Ooooh, that's actually part of the character normally? (I haven't read much Discworld yet either, but Death as a character just seems so fascinating in that lore!)
When the book came out Pterry was doing a signing at a shop near me, I got him to sign a copy for my Dad's birthday. When Dad opened it and read the inscription his face lit up like a kid. A couple of years later I met Pterry again and was able to thank him for helping me give Dad such a great present.
A friend of mine sent me the novel _Hogfather_ one year, in a Christmas care package, and I read it before seeing the televised adaptation. And yeah -- I was thinking that what was missing in the filmed version was Pratchett's word craft, about a minute before you said it out loud. For one thing, Sir Terry put a lot of expository humor in footnotes on the page that a reader can pause and read, or go back and reread, at their discretion. And even the memory of reading the climatic scene at the end, and his word craft in those last few pages sends shivers down my spine.
Doh, I missed this comment as I made mine. Ironic, cause I saw the one you commented on about someone saying the same thing and me agreeing with. Sigh.
I absolutely loved Ian Richardson as the voice of Death. The scene where he's warned "Don't try any last-minute stuff!" and intones "I AM 'last-minute stuff'" is just perfect.
I don't think anyone has ever captured Death in print as well as Terry. Neil Gaiman comes a very close second with his version. Who else could make Death so likeable but still be Death?
Oh, boy do you have a treat ahead of you, getting into the discworld series is a delightful dive into eccentricities very nearly mirroring our own reality :)
The book is about belief. The book Small Gods goes into this more, belief is the food of the gods, with no belief they die to become stories or nothing .It is also lampooning Christmas traditions and notions. As well as something people often forget. Old gods, new jobs. Taking pagan rituals and using them for Christmas. How Jesus shares some traits from Apollo.
The Hogfather is fantastic, all three live action adaptions of Sir Terrance of Pratchett's work are worthy, although I think Going Postal may be my favourite. I wish they'd adapt one book a year, it would make a great tradition but they seem to have stopped.
@Юлия Антюфеева I'd heard of Wee Free Men being adapted but so far it hasn't gone anywhere. Hadn't heard of The Night Watch being done but that would be great too.
@Юлия Антюфеева Oh cool and thanks for doing the googly thing, it saved me from doing it, hahaha! I wish they'd do the Granny Weatherwax series of books, I really enjoyed them and I think they'd work great on TV.
@@JennaGetsCreative: A theological argument! However, Death is distinct from Mort and goes on forever (as far as we know). I think it's more a case of Mort beginning to take on Death's attributes-as Susan also does, later. It seems possible for multiple beings to share at least some of these attributes simultaneously, without losing their own separate identity.
The adaptations of "Hogfather" and "The Colour of Magic" both suffer from writing that assumes the audience has already read the books. The makers filmed the scenes as faithfully as they could to the books but didn't really take a step back and think "does this make sense to someone who doesn't already know what's going on?" The third adaptation in the series, "Going Postal," fares better because they actually made some adjustments to the exposition and the flow of the story to better fit the new medium.
Agree about Going Postal being the best of these - just preferred the way the story is told compared to the other 2 - I found the narration really helped with keeping things ticking along at a good pace. It's well worth watching especially if you enjoyed The Hogfather or The Colour of Magic.
The strongest part about Pratchett in most of his later books (among which Hogfather counts) is the deeper meaning of things - like the power of believe and how it can be manipulated and twisted. Or more the more surface observation about how many (mostly) christian believes are based on old heathen and often quite brutal believes that got converted and changed to fit into modern believes. It is a good adaption, but the book is just leagues better. If you know the book and watch the mini series you are never confused because of course you know what will happen, but another strong suit of Pratchet was, that in his Discworld novels he kept expanding on the same core elements. While they are not strictly sequels, many pick up and follow set characters. Like how come Susan *IS* the granddaughter of Death. The familiar core elements (and rules) made Hogfather a far easier thing to read even on the first reading because as strange as the concepts are, Pratchet familiarized the reader through novel after novel, exploring the implication further and deeper. What a loss his sickness and death to the world are!
Your observations on why Douglas Adams and Terry Pratchett screen adaptations never quite work due to the author's voice and wordplay being absent are bang on and I thank you for articulating them.
Great review! It was really interesting for me to hear your thoughts. Hogfather is one of my favourite Discworld novels and I really liked the adaptation. I'm glad it worked for someone who didn't know the source material.
As someone who has been reading Discworld novels since the 90's and has pretty much internalized the Discworld as a real place, it's so funny to hear it referred to as weird. Not in a bad way, it's always fun to see how people who are new to the world react to it. :O) You should really read more of the Discorld books, they are among some of the most human stories I have ever read, if that makes sense. Happy Hogswatch to everyone!
I haven't seen it but I read the book several times and read quite a few of other Discworld books. About the monsters under the bed if those children didn't happen to have Death's adopted granddaughter as a governess the adults wouldn't have been able to see the monster and deal with it. It would probably still be real but invisible to adults.
Susan really hated the last governess for telling them about monsters because they're not something people always notice, so she had to deal with them all the time because the kids were aware.
@@Amy-dl9vx I don't think the former governess made the children AWARE of the existence of monsters. She told them there were monsters in order to make them obedient, and they believed it so strongly that monsters did come into existence.
Terry Pratchetts books helped me through bad times and the death of my parents - first and formost the books about Death (Mort, Hogfather, Grim Reaper). There is something hopefull and bright in this DEATH, that can really give you strengh.
Hogfather is one of my favorite Discworld books, and usually an annual reread around Christmastime. But on the page, it is HILARIOUS. For some reason live action adaptations can't nail his humor, it always comes off as dark, and weird, as you said in your review. Maybe delightfully ironic at best. I think all the humor is in the phrasing and the witty observations that don't translate to film. I mean I laughed so hard I cried at the mall scene. Oh, and if you're interested, the story of Susan's parents, and how she ended up as Death's granddaughter, is in Mort, which is probably the best entry point for Discworld.
