Yay!! I needed this SO SO bad! I have been down in the valley, under very heavy oppression, lusting, angry at God, stalked by people everywhere and all kinds of crazy stuff, but I'm SO delighted to be set free after hearing this message! The Lord knew that I would hear this message and be increased in faith today and I'm SO GRATEFUL. Amen. 🙌🙌
1 Corinthians 3:6-7 "6 I plantes the seed, Apollo watered it, but God( 😊100%❤) made it grow. 7 so neither he who plants nor he who water is anything, but only God( 😊100%❤) who makes things grow."( 1 Corinthians 3:6-7❤❤ Zondervan NIV Study Bible) And Hebrews 12:2😊❤
John 14:6❤😊 " 6 Jesus(😊1st❤) answered, " I am the way ❤😊 and the truth ❤😊 and the life😊❤. No one comes to the Father( God, our Father in heaven ) except through me."( John 14:6😊❤ Zondervan NIV Study Bible.Amen.). Amen.
1 John 3:21-24 "21 Dear friends😊❤😊❤😊❤😊❤😊❤😊❤😊❤, if our hearts ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤do not condemn us, we(😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊❤❤❤❤❤❤❤) have confidence❤ before God( 😊100%❤) 22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we obey his commands❤ and do what pleases ❤him❤. 23 And this is his command: to believe( trust😊❤) in the name of his Son( Jesus 😊1st❤ to me too in Christ), Jesus Christ😊1st❤, and to love ❤one another❤ as he commanded ❤us❤❤❤❤❤❤❤. 24 Those who obey his commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit( Holy Spirit❤😊) he gave us."( 1 John 3:21-24 Zondervan NIV Study Bible)
Amen! I used to think the Arminian doctrine (that Jesus died for every human being) was the truth. The human heart is so deceptive to make us think we have a choice to choose God or not. We are dead in trespasses and sins until God quickens us (brings us back to life). To be dead spiritually means we cannot do/choose anything unless someone revives/regenerates us (God). We need to be born again and it’s done by God alone and not some act of accepting/believing on Jesus. Our living faith in Jesus Christ is the evidence that we are saved and not the means by which we become saved. We believe God because he chose us and regenerated our dead souls. If you cannot see that human beings are totally depraved and unable to come to God on their own then you won’t understand the beauty of God’s love toward us wretched sinners.
You had me at sovereign God. He is sovereign and rules over all according to His plans. God loves righteousness and justice and loves the creation He brought into being. God can do as He pleases and because you disagree with His ways doesn't mean He loves you any less. In fact, I love you because of Jesus dying on the cross for me.
Amen and amen. So glad to see such wisdom in the earth. The Lord formed the heavens and the earth for his glory. And both his glory and his wisdom know no bounds. Why should God answer any man or being according to their rules or regulations? Yet for all that, he will deign to answer these questions because he desires us, based on what we can understand to be choice, and not simply a well- hidden manipulation.
I've known ever since the Lord called me into His glorious🙏❤️🙌 PRESENCE that He chose me, and it was not ANY part of my own belief that He chose me. Thank you Jesus for being the sacrifice for ALL my sins, that I have died with you, and because you took and forgave all my sin, (yes, present and future sin I will commit), I am forgiven. HALLELUJAH! 🙌🙌❤️❤️✝️✝️
How do you answer this, with "for no reason, so its great," and the question, "why doesn't God call some people," with reasoning? But this is of no concern, it doesn't do anyone good to question inevitability, especially that of God. But people do. We all do, so good that theologians, and doctors of the word exist, to answer the pointless questions our arrogance holds us back with. I've learned that regardless of the meaninglessness of life, outside of God, the endless questions of the meaning of all the insignificant things, that can't be known, that we are here to deal with it all, despite its intangibility. It all does have meaning, but faith simply has to take the place of answers, at some point, and forevermore.
God doesn't do anything "for no reason" and God is not arbitrary at all. This is my faith, and I think it makes intuitive sense that if there is one creator God, he holds all meaning. Therefore he picks this person or that for a reason, although we don't know what the reason is, we believe he works all things for our good. It does do good to question and consider unconditional election and this video gives ten good reasons why it's good to. For one simply because it's logical for two simply because it humbles us and helps us realize we are not God and do not create ourselves. So we stop blaming people for going to hell and stop boasting in ourselves for going to heaven and instead give the glory (give the weight) to the Almighty Creator, where it belongs.
Well sure. But you're forgetting that in this side of the divide many Christians have ok this doctrine, and on the other, where people sort of drift into the worthiness of God, you have this thing called the flesh. And the flesh will inevitably, apart from the power of God, draw you into pointless things. Let's not act as though thinking about pointless things is an entirely good habit. It's not always, or even sometimes, good to do, simply because all it breeds is fantasy, not understanding. You spend more time trying to figure out how you figure things out and not enough just doing good.
No, we choose whether we want to be with God or not. It's both pre-destination and free will-allow me to explain. It's impossible for God not to know who will choose Him or not, because He knows everything. But He still gave us free will. So think of it this way: God predestined those "whom He knew from [before] the foundation of the world", and He knew who would choose Him, so He predestined those people. God gives everyone the opportunity to come to Christ and to receive salvation, but it's up to us to accept the free gift of salvation. We must recognize that we are in need of a Savior who will redeem us from our sin.
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only Son, so that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through Him." "And this is the judgement: the light has come into the world, but people loved the darkness rather than the light. For whoever walks in darkness does not come to the light lest his works should be exposed, but whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God."
@@TheLordismyGod17 You are forgetting one major point; God's choice...3 times in 1 Cor 1;26-31 Paul says that God chose the weak things and the despised and things that are not...why? So that noone may boast before Him. GOD CHOSE US! Pauls testimony in Galatians 1:15-16 "But when God, who set me apart from my mother’s womb and called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, my immediate response was not to consult any human being."
I think both sides agree on this but make it too complicated. God's omniscience allows him to know who will decide to have faith because he created time and he knows the beginning and the end. The elect are simply those who chose to put faith in Jesus Christ as their Lord and savior. Free will and God's sovereignty can coexist. To put it simply. I can buy everyone in a room pizza but not everyone has to eat it. God never wanted any to perish, just as is stated in His word. 2 Peter 3:9
Well the problem is that many people on the other side of this divide think that election is just elected to try. It becomes quite taxing, to say the least, to try to explain that many of the things in the Bible don't suddenly take on nee meaning to fit my or anyone else's narrative. Which isn't to say that I think others are stupid or something, but that's what we're up against as far as doctrinal issues.
Hi William. If by free will you mean a will in which through it's exercise we are accountable for our choices and yet subordinate to God's sovereign will, then I would agree. But we could just call that our will to avoid misunderstanding because it is most certainly not free in the most important sense, i.e. in relation to God. But if by free will you mean a will which can act in the slightest way contrary to God's sovereignty, I would disagree. The Bible is absolutely clear that God is unconstrained to follow the course of his counsel; no one could ever say to God "what have you done?" There are numerous Biblical examples where God's sovereignty impinges on that of man, and this certainly appears true in predestination/election. I am so glad, humbled, awestruck and thankful that the sovereign Lord of the universe did this to me without asking, or waiting to see what I would say. Please Lord, do whatever you want with me and help me trust you, for you are good, so very good! Do you agree William?
@timothyflaherty5150 amen and amen. If God makes decisions based on the well-being of those who choose him, and the detriment of those who deny him, how could we come to the decision that he has lied when said anyone could come.
@@xavierthomas5835I think I understand and agree with you. But it may be that you said so much in so few words that it's difficult for me to grasp. Could you flesh that out for me friend?
@timothyflaherty5150 Haha, sorry about that. I mean to say that God is able to show his divine attributes and glory, so long as he is able to do whatever he feels like. God is not subordinate to love, God IS love. So whatever God wants to do is love.
So what is the actual definition if unconditional election in Calvinist theology. Because its interpretation can be left unexplained which leads to misunderstanding. On one hand how it's exqlained in this video it sounds like a positive ( God does not determine erction based on gender, race, ethnicity etc) yet onthe other hand it could be interpreted to mean he chose people at random not based on them choosing him or even knowing him or wanting onknow him and others he just randomly chose to spend an eternity away from him again based on no foreknowledge etc. Which is it?
The Bible is clear that we would not come if God did not act on our behalf. We are alienated and hostile in mind (Col. 1:21), hostile (Romans 8:7-8), enemies of God (Rom 5:10), enemies of the cross by which we are saved (Phil. 3:18), Haters of God (Rom 1:29-31), dead in our sins, and following Satan (Eph 2:1), callous, futile in mind, darkened in our understanding (Ephesians 4:17-19), held captive by Satan to do his will (2 Tim 2:25), arrogant, proud, boastful, lovers of pleasure, corrupted in mind (1 Tim 3:2-7). If God does not call us by grace, we are not coming. We are not free moral agents. We are absolutely wrecked by sin, and only He can call the dead to life.
