I still have my LP12 (same model as this), bought new in 1975. Apart from a few drive belts, I have done nothing to it and it still works and looks like it always did.
And that is fine. It is a faithful friend and that's cool. My point of the video was to caution folks about the trials and tribulations about attempted upgrades.
@@audibleeleganceinc I think the main thing is that I rarely move it and always treat it gently. Same with the original SME 3009 arm I fitted to it when I bought it.
@@naradaian Likewise , I bought my Gyrodec brand new in the late 90s , and transplanted my SME Series III over from my Transcriptor Hydraulic Reference . I have subsequently upgraded to a Rega RB700 arm and bought the Gyropower QC power supply , which was an expensive extra when the deck was new ( so I waited to do it and used the power supply that came with the deck to begin with ) . Other than that , I have replaced the drive belt two or three times , and have replaced my Audio Technica AT-OC9 a couple of times when I felt the stylus was due for replacement ( roughly every 10 years ; I don't keep track of the hours , but my record collection is worth more than my equipment so a new cartridge every so often is a good investment , just as it was last year having my Quad Electrostatic loudspeakers rebuilt because one of them started making strange noises ) . As for the turntable ; it has been dismantled and put carefully away in its original box three times when I have moved house , then carefully set back up in its new location with fresh oil put in the bearing at that time ( I use 3-in-one light machine oil ) only because it seemed prudent to do so . Once set up , the turntable is just used and enjoyed . There are some who fiddle and fidget with hi-fi equipment , but once it is properly set up , the best place to be is just to use it and enjoy your music .
I am old enough to remember when the LP12 first appeared during a crazy time of hi-fi snobbery in the UK and elsewhere. Some dealers refused to sell various separates unless one was going to pair them with what said MUST BE. Although I owned an LP12 and other Linn products off and on I was never sucked into the reverence cult which Linn encouraged, even if management did not originate it. Besides, the LP12 was actually copied from another manufacturer but I did and still do concede that they were mostly quite well put together and had good platters. The suspension mechanism was over complicated for what it was and the less expensive Thorens mechanism was generally superior and not subject to the misalignment shown here because there were wedges to use as a simple means of protecting it during transport. Linn could have done a lot more to avoid problems but the rigidity of earlier case work did not allow for a Thorens solution. Linn woodwork was also prone to warping over a few years, even in the temperate climate of the UK and this might have been down to humidity. Thorens tended to use semi-wood and when Rega came into being the design principles obviated the issues shown here. For me (apart from silly names and silly prices) the Linn was let down by puny motors and "dirty" power feed which could affect speed and resonance the same as with any belt drive, although Linn made improvements -- again with silly names. During occasional work with BBC classical musical programmes, I saw few Linn turntables in use, if any. Lenco turntables with variable speed and EMT customized decks were most used and even Garrards for some records but Technics SP and SL 10s changed BBC vinyl usage profoundly as these expensive precision direct drive turntables were robust, silent, adjustable and saved a lot in maintenance costs. The belt vs direct drive argument will persist and is as boring now as it was 40 years ago.
Thank you for your robust comments and I find them fair from a user's point of view. In fact, the Thorens suspension, which predated the Linn, used many of the same parts as Linn adopted right down to the springs and grommets. I know, I have parted enough Thorens out. What Linn did was to make, in a sense, a more robust Thorens. Where Linn took it further was the intense training on how to get the best out of a Linn whereas Thorens were sold as a turnkey product with little care by the dealers, at least here in the States. The direct drive tables were ideal for radio as with the use of a cartridge like Stanton, one could back-cue and have a start up time in a quarter of a revolution. Ergo, no dead air time or, at least greatly minimized. Keep in mind that for many years, contrary to popular belief, many commercial radio stations used carts (cartridges, i.e. 8 track or similiar.) As for their other products, well, I will leave you with a funny. What Hi-Fi held annual awards for best products and, well, one for the worst product. After the falling out between Linn and Naim, LInn created a tuner called the Kremlin. Quite expensive. It was awarded the Worst Product of the Year. Obviously, no one from Linn was in attendance when the award was given. However, when announced, Julian Vereker of Naim stood up and said "On behalf of my friend Ivor, I will accept the award" The room howled in laughter. Years later when Julian died, however, Ivor wrote a most beautiful eulogy about Mr. Verreker. It was classic all the way. Covered two pages in a magazine, as I recall. As for the "cult", well, I was never much part of that but for many, discovering that one could understand musical differences in musical terms was an awakening. In that sense, they became apostles that felt that their mission was to address a great many misconceptions about hi-fi and, in many ways, they were correct. The failing became that they could not accept that others were also addressing misconceptions albeit in different ways. At the dealer level, here in the states, cults are less common but are often based around a couple of magazines as if they speak the gospel. Sadly, many solid principles of hi-fi have been lost in the current time and market as can be seen with $69 turntables from Amazon. Nuff said.
