modern world from history.
Discrimination is wrong regardless of who is the perpetrator and who is the victim and regardless of colour or creed or sex. And the worst discrimination of all is the so called positive discrimination where an individuals life is judged not on their abilities but on some arbitrary genetic variation.
My father told me he was one of the kids at that school. He mentioned it when we were watching La Bamba (shortly after it first came out on VHS), right after that dream sequence. I got the feeling it impacted him deeply, from the way he reacted. He had been enjoying the movie up to that point, but suddenly got very pale and quiet, edging into anger. He only ever mentioned it the once, and I got the feeling he wouldn't appreciate questions, so didn't ask any. He never watched that movie again, that I know of.
I'm no expert but PTSD comes to mind. It would have been a horrific encounter to endure, especially at that age.
Thank you for sharing. I hope your father, and others, are/were well afterwards.
I was about to enter the school yard at Sutter Jr. Hi. When my attention was drawn to the sky and the immediate aftermath of the collision. Years later I worked at the Sepulveda VA hospital with Mike Sullivan who was on the sports field at Pacoima when the debris began to fall. Your father may remember him.
Winter Gray
Winter Gray ominous.
I remember seeing the parachute coming down in a clear sky over east Burbank after the crash - from John Burroughs High in Burbank. Some students who had cars were ditching to go see where he landed, which looked like it would have been a couple of miles away. Thanks for the memory jog!
A guy I knew, Ralph Woolsey, was a teacher at the USC Cinema Dept. and beginning a career as Cinematographer on TV shows. They were shooting exteriors that day, and had to do a retake because of a bright flash in the sky. It was later surmised that it was this crash. They found their shooting site, enlarged the frame and were able to determine where the camera was set.. The math guys got busy and this helped them pin-loint the location of the actual crash in the air, so they could calculate how the wreckage had dispersed.
Yes- that accidental shot was used to help pinpoint the location of the collision, although it was too distant to discern details of the planes' movement.
I grew up in the San Fernando Valley, even living in the city next to Pacoima in the '70's, and this is the first time I can recall hearing about this crash. Thank you.
The GREAT 'San Fernando Valley"...Born in Burbank, raised in Van Nuys!......Loved it!...40's, 50's & 60's
Mid-air collisions are a pilot's worst nightmare. I was once en-route to Savanna Georgia in my puny Cessna 185 at 12,000 ft when ATC called to say they were painting a target 12 o'clock high, one mile ahead of me...basically head on. I strained and didn't see a thing...seconds later, a twin Beachcraft passed just BELOW me while I was looking upward, so close I could read the octane rating around the fuel caps on his upper wing when I glanced at his passing...so I can relate. The sky is big, really big, be we still manage to run into each other on occasion. Good story!
PUCKER!!!!!
!!!!~YIKES~!!!!
John Emerson l
I hope you had extra scivvies handy.!!! ! I wonder what ATC had told the Beachboy.
Now that close!!!
I'm glad you came through okay... but wow, close. too close.
Don’t be too discouraged about not being able to answer all the comments, just focus on your fantastic content!
It's practically impossible to reply to all comments. I prefer uploaders stick to content than appeasing the narcissism of commentors.
I will NEVER forget the sounds of the crash and the aircraft coming down into the school playground ...I was five years old
I recommend your channel all the time. It’s the perfect response to those who think history is boring or not important.
I came across this story several months ago while researching the Valens plane crash. I do love history, especially aircraft history. Many people think history is boring because they were taught in black and white. Thanks for bringing so much color to our past. The 1957 Pacoima incident resulted in more than $10 million in law suits. Thanks again for what you do History Guy.
I have not known of your channel very long, but not only do you teach us, you keep the mornoers of these. People alive. Thank you.
As a former air traffic controller I have always been fascinated by air accidents and their numerous causes. I had never heard of this accident; thanks for telling us about it! I've only watched a couple of your videos, but they are excellent and I will definitely keep tuning in!
I was a little kid visiting my Aunt and Uncle who lived on Garber Street in Pacoima, when this crash happened. Laurel Canyon Blvd., where the crash occurred, was about a mile and a half away. There was a smoke plume in the distance, but everybody in the neighborhood assumed it was an explosion of some sort. Had absolutely no idea that this was the event that traumatized Richie Valens. Thanks History Guy, you've done it again.