So now we have a God whose going to judge me on judgement day, for something that I couldn't do,, because of His choice? Something is wrong here, because God is a just God. Amen.
Unconditional Election is God choosing some for salvation and others for damnation, not based on anything they do, will do, or have done. In God's unchangeable decree, on calvinism, the unelect will never and CAN NEVER repent and believe. So the unelect were created unable to repent and believe, yet are judged and damned because they didn't repent and believe. This is not justice. We cannot attribute injustices and evil things to God by calling them good. We remove all meaning from words when we do this. On calvinism, God creates man unable to repent and believe based off of 1 man's actions(T). Then chooses to save some and damn the rest because of the condition he gave them(U). Not only does he save some, but he does it in such a way that they cannot refuse his saving(I). It also turns out that Christ didn't die so everyone could be saved, but only those that God will save irresistibly (L). Those who God saves are the Christians and will always be christians(P), which means apostacy doesnt actually exist. Call it a strawman, but thats the condensed explanation of TULIP and not a single point can be disagreed with, just articulated more thoroughly. ^that is not the gospel. The gospel is not that you might be saved. If it was, then it is only the "good news" for some. Not the world.
For I have told him that I will judge his house for ever for the iniquity which he knoweth; because his sons made themselves vile, and he restrained them not. 1 Samuel 3:13 And therefore I have sworn unto the house of Eli, that the iniquity of Eli's house shall not be purged with sacrifice nor offering for ever. 1 Samuel 3:14
If we're being honest, this isn't the only time God does these things. Everyone in Egypt, who had a firstborn, lost them. Doesn't matter hither they knew what was going on in the place or not, whether they had slaves or not, firstborn all died if they didn't have the blood on their door. The pointvis simply, if God does something, and nobody knows the reason, is it still just? Or if God creates evil, and people exercise it, is that God's fault? Is God the one who did evil, despite all the warnings and promises to help? I believe it's horribly inaccurate to simply say that because we see apostasy happen down here, it is of more substance than it is. You forget that, to God? Everything thing takes both a second, and a thousand years to happen. In a moment, a man was with God, or he said so, then he left. Saying that apostasy suddenly doesn't exist because of calvinism is a ignorant view of what's happening. Somebody who is apostate says with their lips they believe in God, but doesn't do his will. They can look however they want, doesn't change God's view of it. He sees whether it's real or fake.
@tobennaokeke3508 The Bible describes it as a false profession of faith. The example is Judas, who was long foreknown of God and in Jesus in the earth as someone who was never a true disciple, as described in all the Gospels. Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him. Matthew 10:4 And Judas Iscariot, which also betrayed him: and they went into an house. Mark 3:19 And Judas the brother of James, and Judas Iscariot, which also was the traitor. Luke 6:16 He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve. John 6:71 Never was he a true disciple, as I described, yet he was able to cast out devils and man other things by the power of Satan. I don't need the world to describe to me what God has already shown.
@@tobennaokeke3508 In fact, the definition I gave you was the exact one John gave in the Bible for apostates. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. 1 John 2:19
So then, are we who know and believe we are chosen able to choose others in Jesus' name? Often, I wonder what we're doing here other than growing and maturing while watching misery and destruction and fighting the good fight of faith, loving people and hoping to endure to the end if life is only for those who were chosen by God before the foundation of the world. Sometimes, I verge on succumbing to apathy; other times, I'm all in. What is the outcome of loving others as Christ loved us other than to win souls that have already been won? I feel totally dispensable at times. At other times, I feel completely responsible. Some days, I just enjoy life and hope for the best not caring about income and outcome. On the one hand, it's too heady for me. On the other, I like to know things. Thank you for your ministry.
Before you go any further, look at the life of Christ. Then look at your own life. Then look at the Apostles and the prophets and the ministers of the Bible and let that guide you in your thoughts. Jesus knew everything you knew, and much more. He knew who would choose him before he even spoke to him. He knew that rich young ruler was going to deny him, even as he asked him to give all he had away. But because he LOVED him, he spent what he could on him anyways. Life without love is pointless. All the wisdom and power and miracles and all the other stuff God gives is pointless of we don't have love. This from both experience and from the Bible. When I obeyed God, and when I was happy to, there was joy and peace on simply watching TV or reading. It was glorious. He will answer any prayer you ask because you ask it, not just because he knows what you need. You see where I'm coming from? God is less interested in what you know about him than whether you love him and everybody else.
@@xavierthomas5835 Thanks for your words, although not an answer to my question. I was thinking in terms of an olden-day game called Red Rover. Perhaps that didn't or doesn't make sense to you. We can ask God anything we want in Jesus' name according to God's will and he will answer. Whatsoever we ask in faith, he gives us. I don't believe we have faith unless God gives it, so a bit of a catch-22. My rambling after my question was just explaining the conflict I feel by knowing about God's election but not being able to completely wrap my head around it.
@pennymchugh3146 Oh, the answer is no. If we, who fall short sometimes as God's people, were the ones given the power to choose who goes to heaven, don't you think we would utterly fail? As far as being given faith, sure. On a grand scale of everything that is done under the sun, God gave us faith. But that's on the level of God's comprehension. As far as we sre concerned, though, we make choices. We're you convinced of all these things when you were first saved? Of course not. You were given a choice, by God, who actually made the choice before he ever gave you one. God know everything and does everything. Doesn't mean you don't make choices or seek for faith. Otherwise you're disobeying Jesus.
@@xavierthomas5835 I guess the choice doctrine is another ball of wax. I know God desires all men to be saved, and so does loving others as Christ loved us have any impact on another's faith to believe is likely what I was trying to get at. Sometimes I don't know what my mind is saying either as it's rather pictorial. Therefore, I don't communicate very well at times. I know God chose us to believe in him and gave us the faith to do it. I thoroughly agree with that. It was not my choice, it was my awakening by God's grace through his gift of faith. But if it hadn't been for people loving me enough to call me out and over to their side, the side of Christ, I may have remained unresponsive to God's choice. It seems to me they agreed with God that I would be saved. God makes us to will and to do what pleases him. I guess it comes down to agreeing with God's choice for us to take his way of love and call whosoever to the table. If we love people we'll call all people to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and let God sort them out. I am of the mind that loving people is loving God. John said if we say we love God but hate our brothers we are liars. And, are we not Christ's representatives? I'm gonna go with it's God's will that all men would be saved and choose away in his stead. If they won't respond, so be it. They may respond to someone else. Calling whomever I will to repent and believe may be the only choice I have when it comes to spiritual things.
@pennymchugh3146 Absolutely. My concern was that you seemed rather doubtful on your position or downcast. I simply wanted to help you remember that if we only focus on the most complicated parts of our doctrine, we might cause our own heads to spin trying to figure it all out and apply it. We depend on God in everything.
Ask yourself if you’re saved. Test yourself according to scripture to see if you’re in the faith. If you fall short(of being in the faith), you’d do well to beg God for mercy.
WE NEED TO MEET, face to face. I will be by myself. You can bring however many people as you need to feel safe (although I walk with a cane). The church, your house, my house, or Maria’s Cafe (in walking distance from your house). I want to convince you I have dealt in none of the falsehoods you have accused us of. That we are neither naive or presumptuous. That is all.
I understand election in the sense that all who have faith are elected by grace. Faith is a choice. Romans says all have enough evidence for Gods existence. And yes we sin but humans can do good acts as well. We are not locked in evil unconditionally like a demon. We still have good in us. Some more some less. Faith is not salvation. Everyone who has heard the Gospel can place faith in it if they want to. But its still not your faith that saves. Its Gods grace. You are saved by Grace through Faith. If your starving of thirst your body needs water. Faith is the pipe through which the water flows. You have to supply tbe pipe. God supplies the water or the grace. Election is a lil more nuisanced than we know. In the bible some election also talks about Israel and angels as well. Election is Gods choice but to be elected it takes your choice of opening that pipe of faith that allows Gods grace to flow. Hope that makes sense
Interesting. But what is your understanding of the reason that some place faith in the Gospel, and some don't (to use your words). Is it intelligence, morals...what? Why do some believe and some don't?