Oh, and yes I have had a few comments from the cult that I actually had to mute. If one is not going to contribute and move the conversation forward, but, rather merely bicker, then save it for someone else. I don't have much patience for that. I have grown very tired of those who can only criticize and destroy while failing to build. We have a serious problem with that in the States.
Yep , I'm of a similar age ( now 66 ) and along with my schoolfriends got the hi-fi bug in my early to mid teens . After selling my train set , I started out with a Pioneer PL12D turntable , Shure M75EDII cartridge , Sony amplifier and a pair of Hitachi Speakers , which were soon upgraded to a pair of KEFKIT 3s . Around this time , while still 15 or 16 , I got a Saturday job in a hi-fi shop - getting paid , albeit not much , for playing with all the kit I lusted over . While the shop did sell a lot of jap stuff , including Pioneer , Sony , Technics , Yamaha and others , we also had a lot of British kit , and from the basic end we had the inexpensive Connosseur turntables , there was the BD12 and i can't remember the other one , which came as kits , then Garrard , Lenco , Dual , before we got to Thorens and Linn . I can still remember when an LP 12 retailed for £82 ( yes eighty two pounds ) . Alongside Linn , being based here in Scotland , we also had the other home grown decks very similar to the LP12 , including the Fons CQ30 , Systemdeck , STD ( Strathclyde Transducer Developments , which I think was the one that got into a legal dispute with Linn over whichever one of them had ripped off the design from the other ) ... we also stocked the AR turntable , which was very good value for money , and we started selling Transcriptors , just about the time they were sold to Michell Engineering . On the electronics side , we sold Quad , Sugden , Radford , A&R Cambridge ( who became ARCAM ) , Rogers , Lecson , then Meridian ( which also came from Boothroyd Stuart ) , oh and NAIM as well ; for loudspeakers there were far too many British loudspeakers to name , but I liked KEF , B&W , IMF , Monitor Audio , Celef , Rogers and of course Quad when they only made the original ESLs . We sold a lot of cassette decks , mainly from the japanese brands , the best of which were Nakamichi , although we did sell NEAL decks which were very good , plus open reel machines from the likes of Sony , Teac , Ferrograph and Revox . I'm sorry to say we also sold Bang and Olufsen , which appealed to certain people . All of this was before the whole 'musicality' debate was kicked off by Russ Andrews in Edinburgh , in fact being based in Central Scotland , I got to know most of the people in the industry , both locally , and nationally , thanks to going to most of the trade shows as a member of staff . I'd had my PL12D for about 18 months when a colleague who was hard up needed to sell his Transcriptor Hydraulic Reference turntable , so I grabbed it for a bargain price , and sold my PL12D to a colleague . I was delighted with it , although I changed the unipivot arm for an SME Series 3 when it came out . Kept that turntable for a good many years then upgraded to the Gyrodec , but not before I'd had an LP12 home for a few weeks ; I'd never been trained to set it up - but I had had the process described to me - however it was the shop demo model which had apparently been set up , so to transport it home I simply removed the main platter and put a couple of pieces of foam under the sub platter to avoid damage while I drove home very carefully with it on the back seat . TBH , I wasn't all that impressed with the sound , so I bought the Gyrodec instead , and it came with comprehensive instructions how to balance and set up the suspension . I bought the Gyro with the SME plate and put my Series 3 onto it initially , then put the old unipivot back onto the Hydraulic Ref before giving it away to a friend for nothing - these now command stupid prices , but that was the dawn of the CD era and turntables were worth nothing . I still have the gyro , now with a Rega RB700 and an AT-OC9 , I've changed the belt a few times over the years , moved house a couple of times with it always stripped down and put back in the original box . It is again in my living room , sounding good and giving a lot of pleasure . As for other items , I got to like Quad hi-fi and had a 33/405 before getting into AV and surround sound , but then I tired of that and went back to my roots , so I again have a nice Quad system with the 77pre , 77CD , 77FM and 707 power amp , into the ESL 63 loudspeakers , and I just took those down to Huntingdon last year for a full rebuild with all new panels back to as new . I'd previously had KEFs , B&Ws and IMF transmission lines , all of which were great , apart from the lady of the house said the TLS80s on their stands were too big ! I now won't buy another set of loudspeakers because the ESL 63s just have a way of filling a room with music , in a way that no other loudspeakers can , and without drawing any attention to themselves . Since I do a bit of recording , and work in live sound , photography and video production ; I also used to do a lot with tape and had five Revoxes at one point , now just two , as well as a Uher 4200 and a few cassette decks . These days I still have two Nakamichi 700s and plan to restore one of them , as well as a Technics RS279 ! I'm not yet retired , but when I do , I will have plenty of audio restoration projects to keep me busy .
