How to Steer a Sail Boat or Power Boat Using A Drogue or Fabric Sea Anchor In Case of Steering Loss

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ก.ย. 2021
  • Hello Friends,
    This is a video where I explain the system I used to sail my 30 sailboat 1000 miles / 18 days to Hawaii using a rigid sea drogue for steering after my rudder was disabled due to striking a submerged object.
    I have made a "Manual" that is available for free download and can be saved as a PDF or printed out and placed on your boat for future reference in case you every find yourself with no steering. You can view and download the manual here: drive.google.com/file/d/1-Fhl...
    In this video I break down he basics and explain what you need for setting up a system before hand and give you suggestions for improvising a system on the fly. I also talk about the process of learning how to tune the system and what worked for me. Different types of boats will have slightly different set ups and needs but with this information you should be able to work something out that fits your vessel.
    A long format episode documenting my ocean passage that resulted in my steering loss can be seen here: • Sailing Alone Across a...
    If you enjoy the channel please "Like" the videos and Subscribe so you don't miss any future episodes.
    If you find the videos helpful or entertaining and would like to contribute become a Patron at: / sailorjames
    or if you would prefer to make a one time contribution you can send it via PAYPAL to jamesthesailorman@gmail.com
    Fair Winds,
    James
    JOIN THE PATREON CREW:
    Patreon: / sailorjames
    Website: svtriteia.com
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    / james.the.sailor.man

ความคิดเห็น • 225

  • @kirenireves
    @kirenireves 2 ปีที่แล้ว +52

    THANK YOU!! Such good info! Your "adventure" losing your rudder means the rest of us are more prepared!

  • @xenu-dark-tony
    @xenu-dark-tony 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    This is a life-saver. Somebody is going to continue living because of your video. That is massive.

  • @dustinlittle1765
    @dustinlittle1765 2 ปีที่แล้ว +16

    Your last video was your Mona Lisa. And this one is exactly what I was hoping for after. Enjoy paradise, heal your heart, and revel in your self accomplishment. Thank you for the videos, a true inspiration.

  • @tonyhill5418
    @tonyhill5418 2 ปีที่แล้ว +42

    I'm sure he is sitting there telling you how to potentially save your boat and more importantly your life, and not one but two dummies hit the thumbs down. It's impressive that you sailed that far without a rudder, you are a true sailor.

    • @christip20
      @christip20 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      I was thinking the same thing, the “willfully blind”!🍄

    • @jamaya500
      @jamaya500 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      hardcore sailing is not for the weak, a true sailor indeed.

    • @smokingun397
      @smokingun397 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I just hit the thumbs down on your comment just to annoy you :-)

  • @Kevin-xs6oj
    @Kevin-xs6oj 2 ปีที่แล้ว +27

    You are the man!
    What an amazing and epic battle you had. Your team was incredible.
    Thank you for this very important lesson. I am going to engineer and build a system to be deployed based on your design. No reason to wait for a event to occur. As you know, being prepared is what it’s all about!
    Thank you so much!
    Happy trails

  • @mandostudent
    @mandostudent 2 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    Dude! I've watched you from the beginning of your vids. From a newbie, making all the mistakes we all do, to a Coast Guard Captain. Now you are becoming a damn legend! Really good comprehensive vid on emergency steering! Look forward to more adventures. Maybe Cape Horn? Cheers!

  • @TristanRush-oy2yy
    @TristanRush-oy2yy ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Cheers to you and your team! Downloading the PDF now. Setting the headsail in the backwind to stabilize while using the motor and drogue is brilliant!

  • @layrathompson2869
    @layrathompson2869 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I no longer sail, but watching with fascination.. and to be alone at sea.. wow.. I'm going to rewatch that sail

  • @SteveeCee
    @SteveeCee 2 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    James, you are an inspiration - well done for sharing your experience!!

  • @phuzzo1
    @phuzzo1 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    It's hard to imagine how stressful that whole situation would have been. The psychological aspect is at least as important as the technical here and getting the drogue system working to any degree must have lifted your spirits tremendously.

  • @xenu-dark-tony
    @xenu-dark-tony 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Honestly, how many of us could have dreamed up this system without help? I honestly wouldn't have stood a chance. I may have found the drogue had an effect, but frankly I'd have been so ham-fisted it would have been laughable. This system is incredible.

  • @melee401
    @melee401 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    Good dissertation James. You did VERY well with what all you had to work with. Thankfully you had the Sea Squid aboard. I have some doubts as to a fabric drone running for that amount of time.

