I dont know but I do read the scriptures, two in the field, one will be taken, and, pray that you are worthy to escape all the things to come and stand before the son of man, I will lift him up on the last day . how many in the Bible were taken without death? . I only know that Jesus is King ❤
I had no opinion on the rapture until I had a dream out of the blue which depicted the rapture in almost 3D reality. I had absolutely zero suggestion or prior input into my sub conscious to create this dream, I had almost backslidden to a degree and wasn't engaging in any sort of conversation or watching anything Christian. It came totally out of left field. It was so powerful that it got me out of a sinful relationship and back on track with God.
Read 1 Thessolonians 4. The dead shall rise first then we alive will go next and meet the Lord in the air. Not on earth...that would be the second coming in which we come with Christ on horses in our glorified bodies. So we all are raptured...even the dead. No get outta jail card for them. You will be apologizing for your disgusting unbiblical interpretation. Many will be saved during the tribulation. Many will be persecuted and beheaded before the rapture. Until then I suggest you quit your cruel unknowledgable statements. You better study your Bible. The rapture theology is not only 200yr doctrine. It is the doctrine of the early church and Paul.
Dont be so quick to assume who will fall away in your opinion, many people who believe in a harpazo, also prep and are willing to go through much for their faith, you make them out to be shallow wimps, and you are judging them, we take every thought captive for a reason as well as not judge others for a reason made clear in the bible. They pray for the people who are suffering for their faith and more. The falling away is already happening now, from what I can see. From family to so many people right now. 🙏🤍
@@carinarigas947 I agree with you 100%. If ever there was a time, it is now, to come together as believers and lift each other up in love and agree to disagree. Here’s an example….how many of your here took the shot? Wore the masks and were obedient to your so called goverment? I was not. There will be no falling away for me IF I’m wrong about the rapture. Off my head will go! But I’ll be with the Savior and that is all that matters to me. In the meantime, you can NOT prep enough for what is coming. The only prepping you can do if you don’t believe in a rapture, is to fill yourself with the Word of God every day. Until He comes or takes me home, here in the cross of Christ I stand!! God bless you all!
Very true. I couldn't agree more that the falling away is happening now. I don't know why I hear all the time that pre-tribbers will fall away and take the mark. It actually doesn't make sense to me. I tell mid and post tribbers and those who don't believe in a rapture, that very soon they will be pleasantly surprised. Maranatha!
I wanna prep however my wife does not.We are both Christians but I believe in a pre wrath Rapture and she believes in a pre tribulation Rapture. I feel her believe has her believing she has to do nothing before Jesus returns
That is the main thing. I see so many that their hope is in the rapture. If you take away the rapture, you take all their hope away. It is scary, and those are the ones I fear for. The ones that think there is a rapture, but really don't care when, they are prepared, and their hope is in the right place.
I love this and your passion about it! That has ALWAYS been my stance as well, and I'm amazed how attacked I am when I try to voice it? I pray that people get to the point, that no matter how long or hard it is, "to LIVE IS CHRIST and TO DIE IS GAIN so LET'S DO THIS"! Bless you guys, and thanks for this tonight!
Several things: You said you don’t condemn the pre-trib rapture believers but you call the doctrine a “doctrine of demons” and say 99.97% of them are merely concerned with carnal living? That’s a lie.. straight up and a false generalization.. you can’t make such a statement, you’d have to have perfect knowledge of all believers!!! That’s a demonic deception. Period. Question: do you think that EVERY believer lived a life of suffering and persecution? Did those past believers who lived “ quiet and peaceable” lives due to the good fortune of their time and placement on earth, not go to heaven because they didn’t suffer terribly??? According to you - no! And 1 Thess 5 DOES NOT DESCRIBE JUST THE RESSURRECTION.. a resurrection is from death and the scripture clearly states those “ those who are ALIVE and remain will be caught up” The acrimony always comes from the post trib and rapture deniers. And you assume you know the hearts of the pre-tribbers.. such arrogance.. that they will turn against God when suffering happens And you repeat the provable lie that it is a new doctrine.. even though early church fathers taught it And you don’t believe in the covenant promises made to a specific people group- the Jews.. REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY is the demonic doctrine that you’re believing -not the rapture From a man who has suffered for Christ.. in my own time and place..a missionary to drug addicts for 14 years , working with out pay..and also studied the scriptures like you all it’s very evident that you do not take the scriptures IN CONTEXT I’m preparing to meet Jesus not to endure “ a time like none other in history”.. while you’re prepping for the Wrath of God on an unbelieving world.. you don’t even understand the purpose of the Tribulation I wish I could have been on that video.. and been given a chance to refute your bombastic claims! There is so much more I can say.. but I’ll leave it to this.. Jesus is coming for his BRIDE.. the bride is part of the body but it is not the body! You may have to endure the Tribulation because that is your great desire.. I’ll leave you with Jesus words..” according to your faith be it unto you”
There is only one resurrection according to John 5, Acts 24, and Daniel 12. One resurrection of the righteous and of the unrighteous. Revelation 20 says blessed is he that takes part in the first resurrection. This happens at the end of the tribulation once. That's when all believers receive a new glorified body. Those who were dead in Christ come back to meet those who are alive and remain for the resurrection of the righteous. This one time event has to happen at the end for everyone to be included. God Bless
@ the first resurrection is the resurrection of the righteous.. the first resurrection began with Christ and had many OT saints.. so I can prove there are at least 2 resurrection occurrences in the 1st resurrection .. there is another resurrection of the condemned at the great white throne judgement..Enoch and Elijah were raptured..so its truth was already shown..you need to read ALL OF DANIEL 12.. he is speaking of Daniel’s people.. The Jews..read 12:1 before you make a doctrine of 12:2.. and that is always the case with the post tribbers.. they read Matt 24 and apply it out of context.. but if you want to go through the wrath of God and the wrath of the Lamb..let it be done according to your faith.. this won’t be like anything the devil or the world has ever brought onto the earth.. even worse than the flood God bless
wow. all this anger.... and self-righteousness. If I were not already a devout follower of Jesus, this comment would easily have been a turn off from Christianity
Very well said! A lot of the confusion i believe comes from the idea that the First and Second Resurrections are events in time, when they are better understood as categories. You want to be in the First Resurrection category! This also helps contextualize the resurrections of OT saints that happened in Matthew 27:52.
Lol just entering into your comment. I noticed you gave absolutely no scriptures in your rebuke. And I think I heard you correctly?? You said you are pretrib midtrib or prewrath??? And you felt disrespected as if you found out you were incorrect and it was posttrib that you could certainly endure and wouldn't take the mark of the beast and if you had to you too would accept martyrdom very bravely.??? I am very well versed in all the false definitions of the false pretrib midtrib and prewrath rapture doctrines of demons. Unlike JW I have confronted my friends to get in the scriptures with prayer to explain the importance of true doctrine. Needless to say , I have no friends left!! Dear fellow believer in Jesus. Do you have children?? I do!! Have you contemplated having to be forced to watch them starve or be tortured for non compliance to the mark of the beast system? ?? If you are incorrect?? The war against the saints in rev13 specifically says the antichrist overcomes them 2 ways to overcome 1. Submit and fall away from the faith or 2. Suffer and be martyred. If you would actually read these few scriptures in prayer you might see the truth! 1. 1thess4: 13-17 notice the resurrection of the dead righteous happens FIRST BEFORE the catching up or rapture. 2. Rev20: 4-6 tells us the FIRST resurrection of the dead righteous includes martyrs of the tribulation refusing the mark of the beast. 3. If the resurrection of the dead righteous is posttrib and 1thess4: 13-17 says its before the rapture then the rapture is also posttrib. 4. How many resurrections are there?? Daniel 12: 2 only 2 resurrections one for the dead righteous into eternal life and the other is the condemned to eternal contempt. 5. Compare to Rev20: 4-15 only 2 resurrections. The FIRST resurrection is the righteous into eternal life and the 2nd resurrection is the condemned to eternal contempt ( lake of fire). If you can't accept these verses I have many more. Please don't reply with weak statements without scripture??? Its disingenuous!!
AmenAMEN!!!!! So tired of hearing my pastor talk and encourage so many about,” we’re getting raptured out of here “ just as bad as asking to tithe every weekend!! We as true Christians know that GOD expects this but that’s between us and HIM. Hence why last weekend was my last Sunday at the church I’ve been going to for almost 6 years. I was raised Catholic (demonic) and thankfully became CHRISTIAN 3/4 years ago. Scales are off!!! And TO JESUS ALL THE GLORY!!!!
@@Kim-js8jfQUESTION I read Rev 19: 6,7,8 it says the Bride aka the church is in heaven preparing to return with Christ for the millennial reign , how and when did the church get there before the second coming
@@heknows5418 Read Enoch chapter one, now read Psalm 37: 9-12, 34-36, Psalm 91:7-8, Matthew 13:40-43, Proverbs 10: 30, John 17:15, Zephaniah 2: 3 Isaiah 26: 20 -21. KJV It's the wicked and Godless ( Tares ) and everything that offends that is removed from the earth. The righteous remain. Jesus is coming back to the earth to reign. Shepherds Chapel teaches chapter by chapter and verse by verse KJV Bible. Eagle wings ministries and shepherds student also play shepherds chapel videos.❤️ God bless you with all truth.
Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. So what about this? What does this mean to you? Sounds like the rapture. Why would some be left if it's the absolute end?
It IS the pre-Tribulation rapture as well as Matthew 25:1-13. After the rapture, when the Antichrist signs the seven years peace treaty, the day count starts and then they will know the exact day of Christ's 2nd Coming. Too bad these guys are not understanding the difference between the church age saints and the Tribulation saints. Maranatha.
Read the book of Revelations. Read John 6:40…..the Rapture happens on the Last Day. The dead in Christ shall arise first. We are the Saints. The Church is made up of Saints. I’m not Catholic 😂. I’m a Christian that can read the Bible and understand it. If Jesus takes the Tares first and harvests the wheat last, who do you say Jesus says he’s going to harvest first. 🤷♂️ That is the complete opposite of the pre tribulation Bible. I’m glad to know both of you fine gentleman are the final authority on the Bible and what the Lord says. 😊. And you dared use the word narcissistic with me…….🤪
IN THE 1800'S A ROTHCHILD AND A FEW OTHER MEN DECIDED TO HAVE THE CHURCH TEACH PRE TRIB AND IT EXPLODED. i used to beleive in pre trib up until the 80's. I heard a pastor read scriptures and then, i was confused. I cried out to God to know the truth and He led to His word. I was teaching my small children and wanted the truth. Holy Spirit showed me, sent strangers who too, found the truth. He gave me His peace and never doubted or any confusion. I am still thankful that I was able to show my children the Truth with the WORD !!!!! GOD BLESS YOU GUYS FOR TELLING IT LIKE IT IS !!!!! TRUTH SOMETIMES HURTS, GOTTA GET RID OF PRIDE TO RECIEVE IT ! I HAD TO !
Where do people get this stuff? The early church fathers taught a pre-trib as well as the Essenes did before Christ. The tribe is the time of JACOBS TROUBLE. Not the church. The Essenes that became followers of Christ (there were more than one sect of them so don't lump them together) knew there would be 2000 years of the times of the Gentiles, then the gentile church would be removed before Daniels 70th week which would bring in the remnant of Israel before the final 1000 year reign of Messiah. It has NOTHING to do with Darby or M Macdonald except that Darby found it in the ancient writings and THEN began to revive it. It was buried by the Catholic church and other preterists centuries earlier.
Howdy yall: I'm 63 now & was raised (Independent Baptist). I just learned this year about Scofield/Darby backgrounds and it left me w great pause. I have the same questions that both you Bro Chris & Bro Jamie have discussed here. I have a question. Where does 1 Thessalonians 4 & 5 fit into the scheme of things? Personally, I agree that we as The Beloved should prepare for the worst and hope for the best. I have tasted and have seen that the Lord is good. (Better than good, actually) And yes, whatever the case may be, I pray for God to give me the things I need to stand in a day where persecution may knock on my door. Even if I may have to die for Christ, I'm good w that. That's a win in my book. I can only speak for those who live in the USA. Somewhere along the line, professing Christians have turned into literal pansies. The least little thing goes wrong in their lives and they immediately get an attitude with God. (In time past I have been guilty of the same) When I was growing up in the 60's70's, we used to sing songs about being soldiers for Christ. It has been decades since I have heard anyone even suggest such things as growing and maturing in the faith and to stand up for Christ. I hear of so many who live in other countries that have and are enduring great persecution for bearing the name of Christ. They are an inspiration to me and I would that I too were faced w such circumstances that I too would stand srong regardless. As for my question, I welcome anyone's input on my question.
