Lord of the Rings Tier List A-G | Commander Clash Podcast 101
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 ต.ค. 2024
- We rank all the Lord of the Rings legendary creatures on how good they would be in the command zone! With over 120 new options, this will be a 2 part mini series!
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Find the tier list in our show notes! www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/commander-clash-podcast-101-lord-of-the-rings-tier-list-a-g
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Richard's candid "Ill do that" to Bill the Pony Voltron, you can physically see the sticky note enter Richard's brain lol.
That's what we all want! Richard pony jank!
"I think Wizards design these Legends in like, packages almost where you're supposed to like, play Eowyn as your commander and then Eomer is really good in that deck."
very exciting to see Seth discover the concept of precon decks
Sure, but Seth was talking about the Eomer from the main set, the mono red Eomer.
Seth realizing the 'packages' of creatures with Eomer and Eowyn is really funny because it's like, duh, they're literally in the same precon lol
Seth discovers preconstructed decks 😅
Seth hasn't heard of precons
Elenor Gardner does not require you to sac the food to the food ability, anything that can sacrifice Food will trigger the rampant growth. So cards like Gilded Goose are not just turning food into mana theyre turning them into ramp too
Not to mention the fact that there are non-token Foods like Golden Egg, and Lembas
I agree tho, better in 99 then as a commander
Bilbo is S tier simply for the .1% of the time when you get to activate the second ability while yelling “it’s my a hundred and eleventh birthday!”
I was able to get this trigger off on the 3rd game I played it and I ended up with like 500 life and 18 creatures on the field all with like 200 power. It was awesome. The other people at the table thought it was cool when it happened.
Congregate was the card that helped me gain 40 life to put me over 111.
I want to make a button with the sound clip that I can slam.
Farmer Cotton is Rosies dad and therefore Sams father in law and Elanor Gardners grandpa.
He was mostly in the last part of the last book.
Gandalf the White and Elesh Norn, Mother of Machines arent triggered abilities, they're static abilities with continuous effects so Elesh Norn doubling the ETB of a non-legendary will not then allow Gandalf to work
Imagine making bill your ring-bearer and then keeping his power as low as possible so you can have an "unblockable" one-shot.
I'm legitimately surprised that Bilbo 111 is a real card. When the crew was talking about it last episode, I thought they made the card up during the episode...
Ahhhh!! I love that Richard casually has Rillakuma sitting behind him
Director's Cut Tier List!
Yes please. I want the 20 minute conversation about the uncommon Éomer😂😂
Richard: Just exile remove it.
Also Richard: spot removal is bad.
I built mono white boromir as an angel tribal deck (on moxfield 'one does not simply cast spells for free') and have piloted it in a few higher power pods and haven't lost yet. The first ability usually hoses at least one or two decks, but the true power is having a recastable selfless spirit makes it really difficult for your opponents to sweep and turns all your wipes into one-sided affairs. The play pattern it allows for fixes the main problems creature decks suffer from. You play it in addition to a very heavy protection/phasing/indestructible package, most decks can't answer both at once. Having a legendary looter in mono white can also get a ton of value. I totally disagree with the ranking here, he is a solid A maybe even S compared to other mono white offerings if you factor in building around some ring tempts and legends matter cards like relic of legends. Edit: someone cast a possibility storm into it lol
Got a link to the deck?
Your rankings are skewed. You said you're ranking on power but. Your ranking is simultaneously affected by compariing them to each other. Youre not ranking the card on its objective power. Eomer is a prime example. Tomer is right and. You are all insane.
*someone doesn't like an archetype*
"But it can be farewelled"
I’m curious what Selesnya decks that Seth and Richard are playing that can regularly counter Farewell 😂
@@andyspendlove1019 "Just play teferi's protection 🤓"
I think Cirdan, the Shipright is a super unique card that probably appeals to chaos style players who love disrupting the entire match which is usually a red or black effect.
since you have already mentioned gollum, is it possible to submit Smeagol, Helpful Guide in part 2 later? I plan to build a commander deck with him. many cards with rings tempt you, a bit of landfall and reanimate from the opponent's deck.
They're going in alphabetical order so they'll get to it in the next one or the one afterwards probably.
@@victorperron8092 Thanks for the info.
If you activate Bilbo you should instantly win because you just place Fellidor Sovreign on your board in your opponents end step.