@timothyflaherty5150 That's interesting. Now your getting down to free will. Humans are made in the image of God. God himself I believe has free will. Ephesians 4 18 basically says that humans don't believe out of hardness not ignorance. Atheists say they can't believe because there is no evidence. They are lying to everyone including themselves. Humans get really good at lying even to ourselves. But I think humans are a blank slate kind of. You can steer your ship toward good or evil. But i guess free will maybe in the end just comes down to your choice. God chooses . Humans choose. God is so complex and universe is so complex but maybe somethings are also just very simple. Choose or not choose. God bless
1 John 2:7-11 "7 Dear friends(😊😊😊😊😊😊😊❤❤❤❤❤❤❤), I am not writing❤ you a new command but an old one, which you have had since the beginning. This old command is the message you have heard. 8 Yet I am writing you a new command; its truth is seen in him and you, because the darkness is passing and the true light is already shinning. 9 Anyone who claims to be in the light( Jesus is the Light( John 8:12)) but hates( no good) his brother is still in the darkness. 10 Whoever😊❤ loves❤ his brother 😊❤ lives😊❤ in the light❤😊, and there is nothing in him stumble. But whoever hates( "hates "is no good) his brother is in the darkness; he does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded him."( 1 John 2:7-11 Zondervan NIV Study Bible. All parenthesis parts and love❤ and joy 😊 also in and for Christ Jesus😊❤1 st❤ too in Christ.
1 John 2:12-14 " 12 I write to you, dear children, because your sins have been forgiven on account of his name. 13 I write to you, fathers because you have known him who is from the begining. I write to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I write to you, dear children, because you have known the Father. 14 I write to you, fathers, because you known him who is from the beginning."( Do you remember John 1:1-2 too? In Christ) "I write to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God lives❤ in you, and you( 😊😊😊😊😊😊😊❤❤❤❤❤❤❤) have overcome😊❤ the evil one."( 1 John 2:12-14 Zondervan NIV Study Bible and all parenthesis parts and symbols also for and in Christ Jesus😊1st❤ too in Christ. PtL.
1 Corinthians 3:6-7 "6 I plantes the seed, Apollo watered it, but God( 😊100%❤) made it grow. 7 so neither he who plants nor he who water is anything, but only God( 😊100%❤) who makes things grow."( 1 Corinthians 3:6-7❤❤ Zondervan NIV Study Bible) And Hebrews 12:2😊❤
I genuinely believe that God hates me, that he's always had hated me, and that he will hate me forever. There's nothing I can do about it. I try to believe, I try to have faith but there's nothing to do. I think I did everything I could do in my power, but I am just too evil to be able to have saving faith. I don't want to be like that, but I can't help it. I never really wanted to be opposed to God, to be opposed to the Gospel, but I sinned willfully too much, I post poned my repentance too much, I took God's grace for granted and now it's too late and He is showing me my mistake, he's giving me a lesson and it will last forever... There's no way he wants to help me. I used to think that He loves me and that he would be already here for me. That was a mistake. God is a father and God is love only for his children, the ones he chooses. For the rest, he is judge, and he will poor his wrath on me forever. I have absolutely no conviction that he loves me, that he wants to save me and that he loves me. The only conviction I have is what I just described and the fact that I commited the unpardonnable sin by chosing my sins over Him previously in my life. I realised my mistake, I regret it deeply, I now see how bad I am, how bad I've always been, I cried out to God so many times, asked him for forgiveness so many times, I tried to change, I tried to believe. But God just let me over to my sinful state and I am His enemy because of my heart, weither I want it or not.
I don't know if I am able to give you any hope by my words, but I pray I can. The fact that you care at all right now is a sign of promise. So is the fact that you are conscious of your sin. God doesn't hate you. He may be angry with you, and if your life ends in sin he will surely judge you, but never forget he knows you personally from childhood, better than you know yourself. You may be evil, or not, I don't know you, but you can't be "too evil to have saving faith", because the whole point of saving faith is making you become born again. When you are born again, it's like the evil person you were is dead, and there's is a new person who isn't guilty of those things that the evil person did. And because that new person believes and loves Jesus, God basically adopts that new you, and you will live forever with him. Don't feel that there is no escape from the evil self. And definitely don't feel that your knowledge of election is any barrier to your being saved. That's like the fictional movie character worrying about the real-life crew making the movie. Within the context of the universe, there is absolutely nothing blocking from salvation from happening to you. You seem to already believe in the reality of God. That's terrific! Believe also in the reality of his salvation. Before you worry about trying to change yourself, meditate day and night about this: what God loves is what is right, and what God hates is what is wrong. I think understanding that is just about the first step of what repentance means. Most importantly, understand the work of Jesus. Who he is, what he did, and why he did it. In your case, especially why he did it. It was because he loves you.
Hey! I have a lot of empathy for your comment because so often I also struggle with believing this way. Ultimately, it is out of unbelief and pride, thinking God’s Word, which includes His offers of salvation and love, don’t apply to you. You also have unbelief about who God says He is, which is merciful and compassionate, lowly in heart, gentle. Yes, God is just and holy. But He is also loving and kind. We do not deserve His love, but He offers it! Don’t read the Bible with unbelief. Read it and believe it when He says that He will not turn away any who believe in Him. When the God through the Bible commands you to come unto Him, do it! Have faith that He is merciful. Have faith that He is strong enough to save you. I know it is hard, but it doesn’t depend on the strength of your faith, but the object of your faith - Jesus Christ. The good shepherd. GOOD shepherd. He isn’t malicious or conniving. He isn’t a harsh task master. He isn’t unkind so as to have you reading the Word just to treat you like a dog, sticking your nose in your poop to show you you’re a bad boy. Do NOT believe your unbelieving heart OR Satan, who is out to deceive you and turn you against God. Turn your eyes upon Jesus. Look full in His wonderful face. Look upon the bronze serpent (Jesus) and be healed, like the Israelites did in the desert when they’d sinned and for judgment were bitten by poisonous snakes. All the Israelites had to do was believe God’s Word when He said they would be healed by looking upon the serpent staff. Look upon Jesus. Tell Him your feelings, but don’t believe your feelings. Don’t put more faith in yourself and your feelings than you do God. He IS good. Your feelings and Satan are lying. I will pray for you.
I tried to believe... I really did. With all the strenght that I have. But I can't. If I'm not saved after all the efforts I made, I won't ever be. There are times I thought I finally got the saving faith, but it never lasts more than one day. Why ? Because I always end up finding in my heart a part of me that doesn't really want to live for God and that still wants to live for itself. I don't want to feel that but it's totally out of my control. You have no idea how frustrating it is because I know Jesus is the way, I know I need Him, I know everything good comes from Him, etc. I believe everything the bible says. Besides, I don't agree when people tell me to not rely on my feelings because that's not true. When you have saving faith, you are supposed to have the fruit of the Holy Spirit which are peace, love, kindness, etc. You are supposed to be grateful to your Savior, to be longing to obey Him and all, to have a genuine hate for sins. I have none of that, even when I put in my mind that God has forgiven me. That doesn't lead me to have none of what I just described, that doesn't lead me to have a new heart, to have a worshipping heart. That sucks. And now, I don't have faith it will change one day. I don't know how many times I asked God to give me a new heart, to give me the freedom to worship Him, to make me genuinely hate my sins, to help me truly beliving in Him, etc. That sucks because I know I am such a bad person deserving hell. I know my sins are so ugly, I regret them. But it's the only conviction that I have. That I am a sinner, that I am bad, that the way I've lived my life was very bad and that I deserve hell so badly. But in spite of all that, that doesn't lead me to change and to have new holy desires. Because I can't believe. I can't rest in Christ and receive His grace with all my heart no matter how hard I try. I really want to. But I can't. It's so frustrating. I'm not blaming God because I got what I previously chose. I knew I wasn't on the right track and that I had to repent. But I loved my sins too much and the more I resisted, the more I hardened my heart. Now I regret, but that's too late. Maybe God loves me, but I have no clue, I have absolutely zero conviction about that. I don't feel anything anymore. The only time I felt something is when I felt his wrath. I don't know why I wrote that. I shouldn't have because after all the time I tried to have the saving faith I haven't managed and deep down I know I have no hope. I guess I'm looking for someone who went through what I'm going through, or for some encouragements, but I should not because I know I'm a lost cause. So I'm actually being selfish by wanting encouragements because I know I'm wasting people's time because I know there's no hope and that nobody can help me.
