Descent: Legends of the Dark Review - A New Kind of Dungeon Crawler
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.ย. 2024
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BGG Review list - boardgamegeek....
I guess my main gripe with this game is that its release is the final nail in the coffin for 2nd ed, and now I won't be able to get any of the remaining sets I was unable to get before. That, and I liked being the overlord player.
Yes, impossible to find stuff for 2e now :(
I prefer my board games to be 100% analog with just physical components. I have nothing against the app integration if the Publisher can support it forever. Also, I spend 10+ hours a day working in front of a computer, so when I play board games I want to disconnect.
My group had a break from Gloomheaven for a couple of months because some people were away, then when we returned to it no one could remember the rules properly, and It took us long to learn it even the first time, and even then we could not agree on some rules ... so we just shelved it in frustration and never played it again.... and sadly never finished it ... so I welcome the app ...
Seeing how much of the game is handled by a machine - story elements, resource gathering, crafting, combat resolution, levelling up, proper rules reference - I think it's fair to ask the question when does a boardgame stop being a boardgame and become a videogame with a physical map... ? I don't think the review answered that with any points other than a flat "No", which is disappointing.
If the app rolled dice and tracked enemy movement, would any physical stuff be still needed?
To stretch it a bit further, would abandoning the bit where you move a piece of plastic over soem cardboard and instead giving each player a controller not lead to even more gameplay possibilities? Especially given that the cost of this is triple of something like Divinity Original SIn 2, which is an excellent 2-player dungeon crawler.
Really disappointed they don't address the price. For real, this isn't just a small detail. This is probably the most expensive retail boardgame FFG has ever released. For a channel that always was involved in social commentary, the analysis on how or why we're at this price point is severaly lacking. Review copy provided free of charge by the publisher says it all I guess.
@@blackdeath099 I'm fairly certain they mention the price a half a dozen times. Maybe more? You'll have to decide for yourself if it's "worth it"... All they can do is give their impressions and acknowledge it's various characteristics. As with all games, some will believe the price is too high. The number of hours of enjoyment could be in the hundreds for certain groups, whereas others might become bored after less than two.
@walkerbetweenworld I didn't see a "gloss over." The price was mentioned several times. The viewer and or consumer must determine the value of the game for themselves. Would you have felt better off if they made an absolute statement on value, knowing full well that the value is different for different audiences? I'm not sure that is what I want as a viewer.
I prefer what I got. An explanation of what to expect and the enjoyment they got from the game. With that, I am capable of making a decision on the value the game has to me. You are also capable.
@walkerbetweenworld the first question you want answered is "is it worth it"? Then they give you a summary of the game, components and rules and such, along with the actual price of the game. You want them to say, "it is worth IT" or "it is not worth IT" to which I would ask several questions.
What type of gamer are you?
Do you enjoy other games of this genre?
Is this an art style you prefer?
Is this game based on a subject in which you had previous interest?
How much disposable income do you have?
And on and on. I could think of 100 more questions that might help someone determine if it's "worth it" to them. As a reviewer, there's no way they can know your circumstances well enough to know if you'll find it to be "worth it".
If there are physical components you need to interact with to play, it's a tabletop/board game. If there aren't any, it's a computer game.
Great review! I'm also Minnesotan, and the Cohen brothers' Fargo is going to haunt us until the end of our days. I swear that we don't all talk like that. The state isn't a desolate icescape either!
I'm from Minnesota too, and, yeah, we actually do talk like that.
Stop telling people it is nice here - don’t want it getting too crowded.
Thanks for the review; it’s clearly deeper and more comprehensive than other reviews out there right now. What do you think of the new expansion?
I got the Aeon Flux reference. I am officially old.
Oh man, I want it, but I just can't justify the price with my limited gaming time, Frosthaven already on its way to my door, and Oath singing its siren song of "weird cool game" from the other room.
You can get the rule book and the app for free. Pencil and paper to write down character stats (found off of pics and TH-cam views) and you can play it for free.
@@furmeinvader3475 A PnP version would be funny
Re. Gloomhaven being stuck with a character and having 17 scenarios until retirement - you're able to add a new character to the party of any unlocked class levelled up to the prosperity level and play with them instead and return to your original character as and when you choose.
Maybe I'm weird, but I kind of love the art. This looks really cool!
Hey, we love the art too! All about less homogenous art in board games.
Fully agree!