Or you grab Vito and soul sisters and the ammount of SS triggers just kills your opponents. Like the activated ability is a certified win button
Also, like you can spike feeder or something and go infinite life so even getting to 111 shouldnt be a problem, the thing to watch out for is commader damage or win the game effects out of your opponent.
Bad card, C is probably correct
Nah, it's surprisingly difficult to get even 100 life against good opponents. He's another value card to buffer your life gain and help feed your life paying more. Sure, you will pull the activation off some times, but it's going to be rare.
Honestly i would use Arwyn Undomil as a combat trick. You can gat a lot of commander damage in out of nowhere.
I'm surprised they didn't mention her as a combo commander. If you can generate infinite colored mana (not hard in simic), you have an outlet in your command zone that makes your board infinitely large and can perfectly stack your deck
I built one and while it isn't incredible powerful, it is incredibly fun to play with load of janky cards that almost never see play. Lots of fun
Sorry but why would the Cirdam player ever vote for themselves? Wouldn't you build your deck to slam big free permanents?
Doesn't that force the table to vote for you in fear of a turn 4 omniscience?
Gimli of the glittering caves is best friends with Norin the wary right, twice round any moderately active table and hes terrifying
Still would rather just play yoshimaru
@@jadegrace1312 That's fair, partner adds a lot, but I like that early on gimli can be his own ramp
For Faramir triple token maker, there are a decent number of forced combat cards Seth. Taunt, Siren's Call, Alluring Siren, plus the monarch cards like the other Faramir, Palace Jailer, Court of Grace, Archivist of Gondor, then there's coveted jewel.
really surprised how high they were on eowyn shieldmaiden. she does nothing the first turn she comes into play. for a 5 mana commander i would like some kind of payoff immediately.
She does if you make another human that turn
There are tonnes of ways to make a human the turn you play her
Having played against her, I can testify that she is indeed a house and snowballs out of control incredibly fast.
Omen Machine is how you would lock with Boromir.
I’m gonna go on a little rant and say that I hate the “gets boarded by Farewell” argument in reducing the power of a otherwise decent and fun archetype. We get it, everything gets boarded by Farewell unless you have the answer right then and there. It’s like, oh that niche but still pretty strong go wide commander sucks cause it gets exiled by Farewell. Everything does, that’s the point of the card. Outside of planeswalkers and battle Farewell gets rid of everything the controller doesn’t want to see, so I don’t think it’s a fare argument to judge power level by. Now if some commander gets AROUND Farewell, the the spirits commander that I don’t know if they talked about cause I paused to make this rant, THAT’S something to judge the power of a commander on. Anyway, rant done, you guys are still awesome~
I agree with seth on Bilbo! You can just fuck the game over with stacks and life gain and win with easy combos in the colors. The activation ends the game if you dont kill bilbo
gollum goes infinite with ratadrabik and any free sac outlet, cause you make the token legendary with the ring emblem.
better with boromir
Boromir and the Nazgul are better are it. No mana investment needed
@@julianalvarez4231 boromir doesn't need a sac outlet but the nazgul do. I've got a ratadrabik deck with all the fixings and I usually win with gollum + altar of dementia or boromir +elas il kor.
I think a peasant week using commanders from this set only would be pretty sweet. Tons of interesting commanders at uncommon here
The Gollum combo I initially thought of was Skirge Familiar + Bone Miser + any aristocrat.
I feel like it might be more interesting to rate them based on subjective impressions of how much fun or how interesting of commanders they would make, rather than how they'd perform at a table where everyone's hyper-optimizing. Because yeah, sure, a lot of these cards are pretty worthless as cEDH commanders and oh-I'm-not-cEDH-I-promise commanders. That's why I like this set: it isn't pandering to the attitude that has made commander considerably more rote and formulaic.
Yes, Bill and Bill are bad cards. Yet Bill Ferny offers up a hilarious and unique way to play Arcane Adaptation/Xenograft/Maskwood Nexus in order to donate stupid stuff. Bill the Pony offers up an interesting way to fuse blink effects, skulk effects, and toughness-matters cards in a more limited color than Arcades or Doran for a fun challenge. Whereas Elrond, Lord of Rivendell and Boromir, Gondor's Hope just don't really have any creative application from the command zone to speak of.
ALL OF THIS
"If I review one more legendary creatures that will be the most number of commanders that I have covered."
"Come on Tomer."
I'm pretty hyped for White Rider as a Lieutenant to my God Eternal Oketra deck. Turning spell casts into card selection and power on board is sweet, and really unique for Mono White.
