I know how a dyno works. But now I know how a dyno works. Cool vid. Most people don’t know HP is a calculation. Torque is the real measurement. When I learned that things became more clear.
I'd love to see a sister video going over the controls for this. How much water it uses, how hot it gets, etc. I've always "conceptually* understood how water dynos work but this is the first time I have seen it explained in a way that totally makes sense
@@12Senna that load sensor he had is measuring how hard the dyno is trying to twist. That load cell is about 1 foot from the center of the dyno, so if it reads 200 lbs, then it means the engine is putting out 200 ft-lbs of torque. You take that along with engine RPM and you have horsepower
@@Modna89 I know this step but first it still need to apply the same torque with the engine input, by my guess is control the amount of water flow by the turbine
As always you're pretty much amazing the knowledge that you've developed over the last I don't know probably 30 or 40 years it's mind-blowing enjoy your videos keep making them thank you
Love your tech videos! The fact that your willing to share just a little slice of your infinite knowledge is awesome! Problem is, a lifelong gearhead like myself, I'm wanting more in depth... Like camshaft development, cylinder head port, combustion chamber design. Valve and seat angles and the effects it has on flow.. Thanks Richard Bentley
Pretty sure there's no one single way of designing cylinder heads for a host of needs turbo vs NA vs torque needs etc a flow bench and a lifetime of experimenting is really where you end up after the initial theory of airflow is taught.
I love what you do here on Steve Tech. You're one of the guys that litterally goes that extra 1/4 of a mile. ......Not good for time slips. 😁😁😁 ...but gains you in respect. You have mine. I was expecting a dyno unit to be 10 times that size.
Love the “I don’t do electronics.” Totally in the same boat. If I can see it and deduce how components apply to one another to produce an outcome, no problem. Electronics and computer crap, no thanks. This man does a great job explaining how mechanical devices work for those of us who brains work that way and couldn’t care less about the computer stuff.
How do you gain this much knowledge about every single aspect of engine building and parts manufacturing to the point where you are redesigning dynos? Simply amazing
dude must have a phd in engineering! lol.. That, or he just has a great mind for engineering! Some people are just like that. That want to know how things work and how they can make them better.
That was very cool...! Always woundered how dynos got the readings...thanks Steve...great video....with those numbers ....there must be alought of upkeep on the dynos....?...!
Just watched this one Steve after you mentioned it in your last video. Absolutely fascinating. I never understood how this worked, This video really helped me understand the basics. Do you build you own dyno from scratch or modify one that you buy?
That's absolutely incredible!! Love the full feed billet brake. You can run dual load cells and average the 2 or 3 together for even higher torque in the Cap'n Insano range.
@@12Senna You are right on. The shaft closet to the motor would have to be strong enough to handle the torque for 3 brakes on a 3 brake system. The second shaft will be to take the torque of the two absorbers resisting it's rotation and the 3rd will only need to handle it's own resistance. Good catch on that one!
I was once told how to make a dirt cheap dyno was to take a trans and put a 12" lever on the output shaft onto a load cell. All you got was torgue but it could show that some changes were good. You had to do the math for horsepower Thanks very informative.
On two stroke bikes engines we call that area the 'Squish' band which is 360 degrees around the head chamber. We keep it around 0.020" which keeps piston crown temps down. That's important because as the under side of the piston dome temp rises...........so does the area in the lower crank case which raises the temp of the incoming fuel charge. That lowers the volumetric effeciencty of the engine. Less power.
Didn’t know about the load cell. We have some in my hydraulic shop at work that are similar but much larger in size. Have a 10k ft/lb one we are setting up.
Is boiling the water an issue on longer runs? Also does cavitation eat the rotors at all? Finally what's the big advantage of a water based absorber vs. an eddy current absorber in this application, is water just a lot less expensive to scale up to this capacity? Excellent videos, I appreciate the info!