I love these 1st hand accountings! Did you ever go to the "Laurel" drive-in?
I Found Out in the Movie La Bamba that was Released in 87, cause the Story was Real.
surferdude44444 (((
@@waynewright2886
Your quoted year of movie release is in error by 1900 years.
There were no movies in the year 87.
@@andrew_koala2974
What the Hell are you Talking About No Movies Released in 87!
I remember that day very well. I was at Pinewood Elementary School in Tujunga when our teacher, Mrs. Armand came out of the classroom and ushered us all back into our class. I remember her and another teacher, Mrs. Henderson talking about the junior high school plane crash. Even then, bad news traveled fast. Funny how a kid can remember such things but our teacher was worried and ushered us in like a mother hen. She was a kind teacher and will always remember the worry on her face at that moment. I can't believe it has been 61 years.
HG, When I listen to your stories, it feels like I'm listening to the voice of History itself. I believe if you continue to create these marvelously informative videos, your popularity will grow very rapidly.
What? With that stupid, irritating voice and face?
I developed an interest in air disasters after watching an episode of "Mayday" or one of its other names. I ended up watching almost all of them, and I remember this crash from those documentaries very well. I do not remember anyone mentioning the connection between this crash and the one that Ritchie Valens was involved in, so I just wanted to say thanks for telling the story again, as well as the extra information that I may have otherwise never knew. I'll be sharing this information in my conversations about these air disasters.
same here, one thing i have noticed about people that are interested in air disasters is everyone has one specific crash they are most fascinated by
I grew up in the 60s in Pacoima and my dad used to drive us over to the crash site a few years after it happened, amazing you found this and the entire report. Nice work
Well done. It’s almost like living at that time. The fact that Valens was terrified to fly because of this makes American Pie all the more meaningful from an American cultural point of view. I’m 56 and never realized this. You have yet again, opened my eyes to our collective history. This is the value of what you do. Thanks, as always.
I saw 'La Bamba' when it came out in the theater, and about 10 years later, was a substitute teacher, who subbed a few times at Pacoima Junior High among several other schools in the east San Fernando Valley, but I never knew the connection of the dream sequence and that school until now! Thanks for the lesson!
As a airplane buff I have spent many hours reading about this. You did an amazing job, thank you for a great presentation of this incident
enjoy all your forgotten history..thank you Prof Simon.
I just introduced my 81 year old father to your channel. He subscribed and has been binge-watching since the 4th. You're welcome! ; )
morskojvolk thank you!
god bless him. my stepdad passed away early 2015- he was a general dynamics rocket engineer. he was fascinated by his computer and was online alot at age 86. OMG would he have loved curiosity stream... he loved German stuff (he was british?) and would be driving an infiniti if he were alive today. he would have loved that German guy at the test track! my real dad died in '97 right when he was starting to become computer literate. buy your dad a drink or do something nice for him cause I can't do that anymore. l lost my mom in February. So I have a house full of all their stuff (no clothes) and a dog and a cat. hope your dad keeps on truckin...
That is cool.
mark felton productions is also good, mostly ww2 stuff tho.
@@tommurphy4307 I'm sorry for your lost 😔.
Yes, this tradagy deserves to be remembered with out question, Thank You................
I was born in 1959 and we lived in Pacoima. My parents lived there during the time of the crash. I remember my dad showing me the schoolyard and telling me about this plane crash as a young child. He said not only were there deaths, but many of the children sustained horrible injuries like lost arms and legs. Very tragic.
In January 1957 I was an almost 14 year old kid growing up in San Gabriel, about 25 miles away. I must have heard the news but watching this very well presented history recap did not evoke any recollection at all. Strange. Thank you History Guy, your stuff is simply great.
I was awestruck by this video. This is the first I've heard of this story. PSA Flight 182 collision over San Diego on September 25, 1978 comes to mind.
History Guy: I love your site and stories. I really love how the general population in the comments sections add their own remembrances of the events you review. Thanks so much!!!!! This is the best!!!!!!!! And, thanks TH-camrs who add the additional information.
This happened right above me as I was standing in line for lunch at Vinedale Elementary School in La Tuna Canyon, Sun Valley, CA. I was about 10 years old and I have never forgotten it.
I realky appreciate your videos. Refreshing, no click bait, just juicy morsels of the past. And you learn more about the period of any particular video with all the the details you provide.
Thank you history guy.
my uncle was one of the boys burned in the crash, but he lived .