Dear fellow believer in Jesus. I see your sincerity. May attempt to point somethings out about your question?? I'm going to proceed as If you are very familiar with these passages of scripture. Ok?? 1. The dead disembodied souls of the righteous comes with Jesus as He descends. 2. Joel2: 1. Blow the trumpet 11. The Lord utters his voice, he has an army and his camp is very great(lots of persons) Jude1: 14,15. The Lord comes with his saints. 3. Jesus is bringing the dead righteous disembodied souls, Jesus shouts??angles are present we hear the voice of angels!! The trumpet is blown. These all relate to the passages in old testament prophecies of the day of the Lord. 4. Next we see that the dead righteous disembodied souls are resurrected first. 5. Description of this is 1cor15: 51,52 in a split second the corrupted bodies of dust and ash are changed to incorruptible. At this moment the dead righteous disembodied souls are connected with their glorified bodies and have become eternally resurrected. They are still with Jesus as He is descending this happens in a moment of the twinkling of an eye. 6. Comparative scriptures isaiah26:19 from the dust Daniel 12:2 the resurrection of the righteous into eternal life Rev20: 4-6 the FIRST resurrection of the dead righteous includes martyrs of the tribulation refusing the mark of the beast making the resurrection posttrib. 7. Next is the catching up or rapture. This happens a split second after the resurrection and the living righteous are gathered together with Jesus and the resurrected dead. 8. The description in 1cor15: 51,52 claims the mortal ( living) physical bodies are changed and this mortal must put on immortality!! The glorified bodies are harpazo ( snatched ) so quickly. Comparative scripture matt24: 29-31 the angels gather together all the righteous to Jesus. Conclusion of these scriptures 1thess4: 13-17. Jesus returns resurrects the dead and catches up or raptures the living. Joel's description says the DAY OF THE LORD. Posttrib. Now to several scriptures of 1thess5: 1-6, 9. Starts off with the day of the Lord comes as a thief 1. Comparative scriptures 2peter3:10 the Day of the Lord comes as a thief Rev16: 15 after the 6th bowl Jesus interjects saying " behold I come as a thief ..." implying the day of the Lord is after the 6th bowl Matt24: 42-44 reference to coming as a theif. 2. Yes as a thief BUT NOT TO THE living believers ??? What do the living believers know??? Not the day or hour!!! Matt24: 36!! 3. Investigation about what the living believers know about the day of the Lord?? 4. 2thess2: 1-8 the DAY OF THE LORD will not come until after the revealing of antichrist. 5. Daniel 9:27 the prince that will come and cause the abomination of desolation thus revealing that he is antichrist. 6. Matt24: 15 Jesus points out that the abomination of desolation is seen , this is the revealing of antichrist and the matt24:21 there comes the great tribulation 7. Rev13 we know that when the beast comes into power ( revealing of antichrist) he is given 42 months. 8. Daniel 12:11 after the abomination of desolation there is 1290 days until the end. 42 months 1290 days same time period. Conclusion;; when the living believers see the revealing of antichrist they don't know the day or hour of the 2nd coming but they know the time period!! Last 1thess5: 9 not appointed to wrath but to obtain salvation. This promise is for every generation of the righteous, not just the last. John 3: 16 The eternal life is the salvation The perishing is the wrath described in rev.20: 14, 15. Grace peace and blessings!
@SuzanneRaski dear fellow believer. Unfortunately this argument doesn't help the false pretribbers or midtrib and prewrathers because of the false definition that Jesus returns 2 times once for pretrib and a 2nd time posttrib. Here's what may help. 1. Matt24: 36, 42-44 the pretribbers believe that the rapture is a secret and that Jesus comes as a thief. Which is partially true. 2. 2peter3: 10 the day of the Lord comes as a thief. 3. 1thess5: 1-6 the DAY of the Lord comes as a thief... 4. 2thess2: 1-8 Jesus returns and gathers together all the righteous called the day of the Lord and will not come until after the revealing of antichrist. 5. Rev16: 15 after the 6th bowl Jesus interjects saying" behold I come as a thief..." after the 6th bowl while the 7th trumpet is sounding (last trumpet) rev10:7 in the DAYS of tge sounding of the 7th angel?? This shows the 7th trumpet sounds for DAYS. This connects the DAY of the Lord and comes as a thief to POSTTRIB. where there are living believers 1thess5: 1-6. Just saying!
Now research Iraneus, Ephraim of Syria and Polycarp. All believed in the doctrine of Rapture (Harpazo) the catching away. By the way they were all first century Fathers in the early Church. Polycarp studied under the Apostle John.
Might I remind you that God took Noah away from the flood in a boat, and Lot was removed from the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. Those were Biblical examples of the rapture to come as, you see, they were taken away from the final destruction. God expects us, as Christians, to give up our lives for Him. Most Christians live carnal lives.Those are the Christians who will go through the "Great Tribulation" period. All of us go through daily tribulation...
Those are examples of how God keeps us while on earth, amidst the destruction. Another is in Rev 12:6 when some of God's people fled to the wilderness to a place God had prepared to be taken care of.
@SuzanneRaski If we look at this in a spiritual sense, Paul was right, and that is true. Water does symbolize purification, but also destruction as, for example, I cited, in Noah's day. Fire also represents purification.The prophet Malachi uses the analogy of a refiners fire to describe how God purifies our hearts, lt does, also, in the Book of Revelation. Lot and his family were saved from the fire, not destroyed by it. In both of their physical situations, as i pointed out, each was extracted from a fatal destruction.
@SuzanneRaski Indubitably, we have, and do, live in troubling times. Tribulation follows us, generation after generation. As to your point, however, I was not saying that we, as 'faithful' Christians, would suffer in the "Great Tribulation" period. I was simply trying to point out that, like the "rich young ruler" who didn't want to give up his riches for 'mental' salvation (Matthew 19:16-23), that that is what a carnal minded man is like; (he is a man dominated by selfishness, he is self-willed, self-focused and self-seeking). See, we don't have to 'physically' give up our extravagant lifestyle (in fact, we need believers in all walks of life), but we do 'mentally'. God doesn't want our minds dwelling on our worldly goods, but antithetically, on Him. These people honor Jesus with their lips, but their hearts are far away from Him. Countless souls who believe they are saved haven't truly surrendered to God. They have religion, but no relationship. Indubitably, we are indeed toppling the scales toward, as some have claimed, by entering the "Great Tribulation" period. I don't believe we have quite done so yet, because as it states in II Thessalonians 2 that 'after' the 'rapture', the Anti-christ will be revealed. (Still, the world is indeed seeing precarious times, and I feel this man will be revealed very soon. [And the American president, to be, claims "peace and safety," but, for now, I will say no more, that is another subject]). However, my eyes and my mind are focused on Christ. And like the diciples, I gave up my riches and followed Christ. In conclusion, I'd like to briefly relate to all people, saved or unsaved, please surrend your life to Christ... This is imperative; here's why... You see, I have heard Jesus' voice audibly five times in five word sentences and have had two visions. In the first vision, Jesus came to me (the surrounding was magnificent) and said, "You've always been with me."The first of five, five word sentence. It was the second vision I'd like to speak the most about. It was horrifying. Let me explain. I had seen Jesus in all of his splendor, but I hadn't seen the Devil, Lucifer yet. So I said so to Jesus, "I have seen you, but I haven't seen him, I need to see Satan. That night, in fierce opposition to the first vision of Christ, this one started as a black spot in a white background. The atmosphere was pure evil, I felt absolutely no good in it, just evil. As the dot grew, it formed the most detestable creature I had ever seen. It stopped inches from my face and said, "I want to eat your face off." [Seeing me would explain that statement, lol.) Anyway, I awoke from that one with my arms crossed screaming, "Save me, Father!" Now, I don't scare easily, I have been through a lot, but that night, I awoke in fear and panic. I was truly frightened. Now you may dismiss this as 'hogwash', but I have spoken the truth. We should speak about what Jesus said to me...
I agree. I see the field white unto harvest now and yet the reapers are few. I cannot shake the feeling that there is not much time left and there is so much to do.
Titus 2: 13. The purpose of the Tribulation is for the salvation of the Jewish Nation. That’s why it’s called Jacob’s Trouble. You can stay here if you want like I’m the bride of Christ and my bridegroom will not beat me nor any other fellow believers. We’re not appointed unto to God’s/ Yahweh’s Wrath even though we have tribulations on this earth not Great Tribulation.
I watched this video twice, so that I won’t be talking without understanding, I agree with pre tribulations rapture , but I am not 100% really on that and not prepared for worse . I believe whenever will be the rapture or our Redemption, to stay on the narrow path and looking up is crucial ! Yet brother Jamie did not make any sense on speaking against ppl who believe in rapture. At least I didn’t not quite get you by saying where is such and such’s rapture, so and so’s rapture ? Rapture is not promised every time ppl have sacrificial death! We know multitudes of ppl who sacrificed their life for the Sake of Gospel from the time of the apostles all the way to this day! Why would they have rapture before the appointed time comes , which is “like a thief in the night“ . That day supposed to happen in the future not in the past . All of the saints you have mentioned will rise from the dead before the ones still living change in the blink of an eye to our glorified body. I know one thing, that soon my Lord will come to take his bride home! 🙏🏽
Wow! Thank you so much for your perspective. I appreciate your honesty. That was allot to swallow but I know I saw this for a purpose. I had a strange dream and I think that you pretty much nailed it to help me gain more wisdom and seek more through scripture. I’m going through my Bible a third time just to recall exactly what it says again and seek the kingdom of God.
John 6 speaks 4 times that he ( the saints) will be raised on the last day which will be at the last trump. There is no pre tribulation rapture. Matthew 24:29-31 discussing immediately after tribulation he will gather his elect at the last trump. There are many verses that talk about the saints being overcome in Revelation as well
You guys are on the right track. How about checking out these questions? Has anyone ever tested Paul to see if he is an approved Apostle? It seems everyone is relying on his epistles being in the canon since the mid 300’s. Can there be a 13th apostle who never was taught by Jesus, didn’t learn anything from the 12 apostles hand picked by Jesus, brings a MYSTERY gospel that was not spoken of by Jesus on earth? Matt 19:23, Rev 21:14, Gal 1:12,16, Gal 2:6-9, Acts 22:18 We are required to test doctrines, teachers, prophets, or spirits. Deuteronomy 13 is called the Punishment of Apostates passage. Does God test us with false prophets? How do we show we love God in Deut 13? Do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits - 1 John 4:1 The Bereans were more noble.. Searching the scriptures whether those things were so (right after Paul arrives) - Acts 17:11 All Asia turned against Paul. Ephesians rejected Paul. Rev 2:2 Jesus commends Ephesus for rejecting a false apostle and found them liars. Jesus could not contradict the Old Testament. Any teacher after Jesus must be consistent with Jesus. They must also not contradict themselves. John 5:46-47 Matt 5:17 1 John 4:2-3 antichrist denies that Jesus came in the flesh. 1 John 2:18-22 antichrist denies the father and the son (deny can mean contradict). Paul says “in the appearance of a man”. There must be two or three witnesses to a matter. Can Paul be his only witness? Deut 19:15 In Matthew 24 Jesus says do not be deceived. Do not believe the one who says they meet Jesus in the wilderness (road to Damascus?) or in an inner room (jail cell?). All eyes will see Jesus when he returns. Can Jesus pop in and out visiting any person in private? Matt 24 - as lightning goes from east to west, so shall be the coming of the Son of Man. What does being a wolf in sheep’s clothing mean? It means that someone can speak sheep words (truth) but also speak as a wolf (lies). We have to discern if someone is a wolf by looking for their words that contradict Jesus. Beware of RAVENING wolves - Matthew 7. Benjamin is a RAVENING wolf - Gen 49. Who is from the tribe of Benjamin? Benjamin kills in the morning and divides the spoils in the evening. Who murdered Christians at first, then converts but never joins with the Jerusalem church and starts his own churches? The Bible says the 12 apostles are the foundations but Paul says he builds on no one else’s foundation. Should a teacher like Paul quote Jesus a lot? Should we be wary of someone who is a Pharisee? Beware the leaven of the Pharisees and Herod Mark 8:15; Matt 6:6,12. Who was of the family of Herod? The leaven of the Pharisees is hypocrisy (deceit, acting: Jew to the Jew, Greek to the Greeks). Who claimed he used deceit to spread HIS gospel? 2 Cor 12:16 What are the qualifications of an apostle in the one example we have? Acts 1:21-22: been with the apostles from John’s baptism until the ascension. At Peter’s denial he was asked three questions: 1) were you with Jesus? 2)were you with his disciples? 3) are you a Gaililean? How would Paul answer those? Can someone who says they have a demon of Satan in them also have the Holy Spirit? Do you know that Luther and Carlstadt turned against Paul and faith alone? Right after Jesus’s ascension a group called the poor, Ebionites, rejected Paul. Every so often from then on people and scholars have found some odd things about Paul where he contradicts Jesus. Deuteronomy 18 speaks of a prophet like Moses whom God will speak through. This is Jesus. In Numbers 12 Aaron and Miriam challenge Moses’s authority because they had dreams and visions. God says those are inferior to him speaking face to face with Moses. God speaks through Jesus. I would say that is the highest form of communication. Who is this self proclaimed Apostle who says he has a vision, goes to the 3rd heaven but can’t tell us the unutterable words he may or may not have heard???
This was so well said! Thank you brothers. This pre trib rapture and rapture arguement that seems to be taking over everywhere is tiring to constantly hear because it does seem that people who beleive in pre trib are all about self preservation and i dont prescribe to that thinking as a christian. I too also beleive that because of the pre trib rapture believers that when they are still here when they beleive they shouldnt be and that God should have taken them is where the falling away will come in and it will be once again for self preservation
Jesus said if you try to save your life you will lose it but if you give your life to him, die to self, you will save your life. I can't get through Jeremy Riddle's song Jesus Have It All without crying ♥️
When Moses sent Caleb and Joshua to spy out the Land, many of the people that went with them came back with an ill report of the sons of the Nephilim Inhabiting this Land, it caused great division in the camp. Only Joshua and Caleb said our God is mighty, he will deliver us from these, they had a deep abiding faith that they would be delivered, no doubt whatsoever. The other saw with their physical eyes, and believed and lost faith. God promised that those who had no faith in his great salvation would not see the promised Land.
I was taught this day one of being saved…and believed it to my core. Until 2021…I watched a video about it being a demonic teaching- usually I would of turned it off and not listen to such garbage-but I continued to watch until the end- and was shaken to my core. I prayed that Jesus would confirm one way or the other, I was pretty shaken up about it. Jesus is faithful and has brought me undeniable confirmation …and this is yet another confirmation. Thank You
Don't be afraid to share the truth with him because you're afraid you might offend them because if they hear you they can be saved . And if they don't hear you they could be saved in the millennium because we're going to be teaching them and preaching them for a thousand years
It breaks my heart that so many people are deceived especially my fellow Americans no body else other than people of western culture believe in a pre trib rapture.
I feel the same way. The Lord showed me years ago that there is no pre trib rapture and told me to tell others because a falling away is coming and people believe they will be out of here before they face any tribulation. Breaks my heart and the weight of it weighs heavy on my spirit.