Thanks Steve. Not really how I’d imagined it worked, and realistically way less ‘magic’ and much more mechanical. Appreciate you sharing. BTW - am I crazy, or was this video shot earlier than 2021? For whatever reason, you look like a kid in this. 👍👊🇺🇸🤘
Hi Steve, I build experimental and certified aircraft engines. I’m building a new dyno and are curious if you control load by regulating pressure on the inlet side or the outlet? I have always done it on the outlet. Nobody makes dynos for aircraft engines so I have to make everything myself. Thanks love the channel
amazing explanation! I am researching a electro motor dynos had no idea you could create such a load it sounds better as to a electronic brake since is analog/organic resembles natural enviroment better. It does seem there are very complicated thermodynamic and fluid dynamics involved. How do you change the parameters in calculating based on temperature, flow and pressure, after you make changes to the structure of the dyno?
Very cool! I think the absorber measures torque but absorbs horsepower. If you had 1000 lb-ft at 2000 rpm vs 8000 rpm, I think there’d be a difference in how fast the water heated up. Still a very interesting view of your dyno absorbers! Thanks!
if i'm understanding this correctly , the water in the absorber just transfers the load to the load cell irregardless of the number of absorber chambers, amount of water. Higher torque engines would need more or larger absorbers to harness the torque and apply load to load cell. and i dont think water pressure would change the "calibration" of the test. torque measured at 1 foot
Good question, I was wondering the same thing. The load cell can be calibrated easily by the weight since it is a one for one ratio, but it would seem like there are other losses that need to be accounted for.
All the "losses" actually appear as torque. The heat is the excess power being absorbed in order to read how much torque is required to hold it back. So there is no need to account for it to determine the torque. The pillow block bearings on the outside of the housing however do eat into the torque figure a little bit but I doubt he would compensate for that ( but I would, in fact I would use air bearings there). It's Sort of like tractor pull; You don't care how much power its making or how much dirt it throws around, all you want to know is how much weight it can pull and how fast it can pull it. Once you know that, the exact power , accounting for everything, can be calculated.
I see that old rotor has a LOT of cavitation damage, and that was my main question...how do you control cavitation, how do you tell when it is cavitating, and have you messed with different blade angles/curvatures on the rotor (obviously that would make it 1-way)?
Those parts are surprisingly small for the power made! I used to run a 'slightly' bigger Tyler brand that could take ~ 5000 hp/15,000 ft/lbs. Did blow driveline on that, which was hella scary and made a mess!
Hello Steve, I have a couple of Stuska XS-211. How much power you are able to absorb using this venting port as water inlet ? Did you have trouble with the dyno shaft by increasing the torque capacity?
That's very interesting. Do torque convertors in cars operate the same, the oil only stays on the outer rim of the convertor housing? I would think that you would want no air in the oil or water at all. But I suppose that's impossible with the shearing and heat.
So basically the load cell is measuring shear force on the water, converting it into a variable electronic signal to the dynamic forces to measure torque input and horse power is a software generated calculation? With all things even, the amount of water is consistent, the temperature of the shear-force water is kept consistent and the software calculates the rest of the graph based upon the load cell (Stain Gauge) based upon these forces thru the arm sticking off the right side & the rest is all calculated via software? I got it. Being a service manager at a boat dealer, folks may not know the one engine on some twin engine boats ( some use a rubber cushioned hub vulcanized to an input plate) but the props are different. Certain direct drive marine engines fun counter clockwise as for the most part, the camshaft is reverse ground which otherwise the starter is mount facing the engine and not along side it. You may have to order parts indicating engine direction as "Port" or "Starboard" sides. Not to get off topic but the interior of some of these boats are gorgeous as all teak wood everywhere, even the bathrooms. Twin big block 454 cu in with twin blade "Bravo III sterndrives can push a 12,000 pound boat at 42+ MPH and is the closest thing you can get, to going that fast (GPS Confirmed) to sitting on a very fast front room couch. DK, ASE master tech since 78, retired.
