Continuationism is Biblical. -People doing miracles who are not apostles proof-Luke 9:49-50, mark 9:38-41, Acts 6:8, Acts 8:6, Acts 10:45, Zecharias filled with SPIRIT prophesied in Luke 1:67 ... 5 examples. - paul said that you lack no gift until the second coming of Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Corinthians 1:7) - Peter said in Acts 2:16-21 in the end days God will pour His Spirit on His people and they will all prophecy, see visions and dreams, sun will turn dark, and moon into blood until the coming of the Day of the Lord. ((Notice how the ends days begins during acts 2 and is still going on because the Day of the Lord has not returned which also means God is still pouring out His people so they can prophecy, see dreams and visions.)) -Paul in 1 Corinthians 1 is speaking to all Christian (1Cori 1:2). And he also says that you DO NOT LACK ANY SPIRITUAL GIFT UNTIL THE DAY OF THE LORD.(1Cori 1:7-8). -Pray in SPIRIT Jude 20 But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit Ephesians 6:18 18 praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit Ephesians 5:18 18 And do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit In acts 2:4, 4:31, 10:46 when they were filled with SPIRIT they spoke in Tongues. -"Unknown tongues" accusations from cessationist debunked" - 1 Corinthians 14:2 2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries. 1 Corinthians 14:28 28 But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God. -And remember paul said in 1 Corinthians 13:2 "though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains" notice how paul says "I have all Faith" not all "Gifts of Holy Spirit''. -Ephesians 4:11 "And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers". Now if there still are Evangelists, Pastors, teachers, there also must be Apostles and Prophets. -Bible says not to neglect Gifts that is in us 1 Timothy 4:14. Bible says keeping using the Gift of Holy Spirit like a small flame that grows into fire. -There is difference between Apostles and miracles doers( Apostles do perform miracles as well) - 1 Corinthians 12:28 28 And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues.( As you can see first are Apostle and around 4th are people with Gifts of Holy Spirit, you don't have to be Apostle to do miracles). Futher proof, John 14:12 12 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. Mark 16:17-18 17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.” Mark 11:23-24 23 For assuredly, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, ‘Be removed and be cast into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that those things he says will be done, he will have whatever he says. James 5:14-15 14 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.( Notice prayer of Faith will heal the sick, not pray of Apostle) -Now my main argument ,if the New Testament says not to commit adultery and I say commit adultery then what will you call me? A heritic right, because I'm going against the New Testament. Same way the New Testament says do not forbid speaking in tongues(1 Corinthians 14:39) , not to despise prophecies (1 Thessalonians 5:20), desire Spiritual gifts(1 Corinthians 14:1), Lord Jesus Himself said that these signs will follow them that believe (mark 16:17-18),and you(cessationists) FORBID speaking in tongues, you(cessationists) despise prophecies, and you(cessationists) insult those who desire Spiritual gifts which means you(cessationists) are going against New Testament and Apostles and most importantly you are going against Lord Jesus Himself which concludes you(cessationists) are heritics. _________________________ The same Jesus which said "father take this cup away" is the same Jesus who said "ask anything in my name and I'll do it", is the same Jesus who said "if you have faith of a Mustard Seed, you can move mountains", is the same Jesus who said "23 For assuredly, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, ‘Be removed and be cast into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that those things he says will be done, he will have whatever he says. . Is the same Jesus who said "the thing that I did greater than these you'll do" is the same Jesus who said "17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”. Same Jesus who said," if you leave wealth, wife , family, in this life will get 100 folds back in the same life(mark 10:29-30)". Same Jesus who said "all things are POSSIBLE with God",. Same Jesus who said "nothing will be impossible for you(Matthew 17:20)". I hope you get the point One more thing in Isaiah 53 with forgiveness, healing is also given. And if you think that only forgiveness is given then you are wrong. Isaiah 53:5 But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; The chastisement for our peace was upon Him, And by His stripes we are healed.
This really helped me understand the Covid, DJT prophetic time period. It left me feeling confused in a lot of ways and really i thought God spoke to me that he would win as well. Sincerely thank you from my heart.
Continuationism is Biblical. -People doing miracles who are not apostles proof-Luke 9:49-50, mark 9:38-41, Acts 6:8, Acts 8:6, Acts 10:45, Zecharias filled with SPIRIT prophesied in Luke 1:67 ... 5 examples. - paul said that you lack no gift until the second coming of Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Corinthians 1:7) - Peter said in Acts 2:16-21 in the end days God will pour His Spirit on His people and they will all prophecy, see visions and dreams, sun will turn dark, and moon into blood until the coming of the Day of the Lord. ((Notice how the ends days begins during acts 2 and is still going on because the Day of the Lord has not returned which also means God is still pouring out His people so they can prophecy, see dreams and visions.)) -Paul in 1 Corinthians 1 is speaking to all Christian (1Cori 1:2). And he also says that you DO NOT LACK ANY SPIRITUAL GIFT UNTIL THE DAY OF THE LORD.(1Cori 1:7-8). -Pray in SPIRIT Jude 20 But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit Ephesians 6:18 18 praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit Ephesians 5:18 18 And do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit In acts 2:4, 4:31, 10:46 when they were filled with SPIRIT they spoke in Tongues. -"Unknown tongues" accusations from cessationist debunked" - 1 Corinthians 14:2 2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries. 1 Corinthians 14:28 28 But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God. -And remember paul said in 1 Corinthians 13:2 "though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains" notice how paul says "I have all Faith" not all "Gifts of Holy Spirit''. -Ephesians 4:11 "And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers". Now if there still are Evangelists, Pastors, teachers, there also must be Apostles and Prophets. -Bible says not to neglect Gifts that is in us 1 Timothy 4:14. Bible says keeping using the Gift of Holy Spirit like a small flame that grows into fire. -There is difference between Apostles and miracles doers( Apostles do perform miracles as well) - 1 Corinthians 12:28 28 And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues.( As you can see first are Apostle and around 4th are people with Gifts of Holy Spirit, you don't have to be Apostle to do miracles). Futher proof, John 14:12 12 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. Mark 16:17-18 17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.” Mark 11:23-24 23 For assuredly, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, ‘Be removed and be cast into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that those things he says will be done, he will have whatever he says. James 5:14-15 14 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.( Notice prayer of Faith will heal the sick, not pray of Apostle) -Now my main argument ,if the New Testament says not to commit adultery and I say commit adultery then what will you call me? A heritic right, because I'm going against the New Testament. Same way the New Testament says do not forbid speaking in tongues(1 Corinthians 14:39) , not to despise prophecies (1 Thessalonians 5:20), desire Spiritual gifts(1 Corinthians 14:1), Lord Jesus Himself said that these signs will follow them that believe (mark 16:17-18),and you(cessationists) FORBID speaking in tongues, you(cessationists) despise prophecies, and you(cessationists) insult those who desire Spiritual gifts which means you(cessationists) are going against New Testament and Apostles and most importantly you are going against Lord Jesus Himself which concludes you(cessationists) are heritics. _________________________ The same Jesus which said "father take this cup away" is the same Jesus who said "ask anything in my name and I'll do it", is the same Jesus who said "if you have faith of a Mustard Seed, you can move mountains", is the same Jesus who said "23 For assuredly, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, ‘Be removed and be cast into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that those things he says will be done, he will have whatever he says. . Is the same Jesus who said "the thing that I did greater than these you'll do" is the same Jesus who said "17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”. Same Jesus who said," if you leave wealth, wife , family, in this life will get 100 folds back in the same life(mark 10:29-30)". Same Jesus who said "all things are POSSIBLE with God",. Same Jesus who said "nothing will be impossible for you(Matthew 17:20)". I hope you get the point One more thing in Isaiah 53 with forgiveness, healing is also given. And if you think that only forgiveness is given then you are wrong. Isaiah 53:5 But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; The chastisement for our peace was upon Him, And by His stripes we are healed.
Was encouraged to hear a couple of you guys changed your position on the Agabus prophecy. The argument has never set well with me so it's one point the "Cessationist" Documentary rightly addressed.
Scripture: Rev 11. Two prophets of God prophecy 3.5 years on temple Mount until the Beast kills them. This is a future event thus the gift of prophesy has not ceased. Either we believe the scripture or we don't. Much easier to just believe these signs follow to those who believe. 1 cor 12 don't be ignorant of gifts 1 cor 14 if they want to be ignorant let them be ignorant
Very good word gentleman...I agree wholeheartedly that on the personal level prophecy is given for encouragement. The Lord has given me words concerning my family some have come to pass others I'm still waiting.😊
And we have as more sure the prophetic word, to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts. (2 Peter 1:19)
A quick query on the study that shows that the charismatic/pentecostal group who are more conservative theologically. I would have thought that those within the reformed cessationist group would be more conservative?
@@rebeccamatteson9643most of the charismatic camp Christians do pray a lot and also read the Bible,.. but most of them have a low view of God sovereignty..
Jesus open the eyes and hearts of all people to the Truth of God's Holy Word the Bible it is the Truth of God Jesus our Savior and our God Hallelujah Amen 🙏
This will be a monumental moment in the Pentecostal/charismatic movement. This documentary is pointing out a clear problem in this movement. The exploitation of spiritual gifts for at best egotistical reasons and for worst for economical gain. Stressing too much of spiritual gifts, signs, and healings corrupts the word of God at the same time believing these mystical things do not exist is at the other end of this extreme. There needs to be a balance. A balance I would argue only two churches have been able to sustain the catholic and Orthodox Church.
There are different variations of cessationism,.. some of it is false.. I'm a cessationist myself, but I believe God still does miracles, and He can use people for a specific time, purpose and for His Glory, so God can use a person to heal someone or even give word of Knowledge for a specific purpose and time.. but there are no modern Apostles and prophets today ..and this is where Charismatic is wrong.. if a person is a Prophet, he ought to be 💯 accurate everytime, there is no room for even a one error, the criteria is still the same(Deuteronomy 18:22) he is either 💯 correct everytime or he is a false prophet.. a Christian can seek and ask God for prophecy and God can use the person for a specific time and purpose specially for the edification of the Church but that person ain't a Prophet.. Here is a thought to ponder, the popular cessation camp is usually represented by God fearing people, though not perfect, eg, John MacArthur, RC Sproul, Paul Washer etc.. but when it comes to popular charismatic camp, it is usually represented by false teachers like Kenneth Copeland, Benny Hinn, Jesse duplantes , Bethel Church etc.. and Michael Brown do associate with them ,.. I respect him but when it comes to this topic and portion, he usually changes his skin and is questionable.. No doubt, God still does miracles today but this issue can be understood properly when we ponder upon are there modern Apostles and Prophets today..and how the spiritual gifts of Healing,Tongues and Prophecy were bestowed upon the Apostles/Prophets in the Bible very uniquely and how they operated it(Ephesians 2:20)..
The Trump prophecies never bothered me. I consider national words so crazy, I never pay any attention. Love the people that give them, but lol, what are you doing. It’s funny to me
Brothers, I honestly just don’t see how Trump did not win the election. To me, he clearly won. And the prophecies were very encouraging to keep praying for a less leftist America & future. When he was not allowed in office, it only paved the way for the left under Biden to show how ridiculous they are, and give us a more roaring godly success in 2024 and be delivered from an unhealthy trust in parties and politicians. So to me, the prophecies totally worked! Im sorry for this honest ridiculous opinion.
Brother, TRUMP LOST and he is evil! I continue to pray for US church because I'm seeing in American church the same that happened in Nazi Germany church.
Some people are far too concerned with appearing rational in the eyes of the world. That's why so many are blinded by the Trump thing. They fear being called "cultists." They fear looking crazy for acknowledging the obvious reality that the 2020 election was stolen and the current "president" is a usurper. They fear looking like they're putting their faith in Trump, rather than God, by acknowledging that God may be using Trump. So instead they choose to be ignorant to what is happening in the world, to what God is doing in both this nation and beyond, so that they can appear rational and not get called names or banned from TH-cam. This is my main issue with many of the Bible-Tubers; they're desire to be accepted by their peers is stronger than their desire to truly understand what is happening right now.
I saw a video saying the opposite. Justin said that he wouldn't debate Dr Brown unless he disavowed certain ppl he was associated with and other reasons.