  • @weedknoll
    @weedknoll 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    This is awesome info! Thanks James. So happy you're safe.

  • @stewarthenderson8027
    @stewarthenderson8027 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Thanks for putting together the Manual James. Much appreciated. Now to make sure my boat is equipped with suitable emergency items.

  • @colinwinters6140
    @colinwinters6140 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Thanks James. You are truly an inspiration to me. Stay safe.

  • @AXISMEDIATV
    @AXISMEDIATV 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Holy Hell- amazing- really appreciate all the hard work you've put into this series and all the advice- especially the Book!

  • @stevev5510
    @stevev5510 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Bloody champion James. You are one hell of a Mariner.

  • @herberteidt6039
    @herberteidt6039 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great description. Having options like this are the key to getting home safely. Well done!

  • @shootsscores181
    @shootsscores181 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    That was an amazing feat getting that drouge steering going, very cool, and great info!

  • @timshull59
    @timshull59 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I don't shit about sailing, but find your videos extremely interesting!

  • @Andreas.Akerstrom
    @Andreas.Akerstrom 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Thanks for making this, sharing your experiences of what worked for you and some insight into why it worked for you and why it might not work the same for others.
    I'm seriously impressed with how you handled this trip, and how you managed to get productive. Very easy to dispair and give up when facing so much. Take care, man!

  • @benkanobe7500
    @benkanobe7500 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank You for passing this forward. I am very happy you did.

  • @dougkolz3332
    @dougkolz3332 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you for the excellent explanation! Glad it worked out for you. Keeping your head through all of that was a job well done. Go enjoy Hawaii ‘cause you certainly earned it!

  • @tiaramisu
    @tiaramisu 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Great Video James! So happy for you. Going through something like that changes a man for better every time! Enjoy the islands!

  • @chrismitchum452
    @chrismitchum452 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Yeah, I watched the last vid and couldn't believe how calm you stayed in that situation. Killer sailing brother. and great info!!

  • @AndreanoCelentano
    @AndreanoCelentano หลายเดือนก่อน

    A treasure trove of practical info, thank you!

  • @codysp
    @codysp 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you for sharing this! I've been preparing for my transition from a land lover to the sea where my heart belongs. This was probably one of the most valuable things I've learned. 👍

  • @Sailit143
    @Sailit143 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    James, THANK YOU for posting the "Manual"

  • @sjoertebben
    @sjoertebben 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Thanks a million for sharing this! I saw your other video with the rudder faillure and wondered how you managed but his vid and the manual explains the lot. I think I would have freaked out completely after a rudder failure, but you kept your cool. Impressive.

  • @scamp151964
    @scamp151964 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great video with excellent simple explanations, thank-you.

  • @tvonzweck
    @tvonzweck 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you James. Trying to picture that on my canoe stern with a wind vane, Oh my. Your solid advice is always appreciated.

  • @donnakawana
    @donnakawana 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Thanks for this information. I so appreciate how in detail this is. James your brilliant an I really enjoyed this episode an learned so very much!

  • @daveg4963
    @daveg4963 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Never even been on a sailboat before but this is all fascinating stuff! Good job mate.

  • @wiserman100
    @wiserman100 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great tutorial on a lifesaving topic. Thanks for explaining this so well. It would behoove all sailors to practice this before they actually need it.

  • @scott09900
    @scott09900 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great video. I wish more sailing channels had a break down like this to really educate sailors. Thanks for going into detail. You made another fan and judging from the other comments many other fans.

  • @andresboatshed7018
    @andresboatshed7018 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I am impressed by your content !
    You did great under presure!
    The Solution for a Problem is
    what make your content real valuable!
    Stay on course!

  • @peterashworth1264
    @peterashworth1264 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    McGyver rocks. Fascinating. Thanks for sharing. I will remember when its its my turn!

  • @jonathanwise47
    @jonathanwise47 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Just found your channel. Amazing trip to Hawaii. Good information here. Thanks for sharing.

  • @nickcain1508
    @nickcain1508 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    A lot to learn from your vlogs James. Thx mate 👍🇦🇺

  • @thestorminmymind
    @thestorminmymind 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Amazing video, only just stared following you and watch 2 videos, this is unbelievably valuable information, thanks so much for sharing this.
    I shall be catching up with you previous videos.
    Top guy... Fair seas dude

  • @WillN2Go1
    @WillN2Go1 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Joined your Patreon. Seems a bargain. Support an inspiring sailor, whose videos are a masters class. I've also downloaded and printed out your Emergency Steering PDF. Very educational. Thank you James.