But literally no one can possibly love the tile art surely…
The art has certainly grown on me. I like it now and I used to really dislike it.
@@nizmotube Tile say is fine. At least it's not cartoony crap.
0:52 can we just appreciate the fact that Elaine perfectly said Minnesota in a Minnesotan accent? Beautiful.
I’ve spent a week in Minnesota to visit my cousins and yes, the accent is spot on!
Uffda, you betcha she did.
I've missed Elaine! She's a great compliment to Efka and should be in every video hehe Great job ya'll!
Helpful review especially the bit where you briefly mention it being not-terrible to play with Younger Gamers. Cheers.
the game looks really fun, and i didn't have any of the hang-ups other folks seemed to have with this game... except the price-to-scenarios ratio. maybe that's an unfair metric by which to judge games (especially considering this one comes with a lot of fancy looking terrain stuffs), but it's one that has served me and my wallet fairly well.
just a few comparisons to other games using their msrp:
shadows of brimstone: US$120, 12 scenarios
zombicide: $100, 10 scenarios
dungeon degenerates: $80, 20 scenarios
pandemic legacy: $50, 12 scenarios
gloomhaven: $140, 90+ scenarios
jaws of the lion: $50, 24 scenarios
middara: $170, tons of scenarios
descent 2: $60, ~30 (i think?) scenarios
(i think all those prices are correct, or at least close)
and then there's descent LotD: $175, 16 scenarios. oof even at a certain online retailer, it's still US$140. that's a lot of money for not a lot of missions. even if they're quite varied and fun and lovely, the price doesn't make sense compared to many of the (very high quality) competition, and even its own predecessor, unless you *really* want a lot of cardboard terrain. obviously this is all just my opinion, and i'm certainly not saying other folks can't think D: LotD is a good deal. (i hope they do!)
i think you guys gave it a fair review and definitely made me want to play it... but only if someone else is buying lol.
thanks for the vid, cheers!
@walkerbetweenworld i too can attest to Asmodee's shoddy customer service. bought MoM2e recently and my copy didn't have one of the investigator miniatures, nor the 1st edition character pack. Asmodee/FFG told me to kick rocks. the company makes great games, but more and more it seems all they want to do is milk their customers for money, not foster a lasting relationship. definitely a shame.
Surprised you didnt mention "uses app" as chief amongst the complaints.
@@erikpeters7072 oh I have and I own Journeys. I love it. But without fail everytime an app game comess out a bunch of people complain that it uses apps. While they can just not play them.
in Brazil, this game costs R$1399,00, which is about 270 dollars, but our minimum wage is R$1100. I think this is a hard buy at this price here
In the US its $175 and minimum wage is at 7.25
You have to work 14 hours to get this game in Brazil, but in the US you have to work 24 hours with minimum wage.
So they are actually considered cheaper in Brazil.
@@because9911 in Brazil, our minimum wage is monthly, so no. You have to work 160 hours+ with minimum wage to buy this game
@@Pheryus oh i get it now sorry about that!
@@because9911 I wish that was true. As the other commenter said, that´s more than a month's work for those with minimum wage here
Great review! I really like how you two roll :) I have been waiting to see what the reviewers had to say on this game - your review is probably the best one I've seen so far - balanced, fair, and informative. Its price point in New Zealand is $320 - $350 which is a consideration but not a barrier - I pledged for the HeroQuest reprint which is a similar price - but I'm buying nostalgia with HeroQuest (I also have an OG copy of the game) as well as expansions and extras. I have been watching this game with interest - from FFG playthroughs, to comments on Facebook - its been interesting seeing how people are reacting to it. I enjoy Descent 2e and would love to see reprints of that - purely to complete my collection. I think FFG have tried something different and I think that's great - but I don't think I'm going to pick this game up - I need new socks too. Thanks again for a great review
I LOVE this game! We have been having a blast and are playing tonight!
Always interested in these kinds of games but didn't fit my playgroups well.
Spend way too much time looking at an app. Especially if there is more than one person it becomes tedious reading all the text. Solo is better but then there is setup and pack away time, Umm might go play a video game.
May have missed it in your video but other than the app comparison between this and LOTR Journeys how would you compare the overall experience, equal, better?
You can always watch our review of LOTR Journeys!
Nice to see Elaine!
I honestly though all this time that the hate bombing on BGG was because they were forcing an app on a game that previously didn't needed it.
