Just add to the excitement: Brian actually built this combination way back in 2010, back when L 92 heads were gaining popularity, but nobody knew how to properly cam them and time the valve events. He was an absolute guru with cathedral port head architecture, and all of the strongest running LS engines were running TFS heads in the appropriate sizes. He and I worked together on my 2005 GTO that I used to road race. I had some very specific goals in mind utilizing TFS235 heads with softened chambers so that I could run 12:1 SCR on pump gas. With a medium cam and good drivability, the motor made 640 on the engine dyno, and 550 at the tires…through a built 6 speed manual in an IRS car. And this was in spite of the handicap of having only a 4.00 inch bore to work with. The car went 10.90s at 128mph naturally aspirated back in 2013, when all the fastest street cars are running about 126-130 traps. I’m genuinely proud of Brian for what he has accomplished with BTR, and I’m very fortunate that his knowledge, and my attention to detail, were able to make some fantastic power that surprised a lot of people. 🍻 ❤️
Interesting build. A few years ago I was looking for a cathedral port head for my 402 build. BTR recommended the TFS 245 and Nick at BTR spec'd out a cam where I wanted it to peak at 6900 and be able to spray it hard. It made 649 hp on the pump and had a nice flat torque curve that was over 540 at 4k rpm. Very impressed with such a simple combo.
I love these where the motor by itself is pushed to the max - utilizing all the tricks. Also I think this shows that swirl, port velocity, correct sizing of the valves and other factors are much more important than just hogging out 'holes' to get power. Great under the curve power too.
That is one impressive torque curve! As I recall, the factory LSX454 was 750 hp, even more than the then-biggest 572 BBC. It was not, however, a street engine, probably would not run on pump gas…don’t remember. I guess Brian wanted to use those TFS 245s, but the GenX 255s or 260s would seem to be a better choice for power. Maybe not for that torque curve, though. I don’t want to second guess the man, i think he knows what he’s doing! Very interesting story, thanks Richard!
It’s was LSx454R with 13:1 and it hit over 750hp with a solid roller cam. I bought the crate LSx454 but been trying to figure which cam to use to make more than 627hp it’s at now
When you gave the cam specs, the exhaust having 15° more duration than the intake sife didn't make sense to me... Then you mentioned reducing the size of the exhaust valve and giving it a 50° valve job. Equilibrium restored.
One of the best videos you have made. I appreciate that you publicly humble yourself and are not afraid to show that you are wrong but most importantly support it with data. Keep it going man. You made a die hard fan out of me.
I actually built my own 427 version of this build nearly exact ( slightly different Cam Profile and Pistons) and can testify .....its an absolute beast on the Drag Strip in a HONEST 72 Rally Nova with old school Borg Warner 4speed complete with Mr.Gasket Vertical Gate new old stock shifter ....and one HELL OF A LOT OF FUN TO JUST DRIVE !
I actually run 2 fuel tanks in the trunk one that's chilled and is for racing and one for street driving. Helped me solve a couple of issues that I kept running up against. See I'm an old school Carb guy and drug my feet as hard and long as I could to avoid the obvious. I was in the middle of building a new 427 big block for my street car and got a chance to latch on to this engine for penny's really and started hitting salvage yards from Iowa to Idaho and gathered a fairly impressive bunch of parts and pieces in my quest for what I wanted. P.S. .....The old school 1967 original GM 4 bolt 427 is still sitting on the Engine Stand in the Corner waiting quietly for me to finish it.....someday.
My birthday is in April it would make a great birthday present for me to put in my 2004 Chevy 2500 HD my LQ4 is making a lot of noise in the valve train upon acceleration. ''LOL'' great work still loving your videos Richard
Brian has a much better touch on reality of engines than Richard does 😆 This engine and similar combinations has been done over and over by us in industry for last 15+ years Softening chambers is process of taking the quench area (flat part) away to make it more hemispherical kinda so its not so timing sensitive, often in power adder scenarios
With 600 foot pounds or more of torque from 4100rpm to 6100rpm you better have a serious suspension setup that works well planting the rear tires on the street it would be a monster and dangerous in the wrong hands
To be honest with everyone i am not surprised by the H.P. numbers at all. My son made 525 rear wheel though a automatic over 10 years ago with a 346. That's close too 600 H.P. flywheel, and it was 12.1 to 1 run on 93 with a splash of 100 octane. Stock short block that had the pistons relieved for the valves. The part of Brians build that is impressive is the T.Q.
Anything that has good power at 2000-5000 rpm is streetable, it's not the peak power rpm that makes it streetable. Unless you run peak power rpm on the streets all the time.
Well thank you Richard you might have just taught me what I did right in my turbo bike. Iv been running 14.5:1cr with 35psi @ 46°advance on 93. I do chill my fuel with dry ice over 25psi but I hadn't found one thing that was big enough on its own to help so much with detonation. Turns out I'm sure the stuff I did helped but something I did that I didn't realize had this benefit was soften the chamber. Duh lol I thought I was just deshrouding and while I was there I thought let's soften these edges itl help with heat. Just now did it hit me that that was probably a big piece to my puzzle. Thank you rich and ever try offset boring with logger rods? I know that's one thing I did that helped make things possible .
@@richardholdener1727 it's an xr200 I have a few vids of it up making new ones as I get better at filming. Not much xr200 left inside it but the head and bore are still the same. So far it picks up power with it over less and stock is 42 from Honda. I'm on the 9th version of this motor so Iv broke stuff lol. And last pull was 36psi then the charge pipe blew off and she ate herself. Currently finishing the newest engine with a new oil system (more pressure and flow) and a new clutch I whipped up to use boost to assist the springs so she locks up faster. I race 660/330ft with it. You inspire me dude and you also re lit the flame that made me dig this project out from my HS days and get serious about it. Wish me luck hopefully we can get 50psi out of her later this week. Don't judge my fuel system too much lol it does work and so far iv kept it safe.