100 percent agree with Michael Brown about the most committed Christians being Pentecostals and Charismatics because I've seen it in with my own eyes. They are the people I've personally seen put Yeshua first in all they say and do--they not only witness more, but they are also more kind and compassionate to those in need than Cessationists. All the Cessationists I've known were lukewarm and made an idol out of Sports and Politics---getting more excited about football than God
I do agree most Charismatic do pray a lot but most of them and also have a low view of God's Sovereignty.. and also they seem to be kind and soft until when we disagree and point out some errors, they do show their bad colours and start mis-quoting Pharisees, do not touch the annoint etc😅 There are different variations of cessationism,.. some of it is false.. I'm a cessationist myself, but I believe God still does miracles, and He can use people for a specific time, purpose and for His Glory, so God can use a person to heal someone or even give word of Knowledge for a specific purpose and time.. but there are no modern Apostles and prophets today ..and this is where Charismatic is wrong.. if a person is a Prophet, he ought to be 💯 accurate everytime, there is no room for even a one error, the criteria is still the same(Deuteronomy 18:22) he is either 💯 correct everytime or he is a false prophet.. a Christian can seek and ask God for prophecy and God can use the person for a specific time and purpose specially for the edification of the Church but that person ain't a Prophet.. Here is a thought to ponder, the popular cessation camp is usually represented by God fearing people, though not perfect, eg, John MacArthur, RC Sproul, Paul Washer etc.. but when it comes to popular charismatic camp, it is usually represented by false teachers like Kenneth Copeland, Benny Hinn, Jesse duplantes , Bethel Church etc.. and Michael Brown do associate with them ,.. I respect him but when it comes to this topic and portion, he usually changes his skin and is questionable.. No doubt, God still does miracles today but this issue can be understood properly when we ponder upon are there modern Apostles and Prophets today..and how the spiritual gifts of Healing,Tongues and Prophecy were bestowed upon the Apostles/Prophets in the Bible very uniquely and how they operated it(Ephesians 2:20)..
@@talisoatali9313 I hope you do know that many local assemblies in the First Church held on to Jewish teachings about the Law and considered Paul more heretical? We shouldn't base arguments on ad hominems. Cessationism is the most unbiblical concept, and is founded more on philosophy and logic rather than Scripture. Your argument about the termination of apostles and prophets is based on no iota of Scripture and merely on conjecture and philosophy.
True, when I shifted to continuationist I started reading my scripture more, and was passionate about it! Before, I struggled because it was like a chore.
@@luizcorona777Continuationism is Biblical. -People doing miracles who are not apostles proof-Luke 9:49-50, mark 9:38-41, Acts 6:8, Acts 8:6, Acts 10:45, Zecharias filled with SPIRIT prophesied in Luke 1:67 ... 5 examples. - paul said that you lack no gift until the second coming of Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Corinthians 1:7) - Peter said in Acts 2:16-21 in the end days God will pour His Spirit on His people and they will all prophecy, see visions and dreams, sun will turn dark, and moon into blood until the coming of the Day of the Lord. ((Notice how the ends days begins during acts 2 and is still going on because the Day of the Lord has not returned which also means God is still pouring out His people so they can prophecy, see dreams and visions.)) -Paul in 1 Corinthians 1 is speaking to all Christian (1Cori 1:2). And he also says that you DO NOT LACK ANY SPIRITUAL GIFT UNTIL THE DAY OF THE LORD.(1Cori 1:7-8). -Pray in SPIRIT Jude 20 But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit Ephesians 6:18 18 praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit Ephesians 5:18 18 And do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit In acts 2:4, 4:31, 10:46 when they were filled with SPIRIT they spoke in Tongues. -"Unknown tongues" accusations from cessationist debunked" - 1 Corinthians 14:2 2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries. 1 Corinthians 14:28 28 But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God. -And remember paul said in 1 Corinthians 13:2 "though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains" notice how paul says "I have all Faith" not all "Gifts of Holy Spirit''. -Ephesians 4:11 "And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers". Now if there still are Evangelists, Pastors, teachers, there also must be Apostles and Prophets. -Bible says not to neglect Gifts that is in us 1 Timothy 4:14. Bible says keeping using the Gift of Holy Spirit like a small flame that grows into fire. -There is difference between Apostles and miracles doers( Apostles do perform miracles as well) - 1 Corinthians 12:28 28 And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues.( As you can see first are Apostle and around 4th are people with Gifts of Holy Spirit, you don't have to be Apostle to do miracles). Futher proof, John 14:12 12 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. Mark 16:17-18 17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.” Mark 11:23-24 23 For assuredly, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, ‘Be removed and be cast into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that those things he says will be done, he will have whatever he says. James 5:14-15 14 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.( Notice prayer of Faith will heal the sick, not pray of Apostle) -Now my main argument ,if the New Testament says not to commit adultery and I say commit adultery then what will you call me? A heritic right, because I'm going against the New Testament. Same way the New Testament says do not forbid speaking in tongues(1 Corinthians 14:39) , not to despise prophecies (1 Thessalonians 5:20), desire Spiritual gifts(1 Corinthians 14:1), Lord Jesus Himself said that these signs will follow them that believe (mark 16:17-18),and you(cessationists) FORBID speaking in tongues, you(cessationists) despise prophecies, and you(cessationists) insult those who desire Spiritual gifts which means you(cessationists) are going against New Testament and Apostles and most importantly you are going against Lord Jesus Himself which concludes you(cessationists) are heritics. _________________________ The same Jesus which said "father take this cup away" is the same Jesus who said "ask anything in my name and I'll do it", is the same Jesus who said "if you have faith of a Mustard Seed, you can move mountains", is the same Jesus who said "23 For assuredly, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, ‘Be removed and be cast into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that those things he says will be done, he will have whatever he says. . Is the same Jesus who said "the thing that I did greater than these you'll do" is the same Jesus who said "17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”. Same Jesus who said," if you leave wealth, wife , family, in this life will get 100 folds back in the same life(mark 10:29-30)". Same Jesus who said "all things are POSSIBLE with God",. Same Jesus who said "nothing will be impossible for you(Matthew 17:20)". I hope you get the point One more thing in Isaiah 53 with forgiveness, healing is also given. And if you think that only forgiveness is given then you are wrong. Isaiah 53:5 But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; The chastisement for our peace was upon Him, And by His stripes we are healed.
Cessations are wrong. HOWEVER.... Many of them became cessationists because of the fruit loops they have seen on TV and the abuses of the gifts they have seen in local churches. There is absolutely no defense for the Bethel garbage. If you want to act like a total idiot while shaking, rolling on the floor, making animal noises, etc. that's your perogative. Just don't blame such stupidity on the Holy Spirit.
Their attitude can be summed up in the phrase---Throw the baby out with the bathwater. Because some of its bad---therefore, all of its bad, and we need to disregard all of it
@@impalaman9707there was a mention in the cessationist of how can we differentiate between all of those signs if all are of the same or slightly distinct characteristics? Not a quote but paraphrasing.
There are different variations of cessationism,.. some of it is false.. I'm a cessationist myself, but I believe God still does miracles, and He can use people for a specific time, purpose and for His Glory, so God can use a person to heal someone or even give word of Knowledge for a specific purpose and time.. but there are no modern Apostles and prophets today ..and this is where Charismatic is wrong.. if a person is a Prophet, he ought to be 💯 accurate everytime, there is no room for even a one error, the criteria is still the same(Deuteronomy 18:22) he is either 💯 correct everytime or he is a false prophet.. a Christian can seek and ask God for prophecy and God can use the person for a specific time and purpose specially for the edification of the Church but that person ain't a Prophet.. Here is a thought to ponder, the popular cessation camp is usually represented by God fearing people, though not perfect, eg, John MacArthur, RC Sproul, Paul Washer etc.. but when it comes to popular charismatic camp, it is usually represented by false teachers like Kenneth Copeland, Benny Hinn, Jesse duplantes , Bethel Church etc.. and Michael Brown do associate with them ,.. I respect him but when it comes to this topic and portion, he usually changes his skin and is questionable.. No doubt, God still does miracles today but this issue can be understood properly when we ponder upon are there modern Apostles and Prophets today..and how the spiritual gifts of Healing,Tongues and Prophecy were bestowed upon the Apostles/Prophets in the Bible very uniquely and how they operated it(Ephesians 2:20)..
Good? In what sense? Corresponding to reality? I guess that is relative to information gathering of perspectival data. Facts need interpretation. As CS Lewis noted, we need good philosophy if for no other reason than to counter 'bad' philosophy. Gossip seldom present matters as they truly are. For most people's (and groups) lives it takes more than 8 episodes to deal with the fallout of misinformation. There is coming the day where all will stand before the real Judge. Every word and secret motive will be evaluated. I believe some 'bible' teachers will fare no better than some of the 'prophets' they savaged. I find the acrimony towards charismatics is hypocritical at best, violent at worst, and the Biblical warrant for these attitudes are very thin and pretentious. A Christian should be able to be discerning without resorting to be jerks. I find it ironic that one can believe in the forgiveness of sins, yet trifle over charismatic gifts as though something more fantastic. Jesus had no problem telling the paralyzed guy He forgave sin to pickup his cot and walk. Why must we get so incensed by it? If one takes the Biblical narrative seriously, it seems to invite us to participate in Jesus' faith and works. Why should one be blamed for trying to imitate His 'way?' Isn't that the point of becoming a disciple? Faith in Jesus is surely more than an exercise in academics. I am personally persuaded a charismatic lifestyle is indeed a Biblical effect and part of the intention of God in the inscripturation of His revelation. He simply said, "follow me." And that wasn't just for the twelve. In Matthew 28:18-20, Jesus command the twelve to reproduce His style by them making "disciples" as well, and to teach these disciples to observe EVERYTHING He commanded THEM. Were they charismatic? Why wouldn't those they lead by example not be as well? Seems sound that Jesus intended that not only the twelve would practice His works, but those being discipled as well. And as far as Scripture, not all the original apostles wrote canonical Scripture, so why all this emphasis on 'sign gifts' to attest their 'authority?' They already possessed the authority of Scripture in the canonical Old Testament, which btw, was Jesus' authority, too. So whatever charismatic gifts were about, they weren't merely the stamp of 'authority.' That is an interpretation, and yet seems not to a great one due to limitations in explanatory scope. I think the better explanation is that these gifts help as an aid to faith to communicate the Presence of God the Scriptures reveal. The Scriptures are the authority, yet these charismata are aids in the communication of that authority. That is probably a larger part of the reason Jesus told the paralyzed man to pickup his cot and walk. He wanted all to know the God of Scripture has come near. The charismatic community has definitely had its share of bad actors, but so has EVERY culture and subcultures of people, regardless of noble beliefs and beginnings. That goes for non-charismatic leaning groups too. It isn't as simple as 'us' against 'them' with all the attending hubris and polemics. It is 'we' and 'I.' The Holy Spirit desires to show us the more "excellent" way of the ministry of Jesus Who mediates the Presence of God. But when He returns, will He find faith in the world?