I was about six weeks old at the time that happened, but years later my mom told me about it. I asked my brother about it one time, and he said that he saw the DC-7 going down right before it hit the schoolyard.
I died on that plane.
@@oceanblue3050 😭😭😭😭🤣🤣🤣🤣💀💀💀👻
@@oceanblue3050 dude......😂😪💀
@@oceanblue3050 thoughts and prayers
On that day I was in grade school in La Crescenta and while on the playground did observe both the jet going and the guy in the parachute. I will always remember that sight. RIP to all who passed.
Loved this one! The history you bring up definitely needs to be remembered! Thanks for posting! Love this channel!!!!
I was a student at Northridge Junior High School in 1957. Our school took in students from Pacoima Junior High at the time. We heard descriptions of the crash first hand from the survivors. Thank you for posting this video.
You should do more videos on airplane crashes. Most out there are long documentaries and your presentation is amazing. I really enjoy being able to watch many short clips at night before bed instead of being stuck with one 45-60 min video on one thing in the past.
Yes, I like the factual , to the point presentation. Most of the big name documentaries have 20 minutes of drama stuff added.
Brother was on the field and injured . I was right next door at Terra Bella Elementary and witnessed it all. Our home was a major crime scene as the gym field fence was our property line fence , again, right next door. Remember that day like it was last week. Thanks for posting this.
I remember vividly in Sept 1978, a small plane collided with a PSA 727 over San Diego, killing 144 people ,including I believe 9 on the ground.After that accident I always felt a twinge of anxiety whenever I boarded a plane.
And I remember the story of the pre-internet troll that called into KGB-FM to say "Nobody rocks San Diego like PSA".
I love how you tell the stories with enthusiasm
There are further links in this chain. Eddie Cochran was friends with Buddy Holly, the Big Bopper and of course Richie Valens. Their deaths effected him so badly he stopped touring as he had developed a morbid premonition that he also would die young.
However because of financial responsibilities he was required that he continue to perform live, and that led to his acceptance of an offer to tour the United Kingdom in 1960. On Saturday 16 April just before midnight he was involved in a traffic accident. Cochran died of his injuries in hospital four hours later, they others in the car all surviving, though others were injured including Gene Vincent and Cochran's fiancée Sharon Sheeley.
As a couple of follow ups, after the accident the car and other items from the crash were impounded at the local police station until a coroner's inquest could be held. A police cadet at the station, David Harman, taught himself to play guitar on Cochran's impounded Gretsch. He would later become known as Dave Dee of the band Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick & Tich. Two of their songs sold over one million copies each.
Gene Vincent tour the UK again in 1961 and moved to the UK in 1963. When touring the UK in 1963 one member of the backing band was Ritchie Blackmore who, in 1968, would be a founding member of Deep Purple.
I wouldn't have known of Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich had I not seen the movie "Death Proof".
Actually saw them live.
Surprisingly, it is little known that Dion and the Belmonts were also on that tour. Dion was going to fly out with Buddy and the Bopper, but he gave up his ticket to Richie Valens. Richie had a rough time, because being from California, he could not stand the bitter cold. The planes pilot was very young and not licensed for instrument flying. Btw, I don’t think that Eddie Cochran was on that tour initially, he probably joined up after the crash. Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich , too bad they did not make it in the US, they were too British. Have all their records.
Tom C
That was not Dion that gave up his seat in a coin toss. It was Tommy Allsop.
That has got to be difficult to deal with. On the one hand relieved it was not you and on the other saddened at the deaths.
You are an amazing story teller. Your telling of this story had me on the edge of my seat.
I only found out about your channel a week ago and have been binging all your videos. Always glad to see a new one at the top of the list.
I'm surprised his channel doesn't have 500k subscribed yet...
same
only here for a few weeks. i'm a past history/archaeology major, so this is just awsum.
Sleep walk still about brings me to tears because of that movie, La Bamba. When his brother calls out "Richie!!", it still gives me chills. Watched that movie in the theaters when I was about 7-8. Thank you for the history, we are better for it.
Well done mini-documentary, however, I have two small mistakes to point out. The larger one is that Pacoima is and always has been a municipality of the City of Los Angeles, unlike Palmdale and Burbank, which are self-governed cities. The second, related error is that William Parker was the of the Police Chief of the City of Los Angeles. I attended the school from 1972 to 1976 and the memory of this crash and the death of our most beloved alum, Ritchie Valens, was still quite fresh in our minds. Every time I see a video about the crash it brings back sad yet nostalgic memories of a time and place that once existed.