Great video Steve. Curious, what you use for that backup safety strap for the potential 3,000+ ft/lb shockload? And do you attach it directly to the main case so that if the bolts in the bracket were to somehow shear off you'd be more likely to minimize the carnage? Also, you mentioned that you previously were breaking the input shafts. How high do the rpm's flash when these monsters you build all of a sudden go from having a massive load to freewheeling? Man, the worst case scenarios sound terrifying!
@@jakefriesenjake If you have an engine that is rapidly accelerating against a big load (the dyno) and that load instantly disappears (broken dyno input shaft) the engine is gonna instantly zing to the moon regardless if spark is present or not
So the vent you added is just a port to let air in because the void created from centrifugal force is at vacuum. So it’s there to keep it from Coke canning (collapsing on itself from the vacuum)?
Torque is a measurement of the pounds of force 1 foot away from the output shaft. The load cell S shaped thing he said he hasn't broken yet. The motor is trying to turn and the water brake (absorber) is resisting the motor from increasing speed (rpm) faster than 300 rpm per second. The amount of brake it has to use is the lbs of force on the load cell. So if he gets a reading of 1500ft-lbs, the motor is twisting the brake with 1500ftlbs and that on the load cell
A guy that is humble and yet don’t mind sharing his knowledge
Wonderful how Mr. Morris explains stuff
Finally a great explication of how an engine dyno functions
He sent the drive shaft through the roof. Truss and all. That was some great information Steve 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
I know how a dyno works. But now I know how a dyno works. Cool vid. Most people don’t know HP is a calculation. Torque is the real measurement. When I learned that things became more clear.
Had no idea.. you explain stuff where even I can understand it
I could watch this stuff all day long. Just knowing and understanding the engineering of all of this is hard to comprehend. Thanks for the info.
Fascinating. Thank you for posting this tech video Steve. Much appreciated.
He ALWAYS does a great job of informing to the common guy. 👏
Steve I really appreciate the information that you're sharing. Thank you for going to the trouble of putting these videos together.
I love watching you tune these big block turbo
engines !😊
Wow look at all the cavitation pits on the rotor! Too cool to see.
often wondered how the mechanic's worked thank you
New sub here….came over from cleetus channel. This guy is a mechanical genius
“Wadder” 🤣 Great info and explanation, I actually understand torque converters better now👌🏼
Great post Steve!, I've often wondered how the dyno works. Thank You for taking the time to make these Steve Tech Videos.
Steve is the man so much knowledge I hope 1 day I could learn as much as he knows !!
Simple but very effective. Another great vid.
Thanks Steve for taking the time out, to explain and show the various topics covered.
Cheers, Adam.
Some amazing learnings in that video. Thank you. I never knew how a water brake works until now. Love from New Zealand to you :D
I'd love to see a sister video going over the controls for this. How much water it uses, how hot it gets, etc. I've always "conceptually* understood how water dynos work but this is the first time I have seen it explained in a way that totally makes sense
yeep, i still can't total understand after the video,by how to measure the torque equal to input
@@12Senna that load sensor he had is measuring how hard the dyno is trying to twist. That load cell is about 1 foot from the center of the dyno, so if it reads 200 lbs, then it means the engine is putting out 200 ft-lbs of torque. You take that along with engine RPM and you have horsepower
@@Modna89 I know this step but first it still need to apply the same torque with the engine input, by my guess is control the amount of water flow by the turbine
@@12Senna oh yes exactly. The more water allowed in, the more the dyno fills up, the more resistant it is to rotation
That makes so much sense in my mind seeing it visually as well thanks man you're the champ
Great info.
Always wondered how dumps worked.
Thanks for explaining.
👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻🍷
As always you're pretty much amazing the knowledge that you've developed over the last I don't know probably 30 or 40 years it's mind-blowing enjoy your videos keep making them thank you
Hugely informative, nice details. Helped a lot, thank you!
Had no clue. How interesting. Thanks Steve.
These are great videos I always wonder how those dynos held that kind of power...thanks man
Thanks Steve. As per all the other comments, great information. I've always wondered about the inner workings of these things; now I know. Cheers.