Continuationism is Biblical. -People doing miracles who are not apostles proof-Luke 9:49-50, mark 9:38-41, Acts 6:8, Acts 8:6, Acts 10:45, Zecharias filled with SPIRIT prophesied in Luke 1:67 ... 5 examples. - paul said that you lack no gift until the second coming of Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Corinthians 1:7) - Peter said in Acts 2:16-21 in the end days God will pour His Spirit on His people and they will all prophecy, see visions and dreams, sun will turn dark, and moon into blood until the coming of the Day of the Lord. ((Notice how the ends days begins during acts 2 and is still going on because the Day of the Lord has not returned which also means God is still pouring out His people so they can prophecy, see dreams and visions.)) -Paul in 1 Corinthians 1 is speaking to all Christian (1Cori 1:2). And he also says that you DO NOT LACK ANY SPIRITUAL GIFT UNTIL THE DAY OF THE LORD.(1Cori 1:7-8). -Pray in SPIRIT Jude 20 But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit Ephesians 6:18 18 praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit Ephesians 5:18 18 And do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit In acts 2:4, 4:31, 10:46 when they were filled with SPIRIT they spoke in Tongues. -"Unknown tongues" accusations from cessationist debunked" - 1 Corinthians 14:2 2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries. 1 Corinthians 14:28 28 But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God. -And remember paul said in 1 Corinthians 13:2 "though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains" notice how paul says "I have all Faith" not all "Gifts of Holy Spirit''. -Ephesians 4:11 "And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers". Now if there still are Evangelists, Pastors, teachers, there also must be Apostles and Prophets. -Bible says not to neglect Gifts that is in us 1 Timothy 4:14. Bible says keeping using the Gift of Holy Spirit like a small flame that grows into fire. -There is difference between Apostles and miracles doers( Apostles do perform miracles as well) - 1 Corinthians 12:28 28 And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues.( As you can see first are Apostle and around 4th are people with Gifts of Holy Spirit, you don't have to be Apostle to do miracles). Futher proof, John 14:12 12 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. Mark 16:17-18 17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.” Mark 11:23-24 23 For assuredly, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, ‘Be removed and be cast into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that those things he says will be done, he will have whatever he says. James 5:14-15 14 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.( Notice prayer of Faith will heal the sick, not pray of Apostle) -Now my main argument ,if the New Testament says not to commit adultery and I say commit adultery then what will you call me? A heritic right, because I'm going against the New Testament. Same way the New Testament says do not forbid speaking in tongues(1 Corinthians 14:39) , not to despise prophecies (1 Thessalonians 5:20), desire Spiritual gifts(1 Corinthians 14:1), Lord Jesus Himself said that these signs will follow them that believe (mark 16:17-18),and you(cessationists) FORBID speaking in tongues, you(cessationists) despise prophecies, and you(cessationists) insult those who desire Spiritual gifts which means you(cessationists) are going against New Testament and Apostles and most importantly you are going against Lord Jesus Himself which concludes you(cessationists) are heritics. _________________________ The same Jesus which said "father take this cup away" is the same Jesus who said "ask anything in my name and I'll do it", is the same Jesus who said "if you have faith of a Mustard Seed, you can move mountains", is the same Jesus who said "23 For assuredly, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, ‘Be removed and be cast into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that those things he says will be done, he will have whatever he says. . Is the same Jesus who said "the thing that I did greater than these you'll do" is the same Jesus who said "17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”. Same Jesus who said," if you leave wealth, wife , family, in this life will get 100 folds back in the same life(mark 10:29-30)". Same Jesus who said "all things are POSSIBLE with God",. Same Jesus who said "nothing will be impossible for you(Matthew 17:20)". I hope you get the point One more thing in Isaiah 53 with forgiveness, healing is also given. And if you think that only forgiveness is given then you are wrong. Isaiah 53:5 But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; The chastisement for our peace was upon Him, And by His stripes we are healed.
I just wanted to thank y'all for this series. In hindsight, I grew up in a cessationist church, but really it was just never talked about. It wasn't until I got into the Word myself in more recent years that I discovered the controversy. It's been helpful hearing true continuationist arguments and interpretations. I can say now that I am a continuationist, but I'm pretty certain my current church is cessationist since it's still just not talked about. Thank you for what y'all do. It's been a helpful outlet as I've begun navigating these waters.
Great discussion! We also need to understand Biblically that I didn’t hear talked about in this is that all can operate in the gift of prophecy like Paul said desire that you prophesy. But not all are Ephesians 4 5 fold prophets. We need to remember there is also a difference in all believers just operating in the gift of Prophecy, and the Ephesians 4 office of someone who is a Prophet delivering the word of the Lord which scripture must support. But the gift and the office are Biblically not the same thing. I’m evangelist not a prophet but I can often operate in the spiritual gift of prophecy. Everyone in the body can be equipped to prophesy but the body needs to understand the gift and the office are different as well! Great talk guys amen! ❤god bless you! Amen amen we go by the word of God!
3:06 Thanks! This is where many falls into the trap of abusing the ministry office of a Prophet. They want to operate the ministry of a Prophet as tho they are manifesting the gifts of prophecy. They begin to speak to political issues, election outcome and other issues outside of the church community as if God is sending them to address such specif issues as he will inspire a Prophet to do. Thus they put a ' Thus says the Lord' in their mouth and eventually speak from their mind,their biased mind etc and are eventually prooved wrong. Bringing evil speaking and shame to the church
I have seen several of your past videos in which you discuss the gift of prophecy as you understand it. So, what follows is my understanding of what you have said not only here but in past videos. I am not attempting to misquote you or pull things out of context. So, I know you will provide your corrections. Having said all that I am still mystified at your attempts to justify your bizarre teachings and methods of personal prophecy and that prophets can get it wrong. You say God is perfect, but that the prophet gets it wrong. but I don’t see how you justify such teachings. Deut. 18: 20-23 “But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in my name that I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die. And if you say in your heart, 'How may we know the word that the Lord has not spoken?'- when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him.” The Lord takes it very seriously if you say “Thus saith the Lord” and especially when Lord didn’t thus saith! In the Old Testament the penalty was death, and you mention that. So, it is a weighty matter to presume to speak for the Lord and must be taken extremely seriously to say the least. To be a prophet of God you must score 100% anything less than that proves you are a false prophet. And worst yet you are guilty of taking the Lord’s name in vain by saying the Lord said or declared something he didn’t say!!!! Perhaps some serious contemplation should occur before one hastily speaks in the name of the Lord. To do so is a VERY solemn and consequential thing. And I never see anywhere in the Bible where a prophet said, “I think the Lord is saying...” or “I feel the Lord is trying to tell you...” or any other phrase that indicated they were unsure that the word they spoke or received was not from God. In this case the text is simple and plain. The question is how do we know if God (Yahweh) has spoken a certain thing and the answer is quite clear, if it didn’t come to pass then God didn’t speak it and thus a person is a false prophet. It is an open and shut case. In one of your videos, you use the following type of reasoning which I found from Jack Deere who you have had on your program several times and I believe is the direct or one of the direct mentors for Rowntree and Miller. Here is a quote from Jack Deere: Deut. 18, Moses said 'a prophet like me'.- a theocratic mediator - a leader of the people of God -that prophecy ultimately referred to Messiah. That’s the way they took it in the New Testament. Moses was not saying if a prophet makes a mistake, you kill 'em. He wasn't saying that at all. He's saying, the one who presumes to be like me and then tells you to go after false gods, that’s the prophet that killed, not the prophet that makes a mistake ...A prophet that makes a mistake is not a false prophet., any more than a teacher that teaches something wrong is a false teacher... (Jack Deere, NATIONAL SCHOOL OF THE PROPHETS "Mobilizing the Prophetic Office", May 11, 2000 11:30 AM tape #3) Yet Deut. 18 speaks specifically about false prophets. I have checked out some other resources on this as I do not know Hebrew, or Greek for that matter, but I have checked with some who do. And the bottom line is, IF Moses meant “theocratic mediator” or “leader of the people of God” then he would have used the Hebrew words to say so. But He didn’t!!! And neither does any scripture anywhere. Can you point to chapter and verse that shows otherwise? Again, the text of Deut. 18 is plain and simple and does not offer any qualifiers as mentioned by Jack Deere. History is my field and I know that there are times when knowing about the geography, cultural or historical background may aid our understanding of a scripture in question. But I am hard pressed to find any such reason here. Mainly because throughout scripture there are so many warnings about false prophets and false teachers. Here is another quote from Jack Deere: One of the reasons for prophets is that prophets are messy. Prophets are really messy. Prophets make mistakes; And sometimes when a prophet makes a mistake, it's a serious mistake. I mean, I know prophets just last year that cost people millions of dollars with a mistake they made (Jack Deere, NATIONAL SCHOOL OF THE PROPHETS "Mobilizing the Prophetic Office", May 11, 2000, 11:30 AM tape #3) Really? Show me texts in the Bible where God’s prophets are “messy”. Chapter and verse please. And it’s okay to cost people millions of dollars???? You also seem to reflect his teaching in that you try to make a third category for prophets who make a lot of mistakes and/or miss God. And you say God gives them the word, but they misheard it or misspoke it. Where is that in the Bible? The Bible is very plain either someone is a prophet of God, or they are a false prophet. You seem to move or speak out on feelings or is it that still small voice in a person’s head? And you encourage others to do so. That is dangerous! This is encouraging people to use the same type of methods psychics use. Because as people depart from the written word of God there is no guarantee that they are speaking or have arrived at the truth. This opens the door to deception. Perhaps this is why in 1949 during the first wave of the latter rain movement the Assemblies of God reacted and here is what they said. The resolution adopted disapproved of the following practices of the Latter Rain, and the action was made necessary as a result of the movement invading the Assembly of God churches: 1. The overemphasis relative to imparting, identifying, bestowing, or confirming of gifts by the laying on of hands and prophecy. 2. The erroneous teaching that the Church is built on the foundation of present-day apostles and prophets. 3. The extreme teaching as advocated by the “New Order,” regarding the confession of sin to man and deliverance as practiced, which claims prerogatives to human agency which belongs only to Christ. 4. The erroneous teaching concerning the impartation of the gift of languages as special equipment for missionary service. 5. The extreme and unscriptural practice of imparting or imposing personal leadings by the means of the gifts of utterance. 6. Such other wrestling's and distortions of scripture interpretations which are in opposition to teachings and practices generally accepted among us. (Anointed To Serve, William Menzies, Ph.D., Gospel Publishing House, 1971.) Notice points 1 and 5 as they speak to what you are doing, and they stood against such practices. One of your defenses is that you say we are not prophesying in a way that is contrary to scripture or heresy or adding to the Bible. True not in a direct sense of adding words. Yet, I see no scriptural justification for your practices, rather just the opposite. Consider the following. How do you handle Lev 20:27 or “Leviticus 19:26 “... You shall not interpret omens or tell fortunes.” ESV Also see Deut. 18:10 Deut. 18:14 and 1 Chron. 10:13. And what you are doing is telling fortunes. Telling people, they are going to India, China or whatever else about themselves. This is called having familiar spirits. And a good cold reader could extract much of the same information. I know cold reading and other routines and you people often do the same type of things, but you call it “prophecy”. In some of your past videos you speak of times when you had a “word” for someone, or you specifically asked for a word. The only people who received personal prophecies in the Bible where those whose lives impacted the whole nation of Israel. People such as kings, high priests, prophets and Judges. In the New Testament Paul is an example of what may be considered personal prophecy, but it was because what would happen to him would impact the whole Church!
It forever will 😂. But brother, its really important for Continuationists to defend the faith. I almost became a Cessationist because of their false heresies. Its really sad because the Bible says that anyone who causes divisions shouldn't even be considered a brother.
@@fidelamoah9115 It would be interesting to find out which group God thinks is causing "the division." Since many cessationists think we're not their brothers/sisters already, should the continuationsts start thinking of the other camp as not brothers/sisters?
@@ReLair88in Romans 16 Paul warns about people who are causing division and creating obstacles which are contrary to the doctrine which believers have been taught. It's not difficult to see which camp the vast majority of that type of activity is taking place in. And sadly Dr Brown doesn't avoid these kinds of people; he defends and excuses them.
@@ReLair88 It's really sad. But for me, not All Cessationists are "true believers". I've discerned that any Christian more concerned about "defending their dogma" rather than promoting the Gospel is an antichrist. It may sound harsh but it's truth. And it's best to pray for them.
@@fidelamoah9115 Not a real Dr Brown is a heretic who justifies other more wicked heretics like Bill Johnson or Sid roth, speak in biblical tongues was human languages only...... not this vain babbling you hear people speak.
There are different variations of cessationism,.. some of it is false.. I'm a cessationist myself, but I believe God still does miracles, and He can use people for a specific time, purpose and for His Glory, so God can use a person to heal someone or even give word of Knowledge for a specific purpose and time.. but there are no modern Apostles and prophets today ..and this is where Charismatic is wrong.. if a person is a Prophet, he ought to be 💯 accurate everytime, there is no room for even a one error, the criteria is still the same(Deuteronomy 18:22) he is either 💯 correct everytime or he is a false prophet.. a Christian can seek and ask God for prophecy and God can use the person for a specific time and purpose specially for the edification of the Church but that person ain't a Prophet.. Here is a thought to ponder, the popular cessation camp is usually represented by God fearing people, though not perfect, eg, John MacArthur, RC Sproul, Paul Washer etc.. but when it comes to popular charismatic camp, it is usually represented by false teachers like Kenneth Copeland, Benny Hinn, Jesse duplantes , Bethel Church etc.. and Michael Brown do associate with them ,.. I respect him but when it comes to this topic and portion, he usually changes his skin and is questionable.. No doubt, God still does miracles today but this issue can be understood properly when we ponder upon are there modern Apostles and Prophets today..and how the spiritual gifts of Healing,Tongues and Prophecy were bestowed upon the Apostles/Prophets in the Bible very uniquely and how they operated it(Ephesians 2:20)..
Dr Brown, you are wrong and you cannot encourage me to stay in that camp of continuationism with all the blasphemous stuff in there. Gifts or fruits? Trust in God for gifts and gain on this side of eternity? Thats not the Gospel! Apostolic signs have ceased. You are not one, neither is any of all that you associate with in your camp. Miracles and healings happen today, but not by any man, that God himself takes the glory. This is the point.