Torsten, I agree with you completely on both of your points. The only cities that are not a part of the City of Los Angeles in the San Fernando Valley are, San Fernando, Burbank, Glendale, and Hidden Hills. Parts of Calabasas are in the City of Los Angeles and parts are their own separate city.
Thanks @torsten for clearing up the William Parker question I had while watching the video ... I was wondering if it's the same Parker as "Parker Center," and now I assume it was.
@@josephgaviota
The Old LAPD Administration Building that Opened in 1955 & Shut Down by 2009 on Los Angeles Street, in Downtown L.A. & T.V. & Movie Shows Like Perry Mason, Burke's Law, Hunter, Police Woman & Police Story, The Closer, Dragnet, & Too Many Cop Shows & Movies were Filmed There, or the Exteriors of Parker Center were Used in those Shows!
When No Nonsense LAPD Chief Bill Parker Suddenly Died of a Heart Attack at a Function at a Now Defunct Hotel in Downtown L.A.(that's Now the Site of the Current 73 Story Korean Air Hotel Tower) in 1966, the L.A. City Council Decided to Rename the LAPD Police Adminstration Building on Los Angeles St. After The Late Chief William (Bill) Parker, as... "Parker Center".
Today the Remains of the Old Parker Center are Being Torn Down By the City Of L.A. in a Very Expensive Demolition, as well as Timely Process to Dismantle Parker Center, Cause of Issues & it Being Next Door to the City's 911 Dispatch Center & Hazardous Building Materials Today that are Cancerous to the Public!
The Old Parker Center Will be Replaced by a 27 Story L.A. City Hall Expansion Annex that will Open Next Decade!
Thank you kind sir :-)
&... Let's Not Forget that Pacoima Jr. High was Renamed After The Late Richie Valens about 30 Years Ago
Great channel . Great content with in-depth explanations of facts . No speculation . No distracting music . You sir are more valuable than the history channel itself . By far .
Very interesting. Of course, many of us know about 'the day the music died', but this connection is one I had never heard of before. Today, flight at 25,000', or Flight Level 250 is Instrument Flight Regulations, or IFR instead of Visual Flight Regulations, VFR. Above 18,000' in the U.S. requires a radar transponder and contact with an Air Traffic Control center. Something like this shouldn't happen today because everyone should be under positive radar control at the altitudes they were flying then. A further part is that military aircraft now operate inside an Military Operating Area, or MOA, and if the MOA is active, or 'hot' a controller will inform you, and you probably will not be allowed inside of it.
I assume you are a pilot or studying to be one.
I hold a Private Pilot's License, but I am not current, and my medical has lapsed. I do not know if I could get another medical certificate, although if I had to financial wherewithal to return to flying, I'd be doing everything I could to get one. :D
Guns ~ Or he knows how to google and had 30 seconds to spare.
In the Information Age ignorance is a choice.
Jerry, I will agree that Google is a very good resource for many things, but I love aviation and everything about it, so I knew this information because of that. Thank you both for your comments.
Gary C I would have my license if I could afford it. I'm looking to go all the way from single engine aircraft to multi engine turboprop and jet engine aircraft. Eventually I want to move on to rotary aircraft so I can fly transport helicopters for the Marines
I really like the idea that people lost in history deserve to be remembered. This was a great video, thank you.
I witnessed the debris coming down on the schoolyard from my front lawn. I later attended Pacoima Junior High but only learned about Valens years later. He wasn’t mentioned while I was there.
History Guy, thanks for this eloquent narrative of these tragic events. You have a way with words!
Wow! I remember this as if it was yesterday. I was only 8 or 9 at the time and was in an elementary school less than 2 miles away. The windows of our room faced the direction of the crash. When the plane impacted the ground it was so loud the room shook and we all looked out the window to see a huge ball of black smoke rising up. Very scary moment for us and the teacher. The next day of school, one of the kids brought a piece of wreckage into class. We all thought it was pretty cool. I had no idea Ritchie Valens went to that school but remember the scene in the movie.
You must have gone to Haddon Elementary School then. I went to Sharp Ave E.S., which is a bit closer, but on the other side of the freeway.