You are a very knowledgeable man Steve! It would be an honor to be able to work under your automotive knowledge!
Thank you Steve for your perfect explanation😊
Love your tech videos! The fact that your willing to share just a little slice of your infinite knowledge is awesome! Problem is, a lifelong gearhead like myself, I'm wanting more in depth... Like camshaft development, cylinder head port, combustion chamber design. Valve and seat angles and the effects it has on flow..
Thanks Richard Bentley
Pretty sure there's no one single way of designing cylinder heads for a host of needs turbo vs NA vs torque needs etc a flow bench and a lifetime of experimenting is really where you end up after the initial theory of airflow is taught.
Thank you, I did learn something today. Really interesting, appreciate it.
Great lesson. Very good video. Thanks Steve
America would benefit greatly by having more Steve's! ❤️🤍💙 THANK YOU!
Hi from NZ. This was such a good video. I learned heaps. Thanks Rex
Love the tech!!! Always wondered!!!
This was way cool Steve, thanks for the lesson !1
Very interesting video. Thanks for sharing.
Very informative video. Thanks a lot
Really interesting man. Thank you the inside information.
Great explaination.
Excellent explanation.
I love what you do here on Steve Tech.
You're one of the guys that litterally goes that extra 1/4 of a mile.
......Not good for time slips. 😁😁😁
...but gains you in respect. You have mine. I was expecting a dyno unit to be 10 times that size.
Love the “I don’t do electronics.” Totally in the same boat. If I can see it and deduce how components apply to one another to produce an outcome, no problem. Electronics and computer crap, no thanks. This man does a great job explaining how mechanical devices work for those of us who brains work that way and couldn’t care less about the computer stuff.
Nice info, well explained..thanx👍🤠
Great look inside an absorber, thanks!
Steve, I had never seen the inside of a water brake before. It was interesting to see the fins inside the brake / torque converter. Thank you.
Excellent video!
Great content thanks for sharing, very informative
How do you gain this much knowledge about every single aspect of engine building and parts manufacturing to the point where you are redesigning dynos? Simply amazing
dude must have a phd in engineering! lol.. That, or he just has a great mind for engineering! Some people are just like that. That want to know how things work and how they can make them better.
Great explanation!!!
Awesome thanks for the explanation
Very good tutorial. 👍
Good video, i too would like the calibration process and electronics behind it.👍
That was very cool...! Always woundered how dynos got the readings...thanks Steve...great video....with those numbers ....there must be alought of upkeep on the dynos....?...!
I'd like to see a slow motion video of that driveshaft going through the roof! Cool video thanks
Thank you Sir!!! It was voodoo behind the motor as far as I knew. Wondering what kind of flow rates you have with all that sheared water.
Just watched this one Steve after you mentioned it in your last video. Absolutely fascinating. I never understood how this worked, This video really helped me understand the basics. Do you build you own dyno from scratch or modify one that you buy?
That's absolutely incredible!! Love the full feed billet brake. You can run dual load cells and average the 2 or 3 together for even higher torque in the Cap'n Insano range.
maybe not that easy to make it works, input shaft on first turbine may have failure
@@12Senna You are right on. The shaft closet to the motor would have to be strong enough to handle the torque for 3 brakes on a 3 brake system. The second shaft will be to take the torque of the two absorbers resisting it's rotation and the 3rd will only need to handle it's own resistance.
Good catch on that one!
@@curvs4me well, as a graduate of engineer for one year, should be count as basic judgment 😏👌
Thank you Brother! I learned something I didn't know. Good stuff!! God's blessing... Acts 20:24
Thank you Steve!!!!
I was once told how to make a dirt cheap dyno was to take a trans and put a 12" lever on the output shaft onto a load cell. All you got was torgue but it could show that some changes were good. You had to do the math for horsepower Thanks very informative.
That wouldn't work because torque converters actually multiply the torque. The dynos use a fluid coupling that don't multiply torque.