I had similar thoughts at one point and for a long time the only scriptures that stuck out to me were the ones about condemnation and wrath and judgement and I believe the Lord spoke to me one night as I was writing in my journal the I I believe the Lord said that I was hoping in his wrath and judgement I think that's what you are doing as well your hope is in His wrath and judgement I encourage you to try to start hoping in His goodness and mercy as I'm now also starting to do Wow you won't believe what just happened as I decided to get my Bible to encourage you with scripture I believe the Lord led me straight to the verse in Psalms this is amazing!!! I'm sure you know how big the bible is how many pages and for me to open it up and fip right to the verse I wanted to share with you is absolutely amazing❤️❤️❤️ Jesus loves us you know He died for you too Okay here is the verse Psalm 86:5 For you Lord art good and ready to forgive; and plenteous in mercy unto all them that call upon thee Psalm 86:15 But thou O Lord art a God full of compassion, and gracious, long-suffering and plenteous in mercy and truth I encourage you to take you time meditating on those verse so that they get in your spirit so that you won't be weighed down with discouragement and hopelessness. I encourage you to do what the Lord helped me to do that is get rooted and settled in His love for you as a child Ask yourself these questions Do you believe the bible is the word of God Do you believe that Jesus was born of Mary the virgin came and died and the Father rose Him on the 3rd day? He died for our sins and the sins of the whole world and He rose for our justification Have you ever repented of your sins and asked Jesus to be your Lord and savior and to give you His holy Spirit Something we all have to do daily is choose to turn away from the things that we want to do that displease the Lord and deny ourself and choose instead to do what the the Lord desires for us to do... Just take it day to day little by little and don't give up and be encouraged and if you mess up confess up to the Lord and even if you have to ask Him to help you stop doing those things you know are wrong . I believe He doesn't look at a struggle or weakness the same as He does willful intentional unapologetic sin But regardless a child is always their fathers child no matter what they do or don't do. If you have kids you can see the correlation No matter what a child does or doesn't do pleases or displease their Father regardless of their behavior or attitude or lifestyle they will always be a child. But we strive to be obedient children not disobedient children So strive you can do all things through Christ who strengthens you. Everything the Lord has asked us to do He has given His grace for us to do it. Sometimes it's the devil telling us lies in the mind that we can't or we messed up too much or it's too hard to live for the Lord but if it's was impossible the Lord wouldn't even expect us to. You have to keep trying and don't let your sins stop you. Spend some time praying to the Lord Maybe you don't know were to start a good place is to give thanks for everything you know is because of Him such as life heath sight hearing strength in your body food on your table clothes on your back a place to stay etc. You may have to ask Him to heal you from rejection and abandonment issues look at your past and childhood and see if you can notice any signs of past rejection teasing abandonment and ask the Lord to heal you of all sorts of abuse and trauma Sometimes it's because of the unhealed past that effects our present Also you have to forgive anyone that hurt you and also choose to be humble that's what I'm doing choosing humility over pride When you open the word of God KJV... Choose to believe EVERYTHING you read even of it goes against your natural mind and thoughts because sometimes it will because you have to get your mind renewed so do I You are not alone and there are others that can relate to what you have felt. I don't believe the Lord is done with you. Perhaps He's just getting started❤️❤️❤️ Go forth in Jesus name Day to day Little by little Read and believe If God says it( and He does) Then that settles it We can trust the Word of God Hebrews says that God can not lie
Every parent can understand electing and damning their kids, right? Of my 4, it is easy to select 2 for election to show my grace and select two for damnation to show my justice
@@rocketsurgeon1746 thanks for replying. I'm glad I was right then. To be honest this doctrine has been causing me immense trouble these past few months. I got introduced to it last year although I knew it existed as a denomination but I didn't look into it fully. Since then it's confused me and caused me to loose faith in what I've believed for the past 15 years as a Christian. I think I still agree with about 4 points of the TULIP but this particular one has me confused.
@@mlady8137 great to hear. I don't find tulip to be Biblical after years of listening to sproul, jmac and piper. They sold it, but i wasn't buying after reading the Bible for myself without being told what a verse means. Just read your Bible, preach the Gospel and use your brain :) God bless you!
I bet even God chosen people who was so evil or doing evil that no one on earth would think or even the devil would think is save-able. Remember that God can take something bad and make it good and for his glory. He can save anyone he chooses. Like to really piss off the devil or confuse him and win the game. Is the save someone the devil thinks is going to hell .to ruin the devil's plans .to take away the devil plans and victories.
Why can't anybody think they're unsavable? God may not have chosen them and they won't be able to generate faith even if they want, just because they were not chosen :-(
Why can't everybody think they're chosen? God gave his only Son to die for them, gave them a Bible to read, gave them a desire to seek him and his word and his ways, offers to do everything they couldn't for them, and many other things I don’t even have time or space to write? Or even enough knowledge? Why is it people choose to be pessimist when it comes to the utter Supremacy of God, instead of the little supremacy of their free will? Why not say, "I've made wrong choices so I'll do it again"? Or "I'm not different from anybody else so why are my ideas any better than somebody else's?" Because it's easy to say hard to do, that's why. It's also ridiculous compared to the rewards. You could sit stagnant and whine about not knowing things you can't know, like the millions and millions of other things everyone will never know, or you cam go to the source and figure it out. Careful, you might just be chosen.
@@xavierthomas5835 Evidently, in Calvinistic theology, some are arbitrarily not chosen, and are not given a chance to even want to pursue these things so they just don't...
@@izaswierczynska6618Why do you say arbitrary when we are specifically told God elects according to his purpose? Unconditional election means not based on what we've done, it does not mean arbitrary.
@@timothyflaherty5150 that's what I believe, too ;) Calvinistic interpretation seems to me arbitrary but I don't presume to have any answer to it. There's some great mystery in the tension between the work of grace in salvation and human response...
@@izaswierczynska6618 Hello iza. Indeed, but then life itself is a mystery! But when God wants us to know why we believe, He says things like this in Acts 13:48--- "...and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed." Those who don't believe also don't want to. So we thank God for His gift of our faith! So it is a mystery because God can be mysterious! How awesome! May God bless you iza! The Lord is good!
Protestantism leads to legalism or atheism. Leave now and find Orthodoxy. God does not choose who will be saved, but rather wishes that all would be saved and let’s us choose whether to accept his free gift of grace. We are granted salvation, which we do not deserve, out of His mercy, through our faith in Jesus which is made evident by our good works. It is a simple and beautiful doctrine. Flee from these Protestant heresies.
Hello dp. You are Roman Catholic? I just posed this question to someone else, but with your background I would be interested in your response. Biblically, which of these two is more glorious: 1) That God save everybody He made (and God made everybody). or... 2) That the gloriousness of God's grace as well as all his glorious attributes be displayed.
@@suryaraj7645 The Bible says we deserve condemnation not salvation. The Bible also says salvation is a gift, which by definition you neither earn nor deserve.
"Unconditional Election" proves the sovereign Calvinist potter God is an impersonal, whimsical, discriminatory, unjust, merciless, God of evil randomness who denies the non-elect, non-predestined goat people of *EVER* having a chance, or a hope, or a prayer, of *EVER* receiving his so-called "Grace"!
By your measure, doesn't the God of conditional election not even try to save those who wouldn't already choose Him? Kind of like a lifeguard who watches someone drown but is powerless to act until he is asked? Or a policeman who watches someone commit suicide because it is the person's choice? These systems are two sides of the same coin. They've been argued for endlessly. Both have almost the same points for/against one another. Thankfully, they are both seeking to describe the indescribable greatness of God's goodness. Eventually, our words and concepts fail us and we are reminded to have the simple faith of a child. Salvation is from God and not of ourselves. Praise be to Jesus for salvation.
But JohnQ, if God doesn't call, if God doesn't elect, NONE of us would be saved by Jesus dying on the cross. There certainly wasn't anything in me saying I needed God. Salvation is His plan and He is the sovereign God.
@@27stewarBut in your view, the lifeguard also just stands by and watches people drown, correct? If the one drowning is not unconditionally chosen by the lifeguard to be saved, they will stand callously idle as they drown. On the other view, the lifeguard is not watching and waiting idly, they are jumping into the water and actively trying to pull the drowning person to safety, while the one drowning is kicking and screaming and pushing their savior away. God’s earnest desire is to save everyone, and yet not all are saved, therefore something must stand in the way of His saving everyone. That something is the absolute refusal of many to be saved.
The really important verse that gets left out is Rom 8:29 which says whom he FOREKNEW . God knows us before our conception even do He knows who will accept or reject his salvation.
Yay!! I needed this SO SO bad! I have been down in the valley, under very heavy oppression, lusting, angry at God, stalked by people everywhere and all kinds of crazy stuff, but I'm SO delighted to be set free after hearing this message! The Lord knew that I would hear this message and be increased in faith today and I'm SO GRATEFUL. Amen. 🙌🙌
It's beautiful, isn't it? You can be a total degenerate and still get saved.
Praise to the Lord( Jesus) and thank you for pastor John and Tony for sharing. Ephesians 2:8-10.😊❤
1 Corinthians 3:6-7
"6 I plantes the seed,
Apollo watered it,
but God( 😊100%❤) made it grow.
7 so neither he who plants nor he who water is anything, but only God( 😊100%❤) who makes things grow."( 1 Corinthians 3:6-7❤❤ Zondervan NIV Study Bible)
And Hebrews 12:2😊❤
John 14:6❤😊
" 6 Jesus(😊1st❤) answered,
" I am
the way ❤😊
and
the truth ❤😊
and
the life😊❤.
No one
comes
to the Father( God, our Father in heaven )
except
through me."( John 14:6😊❤ Zondervan NIV Study Bible.Amen.). Amen.