I went to Chase Street ES in Panorama City. When was the Golden State freeway built? Hard to believe this was over 60 years ago.
I was 13 years old when this happened and lived in Los Angeles. Pacoima is a suburb. I have vivid memories of reading about the pilot waving his left arm out of the left side sliding window to get out of the way. I didn't know about Rudy Vallance, but do remember his crash as well. As a commercially rated pilot I have read the accident report and could not believe the pilot was actually willing to fly. I'm instrument rated and would NEVER have taken off in the weather they had.
Excellent, as usual! I had never heard of this crash, but even your videos that cover subjects I have heard of always present me with details I had never heard of before. Still binge-watching, but have most of your videos watched now and not a single one of them has failed to please. I love your delivery as well as the amount of info you can pack into so short a span.
I click even if I feel I am thoroughly familiar with your chosen subject. You always leave at least a couple 'biscuits', it is fun to learn something new about a story that interested you YEARS ago. Thank you Mr. Guy!
I actually first learned about this crash from listening to the Radio Classics channel on Sirius radio. They played a radio show from, I think CBS that was from around the time of the crash. It had interviews from some survivors and witnesses. I haven't Googled it so I can't remember the title or the year.
I said all that to say I love this channel. I like the format and the subjects you cover on here. Thank you for the work you put into these videos, and I hope you make many more since I'm running out of your videos. I've watched almost all of them and have now started rationing the remaining ones. I eagerly await more.
Dsdcain I thought I was the only person who listens to the channel
Jennifer Robinson just poop a lot
Jennifer Robinson just go to a bar and be blunt.
Manuel Ortiz Guys, don't waste bandwidth commenting on the spam. It's auto generated, there is no human behind these comments (and certainly no "Jennifer"... more likely a fat spammer with bad breath named Brad, still living in his mom's basement...). Just report the comments as spam and ignore them, they will eventually be removed by TH-cam, and then only your comments will remain as residue, out of context. Thanks!
Dsdcain I concur with all you said. My beloved TH-cam, ( I've had two channels for 11years now) has been disappointing me as of late with Dem Liberal bias, and censuring,) however I woke up stiff necked and groggy from the lazy boy chair, just trying to get to the bedroom and real sleep. I look at my phone one last time and behold a notification of this vid and am instantly drawn to this. I am a war history buff loving air war stuff. Author of a book "Up there by me Terry Allan. I remember this story and it's fascinating. Like you I will check out all these vids. What a great channel to wake up to and subscribe to as well. Good night. Have a good one. Tman!........
what a fascinating story! I really enjoyed it! And I don't think that you speak too quickly. Your pace indicates to me the enthusiasm about your subject. BRAVO!
I'll be back!
As an aviation enthusiast who grew up in Southern California, I was surprised to learn about this significant incident from your channel! Thank you! I spent considerable time yesterday performing further research online, finding out details of the crews and children who were killed, the subsequent life of the radar operator that survived. Even found a recording that was made in the auditorium of the school, during a presentation to students, in which you can hear the plane coming down and exploding. Very moving accounts of the tragedy by survivors and witnesses.
Another significant area air-to-air disaster between military and civilian aircraft occurred over the San Gabriel mountains near Duarte in 1971.
There are quite a few resources online, yes.
orangelion03 ever go to whitemans airport???
It's been a few years, but yes. Flew in there in a helicopter a couple times when my brother was building time flying out of Van Nuys. I grew up in Chino area, about a 30 minute bicycle ride to the airport there...hung out there as a kid. Now I live in Santa Paula and we have a great little airport here. A short drive to Camarillo which hosts a chapter of the CAF and lots of warbirds.
Thank you for the video of this historical Incident. I’m from LA and never heard of this accident.
orangelion03 nicee
I loved the History Channel and could be entertained for a long time. You are in the same vein. Yours are concise, short and fascinating. Good work. Looking forward to more of your sterling history accounts.
Pacoima is my home city. My aunts and uncles have told me stories of how they were at San Fernando High School, out on the field, and they heard it. They are about 2 miles apart, down Laurel Cyn Blvd. Once they got word what happened, most left school and went straight to Pacoima Jr High. I attending Pacoima Jr High from 85 to 88, and they have a memorial on the field and painted on one of the buildings, with the names of the kids who lost their lives. There is an apartment building next door to the field, and houses across the street, and it's been said that you can hear kids playing basketball in the middle of the night.