Thank you once again for reviewing this! It was a pleasure watching you try and explain this overly complicated premise (I wasn't actually aware in some places the series had been split into three parts, so I do apologize for that). You did a very spot on analysis, explaining why this adaption can be a challenge to enjoy. The mystery aspect is important and still present in the book; why would anyone want to kill the Hogfather? what does Teatime's plan have to do with the toothfairy? why does Death even care and going out of his way to help? why do we keep cutting back to the Unseen university and the Wizard's machine? It's not made clear where this story is going, but you something is lost in translation without the witty narration alongside it to provide insight to these characters and their motivations. I'm glad you enjoyed this series enough to watch it a second time and want to read more of the books (and I might come back at a later date to request another Discworld related review :P)
Absolutely love the Hogfather, I’ve been a Pratchett fan since my teacher introduced me to him at age 10. The Hogfather book is absolutely amazing, there is so much interplay between death and Susan, Mr. Teatime is amazing as a villain, and manages to carry off that unhinged vibe. This, along with Nightmare before Christmas, and the Holiday are required Christmas watches. If I had to recommend a Pratchett book it would have to be Equal Rites, or Thief of Time, which also involves Susan. If I can afford it in the new year, I’ll send you a copy.
Just a small note - Death's mouth isn't supposed to move. In the books, Death's voice is described as not exactly being "heard" by the characters, as much as the words just arrive in their head. Understandably, this was damn near impossible to properly convey in film format, but they gave it a reasonable shot (with the slightly echo-y, ethereal sound effect whenever Death spoke)
@Hans Hanzo he is in fact described as the most (or one of the most) real things in reality, more real than even people and physical objects, which is what unsettles most people.
I love Hogfather, and Sir Terry’s voice and perspective is wonderful. Just jumping off, though, I wanna suggest any of the Witch books. The sub-series that follows the witches are my favorite. Carpe Jugulum I read while young but I adored it. I have some issues with Witches Abroad, in part because I don’t think he was familiar enough or in a position to criticize non-western beliefs, but it was still a truly good book.
Wyrd Sisters was my first Terry Pratchett book. I read it right after our school drama program put on MacBeth. It was fate. But also an acquired taste, if you're not really familiar with Shakespeare, a lot of it goes over your head. I've had mixed success when recommending it.
Omg I love the Hogfather. Death and his granddaughter are always adorable lol Read the book as a kid and loved it. Disc world is so delightfully quirky but in a sort of “British humour” kind of way. Even though it’s been a little while since I read a Pratchett novel, I really like the books that have Death (like Mort) and anything with the Witches. Going Postal is also good. Night Watch, Colour of Magic. Oh man I feel like going on a Discworld marathon now haha.
I highly recommend you read (at the very least) the Death novels of the Discworld. The Auditors come up often in his books, and they are a great idea for villains. While everyone will make agents of chaos bad guys, Terry Pratchett had the brilliant idea to make bad guys who worship order. Perfect Order.
The genius of Terry Pratchett is amazing. Can only recommend to delve into the Discworld. It's so hard to describe, but just so brilliant. And you are completely right about the books / written works of Pratchett being very hard to put into other media, even audiobooks, because he plays so much with words and spelling of words...I mean, a lot of jokes has to do with words that either sound the same or are spelled alike but have completely different meaning... it's hard to get all the nuances if you aren't actually reading the words yourself. :)
OMG! i just clicked so I haven't seen but I love that this review is a thing. HUGE fan. Read almost all the Discworld books. Thank you, and thank you to the pateron? That picked this for you. Thank you again
Please read "Mort" and "Reaper Man" - they explain Susan's background so well without mentioning her at all...She first appeared in "Soul Music" (I think) And also why the Discworld Death is so odd compared to our own concept of death...
I dunno about brandy, I'm from the uk and it was always a glass of sherry in our house. A mince pie and a glass of sherry for Santa and a carrot and/or a turnip for the reindeer.
If any of the individuals who are on the patreon want to suggest The Watch when it is released on the BBC, he might enjoy watching it considering it's, from all appearances going to be a loose adaptation of Guards! Guards! for the first season, with certain other characters already being members of the watch earlier on then they were in the novels. And it so far looks awesome from what has been shown from production photos.
I love Hogfather. I just watched it sometime during the summer and I may watch it again after watching your fun review. The Colour of Magic is another good one. It features David Jason as the lead character and I think he's fantastic in whatever he's in. Also Tim Curry being evil which is always fun! Thanks Nathaniel! (hope I spelled that correctly)
I haven’t seen it but I have read it for the first time this year. I’m now a discworld convert. I have to agree. His humour is hard to translate on to screen as I seen in good omens, but that’s not a criticism it’s just that these are different mediums
I agree. I'm a massive Pratchett fan, but his books do not translate into the visual medium. Well, for me, anyway. These stories and characters are simply too 'Terry', making it really difficult to translate them into a show or movie...so far. Maybe one day a very clever person will accomplish this.
Ian Richardson, who narrates and voices Death, was a long-standing British character actor (he was Scottish although that was not always apparent). Among his many roles was the part of Francis Urquhart in the BBC trilogy of dark political comedies in the 1990s that started with House of Cards. (Urquhart was renamed Frank Underwood for the Netflix version with Kevin Spacey.) Albert was played by David Jason, who is very much in National Treasure territory over here in Britain. Mr Teatime is played by Marc Warren, who has also played many different roles (quite a few relying his boyish blond hair and blue eyed routine) but for the Council he will be best (or worst) remembered as Elton in the Love and Monsters episode of Doctor Who. I thought he pretty much carried that story but that's another discussion. I agree with you about the way a writer like Terry Pratchett or Douglas Adams uses words can be lost in a visually-based adaptation. The TV version of The Hitch-Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy managed to retain Adams' authorial voice by keeping The Book as a major character; unfortunately that was not the case in the later film. But I still prefer the radio Hitch-Hiker's to the TV series and movie; similarly the BBC Radio versions of Pratchett's novels are more successful and faithful to the source. So are the audio books, many of which have been voiced by Nigel Planer (who plays Sideney and the voice of the Auditors in Hogfather) and Tony Robinson (Mr Crumley in Hogfather but who is probably still best known as Baldrick in the Blackadder series).
I love Hogfather! I've read it at least every other Christmas since college. Death is one of my favorite Discworld characters - he's really weirdly likeable, and his interactions with Susan, and the raven, and Death of Rats are always terrific. Absolutely read the book if you get the chance. And if you are intrigued by the power of belief in this one, check out Small Gods. Basically, the way that gods and other anthropomorphic personifications work in the Discworld universe is that they get stronger as people believe in them, and weaker or die if people stop believing in them (kind of like in American Gods, come to think of it). I've been afraid to check out any Discworld films because the books seemed difficult to adapt (there are footnotes, and a bunch of internal thoughts and narrator explanations), but maybe I'll give this one a look. The Good Omens mini series has given me a bit more hope when it comes to adapting a Pratchett-format story.