"Just say baby words as fast as you can and presto, you're speaking tongues!" Dr. Brown's pal, Sid Roth. C'mon guys, get real. Who are you pleasing by pretending to have Apostolic gifts, God or satan?
I could be wrong, but I think one of Justin Peter’s problems is he doesn’t believe the Lord will heal his disability or he’s been let down with prayer / healing prayer, which may have developed a hardness of heart towards God on this subject. Love him, but on Twitter and other platforms he sounds like a Pharisee. Idk, like I said, could be wrong but appreciate he at least looks at some of your guys’ stuff. Seeds are being planted and watered. Amen.
Katie I’ve watched a lot of Justin too and it seems like he fails to nuance people like our Remnant friends from the extreme abusers of “prophecy and healing” that really do prey on people for their own benefit. He lumps everyone together as “bad characters” and while his disdain for those abuses is correct, I think he should take a closer and more balanced look you know? You may be correct
You need to stop! If you listened to Justin Peters at all that he has full confidence that God can heal his if it is His sovereign will. Don't attack the character of a faithful servant just because he disagrees with your theology.
@@2timothy23 no one is attacking anyone, we are making an observation based on his more recent social media accusations towards those who believe and have the gifts of the spirit. And it is God’s will for us to be healed, it’s not an “if”. Psalms, Jeremiah, Hosea, James, etc.
Oh dear, you are way too wrong! Justin Peters is so grateful to God and happily so for the use God has put him to. He is a true blessing and an encourager!
@@i-jamesazubuike9208 I said I could be wrong, but what I’m referring to is he could have a hardened heart towards this particular thing, being the gifts of the spirit, not toward God overall and his relationship with Him. The gifts of the spirit are very biblically accurate and we have clear evidence of it today. He’s going off his own bias rather than seeking the Holy Spirit on this subject.
"It's inevitable that everyone will be disobedient." (Paraphrased summary of the take presented in the first clip.) What an uncharitable take! No one who claims to be mature enough to teach should be leaning on arguments like, "people could respond sinfully, so we should assume that's the only way they could respond and remove the thing entirely." I'll be waiting on these guys to be consistent and treat sex that way.
@@RachelRamey oh man. I didn't understand who you were criticizing there. Yes, agreed, it's pretty damning, not just that they have such a horrible anthropology, but such a weak view of revelation from God... that when man collides with God's truth, the truth always loses and man not only isn't changed, but automatically corrupts it. It's like Satan's fanfic of the bible.
There would be no need for these lengthy nonsensical discussions if there was evidence that miracles were actually occurring. I was a Pentecostal when I was younger. I have looked for a New Testament healing or miracle for 40 years but have never found one. Dr. Brown states that we should believe in miracles today because the Bible teaches this. Well, if the Bible teaches that miracles are occurring today, there should be evidence for it.
@@TheRemnantRadio I enjoy reading so I might check out Keener's book (though it's a bit pricy). But I have to tell you, I have researched faith healing and miracles for many decades and I have never found any evidence for it. Faith healing and miracles have been merely an intellectual phantasm designed to take advantage of gullible parishioners and fill preachers' pockets.
Can you please use the word "unpack and like " a bit more ? Do I have to "explain " it to you ?😁 Oops I mean like unpack .🤔 Good series though . Keep up the good work !!!😇
Engaging on this issue for the past few weeks has me seeing a Transcendence vs. Immanence divide. The Cessationists atr Plato and the Continuationists are Aristotle.
I am all for prophecy to edify and encourage the body of Christ and give courage for people to use their spiritual gifts. However, is there a real strong purpose for public prophecy? Predicting outcomes of elections and pandemics, etc.? I’m just not sure that there is a purpose for public prophecy, but I could be wrong. Any thoughts on this would be helpful. This is a great discussion and I appreciate it so much!
Basically the gift of Prophecy works withing the church community for the purpose of edification, exhortation and edifying. However a man who stand in the office of a Prophet can be used by God to speak to national issues, call out sin, individual politicians , Kings and give God judgement or direction. This may include whatever God wants to reveal about political issues. This is not just for propaganda or self projection as we see in Trump prophecy. Many put 'thus says the Lord' in their mouth to give prophecy from their mind, biased mind, preferences and eventually circumstances proved them wrong or as false Prophecy or even as False Prophets. Good that some of them made public repentance. What we see going on today does not glorify God, and there is no ' profiting' for the kingdom in their predictions of election outcome, football outcome etc. Gifts are delicate cos they can work even while the fellow is outside of God's will.
Also concerning prophecy is that if someone is prophesying that someone will be elected, it doesn't in itself really have any value for the people of Christ or the world, if someone Prophecies that an earthquake is going to come to a certain City then this prophecy has value, or perhaps a flood will come and we should prepare for these things then this has value, if someone is going to walk down a certain Street they should not because it is dangerous and something bad will happen to them they should bypass the street and walk around it, these Prophecies have value, but if someone's going to prophesy and say well this one will be elected instead of that one in itself who cares, it doesn't actually have any value, it doesn't do anything except oh well he was right, there many people can prophesy about the weather how is it going to rain this afternoon and it does, these kinds of Prophecies also many people prophesy on valueless prophecies which don't actually do anything for anyone except perhaps that you would boast of them of being right, but the prophet in this case is seeking after one's own notoriety, this is why Jesse Duplantis and others like him will speak of all the things that they have experienced just to notarise themselves, which in itself makes them full of themselves, and all preachers like this are false prophets illegitimate children of god their hearts hold no salvation.
Doesn't Michael Brown teach born again, regerated, Holy Spirit indwelt, justified believers can lose salvation and end up in hell? That my friends is heresy and another gospel.
@@bryce8418 How exactly does one that teaches/holds to believers losing salvation based on what they do/don't do believe that salvation is by grace through faith? Such a person rejects the biblical gospel and thinks they are co-savior with Christ. It's a gospel issue and who cares about traditions if men. What sayeth the Lord?
@@johntrevett2944 I’m with you. I believe in eternal security and reject the doctrine that’s teaches one can lose salvation… but let’s not straw man our Arminian brothers and sisters by saying they believe they’re “co-saviors” with Christ. No Arminian scholars would say that. They believe in salvation by Grace through faith.
@@bryce8418 That's because you actually believe the gospel. Arminianism gives man a reason to boast in the end. If by my cooperation with the Spirit of God I remain faithful to the end, I can boast (a little) about how I was able to stay the course and finish the race. However, there will be no boasting in heaven except to boast in the Lord. The doctrine of conditional security is not biblical; the Bible is quite clear that we persevere because God preserves us.
I have a hard time with the “election prophecies”. I dont see how that edifies the church, or points people to Jesus. Especially when its knowing something we’ll all know soon anyways. Doesn’t seem like something worthy of mentioning alongside a genuine work of the spirit.
"Especially when its knowing something we’ll all know soon anyways." so because the prophesy is confirmed relatively quickly it doesn't have merit? That's a bizarre view of prophesy.
I am a Cessationist. I left the Charismatic Movement after comparing what I saw with Scripture. Think about it. If ALL the gifts of the Holy Spirit are still in operation, then raising the dead should be as normal as speaking in tongues . In all the time I was in the Movement, I never saw one, not one person who died , raised from the dead. NONE. Just curious out of all those that died in your congregations, how many were raised from the dead? And if they were, why aren’t we seeing this on the news and glorifying our God? Why aren’t we seeing all these “fait 4:58 h healers” going into hospitals and clearing them out ?
Faith is the “evidence of things not seen,” and “comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.” Miracles come by seeing, and seeing by attending a stage performance.
Wow..blasphemy much. Many people saw Jesus do miracles and did not believe. Are you calling Jesus doing miracles a stage performance. Your heart is hardened by your pride, please repent
@davidalvarado6420 there is no evidence for it!And if you are talking about the miracles done by Benny hinn and others I honestly don't know what else to say
@@mariodebeer Benny Hinn and others like him are charlotens which Scripture warns us about which is why we are to test all things. That is part of become mature as a believer in Christ, you can tell the wolves from the sheep/undershepherds. Anyway, there is more than enough evidence for it! Scripture alone is the greatest attestation to the continuing until the comes. 1Cor 13:8-10. Church history also attests to the "apostolic/sign gifts" continuing augustine of hippo in the city of God records so many that he went from being a cessationist to a continuationist. I do not know you and do not want to sound condescending but the gifts are given for the edification of the body, for the demonstration of power with gospel evangelism, the equipping of the saints for ministry and spiritual warfare, for the unity of believers and for exalting and glorifying the name of the Lord Jesus who came to destroy the works of the devil and as His ambassadors we are to do the same being a part of His Kingdom of Light. Do not despise prophecy, nor forbid tongues (1 Cor. 14:39). Do not quench the Spirit. Do not despise prophecies, but test everything; hold fast what is good. Abstain from every form of evil (1 Thes.5:19-22). I have seen the gifts in operation in my church and myself have operated in the gift of prophecy and healing. The Spirit leads the sons and daughters of God who are humbling themselves and dependent on God. This world does not need a frozen, lukewarm or dead church. This world needs the presence of the living God working through His Spirit, people, word and creation, all pointing to HIM, Btw, I went to a an evangelistic conference where Gigi Avila was the speaker and he prayed with all who stood in faith to receive healing in their bodies and I kid you not that I was healed from two physical maladies (IBM and VD). You can call it a pyschosematic experience like many skeptics but I believe God's word is true and it clearly and plainly teaches the gifts continue until they are no longer needed which is at the 2nd coming of Christ! If you are a believer, you need to repent for your unbelief which the Spirit convicts us all of when we are not trusting God's word and continue to resist Him which then becomes very dangerous thinking we know better then God. I pray you know my heart is not to tear you down but to build you up:)
@@davidalvarado6420this is where we start to make a divide; when we say the others quench the Spirit. Have you watched the movie? I ask because they make a case why, and what we see today is misinterpretation of the scriptures. We wouldn't be honest if we say they don't believe in the power or the move of the Holy Spirit. I believe the greatest sign and wonder hopefully you would agree, is being born again through the hearing of the gospel.
You guys have given this documentary more publicity than they did. I actually want to watch it now🙋🏻♂️
The old adage---there's no such thing as bad publicity!
Bravo!! Very well done. Very constructive conversation. Very biblical and scriptural and balanced. Excellent discussion.🙌🏼
Thank you TRR and Dr Brown for your contributions to the kingdom, these are no small things
Continuationism is Biblical.
-People doing miracles who are not apostles proof-Luke 9:49-50, mark 9:38-41, Acts 6:8, Acts 8:6, Acts 10:45, Zecharias filled with SPIRIT prophesied in Luke 1:67 ... 5 examples.
- paul said that you lack no gift until the second coming of Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Corinthians 1:7)
- Peter said in Acts 2:16-21 in the end days God will pour His Spirit on His people and they will all prophecy, see visions and dreams, sun will turn dark, and moon into blood until the coming of the Day of the Lord. ((Notice how the ends days begins during acts 2 and is still going on because the Day of the Lord has not returned which also means God is still pouring out His people so they can prophecy, see dreams and visions.))
-Paul in 1 Corinthians 1 is speaking to all Christian (1Cori 1:2). And he also says that you DO NOT LACK ANY SPIRITUAL GIFT UNTIL THE DAY OF THE LORD.(1Cori 1:7-8).
-Pray in SPIRIT
Jude 20 But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit
Ephesians 6:18
18 praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit
Ephesians 5:18
18 And do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit
In acts 2:4, 4:31, 10:46 when they were filled with SPIRIT they spoke in Tongues.
-"Unknown tongues" accusations from cessationist debunked" -
1 Corinthians 14:2
2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.
1 Corinthians 14:28
28 But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God.
-And remember paul said in 1 Corinthians 13:2 "though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains" notice how paul says "I have all Faith" not all "Gifts of Holy Spirit''.
-Ephesians 4:11 "And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers". Now if there still are Evangelists, Pastors, teachers, there also must be Apostles and Prophets.
-Bible says not to neglect Gifts that is in us 1 Timothy 4:14. Bible says keeping using the Gift of Holy Spirit like a small flame that grows into fire.
-There is difference between Apostles and miracles doers( Apostles do perform miracles as well) - 1 Corinthians 12:28
28 And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues.( As you can see first are Apostle and around 4th are people with Gifts of Holy Spirit, you don't have to be Apostle to do miracles). Futher proof, John 14:12
12 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father.
Mark 16:17-18
17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”
Mark 11:23-24
23 For assuredly, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, ‘Be removed and be cast into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that those things he says will be done, he will have whatever he says.