Do you have to run 93? Can you e85? I have to say those numbers are crazy town to me 46* 35on the gauge and 93? The freezing the fuel has to be doing something. 46 to me seems way out in front. Is turbo maxed out on the compressor side and you going for power with timing? I’ve heard of 32F charge air temps running 28* on 14 psi. This is interesting def checking it out
@@hondatech5000 yeah it seemed crazy to me too but I tare down to inspect pretty often and so far aside from pushing the wrist pin into the piston some it always comes out nice. I did indeed mean 46° advance. I run e85 when I can get it so normally pump gas. With dry ice I can get the fuel down to about -100°f give or take I see about 380 coming from the turbo and about 0-30°f across the carb on gas and about -40--20 on e85. Technically speaking I'm way past the compressor wheels range stock but I had this one made and I have no map for it. Was told by the guys that made it should be good for 50-60psi should know this week. I'm also hoping this newest wheel and a seriously cutback turbine wheel will have better iat. I do rev to 14000rpm most of the time although I have touched 17 before.but she's well rolled over by then. Currently the goal is 1/2hp per cc were 155cc and I'm hoping I can squeeze a 6 in the 660. I have topped it out with my gearing at 125mph. It's making power just seems to like things it shouldn't. I do have some vids of it running after I hurt the turbo and I couldn't get it over 10-12psi you can hear she runs good but she doesn't even wake up until 20psi. Also Richard take a look at the world's fastest postie on TH-cam. They run a 125cc compound deal on a stock motor lol damn thing made 60whp more and it shreds gearboxes. I believe they run similar timing aswell as 45psi of boost. Iv tried taking the timing down to a more responsible number but it losses so much and egts get real high at rpm. Hopefully I can get some better videos up this week and some race video at the end of the month. My class doesn't care what fuel we use but I'm avoiding meth as long as I can e85 is just hard to find in NC. I'm Brazilian I love ethanol.
Gotta love big block displacement on a small block platform… ever do anything like that with a ford platform? Or any other manufacturer for that matter 🤷🏼♂️ would love to hear about them! Thanks for the great content Richard and keep it coming.
Oh I know you can get the cubes out of aftermarket blocks. Think the fellas down under have gone over 460 cubes with the Windsor platform. Just curious on Richards personal testing with them. Andy over at unity motor sports has a 429 (mixed up boss)Windsor project going on right now if you have the time to check into it.
Interesting build. I just feel like anything without 30lbs of boost isn’t cool lol 😂 I liked the weird “Amerinerra” thing and the Big Bang stuff. This is cool but it would be better with boost.
i would love to get ahold of this guy to build my next motor... i have a 408 Stroker in my 72 sky lark but for my next car i want something bigger like this.
That's cool! Usually big displacement are a little more sensitive to octane as far as I know Big block wise. Not at all an expert but I watch a lot of these tests. I bet the throttle response is heavenly and this one!
Rich, I must be one that thinks like you do... because I looked at this and started thinking "Do they make a blower that's big enough to support the desired boost levels I seek without being overworked? And how big do the injectors need be to supply E85 to it all?" =:D
I did a test on my car comparing 1 7/8" to 2" on the dyno using my 416. Only difference was in the overrev past peak HP. 2" had a gain of up to 8hp in the overrev.
Dynamic Compression Ratio is the key to running High Compression on pump gas. At 12.00-1 SCR I’d expect a relatively late closing intake valve timing @.050”ABDC +- 60-62*
@@richardholdener1727 The point is those “Softened” quench pads wasn’t the main contributor. DCR is a far more important factor in manipulation of compression for octane compatibility. if you disagree it shows your lack of knowledge of engine theory. JD
Hey Richard, Although Brian could archive 700 HP on cathedral port heads, it doesn't mean your way of thinking was wrong. He was still better off with a set of stock LS7 heads (flowing around 370cfm), so he could make even more power. I don't get why he went through all that trouble to choke the motor with less CFM flowing heads . Maybe smaller port ( 245 cc) to generate more low end power/ torque. Nevertheless , great test, something special I would say. thank you.
As long as the OEM LS7 heads don't drop a valve, and puke the engine. I have an LS7 in my C5. All 16 guides were junk in less than 20,000 miles. LS7 TYPE heads? Yes. Actual LS7 heads? NO!!!👎
@@richardholdener1727 I was wondering the same thing, didn’t realize this was over a decade ago. Im sure with some worked ls7 heads and msd intake it would make even more power right?
@@richardholdener1727 stock Ls7 would flow 370CFM @0.6" at intake site so more than 245cc cat head which did flow 353 cfm. For sure 245cc heads had a better flowing exhaust port. You are right on intake manifolds. He must have had a reason for his choice but stock ls7 can easily support 700 HP as long as flow is a concern.
Dude Richard, it's 2022 man! Sleeves are no longer needed to run that kind of stroke. You can put a 4.250" stroke crank in a 6.0L block. It is a little tricky so you have to have a good engine builder and the right piston design, but it can be done.
*Brian Tooley Racing valvetrain, including the ULTIMATE RPM LS SPRINGS and LS RETRO FIT ROCKER SHAFT MOUNTS occupy the stock 862 ported heads of the current World Record holding 8,600RPM turning 4.8L Stock Bottom End (OEM rods, pistons, crank, rod bolts) Record holder in 1/4, 1/8 and MPH car of Jack from Squirrel Tuned.* Although not required for the Record Race, he still runs hydraulic lifters (Johnson Short Travel) with beefy BTR pushrods. He feels that the magic to his entire setup are the Ultimate RPM BTR springs. 660ft 4.95 @ 140.8 mph, 1320ft 7.80 @ 168.1 mph. Estimated 2750lbs w/Driver @ calculated 1330 Crank HP.