  • @arismavros
    @arismavros 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great video!
    Super info and well explained
    Kudos for bringing her in safe Capt

  • @davidsmart8594
    @davidsmart8594 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you for posting this, because I didn't quite understand it during the passage video, which was also so good that I didn't want to 'rewind'.

  • @yes0sir0danish0man
    @yes0sir0danish0man 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Thanks for an instructive video i will download and put it in my sailboat👍 and again James you are viking🇩🇰

  • @doneddy2204
    @doneddy2204 ปีที่แล้ว

    Truly appreciate your sharing real life experience. Who knows how many ways you just paid it forward 👍

  • @youtub1234567891011
    @youtub1234567891011 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Excellent practical advice. Sea Anchors are very useful. .. especially on the smaller sail kayaks I have used. I have not needed to use it for an emergency rudder but this knowledge is super useful if you ever need it. Thank you !

  • @sussman00
    @sussman00 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great video James! It was a treat to meet you on Oahu. I’m looking forward to hearing about your next adventure.

  • @SamCyanide
    @SamCyanide 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Wow. Thank you so much. This is invaluable information. The PDF is great too

  • @JonathanVanVuren
    @JonathanVanVuren 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great information, and I appreciate you taking the time to help. Not to sound cheesy, but you’re caring has made the world a bit better of a place. Thank You!

    • @SailorJames
      @SailorJames  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I am happy to help 🙏🏻

  • @clivestainlesssteelwomble7665
    @clivestainlesssteelwomble7665 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Good stuff james i linked your story to some friends who lost their engine and then rudder to Orcas off the coast of Portugal.
    They had to call for a tow and that cost them a packet.

  • @matthewmitchell5617
    @matthewmitchell5617 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you for sharing this with us!

  • @svzaftra18
    @svzaftra18 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Super informative. Thanks man!!

  • @jenniferackerman5628
    @jenniferackerman5628 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Awesome information! Thank you!

  • @BevMtnGds
    @BevMtnGds ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Excellent presentation.

  • @kptbillburkett8735
    @kptbillburkett8735 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    VERY GOOD INFO! Very Good!
    Thank You for your time ⏲ on this.
    I would love to see more on the damage to the Rutter. And the repairs you are going to have to make to it.
    Ok untell next week, Aloha from the Big Island 🏝 of Hawaii 🏝

  • @pakratunloading
    @pakratunloading 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I'm looking at a 30' Alberg, 70's model as a retirement project. Your refit videos and the such will help me greaty. I'm glad you made it safely to Hawaii, and I really enjoyed your drogue content.

    • @johnbrooks1188
      @johnbrooks1188 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I have a 1967 A30. Don't discount the older (pre-1970s) Mark I version like mine and Treitea. Besides not having an interior liner, the older boats have decks cored with pegboard (masonite) instead of end-grain balsa). Plan on reinforcing mast step (beam below deck) and forward lower chainplates,. Replace through hulls, and replace rudder hinge pin and pintle/gudgeon bolts. A boat that has had all of these addressed, is a real plus. They are wonderful boats. Watch Jean-du-Sud Around the World (that one is somewhat modified). Rig size and displacement is very similar to newer Alberg Cape Dory 28, but I think the A30 is prettier (Sorry Sam Holmes, who is cruising Europe on his CD 28!).

  • @JG-qz6fq
    @JG-qz6fq 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Such good info, thank you so much for sharing your experience!

  • @jeanniechow4620
    @jeanniechow4620 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    It's a sailor fear to loose steerage but u handled it and stayed on course to Oahu, u have seamanship skills that's for sure. Enjoy ur videos, thank u for sharing.

  • @SailingSeaDreamofClyde
    @SailingSeaDreamofClyde 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks for sharing! I am gearing towards setting off on my first offshore passage next year, likely also to Hawaii. My boat came with a Hydrovane, which steers the boat well as a windvane, or as an emergency rudder. It also came with a beefy drogue, and thanks to your video, I now have the knowledge the if my main rudder and Hydrovane rudder both bit the dust, there is another approach to get the boat to shore!

    • @RomboutVersluijs
      @RomboutVersluijs 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Im no sailor, let me make this clear. If you still have a year left, wouldnt it be smart to test his technique out. You can prepare basically where he could not. I think being be prepared also makes you a lot calmer when it does happen.