James 5:14-15
14 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.( Notice prayer of Faith will heal the sick, not pray of Apostle)
-Now my main argument ,if the New Testament says not to commit adultery and I say commit adultery then what will you call me? A heritic right, because I'm going against the New Testament. Same way the New Testament says do not forbid speaking in tongues(1 Corinthians 14:39) , not to despise prophecies (1 Thessalonians 5:20), desire Spiritual gifts(1 Corinthians 14:1), Lord Jesus Himself said that these signs will follow them that believe (mark 16:17-18),and you(cessationists) FORBID speaking in tongues, you(cessationists) despise prophecies, and you(cessationists) insult those who desire Spiritual gifts which means you(cessationists) are going against New Testament and Apostles and most importantly you are going against Lord Jesus Himself which concludes you(cessationists) are heritics.
_________________________
The same Jesus which said "father take this cup away" is the same Jesus who said "ask anything in my name and I'll do it", is the same Jesus who said "if you have faith of a Mustard Seed, you can move mountains", is the same Jesus who said "23 For assuredly, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, ‘Be removed and be cast into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that those things he says will be done, he will have whatever he says. . Is the same Jesus who said "the thing that I did greater than these you'll do" is the same Jesus who said "17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”. Same Jesus who said," if you leave wealth, wife , family, in this life will get 100 folds back in the same life(mark 10:29-30)". Same Jesus who said "all things are POSSIBLE with God",. Same Jesus who said "nothing will be impossible for you(Matthew 17:20)". I hope you get the point
One more thing in Isaiah 53 with forgiveness, healing is also given. And if you think that only forgiveness is given then you are wrong. Isaiah 53:5 But He was wounded for our transgressions,
He was bruised for our iniquities;
The chastisement for our peace was upon Him,
And by His stripes we are healed.
This really helped me understand the Covid, DJT prophetic time period. It left me feeling confused in a lot of ways and really i thought God spoke to me that he would win as well. Sincerely thank you from my heart.
My favorite scholar and teacher on one of my favorite shows! What a treat!!! Praise God!
Continuationism is Biblical.
-People doing miracles who are not apostles proof-Luke 9:49-50, mark 9:38-41, Acts 6:8, Acts 8:6, Acts 10:45, Zecharias filled with SPIRIT prophesied in Luke 1:67 ... 5 examples.
- paul said that you lack no gift until the second coming of Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Corinthians 1:7)
- Peter said in Acts 2:16-21 in the end days God will pour His Spirit on His people and they will all prophecy, see visions and dreams, sun will turn dark, and moon into blood until the coming of the Day of the Lord. ((Notice how the ends days begins during acts 2 and is still going on because the Day of the Lord has not returned which also means God is still pouring out His people so they can prophecy, see dreams and visions.))
-Paul in 1 Corinthians 1 is speaking to all Christian (1Cori 1:2). And he also says that you DO NOT LACK ANY SPIRITUAL GIFT UNTIL THE DAY OF THE LORD.(1Cori 1:7-8).
-Pray in SPIRIT
Jude 20 But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit
Ephesians 6:18
18 praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit
Ephesians 5:18
18 And do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit
In acts 2:4, 4:31, 10:46 when they were filled with SPIRIT they spoke in Tongues.
-"Unknown tongues" accusations from cessationist debunked" -
1 Corinthians 14:2
2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.
1 Corinthians 14:28
28 But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God.
-And remember paul said in 1 Corinthians 13:2 "though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains" notice how paul says "I have all Faith" not all "Gifts of Holy Spirit''.
-Ephesians 4:11 "And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers". Now if there still are Evangelists, Pastors, teachers, there also must be Apostles and Prophets.
-Bible says not to neglect Gifts that is in us 1 Timothy 4:14. Bible says keeping using the Gift of Holy Spirit like a small flame that grows into fire.
-There is difference between Apostles and miracles doers( Apostles do perform miracles as well) - 1 Corinthians 12:28
28 And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues.( As you can see first are Apostle and around 4th are people with Gifts of Holy Spirit, you don't have to be Apostle to do miracles). Futher proof, John 14:12
12 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father.
Mark 16:17-18
17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”
Mark 11:23-24
23 For assuredly, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, ‘Be removed and be cast into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that those things he says will be done, he will have whatever he says.
James 5:14-15
14 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.( Notice prayer of Faith will heal the sick, not pray of Apostle)
-Now my main argument ,if the New Testament says not to commit adultery and I say commit adultery then what will you call me? A heritic right, because I'm going against the New Testament. Same way the New Testament says do not forbid speaking in tongues(1 Corinthians 14:39) , not to despise prophecies (1 Thessalonians 5:20), desire Spiritual gifts(1 Corinthians 14:1), Lord Jesus Himself said that these signs will follow them that believe (mark 16:17-18),and you(cessationists) FORBID speaking in tongues, you(cessationists) despise prophecies, and you(cessationists) insult those who desire Spiritual gifts which means you(cessationists) are going against New Testament and Apostles and most importantly you are going against Lord Jesus Himself which concludes you(cessationists) are heritics.
_________________________
The same Jesus which said "father take this cup away" is the same Jesus who said "ask anything in my name and I'll do it", is the same Jesus who said "if you have faith of a Mustard Seed, you can move mountains", is the same Jesus who said "23 For assuredly, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, ‘Be removed and be cast into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that those things he says will be done, he will have whatever he says. . Is the same Jesus who said "the thing that I did greater than these you'll do" is the same Jesus who said "17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”. Same Jesus who said," if you leave wealth, wife , family, in this life will get 100 folds back in the same life(mark 10:29-30)". Same Jesus who said "all things are POSSIBLE with God",. Same Jesus who said "nothing will be impossible for you(Matthew 17:20)". I hope you get the point
One more thing in Isaiah 53 with forgiveness, healing is also given. And if you think that only forgiveness is given then you are wrong. Isaiah 53:5 But He was wounded for our transgressions,
He was bruised for our iniquities;
The chastisement for our peace was upon Him,
And by His stripes we are healed.
Why you guys are not giving a prophesy for every video you make? Hopefully this will help people to understand more.
Good discussion
Was encouraged to hear a couple of you guys changed your position on the Agabus prophecy. The argument has never set well with me so it's one point the "Cessationist" Documentary rightly addressed.
Yep! 😉
What are your thoughts on the former Pentecostals that were interviewed?
Scripture: Rev 11. Two prophets of God prophecy 3.5 years on temple Mount until the Beast kills them. This is a future event thus the gift of prophesy has not ceased.
Either we believe the scripture or we don't. Much easier to just believe these signs follow to those who believe.
1 cor 12 don't be ignorant of gifts
1 cor 14 if they want to be ignorant let them be ignorant
Is this part #7 or 8? If this is #8 then I was looking for #7 cause I didn’t recall watching that one. Just don’t wanna miss one;)
Some are under the "videos" tab and some under "live" as they were filmed live like this one.
But this is #7
Did we skip part 7? Can't find it
Check both the "videos" and "live" tabs. Some are live, some in videos.
Very good word gentleman...I agree wholeheartedly that on the personal level prophecy is given for encouragement.
The Lord has given me words concerning my family some have come to pass others I'm still waiting.😊
And we have as more sure the prophetic word, to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts. (2 Peter 1:19)
Love Dr Brown. Thank you RR for having him on
A quick query on the study that shows that the charismatic/pentecostal group who are more conservative theologically. I would have thought that those within the reformed cessationist group would be more conservative?
Yes, most Reformed cessationists do hold to a high view of Scripture, but their numbers are small compared to Pentecostal/Charismatic groups.
I see your point. It’s more about the numbers.
@@rebeccamatteson9643most of the charismatic camp Christians do pray a lot and also read the Bible,.. but most of them have a low view of God sovereignty..
@@talisoatali9313false
Great episode as always
Jesus open the eyes and hearts of all people to the Truth of God's Holy Word the Bible it is the Truth of God Jesus our Savior and our God Hallelujah Amen 🙏
A brilliant film filled with facts exposing false teachings
This will be a monumental moment in the Pentecostal/charismatic movement. This documentary is pointing out a clear problem in this movement. The exploitation of spiritual gifts for at best egotistical reasons and for worst for economical gain. Stressing too much of spiritual gifts, signs, and healings corrupts the word of God at the same time believing these mystical things do not exist is at the other end of this extreme. There needs to be a balance. A balance I would argue only two churches have been able to sustain the catholic and Orthodox Church.
There are different variations of cessationism,.. some of it is false.. I'm a cessationist myself, but I believe God still does miracles, and He can use people for a specific time, purpose and for His Glory, so God can use a person to heal someone or even give word of Knowledge for a specific purpose and time.. but there are no modern Apostles and prophets today ..and this is where Charismatic is wrong.. if a person is a Prophet, he ought to be 💯 accurate everytime, there is no room for even a one error, the criteria is still the same(Deuteronomy 18:22) he is either 💯 correct everytime or he is a false prophet.. a Christian can seek and ask God for prophecy and God can use the person for a specific time and purpose specially for the edification of the Church but that person ain't a Prophet..
Here is a thought to ponder, the popular cessation camp is usually represented by God fearing people, though not perfect, eg, John MacArthur, RC Sproul, Paul Washer etc.. but when it comes to popular charismatic camp, it is usually represented by false teachers like Kenneth Copeland, Benny Hinn, Jesse duplantes , Bethel Church etc.. and Michael Brown do associate with them ,.. I respect him but when it comes to this topic and portion, he usually changes his skin and is questionable..
No doubt, God still does miracles today but this issue can be understood properly when we ponder upon are there modern Apostles and Prophets today..and how the spiritual gifts of Healing,Tongues and Prophecy were bestowed upon the Apostles/Prophets in the Bible very uniquely and how they operated it(Ephesians 2:20)..
Prophet following God's Torah = GOOD
Prophet not following God's Torah = BAD
(Deut. 13)
The Trump prophecies never bothered me. I consider national words so crazy, I never pay any attention. Love the people that give them, but lol, what are you doing. It’s funny to me
Brothers, I honestly just don’t see how Trump did not win the election. To me, he clearly won. And the prophecies were very encouraging to keep praying for a less leftist America & future. When he was not allowed in office, it only paved the way for the left under Biden to show how ridiculous they are, and give us a more roaring godly success in 2024 and be delivered from an unhealthy trust in parties and politicians. So to me, the prophecies totally worked! Im sorry for this honest ridiculous opinion.
So if Trump loses in 2024… what do we say now ?
Ridiculous it is
Brother, TRUMP LOST and he is evil! I continue to pray for US church because I'm seeing in American church the same that happened in Nazi Germany church.
Some people are far too concerned with appearing rational in the eyes of the world. That's why so many are blinded by the Trump thing. They fear being called "cultists." They fear looking crazy for acknowledging the obvious reality that the 2020 election was stolen and the current "president" is a usurper. They fear looking like they're putting their faith in Trump, rather than God, by acknowledging that God may be using Trump. So instead they choose to be ignorant to what is happening in the world, to what God is doing in both this nation and beyond, so that they can appear rational and not get called names or banned from TH-cam. This is my main issue with many of the Bible-Tubers; they're desire to be accepted by their peers is stronger than their desire to truly understand what is happening right now.
No, Biden certainly won. He may have cheated to win. History will hopefully provide clarity on that, but he won.
I saw a video with Justin Peters on it saying he invited Dr Brown to a debate or interview and he was ignored
I saw a video saying the opposite. Justin said that he wouldn't debate Dr Brown unless he disavowed certain ppl he was associated with and other reasons.
Ridiculous interpretation by a so called Bible scholar, he may seem reasonable but I feel sure he knows better.
100 percent agree with Michael Brown about the most committed Christians being Pentecostals and Charismatics because I've seen it in with my own eyes. They are the people I've personally seen put Yeshua first in all they say and do--they not only witness more, but they are also more kind and compassionate to those in need than Cessationists. All the Cessationists I've known were lukewarm and made an idol out of Sports and Politics---getting more excited about football than God
I do agree most Charismatic do pray a lot but most of them and also have a low view of God's Sovereignty.. and also they seem to be kind and soft until when we disagree and point out some errors, they do show their bad colours and start mis-quoting Pharisees, do not touch the annoint etc😅
There are different variations of cessationism,.. some of it is false.. I'm a cessationist myself, but I believe God still does miracles, and He can use people for a specific time, purpose and for His Glory, so God can use a person to heal someone or even give word of Knowledge for a specific purpose and time.. but there are no modern Apostles and prophets today ..and this is where Charismatic is wrong.. if a person is a Prophet, he ought to be 💯 accurate everytime, there is no room for even a one error, the criteria is still the same(Deuteronomy 18:22) he is either 💯 correct everytime or he is a false prophet.. a Christian can seek and ask God for prophecy and God can use the person for a specific time and purpose specially for the edification of the Church but that person ain't a Prophet..