Вы ошибаетесь :) Миллионы людей по всему миру верят в доскорбное восхищение церкви, в то, что Отец небесный не оставит нас на земле на время Своего гнева! Мы готовим наши сердца уже несколько лет, потому что ничто нечистое не может войти в Царство Небесное! Очень много каналов на Ютуб-бе англоязычных, русскоязычных и других, где мы молимся друг за друга и ободряем каждый день. Можете сами проверить :) Ищите Господа всем сердцем - Он достоин всей славы, любви и поклонения....
Exactly. A series called revelation the end of days had the scenario where the children disappeared first. Then later on some of the adults disappeared. So out of sorts. Thank you for speaking about the subject. Health and prosperity to you and your family.
I want to suggest that the rapture cannot happen before the Ekklesia has taken the gospel to the nations, as taught by the Lord in Matthew 24:14, Mark 13:10, Luke 21:24. This would be in fulfilment of the Great Commission-Matthew 28:18-20, in the building of Christ’s Ekklesia, comprising born again Jews and born again Gentiles-Matthew 16:18. I believe the progress of the gospel can be determined by the Bible being translated into the native languages of all the nations. This is how the gospel started on the Day of Pentecost, when the people heard the Word of God in their own languages-Acts 2:8. This has certainly been the case since the Reformation. To date, there remains about 20 percent of Bible translations to complete the work. And with the use of computer technology and AI, the work of Bible translation would surely be speeded up!Marantha.
@@enigmainwater2493 it's about getting the TRUTH of this important matter to God's children so they know how things are going down. So people don't worship AC( false Jesus) when he comes FIRST to decieve the world with all signs and lying wonders. Don't worry about Christopher, and if he makes money or not. That's not your concern. Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling and leave the judging to God.
I totally agree! 👍🏼 Thank you! I used to be pretrib but after listening to a TH-camr on it and studying it further, it hit me. And I knew without a doubt that we would all go through the tribulation. You guys are saying what I’ve been saying for years now.
The church is not mentioned after Revelation 4. The 7 year tribulation period is to deal with Israel. The Pre-tribulation Rapture scriptures 1 Corinthians 15:50-52 1 Thessalonians 4:15-18 Luke 17:26-36 Rapture in the Greek is harpazo. Rapture in the Latin Bible is Rapturo. Jesus comes in the air and comes at the second coming. Two different events. These two are very angry and deceived.
So true! They base the rapture foundation on the fact that there is no mention of "The Church" after Revelation 4! How beguiled do you have to be Jesus was crystal clear, "those who endure to THE END will be Saved"
YOU GUYS MAY HAVE IT WRONG AND OF COURSE NOONE WANTS TO GO THROUGH THE TRIB IIF THEY DONT HAVE TO AND WHO WOULD WANT TO, no one BUT IF WE HAVE TO, we WILL. I BELIEVE THE BIBLE AND ITS IN THE BIBLE
It matters how, either way? Let's not let our adversary drive a wedge between us over when/how we go! Pursue relationship with Jesus Christ. Period. Would our Blessed Savior like for His bride to bicker over the end, or encourage, admonish, and fellowship throughout the day to day? Maybe someone can explain to me what difference it makes when the tribulation is? Maybe this conversation is more for the very financially secure, with more time and fewer concerns in their today life...
Saints are not destined for God's wrath, which takes place during the Great Tribulation. Those who choose to follow Messiah during this tribulation are called saints as well. You two men are stuck and do not understand that context is king when it comes to the Scriptures.
The Great Tribulation is not part of God's wrath or it'd be called the Great Wrath. I pray that you'll figure out the difference between the 7 seals, and read about them, compared to the 7 bowl JUDGEMENTS.
“Likewise the chief priests also mocking with the scribes, the Pharisees, and the elders, said, “He saved others, but he can’t save himself. If he is the King of Israel, let him come down from the cross now, and we will believe in him. He trusts in God. Let God deliver him now, if he wants him; for he said, ‘I am the Son of God.’” The robbers also who were crucified with him cast on him the same reproach. Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land until the ninth hour. About the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lima sabachthani?” That is, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” Matthew 27:41-46 Yeshua mocks his scoffers in that last statement. As they don’t realize the Fathers wrath or the great tribulation only falls on disobedient sons. The cross is about Christ setting up his Melchizedek tent by which the righteous run in and are saved. But disobedient sons fail to guard themselves against the leaven of the herodian’s that Christ warned against. Therefore, they perceive God’s wrath as an opportunity to be a hero. Unaware that they will receive the Father’s behind whipping like a champ until they repent. You can receive the water baptism of repentance prior to the great tribulation, which is our Father’s verbal warning/priestly purification Or be baptized by fire in the great tribulation or hour of testing. Like Namaan, the mighty man who was humbled of his heroism, being instructed to wash 7 times in the Jordan River. Take your pick children of God.
I have found that the people that believe in the rapture before tribulation will argue black and blue that they are 💯 right and that there is no other way. It's really sad that they believe this,they have no back up plan,it's the rapture or nothing. It truly baffles me and I feel for these people. May God show them the truth and guide them to it. God bless you all brothers and sisters. God bless 🙌 🙏 ❤️
GOD IS GOING TO SAVE THE CHURCH AND SPANK THE WORLD FOR 7 YEARS TITUS 2 13 COLOSSIANS 3;4 HEBREWS 12 22 REVELATION 5 9 HABAKKUK 2 1;3 LIKE 21:34-36 JOHN 14 1-3 ENJOY GODS WORD IT NEVER CHANGES ONLY BECOMES FULFILL
@SuzanneRaski sorry have you considered the different between Matthew 24:27 & Matthew 24:30 to different events also Revelation 5:9 the church ( believers) watch Jesus open the seals on a 7 year time of Jacob's trouble
**Scripture never says he comes twice as far as the rapture and then at the millennial reign. 1 Thessalonians 4:17 "Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air". Jesus is only in the air to meet us and never arrives on earth for the rapture. So Jesus only comes back to earth again 7 yrs after the rapture to set his feet on the mount of olives. Pre-trib 🙌🙌🙌🙌
Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, “Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?” - 1 Corinthians 15:51-55
Deception is freaking rampant. So much has come to light in the past four years. So thankful and extremely grateful that God allowed the scales to fall from my eyes. Humbled to the core and totally changed. I mean, changed. I think you all should have a debriefing for recovering evanjellies & Baptists! 😂😊✨🧂✨
lol evanjellies, now thats a good one. Truth is it is a terrible situation to be in, but it is a very apt way to put it. And yes, the deception(s) are highly sophisticated now in 2024 and getting worse. Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
All we need to understand rapture doctrine is the word of God. He only returns once. It is him second coming. All those that endure to the end will be caught up with him upon his return....you will be here. You will have to endure. Or, perhaps your heart will fail you for fear of what is seen coming on the face of the earth. However, you should take great comfort in Jesus Christ if you have called on him for what he has done knowing this, that your already dead in Christ, and he is the one who defeated death and rose up again. If you belong to him, you have nothing to fear of man, and should fear God only through great love and honor and trembling.
simple example , in multiple books of the Bible shows that Messiah Jesus confirms the covenant , but because many preachers say that the AC confirms the covenant , people believe the false narrative just because it is preachers saying it.
There is no scripture anywhere that says the AC confirms it , it is how Dan 9 :27 has been twisted , so we ask what is the covenant about that this AC is to confirm ?, again the false narrative is fallacy saying it is about a peace treaty , but there is no scripture at all about a peace treaty , it does not exist , so they twist scripture about when Paul says when they say peace and security sudden destruction comes
There is no scripture anywhere that says the AC confirms it , it is how Dan 9 :27 has been twisted , so we ask what is the covenant about that this AC is to confirm ?, again the false narrative is fallacy saying it is about a peace treaty , but there is no scripture at all about a peace treaty , it does not exist , so they twist scripture about when Paul says when they say peace and security sudden destruction comes
Our studies have shown that Christ only returns once. I’ll break it down for you. TOOO MANY FOLKS HAVE learned the Bible narrative by listening to false TH-cam teaches. Learn this stuff YOURSELF by reading the Bible with the Holy Spirit. Study yourself to be approved. If you simply read the Bible yourself you’ll come to the exact same conclusion of the truth as I have. Reference this so you fully understand, because the pre trib rapture narrative is demonic deception intended to cause the falling away of the church. So when what they think is a promise from the Lord doesn’t happen, they abandon their faith and take the mark of the beast. The Devil is very very clever. Remember he steels, kills and destroys. Scripture does not contradict itself. Ever. The Pre-Tribulation Rapture view teaches that believers will be taken to heaven before the tribulation begins. Below are the key scriptures often cited to support this view, along with counterpoints that prove this interpretation is deception. 1. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 “For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.” Pre-Trib View: This event is seen as a distinct “rapture,” where believers meet Christ in the air before the tribulation begins. Rebuttal: • The text does not explicitly place this event before the tribulation. • Instead, it aligns with the Second Coming, where Christ gathers all believers at the end of the age. • Matthew 24:31 similarly describes angels gathering the elect “with a loud trumpet call” after the tribulation, suggesting a post-tribulation event. 2. 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 “Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed-in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.” Pre-Trib View: This “last trumpet” is interpreted as the rapture trumpet, separate from the final trumpet in Revelation. Rebuttal: • The term “last trumpet” implies finality, consistent with the seventh trumpet in Revelation (Revelation 11:15), which signals Christ’s kingdom and judgment. • This event coincides with the resurrection and Second Coming, not a secret, pre-tribulation rapture. 3. Revelation 3:10 “Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.” Pre-Trib View: “Keep you from the hour of trial” means believers will be taken out of the world before the tribulation. Rebuttal: • The phrase “keep you from” (Greek: tereo ek) can also mean protection through the trial, not necessarily removal. • Examples: In John 17:15, Jesus prays for believers to be kept from the evil one, while remaining in the world. 4. John 14:2-3 “My Father’s house has many rooms…I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.” Pre-Trib View: Jesus is preparing a heavenly place for believers and will take them there during the rapture. Rebuttal: • This passage emphasizes Christ’s return but does not specify a timeline or pre-tribulation removal. • The “coming back” could refer to the Second Coming, where believers join Him permanently. 5. Titus 2:13 “While we wait for the blessed hope-the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.” Pre-Trib View: The “blessed hope” is the pre-tribulation rapture, providing comfort to believers. Rebuttal: • The “blessed hope” is Christ’s ultimate return, which includes the resurrection and eternal reign. • No clear distinction is made between rapture and Second Coming here. Rebutting the Pre-Tribulation View with Scriptural Evidence 1. The Parable of the Wheat and the Tares (Matthew 13:24-30, 36-43) Jesus explains that both the righteous (wheat) and the wicked (tares) grow together until the harvest, which represents the end of the age. Key Rebuttal: • Verse 30: “Let both grow together until the harvest.” • The separation happens at the end, with no prior removal of the righteous. The wicked are dealt with first, and the righteous are gathered afterward-aligning with a single Second Coming, not a pre-tribulation rapture. 2. Matthew 24:29-31 “Immediately after the distress of those days…the Son of Man will appear in the sky…and he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds.” Key Rebuttal: • The gathering of the elect happens after the tribulation, clearly indicating that believers endure through tribulation before being gathered by Christ. 3. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 “Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him…that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed.” Key Rebuttal: • Paul emphasizes that the gathering (often equated with the rapture) will not happen until after the appearance of the antichrist. • This directly contradicts the notion of a pre-tribulation rapture. 4. Revelation 20:4-5 “They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.)” Key Rebuttal: • The resurrection of the righteous occurs after the tribulation, corresponding with Christ’s Second Coming. • There is no indication of an earlier resurrection or rapture event. 5. John 6:39-40 “And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.” Key Rebuttal: • Jesus consistently refers to the “last day” as the time of resurrection, indicating a single event for all believers, not a pre-tribulation rapture. Conclusion: The Pre-Tribulation Rapture relies on assumptions and interpretations that isolate certain verses from their broader context. However, a holistic reading of scripture supports a single event at the end of the age, where Christ returns to gather His people and execute judgment, as described in the Parable of the Wheat and the Tares and other passages. Believers are called to endure through tribulation, awaiting the glorious Second Coming of Christ.
Thank you for the truth, I believed in the pretribulation for so long because of fear, my husband told me the truth and we have gone around and around, maybe it was because I have been through so much pain in this life, I was blind to the fact that I have to persevere through all of it, to the very end.
I hope and pray my brothers and sister have a solid enough relationship with the One True Living God that even if they are off in this doctrine they will adjust quickly and move fast and forward with the Lord as we are His bride and He will not forsake any of us. Sorry not trying to condemn Gods people to hell because their beliefs are a little wonky. Gods greater then their disbelief. Thank God His ways are so greater then yours or mine thinking!
Rapture and Resurrection are similar sounding words in english. Similar concepts, broadly speaking. Have similar descriptions. There are various places through out the Bible that have some of these same dynamics. Sometimes it is 2 events separated by a single detail. The Rapture is not necessarily a resurrection. Those raptured maybe taken in spirit only. It is possible they are resurrected later. For 1800 years the Jews have been exiled from Israel. Due to the leaders only expecting the Messiah coming one time and only to fight their physical enemies. All the verses that talked about the suffering servant were ignored or assumed to be someone else. Noah was removed from the Judgement. Lot was taken out of the Judgement of Sodom and Gomorrah. Moses and the Jewish people where told what to do. To protect themselves from the Judgement of the first born, of the final plague. Revelation 7: 9-14 especially verse 14. They are take out of or away from the Great Tribulation. Isaiah 26: 19-21 verse 19 is a rapture / resurrection event. Verse 20 is similar to Revelation 6: 9-11 and Revelation 7: 9-14. Meanwhile verse 21 seems to be the 2-3 bowl Judgements of Revelation 16: 3-7. The word used for rapture also has precedence for people being removed. Acts 8: 39 During which Phillip is taken away by the Holy Spirit. Precedence should also be considered from the examples of Enoch and Elijah. Revelation 3: 10 should also be considered. i also contemplate the possibility. That those who are not waiting and looking for the rapture. Will not be taken in the rapture. For this i consider Jesus weeping as he rides into Jerusalem. As well as the parable of the 10 virgins. Which is at the very beginning of Matthew 25. The very first thing talked about after all the discussion of about "end time" / "last days".