  • @janliljeberg3769
    @janliljeberg3769 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks, James for sharing!

  • @richardp1522
    @richardp1522 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    James I followed you on your voyage to Hawaii via Predict Wind what a nail biter thanks for continuing to provide your written updates. The daily posts read as written by a sailor in control of a totally uncontrollable situation. I have to believe the vast majority of sailors in the same situation would have simply given up and waited for assistance from others ultimately leaving their boat to the ocean. No doubt the assistance you received from your shore team was key but who put it in place as part of the voyage plan, you. Don't under estimate your skill as a sailor, ability to remain calm and receive the suggestions provided by others. Additionally the preparedness of Triteia before you left the dock played huge into the voyages success even without a working rudder.
    Thanks for providing such a detailed explanation of drogues and their use for steering a vessel with a damaged rudder. Some day a very fortunate sailor will benefit from this information possibly even saving lives.

  • @demetrisdemetrious8702
    @demetrisdemetrious8702 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks for this video man,
    I have been thinking about if this problem occurred
    Now I have a good idea as to what I can do
    Excellent directions and well explained
    Thanks

  • @petterlamas968
    @petterlamas968 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    This is gold, thanks!

  • @edwardfinn4141
    @edwardfinn4141 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    James,
    BRAVO, BRAVO.
    What an accomplishment!
    Drogues in general, sea anchors, Jordan series drogues, etc are very controversial issue in the world of cruising in a small boat,
    and there is a lot of BS on line about the topic.
    Your perseverance and ingenuity through this ordeal is incredible.
    You deserve an award , in recognition of your determination and seamanship, and in addition your video recording the whole ordeal, is unique.
    I think you deserve an award, such as Rolex sailor of the year, world cruising club recognition, or some other notable recognition…
    You’re the man!
    And having survived this ordeal is gonna make you famous!

  • @dennisgrosen1815
    @dennisgrosen1815 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    thanks for let us nowing this can be made with a sea anker ,something i learned 30 years ago reading an very old book about tallships were they called it a china rudder since they used a waterbarrel to rig the stearing with, good job 👍😊

  • @daveweston9569
    @daveweston9569 ปีที่แล้ว

    That was so interesting…well done buddy

  • @michaelosmon
    @michaelosmon 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I appreciate you sir. Thank you for sharing your time and experience

  • @ianredwood792
    @ianredwood792 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you - very useful and informative

  • @EpoxyAndButylTape
    @EpoxyAndButylTape 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Well done video James. Another source for a free steering drogue is a decommissioned life raft, they usually have a fabric one with plenty of line. The one I have is about 16.5” diameter.

  • @jmburbach
    @jmburbach 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great info thanks! Interested to see what's next for you!

  • @andymarshall2201
    @andymarshall2201 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great video, glad it all worked out for you

  • @bjornlarsson7624
    @bjornlarsson7624 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you, very good info!

  • @Dozz70
    @Dozz70 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Excellent Information! Thank You

  • @The_Dark_Shark
    @The_Dark_Shark 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great info!!!

  • @samaipata4756
    @samaipata4756 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you for this highly educational video, job well done! A collision on the rudder while doing 4-5 knots, who would have imagined?! But here we learned it can happen! This video I’m sure will help many of us to sail well prepared for the un expected!
    What still scares me is, hearing more and more about collisions out in the open sea, with submerged objects, particular lost containers. Perhaps you were even lucky it only struck your rudder.
    Happy to know you managed the situation so well and you are safe and sound. Best wishes, fair winds and may you be looking forward to a happy new future after the turbulence you had to go through.👍✌️👏👏👏⛵️

    • @SailorJames
      @SailorJames  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thanks ! Yeah I looked up the stats once on land and 3000 containers were lost overboard in 2020 😳

  • @NorthPoleTime
    @NorthPoleTime 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks. Great info!

  • @diegodevops4151
    @diegodevops4151 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great video! Learned a lot.

  • @Jensen_Denmark
    @Jensen_Denmark 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great info James, thanks. Greetings from Denmark

  • @michaelcee8348
    @michaelcee8348 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    mucho thnx. now i feel much better re a rudder loss. impeccable

  • @JoaoRodrigues-mx1ub
    @JoaoRodrigues-mx1ub 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Obrigado pela sua explicação,espectacular. Sempre é bom que alguém nos possa ajudar nesses momentos de aflição. Felicidades. Abraços do seu atento português.