It's such a treat to watch someone discover Discworld! You should check out cartoon adaptations of Wyrd Sisters and Soul Music(Death is voiced by Christopher Lee in that one!).
The Discworld is such a great world filled with excellent characters, intriguing stories, and fantastical mysteries. I would heartily recommend the book "Mort" if you enjoy this world, then proceed to read the Death/Susan series as each book adds more to the character of Death, and Susan is a very likeable character throughout the latter three books of the five book series.
They did it nicely in Good Omens. The narrator IE God was very much the voice of Pratchett and voiced a few of his wonderful footnotes. That being said Susan was wonderful in this, I wish they could have used her for the Thief of time. I will not ruin it but a good starting point would be Mort, Reaper Man and then Soul music to get more on Death and his "family". It was never explained why death took on his Daughter which started all of this. It was implied Susan existed because he wanted to do things but couldn't just due to his nature and also the loneliness of what he is.
its a tradition in our house to watch 'Hogfather' around this time of year. I consider it the best of the three Discworld adaptations. 'Color of Magic' is pretty good, but suffers because they had to cut whole chunks out of the book to make it fit the runtime. I loathe the 'Going Postal' adaptation. It's one of my favourite books and, oh boy, was the dirty done on it. The casting choices for everyone except the Patrician, Moist Von Lipwig and Adora Belle Dearheart were questionable at best, some of the best parts were left out and the ending was unrecognisable. I know a lot of people love it, so don't @ me, please. I'm not saying nobody should love it - just that I don't. The Discworld books can be generally divided up into characters. There's the Rincewind books (The Color of Magic, The Light Fantastic, Sourcery, Eric, Interesting Times, The Last Continent and The Last Hero), the Death books (Mort, Reaper Man, Soul Music, Hogfather, Thief of Time), the Witches books (Equal Rites, Witches Abroad, Lord and Ladies, Maskerade and Carpe Jugulum) and the City Watch series (Guards!, Guards!, Men At Arms, Feet of Clay, Jingo, The Fifth Elephant, Nigh Watch, Thud and Snuff) The rest are either stand-alones, part of the YA series about Tiffany Aching or feature Moist Von Lipwig (Going Postal, Making Money, Raising Steam.) I have tried to pick a favourite character, but I find it impossible, because even side characters are so well developed that you just appreciate them all. Even the bad guys. I never used to believe one person could make an impact on the world, but such a person was Terry Pratchett, and we are all the poorer for his loss.
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What I think about it? I disc-overed about 10 years ago and am still in love with it xD
I was never really a fan of the Sky TV adaptations of the Discworld books. They just lacked the magic that Sir Terry put into all his books. And now I’ve upset myself by having to change puts to put because of his passing
For Discworld adaptations, especially Hogfather, two things that will *never* be able to come across in film are: The Auditors of Reality - They don't speak. They alter your memory so that you remember them speaking. Creating an odd effect that is similar to an auditory only déjà vu. Nobby Nobbs - An individual so...non-specific that he carries a letter from the Patrician, verifying that in lack of negative proof, Nobby Nobbs is indeed, at least legally, human.
Hogfather is my favorite of the three TV adaptations. I watch it every Christmas Season. The other two are Going Postal and The Colour of Magic (the 1st book in the series). All are worth a watch Also note that Death's granddaughter, Susan, is played by Michelle Dockery before Downton Abbey. She is great. The odd tone is partly due to Terry Pratchett's mind and the fact that he started the series to mock the adult fantasy genre that rose to prominence in the late '70s and early '80s (e.g. all things Tolkien). Disc world is so odd because it is saturated with magic. Since a flat world cannot hold people down with gravity, Magic is what takes the place of gravity. That is why everything is so odd. Magic saturates the environment. Even the speed of light is slowed down by the magic field it travels through.
One of the best comments I saw was on the back of many of the novels. A benign other world is what they call Discworld. It meant that Pratchett could get away with his philosophical satire on just about any subject as long as it was on Disc. Don't forget your troubles, bring them to Discworld.
Oh! I decided less than an hour ago that I would watch it tonight! And then I just saw your video vignette and said "ooooooooooouuuuuuuuuuuuuuuiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii!!!!!!".
Part of the non-acknowledged weirdness is because a lot of these things are established (either explicitly or implicitly) in previous novels of the Discworld.
Watch the animated adaption of Soul Music - its on TH-cam. Its the Death story that precedes Hogfather and introduces Susan. Of course, you'll not quite understand without Mort and Reaper man. Also, Hogfather is a deconstruction of Xmas myths and folk legends. Mind you, the miniseries leaves out the best joke in the book, where the Canting Crew open a bonbon and read the "joke" - which is effectively "Help, i've fallen on the rollers and can't get ...... oh a big ink blob obscures the punchline"
I love your videos. Especially the fact that you give representation to the LGBTQA+ community. As a bisexual man myself, who has struggled with sexuality and acceptance for a really long time, I just want to say thank you.
Thanks for this cheerful video. I've read the whole Discworld series and seen the screen versions. The quality of the books varies quite a bit; my favourites are "Wyrd Sisters", "Men at Arms", "Night Watch", and "Going Postal". "Monstrous Regiment" is so-so, it reads to me like an unfinished draft, which could have done with further improvement. "Hogfather" is good in parts. The screen versions are quite good attempts, but never as good as the books. I think "Going Postal" is the most successful screen adaptation, it seems quite fun if you just watch it on screen, and the actors are good; but if you read the book, "Oh, this is so much better."
Mention of chapters (or lack of) reminded me of the very Pratchett thing that was putting someone's criticism that "he doesn't even write in chapters" as a quote on the back of the book 😂
I think I was around seven or eight when I first saw it, and I eventually loved it. I'm Norwegian and the DVDs didn't have Norwegian dubbing or subtitles, which made it a rather confusing 15 minutes before I gave up (English is my fourth language, and I was only so good at English at the time). When my dad asked if I didn't like the movie, I had to explain that I couldn't translate what they were saying quickly enough. My dad then proceeded to translate the movie in real time for me while we watched it together. It's kind of special to me now :)
It makes much more sense in the book, Discworld is hard to adapt. It helps to understand that in Discworld there is an extra element to the periodical table, narrativium. This means things people believe in become real if they fit a story. It also helps to remember that at heart Terry is a satirist, so things like the Wizards are a satire of real-world things, in their case university academics. The whole of Discworld is a satire of (our) roundworld. Glad you enjoyed it anyway, but most people should read first. For where to read next in the series, you might enjoy The Watch books, particularly from Feet of Clay onward. A character joins who wants to express their gender in a society that doesn't recognize it, and well you just have to read and see.