The church that is raptured will be like wise virgins, living holy, lamps full of oil aka Holy Spirit, those that are lukewarm or profess Christianity but live however they want, those that still love the world and the things of the world. There are alot of lukewarm people who say oh I believe in God, I said the sinners pray yet still willfully, intentionally live like the world. Even the devil, and demons believe and fear God. I'm not insisting I am right, I'm purely going on what God's word says. The church is never mentioned after rev 4. Read it again fully asking God for wisdom. Search the scriptures, pray and seek God's wisdom not mans.
True. Rapture after the Great Tribulation. Those who are alive and remain in Christ and those who were killed in the name of Christ will meet Christ in the air. And reign with Christ for a 1000 years. The rest of the dead rise not but will be in the great throne Judgement some will wake to everlasting life and some cast into the lake of fire.
Please explain Rev 19:6,7,8 the Bride is in heaven preparing to return with Christ for millennial reign QUESTION HOW AND WHEN did the Bride aka the church get to heaven before the second coming
@@mistysmithey4062 that does nothing to answer the question I asked, everyone on here keeps saying NO RAPTURE but when I read the scripture it says the church is in heaven before second coming
Rapture at the end of the tribulation=no kingdom because 1) all believers are now immortal, having no more children, and 2) at the end of the tribulation all living unbelievers are judged and sent away
The tribulation is OLD COVENANT...the seventieth of the seventy weeks (periods of seven years)... Daniel 9:24-26. The crucification 1) paused the seventy weeks at 69, 2) began the church age. Covenants cannot overlap... the end of the church age at the rapture begins the (suspended) seventieth week. Ever hear of being married and single at the same time?? The rapture and the second coming involve 1) different groups of people, 2) at different places, 3) for different purposes 4) at different times 5) with different outcomes. NOT the same event!
It’s pretty obvious if you read the Bible that a rapture will happen. I have done extensive study and I myself get that from the word of God. The King is coming. This is serious business.
Fair, thank-you for being humble about this subject. There are very strong arguments for both sides. Either way,to live or to die is in Christ-Jesus, Amen.
Exactly. I hope that I am wrong and were are taken out of here. We live each day like the rapture is any minute but we prepare for the long haul. That is the best position to be in I think. If you halve time join us in our discord where we have fellowship 24/7 discord.gg/mJENFuDg
So the LORD said, “I have pardoned them according to your word; but indeed, as I live, all the earth will be filled with the glory of the LORD. Surely all the men who have seen My glory and My signs which I performed in Egypt and in the wilderness, yet have put Me to the test these ten times and have not listened to My voice, shall by no means see the land which I swore to their fathers, nor shall any of those who spurned Me see it. But My servant Caleb, because he has had a different spirit and has followed Me fully, I will bring into the land which he entered, and his descendants shall take possession of it. - Numbers 14:20-24
Very disappointed in you guys, just because I believe in the pre-trib rapture does not mean I will take the mark of the beast and walk away from the faith if I got it wrong. I can actually echo that for others! I also choose not to slander people that believes in post-trib or mid-trib. We all love Jesus. However bless you guys
While you bring a lot of bitterness and arrogance to the table, you don't present much of a case. The absurd accusation that Darby was the father of Dispensationalism and pre-trib Rapture doctrine isn't worthy of a response. And believing that a rapture somehow diminishes the resurrection is personal conjecture. The rapture, or whatever term you might choose, is Pauline doctrine which he received directly from the risen Christ. It is taught only in the 13 Epistles of Paul. By the end of Paul's ministry most of the churches he established had turned or were in the process of turning away from grace doctrine and back to religious bondage. Throughout church history small groups of believers who followed the teachings of Paul remained outside the mainstream church and carried on his ministry. The Roman church branded them heretics and attributed all sorts of heretical doctrines to them. Little is known of their true teachings since they were hunted down and murdered by the official church. It's no different today. Dispensationalism and the pre-trib rapture is said to be a product of freemasonry or the Rothchilds or something that sprang out of the charismatic movement. But at it's heart, it is part of the Mystery program to which Paul was commissioned. What Peter and the 12 were teaching in early Acts was "that which was spoken by all the prophets since the world began." And Paul's commission to the Gentiles was "a mystery kept hidden from before the world." The dispensation of the grace of God began as a mystery and it will end as a mystery. "Behold, I show you a mystery... we shall not all sleep..." Most recently, dispensationalists are accused of being supportive of zionism. But dispensationalism does not support zionism and rejects the notion that modern Israel has a right to the land. They do not. Not until the return of Christ after the tribulation when the true nation cries "Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord." Israel is promised a 'future' kingdom on the earth. The Body of Christ being formed today is a Heavenly kingdom. We are only ambassadors here.
Exactly! There needs to be a separation of 'Kingdom Gospel' and 'Grace Gospel' The Gospel of Grace is Paul's Gospel to the Gentiles. The mystery that was revealed only to Paul. Once you learn the difference everything in the Bible is so much easier to understand.
people being killed and beheaded now has nothing to do with them not getting raptured...that part is not a good argumentive point...also come across as very condenscending & not Christlike in how you present your beliefs
Many people disagree on when/if rapture is going to happen. But I've never heard anyone speak so hatefully about people who believe in pre-trib rapture. Using persecution that has been going on for years and years as an example for your point - where's their rapture? What?! Disagree if you want. But that's not how you talk about brothers and sisters who disagree with you on a non-salvivic issue. Awful.
Im confused on why you think that is hateful. We say everything out of love. We express that we are very concerned that people live so much for their flesh that they want to escape these things that are coming. We worry they will fall away if it doesnt happen.
@@Chrismbrock2009 nope. that's not what you guys said. or at least not Jamie. He was very adamant that those who believe in a pre-trib just live carnally and are going to be the first ones to "fall away." believing doctrines of the devil. You use NO scripture to back up your claims. Nor do you try to refute any of the "pre-trib" scriptures. you go on a 12 and half minute rant on how evil people are for believing and having hope, in the pre-trib. Paul instructs us to encourage one another with the blessed hope of the rapture. the thing that people get messed up on is thinking that the 2nd coming of Christ is the same event as the rapture. It's not. you say that those who believe in the pre-trib just want to escape...have you read Revelation? of course I want to escape. I definitely do not want to be here for those events described in that book. I am just a bit disappointed that you two did not use scripture to back your point up.
Who are the 24 elders in heaven I believe is the church it say they being redeem by the blood Revelation 5:8-10 King James Version 8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints. 9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. I believe that the wedding of the Lamb then the Lamb open the scrolls and the tribulation starts. Then John ask one of the elders who are this Revelation 7:13-15 King James Version 13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. This seem to be the people becoming believers in the tribulation, Plus without rapture believers will know for sure the day return of Christ which is 3.5 years after de abomination desolation.
2 Esdras 13:48-58 23 He that shall endure the peril in that time hath kept himself: they that be fallen into danger are such as have works, and faith toward the Almighty. 24 Know this therefore, that they which be left behind are more blessed than they that be dead. 48 But those that be left behind of thy people are they that are found within my borders. 49 Now when he destroyeth the multitude of the nations that are gathered together, he shall defend his people that remain. 50 And then shall he shew them great wonders.
Understand that I have tried for years to reconcile the rapture theory I want to believe it. What I found is there are tons of isolated scripture points as what you are sharing but it has to align with all of scripture. There is my problem as the only way I am able to get everything to line up is with a post tribulation rapture. Parable of the wheat & the tares is usually the hang up for me.
I haven't watched much of you and watchful since i heard your still friends but you have differences. THIS IS WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT! Where is the love! I thought thats what your show was about people discussing differences of opinion. My thoughts, ego, satan is putting division between people. Hes really good at that. We need strong christains to lead the way. I listened to my local church service this morning and they prayed for my neice because her kidneys were failing...shes doing better. Now thats real life. Thats people praying for each other, though none of deserves Grace. Sorry, im known for speak my mind, if need be. Hopefully, the father gave me the words to speak and its not just my ego. I don't like people arguing over scripture and only brings division, it is about love! I'll continue to pray for you both.
When Chris says scripture he is not familiar with is demons doctrine just because he does not know or understand , it is just the way it is , Scripture is clear do not argue , but his whole intention was to create strife , just so he could tell people to calm down .... even though people told him that it will create problems people should be adult enough that they can talk without fighting , it has become just like the division in the political arena ,
Scripture is clear do not argue , but his whole intention was to create strife , just so he could tell people to calm down .... even though people told him that it will create problems people should be adult enough that they can talk without fighting , it has become just like the division in the political arena ,
After the gospels were written believers will be saved in the time of GRACE. The bride is not appointed to wrath After the rapture those who don’t take the mark will be tribulation saints, those who make it to the end will be saved. There is Christian prosecution all in the world yes; but god will take the church out before he destroys the earth with fire. All of those examples you stated are prosecution from man and not god, that’s the difference.
The Bible doesn't lie. Rev 3;10 I will keep you from the hour of testing, not through or in, but from the hour of testing that will come upon the earth. I tell all mid and post tribbers that one of these days they will be pleasantly surprised. Maranatha!
Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Believe in Jesus and have faith in his blood.
I would also kindly suggest That you find and read the writings of the early church fathers. It came directly from St John. and see what they had to say about the Rapture.
So the young men who were spies went in and brought out Rahab and her father and her mother and her brothers and all she had; they also brought out all her relatives and placed them outside the camp of Israel. - Joshua 6:23
I dont know but I do read the scriptures, two in the field, one will be taken, and, pray that you are worthy to escape all the things to come and stand before the son of man, I will lift him up on the last day . how many in the Bible were taken without death? . I only know that Jesus is King ❤
I had no opinion on the rapture until I had a dream out of the blue which depicted the rapture in almost 3D reality. I had absolutely zero suggestion or prior input into my sub conscious to create this dream, I had almost backslidden to a degree and wasn't engaging in any sort of conversation or watching anything Christian. It came totally out of left field. It was so powerful that it got me out of a sinful relationship and back on track with God.
Read 1 Thessolonians 4. The dead shall rise first then we alive will go next and meet the Lord in the air. Not on earth...that would be the second coming in which we come with Christ on horses in our glorified bodies. So we all are raptured...even the dead. No get outta jail card for them. You will be apologizing for your disgusting unbiblical interpretation. Many will be saved during the tribulation. Many will be persecuted and beheaded before the rapture. Until then I suggest you quit your cruel unknowledgable statements. You better study your Bible. The rapture theology is not only 200yr doctrine. It is the doctrine of the early church and Paul.
Ame @@selina2081
@@selina20813 days of darkness is demonic catholic doctine
What bible are you quoting from?
My bible only has cor1 15:37
Turn the pg its next cor.
Kjv why are our bibles different?
They should all be the same.
Exactly what happened to me , I turned pure white before leaving. Who knows 🤷♀️, there may be one, I can't explain my dream away either.
Dont be so quick to assume who will fall away in your opinion, many people who believe in a harpazo, also prep and are willing to go through much for their faith, you make them out to be shallow wimps, and you are judging them, we take every thought captive for a reason as well as not judge others for a reason made clear in the bible.
They pray for the people who are suffering for their faith and more.
The falling away is already happening now, from what I can see.
From family to so many people right now. 🙏🤍
Very well said!!!!
Exactly !
@@carinarigas947 I agree with you 100%. If ever there was a time, it is now, to come together as believers and lift each other up in love and agree to disagree.
Here’s an example….how many of your here took the shot? Wore the masks and were obedient to your so called goverment?
I was not. There will be no falling away for me IF I’m wrong about the rapture. Off my head will go!
But I’ll be with the Savior and that is all that matters to me.
In the meantime, you can NOT prep enough for what is coming.
The only prepping you can do if you don’t believe in a rapture, is to fill yourself with the Word of God every day. Until He comes or takes me home, here in the cross of Christ I stand!!
God bless you all!
Very true. I couldn't agree more that the falling away is happening now. I don't know why I hear all the time that pre-tribbers will fall away and take the mark. It actually doesn't make sense to me. I tell mid and post tribbers and those who don't believe in a rapture, that very soon they will be pleasantly surprised. Maranatha!
I wanna prep however my wife does not.We are both Christians but I believe in a pre wrath Rapture and she believes in a pre tribulation Rapture. I feel her believe has her believing she has to do nothing before Jesus returns
With or without a rapture. I will follow my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ 🙏
@@tammynelson6752 there’s a rapture according to John 6:40. John and therefore Jesus says it happens on the Last Day. 😊🙏
Amen
That is the main thing. I see so many that their hope is in the rapture. If you take away the rapture, you take all their hope away. It is scary, and those are the ones I fear for. The ones that think there is a rapture, but really don't care when, they are prepared, and their hope is in the right place.
@@danrobbins841exactly
@@Acts258 persecution is promised to all believers. I’m not really sure why y’all are saying this about pre-trip people.
I BELIEVE GOD!
We will be caught up together with them in the clouds 1Thess4:17
After Revelation 3:5......
Shhhh if they could read the Bible they would know this. They gonna be mad when they have to die for Jesus after we’ve been raptured.
@@valorsayles213I agree the bible talks about the rapture. This argument they make doesn't make sense anyway.
Kjv 2 thessalonians 2. Take post it noted and cover all of the verses except for the last one. Rapture.
Yes i believe in the rapture! To not understand the rapture is to not understand the Tribulation.
Walden is deceived. Always has been. He will become one of the tribulation saints that must die for Jesus after the rapture.
@@valorsayles213 Maybe deceived, maybe a plant to take crowns.
@valorsayles213 😢😢😢. Very sad. I just start watching him. Thanks. Not worth watching .