My Galadriel of lothlorien deck can turbo out lands like no one’s business. The problem I am having is finding an adequate finisher for the deck. Any suggestions are appreciated and welcome.
This podcast helped me finally realize something about Richard that gives him his unique perspective but that also makes him so frustrating to listen to at times: he is 0% a Timmy and 0% a Johnny and 100% a Spike.
He doesn’t care about doing giant flashy things like most Commander players, for fear that it’ll all “just get Farewelled” etc. And he has no interest in jumping through hoops to make a tricky but intriguing commander work, as in his discussion of the precon Frodo and Sam, like most Commander players. Instead, he’s focused on cards that will reliably give you value while also maximizing your win percentage, usually by doing a lot but not enough to paint a target on your back.
He’s like a Legacy or Modern player trapped in a Commander podcast 😂 He’s obviously brilliant, having cracked the code on a lot of EDH theory, like Secret Rendezvous effects. But in a lot of other ways, he just doesn’t personally care about what the majority of other commander players care about: janky deckbuilding and flashy plays.
I don't know how to use it, but with the ring machanic a 0 power creature are basically unblockable... even if they deal damage equal thier power.
Treefolk have plenty of cards that make you do damage with toughness. Do with that information what you want.
You guys should have just say that Frodo can carry a dowsing dagger and Richard would have been happier. I still thing that you were a little weird in some places (Eomer not being excelent?) but nice episode.
EDIT: Well, i feel kind of sad now. I don't really feel much of "i want to try this characters as commander/i really feel this part of the book or movie". Perfect level for modern but not many commanders.
Clarification for the card that sinergize with sacrificing food like Elanor (mainly elanor in fact). You don't need to use the food just to sac it, meaning it sinergize with anything that want to sacrifice permanents/artifact or just things that sac food for value like 90% of the Hobbits
Here’s the good combo for gollum patient plotter. Use buried alive to get dread return, gollum and protean hulk and then u use dread return to reanimate protean hulk and and gollum to sac it. It’s 1 card and 4 to win the game which is a great and very efficient combo even by CEDH standards
Gollum doesnt chump attack. He either is removed from combat or becomes unlockable
The fact that Tomer put Aragorn the Uniter at "low A maybe high B' but then somehow puts Eomer at A as well makes me a little suspect about his criteria.
I think Eomer is a lot better than folks are giving credit. Can easily come down as a 7/7+ double striker, kills something, and makes you monarch. For 5 mana that's a ton of value.
Saying something is bad because it dies to farewell is just the dies to removal argument. If it was a valid argument then dranith magistrate would be fine because it dies to farewell or any other removal
Bilbo is my favorite. I believe I have built the ultimate lifegain deck without combos. Tonight will be my first time testing out my Bible
Council's Dilema is bar far the way more impacted mechanic with Erestor of the Council.
Like casting Expropiate then voting time with Erestor on the board is fucked up. Do you think someone like Seth is not gonna take the treasure and deny you a scry? Selvala's Stampede also goes pretty hard.
Plus he's a natural fit for Planechase since theres also Will of the Planeswalkers now.
There should be a ranking for how fun/interesting a card looks/plays instead of just comparing it to other powerful options. Does this card enable a fun deck? Would I want to run it? I don't know, power level wise cards are only going to look worse unless we have more powercreep, so why not shout out interesting instead of powerful?
My friend is a frodo and sam main, those commanders are basically a kill on sight for me bc if you give sam more than one turn itll spiral out of control
hear me out though... aragorn uniter but youre just playing red blue storm to omegacombo people lol you can be SO consistent in draws because of the scry 2 trigger, and your red cards for storm end up letting you snipe a player down real fast. don't even bother with white and green cards for the most part in the deck other than hyper clutch cards like teferis pro level BS cards.
1:13:40 oh Richard. the irony after the latest commander clash is hilarious
Did Crim study it in the Prof's class?
I’m glad that not everyone underrated Éomer, King of Rohan. He’s in white and can be blinked for continuous damage to ANY target, he gives you card draw, and has direct synergy with Gilraen, Dúnedain Protector (she allows you to gain a ton of life from his trigger when you inevitably get attacked for being the monarch). Very powerful human tribal commander and deserves a hard A in my opinion.
agreed. this is a scary dude to see in a command zone cause people are gonna build it right and every now and then they're gonna pop off and wreck your shit. also black is absolutely NOT required for a "human" deck.