Pratchett also makes an appearance in the film which I love! Definitely one of my favourites and Death is my favourite character! Who has seen the cartoon adaptations? Soul Music and Wyrd Sisters - I am not sure if there are others.
Yeah as someone who read the book multiple times long before seeing this adaptation, I'd say you pretty much nailed it. The adaptation is awkward because so much of Pratchett's appeal is in the narration. And tbh even with the more dialogue based scenes the delivery is slightly off, in my opinion. It's fine but I'd rather just read the book and recommend the book to others. I'm not exactly sure how to fix it but I think you'd need a team that was as talented at handling the audiovisual medium as Pratchett is at his medium. People who could approach the same kind of humour and worldbuilding from a different angle. And I absolutely think that's doable. I think there are some scenes in Good Omens the TV show that succeed in that for example. That show had a bunch of awkward stuff too but parts of it were great.
Incomprehensible. This video that is. What are you trying to say? You jumping around so much if someone who didn't see the movie or read the book won't understand a single thing here. 7 out of 10
The Hogfather has always been one of my favourite Christmas movies I used to watch it over and over every December (though that might just have been because of my childhood crush on Michelle Dockery/Susan Sto Helit)
Yes it would be different to someone who "does not know Discworld like the back of your hand". I was just pleased that they did a pretty good job of the series. (Unlike the horrible disaster of the recent "The Watch". Gaaah) And.....Death speaks directly into your mind so no need for mouth to move. Thanks for the good review!
The problem with the screen adaptations is not just that you lose Pratchett's prose and some of his humour. It's also that you lose quite a lot of the story, and what's left is a sort of child's condensed version. Gaiman managed to avoid this with "Good Omens" by making the screen version long enough to fit in most of the story, plus some useful bonus additions-a remarkable and most unusual achievement.
lol hogfather is my non guilty pleasure every year. watch it a few more times and you'll pick up on things you missed. it totally got me into discworld. though I also have years of 80s fantasy films under my belt so I'm used to weird ass world building.
Alex Wright Lol I have an uncle who reasoned that we should leave Santa a coffee when I was little, due to all the booze he’d be consuming. “Not exactly safe to drink and fly” he’d joke. In hindsight I think it was just because he was a night shift worker.
Old video but no one mentioned it in the comments as far as I can see so here it is: Meat pie and sherry for Santa isn’t a fantasy thing, it’s a British thing. These days the meat pie is replaced with mince pie and the filling gradually morphed into chopped up dried fruit as opposed to pork but the sherry still remained.
Similarly, Harry Potter houses are real British thing as well. I was a Norwood, we had to wear green tie and when we win school competitions, the school is decorated in green, which was basically every year.
Personally, my favorite Pratchett adaptation is Going Postal, which is a two-part miniseries with a great cast and a great combination of comedy and suspense. Hogfather is okay, but Going Postal is fantastic.
I do love this mini series and I have watched it multible times. But I can not say that it i a good adaptation for the reasons you mention in your video, STP being the most wonderful word smith and that not copy from book to screen. I have always seen The Discworld as a parody of our own world. It might be alright to mention that Susans mother was the adopted daughter of DEATH and Mort her father was for a while DEATHS apprentice.
Pratchett readers, do you support my proposal for an adaptation of the Watch novels starring Martin Freeman as Sam Vimes? We could even cast Cumberbatch as Vetinari to optimize fanservice!
Deaths mouth is not supposed to move because he communicates telapathicly.
Ooooh, that's actually part of the character normally? (I haven't read much Discworld yet either, but Death as a character just seems so fascinating in that lore!)
@@NightWatchersPet read Mort and you will learn all about Death in the Discworld.
I thought it was the lack of muscles...
@@hillbillydiva1309 I like how Death didn't really understand how to wink and he'd just randomly blink his eyes in a creepy way
I think it would be clearer if his voice was more echoey, his visage more ethereal, and his gestures less lively.
When the book came out Pterry was doing a signing at a shop near me, I got him to sign a copy for my Dad's birthday. When Dad opened it and read the inscription his face lit up like a kid. A couple of years later I met Pterry again and was able to thank him for helping me give Dad such a great present.
That's wonderful
A friend of mine sent me the novel _Hogfather_ one year, in a Christmas care package, and I read it before seeing the televised adaptation. And yeah -- I was thinking that what was missing in the filmed version was Pratchett's word craft, about a minute before you said it out loud. For one thing, Sir Terry put a lot of expository humor in footnotes on the page that a reader can pause and read, or go back and reread, at their discretion.
And even the memory of reading the climatic scene at the end, and his word craft in those last few pages sends shivers down my spine.
Doh, I missed this comment as I made mine. Ironic, cause I saw the one you commented on about someone saying the same thing and me agreeing with.
Sigh.
@@duncandownham4726 Hey, well. It feeds the algorithm. So's all good!
I absolutely loved Ian Richardson as the voice of Death. The scene where he's warned "Don't try any last-minute stuff!" and intones "I AM 'last-minute stuff'" is just perfect.
I don't think anyone has ever captured Death in print as well as Terry. Neil Gaiman comes a very close second with his version. Who else could make Death so likeable but still be Death?
Hogfather is one of my annual traditions!!! I'm so glad you saw it!
It flabbergasts me that you're not a discworld fan.
Oh, boy do you have a treat ahead of you, getting into the discworld series is a delightful dive into eccentricities very nearly mirroring our own reality :)
The book is about belief. The book Small Gods goes into this more, belief is the food of the gods, with no belief they die to become stories or nothing .It is also lampooning Christmas traditions and notions. As well as something people often forget. Old gods, new jobs. Taking pagan rituals and using them for Christmas. How Jesus shares some traits from Apollo.
"Susan the Granddaughter"
Oh yeah
The Hogfather is fantastic, all three live action adaptions of Sir Terrance of Pratchett's work are worthy, although I think Going Postal may be my favourite. I wish they'd adapt one book a year, it would make a great tradition but they seem to have stopped.
I've heard of The Night Watch being adapted as a mini series
@Юлия Антюфеева I'd heard of Wee Free Men being adapted but so far it hasn't gone anywhere. Hadn't heard of The Night Watch being done but that would be great too.