@@rudolfkasanpawiro644 he’s got some decent ideas. He knows we are in the final days, but everyone should know that by now.
I love this and your passion about it! That has ALWAYS been my stance as well, and I'm amazed how attacked I am when I try to voice it? I pray that people get to the point, that no matter how long or hard it is, "to LIVE IS CHRIST and TO DIE IS GAIN so LET'S DO THIS"!
Bless you guys, and thanks for this tonight!
Well stated Kim
Several things:
You said you don’t condemn the pre-trib rapture believers but you call the doctrine a “doctrine of demons” and say 99.97% of them are merely concerned with carnal living? That’s a lie.. straight up and a false generalization.. you can’t make such a statement, you’d have to have perfect knowledge of all believers!!!
That’s a demonic deception. Period.
Question: do you think that EVERY believer lived a life of suffering and persecution? Did those past believers who lived “ quiet and peaceable” lives due to the good fortune of their time and placement on earth, not go to heaven because they didn’t suffer terribly??? According to you - no!
And 1 Thess 5 DOES NOT DESCRIBE JUST THE RESSURRECTION.. a resurrection is from death and the scripture clearly states those “ those who are ALIVE and remain will be caught up”
The acrimony always comes from the post trib and rapture deniers.
And you assume you know the hearts of the pre-tribbers.. such arrogance.. that they will turn against God when suffering happens
And you repeat the provable lie that it is a new doctrine.. even though early church fathers taught it
And you don’t believe in the covenant promises made to a specific people group- the Jews..
REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY is the demonic doctrine that you’re believing -not the rapture
From a man who has suffered for Christ.. in my own time and place..a missionary to drug addicts for 14 years , working with out pay..and also studied the scriptures like you all it’s very evident that you do not take the scriptures IN CONTEXT
I’m preparing to meet Jesus not to endure “ a time like none other in history”.. while you’re prepping for the Wrath of God on an unbelieving world.. you don’t even understand the purpose of the Tribulation
I wish I could have been on that video.. and been given a chance to refute your bombastic claims!
There is so much more I can say.. but I’ll leave it to this.. Jesus is coming for his BRIDE.. the bride is part of the body but it is not the body! You may have to endure the Tribulation because that is your great desire.. I’ll leave you with Jesus words..” according to your faith be it unto you”
There is only one resurrection according to John 5, Acts 24, and Daniel 12. One resurrection of the righteous and of the unrighteous.
Revelation 20 says blessed is he that takes part in the first resurrection. This happens at the end of the tribulation once. That's when all believers receive a new glorified body. Those who were dead in Christ come back to meet those who are alive and remain for the resurrection of the righteous. This one time event has to happen at the end for everyone to be included. God Bless
@ the first resurrection is the resurrection of the righteous.. the first resurrection began with Christ and had many OT saints.. so I can prove there are at least 2 resurrection occurrences in the 1st resurrection .. there is another resurrection of the condemned at the great white throne judgement..Enoch and Elijah were raptured..so its truth was already shown..you need to read ALL OF DANIEL 12.. he is speaking of Daniel’s people.. The Jews..read 12:1 before you make a doctrine of 12:2.. and that is always the case with the post tribbers.. they read Matt 24 and apply it out of context.. but if you want to go through the wrath of God and the wrath of the Lamb..let it be done according to your faith.. this won’t be like anything the devil or the world has ever brought onto the earth.. even worse than the flood God bless
wow. all this anger.... and self-righteousness. If I were not already a devout follower of Jesus, this comment would easily have been a turn off from Christianity
Very well said! A lot of the confusion i believe comes from the idea that the First and Second Resurrections are events in time, when they are better understood as categories. You want to be in the First Resurrection category! This also helps contextualize the resurrections of OT saints that happened in Matthew 27:52.
Lol just entering into your comment. I noticed you gave absolutely no scriptures in your rebuke. And I think I heard you correctly?? You said you are pretrib midtrib or prewrath??? And you felt disrespected as if you found out you were incorrect and it was posttrib that you could certainly endure and wouldn't take the mark of the beast and if you had to you too would accept martyrdom very bravely.??? I am very well versed in all the false definitions of the false pretrib midtrib and prewrath rapture doctrines of demons. Unlike JW I have confronted my friends to get in the scriptures with prayer to explain the importance of true doctrine. Needless to say , I have no friends left!!
Dear fellow believer in Jesus.
Do you have children?? I do!! Have you contemplated having to be forced to watch them starve or be tortured for non compliance to the mark of the beast system? ?? If you are incorrect?? The war against the saints in rev13 specifically says the antichrist overcomes them 2 ways to overcome 1. Submit and fall away from the faith or 2. Suffer and be martyred.
If you would actually read these few scriptures in prayer you might see the truth!
1. 1thess4: 13-17 notice the resurrection of the dead righteous happens FIRST BEFORE the catching up or rapture.
2. Rev20: 4-6 tells us the FIRST resurrection of the dead righteous includes martyrs of the tribulation refusing the mark of the beast.
3. If the resurrection of the dead righteous is posttrib and 1thess4: 13-17 says its before the rapture then the rapture is also posttrib.
4. How many resurrections are there??
Daniel 12: 2 only 2 resurrections one for the dead righteous into eternal life and the other is the condemned to eternal contempt.
5. Compare to Rev20: 4-15 only 2 resurrections. The FIRST resurrection is the righteous into eternal life and the 2nd resurrection is the condemned to eternal contempt ( lake of fire).
If you can't accept these verses I have many more. Please don't reply with weak statements without scripture??? Its disingenuous!!
I need more friends like you.
Live loving God till our last breath.
You will be pleasantly surprised one of these days. Maranatha!
AmenAMEN!!!!! So tired of hearing my pastor talk and encourage so many about,” we’re getting raptured out of here “ just as bad as asking to tithe every weekend!! We as true Christians know that GOD expects this but that’s between us and HIM. Hence why last weekend was my last Sunday at the church I’ve been going to for almost 6 years. I was raised Catholic (demonic) and thankfully became CHRISTIAN 3/4 years ago. Scales are off!!! And TO JESUS ALL THE GLORY!!!!
I rejoice with you that God has saved you and healed you spiritually and justified you through His blood.
@@evelynschultz6753 So your new pastor that teaches pre tribulation rapture... Bye bye 👋. Don't listen anymore. It's BS so don't partake in it. ❤️🙏
@@Kim-js8jfQUESTION I read Rev 19: 6,7,8 it says the Bride aka the church is in heaven preparing to return with Christ for the millennial reign , how and when did the church get there before the second coming
@@heknows5418 Read Enoch chapter one, now read Psalm 37: 9-12, 34-36, Psalm 91:7-8, Matthew 13:40-43, Proverbs 10: 30, John 17:15, Zephaniah 2: 3 Isaiah 26: 20 -21. KJV It's the wicked and Godless ( Tares ) and everything that offends that is removed from the earth. The righteous remain. Jesus is coming back to the earth to reign. Shepherds Chapel teaches chapter by chapter and verse by verse KJV Bible. Eagle wings ministries and shepherds student also play shepherds chapel videos.❤️ God bless you with all truth.
@@Kim-js8jf so Jesus is gonna take the tares off the earth but leave his church with the anti christ, that makes no sense at all
Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
So what about this? What does this mean to you? Sounds like the rapture. Why would some be left if it's the absolute end?
It IS the pre-Tribulation rapture as well as Matthew 25:1-13. After the rapture, when the Antichrist signs the seven years peace treaty, the day count starts and then they will know the exact day of Christ's 2nd Coming. Too bad these guys are not understanding the difference between the church age saints and the Tribulation saints. Maranatha.
How can Satan wage war on the Saints until the End if there’s a pre tribulation that took all the Saints out of here early???
We are not saints. Are you that narcissistic to believe that we are saints? Catholic?
@@JackCrawford-k2pyou know nothing about the Bible. Please study before you comment
Read the book of Revelations. Read John 6:40…..the Rapture happens on the Last Day. The dead in Christ shall arise first.
We are the Saints. The Church is made up of Saints. I’m not Catholic 😂. I’m a Christian that can read the Bible and understand it. If Jesus takes the Tares first and harvests the wheat last, who do you say Jesus says he’s going to harvest first. 🤷♂️ That is the complete opposite of the pre tribulation Bible. I’m glad to know both of you fine gentleman are the final authority on the Bible and what the Lord says. 😊. And you dared use the word narcissistic with me…….🤪
@@L-E-Lcreative1245.handle better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt my simple man.
@@L-E-Lcreative1245.handle sorry, that was for JackCrawford
IN THE 1800'S A ROTHCHILD AND A FEW OTHER MEN DECIDED TO HAVE THE CHURCH TEACH PRE TRIB AND IT EXPLODED. i used to beleive in pre trib up until the 80's. I heard a pastor read scriptures and then, i was confused. I cried out to God to know the truth and He led to His word. I was teaching my small children and wanted the truth. Holy Spirit showed me, sent strangers who too, found the truth. He gave me His peace and never doubted or any confusion. I am still thankful that I was able to show my children the Truth with the WORD !!!!! GOD BLESS YOU GUYS FOR TELLING IT LIKE IT IS !!!!! TRUTH SOMETIMES HURTS, GOTTA GET RID OF PRIDE TO RECIEVE IT ! I HAD TO !
Excellent! My story is similar. Praying for a great awakening before it's too late. Believers need to know.
Amen , I use to believe also. Until, God, showed me. I pray for everyone to wake up 🙏
Look up Margaret Macdonald from Glasgow Scotland...she had a vision in the 1830's which started the false rapture theory...
Where do people get this stuff? The early church fathers taught a pre-trib as well as the Essenes did before Christ. The tribe is the time of JACOBS TROUBLE. Not the church. The Essenes that became followers of Christ (there were more than one sect of them so don't lump them together) knew there would be 2000 years of the times of the Gentiles, then the gentile church would be removed before Daniels 70th week which would bring in the remnant of Israel before the final 1000 year reign of Messiah. It has NOTHING to do with Darby or M Macdonald except that Darby found it in the ancient writings and THEN began to revive it. It was buried by the Catholic church and other preterists centuries earlier.
Dig a little deeper. It didn’t start with the Rothchilds or Darby.
Check out Soothkeep and Lee’s deep dives on pre-Trib
It’s not a new doctrine.
Howdy yall: I'm 63 now & was raised (Independent Baptist). I just learned this year about Scofield/Darby backgrounds and it left me w great pause. I have the same questions that both you Bro Chris & Bro Jamie have discussed here. I have a question. Where does 1 Thessalonians 4 & 5 fit into the scheme of things? Personally, I agree that we as The Beloved should prepare for the worst and hope for the best. I have tasted and have seen that the Lord is good. (Better than good, actually) And yes, whatever the case may be, I pray for God to give me the things I need to stand in a day where persecution may knock on my door. Even if I may have to die for Christ, I'm good w that. That's a win in my book. I can only speak for those who live in the USA. Somewhere along the line, professing Christians have turned into literal pansies. The least little thing goes wrong in their lives and they immediately get an attitude with God. (In time past I have been guilty of the same) When I was growing up in the 60's70's, we used to sing songs about being soldiers for Christ. It has been decades since I have heard anyone even suggest such things as growing and maturing in the faith and to stand up for Christ. I hear of so many who live in other countries that have and are enduring great persecution for bearing the name of Christ. They are an inspiration to me and I would that I too were faced w such circumstances that I too would stand srong regardless. As for my question, I welcome anyone's input on my question.
Dear fellow believer in Jesus. I see your sincerity. May attempt to point somethings out about your question?? I'm going to proceed as If you are very familiar with these passages of scripture. Ok??
1. The dead disembodied souls of the righteous comes with Jesus as He descends.
2. Joel2: 1. Blow the trumpet
11. The Lord utters his voice, he has an army and his camp is very great(lots of persons)
Jude1: 14,15. The Lord comes with his saints.
3. Jesus is bringing the dead righteous disembodied souls, Jesus shouts??angles are present we hear the voice of angels!! The trumpet is blown. These all relate to the passages in old testament prophecies of the day of the Lord.
4. Next we see that the dead righteous disembodied souls are resurrected first.
5. Description of this is 1cor15: 51,52 in a split second the corrupted bodies of dust and ash are changed to incorruptible. At this moment the dead righteous disembodied souls are connected with their glorified bodies and have become eternally resurrected. They are still with Jesus as He is descending this happens in a moment of the twinkling of an eye.
6. Comparative scriptures isaiah26:19 from the dust
Daniel 12:2 the resurrection of the righteous into eternal life
Rev20: 4-6 the FIRST resurrection of the dead righteous includes martyrs of the tribulation refusing the mark of the beast making the resurrection posttrib.
7. Next is the catching up or rapture. This happens a split second after the resurrection and the living righteous are gathered together with Jesus and the resurrected dead.
8. The description in 1cor15: 51,52 claims the mortal ( living) physical bodies are changed and this mortal must put on immortality!! The glorified bodies are harpazo ( snatched ) so quickly. Comparative scripture matt24: 29-31 the angels gather together all the righteous to Jesus.
Conclusion of these scriptures 1thess4: 13-17. Jesus returns resurrects the dead and catches up or raptures the living. Joel's description says the DAY OF THE LORD. Posttrib.
Now to several scriptures of 1thess5: 1-6, 9. Starts off with the day of the Lord comes as a thief
1. Comparative scriptures
2peter3:10 the Day of the Lord comes as a thief
Rev16: 15 after the 6th bowl Jesus interjects saying " behold I come as a thief ..." implying the day of the Lord is after the 6th bowl
Matt24: 42-44 reference to coming as a theif.
2. Yes as a thief BUT NOT TO THE living believers ??? What do the living believers know??? Not the day or hour!!! Matt24: 36!!
3. Investigation about what the living believers know about the day of the Lord??
4. 2thess2: 1-8 the DAY OF THE LORD will not come until after the revealing of antichrist.