On two stroke bikes engines we call that area the 'Squish' band which is 360 degrees around the head chamber. We keep it around 0.020" which keeps piston crown temps down. That's important because as the under side of the piston dome temp rises...........so does the area in the lower crank case which raises the temp of the incoming fuel charge. That lowers the volumetric effeciencty of the engine. Less power.
This is exactly how I thought these worked, but I never knew for sure. Cool.
Didn’t know about the load cell. We have some in my hydraulic shop at work that are similar but much larger in size. Have a 10k ft/lb one we are setting up.
Is boiling the water an issue on longer runs? Also does cavitation eat the rotors at all? Finally what's the big advantage of a water based absorber vs. an eddy current absorber in this application, is water just a lot less expensive to scale up to this capacity? Excellent videos, I appreciate the info!
Yes!👊🙏 I just got learnt
9👍's up Steve M thanks again for taking us all along with you for the rest of the story
Put a vent on either side of the water inlet and just install a solenoid on each vent so the correct vent will be open when running either direction.
Thanks Steve. Not really how I’d imagined it worked, and realistically way less ‘magic’ and much more mechanical. Appreciate you sharing.
BTW - am I crazy, or was this video shot earlier than 2021? For whatever reason, you look like a kid in this. 👍👊🇺🇸🤘
👍🏼 very cool 😎
Awesome!
Loved it
This man spitting straight facts
Thanks for sharing link wondering why link was not posted. Thanks steve
BIG THANX!
Hi Steve, I build experimental and certified aircraft engines. I’m building a new dyno and are curious if you control load by regulating pressure on the inlet side or the outlet? I have always done it on the outlet. Nobody makes dynos for aircraft engines so I have to make everything myself. Thanks love the channel
Thank you!
amazing explanation! I am researching a electro motor dynos had no idea you could create such a load it sounds better as to a electronic brake since is analog/organic resembles natural enviroment better. It does seem there are very complicated thermodynamic and fluid dynamics involved. How do you change the parameters in calculating based on temperature, flow and pressure, after you make changes to the structure of the dyno?
Very cool! I think the absorber measures torque but absorbs horsepower. If you had 1000 lb-ft at 2000 rpm vs 8000 rpm, I think there’d be a difference in how fast the water heated up. Still a very interesting view of your dyno absorbers! Thanks!
if i'm understanding this correctly , the water in the absorber just transfers the load to the load cell irregardless of the number of absorber chambers, amount of water. Higher torque engines would need more or larger absorbers to harness the torque and apply load to load cell. and i dont think water pressure would change the "calibration" of the test. torque measured at 1 foot
Common sense. Steve says like this so -> this should work! I'm golden! 😂🤣😂🤣😂😂
very cool. How do you calibrate the dynos? Do you somehow take into account the energy spent in heating the water?
Good question, I was wondering the same thing. The load cell can be calibrated easily by the weight since it is a one for one ratio, but it would seem like there are other losses that need to be accounted for.
All the "losses" actually appear as torque. The heat is the excess power being absorbed in order to read how much torque is required to hold it back. So there is no need to account for it to determine the torque. The pillow block bearings on the outside of the housing however do eat into the torque figure a little bit but I doubt he would compensate for that ( but I would, in fact I would use air bearings there). It's Sort of like tractor pull; You don't care how much power its making or how much dirt it throws around, all you want to know is how much weight it can pull and how fast it can pull it. Once you know that, the exact power , accounting for everything, can be calculated.
steve you have a unique way of saying "water". Im from the south, its strange hearing it pronounced properly.
I'm from Arkansas so I noticed that same thing he definitely sounds like he is from the north
I see that old rotor has a LOT of cavitation damage, and that was my main question...how do you control cavitation, how do you tell when it is cavitating, and have you messed with different blade angles/curvatures on the rotor (obviously that would make it 1-way)?
Those parts are surprisingly small for the power made! I used to run a 'slightly' bigger Tyler brand that could take ~ 5000 hp/15,000 ft/lbs. Did blow driveline on that, which was hella scary and made a mess!
