Nice smart guy. I never try to "rip" a submission in class. Better to lose it than hurt someone. I am also playing with not taking the sub to the point of a tap before letting go so that the roll can continue. Tapping tends to break the flow especially if the guy feels pain and it breaks his concentration.
Ed McGuigan I'd caution you and say this isn't potentially a very nice thing to do to your sparring partner, though it depends a lot on preference. The reason I say this is because submissions usually come from dominant positions like mount, side ctrl or the back. If you sub them then everything resets and you lose your dominant position in the process. However if you keep letting go of the sub even when you have it pretty much locked in then you are a lot of the time going to retain that dominant position. I know I'd hate it if a heavy guy mounted me, I couldn't escape and then they just kept that mount the whole time going for mounted chokes or armlocks. Now of course I could tap at any point just so that we can reset and he'll therefore lose mount. But tapping when you're not in a submission can be embarrassing for some students and can put them in an awkward position. I'm not saying don't let go of subs before the tap, just be mindful of this.
Anything you don't train is dangerous because you don't understand it. I'm finding this with takedowns in Jiu Jitsu; Wrestling and Judo takedowns. Seen a lot of people not roll or break (ukemi) properly and get hurt. They didn't even know it was time and that they had been "gotten" with the takedown. When you don't train it you can get injured. Train it just to be safe to the technique coming at you.
Totally agree. I've seen so many videos of bjj guys give away good grips or just generally put themselves in bad positions with no expectation of being thrown, because they fundamentally don't understand the mechanics of the techniques. Equally I started training a bit of bjj lately (I'm a judo guy) and I gave up so many leg-locks it was embarrassing. Thankfully everyone was going super slow and I'm not too proud to tap as soon as anyone gets remotely near to locking in a heel hook haha
The only thing I'm really not convinced is accurate is the statement that a heel hook will cause the ankle to pop first. It may happen that way for some, but for most I think it's going to target the knee ligaments with minimal pressure on the ankle. Maybe for someone on the taller side the proper leg control might create more pressure on the ankle first, but for someone who's shorter than their opponent or the same height, it's likely to just go straight to the knee ligaments. The other thing that they're kinda glossing over is that the knee doesn't have pain receptors the way that the elbow, wrist or ankle do. There is the sensation of pressure and then when the range of motion is at its max, it pops ligaments. That said, I'm a big fan of leg locks and heel hooks. I think it's perfectly viable for grappling tournaments, especially at more advanced levels, at that point it's expected that your opponent knows how to defend and is responsible to tap when they're in a submission, same as any other sub. Not sure why there's so much hate for leglocks in general. Like anything, train at it and stop complaining about it. Leglocks are one of the higher percentage finishes at ADCC in large part because of how effective they are.
Not to be controversial, but the armbar will injure the elbow which seems to heal up a lot better and faster than the knee. I know that's not really the point, but ... it's true and is the main reason why so many other grappling sports don't allow knee reaping.
I agree, any move is dangerous the first time someone is exposed to it. ankle locks are no more dangerous than kimura or arm bars. I hurt my shoulder when I first started years ago by not tapping until too late , I learned. Training is just that. training! tap early, tap often. I will say that in the last 10 years the refinement of leg locks has opened a whole new world.
Heel hooks should be legal for Brown and Black belts, they are a part of the art and we all should learn, use and handle them. They are so dangerous because too many peoples don't train the defense enough. I am not a pull guard guy (i really dislike it) but heel hooks are awesome
***** Yep. I've been to those schools. I remember about 12 years ago as a new blue belt coming to a school and tapping all the purples with leg locks. Pissed off the instructor so bad but its his fault. At purple belt level your leg lock defense should be as on point as your arm bar or americana defense.
dragonballjiujitsu They're literally complaining about it because it "too effective" like bitch that's the whole fucking point and would boxers complain that a technique is "too effective" same thing for MMA guys, if these people continue to complain Jiu Jitsu will end up like karate where 12 year olds are black belts, Stop fucking complaining and start learning
the top comment is right heel hooks should not be bad you should educate yourself at the party Jiu-Jitsu I'm a blue belt and I just started doing it looks professionally I wouldn't say that they're good but I'm starting now so later in my game it'll be good like Eddie Cummings good seriously bro
i consider myself a purple belt at leg locks specially with heel hooks, you have to know when you are in danger simple as that, they are dangerous to those that don't know the difference.
I agree with knowledge of the game is essential, but I think it's important to note here that Eddie Cummings' knees are pretty much wrecked at this point, to the point that he has trouble getting out of bed in the morning. Or so I read in an interview with him.