5. Daniel 9:27 the prince that will come and cause the abomination of desolation thus revealing that he is antichrist.
6. Matt24: 15 Jesus points out that the abomination of desolation is seen , this is the revealing of antichrist and the matt24:21 there comes the great tribulation
7. Rev13 we know that when the beast comes into power ( revealing of antichrist) he is given 42 months.
8. Daniel 12:11 after the abomination of desolation there is 1290 days until the end.
42 months 1290 days same time period.
Conclusion;; when the living believers see the revealing of antichrist they don't know the day or hour of the 2nd coming but they know the time period!!
Last 1thess5: 9 not appointed to wrath but to obtain salvation.
This promise is for every generation of the righteous, not just the last. John 3: 16
The eternal life is the salvation
The perishing is the wrath described in rev.20: 14, 15.
Grace peace and blessings!
@SuzanneRaski dear fellow believer. Unfortunately this argument doesn't help the false pretribbers or midtrib and prewrathers because of the false definition that Jesus returns 2 times once for pretrib and a 2nd time posttrib. Here's what may help.
1. Matt24: 36, 42-44 the pretribbers believe that the rapture is a secret and that Jesus comes as a thief. Which is partially true.
2. 2peter3: 10 the day of the Lord comes as a thief.
3. 1thess5: 1-6 the DAY of the Lord comes as a thief...
4. 2thess2: 1-8 Jesus returns and gathers together all the righteous called the day of the Lord and will not come until after the revealing of antichrist.
5. Rev16: 15 after the 6th bowl Jesus interjects saying" behold I come as a thief..." after the 6th bowl while the 7th trumpet is sounding (last trumpet) rev10:7 in the DAYS of tge sounding of the 7th angel?? This shows the 7th trumpet sounds for DAYS.
This connects the DAY of the Lord and comes as a thief to POSTTRIB. where there are living believers 1thess5: 1-6.
Just saying!
Now research Iraneus, Ephraim of Syria and Polycarp. All believed in the doctrine of Rapture (Harpazo) the catching away. By the way they were all first century Fathers in the early Church. Polycarp studied under the Apostle John.
Might I remind you that God took Noah away from the flood in a boat, and Lot was removed from the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. Those were Biblical examples of the rapture to come as, you see, they were taken away from the final destruction.
God expects us, as Christians, to give up our lives for Him. Most Christians live carnal lives.Those are the Christians who will go through the "Great Tribulation" period. All of us go through daily tribulation...
Those are examples of how God keeps us while on earth, amidst the destruction. Another is in Rev 12:6 when some of God's people fled to the wilderness to a place God had prepared to be taken care of.
@SuzanneRaski If we look at this in a spiritual sense, Paul was right, and that is true. Water does symbolize purification, but also destruction as, for example, I cited, in Noah's day.
Fire also represents purification.The prophet Malachi uses the analogy of a refiners fire to describe how God purifies our hearts, lt does, also, in the Book of Revelation.
Lot and his family were saved from the fire, not destroyed by it. In both of their physical situations, as i pointed out, each was extracted from a fatal destruction.
@SuzanneRaski Indubitably, we have, and do, live in troubling times. Tribulation follows us, generation after generation.
As to your point, however, I was not saying that we, as 'faithful' Christians, would suffer in the "Great Tribulation" period. I was simply trying to point out that, like the "rich young ruler" who didn't want to give up his riches for 'mental' salvation (Matthew 19:16-23), that that is what a carnal minded man is like; (he is a man dominated by selfishness, he is self-willed, self-focused and self-seeking).
See, we don't have to 'physically' give up our extravagant lifestyle (in fact, we need believers in all walks of life), but we do 'mentally'. God doesn't want our minds dwelling on our worldly goods, but antithetically, on Him. These people honor Jesus with their lips, but their hearts are far away from Him. Countless souls who believe they are saved haven't truly surrendered to God. They have religion, but no relationship.
Indubitably, we are indeed toppling the scales toward, as some have claimed, by entering the "Great Tribulation" period. I don't believe we have quite done so yet, because as it states in II Thessalonians 2 that 'after' the 'rapture', the Anti-christ will be revealed. (Still, the world is indeed seeing precarious times, and I feel this man will be revealed very soon. [And the American president, to be, claims "peace and safety," but, for now, I will say no more, that is another subject]).
However, my eyes and my mind are focused on Christ. And like the diciples, I gave up my riches and followed Christ.
In conclusion, I'd like to briefly relate to all people, saved or unsaved, please surrend your life to Christ... This is imperative; here's why...
You see, I have heard Jesus' voice audibly five times in five word sentences and have had two visions.
In the first vision, Jesus came to me (the surrounding was magnificent) and said, "You've always been with me."The first of five, five word sentence.
It was the second vision I'd like to speak the most about. It was horrifying. Let me explain.
I had seen Jesus in all of his splendor, but I hadn't seen the Devil, Lucifer yet. So I said so to Jesus, "I have seen you, but I haven't seen him, I need to see Satan.
That night, in fierce opposition to the first vision of Christ, this one started as a black spot in a white background. The atmosphere was pure evil, I felt absolutely no good in it, just evil. As the dot grew, it formed the most detestable creature I had ever seen. It stopped inches from my face and said, "I want to eat your face off." [Seeing me would explain that statement, lol.) Anyway, I awoke from that one with my arms crossed screaming, "Save me, Father!"
Now, I don't scare easily, I have been through a lot, but that night, I awoke in fear and panic. I was truly frightened.
Now you may dismiss this as 'hogwash', but I have spoken the truth. We should speak about what Jesus said to me...
Great message!! There’s still much to be done before God is finished with us.
I agree. I see the field white unto harvest now and yet the reapers are few. I cannot shake the feeling that there is not much time left and there is so much to do.
Exactly, tell our family in China and muslim countries about the pretribe rapture! Carnal fleshly preservation is the pretribe rapture!
Exactly
The pre trib camp is running very quickly out of runway before they will need to admit the trib is here
It is still open with a minimum expiration until about early may 2025.... excluding any fall feast day next year.
Honestly I believe in the rapture with all my heart, and from my point of view is in the bible.
Walden is deceived. He will have to die in the tribulation for Jesus to go to heaven because he’s denying Jesus words.
Yes, it is all throughout the Bible. They cannot see it due to blind pride.
Titus 2: 13. The purpose of the Tribulation is for the salvation of the Jewish Nation. That’s why it’s called Jacob’s Trouble. You can stay here if you want like I’m the bride of Christ and my bridegroom will not beat me nor any other fellow believers. We’re not appointed unto to God’s/ Yahweh’s Wrath even though we have tribulations on this earth not Great Tribulation.
We are isreal,were grafted un when we became born again.
I watched this video twice, so that I won’t be talking without understanding, I agree with pre tribulations rapture , but I am not 100% really on that and not prepared for worse .
I believe whenever will be the rapture or our Redemption, to stay on the narrow path and looking up is crucial !
Yet brother Jamie did not make any sense on speaking against ppl who believe in rapture. At least I didn’t not quite get you by saying where is such and such’s rapture, so and so’s rapture ? Rapture is not promised every time ppl have sacrificial death! We know multitudes of ppl who sacrificed their life for the Sake of Gospel from the time of the apostles all the way to this day! Why would they have rapture before the appointed time comes , which is “like a thief in the night“ . That day supposed to happen in the future not in the past .
All of the saints you have mentioned will rise from the dead before the ones still living change in the blink of an eye to our glorified body.
I know one thing, that soon my Lord will come to take his bride home! 🙏🏽
Waiting on the rapture!!
Rapture very soon!!😊
Wow! Thank you so much for your perspective. I appreciate your honesty. That was allot to swallow but I know I saw this for a purpose. I had a strange dream and I think that you pretty much nailed it to help me gain more wisdom and seek more through scripture. I’m going through my Bible a third time just to recall exactly what it says again and seek the kingdom of God.
John 6 speaks 4 times that he ( the saints) will be raised on the last day which will be at the last trump. There is no pre tribulation rapture. Matthew 24:29-31 discussing immediately after tribulation he will gather his elect at the last trump. There are many verses that talk about the saints being overcome in Revelation as well
I Believe that JESUS Christ will give me strength to get through this hard times !
You guys are on the right track. How about checking out these questions?
Has anyone ever tested Paul to see if he is an approved Apostle? It seems everyone is relying on his epistles being in the canon since the mid 300’s. Can there be a 13th apostle who never was taught by Jesus, didn’t learn anything from the 12 apostles hand picked by Jesus, brings a MYSTERY gospel that was not spoken of by Jesus on earth? Matt 19:23, Rev 21:14, Gal 1:12,16, Gal 2:6-9, Acts 22:18
We are required to test doctrines, teachers, prophets, or spirits. Deuteronomy 13 is called the Punishment of Apostates passage. Does God test us with false prophets? How do we show we love God in Deut 13? Do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits - 1 John 4:1
The Bereans were more noble.. Searching the scriptures whether those things were so (right after Paul arrives) - Acts 17:11 All Asia turned against Paul. Ephesians rejected Paul. Rev 2:2 Jesus commends Ephesus for rejecting a false apostle and found them liars.
Jesus could not contradict the Old Testament. Any teacher after Jesus must be consistent with Jesus. They must also not contradict themselves. John 5:46-47 Matt 5:17
1 John 4:2-3 antichrist denies that Jesus came in the flesh. 1 John 2:18-22 antichrist denies the father and the son (deny can mean contradict). Paul says “in the appearance of a man”.
There must be two or three witnesses to a matter. Can Paul be his only witness? Deut 19:15
In Matthew 24 Jesus says do not be deceived. Do not believe the one who says they meet Jesus in the wilderness (road to Damascus?) or in an inner room (jail cell?).
All eyes will see Jesus when he returns. Can Jesus pop in and out visiting any person in private? Matt 24 - as lightning goes from east to west, so shall be the coming of the Son of Man.
What does being a wolf in sheep’s clothing mean? It means that someone can speak sheep words (truth) but also speak as a wolf (lies). We have to discern if someone is a wolf by looking for their words that contradict Jesus. Beware of RAVENING wolves - Matthew 7. Benjamin is a RAVENING wolf - Gen 49. Who is from the tribe of Benjamin? Benjamin kills in the morning and divides the spoils in the evening. Who murdered Christians at first, then converts but never joins with the Jerusalem church and starts his own churches?
The Bible says the 12 apostles are the foundations but Paul says he builds on no one else’s foundation.
Should a teacher like Paul quote Jesus a lot? Should we be wary of someone who is a Pharisee? Beware the leaven of the Pharisees and Herod Mark 8:15; Matt 6:6,12. Who was of the family of Herod? The leaven of the Pharisees is hypocrisy (deceit, acting: Jew to the Jew, Greek to the Greeks). Who claimed he used deceit to spread HIS gospel? 2 Cor 12:16
What are the qualifications of an apostle in the one example we have? Acts 1:21-22: been with the apostles from John’s baptism until the ascension. At Peter’s denial he was asked three questions: 1) were you with Jesus? 2)were you with his disciples? 3) are you a Gaililean? How would Paul answer those?
Can someone who says they have a demon of Satan in them also have the Holy Spirit?
Do you know that Luther and Carlstadt turned against Paul and faith alone? Right after Jesus’s ascension a group called the poor, Ebionites, rejected Paul. Every so often from then on people and scholars have found some odd things about Paul where he contradicts Jesus.
Deuteronomy 18 speaks of a prophet like Moses whom God will speak through. This is Jesus.
In Numbers 12 Aaron and Miriam challenge Moses’s authority because they had dreams and visions. God says those are inferior to him speaking face to face with Moses. God speaks through Jesus. I would say that is the highest form of communication. Who is this self proclaimed Apostle who says he has a vision, goes to the 3rd heaven but can’t tell us the unutterable words he may or may not have heard???
This was so well said! Thank you brothers. This pre trib rapture and rapture arguement that seems to be taking over everywhere is tiring to constantly hear because it does seem that people who beleive in pre trib are all about self preservation and i dont prescribe to that thinking as a christian. I too also beleive that because of the pre trib rapture believers that when they are still here when they beleive they shouldnt be and that God should have taken them is where the falling away will come in and it will be once again for self preservation
Agreed. I pray that folks open their eyes.
Jesus said if you try to save your life you will lose it but if you give your life to him, die to self, you will save your life. I can't get through Jeremy Riddle's song Jesus Have It All without crying ♥️
When Moses sent Caleb and Joshua to spy out the Land, many of the people that went with them came back with an ill report of the sons of the Nephilim Inhabiting this Land, it caused great division in the camp. Only Joshua and Caleb said our God is mighty, he will deliver us from these, they had a deep abiding faith that they would be delivered, no doubt whatsoever. The other saw with their physical eyes, and believed and lost faith. God promised that those who had no faith in his great salvation would not see the promised Land.
I was taught this day one of being saved…and believed it to my core. Until 2021…I watched a video about it being a demonic teaching- usually I would of turned it off and not listen to such garbage-but I continued to watch until the end- and was shaken to my core. I prayed that Jesus would confirm one way or the other, I was pretty shaken up about it. Jesus is faithful and has brought me undeniable confirmation …and this is yet another confirmation. Thank You
Thank you Jamie and chris!
Don't be afraid to share the truth with him because you're afraid you might offend them because if they hear you they can be saved . And if they don't hear you they could be saved in the millennium because we're going to be teaching them and preaching them for a thousand years
It breaks my heart that so many people are deceived especially my fellow Americans no body else other than people of western culture believe in a pre trib rapture.
I feel the same way. The Lord showed me years ago that there is no pre trib rapture and told me to tell others because a falling away is coming and people believe they will be out of here before they face any tribulation. Breaks my heart and the weight of it weighs heavy on my spirit.
Вы ошибаетесь :)
Миллионы людей по всему миру верят в доскорбное восхищение церкви, в то, что Отец небесный не оставит нас на земле на время Своего гнева!
Мы готовим наши сердца уже несколько лет, потому что ничто нечистое не может войти в Царство Небесное!