@@audibleeleganceinc Further to 'the Cult' , is it not a bit similar to the one that has grown up around Apple products ( and I admit to being an Apple user myself ) .
@@derekheeps8012 So, if a mechanic uses the right tools, that's a cult too? Wow, there are more cults than I imagined or you are particularly good at "seeing them." Do you sleep well at night? Having used Apple in the early days was not a cult. It was that the machines were superior in both productivity and security. Not until System 10 came along was the security of the Apple operating system a simple consideration. That's no longer true and I use Windows quite a bit today.
I think it would be a good idea to plug the bearing and cover the bearing spindle to protect it from swarfe / dust contamination from the sanding procedure. It's also, I believe, not a good idea to have black oil in conjunction with the early white nylon topped bearing as it causes swelling and partial seizure. Hope this helps!
Oh, I think you are overstating the case. I was 8 to 10 inches back from the rear of the deck and not over the bearing well. Cameras can be a bit funny in perspective. Good suggestion, and noted. As for the oil, whatever the customer or prior owner did before he brought it in is exactly the way it left. We never charged this bearing well. There were a lot of things this table needed but all was declined. This is quite common when someone buys a used table and then brings it to us. I could tell lots of stories about what we have found tacked on the underside of platters, plinths, you name it.
Early Linns lacked corner wedges so the plinths became distorted over time. When my 1983 Linn was updated to Linn Cirkus spec in the 1990s the plinth was the first to go. In fact, there's very little left of the original. Great video - I'm surprised that you can get mail order Linns in the USA. That's impossible in the UK - same for Rega Planar 3s and above.
Thank you for your excellent comments, particularly about the original Linn LP12 base (plinth). As for the means of product distribution, yes, indeed, it is a complete shambles in the United States. Many manufacturers or distributors are willing to chase production. I drew the line on Rega when I discovered listings for their tables on the US Walmart Website. The distributor fixed that one quickly. This behavior has contributed greatly to the decline of specialist retailers in the States right along with any product knowledge of what they are selling. It's all become cans of beans. Sad, actually.
I still have my Linn sondek lp12, number 3375, bought in 1974... (Grace G-707 mk2 black tonearm, Grado A2+). Never upgrades..., original turntable with the pré-cirkus bearing !! THE ORIGINAL SOUND OF THE LP12 !! ❤❤ I like it too much...It sound amazing !! 👍👍 (the subplatter has a little green color...)
Good for you and enjoy it that way. The LP12 is a fine turntable but I just wanted to point out that sometimes the upgrade path is not worth following.
I don't need tools. I have a car, and happily take my LP12 to Speakers Corner when it needs service or upgrades. 😊 Keep fingers crossed, that Kay is not retiring anytime soon. 🤞
I am happy that you have a trained dealer to help you out. Sadly, there are very few of us left who know what we are doing and why we are doing it. Keep supporting them!
Individually hand sanding those two surfaces will make the total contact between the two surfaces more uneven and far worse than the effects of a few fingerprints.
There is no markings on the paper we have received. Based upon it's feel, I would say it is in the 1500 to 2000 grit level. Personally, I would go with 2000. That said, I would treat the issue at the same level as if I were polishing plastic headlight covers.
Bingo! Across the pond, I have heard all sorts of horror DIY stories and had to return more than my fair share of tables to spec. I've see clay pressed into the underside of the platter, the subchassis, tonearms wrecked because they torqued the cartridge tight without removing the arm. Oh, yes, quite a bit. It's amazing to me how many people think that they know more than engineering. But, hey, what do I know. I don't know it all but I know enough to respect it.
My thoughts? Don't buy an LP12 unless you live near a GOOD Linn dealer. I have owned one I bought from a former salesman from a store that operated in Sarasota for a brief 4 years. (1978 -1982). I depended on a Linn dealer in Tampa for 25 years for upgrades and service until he lost interest (now out of business) I gave him a ton of business through the years and ended up with a mediocre sounding table; he reduced my $4,000 table to one that sounded no better than a decent $400 table. Luckily, I found a very bright Tech in Eastern Tennessee who restored it to its former glory. I'm not sure I would ever purchase another.
I think that observation stands for most quality turntables, actually. There are plenty of itchy and scratchys out there who get into things without any expertise. Many of the principles of Linn tables actually apply to others, it's just that Linn does it at a higher precision level which must be met. Thank you for taking the time to comment and share your experiences. If you have not already, please subscribe and tell others about my channel. Who knows, maybe they will find something in the work that's useful.