I've read a book called Ritchie Valens, the first Latino Rocker. It talks quite a bit about Ritchie's time at the school, and there was a picture of a mural at Pacoima JR high featuring Ritchie. There is also a so-so quality recording from some years back called Ritchie Valens Live at Pacoima Jr High.
It's amazing how much history there is surrounding us that most of us (or at least a lot of us) have never heard about many of these events. Keep it up History Guy. We love your work!!
i really appreciate your mission statement, history that deserves to be remembered. my father told me a story of a midair collision over san diego when he was a child. in 1942 or thereabouts
a plane crashed into a house in their neighborhood killing a mother and child. it had taken off from the runway at the consolidated aircraft factory or perhaps ryan aeronautical. it possibly collided with another aircraft and fell to the ground in linda vista very close to the school my father was attending and a street away from where he lived. he is 86 and his memory is a bit hazy but i thought the story deserved remembering, perhaps you are aware of this accident. keep up the great work!
I've heard about this a couple times. However for whatever reason all past times I've heard about this the incident that happened on the ground was always omitted. Thank you for providing a more complete picture.
Went to Pacoima Jr High 90's, and remember hearing the actual audio recording of this in Film class.
Excellent description, I actually felt like I was witnessing the whole horrific ordeal.
Ironic that the two jets were testing radar but didn't detect the third plane.
1) It appears the jet was initially pointing away from the DC-7, until it turned towards it. Radar only sees ahead of the aircraft.
2) Even if they did get a target, their radar model may not have been able to determine its relative altitude. It could've been 10,000 feet below them, for all they knew. For instance, modern air traffic control radars can only display an aircraft's altitude if the aircraft has a Mode C transponder on board that tells the radar its altitude. If there's no working transponder aboard the plane, ATC only gets its location and speed, but not its altitude.
Thanks Mark, good info!
Doug Mcdonell according to the CAB report, the equipment was being tested in “lock on,” which focused on a single target to the exclusion of all others. Douglas released a statement saying that it was impossible for the F-89s radar to see the DC-9.
The History Guy: Five Minutes of History
So....they could have shot it but not avoid it?
Another aircraft crash that occured in Pacoima, as well that many may not know about, occured at the intersection of Haddon and Montague streets on February 2, 1965. This one involved actor Ken Osmond, (Eddie Haskell from the "Leave it to Beaver" TV series), when their Bell-47 helicopter ran out of fuel, due to a mechanical malfunction. Read Ken Osmond's autobiography titled "Eddie" from 2014, where he details this crash in chapter 14 of his book. I also grew up in the San Fernando Valley. History Guy: You did a great presentation here of the 1957 crash!!
Another great piece of lost history. If I didn’t know better, I would have thought I was hearing a newscaster on the 5 o’clock news. Please keep up these wonderful segments of lost history. I open my iPad daily looking to see if there is a new one.
So enjoy your channel Sir 👍
My oldest of three son's has just started college and His major is history. His plan is to receive his bachelor degree in history before he goes to the USAF. We're very proud of him and he obviously loves your channel. But he adds another hour to each subject you share. As we know you would as well if you had the time to do so.
Thanks for giving me and many others something must more honest and classy than 99% of what is TH-cam.
Byron from Salisbury N.C.
I never liked hearing the last words of the pilots. I guess the insight it gives you into what they may have been thinking as they are helpless to avoid their deaths. Still though, at the same time, I find myself listening to gain a better understanding of how they have dealt with the inevitable. Always eerie. Some are frightened, some have accepted their fate, others are too preoccupied and their training has taken over as they try to correct the issue. Never the less, it's always the worst when the incident was completely out of the pilot's control...
I'm with you, there are videos on TH-cam that are collections of last words in crashes, I find it voyeuristic at best and creepy in general, indicative of a poorly developed mind or morality. "Faces of Death" in the 80s is similar.
Your aviation bits are how I discovered you and remain my favorite tales.
Odd.. I've seen La Bamba countless times, but always thought the dream sequence was just the writers taking liberties with "artistic expression". I never realized it was an actual event.
Excellent video(s)!!!
I was eight years old living in Granada Hills. My parents went to the school. I remember seeing the engine in the school yard. You brought back and old memory.
When I saw "La Bamba" I just thought it was a premonition, nothing more. I don't think I have ever heard that - and it wasn't spelled out at all to my recollection. Man, thanks, very cool!