Очень много каналов на Ютуб-бе англоязычных, русскоязычных и других, где мы молимся друг за друга и ободряем каждый день.
Можете сами проверить :)
Ищите Господа всем сердцем - Он достоин всей славы, любви и поклонения....
Exactly. A series called revelation the end of days had the scenario where the children disappeared first. Then later on some of the adults disappeared. So out of sorts.
Thank you for speaking about the subject.
Health and prosperity to you and your family.
So well said, guys, ❤
I want to suggest that the rapture cannot happen before the Ekklesia has taken the gospel to the nations, as taught by the Lord in Matthew 24:14, Mark 13:10, Luke 21:24. This would be in fulfilment of the Great Commission-Matthew 28:18-20, in the building of Christ’s Ekklesia, comprising born again Jews and born again Gentiles-Matthew 16:18.
I believe the progress of the gospel can be determined by the Bible being translated into the native languages of all the nations. This is how the gospel started on the Day of Pentecost, when the people heard the Word of God in their own languages-Acts 2:8. This has certainly been the case since the Reformation. To date, there remains about 20 percent of Bible translations to complete the work. And with the use of computer technology and AI, the work of Bible translation would surely be speeded up!Marantha.
Because they Loved NOT the truth. People want a reassuring Lie instead of an inconvenient truth.
Jesus gives the reassurance ,not people that have not really studied ,
This is the 3rd time he played this video , it is about getting views and comments to get money from Tube , that is an inconvenient truth.
@kubicmile9609 if you believe the rapture doctrine you are believing in a LIE period.
@enigmainwater2493 TRUTH BOMB, you just spoke
@@enigmainwater2493 it's about getting the TRUTH of this important matter to God's children so they know how things are going down. So people don't worship AC( false Jesus) when he comes FIRST to decieve the world with all signs and lying wonders. Don't worry about Christopher, and if he makes money or not. That's not your concern. Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling and leave the judging to God.
I totally agree! 👍🏼 Thank you! I used to be pretrib but after listening to a TH-camr on it and studying it further, it hit me. And I knew without a doubt that we would all go through the tribulation. You guys are saying what I’ve been saying for years now.
The church is not mentioned after Revelation 4.
The 7 year tribulation period is to deal with Israel.
The Pre-tribulation Rapture scriptures
1 Corinthians 15:50-52
1 Thessalonians 4:15-18
Luke 17:26-36
Rapture in the Greek is harpazo. Rapture in the Latin Bible is Rapturo.
Jesus comes in the air and comes at the second coming. Two different events. These two are very angry and deceived.
What bible vs is this from please
I cant reference this in my kjv
My cor1 only goes to 37.
Kjv@@B.I.-EIO_macdonald9786
What version do you have ?
@@myriammcdowall3116 kjv new and old testament
@B.I.-EIO_macdonald9786 same. Mine has the verses.
So true! They base the rapture foundation on the fact that there is no mention of "The Church" after Revelation 4! How beguiled do you have to be
Jesus was crystal clear, "those who endure to THE END will be Saved"
…the end of the Age? Which is pre-wrath.
@christalbryant4529 "the end". The Day of The Lord
YOU GUYS MAY HAVE IT WRONG AND OF COURSE NOONE WANTS TO GO THROUGH THE TRIB IIF THEY DONT HAVE TO AND WHO WOULD WANT TO, no one BUT IF WE HAVE TO, we WILL. I BELIEVE THE BIBLE AND ITS IN THE BIBLE
It matters how, either way? Let's not let our adversary drive a wedge between us over when/how we go! Pursue relationship with Jesus Christ. Period. Would our Blessed Savior like for His bride to bicker over the end, or encourage, admonish, and fellowship throughout the day to day?
Maybe someone can explain to me what difference it makes when the tribulation is? Maybe this conversation is more for the very financially secure, with more time and fewer concerns in their today life...
Laura - Your 100% correct. What is important is the personal relationship with our Lord and savior
@@Chrismbrock2009 and our relationship with other Believers as our second concern. Iron sharpens Iron.
Saints are not destined for God's wrath, which takes place during the Great Tribulation. Those who choose to follow Messiah during this tribulation are called saints as well. You two men are stuck and do not understand that context is king when it comes to the Scriptures.
The Great Tribulation is not part of God's wrath or it'd be called the Great Wrath.
I pray that you'll figure out the difference between the 7 seals, and read about them, compared to the 7 bowl JUDGEMENTS.
I wish to stay and witness it. No matter how bad it gets
“Likewise the chief priests also mocking with the scribes, the Pharisees, and the elders, said, “He saved others, but he can’t save himself. If he is the King of Israel, let him come down from the cross now, and we will believe in him. He trusts in God. Let God deliver him now, if he wants him; for he said, ‘I am the Son of God.’” The robbers also who were crucified with him cast on him the same reproach. Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land until the ninth hour. About the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lima sabachthani?” That is, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”
Matthew 27:41-46
Yeshua mocks his scoffers in that last statement. As they don’t realize the Fathers wrath or the great tribulation only falls on disobedient sons. The cross is about Christ setting up his Melchizedek tent by which the righteous run in and are saved. But disobedient sons fail to guard themselves against the leaven of the herodian’s that Christ warned against. Therefore, they perceive God’s wrath as an opportunity to be a hero. Unaware that they will receive the Father’s behind whipping like a champ until they repent.
You can receive the water baptism of repentance prior to the great tribulation, which is our Father’s verbal warning/priestly purification
Or be baptized by fire in the great tribulation or hour of testing. Like Namaan, the mighty man who was humbled of his heroism, being instructed to wash 7 times in the Jordan River.
Take your pick children of God.
Well said brother!
Amen. Thanks for the truth!!
Of course. Mercy & Truth
Thank you for sharing truth and preparing saints for endurance and the test of faith in Jesus through out everything that is to come.
I have found that the people that believe in the rapture before tribulation will argue black and blue that they are 💯 right and that there is no other way. It's really sad that they believe this,they have no back up plan,it's the rapture or nothing. It truly baffles me and I feel for these people. May God show them the truth and guide them to it. God bless you all brothers and sisters. God bless 🙌 🙏 ❤️
Rapture is code for doomsday cults. It's just a means of control.
"If you don't follow our rules. You will be excommunicated and left behind."
So glad I found you guys…..
Im positive if there is not a rapture people will still stand strong in the Lord, you should not judge.
😊😊 thankyouthankyou!
What's even more shocking is how angry Christians get when you try to discuss it with them.
I call it the great deception
Yes they do get very bent out of shape.
We are supposed to tell the truth of Gods word pull as many as we can out of the darkness
GOD IS GOING TO SAVE THE CHURCH AND SPANK THE WORLD FOR 7 YEARS TITUS 2 13 COLOSSIANS 3;4 HEBREWS 12 22 REVELATION 5 9 HABAKKUK 2 1;3 LIKE 21:34-36 JOHN 14 1-3 ENJOY GODS WORD IT NEVER CHANGES ONLY BECOMES FULFILL
ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!!!
@SuzanneRaski have you considered the different between Matthew 5
@SuzanneRaski sorry have you considered the different between Matthew 24:27 & Matthew 24:30 to different events also Revelation 5:9 the church ( believers) watch Jesus open the seals on a 7 year time of Jacob's trouble
**Scripture never says he comes twice as far as the rapture and then at the millennial reign.
1 Thessalonians 4:17
"Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air".
Jesus is only in the air to meet us and never arrives on earth for the rapture. So Jesus only comes back to earth again 7 yrs after the rapture to set his feet on the mount of olives. Pre-trib 🙌🙌🙌🙌
YES!!!!!!!
The Harpazzo 😊❤
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
@
💨🤩🎊
Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, “Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?”
- 1 Corinthians 15:51-55
Deception is freaking rampant. So much has come to light in the past four years. So thankful and extremely grateful that God allowed the scales to fall from my eyes. Humbled to the core and totally changed. I mean, changed. I think you all should have a debriefing for recovering evanjellies & Baptists! 😂😊✨🧂✨
lol evanjellies, now thats a good one. Truth is it is a terrible situation to be in, but it is a very apt way to put it. And yes, the deception(s) are highly sophisticated now in 2024 and getting worse. Matthew 24:24
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
All we need to understand rapture doctrine is the word of God. He only returns once. It is him second coming. All those that endure to the end will be caught up with him upon his return....you will be here. You will have to endure. Or, perhaps your heart will fail you for fear of what is seen coming on the face of the earth. However, you should take great comfort in Jesus Christ if you have called on him for what he has done knowing this, that your already dead in Christ, and he is the one who defeated death and rose up again. If you belong to him, you have nothing to fear of man, and should fear God only through great love and honor and trembling.
not correct , but you can believe what you prefer
I'm listening.
simple example , in multiple books of the Bible shows that Messiah Jesus confirms the covenant , but because many preachers say that the AC confirms the covenant , people believe the false narrative just because it is preachers saying it.
There is no scripture anywhere that says the AC confirms it , it is how Dan 9 :27 has been twisted , so we ask what is the covenant about that this AC is to confirm ?, again the false narrative is fallacy saying it is about a peace treaty , but there is no scripture at all about a peace treaty , it does not exist , so they twist scripture about when Paul says when they say peace and security sudden destruction comes
There is no scripture anywhere that says the AC confirms it , it is how Dan 9 :27 has been twisted , so we ask what is the covenant about that this AC is to confirm ?, again the false narrative is fallacy saying it is about a peace treaty , but there is no scripture at all about a peace treaty , it does not exist , so they twist scripture about when Paul says when they say peace and security sudden destruction comes
I believe!❤
Our studies have shown that Christ only returns once.
I’ll break it down for you.
TOOO MANY FOLKS HAVE learned the Bible narrative by listening to false TH-cam teaches. Learn this stuff YOURSELF by reading the Bible with the Holy Spirit. Study yourself to be approved. If you simply read the Bible yourself you’ll come to the exact same conclusion of the truth as I have.
Reference this so you fully understand, because the pre trib rapture narrative is demonic deception intended to cause the falling away of the church. So when what they think is a promise from the Lord doesn’t happen, they abandon their faith and take the mark of the beast. The Devil is very very clever. Remember he steels, kills and destroys. Scripture does not contradict itself. Ever.
The Pre-Tribulation Rapture view teaches that believers will be taken to heaven before the tribulation begins. Below are the key scriptures often cited to support this view, along with counterpoints that prove this interpretation is deception.
1. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
“For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.”
Pre-Trib View: This event is seen as a distinct “rapture,” where believers meet Christ in the air before the tribulation begins.
Rebuttal:
• The text does not explicitly place this event before the tribulation.
• Instead, it aligns with the Second Coming, where Christ gathers all believers at the end of the age.
• Matthew 24:31 similarly describes angels gathering the elect “with a loud trumpet call” after the tribulation, suggesting a post-tribulation event.
2. 1 Corinthians 15:51-52
“Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed-in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.”
Pre-Trib View: This “last trumpet” is interpreted as the rapture trumpet, separate from the final trumpet in Revelation.
Rebuttal:
• The term “last trumpet” implies finality, consistent with the seventh trumpet in Revelation (Revelation 11:15), which signals Christ’s kingdom and judgment.
• This event coincides with the resurrection and Second Coming, not a secret, pre-tribulation rapture.
3. Revelation 3:10
“Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.”
Pre-Trib View: “Keep you from the hour of trial” means believers will be taken out of the world before the tribulation.
Rebuttal:
• The phrase “keep you from” (Greek: tereo ek) can also mean protection through the trial, not necessarily removal.
• Examples: In John 17:15, Jesus prays for believers to be kept from the evil one, while remaining in the world.
4. John 14:2-3
“My Father’s house has many rooms…I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.”
Pre-Trib View: Jesus is preparing a heavenly place for believers and will take them there during the rapture.
Rebuttal:
• This passage emphasizes Christ’s return but does not specify a timeline or pre-tribulation removal.
• The “coming back” could refer to the Second Coming, where believers join Him permanently.
5. Titus 2:13
“While we wait for the blessed hope-the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.”
Pre-Trib View: The “blessed hope” is the pre-tribulation rapture, providing comfort to believers.
Rebuttal:
• The “blessed hope” is Christ’s ultimate return, which includes the resurrection and eternal reign.
• No clear distinction is made between rapture and Second Coming here.
Rebutting the Pre-Tribulation View with Scriptural Evidence
1. The Parable of the Wheat and the Tares (Matthew 13:24-30, 36-43)
Jesus explains that both the righteous (wheat) and the wicked (tares) grow together until the harvest, which represents the end of the age.
Key Rebuttal:
• Verse 30: “Let both grow together until the harvest.”
• The separation happens at the end, with no prior removal of the righteous. The wicked are dealt with first, and the righteous are gathered afterward-aligning with a single Second Coming, not a pre-tribulation rapture.
2. Matthew 24:29-31
“Immediately after the distress of those days…the Son of Man will appear in the sky…and he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds.”
Key Rebuttal:
• The gathering of the elect happens after the tribulation, clearly indicating that believers endure through tribulation before being gathered by Christ.
3. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3
“Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him…that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed.”
Key Rebuttal:
• Paul emphasizes that the gathering (often equated with the rapture) will not happen until after the appearance of the antichrist.
• This directly contradicts the notion of a pre-tribulation rapture.
4. Revelation 20:4-5
“They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.)”
Key Rebuttal:
• The resurrection of the righteous occurs after the tribulation, corresponding with Christ’s Second Coming.
• There is no indication of an earlier resurrection or rapture event.
5. John 6:39-40
“And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.”
Key Rebuttal:
• Jesus consistently refers to the “last day” as the time of resurrection, indicating a single event for all believers, not a pre-tribulation rapture.
Conclusion:
The Pre-Tribulation Rapture relies on assumptions and interpretations that isolate certain verses from their broader context. However, a holistic reading of scripture supports a single event at the end of the age, where Christ returns to gather His people and execute judgment, as described in the Parable of the Wheat and the Tares and other passages. Believers are called to endure through tribulation, awaiting the glorious Second Coming of Christ.