I respectfully disagree. How this idiot in Tampa could have turned a turntable that had a value of about $4,000 into one that sounded like a $400 table in one afternoon is a mystery to me. There is a new Denon Direct Drive (DP3000-NE that sells for $2,500). Perhaps has only about 80% of the nuance of a Linn but if it's plug and play, sounds good for 15 years, I'm down.@@audibleeleganceinc
I owned one of those when they first came out. The biggest mistake I ever made followed by an equally miserable Kenwood rock. For ease of use, yes. Gave one to my elderly parents. No question about that.
Yeah, I thought that too. Then, I realized why that was done have ignored issues with process over purpose. Kinda like trying to get something done with the government around. You can either have it done or you can have all the paperwork filled out. So, you understand the purpose and that's all good. Perhaps you can find a better one.
just too digress I put together a linn lp12 turntable from a variety of parts. I had an Axis turntable that I used the arm from(Basic) bought a used plinth in very good shape, suspension and new springs and grommets, Valhalla Board and new motor. its all assembled and plays, suspension is a work in progress(LINN Bounce)! I think m Valhalla bd needs cap replacement. Anyway my version of an Lp12 is called the Linn Bastard because of all the thrown together parts. thanks for reply will send a pic when I find it! Frank@@audibleeleganceinc
Have fun with it, Frank. It's a hobby and if you are willing to learn, spend a few dollars, and give it your time, that's what it is all about. My points on the LP12 is that you need to understand how it works and follow the rules. It's not for the timid. I guess that means I have a bastard tool as well. @@frankfusco5479
Actually, the Linn platter system is not aluminium. Neither is the Thorens inner and outer platter which, in fact, suffers the same issues. As for dust, well, I will note that but there's more dust and dirt floating around a typical home than what could be generated by this process. Now, if it were filings, yep, you are dead on with that.
Oh, yes, we have heard it both ways. I suppose it might have a lot to do with manufacturing sources too. Thank you for your contribution. I appreciate your contribution.
The customer brought the table into me this way and would not allow me to do anything else. So, I showed what should be done if correct but when the customer says no, that's it. Thank you for your comments and appreciate your effort.
Ah yes, "45"...former Green Beret that always carried my trusty Colt 1911...if you're going to shoot your self, why risk screwing the job up with a 9mm, lol.
True, the 1903 was pretty cool indeed, of coarse I'm also inflicted with the love of hand crafted knives as well along with Colt SAA's, HK"s, Sig's, Walther's, etc...well better go now so I can plan my next bank job!!!@@audibleeleganceinc
Well, the same could be said for a sports car vs a Ford Focus. The point of the video is that if you are going to get under the bonnet of an advanced turntable, you need the right tools to do it right. Such turntables are not for everyone, for sure. I see no issue with that. I had a customer go from an older LP12 to a Rega P3 because he was up in age and wanted something simpler. A valid move.
@@audibleeleganceinc I appreciate that. The right tools are necessary to do any job. In this instance I'd rather have a Lexus than a Morgan or a 1965 Ferrari.
It's a bit of a comedy: the gentleman spends the whole time talking about how bad it is to take a platter and subplatter in bare hands and then tries to save it with his - bare hands 😀
On the Linn LP12 platter, there are surfaces that are lacquered and those which are not. Most of the platter and inner platter is lacquered except for the two surfaces where they meet when assembled. Handling a lacquered surface is fine if you have washed your hands of contaminants. That said, it is still unwise to touch the mating surfaces and finger oil can lead to pitting which is what was being removed.
Some folks treat platters and records as if they were hamburgers. This happens to all brands of turntables like Thorens or the old ARs. The good news is I have never found catsup or mustard on the bottom sides!
I still have my LP12 (same model as this), bought new in 1975. Apart from a few drive belts, I have done nothing to it and it still works and looks like it always did.
And that is fine. It is a faithful friend and that's cool. My point of the video was to caution folks about the trials and tribulations about attempted upgrades.
@@audibleeleganceinc I think the main thing is that I rarely move it and always treat it gently. Same with the original SME 3009 arm I fitted to it when I bought it.
I have mine new since 1979. It has got thru 3 belts. Don't bother fiddling with old Linns. Repairs will introduce u to Linn prices
@@naradaian Likewise , I bought my Gyrodec brand new in the late 90s , and transplanted my SME Series III over from my Transcriptor Hydraulic Reference . I have subsequently upgraded to a Rega RB700 arm and bought the Gyropower QC power supply , which was an expensive extra when the deck was new ( so I waited to do it and used the power supply that came with the deck to begin with ) .
Other than that , I have replaced the drive belt two or three times , and have replaced my Audio Technica AT-OC9 a couple of times when I felt the stylus was due for replacement ( roughly every 10 years ; I don't keep track of the hours , but my record collection is worth more than my equipment so a new cartridge every so often is a good investment , just as it was last year having my Quad Electrostatic loudspeakers rebuilt because one of them started making strange noises ) .