Is the sexist hate on the game like... a thing? I'm on reddit and BGG a couple hours a day and i honestly haven't even seen that thing mentioned.
It's even the first time i even know that the designer is a woman.
You know, people aren't exactly overt about this stuff. Nobody says "I hate this game because I hate women!" No one would pay attention. Therefore it would be ridiculous to assume that everyone who dislikes the look of this game (I say look because so far so few people played it), dislikes it for nasty reasons.
But, you have to look at the disproportional amount of ire and anger at a game that seems cool and fun? Like, what's up? No one stated reason holds up because there's literally hundreds of examples in the past of these things not being issues.
@@NoPunIncluded The internet is full of anonymous sexism/racism so i don't discard the possibility. Let's not forget the incredibly stupid Frosthaven controversy.
And i know we've seen that hate in a lot of other products. We don't need to go that far, Masters of the Universe was universally hated for that exact same reason.
What i'm trying to say is that maybe for me it was more obvious in those other examples (Masters of the universe, Star Wars, etc), but i don't discard that could be a reason, even though i think that the implementation of an obligatory app on a game that didn't have one it's one of the main reasons.
I don't get the hate for the art, though. Looks amazing.
LOTR: Journeys (which is definitely a precursor to this game) is not playable without the app and is ranked #91 game of all time on BGG. Go figure.
@@NoPunIncluded Also apparently Destinies has been well received? The difference (i think) it's that Descent already had a huge fanbase.
I don't think it's a 'PEOPLE HATE APPS ON GAMES', it's more of a 'I WANT THE SAME THING' (not saying that's a good mentality).
If they made another Arcadia Quest with an obligatory app i guess the fanbase would be very vocal.
Maybe not, IDK. I don't care about apps in games, i liked Mansions of Madness, but I know i would be very pissed if the third edition of Age of Steam needed an app to be functional, giving an example of a game i consider myself a fan.
@@crushingit5128 I dunno, to me it feels pretty low brow that a bunch of guys are being very offended that they were told off for bombarding a game with negative scores. Like, who are you defending here? Overall, we made one innocuous wink and to be all up in arms about it says a lot about the response.
That was a great review with an adorable ending, although......
27:08 - oh no, no, no, this is completely not what I'm wondering about...
I'm still wondering about the answer you've been received by the designer.
25:40 - Will you please share it with us..?
Absolutely lovely artwork. Stylized, modern and expressive.
Am I crazy to bring up Egon Schiele?
@@gillcaz That's a good call!
The 2D character design is really good, very expressive, as are the minis, but the 3D terrain ... well ... not so much. I don't want to call it ugly, because that would be exagerated, but it's not good.
What I keep wanting to see addressed is my suspicion that the board game half is superfluous.
That looks to be a problem with any app-driven game sadly
Considering I just picked this up with all the promo stuff it came with and the core game for 150... The price tag for what you usually get isn't even that bad at this point at like 130.
Excited to play this soon!!
that was an absolutely great review! Thorough, balanced and honest! Great job guys!
Elaine I greatly admire your commitment to the nap bit. A real trouper.
…Elaine…El-aine? Hello? I think she’s a sleep 😴
I don’t care what anyone says, the character art and design is amazing. Touch of Hades style.
jep, i don't know why people hate on it, it's awesome.
I was really not digging it at first, now I can't get enough. Can't wait for my copy to ship. :)
I think it will be cool if they eventually tie in 2nd edition with this too. They did it with Mansions of madness.
Don't ever change FFG. Fight the status quo.
Cool review guys! One thing was not clear to me regarding the dificulty levels, do you think it was worth scalling up the dificulty, or just ended up being a slog, artificial and not worth to do so?
I think if you're used to dungeon crawlers you should start at Heroic and see how you feel.
Here in Sweden if you look at exchange rates, it costs 206 US dollars. So it's cheap in the USA lucky bastards.
yes, like Elaine, I was eyeing a dungeon crawling adventure for my kids, with tropey characters, but interesting. The app handling a lot of the upkeep helps me engage w my kid during gameplay (accounting adventure indeed!). And I really do like changing characters between missions; that's one of the things I disliked about gloomhaven.... Thanks! In the EU, I hear its late august... This game, Iberian gauge, and carcassone 20th is all my gaming budget for 2021...
Nobody prevents you from switching characters in Gloomhaven ...