We are to be working when Jesus comes!
Thank you for the truth, I believed in the pretribulation for so long because of fear, my husband told me the truth and we have gone around and around, maybe it was because I have been through so much pain in this life, I was blind to the fact that I have to persevere through all of it, to the very end.
I hope and pray my brothers and sister have a solid enough relationship with the One True Living God that even if they are off in this doctrine they will adjust quickly and move fast and forward with the Lord as we are His bride and He will not forsake any of us. Sorry not trying to condemn Gods people to hell because their beliefs are a little wonky. Gods greater then their disbelief. Thank God His ways are so greater then yours or mine thinking!
What takes greater faith, must do it myself or must trust God to do it for me?
"Endure unto death and you shall receive the Crown of Life". Jesus told us that the persecution would come... and that we would be here for it.
So glad your saying it!!!!!! EZEKIEL 13 verse 20 ❤
Amen
Hi 👋 guys God Bless you all Amen ❤❤❤🎉🎉🎉😊😊😊
Rapture and Resurrection are similar sounding words in english. Similar concepts, broadly speaking. Have similar descriptions. There are various places through out the Bible that have some of these same dynamics. Sometimes it is 2 events separated by a single detail. The Rapture is not necessarily a resurrection. Those raptured maybe taken in spirit only. It is possible they are resurrected later.
For 1800 years the Jews have been exiled from Israel. Due to the leaders only expecting the Messiah coming one time and only to fight their physical enemies. All the verses that talked about the suffering servant were ignored or assumed to be someone else. Noah was removed from the Judgement. Lot was taken out of the Judgement of Sodom and Gomorrah. Moses and the Jewish people where told what to do. To protect themselves from the Judgement of the first born, of the final plague.
Revelation 7: 9-14 especially verse 14. They are take out of or away from the Great Tribulation.
Isaiah 26: 19-21 verse 19 is a rapture / resurrection event. Verse 20 is similar to Revelation 6: 9-11 and Revelation 7: 9-14. Meanwhile verse 21 seems to be the 2-3 bowl Judgements of Revelation 16: 3-7.
The word used for rapture also has precedence for people being removed. Acts 8: 39 During which Phillip is taken away by the Holy Spirit.
Precedence should also be considered from the examples of Enoch and Elijah.
Revelation 3: 10 should also be considered.
i also contemplate the possibility. That those who are not waiting and looking for the rapture. Will not be taken in the rapture. For this i consider Jesus weeping as he rides into Jerusalem. As well as the parable of the 10 virgins. Which is at the very beginning of Matthew 25. The very first thing talked about after all the discussion of about "end time" / "last days".
AMEN!!!
If church and innocent children are raptured… who are the YOUNG and old who will be made to take the mark?
Israel and nonbelievers throughout the world.
The church that is raptured will be like wise virgins, living holy, lamps full of oil aka Holy Spirit, those that are lukewarm or profess Christianity but live however they want, those that still love the world and the things of the world. There are alot of lukewarm people who say oh I believe in God, I said the sinners pray yet still willfully, intentionally live like the world. Even the devil, and demons believe and fear God. I'm not insisting I am right, I'm purely going on what God's word says. The church is never mentioned after rev 4. Read it again fully asking God for wisdom. Search the scriptures, pray and seek God's wisdom not mans.
I'm just keeping my eyes and heart on focusing on Yeshua
True. Rapture after the Great Tribulation. Those who are alive and remain in Christ and those who were killed in the name of Christ will meet Christ in the air. And reign with Christ for a 1000 years. The rest of the dead rise not but will be in the great throne Judgement some will wake to everlasting life and some cast into the lake of fire.
Please explain Rev 19:6,7,8 the Bride is in heaven preparing to return with Christ for millennial reign QUESTION HOW AND WHEN did the Bride aka the church get to heaven before the second coming
God’s kingdom is coming down to earth well a new earth he creates
@@mistysmithey4062 that does nothing to answer the question I asked, everyone on here keeps saying NO RAPTURE but when I read the scripture it says the church is in heaven before second coming
Rapture at the end of the tribulation=no kingdom because 1) all believers are now immortal, having no more children, and 2) at the end of the tribulation all living unbelievers are judged and sent away
The tribulation is OLD COVENANT...the seventieth of the seventy weeks (periods of seven years)... Daniel 9:24-26. The crucification 1) paused the seventy weeks at 69, 2) began the church age. Covenants cannot overlap... the end of the church age at the rapture begins the (suspended) seventieth week. Ever hear of being married and single at the same time?? The rapture and the second coming involve 1) different groups of people, 2) at different places, 3) for different purposes 4) at different times 5) with different outcomes. NOT the same event!
You are so correct. I love you
It’s pretty obvious if you read the Bible that a rapture will happen. I have done extensive study and I myself get that from the word of God. The King is coming. This is serious business.
Fair, thank-you for being humble about this subject. There are very strong arguments for both sides. Either way,to live or to die is in Christ-Jesus, Amen.
Exactly. I hope that I am wrong and were are taken out of here. We live each day like the rapture is any minute but we prepare for the long haul. That is the best position to be in I think.
If you halve time join us in our discord where we have fellowship 24/7 discord.gg/mJENFuDg
So the LORD said, “I have pardoned them according to your word; but indeed, as I live, all the earth will be filled with the glory of the LORD. Surely all the men who have seen My glory and My signs which I performed in Egypt and in the wilderness, yet have put Me to the test these ten times and have not listened to My voice, shall by no means see the land which I swore to their fathers, nor shall any of those who spurned Me see it. But My servant Caleb, because he has had a different spirit and has followed Me fully, I will bring into the land which he entered, and his descendants shall take possession of it.
- Numbers 14:20-24
Very disappointed in you guys, just because I believe in the pre-trib rapture does not mean I will take the mark of the beast and walk away from the faith if I got it wrong. I can actually echo that for others! I also choose not to slander people that believes in post-trib or mid-trib. We all love Jesus. However bless you guys
I agree 100 percent. This is the great deception.
1 Corinthians 11:14. (Every man) praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonours his head.
Sorry Jamie you don't don't love them if you are willing to let them fall away without warning them for fear of offending them.
In your patience possess ye your souls
Well …. The rapture is one of the resurrection …. There are in scriptures about 7 resurrections mentioned
You'll never make these Bible illiterate know-it-alls to crack that book. They are doomers, doom posting for the almighty dollar. Hirelings.
So very happy to hear this being shared. The ‘pre-trib rapture’ is such a strong delusion
While you bring a lot of bitterness and arrogance to the table, you don't present much of a case. The absurd accusation that Darby was the father of Dispensationalism and pre-trib Rapture doctrine isn't worthy of a response. And believing that a rapture somehow diminishes the resurrection is personal conjecture. The rapture, or whatever term you might choose, is Pauline doctrine which he received directly from the risen Christ. It is taught only in the 13 Epistles of Paul. By the end of Paul's ministry most of the churches he established had turned or were in the process of turning away from grace doctrine and back to religious bondage. Throughout church history small groups of believers who followed the teachings of Paul remained outside the mainstream church and carried on his ministry. The Roman church branded them heretics and attributed all sorts of heretical doctrines to them. Little is known of their true teachings since they were hunted down and murdered by the official church. It's no different today. Dispensationalism and the pre-trib rapture is said to be a product of freemasonry or the Rothchilds or something that sprang out of the charismatic movement. But at it's heart, it is part of the Mystery program to which Paul was commissioned. What Peter and the 12 were teaching in early Acts was "that which was spoken by all the prophets since the world began." And Paul's commission to the Gentiles was "a mystery kept hidden from before the world." The dispensation of the grace of God began as a mystery and it will end as a mystery. "Behold, I show you a mystery... we shall not all sleep..." Most recently, dispensationalists are accused of being supportive of zionism. But dispensationalism does not support zionism and rejects the notion that modern Israel has a right to the land. They do not. Not until the return of Christ after the tribulation when the true nation cries "Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord." Israel is promised a 'future' kingdom on the earth. The Body of Christ being formed today is a Heavenly kingdom. We are only ambassadors here.
I cannot believe how much you said in this that is incorrect and unscriptural........ it's not too late to teshuva..... to repent
@@tressabowles5817what did he say that was wrong? And what does he need to repent about specifically?
Exactly! There needs to be a separation of 'Kingdom Gospel' and 'Grace Gospel' The Gospel of Grace is Paul's Gospel to the Gentiles. The mystery that was revealed only to Paul. Once you learn the difference everything in the Bible is so much easier to understand.
people being killed and beheaded now has nothing to do with them not getting raptured...that part is not a good argumentive point...also come across as very condenscending & not Christlike in how you present your beliefs
Amen!!! God bless y’all ♥️💯💯♥️⚔️🛡️⚔️
Many people disagree on when/if rapture is going to happen. But I've never heard anyone speak so hatefully about people who believe in pre-trib rapture. Using persecution that has been going on for years and years as an example for your point - where's their rapture? What?! Disagree if you want. But that's not how you talk about brothers and sisters who disagree with you on a non-salvivic issue. Awful.
Im confused on why you think that is hateful. We say everything out of love. We express that we are very concerned that people live so much for their flesh that they want to escape these things that are coming. We worry they will fall away if it doesnt happen.
@@Chrismbrock2009 nope. that's not what you guys said. or at least not Jamie. He was very adamant that those who believe in a pre-trib just live carnally and are going to be the first ones to "fall away." believing doctrines of the devil. You use NO scripture to back up your claims. Nor do you try to refute any of the "pre-trib" scriptures. you go on a 12 and half minute rant on how evil people are for believing and having hope, in the pre-trib. Paul instructs us to encourage one another with the blessed hope of the rapture. the thing that people get messed up on is thinking that the 2nd coming of Christ is the same event as the rapture. It's not. you say that those who believe in the pre-trib just want to escape...have you read Revelation? of course I want to escape. I definitely do not want to be here for those events described in that book. I am just a bit disappointed that you two did not use scripture to back your point up.
Yep. FINALLY the Truth!!
Amen amen amen
Who are the 24 elders in heaven I believe is the church it say they being redeem by the blood
Revelation 5:8-10
King James Version
8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
I believe that the wedding of the Lamb then the Lamb open the scrolls and the tribulation starts.
Then John ask one of the elders who are this
Revelation 7:13-15
King James Version
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
This seem to be the people becoming believers in the tribulation,
Plus without rapture believers will know for sure the day return of Christ which is 3.5 years after de abomination desolation.
2 Esdras 13:48-58
23 He that shall endure the peril in that time hath kept himself: they that be fallen into danger are such as have works, and faith toward the Almighty.
24 Know this therefore, that they which be left behind are more blessed than they that be dead.
48 But those that be left behind of thy people are they that are found within my borders.
49 Now when he destroyeth the multitude of the nations that are gathered together, he shall defend his people that remain.
50 And then shall he shew them great wonders.
Understand that I have tried for years to reconcile the rapture theory I want to believe it. What I found is there are tons of isolated scripture points as what you are sharing but it has to align with all of scripture. There is my problem as the only way I am able to get everything to line up is with a post tribulation rapture. Parable of the wheat & the tares is usually the hang up for me.
I haven't watched much of you and watchful since i heard your still friends but you have differences.
THIS IS WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT! Where is the love! I thought thats what your show was about people discussing differences of opinion.
My thoughts, ego, satan is putting division between people. Hes really good at that. We need strong christains to lead the way.
I listened to my local church service this morning and they prayed for my neice because her kidneys were failing...shes doing better. Now thats real life. Thats people praying for each other, though none of deserves Grace.
Sorry, im known for speak my mind, if need be. Hopefully, the father gave me the words to speak and its not just my ego.
I don't like people arguing over scripture and only brings division, it is about love!
I'll continue to pray for you both.
When Chris says scripture he is not familiar with is demons doctrine just because he does not know or understand , it is just the way it is ,
Scripture is clear do not argue , but his whole intention was to create strife , just so he could tell people to calm down .... even though people told him that it will create problems
people should be adult enough that they can talk without fighting , it has become just like the division in the political arena ,
When Chris says scripture he is not familiar with is demons doctrine just because he does not know or understand , it is just the way it is ,
Scripture is clear do not argue , but his whole intention was to create strife , just so he could tell people to calm down .... even though people told him that it will create problems
people should be adult enough that they can talk without fighting , it has become just like the division in the political arena ,
Since we know his stance already , we know what to expect , a condemnation on what he is not aware of so he will have some guest to support his view
Chris has stated that he and Watchful made peace and have no animosity between them. There's nothing wrong with that.
After the gospels were written believers will be saved in the time of GRACE. The bride is not appointed to wrath After the rapture those who don’t take the mark will be tribulation saints, those who make it to the end will be saved. There is Christian prosecution all in the world yes; but god will take the church out before he destroys the earth with fire. All of those examples you stated are prosecution from man and not god, that’s the difference.
Tribulation and wrath are two separate things. That's the difference.
The wrath of God is the Day of the Lord which is at the end of the tribulation
😊 I love how Craig Keener explains it.
Me too!
Keep up the great work, the truth will offend people but it’s also to heal. I’d rather hear the truth then be filled with lies. 🙏🏼⚡️💥🔥👑
The Bible doesn't lie. Rev 3;10 I will keep you from the hour of testing, not through or in, but from the hour of testing that will come upon the earth. I tell all mid and post tribbers that one of these days they will be pleasantly surprised. Maranatha!
Romans 10:17
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Romans 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Believe in Jesus and have faith in his blood.
I would also kindly suggest That you find and read the writings of the early church fathers. It came directly from St John. and see what they had to say about the Rapture.
If you believe YOU keep your salvation secure then you don’t understand the Gospel.
GOD IS LISTENING TO YOU
How do you prepare for the tribulation then???????
I cannot go to church because I get so angry. Thank you bless you.
So the young men who were spies went in and brought out Rahab and her father and her mother and her brothers and all she had; they also brought out all her relatives and placed them outside the camp of Israel.
- Joshua 6:23