As for the turntable ; it has been dismantled and put carefully away in its original box three times when I have moved house , then carefully set back up in its new location with fresh oil put in the bearing at that time ( I use 3-in-one light machine oil ) only because it seemed prudent to do so .
Once set up , the turntable is just used and enjoyed . There are some who fiddle and fidget with hi-fi equipment , but once it is properly set up , the best place to be is just to use it and enjoy your music .
I am old enough to remember when the LP12 first appeared during a crazy time of hi-fi snobbery in the UK and elsewhere. Some dealers refused to sell various separates unless one was going to pair them with what said MUST BE.
Although I owned an LP12 and other Linn products off and on I was never sucked into the reverence cult which Linn encouraged, even if management did not originate it. Besides, the LP12 was actually copied from another manufacturer but I did and still do concede that they were mostly quite well put together and had good platters.
The suspension mechanism was over complicated for what it was and the less expensive Thorens mechanism was generally superior and not subject to the misalignment shown here because there were wedges to use as a simple means of protecting it during transport. Linn could have done a lot more to avoid problems but the rigidity of earlier case work did not allow for a Thorens solution. Linn woodwork was also prone to warping over a few years, even in the temperate climate of the UK and this might have been down to humidity. Thorens tended to use semi-wood and when Rega came into being the design principles obviated the issues shown here.
For me (apart from silly names and silly prices) the Linn was let down by puny motors and "dirty" power feed which could affect speed and resonance the same as with any belt drive, although Linn made improvements -- again with silly names.
During occasional work with BBC classical musical programmes, I saw few Linn turntables in use, if any. Lenco turntables with variable speed and EMT customized decks were most used and even Garrards for some records but Technics SP and SL 10s changed BBC vinyl usage profoundly as these expensive precision direct drive turntables were robust, silent, adjustable and saved a lot in maintenance costs.
The belt vs direct drive argument will persist and is as boring now as it was 40 years ago.
Thank you for your robust comments and I find them fair from a user's point of view. In fact, the Thorens suspension, which predated the Linn, used many of the same parts as Linn adopted right down to the springs and grommets. I know, I have parted enough Thorens out. What Linn did was to make, in a sense, a more robust Thorens. Where Linn took it further was the intense training on how to get the best out of a Linn whereas Thorens were sold as a turnkey product with little care by the dealers, at least here in the States.
The direct drive tables were ideal for radio as with the use of a cartridge like Stanton, one could back-cue and have a start up time in a quarter of a revolution. Ergo, no dead air time or, at least greatly minimized. Keep in mind that for many years, contrary to popular belief, many commercial radio stations used carts (cartridges, i.e. 8 track or similiar.)
As for their other products, well, I will leave you with a funny. What Hi-Fi held annual awards for best products and, well, one for the worst product. After the falling out between Linn and Naim, LInn created a tuner called the Kremlin. Quite expensive. It was awarded the Worst Product of the Year. Obviously, no one from Linn was in attendance when the award was given. However, when announced, Julian Vereker of Naim stood up and said "On behalf of my friend Ivor, I will accept the award" The room howled in laughter.
Years later when Julian died, however, Ivor wrote a most beautiful eulogy about Mr. Verreker. It was classic all the way. Covered two pages in a magazine, as I recall.
As for the "cult", well, I was never much part of that but for many, discovering that one could understand musical differences in musical terms was an awakening. In that sense, they became apostles that felt that their mission was to address a great many misconceptions about hi-fi and, in many ways, they were correct. The failing became that they could not accept that others were also addressing misconceptions albeit in different ways. At the dealer level, here in the states, cults are less common but are often based around a couple of magazines as if they speak the gospel. Sadly, many solid principles of hi-fi have been lost in the current time and market as can be seen with $69 turntables from Amazon. Nuff said.
Oh, and yes I have had a few comments from the cult that I actually had to mute. If one is not going to contribute and move the conversation forward, but, rather merely bicker, then save it for someone else. I don't have much patience for that. I have grown very tired of those who can only criticize and destroy while failing to build. We have a serious problem with that in the States.
Yep , I'm of a similar age ( now 66 ) and along with my schoolfriends got the hi-fi bug in my early to mid teens .
After selling my train set , I started out with a Pioneer PL12D turntable , Shure M75EDII cartridge , Sony amplifier and a pair of Hitachi Speakers , which were soon upgraded to a pair of KEFKIT 3s . Around this time , while still 15 or 16 , I got a Saturday job in a hi-fi shop - getting paid , albeit not much , for playing with all the kit I lusted over .