@@lwaves I've googled it. It's called The Watch and, hopefully, will be released next year. Yay!
@Юлия Антюфеева Oh cool and thanks for doing the googly thing, it saved me from doing it, hahaha!
I wish they'd do the Granny Weatherwax series of books, I really enjoyed them and I think they'd work great on TV.
"Death gets a lot of pages as a character" - Yup, especially in Mort. Death as an apprentice. Loved it!
Not "Death as an apprentice" but "Death has an apprentice" (small correction).
@@jonathan.palfrey forgive the typo. Though technically, Death does get lazy and Mort starts transforming into him, so kinda both :p
@@JennaGetsCreative: A theological argument! However, Death is distinct from Mort and goes on forever (as far as we know). I think it's more a case of Mort beginning to take on Death's attributes-as Susan also does, later. It seems possible for multiple beings to share at least some of these attributes simultaneously, without losing their own separate identity.
Death appears in every single book as at least a cameo IIRC.
Monstrous Regiment is a good entry book to Discworld, it's one of my favorites.
The adaptations of "Hogfather" and "The Colour of Magic" both suffer from writing that assumes the audience has already read the books. The makers filmed the scenes as faithfully as they could to the books but didn't really take a step back and think "does this make sense to someone who doesn't already know what's going on?" The third adaptation in the series, "Going Postal," fares better because they actually made some adjustments to the exposition and the flow of the story to better fit the new medium.
If you like this see if you can find "Going postal" it's another Terry pratchett one, set in the disc world too and it is very enjoyable!
The going postal mini series is my favourite.
@@IshtarNike The Golems are so cute! I just love it!
Can’t decide between whether Jeremy Irons or Charles Dance as the patrician
I didn't like that one.
Agree about Going Postal being the best of these - just preferred the way the story is told compared to the other 2 - I found the narration really helped with keeping things ticking along at a good pace.
It's well worth watching especially if you enjoyed The Hogfather or The Colour of Magic.
You get a thumbs up from me just for your noble attempt to explain this story from an outsider's POV. Bonus points for actually being coherent.
The strongest part about Pratchett in most of his later books (among which Hogfather counts) is the deeper meaning of things - like the power of believe and how it can be manipulated and twisted. Or more the more surface observation about how many (mostly) christian believes are based on old heathen and often quite brutal believes that got converted and changed to fit into modern believes.
It is a good adaption, but the book is just leagues better. If you know the book and watch the mini series you are never confused because of course you know what will happen, but another strong suit of Pratchet was, that in his Discworld novels he kept expanding on the same core elements. While they are not strictly sequels, many pick up and follow set characters. Like how come Susan *IS* the granddaughter of Death. The familiar core elements (and rules) made Hogfather a far easier thing to read even on the first reading because as strange as the concepts are, Pratchet familiarized the reader through novel after novel, exploring the implication further and deeper. What a loss his sickness and death to the world are!
Your observations on why Douglas Adams and Terry Pratchett screen adaptations never quite work due to the author's voice and wordplay being absent are bang on and I thank you for articulating them.
Great review! It was really interesting for me to hear your thoughts. Hogfather is one of my favourite Discworld novels and I really liked the adaptation. I'm glad it worked for someone who didn't know the source material.
As someone who has been reading Discworld novels since the 90's and has pretty much internalized the Discworld as a real place, it's so funny to hear it referred to as weird. Not in a bad way, it's always fun to see how people who are new to the world react to it. :O) You should really read more of the Discorld books, they are among some of the most human stories I have ever read, if that makes sense. Happy Hogswatch to everyone!
Hogfather is one of best Christmas movies/specials ever! I'm so glad you watched it!
Hogfather is already on my annual Christmas playlist and has been since I first saw it, Deaths mouth isn't supposed to move.
I haven't seen it but I read the book several times and read quite a few of other Discworld books. About the monsters under the bed if those children didn't happen to have Death's adopted granddaughter as a governess the adults wouldn't have been able to see the monster and deal with it. It would probably still be real but invisible to adults.
Susan really hated the last governess for telling them about monsters because they're not something people always notice, so she had to deal with them all the time because the kids were aware.
@@Amy-dl9vx I don't think the former governess made the children AWARE of the existence of monsters.
She told them there were monsters in order to make them obedient, and they believed it so strongly that monsters did come into existence.
Terry Pratchetts books helped me through bad times and the death of my parents - first and formost the books about Death (Mort, Hogfather, Grim Reaper). There is something hopefull and bright in this DEATH, that can really give you strengh.
Hogfather is one of my favorite Discworld books, and usually an annual reread around Christmastime. But on the page, it is HILARIOUS. For some reason live action adaptations can't nail his humor, it always comes off as dark, and weird, as you said in your review. Maybe delightfully ironic at best. I think all the humor is in the phrasing and the witty observations that don't translate to film. I mean I laughed so hard I cried at the mall scene. Oh, and if you're interested, the story of Susan's parents, and how she ended up as Death's granddaughter, is in Mort, which is probably the best entry point for Discworld.
Thank you once again for reviewing this! It was a pleasure watching you try and explain this overly complicated premise (I wasn't actually aware in some places the series had been split into three parts, so I do apologize for that).
You did a very spot on analysis, explaining why this adaption can be a challenge to enjoy. The mystery aspect is important and still present in the book; why would anyone want to kill the Hogfather? what does Teatime's plan have to do with the toothfairy? why does Death even care and going out of his way to help? why do we keep cutting back to the Unseen university and the Wizard's machine? It's not made clear where this story is going, but you something is lost in translation without the witty narration alongside it to provide insight to these characters and their motivations.
I'm glad you enjoyed this series enough to watch it a second time and want to read more of the books (and I might come back at a later date to request another Discworld related review :P)
Absolutely love the Hogfather, I’ve been a Pratchett fan since my teacher introduced me to him at age 10. The Hogfather book is absolutely amazing, there is so much interplay between death and Susan, Mr. Teatime is amazing as a villain, and manages to carry off that unhinged vibe.
This, along with Nightmare before Christmas, and the Holiday are required Christmas watches.
If I had to recommend a Pratchett book it would have to be Equal Rites, or Thief of Time, which also involves Susan. If I can afford it in the new year, I’ll send you a copy.
I was planning on getting the book for my son for Christmas. Now knowing there is a TV adaptation makes it an even better idea.