@@Bacongrease00 yeah obviously efficiency is naturally highest in smaller engines, you could argue that those 10cc engines you get from hobby shops make far more HP/per L than a Honda NSX too lmao...
Thank you Richard for doing an in depth on this motor. I first saw your mentioning of this motor when i watched your video on the 700HP builds. You did not go too in depth with it back then. A few questions, shimming the factory lifters, is that Brian's way of making it a low lash or a solid roller setup without using the actual solid roller lifters? Why not use E85 and raise the compression just a little more to get even more power? Is it necessary to still soften the chambers if the motor will be running on E85? Do you think with the availabilities of so many aftermarket cathedral heads out there, if one follows the basic short block, a low lash or actual solid roller cam with similar spec and used either AFR, Mast or even Frankenstein cathedral heads, it is possible to make even more power without sacrificing the incredible amount of mid range torque Brian was able to make with his engine?
This engine was done 11-12 years, it is possible to make more power with different combinations of heads, cam and intake, the lifters were shimmed to effectively produce short-travel lifters-I doubt a solid roller is necessary in this rpm range
@@richardholdener1727 are there any pro or cons achieving this engine size using either 4.125 stroke with a bigger bore or 4.250 stroke and 4.125 bore? Can you school me on the advantage of short travel lifter?
Hey Richard I've recently acquired a 08 5.3 that came with the 243 heads however someone ripped off the 243's and left 706's as a replacement. My question to is since I'm only using this engine as a work truck it doesn't hurt my feelings to not have the 243's but out of all of you head test can you recommend a head that offer similar numbers as for a toque and compression as the 243/799 because the truck is a 4 wheel drive and if I should ever need to pull or tow I don't want to struggle. Thanks man and keep up the great work.
Hello, I always watch your videos, and I learn a lot from them. I have a stock 5.3 Lm7 engine and 862 heads with a 68 inlet and 90 outlet turbocharger, with a fitech injection system for 750hp with a 102 throttle. My question is what do you recommend for my configuration? , and also if you know the gap between the rings and the pistons, I understand that it is different when it is turbocharged for street use. Thanks for the help.
Ive heard that aluminum blocks are horrible for towing work. If you have a rolling chassis what would be the downside to using a aluminum block instead of a iron block?
Impressive to be using 91 or 93 octane at 12:1 compression! Love this big cubic inch LS content.. Very compact and light engine compared to BBC. How does a LS7 block stack up against an aftermarket Ali block, say the RHS? Would you choose one over the other, keeping in mind the tall deck option?
I just got done adding ring gap to my 22r in my sand/street rail. Its from a 1981 celica. Its bottom end is all stock, the head has some minor port work and Ive got either a k03 or a volvo td04 to boost it with. Im still looking for a offhauser 4 barrel intake manifold for it since ive got a blow through demon carb for it. My goal is 200+ft/lbs to the tires as early as 2500rpms. Should make my little 1300lb sand rail scoot. Even stock, it is a brute in such a light weight vehicle.
@@richardholdener1727 let’s see it!!! I just got a sleeved and stroked LS3 that is now a 454 and would like your combo ideas. I have cnc LS3 heads and it specs out to 12.5:1 compression.
Hey Richard! Got a question regarding my 454 LSX. I have a 2005 ctsv stuffed with a modified lsx 454 from Gm. This motor was originally built for nitrous, build list is below. Now my concern is this car made 500whp on a mustang dyno and 570whp on a dyno jet. I would like to make this an all motor build, and get rid of this low compression nitrous setup. What do you recommend? Considering this car can’t keep up with new full bolt on cars on motor something needs to be done. Thanks in advance! Currently on the motor: 454 Lsx Factory lsx 454 heads Diamond pistons (10.0:1 compression ) Scat rods Stock crank Clevite main,rod and cam bearings Manly hardened pushrods Arp bolts and studs for everything Cometic head gaskets Cammotion Custom ground Na/nitrous cam Summit racing trunnion upgrade Innovators west harmonic balancer Comp cams locking idler pulley Fast 102mm intake Nick Williams 102mm boost throttle body Fast fuel rails Fast 88lbs injectors Ls3 coils Holly valve covers Deatchwerks 310lph fuel pump Power master mini starter Kooks 1-7/8” to 3” headers
@@richardholdener1727 is the fast 102 intake okay for this build? I figured a cam would bring this motor back to life, and I’m having trouble choosing heads. But the real question is do I keep the compression the same and just get better heads? I figured to help this motor I would need to change the pistons and raise the compression to something similar like the motor in this video
Wow a 700 H.P running on pump gas. Could a similar pump gas engine be built from a 5.3 LS into a 383 stroker engine. If that is possible with turbos how close to 1000 H.P. on pump gas?
My question in all of this is how long is a motor like this with all these mods gonna last? Is that something that can live on the street say a 100grand? Fun for a street strip only? Or am I wrong? I'd like to do an all motor setup myself. But GM got motors at 17 plus grand. And then to get one built up like this costs how much? To go fast costs $$$.
Built right those kind of miles is not unrealistic, depends on rod/piston/ring package and if you laid it out properly for that kind of stroke, good hone job - just like every motor
@@richardholdener1727 I wanna see how much horse perrs and torque before the big bang I'm just asking cause I put one in a buggy and I wanna know how much power I can get out of it I know they only do 52 horse torques I know they like timing I could tell when I bump the timing up on it but it's just like anything else
Please explain a"soft chamber" I figured the only way you could run pump gas was to use an "intentional bleed cam" with an 11 to 1 piston. still don't understand how this was done. Was part of it because you only ran 29 degrees of timing?? or maybe the fuel injection had something to do with it?