While the shop did sell a lot of jap stuff , including Pioneer , Sony , Technics , Yamaha and others , we also had a lot of British kit , and from the basic end we had the inexpensive Connosseur turntables , there was the BD12 and i can't remember the other one , which came as kits , then Garrard , Lenco , Dual , before we got to Thorens and Linn . I can still remember when an LP 12 retailed for £82 ( yes eighty two pounds ) . Alongside Linn , being based here in Scotland , we also had the other home grown decks very similar to the LP12 , including the Fons CQ30 , Systemdeck , STD ( Strathclyde Transducer Developments , which I think was the one that got into a legal dispute with Linn over whichever one of them had ripped off the design from the other ) ... we also stocked the AR turntable , which was very good value for money , and we started selling Transcriptors , just about the time they were sold to Michell Engineering .
On the electronics side , we sold Quad , Sugden , Radford , A&R Cambridge ( who became ARCAM ) , Rogers , Lecson , then Meridian ( which also came from Boothroyd Stuart ) , oh and NAIM as well ; for loudspeakers there were far too many British loudspeakers to name , but I liked KEF , B&W , IMF , Monitor Audio , Celef , Rogers and of course Quad when they only made the original ESLs . We sold a lot of cassette decks , mainly from the japanese brands , the best of which were Nakamichi , although we did sell NEAL decks which were very good , plus open reel machines from the likes of Sony , Teac , Ferrograph and Revox .
I'm sorry to say we also sold Bang and Olufsen , which appealed to certain people .
All of this was before the whole 'musicality' debate was kicked off by Russ Andrews in Edinburgh , in fact being based in Central Scotland , I got to know most of the people in the industry , both locally , and nationally , thanks to going to most of the trade shows as a member of staff .
I'd had my PL12D for about 18 months when a colleague who was hard up needed to sell his Transcriptor Hydraulic Reference turntable , so I grabbed it for a bargain price , and sold my PL12D to a colleague . I was delighted with it , although I changed the unipivot arm for an SME Series 3 when it came out . Kept that turntable for a good many years then upgraded to the Gyrodec , but not before I'd had an LP12 home for a few weeks ; I'd never been trained to set it up - but I had had the process described to me - however it was the shop demo model which had apparently been set up , so to transport it home I simply removed the main platter and put a couple of pieces of foam under the sub platter to avoid damage while I drove home very carefully with it on the back seat . TBH , I wasn't all that impressed with the sound , so I bought the Gyrodec instead , and it came with comprehensive instructions how to balance and set up the suspension . I bought the Gyro with the SME plate and put my Series 3 onto it initially , then put the old unipivot back onto the Hydraulic Ref before giving it away to a friend for nothing - these now command stupid prices , but that was the dawn of the CD era and turntables were worth nothing .
I still have the gyro , now with a Rega RB700 and an AT-OC9 , I've changed the belt a few times over the years , moved house a couple of times with it always stripped down and put back in the original box . It is again in my living room , sounding good and giving a lot of pleasure .
As for other items , I got to like Quad hi-fi and had a 33/405 before getting into AV and surround sound , but then I tired of that and went back to my roots , so I again have a nice Quad system with the 77pre , 77CD , 77FM and 707 power amp , into the ESL 63 loudspeakers , and I just took those down to Huntingdon last year for a full rebuild with all new panels back to as new . I'd previously had KEFs , B&Ws and IMF transmission lines , all of which were great , apart from the lady of the house said the TLS80s on their stands were too big ! I now won't buy another set of loudspeakers because the ESL 63s just have a way of filling a room with music , in a way that no other loudspeakers can , and without drawing any attention to themselves .
Since I do a bit of recording , and work in live sound , photography and video production ; I also used to do a lot with tape and had five Revoxes at one point , now just two , as well as a Uher 4200 and a few cassette decks . These days I still have two Nakamichi 700s and plan to restore one of them , as well as a Technics RS279 !
I'm not yet retired , but when I do , I will have plenty of audio restoration projects to keep me busy .
@@audibleeleganceinc Further to 'the Cult' , is it not a bit similar to the one that has grown up around Apple products ( and I admit to being an Apple user myself ) .
@@derekheeps8012 So, if a mechanic uses the right tools, that's a cult too? Wow, there are more cults than I imagined or you are particularly good at "seeing them." Do you sleep well at night?
Having used Apple in the early days was not a cult. It was that the machines were superior in both productivity and security. Not until System 10 came along was the security of the Apple operating system a simple consideration. That's no longer true and I use Windows quite a bit today.
I think it would be a good idea to plug the bearing and cover the bearing spindle to protect it from swarfe / dust contamination from the sanding procedure. It's also, I believe, not a good idea to have black oil in conjunction with the early white nylon topped bearing as it causes swelling and partial seizure. Hope this helps!