Just a small note - Death's mouth isn't supposed to move. In the books, Death's voice is described as not exactly being "heard" by the characters, as much as the words just arrive in their head. Understandably, this was damn near impossible to properly convey in film format, but they gave it a reasonable shot (with the slightly echo-y, ethereal sound effect whenever Death spoke)
Glad I read through the replies before making my own, 'cause I was just going to say that.
@@CapriUni same :)
Yeah the way it's shown in the books, it's text with a weird capitalization without dialogue quotes.
@Hans Hanzo he is in fact described as the most (or one of the most) real things in reality, more real than even people and physical objects, which is what unsettles most people.
I love Hogfather, and Sir Terry’s voice and perspective is wonderful.
Just jumping off, though, I wanna suggest any of the Witch books. The sub-series that follows the witches are my favorite. Carpe Jugulum I read while young but I adored it. I have some issues with Witches Abroad, in part because I don’t think he was familiar enough or in a position to criticize non-western beliefs, but it was still a truly good book.
Wyrd Sisters was my first Terry Pratchett book. I read it right after our school drama program put on MacBeth. It was fate. But also an acquired taste, if you're not really familiar with Shakespeare, a lot of it goes over your head. I've had mixed success when recommending it.
Omg I love the Hogfather. Death and his granddaughter are always adorable lol
Read the book as a kid and loved it. Disc world is so delightfully quirky but in a sort of “British humour” kind of way.
Even though it’s been a little while since I read a Pratchett novel, I really like the books that have Death (like Mort) and anything with the Witches. Going Postal is also good. Night Watch, Colour of Magic. Oh man I feel like going on a Discworld marathon now haha.
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I recommend The Colour of Magic to you. It’s my favorite Discworld movie and it has such a great soundtrack
I highly recommend you read (at the very least) the Death novels of the Discworld. The Auditors come up often in his books, and they are a great idea for villains. While everyone will make agents of chaos bad guys, Terry Pratchett had the brilliant idea to make bad guys who worship order. Perfect Order.
The genius of Terry Pratchett is amazing. Can only recommend to delve into the Discworld. It's so hard to describe, but just so brilliant. And you are completely right about the books / written works of Pratchett being very hard to put into other media, even audiobooks, because he plays so much with words and spelling of words...I mean, a lot of jokes has to do with words that either sound the same or are spelled alike but have completely different meaning... it's hard to get all the nuances if you aren't actually reading the words yourself. :)
OHMYGOD HOW DID I MISS THIS
I adore the Hogfather and watch it every year. Haven't watched your video yet, I was just so overjoyed you did this!
OMG! i just clicked so I haven't seen but I love that this review is a thing.
HUGE fan. Read almost all the Discworld books. Thank you, and thank you to the pateron? That picked this for you. Thank you again
Please read "Mort" and "Reaper Man" - they explain Susan's background so well without mentioning her at all...She first appeared in "Soul Music" (I think)
And also why the Discworld Death is so odd compared to our own concept of death...
In the england this is on nearly every year, and we watch it together ever year! Love it! And have 1000% nostalgia blindness for it haha
I think santa eats pie and drinks brandy in England he eats porridge in sweden ,diffrent food in diffrent countrys
I dunno about brandy, I'm from the uk and it was always a glass of sherry in our house. A mince pie and a glass of sherry for Santa and a carrot and/or a turnip for the reindeer.
If any of the individuals who are on the patreon want to suggest The Watch when it is released on the BBC, he might enjoy watching it considering it's, from all appearances going to be a loose adaptation of Guards! Guards! for the first season, with certain other characters already being members of the watch earlier on then they were in the novels. And it so far looks awesome from what has been shown from production photos.
Hogfather is my favorite Yule treat! I start my viewing shortly after Thanksgiving.
I love Hogfather. I just watched it sometime during the summer and I may watch it again after watching your fun review. The Colour of Magic is another good one. It features David Jason as the lead character and I think he's fantastic in whatever he's in. Also Tim Curry being evil which is always fun! Thanks Nathaniel! (hope I spelled that correctly)
I haven’t seen it but I have read it for the first time this year. I’m now a discworld convert. I have to agree. His humour is hard to translate on to screen as I seen in good omens, but that’s not a criticism it’s just that these are different mediums
I agree. I'm a massive Pratchett fan, but his books do not translate into the visual medium. Well, for me, anyway.
These stories and characters are simply too 'Terry', making it really difficult to translate them into a show or movie...so far. Maybe one day a very clever person will accomplish this.
Ian Richardson, who narrates and voices Death, was a long-standing British character actor (he was Scottish although that was not always apparent). Among his many roles was the part of Francis Urquhart in the BBC trilogy of dark political comedies in the 1990s that started with House of Cards. (Urquhart was renamed Frank Underwood for the Netflix version with Kevin Spacey.) Albert was played by David Jason, who is very much in National Treasure territory over here in Britain. Mr Teatime is played by Marc Warren, who has also played many different roles (quite a few relying his boyish blond hair and blue eyed routine) but for the Council he will be best (or worst) remembered as Elton in the Love and Monsters episode of Doctor Who. I thought he pretty much carried that story but that's another discussion.
I agree with you about the way a writer like Terry Pratchett or Douglas Adams uses words can be lost in a visually-based adaptation. The TV version of The Hitch-Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy managed to retain Adams' authorial voice by keeping The Book as a major character; unfortunately that was not the case in the later film. But I still prefer the radio Hitch-Hiker's to the TV series and movie; similarly the BBC Radio versions of Pratchett's novels are more successful and faithful to the source. So are the audio books, many of which have been voiced by Nigel Planer (who plays Sideney and the voice of the Auditors in Hogfather) and Tony Robinson (Mr Crumley in Hogfather but who is probably still best known as Baldrick in the Blackadder series).
The Hogfather and Theif of Time are my absolute favourite Prattchet books. I highly recommend both to anyone who likes weirdness in general.
I love Hogfather! I've read it at least every other Christmas since college. Death is one of my favorite Discworld characters - he's really weirdly likeable, and his interactions with Susan, and the raven, and Death of Rats are always terrific. Absolutely read the book if you get the chance. And if you are intrigued by the power of belief in this one, check out Small Gods. Basically, the way that gods and other anthropomorphic personifications work in the Discworld universe is that they get stronger as people believe in them, and weaker or die if people stop believing in them (kind of like in American Gods, come to think of it).
I've been afraid to check out any Discworld films because the books seemed difficult to adapt (there are footnotes, and a bunch of internal thoughts and narrator explanations), but maybe I'll give this one a look. The Good Omens mini series has given me a bit more hope when it comes to adapting a Pratchett-format story.