"Changes in the party makeup are fine, not only for characters, but players as well".
We played an character either until we retired him or the player get bored with it and simply created a new one.
I'm curious, how old are your kids and did they enjoy the game? 😊
Thank you for the well crafted review.
I waited for reviews for after the games released. Too many prior release "reviews" put the game down with much of the criticism you mentioned about the app feeling like a game in itself.
I am interested in the game and you have helped hyped that up a bit.
I get what you are saying about prejudging a game yet this is a problem on BGG all games encounter which causes the initial rating to be off (in either direction).The Witcher Old World has over 200 reviews and is eighteen months away. Heck Arydia has been in KS less than a week and it already has almost 40 reviews. Then to later dismiss all the invested fans concerns to an *ism is down right silly.
Only 17 scenarios?? Does anyone else feel thats pretty low considering the price tag? Hm
It's an overpriced mobile game anyways.
Sounds like a great solo game. Using the app as a group to manage equipment and skills sounds terrible.
I assume you played it solo or with 2 people max?
We played all of it two player.
@@NoPunIncluded thanks for answer. Do you think playing it with 4 would change your opinion?
Not sure whether this is a board games or video games review
In your podcast you guys said the original Descent wasn't that great. I think tastes are going to vary wildly here, and it's more than just app hesitancy or price.
Don’t get me wrong, the original descent was good, but compared to more modern dungeon crawlers like gloomhaven it just feels a bit dated. I’ve played both this game and descent 2nd edition and I feel that they’re so different that it’s honestly pretty hard to compare them. That being said, I’d way rather play this game. Also, if you look at the VAST majority of negative reviews on BGG, you’ll find that it pretty much just comes down to app hesitancy and price (from people who have not played or own the game). If it were really taste, I think you’d be hearing less gushing from people who have actually played it.
@@lilpear4333 See, Id argue that both 2nd edition and this are a trend further away from a good dungeon crawl. I was hoping this one would move further away from what 2nd edition did. Instead they kept all the bad stuff and hamfisted in the app.
I hope one day they will revisit the original, find out what made it great and then innovate. Instead they keep rehashing bad systems into more streamlined bad systems
I hope that those that take the dive and try this game enjoy it as much as I have.
The review said "it doesn't just feel like a videogame" but so much of it was about how the app takes care of almost all bookkeeping, and most of the comments on the terrain and components are "they indicate something's there, but the app gives you actual information (whether it be raised terrain, a unique piece, or a creature type)."
So... what are all those extremely expensive physical components actually DOING? Even in your own review, it mostly sounds like they're just stand-ins for things that need to be confirmed in the app. The physical aspect of the game very much sounds like a companion to the app, not the other way around, and I have to wonder why that's worth $175 versus the cost of just blending the rest into the software and selling it for the price of an indie PC RPG instead.
It still looks to me like this could've or should've been a video game rather than a board game. Why does it work (better) as a board game, according to you?
@@erikpeters7072 Have you got any actual arguments, though? I'm not sure why having played Mansions or Journeys or not matters (I've played Mansions a bit).
Ah, I didn't mean just do the app, I meant make it an 'actual' video game, for on pc or console. So it would have to be more involved than just leaving out the cardboard, of course :)
Basically for games like this the fun is in planning, exploring, fighting and winning together as a team. You COULD do this with a PC game but when I sit around a table with some friends the whole experience gets another dimension, that even discord can't replace.
I think in the same way that some board game mechanics, like deck building, have been incorporated into video games, this just introduces some video game mechanics, like storytelling without a DM, into board games.
I recall the other pre-release hate for this was because it was app-driven. I see a lot of resistance to apps in board games.
I think some of it in this case is because it looks like this could be a game you play on tablet, it really does not need all the cardboard parts at all as the app does all the work other than a few dice rolls (which it clearly could do).
Ive played the first mission so far and really like it. Already feels like an improvement on the Descent 2e, Star Wars, and Journeys in Middle Earth apps. Excited to play kore
i'm so surprised how good this game is and how well the app works! Actually the best app-boardgame!!!
Review bombing and "Rating it a 10/1 to balance the 1s/10s" has been around for a while so I highly doubt it has anything to do with who the designer is and "angry men."
The discussions I've seen on forums have mostly centered around the price and the concerns of whether or not this will be a finished product per se or just an intro to more hihg price boxes in the future.