Oh, I think you are overstating the case. I was 8 to 10 inches back from the rear of the deck and not over the bearing well. Cameras can be a bit funny in perspective. Good suggestion, and noted. As for the oil, whatever the customer or prior owner did before he brought it in is exactly the way it left. We never charged this bearing well. There were a lot of things this table needed but all was declined. This is quite common when someone buys a used table and then brings it to us. I could tell lots of stories about what we have found tacked on the underside of platters, plinths, you name it.
You may well be right but better safe than sorry. As the old proverb says "the Devil is in the detail". Thanks for your reply and have a great day
Early Linns lacked corner wedges so the plinths became distorted over time. When my 1983 Linn was updated to Linn Cirkus spec in the 1990s the plinth was the first to go. In fact, there's very little left of the original. Great video - I'm surprised that you can get mail order Linns in the USA. That's impossible in the UK - same for Rega Planar 3s and above.
Thank you for your excellent comments, particularly about the original Linn LP12 base (plinth).
As for the means of product distribution, yes, indeed, it is a complete shambles in the United States. Many manufacturers or distributors are willing to chase production. I drew the line on Rega when I discovered listings for their tables on the US Walmart Website. The distributor fixed that one quickly. This behavior has contributed greatly to the decline of specialist retailers in the States right along with any product knowledge of what they are selling. It's all become cans of beans. Sad, actually.
I still have my Linn sondek lp12, number 3375, bought in 1974... (Grace G-707 mk2 black tonearm, Grado A2+).
Never upgrades..., original turntable with the pré-cirkus bearing !!
THE ORIGINAL SOUND OF THE LP12 !! ❤❤
I like it too much...It sound amazing !! 👍👍
(the subplatter has a little green color...)
Good for you and enjoy it that way. The LP12 is a fine turntable but I just wanted to point out that sometimes the upgrade path is not worth following.
Agree with you...
Thanks !!
I don't need tools.
I have a car, and happily take my LP12 to Speakers Corner when it needs service or upgrades. 😊
Keep fingers crossed, that Kay is not retiring anytime soon. 🤞
I am happy that you have a trained dealer to help you out. Sadly, there are very few of us left who know what we are doing and why we are doing it. Keep supporting them!
would a coat of wax do as well as laquer?
Once lacquered, I don't have any idea what a wax would do.
could the "height-issue" be due to the springs?
Not likely
Aren't you sanding away the clear lacquer finish sprayed on the platter?
No, the mating surfaces between the inner platter and the outer platter are not coated. I learned that at the factory.
good job
Thank you for taking the time to comment. I appreciate the effort.
Individually hand sanding those two surfaces will make the total contact between the two surfaces more uneven and far worse than the effects of a few fingerprints.
In this case there was pitting. So, I disagree.
PBR and Linn a excellent duo. Actually occasionally I combine them myself...😊
Indeed!
What grit sandpaper did you use ?
There is no markings on the paper we have received. Based upon it's feel, I would say it is in the 1500 to 2000 grit level. Personally, I would go with 2000. That said, I would treat the issue at the same level as if I were polishing plastic headlight covers.
Another excellent Linn dealer is Accent on Music in New York. The owners care and have decades of Linn experience
@@NateEll excellent to know as I just found out that another guru has hung up his cartridges.
in scotland we have David Ewing ...ex RR engineer to do this work :) a REAL engineer , and we have all the tools just like any other linn dealer
Bingo! Across the pond, I have heard all sorts of horror DIY stories and had to return more than my fair share of tables to spec. I've see clay pressed into the underside of the platter, the subchassis, tonearms wrecked because they torqued the cartridge tight without removing the arm. Oh, yes, quite a bit. It's amazing to me how many people think that they know more than engineering. But, hey, what do I know. I don't know it all but I know enough to respect it.
My thoughts? Don't buy an LP12 unless you live near a GOOD Linn dealer. I have owned one I bought from a former salesman from a store that operated in Sarasota for a brief 4 years. (1978 -1982). I depended on a Linn dealer in Tampa for 25 years for upgrades and service until he lost interest (now out of business) I gave him a ton of business through the years and ended up with a mediocre sounding table; he reduced my $4,000 table to one that sounded no better than a decent $400 table. Luckily, I found a very bright Tech in Eastern Tennessee who restored it to its former glory. I'm not sure I would ever purchase another.
I think that observation stands for most quality turntables, actually. There are plenty of itchy and scratchys out there who get into things without any expertise. Many of the principles of Linn tables actually apply to others, it's just that Linn does it at a higher precision level which must be met. Thank you for taking the time to comment and share your experiences. If you have not already, please subscribe and tell others about my channel. Who knows, maybe they will find something in the work that's useful.