One of the greatest technological advances we got from the 1st LS engine was a fast burn chamber (actually came from the gen 2 LT1 and L31 vortec). By softening the chamber, you effectively slow down the burn rate....making the LS more like and old SBC. The fast burn chamber is a lot of the reason why an LS makes best power @ 28-30° peak timing, and a SBC wants 34-38°.
Have some torque son. For real an NA engine that has that much torque. It’s much different than a turbo engine even with 50 or a little more power. When you open the throttle on an engine like that it really feels instant. The control is linear.
@@richardholdener1727 I`ve been at a little over 11:1 on pump gas but was under the impression that chamber softening was for nitrous applications only
I really wish that Chevrolet would actually maketrue, realBIB block LS 400, 427, 454, 455 engines. These would send other brands scurrying to their performance labs. I miss the real big block exhaust sounds. Imagine putting turbos on it lol
Just add to the excitement: Brian actually built this combination way back in 2010, back when L 92 heads were gaining popularity, but nobody knew how to properly cam them and time the valve events.
He was an absolute guru with cathedral port head architecture, and all of the strongest running LS engines were running TFS heads in the appropriate sizes.
He and I worked together on my 2005 GTO that I used to road race. I had some very specific goals in mind utilizing TFS235 heads with softened chambers so that I could run 12:1 SCR on pump gas.
With a medium cam and good drivability, the motor made 640 on the engine dyno, and 550 at the tires…through a built 6 speed manual in an IRS car. And this was in spite of the handicap of having only a 4.00 inch bore to work with.
The car went 10.90s at 128mph naturally aspirated back in 2013, when all the fastest street cars are running about 126-130 traps.
I’m genuinely proud of Brian for what he has accomplished with BTR, and I’m very fortunate that his knowledge, and my attention to detail, were able to make some fantastic power that surprised a lot of people. 🍻 ❤️
he is good people
Interesting build. A few years ago I was looking for a cathedral port head for my 402 build. BTR recommended the TFS 245 and Nick at BTR spec'd out a cam where I wanted it to peak at 6900 and be able to spray it hard. It made 649 hp on the pump and had a nice flat torque curve that was over 540 at 4k rpm. Very impressed with such a simple combo.
I have 245s on a 402 turbo
how much were those TFS heads back then when u built yours?
@@heat19721 3200 assembled with his nitrous exhaust port
N/A power with that tourqe curve, Love it💪. Thnx for your work Richard!
Your humility is refreshing.
That torque curve is just nuts, he built a winner there!
I love these where the motor by itself is pushed to the max - utilizing all the tricks. Also I think this shows that swirl, port velocity, correct sizing of the valves and other factors are much more important than just hogging out 'holes' to get power. Great under the curve power too.
That is one impressive torque curve! As I recall, the factory LSX454 was 750 hp, even more than the then-biggest 572 BBC. It was not, however, a street engine, probably would not run on pump gas…don’t remember. I guess Brian wanted to use those TFS 245s, but the GenX 255s or 260s would seem to be a better choice for power. Maybe not for that torque curve, though. I don’t want to second guess the man, i think he knows what he’s doing! Very interesting story, thanks Richard!
It’s was LSx454R with 13:1 and it hit over 750hp with a solid roller cam. I bought the crate LSx454 but been trying to figure which cam to use to make more than 627hp it’s at now
@@1967grimreaper What cam does it currently have in it?
Only way Id ever ls swap is to go straight for a 454
@@gordocarbo 648/648 on a 110. It’s a very “mild” cam for the for a crate engine. The engine hit 627hp/600ft tq w/carb and 585hp/600ft tq w/EFI.
When you gave the cam specs, the exhaust having 15° more duration than the intake sife didn't make sense to me...
Then you mentioned reducing the size of the exhaust valve and giving it a 50° valve job. Equilibrium restored.
My thoughts exactly.
Questioned why he didnt run to a solid roller....til I saw the chart, peak etc.
One of the best videos you have made. I appreciate that you publicly humble yourself and are not afraid to show that you are wrong but most importantly support it with data. Keep it going man. You made a die hard fan out of me.
Any one that can build something with power over such a wide rpm range, is clearly right on the money.
awesome Richard
If Richard says you can't do something, you probably can -- IF YOU'RE BRIAN TOOLEY. 😎👍
Guy must have been having some fun in his machine shop.
What a great build for a C5 Corvette doing track days in the heat.
And this was the engine I was planning on building, good to see the potential of it!
Awesome video Richard
I see that Brian massaged the pistons and of course heads and thermol barrier coated them, that seems to help stave detonation. Very nice engine.
softened chambers help a lot
Yeah that too but I can't do that at home
I actually built my own 427 version of this build nearly exact ( slightly different Cam Profile and Pistons) and can testify .....its an absolute beast on the Drag Strip in a HONEST 72 Rally Nova with old school Borg Warner 4speed complete with Mr.Gasket Vertical Gate new old stock shifter
....and one HELL OF A LOT OF FUN TO JUST DRIVE !
I actually run 2 fuel tanks in the trunk one that's chilled and is for racing and one for street driving. Helped me solve a couple of issues that I kept running up against. See I'm an old school Carb guy and drug my feet as hard and long as I could to avoid the obvious. I was in the middle of building a new 427 big block for my street car and got a chance to latch on to this engine for penny's really and started hitting salvage yards from Iowa to Idaho and gathered a fairly impressive bunch of parts and pieces in my quest for what I wanted.