You make some good points about pacing in movies.
I love the Hogfather book and I felt that the tv series was a good adaptation.
It's such a treat to watch someone discover Discworld! You should check out cartoon adaptations of Wyrd Sisters and Soul Music(Death is voiced by Christopher Lee in that one!).
The Wizard’s guild are pretty much idiots in all of the Disc World novels, especially in the Death centered ones.
A lot of families in the UK really leave Santa sherry or brandy and in Australia they leave beer.
Also your apology is accepted.
Jake Magee father Crimbo
The Discworld is such a great world filled with excellent characters, intriguing stories, and fantastical mysteries.
I would heartily recommend the book "Mort" if you enjoy this world, then proceed to read the Death/Susan series as each book adds more to the character of Death, and Susan is a very likeable character throughout the latter three books of the five book series.
They did it nicely in Good Omens. The narrator IE God was very much the voice of Pratchett and voiced a few of his wonderful footnotes. That being said Susan was wonderful in this, I wish they could have used her for the Thief of time. I will not ruin it but a good starting point would be Mort, Reaper Man and then Soul music to get more on Death and his "family". It was never explained why death took on his Daughter which started all of this. It was implied Susan existed because he wanted to do things but couldn't just due to his nature and also the loneliness of what he is.
its a tradition in our house to watch 'Hogfather' around this time of year. I consider it the best of the three Discworld adaptations. 'Color of Magic' is pretty good, but suffers because they had to cut whole chunks out of the book to make it fit the runtime. I loathe the 'Going Postal' adaptation. It's one of my favourite books and, oh boy, was the dirty done on it. The casting choices for everyone except the Patrician, Moist Von Lipwig and Adora Belle Dearheart were questionable at best, some of the best parts were left out and the ending was unrecognisable. I know a lot of people love it, so don't @ me, please. I'm not saying nobody should love it - just that I don't. The Discworld books can be generally divided up into characters. There's the Rincewind books (The Color of Magic, The Light Fantastic, Sourcery, Eric, Interesting Times, The Last Continent and The Last Hero), the Death books (Mort, Reaper Man, Soul Music, Hogfather, Thief of Time), the Witches books (Equal Rites, Witches Abroad, Lord and Ladies, Maskerade and Carpe Jugulum) and the City Watch series (Guards!, Guards!, Men At Arms, Feet of Clay, Jingo, The Fifth Elephant, Nigh Watch, Thud and Snuff) The rest are either stand-alones, part of the YA series about Tiffany Aching or feature Moist Von Lipwig (Going Postal, Making Money, Raising Steam.) I have tried to pick a favourite character, but I find it impossible, because even side characters are so well developed that you just appreciate them all. Even the bad guys. I never used to believe one person could make an impact on the world, but such a person was Terry Pratchett, and we are all the poorer for his loss.
What I think about it? I disc-overed about 10 years ago and am still in love with it xD
I was never really a fan of the Sky TV adaptations of the Discworld books. They just lacked the magic that Sir Terry put into all his books. And now I’ve upset myself by having to change puts to put because of his passing
Since buying a copy around a decade ago it is to me a highly amusing Christmas film.
For Discworld adaptations, especially Hogfather, two things that will *never* be able to come across in film are:
The Auditors of Reality - They don't speak. They alter your memory so that you remember them speaking. Creating an odd effect that is similar to an auditory only déjà vu.
Nobby Nobbs - An individual so...non-specific that he carries a letter from the Patrician, verifying that in lack of negative proof, Nobby Nobbs is indeed, at least legally, human.
The weirdness is some of what I like so much about this book. My favorite part is where Death takes the place of the shopping"maul" Santa
Death is my FAVORITE discworld character. Then Granny Weatherwax.
You'd probably recognise Mr TeaTime as Elton from Love & Monsters.
I did indeed.
The person playing Death (in the costume) also played the lead Silent in Doctor Who Series 6.
Hogfather is my favorite of the three TV adaptations. I watch it every Christmas Season. The other two are Going Postal and The Colour of Magic (the 1st book in the series). All are worth a watch Also note that Death's granddaughter, Susan, is played by Michelle Dockery before Downton Abbey. She is great.
The odd tone is partly due to Terry Pratchett's mind and the fact that he started the series to mock the adult fantasy genre that rose to prominence in the late '70s and early '80s (e.g. all things Tolkien). Disc world is so odd because it is saturated with magic. Since a flat world cannot hold people down with gravity, Magic is what takes the place of gravity. That is why everything is so odd. Magic saturates the environment. Even the speed of light is slowed down by the magic field it travels through.
One of the best comments I saw was on the back of many of the novels. A benign other world is what they call Discworld. It meant that Pratchett could get away with his philosophical satire on just about any subject as long as it was on Disc. Don't forget your troubles, bring them to Discworld.
Oh! I decided less than an hour ago that I would watch it tonight! And then I just saw your video vignette and said "ooooooooooouuuuuuuuuuuuuuuiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii!!!!!!".
Part of the non-acknowledged weirdness is because a lot of these things are established (either explicitly or implicitly) in previous novels of the Discworld.
The audiobooks for Discworld are worth listening too. It's a great way to listen to the books.
Watch the animated adaption of Soul Music - its on TH-cam. Its the Death story that precedes Hogfather and introduces Susan. Of course, you'll not quite understand without Mort and Reaper man. Also, Hogfather is a deconstruction of Xmas myths and folk legends. Mind you, the miniseries leaves out the best joke in the book, where the Canting Crew open a bonbon and read the "joke" - which is effectively "Help, i've fallen on the rollers and can't get ...... oh a big ink blob obscures the punchline"
That was a great adaption of an amazing book
I urge you to watch Going Postal, a really good adaptation of a wonderful Discworld book.
Discworld is very British. I love his Good Omens
Fun fact, Mr. Teatime is played by Marc Warren, who you might also recognize as Elton Pope from Doctor Who's Love and Monsters.
Sweetie, Diskworld is like if you cross D&D with Monty Python and then take shrooms.
What if Diskworld imagination land where people dreams go. But got disconnected from Earth brainwaves after a certain time.
I love your videos. Especially the fact that you give representation to the LGBTQA+ community. As a bisexual man myself, who has struggled with sexuality and acceptance for a really long time, I just want to say thank you.