I respectfully disagree. How this idiot in Tampa could have turned a turntable that had a value of about $4,000 into one that sounded like a $400 table in one afternoon is a mystery to me. There is a new Denon Direct Drive (DP3000-NE that sells for $2,500). Perhaps has only about 80% of the nuance of a Linn but if it's plug and play, sounds good for 15 years, I'm down.@@audibleeleganceinc
And that folks, is why God gave us Technics!
I owned one of those when they first came out. The biggest mistake I ever made followed by an equally miserable Kenwood rock. For ease of use, yes. Gave one to my elderly parents. No question about that.
I owned a Technics ~50 yrs ago. There might be many reasons to travel back in time to those days, but the Technics isn't any of them 🤔
@@jimclark7378 Yeah they've improved quite a bit over 50 years.
That's a real precision looking tool, IE globs of epoxy!!
Yeah, I thought that too. Then, I realized why that was done have ignored issues with process over purpose. Kinda like trying to get something done with the government around. You can either have it done or you can have all the paperwork filled out. So, you understand the purpose and that's all good. Perhaps you can find a better one.
just too digress I put together a linn lp12 turntable from a variety of parts. I had an Axis turntable that I used the arm from(Basic) bought a used plinth in very good shape, suspension and new springs and grommets, Valhalla Board and new motor. its all assembled and plays, suspension is a work in progress(LINN Bounce)! I think m Valhalla bd needs cap replacement. Anyway my version of an Lp12 is called the Linn Bastard because of all the thrown together parts. thanks for reply will send a pic when I find it! Frank@@audibleeleganceinc
Have fun with it, Frank. It's a hobby and if you are willing to learn, spend a few dollars, and give it your time, that's what it is all about. My points on the LP12 is that you need to understand how it works and follow the rules. It's not for the timid. I guess that means I have a bastard tool as well. @@frankfusco5479
I agree!!!@@audibleeleganceinc
I'd be covering the turntable while it's in your workshop and you're generating aluminium and abrasive dust from the sanding process. Just sayin'
Actually, the Linn platter system is not aluminium. Neither is the Thorens inner and outer platter which, in fact, suffers the same issues.
As for dust, well, I will note that but there's more dust and dirt floating around a typical home than what could be generated by this process. Now, if it were filings, yep, you are dead on with that.
smooth side in; more friction
Oh, yes, we have heard it both ways. I suppose it might have a lot to do with manufacturing sources too. Thank you for your contribution. I appreciate your contribution.
These old bolts do not go with modern springs hence the suspension issue. You dont have enough adjustment in the left hangar to correct it.
The customer brought the table into me this way and would not allow me to do anything else. So, I showed what should be done if correct but when the customer says no, that's it. Thank you for your comments and appreciate your effort.
Ah yes, "45"...former Green Beret that always carried my trusty Colt 1911...if you're going to shoot your self, why risk screwing the job up with a 9mm, lol.
And I made the serious error of giving up my 1903. What a beautiful design and as balanced as any finely crafted knife or sword. Alas....
True, the 1903 was pretty cool indeed, of coarse I'm also inflicted with the love of hand crafted knives as well along with Colt SAA's, HK"s, Sig's, Walther's, etc...well better go now so I can plan my next bank job!!!@@audibleeleganceinc
And nitrile gloves if you are that fussy
Which I am not.
What a fiddly bit of gear. I'll take a modern turntable or a vintage Denon over this thing.
Well, the same could be said for a sports car vs a Ford Focus. The point of the video is that if you are going to get under the bonnet of an advanced turntable, you need the right tools to do it right.
Such turntables are not for everyone, for sure. I see no issue with that. I had a customer go from an older LP12 to a Rega P3 because he was up in age and wanted something simpler. A valid move.
@@audibleeleganceinc I appreciate that. The right tools are necessary to do any job. In this instance I'd rather have a Lexus than a Morgan or a 1965 Ferrari.
@@Darrylizer1 Exactly. Personal preferences have value. That's why we have choices!
you need a good screwdriver
That too for sure! Actually several different ones.
It's a bit of a comedy: the gentleman spends the whole time talking about how bad it is to take a platter and subplatter in bare hands and then tries to save it with his - bare hands 😀
On the Linn LP12 platter, there are surfaces that are lacquered and those which are not. Most of the platter and inner platter is lacquered except for the two surfaces where they meet when assembled. Handling a lacquered surface is fine if you have washed your hands of contaminants. That said, it is still unwise to touch the mating surfaces and finger oil can lead to pitting which is what was being removed.
never appreciated the precision. ( I have a pro-ject)
That's ok. If you are happy, then it's met your needs.
Gee- having to deal with finger prints on the underside of a platter🫤
Some folks treat platters and records as if they were hamburgers. This happens to all brands of turntables like Thorens or the old ARs.
The good news is I have never found catsup or mustard on the bottom sides!