1 John 3:21-24
"21 Dear friends😊❤😊❤😊❤😊❤😊❤😊❤😊❤, if our hearts ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤do not condemn us, we(😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊❤❤❤❤❤❤❤) have confidence❤ before God( 😊100%❤)
22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we obey his commands❤ and do what pleases ❤him❤.
23 And this is his command: to believe( trust😊❤) in the name of his Son( Jesus 😊1st❤ to me too in Christ), Jesus Christ😊1st❤, and to love ❤one another❤ as he commanded ❤us❤❤❤❤❤❤❤.
24 Those who obey his commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit( Holy Spirit❤😊) he gave us."( 1 John 3:21-24 Zondervan NIV Study Bible)
Amen! I used to think the Arminian doctrine (that Jesus died for every human being) was the truth. The human heart is so deceptive to make us think we have a choice to choose God or not. We are dead in trespasses and sins until God quickens us (brings us back to life). To be dead spiritually means we cannot do/choose anything unless someone revives/regenerates us (God). We need to be born again and it’s done by God alone and not some act of accepting/believing on Jesus. Our living faith in Jesus Christ is the evidence that we are saved and not the means by which we become saved. We believe God because he chose us and regenerated our dead souls. If you cannot see that human beings are totally depraved and unable to come to God on their own then you won’t understand the beauty of God’s love toward us wretched sinners.
Jesus did die for ALL (pas). Don't fall for calv doctrine. It makes God disgusting
“Your thoughts of God are too human”, said Erasmus. This is the deep mystery and glory of God.
You had me at sovereign God. He is sovereign and rules over all according to His plans. God loves righteousness and justice and loves the creation He brought into being. God can do as He pleases and because you disagree with His ways doesn't mean He loves you any less. In fact, I love you because of Jesus dying on the cross for me.
Amen and amen. So glad to see such wisdom in the earth. The Lord formed the heavens and the earth for his glory. And both his glory and his wisdom know no bounds. Why should God answer any man or being according to their rules or regulations? Yet for all that, he will deign to answer these questions because he desires us, based on what we can understand to be choice, and not simply a well- hidden manipulation.
Problem is, the calv god is not sovereign. A sovereign God can handle the free will of man that He setup.
Even free will , faith, beliefs are a gift from God.
A wicked and wretched creature like myself really needed to hear this today 🥺
I've known ever since the Lord called me into His glorious🙏❤️🙌 PRESENCE that He chose me, and it was not ANY part of my own belief that He chose me. Thank you Jesus for being the sacrifice for ALL my sins, that I have died with you, and because you took and forgave all my sin, (yes, present and future sin I will commit), I am forgiven. HALLELUJAH! 🙌🙌❤️❤️✝️✝️
❤❤❤❤ Amen!!!!
Thank You, Pastor John!
Hallelujah
How do you answer this, with "for no reason, so its great," and the question, "why doesn't God call some people," with reasoning? But this is of no concern, it doesn't do anyone good to question inevitability, especially that of God. But people do. We all do, so good that theologians, and doctors of the word exist, to answer the pointless questions our arrogance holds us back with. I've learned that regardless of the meaninglessness of life, outside of God, the endless questions of the meaning of all the insignificant things, that can't be known, that we are here to deal with it all, despite its intangibility. It all does have meaning, but faith simply has to take the place of answers, at some point, and forevermore.
God doesn't do anything "for no reason" and God is not arbitrary at all. This is my faith, and I think it makes intuitive sense that if there is one creator God, he holds all meaning. Therefore he picks this person or that for a reason, although we don't know what the reason is, we believe he works all things for our good.
It does do good to question and consider unconditional election and this video gives ten good reasons why it's good to. For one simply because it's logical for two simply because it humbles us and helps us realize we are not God and do not create ourselves. So we stop blaming people for going to hell and stop boasting in ourselves for going to heaven and instead give the glory (give the weight) to the Almighty Creator, where it belongs.
Well sure. But you're forgetting that in this side of the divide many Christians have ok this doctrine, and on the other, where people sort of drift into the worthiness of God, you have this thing called the flesh. And the flesh will inevitably, apart from the power of God, draw you into pointless things. Let's not act as though thinking about pointless things is an entirely good habit. It's not always, or even sometimes, good to do, simply because all it breeds is fantasy, not understanding. You spend more time trying to figure out how you figure things out and not enough just doing good.
No, we choose whether we want to be with God or not. It's both pre-destination and free will-allow me to explain.
It's impossible for God not to know who will choose Him or not, because He knows everything.
But He still gave us free will.
So think of it this way: God predestined those "whom He knew from [before] the foundation of the world", and He knew who would choose Him, so He predestined those people.
God gives everyone the opportunity to come to Christ and to receive salvation, but it's up to us to accept the free gift of salvation. We must recognize that we are in need of a Savior who will redeem us from our sin.
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only Son, so that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through Him."
"And this is the judgement: the light has come into the world, but people loved the darkness rather than the light. For whoever walks in darkness does not come to the light lest his works should be exposed, but whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God."
@@TheLordismyGod17 You are forgetting one major point; God's choice...3 times in 1 Cor 1;26-31 Paul says that God chose the weak things and the despised and things that are not...why? So that noone may boast before Him. GOD CHOSE US! Pauls testimony in Galatians 1:15-16 "But when God, who set me apart from my mother’s womb and called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, my immediate response was not to consult any human being."
Amen
I think both sides agree on this but make it too complicated. God's omniscience allows him to know who will decide to have faith because he created time and he knows the beginning and the end. The elect are simply those who chose to put faith in Jesus Christ as their Lord and savior. Free will and God's sovereignty can coexist. To put it simply. I can buy everyone in a room pizza but not everyone has to eat it. God never wanted any to perish, just as is stated in His word. 2 Peter 3:9
Well the problem is that many people on the other side of this divide think that election is just elected to try. It becomes quite taxing, to say the least, to try to explain that many of the things in the Bible don't suddenly take on nee meaning to fit my or anyone else's narrative. Which isn't to say that I think others are stupid or something, but that's what we're up against as far as doctrinal issues.
Hi William. If by free will you mean a will in which through it's exercise we are accountable for our choices and yet subordinate to God's sovereign will, then I would agree. But we could just call that our will to avoid misunderstanding because it is most certainly not free in the most important sense, i.e. in relation to God.
But if by free will you mean a will which can act in the slightest way contrary to God's sovereignty, I would disagree. The Bible is absolutely clear that God is unconstrained to follow the course of his counsel; no one could ever say to God "what have you done?"
There are numerous Biblical examples where God's sovereignty impinges on that of man, and this certainly appears true in predestination/election.
I am so glad, humbled, awestruck and thankful that the sovereign Lord of the universe did this to me without asking, or waiting to see what I would say.
Please Lord, do whatever you want with me and help me trust you, for you are good, so very good!
Do you agree William?
@timothyflaherty5150 amen and amen. If God makes decisions based on the well-being of those who choose him, and the detriment of those who deny him, how could we come to the decision that he has lied when said anyone could come.
@@xavierthomas5835I think I understand and agree with you. But it may be that you said so much in so few words that it's difficult for me to grasp. Could you flesh that out for me friend?
@timothyflaherty5150 Haha, sorry about that. I mean to say that God is able to show his divine attributes and glory, so long as he is able to do whatever he feels like. God is not subordinate to love, God IS love. So whatever God wants to do is love.
Wow!! ❤
So what is the actual definition if unconditional election in Calvinist theology. Because its interpretation can be left unexplained which leads to misunderstanding. On one hand how it's exqlained in this video it sounds like a positive ( God does not determine erction based on gender, race, ethnicity etc) yet onthe other hand it could be interpreted to mean he chose people at random not based on them choosing him or even knowing him or wanting onknow him and others he just randomly chose to spend an eternity away from him again based on no foreknowledge etc. Which is it?
The Bible is clear that we would not come if God did not act on our behalf. We are alienated and hostile in mind (Col. 1:21), hostile (Romans 8:7-8), enemies of God (Rom 5:10), enemies of the cross by which we are saved (Phil. 3:18), Haters of God (Rom 1:29-31), dead in our sins, and following Satan (Eph 2:1), callous, futile in mind, darkened in our understanding (Ephesians 4:17-19), held captive by Satan to do his will (2 Tim 2:25), arrogant, proud, boastful, lovers of pleasure, corrupted in mind (1 Tim 3:2-7).
If God does not call us by grace, we are not coming. We are not free moral agents. We are absolutely wrecked by sin, and only He can call the dead to life.
Amen. Absolutely Jonathon, absolutely!!
Very well and Biblically said!
All praises to the glory if his grace!!!
You are approaching the end of a long life having perfected the art of insanity.