Ive been doing bjj for about a month and I think attacks on the neck are more dangerous than leg locks. Attacks like the twister or any neck crank I personally think are a lot more dangerous than hurting your knee, ankle etc. today at my nogi session I actually got my first heel hook submission with my partner during a roll and he was fine after and went right back into it and got him in a rolling toe hold from his open guard 😂 as long as you or ur opponent taps and if you aren’t a GRR JITSU type of guy then leg locks shouldn’t be dangerous at all. I am not saying people won’t get hurt. Every submission can be very dangerous and people forget that. I tend to find it’s those who hardly train or never been in a leg lock etc. OSS.
I don't know about that, I got heel hooked the other day and I was fine rolling right after, but when the adrenaline wore off I was limping. And I tapped as soon as I could. It's probably better not to crank heel hooks in training, just catch them.
I'm not sure the long term effects of taking a pop.... oh man... to be young again. Every one of those is coming back for you at some point after that 3 is the first digit of your age. Tap... you got caught. It's not worth it.
Every cpl years we get one of these heel hook guys, Ryan Hall, Palharas, Cummings, Tonon. These moves are too dangerous I think, ppl who only look for heel hooks should be allowed to get punched in the face during the roll.
they're very effective, but also very cheap and the risk of long term injury isn't worth it just for a tap in a sportive setting, Now if its mma or street then yeah by all means its time to rip some knees apart but in a bjj tourney its a bit much imo.
totally agree. I've competed in mma and bjj tourneys as well and heel hooks should always be trained if for nothing else to at least know the defense for them. Just guys like Cummings and Bodycomb and Palharas always rub me the wrong way for some reason but I'm sure at least Cummings and Bodycomb are decent guys. But I guess as long as you know what you're getting into before hand then its not a huge problem.
They're the easiest to catch and cause the most damage ,= cheap, only an idiot equates all bjj moves as the same, a heel hook that tears ur leg apart n less than a second is much much different than ne other bjj move, stop being ignorant
Ah my knees are tingling
Nice smart guy. I never try to "rip" a submission in class. Better to lose it than hurt someone. I am also playing with not taking the sub to the point of a tap before letting go so that the roll can continue. Tapping tends to break the flow especially if the guy feels pain and it breaks his concentration.
Ed McGuigan I'd caution you and say this isn't potentially a very nice thing to do to your sparring partner, though it depends a lot on preference. The reason I say this is because submissions usually come from dominant positions like mount, side ctrl or the back. If you sub them then everything resets and you lose your dominant position in the process. However if you keep letting go of the sub even when you have it pretty much locked in then you are a lot of the time going to retain that dominant position. I know I'd hate it if a heavy guy mounted me, I couldn't escape and then they just kept that mount the whole time going for mounted chokes or armlocks. Now of course I could tap at any point just so that we can reset and he'll therefore lose mount. But tapping when you're not in a submission can be embarrassing for some students and can put them in an awkward position.
I'm not saying don't let go of subs before the tap, just be mindful of this.
Anything you don't train is dangerous because you don't understand it.
I'm finding this with takedowns in Jiu Jitsu; Wrestling and Judo takedowns.
Seen a lot of people not roll or break (ukemi) properly and get hurt. They didn't even know it was time and that they had been "gotten" with the takedown.
When you don't train it you can get injured. Train it just to be safe to the technique coming at you.
Totally agree. I've seen so many videos of bjj guys give away good grips or just generally put themselves in bad positions with no expectation of being thrown, because they fundamentally don't understand the mechanics of the techniques. Equally I started training a bit of bjj lately (I'm a judo guy) and I gave up so many leg-locks it was embarrassing. Thankfully everyone was going super slow and I'm not too proud to tap as soon as anyone gets remotely near to locking in a heel hook haha
The only thing I'm really not convinced is accurate is the statement that a heel hook will cause the ankle to pop first. It may happen that way for some, but for most I think it's going to target the knee ligaments with minimal pressure on the ankle. Maybe for someone on the taller side the proper leg control might create more pressure on the ankle first, but for someone who's shorter than their opponent or the same height, it's likely to just go straight to the knee ligaments.
The other thing that they're kinda glossing over is that the knee doesn't have pain receptors the way that the elbow, wrist or ankle do. There is the sensation of pressure and then when the range of motion is at its max, it pops ligaments.
That said, I'm a big fan of leg locks and heel hooks. I think it's perfectly viable for grappling tournaments, especially at more advanced levels, at that point it's expected that your opponent knows how to defend and is responsible to tap when they're in a submission, same as any other sub.
Not sure why there's so much hate for leglocks in general. Like anything, train at it and stop complaining about it. Leglocks are one of the higher percentage finishes at ADCC in large part because of how effective they are.