  • @Turf1able
    @Turf1able 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I watched the video of your venture sailing to Hawaii when your rudder broke. I had to "look up" what a drogue was. It then brought me to this video of you addressing that issue. Fascinating! Thank you. :)

    • @Turf1able
      @Turf1able 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Absolutely wonderful explanation of the process and SO easy to understand what you are talking about while explaining the challenges and adjustments needed to do this. Just WOW!

    • @SailorJames
      @SailorJames  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

    • @Turf1able
      @Turf1able 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@SailorJames I basically never actually subscribe .....but I did here! Safe travels!

  • @enigmacode_1
    @enigmacode_1 ปีที่แล้ว

    Subscribed! 🔔 Shared, liked, fav-added and downloaded (the 'Manual'). Thank you, Capt.

    • @SailorJames
      @SailorJames  ปีที่แล้ว

      🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

  • @davidgiles5030
    @davidgiles5030 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Huge RESPECT.

  • @iherok
    @iherok 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    THANKS for the explanation and the pdf. I really hope i'll never have to use it. But it's good know how to potentially handle a similar situation.

  • @ianfirth-clark5975
    @ianfirth-clark5975 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you James that may very well save someone's life one day

  • @rodmeisterful
    @rodmeisterful 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Super helpful.

  • @cseguin
    @cseguin 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Thanks for taking the time to share this and for making the manual. It might come in handy over the next months when I will probably be towing a 42' gutted ferro sailboat without a rudder with my trawler . . . should be interesting. If you have any tips about such things that would be great . . . or if anyone does - the more I know the safer it will be. Thanks again.

    • @SailorJames
      @SailorJames  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      This will totally work for that purpose 👍🏻

    • @cseguin
      @cseguin 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@SailorJames I'm just about done watching - and, yes, I do believe this will work just fine. It's a pretty straight course running up the inside coast of Vancouver Island . . . we'll see what happens - the _deal_ hasn't been made yet. The boat is free, and I just can't pass it up. I have to make arrangements to go have a look next week. Hopefully it's a diamond in the rough that's just needs a little time, money and patience to finish.

  • @user-hv5kv5rg9r
    @user-hv5kv5rg9r 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Mahalo, good info. I watched one of your videos leaving Hawaii, I guess this was on the return. I live on the big island and have a trailer sailor. It’s six year waiting list for a slip. I couldn’t wait.

    • @SailorJames
      @SailorJames  2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      This was when I arrived to Hawaii

  • @00708046
    @00708046 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    This is something people should try to do outside emergency conditions . He was lucky to have 2 captains on standby that had knowledge and experience with drogues and drogue steering.

  • @hakeem4802
    @hakeem4802 ปีที่แล้ว

    We appreciate the educational video. Next you'll be known as "Professor" Captain James. 😆 . But seriously, appreciate it and going to read your PDF.

    • @SailorJames
      @SailorJames  ปีที่แล้ว

      I actually get paid to lecture at several universities in NYC a few times a year just not on the subject of boat 📚

  • @gordonramsey8339
    @gordonramsey8339 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great info - thank you

  • @peterives8931
    @peterives8931 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    That's 432 hours in the Pacific single handed without a rudder and hitting a 1/4 mile wide target from 1,000 miles away. Quite incredible!

    • @SailorJames
      @SailorJames  2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Thanks 🙏🏻 it was a wild ride

    • @yarpenzigrin1893
      @yarpenzigrin1893 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Yup. Bullseye using a piece of rope.

  • @kevinswinden4882
    @kevinswinden4882 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you Very Informative

  • @troybehrendt4799
    @troybehrendt4799 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    champion... thanks for the video

  • @Syriondeathvow
    @Syriondeathvow 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Tanks for this video

  • @2299jsimon
    @2299jsimon 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Good info...

  • @MrSullyO
    @MrSullyO 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Sweet video. :)

  • @claytonalexander9105
    @claytonalexander9105 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    i mean what a good learning experience. i bet now that its over your kind of happy it happened.

  • @amycuaresma
    @amycuaresma ปีที่แล้ว

    That's cool bro. I think emergency rafts should come equipped with a sail and a really tall flag or kite that pops up for rescue.

  • @bharris968
    @bharris968 ปีที่แล้ว

    Brilliant idea man. I really hope I would have thought of that but I kinda doubt it.