So now we have a God whose going to judge me on judgement day, for something that I couldn't do,, because of His choice? Something is wrong here, because God is a just God. Amen.
God gave everyone a measure of faith, it is our choice to accept His grace. That's why there's a judgement day pending. God bless.
Unconditional Election is God choosing some for salvation and others for damnation, not based on anything they do, will do, or have done. In God's unchangeable decree, on calvinism, the unelect will never and CAN NEVER repent and believe. So the unelect were created unable to repent and believe, yet are judged and damned because they didn't repent and believe. This is not justice. We cannot attribute injustices and evil things to God by calling them good. We remove all meaning from words when we do this.
On calvinism,
God creates man unable to repent and believe based off of 1 man's actions(T). Then chooses to save some and damn the rest because of the condition he gave them(U). Not only does he save some, but he does it in such a way that they cannot refuse his saving(I). It also turns out that Christ didn't die so everyone could be saved, but only those that God will save irresistibly (L). Those who God saves are the Christians and will always be christians(P), which means apostacy doesnt actually exist.
Call it a strawman, but thats the condensed explanation of TULIP and not a single point can be disagreed with, just articulated more thoroughly.
^that is not the gospel. The gospel is not that you might be saved. If it was, then it is only the "good news" for some. Not the world.
For I have told him that I will judge his house for ever for the iniquity which he knoweth; because his sons made themselves vile, and he restrained them not. 1 Samuel 3:13
And therefore I have sworn unto the house of Eli, that the iniquity of Eli's house shall not be purged with sacrifice nor offering for ever. 1 Samuel 3:14
If we're being honest, this isn't the only time God does these things. Everyone in Egypt, who had a firstborn, lost them. Doesn't matter hither they knew what was going on in the place or not, whether they had slaves or not, firstborn all died if they didn't have the blood on their door. The pointvis simply, if God does something, and nobody knows the reason, is it still just? Or if God creates evil, and people exercise it, is that God's fault? Is God the one who did evil, despite all the warnings and promises to help? I believe it's horribly inaccurate to simply say that because we see apostasy happen down here, it is of more substance than it is. You forget that, to God? Everything thing takes both a second, and a thousand years to happen. In a moment, a man was with God, or he said so, then he left. Saying that apostasy suddenly doesn't exist because of calvinism is a ignorant view of what's happening. Somebody who is apostate says with their lips they believe in God, but doesn't do his will. They can look however they want, doesn't change God's view of it. He sees whether it's real or fake.
@@xavierthomas5835 pls check the meaning of apostasy again
@tobennaokeke3508 The Bible describes it as a false profession of faith. The example is Judas, who was long foreknown of God and in Jesus in the earth as someone who was never a true disciple, as described in all the Gospels.
Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him. Matthew 10:4
And Judas Iscariot, which also betrayed him: and they went into an house. Mark 3:19
And Judas the brother of James, and Judas Iscariot, which also was the traitor. Luke 6:16
He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve. John 6:71
Never was he a true disciple, as I described, yet he was able to cast out devils and man other things by the power of Satan. I don't need the world to describe to me what God has already shown.
@@tobennaokeke3508 In fact, the definition I gave you was the exact one John gave in the Bible for apostates.
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. 1 John 2:19
help us to know and understand your word Lord may we not throw out vital parts of it because we don't understand
So then, are we who know and believe we are chosen able to choose others in Jesus' name? Often, I wonder what we're doing here other than growing and maturing while watching misery and destruction and fighting the good fight of faith, loving people and hoping to endure to the end if life is only for those who were chosen by God before the foundation of the world. Sometimes, I verge on succumbing to apathy; other times, I'm all in. What is the outcome of loving others as Christ loved us other than to win souls that have already been won? I feel totally dispensable at times. At other times, I feel completely responsible. Some days, I just enjoy life and hope for the best not caring about income and outcome. On the one hand, it's too heady for me. On the other, I like to know things. Thank you for your ministry.
Before you go any further, look at the life of Christ. Then look at your own life. Then look at the Apostles and the prophets and the ministers of the Bible and let that guide you in your thoughts. Jesus knew everything you knew, and much more. He knew who would choose him before he even spoke to him. He knew that rich young ruler was going to deny him, even as he asked him to give all he had away. But because he LOVED him, he spent what he could on him anyways. Life without love is pointless. All the wisdom and power and miracles and all the other stuff God gives is pointless of we don't have love. This from both experience and from the Bible. When I obeyed God, and when I was happy to, there was joy and peace on simply watching TV or reading. It was glorious. He will answer any prayer you ask because you ask it, not just because he knows what you need. You see where I'm coming from? God is less interested in what you know about him than whether you love him and everybody else.
@@xavierthomas5835 Thanks for your words, although not an answer to my question. I was thinking in terms of an olden-day game called Red Rover. Perhaps that didn't or doesn't make sense to you. We can ask God anything we want in Jesus' name according to God's will and he will answer. Whatsoever we ask in faith, he gives us. I don't believe we have faith unless God gives it, so a bit of a catch-22. My rambling after my question was just explaining the conflict I feel by knowing about God's election but not being able to completely wrap my head around it.
@pennymchugh3146 Oh, the answer is no. If we, who fall short sometimes as God's people, were the ones given the power to choose who goes to heaven, don't you think we would utterly fail?
As far as being given faith, sure. On a grand scale of everything that is done under the sun, God gave us faith. But that's on the level of God's comprehension. As far as we sre concerned, though, we make choices. We're you convinced of all these things when you were first saved? Of course not. You were given a choice, by God, who actually made the choice before he ever gave you one. God know everything and does everything. Doesn't mean you don't make choices or seek for faith. Otherwise you're disobeying Jesus.
@@xavierthomas5835 I guess the choice doctrine is another ball of wax. I know God desires all men to be saved, and so does loving others as Christ loved us have any impact on another's faith to believe is likely what I was trying to get at. Sometimes I don't know what my mind is saying either as it's rather pictorial. Therefore, I don't communicate very well at times. I know God chose us to believe in him and gave us the faith to do it. I thoroughly agree with that. It was not my choice, it was my awakening by God's grace through his gift of faith. But if it hadn't been for people loving me enough to call me out and over to their side, the side of Christ, I may have remained unresponsive to God's choice. It seems to me they agreed with God that I would be saved. God makes us to will and to do what pleases him. I guess it comes down to agreeing with God's choice for us to take his way of love and call whosoever to the table. If we love people we'll call all people to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and let God sort them out. I am of the mind that loving people is loving God. John said if we say we love God but hate our brothers we are liars. And, are we not Christ's representatives? I'm gonna go with it's God's will that all men would be saved and choose away in his stead. If they won't respond, so be it. They may respond to someone else. Calling whomever I will to repent and believe may be the only choice I have when it comes to spiritual things.
@pennymchugh3146 Absolutely. My concern was that you seemed rather doubtful on your position or downcast. I simply wanted to help you remember that if we only focus on the most complicated parts of our doctrine, we might cause our own heads to spin trying to figure it all out and apply it. We depend on God in everything.
How does one know if they are elect?
Ask yourself if you’re saved. Test yourself according to scripture to see if you’re in the faith. If you fall short(of being in the faith), you’d do well to beg God for mercy.
WE NEED TO MEET, face to face. I will be by myself. You can bring however many people as you need to feel safe (although I walk with a cane). The church, your house, my house, or Maria’s Cafe (in walking distance from your house). I want to convince you I have dealt in none of the falsehoods you have accused us of. That we are neither naive or presumptuous. That is all.
I understand election in the sense that all who have faith are elected by grace. Faith is a choice. Romans says all have enough evidence for Gods existence. And yes we sin but humans can do good acts as well. We are not locked in evil unconditionally like a demon. We still have good in us. Some more some less. Faith is not salvation. Everyone who has heard the Gospel can place faith in it if they want to. But its still not your faith that saves. Its Gods grace. You are saved by Grace through Faith. If your starving of thirst your body needs water. Faith is the pipe through which the water flows. You have to supply tbe pipe. God supplies the water or the grace. Election is a lil more nuisanced than we know. In the bible some election also talks about Israel and angels as well. Election is Gods choice but to be elected it takes your choice of opening that pipe of faith that allows Gods grace to flow. Hope that makes sense
Interesting. But what is your understanding of the reason that some place faith in the Gospel, and some don't (to use your words). Is it intelligence, morals...what? Why do some believe and some don't?
@timothyflaherty5150 That's interesting. Now your getting down to free will. Humans are made in the image of God. God himself I believe has free will. Ephesians 4 18 basically says that humans don't believe out of hardness not ignorance. Atheists say they can't believe because there is no evidence. They are lying to everyone including themselves. Humans get really good at lying even to ourselves. But I think humans are a blank slate kind of. You can steer your ship toward good or evil. But i guess free will maybe in the end just comes down to your choice. God chooses . Humans choose. God is so complex and universe is so complex but maybe somethings are also just very simple. Choose or not choose. God bless
1 John 2:7-11
"7 Dear friends(😊😊😊😊😊😊😊❤❤❤❤❤❤❤), I am not writing❤ you a new command but an old one, which you have had since the beginning. This old command is the message you have heard.