Here is a thought to ponder, the popular cessation camp is usually represented by God fearing people, though not perfect, eg, John MacArthur, RC Sproul, Paul Washer etc.. but when it comes to popular charismatic camp, it is usually represented by false teachers like Kenneth Copeland, Benny Hinn, Jesse duplantes , Bethel Church etc.. and Michael Brown do associate with them ,.. I respect him but when it comes to this topic and portion, he usually changes his skin and is questionable..
No doubt, God still does miracles today but this issue can be understood properly when we ponder upon are there modern Apostles and Prophets today..and how the spiritual gifts of Healing,Tongues and Prophecy were bestowed upon the Apostles/Prophets in the Bible very uniquely and how they operated it(Ephesians 2:20)..
@@talisoatali9313 I hope you do know that many local assemblies in the First Church held on to Jewish teachings about the Law and considered Paul more heretical?
We shouldn't base arguments on ad hominems. Cessationism is the most unbiblical concept, and is founded more on philosophy and logic rather than Scripture.
Your argument about the termination of apostles and prophets is based on no iota of Scripture and merely on conjecture and philosophy.
You guys should go to a John MacArthur conference and talk to them
How is it not heresy to say a LIVING SPIRIT does not essentially Live in His temple and move?
It’s pretty crazy how much Dr Brown and Miller are alike. In speech and appearance! Anyone noticed that or just me?
True, when I shifted to continuationist I started reading my scripture more, and was passionate about it! Before, I struggled because it was like a chore.
It's interesting that all of these recent public "prophecies" they're talking about are classic examples of telling people what they WANT to hear.
Its eerily similar to what fortune tellers and psychics do.
@@luizcorona777Continuationism is Biblical.
-People doing miracles who are not apostles proof-Luke 9:49-50, mark 9:38-41, Acts 6:8, Acts 8:6, Acts 10:45, Zecharias filled with SPIRIT prophesied in Luke 1:67 ... 5 examples.
- paul said that you lack no gift until the second coming of Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Corinthians 1:7)
- Peter said in Acts 2:16-21 in the end days God will pour His Spirit on His people and they will all prophecy, see visions and dreams, sun will turn dark, and moon into blood until the coming of the Day of the Lord. ((Notice how the ends days begins during acts 2 and is still going on because the Day of the Lord has not returned which also means God is still pouring out His people so they can prophecy, see dreams and visions.))
-Paul in 1 Corinthians 1 is speaking to all Christian (1Cori 1:2). And he also says that you DO NOT LACK ANY SPIRITUAL GIFT UNTIL THE DAY OF THE LORD.(1Cori 1:7-8).
-Pray in SPIRIT
Jude 20 But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit
Ephesians 6:18
18 praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit
Ephesians 5:18
18 And do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit
In acts 2:4, 4:31, 10:46 when they were filled with SPIRIT they spoke in Tongues.
-"Unknown tongues" accusations from cessationist debunked" -
1 Corinthians 14:2
2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.
1 Corinthians 14:28
28 But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God.
-And remember paul said in 1 Corinthians 13:2 "though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains" notice how paul says "I have all Faith" not all "Gifts of Holy Spirit''.
-Ephesians 4:11 "And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers". Now if there still are Evangelists, Pastors, teachers, there also must be Apostles and Prophets.
-Bible says not to neglect Gifts that is in us 1 Timothy 4:14. Bible says keeping using the Gift of Holy Spirit like a small flame that grows into fire.
-There is difference between Apostles and miracles doers( Apostles do perform miracles as well) - 1 Corinthians 12:28
28 And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues.( As you can see first are Apostle and around 4th are people with Gifts of Holy Spirit, you don't have to be Apostle to do miracles). Futher proof, John 14:12
12 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father.
Mark 16:17-18
17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”
Mark 11:23-24
23 For assuredly, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, ‘Be removed and be cast into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that those things he says will be done, he will have whatever he says.
James 5:14-15
14 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.( Notice prayer of Faith will heal the sick, not pray of Apostle)
-Now my main argument ,if the New Testament says not to commit adultery and I say commit adultery then what will you call me? A heritic right, because I'm going against the New Testament. Same way the New Testament says do not forbid speaking in tongues(1 Corinthians 14:39) , not to despise prophecies (1 Thessalonians 5:20), desire Spiritual gifts(1 Corinthians 14:1), Lord Jesus Himself said that these signs will follow them that believe (mark 16:17-18),and you(cessationists) FORBID speaking in tongues, you(cessationists) despise prophecies, and you(cessationists) insult those who desire Spiritual gifts which means you(cessationists) are going against New Testament and Apostles and most importantly you are going against Lord Jesus Himself which concludes you(cessationists) are heritics.
_________________________
The same Jesus which said "father take this cup away" is the same Jesus who said "ask anything in my name and I'll do it", is the same Jesus who said "if you have faith of a Mustard Seed, you can move mountains", is the same Jesus who said "23 For assuredly, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, ‘Be removed and be cast into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that those things he says will be done, he will have whatever he says. . Is the same Jesus who said "the thing that I did greater than these you'll do" is the same Jesus who said "17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”. Same Jesus who said," if you leave wealth, wife , family, in this life will get 100 folds back in the same life(mark 10:29-30)". Same Jesus who said "all things are POSSIBLE with God",. Same Jesus who said "nothing will be impossible for you(Matthew 17:20)". I hope you get the point
One more thing in Isaiah 53 with forgiveness, healing is also given. And if you think that only forgiveness is given then you are wrong. Isaiah 53:5 But He was wounded for our transgressions,
He was bruised for our iniquities;
The chastisement for our peace was upon Him,
And by His stripes we are healed.
Cessations are wrong.
HOWEVER....
Many of them became cessationists because of the fruit loops they have seen on TV and the abuses of the gifts they have seen in local churches.
There is absolutely no defense for the Bethel garbage.
If you want to act like a total
idiot while shaking, rolling on the floor, making animal noises, etc. that's your perogative.
Just don't blame such stupidity on the Holy Spirit.
Their attitude can be summed up in the phrase---Throw the baby out with the bathwater. Because some of its bad---therefore, all of its bad, and we need to disregard all of it
@@impalaman9707there was a mention in the cessationist of how can we differentiate between all of those signs if all are of the same or slightly distinct characteristics?
Not a quote but paraphrasing.
There are different variations of cessationism,.. some of it is false.. I'm a cessationist myself, but I believe God still does miracles, and He can use people for a specific time, purpose and for His Glory, so God can use a person to heal someone or even give word of Knowledge for a specific purpose and time.. but there are no modern Apostles and prophets today ..and this is where Charismatic is wrong.. if a person is a Prophet, he ought to be 💯 accurate everytime, there is no room for even a one error, the criteria is still the same(Deuteronomy 18:22) he is either 💯 correct everytime or he is a false prophet.. a Christian can seek and ask God for prophecy and God can use the person for a specific time and purpose specially for the edification of the Church but that person ain't a Prophet..
Here is a thought to ponder, the popular cessation camp is usually represented by God fearing people, though not perfect, eg, John MacArthur, RC Sproul, Paul Washer etc.. but when it comes to popular charismatic camp, it is usually represented by false teachers like Kenneth Copeland, Benny Hinn, Jesse duplantes , Bethel Church etc.. and Michael Brown do associate with them ,.. I respect him but when it comes to this topic and portion, he usually changes his skin and is questionable..
No doubt, God still does miracles today but this issue can be understood properly when we ponder upon are there modern Apostles and Prophets today..and how the spiritual gifts of Healing,Tongues and Prophecy were bestowed upon the Apostles/Prophets in the Bible very uniquely and how they operated it(Ephesians 2:20)..
New covenant prophesy is learning to hear God's voice. That's why one should speak and others judge.
Whoa! Must have been really good if you are spending 8 episodes rebutting it. I’ll have to watch it now!
You need saved, dude. You have a counterfeit holy spirit--a religious pride demon.
I did watch it and they make a good case for it and whatever happened after the closing of the canon should be tested and called into question.
It’s pretty good about failing to actually engage with thoughtful responses. So I suppose you could glean that from the video.
Good? In what sense? Corresponding to reality? I guess that is relative to information gathering of perspectival data. Facts need interpretation. As CS Lewis noted, we need good philosophy if for no other reason than to counter 'bad' philosophy. Gossip seldom present matters as they truly are. For most people's (and groups) lives it takes more than 8 episodes to deal with the fallout of misinformation. There is coming the day where all will stand before the real Judge. Every word and secret motive will be evaluated. I believe some 'bible' teachers will fare no better than some of the 'prophets' they savaged. I find the acrimony towards charismatics is hypocritical at best, violent at worst, and the Biblical warrant for these attitudes are very thin and pretentious. A Christian should be able to be discerning without resorting to be jerks.
I find it ironic that one can believe in the forgiveness of sins, yet trifle over charismatic gifts as though something more fantastic. Jesus had no problem telling the paralyzed guy He forgave sin to pickup his cot and walk. Why must we get so incensed by it? If one takes the Biblical narrative seriously, it seems to invite us to participate in Jesus' faith and works. Why should one be blamed for trying to imitate His 'way?' Isn't that the point of becoming a disciple? Faith in Jesus is surely more than an exercise in academics. I am personally persuaded a charismatic lifestyle is indeed a Biblical effect and part of the intention of God in the inscripturation of His revelation. He simply said, "follow me." And that wasn't just for the twelve. In Matthew 28:18-20, Jesus command the twelve to reproduce His style by them making "disciples" as well, and to teach these disciples to observe EVERYTHING He commanded THEM. Were they charismatic? Why wouldn't those they lead by example not be as well? Seems sound that Jesus intended that not only the twelve would practice His works, but those being discipled as well. And as far as Scripture, not all the original apostles wrote canonical Scripture, so why all this emphasis on 'sign gifts' to attest their 'authority?' They already possessed the authority of Scripture in the canonical Old Testament, which btw, was Jesus' authority, too. So whatever charismatic gifts were about, they weren't merely the stamp of 'authority.' That is an interpretation, and yet seems not to a great one due to limitations in explanatory scope. I think the better explanation is that these gifts help as an aid to faith to communicate the Presence of God the Scriptures reveal. The Scriptures are the authority, yet these charismata are aids in the communication of that authority. That is probably a larger part of the reason Jesus told the paralyzed man to pickup his cot and walk. He wanted all to know the God of Scripture has come near.
The charismatic community has definitely had its share of bad actors, but so has EVERY culture and subcultures of people, regardless of noble beliefs and beginnings. That goes for non-charismatic leaning groups too. It isn't as simple as 'us' against 'them' with all the attending hubris and polemics. It is 'we' and 'I.' The Holy Spirit desires to show us the more "excellent" way of the ministry of Jesus Who mediates the Presence of God. But when He returns, will He find faith in the world?
Continuationism is Biblical.
-People doing miracles who are not apostles proof-Luke 9:49-50, mark 9:38-41, Acts 6:8, Acts 8:6, Acts 10:45, Zecharias filled with SPIRIT prophesied in Luke 1:67 ... 5 examples.
- paul said that you lack no gift until the second coming of Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Corinthians 1:7)
- Peter said in Acts 2:16-21 in the end days God will pour His Spirit on His people and they will all prophecy, see visions and dreams, sun will turn dark, and moon into blood until the coming of the Day of the Lord. ((Notice how the ends days begins during acts 2 and is still going on because the Day of the Lord has not returned which also means God is still pouring out His people so they can prophecy, see dreams and visions.))
-Paul in 1 Corinthians 1 is speaking to all Christian (1Cori 1:2). And he also says that you DO NOT LACK ANY SPIRITUAL GIFT UNTIL THE DAY OF THE LORD.(1Cori 1:7-8).
-Pray in SPIRIT
Jude 20 But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit
Ephesians 6:18
18 praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit
Ephesians 5:18
18 And do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit
In acts 2:4, 4:31, 10:46 when they were filled with SPIRIT they spoke in Tongues.
-"Unknown tongues" accusations from cessationist debunked" -
1 Corinthians 14:2
2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.
1 Corinthians 14:28
28 But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God.
-And remember paul said in 1 Corinthians 13:2 "though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains" notice how paul says "I have all Faith" not all "Gifts of Holy Spirit''.
-Ephesians 4:11 "And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers". Now if there still are Evangelists, Pastors, teachers, there also must be Apostles and Prophets.