P.S. .....The old school 1967 original GM 4 bolt 427 is still sitting on the Engine Stand in the Corner waiting quietly for me to finish it.....someday.
I like this build quite a bit. If I ever get into the position, I would love a build something like this for my grocery and chair hauler.
12 to 1 on pump gas is awesome.
My birthday is in April it would make a great birthday present for me to put in my 2004 Chevy 2500 HD my LQ4 is making a lot of noise in the valve train upon acceleration. ''LOL'' great work still loving your videos Richard
Richard your advice is solid, you just can't factor in Brian's wizardry when it comes to airflow. Now I need to learn what softened chambers are.
Brian has a much better touch on reality of engines than Richard does 😆 This engine and similar combinations has been done over and over by us in industry for last 15+ years
Softening chambers is process of taking the quench area (flat part) away to make it more hemispherical kinda so its not so timing sensitive, often in power adder scenarios
With 600 foot pounds or more of torque from 4100rpm to 6100rpm you better have a serious suspension setup that works well planting the rear tires on the street it would be a monster and dangerous in the wrong hands
To be honest with everyone i am not surprised by the H.P. numbers at all. My son made 525 rear wheel though a automatic over 10 years ago with a 346. That's close too 600 H.P. flywheel, and it was 12.1 to 1 run on 93 with a splash of 100 octane. Stock short block that had the pistons relieved for the valves. The part of Brians build that is impressive is the T.Q.
easier to hook, cheaper to build...better!
That is a thing of beauty. I want one in an RX-8. It would be stupid. Stupid fun.
THANK YOU, Thank you, for mentioning sleeve length!!! I wish more people would take that in consideration while figuring out their stroker combo!!
Peak power at 6300 - 6400 rpm. Its still very streetable! Healthy engine, but I wouldn't call it radical. Very solid build
Anything that has good power at 2000-5000 rpm is streetable, it's not the peak power rpm that makes it streetable. Unless you run peak power rpm on the streets all the time.
Well thank you Richard you might have just taught me what I did right in my turbo bike. Iv been running 14.5:1cr with 35psi @ 46°advance on 93. I do chill my fuel with dry ice over 25psi but I hadn't found one thing that was big enough on its own to help so much with detonation. Turns out I'm sure the stuff I did helped but something I did that I didn't realize had this benefit was soften the chamber. Duh lol I thought I was just deshrouding and while I was there I thought let's soften these edges itl help with heat. Just now did it hit me that that was probably a big piece to my puzzle. Thank you rich and ever try offset boring with logger rods? I know that's one thing I did that helped make things possible .
what engine needs 46 degrees of timing? at 14.5:1 comp and 25 psi?
@@richardholdener1727 it's an xr200 I have a few vids of it up making new ones as I get better at filming. Not much xr200 left inside it but the head and bore are still the same. So far it picks up power with it over less and stock is 42 from Honda. I'm on the 9th version of this motor so Iv broke stuff lol. And last pull was 36psi then the charge pipe blew off and she ate herself. Currently finishing the newest engine with a new oil system (more pressure and flow) and a new clutch I whipped up to use boost to assist the springs so she locks up faster. I race 660/330ft with it. You inspire me dude and you also re lit the flame that made me dig this project out from my HS days and get serious about it. Wish me luck hopefully we can get 50psi out of her later this week. Don't judge my fuel system too much lol it does work and so far iv kept it safe.
Do you have to run 93? Can you e85? I have to say those numbers are crazy town to me 46* 35on the gauge and 93? The freezing the fuel has to be doing something. 46 to me seems way out in front. Is turbo maxed out on the compressor side and you going for power with timing? I’ve heard of 32F charge air temps running 28* on 14 psi. This is interesting def checking it out
@@hondatech5000 yeah it seemed crazy to me too but I tare down to inspect pretty often and so far aside from pushing the wrist pin into the piston some it always comes out nice. I did indeed mean 46° advance. I run e85 when I can get it so normally pump gas. With dry ice I can get the fuel down to about -100°f give or take I see about 380 coming from the turbo and about 0-30°f across the carb on gas and about -40--20 on e85. Technically speaking I'm way past the compressor wheels range stock but I had this one made and I have no map for it. Was told by the guys that made it should be good for 50-60psi should know this week. I'm also hoping this newest wheel and a seriously cutback turbine wheel will have better iat. I do rev to 14000rpm most of the time although I have touched 17 before.but she's well rolled over by then. Currently the goal is 1/2hp per cc were 155cc and I'm hoping I can squeeze a 6 in the 660. I have topped it out with my gearing at 125mph. It's making power just seems to like things it shouldn't. I do have some vids of it running after I hurt the turbo and I couldn't get it over 10-12psi you can hear she runs good but she doesn't even wake up until 20psi. Also Richard take a look at the world's fastest postie on TH-cam. They run a 125cc compound deal on a stock motor lol damn thing made 60whp more and it shreds gearboxes. I believe they run similar timing aswell as 45psi of boost. Iv tried taking the timing down to a more responsible number but it losses so much and egts get real high at rpm. Hopefully I can get some better videos up this week and some race video at the end of the month. My class doesn't care what fuel we use but I'm avoiding meth as long as I can e85 is just hard to find in NC. I'm Brazilian I love ethanol.
Pretty simple build ! He knows more about engines than you will ever know Dyno queen
Who are you referring to?
Gotta love big block displacement on a small block platform… ever do anything like that with a ford platform? Or any other manufacturer for that matter 🤷🏼♂️ would love to hear about them! Thanks for the great content Richard and keep it coming.
I think you can do a 426 from a 351w.
If you buy a ford dart block that comes with a 4.125 bore I think you can build some pretty large displacement.