I made a dyno in fluid power college.
Used a hydraulic pump, flow meter, and some math.
Awesome info and it makes me wonder how the “load cell” works. Does it measure the stretch?
It's like a regular bathroom scale, but larger.
Curious if Fluidampr might be able to design you a custom damper for your engine dyno tool?
Hello Steve, I have a couple of Stuska XS-211. How much power you are able to absorb using this venting port as water inlet ? Did you have trouble with the dyno shaft by increasing the torque capacity?
Everyone knows, doesn't matter how many people are standing around, only the boss can operate the dyno.
Great video Steve Can i ask do you change the water pressure going in as the engine rpm rises or is it just a constant tap pressure
I also wonder about the correlation between the water pressure and engine loading, and how it’s applied.
That's some shop, full of adult candy!
That's very interesting. Do torque convertors in cars operate the same, the oil only stays on the outer rim of the convertor housing? I would think that you would want no air in the oil or water at all. But I suppose that's impossible with the shearing and heat.
So basically the load cell is measuring shear force on the water, converting it into a variable electronic signal to the dynamic forces to measure torque input and horse power is a software generated calculation? With all things even, the amount of water is consistent, the temperature of the shear-force water is kept consistent and the software calculates the rest of the graph based upon the load cell (Stain Gauge) based upon these forces thru the arm sticking off the right side & the rest is all calculated via software? I got it.
Being a service manager at a boat dealer, folks may not know the one engine on some twin engine boats ( some use a rubber cushioned hub vulcanized to an input plate) but the props are different. Certain direct drive marine engines fun counter clockwise as for the most part, the camshaft is reverse ground which otherwise the starter is mount facing the engine and not along side it.
You may have to order parts indicating engine direction as "Port" or "Starboard" sides.
Not to get off topic but the interior of some of these boats are gorgeous as all teak wood everywhere, even the bathrooms. Twin big block 454 cu in with twin blade "Bravo III sterndrives can push a 12,000 pound boat at 42+ MPH and is the closest thing you can get, to going that fast (GPS Confirmed) to sitting on a very fast front room couch.
DK, ASE master tech since 78, retired.
Great video Steve.
Curious, what you use for that backup safety strap for the potential 3,000+ ft/lb shockload? And do you attach it directly to the main case so that if the bolts in the bracket were to somehow shear off you'd be more likely to minimize the carnage?
Also, you mentioned that you previously were breaking the input shafts. How high do the rpm's flash when these monsters you build all of a sudden go from having a massive load to freewheeling?
Man, the worst case scenarios sound terrifying!
Those are excellent questions!
Oh don't worry. I'm sure they have an msd box with an rpm limiting chip.
@@jakefriesenjake rev limiter does not / would not help in that scenario
@@toddformanek8495 some boxes have a 2 stage rev limiter, that should take care of it.
@@jakefriesenjake If you have an engine that is rapidly accelerating against a big load (the dyno) and that load instantly disappears (broken dyno input shaft) the engine is gonna instantly zing to the moon regardless if spark is present or not
Steve I can't believe how much you look like Kyle. I've never noticed it before.
So the vent you added is just a port to let air in because the void created from centrifugal force is at vacuum. So it’s there to keep it from Coke canning (collapsing on itself from the vacuum)?
What type of dyno dose the “Dyno Smith” use? Giant marine & truck engines thanks
This was very educational. Im still wondering how it determines how much torque is being made.
Torque is a measurement of the pounds of force 1 foot away from the output shaft. The load cell S shaped thing he said he hasn't broken yet. The motor is trying to turn and the water brake (absorber) is resisting the motor from increasing speed (rpm) faster than 300 rpm per second. The amount of brake it has to use is the lbs of force on the load cell. So if he gets a reading of 1500ft-lbs, the motor is twisting the brake with 1500ftlbs and that on the load cell
will Devel Sixteen 5000HP Quad-Turbo V16 Engine work on a pickup truck that has Axletech PSC5494s axles and LSW 1400 tires?