Thanks for the review. It calmed me down a bit. I didn't realize it had 16 scenarios :) Can't wait to get my copy :)
There seems to have been an agenda on the part of the early negative reviews. Most commenters on TH-cam videos have not played the game and have no idea about the positive features and gameplay. I was surprised to see Dice Tower slam the game so vehemently. I love the gameplay and the 3D terrain and the story. Terrinoth isn’t dead yet.
I think the App that plays the game was meant for Solo play…. Cause I can’t recommend using it alongside this board game when your playing with friends.
We tabled this for the first time yesterday. I picked it up secondhand for about 30% of MSRP but a scathing review from SUSD made it seem like a total bore to play to it just sat on my shelf for the last 6 months. I saw your video yesterday and we decided to give it a go. We had a fantastic time. No -it's not gloomhaven, and as someone who was utterly disappointed by gloomhaven that's fantastic. It's honestly a lot closer to what I hoped Gloomhaven would be - albeit through one quest. It's not a heavy game, but played with the right mindset there are definitely interesting tactical decisions to be made (at least on heroic difficulty - we may bump to Warfare). Given that SUSD complained heavily about the move- hit twice pattern - I'm guessing they wouldn't care much for games like Zombicide either.
The writing is simultaneously competent and terrible in the funniest way - insert Vaerix jumping into a conversation 5 minutes too late. If you want a serious dark tale with award winning novel writing, you won't find it here, but if you want to come up with ridiculous voices for each of the characters and take turns trying to voice act them all, you can have an amazingly funny time. The skill checks combine with the narrative and gear collection to really give a pretty authentic D&D-light sort of feel to everything that scratches the itch while regulating DM duties to an app so the players can focus on the game.
Despite its flaws, the app is a brilliant addition. I understand some people may have reservations but the way it handles book keeping and prevents unnecessary components like health markers is a very VERY welcome addition. I've started to loathe component overload in games, and Descent is very streamlined in that regard. It could be better if they tracked character placement in the app as well as status, but I can forgive that.
It might not crack my top 10, but it will definitely be getting more plays.
I actually do not like playing more than 1 character in my campaign games unless I absolutely have to, I much prefer to go on a journey with the same character and roleplay the adventure through her. So I am thankful this is not a common practice. I will be playing this one solo so I already thought I would be playing more than 1 character anyway, but let the game gods not hear your wish to expand this trait to other games, hush now.
Oof, the argument in the beginning about the art and its reception... was quite rough eh.
This... is surprising - but I really appreciate that you guys tackled this one!
Also, Elaine emoting over Efka's closing filled my heart.
Now I've got the game, I think I'm aware of which mission has the mechanisms which make little sense... involving runes and a Necromancer...?
totally!
@@NoPunIncluded Thought so! It's been the only 'dud' so far which is a shame as the overall side quest *idea* was interesting. Hopefully it gets fixed/ patched by FFG in an update... as weird a thing as that is to say about boardgames.
so i fail to see where the pricepoint comes from, its a bloody expensive for...3d terrain?..
I'm sure they paid a hefty price to get the app designed and built, so that would be part of the price as well. Along with the MUCH better minis included
@@NYColts18 that's nice, but the gameplay has to be on par with gloomhaven to justify that price and it just doesn't seem that way
@@abnercliff9624 Gloomhaven is so massive to introduce though and so much clatter with cards. And like she said "they are adding crafts" etc with Gloomhaven and when tried this game with the app, the thought of having all that on cards on the table instead is not a nice thought. So i think gameplay here will be better than Gloomhaven.
@@abnercliff9624 gameplay on par with Gloomhaven is subjective. I own this, and GH. To me, GH is too massive, too big, so I never even pull it out. Descent, on the other hand, I've played multiple times already. So, I feel I'm getting a much better ROI with Descent, even at the higher price.
I like the art style, just a bit more color and less darkness. Imo makes it less geecky and more mainstream. Is this better than the second edition with app?
People who still enjoy Descent 2nd edition are probably salty about FFG abandoning reprints of its expansions for ... this.
Where is the part two to Arkham if you don’t mind me asking? Are you saving it for October? In the previous video you mentioned you had played all of it and I’m eager to see the follow up. Arkham has been a wonderful experience for us but I’m holding off purchasing anything else in case it goes downhill.