8 Yet I am writing you a new command; its truth is seen in him and you, because the darkness is passing and the true light is already shinning.
9 Anyone who claims to be in the light( Jesus is the Light( John 8:12)) but hates( no good) his brother is still in the darkness.
10 Whoever😊❤ loves❤ his brother 😊❤ lives😊❤ in the light❤😊, and there is nothing in him stumble. But whoever hates( "hates "is no good) his brother is in the darkness; he does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded him."( 1 John 2:7-11 Zondervan NIV Study Bible. All parenthesis parts and love❤ and joy 😊 also in and for Christ Jesus😊❤1 st❤ too in Christ.
1 John 2:12-14
" 12 I write to you, dear children, because your sins have been forgiven on account of his name.
13 I write to you, fathers because you have known him who is from the begining. I write to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one.
I write to you, dear children, because you have known the Father.
14 I write to you, fathers, because you known him who is from the beginning."( Do you remember John 1:1-2 too? In Christ)
"I write to you, young men, because you are strong,
and the word of God lives❤ in you, and you( 😊😊😊😊😊😊😊❤❤❤❤❤❤❤) have overcome😊❤ the evil one."( 1 John 2:12-14 Zondervan NIV Study Bible and all parenthesis parts and symbols also for and in Christ Jesus😊1st❤ too in Christ. PtL.
1 Corinthians 3:6-7
"6 I plantes the seed,
Apollo watered it,
but God( 😊100%❤) made it grow.
7 so neither he who plants nor he who water is anything, but only God( 😊100%❤) who makes things grow."( 1 Corinthians 3:6-7❤❤ Zondervan NIV Study Bible)
And Hebrews 12:2😊❤
I genuinely believe that God hates me, that he's always had hated me, and that he will hate me forever. There's nothing I can do about it. I try to believe, I try to have faith but there's nothing to do. I think I did everything I could do in my power, but I am just too evil to be able to have saving faith. I don't want to be like that, but I can't help it. I never really wanted to be opposed to God, to be opposed to the Gospel, but I sinned willfully too much, I post poned my repentance too much, I took God's grace for granted and now it's too late and He is showing me my mistake, he's giving me a lesson and it will last forever... There's no way he wants to help me. I used to think that He loves me and that he would be already here for me. That was a mistake. God is a father and God is love only for his children, the ones he chooses. For the rest, he is judge, and he will poor his wrath on me forever. I have absolutely no conviction that he loves me, that he wants to save me and that he loves me. The only conviction I have is what I just described and the fact that I commited the unpardonnable sin by chosing my sins over Him previously in my life. I realised my mistake, I regret it deeply, I now see how bad I am, how bad I've always been, I cried out to God so many times, asked him for forgiveness so many times, I tried to change, I tried to believe. But God just let me over to my sinful state and I am His enemy because of my heart, weither I want it or not.
I don't know if I am able to give you any hope by my words, but I pray I can.
The fact that you care at all right now is a sign of promise. So is the fact that you are conscious of your sin.
God doesn't hate you. He may be angry with you, and if your life ends in sin he will surely judge you, but never forget he knows you personally from childhood, better than you know yourself. You may be evil, or not, I don't know you, but you can't be "too evil to have saving faith", because the whole point of saving faith is making you become born again. When you are born again, it's like the evil person you were is dead, and there's is a new person who isn't guilty of those things that the evil person did. And because that new person believes and loves Jesus, God basically adopts that new you, and you will live forever with him. Don't feel that there is no escape from the evil self. And definitely don't feel that your knowledge of election is any barrier to your being saved. That's like the fictional movie character worrying about the real-life crew making the movie. Within the context of the universe, there is absolutely nothing blocking from salvation from happening to you.
You seem to already believe in the reality of God. That's terrific! Believe also in the reality of his salvation.
Before you worry about trying to change yourself, meditate day and night about this: what God loves is what is right, and what God hates is what is wrong. I think understanding that is just about the first step of what repentance means.
Most importantly, understand the work of Jesus. Who he is, what he did, and why he did it. In your case, especially why he did it. It was because he loves you.
Hey! I have a lot of empathy for your comment because so often I also struggle with believing this way. Ultimately, it is out of unbelief and pride, thinking God’s Word, which includes His offers of salvation and love, don’t apply to you. You also have unbelief about who God says He is, which is merciful and compassionate, lowly in heart, gentle. Yes, God is just and holy. But He is also loving and kind. We do not deserve His love, but He offers it!
Don’t read the Bible with unbelief. Read it and believe it when He says that He will not turn away any who believe in Him. When the God through the Bible commands you to come unto Him, do it! Have faith that He is merciful. Have faith that He is strong enough to save you.
I know it is hard, but it doesn’t depend on the strength of your faith, but the object of your faith - Jesus Christ. The good shepherd. GOOD shepherd. He isn’t malicious or conniving. He isn’t a harsh task master. He isn’t unkind so as to have you reading the Word just to treat you like a dog, sticking your nose in your poop to show you you’re a bad boy.
Do NOT believe your unbelieving heart OR Satan, who is out to deceive you and turn you against God.
Turn your eyes upon Jesus. Look full in His wonderful face. Look upon the bronze serpent (Jesus) and be healed, like the Israelites did in the desert when they’d sinned and for judgment were bitten by poisonous snakes. All the Israelites had to do was believe God’s Word when He said they would be healed by looking upon the serpent staff. Look upon Jesus. Tell Him your feelings, but don’t believe your feelings. Don’t put more faith in yourself and your feelings than you do God. He IS good. Your feelings and Satan are lying.
I will pray for you.
I tried to believe... I really did. With all the strenght that I have. But I can't. If I'm not saved after all the efforts I made, I won't ever be. There are times I thought I finally got the saving faith, but it never lasts more than one day. Why ? Because I always end up finding in my heart a part of me that doesn't really want to live for God and that still wants to live for itself. I don't want to feel that but it's totally out of my control. You have no idea how frustrating it is because I know Jesus is the way, I know I need Him, I know everything good comes from Him, etc. I believe everything the bible says.
Besides, I don't agree when people tell me to not rely on my feelings because that's not true. When you have saving faith, you are supposed to have the fruit of the Holy Spirit which are peace, love, kindness, etc. You are supposed to be grateful to your Savior, to be longing to obey Him and all, to have a genuine hate for sins. I have none of that, even when I put in my mind that God has forgiven me. That doesn't lead me to have none of what I just described, that doesn't lead me to have a new heart, to have a worshipping heart. That sucks. And now, I don't have faith it will change one day. I don't know how many times I asked God to give me a new heart, to give me the freedom to worship Him, to make me genuinely hate my sins, to help me truly beliving in Him, etc.
That sucks because I know I am such a bad person deserving hell. I know my sins are so ugly, I regret them. But it's the only conviction that I have. That I am a sinner, that I am bad, that the way I've lived my life was very bad and that I deserve hell so badly. But in spite of all that, that doesn't lead me to change and to have new holy desires. Because I can't believe. I can't rest in Christ and receive His grace with all my heart no matter how hard I try. I really want to. But I can't. It's so frustrating.
I'm not blaming God because I got what I previously chose. I knew I wasn't on the right track and that I had to repent. But I loved my sins too much and the more I resisted, the more I hardened my heart. Now I regret, but that's too late. Maybe God loves me, but I have no clue, I have absolutely zero conviction about that. I don't feel anything anymore. The only time I felt something is when I felt his wrath. I don't know why I wrote that. I shouldn't have because after all the time I tried to have the saving faith I haven't managed and deep down I know I have no hope. I guess I'm looking for someone who went through what I'm going through, or for some encouragements, but I should not because I know I'm a lost cause. So I'm actually being selfish by wanting encouragements because I know I'm wasting people's time because I know there's no hope and that nobody can help me.
Thank you anyways
I had similar thoughts at one point and for a long time the only scriptures that stuck out to me were the ones about condemnation and wrath and judgement
and I believe the Lord spoke to me one night as I was writing in my journal the I I believe the Lord said that I was hoping in his wrath and judgement
I think that's what you are doing as well your hope is in His wrath and judgement
I encourage you to try to start hoping in His goodness and mercy as I'm now also starting to do
Wow you won't believe what just happened as I decided to get my Bible to encourage you with scripture I believe the Lord led me straight to the verse in Psalms this is amazing!!!