Oh I know you can get the cubes out of aftermarket blocks. Think the fellas down under have gone over 460 cubes with the Windsor platform. Just curious on Richards personal testing with them. Andy over at unity motor sports has a 429 (mixed up boss)Windsor project going on right now if you have the time to check into it.
@@Lagrange1186 Andy works very hard, I love the mixed up boss
I COVERED A STORY ON TOM BOGNER'S (FROM LUCAS OIL) 460 CID (351w) BASED FORD SMALL BLOCK
I have softened chambers on my PRC 260 heads on my 12.6:1 416. I'm sold on the process since I'm on 93 octane as well.
It does work well
Nice build… definitely would love to copy this build.
Liking this build a LOT!
Interesting build. I just feel like anything without 30lbs of boost isn’t cool lol 😂 I liked the weird “Amerinerra” thing and the Big Bang stuff. This is cool but it would be better with boost.
i would love to get ahold of this guy to build my next motor... i have a 408 Stroker in my 72 sky lark but for my next car i want something bigger like this.
Oh this is right up my alley !!!
That's cool! Usually big displacement are a little more sensitive to octane as far as I know Big block wise. Not at all an expert but I watch a lot of these tests. I bet the throttle response is heavenly and this one!
NOW THIS IS MORE LIKE IT! 😍 ❤️
Seems more like low dynamic compression ratio than "soft" chambers that let it run on 91.
Rich, I must be one that thinks like you do... because I looked at this and started thinking "Do they make a blower that's big enough to support the desired boost levels I seek without being overworked? And how big do the injectors need be to supply E85 to it all?" =:D
I did a test on my car comparing 1 7/8" to 2" on the dyno using my 416. Only difference was in the overrev past peak HP. 2" had a gain of up to 8hp in the overrev.
Dynamic Compression Ratio is the key to running High Compression on pump gas. At 12.00-1 SCR I’d expect a relatively late closing intake valve timing @.050”ABDC +- 60-62*
THERE IS MUCH MORE THAN JUST DYNAMIC COMPRESSION
@@richardholdener1727 The point is those “Softened” quench pads wasn’t the main contributor. DCR is a far more important factor in manipulation of compression for octane compatibility. if you disagree it shows your lack of knowledge of engine theory. JD
Hey Richard, Although Brian could archive 700 HP on cathedral port heads, it doesn't mean your way of thinking was wrong. He was still better off with a set of stock LS7 heads (flowing around 370cfm), so he could make even more power. I don't get why he went through all that trouble to choke the motor with less CFM flowing heads . Maybe smaller port ( 245 cc) to generate more low end power/ torque.
Nevertheless , great test, something special I would say. thank you.
As long as the OEM LS7 heads don't drop a valve, and puke the engine. I have an LS7 in my C5. All 16 guides were junk in less than 20,000 miles. LS7 TYPE heads? Yes. Actual LS7 heads? NO!!!👎
Velocity
THIS WAS ALSO WHEN INTAKES FOR THE LS7 WERE VERY LIMITED (BACK IN 2010)-NOT SURE A STOCK LS7 HEAD WOULD MAKE MORE THAN THESE
@@richardholdener1727 I was wondering the same thing, didn’t realize this was over a decade ago. Im sure with some worked ls7 heads and msd intake it would make even more power right?
@@richardholdener1727 stock Ls7 would flow 370CFM @0.6" at intake site so more than 245cc cat head which did flow 353 cfm.
For sure 245cc heads had a better flowing exhaust port. You are right on intake manifolds. He must have had a reason for his choice but stock ls7 can easily support 700 HP as long as flow is a concern.
The little funny noise added in was the cherry on top another great LS Power video. How many five-oh boys making 700/600+ NA all motor?
Dude Richard, it's 2022 man! Sleeves are no longer needed to run that kind of stroke. You can put a 4.250" stroke crank in a 6.0L block. It is a little tricky so you have to have a good engine builder and the right piston design, but it can be done.
DUDE-2022 DOESN'T CHANGE SLEEVE LENGTH
@@richardholdener1727 Sleeve length doesn't need to change dude. The design of the piston has changed though, which is what makes it possible.
Now if only it had boost to make it better!
Would love that see a little boost added to thos motor.
Mr. Holdener, what do you think this exact setup would make with rect port heads and 9:1 compression? Would the low end torque suffer?
would make much less and suffer down low
great video......love the sound that engine makes !!!!.......does he sell these?
IT WAS JUST HIS MOTOR
@@richardholdener1727 thanks again for sharing this...nice looking set up
So what the hell is a "softened chamber"? Don't think I've ever heard that term used.
*Brian Tooley Racing valvetrain, including the ULTIMATE RPM LS SPRINGS and LS RETRO FIT ROCKER SHAFT MOUNTS occupy the stock 862 ported heads of the current World Record holding 8,600RPM turning 4.8L Stock Bottom End (OEM rods, pistons, crank, rod bolts) Record holder in 1/4, 1/8 and MPH car of Jack from Squirrel Tuned.* Although not required for the Record Race, he still runs hydraulic lifters (Johnson Short Travel) with beefy BTR pushrods. He feels that the magic to his entire setup are the Ultimate RPM BTR springs. 660ft 4.95 @ 140.8 mph, 1320ft 7.80 @ 168.1 mph. Estimated 2750lbs w/Driver @ calculated 1330 Crank HP.
yes 2'' or 2.1/8 will boost the hp and torque for sure
Is a guy here in Aus running 6s @200mph with cathedral heads. They work well.