But my big question is this - How does Descent: LOTD justify its price tag? Gloomhaven does it through having tonnes of stuff in the box and a campaign that takes hundreds of hours to get through (not including the random scenario generator.) Descent: LOTD seems of offer a fraction of that, and its more expensive. Just why is this one more than double the cost of Descent: JITD?
Based on this interview… Descent is more interesting and less boring…
Great review! I guess my final concern is FFG’s history of not putting much additional content for their app-based games, but this looks like a game for me.
Thanks for the review. Re: Fantasy Flight Games. Oh come on, really? Heralding a new age of gameplay for our collections? It's a bit much guys. Big fan of Imperial Assault and classic descent sounds pretty similar to the systems you laid out. The digital terrain system as explained with trees, seems like a good way to reuse assets for different scenarios, in a way that would be less elegant and efficient with separate cards. Not sold on needing a smart device to run it tho. Love they have a great undo button. Points for that.
This looks unnecessarily comprised of "fluff".
I live right by FFG in Minnesota. Thank you for mentioning us... and doing our accent. 😁
I'll be honest, it feels like when an app is this completely integrated into a board game, with tons of scripted dialogue and to the point where it looks like you're even moving your character and doing combat in the app, you might as well just go play a video game. To me the appeal of TTRPGs over video game RPGs is the improvisational potential of something like DnD that VGRPGs just can't do. If you have all that running through an app, you lose all of that flexibility, and you still have to deal with the fiddlyness and clutter of having a bunch of board game components to keep track of. I dunno. Just not for me I guess.
Journeys in middle earth is much better, all the app does is the story, map, threat, upgrades, and enemy stats. Everything else is on the board
You don’t track character movement in the app at all, and combat is a combination of out-of-app decision making (roll die, activate abilities from weapon or other cards, this is all handled with game components) and inputting the number of successes and any conditions your attack inflicts into the app. Then the app does some behind the scenes RNG for the enemy defense and determines how much damage you inflicted. Similarly, for enemy attacks, the app just shows you who is being attacked, the move/damage stats and any additional rules. You make a defense roll and activate any abilities or effects, determine the amount of damage your hero takes and register that on your health disk.
There is no “playing the game entirely on the app like a videogame” in Descent.
Well, there has always been dialogue and narration in Descent. It was just in the Rulebook and the dungeon master read it. So transferring that to the app as well as the set-up makes a lot of sense. The main thing that drives these games is planning with your companions, exploring the dungeon, bombing that minis off the table, celebrate together. Playing a game like this solo - I agree: play a video game instead.
Fantastic stuff. Would love to play but, as with many games, price tag is a bit too steep for me to punt. Thanks NPI 👍
My main curiosity, it seems much of the action happens on the app. How does that work with multiple players. Do you all have to crowd around one part of the table to read cut scenes and for every combat action? Do you pass the app and then one person looks at/interacts with it while everyone else waits to find out what happened? Ive never played mansions of madness or journeys in middle earth for context. Feels like I’d only want to play this solo but maybe I’m overestimating the importance of looking at the iPad?
Here my two cents. I play with a group of four people, and I’m fortunate to have a large TV hanging on the wall by my game table where we cast the app. I’m the only person in the group that interacts with the app, everyone else just plays and can see what’s going on via the TV. I will also add, that I feel that the players don’t even really need to see what is going on, you could just tell them. You really could put the app behind a GM screen and play it in the fashion of a table top RPG where the GM controls the game using the app and everyone else can experience the game without any screen interaction at all.
I actually think the game itself looks fun, but all that terrain stuff and multiple levels is just too fiddly for me for a game I’ll play solo.
It’s a lot of money (for me at least) for a feature that I just am not into.
I’m hoping the will do an app based adventure for the Marvel license, I think that would be cool. I think app games are pretty great for solo.
But is it really that fiddly?
@@Raddekopp yes, for him.
App assisted games reminds me of VHS board games from the 80s and 90s. What happens if the app stops being maintained by its Devs? What if the company goes out of business? What if the app gets pulled from the App stores? What happens if the medium of apps dies completely for some new thing entirely like, I dunno, chips implanted in our brains or something? Can you still play the game 30 years from now if the app no longer exists? This very question is why I decided to give away my copy of Destinies.
For me, the very appeal of board games is that they are analog and don't require technology. I play them to save my eyes from the constant screen viewing I do day-in and day-out from working at a computer, to watching tv, to reading ebooks. I gotta have an analog outlet. No apps for me, please.