Not to be controversial, but the armbar will injure the elbow which seems to heal up a lot better and faster than the knee. I know that's not really the point, but ... it's true and is the main reason why so many other grappling sports don't allow knee reaping.
I agree, any move is dangerous the first time someone is exposed to it. ankle locks are no more dangerous than kimura or arm bars. I hurt my shoulder when I first started years ago by not tapping until too late , I learned. Training is just that. training! tap early, tap often. I will say that in the last 10 years the refinement of leg locks has opened a whole new world.
Heel hooks should be legal for Brown and Black belts, they are a part of the art and we all should learn, use and handle them. They are so dangerous because too many peoples don't train the defense enough. I am not a pull guard guy (i really dislike it) but heel hooks are awesome
Michele Cipriani Well, it's very acute. They are like wrist locks. There's not a lot of distance to the point of pain.
Every class has "that guy" who tries to hurt his opponent every roll, they angry guy.
Every class also has an INSTRUCTOR who should be in charge and should not let that happen.
LMAO just because you cannot defend against them, or know when to tap, doesn't mean heel hooks should be banned. Educate yourself.
+Sean Cain exactly! Only jackasses who are too lazy to learn to defend them are scared of them and want them banned.
***** Yep. I've been to those schools. I remember about 12 years ago as a new blue belt coming to a school and tapping all the purples with leg locks. Pissed off the instructor so bad but its his fault. At purple belt level your leg lock defense should be as on point as your arm bar or americana defense.
Learn how to defend them or get the fuck off the mats. Stop crying about getting caught in something you don't want to train.
dragonballjiujitsu They're literally complaining about it because it "too effective" like bitch that's the whole fucking point and would boxers complain that a technique is "too effective" same thing for MMA guys, if these people continue to complain Jiu Jitsu will end up like karate where 12 year olds are black belts, Stop fucking complaining and start learning
Noldyn Vigstersktorng I could not agree more!
Short answer : Yes
Long answer : Fuck yes.
The mythical creature Eddie Cummings
the top comment is right heel hooks should not be bad you should educate yourself at the party Jiu-Jitsu I'm a blue belt and I just started doing it looks professionally I wouldn't say that they're good but I'm starting now so later in my game it'll be good like Eddie Cummings good seriously bro
Great video
i consider myself a purple belt at leg locks specially with heel hooks, you have to know when you are in danger simple as that, they are dangerous to those that don't know the difference.
I agree with knowledge of the game is essential, but I think it's important to note here that Eddie Cummings' knees are pretty much wrecked at this point, to the point that he has trouble getting out of bed in the morning. Or so I read in an interview with him.
Ive been doing bjj for about a month and I think attacks on the neck are more dangerous than leg locks. Attacks like the twister or any neck crank I personally think are a lot more dangerous than hurting your knee, ankle etc. today at my nogi session I actually got my first heel hook submission with my partner during a roll and he was fine after and went right back into it and got him in a rolling toe hold from his open guard 😂 as long as you or ur opponent taps and if you aren’t a GRR JITSU type of guy then leg locks shouldn’t be dangerous at all. I am not saying people won’t get hurt. Every submission can be very dangerous and people forget that. I tend to find it’s those who hardly train or never been in a leg lock etc. OSS.
I don't know about that, I got heel hooked the other day and I was fine rolling right after, but when the adrenaline wore off I was limping. And I tapped as soon as I could. It's probably better not to crank heel hooks in training, just catch them.
the smurf Agreed I will usually tap as soon as one catches my heel.
I'm not sure the long term effects of taking a pop.... oh man... to be young again. Every one of those is coming back for you at some point after that 3 is the first digit of your age. Tap... you got caught. It's not worth it.
Heel hooks aren't dangerous, not training heel hooks is dangerous.
Selfish man
Every cpl years we get one of these heel hook guys, Ryan Hall, Palharas, Cummings, Tonon. These moves are too dangerous I think, ppl who only look for heel hooks should be allowed to get punched in the face during the roll.
they're very effective, but also very cheap and the risk of long term injury isn't worth it just for a tap in a sportive setting, Now if its mma or street then yeah by all means its time to rip some knees apart but in a bjj tourney its a bit much imo.
totally agree. I've competed in mma and bjj tourneys as well and heel hooks should always be trained if for nothing else to at least know the defense for them. Just guys like Cummings and Bodycomb and Palharas always rub me the wrong way for some reason but I'm sure at least Cummings and Bodycomb are decent guys. But I guess as long as you know what you're getting into before hand then its not a huge problem.
I have knowledge of heel hooks, cheap meaning they're always available, u know what I mean
They're the easiest to catch and cause the most damage ,= cheap, only an idiot equates all bjj moves as the same, a heel hook that tears ur leg apart n less than a second is much much different than ne other bjj move, stop being ignorant