Wow, that worked out great. Is piston speed a concern with this much stroke??? As are the pistons custom made
they were just forged pistons-don't worry about piston speed
What would make this better? Boost! 😀
BTR made 94 hp/L @ 6400 rpm on pump gasoline and that is well within "You can not do that" territory for almost all of us. :)
What’s cool is that Honda already did that 25 years ago on pump gas. Actually 100hp/liter.
@@Bacongrease00 yeah obviously efficiency is naturally highest in smaller engines, you could argue that those 10cc engines you get from hobby shops make far more HP/per L than a Honda NSX too lmao...
Thank you Richard for doing an in depth on this motor. I first saw your mentioning of this motor when i watched your video on the 700HP builds. You did not go too in depth with it back then.
A few questions, shimming the factory lifters, is that Brian's way of making it a low lash or a solid roller setup without using the actual solid roller lifters? Why not use E85 and raise the compression just a little more to get even more power? Is it necessary to still soften the chambers if the motor will be running on E85? Do you think with the availabilities of so many aftermarket cathedral heads out there, if one follows the basic short block, a low lash or actual solid roller cam with similar spec and used either AFR, Mast or even Frankenstein cathedral heads, it is possible to make even more power without sacrificing the incredible amount of mid range torque Brian was able to make with his engine?
This engine was done 11-12 years, it is possible to make more power with different combinations of heads, cam and intake, the lifters were shimmed to effectively produce short-travel lifters-I doubt a solid roller is necessary in this rpm range
@@richardholdener1727 are there any pro or cons achieving this engine size using either 4.125 stroke with a bigger bore or 4.250 stroke and 4.125 bore? Can you school me on the advantage of short travel lifter?
Would race fuel or e85 allow for more power considering the compression? Or is this maxed out?
WOULD BE INTERESTING TO TRY ON E85
@@richardholdener1727 Yeah, Science Rocks!!!
Could you do a vid on combustion chamber modfications? I would like to know more about "softening" the chamber.
I SHOULD
Nice Richard! I wonder what the cranking compression is? Gotta be over 200.
High Compression NA Build? 7500+. Hyd or SR is fine
Would love to see some builds
Hey Richard I've recently acquired a 08 5.3 that came with the 243 heads however someone ripped off the 243's and left 706's as a replacement. My question to is since I'm only using this engine as a work truck it doesn't hurt my feelings to not have the 243's but out of all of you head test can you recommend a head that offer similar numbers as for a toque and compression as the 243/799 because the truck is a 4 wheel drive and if I should ever need to pull or tow I don't want to struggle. Thanks man and keep up the great work.
the 706 will work fine
Thanks buddy
Hello, I always watch your videos, and I learn a lot from them. I have a stock 5.3 Lm7 engine and 862 heads with a 68 inlet and 90 outlet turbocharger, with a fitech injection system for 750hp with a 102 throttle. My question is what do you recommend for my configuration? , and also if you know the gap between the rings and the pistons, I understand that it is different when it is turbocharged for street use. Thanks for the help.
SET RING GAP AT .028-USE A GT45 TURBO FOR 700-750 HP
Ive heard that aluminum blocks are horrible for towing work. If you have a rolling chassis what would be the downside to using a aluminum block instead of a iron block?
there is no downside
What the cost for a build like this? 25K.
don t listen rick ,,,,,LOLLL...,,BUT I WILL ALWAYS LISTEN TO RICK dam love so mutch your vidéo sir tank s so mutch MERCI BEAUCOUP
listen to Brian
So would a lsx 454 with a cam upgrade be better?
that engine is in my blazer now 😂
Can you do some videos on the l8t 6.6
Impressive to be using 91 or 93 octane at 12:1 compression!
Love this big cubic inch LS content.. Very compact and light engine compared to BBC.
How does a LS7 block stack up against an aftermarket Ali block, say the RHS? Would you choose one over the other, keeping in mind the tall deck option?
not at this displacement-I use an RHS tall deck for my 495 inch stroker
Rhs block is chinesium. Hope yall got better luck than I had. Mine was DOA! Mast, chad golen, and many others have had enough of rhs too
Hey man, I wanted to hear a Dyno pull!
I would love to see some more 4-cyl and 6-cyl content. Ford 300, 20r/22r, ford 2.3(ranger), and maybe even the ford 400, all with boost.
I just got done adding ring gap to my 22r in my sand/street rail. Its from a 1981 celica. Its bottom end is all stock, the head has some minor port work and Ive got either a k03 or a volvo td04 to boost it with. Im still looking for a offhauser 4 barrel intake manifold for it since ive got a blow through demon carb for it. My goal is 200+ft/lbs to the tires as early as 2500rpms. Should make my little 1300lb sand rail scoot. Even stock, it is a brute in such a light weight vehicle.
2900 vortex has same adapter plate as the 4200 could see some atlas 4 cly testing… cheap engine
Richard will you do a LS stroker build like 427 or 454 for us thanks again
I JUST POSTED THIS-BUT I DID DO A 468 AND 495
@@richardholdener1727 let’s see it!!! I just got a sleeved and stroked LS3 that is now a 454 and would like your combo ideas. I have cnc LS3 heads and it specs out to 12.5:1 compression.
Hey Richard! Got a question regarding my 454 LSX. I have a 2005 ctsv stuffed with a modified lsx 454 from Gm. This motor was originally built for nitrous, build list is below. Now my concern is this car made 500whp on a mustang dyno and 570whp on a dyno jet. I would like to make this an all motor build, and get rid of this low compression nitrous setup. What do you recommend? Considering this car can’t keep up with new full bolt on cars on motor something needs to be done. Thanks in advance!