Fantastic video. Thank you. This has quickly become my favorite channel. Your videos are extremely well narrated, short enough to hold my attention, yet informative enough that I learn something new from each of them. Definitely worth remembering.
In my opinion, your best work yet.
ganymedeIV4 im.a 6 month subscriber..excellent stuff..even the parts of history I was never interested in caught my interest.
Javier 86 All his work is excellent, so I can't agree this is his "best". He's so very good that it would be tough to narrow down his best 10...or 3, not to mention 1.
Nice to see a Navy Chief Petty Officer's hat behind you there! Retired Navy Master Chief Petty Officer here. Recently found your channel and am enjoying all of the content.
History Guy - Great video!! Never saw your channel before but ran into it head-on while surfing TH-cam this morning. Just checked out your videos available and am afraid I'm hooked. Will see you often, keep up the great work, and thanks for the video.
I rarely comment on videos, or anything else as I dont do "social media" so I hope this helps. This is the best channel on more than TH-cam, this may very well be the best, most useful, wholesome, educational and yes, entertaining content on all of the internet. I'm a 48 year old with no formal ed past high school but very worldly and well rounded anyway. Thank you History Guy, they should have you in schools everywhere
Thank you for your kind words!
This happened less than a year after two passenger planes collided into each other over the Grand Canyon... Planes were just crashing into one another all over the place back in the 50's!
Kinda' an exaggeration i'd say.
Definitely far more dangerous back in the Good ol' Days.
Unkraut60
Who are you talking to child?
we still have the occasional mid air collision in modern times too, not even TCAS, more advanced ATC radars or even onboard radars have been able to completely eliminate planes crashing into each other
@@billfitzpatrick6910 In spite of the vastly increased number of aircraft in the air and vastly increased mileage, the last time there was a collision involving a commercial aircraft was in Sept of 2015 over Senegal, and before that the last was in Sept of 2006 over Brazil. On the other hand, in June of 1956 there was the Grand Canyon disaster, in January of '57 there was the Pacoima collision, in April of '58 a United DC-7 collided with an F-100 near Las Vegas, in Oct '58 a BEA Vickers Viscount collided with an Italian F-86 over Italy, in Feb '60 over Brazil, a US Navy R6D-1 transport collided with a Brazilian commercial DC-3, in Dec '60, over New York a United DC-8 and TWA Constellation collided. Air crashes ARE deadlier today, because airplanes carry a lot more people, and accidents due to malfunction and pilot error happen more, chiefly because there are so many more aircraft flying so many more miles, but commercial aviation collisions are much rarer.
Man that’s a gruesome scene on the ground. Another excellent video, one of your best. Love the aviation stories.
So interesting!! I always thought the dream sequence in La Bamba was just some made up thing to make Ritchie's death more spectacular. Thanks for such a great mini-doc!!
To my recollection the Producer of the film lived in or around Pacoima at the time. His recollection and filming of that seen as exactly how I remembered seeing it.
I remember this accident but very little of the details you provide. It happened a few months before or after the Grand Canyon accident between a United DC-7 and a TWA Constellation which had both taken off a few minutes apart from Los Angeles and followed flight tracks which converged several hundred miles later. The United plane was flying at a different altitude from what had been given for various reasons which brought the two together under cloud conditions such that the overtaking United may not have seen the TWA until the last moments in uncontrolled (see and avoid) high altitude air space. This accident brought about the formation of the Federal Aviation Administration and Positive Control air space.
The Grand Canyon collision happened in 1956 before this one. Lots of changes took place after it as you mentioned. This accident in the schoolyard probably contributed to the changes also.
Fantastic job... you totally crushed it.
I enjoy and appreciate it all, as I'm sure even the people you mention that made the history would appreciate it and the fact you didn't forget them. They are worth mentioning and deserve to be remembered. Thanks again, History Guy.
didnt know about richie's connection. excellent vid as always. yeh, i'm that old.
Fascinating story. Very interesting connection you make to Richie Valens being afraid of flying. Well done video.
Another great episode. Sad, but well done.
Thank you so much for all the fresh new content. I get tired of the repetitive content with TH-cam
Richie Valens friends died there at that school yard, then Richie died in a plane crash. Crazy
Crazy.... a big hit for Patsy Cline, who also died in a plane crash.