-Bible says not to neglect Gifts that is in us 1 Timothy 4:14. Bible says keeping using the Gift of Holy Spirit like a small flame that grows into fire.
-There is difference between Apostles and miracles doers( Apostles do perform miracles as well) - 1 Corinthians 12:28
28 And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues.( As you can see first are Apostle and around 4th are people with Gifts of Holy Spirit, you don't have to be Apostle to do miracles). Futher proof, John 14:12
12 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father.
Mark 16:17-18
17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”
Mark 11:23-24
23 For assuredly, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, ‘Be removed and be cast into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that those things he says will be done, he will have whatever he says.
James 5:14-15
14 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.( Notice prayer of Faith will heal the sick, not pray of Apostle)
-Now my main argument ,if the New Testament says not to commit adultery and I say commit adultery then what will you call me? A heritic right, because I'm going against the New Testament. Same way the New Testament says do not forbid speaking in tongues(1 Corinthians 14:39) , not to despise prophecies (1 Thessalonians 5:20), desire Spiritual gifts(1 Corinthians 14:1), Lord Jesus Himself said that these signs will follow them that believe (mark 16:17-18),and you(cessationists) FORBID speaking in tongues, you(cessationists) despise prophecies, and you(cessationists) insult those who desire Spiritual gifts which means you(cessationists) are going against New Testament and Apostles and most importantly you are going against Lord Jesus Himself which concludes you(cessationists) are heritics.
_________________________
The same Jesus which said "father take this cup away" is the same Jesus who said "ask anything in my name and I'll do it", is the same Jesus who said "if you have faith of a Mustard Seed, you can move mountains", is the same Jesus who said "23 For assuredly, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, ‘Be removed and be cast into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that those things he says will be done, he will have whatever he says. . Is the same Jesus who said "the thing that I did greater than these you'll do" is the same Jesus who said "17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”. Same Jesus who said," if you leave wealth, wife , family, in this life will get 100 folds back in the same life(mark 10:29-30)". Same Jesus who said "all things are POSSIBLE with God",. Same Jesus who said "nothing will be impossible for you(Matthew 17:20)". I hope you get the point
One more thing in Isaiah 53 with forgiveness, healing is also given. And if you think that only forgiveness is given then you are wrong. Isaiah 53:5 But He was wounded for our transgressions,
He was bruised for our iniquities;
The chastisement for our peace was upon Him,
And by His stripes we are healed.
I just wanted to thank y'all for this series. In hindsight, I grew up in a cessationist church, but really it was just never talked about. It wasn't until I got into the Word myself in more recent years that I discovered the controversy. It's been helpful hearing true continuationist arguments and interpretations. I can say now that I am a continuationist, but I'm pretty certain my current church is cessationist since it's still just not talked about. Thank you for what y'all do. It's been a helpful outlet as I've begun navigating these waters.
AMEN WELL DONE
Great discussion! We also need to understand Biblically that I didn’t hear talked about in this is that all can operate in the gift of prophecy like Paul said desire that you prophesy. But not all are Ephesians 4 5 fold prophets. We need to remember there is also a difference in all believers just operating in the gift of Prophecy, and the Ephesians 4 office of someone who is a Prophet delivering the word of the Lord which scripture must support. But the gift and the office are Biblically not the same thing. I’m evangelist not a prophet but I can often operate in the spiritual gift of prophecy. Everyone in the body can be equipped to prophesy but the body needs to understand the gift and the office are different as well! Great talk guys amen! ❤god bless you! Amen amen we go by the word of God!
3:06 Thanks! This is where many falls into the trap of abusing the ministry office of a Prophet. They want to operate the ministry of a Prophet as tho they are manifesting the gifts of prophecy. They begin to speak to political issues, election outcome and other issues outside of the church community as if God is sending them to address such specif issues as he will inspire a Prophet to do.
Thus they put a ' Thus says the Lord' in their mouth and eventually speak from their mind,their biased mind etc and are eventually prooved wrong. Bringing evil speaking and shame to the church
I have seen several of your past videos in which you discuss the gift of prophecy as you understand it. So, what follows is my understanding of what you have said not only here but in past videos. I am not attempting to misquote you or pull things out of context. So, I know you will provide your corrections.
Having said all that I am still mystified at your attempts to justify your bizarre teachings and methods of personal prophecy and that prophets can get it wrong. You say God is perfect, but that the prophet gets it wrong. but I don’t see how you justify such teachings.
Deut. 18: 20-23 “But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in my name that I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die. And if you say in your heart, 'How may we know the word that the Lord has not spoken?'- when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him.”
The Lord takes it very seriously if you say “Thus saith the Lord” and especially when Lord didn’t thus saith! In the Old Testament the penalty was death, and you mention that. So, it is a weighty matter to presume to speak for the Lord and must be taken extremely seriously to say the least. To be a prophet of God you must score 100% anything less than that proves you are a false prophet. And worst yet you are guilty of taking the Lord’s name in vain by saying the Lord said or declared something he didn’t say!!!!
Perhaps some serious contemplation should occur before one hastily speaks in the name of the Lord. To do so is a VERY solemn and consequential thing. And I never see anywhere in the Bible where a prophet said, “I think the Lord is saying...” or “I feel the Lord is trying to tell you...” or any other phrase that indicated they were unsure that the word they spoke or received was not from God.
In this case the text is simple and plain. The question is how do we know if God (Yahweh) has spoken a certain thing and the answer is quite clear, if it didn’t come to pass then God didn’t speak it and thus a person is a false prophet. It is an open and shut case.
In one of your videos, you use the following type of reasoning which I found from Jack Deere who you have had on your program several times and I believe is the direct or one of the direct mentors for Rowntree and Miller.
Here is a quote from Jack Deere:
Deut. 18, Moses said 'a prophet like me'.- a theocratic mediator - a leader of the people of God -that prophecy ultimately referred to Messiah. That’s the way they took it in the New Testament. Moses was not saying if a prophet makes a mistake, you kill 'em. He wasn't saying that at all. He's saying, the one who presumes to be like me and then tells you to go after false gods, that’s the prophet that killed, not the prophet that makes a mistake ...A prophet that makes a mistake is not a false prophet., any more than a teacher that teaches something wrong is a false teacher... (Jack Deere, NATIONAL SCHOOL OF THE PROPHETS "Mobilizing the Prophetic Office", May 11, 2000 11:30 AM tape #3)
Yet Deut. 18 speaks specifically about false prophets. I have checked out some other resources on this as I do not know Hebrew, or Greek for that matter, but I have checked with some who do. And the bottom line is, IF Moses meant “theocratic mediator” or “leader of the people of God” then he would have used the Hebrew words to say so. But He didn’t!!! And neither does any scripture anywhere. Can you point to chapter and verse that shows otherwise?
Again, the text of Deut. 18 is plain and simple and does not offer any qualifiers as mentioned by Jack Deere.
History is my field and I know that there are times when knowing about the geography, cultural or historical background may aid our understanding of a scripture in question. But I am hard pressed to find any such reason here. Mainly because throughout scripture there are so many warnings about false prophets and false teachers.
Here is another quote from Jack Deere:
One of the reasons for prophets is that prophets are messy. Prophets are really messy. Prophets make mistakes; And sometimes when a prophet makes a mistake, it's a serious mistake. I mean, I know prophets just last year that cost people millions of dollars with a mistake they made (Jack Deere, NATIONAL SCHOOL OF THE PROPHETS "Mobilizing the Prophetic Office", May 11, 2000, 11:30 AM tape #3)
Really? Show me texts in the Bible where God’s prophets are “messy”. Chapter and verse please. And it’s okay to cost people millions of dollars????
You also seem to reflect his teaching in that you try to make a third category for prophets who make a lot of mistakes and/or miss God. And you say God gives them the word, but they misheard it or misspoke it. Where is that in the Bible? The Bible is very plain either someone is a prophet of God, or they are a false prophet.
You seem to move or speak out on feelings or is it that still small voice in a person’s head? And you encourage others to do so. That is dangerous! This is encouraging people to use the same type of methods psychics use. Because as people depart from the written word of God there is no guarantee that they are speaking or have arrived at the truth. This opens the door to deception.
Perhaps this is why in 1949 during the first wave of the latter rain movement the Assemblies of God reacted and here is what they said.
The resolution adopted disapproved of the following practices of the Latter Rain, and the action was made necessary as a result of the movement invading the Assembly of God churches: 1. The overemphasis relative to imparting, identifying, bestowing, or confirming of gifts by the laying on of hands and prophecy. 2. The erroneous teaching that the Church is built on the foundation of present-day apostles and prophets. 3. The extreme teaching as advocated by the “New Order,” regarding the confession of sin to man and deliverance as practiced, which claims prerogatives to human agency which belongs only to Christ. 4. The erroneous teaching concerning the impartation of the gift of languages as special equipment for missionary service. 5. The extreme and unscriptural practice of imparting or imposing personal leadings by the means of the gifts of utterance. 6. Such other wrestling's and distortions of scripture interpretations which are in opposition to teachings and practices generally accepted among us. (Anointed To Serve, William Menzies, Ph.D., Gospel Publishing House, 1971.)
Notice points 1 and 5 as they speak to what you are doing, and they stood against such practices.
One of your defenses is that you say we are not prophesying in a way that is contrary to scripture or heresy or adding to the Bible. True not in a direct sense of adding words. Yet, I see no scriptural justification for your practices, rather just the opposite. Consider the following.
How do you handle Lev 20:27 or “Leviticus 19:26 “... You shall not interpret omens or tell fortunes.” ESV Also see Deut. 18:10 Deut. 18:14 and 1 Chron. 10:13.
And what you are doing is telling fortunes. Telling people, they are going to India, China or whatever else about themselves. This is called having familiar spirits. And a good cold reader could extract much of the same information. I know cold reading and other routines and you people often do the same type of things, but you call it “prophecy”. In some of your past videos you speak of times when you had a “word” for someone, or you specifically asked for a word.
The only people who received personal prophecies in the Bible where those whose lives impacted the whole nation of Israel. People such as kings, high priests, prophets and Judges. In the New Testament Paul is an example of what may be considered personal prophecy, but it was because what would happen to him would impact the whole Church!
The Continuist-Cessationist War continues!
It forever will 😂. But brother, its really important for Continuationists to defend the faith. I almost became a Cessationist because of their false heresies. Its really sad because the Bible says that anyone who causes divisions shouldn't even be considered a brother.
@@fidelamoah9115 It would be interesting to find out which group God thinks is causing "the division."
Since many cessationists think we're not their brothers/sisters already, should the continuationsts start thinking of the other camp as not brothers/sisters?
@@ReLair88in Romans 16 Paul warns about people who are causing division and creating obstacles which are contrary to the doctrine which believers have been taught.
It's not difficult to see which camp the vast majority of that type of activity is taking place in.
And sadly Dr Brown doesn't avoid these kinds of people; he defends and excuses them.
@@ReLair88 It's really sad. But for me, not All Cessationists are "true believers". I've discerned that any Christian more concerned about "defending their dogma" rather than promoting the Gospel is an antichrist. It may sound harsh but it's truth. And it's best to pray for them.
@@fidelamoah9115 Not a real Dr Brown is a heretic who justifies other more wicked heretics like Bill Johnson or Sid roth, speak in biblical tongues was human languages only...... not this vain babbling you hear people speak.
Dr Brown is absolutely correct. Always best to return to Scripture and consult what Scripture actually says. Not anyone’s experience on either “side”
There are different variations of cessationism,.. some of it is false.. I'm a cessationist myself, but I believe God still does miracles, and He can use people for a specific time, purpose and for His Glory, so God can use a person to heal someone or even give word of Knowledge for a specific purpose and time.. but there are no modern Apostles and prophets today ..and this is where Charismatic is wrong.. if a person is a Prophet, he ought to be 💯 accurate everytime, there is no room for even a one error, the criteria is still the same(Deuteronomy 18:22) he is either 💯 correct everytime or he is a false prophet.. a Christian can seek and ask God for prophecy and God can use the person for a specific time and purpose specially for the edification of the Church but that person ain't a Prophet..
Here is a thought to ponder, the popular cessation camp is usually represented by God fearing people, though not perfect, eg, John MacArthur, RC Sproul, Paul Washer etc.. but when it comes to popular charismatic camp, it is usually represented by false teachers like Kenneth Copeland, Benny Hinn, Jesse duplantes , Bethel Church etc.. and Michael Brown do associate with them ,.. I respect him but when it comes to this topic and portion, he usually changes his skin and is questionable..