Dunno, just typed in "Atmosfear" (a 30 year old VHS game) into amazon and there's a perfectly playable version for 20 moneys. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@@NoPunIncluded Well if it's re-released with a new type of media that's one thing, but I've got the same copy of Wayne's World the board game from my childhood and that VHS tape is no longer playable even if I did manage to find a VCR. lol
@@NoPunIncluded I think you're missing the point. Getting the board game isn't hard. Getting the VCR to play the tape is.They discontinued making VCRs at least five years ago.
@@shiveringchihuahua do you want to play Wayne's World the board game? Like, genuinely, is that what you want?
I can absolutely respect your opinion and desire to want analog games when you live so much of your life staring at a screen. I don't think there's anything wrong with that at all. But the first paragraph of your comment has some boilerplate "what about"isms that I've seen a lot of recently, and I have a serious question about the legitimacy of.
Do you play any legacy games? Have you had the pleasure of enjoying Pandemic Legacy Season 1? There are some truly wonderful board gaming experiences that, by design, can only be enjoyed a limited number of times. And to me, that enjoyment factor is what I'm paying for. Descent is a hefty price tag, but I'm not making an investment in the future worthiness of this game. I'm buying entertainment for today. And if I get $175 of enjoyment with friends out of this, then it really doesn't bother me if the app we to spontaneously combust in (checks calendar)... forty years.
I love Journeys in Middle Earth but because it's Middle Earth, so the theme helps me overcome some of the clunkyness. However, as you've said the App for this is an improvement on what's come before I can see myself picking this up. Thanks as always for a great review. Also I stayed for the end of the video, and I'm glad I did!
I was considering it but the price is very high...and I also don't like only app based games
But man it does look sexy
So if I already own Imperial Assault and Gloomhaven, does this game offer a different enough experience and I should look into it? I never played the original Descent and just know based on reviews and hearsay that "it is like Imperial Assault but fantasy instead of Star Wars".
It's definitely different than either of those, but if it's the kind of different that's right for you is something you have to figure out for yourself. We hope our video helps with that.
@@NoPunIncluded Thanks for the reply. I think I'll hold off from buying for now given the issues with difficulty you mention at the end (it is a big pricetag, although I certainly spent more on Imperial Assault expansions).
Have you in the past tried the Imperial Assault app, or only the "offline version"? My main worry is that IA+app already does something similar albeit worse, but not EUR160 worse.
From my own perspective, I'd say IA and Gloomhaven have you covered unless something in the review leaps out and makes you say "I want that!".
@@NoPunIncluded That’s very non-comital 🙃
Re why it is getting some hate, Ifeel this game has several barriers to entry. It's art style is not universally popular, it is expensive and it has an app which it seems to lean on heavily. Rating it without playing it is bonkers. Im not a fan of app based games but they are here and can be fun to play
Played it today at my local nerd shop and we all absolutely loved it. Can't wait for the next adventure
So, what you're saying is that i should buy the game and then complain in the comments if I don't like it? harharhar
Love the artstyle, get's me itching for a more pen and paper based system though (a rangers of shadowdeep type of game with some interesting emergent narrative elements could be cool...even if it where some kind of pen and paper/app hybrid game?)
I was literally folding the laundry while watching this, so the last part felt too real, ha!
What happens if we lose a scenario ? Do the game branch into another encounter or do we have to play the scenario again ?
Supposedly it changes the campaign in some way moving forward. Haven’t experienced a failed quest yet, though.
I am too heavily invested in Shadows of Brimstone to buy into another dungeon crawler.
..these cardboard items (trees desks doors) are the shit! Wish more board games would do that than go for expensive plastic set pieces...
About time, a sensible and well structured review. Well done 🤙
Right. I was a bit worried about the part where you say that the game is a bit perhaps to easy. Well now. 13 episodes in. I understand the joke. Well played.
It’s practically impossible on anything above normal. :/
This may be wlone of the best board game reviews I have ever watched! Smart and engaging throughout! Thank you!
Hi I just wanted to say love your videos and that they really help with my anxiety. Thanks for all the hard work you do, all the best and hope your doing well.
Hey! When is Arkham Horror The Card Game Part 2 coming out?!!? Great video!
I was impatient to see this one. I didn't plan to buy this one at all before I heard you two talking about it on your podcast. I played my first game and really enjoyed it. Thanks!