To be fair, Aragorn and Arwen wed could be interesting if you could have a token/blink engine.
Farmer cotton is Rosie's dad, who married Sam, and rallied the hobbits to take down saruman. He is relegated to a background character but is present in the movie series.
Could wotc not get rites to use the likeness of the actor for Aragorn?
What's the point of a ratings system if every commander that isn't one of the best for an archetype is automatically a D or C, unless Seth and Crim seriously believe that the mono white Boromir and Eomer are on basically the same level as Bill the Pony and the horse salesman like cmon
I know it's a lot to remember in the moment, but it does kill me when they read the card aloud and immediately forget what it does in the discussion.
Nobody will ever block the Scheming Guide
Wait does Richard think Elrond of the White Council pumps the opponents boards with the “aid” vote…? He kept saying “pump *their* board” instead of “your board.” Maybe that’s why he thinks it’s a D. Like Tomer said, if you build your deck correctly, the floor is ETB put three counters on your board and then the ceiling is all kinda of flicker shenanigans.
Four counters on your board*, unless an opponent doesn’t have a creature, in which case I think they can still vote for fellowship and just not give you anything.
OK, so hear me out. Mono blue Elrond... in Koma... it's been great so far.
This is the first episode that made me think Richard has played commander before
Nice! Been waiting to hear all your thoughts on the set.
Éomer, Marshal of Rohan is really really good he goes infinite with Blade of Selves and Overall makes such a fun deck. Mono Red Legends is really funny as red legends are pretty diverse.
They did Boromir dirty in this set. He was much stronger than they made him in card form. He was the strongest in terms of physical power.
I built a mono white build (on moxfield 'one does not simply cast spells for free') and have piloted it in a few higher power pods and haven't lost yet. The first ability usually hoses at least one or two decks, but the true power is having a recastable selfless spirit makes it really difficult for your opponents to sweep and turns all your wipes into one-sided affairs. Having a legendary looter in mono white can also get a ton of value. I totally disagree with the ranking here, he is a solid A maybe even S if you factor in building around some ring tempts.
Great podcast, but can you please balance the volume levels of all hosts, found it super distracting that Seth was so much louder and Tomer so much quieter
Looking forward to your rating of "Smeagol, Helpful Guide". I built a deck with him that turned out surprisingly good, and had to tune it down for my group.
Same. Do u have the original list?
I feel like Elrond, Master of Healing (or Arwen Undómiel) could be a good commander if you go for the combo with Elrond, Lord of Rivendell (or Season of Growth) and Scurry Oak (or Herd Baloth), it's a 3 card combo with redundancy on each piece, can't be too bad.
Richard is mega underrating Elrond. It is quite a strong simic +1/+1 counter commander that also has great blink synergies. Who cares if you steal their worst creatures, that's once less thing that can attack you, and it gets pumped as well. You do this a few times and eventually they have no choice but to just choose aid, and now your team is massive. Also the mulldrifter comparison is silly because mulldrifter can't be in your command zone
I did just this when I upgraded the pre-con and used Elrond as the commander. He is surprisingly strong, even against other token decks that are giving you a small 1/1 token. Pair him with Thassa, Deep Dwelling and he starts to become a nightmare.
1:47:08 This version of Gollum is never in danger when he attacks. When you lose the guessing game, Gollum removes himself from combat.
eomer with squee goes pretty hard right?
my selesnya katilda deck is a great example of how flimsy the argument is that a humans deck needs access to black. i don't even run targeted removal (except druid of purification) and i guarantee it is just as brutal as any black deck but more gooder. i don't ever see a black deck put out 10-20 lands at once, draw their entire deck then exile all opponents creatures just to be a dick cause i'm just gonna win with a halo fountain without attacking anyways. consistently.
I'm surprised they didn't reference Taigam and how well he plays with a lot of these cards.
Which Taigam? Oujati Master?
using the Skulk part of being the ringbearer so that Taigam can safely attack and get the rebound effect?
Top Tip in elvish names and words the C makes a K sound even when followed by an E.
Tomer def had the best opinions this episode
I wish I could get a dollar for every time Seth says "like", I would go and buy me one copy of every card discussed in this video.
"Like, auuchhhhhaaaahhhhh"
My best take at writing out Seth sighing.