Currently on the motor:
454 Lsx
Factory lsx 454 heads
Diamond pistons (10.0:1 compression )
Scat rods
Stock crank
Clevite main,rod and cam bearings
Manly hardened pushrods
Arp bolts and studs for everything
Cometic head gaskets
Cammotion Custom ground Na/nitrous cam
Summit racing trunnion upgrade
Innovators west harmonic balancer
Comp cams locking idler pulley
Fast 102mm intake
Nick Williams 102mm boost throttle body
Fast fuel rails
Fast 88lbs injectors
Ls3 coils
Holly valve covers
Deatchwerks 310lph fuel pump
Power master mini starter
Kooks 1-7/8” to 3” headers
Complains about low compression
Me: laughed in 7.8 to one
you have the displacement-you now need the right heads, cam and intake
@@richardholdener1727 is the fast 102 intake okay for this build? I figured a cam would bring this motor back to life, and I’m having trouble choosing heads. But the real question is do I keep the compression the same and just get better heads? I figured to help this motor I would need to change the pistons and raise the compression to something similar like the motor in this video
Wow a 700 H.P running on pump gas. Could a similar pump gas engine be built from a 5.3 LS into a 383 stroker engine. If that is possible with turbos how close to 1000 H.P. on pump gas?
maybe
Wow...never say never
My question in all of this is how long is a motor like this with all these mods gonna last? Is that something that can live on the street say a 100grand? Fun for a street strip only? Or am I wrong? I'd like to do an all motor setup myself. But GM got motors at 17 plus grand. And then to get one built up like this costs how much? To go fast costs $$$.
Built right those kind of miles is not unrealistic, depends on rod/piston/ring package and if you laid it out properly for that kind of stroke, good hone job - just like every motor
Hi Richard if you have a moment can you please comment on this combinations rod to stroke ratio just your thoughts thank you.
ROD TO STROKE IS NOT A MAJOR CONSIDERATION
I'm curious what the reliability on that is with all of the custom build
drove around in a street Corvette for a long time
Hi I haven't seen a ford sho 3.0 liter or any ford v6 but you did a gmc one 🤔
I DO LIKE THE SHO MOTORS
A I still wanna see you do a big bang on a geo metro 3 cylinder 1.0l engine cause I wanna see how much horse torques it'll make
I have a 1.0L, 3-cyl Sprint Turbo motor
@@richardholdener1727 I wanna see how much horse perrs and torque before the big bang I'm just asking cause I put one in a buggy and I wanna know how much power I can get out of it I know they only do 52 horse torques I know they like timing I could tell when I bump the timing up on it but it's just like anything else
Great content.
Damn. With cat heads too !
That would be Just Right for my Tahoe! :-)
I thought the same thing
lesson here is tell brian tooley it cant be done
Please explain a"soft chamber" I figured the only way you could run pump gas was to use an "intentional bleed cam" with an 11 to 1 piston. still don't understand how this was done. Was part of it because you only ran 29 degrees of timing?? or maybe the fuel injection had something to do with it?
SOFTEN CHAMBER, CAM TIMING, ALUM HEADS,
"Softening" the chambers is a process to reduce the quench area. = less volitile and more controllable combution events.
Search softened chambers on TH-cam and MBE has a great video explaining the process. I'm sold on it.
One of the greatest technological advances we got from the 1st LS engine was a fast burn chamber (actually came from the gen 2 LT1 and L31 vortec). By softening the chamber, you effectively slow down the burn rate....making the LS more like and old SBC. The fast burn chamber is a lot of the reason why an LS makes best power @ 28-30° peak timing, and a SBC wants 34-38°.
@@kevinengland4042 So a soft chamber is just a smaller chamber? Why is it called softening?
But Richard, why, when a junkyard 5.3 with a turbo would make the same/more power for cheap. :)
YOU GET TO CHOOSE WHAT YOU WANT
Have some torque son. For real an NA engine that has that much torque. It’s much different than a turbo engine even with 50 or a little more power. When you open the throttle on an engine like that it really feels instant. The control is linear.
Let me ask a stupid question: how do you get away with 12:1 compression on 91-93 octane? Does it have something to do with swirl?
cam timing, alum heads, softening the chambers, tune
@@richardholdener1727 I`ve been at a little over 11:1 on pump gas but was under the impression that chamber softening was for nitrous applications only
Why Cathederal port heads? Pros and Cons?
pro-704 hp, con-not 705 hp
the hell with hp, torque is what can make things happened
Could you boost something like this for truck guys that want that big torque number. Or would it be worth it?
IT DOESN'T NEED BOOST
Is it safe to assume that a novice like myself could achieve 600 hp on 91 using an 11:1 Texas Speed 421?
I think so, I have a 11.0 370 on pump with stock valve 706 heads and making over 500 easy, trapped 105 with stock Ls1 now trapping 122 plus
WITH THE RIGHT HEADS AND CAM AND INTAKE
@@richardholdener1727 Thank you for your time and the reply.
What was the idle speed and quality on this setup?
IT IDLED AND DROVE IN THE VETTE
I really wish that Chevrolet would actually maketrue, realBIB block LS 400, 427, 454, 455 engines. These would send other brands scurrying to their performance labs. I miss the real big block exhaust sounds. Imagine putting turbos on it lol
They do the lsx 454 crate engine from the chevy website. 7.4 stock displacement and can go up to 500+ci.
Emissions and fuel economy standards say: No.
How much a motor like that cost
Nice
Do they use the bbc 454 block for the ls 454 motor?
NO-THAT IS A DIFFERENT ENGINE FAMILY
How much boost would it take to match the output with a 6.0 and price difference ?
less than 10 psi on a cammed 6.0l
@@richardholdener1727 Wow and a lot cheaper no doubt. Taking nothing away from the N/A build it's impressive. Thanks for the reply.
I like this..........a LOT! lol