No doubt, God still does miracles today but this issue can be understood properly when we ponder upon are there modern Apostles and Prophets today..and how the spiritual gifts of Healing,Tongues and Prophecy were bestowed upon the Apostles/Prophets in the Bible very uniquely and how they operated it(Ephesians 2:20)..
News flash for Justin Peters: Trump won. 😉
Dr Brown, you are wrong and you cannot encourage me to stay in that camp of continuationism with all the blasphemous stuff in there. Gifts or fruits? Trust in God for gifts and gain on this side of eternity? Thats not the Gospel! Apostolic signs have ceased. You are not one, neither is any of all that you associate with in your camp. Miracles and healings happen today, but not by any man, that God himself takes the glory. This is the point.
"Just say baby words as fast as you can and presto, you're speaking tongues!" Dr. Brown's pal, Sid Roth. C'mon guys, get real. Who are you pleasing by pretending to have Apostolic gifts, God or satan?
I'm searching for scripture based christ cenetered modern prophets. People, can you recommend me some? Does Alan Didio fit this category ?
As a matter of fact all cessationist have disqualified themselves to me 37:15along with most of these public prophets
Why on earth would you have a heretic like Michael Brown on????
Please talk about Blasphemy to the Holy Spirit.
I could be wrong, but I think one of Justin Peter’s problems is he doesn’t believe the Lord will heal his disability or he’s been let down with prayer / healing prayer, which may have developed a hardness of heart towards God on this subject. Love him, but on Twitter and other platforms he sounds like a Pharisee. Idk, like I said, could be wrong but appreciate he at least looks at some of your guys’ stuff. Seeds are being planted and watered. Amen.
Katie I’ve watched a lot of Justin too and it seems like he fails to nuance people like our Remnant friends from the extreme abusers of “prophecy and healing” that really do prey on people for their own benefit. He lumps everyone together as “bad characters” and while his disdain for those abuses is correct, I think he should take a closer and more balanced look you know? You may be correct
You need to stop! If you listened to Justin Peters at all that he has full confidence that God can heal his if it is His sovereign will. Don't attack the character of a faithful servant just because he disagrees with your theology.
@@2timothy23 no one is attacking anyone, we are making an observation based on his more recent social media accusations towards those who believe and have the gifts of the spirit. And it is God’s will for us to be healed, it’s not an “if”. Psalms, Jeremiah, Hosea, James, etc.
Oh dear, you are way too wrong! Justin Peters is so grateful to God and happily so for the use God has put him to. He is a true blessing and an encourager!
@@i-jamesazubuike9208 I said I could be wrong, but what I’m referring to is he could have a hardened heart towards this particular thing, being the gifts of the spirit, not toward God overall and his relationship with Him. The gifts of the spirit are very biblically accurate and we have clear evidence of it today. He’s going off his own bias rather than seeking the Holy Spirit on this subject.
Praise God! God bless you guys
"It's inevitable that everyone will be disobedient." (Paraphrased summary of the take presented in the first clip.) What an uncharitable take! No one who claims to be mature enough to teach should be leaning on arguments like, "people could respond sinfully, so we should assume that's the only way they could respond and remove the thing entirely."
I'll be waiting on these guys to be consistent and treat sex that way.
I'll listen for it, but do you have a time stamp?
@@ravissary79 The clip? 4:38
@@RachelRamey oh man. I didn't understand who you were criticizing there. Yes, agreed, it's pretty damning, not just that they have such a horrible anthropology, but such a weak view of revelation from God... that when man collides with God's truth, the truth always loses and man not only isn't changed, but automatically corrupts it. It's like Satan's fanfic of the bible.
I cannot find Part #7. Did you skip a number?
No, check 'live' and 'video' tabs. They are all there but under the different tabs.
@@littleboots9800 I still can't identify it.
@@littleboots9800 Perhaps it is premium only?
@@jimmu2008 this is part #7. I'm now confused! Ok, #1 and #6 are under the video tab, #2, #3, #4, #5 and #7 are under the live tab. No #8 yet.
@@littleboots9800 thanks for taking the time to check. Seven or eight, that's a lot of content!
Great episode;)
There would be no need for these lengthy nonsensical discussions if there was evidence that miracles were actually occurring. I was a Pentecostal when I was younger. I have looked for a New Testament healing or miracle for 40 years but have never found one. Dr. Brown states that we should believe in miracles today because the Bible teaches this. Well, if the Bible teaches that miracles are occurring today, there should be evidence for it.
We recommend Dr. Craig Keener's book "Miracles Today." a.co/d/a0f9MlP
@@TheRemnantRadio I enjoy reading so I might check out Keener's book
(though it's a bit pricy). But I have to tell you, I have researched faith healing and miracles for many decades and I have never found any evidence for it. Faith healing and miracles have been merely an intellectual phantasm designed to take advantage of gullible parishioners and fill preachers' pockets.
Can you please use the word "unpack and like " a bit more ? Do I have to "explain " it to you ?😁 Oops I mean like unpack .🤔 Good series though . Keep up the good work !!!😇
Thank you for your video no single biblical verse which oppose prophecy was quoted by you like hebrew 1:1.
Engaging on this issue for the past few weeks has me seeing a Transcendence vs. Immanence divide. The Cessationists atr Plato and the Continuationists are Aristotle.
Why are you know practicing prophecy, let people see it still happens.
Hit film? 100 people max have seen it?
I am all for prophecy to edify and encourage the body of Christ and give courage for people to use their spiritual gifts. However, is there a real strong purpose for public prophecy? Predicting outcomes of elections and pandemics, etc.? I’m just not sure that there is a purpose for public prophecy, but I could be wrong. Any thoughts on this would be helpful. This is a great discussion and I appreciate it so much!
Basically the gift of Prophecy works withing the church community for the purpose of edification, exhortation and edifying.
However a man who stand in the office of a Prophet can be used by God to speak to national issues, call out sin, individual politicians , Kings and give God judgement or direction. This may include whatever God wants to reveal about political issues. This is not just for propaganda or self projection as we see in Trump prophecy. Many put 'thus says the Lord' in their mouth to give prophecy from their mind, biased mind, preferences and eventually circumstances proved them wrong or as false Prophecy or even as False Prophets. Good that some of them made public repentance. What we see going on today does not glorify God, and there is no ' profiting' for the kingdom in their predictions of election outcome, football outcome etc. Gifts are delicate cos they can work even while the fellow is outside of God's will.
@@olufunkeoluwatoba9322 Do you know of one person in the office of a prophet that is accurate in telling the future of the nation(s)?
Also concerning prophecy is that if someone is prophesying that someone will be elected, it doesn't in itself really have any value for the people of Christ or the world, if someone Prophecies that an earthquake is going to come to a certain City then this prophecy has value, or perhaps a flood will come and we should prepare for these things then this has value, if someone is going to walk down a certain Street they should not because it is dangerous and something bad will happen to them they should bypass the street and walk around it, these Prophecies have value, but if someone's going to prophesy and say well this one will be elected instead of that one in itself who cares, it doesn't actually have any value, it doesn't do anything except oh well he was right, there many people can prophesy about the weather how is it going to rain this afternoon and it does, these kinds of Prophecies also many people prophesy on valueless prophecies which don't actually do anything for anyone except perhaps that you would boast of them of being right, but the prophet in this case is seeking after one's own notoriety, this is why Jesse Duplantis and others like him will speak of all the things that they have experienced just to notarise themselves, which in itself makes them full of themselves, and all preachers like this are false prophets illegitimate children of god their hearts hold no salvation.
Doesn't Michael Brown teach born again, regerated, Holy Spirit indwelt, justified believers can lose salvation and end up in hell?
That my friends is heresy and another gospel.
Don’t agree with it… but not a heresy. Arminianists and Calvinists are both apart of the Christian tradition
@@bryce8418 How exactly does one that teaches/holds to believers losing salvation based on what they do/don't do believe that salvation is by grace through faith? Such a person rejects the biblical gospel and thinks they are co-savior with Christ. It's a gospel issue and who cares about traditions if men. What sayeth the Lord?
@@johntrevett2944 I’m with you. I believe in eternal security and reject the doctrine that’s teaches one can lose salvation… but let’s not straw man our Arminian brothers and sisters by saying they believe they’re “co-saviors” with Christ. No Arminian scholars would say that. They believe in salvation by Grace through faith.
@@bryce8418 That's because you actually believe the gospel. Arminianism gives man a reason to boast in the end. If by my cooperation with the Spirit of God I remain faithful to the end, I can boast (a little) about how I was able to stay the course and finish the race. However, there will be no boasting in heaven except to boast in the Lord. The doctrine of conditional security is not biblical; the Bible is quite clear that we persevere because God preserves us.
@@johntrevett2944 honest question, is it possible to be in error on certain doctrine and still be saved? Or do we need to have everything 100% right?
I have a hard time with the “election prophecies”. I dont see how that edifies the church, or points people to Jesus. Especially when its knowing something we’ll all know soon anyways. Doesn’t seem like something worthy of mentioning alongside a genuine work of the spirit.
"Especially when its knowing something we’ll all know soon anyways." so because the prophesy is confirmed relatively quickly it doesn't have merit? That's a bizarre view of prophesy.
I am a Cessationist. I left the Charismatic Movement after comparing what I saw with Scripture. Think about it. If ALL the gifts of the Holy Spirit are still in operation, then raising the dead should be as normal as speaking in tongues . In all the time I was in the Movement, I never saw one, not one person who died , raised from the dead. NONE. Just curious out of all those that died in your congregations, how many were raised from the dead? And if they were, why aren’t we seeing this on the news and glorifying our God? Why aren’t we seeing all these “fait 4:58 h healers” going into hospitals and clearing them out ?
Faith is the “evidence of things not seen,” and “comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.” Miracles come by seeing, and seeing by attending a stage performance.
Wow..blasphemy much. Many people saw Jesus do miracles and did not believe. Are you calling Jesus doing miracles a stage performance. Your heart is hardened by your pride, please repent
Cessation occurs in the burnt over ground. Miracles occur in fresh untilled ground.
Interesting comment as we see the Lord move into the un reached areas where he demonstrates his power
All the apostolic gifts have ceased!
Have they? Really?
God’s Holy Word says otherwise. These guys explained that over and over again. Please do not quench nor grieve the Spirit!
@davidalvarado6420 there is no evidence for it!And if you are talking about the miracles done by Benny hinn and others I honestly don't know what else to say
@@mariodebeer Benny Hinn and others like him are charlotens which Scripture warns us about which is why we are to test all things. That is part of become mature as a believer in Christ, you can tell the wolves from the sheep/undershepherds. Anyway, there is more than enough evidence for it! Scripture alone is the greatest attestation to the continuing until the comes. 1Cor 13:8-10. Church history also attests to the "apostolic/sign gifts" continuing augustine of hippo in the city of God records so many that he went from being a cessationist to a continuationist. I do not know you and do not want to sound condescending but the gifts are given for the edification of the body, for the demonstration of power with gospel evangelism, the equipping of the saints for ministry and spiritual warfare, for the unity of believers and for exalting and glorifying the name of the Lord Jesus who came to destroy the works of the devil and as His ambassadors we are to do the same being a part of His Kingdom of Light. Do not despise prophecy, nor forbid tongues (1 Cor. 14:39). Do not quench the Spirit. Do not despise prophecies, but test everything; hold fast what is good. Abstain from every form of evil (1 Thes.5:19-22). I have seen the gifts in operation in my church and myself have operated in the gift of prophecy and healing. The Spirit leads the sons and daughters of God who are humbling themselves and dependent on God. This world does not need a frozen, lukewarm or dead church. This world needs the presence of the living God working through His Spirit, people, word and creation, all pointing to HIM, Btw, I went to a an evangelistic conference where Gigi Avila was the speaker and he prayed with all who stood in faith to receive healing in their bodies and I kid you not that I was healed from two physical maladies (IBM and VD). You can call it a pyschosematic experience like many skeptics but I believe God's word is true and it clearly and plainly teaches the gifts continue until they are no longer needed which is at the 2nd coming of Christ! If you are a believer, you need to repent for your unbelief which the Spirit convicts us all of when we are not trusting God's word and continue to resist Him which then becomes very dangerous thinking we know better then God. I pray you know my heart is not to tear you down but to build you up:)
@@davidalvarado6420this is where we start to make a divide; when we say the others quench the Spirit.
Have you watched the movie? I ask because they make a case why, and what we see today is misinterpretation of the scriptures.
We wouldn't be honest if we say they don't believe in the power or the move of the Holy Spirit.
I believe the greatest sign and wonder hopefully you would agree, is being born again through the hearing of the gospel.