I'm sure you know how big the bible is how many pages and for me to open it up and fip right to the verse I wanted to share with you is absolutely amazing❤️❤️❤️
Jesus loves us you know He died for you too
Okay here is the verse
Psalm 86:5
For you Lord art good and ready to forgive; and plenteous in mercy unto all them that call upon thee
Psalm 86:15
But thou O Lord art a God full of compassion, and gracious, long-suffering and plenteous in mercy and truth
I encourage you to take you time meditating on those verse so that they get in your spirit so that you won't be weighed down with discouragement and hopelessness.
I encourage you to do what the Lord helped me to do that is get rooted and settled in His love for you as a child
Ask yourself these questions
Do you believe the bible is the word of God
Do you believe that Jesus was born of Mary the virgin came and died and the Father rose Him on the 3rd day? He died for our sins and the sins of the whole world and He rose for our justification
Have you ever repented of your sins and asked Jesus to be your Lord and savior and to give you His holy Spirit
Something we all have to do daily is choose to turn away from the things that we want to do that displease the Lord and deny ourself and choose instead to do what the the Lord desires for us to do...
Just take it day to day little by little and don't give up and be encouraged and if you mess up confess up to the Lord and even if you have to ask Him to help you stop doing those things you know are wrong .
I believe He doesn't look at a struggle or weakness the same as He does willful intentional unapologetic sin
But regardless a child is always their fathers child no matter what they do or don't do.
If you have kids you can see the correlation
No matter what a child does or doesn't do pleases or displease their Father regardless of their behavior or attitude or lifestyle they will always be a child.
But we strive to be obedient children not disobedient children
So strive you can do all things through Christ who strengthens you.
Everything the Lord has asked us to do He has given His grace for us to do it.
Sometimes it's the devil telling us lies in the mind that we can't or we messed up too much or it's too hard to live for the Lord but if it's was impossible the Lord wouldn't even expect us to.
You have to keep trying and don't let your sins stop you.
Spend some time praying to the Lord
Maybe you don't know were to start a good place is to give thanks for everything you know is because of Him such as life heath sight hearing strength in your body food on your table clothes on your back a place to stay etc.
You may have to ask Him to heal you from rejection and abandonment issues look at your past and childhood and see if you can notice any signs of past rejection teasing abandonment and ask the Lord to heal you of all sorts of abuse and trauma
Sometimes it's because of the unhealed past that effects our present
Also you have to forgive anyone that hurt you and also choose to be humble that's what I'm doing choosing humility over pride
When you open the word of God KJV...
Choose to believe EVERYTHING you read even of it goes against your natural mind and thoughts because sometimes it will because you have to get your mind renewed so do I
You are not alone and there are others that can relate to what you have felt.
I don't believe the Lord is done with you.
Perhaps He's just getting started❤️❤️❤️
Go forth in Jesus name
Day to day
Little by little
Read and believe
If God says it( and He does)
Then that settles it
We can trust the Word of God
Hebrews says that God can not lie
Every parent can understand electing and damning their kids, right? Of my 4, it is easy to select 2 for election to show my grace and select two for damnation to show my justice
Are you agreeing or....not i really can't tell Sorry. I thought at first you were being sarcastic but not sure
@@mlady8137 I am 100% being sarcastic. this is a sick doctrine and is not supported Biblically. thoughts?
@@rocketsurgeon1746 thanks for replying. I'm glad I was right then. To be honest this doctrine has been causing me immense trouble these past few months. I got introduced to it last year although I knew it existed as a denomination but I didn't look into it fully. Since then it's confused me and caused me to loose faith in what I've believed for the past 15 years as a Christian. I think I still agree with about 4 points of the TULIP but this particular one has me confused.
@@rocketsurgeon1746 Do you have a particular domination you adhere to?
@@mlady8137 great to hear. I don't find tulip to be Biblical after years of listening to sproul, jmac and piper. They sold it, but i wasn't buying after reading the Bible for myself without being told what a verse means. Just read your Bible, preach the Gospel and use your brain :) God bless you!
I'm more compassionate than calvigod, the Calvinistic caricature of God. Mathematical proof provided upon request.
I bet even God chosen people who was so evil or doing evil that no one on earth would think or even the devil would think is save-able. Remember that God can take something bad and make it good and for his glory. He can save anyone he chooses.
Like to really piss off the devil or confuse him and win the game. Is the save someone the devil thinks is going to hell .to ruin the devil's plans .to take away the devil plans and victories.
Doubling DAHN on the five points
Why can't anybody think they're unsavable? God may not have chosen them and they won't be able to generate faith even if they want, just because they were not chosen :-(
Why can't everybody think they're chosen? God gave his only Son to die for them, gave them a Bible to read, gave them a desire to seek him and his word and his ways, offers to do everything they couldn't for them, and many other things I don’t even have time or space to write? Or even enough knowledge? Why is it people choose to be pessimist when it comes to the utter Supremacy of God, instead of the little supremacy of their free will? Why not say, "I've made wrong choices so I'll do it again"? Or "I'm not different from anybody else so why are my ideas any better than somebody else's?" Because it's easy to say hard to do, that's why. It's also ridiculous compared to the rewards. You could sit stagnant and whine about not knowing things you can't know, like the millions and millions of other things everyone will never know, or you cam go to the source and figure it out. Careful, you might just be chosen.
@@xavierthomas5835 Evidently, in Calvinistic theology, some are arbitrarily not chosen, and are not given a chance to even want to pursue these things so they just don't...
@@izaswierczynska6618Why do you say arbitrary when we are specifically told God elects according to his purpose? Unconditional election means not based on what we've done, it does not mean arbitrary.
@@timothyflaherty5150 that's what I believe, too ;)
Calvinistic interpretation seems to me arbitrary but I don't presume to have any answer to it. There's some great mystery in the tension between the work of grace in salvation and human response...
@@izaswierczynska6618 Hello iza. Indeed, but then life itself is a mystery! But when God wants us to know why we believe, He says things like this in Acts 13:48---
"...and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed."
Those who don't believe also don't want to. So we thank God for His gift of our faith!
So it is a mystery because God can be mysterious! How awesome!
May God bless you iza! The Lord is good!
These teachers are evil
Calvinism is false fr
Short sell Calvinism
So, more proof he has favorites. This explains a lot. No point in putting in effort here.
I am not a Calvinist, but God definitely has favorites
Protestantism leads to legalism or atheism. Leave now and find Orthodoxy. God does not choose who will be saved, but rather wishes that all would be saved and let’s us choose whether to accept his free gift of grace. We are granted salvation, which we do not deserve, out of His mercy, through our faith in Jesus which is made evident by our good works. It is a simple and beautiful doctrine. Flee from these Protestant heresies.
Hello dp. You are Roman Catholic? I just posed this question to someone else, but with your background I would be interested in your response.
Biblically, which of these two is more glorious:
1) That God save everybody He made (and God made everybody).
or...
2) That the gloriousness of God's grace as well as all his glorious attributes be displayed.
Who says we do not deserve salvation? Why not? After all, if I am choosing God, don't I deserve salvation or some reward? 🤔
@@suryaraj7645 The Bible says we deserve condemnation not salvation. The Bible also says salvation is a gift, which by definition you neither earn nor deserve.
"Unconditional Election" proves the sovereign Calvinist potter God is an impersonal, whimsical, discriminatory, unjust, merciless, God of evil randomness who denies the non-elect, non-predestined goat people of *EVER* having a chance, or a hope, or a prayer, of *EVER* receiving his so-called "Grace"!
By your measure, doesn't the God of conditional election not even try to save those who wouldn't already choose Him? Kind of like a lifeguard who watches someone drown but is powerless to act until he is asked? Or a policeman who watches someone commit suicide because it is the person's choice? These systems are two sides of the same coin. They've been argued for endlessly. Both have almost the same points for/against one another. Thankfully, they are both seeking to describe the indescribable greatness of God's goodness. Eventually, our words and concepts fail us and we are reminded to have the simple faith of a child. Salvation is from God and not of ourselves. Praise be to Jesus for salvation.
But JohnQ, if God doesn't call, if God doesn't elect, NONE of us would be saved by Jesus dying on the cross. There certainly wasn't anything in me saying I needed God. Salvation is His plan and He is the sovereign God.
@@27stewarBut in your view, the lifeguard also just stands by and watches people drown, correct? If the one drowning is not unconditionally chosen by the lifeguard to be saved, they will stand callously idle as they drown. On the other view, the lifeguard is not watching and waiting idly, they are jumping into the water and actively trying to pull the drowning person to safety, while the one drowning is kicking and screaming and pushing their savior away. God’s earnest desire is to save everyone, and yet not all are saved, therefore something must stand in the way of His saving everyone. That something is the absolute refusal of many to be saved.
Who deserves salvation? Who can charge God with wrong doing because they deserved salvation and were non-elect?
The really important verse that gets left out is Rom 8:29 which says whom he FOREKNEW . God knows us before our conception even do He knows who will accept or reject his salvation.
Amen