Thanks for this cheerful video. I've read the whole Discworld series and seen the screen versions. The quality of the books varies quite a bit; my favourites are "Wyrd Sisters", "Men at Arms", "Night Watch", and "Going Postal". "Monstrous Regiment" is so-so, it reads to me like an unfinished draft, which could have done with further improvement. "Hogfather" is good in parts. The screen versions are quite good attempts, but never as good as the books. I think "Going Postal" is the most successful screen adaptation, it seems quite fun if you just watch it on screen, and the actors are good; but if you read the book, "Oh, this is so much better."
I’ve got it on dvd,I’ve not watched it in a while,this makes me want to watch it again.
Mention of chapters (or lack of) reminded me of the very Pratchett thing that was putting someone's criticism that "he doesn't even write in chapters" as a quote on the back of the book 😂
I think I was around seven or eight when I first saw it, and I eventually loved it. I'm Norwegian and the DVDs didn't have Norwegian dubbing or subtitles, which made it a rather confusing 15 minutes before I gave up (English is my fourth language, and I was only so good at English at the time). When my dad asked if I didn't like the movie, I had to explain that I couldn't translate what they were saying quickly enough. My dad then proceeded to translate the movie in real time for me while we watched it together. It's kind of special to me now :)
It makes much more sense in the book, Discworld is hard to adapt. It helps to understand that in Discworld there is an extra element to the periodical table, narrativium. This means things people believe in become real if they fit a story. It also helps to remember that at heart Terry is a satirist, so things like the Wizards are a satire of real-world things, in their case university academics. The whole of Discworld is a satire of (our) roundworld. Glad you enjoyed it anyway, but most people should read first.
For where to read next in the series, you might enjoy The Watch books, particularly from Feet of Clay onward. A character joins who wants to express their gender in a society that doesn't recognize it, and well you just have to read and see.
Pratchett also makes an appearance in the film which I love! Definitely one of my favourites and Death is my favourite character! Who has seen the cartoon adaptations? Soul Music and Wyrd Sisters - I am not sure if there are others.
You really should check out the 6 part series on Amazon of Good Omens. It's fantastic. 6 part review?
Yeah as someone who read the book multiple times long before seeing this adaptation, I'd say you pretty much nailed it. The adaptation is awkward because so much of Pratchett's appeal is in the narration. And tbh even with the more dialogue based scenes the delivery is slightly off, in my opinion. It's fine but I'd rather just read the book and recommend the book to others.
I'm not exactly sure how to fix it but I think you'd need a team that was as talented at handling the audiovisual medium as Pratchett is at his medium. People who could approach the same kind of humour and worldbuilding from a different angle. And I absolutely think that's doable. I think there are some scenes in Good Omens the TV show that succeed in that for example. That show had a bunch of awkward stuff too but parts of it were great.
Incomprehensible. This video that is. What are you trying to say? You jumping around so much if someone who didn't see the movie or read the book won't understand a single thing here. 7 out of 10
The Hogfather has always been one of my favourite Christmas movies
I used to watch it over and over every December (though that might just have been because of my childhood crush on Michelle Dockery/Susan Sto Helit)
"It's really weird."
*I'm in*
Man I'd love a Sourcery adaptation one day
Yes it would be different to someone who "does not know Discworld like the back of your hand". I was just pleased that they did a pretty good job of the series. (Unlike the horrible disaster of the recent "The Watch". Gaaah)
And.....Death speaks directly into your mind so no need for mouth to move. Thanks for the good review!
Sounds a bit like my favourite film Brazil
Dont forget the animated:
Soul Music:
th-cam.com/video/JIgE23LHgPQ/w-d-xo.html
Wyrd Sisters:
th-cam.com/video/HGKP2vVwcDg/w-d-xo.html
The problem with the screen adaptations is not just that you lose Pratchett's prose and some of his humour. It's also that you lose quite a lot of the story, and what's left is a sort of child's condensed version. Gaiman managed to avoid this with "Good Omens" by making the screen version long enough to fit in most of the story, plus some useful bonus additions-a remarkable and most unusual achievement.
lol hogfather is my non guilty pleasure every year. watch it a few more times and you'll pick up on things you missed. it totally got me into discworld. though I also have years of 80s fantasy films under my belt so I'm used to weird ass world building.
Do Americans only leave cocoa out for Santa?
Leaving sherry or other booze out for Father Christmas is fairly common in Britain.
Alex Wright Lol I have an uncle who reasoned that we should leave Santa a coffee when I was little, due to all the booze he’d be consuming. “Not exactly safe to drink and fly” he’d joke.
In hindsight I think it was just because he was a night shift worker.
Old video but no one mentioned it in the comments as far as I can see so here it is:
Meat pie and sherry for Santa isn’t a fantasy thing, it’s a British thing. These days the meat pie is replaced with mince pie and the filling gradually morphed into chopped up dried fruit as opposed to pork but the sherry still remained.
Similarly, Harry Potter houses are real British thing as well. I was a Norwood, we had to wear green tie and when we win school competitions, the school is decorated in green, which was basically every year.
Personally, my favorite Pratchett adaptation is Going Postal, which is a two-part miniseries with a great cast and a great combination of comedy and suspense. Hogfather is okay, but Going Postal is fantastic.
Did you recognise the actor playing Teatime from Love and Monsters?
OMG I NEVER REALIZED THAT
Immediately.
Mark Warren, Mr Teatime, has an amazing role in Dr Who. Equally weird/creepy(?) but is much nicer and has a really interesting end of his story
I do love this mini series and I have watched it multible times. But I can not say that it i a good adaptation for the reasons you mention in your video, STP being the most wonderful word smith and that not copy from book to screen.
I have always seen The Discworld as a parody of our own world.
It might be alright to mention that Susans mother was the adopted daughter of DEATH and Mort her father was for a while DEATHS apprentice.
I love hogfather!
Ponder Stibbons is quite brilliant
You mean, cast and acted well? Or just Ponder is a excellent character who is a delight whenever he graces the pages/screen?
Huh, fantasy douglas adams... never thought of it like that.
Now I kinda want the two to crossover.
Makes me want to believe in an afterlife where they did meet up and write a story together.
11:47 Apology accepted
Pratchett readers, do you support my proposal for an adaptation of the Watch novels starring Martin Freeman as Sam Vimes?
We could even cast Cumberbatch as Vetinari to optimize fanservice!
If you've watched "Life on Mars", you know who needs to be Vimes. If you haven't, go watch. Edit: Not John Simm!!