And a dollar for every time Richard says “Right?”
izzet bilbo seems like a nice 'catch all' izzet commander, if you don't want to build you 101 spelslinger commander
It’s actually a pretty decent Voltron commander. It essentially reads as a 3 CMC 1/3 unblockable, then if you are able to blink it a single time it gains the loot on attack and pseudo deathtouch. Blink this twice or cast twice and it bolts your opponents every turn… seems legit
Am I crazy or are they evaluating all these cards as if the Ringbearer mechanic does nothing? Gollum is going to have a bunch of abilities and be near norin level difficult to get rid of.
Great insight guys!
So The Gaffer is somehow in T? Librarians everywhere are shaking their heads.
I don't think that "this card is worse because another exists that has more colors which can do a similar thing" is an entirely valid criticism, as is mentioned in Fangorn vs Doran as well as the discussionabout king Eomer. There are so many new cards being created all the time that there is almost always a better card. And while adding a color gives you more options it does come with drawbacks such as the need to ensure mana fixing, as well as a bunch of other "must plays" from that color that can make you feel more restricted in deck building.
The title made me think y'all had changed the tier rankings down from "S-F" to "A-G" lol
Gimli loves me some Eldrazi Tokens! Sac them for mana, make Gimli big and fight people. Profit!
Gimli Eldrazi sounds cool!
Arwen mortal queen argument about indestructible.. sounds like a lot of work to just instead play avacyn 😅
Gloin I think is hella underrated, there are many ways that artifacts can be given flash, even in mono red (shimmer myr, Liberator, Orrery, etc), and I think goading is a really strong mechanic at low power. Definitely building him!
I'm quite tired of the argument that something dies to farewell. Of course it does, that's the whole point of the card. To be able to answer nearly anything in the game. You could argue with every single commander and value engine piece that they die to farewell. Before I guess the proper word would be they are exiled by farewell.
Getting 111 life is so fucking easy what lmao. Especially in abzan
And a trash strategy lol
If you wanna gain life just go infinite
Or just play "have 40+ life win game" cards
@@aklepatzky wdym trash? Point of playing edh is for the variety of strategies. I could just say any other strategy other than cedh combo lines are trash lmao
This is the first abzan lifegain commander with a unique ability.
How y’all made an S (or at the very least A tier) Gandalf the White as a B? Make it make sense
Gollum, Obsessed Stalker feels like just a worse version of Vito, The Dusk Rose. Way more hoops to jump through.
Why isn't Tomer hosting?
So Cirdan is a tier. Players are very greedy and very scared of giant spaghetti monsters. My list is all the best creatures in mtg and cheap fogs and countermagic. It is sweet
Ps nobody plays it where we all voted for ourselves. We all guessed and got inside everyone's head. It's a blast
120 legends in a set is disgusting lol
Yo Richard, how did you pronounce fanghorn or as some know him as, treebeard. Faragorn?! Yikes papafish
Eomer, Marshal of Rohan.. You gotta broaden those minds when assessing these cards I think. This guy can go infinite and pretty easily. Blade of Selves.. Myriad for lets say 3 copies of him.. They all die on etb thats 3 extra combats.. combats in which you attack again with Blade of Selves for more tokens that etb and die again for more comabts.. Helm of Hosts is actually less efficient in a sense but with a sac outlet it works the same. Plenty of other red cards that make token copies of the commander and as a result will cause them to die give you those combats.. Orthion, Hero of Lavabrink could be bonkers.. Anyway.. Just sayin ;)
You only get 1 combat, not 3, its whenever 1 or more other attacking legends die. The or more means it only triggers once regardless of how many die at the same time.
Green Arwen also goes infinite with persist creatures.
Woodall Primus is so gross with that...
Can’t believe y’all did my boy Beregond like that 😓
Some mean rankings in this episode 😄
Boromir, Warden of the Tower is S+ tier in Historic Brawl. All those Imoti and Etali getting fcked
I love lotr but so many of these commanders are just bad, I’m gutted by the bad balrogs and lack of Smaug commander. My favorite commander so far has been lobelia defender of bag end
I don't like the criteria that they use in their debate. If you've got a two color commander, you're automatically bad because there are 3 color commanders. If you want to build a red white humans deck, Eomer should be rated by his merit of how powerful you can make that deck against similar cars, as opposed to every other deck that's more than 2 colors.
47:48 goes infinite with flame rush rider
If your commander was gloin and you played dockside to goad my creatures I would be mad for using dockside on such a horrible deck.
No shelob??
This list needs F for Flavor 😅