So, they took Descent 2nd Edition's Road to Legend app and fleshed it out fully? Something which turned 2nd edition Descent from being a horrible snoozefest into an enjoyable romp?
Hooray. I am glad I have this arriving in about 2 weeks time.
The B roll for this video makes the game look like a video game
I love to discover a new game (potential buy) with all the humor you include in your videos. Really enjoyed it, great job ! Cheers from France
Thanks for the great review. I'm not sure dunking on the older artists is a great look either. FFG pays like $50 an illustration so "dungeons and dishwater" isn't a great take. Not to mention, if you are making the flagship dungeon crawler (which I'd argue Descent 1st and 2nd were) going with your standard fantasy fare with some unique takes makes a lot of sense. I don't love the new art but I can get over it. I actually love the app inclusion in Descent's Road to Legend. The app inclusion here feels pretty heavy handed but I'd have to play it myself to know for sure (which hopefully I'll get a chance to at some point).
I *really* don't like not picking a character. That's a personal preference but I imagine it's a common one. The big question for me is- Does it take as long to set this game up as it seems?
Yeah, I don't even understand how that's an argument. Surely people can hate new styles and somehow love old, different styles and yet that doesn't mean they're hypocritical or have ulterior motives to dislike the new art. It's like because NPI considers the old art not that great somehow everyone else has to agree, and even if that were the case, again, why would that make the criticism for the current art, which is a drastic shift from previous iterations, invalid?
The app has an undo button?
Regretting canceling my preorder
That is just bare minimum, journeys and mansions should have had undo buttons
I won’t lie, I felt like ffg used past games as a way to learn how to refine their apps for this game. That won’t stop me from enjoying journeys in middle earth though.
I wasted a lot of time reading and watching reviews for journeys in middle earth the last few weeks. People seem to either love it or hate it with a passion...
@@Sh0cklyz if you like lord of the rings and have friends that enjoy board games you’ll have a good time with it
@@dustinchilds2378 I'm worried about the time limit in missions...
@@Sh0cklyz you can play on adventure mode and it’s not even an issue, though the game is way too easy on that mode. But in normal mode it’s not as bad as it seems. If you do lose to the time limit it’s a good excuse to play again anyway.
@@dustinchilds2378 thanks for your replies. Maybe I'll give it a shot :) i want that lotr game 😂
It's not a mystery: insanely high price, controversial art style, changing the mechanics of an established series, and requiring an app to play. Any one of these would have caused a bunch of automatic 1's from people who didn't play the game.
Exactly this wouldn't be a huge issue if a) it didn't have the descent name and b) it was more along the lines of 110-125 dollars
Plus the terrible marketing.
Best post-credits scene ever.
This is hands down the best review of Descent I've seen. Not because you liked the game. But because you were fair and funny 😄 cheers
Minnesota Represent!
Still didn’t see a distinct reason to have 3d terrain in this game. This is two reviews now(by different channels) that didn’t talk about how the 3D terrain impacts gameplay.
This is a very, very good review not just because I needed a little confirmation bias after watching Tom Vassals Dice tower review but because its super thorough. I bought this game without even hesitating because I love dungeon crawlers, fantasy flight and app driven games. I like games essentially. But when I heard this was mansions of madness meets journeys in middle earth with a much more developed app I was pretty much "Yes please". I haven't played the game yet its still sitting on my shelf but my wife and I are very stoked after watching your review and washing away that Dice Tower review taste ie; tell me what i want to hear. Thank you. I am little discouraged by that bit surrounding the rules at the end. It's all small potatoes to me I look forward to playing thanks again for the review. PS: I like the art alot I dont get the haters at all on that.
The tone in this one was a lot more patronizing than I expected.
Why does it feel like a paid review exactly?
No joke, I finished washing out my sink right before I watched this. Loved the review, and very excited to play it!
And that’s the power of journalism
I haven't played the game, but if it's even half as fun as this video, it's a win. :p
It's nice when the algorithm actually recommends something good for me.
How about the setup time?
Too much app integration in this game. They could just make it video game
Wait - what's wrong with living rulebooks?
Thanks, this game was a bit confusing to run through with my sons
It looks cool for sure and don’t really care here or there for the app - but for $180 I can’t see buying it to basically pay for the development of said app and with 3D printing options out there and how phenomenal it’s become, cardboard paper terrain seems like a beginning tier in a Kickstarter project rather than an all-in idea.